broadcasting way too early from three
separate wi-fi connections it's pt
breakfast club with tony maritato dave
kittle and jimmy mckay all right we are
live and jimmy is on location so jimmy
tell us where you are and what you
were doing
I'm, you know,
we're playing some golf today.
It's what you do in the Northeast in
the summer.
We got a small window of good weather.
So APTA,
a lot of these state chapters do it.
APTA Connecticut is having a tournament,
a little fundraiser for their legislative
efforts.
And they inflated me out to gently heckle
is what I'm going to do.
I'm not playing today.
I'm just going to roam the course and
sort of gently heckle the seventy five or
so golfers they got out here on the
course today.
The course is called Lyman Orchard.
And you're going to love the marketing
gimmick.
Yeah.
So it's built for the same family.
I don't know the backstory, but.
It's built next to an apple orchard.
So if you play a round of golf,
you walk out with a free apple pie.
Oh, very nice.
If that just it doesn't make any sense.
There's no connection,
but there is a connection with the course.
So now there's a story.
And who doesn't want a free apple pie?
It's a tiny little single serving apple
pies.
I found out about it when I was
coming to the course,
when I was coming to the tournament.
I mentioned it to a buddy who does
not live in the state of Connecticut.
And I said,
I'm going to this tournament and they
serve apples.
He goes, lime and orchards?
Those pies are fantastic.
So there's the thing.
This is a buddy who's played hundreds of
golf courses.
So I don't know.
Maybe if you come in and you get
treatment,
you walk out with an apple pie from
your PT clinic.
I'm not saying that's the connection,
but I'm saying there needs to be something
there.
I love it.
That's awesome.
I thought you were going to say you
get like a free bushel of apples,
but apple pie is a thousand times better.
Hey, listen,
if you come out on the driving range
and you get a bucket of balls,
you buy five buckets of balls,
you get a bucket of apples on the
way out.
That's how it works.
Now, I know you've asked me,
but I forget.
Are you a golfer?
Can you play?
I can play.
I'm not bad.
I don't play often and it shows.
Let's put it that way.
You know my brain and my attention span.
If golf were like eleven and a half
holes, I'd play more often.
Every single person says that.
Nobody's ever built an eleven or twelve
hole golf course.
As soon as we hit the turn,
I'm so excited because I'm like,
grab a hot dog, get a beer,
grab a water at the nine hole turn.
I'm like, this is great.
And then I turn, I'm like,
we got to do the same number of
holes again.
But you got some people like my buddy
who'll play thirty six holes and never
think twice.
I can't do it.
But I play twelve holes.
before i get dave here um so yes
yes no sunday this sunday this sunday
marks like the family palooza every summer
so the first event in this family palooza
and for the record people who don't know
my wife comes from a huge family she's
one of fourteen siblings i'm an only child
on my side so every july
A bunch of out of towners come in.
And basically,
every family sponsors an event.
So Sunday was a big family golf scramble.
We had twenty five, thirty people.
We broke up into teams of four.
I, you know,
I'm the lowest on my foursome,
but they divide up all the teams.
This is like a highly organized,
sophisticated operation.
So you get an A player, B player,
C player, D player.
I'm the D player.
But we had an amazing time.
It was so much fun.
But every single person was like,
twelve holes is the perfect amount.
Leave them wanting more.
Today, they're canoeing and kayaking.
Yesterday was a huge pickleball day.
all day event at the Pickleball Courts in
Middletown.
I think tomorrow is Kings Island,
which is like a huge amusement park.
We've got the fishing tournament on
Friday.
We've got the Fourth of July at one
of the brother in law's houses.
Every single day is organized on a rainy
day.
We throw in bowling.
It is the most incredible family like week
and a half ever.
My kids have been doing it their whole
life.
So Dave, jump into the conversation.
Jimmy is on the golf course in Connecticut
with APTA right now.
Yeah,
I know you mentioned the big Meritato
extravaganza.
This is the one where there's like a
family race, right?
And you got family members running.
Yeah.
We'll do the five K on fourth of
July morning.
Most of the adults are running like five
and a half to seven minute miles.
Not me, but I will be out there.
I'll be supporting.
So.
And now this,
this is family only or married in family,
but this, this is, there's no friends.
It's just family.
No friends, no girlfriends, family,
like in-laws and outlaws.
All right, because I was going to ask,
like,
how many years do we need to do
this show until Jimmy and I get an
invite?
But it sounds like we're not married.
We have to marry a customer.
That's right.
You have not made the list.
Got to marry in, man.
Gee, it's the only way.
Every event's like forty, fifty people.
There's just not room.
I understand.
All good.
All right, so Jimmy,
since you are APTA sponsored this morning,
what are some of the big topics?
And I want to talk about a couple
because I've been seeing on social media,
before we started the show,
we were talking about loans.
APTA is trying to get physical therapists
added as a profession to increase loan
limits.
Not a huge increase.
I've been seeing all over TikTok
therapists,
and I want you guys to answer this
question.
Is becoming a physical therapist worth it?
Separate from the loan issue,
whether APTA gets physical therapy added
to the professional status and increase
the limit on federal loan,
which I'm not a proponent of.
The question is, Jimmy, first,
is it worth becoming a physical therapist,
you know, going into school today,
coming out in two thousand eight,
two thousand nine?
uh i'm gonna i'm gonna drop a a
fully pt answer it depends if you
understand what you're going into um it's
fantastic for some people which is which
is why the comment section of many of
these discussions you have people pat
talking just absolutely past each other
one person's talking on logic and they're
right and the other person is talking on
emotion and they're
thing that gets you out of bed in
the mornings,
you can absolutely make a living and be
thrilled by it.
If you like doing it,
and if this is the business you want
to be in, right?
I mean,
I still think we should go back and
take a look at all of our parting
shots.
I'm pretty sure I just recycled the same
three, but know what business you're in.
If you love this,
if this is something you'd love to do,
it's a great investment.
If you're looking at it that you're going
to write a check,
go to school for three years,
and then come out and sit on a
conveyor belt and just be brought forward
and just progress and progress and make
more and more money without having to do
anything
more you will be greatly disappointed so
is it worth it it depends dave all
right i will give you one side of
the fence yes it is worth it i
was just interviewing and speaking with
one of my staff physical therapists the
new the newest one that's uh about a
month in and he happened to go to
toro university or toro college here in
brooklyn and it was basically like
Like a third or two thirds cheaper.
So like his student loan repayments were,
you know, two thirds less every month.
So the answer is yes,
because there's still options around.
There's still options out there where you
could be in state.
You could stay local.
You don't have to run up the student
loan debt.
And then once you're in the profession,
it's something that a lot of not everyone,
but a lot of staff physical therapists
love it.
They like it.
They love it.
They enjoy it.
They look forward to going to work.
They're helping people.
They're making an impact.
Also,
I've talked on the show that you then,
you then learn a whole bunch of
information that you can help for
yourself.
You can help your family members,
whether it's Tony triaging a family
member, like, Hey, don't worry.
It's not that big of a deal, whatever.
Uh,
just giving people certainty and
confidence about their movement.
And there,
there's so much of the complaints online
about capped,
uh, capped salaries, capped hourly rates,
all that.
And that's like, there is truth to it.
I don't want to dismay.
Um, I don't want to disregard it,
but there's also practice owners that are
making really good money and obviously
here in New York city too,
like working for me, but also,
also my competitors, my, my buddies, we,
we sit down and I mean, there there's,
there's practice owners taking home,
you know,
after after taxes, right?
So like, like, obviously,
you have to build a team.
And that takes a while.
And that takes a lot of effort.
And that's not for everyone even to go
into physical therapy.
But there's so many different avenues that
you where you can make an impact.
You can make good money.
You have to find it, though.
That's the thing.
It's like you have to you have to
be proactive.
I agree with Jimmy.
Like if you just want to sit on
a conveyor belt and you just think all
the stuff is going to be brought to
you,
you're going to be in for a rude
awakening.
But I think that's that's the same as
anything else.
Like if you're going to go into school
to be an accountant,
like there's a ton of accountants that
leave the world of accountancy.
There's a there's lawyers that there's
lawyers that leave law because they hate
it.
They get burned out, whatever.
Um, you know,
you can go to work for Kirkland and
Ellis and your first year or two out
of school,
you're going to make two hundred and
thirty grand or something per year.
But they're going to over they're going to
overdrive you to the point that
they don't they're just you know using you
for billable hours and you're going to
work evenings and weekends and all that
and you thought it was great that you
thought the number was great just like my
buddy my buddy's coming out of school in
from my university pharmacy and they're
like oh man we could make you know
we got to sign this ten-year contract and
we can make a hundred and ten grand
out of school and guess what none of
them are working for cvs walgreens raid
aid anymore
They're working in compound pharmacies or
hospitals or specialty places.
So every single degree or profession will
have the people that come online and say,
this is the worst thing ever.
And then a lot of the people are
so busy making an impact and succeeding
that they're not sharing the positives
because they're
They are growing a team.
They're doing all this other stuff.
They're expanding what they're doing.
I mean, I wish there were more.
I wish there were more people online that
I know personally where I've either seen
their bank accounts, I've seen their P&Ls,
I've seen what they're doing,
I've seen the behind the scenes of what
they're doing and creating...
a ton of momentum in the profession,
even if it's self pay.
So anyway, that's my side of the fence,
which is, yes, it's still worth it.
But there is the downside in every single
profession or choice doesn't matter what
you choose plumbing, HVAC,
legal accountancy, whatever it is.
Yeah.
You can make a million dollars as an
HVAC person.
Do you like crawling in attics?
Like,
do you enjoy troubleshooting mechanical
things?
Is that a thing that your brain does?
Because if it's not, every day will suck.
But you have a lot of money.
Well,
not if your business doesn't go sideways
or you get fired.
So none of this is guaranteed.
Yeah, and I'm in the same camp.
It depends on what you do with the
degree.
It depends on what you do with the
letters after your name.
It's one of those deals where we need
to take accountability for the decisions
we make.
I can go spend a ton of money
on something that sits in my closet,
or I can use whatever the tool is
that I just bought.
I'm trying to pull it up,
but I can't get to it.
There was a Instagram channel where a guy
created a personal training studio.
I shared it on my personal profile,
I think on Facebook.
It was amazing.
Like this guy had all this comic book
stuff.
Now I'm not a comic guy,
but it was Marvel characters and like
Spider-Man dumbbells and everything was
wrapped with comic book stuff.
There are so many different cool things
out there.
that if you want to be a physical
therapist in two thousand twenty eight,
but act like it's two thousand eight,
you're never going to succeed.
You can't be a twenty year, you know,
a therapist twenty years ago.
You have to be a therapist today.
You have to include media.
You have to include creativity.
You have to be willing to step out
of the conventional model of third party
reimbursement if you want to do something
better than the standard of care.
So if you
which many of the people I knew back
in the day were like,
I can always get a job.
Yes, this is true.
Steady salary.
Nobody gets fired unless you're like,
you know,
doing horrible things to your patients.
Yeah, like that part exists,
but that's also the bottom ten,
fifteen percent.
You're going to make the least amount of
money.
You're going to be expected to do the
most amount of work.
if you want to take the profession and
the credential and move to six figure
salaries you have to do something modern
something unique something new with it so
it can be worth it hundred percent and
i don't care if the government wants to
loan you money uh up to two hundred
thousand or whatever the professional
limit is it doesn't matter
Because you're talking about something
that potentially is going to generate six
figures, you know, low six figures a year.
And then, of course, like Dave said,
if you want to step out of the
patient care clinical role and step into
the business side of it,
there's no limit to what you can make.
You know,
so it just depends on what you do
with the asset you're purchasing.
But make no mistake,
you're purchasing an asset.
I bought a license.
I bought the license to bill insurance.
That's not necessarily as valuable as it
used to be,
but then I also got the information and
the education along with the license.
Correct.
Yeah,
people have a difficult time separating it
because I think some people bought a
degree years ago,
but they
I don't want to hear that.
You bought a story.
The story was told by a recruiter that
you will do this.
Your day will look like this.
Your salary will look like this and your
life will look like this.
And they got there and they're like,
but now I want something different.
And that's difficult to hear.
And that's difficult to see.
Yeah.
It's all Marvel themed.
This guy's whole things.
He's got dumbbells with Captain America
logos on them.
He's got a, you know, a Spider-Man.
Oh, he's got three.
He's got a cold tub, a hot tub.
But this is what this guy loves.
Is this a gym?
Yeah,
it's like a personal training studio from
what I understood.
He's got all the equipment,
the lifting platforms, the dumbbells,
the passive modalities.
I don't think he's a physical therapist.
I think it's just a fitness center.
But it's cool.
I mean, this is something unique.
If he had just made this like,
you know, Spider-Man colors,
it would have been neat.
This guy shows that you have to sort
of go all in.
Now, he like, you know,
we mentioned earlier the golf course that
I'm at.
If you play around a golf,
you get a free you get a free
apple pie.
Doesn't make any sense.
Like the market doesn't make any sense.
But they're connected to an orchard.
So the family probably had a lot of
land and was like,
we're going to take some of it and
turn it into a golf course.
Let's connect these two things.
And then a buddy from two states away
still knows it.
So that guy is going – he is,
as Seth Godin would say, remarkable.
There's a lot of gyms out there with
a lot of heavy stuff.
I've been in a bunch.
I don't know how many I make a
remark about.
But the golf course that gives away apple
pies doesn't make any sense.
And once you taste them, you're like, oh,
my God, these are great,
worthy of making a remark about.
Healthcare loves to be mayonnaise, though,
right?
I mean, are there other people doing,
you know, things?
I mean, like, you know,
like people like Josh Funk and Rehab to
Perform go out of their way to not
just do something remarkable,
but to show the remarkability over and
over again.
In the last few weeks,
Dave has been on the street in New
York City with people with nice shirts
talking about outcome.
But I'm picking up on that.
Like,
you guys are on the Upper East Side.
I can tell why.
I don't know.
It looks like Sex and the City backdrop.
But that's what you're showing.
Don't tell me you're concierge this.
Don't tell me.
Show me.
Show me and I'll believe you.
Tell me and maybe.
Dave,
how's the new video stuff going for you?
Good.
My new therapist, Ethan,
had played some baseball in college and
some, you know, after college type,
you know, men's league stuff.
So he's been pushing me to have a
catch in Central Park.
And I'm like, dude,
like we're busy and we're onboarding you
and you still got stuff to learn.
And we are so ripped, you know,
but I was also like, actually,
you know what?
Like this is a good time because soon
you're going to be so busy that like
you can't, you know, during the day.
So we went out and had a catch
in central park last week.
I brought my new,
I don't have it here.
I brought my new extender tripod.
That's like six feet tall.
I put my phone on it.
Like I put my phone on it,
like right, like right here.
we each have a lapel mic and he's
ninety feet away.
We're having a catch.
And I'm like talking to the camera.
But you can obviously hear both of us
really well.
So we're having a catch.
And I'm just talking to him like, hey,
how do you think it's possible to live
a comfortable life as a staff physical
therapist in New York City?
And he's like, oh, well,
it depends on where you live and it
depends on how much student loans and how
much you spend in general.
So we're talking about city stuff.
We're talking about
city restaurants, um,
not just clinical stuff.
I did it also.
We're doing more video inside the clinic,
inside like the treatment room and on the
table.
And he'll,
he'll like anonymously tell me about like
one of his new evals and like, Oh,
I thought it was this,
but it was really this.
And this guy came in with leg pain,
but, and he was convinced it was,
you know, hamstring tendinopathy,
but really it was, uh,
it was actually like a positive slump
test.
And it was actually like a peripheral
nerve or a,
or herniated disc, right?
So we just talk about like anonymous case
studies like that.
And also on the sidewalk, like you said.
So we're just mixing everything in and I'm
just trying to record as much as possible.
We're getting patients,
his patients to consent to video during
their treatment, which like that,
I feel like that is almost like the
holy grail of social media.
Like because-
yeah i mean obviously some people don't
want it and our our ideal client doesn't
want video typically done in their home
for house calls but if in the clinic
it's like you know there's like other
people around or whatever and you know
some people are okay with it
So then I got,
I got Ethan with the lapel mic soon.
I'm going to have,
I want to have the patient also with
the other lapel mic with their consent.
And then that way we can hear them
kind of go back and forth.
And Ethan does a great job with like
explaining like the drill or the exercise.
And then like the patient starts it and
then perform it.
So we're just,
we're just doing all the different types
of content.
Jimmy,
if you need to jump off or whatever,
do what you need to do.
Just rubbing elbows.
Eric Fulmar,
former APTA Massachusetts president,
coming over to the dark side in
Connecticut.
I think the more that you show,
you know what, Dave?
If you couldn't get one patient to consent
to be on camera,
then I think you mix what Will Boyd
does,
which is he doesn't tell anybody's name
that he's working with.
He says,
I'm working with a construction company
doing three million a year.
That becomes your character.
Do you know what I mean?
Like,
wouldn't it be great if every time Dave
steps out like a really great, like, like,
you know, entryway of a great building.
Hey, just got done treating some,
you know,
fifty three year old guy was bummed.
He couldn't get back on the links,
but now he's driving at two fifty.
And that's great.
You never have to show them.
Just show them where they live.
You can assume what that guy looks like.
You don't need his permission.
Make some of them up.
right I mean think of some patients you
had thirty years ago but I tell you
what I think you have the ideal scenario
right now like if my wife would let
me get her on camera I would be
the therapist or vice versa she won't do
it you are willing to be the patient
you're you're holding the camera you're
the patient and
Your therapist is doing the explanation.
You don't even need to have other actual
patients.
You fit the demographic.
I don't think you're that far from who
the ideal client is.
I think just those videos which you've
done before
I think those would perform really well.
And I would experiment with different ways
to do that.
Either the phone on the selfie stick where
it's out in front of you.
You're close to the camera.
The therapist is behind you.
You're both mic'd up and kind of talking
about what he's doing.
I think you've done it with your wife
maybe, but that is good enough.
Like that is a great scenario for you
to keep making those videos and they're
easy to make.
Right on.
All right, so we're going back.
I'm going to go play some golf.
What's that?
I got to jump off and go play
some golf.
We're going to tee off.
But I would say my parting shot would
be it's worth it.
Know what business you're in.
Understand what business you're in.
And then it's worth it to you or
not to you.
But it can't be an everybody question.
All right, guys, we'll talk to you soon.
Enjoy.
All right, so before you jumped on,
we were talking about some APTA stuff and
just general professional topics.
There is a therapist who I've interacted
with a little bit on TikTok.
I can't get his name right now,
but we were talking about AI coming into
patient care.
Obviously,
there are all the efficiencies on
documentation and billing and insurance
verification, stuff like that.
My thing, and I'm curious,
you as a young dad,
as a new young dad,
I said AI needs to be a bigger
part of the PT curriculum.
They should be developing AI tools to help
DPT candidates, DPT students learn better,
learn faster,
improve the scope of information.
And thankfully,
the person that I was talking to agreed.
Now, he said within academics,
there's a lot of professors who are
completely against AI.
There are professors who are proponents of
AI.
But I just couldn't imagine being a PT
student today,
not having my own personal AI chat,
who I could do case studies with,
I could do twenty questions with,
practice evals with,
clinical scenarios with.
What are your thoughts?
Because obviously your son's going to grow
up in an AI world.
What are you guys seeing with that?
Well, even before he was born,
my wife and I,
we were already
very focused and on the same page of
minimizing any screen time.
So,
The only thing he does on a screen
is at the end of speaking to a
family member on FaceTime video calls is
he wants to come and he wants to
press the X to hang it up.
That is literally the only time he has
ever touched a screen.
He doesn't know how to really,
he doesn't know how to swipe.
Uh, you know, you've seen videos of like,
you know,
three months or six month olds where like
they somehow figure out how to do a
swipe on like an iPad or something.
Um,
we're very focused on avoiding the tech
integration, if that makes sense.
Now in the future, yeah.
When it becomes part of school or
whatever,
I think there could be benefit on how
to leverage it,
like how to
you know, almost get like a,
like a class or a tutorial in AI
in terms of like what a student would
use it for,
for like research purposes and how to find
research articles or how to, I don't know,
like,
I guess how they'll use it for book
reports instead of like the old school way
that we did book reports.
I don't know.
Like what else?
Um, second graders, fourth graders are,
are using AI.
Is that what your, your,
your line of thought on that?
The point of school is,
teach me how to learn, right?
I'm a student in school,
whether it's second grade or twelfth
grade.
Teach me how to learn.
Teach me how to find the research.
Teach me how to ask the critical
questions.
I think we all agree,
there isn't a single human that's like,
no, give me the information,
spoon feed me so I never have to
learn anything.
We all want to be lifelong learners,
but the human educator in front of a
class
only has so much time,
only has so much energy,
only has so many resources.
So you take AI,
you make that machine teach you how to
learn,
I think that's where we're missing each
other in this conversation because you've
got the people against it who are
concerned about environmental impact.
They're concerned about all this other
stuff.
They're working against data centers.
They're working against the infrastructure
build out.
But they also are saying, well,
it's just going to make everybody dumb and
give everybody the answer and nobody's
going to think for themselves.
I completely disregard that argument
because I think it's wrong.
I think anybody who understands how tools
function, how tools work, understands, no,
the purpose of AI isn't to give me
the answer.
I don't trust any answer AI gives me.
It's to teach me how to think critically
and ask better questions.
I think you use it that way today
in your business operations, in your life.
it helps you analyze numbers it helps you
look at different perspectives and as a
dpt student in the programs right now i
just every single day i'd be using it
as my study mate i'd be telling it
to create you know analyze the performance
of this test take the questions i got
wrong if i was practicing for the mpte
look at the ones I got wrong,
create study guides,
create testing material,
drill that information with me so that I
don't get that wrong on the actual test.
It's what we all did when we were
in school,
it's just now we're using a computer to
do it faster, better.
um but i have not heard a single
story coming out of any of the
universities about how they are
implementing ai to improve the quality of
education improve the quality of new grads
coming out and even the person who's not
against it
He still said,
we have to research it more.
We have to kind of put more time
into it to figure out how we're going
to use it.
I'm like,
by the time you figure it out,
it's going to be ten iterations ahead of
you.
It's not going to stay where it is
right now.
I can certainly see the value and the
benefit because it is kind of like a
new, I don't know,
it's like a new frontier, right?
Like this whole shift.
At some point it was like,
The new frontier was, I don't know,
like laptops, I guess, you know,
like for students and then maybe at some
point tablets or smartphones or, you know,
but yeah, there's never been, I guess,
like an acceleration of this magnitude
that can help with so many things like
how to study, how to find information,
how to process that information,
how to take that information and then you
utilize it.
for students in, like you said,
even like how to actually study or how
to prepare, which is huge.
And your initial question was,
should schools be helping students with
that?
Or should there be some types of like
courses or framework on how to like
approach it to use it as a student
in like grade school or high school?
A hundred percent.
Yeah, embrace it, you know,
It's already here, it's not going away.
So let's figure out how to do it
properly, ethically.
I'm just looking at what other topics we
had.
I got something from yesterday.
Well,
yesterday we had a technician come over
same day urgent for our refrigerator.
So our refrigerator has been just leaking
water underneath.
the coming out from underneath the
refrigerator for probably too long,
probably, probably a couple of months,
probably a couple of months.
And then intermittently recently,
it's been making some weird noises.
You know, it's almost like a, like a,
like a whale noise or, you know, like,
or like a dying whale noise or something
like that.
Like just,
I'm not even gonna do the noises,
but you've heard different fridge noises.
Where you're like, oh, no,
is the fridge dying?
Is it, you know,
is like the ice machine?
Whatever.
Something's going on.
So we've kind of been putting it off.
And then it started to make worse noises
yesterday or the day before.
And then the temperature inside the
refrigerator, the freezer was still good.
The temperature inside the refrigerator
was like, whoa,
like this is not really cold now.
And we're like cranking up the button to
increase the coldness.
That didn't help.
So then I'm grateful for my wife because
I was out yesterday.
So she was looking around and like every
place nearby that does like refrigerator
repair,
like they all have like horrible Google
reviews,
except for this one place that has like
four point nine star reviews,
like all these reviews.
But some of the reviews are like this
place is great.
They're very prompt.
But they're also expensive.
And at this point, it's like, hey,
we're taking food out of the freezer and
the refrigerator,
putting it in the coolers with ice packs.
When you're at that point,
you have no leverage,
which means you have to potentially buck
up and pay what they're charging,
which is,
guess how much the hourly rate is, Tony?
Now, again,
I know this is New York City, but...
What do you think?
My best guess, my truthful guess,
I'm going to say three hundred and fifty
dollars an hour.
Yeah.
Four hundred and fifty dollars an hour.
OK.
Yeah.
Uh, the,
there was like a hundred and forty nine
dollar diagnostic fee that like it,
that would be subtracted from the, the,
the deal.
Uh, if, if you went with them, right.
And if you decided like, all right,
I'm going to like go with someone else
or,
or not have them do like the hourly
rate or whatever,
then you would still have to pay a
hundred forty nine dollars.
Like,
I guess like even if they were here
for like ten or fifteen minutes or
something.
So obviously like they want you to do
the whole, you know,
have like do the whole job.
Right.
so the guy the technician was excellent he
was explaining everything uh and he was
very thorough and he basically took apart
the entire refrigerator unfortunately we
had to take all the shelves out we
had to take everything out of the
refrigerator it was a big process uh and
then he was here for an hour and
a half and uh it was yeah after
after after selling him so
if it's Zelle or Venmo, whatever,
like there's still,
there's still a sales tax.
I'm like, Oh God.
Right.
But I don't, you know, I don't have,
I don't have six hundred dollars cash in
my pocket.
Like who does now?
Nowadays.
Right.
So I, we sell them.
It was,
that was an hour and a half of
the hourly rate plus tax or whatever.
It was six hundred and fifty two something
dollars.
Um, which I, that's another thing.
Like when it's Zeller Venmo, it,
it's just, I mean, it feels,
it feels a little bit better.
Like if I'm,
if I'm handing over six hundred fifty two
dollars of cash, it's like, oh,
that's like a gut punch.
But it's like, it's Zell.
So it's almost like fake money.
It's like funny money.
It's, I don't know, like it's,
I guess it's mind of money,
but it's some digits out of my bank
account.
Some digits go into his bank account.
Um, but the, the,
the thing I wanted to mention on the
show is that, um,
yes is a lot of money.
Then I'm asking my wife,
like how much is like a, how much,
I have no idea.
Like how much is a new refrigerator?
Like a thousand or two?
Because if this happens again,
like we're already potentially two,
we're potentially halfway or three
quarters of the way towards the next
refrigerator.
Then I'm asking like, when did this,
when did we get this refrigerator?
Or when did you,
when did you get like, was it,
I don't know,
twenty two thousand nine or twenty eleven
or something like what?
How old is this?
And then if this gets all fixed,
like what's the what's the longevity of
this refrigerator after today?
Assuming everything, you know,
he had to like melt ice inside the
refrigerator and there was some flap that
wasn't closing and it was like the
airflow.
And I didn't know this,
but the airflow from the freezer,
that cold air is what goes up into
the refrigerator.
It's like a one way or a one
or a one area flow of air inside
this refrigerator unit.
But the reason why I wanted to mention
this is because of everything I just said.
But then also at the end,
we're opening up the back of the
refrigerator and he's like, hey,
can I teach you how to change this
thing?
You need to change this like little
silicon filter thing in the back.
He goes, I'll show you the product online.
It's pretty cheap online.
I'm like, yeah, sure.
So I record video on my phone.
he opens up the back of the refrigerator.
He shows me how to change this other
little tube and filter.
You can, I can see,
he shows me it's,
it's basically worn out just from wear and
tear or whatever.
And for, for years.
And so he's like, I'll,
I'll teach you how to,
I'll teach you how to do this because
otherwise I would have to come back and
that would be like another, you know,
three hundred dollars or whatever.
Like that would be like another call,
another visit here.
Uh, so he's like,
or I could just teach you how to
do it.
And it's like very easy.
He shows me the part online with the,
with the model number, the part on,
on Amazon is like, so I'm like,
I'm like, great.
We'll order that.
Shows me how to do it.
I record the video on my phone.
So now I know how to do it.
And then we settle up and there,
anyone that's watching or listening,
like I'm not making the direct correlation
to physical therapy because
he and our interaction is kind of like
a one-off like he he the whole thing
was framed around capturing as i guess as
much value and as much dollars that would
you know equally match uh what he did
and how he did it but it's different
than what we do in terms of it's
almost would be like the evaluation only
which sometimes tony you do and that's
that's why i want to make the connection
there because he's teaching me how to do
this other thing to prevent me from having
like a second
house call you know a second appointment
or whatever whereas physical therapy is
obviously like obviously in our business
like we never do that like we're not
we're hardly ever going to be like all
right that's all you need and let me
teach you all the exercises you can do
on your own because we know people are
not going to do them anyway and um
i just can't imagine doing an evaluation
and then like not doing a plan of
care i think for most people at least
for our clientele and or my brain that
that's just how i
work like I know people are going to
need the accountability for the follow up
and it's going to take more than just
an hour and a half like it did
for this guy with the refrigerator.
Obviously,
like we're dealing with humans and
physical therapy.
And in this case,
this guy's just dealing with this
refrigerator that he knows how to fix and
it just took him an hour and a
half.
So yes,
the six hundred fifty two dollars even in
New York City is expensive.
And there's just like some similarities,
but obviously there's some, you know,
areas that are like dissimilar from what
we do.
So I just wanted to throw it out
there.
I think we could take so many lessons
away from that.
And let's spend a little time kind of
diving into that scenario.
So from a marketing standpoint,
from a new patient relating it to physical
therapy standpoint, you as the consumer,
I'm in the same boat.
We had a washing machine and a dryer.
Something was malfunctioning on the
washing machine.
And I went through the same thought
process as you.
I'm like, all right,
if I call a repair person,
is it even worth it?
By the time the repair person comes,
There's the diagnostic fee,
and then there's going to be the parts
and the labor.
If I'm going to be invested six hundred,
seven hundred dollars,
how much is a new washer and dryer?
This one's already, I don't know,
twelve years old.
What's the life expectancy of a typical
washer and dryer?
You know,
if another three hundred dollars,
I can get a new one and just
replace the existing one.
That is kind of, in my opinion,
the same thing the typical physical
therapy consumer goes through when they're
sitting there and they're like,
I've got this shoulder pain.
What is physical therapy going to do?
I don't even know what physical therapy
does.
I don't know who I'm going to see.
Are they going to massage it?
Are they going to exercise it?
Is it going to cost me?
What is it going to cost?
And then if I invest that money,
do I have to do more visits?
Is it going to cost me more?
Are they going to try and sell me
on a twelve visit package?
I wonder, in the product repair world,
I have somebody that I know who's a
plumber.
They have a huge plumbing business.
They do more than ten million a year
in revenue.
And I'm like, guys,
why don't you just set up the ability
for one of your plumbers
to Zoom in, like literally Zoom, FaceTime,
video.
I think we talked about this a long
time ago.
Like, let me pay a fee,
seventy nine dollars.
Your technician guy can be at their own
home.
I'll get my phone,
I'll go to my washing machine,
I'll show him what I'm doing,
what I'm looking at,
or I'll go to my sink or whatever.
And like, maybe it's a simple fix.
Maybe your guy is gonna be like, oh,
you just need this gasket,
go to Home Depot,
buy this specific product,
unscrew that bolt,
and it'll be fixed for twenty bucks.
Right.
They get the fee.
They never have to leave their home or
the office because he was saying we have
to have people on call.
I have to pay my plumbers to be
available twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week.
The plumbers, he said, would love it.
They never rolled this out,
but I'm just saying this goes back to
the concept we talked about,
low barrier to entry.
Somebody has a nine-year-old kid on the
soccer field at nine thirty at night.
Kid sprains an ankle.
They don't know,
do I go to urgent care?
Do I go to the emergency room?
What are the odds that something is
fractured?
They pull a therapist up, FaceTime.
You go through your questions,
you go through all of that.
And then the thing with that interaction,
you get paid for the interaction.
The client saves time, money, hassle,
fear, anxiety, all of that stuff.
But now you just recorded a video of
a real world interaction that is going to
be the same exact interaction hundreds or
thousands of other people in the future
are going to go through.
And so why do I need to have
a human diagnose the same problem every
single time as opposed to just letting the
consumer buy access to that video
interaction
It works for physical therapy.
It works for plumbing.
You know,
when I go to YouTube and I'm like,
hey,
this is the code that my washing machine
is showing me.
YouTube has a series of videos that allows
me for free to see maybe that's the
problem.
And how did they solve that problem?
You just take it a couple of steps
down the line.
I think physical therapists should be
doing this.
I think every single evaluation should be
documented.
It should be shared.
I think we would help on a public
health basis,
but then we would increase the
understanding of the consumer.
Well, what's physical therapy going to do?
What can I expect?
Is it worth the money that they want
to charge?
Because right now, it's a black box.
The consumer has no idea walking into the
scenario what's going to happen.
And we're trying to sell,
whether it's insurance or private pay.
Something that nobody even knows what
they're buying until they get I Love it.
I've even been considering Us charging
more for private Visits like meaning the
traditional way of like it's just the
therapist and the patient regardless of
whether it's the home visit or the office
visit and then having it almost like forty
or fifty percent cheaper than
if they consent to every single visit is
recorded,
like whether it's clips and the therapist
is kind of like, you know,
doing the video or if I'm there and
I'm recording clips kind of like the whole
time.
So that way,
like we wouldn't even have to ask like,
Hey,
is it cool if we do some video,
whatever, like there,
it would be choosing like the completely
private traditional option,
which is like the physical therapist is
there.
And especially a home visit, like it just,
the therapist and the patient, which,
Obviously,
some of my patients will still want and
they will probably pay higher to not have
it recorded like they want that much
discretion and privacy and
confidentiality.
And that's fine.
But then we want video assets.
Right.
And I'm really,
really trying and pushing hard for it
right now.
So
Then the patient is incentivized to then
pay less.
They get to benefit by paying less.
If they're like, ah, yeah, whatever.
Like, yeah, of course you can.
Yeah, you can record it, whatever.
Like, no problem.
So then we still get income,
maybe not the full amount of the private
experience, but we still get some revenue,
still cover our overhead and everything.
and capture video assets,
then easily I could have the patient or
client wearing a lapel mic and the
therapist wearing the other lapel mic.
Then I can capture all the audio
regardless of,
where they are in the clinic or whatever,
and kind of getting my camera, my phone,
if I'm there,
in the patient's kind of face and in
their way.
And they'll be so comfortable doing it.
They'll be so comfortable with me being in
their space, whatever,
because they already chose the lower cost
option that includes the video recording.
And if that was an issue,
then they would have chose the
higher option cost to not have it recorded
at all.
And then we'll know very clearly like
who's okay with it and who's not.
And whatever they pay kind of goes with
those options.
It makes total sense.
I know it's really small on the screen.
Um,
but just the reason why the consumer is
paying a higher rate not to record is
because not recording costs you the
producer money.
And on the screen, you know,
I can't necessarily zoom in,
but I'll run through some numbers.
This eleven minute,
forty three second video of me answering a
question, why your knee won't bend,
why your knee won't bend after a knee
replacement.
It was recorded and published February
twenty eight, two thousand twenty three.
So not even that long ago,
three years ago,
a little over three years ago.
It's generated two thousand five hundred
dollars.
It was a single recording, no editing,
just me answering a typical question that
a patient would ask me during a patient
engagement.
Ten minutes,
two thousand five hundred dollars.
This one talking about the timeline for
recovery after knee replacement,
eight minutes,
two thousand five hundred dollars.
Talking about sleeping positions after
knee replacement,
twenty one hundred dollars.
Showing a patient,
like recording me with a patient getting
off the floor using a lift chair,
two thousand dollars.
You know,
multiple examples of the instance in time
that was recorded,
I didn't do anything different,
I didn't do anything special,
that continues to generate a return on
that investment.
So if somebody wanted to buy that hour
of my life and tell me I am
not allowed to monetize it in any other
way,
potentially they should be paying for the
right to take that time and that money
away from me you know that that it's
a basic trade basic value exchange there
um and i just i i keep saying
it i don't understand why more people more
therapists either aren't doing it or don't
see it that way um
And then of course,
that's not even talking about turning
these into digital assets that you can
sell.
That's just monetized with YouTube ads.
You know, you take an evaluation,
your typical evaluation for low back pain,
and somebody who doesn't have time to go
get an evaluation for low back pain but
reads the description that says, oh man,
that sounds exactly like what I'm dealing
with.
I have pain when I'm standing upright,
but I can push a grocery cart for
forty minutes.
I can't stand unsupported for five
minutes.
I'm dragging my feet.
I don't stand up tall.
It hurts me to extend.
It feels better when I flex."
You can describe spinal stenosis to a T
right out of the textbook,
and somebody reads that description and is
like,
that is exactly what I'm dealing with.
I want to see how a therapist evaluates
and creates a plan of care for that
condition.
That's huge value.
Somebody, absolutely.
Plenty of people would buy that because
they don't have time to see a therapist.
They don't want Dave to come out to
their house.
They don't want to do the stuff that,
you know, you would typically have to do.
So how would someone,
you're saying put this behind a paywall?
How would someone do this easily?
The easiest way to do it, truthfully,
is you start building your social media
presence.
You start sharing the videos,
clips that show bits and pieces of it
just to kind of pique attention.
Then you put a call to action out
there.
Hey, comment stenosis, comment back pain,
comment whatever.
They comment,
you send them the like little introduction
of these are the symptoms commonly
associated with this condition.
If you need more information, you know,
like that's the free guide.
Take this, go to your doctor,
talk to them about what you think you
might have.
If you want to see how I would
treat this or evaluate this with a real
patient dealing with these real symptoms,
this is the video, you know,
ninety nine dollars or fifty nine dollars
or whatever it's going to be.
They pay, you have an automation set up.
So once the payment goes through,
you just shoot them out an unlisted video
link.
If you don't want to pay for platforms
and all the other stuff,
like unlisted YouTube video link of that,
who cares if they share it?
Who cares what they do with it?
There's going to be enough unique people.
that are gonna buy that information just
to get that fly on the wall perspective.
You're not treating them.
You're not telling them what to do.
You are letting them see in a safe
environment what a therapist does with
someone else who's dealing with the same
symptoms.
I love it.
Can I just make a comment back on
that Marvel gym that you posted the
screenshot or the video?
um as we wrap up so i was
thinking about it and i think it's a
horrible idea why because again now here's
the thing the the the owner the the
founder of this could have more intel than
i do and he's probably thinking well he
he has to be thinking
I'm hoping because that looks like a lot
of money.
Yeah, that looks like a lot.
It looks like a lot of money.
And I could be risky.
The reason what I'm saying is,
does that guy?
Does that guy know that in hit?
This was where California?
Do you remember the state?
Does it matter?
I thought it was New York.
This guy better know that.
there are a ton of fans of marvel
nearby because if not it'll it'll be a
failure because people who don't want or
don't care about marvel will have no
incentive to go pay to be a member
there so i hope he has intel that
there's like some crazy amount i don't
know maybe there's like um
there's groups nearby that they go and see
Marvel movies together,
like almost like run clubs,
but it's like Marvel movie clubs and they,
they do Marvel movie showings and,
and they attract dozens or hundreds of
people or something, or he's, he must,
I hope he's got some,
better understanding than I do.
Cause I'm just making an assumption.
I think it's,
I think it's actually a horrible idea
because imagine nearby there's,
there's a crunch or there's planet fitness
and there's lifetime and there's all these
gyms nearby, wherever this guy's located.
And there might even be Marvel fans at
those gyms.
Tony,
this guy would have to hopefully influence
those people to leave those gyms to go
to his gym or, and, or,
attract people who currently are not
already going to a gym and want to
pick and choose like this.
Where should I go work out?
Most people are going to pick like I
work out at home, home gym,
or what else?
People pick a local gym based off of
price or location, maybe the aesthetics.
You better hope they're picking for your
Marvel aesthetics.
But now you have to be charging way
more because you're probably going to
attract less people.
So it's like, I just think that
I mean,
this guy probably knows more than I do
about his ideal client customer avatar
that is obsessed with Marvel.
And so I would be curious.
I think my gut tells me this is
a terrible idea.
I mean,
it's like making my clinic in New York
City like a Philadelphia Eagles physical
therapy clinic, right?
So I will attract some Eagle fans that
are going to be like raving fans that
are going to want to come to my
Philadelphia Eagles physical therapy
clinic.
but it also could turn off a lot
of other people that just don't want that
type of an aesthetic.
They don't care about a Philadelphia
Eagles physical therapy clinic.
Right.
So like in Philly, it would do well,
maybe, but in New York,
that same clinic will probably not do as
well.
So like,
why would I redesign it differently at the
same time?
I hope, like I said,
I hope this guy knows more than me
because maybe he's doing like a Savannah
bananas.
He's doing something like so remarkable,
different off the wall and,
like maybe he'll attract people that are
like,
like one and two and three degrees away
from Marvel, right?
Like the DC comic fans and comic book
fans.
And I don't know, star Trekkie fan,
I don't know, all that type of stuff.
Like maybe, maybe.
So I would be curious if we're still
doing the show in a couple of years
and we look back and we pull up
this guy's business.
Is he still in business in two or
three or four years from now?
If you had to, if I had to,
if I had to say it,
I would say no,
but he could also be like crazy growing
with like multiple Marvel gyms in four
years from now.
So I could be wrong.
I don't know.
And this will be the parting shot.
I think the reality is he's going to
lose tons of money.
He would have invested this money in
building this gym regardless of ever
monetizing it.
I think he's hoping that it's crazy enough
that he can build his Instagram channel
just on the visual aesthetic.
I wouldn't be surprised if he never trains
a client, if he never sells a membership.
But it's just like the dad who buys
a boat, who goes out twice a year.
It'd be better to rent the boat than
to buy it.
You know,
there's plenty of us who waste boatloads
of money on passion projects that never
take off.
The closest success I think he can have
is just on social media and monetizing it
with that, brand deals and things.
Because even if he tried to grow it,
you can't license.
I don't know how the licensing would work
for all of that branding on something that
he's selling memberships to.
I don't know.
That's beyond my knowledge base.
So parting shot, I would just say,
We all lose money intentionally,
voluntarily on the stuff that we're
passionate about.
I think that's a money losing proposition
for him,
but it's worth looking at on social media.
For the rest of us who need to
actually support a family,
put money in the bank,
save for retirement,
I think like we said today,
is physical therapy still worth it?
one million percent as long as you're not
delusional and think we live in two
thousand two thousand one two thousand two
time frame as long as you realize we
live in two thousand twenty six you need
to come into the profession with the
expectation that what worked twenty years
ago will not work today yes it's still
worth it what's your parting shot
Parting shot,
I'll go with this Marvel comic gym.
So this guy, Brandon, on Instagram,
his account says,
I design themed home gyms and licensed
character kettlebells.
So there you go.
He made this to sell that stuff.
He's not making it to attract paying
members.
So I apologize.
I didn't understand the full story.
He's doing this on social media,
like you said,
to get in front of people that have...
uh,
discretionary money that want a crazy home
gym like this.
And they can,
he'll use the Instagram and the visual and
all that to show what's possible for crazy
avid fans of whatever.
And then,
then he or his team or whatever would
then do the, the themed home gyms.
I'm fine with just like my unfinished
garage as my home gym.
But you know, if you, if you got,
I get, I hope I'm, I don't know.
I'm, I'm sure I'll be, um,
I'll be flushed with money at some point
where I'm going to want some crazy themed
home gym and maybe I'll come back and
I'll, I'll pay this guy, Brandon.
And then he can say that I was
wrong when I talked about his business on,
uh, on the show.
All right, guys, that's a show.
Come join us Tuesday, Thursday mornings,
eight thirty, uh, a.m.
Eastern.
Dave, thanks for joining me.
Thank you guys.
That's it.
We're out.
Boys, what the hell are you doing?
Follow Tony Maritato on YouTube at Total
Therapy Solution.
Find Dave Kittle at
conciergepainrelief.com and on YouTube at
The Dave Kittle Show.
And follow Jimmy McKay at PT Podcasts on
YouTube, the socials,
and wherever you binge podcasts you
pretend are for CEUs.