WEBVTT 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:03.491 But that's the idea. 00:00:03.591 --> 00:00:12.435 All right, appreciate you, The Voice Guy. 00:00:12.654 --> 00:00:14.416 I want to say thanks to Empower EMR. 00:00:14.435 --> 00:00:15.817 If your clinic's stuck on an EMR that 00:00:15.856 --> 00:00:17.838 slows you down, Empower gives you speed, 00:00:17.878 --> 00:00:18.597 clean workflows, 00:00:18.617 --> 00:00:20.379 and features PTs actually ask for. 00:00:20.439 --> 00:00:22.000 Better notes, faster documentation, 00:00:22.821 --> 00:00:23.861 smoother operations, 00:00:24.041 --> 00:00:25.942 all wrapped up in customer support that 00:00:26.021 --> 00:00:26.922 doesn't ghost you. 00:00:27.623 --> 00:00:28.864 Upgrade your clinic's brain, 00:00:29.004 --> 00:00:30.603 that's what EMR really is, right? 00:00:30.923 --> 00:00:33.744 With Empower EMR, that's empoweremr.com, 00:00:33.905 --> 00:00:36.686 empoweremr.com. 00:00:36.765 --> 00:00:38.426 Today we're asking hard questions. 00:00:39.067 --> 00:00:40.548 Why are physical therapists, 00:00:40.787 --> 00:00:42.929 the supposed experts in human movement, 00:00:43.268 --> 00:00:45.530 still describing biomechanics like it's... 00:00:46.310 --> 00:00:47.930 It's a great year, 00:00:47.970 --> 00:00:49.490 but it's still a long time ago. 00:00:50.371 --> 00:00:50.671 Here, 00:00:50.792 --> 00:00:53.633 while AI is quantifying everything... 00:00:54.533 --> 00:00:57.015 While trainers are capturing slow motion 00:00:57.055 --> 00:00:59.417 video, while patients are expecting data, 00:00:59.997 --> 00:01:02.539 most PTs are still writing knee valgus 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:03.941 noted at sixty degrees. 00:01:04.822 --> 00:01:06.763 Our guests today believe that if we want 00:01:06.802 --> 00:01:08.825 to defend our space in musculoskeletal 00:01:08.844 --> 00:01:09.084 care, 00:01:09.385 --> 00:01:12.447 we need to measure what we claim to 00:01:12.486 --> 00:01:14.769 master. 00:01:14.789 --> 00:01:14.989 Today, 00:01:15.009 --> 00:01:15.890 they're representing one of the most 00:01:16.010 --> 00:01:18.150 interesting tools in movement assessment 00:01:18.251 --> 00:01:18.852 right now. 00:01:19.292 --> 00:01:20.513 Let's bring our guests today, 00:01:20.873 --> 00:01:21.933 Maka and Dan. 00:01:22.233 --> 00:01:22.834 Welcome to the show. 00:01:23.987 --> 00:01:24.388 Thank you. 00:01:24.408 --> 00:01:25.088 Good to see you, Jimmy. 00:01:25.509 --> 00:01:26.308 How was the intro? 00:01:26.328 --> 00:01:27.870 Did I sort of capture like the goal 00:01:27.909 --> 00:01:29.131 of what we want to talk about today? 00:01:29.150 --> 00:01:29.251 Like, 00:01:29.271 --> 00:01:31.611 was I close or I'm just a podcast 00:01:31.632 --> 00:01:31.792 host. 00:01:31.811 --> 00:01:32.552 What do you think, Maka? 00:01:32.572 --> 00:01:33.453 Nailed it. 00:01:34.375 --> 00:01:35.194 All right. 00:01:35.734 --> 00:01:36.816 So let's start with this. 00:01:37.156 --> 00:01:40.036 What changed about the way movement is 00:01:40.296 --> 00:01:42.936 valued in our profession? 00:01:43.656 --> 00:01:44.656 Let me rephrase this. 00:01:45.477 --> 00:01:46.837 How it's valued just not in our 00:01:46.878 --> 00:01:47.438 profession, 00:01:47.477 --> 00:01:49.658 but even outside our profession and with 00:01:49.677 --> 00:01:51.658 our patients and with the people that we 00:01:51.697 --> 00:01:52.278 interact with, 00:01:52.379 --> 00:01:54.838 other professionals or sometimes the dirty 00:01:54.858 --> 00:01:56.659 word, payers. 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:58.640 What's changed about the way movement is 00:01:58.680 --> 00:01:59.180 valued? 00:02:01.021 --> 00:02:01.962 Well, I'll start off. 00:02:03.305 --> 00:02:04.466 I don't know that anything has changed so 00:02:04.507 --> 00:02:04.686 much, 00:02:04.727 --> 00:02:08.111 but I think there's a very deep interest 00:02:08.353 --> 00:02:10.256 in understanding biomechanics, 00:02:10.697 --> 00:02:11.418 and a lot of people 00:02:13.176 --> 00:02:15.899 attest to understanding biomechanics and 00:02:15.959 --> 00:02:16.759 talk about it a lot, 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:18.981 but can't really quantify it. 00:02:19.201 --> 00:02:22.063 And I think sort of like made up 00:02:22.104 --> 00:02:24.846 terms for describing some of the things 00:02:24.866 --> 00:02:25.485 that they see. 00:02:26.306 --> 00:02:27.007 And of course, it's like, 00:02:27.287 --> 00:02:28.907 it's very challenging. 00:02:28.929 --> 00:02:30.149 I've been a PT for three years. 00:02:31.710 --> 00:02:33.070 And it's still, 00:02:33.472 --> 00:02:35.612 it's still very challenging to notice 00:02:35.652 --> 00:02:37.955 biomechanical faults or defects or 00:02:38.115 --> 00:02:39.496 asymmetries with the naked eye. 00:02:40.491 --> 00:02:42.193 And then how to describe them, right? 00:02:42.213 --> 00:02:42.794 Like how would you do, 00:02:42.834 --> 00:02:44.876 like describing them from one clinician to 00:02:44.936 --> 00:02:46.638 another is probably vastly different. 00:02:46.737 --> 00:02:48.058 Macca, how would you answer that question? 00:02:48.500 --> 00:02:49.621 How have things sort of changed? 00:02:50.137 --> 00:02:52.699 I think the competition has changed, 00:02:52.758 --> 00:02:53.258 honestly. 00:02:53.318 --> 00:02:54.740 So from PT to PT. 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:56.920 So parents sending their kids in, 00:02:57.262 --> 00:02:58.701 you're trying to figure out which clinic 00:02:58.722 --> 00:02:59.802 you'd like to go to. 00:02:59.902 --> 00:03:02.104 So I think who's going to assess the 00:03:02.145 --> 00:03:03.164 mechanics correctly, 00:03:03.185 --> 00:03:04.466 who's going to assess it differently. 00:03:04.566 --> 00:03:06.026 So I think that's the biggest thing that's 00:03:06.046 --> 00:03:06.507 changed. 00:03:06.987 --> 00:03:08.808 I think we know that valgus is bad. 00:03:08.929 --> 00:03:10.129 Too much valgus is bad. 00:03:10.650 --> 00:03:12.431 But I think we need to understand, like, 00:03:12.830 --> 00:03:14.793 how do you know if it's too much 00:03:14.872 --> 00:03:15.293 valgus? 00:03:15.453 --> 00:03:16.633 So I think it's changed. 00:03:17.033 --> 00:03:19.254 I just know I was just feeling right 00:03:19.275 --> 00:03:21.635 in a profession where it's not the 00:03:21.656 --> 00:03:22.537 profession where we'd never, 00:03:22.776 --> 00:03:24.978 that would never be okay somewhere else. 00:03:25.277 --> 00:03:26.198 So let's call this out. 00:03:26.337 --> 00:03:26.478 Are, 00:03:26.739 --> 00:03:28.818 are physical therapists too comfortable 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:31.901 just sort of eyeballing biomechanics? 00:03:32.920 --> 00:03:34.262 I think some are comfortable. 00:03:34.342 --> 00:03:36.122 I think some are really busy too. 00:03:38.584 --> 00:03:40.604 I'll add to that, that, um, 00:03:40.664 --> 00:03:42.066 some are very comfortable with it. 00:03:42.346 --> 00:03:42.425 Um, 00:03:43.348 --> 00:03:44.688 I've been a PT for thirty years. 00:03:45.250 --> 00:03:45.710 And by the way, 00:03:46.510 --> 00:03:49.073 I don't know that I'm always accurate. 00:03:49.612 --> 00:03:49.794 Right. 00:03:50.133 --> 00:03:51.275 But I am comfortable with it. 00:03:51.335 --> 00:03:52.536 I think I know what I'm talking about 00:03:52.575 --> 00:03:54.978 when I see a patient with excessive valgus 00:03:55.018 --> 00:03:55.739 or whatever it may be. 00:03:57.139 --> 00:03:59.002 But I also think that less experienced PTs 00:03:59.122 --> 00:04:01.764 are not very comfortable with it and kind 00:04:01.804 --> 00:04:04.325 of feel like they're guessing a lot. 00:04:04.445 --> 00:04:04.686 Right. 00:04:04.725 --> 00:04:05.586 And so what do we do? 00:04:05.606 --> 00:04:06.768 The question is, like, 00:04:06.807 --> 00:04:07.688 what do we do about it? 00:04:07.709 --> 00:04:09.610 So when we add quantifiable data 00:04:10.628 --> 00:04:13.235 to movement, what changes? 00:04:13.717 --> 00:04:15.061 What changes clinically? 00:04:16.324 --> 00:04:16.985 What changes? 00:04:17.005 --> 00:04:17.908 I'll stop there. 00:04:17.949 --> 00:04:19.031 What changes when you can actually 00:04:19.050 --> 00:04:19.593 quantify it? 00:04:20.956 --> 00:04:22.315 I think your rapport with the patient 00:04:22.336 --> 00:04:23.576 changes, definitely. 00:04:23.956 --> 00:04:25.557 So being able to explain to them, 00:04:25.637 --> 00:04:26.656 this is too much valgus, 00:04:26.677 --> 00:04:28.117 show them too much valgus, 00:04:28.177 --> 00:04:29.038 speed of valgus. 00:04:29.617 --> 00:04:31.098 I think your direction of how you're 00:04:31.158 --> 00:04:33.057 rehabbing someone changes too in what 00:04:33.077 --> 00:04:33.519 phase. 00:04:33.658 --> 00:04:35.119 So is it too much valgus during the 00:04:35.158 --> 00:04:35.478 loading? 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:36.918 Is it too much valgus during the landing? 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:38.160 That's definitely going to change the way 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:40.639 that I'm doing some rehab. 00:04:40.699 --> 00:04:41.459 I'm an athletic trainer. 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:42.819 I'm not a physical therapist. 00:04:43.161 --> 00:04:45.880 I've worked with various ranges of 00:04:45.961 --> 00:04:46.701 population, 00:04:46.781 --> 00:04:50.002 but I think that's what changes a lot. 00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:55.033 Um, Jimmy, what was your question again? 00:04:55.093 --> 00:04:55.392 Sorry. 00:04:55.692 --> 00:04:56.093 Yeah. 00:04:56.113 --> 00:04:56.915 So, so sort of like what, 00:04:57.074 --> 00:04:59.016 what changes clinically when we can 00:04:59.156 --> 00:05:01.098 actually add quantifiable data, 00:05:01.119 --> 00:05:02.420 like when we can actually say, 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:05.021 this is the number and I can do 00:05:05.062 --> 00:05:06.463 it and I can get to that number 00:05:06.504 --> 00:05:08.466 reliably and confidently. 00:05:09.177 --> 00:05:09.538 Totally. 00:05:09.997 --> 00:05:13.641 Well, I agree with what Maka said. 00:05:13.781 --> 00:05:15.221 In addition, first of all, 00:05:15.442 --> 00:05:16.882 educating patients is huge. 00:05:16.963 --> 00:05:19.163 I mean, when you can show patients, 00:05:19.223 --> 00:05:20.805 this is what's normal and this is what 00:05:20.845 --> 00:05:21.384 you're doing. 00:05:22.225 --> 00:05:24.687 Now we have goals and objectives for them 00:05:24.747 --> 00:05:25.406 to, you know, 00:05:25.447 --> 00:05:27.108 targets for them to get to, 00:05:27.869 --> 00:05:30.790 but also documentation for standardization 00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:31.911 of documentation, right? 00:05:32.211 --> 00:05:34.473 We're all using the same tools to measure 00:05:34.512 --> 00:05:36.314 things as opposed to our own 00:05:37.233 --> 00:05:39.355 Different set of eyes and documentation 00:05:39.375 --> 00:05:41.997 for insurance companies being able to 00:05:42.076 --> 00:05:45.639 prove that a patient needs more therapy or 00:05:45.658 --> 00:05:46.538 has achieved their goals, 00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:48.680 whatever it may be. 00:05:48.699 --> 00:05:49.221 Quantifying. 00:05:49.863 --> 00:05:50.244 Yeah, 00:05:50.584 --> 00:05:52.146 I was going to guess things like patient 00:05:52.165 --> 00:05:53.507 buy-in, which was mentioned, 00:05:53.586 --> 00:05:55.108 better documentation mentioned, 00:05:55.228 --> 00:05:57.569 better communication with other healthcare 00:05:57.588 --> 00:05:58.110 professionals, 00:05:58.129 --> 00:06:00.732 with PTs to athletic trainers or to MDs 00:06:00.951 --> 00:06:02.632 or to insurance companies. 00:06:02.733 --> 00:06:03.273 And also, 00:06:03.574 --> 00:06:05.235 I would imagine better outcomes tracking, 00:06:05.675 --> 00:06:06.995 like changing over time. 00:06:07.016 --> 00:06:09.458 I remember when I was in clinic, 00:06:09.517 --> 00:06:11.738 measuring one thing on the same person, 00:06:11.798 --> 00:06:14.261 twenty minutes later, felt different. 00:06:15.987 --> 00:06:16.127 Yeah, 00:06:16.146 --> 00:06:17.891 you open up your joint a little bit. 00:06:17.951 --> 00:06:19.935 You activate some muscles a little bit. 00:06:20.014 --> 00:06:21.156 It may change quite a bit. 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:23.500 I think the, 00:06:23.540 --> 00:06:25.560 so you talk about the relationship or like 00:06:25.581 --> 00:06:27.822 the communication from, you know, 00:06:27.922 --> 00:06:29.223 the athletic trainer to the PT, 00:06:29.242 --> 00:06:31.163 the PT to the surgeon, 00:06:31.884 --> 00:06:36.586 that having substantial objective data is 00:06:36.666 --> 00:06:38.668 so helpful with that communication because 00:06:38.687 --> 00:06:40.608 it's not just like my eye looking at 00:06:40.629 --> 00:06:40.869 this. 00:06:40.949 --> 00:06:42.149 It's like factually, 00:06:42.209 --> 00:06:44.331 this is where this person is in their 00:06:44.531 --> 00:06:45.310 state of rehab. 00:06:45.471 --> 00:06:46.672 I think sports medicine is 00:06:47.072 --> 00:06:47.773 return to play. 00:06:47.833 --> 00:06:51.117 So I will always communicate to the 00:06:51.137 --> 00:06:52.257 strength and conditioning coach, 00:06:52.278 --> 00:06:55.060 the athletic trainer, the PT, the surgeon, 00:06:55.442 --> 00:06:56.523 and then the parent too. 00:06:56.583 --> 00:06:57.423 So it holds that, 00:06:58.125 --> 00:07:00.146 it holds the clinician accountable, 00:07:00.206 --> 00:07:01.208 the athlete accountable, 00:07:01.247 --> 00:07:03.449 and then gen pop patients accountable as 00:07:03.490 --> 00:07:03.711 well. 00:07:04.247 --> 00:07:04.466 Yeah, 00:07:04.526 --> 00:07:06.487 I remember I was a swim coach for 00:07:06.528 --> 00:07:08.007 kids when I was in PT school and 00:07:08.528 --> 00:07:11.608 I was using like phone apps, right? 00:07:11.629 --> 00:07:12.769 That would allow me to put like sort 00:07:12.788 --> 00:07:15.629 of like a rudimentary goniometer on the 00:07:15.689 --> 00:07:17.129 screen quickly, easily. 00:07:17.511 --> 00:07:18.810 And when, you know, teaching a kid like, 00:07:18.831 --> 00:07:19.951 I need you to bend your elbow. 00:07:20.170 --> 00:07:20.591 I am. 00:07:20.911 --> 00:07:21.992 And me to say like, okay, 00:07:22.052 --> 00:07:23.451 look at your brother and let me show 00:07:23.471 --> 00:07:25.552 you this angle and yours is this and 00:07:25.572 --> 00:07:26.853 that number is larger than that one. 00:07:27.233 --> 00:07:28.132 I need you to give me a bigger 00:07:28.233 --> 00:07:30.074 number and I could show them side by 00:07:30.173 --> 00:07:30.555 side. 00:07:31.055 --> 00:07:32.935 That changed understanding, 00:07:33.016 --> 00:07:34.516 which is simple but not easy. 00:07:35.257 --> 00:07:36.978 And the competitive nature to you're like, 00:07:37.038 --> 00:07:39.939 OK, yeah, elbow a little bit further, 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:41.279 a little bit more drive, 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:42.899 a little bit more awareness. 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:45.862 So a real specific use case that we 00:07:45.882 --> 00:07:47.642 have is we call the AMI, 00:07:47.762 --> 00:07:49.504 which was developed by physical therapist 00:07:49.543 --> 00:07:50.163 Trent Nestler. 00:07:50.744 --> 00:07:51.543 Michael, 00:07:51.564 --> 00:07:52.305 you want to talk about it a little 00:07:52.324 --> 00:07:52.464 bit? 00:07:53.069 --> 00:07:54.829 Yeah, so our athletic movement index, 00:07:54.970 --> 00:07:56.711 it uses four IMU sensors. 00:07:56.750 --> 00:07:58.132 So there's two sensors that go on the 00:07:58.172 --> 00:07:59.473 back and then two sensors that go on 00:07:59.512 --> 00:07:59.913 the shin. 00:08:00.254 --> 00:08:01.855 And it's a standardized test. 00:08:02.314 --> 00:08:04.396 So Trent's dedicated most of his 00:08:04.437 --> 00:08:06.858 profession to understanding why do ACLs 00:08:06.898 --> 00:08:07.418 happen? 00:08:07.478 --> 00:08:09.079 How do we rehab athletes back like 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:09.680 athletes? 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:11.480 And then how do we communicate them back 00:08:11.521 --> 00:08:13.161 to the surgeons or whoever needs to know 00:08:13.201 --> 00:08:13.723 this data? 00:08:14.463 --> 00:08:15.783 And so our sensors are placed on the 00:08:15.824 --> 00:08:16.264 body. 00:08:16.464 --> 00:08:19.065 And it doesn't matter if I like you 00:08:19.165 --> 00:08:20.807 as a kid or if I like you 00:08:20.848 --> 00:08:22.468 as a patient, you're working hard. 00:08:24.589 --> 00:08:26.271 the sensors are going to pick up the 00:08:26.391 --> 00:08:27.110 actual data. 00:08:27.170 --> 00:08:28.572 So we have them go through a series 00:08:28.591 --> 00:08:29.872 of movements like planks, 00:08:29.932 --> 00:08:32.033 double leg squats, single leg movements, 00:08:32.072 --> 00:08:32.793 single leg hop. 00:08:33.453 --> 00:08:35.215 And just the idea of it is to 00:08:35.254 --> 00:08:38.155 standardize the approach and to take all 00:08:38.196 --> 00:08:40.157 of that subjectivity out of it so we 00:08:40.197 --> 00:08:43.217 can truly do objective data, 00:08:43.298 --> 00:08:45.700 truly make our return to play decisions or 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:47.740 return to work or return to real life 00:08:47.821 --> 00:08:50.121 decisions with actual data. 00:08:50.822 --> 00:08:51.863 So it's been really helpful. 00:08:51.883 --> 00:08:53.243 There's with our system, 00:08:53.322 --> 00:08:55.124 there's sensors that are placed on the 00:08:55.163 --> 00:08:55.344 body, 00:08:55.364 --> 00:08:56.904 but you also have a video feedback as 00:08:56.965 --> 00:08:57.184 well. 00:08:57.304 --> 00:08:58.905 So that visual interpretation, 00:08:58.926 --> 00:09:00.326 that's helpful for the patients. 00:09:00.407 --> 00:09:01.687 And then you're gaining the rapport from 00:09:01.706 --> 00:09:02.167 them too. 00:09:04.284 --> 00:09:04.544 All right. 00:09:04.565 --> 00:09:05.985 So Mac is already like your telegraph and 00:09:06.005 --> 00:09:07.388 you're tipping off my next question, 00:09:07.408 --> 00:09:09.229 which was going to be if a clinic 00:09:09.288 --> 00:09:10.691 owner or a clinician is listening right 00:09:10.730 --> 00:09:12.072 now thinking that sounds cool. 00:09:12.852 --> 00:09:15.355 But man, I've been sold this before, 00:09:15.815 --> 00:09:16.096 right? 00:09:16.155 --> 00:09:17.897 Like, do I need another gadget? 00:09:18.457 --> 00:09:19.158 What would you say? 00:09:19.177 --> 00:09:20.519 Is it it's got to be simple. 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:21.640 It's got to be easy. 00:09:21.681 --> 00:09:22.682 It's got to be quick. 00:09:22.721 --> 00:09:23.842 If it's not those things. 00:09:25.264 --> 00:09:25.945 It's hard to use. 00:09:26.004 --> 00:09:28.106 So talk to me about what the actual 00:09:28.366 --> 00:09:29.427 tech looks like and how it works. 00:09:30.767 --> 00:09:31.947 Well, I can show you right here. 00:09:32.028 --> 00:09:33.748 So here's the IMU sensors. 00:09:33.888 --> 00:09:35.107 It's just you don't have the sticker on 00:09:35.128 --> 00:09:35.408 them. 00:09:35.869 --> 00:09:36.688 So it's an iPad. 00:09:36.708 --> 00:09:37.889 So it's an app that goes on to 00:09:37.908 --> 00:09:38.649 your iPad. 00:09:38.688 --> 00:09:39.429 It's called vMove+. 00:09:40.470 --> 00:09:42.149 We have two types of technology. 00:09:42.169 --> 00:09:43.750 So if you're looking for that quick 00:09:43.910 --> 00:09:45.431 assessment in the clinic, 00:09:45.951 --> 00:09:47.272 I don't want to put anything on the 00:09:47.312 --> 00:09:48.672 body, we have video AI. 00:09:48.851 --> 00:09:51.113 So you basically open up the application, 00:09:51.153 --> 00:09:51.852 start filming. 00:09:52.033 --> 00:09:53.673 Our system will place an algorithm over 00:09:53.734 --> 00:09:54.494 top of the body. 00:09:54.894 --> 00:09:56.754 We always blur out the face as well 00:09:56.793 --> 00:09:58.154 to keep it HIPAA compliant. 00:09:58.855 --> 00:10:00.756 And you can have them do any type 00:10:00.797 --> 00:10:01.918 of movement that you want. 00:10:01.998 --> 00:10:03.340 You can have them do a box drop, 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:04.421 lateral bounds. 00:10:04.961 --> 00:10:06.822 I just did a mass testing with baseball 00:10:06.842 --> 00:10:07.344 pitchers. 00:10:07.904 --> 00:10:09.505 And what our system will do is it'll 00:10:09.546 --> 00:10:11.447 calculate the joint angles. 00:10:11.548 --> 00:10:12.970 For example, 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:14.812 we have a module that's called lower limb 00:10:15.272 --> 00:10:17.053 and we look at the anterior view, 00:10:17.214 --> 00:10:18.235 auto detects the view. 00:10:19.115 --> 00:10:20.216 Anterior view is going to look at the 00:10:20.256 --> 00:10:23.599 pelvis, pelvic drop, pelvic hip hike, 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:24.198 Trendelenburg, 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:26.581 whatever you're looking for there. 00:10:26.821 --> 00:10:28.581 And then valgus and then tibia to surface. 00:10:29.322 --> 00:10:31.102 If you have the person face laterally, 00:10:31.182 --> 00:10:32.744 then it'll pick up the lateral view. 00:10:32.764 --> 00:10:34.684 So now we're detecting trunk lean, 00:10:35.265 --> 00:10:36.486 hip flexion, knee flexion, 00:10:36.567 --> 00:10:37.547 ankle dorsiflexion. 00:10:38.087 --> 00:10:38.908 So you have the, 00:10:39.427 --> 00:10:41.690 I'll just give a pretty good example. 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:43.530 I think that everyone has used before. 00:10:44.130 --> 00:10:46.032 um surgeons in this area still will do 00:10:46.111 --> 00:10:47.773 triple hop tests so we're looking at 00:10:47.974 --> 00:10:50.195 distance and speed for triple hop tests 00:10:50.215 --> 00:10:52.275 and symmetry but you're missing out on the 00:10:52.336 --> 00:10:54.878 kinematic integrity so if you want that 00:10:54.918 --> 00:10:56.678 kinematic integrity you want to build up 00:10:56.698 --> 00:10:58.440 the relationship with the doc you want to 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:01.181 get the great you know assessments and the 00:11:01.221 --> 00:11:03.383 objective data you can have them go 00:11:03.423 --> 00:11:04.803 through the triple hop test but then 00:11:04.823 --> 00:11:06.524 you're just filming them and getting the 00:11:06.684 --> 00:11:08.765 actual objective data our system will give 00:11:08.806 --> 00:11:10.826 you the target values and what you should 00:11:10.866 --> 00:11:11.307 be hitting 00:11:12.148 --> 00:11:13.349 So there's that realm. 00:11:13.469 --> 00:11:14.609 It's a five second clip. 00:11:14.668 --> 00:11:15.870 You open up the app and you just 00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:16.429 start filming. 00:11:17.210 --> 00:11:19.211 Then you have the IMU sensors that I 00:11:19.230 --> 00:11:19.931 just showed you. 00:11:20.171 --> 00:11:23.273 That's going to be like our gold standard. 00:11:23.373 --> 00:11:25.793 So we validate everything against Vicon. 00:11:25.854 --> 00:11:28.514 It's within one to two degrees of Vicon. 00:11:29.014 --> 00:11:30.375 You place the sensors on the body. 00:11:30.655 --> 00:11:31.676 I would say this is going to be 00:11:31.716 --> 00:11:33.876 your go to for like return to play 00:11:33.917 --> 00:11:34.418 testing. 00:11:37.184 --> 00:11:39.466 It's a tool in your kit, right? 00:11:39.525 --> 00:11:40.687 Like I would say, 00:11:41.006 --> 00:11:41.908 I still want to know, 00:11:42.087 --> 00:11:43.349 I'm thinking sports medicine. 00:11:43.969 --> 00:11:45.509 So I still want to know what do 00:11:45.529 --> 00:11:46.629 they look like on the field? 00:11:46.691 --> 00:11:47.091 What are they, 00:11:47.311 --> 00:11:48.871 what does their conditioning look like? 00:11:49.172 --> 00:11:50.812 Surgeon, what does the graph look like? 00:11:51.493 --> 00:11:53.754 But with the tech, the sensors, 00:11:53.794 --> 00:11:55.395 you place them on the body and it's 00:11:55.436 --> 00:11:57.116 capturing that data for you. 00:11:57.157 --> 00:11:58.697 And it's looking at valgus, 00:11:58.716 --> 00:12:00.437 speed of valgus, tibial inclination, 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.059 pelvic anterior tilt, right? 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:04.900 So that's some interesting information. 00:12:05.101 --> 00:12:06.162 Time to stability. 00:12:06.562 --> 00:12:08.303 So it's putting together a whole like 00:12:09.184 --> 00:12:11.626 really good case of this is why they 00:12:11.647 --> 00:12:13.008 should return to back to play or this 00:12:13.048 --> 00:12:14.528 is why they shouldn't go back to play. 00:12:15.870 --> 00:12:16.129 And again, 00:12:16.149 --> 00:12:17.552 it's taking that subjectivity out. 00:12:17.731 --> 00:12:18.773 But it's a quick assessment. 00:12:18.793 --> 00:12:21.134 It's about fifteen minutes for a full AMI 00:12:21.153 --> 00:12:22.956 screen or you can break it down into 00:12:23.035 --> 00:12:24.537 some single leg movements. 00:12:24.917 --> 00:12:26.298 And that takes about three minutes. 00:12:26.839 --> 00:12:28.759 So super quick, super easy. 00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:29.201 And like, 00:12:29.301 --> 00:12:31.283 why wouldn't you be doing some objective 00:12:31.322 --> 00:12:31.702 testing? 00:12:32.096 --> 00:12:34.740 And then what is just some of the 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:37.104 dashboard of the data look like? 00:12:37.124 --> 00:12:38.567 What are you getting in actionable 00:12:38.647 --> 00:12:39.207 information? 00:12:40.235 --> 00:12:42.035 Yeah, so you're getting for the AMI, 00:12:42.056 --> 00:12:45.197 for example, we're putting it on. 00:12:45.356 --> 00:12:46.736 So when you're actually doing the 00:12:46.756 --> 00:12:48.736 assessment, it's live data tracings. 00:12:49.118 --> 00:12:50.778 So you're seeing it live on the screen, 00:12:50.878 --> 00:12:52.437 how much they're going into tibial 00:12:52.457 --> 00:12:53.118 inclination. 00:12:53.677 --> 00:12:54.957 And then when you're finished with the 00:12:54.998 --> 00:12:55.479 assessment, 00:12:55.499 --> 00:12:56.999 there's an auto-generated report. 00:12:57.298 --> 00:12:59.619 And so what we'll give you is red, 00:12:59.658 --> 00:13:00.339 yellow, green. 00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:01.639 This is where you're scoring on these 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:02.600 specific movements. 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.519 We'll give you target key takeaways. 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:06.961 This is where you should look. 00:13:07.421 --> 00:13:09.301 If you're going into a single leg hop, 00:13:09.980 --> 00:13:12.081 and you're going into too much valgus and 00:13:12.121 --> 00:13:13.621 your hip is going all over the place, 00:13:13.842 --> 00:13:16.182 our key takeaways may sound something like 00:13:16.322 --> 00:13:17.783 lack of neuromuscular control, 00:13:17.864 --> 00:13:19.164 lateral hip weakness. 00:13:19.345 --> 00:13:21.565 So it's giving the clinicians, 00:13:22.826 --> 00:13:24.285 where do you need to look and how 00:13:24.326 --> 00:13:25.647 do you need to work with this patient? 00:13:25.667 --> 00:13:26.947 So it's saving you time with that 00:13:27.027 --> 00:13:28.148 auto-generated report. 00:13:28.327 --> 00:13:29.548 And then you can just drop it into 00:13:29.567 --> 00:13:31.849 your EMR and bill nine, seven, seven, 00:13:31.869 --> 00:13:32.450 five, zero. 00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:32.789 And that's, 00:13:33.110 --> 00:13:34.250 you don't have to do any additional 00:13:34.269 --> 00:13:35.130 information on that. 00:13:35.530 --> 00:13:36.130 It's all right there. 00:13:36.792 --> 00:13:38.793 So we're currently not integrated with any 00:13:38.913 --> 00:13:39.352 EMRs, 00:13:39.432 --> 00:13:40.773 but that is something that we're 00:13:40.812 --> 00:13:41.393 interested in. 00:13:41.793 --> 00:13:43.333 Um, that would be, I mean, 00:13:43.653 --> 00:13:44.813 extremely valuable for that to 00:13:44.933 --> 00:13:45.714 auto-populate. 00:13:46.673 --> 00:13:50.355 So right now it sounds like a simple 00:13:50.394 --> 00:13:52.735 copy paste into the appropriate section of 00:13:52.755 --> 00:13:53.316 the EMR. 00:13:53.975 --> 00:13:55.797 And that's our, that's our AMI. 00:13:55.836 --> 00:13:57.596 We also have a run assessment too, 00:13:57.616 --> 00:13:58.937 which is so cool. 00:13:58.996 --> 00:14:01.018 No one's doing the stuff that we're doing. 00:14:01.475 --> 00:14:03.096 It's like ground reaction force during 00:14:03.135 --> 00:14:03.615 mid-stance, 00:14:03.655 --> 00:14:05.256 initial peak acceleration during foot 00:14:05.317 --> 00:14:05.616 strike, 00:14:05.636 --> 00:14:07.437 which we know is directly correlated with 00:14:07.456 --> 00:14:08.797 stress fractures, shin splints. 00:14:09.298 --> 00:14:10.977 And then you also get a video AI 00:14:11.018 --> 00:14:11.498 component. 00:14:11.538 --> 00:14:13.378 So we're putting the force data together 00:14:13.457 --> 00:14:15.158 plus the video capability. 00:14:15.219 --> 00:14:16.938 So you can map out like, okay, 00:14:16.979 --> 00:14:18.078 during initial contact, 00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:19.539 this is what your IPA is. 00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:21.240 And this is what your hip flexion and 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.659 ankle dorsiflexion is or your knee 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:24.201 flexion. 00:14:24.421 --> 00:14:25.841 So you're putting together a nice story 00:14:25.880 --> 00:14:26.500 for that patient. 00:14:27.278 --> 00:14:27.778 Understood. 00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:30.000 So is this a this feels like it 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:32.542 could be a shortcut or a multiplier? 00:14:33.302 --> 00:14:33.902 Or both? 00:14:34.423 --> 00:14:35.082 Yeah, 00:14:35.562 --> 00:14:38.504 test healthy people test patients in 00:14:38.565 --> 00:14:40.885 clinic, check your progress, Jake, 00:14:41.285 --> 00:14:42.907 test them when they're ready to be 00:14:42.947 --> 00:14:43.386 released. 00:14:45.184 --> 00:14:45.504 For sure. 00:14:45.585 --> 00:14:47.427 And the shortcut is it's fast. 00:14:47.506 --> 00:14:49.948 I mean, video AI, five seconds, 00:14:49.989 --> 00:14:51.931 basically have someone do one or two 00:14:51.971 --> 00:14:54.832 squats and you can get so much data 00:14:54.852 --> 00:14:55.432 and information. 00:14:55.774 --> 00:14:56.815 And obviously you can have them do 00:14:56.855 --> 00:14:58.015 multiple reps and compare, 00:14:59.035 --> 00:15:00.857 particularly as you give them verbal cues, 00:15:00.937 --> 00:15:01.557 corrections, 00:15:02.198 --> 00:15:03.960 and show them how they're improving 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:05.922 throughout a session as you told them to 00:15:06.241 --> 00:15:07.722 maybe shift their weight to the right as 00:15:07.744 --> 00:15:09.225 they get a little bit lower. 00:15:10.423 --> 00:15:10.964 Things like that, 00:15:11.083 --> 00:15:12.504 or correcting their running. 00:15:13.264 --> 00:15:15.147 But like you said, a multiplier, 00:15:15.567 --> 00:15:18.408 the amount of information and the quality 00:15:18.688 --> 00:15:21.270 of data that we get with the sensors 00:15:21.431 --> 00:15:24.212 is incomparable in clinical. 00:15:25.234 --> 00:15:26.134 in clinic. 00:15:26.173 --> 00:15:26.793 So, you know, 00:15:27.195 --> 00:15:29.215 to get that sort of that level of 00:15:29.254 --> 00:15:31.716 data anywhere else, I think it's Vicon, 00:15:31.796 --> 00:15:32.716 which is like you have to be in 00:15:32.735 --> 00:15:35.937 a studio with eighteen cameras and 00:15:36.616 --> 00:15:36.996 sensors, 00:15:37.057 --> 00:15:39.297 all the visual sensors all over the body. 00:15:39.496 --> 00:15:41.118 This is four sensors you just stick on 00:15:41.677 --> 00:15:42.837 and simple. 00:15:42.857 --> 00:15:44.339 You can even send somebody out for a 00:15:44.479 --> 00:15:46.639 run in the park and use that data 00:15:47.099 --> 00:15:48.679 to show them how they're doing. 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.820 Or do some online coaching. 00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:53.020 That's been a big hit lately and that's 00:15:53.041 --> 00:15:53.801 been interesting. 00:15:54.687 --> 00:15:55.407 So what would you do there? 00:15:55.447 --> 00:15:56.648 You would talk someone through where to 00:15:56.707 --> 00:15:58.769 place things and set that up and then 00:15:58.948 --> 00:16:00.009 tell them what to do remotely? 00:16:00.528 --> 00:16:01.889 You would use your video AI. 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:04.811 So if you have the video AI application 00:16:04.951 --> 00:16:06.211 and you're on Zoom right now, 00:16:06.351 --> 00:16:08.413 I can just hold open my iPad and 00:16:08.472 --> 00:16:10.673 start filming any movement that I want. 00:16:10.874 --> 00:16:12.634 And then I can scroll through and teach 00:16:12.673 --> 00:16:13.514 them like, hey, 00:16:13.534 --> 00:16:14.514 during your single leg squat, 00:16:14.534 --> 00:16:16.735 you're going into valgus here, you know, 00:16:16.895 --> 00:16:18.576 looking at the shin angle versus the trunk 00:16:18.636 --> 00:16:20.258 angle on your on your squat from the 00:16:20.298 --> 00:16:20.837 lateral view. 00:16:23.392 --> 00:16:26.594 There's no good story without tension, 00:16:26.953 --> 00:16:27.174 right? 00:16:27.195 --> 00:16:28.534 There's got to be pain that you're 00:16:28.615 --> 00:16:29.176 solving. 00:16:29.296 --> 00:16:31.157 So let's ask this. 00:16:31.437 --> 00:16:34.099 If PTs or healthcare professionals don't 00:16:34.198 --> 00:16:35.940 evolve their movement standards, 00:16:36.740 --> 00:16:39.142 what happens to our positions in MSK care? 00:16:39.182 --> 00:16:40.402 I feel like we just did an episode 00:16:40.422 --> 00:16:41.363 on this a couple days ago, 00:16:41.383 --> 00:16:43.904 which is everywhere else in medicine, 00:16:44.044 --> 00:16:45.424 which we like to say movement is medicine, 00:16:45.625 --> 00:16:47.726 everywhere else in medicine is highly 00:16:47.746 --> 00:16:48.527 measured, right? 00:16:48.626 --> 00:16:50.509 Blood tests and blood pressure, 00:16:50.548 --> 00:16:52.230 things are measured very, very precisely. 00:16:53.029 --> 00:16:54.792 And maybe in our professions for a while 00:16:54.831 --> 00:16:55.952 now, we've just said, you know, 00:16:56.013 --> 00:16:58.815 good enough or things like about or we 00:16:58.855 --> 00:17:01.738 all know how accurate a goniometer is or 00:17:01.798 --> 00:17:03.298 is not, right? 00:17:03.359 --> 00:17:04.519 Where's the tension in the story? 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.281 What happens if we don't evolve towards 00:17:06.321 --> 00:17:07.202 something like this? 00:17:08.702 --> 00:17:11.806 already happening right i i think the 00:17:11.865 --> 00:17:15.489 value of pts are just not valued as 00:17:15.528 --> 00:17:18.631 highly as they should be with the with 00:17:18.651 --> 00:17:19.771 the amount of value that they're actually 00:17:19.832 --> 00:17:23.055 adding to the healthcare system um showing 00:17:23.075 --> 00:17:26.198 the numbers quantifying is one of the 00:17:26.238 --> 00:17:29.000 pieces of the puzzle that can can help 00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:30.942 add to our story um 00:17:32.843 --> 00:17:33.963 The other part is efficiency. 00:17:34.943 --> 00:17:36.424 That's really where I'm targeting a lot of 00:17:36.464 --> 00:17:37.045 my energy, 00:17:37.965 --> 00:17:42.048 which is if you can observe somebody doing 00:17:42.087 --> 00:17:42.667 certain movements, 00:17:44.469 --> 00:17:47.990 a video AI with the use of AI 00:17:48.090 --> 00:17:50.452 algorithms can help PTs in their 00:17:50.492 --> 00:17:51.653 decision-making process. 00:17:52.233 --> 00:17:54.174 Now, that might be scary for some PTs, 00:17:54.194 --> 00:17:56.175 like now I'm being replaced by AI. 00:17:56.675 --> 00:17:57.957 No, you're being enhanced by AI. 00:17:57.977 --> 00:17:59.798 You're being optimized, and you're 00:18:00.557 --> 00:18:02.199 you know you're still the decision maker 00:18:02.499 --> 00:18:04.701 as the pt but now you have a 00:18:04.961 --> 00:18:06.821 now you have a partner an agent who's 00:18:07.041 --> 00:18:09.123 helping you in that decision making and 00:18:09.463 --> 00:18:11.924 we're really honing in on that now well 00:18:11.984 --> 00:18:14.527 i think like i mean everyone's tracking 00:18:14.586 --> 00:18:18.009 everything or rings apple watches so if 00:18:18.028 --> 00:18:19.829 you're not jumping on board they're going 00:18:19.849 --> 00:18:23.672 to find another clinic that will i was 00:18:23.711 --> 00:18:25.292 just having a conversation about this 00:18:25.333 --> 00:18:25.634 which is 00:18:28.211 --> 00:18:30.375 The answer is usually fear or ego or 00:18:30.435 --> 00:18:32.400 uncomfortableness or imposter syndrome, 00:18:32.621 --> 00:18:32.881 right? 00:18:32.941 --> 00:18:33.122 Like... 00:18:34.215 --> 00:18:36.518 I would never put together an affiliate 00:18:36.557 --> 00:18:39.299 list to suggest products to my patients. 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:40.381 That would be ridiculous. 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:42.281 But half of your staff on the way 00:18:42.321 --> 00:18:43.163 out the door saying, well, 00:18:43.182 --> 00:18:44.103 what would you get for this? 00:18:44.143 --> 00:18:45.124 And you'd say, oh, I do that. 00:18:45.163 --> 00:18:46.724 Just go on Amazon and search this. 00:18:47.425 --> 00:18:49.086 But the fact that you'd curate a list 00:18:49.186 --> 00:18:51.328 to do that is blasphemy. 00:18:51.749 --> 00:18:53.730 The thing is what we've known or I've 00:18:53.770 --> 00:18:54.391 seen in history, 00:18:54.770 --> 00:18:56.432 the things that are blasphemy now, 00:18:57.509 --> 00:19:00.691 are commonplace several years later like 00:19:00.770 --> 00:19:02.311 and it's usually the people who embrace 00:19:02.352 --> 00:19:05.153 the thing that's scary or uncomfortable or 00:19:05.213 --> 00:19:08.595 blasphemous are the ones that usually i 00:19:08.615 --> 00:19:10.195 don't know i would say get ahead but 00:19:10.215 --> 00:19:12.017 like usually get ahead or stay that's the 00:19:12.057 --> 00:19:12.817 reason they are ahead 00:19:14.647 --> 00:19:15.248 Yeah. 00:19:15.508 --> 00:19:17.229 Why don't you say that I'm actually 00:19:17.489 --> 00:19:20.068 working on a partnership with a product 00:19:20.088 --> 00:19:22.049 company that that can be something that we 00:19:22.089 --> 00:19:24.029 might integrate to into our products. 00:19:24.390 --> 00:19:26.810 Like as, as an assessment is done, 00:19:26.851 --> 00:19:27.770 as analysis is done, 00:19:28.451 --> 00:19:31.030 a product could be recommended to patients 00:19:31.131 --> 00:19:31.550 right there. 00:19:32.451 --> 00:19:33.291 Ultimately, there, 00:19:33.551 --> 00:19:35.751 we could even include links and make it 00:19:36.112 --> 00:19:38.653 really automate exactly that I'm a big fan 00:19:38.732 --> 00:19:41.012 of not necessarily endorsing products, 00:19:41.032 --> 00:19:43.614 but suggesting products to patients. 00:19:44.635 --> 00:19:46.557 I think it's knowing who your patient is 00:19:46.616 --> 00:19:47.498 too, right? 00:19:47.617 --> 00:19:50.159 Like if there's someone who like runners, 00:19:50.298 --> 00:19:52.401 they're typically going to want to know 00:19:52.601 --> 00:19:54.561 all of the data right here, right now, 00:19:54.602 --> 00:19:56.063 they'll tell other friends about it. 00:19:57.022 --> 00:19:57.103 Um, 00:19:57.202 --> 00:19:58.983 if it's someone who's not as tech savvy, 00:19:59.003 --> 00:20:00.565 maybe I wouldn't recommend it. 00:20:00.625 --> 00:20:02.486 I'd still do it in the clinic, but, 00:20:03.787 --> 00:20:05.928 um, maybe not at home, 00:20:06.108 --> 00:20:07.890 but you just have to know your patient 00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:08.349 for sure. 00:20:10.022 --> 00:20:10.442 Understood. 00:20:11.483 --> 00:20:13.483 What didn't I ask or what are some 00:20:13.544 --> 00:20:15.065 frequently asked questions that you get 00:20:15.105 --> 00:20:17.444 that we didn't cover from people that are 00:20:17.505 --> 00:20:19.385 leaning into adopt something like this 00:20:19.625 --> 00:20:20.946 that maybe we didn't talk about yet? 00:20:22.386 --> 00:20:22.646 Mako, 00:20:22.707 --> 00:20:23.887 maybe you want to talk about some of 00:20:23.968 --> 00:20:27.509 the use cases that we've already deployed 00:20:27.548 --> 00:20:30.710 or that are in clinics and with sports 00:20:30.730 --> 00:20:32.029 teams and other groups now? 00:20:32.529 --> 00:20:33.711 Yeah, so the system... 00:20:34.881 --> 00:20:37.402 typically we will sell the system to 00:20:37.442 --> 00:20:40.962 clinicians um a lot of the time so 00:20:41.042 --> 00:20:43.123 when i worked for a large outpatient 00:20:43.163 --> 00:20:45.544 division i'm not a pt i was trying 00:20:45.584 --> 00:20:48.825 to build a cash pay program i didn't 00:20:48.845 --> 00:20:50.204 want so i'm an athletic trainer i didn't 00:20:50.224 --> 00:20:51.905 want to be on the sidelines so what 00:20:51.986 --> 00:20:53.865 i did is i did mass testings out 00:20:53.885 --> 00:20:55.767 at the schools so i was capturing 00:20:56.106 --> 00:20:57.729 healthy individuals so i was bringing the 00:20:57.769 --> 00:20:59.911 system out capturing healthy individuals 00:20:59.931 --> 00:21:02.353 that's getting my company's name out there 00:21:02.532 --> 00:21:04.034 my name out there so if and when 00:21:04.075 --> 00:21:05.935 they do get injured they can come see 00:21:06.056 --> 00:21:07.297 us because we have that baseline 00:21:07.317 --> 00:21:07.798 assessment 00:21:08.798 --> 00:21:10.440 We typically charge cash for that. 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.401 And then we get gained referrals off of 00:21:12.441 --> 00:21:12.780 it too. 00:21:12.800 --> 00:21:15.321 So it's a tool in your toolkit to 00:21:15.442 --> 00:21:16.481 gain referrals. 00:21:17.021 --> 00:21:18.823 I also brought it into surgeons. 00:21:18.863 --> 00:21:21.403 So we have a number of surgeons referring 00:21:21.463 --> 00:21:24.325 directly in for our AMI assessment at six 00:21:24.365 --> 00:21:25.105 months post-op, 00:21:25.266 --> 00:21:26.905 whether they were our patient or not. 00:21:26.986 --> 00:21:28.686 So that was a great opportunity for us 00:21:28.727 --> 00:21:30.186 to say to the patient, hey, 00:21:30.207 --> 00:21:31.387 do you want to continue to work with 00:21:31.528 --> 00:21:33.328 us or while we have this test and 00:21:33.348 --> 00:21:34.249 we keep you on track? 00:21:34.789 --> 00:21:36.030 or we can send these results over to 00:21:36.070 --> 00:21:36.590 the PT. 00:21:37.231 --> 00:21:40.174 So it's not only are you capturing data, 00:21:40.214 --> 00:21:43.058 it's a great referrals like tool. 00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:47.182 So outpatient referrals into with the 00:21:47.202 --> 00:21:47.644 docs, 00:21:48.104 --> 00:21:49.605 current patients that we're using the 00:21:49.645 --> 00:21:50.346 system on. 00:21:50.567 --> 00:21:54.371 Yeah. 00:21:54.471 --> 00:21:55.172 Anything else, Dan? 00:21:55.192 --> 00:21:55.332 Yeah. 00:21:56.030 --> 00:21:56.431 Yeah, I mean, 00:21:56.932 --> 00:22:00.094 we also have workplace safety modules and 00:22:00.473 --> 00:22:00.993 sensors. 00:22:01.414 --> 00:22:07.419 So a bunch of companies are actually using 00:22:07.638 --> 00:22:11.181 our sensors in the workplace to monitor 00:22:12.442 --> 00:22:15.544 at-risk employees in factories or assembly 00:22:15.564 --> 00:22:16.505 lines, things like that. 00:22:18.165 --> 00:22:19.365 Return to work, of course, 00:22:19.405 --> 00:22:21.768 we're working on workers comp, 00:22:21.827 --> 00:22:24.789 building a partnership with workers comp 00:22:24.829 --> 00:22:28.432 software company to facilitate FCEs. 00:22:28.451 --> 00:22:31.834 That's something that is a huge headache 00:22:31.854 --> 00:22:32.814 for a lot of PTs. 00:22:33.214 --> 00:22:36.155 Could be a six hour test where we 00:22:36.195 --> 00:22:37.757 have this idea that we could narrow it 00:22:37.777 --> 00:22:39.157 down to four hours easily, 00:22:39.218 --> 00:22:40.578 maybe somewhere between two and four 00:22:40.638 --> 00:22:40.979 hours. 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:42.940 And Mac, 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:44.340 I'm not sure if you could talk about 00:22:44.381 --> 00:22:45.501 it, but women's health. 00:22:46.771 --> 00:22:50.153 So we're just in the very early stages 00:22:50.192 --> 00:22:51.752 of working through pelvic health. 00:22:51.992 --> 00:22:53.753 So we have a spine module. 00:22:54.054 --> 00:22:56.233 Our spine module assesses active range of 00:22:56.253 --> 00:22:57.213 movement of the spine. 00:22:57.253 --> 00:22:59.515 So flexion, extension, lateral flexion, 00:22:59.555 --> 00:23:00.154 rotation. 00:23:00.734 --> 00:23:02.796 And now we're adding in an EMG sensor. 00:23:02.976 --> 00:23:03.796 So for instance, 00:23:03.955 --> 00:23:06.236 I had an IMU sensor on my spine 00:23:07.057 --> 00:23:08.096 capturing the movement. 00:23:08.356 --> 00:23:09.957 And then I had an EMG on my 00:23:09.997 --> 00:23:12.438 transverse ab and then one on my QL. 00:23:13.178 --> 00:23:15.859 And so what it's showing is biofeedback. 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:16.820 So it's showing me, oh, 00:23:16.881 --> 00:23:18.561 I'm lighting up through my back a little 00:23:18.602 --> 00:23:20.003 bit too much when I should be using 00:23:20.044 --> 00:23:20.564 my core. 00:23:20.624 --> 00:23:23.086 So being able to see that data on 00:23:23.125 --> 00:23:25.167 the screen has been really helpful. 00:23:25.428 --> 00:23:26.689 Those are early stages. 00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:29.211 It's something that we'll release with our 00:23:29.250 --> 00:23:30.971 spine module here in a little bit. 00:23:32.153 --> 00:23:33.074 But the thing I think 00:23:33.959 --> 00:23:35.878 What we do really well at Dorsivee is 00:23:35.939 --> 00:23:37.559 we listen to our customers. 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.220 So we have been in pilots with our 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:42.661 large outpatient divisions to understand 00:23:42.800 --> 00:23:44.000 what do you want to use? 00:23:44.320 --> 00:23:45.922 What assessments are we lacking? 00:23:46.001 --> 00:23:47.461 How would you like to assess these 00:23:47.501 --> 00:23:48.021 patients? 00:23:48.602 --> 00:23:50.522 And then we'll capture that information 00:23:50.563 --> 00:23:52.202 and actually add it to our product. 00:23:53.104 --> 00:23:54.903 So the EMG sensors are coming soon. 00:23:54.923 --> 00:23:55.663 It's really exciting. 00:23:55.683 --> 00:23:56.423 Yeah. 00:23:56.443 --> 00:23:57.984 This is the direction things are going, 00:23:58.224 --> 00:23:58.464 right? 00:23:58.565 --> 00:23:58.845 I mean, 00:23:58.904 --> 00:24:00.704 what used to cost a hundred thousand 00:24:00.724 --> 00:24:02.365 dollars in a lab with force plates and 00:24:02.405 --> 00:24:03.586 things you had to place on people. 00:24:05.333 --> 00:24:07.354 are now going to be measurable by my 00:24:07.394 --> 00:24:08.614 doorbell camera, right? 00:24:09.153 --> 00:24:09.374 Yep. 00:24:09.673 --> 00:24:10.555 Yep. 00:24:10.595 --> 00:24:10.994 Exactly. 00:24:11.015 --> 00:24:11.295 Exactly that. 00:24:11.434 --> 00:24:16.176 And we look at it as the – 00:24:14.496 --> 00:24:15.836 I've been with this company for a few 00:24:15.875 --> 00:24:16.257 months now, 00:24:16.457 --> 00:24:18.916 and I really thought the whole thing was 00:24:18.977 --> 00:24:22.398 about the sensors and the hardware. 00:24:23.038 --> 00:24:24.519 This is a company that developed the 00:24:24.558 --> 00:24:29.000 hardware to really high standards, 00:24:29.921 --> 00:24:31.201 but it's really a software company. 00:24:31.622 --> 00:24:34.404 So what we can do, like Maka said, 00:24:34.464 --> 00:24:36.546 is we can listen to our customers and 00:24:36.625 --> 00:24:38.847 customize just about anything when it 00:24:38.867 --> 00:24:40.449 comes to measuring human movement. 00:24:40.469 --> 00:24:42.790 And that's super fascinating. 00:24:42.871 --> 00:24:43.672 You know, I've always been, 00:24:44.571 --> 00:24:45.633 I've been fascinated by that. 00:24:45.692 --> 00:24:47.094 Like when I was a kid, you know, 00:24:47.134 --> 00:24:48.556 you'd see like robotics and things like 00:24:48.576 --> 00:24:48.875 that. 00:24:49.736 --> 00:24:50.797 As I got into PT, I was like, 00:24:50.817 --> 00:24:52.198 this is the coolest part of PT, 00:24:52.699 --> 00:24:53.638 looking how people move. 00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.542 And then like being able to like really 00:24:57.563 --> 00:24:58.163 understand 00:24:58.282 --> 00:25:00.403 tech it out and measure it and then 00:25:00.443 --> 00:25:00.983 apply it. 00:25:01.523 --> 00:25:04.125 That's, that's awesome to me. 00:25:04.184 --> 00:25:04.484 Perfect. 00:25:04.505 --> 00:25:04.684 All right. 00:25:04.704 --> 00:25:05.705 We have a tradition on the show. 00:25:05.746 --> 00:25:09.707 It is called the parting shot. 00:25:09.767 --> 00:25:11.788 This is the parting shot. 00:25:12.347 --> 00:25:13.729 One last mic drop moment. 00:25:14.409 --> 00:25:15.209 No pressure. 00:25:15.669 --> 00:25:17.789 Just your legacy on the line. 00:25:19.384 --> 00:25:21.105 I do want to say thanks to U.S. 00:25:21.144 --> 00:25:21.904 Physical Therapy. 00:25:21.944 --> 00:25:23.306 If you're tired of working for companies 00:25:23.346 --> 00:25:24.727 run by people who just don't understand 00:25:24.767 --> 00:25:26.208 PT, at U.S. 00:25:26.248 --> 00:25:26.968 Physical Therapy, 00:25:27.008 --> 00:25:28.848 they're clinician-led from top to bottom. 00:25:29.048 --> 00:25:30.130 It means your voice matters, 00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:31.410 your growth matters, 00:25:32.090 --> 00:25:33.612 and your career can actually feel like 00:25:33.632 --> 00:25:34.152 yours again. 00:25:34.192 --> 00:25:35.913 Explore opportunities right now at 00:25:36.073 --> 00:25:37.292 USPH.com. 00:25:37.314 --> 00:25:38.953 That's USPH.com. 00:25:39.295 --> 00:25:41.435 Two guests means two parting shots. 00:25:42.455 --> 00:25:43.877 Who wants to go first? 00:25:44.018 --> 00:25:45.599 I should say, who wants to go second? 00:25:45.881 --> 00:25:48.243 Because usually it's harder to follow up. 00:25:48.284 --> 00:25:49.125 But parting shot, 00:25:49.144 --> 00:25:50.346 what would you leave the audience with? 00:25:50.365 --> 00:25:52.229 What's your mic drop moment? 00:25:52.269 --> 00:25:53.150 Ladies first, Macca. 00:25:54.567 --> 00:25:55.929 Okay, my mic drop. 00:25:56.048 --> 00:25:58.191 So being in sports med, 00:25:58.431 --> 00:26:00.673 I would just say rehab athletes like 00:26:00.732 --> 00:26:01.232 athletes. 00:26:01.432 --> 00:26:02.713 Use the objective data. 00:26:02.814 --> 00:26:04.214 Don't use just your eye. 00:26:04.415 --> 00:26:05.375 Use our sensors. 00:26:05.936 --> 00:26:07.018 Use the video AI. 00:26:07.357 --> 00:26:09.378 Build the relationships with the athletes. 00:26:09.579 --> 00:26:10.660 Build the relationships with your 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:11.260 patients. 00:26:11.361 --> 00:26:13.102 And it'll be so much easier for you 00:26:13.122 --> 00:26:14.022 for the long haul. 00:26:14.083 --> 00:26:15.364 And they'll come back if they need you 00:26:15.403 --> 00:26:15.743 again. 00:26:15.864 --> 00:26:18.445 But rehab athletes like athletes is my mic 00:26:18.465 --> 00:26:18.866 drop moment. 00:26:18.886 --> 00:26:19.267 All right. 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.961 I am a practicing PT, 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.221 so I feel your pain out there. 00:26:27.761 --> 00:26:30.083 Using this Dorsibee system has made my 00:26:30.123 --> 00:26:33.804 life easier as a practicing PT for 00:26:34.243 --> 00:26:36.444 education patients, documentation, 00:26:36.984 --> 00:26:41.625 and facilitating decision-making. 00:26:43.027 --> 00:26:44.767 We have to think about so many things 00:26:44.846 --> 00:26:46.248 as a PT all at one time. 00:26:46.647 --> 00:26:48.409 Having a partner in the clinic with me 00:26:48.669 --> 00:26:49.628 has been super helpful. 00:26:50.393 --> 00:26:50.653 Awesome. 00:26:50.732 --> 00:26:51.713 And if people want more information, 00:26:51.734 --> 00:26:52.474 we'll put it in the show notes, 00:26:52.494 --> 00:26:53.395 but where would you send someone? 00:26:54.857 --> 00:26:57.621 They can go to our website, dorsivee.com, 00:26:57.881 --> 00:26:59.863 or they can connect with me directly, 00:27:00.044 --> 00:27:01.825 mstewart at dorsivee.com. 00:27:02.326 --> 00:27:02.786 Perfect. 00:27:04.709 --> 00:27:05.388 All right. 00:27:05.449 --> 00:27:06.390 Dan, appreciate the time. 00:27:07.832 --> 00:27:08.413 Thank you, Jimmy. 00:27:08.512 --> 00:27:09.093 This was awesome. 00:27:09.594 --> 00:27:10.474 Keep up the great work, man. 00:27:10.954 --> 00:27:11.395 Appreciate it. 00:27:12.849 --> 00:27:13.911 That's it for this one, 00:27:14.191 --> 00:27:15.852 but we're just getting warmed up. 00:27:16.333 --> 00:27:18.233 Smash follow, send it to a friend, 00:27:18.453 --> 00:27:20.115 or crank up the next episode. 00:27:20.635 --> 00:27:21.636 Want to go deeper? 00:27:21.997 --> 00:27:26.059 Hit us at pgpinecast.com or find us on 00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:28.642 YouTube and socials at pgpinecast. 00:27:29.061 --> 00:27:31.344 And legally, none of this was advice. 00:27:31.403 --> 00:27:33.184 It's for entertainment purposes only. 00:27:33.224 --> 00:27:33.766 Bullshit! 00:27:34.826 --> 00:27:35.406 See, Keith? 00:27:35.606 --> 00:27:36.688 We read the script. 00:27:36.968 --> 00:27:37.628 Happy now?