Don't screw it up.
You're listening to the PT Pinecast,
where smart people in healthcare come to
make noise.
Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.
She spent over four decades helping kids
move better, think sharper,
and live fuller lives.
With a heart for mentorship and a clinic
full of purpose,
now she's pouring her energy into helping
the next generation of PTs recognize the
huge functional impact we can have on
conditions like dyspraxia, EDS,
and executive functioning challenges.
She also once ran a backyard empire of
seventy-eight guinea birds.
I'm not a hundred percent sure if I
know what that is.
I'll have to Google it.
But these days,
it's all about growing clinicians.
And not just birds.
Sherry Woodson joins us on the show right
now.
Sherry, welcome to the program.
Thank you.
Are there any guinea birds within arm's
length that we could see?
I mean, I'll Google it later,
but what is a guinea bird?
Can you describe?
That is, it looks like a chicken.
Got it.
Out of Africa,
but they eat a huge number of ticks.
And we have...
a huge number of ticks.
So you were, these were operational.
These, this was a purpose.
They were not just, not just look cute,
but all right.
So I mentioned in your intro and before
we hit record, you said your,
your real passion.
is treating,
but really it's mentoring and creating
more leaders.
What sort of prompted that?
Where's that come from, from you?
And what does that give you?
And what do you think it gives the
future of our profession?
I think what prompted that is through the
years,
often work next to individuals that kind
of poured into me and I could pour
back into them and realize how that made
me
more well-rounded clinician.
It allowed me to look outside the box.
I got questioned,
which makes you not step,
I guess it makes you step back,
but it makes you delve into information
more.
And then also saw how the population that
we could serve was either changing or
maybe I just didn't
didn't see it initially.
And so wanted to share that so that
the next generation could also kind of
learn from both my mistakes and those
successes out there.
Sure.
And kind of speed that critical thinking
part up.
I know I'd read a research
article that talked about it took five
years for the average PT to become a
really critical thinker in their practice.
And I was like,
how can we speed that up?
And we've really operationalized it,
not so much me, but my executive team.
What are all the steps that need to
be taken to do that?
Um, so what are they or big picture?
What are a couple of the big levers
that you see from the mentor side,
knowing that there's going to be some
people out there going, yeah,
I want to do this,
but also the people on the side going,
how can I improve?
So what are those things that people
listening now,
both mentors and mentees or potential
mentors and potential mentees can focus
on?
Where's, where's the,
where's the biggest lever?
I think one is, you know,
there's so much that has to be taught
in
PT school and then translating that to
practice.
So they may have gotten a clinical
experience in pediatrics.
It may have included a vast population.
It may have included a variety of
diagnostic groups,
but the chances are also that the
clinician they were with only,
I think the requirement is one year of
experience.
before you can become a clinical
instructor,
or they may have really specialized in an
area.
So then going through and looking at what
are those core proficiencies that they
need and operationalizing that,
listing those,
looking at all the other elements that go
into
I think serving children a little
different than serving adults of working
with caregivers and listening to what the
problems are at home.
And then, you know,
being able to provide clinical education
or caregiver education,
caregiver coaching,
I think is a better word.
Coaching and collaboration is what we do
is we have to know what we're doing
and why we're doing it and what our
hands are doing.
And, you know, what are the things that,
that make being a parent more successful
or make them feel more successful,
which is different than being a therapist.
You know, like what, what part of that,
I don't want to make them many therapists
or many parents, the parents,
many therapists.
And so, you know,
you ask a therapist and they're just
trying to,
a new therapist is trying to kind of
share what they just did.
So you're setting you up.
This was my next question on the list.
How do you help families understand the
need for therapy when a child might not
have a formal diagnosis?
How do you approach that?
What's the conversation like?
How do you even start a conversation with
someone who's like, well,
we don't have a diagnosis.
So where does this start?
This is a communication issue.
It's a communication issue.
What I love to do is help
Like if I get a four year old,
I can almost kind of share with the
parent what they look like at one, two,
and three.
That was different than what most other
parents' kids look like.
So you can kind of go,
so then they're going, oh yeah.
And so you can share what probably the
future might look like and where the
little building blocks or how their child
may process information differently or,
And so we kind of go through that.
I think that's one that's a real buy-in
for parents.
I also sometimes do the same if I'm
treating torticollis, which is a,
you know, I call it the gateway diagnosis.
It's a gateway into, yes,
it might be sternocleidomastoid tightness,
but that's very,
I would say that's not that many of
them.
That's where all the literature is going
to be on because that's a homogeneous
diagnosis.
group that they can pick,
but it could also be, um, hemiparesis.
It can also be, um,
that they just got some tightness from,
um, sitting in those like container,
you know,
the container babies that we have now.
Um,
and so we kind of go through that
and I usually go over and show a
parent on them like, okay, if I,
if I put you in this position, what,
what does it change for you?
Um,
And so it's been fun recently,
probably in the last couple of years,
to also look at how something so simple
as a little tightness of the capital
extensors impacts a mom who's trying to
nurse a baby at usually about four months
and how they sometimes have to give up
at that point because of all the changes
that go on,
like
moms don't hold baby's heads as much.
And they, so they,
we expect as the breast empties, you know,
the baby to make all these tiny little
adjustments, but if they have tightness,
they can't do that.
So they start pulling off and pulling off
and you're going, Oh, well that,
that was a, that was maybe to visit,
you know, change this week.
And then they have it.
So the other one would be looking at
dyspraxia and what that, and that's,
that's probably a word that PT's,
may use or may not use but we
look at a group of kids and it's
not they're not moving and why aren't they
moving they don't have cerebral palsy
they're not moving and we start looking at
it going okay we can see this at
four more what is that and that's that
kid that i call it like the deer
in the headlights sometimes they you see
them wanting to do something but they
can't do it and i've
I've gone, you know,
so we break that down and start looking
at that with new clinicians.
I often say,
what if we could go to a playground,
a recess and go, okay,
all these children that are circling the
playground,
I think they would like to participate.
I can't imagine that they don't want to,
but what's keeping them from being able to
do that?
You know, is it a coordination issue?
Yeah,
because they feel clumsy compared to the
other kids.
Or is it they cannot,
they don't have the praxis to do it.
You mentioned PT schools a second ago.
What do you think PT schools miss?
They have to teach so much so we
can go an inch deep, a mile wide,
but an inch deep.
Specifically about peds, right?
A lot of programs might not have a
very robust class just simply because of
not having maybe a pediatric PT on staff.
So what are the things that you think
PT schools could do better?
That's, you know,
this is a person who graduated with a
bachelor's, remember, as a PT.
Okay.
Forty-eight years ago.
I went and did go back and get
a master's at the University of Kentucky
just because I wanted to know more when
I was there and kind of combined it
with a, took some med school neuro class,
you know,
they let me in those classes and put
some other things together and there's,
a personal prep grant that was out there
looking at how do we serve children?
And so I went through that.
And so I sometimes am like,
I get it that there's so much content
that they need to share.
I wish there were more internships for
people when they got out of school.
I wonder if
I don't know, man,
you go to school forever as a doctor.
I have a daughter who's also a PT,
pediatric PT, very strong in ortho.
And I'm like,
what would I change for them?
Yeah, sure.
I wish there was a great answer to
that because then do you take away from
the ortho?
Do you take away from that?
I think it's the clinicians in the field.
we we have to think more robustly about
those individuals who come to us as and
want um take a clinical you know an
eight-week clinical ten-week clinical or
twelve-week clinical which uh whatever the
schools get um have and that because we
have like we've put that together at ours
and i know a couple other um clinics
that have done that as well where there's
We try to mix them up with other
therapists so that they have the
opportunity to see a group of,
a larger group of types of patients.
And I don't even,
I haven't looked at what the APTA is
requiring within the curriculum now.
I mean,
I know it's a really robust group of
objectives.
that I even did for the PTA program.
So I'm like,
I can't even imagine what they're doing
there.
But I think it's trying to,
I know they go across,
they do those lifespan things.
I mean,
I think I would have fun going in
and talking to an ortho group about all
the orthopedic changes that go on during
the first two years of life and the
development isn't occurring consistently.
quite right, you know,
why you would have a different,
why you might have tibial torsion issues
or why, which tells me, you know,
likelihood, if it's not hereditary,
of what muscular pulls weren't on the
tibia.
Same thing with the hip, you know,
our hips starts out with very small amount
of angle.
What are the developmental things that
occurred during that time with adductors
pulling it down so that the angle,
Is it increased or decreased, you know?
And the,
the femoral anteversion kind of changes
that go on.
I think that's the part that I would
love to see kind of woven in.
And it's exciting because if you're an
adult PT, you go, Oh,
I bet this has been a,
this has been a long time issue,
you know, and they have a different,
biomechanics, could I put it that way?
So those are the kinds of things that
I think could be interwoven more
successfully for both ends,
for the PEDS therapist,
as well as the ortho at the other
end.
So Sherry, you've seen decades of change,
but what's one myth about pediatric
therapy that's still around that we've
outgrown that if you could just bring on
the eraser, you'd remove?
What's the thing that comes up the most
that you wind up correcting pretty often?
I think it's probably looking at a skill
and not breaking down all the,
it's just looking at
Like you said,
when we were talking earlier about making
it fun and that it's play,
but being really purposeful in that and
thinking, I always think,
so I don't always see it as purposeful.
Like what am I doing that's gonna make
a difference in this kid for tomorrow or
in the family and their engagement?
That's a myth of thinking, okay,
I can just take this child and I
can,
I can play with them and they're going
to have a great day.
And yes,
we're going to work on a skill versus
going through and going, all right,
like what,
why is this child not progressing?
Or if they don't make the following
changes that we're going to see, um,
a group of problems,
a different kind of group of problems.
Um,
I think it's getting down to the real
etiology of issues.
Like, why isn't that kid moving?
Is he dyspraxic?
Is he weak?
Is he tight?
And addressing that.
And they should be treated very
differently.
And I think,
I don't know if that answered your
question.
I think we know a lot more now
than we used to.
And I think...
Listeners love strategies and takeaways,
specific things, right?
What are two things they can do tomorrow
maybe to better support kids with motor
planning or executive functioning
challenges?
The kids you had the pleasure of working
with, with your organization,
two things real quick.
And I probably do dyspraxia and I'd look
at access and think about it's yes,
they cannot ride a bike or yes,
they cannot.
um,
go and look at a piece of playground
equipment and just go get on it.
I wouldn't go put them on it.
I'd really start thinking about like,
what are the, what are the, um,
what are the, what's the plan?
What's this, what,
where do they need to be helped as
far as sequencing?
Um, it's a processing issue versus a,
a body structure issue.
Right.
And I think that's, um,
looking at things that if I should have
given you an example of a play,
looking at a play structure and going,
I can't just model how to do that.
There's twenty kids going up and down and
this child can't do it.
And so it's going, OK,
how do we go through that and teach
them each part of that?
But then also giving them a chance to
process that.
and not let them get stuck in it.
And so I always think dyspraxia children,
I do not, I never,
I always go and put my hands on
them.
And as soon as they look at something
and they even indicate there's an
interest, I help them see how they,
their body can engage with that.
Because they don't have imitation skills
and we don't,
and that's something we can't even
imagine.
So that body awareness part,
And then breaking sequences down for them
so that they're successful.
Does that make sense with that?
Totally.
Because you do have to put your hands
on those kids and you have to do
it quick.
Because sometimes we see them twirling
their hands and twirling their feet.
And we think, oh, that's autism.
And it's like,
I would say majority of children with
autism have dyspraxia.
but not all children with dyspraxia are
autistic.
And so realizing that sometimes those are
communicative behaviors that I just can't,
I can't figure out what you're doing and
what I have in my repertoire is these
repetitive movements.
Sherry,
we have a tradition on the show called
the parting shot.
Are you ready for the parting shot?
Go for it.
This is the parting shot.
One last mic drop moment.
No pressure.
Just your legacy on the line.
The bar's low.
It's not high.
Just your legacy.
But what's one thing you'd want to leave
with the audience as we wrap up?
What's the thing you'd want them to take
away, right?
We remember the last thing we heard
typically.
What I would,
I want them to take away.
I would say to really utilize all the,
everything in your repertoire of treatment
strategies.
And if you don't have a large one,
get, keep working on that.
And look at, you know,
how people are using e-STEM and how
they're using, oh, I don't like to,
some reflexes and go, oh,
is there something different than
inhibiting that?
Were they there?
They were there for a purpose.
Let's figure out what that purpose was.
And people have done that and use that
to help children.
And I'd say never get stuck in a
box.
I think that's something that has made
probably why I'm still a practitioner
after forty five years is that there
wasn't a box.
that I got stuck in,
that there's always something new to
learn.
And whether that's from another clinician
or from a child or from a new
therapist, I always say,
who's the kid that taught you the most
this year?
You know, with other clinicians.
So that's that's one of my most enjoyable
things is who taught me the most.
And they would look at it.
Sherry, appreciate what you're doing.
for the people that you get to do
it with.
And by people, I mean kids, parents,
other PTs, the local community.
So thanks for doing what you're doing in
your little corner of Arkansas.
Thank you.
That's it for this one,
but we're just getting warmed up.
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And legally, none of this was advice.
It's for entertainment purposes only.
Bullshit!
See, Keith?
We read the script.
Happy now?