Broadcasting way too early from three
separate Wi-Fi connections.
It's PT Breakfast Club with Tony Meritato,
Dave Kittle, and Jimmy McKay.
all right welcome to pt breakfast club
live stream and i just realized i left
my coffee somewhere on the train i just
looked for like where where is it i
have the laptop though don't leave the
laptop and bring the coffee leave the
coffee bring the laptop tony maritano on a
beach are you at a lake you're the
ocean where are you we're at the ocean
we're at hilton head the boys are out
there fishing in the surf right now so
i didn't want to leave them alone
Perfect.
And Dave Kittle, Dave Kittle somewhere.
He's not in the bluegrass country again,
is he?
Not that I've heard of.
All right.
What do you want to talk about?
I just got back from a road trip
and a half, man.
I did all sorts of APTA stuff and
then I got on a train this morning
and headed to, I mean,
good product placement, right?
I'm at the prompt headquarters in their
podcast studio.
The podcast studio.
Wow.
They've got a dedicated podcast studio.
I walked in last time I was here,
and I was like,
it's all the toys in the background that
people like Jimmy McKay play with.
Microphones, cameras, and doodads,
and power banks, and things like that.
But I got in trouble.
by APTA.
I broke a rule.
I didn't know I was breaking.
So, all right.
So this past weekend I was in Portland
and it was APTA's house of delegates,
which is like their Congress, you know,
where laws, you know, get made and,
and their payment summit.
So payment summit came first and that's
that the turnout was,
I mean,
I guess shouldn't surprise us for a long
time.
APTA critics are saying you're focusing on
all the wrong things.
Money focus on money will solve everything
else after money.
So this was an entire two day deal
all about payment summit.
whole thing the thing that surprised me
four hundred and fifty people signed up
for this and flew all the way to
portland so was anything solved no but
it's never solved in one conference right
but a bunch of people get together you'll
never know what happened in that room for
six months eighteen months twenty four
months the fact that it's happening and
the fact that it's not called the
reimbursement summit it's called the
payment summit
automatically for someone like me who
loves naming things and words fantastic
but four hundred and fifty people signed
up for that thing and headed out there
um so let's get dave in here dave
would love this too there were there were
more than a few i know it was
the payment summit right so you think
third-party payers uh but there are more
than a few
cash practitioners out there at the APTA
event as well.
So the people like Dave Kittles of the
world getting excited too.
They're like,
what do we need to summit for?
You give me money.
I give you QR code.
What's the problem?
We just swipe.
Very simple.
The reason I got in trouble was the
next part of the weekend was APTA's House
of Delegates.
And I'm not a delegate,
but I'm just in the peanut gallery.
And of course I'm listening and I'm
heckling or why are we talking about this?
And I'm live tweeting what's happening.
And then at the lunch break,
they come on the big loudspeaker and
they're like,
we've been given reports that people are
live tweeting what's going on here.
And I was like, nice, that's me.
And they're like,
just a reminder that is against the rules.
You're not allowed to do that.
So you're not allowed to do that.
So I got in trouble.
But what do they got to do?
Put me in LinkedIn jail?
So I stopped.
But also because a lot of this stuff
was a little over my head.
But I cheated.
You guys would appreciate this.
I uploaded the hundred and forty page PDF
to Claude.
And then I sat there and I was
like, all right, we're on RC for.
What does this mean?
Give it to me in eighth grade language.
Why should I care?
You know, is this going to pass?
Yada, yada.
And Claude was able to walk me through
everything.
So that's how Jimmy got in trouble at
APTA this weekend.
But we kept Portland weird.
Let's put it that way.
Real quick, it drives me crazy.
So my wife does social media for a
local theater group that my kid's in.
And every single show,
they do three big shows a year.
Every single show, it's the same argument.
We need to show the audience what is
happening, what is coming,
what you're coming to see.
Like, these kids are phenomenal.
This isn't like a typical high school
show.
These are like professional kids.
Many of them have gone on to be
on TV shows and other stuff.
And we're like,
they don't want to spoil the surprise,
right?
but i'm like the parent these are parents
coming to see their kids they're coming no
matter what if you make it and show
them how incredible the sets are they have
like a thirty five forty thousand dollar
budget for every show you show them how
incredible the sets are the costume the
design live orchestra in the pit
But they won't do it.
They're like, no,
we're going to ruin the surprise.
We need the big reveal.
We can't do it.
And it drives us insane because we know
we could sell out every show if people
could just see that.
Perfect example is every single inning of
every single Savannah Bananas baseball
game is streamed live on YouTube.
And they still sell out one hundred
thousand seat stadiums.
Yeah.
Oh,
I was at an APTA event when I
was a student.
I was like,
why don't they record or share these
things?
If we record or share them,
no one will come in person.
Hello?
Oh, the music industry is on line three.
Apparently, when you download a song,
you never go to see that band live.
Dave Grohl was famous.
for saying i brought this up a couple
weeks ago on linkedin when napster came
around uh kids napster was like a free
spotify that you never had to pay for
or listen to ads uh when napster came
around ironically metallica the biggest
anti-culture and anti-establishment band
was like
was pro-regulation.
And Dave Grohl was like, listen, guys,
you're not seeing it.
Give away the songs for free and live
on the live show, the T-shirt, the merch,
the community, those things.
I don't know if you guys know this,
but the movie industry,
if you've seen a movie trailer,
it gives away most of the movie.
But people still go see the movie.
because you're giving away parts and maybe
it's not in the right order or you're
going or you leave me with a cliffhanger
and now you've you've you've put an itch
in my brain and i've got to see
how those two things come together so hard
hard agree on you can't over you can't
over share like you can't you just can't
so what were some of the big takeaways
that you are allowed to share
And why we've had this conversation,
I still don't understand.
Why do you like payment instead of
reimbursement?
reimbursement sounds like, uh, thank you,
sir.
May I have another,
could I have some more, some more soup,
please, sir.
Can we put another, you know,
brick of coal, uh, you know,
nugget of coal,
which is exactly what it is by the
way.
That's exactly the process.
And getting paid is like, uh,
you want your, uh,
you want your kitchen redone.
It's
up front and I'll get to you in
six months.
I just think it reframes the,
it reframes what's actually happening,
which is an exchange of services,
not I'll do something.
And then you're going to knock me down
anyway.
I think part of it comes from healthcare
is not supposed to be profitable.
Nobody's supposed to make, you know,
extra money than you need to survive in
healthcare.
So they said,
we can't use the word payment because
that's, that's related to money.
Let's call it reimbursement.
But I also think I am paying my
staff, I'm delivering the service,
I'm putting money out,
and then I'm submitting a claim to get
that money reimbursed from the insurance
company.
So, I mean, I don't care.
I see it the same way.
Reimbursement, payment,
it makes no difference, but...
Yeah, it feels, I mean,
that's what it is, right?
Like I've worked for companies where I had
to spend a lot of money on like
things up front and it felt weird me
then asking for that money back.
I'm like, my man,
when I was doing that work thing and
I kept swiping my credit card until I
said,
I want you to give me a credit
card or you front me up front,
I'll let you know when my bank of
money for you is gone and then you'll
give me some more.
So I think it's as subtle as that.
Uh,
I was in terms of the RCs or
the bills,
the first four were about money.
And I would love to talk to this
woman.
Her name is Gwen.
She's a physical therapist and a lawyer.
I'm going to say out of Maine.
Yeah, that's it.
Yep.
And she authored RC one and RC two.
I sat down, I studied, I was like,
you know,
I put it in AI and had it
explained to me.
I studied the RCs and I was like,
I can't wait to see how these get
all voted.
And, uh,
I got my coffee and came back and
they were on RC four already.
It was eight minutes in.
They were just adopted.
They were like, we read these.
We love like they did not debate them,
which is a good thing,
which means they were just got it.
Yes.
Moving on.
So they just accepted the first couple.
What's RC reference.
Give me a minute.
Uh, like reference committee.
Oh, okay.
Reference committee, but it's like a bill.
It's a bill.
Like let's, we all know schoolhouse rocks.
Okay.
So that's how a bill becomes a bill.
It's how an RC becomes a thing,
but they released the official minutes,
three days or something afterwards,
probably.
So all the teas are dotted and the
eyes are crossed.
You know how these things go.
Um,
so most of the things that were happening,
uh,
were a little over my head.
Here's the thing, though.
Here's the thing that I kept thinking.
They literally were like talking about
debating uses of the word and or or,
super minute things.
And to me,
I can't deal with things like that.
I'm just like, you do it.
I did think of that whole line where
you say,
if you're flying from LA to Washington,
DC,
and you miss dial by a tenth of
a degree,
you're going to wind up in Miami,
whatever the example is.
I'm like, I get it.
I get it.
Someone's got to do this stuff.
Right.
I mean, there was the Oxford comma.
Right.
Wasn't that the bane of our existence for
for a while?
So someone screwed up in a meeting like
this.
And then we dealt with the Oxford comma
for a million years.
So is there a need for a room
like this?
Yes.
Should I be on a delegation?
I don't know.
Probably not doing that stuff,
not doing that stuff.
Um,
but the fact that everybody came together
is also, it honestly,
it's the bump ability of the nighttime
activities too,
is you're going to meet people from
different States and different settings.
And next thing you know,
a business is born or an idea or
a project launches.
So, you know,
I look at this and talking about payment
for physical therapy or payment for
healthcare.
And, uh,
I have no hope.
I mean,
I have no positive outlook on any of
this.
And I look at these posts on LinkedIn
and you're going there and they're APTA,
this and that with different stuff about
payment and the actual,
like anything they like would be
substantial.
Let's say a four to six percent increase
every year, right?
It's never going to happen.
It's not happening.
It hasn't happened.
There's no way that it's going to happen
this year.
There's no way that it's going to happen
in five years.
There's no way that it's ever going to
happen.
It is just.
It's kind of wild, I believe,
that like there are so many smart,
motivated people,
especially you get them together and they
can maybe move mountains.
But this is a mountain that is immovable.
This is the ultimate immovable mountain.
And I want to kind of like, listen,
if you're like Tony, right?
Like you're already in network for a lot
of years and you bought real estate and
your family set up and you can dabble
online, like cool, like all good.
But even Tony is not with the pitchforks
and signs at the Capitol or whatever with
like, hey, I want more payment.
Because he knows it's not going to happen.
And it's just crazy that there's all these
efforts for something that is literally
out of our hands.
These multi,
multi-billion dollar insurance companies
do not care about any of this.
They don't care about the APTA.
They don't care about any of the payment
reform.
They don't care about who goes and talks
to any of the senators or Congress people
or anyone.
Literally, they're... I mean, tell me,
Jimmy, please.
Jimmy, Tony,
anyone else that's watching live,
anyone that's watching on YouTube or
LinkedIn,
comment here live because I want to be
positive.
I'm super bullish on the future of the
profession,
but it's exchanging a dollar amount for...
a package visit or one visit in person
or some online stuff telehealth and some
stuff in person and maybe some stuff that
Tony has kind of sold and pitched but
I'm very bullish on what we do and
the value that we bring to people and
the results and the confidence that we
give to patients and clients but in terms
of the insurance companies or Medicare
paying us more
ever, it's not going to happen.
So there's all this effort and initiative
and people travel and they fly and they
go to DC or they go to Portland
and they go to these different APT events
about payment.
And you're talking about RC this, RC that,
and this four things got passed, whatever.
It literally, none of this matters.
None of this will move the needle.
And please tell me live,
if anyone is here commenting,
let me know where I'm wrong.
I would be open to it.
But it's why there's so many...
twenty and thirty year olds that are doing
out of networking and self-pay practices
now all over the country because they see
the writing on the wall they see that
it's impossible to make a living making
seventy dollars a visit from an in-network
physical therapy visit and then you got to
see volume right so am i wrong am
i out of line uh am i not
am i overlooking something yeah
I would say the policy people would have
would have better that I've had these
people on the show,
they explain it better.
And they say this is the what have
they done?
They haven't done anything.
Nothing works.
What have they done?
Like anything substantial three to six
percent increase ever in any calendar year
or even over the last ten years?
It hasn't they haven't done anything.
There are no results.
Do they have any receipts?
No,
I would I would I would love to
bring them on the show and let them
answer your question.
I mean,
it reminds me of when you have that
patient in the clinic who's like,
forty years at a desk, out of shape,
overweight, diabetic, hypertensive,
you know, all those things.
It's more about success measured as not
getting worse as quickly as you would
expect.
Right.
That's what that's what this is.
It's it's you're OK.
We would have lost twenty percent a year
in payment, not five percent a year.
I really do think that's what their their
claim to success would be.
That which is which is horrific.
Right.
But you know, you can hate the player.
You could hate the game.
I could see if we had no advocacy,
someone would go,
not one person spoke up for physical
therapy on the house floor.
This is BS.
Why would we not do this?
Fair.
No one did it.
Right.
Like, and if someone, you know,
there are splinter organizations that have
also started up and I interviewed some of
those people and I said,
their main gripe is APTA sucks.
So I handed them a microphone and said,
what would you do?
And they said, we'd send emails.
And I said,
APTA does that.
How will your emails be different?
And they could not explain that.
They could not explain who they were
writing to differently or what they were
saying differently.
And I finally said,
will your emails all be written in bold
and italics?
Like you have to explain to me how
it's different.
And they couldn't.
And eventually they actually relented and
said,
Yeah,
we can't do anything differently than
we're already doing.
This game sucks.
Like, no bones about it.
The people in it,
I imagine the people like Justin Elliott
at APT are like, this game sucks.
Exactly, exactly.
So why not ten years ago,
why not five years ago, whatever, say,
hey, listen, we have to unplug from this.
We have to unplug from this.
And every – they could have – I
would have gone more aggressive.
I would have said, hey,
we've got to get the Tony Meritatos of
the world.
We've got to get all these people and
say,
hey –
Let's all stop billing in network
insurances.
Let's get together.
Now you sound like the guys from UPTA.
And my response is fantastic.
Have you ever thrown a surprise birthday
party with eight friends?
You can't get everybody there on time.
If we got ten percent of the population
or the profession to stop taking
insurance, it's not going to happen.
I mean,
I love wishing that's not going to happen.
Would that work if you could do it?
Yes.
The orchestrate,
you can't get a hundred people to click
like on a photo.
Like that's hard enough.
It's just not going to happen.
So if we unplug,
it's like raging against gravity.
It's like,
I'm just not going to pay attention to
it today.
It's like, it doesn't,
gravity doesn't care.
This system does not care.
And so, and so,
so then there's a whole bunch of in
that we're practice owners that unless
they sell to a regional or national
corporate that has better back end and all
that, like they're,
they're never going to have higher visit
rate revenue per visit ever.
Right,
except this whole show is that way is
closed.
That way is as good as it's going
to be.
Someone else should advocate.
Someone else should go to these meetings.
I'll go to the parties.
Someone else go to the meetings.
What else are you going to do?
Gravity sucks.
Charging the consumer a dollar amount for
whatever your service is.
It's very simple.
And that's the thing is like,
it has nothing really to do with the
APTA.
It's like we set our own prices and
we either deliver value or we don't.
We either deliver results or we don't.
And that results in,
I'll tell you, like,
I had a therapist sell a thirty six
hundred dollar package yesterday that
basically pays for his next whole
paycheck.
Like the cash flow of self pay is
just it's it's awesome.
Right.
I sleep really well at night because
there's always cash flow.
I don't have to worry about much revenue
cycle management and, you know,
begging for claims and denying visits.
But it could happen everywhere.
People,
therapists could be doing it everywhere.
They could be doing it everywhere,
but people could be eating healthy and
exercising all the time everywhere,
but they're not going to.
So the only thing I learned from
statistics is that lovely shape,
the bell curve.
So you are on the right side of
the bell curve and you are,
I don't know,
three standard deviations from the mean.
The middle is doing it this other way.
Most of the profession is doing it this
other way.
And the cool part is economy is a
scale.
I mean,
when you divide this amount of work by
this many people or this large an
audience,
it moves faster than if a couple people
did it.
I'm not saying it's moving fast.
I'm saying I'm glad someone's at least
doing it.
It ain't me,
but I'm glad someone smarter than me is
doing it.
But would you agree or disagree that any
of the efforts in the last fifteen or
twenty years
have made any real impact.
Yes.
It may be a slow,
maybe like Tony said, it's,
it's decreased the ability for all these
insurance companies to by twenty five
percent.
i don't know why i put any money
into my four one k eleven years ago
i didn't i have not felt anything from
that i will when i take the money
out so you could say i it feels
like it's slow but then you could say
direct access or you could say different
policy wins here's what i'll do my
homework before thursday i'll get a list
of things that have happened over the last
twenty years let's look if they're
significant or not if the juice is worth
the squeeze but the alternative is nothing
and to me nothing feels lazy
All right,
we got to loop Tony back in.
I know he's there on the beach looking
all types of relaxed.
I want to share this because this made
me think of both of you because we've
talked about Chris Corner.
And if you don't – the problem with
Chris Corner is he spells his name funny
because I've told several people.
They're like, I can't find this guy.
And I'm like, it's K-O-E-R-N-E-R.
He's got to change his name.
Now what he provides people is stunningly
awesome.
Chris corner is the kind of guy who
looks at a business.
He could look at a lemonade stand and
be like, look at this kid.
This kid's out here selling lemonade on a
busy corner.
Why did he pick that corner?
Cause it's busy.
We talked about an idea on this show
that I thought about doing with my
brother, which was,
and then I saw a post in a
local to my town, Facebook group.
And it is this post grandpa,
the mailbox guy.
Now,
two hundred eighty dollars to install a
mailbox and he gives this is clearly ai
generated but i don't care because it's
actually ai generated but it looks pretty
nice four different types of mailbox
designs and if you dave have you ever
dug a hole with a post hole digger
tony have you ever dug a hole yes
of course of course i'm from a blue
collar family man listen come on now
I got to be honest,
digging a hole with a post hole digger
will humble you real quick because one
hole ain't that bad.
But when you got to install a fence,
fifteen, twenty holes sucks.
So if you look at this, you're like,
man,
the snowplow has been blowing up my
mailbox all winter and it looks like ass.
And I got the crappiest mailbox in Milan
in the neighborhood.
You're like two hundred eighty bucks.
Never mind the labor.
It's the mailbox, the post,
the da da da da da da da
da da.
The margins on Grandpa the Mailbox Guy,
which is a great name, by the way,
because who doesn't want to throw Grandpa
some cash?
Grandpa will do it.
The neighborhood grandpa.
The margin on this must be like.
It's fifty percent.
I'll do the math in a second,
but two hundred eighty bucks for a brand
new mailbox and the post.
And here's what you're paying for.
It's freaking done.
Well, is it including the,
like in that price,
you think it includes the supplies?
Because it says installation.
It doesn't say.
Yeah.
I can't imagine.
I can't imagine it includes everything.
Yeah, maybe not.
You know what I'm going to do?
Here, keep talking.
I'm going to text this dude to see
if he responds at eight fifty three in
the morning.
So call or text the grandpa guy.
So I'm going to call him right now.
But I just like here's what I'm saying
with Dave.
If the only way you could make money
is.
whatever the normal way is,
or wait for someone to decide how much
money you make, that sucks.
This dude's like, I am... Now,
this guy probably also has other side
hustles.
But when you text him and you're like,
are you the grandpa, the mailbox guy?
He's like, oh, got it, grandpa mode.
I know who I'm talking to.
But this is just a way of saying...
He's selling mailboxes, but he's not.
He's selling the to-done version of this.
And that's why it's stunningly simple and
stunningly stupid.
So I saw that in the wild after
we had talked about it in my hometown
Facebook group.
I wanted to bring it up.
So while you text him,
this goes back to, okay,
how do we apply this to what we
do?
I would say like the obvious solution is,
hey, I'll come out,
install a grab bar for a hundred and
fifty dollars.
As soon as you say to a physical
therapist who's complaining about not
making enough money that you could be
installing grab bars for one hundred and
fifty dollars.
The first thing they're going to say is
it's too risky, too much liability.
I don't have insurance.
I don't do construction.
What if I hit a pipe?
What if I hit the electrical?
Like they're going to give you fifty
reasons why they can't make one hundred
and fifty dollars doing a grab bar.
You know,
so people like us do things like this.
I love anything that puts a dollar in
your pocket.
But I just people don't typically go into
physical therapy with the mindset of I
want to make money.
What's the best way for me to leverage
this knowledge, this, you know,
asset that I've purchased?
Yeah.
Yeah,
because you've been taught a way to
operate in a machine.
Like this is the matrix.
Like you've been taught that the only way
is just do this and you do this
and you do this and then something
happens.
And that works for some people.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But you have to understand you're going to
put an X and someone else is going
to sort of decide what Y is that
you get out of it.
If you're okay with that,
Lather, rinse, repeat.
If you're not,
either change and do everything
differently, which is what Dave does,
or do a little bit of that and
a little bit of this.
And that's your deciding factor.
Oh, I'm getting a text message.
I'll flick this on the screen.
This is gonna make both of you happy.
But someone just texted me another example
of doing this.
I'll put it on the screen when I
get the image.
Oh,
I thought you said someone's gonna text
you about the whole AP Day payment thing
and that they were mad about what I
was saying.
I don't think people are bad.
I think what you're saying is a very,
very common expectation versus reality
disconnect.
But what I've found is typically it's
usually not that off.
It's not that different.
I'm not saying you're wrong.
I mean,
I felt the same way for a long
time.
I joined APTA because I like being around
people and meeting people.
Plus, if you host a podcast,
it's good to be around people who have
different ideas.
Oh, this is, I've seen this before.
This is a grandpa.
So I don't need to put the image.
This looks like it's a Craigslist post.
And here's the guy on Craigslist.
It's just a grandpa.
He's grilling.
And the headline reads,
needed geriatric father figure for Bacchus
Barbecue, Spokane, Washington.
I'll be throwing a Bacchus Barbecue on
June.
We range in age from twenty one to
twenty six.
While most of us know how to operate
a grill,
none of us are prepared to fill the
role of barbecue dad.
That being said.
We need someone of a geriatric father
figure from six to eight.
Minimum of eighteen years experience as a
father.
It's like a job description.
A minimum of ten years drilling
experience.
An appreciation of nice cold beer and a
hot summer day.
We can't pay you in money.
All right, well, you lost me.
They basically want like a grill master
chef, but instead of that,
they're trying to change the name of the
role in hopes that they can pay less
or basically pay in vibes and beer.
But this is like what I thought this
was when I first looked at the post.
I thought it was like remember dad of
the Internet,
that guy with the YouTube channel who
teaches you how to, you know,
in ninety seconds.
Here's how to change a tire.
Here's how to tie a tie.
Here's how to check your air filter.
That's the thing.
But the IRL in the in real life
version of those things be those things.
Your parent like mine had a stroke.
And if I didn't have a degree in
physical therapy,
I wouldn't even know grab bars existed.
Or, hey, you have a tile shower?
And you're going to use those suction cup
grab bars?
Super hard no, man.
Because one hard pull and those tiles are
off the wall and your dad's on his
ass.
Like hard no.
I know that paying someone five hundred
bucks to come out and do those things
might seem expensive,
but what's one trip to the ER?
That math maths, right?
But like Tony said, well, I don't know.
What's the liability on that?
Here's why I like AI.
You can now go into that
And say,
how many people would I need to see
a week to make this in the black
and make it ROI positive?
I like it for idea generation and things
like that.
I tell you something cool.
I don't think you guys saw this yet.
I shared yesterday a post.
I always knew like putting a person in
the pool, you create pressure, you know,
to reduce swelling.
And so I started asking Gemini or chat
GPT, one of them.
You know,
how do you compare this to a TED
stocking, TED hose, compression hose?
And it gave me the numbers.
So I was like, all right,
give me a number, twelve inches deep, one,
two, three, four, five feet of water.
What is the meters of mercury compared to
a compression stocking?
And it was awesome.
Now,
I don't know if the numbers are accurate,
but it should be pretty objective.
Like, it should be reasonable.
So then I took a picture of myself
in the pool, front and back.
And I started like using it to generate
these comparisons.
Now you've got me thinking, I'm like, oh,
we could totally do like grab bar safety.
There are so many things that you could
do with this.
You could do the throw rugs.
Everybody needs to get rid of the throw
rugs.
Like all of that kind of stuff just
within seconds using the AI tools that
already exist.
Correct.
Yeah, Tony, your image was great.
I'm going to get it up on the
screen.
Super simple.
I mean,
what was the approximate generation time
for a prompt like that to get this
image that I'm about to show?
I mean, it was less than a minute.
Yeah.
I got to show you guys.
So we've been throwing the cat.
No, we can't.
But those are awesome.
What are they?
I don't even know.
Take a picture and put it.
Sorry, guys.
Animals.
Hey, wait,
get me on the screen real quick.
So we just threw the cast net.
All right.
Look at the fish.
I got a whole bunch of little,
I'm going to say jacks or something.
All right.
So now you're going to go put those
fish on ice and sell them on the
boardwalk or what?
That's right.
We've been catching stingray and whiting
all morning.
It's the stunningly simple ideas that are
the best.
Did you know popsicles were invented when
a kid left juice out in the winter?
Just left it outside and then the next
day was like, how's this work?
You know,
Velcro was invented when someone noticed
the little burrs that when you walk
through the woods and they stick to your
clothes and then look for an application
for that.
So the best ideas are just stunningly
simple and they're sitting out there.
So if you want to pull that picture
back up, we can discuss it real quick.
Here's the thing.
Everybody thinks like AI is going to give
us the answer,
but it's not if you don't have the
originating idea.
Like I had to come up with the
idea of, oh, let's compare Ted Ho's,
which nobody can get on,
with what the water can do in a
pool.
Now I related this to post-op total knee
because that's my niche.
And I got a bunch of posts about
when it's safe to get in the pool.
But this was very cool.
This speaks directly to your target
audience, which is why it's so great.
I'm bringing up a post right now that
I shared last week.
I just completely stole this.
I'll turn the music off so we don't
get in trouble.
I saw a post that was,
it was for people in the military and
it was like shape of sunglasses based on
what your job was in the military.
It was like pilots.
They wear the, you know, the Tom crew,
you know, and, and I was like,
that's kind of cool.
What's the PT alternative to that?
We're not really known for our sunglasses,
but we are known for our footwear.
So it was physical therapist specialties,
but make it shoes.
And it was like hokas,
and you can see the pediatric PTs there,
very colorful, inpatient,
going with the Crocs on sport mode.
It's quite literally that simple.
But the people, our colleagues,
myself included,
will sometimes overcomplicate it and think
it takes six weeks.
I'll give an example of someone who wanted
to create an in-person and virtual MBA for
the physical therapist.
And they were sixty pages deep on a
syllabus.
Sixty pages.
And they were structuring everything out.
I came in and it's easier to have
fresh eyes on something like this.
And I said,
sell it to ten people for a thousand
dollars.
If you can't sell it to ten people
for a thousand dollars,
stop writing the syllabus.
Sell it now.
Pre-sale it.
And if you can't, why bother doing that?
Why bother putting more effort into it?
You're never going to get that ROI back.
I thought it would have been like what
the TheraBand you use says about you as
a physical therapist.
Give me twenty minutes.
I'll get it back.
TRX.
Yeah.
But you can have as much fun with
this as you want.
The barrier to the limiting factor is
still the human and the person deciding if
it has value or not or how much
is still the human.
And you should get excited about that,
in my opinion.
Quick separate topic.
I don't know if you've seen on LinkedIn
the last week or two,
but I started to post some high level
posts around like, hey,
if you're a physical therapist,
occupational therapist, PTA,
would you ever consider relocating?
Because I've been doing all these DMs to
New York City area therapists.
And I'm thinking like, I mean,
I'm not getting...
that close, but I have sent out,
let's say in the last two years,
like I have sent out like hundreds of
messages.
So at some point I'm going to touch
most of the PTs that are on LinkedIn
or whatever that are in the New York
city area.
So then I was like,
you know what I saw,
or I was listening to like a physical
therapy podcast where another owner
had a new therapist that like relocated
from like another state.
And I was like, you know what?
We have a, we have a good deal.
Like we have a, we have like, yeah,
it's expensive to live here, but like, um,
we pay therapists well and we have a,
we have a good offering.
So I was like, I should,
I should start doing some posts where I
am like,
inviting or just opening up the
opportunity for someone to relocate to
come live here in what I call the
greatest city in the world.
A lot of people say that in New
York City.
Yes, it's expensive.
It's going to be tough to find an
apartment, all that type of stuff.
But all the great food, all that.
I know Tony and Jim,
you both have kind of talked about
different foods and different things over
the years.
And
that could be a drawing point as well
as like all the stuff that we have
here and i was like let me put
some money behind this post the the post
in the first several hours like or the
first day or whatever it got like random
people to comment or dm me or email
me like the resume and i was like
and it was completely organic and i was
like wow like this post
didn't even have like a call to action
uh but people are like reaching out right
so i'm like so i put like i
think like five hundred bucks or something
behind it with like a linkedin boost and
yeah we're getting more resumes and people
dming and emailing and uh this this guy
for example this guy in colorado's got
like twenty years of experience as a pt
and he's like asking for more information
so that's why i send the information i
send the i send the faq document
I send the two page elite clinician growth
opportunity, which is basically like,
here's the base salary.
Here's the weekly performance pay.
Here's your PTO, all that.
There's no surprises.
Everything is completely upfront.
You get that information first before we
ever speak, because I don't want,
I want to speak only after you've read
the information,
you know what you're going to get.
So it's just kind of like volume game,
if that makes sense right now.
And I'm like, wow.
Yeah.
I like just never occurred to me to
look outside of a licensed professional
therapist that's licensed in New York
state.
And I'm like, yeah,
of course I should be doing that.
And if other practices can get PTs to
relocate, I believe I can too.
Oh, people, I mean, look,
look at travel PT.
Like if you're saying, Hey,
we can do this.
If you,
have you ever wanted to live in New
York city?
Right.
What?
I wouldn't want someone to just do the
travel contracts because there's like and
then they're, then they bounce.
Right.
But like what I'm saying is like you
live in a place that like people would
like I would do that for a year
or I would check that out.
I would I would invest a year and
say, we'll do that.
Yeah.
Thirteen weeks.
You probably that would be hard to get
back to zero on that.
Right.
After all, you have invested in someone,
I'm guessing, Dave.
I mean, at the very least a year,
I mean, but in general,
like like my my one third,
one of my therapists from the two
therapists that I hired this year,
one told the other one.
uh,
like as long as I'm in New York
city, like I,
like I'm only going to work this type
of job or for,
for Dave or concierge payment.
It's like,
it doesn't make sense to ever like leave
this unless I left New York city that
like that.
I heard that and that like made my
month obviously.
Right.
So it's like, okay,
I'm getting feedback from my therapist
that they're happy with the caseload,
the medical record.
It's not too bad with,
it's very easy to cite notes.
And
what they make and they can,
there's so much flexibility, right?
So I'm getting that.
And then that's obviously helping me with
like refining the offer and attracting
more candidates and therapists in the
future.
So not to change subject,
but something I don't know if you guys
discussed last week when I was out,
Jimmy is at prompt headquarters.
Have there been any formal announcements
about this?
Yeah, we dropped it on LinkedIn,
and I think – Right now.
Nobody's on LinkedIn.
There's a lot of people on LinkedIn now.
Since Twitter sort of became a cesspool,
you guys aren't on LinkedIn.
So, yeah.
So I work for Prompt now.
I feel we're talking about myself.
That's why I always tell people, like,
sell yourself.
So –
Everybody's known about Prompt for a long
time.
I think people have a pretty good feel
on them.
I think they've got a pretty positive,
you know,
essentially the profession has a pretty
good positive outlook on Prompt.
I'm not, I want to be very clear.
I don't sell anything.
I've tried to be a salesperson before.
I don't know why.
I wish I could be good at it
because it's very lucrative, but I'm not.
So I get to do,
the job title is director of strategic,
manager of,
Strategery.
Strategic Innovation Manager.
What does that mean?
I don't know.
We're going to figure it out.
They made up a job for me.
We made up a job together that put
my skills together with what Prompt was
looking for,
which is go to events like we were
just talking about with APTA.
And how can you lead with a give
first?
So my job will be like liaising with
APTA state chapters and academies,
universities, clinics.
These are my people.
And everybody knows me as a guy.
I'm not really the hard sell guy.
I just get to sing a song of
an organization that's trying to make it
better for people who are in this
profession.
I did ask that question the other day.
Would you do you call it the physical
therapy industry or industry or physical
therapy profession?
Industry makes me cringe.
Uh, so they're, uh,
they're the business partner for,
for PT clinics and well, not,
I shouldn't just say PT,
but PTOT speech chiropractors.
Um, so that's what I get to do.
So that's why I'm sitting here with the
logo behind me.
Well,
really I'm just in the office today and
this is their podcast studio,
which should also make you excited.
The fact that I work at a place
that has their own podcast studio.
Well, congratulations.
Thanks.
What else do we have on the docket?
I don't know.
I literally got back from Portland last
night at ten p.m.,
got up at five a.m.
to get on a train to Hoboken.
So I'm a little I am wired awake.
I guess by noon I'll be completely
crashing and burnt.
But I'm here now.
Let me I sent you guys I don't
know if you replied to it,
but I sent a screenshot or a link
to the the one on one basketball like
street basketball video on Instagram.
And it had two hundred and fifty five
million views.
And I sent it to you guys and
I said, have you ever seen.
a short or a real or whatever with
that many views.
I clicked into this guy's account.
Um, MK Matt.
And it's like a Greek glass name,
but he's like, he's pretty good.
And it's like a very specific rules with
like one-on-one basketball.
Like if,
like if I'm playing Tony and if I
shoot and I missed the ball,
like the game, it stops for a second.
Like Tony now gets the ball.
Like there's no, there's no like,
there's no rebounds and like you're
continuing to fight for the ball.
So there's like very specific like
streetball rules.
And he wears like a microphone and he's
got like a lapel mic and he's all
social media stuff.
He's got like three million followers.
And then he goes to different countries.
What is the league called?
No, it just, it's just this dude.
It's just this dude.
I sent Matt, I don't know, Matt K,
but it's like a Greek last name.
But I saw the,
I saw one of his videos and I
thought it was pretty good from like the,
like,
don't like the newsfeed or what like the
the for you page or whatever on instagram
and it had like millions of views yeah
this this this video here uh where it's
it gets kind of you know like combative
and it's like great content it's like very
it's not really much editing and it's like
this guy gets a ton of people at
every like a crowds of people because he
does you know like youtube and social
media video content
and he goes to different cities and he
calls out like their best player.
And some,
like most of the time this guy wins,
sometimes he loses.
Um, but they get like pretty physical,
almost like, you know, like,
like jail basketball.
Yeah.
You have to watch.
Cause it's like when a fight breaks out,
like it's in our nature, man,
you don't need to explain to people while,
when someone yells fight in high school,
the world stops.
Yeah,
but I kicked it over to you guys
because I was like,
I've never seen two hundred fifty five
million views on one Instagram reel.
And the guy's got three million followers.
I never even heard of him.
And it's just crazy.
And so.
just to dissect it real quick do you
think it's just because that many views
yes it's yes there's like they're smack
talk you know all that type of stuff
and then also it's like you don't know
what's going to happen right so that kind
of results in more people watching it to
the end of the video or more people
watching in general and sharing it i
watched it when you shared it and i
was waiting for does this end in a
brawl because these dudes were not
cordial like they're like like they are
right next to a fight like one dude's
like you know you know headlocking this
guy and it's basketball uh that's a reason
it's also showing a score like every time
they score a point that's too nothing
right you want to see how it ends
does it end in a fight which dude
wins which i mean they're both jackasses
right you don't know which guy to root
for
It's shared by two accounts.
This guy, the guy who shared it,
Matt Kalaptis,
it's got three point three million
followers.
And it was also shared with on fire
streetball Brazil.
They have two hundred thirty thousand
followers.
So the answer is all those reasons.
All those reasons are contributing factors
as to why this thing spreads.
Right.
Dry climate.
Windy.
Forest fire,
like it would have been a small fire,
but because it got real windy or it
was just a slow news day or and
then you see eleven million likes and
sixty eight thousand comments,
one hundred and fifty thousand reshares,
almost one hundred,
almost a million cents.
So you start to see all those different
things come together for that.
Yeah,
I've never seen those kinds of numbers,
but I haven't really been looking for it.
But I think this is the kind of
stuff that we could take lessons from.
Like when you mentioned the score up on
the screen, I was like, oh,
I should totally put like the range of
motion for the knee flexion as we're going
through different positions.
to measure range of motion, you know,
like there are these elements.
Now I did, yeah, I did see a,
like a massage therapy video where they
used AI to create a video that shows
somebody massaging what they were calling
a knot in the muscle.
And it was kind of gross.
It was like a nasty illustration,
but I was like, oh,
I could totally use that.
So then I made one showing massage,
like a thumb on an IT band.
Then,
then it goes into like translucent skin
and the fascia below.
It got a hundred thousand views in the
first day.
I haven't checked it today, but I'm like,
yeah.
So,
so these are the inspirations that I try
to pull from to be like, all right,
how do I model this to improve my
reach?
Right.
It's promising a payoff.
Love or hate chiropractor videos that say
biggest pop ever, dot, dot, dot,
wait for it.
Number one, you're gaming the algorithm.
What I mean by that is you're hooking
that human's brain that something's going
to happen.
And if you just give me one more
second and one more second and one more
second, you're going to get a payoff.
algorithm or the platform looks at that
like this is compelling content i don't
know anything about it but people watch
longer than usual so there's a promise for
payoff so you could easily do a video
where you have patient a walk in and
say well we're six weeks post your knee
replacement will we get to today there's a
reason a drum roll exists it's to build
tension for the climax and the payoff
So you could easily steal that little
trick from the streetball video with the
score.
Who will win?
Yeah.
Yeah,
there's psychological principles at play.
The outcome is unclear.
You also need to make it super simple.
The rules require no explanation.
Like if I were going to do,
if I were going to create a new
Instagram account tomorrow for a sport,
I would do musical chairs with drunk
adults.
i'd say welcome to musical chairs with
drunk adults you now know and i would
and the video would start with the crash
right with the woman about to crash oh
my god you're going to give away the
ending yes because you want to see how
it got there you got b you now
need a and it makes you watch more
of the video which is what you want
the algorithm the algorithm wants you to
do yeah i want to go back to
one of the first things we talked about
is how is your youth
theater group getting fifty K for set
design.
I want to know their fundraiser is because
that person needs a raise.
And they get donations from Money Man,
Tony Meritato and other folks in the area.
We do.
We donate talents more than treasure.
But no, I like seriously,
these kids are phenomenal.
They're incredible.
So, you know,
you sell tickets and even within this,
the game that they refuse to play is
If you get more little kids on the
cast,
you're going to get more grandparents,
more aunts and uncles.
You're going to get more family members.
You go to sporting events.
Like Dave, in another year or two,
he starts hitting the T-ball circuit.
Everybody in Dave's family is going to
come to see his son.
By the time his son is like fifteen,
sixteen,
you're lucky if mom and dad show up.
I was going to say,
because I'm in my thirties playing weekend
baseball and no one shows up.
Exactly.
So like even with this theater stuff,
you know, we're like, look, guys,
go more junior shows,
get more little ones in the cast.
They do anything.
I think it's like six years old is
the youngest.
My kid started at age six.
He's seventeen now.
you age out once you're out of high
school.
But I'm like,
the more little kids you have,
the more money you make,
the more tickets you sell.
And we sell out thousand,
fifteen hundred seat theaters.
Wow.
Yeah, pretty consistently.
And like I said,
they do three shows a year.
But my wife has been doing the social
media.
But, you know,
it's like pulling teeth because she's the
only one that really is trying to bring
technology into the group.
They're still using paper forms.
They're still, you know, everybody,
even though you've been in the group for
a decade,
you still have to fill out a new
release.
You still have to fill out new paperwork.
You still have to handwrite your address
instead of a simple Google form.
I have an update within show.
Grandpa, the mailbox guy,
has texted me back.
We've got a text back.
Tony was right.
Two hundred eighty bucks is the
installation or he'll go to the store and
buy everything.
He's talking about post mailbox cement,
everything for three twenty.
So three twenty is the all in price.
Two eighty is just the doing it for
you.
Notice what he didn't say in this ad.
How many dollars an hour he's offering to
do this for?
Why?
I don't care how,
if you could do it in twenty eight
minutes, God bless you.
If it takes you all day,
I also don't care.
I have put a mailbox in an hour.
right?
You're going to dig the hole.
You're going to square, you know,
squaring everything up.
You're going to wait, you know,
waiting for it to cure is also the
different part of it.
But as long as it's, uh,
as long as it's done, right.
So three hundred and twenty bucks,
I would say I don't,
I would have to do it better.
I don't want to start saying how much
a post in a mailbox costs.
I could research that.
I don't know.
Mailbox, eighty bucks post, eighty bucks.
I don't know.
Eighty bucks.
So you're looking at three hundred and
twenty bucks.
Oh, look at that.
So let's say cost is one hundred and
sixty and you're charging three twenty.
Your margin is fifty percent.
Congratulations.
You just paid yourself one hundred and
sixty bucks an hour.
Let's say you have to go to Home
Depot.
One hundred and twenty bucks an hour.
I like that business because you can do
six in a day if you're if the
top of the funnel is working.
If you can get a bunch of people
in a geographic area to know you as
grandpa, the mailbox guy.
Well, again,
it's hard to make that comparison of
making a post that's a physical object
versus a physical therapist helping
someone like Jimmy,
a weekend ice hockey player who has hip
pain.
And then it's like, well,
I don't know how long it's going to
take, right?
So that's why it's more important to just
like,
especially in the self-pay world for us,
it's like really the phone call for Jimmy
would be like, hey,
we're really just selling that first
visit.
Cause in that first visit is like the
evaluation, the concert,
we're going to look how you,
we're going to watch how you move your
posture.
We're going to check your range of motion,
your strength, all that.
Then we're going to lay out a plan,
give you some one or two exercises or
drills to do on your own.
And at the end of that visit,
we're going to present the plan of care.
But either way,
I agree that we're not saying here's what,
you know, here's what we charge per hour.
Yeah.
Visit hour ambiguous.
It feels transactional.
Grandpa,
the mailbox guy says you're gonna have the
nicest mailbox in the block on the block.
just give me this and walk away and
I'll solve it for you.
The thing is,
I think there are certain things that have
benchmark pricing in your head.
I don't know about you guys.
If I'm thinking about a new mailbox in
front of my house,
I'm thinking five hundred dollars or less.
It's a no, no brainer, no thought.
Just do it.
If if.
I'm trying to think of what is like
the no brainer for physical therapy.
I do think it's the one-time visit.
Yeah.
One-time visit.
I'm calling,
let me get this taken care of today.
Tell me what to do.
Give me the evaluation.
Give me the home program and we're done.
And again,
I'm kind of thinking that five hundred
dollar price point has always been in my
head for something like that.
it's just a one time in and out,
get it done.
And, you know, DC.
Yeah.
But then if you want the accountability,
right, if you want the handholding,
if you want the oversight,
if this is something that keeps coming up
every year, every couple of years,
and if you're looking to actually address
it,
now you'd have to invest more money and
time for the full plan of care.
Either way,
you should kind of let them know at
that first visit, here's the plan of care.
Here's the game plan that we would do.
You could certainly do some of this on
your own.
If they ask for five or ten or
whatever exercises or give me exercises
that I could progressively do over the
next six weeks or six months, it's like,
no, that's what we would do together.
So that would be a separate dollar amount.
Yep.
This –
This goes into what I shared or tagged
you guys on yesterday, I think.
Let's close the show with this topic.
Somebody was saying,
what happens if a physical therapist calls
in sick the day of or the night
before?
What do you do with that person's
scheduled appointments?
Now, before I chime in,
Dave is probably the best option.
In your business model today,
if one of your guys gets sick,
what are you doing?
then the patients are not seen because
everyone has like their own one-on-one
patients yeah i mean maybe maybe i'll
maybe i'll go out but like some days
i'm i'm booked with other stuff right so
like could i be the safety net for
some of my therapists for coverage yeah i
totally could i might be available i might
not be um if they are ill or
uh unable to go see their patients then
we're gonna try to just move those
patients to another day um
partly because we're partly mobile,
also with office visits.
But every patient is booked with one
particular therapist at that time slot.
So it's challenging for another therapist
to kind of absorb that compared to in
a network practice,
especially if it's brick and mortar.
I believe it's easier for a therapist to
kind of absorb some of that.
And maybe patients,
they get the expectation of maybe you're
not going to get as much care
with like if tony is absorbing his
jeremy's patients then you're going to
probably get a little less treatment or
whatever but we could still you know
continue your plan and all that there were
there were some good comments in that post
because some someone said like well you
signed up for two visits a week not
two visits a week with john and it's
like well yeah but at the same time
it's like it depends like are you paying
a twenty dollar copay and respectfully
you might not care as much who treats
you.
Like, yeah.
But then if you're paying three fifty a
visit,
you kind of have some higher expectations
about who you're seeing and don't want to
just be seen by someone random,
even just for today.
So there's challenges depending, I think,
on insurance and payment and all that.
And also, again,
expectations in the model that Tony has
versus the model that I have.
And Tony would be able to navigate this
way better than us and for us probably
be more lost revenue for that day.
I think it's a great post.
I shared that screenshot of that post with
the prompt social media team.
And I was like,
do you guys ask questions like this to
get, cause there's no right answer.
There's the right answer for you.
But a lot of times the goal of
sharing that post is someone shares a
solution that you've never thought of that
you're like, that would be a good option.
My head goes to friends that have brick
and mortar clinics,
which would be the problem is time and
effort to give that person a choice and
then route that choice the right way.
That's an automation technology thing.
So if you're like Jimmy's out.
Fire a text message to every one of
Jimmy's patients and give them a decision
tree.
Do you want to reschedule?
That leads to a reschedule within seventy
two hours or whatever.
Or I want to keep the same time.
Which which clinician do you want to see
next?
These two or I don't care or like
have fun with it.
Surprise me like spin the wheel.
Right.
Like make it fun.
Or I want to wait for Jimmy next
week.
So that's simple.
But if you set it up and you
know that that's going to happen, guys,
that's going to happen.
So putting time and effort before the
morning of that happening is worth its
weight because you walk away with a good
experience.
We just did something like this because
Jeremy was out of town for a week.
Now I'm out of town for a week.
There are patients who only want to see
me.
There are patients who don't care who they
see, right?
So we're still small enough that we don't
have to systematize it to the point that
everybody has to follow the same rules no
matter what.
That's the advantage of being a small
practice versus being a ten location
clinic.
Where I think this gets really
interesting, especially for a listener,
is beyond, you know,
when it's in the clinic,
it's look at who you're hiring.
Is the person you're hiring somebody who
gets sick a lot?
Because there have been people we've hired
in the past who are like freaking sick
every month.
And they're calling out sick.
They have no guilt.
They have no consciousness about calling
out sick.
Then there are people who will come into
the clinic like you want to send that
worker home because they, you know,
are obviously like in horrible shape.
Right.
So one is who am I actually hiring?
What is this person's work ethic and what
are they like?
What's their constitution?
Two is, you know,
what is the business that I've built?
Have I built a business that says, hey,
this is your therapist and only your
therapist.
And if I'm selling that,
am I charging for the added value of
that like Dave does?
um and then who are the clients if
i'm treating a bunch of chronic pain
highly complex individuals who need
specialized care who build these
relationships with therapists i'm likely
to be building a business that's very
sticky patients don't just leave but on
the flip side i'm paying the price because
I'm shocked to hear Dave lets a full
day of revenue go,
but like a lot of us can't afford
to lose a full day of revenue.
Even if you're deferring that revenue down
the road,
if you're not opening an extra day on
Saturday, Sunday,
like how are you giving up, you know,
a thousand or a ten thousand dollar day?
That's crazy.
So I think we have to take three
steps deeper
To first look at who you're hiring,
then look at the system you're hiring that
person into.
Then, like Jimmy said,
develop the solution to solve the problem.
It could be a technology solution where
immediately at, you know,
eleven o'clock the night before when your
therapist says, hey, I can't make it.
It automates a text that goes out to
the future patients to say, hey,
this is what's going on.
I don't know,
but I don't think people are thinking
about that when you're sitting there
saying, I hate my job.
I hate my life.
I'm going to go start my own practice
so I can work for myself.
Yeah.
I have to run.
I think we need to spend a little
bit more time on this topic maybe next
time or in the next couple episodes,
because there were more comments that I
agreed with and disagreed with with that
post.
So there's there's some more, I think,
to get into.
Yeah.
But yeah,
it certainly depends on the practice.
It depends on the team you're hiring.
I agree with you, Tony.
It depends on your patients and clientele,
their expectations.
I think a little bit also, again,
with the payer,
like is it insurance or versus out of
pocket?
There's different expectations there.
For my parting shot,
we kind of bounced around with different
topics.
But I always like just the simple focus
on expectations, right?
So whether it's the mailbox,
here's how much it is for this solution
for this result and how much it is
very clear and just managing my
expectations with that example versus even
what we're talking about now with like
cancels and if you have a therapist that's
that's sick,
what are the expectations around that?
So that's my parting shot for today.
Jimmy,
I would say keep it stunningly simple.
Keep it as simple as possible.
Understand what business you're.
I mean,
it's the same damn parting shot every
time, but keep it as simple as possible.
This few point points is failure.
And I say, guys, guys,
let's congratulate Jimmy on his new
venture.
Looking forward to seeing it.
We'll catch you guys Thursday at eight
thirty Eastern.
See you guys.
That's it.
We're out.
What the hell are you doing?
Tony Maritano on YouTube at Total Therapy
Solution.
Find Dave Kittle at
conciergepainrelief.com and on YouTube at
The Dave Kittle Show.
And follow Jimmy McKay at PT Podcasts on
YouTube, the socials,
and wherever you binge podcasts you
pretend are for CEUs.
And hey, just a reminder,
none of this was for advice.
This was for entertainment only.
Our lawyers say that counts.
Thanks, Keith.