WEBVTT 00:00:02.619 --> 00:00:03.318 It's the wooga wooga. 00:00:03.338 --> 00:00:12.085 Wooga wooga wooga wooga. 00:00:12.125 --> 00:00:13.064 Now we get all casual. 00:00:13.125 --> 00:00:14.185 Now we're like, all right, now relax. 00:00:14.305 --> 00:00:16.106 Lisa Flexner is back on the show live 00:00:16.126 --> 00:00:17.187 here at APTA CSM. 00:00:17.207 --> 00:00:18.708 How's your conference going is the 00:00:18.748 --> 00:00:19.629 question everybody asks. 00:00:19.829 --> 00:00:21.170 It has been amazing. 00:00:21.310 --> 00:00:22.710 I never know how to answer that question. 00:00:22.731 --> 00:00:23.952 How's your conference going? 00:00:24.071 --> 00:00:24.533 Chaotic? 00:00:24.952 --> 00:00:26.574 The conference has been chaotic and 00:00:26.653 --> 00:00:28.335 nonstop as it always is. 00:00:28.875 --> 00:00:30.036 And I love every second of it. 00:00:30.551 --> 00:00:32.453 I have a fancy intro for you. 00:00:32.472 --> 00:00:33.673 Can I do the big fancy intro? 00:00:33.694 --> 00:00:35.594 Oh, goodness. 00:00:35.755 --> 00:00:37.615 Most workplaces technically work, 00:00:37.915 --> 00:00:39.996 but aren't working for the people inside 00:00:40.017 --> 00:00:40.137 them. 00:00:40.997 --> 00:00:41.737 It's not good. 00:00:41.959 --> 00:00:43.819 Our next guest helps leaders fix systems 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:45.200 instead of blaming burned out humans. 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:45.920 If you've ever thought, 00:00:46.021 --> 00:00:47.500 it shouldn't be this hard to do good 00:00:47.540 --> 00:00:49.622 work, this conversation is you. 00:00:49.963 --> 00:00:52.003 Lisa Flexner, live from Anaheim. 00:00:52.024 --> 00:00:52.704 How'd the intro go? 00:00:53.445 --> 00:00:54.645 The intro was fantastic. 00:00:54.685 --> 00:00:55.386 Thank you very much. 00:00:55.585 --> 00:00:56.646 So why are, 00:00:57.286 --> 00:00:59.006 we've had this conversation on LinkedIn or 00:00:59.048 --> 00:01:00.508 other discussions, but I don't think it's, 00:01:01.588 --> 00:01:02.429 we haven't solved it yet. 00:01:02.808 --> 00:01:04.971 But why are burnout problems really system 00:01:05.031 --> 00:01:05.471 problems? 00:01:06.052 --> 00:01:07.873 Burnout is always an individual response 00:01:07.893 --> 00:01:10.112 to a systems problem. 00:01:11.493 --> 00:01:15.275 It shows up in an individual's motivation. 00:01:15.314 --> 00:01:17.296 It shows up in an individual's emotional 00:01:17.335 --> 00:01:17.575 health. 00:01:17.635 --> 00:01:19.236 It shows up in their exhaustion, 00:01:20.117 --> 00:01:20.917 their cynicism. 00:01:21.417 --> 00:01:23.837 But it's actually a response to different 00:01:23.878 --> 00:01:24.237 levels. 00:01:24.317 --> 00:01:25.959 So you've got your individual, and yeah, 00:01:25.978 --> 00:01:28.060 there are individual things that are going 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:29.120 to contribute to burnout. 00:01:29.579 --> 00:01:31.200 But you've also got the interpersonal 00:01:31.240 --> 00:01:33.602 leadership skills, management skills, 00:01:33.662 --> 00:01:35.804 maybe a mismatch between how somebody 00:01:35.843 --> 00:01:38.144 likes to be managed and how their manager 00:01:38.165 --> 00:01:38.926 style is. 00:01:39.445 --> 00:01:41.927 You've got organizational issues that can 00:01:41.966 --> 00:01:43.427 be addressed that are contributing to 00:01:43.447 --> 00:01:44.649 burnout that, you know, 00:01:44.688 --> 00:01:45.829 we've got a lot of tech that is 00:01:45.890 --> 00:01:47.990 helping with this now, which is great. 00:01:48.010 --> 00:01:49.792 But a lot of some places are slow 00:01:49.811 --> 00:01:51.513 to adopt or can't afford to adopt. 00:01:51.793 --> 00:01:52.993 Or can I point out the other end 00:01:53.013 --> 00:01:53.414 of the spectrum? 00:01:53.593 --> 00:01:54.254 Are you familiar with Notion? 00:01:54.275 --> 00:01:55.936 Notion, yes. 00:01:56.016 --> 00:01:57.316 Notion AI? 00:01:57.376 --> 00:01:57.736 Yeah. 00:01:57.777 --> 00:02:00.358 But it's a database, right, super helpful. 00:02:00.459 --> 00:02:01.259 And I remember working for an 00:02:01.299 --> 00:02:01.920 organization, 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:03.881 and I remember asking a human a question, 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:05.402 and the answer was, it's in Notion. 00:02:05.421 --> 00:02:06.623 And I was like, all right. 00:02:06.722 --> 00:02:08.663 It wasn't very easy to find it. 00:02:08.925 --> 00:02:08.965 No. 00:02:08.985 --> 00:02:11.686 So I coined a little phrase, which is, 00:02:11.907 --> 00:02:13.046 Notion is in the ocean. 00:02:13.326 --> 00:02:14.848 I'm sure it is, in fact, in there, 00:02:15.128 --> 00:02:16.149 but it's going to take me six months 00:02:16.169 --> 00:02:16.590 to find it. 00:02:16.849 --> 00:02:18.371 Or you could just explain it to me. 00:02:18.631 --> 00:02:18.830 Right. 00:02:18.971 --> 00:02:20.512 Or can you share with me? 00:02:20.651 --> 00:02:20.831 Exactly. 00:02:23.014 --> 00:02:24.715 tech a problem. 00:02:24.754 --> 00:02:25.975 This wasn't a giant problem until we 00:02:26.056 --> 00:02:26.896 teched it. 00:02:26.917 --> 00:02:27.578 That was the problem. 00:02:27.677 --> 00:02:28.217 Absolutely. 00:02:28.638 --> 00:02:29.199 And, you know, 00:02:29.419 --> 00:02:31.881 what do we do that makes workflows better 00:02:31.980 --> 00:02:33.342 or worse too, right? 00:02:33.461 --> 00:02:35.143 Whether it's, you know, 00:02:35.323 --> 00:02:37.324 it's just easier to ask you than to 00:02:37.625 --> 00:02:39.646 go and search Notion for five hours. 00:02:40.306 --> 00:02:44.069 Or are we creating workflows and systems 00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:44.790 between, say, 00:02:44.811 --> 00:02:46.991 our clinicians and our front desk that are 00:02:47.072 --> 00:02:49.554 actually creating more challenges and more 00:02:49.593 --> 00:02:50.155 disruption 00:02:50.754 --> 00:02:51.955 and less patient throughput. 00:02:52.235 --> 00:02:53.157 Yeah. 00:02:53.197 --> 00:02:54.957 Seeing things I would imagine from more 00:02:54.978 --> 00:02:55.918 than just your point of view. 00:02:55.978 --> 00:02:56.959 Yes, my front desk, 00:02:57.019 --> 00:02:57.879 this is easier for them, 00:02:58.219 --> 00:03:00.741 but it just put a lot of annoyance 00:03:00.781 --> 00:03:02.703 or effort on the patient or vice versa. 00:03:03.103 --> 00:03:03.282 Right. 00:03:03.423 --> 00:03:04.584 And you have to look at it from 00:03:05.243 --> 00:03:06.625 multiple points of view. 00:03:06.645 --> 00:03:08.126 Why am I filling this out again? 00:03:08.265 --> 00:03:08.866 I just did. 00:03:09.347 --> 00:03:10.366 Isn't there a way to fill this out? 00:03:10.387 --> 00:03:10.567 Well, 00:03:10.987 --> 00:03:12.308 this system doesn't talk to this system. 00:03:13.875 --> 00:03:14.955 From the guy who now goes to a 00:03:14.974 --> 00:03:16.156 lot of doctor's appointments with his dad, 00:03:16.477 --> 00:03:17.176 I don't want to hear it. 00:03:17.818 --> 00:03:19.118 I just filled this out eleven times. 00:03:19.158 --> 00:03:20.219 I'm not filling it out a twelfth time. 00:03:20.419 --> 00:03:21.039 You do it. 00:03:21.219 --> 00:03:22.121 Write the information down. 00:03:22.140 --> 00:03:22.502 You copy. 00:03:22.542 --> 00:03:23.902 You transcribe that over. 00:03:23.923 --> 00:03:24.122 Exactly. 00:03:24.423 --> 00:03:26.284 Why do we have patients do a whole 00:03:26.324 --> 00:03:28.747 medical history and then walk in and be 00:03:28.787 --> 00:03:29.507 like, hey, 00:03:29.546 --> 00:03:30.807 so tell me about your medical history. 00:03:30.828 --> 00:03:32.770 What the hell did I write it down? 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:33.129 Lawyers? 00:03:33.250 --> 00:03:33.509 I don't know. 00:03:33.530 --> 00:03:34.311 Why did I take that time? 00:03:34.670 --> 00:03:36.152 So think about that from within the 00:03:36.233 --> 00:03:37.133 organization now, 00:03:37.173 --> 00:03:38.533 not just the patient experience, 00:03:38.574 --> 00:03:38.995 but also 00:03:39.335 --> 00:03:41.195 the provider experience or the front desk 00:03:41.256 --> 00:03:41.616 experience. 00:03:41.635 --> 00:03:43.896 And I'm not here to talk Jerry Durham's 00:03:44.337 --> 00:03:44.677 job. 00:03:45.358 --> 00:03:46.038 That's his gig. 00:03:46.057 --> 00:03:47.699 He'll fight you for it. 00:03:48.278 --> 00:03:48.639 Yeah, I know. 00:03:48.699 --> 00:03:48.979 He will. 00:03:49.099 --> 00:03:50.240 And he does an amazing job. 00:03:51.420 --> 00:03:53.342 But where I really come from in terms 00:03:53.461 --> 00:03:56.943 of burnout is that we have some basic 00:03:56.963 --> 00:03:58.705 fundamental human needs that we need to 00:03:58.764 --> 00:03:59.405 have met 00:03:59.881 --> 00:04:01.983 in our workplaces, in our family settings, 00:04:02.182 --> 00:04:02.924 where we are. 00:04:03.563 --> 00:04:05.866 And if the workplace is not looking at 00:04:05.906 --> 00:04:07.828 those basic fundamental human needs, 00:04:08.487 --> 00:04:11.450 then it's going to be not as fulfilling 00:04:11.550 --> 00:04:13.693 and more likely to promote burnout. 00:04:14.389 --> 00:04:16.850 And then, now, let's not stop there, 00:04:17.310 --> 00:04:19.892 because, hey man, suck it up, 00:04:19.952 --> 00:04:21.033 that's what I pay you for, 00:04:21.475 --> 00:04:23.576 but you'll probably lose people, 00:04:23.776 --> 00:04:24.677 which will cost you money. 00:04:24.896 --> 00:04:26.197 You won't get the most out of those 00:04:26.237 --> 00:04:27.639 people that'll cost you money. 00:04:28.420 --> 00:04:29.461 Probably other things I'm not thinking 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:30.040 about on the fly, 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:31.541 but I know you might be thinking, 00:04:31.642 --> 00:04:32.283 it's a suck it up, 00:04:32.322 --> 00:04:33.124 it's a you problem. 00:04:34.004 --> 00:04:34.365 My man, 00:04:34.384 --> 00:04:36.966 that is gonna show up on your PML. 00:04:37.146 --> 00:04:38.307 It shows up on your bottom line, 00:04:38.408 --> 00:04:38.987 absolutely. 00:04:39.048 --> 00:04:40.168 So a lot of people look at the 00:04:40.209 --> 00:04:40.810 direct cost. 00:04:40.829 --> 00:04:42.331 They look at what's easy to measure. 00:04:42.391 --> 00:04:43.432 Like what the tech costs? 00:04:43.851 --> 00:04:44.773 Not just the tech. 00:04:44.812 --> 00:04:47.033 So they look at their direct costs in 00:04:47.074 --> 00:04:48.754 terms of like, oh, I've had turnover. 00:04:49.055 --> 00:04:49.935 It's going to cost me one and a 00:04:49.954 --> 00:04:51.456 half times that person's salary, 00:04:51.915 --> 00:04:53.836 except that the indirect costs to the 00:04:53.896 --> 00:04:54.476 organization, 00:04:54.517 --> 00:04:59.399 thinking about the issues of how the team 00:04:59.439 --> 00:04:59.779 works, 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:01.500 the additional productivity demands that 00:05:01.521 --> 00:05:02.901 are put on the people that are left, 00:05:03.302 --> 00:05:06.264 the additional chaos that's created by not 00:05:06.363 --> 00:05:07.103 having that 00:05:07.584 --> 00:05:08.745 team environment, 00:05:11.187 --> 00:05:13.130 then your actual indirect costs plus 00:05:13.151 --> 00:05:13.891 direct costs, 00:05:13.992 --> 00:05:15.754 more like two to three times that person's 00:05:15.793 --> 00:05:16.254 salary. 00:05:16.473 --> 00:05:18.937 Plus like, you know, collateral damage. 00:05:19.096 --> 00:05:20.838 I'm doing that person's job for a month 00:05:20.978 --> 00:05:21.959 or now I got to train up a 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:22.420 new guy. 00:05:22.521 --> 00:05:24.463 I'm not assigned to train them up and 00:05:24.483 --> 00:05:25.043 I'm working with them. 00:05:25.064 --> 00:05:26.045 So I get how it works. 00:05:26.084 --> 00:05:26.766 I train them up now. 00:05:27.026 --> 00:05:27.425 Exactly. 00:05:27.505 --> 00:05:29.367 So you're really hemorrhaging money that 00:05:29.387 --> 00:05:31.908 you can't track in that regard. 00:05:32.228 --> 00:05:33.809 So one of the things that I do 00:05:34.088 --> 00:05:35.668 that I work a lot on is not 00:05:35.689 --> 00:05:36.709 just burnout prevention, 00:05:36.730 --> 00:05:38.971 but how do you create a workforce and 00:05:39.110 --> 00:05:41.851 a workplace that's really geared toward 00:05:42.172 --> 00:05:42.692 humans? 00:05:42.732 --> 00:05:44.473 Because we are humans working in the 00:05:44.512 --> 00:05:44.992 system, 00:05:45.572 --> 00:05:48.274 working with humans as coworkers and also 00:05:48.334 --> 00:05:49.095 with patients. 00:05:49.694 --> 00:05:51.276 OK, well, belonging, 00:05:51.975 --> 00:05:53.295 basic fundamental need. 00:05:53.315 --> 00:05:54.877 We all want to belong. 00:05:55.788 --> 00:05:57.411 and healthcare has a belonging problem. 00:05:57.853 --> 00:05:59.377 We show up at, 00:06:00.218 --> 00:06:01.581 let's say our shift starts at seven. 00:06:01.603 --> 00:06:03.105 We might show up at six forty-five, 00:06:03.848 --> 00:06:05.091 maybe six fifty-five. 00:06:06.209 --> 00:06:07.889 We sit down, we get our stuff together, 00:06:07.968 --> 00:06:08.889 we start seeing patients, 00:06:08.949 --> 00:06:10.009 we work with patients, 00:06:10.350 --> 00:06:11.649 we work through our lunch charting, 00:06:12.310 --> 00:06:13.290 we work with patients, 00:06:13.629 --> 00:06:14.651 and we get out of there as soon 00:06:14.690 --> 00:06:15.130 as we can. 00:06:15.190 --> 00:06:16.391 We might be there two hours, 00:06:16.690 --> 00:06:17.471 but we're still charting, 00:06:17.511 --> 00:06:18.391 not talking to anybody. 00:06:19.692 --> 00:06:22.112 Or we're leaving at the second that we're 00:06:22.151 --> 00:06:23.492 done, running home, 00:06:23.512 --> 00:06:24.692 taking care of our kids, 00:06:25.153 --> 00:06:26.812 taking care of dinner, whatever, 00:06:27.112 --> 00:06:28.233 connecting with our partners, 00:06:28.673 --> 00:06:30.553 and then charting until the late nights. 00:06:30.814 --> 00:06:32.774 I wonder why people are looking for the 00:06:32.793 --> 00:06:32.973 door. 00:06:33.365 --> 00:06:35.206 Exactly, because there's no team. 00:06:35.406 --> 00:06:37.108 You're a bunch of co-working people, 00:06:37.548 --> 00:06:37.708 right? 00:06:37.767 --> 00:06:39.470 I didn't sign up to be a co-worker. 00:06:39.850 --> 00:06:41.350 I didn't want to go to a co-working 00:06:41.391 --> 00:06:41.730 space. 00:06:42.052 --> 00:06:42.831 I'm not at WeWork. 00:06:43.512 --> 00:06:45.334 I want to go to my office where 00:06:45.374 --> 00:06:47.415 I have a team and where I can 00:06:47.456 --> 00:06:50.057 connect with people that I see every day. 00:06:50.117 --> 00:06:51.399 It's great to connect with patients, 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:53.279 but those patients leave. 00:06:53.521 --> 00:06:54.360 In an outpatient setting, 00:06:54.401 --> 00:06:55.922 those patients leave on average eight to 00:06:55.942 --> 00:06:56.502 twelve weeks. 00:06:57.062 --> 00:06:58.805 So now you have to spend energy 00:06:58.925 --> 00:07:00.266 reconnecting with new people. 00:07:00.786 --> 00:07:01.185 It's great. 00:07:01.427 --> 00:07:01.786 It's fun. 00:07:01.887 --> 00:07:02.507 I'm an extrovert. 00:07:02.586 --> 00:07:02.987 I love it. 00:07:03.786 --> 00:07:04.726 But at the same time, 00:07:05.127 --> 00:07:06.930 I want those long-term connections. 00:07:07.490 --> 00:07:09.394 I was talking with somebody earlier today, 00:07:09.754 --> 00:07:12.497 Elizabeth Rogers out of the Seattle area. 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:14.240 And she was talking about how she hung 00:07:14.321 --> 00:07:16.764 out this weekend before the conference 00:07:16.783 --> 00:07:18.947 started with all of her PT school friends 00:07:18.987 --> 00:07:20.249 and her first job friends. 00:07:21.434 --> 00:07:24.254 We don't have time to make friends in 00:07:24.295 --> 00:07:25.516 the workplace very often. 00:07:25.915 --> 00:07:28.896 So that's a very easy thing that doesn't 00:07:28.916 --> 00:07:32.017 cost a lot that workplaces can do is 00:07:32.257 --> 00:07:34.899 how do we build the community of our 00:07:34.939 --> 00:07:36.899 colleagues so that we're not just 00:07:36.939 --> 00:07:37.519 coworkers. 00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:38.519 You can work anywhere. 00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:39.841 I'm going to have to work somewhere. 00:07:40.161 --> 00:07:41.841 Maybe you want to work here. 00:07:41.901 --> 00:07:43.122 When you're talking with the right company 00:07:43.141 --> 00:07:44.442 that you consult for, 00:07:44.502 --> 00:07:45.902 how do you sort of – 00:07:46.603 --> 00:07:50.084 How do you explain that investing in all 00:07:50.125 --> 00:07:52.305 the things you just talked about is 00:07:52.386 --> 00:07:53.725 actually going to bring them the thing 00:07:53.766 --> 00:07:55.425 which is what they want? 00:07:55.625 --> 00:07:56.166 Well, 00:07:56.427 --> 00:07:58.266 what we all need in health care right 00:07:58.286 --> 00:08:01.887 now is stronger margins, right? 00:08:01.908 --> 00:08:03.088 Our reimbursement sucks. 00:08:03.288 --> 00:08:04.209 We're working on that. 00:08:04.288 --> 00:08:05.928 APTA has made that their number one 00:08:05.968 --> 00:08:08.069 priority now, which is fantastic. 00:08:09.310 --> 00:08:11.612 And so we're working on the reimbursement 00:08:11.632 --> 00:08:11.732 side. 00:08:11.771 --> 00:08:13.593 We're working on the systems that are at 00:08:13.612 --> 00:08:15.654 the higher level outside of our direct 00:08:15.694 --> 00:08:16.154 control. 00:08:16.675 --> 00:08:18.937 But what do we have direct control over? 00:08:19.416 --> 00:08:21.838 So looking at assessing where that 00:08:21.899 --> 00:08:22.959 organization is, 00:08:23.060 --> 00:08:25.701 making sure that it knows where are its 00:08:25.781 --> 00:08:26.182 leaks. 00:08:26.774 --> 00:08:27.675 not just financial, 00:08:28.295 --> 00:08:29.776 but also employee leaks, 00:08:29.857 --> 00:08:31.798 where is the emotional energy being 00:08:31.838 --> 00:08:36.081 drained, then aligning the organization, 00:08:36.101 --> 00:08:40.304 or assess, sorry, totally blanked, 00:08:40.325 --> 00:08:41.905 because I did three talks yesterday, 00:08:42.466 --> 00:08:43.748 and I have no brain left, 00:08:43.807 --> 00:08:44.948 so I'm still working on the coffee. 00:08:45.830 --> 00:08:48.413 So getting in and assessing and then 00:08:48.472 --> 00:08:50.054 aligning the organization and then 00:08:50.154 --> 00:08:51.416 activating the organization. 00:08:51.456 --> 00:08:53.318 So you're assessing the organization to 00:08:53.359 --> 00:08:54.580 see where are those leaks, 00:08:55.020 --> 00:08:56.863 aligning on what do we do next, 00:08:57.003 --> 00:08:58.845 and then activating it, making it happen. 00:08:58.965 --> 00:09:00.706 You have to get several people probably in 00:09:00.767 --> 00:09:01.948 different departments to agree 00:09:03.472 --> 00:09:04.452 That this is a problem. 00:09:04.634 --> 00:09:06.433 Hello, I'm Jimmy and I have a problem. 00:09:06.653 --> 00:09:07.514 And we have to agree that this is 00:09:07.554 --> 00:09:09.216 a problem and that we are gonna invest 00:09:09.255 --> 00:09:09.995 in this solution. 00:09:10.275 --> 00:09:11.296 Yeah, absolutely. 00:09:11.856 --> 00:09:13.596 So what that comes down to is it's 00:09:13.636 --> 00:09:15.197 not like, oh wow, 00:09:15.258 --> 00:09:16.578 I really wanna be nicer to my people. 00:09:17.698 --> 00:09:18.600 Most people have that. 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:20.640 Most of us go into this profession because 00:09:20.660 --> 00:09:22.783 we care about humans and we're altruistic. 00:09:23.102 --> 00:09:24.183 So we're going to go for that. 00:09:24.344 --> 00:09:24.965 Absolutely. 00:09:25.504 --> 00:09:26.605 And at the same time, 00:09:27.547 --> 00:09:29.168 it really comes down to how does this 00:09:29.268 --> 00:09:31.330 impact your business outcomes? 00:09:31.529 --> 00:09:33.230 How does this impact your KPIs? 00:09:34.072 --> 00:09:36.232 Are you measuring the right things for 00:09:36.273 --> 00:09:37.153 your KPIs? 00:09:37.594 --> 00:09:39.255 I made a spicy statement in one of 00:09:39.275 --> 00:09:40.155 my talks yesterday. 00:09:40.235 --> 00:09:42.857 Ooh, spice it up. 00:09:42.998 --> 00:09:43.219 Yeah. 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:44.318 And it got some reaction. 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:46.841 I fundamentally believe that productivity 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:47.501 is the wrong measure. 00:09:47.929 --> 00:09:48.370 What is? 00:09:48.551 --> 00:09:49.371 Okay, keep going. 00:09:49.471 --> 00:09:50.212 What is the right measure? 00:09:50.312 --> 00:09:52.556 You have to think about what drives 00:09:52.596 --> 00:09:54.298 productivity, right? 00:09:54.317 --> 00:09:56.039 Because measuring productivity, 00:09:56.059 --> 00:09:57.100 which is something that physical 00:09:57.140 --> 00:09:57.741 therapists, 00:09:57.861 --> 00:10:00.384 the clinicians themselves have really very 00:10:00.445 --> 00:10:01.547 little control over, 00:10:02.226 --> 00:10:04.190 measuring productivity doesn't really 00:10:04.289 --> 00:10:05.851 incentivize more work. 00:10:07.014 --> 00:10:09.394 What does incentivize more work is a 00:10:09.434 --> 00:10:11.235 shared goal, a shared mission, 00:10:11.654 --> 00:10:15.035 a sense of belonging, good communication. 00:10:15.436 --> 00:10:19.037 And so measuring things like net promoter 00:10:19.076 --> 00:10:21.496 scores from your employees, so ENPS. 00:10:22.258 --> 00:10:24.518 Measuring quality of life at work, 00:10:24.557 --> 00:10:26.178 so using the Gallup Q-Twelve, 00:10:26.219 --> 00:10:27.658 Fred Gilbert from Gallup. 00:10:27.958 --> 00:10:29.720 movement x does checking in with your 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:31.621 people to see what's going to work best 00:10:32.101 --> 00:10:35.283 what do they need more of um and 00:10:35.344 --> 00:10:37.885 finding low-cost ways to do that because 00:10:37.926 --> 00:10:40.748 it doesn't have to be expensive and it's 00:10:40.827 --> 00:10:42.769 not a pizza party you talked about this 00:10:42.869 --> 00:10:44.451 last week i made a i made a 00:10:44.551 --> 00:10:46.432 very successful video about six months ago 00:10:46.491 --> 00:10:47.852 where i did one of those where you're 00:10:47.873 --> 00:10:49.494 like you're playing two characters and 00:10:50.221 --> 00:10:51.461 It apparently resonated with people 00:10:51.501 --> 00:10:53.062 because apparently pizza is the go-to. 00:10:53.543 --> 00:10:54.543 Pizza is the go-to. 00:10:54.623 --> 00:10:55.283 Yeah, pizza's great. 00:10:55.303 --> 00:10:56.004 I'm from New York. 00:10:56.024 --> 00:10:57.443 Listen, love me some pizza. 00:10:57.504 --> 00:10:58.063 That is not a, 00:10:58.083 --> 00:10:58.985 that's not a fan date. 00:10:59.225 --> 00:10:59.404 Yeah. 00:10:59.764 --> 00:11:01.865 I have a friend who's a clinician in 00:11:01.965 --> 00:11:05.265 a large hospital system. 00:11:06.466 --> 00:11:08.626 And their holiday party used to be this 00:11:08.706 --> 00:11:10.908 big fancy thing at a local, 00:11:11.087 --> 00:11:11.967 I live in Bend, Oregon. 00:11:11.988 --> 00:11:12.908 We have lots of resorts. 00:11:12.969 --> 00:11:14.729 So they would rent out this big local 00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:16.690 resort through this big bash and 00:11:17.350 --> 00:11:19.371 And then that was every year. 00:11:19.432 --> 00:11:20.614 And they felt really celebrated. 00:11:20.653 --> 00:11:21.815 They felt really valued. 00:11:22.355 --> 00:11:24.118 And the next year, one year, 00:11:24.177 --> 00:11:25.919 it suddenly changed to like lunch. 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:27.601 And then the following year, 00:11:27.642 --> 00:11:28.822 it was pizza in the break room. 00:11:28.842 --> 00:11:30.325 And they were like, what happened? 00:11:30.404 --> 00:11:31.525 It's a cost-cutting measure. 00:11:32.307 --> 00:11:33.967 But what it did was it made everyone 00:11:33.988 --> 00:11:36.229 feel devalued and they hemorrhaged 00:11:36.649 --> 00:11:37.149 clinicians. 00:11:37.188 --> 00:11:39.730 They lost two-thirds of their people in a 00:11:39.769 --> 00:11:41.410 single year after that pizza party. 00:11:41.431 --> 00:11:42.571 It wasn't the pizza party's fault, 00:11:42.890 --> 00:11:44.072 but it certainly did not help. 00:11:44.211 --> 00:11:46.633 Well, it manifested the pizza party. 00:11:46.852 --> 00:11:47.332 It's a symbol. 00:11:47.373 --> 00:11:48.533 And it probably showed up other places 00:11:48.613 --> 00:11:48.873 too. 00:11:49.094 --> 00:11:49.693 Yeah, absolutely. 00:11:49.714 --> 00:11:51.134 It's just the most visible was the party. 00:11:51.153 --> 00:11:51.835 Absolutely. 00:11:51.875 --> 00:11:52.894 So we're doing quick episodes. 00:11:52.914 --> 00:11:53.875 We could talk to you for a while, 00:11:53.894 --> 00:11:54.855 but we're going to do a parting shot 00:11:54.895 --> 00:11:55.155 now. 00:11:55.176 --> 00:11:56.817 You've already said a spicy statement, 00:11:56.836 --> 00:11:57.697 so you can't reuse that. 00:11:57.777 --> 00:11:58.956 What would your parting shot be now? 00:11:58.976 --> 00:12:00.457 I'm... 00:12:02.105 --> 00:12:03.306 Oh boy, I had, 00:12:03.605 --> 00:12:04.807 that was my parting shot. 00:12:04.846 --> 00:12:06.368 All right, so reiterate this. 00:12:06.508 --> 00:12:06.727 Yeah, 00:12:06.908 --> 00:12:09.210 so healthcare is a belonging problem and 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:10.750 it also has a hierarchy problem. 00:12:11.451 --> 00:12:13.471 And we need to break the hierarchy of 00:12:13.511 --> 00:12:13.993 healthcare. 00:12:14.493 --> 00:12:16.453 And you know, my last name's Flexner. 00:12:16.955 --> 00:12:17.835 I don't know if you've heard about the 00:12:17.875 --> 00:12:18.655 Flexner Report. 00:12:19.056 --> 00:12:21.357 if not the flexner report was what created 00:12:21.418 --> 00:12:23.340 medical education and our hierarchical 00:12:23.379 --> 00:12:26.243 healthcare system so great we need a 00:12:26.283 --> 00:12:27.884 flexner report two point oh i'm not 00:12:27.903 --> 00:12:29.466 writing it i know some people who should 00:12:29.905 --> 00:12:32.249 um but we need a flexner report two 00:12:32.288 --> 00:12:34.490 point oh that reframes healthcare as an 00:12:34.630 --> 00:12:37.974 interprofessional collaborative experience 00:12:38.354 --> 00:12:41.116 because right now the top down in acute 00:12:41.397 --> 00:12:41.918 health care 00:12:42.378 --> 00:12:43.658 You need that top-down, 00:12:43.698 --> 00:12:45.820 you need that chain of command, right? 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:49.182 You need physicians to make quick 00:12:49.221 --> 00:12:50.961 decisions and everyone's on board 00:12:51.022 --> 00:12:52.003 following orders. 00:12:52.442 --> 00:12:52.783 Got it. 00:12:53.844 --> 00:12:56.225 We work in chronic issues. 00:12:56.725 --> 00:12:57.966 We don't work in that top-down 00:12:58.005 --> 00:12:58.566 environment. 00:12:59.047 --> 00:13:02.207 We have opportunity to support physicians 00:13:02.307 --> 00:13:03.769 in things like primary care physical 00:13:03.808 --> 00:13:04.249 therapy. 00:13:04.789 --> 00:13:06.129 But because of the hierarchy, 00:13:06.169 --> 00:13:08.370 we're blocked from creating more health. 00:13:09.052 --> 00:13:10.532 So we have a hierarchy problem that we 00:13:10.552 --> 00:13:11.452 need to solve in healthcare. 00:13:11.957 --> 00:13:12.857 If someone wanted to get in touch with 00:13:12.878 --> 00:13:13.678 you, I'll put it in the show notes, 00:13:13.698 --> 00:13:15.359 but where would you send them? 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:16.178 On LinkedIn, 00:13:16.278 --> 00:13:19.559 lisa-flexner-dpt or 00:13:19.659 --> 00:13:21.701 flexhealthconsulting.com. 00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:23.520 Those are the best ways to get a 00:13:23.561 --> 00:13:24.020 hold of me. 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:25.581 Get yourself some relaxation. 00:13:25.861 --> 00:13:28.881 Get yourself some human time and enjoy the 00:13:28.902 --> 00:13:29.261 CSM. 00:13:29.562 --> 00:13:30.222 You too, man. 00:13:30.322 --> 00:13:31.302 Lisa Flexner, thanks for coming.