WEBVTT 00:00:00.029 --> 00:00:02.571 You're listening to the P.T. 00:00:02.591 --> 00:00:02.750 Pinecast, 00:00:02.770 --> 00:00:04.472 where smart people in healthcare come to 00:00:04.492 --> 00:00:10.095 make noise. 00:00:10.115 --> 00:00:10.794 Here's your host, Jimmy McKay. 00:00:10.814 --> 00:00:11.416 Here's your host, Jimmy McKay, 00:00:11.435 --> 00:00:13.196 still pushing buttons as we go live. 00:00:13.356 --> 00:00:13.977 And we're live. 00:00:14.057 --> 00:00:14.518 There we are. 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:17.199 Sky Donovan, Mike Ring, 00:00:17.278 --> 00:00:19.339 welcome to your live stream from Graham 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:19.740 Sessions. 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:20.861 Thanks, Jimmy. 00:00:20.881 --> 00:00:22.042 This is your first Graham Sessions? 00:00:22.062 --> 00:00:22.681 It is, yeah. 00:00:22.722 --> 00:00:23.402 This is your first? 00:00:23.422 --> 00:00:24.283 My first. 00:00:24.323 --> 00:00:24.803 Look at this. 00:00:25.283 --> 00:00:26.164 Very odd to me. 00:00:26.184 --> 00:00:26.464 That's weird. 00:00:27.431 --> 00:00:30.239 Because you're very elbow-rubby in APTA. 00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:32.323 But I don't own a private practice. 00:00:32.344 --> 00:00:33.085 Oh, that's a good point. 00:00:33.125 --> 00:00:34.088 Yeah, but you're a big thinker. 00:00:35.091 --> 00:00:36.493 I like to think I think. 00:00:37.060 --> 00:00:38.100 I think you're right. 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:39.860 We're going very Dr. Seuss here. 00:00:39.941 --> 00:00:40.121 All right. 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:40.220 Yeah. 00:00:40.561 --> 00:00:41.420 So that is a good point. 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:43.341 I just see I know you're in academics, 00:00:43.381 --> 00:00:43.761 but to me, 00:00:43.801 --> 00:00:45.561 you're sort of everywhere in PT. 00:00:45.822 --> 00:00:47.042 But Mike, background, 00:00:47.101 --> 00:00:47.962 back of the baseball card. 00:00:48.042 --> 00:00:49.002 How long you own your practice? 00:00:49.521 --> 00:00:50.082 Sixteen years. 00:00:50.243 --> 00:00:50.603 Yeah. 00:00:50.662 --> 00:00:51.283 Sixteen years. 00:00:51.302 --> 00:00:51.762 Good for you. 00:00:51.802 --> 00:00:53.442 Our second location, actually, 00:00:53.463 --> 00:00:54.082 December four. 00:00:54.722 --> 00:00:55.984 Can you see it from here? 00:00:56.363 --> 00:00:58.404 You can't quite close. 00:00:58.423 --> 00:01:00.524 It's not close enough to see. 00:01:00.545 --> 00:01:01.005 Close enough. 00:01:02.704 --> 00:01:04.727 All right, so why'd you come? 00:01:04.768 --> 00:01:07.150 How was this framed for you as a 00:01:07.189 --> 00:01:07.771 practice owner? 00:01:08.492 --> 00:01:09.192 I was thinking about this. 00:01:09.212 --> 00:01:11.155 A lot of practice owners in there. 00:01:11.194 --> 00:01:13.537 Leaving a practice for a day is hard. 00:01:13.558 --> 00:01:14.859 Your business is going on. 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.703 So how was this framed for you to 00:01:17.742 --> 00:01:18.483 come to something like this? 00:01:18.504 --> 00:01:19.525 What did you expect, 00:01:19.686 --> 00:01:20.867 and then what has been delivered? 00:01:22.429 --> 00:01:22.868 To be honest, 00:01:23.289 --> 00:01:25.010 this was the first time I knew this 00:01:25.090 --> 00:01:25.751 existed. 00:01:25.850 --> 00:01:28.331 I literally had no idea that Graham 00:01:28.352 --> 00:01:29.152 Sessions was a thing. 00:01:29.591 --> 00:01:32.373 I got an email from private practice 00:01:32.394 --> 00:01:32.713 section. 00:01:32.793 --> 00:01:33.573 And so I don't know if it was 00:01:33.614 --> 00:01:35.674 because I was at the past couple of 00:01:36.135 --> 00:01:39.216 PPS meetings or how I got on the 00:01:39.257 --> 00:01:39.897 list, but I did. 00:01:40.418 --> 00:01:41.358 I looked at the content. 00:01:41.378 --> 00:01:42.558 I was like, actually, you know what? 00:01:42.578 --> 00:01:43.099 That's kind of cool. 00:01:43.679 --> 00:01:44.659 And it actually worked out great because I 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:45.760 don't see patients on Friday anyway. 00:01:45.802 --> 00:01:46.302 Jackpot. 00:01:48.144 --> 00:01:50.506 And then Sky, APJ vice president, 00:01:50.686 --> 00:01:52.528 you get brought to lots of different 00:01:52.569 --> 00:01:53.709 things in the corner of PT. 00:01:55.010 --> 00:01:57.933 Being in PT for a long time, right, 00:01:57.953 --> 00:01:58.515 in the profession. 00:01:58.534 --> 00:01:59.415 Are you calling me old? 00:01:59.436 --> 00:01:59.475 No. 00:01:59.495 --> 00:02:02.399 Walked right into that one. 00:02:02.418 --> 00:02:02.539 Good. 00:02:02.558 --> 00:02:02.718 But no, 00:02:02.939 --> 00:02:03.921 you've been in PT for how long? 00:02:03.941 --> 00:02:05.001 Been around a long time. 00:02:06.331 --> 00:02:07.052 Uh, not as long as you think. 00:02:07.072 --> 00:02:07.691 Orthopedics, academics? 00:02:07.712 --> 00:02:08.151 Yeah, I mean, 00:02:08.231 --> 00:02:10.272 I've been a PT since two thousand three. 00:02:10.372 --> 00:02:10.453 Okay. 00:02:10.473 --> 00:02:11.753 So twenty three years. 00:02:11.794 --> 00:02:13.014 So, uh, 00:02:13.054 --> 00:02:14.634 what were you expecting and what are you 00:02:14.694 --> 00:02:16.195 seeing from, I mean, you're like, 00:02:16.235 --> 00:02:17.475 you're sort of like the down the middle 00:02:17.496 --> 00:02:19.037 person this is designed for and you're 00:02:19.076 --> 00:02:19.356 not, 00:02:19.396 --> 00:02:21.657 which means you're both going to look at 00:02:21.937 --> 00:02:23.359 what is going on here differently. 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:25.819 So what did you expect was going to 00:02:25.860 --> 00:02:26.120 happen? 00:02:27.610 --> 00:02:29.413 What did I expect was going to happen 00:02:29.832 --> 00:02:30.514 has happened, 00:02:30.614 --> 00:02:32.195 was that I was going to hear totally 00:02:32.216 --> 00:02:33.556 different perspectives than I usually 00:02:33.576 --> 00:02:33.817 hear. 00:02:33.956 --> 00:02:35.919 So I love conferences like this because 00:02:36.139 --> 00:02:40.144 I'm not exposed to this kind of lens 00:02:40.864 --> 00:02:44.407 and thought about their everyday lives. 00:02:45.128 --> 00:02:46.050 And also the meta, 00:02:46.169 --> 00:02:47.911 like how can we change things so they're 00:02:47.931 --> 00:02:48.570 better for the future? 00:02:48.610 --> 00:02:50.473 So that has been really good for me. 00:02:50.492 --> 00:02:53.134 And I got to meet a ton of 00:02:53.155 --> 00:02:54.395 people that I've never met before. 00:02:54.414 --> 00:02:55.735 So I always love that. 00:02:55.776 --> 00:02:57.518 This isn't the area you're normally in. 00:02:57.638 --> 00:02:58.777 Yeah, so I get to listen a lot, 00:02:58.798 --> 00:02:59.618 which is so cool. 00:02:59.758 --> 00:03:01.139 When you looked at the agenda, 00:03:02.100 --> 00:03:03.801 as a practice owner, what made you say, 00:03:04.162 --> 00:03:06.524 ooh, yeah, let's drill down on this. 00:03:06.563 --> 00:03:07.063 That's exciting. 00:03:07.304 --> 00:03:08.344 Yeah, so there were a couple things. 00:03:08.625 --> 00:03:11.146 One was the opportunity to hear a little 00:03:11.167 --> 00:03:12.388 bit more about 00:03:13.492 --> 00:03:17.235 the APTA's decisions specifically with DEI 00:03:17.276 --> 00:03:18.156 stuff, right? 00:03:19.197 --> 00:03:20.318 So that was very interesting to me. 00:03:20.397 --> 00:03:22.079 And then a couple of other pieces were, 00:03:22.598 --> 00:03:22.899 you know, 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:26.001 talking about where we are with 00:03:26.502 --> 00:03:27.622 reimbursement, honestly, 00:03:27.641 --> 00:03:28.543 where we are with reimbursement, 00:03:28.603 --> 00:03:30.204 how we're going about changing things, 00:03:30.745 --> 00:03:31.444 what our plan is, 00:03:31.485 --> 00:03:32.306 what are some of the options. 00:03:33.826 --> 00:03:34.826 One of the things that I'd like to 00:03:34.847 --> 00:03:36.748 hear a little more, quite honestly. 00:03:36.769 --> 00:03:37.848 That's my next question. 00:03:37.868 --> 00:03:39.250 Keep going, keep going. 00:03:40.691 --> 00:03:43.092 We've talked a lot about the what's wrong. 00:03:44.253 --> 00:03:45.433 and I'd like to hear a little bit 00:03:45.473 --> 00:03:47.455 more about here's some options. 00:03:47.596 --> 00:03:48.817 Here's some solutions. 00:03:49.317 --> 00:03:49.957 So we know it's wrong. 00:03:50.657 --> 00:03:52.038 We know reimbursement's declining. 00:03:52.058 --> 00:03:53.699 We know we're having a harder and harder 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:53.840 time. 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:54.580 We're getting squeezed. 00:03:54.621 --> 00:03:56.401 We're one of the very few industries that 00:03:57.182 --> 00:03:59.443 is not tied to inflation. 00:04:00.064 --> 00:04:01.265 I can raise my prices all I want. 00:04:01.846 --> 00:04:02.907 I'm not going to get paid a dime 00:04:02.967 --> 00:04:04.608 more just because inflation went up. 00:04:05.489 --> 00:04:06.248 So how do we combat that? 00:04:06.669 --> 00:04:07.469 So I'd like to hear a little bit 00:04:07.509 --> 00:04:08.770 more of that kind of conversation, 00:04:09.151 --> 00:04:10.431 and maybe we will today or tomorrow. 00:04:10.551 --> 00:04:11.271 In what format? 00:04:11.391 --> 00:04:13.332 Like people who've done stuff and then 00:04:13.353 --> 00:04:14.794 they walk you backwards and reverse 00:04:14.854 --> 00:04:15.474 engineer that for you? 00:04:15.754 --> 00:04:16.175 Correct. 00:04:16.214 --> 00:04:16.514 Exactly. 00:04:16.675 --> 00:04:16.995 Exactly. 00:04:17.014 --> 00:04:18.196 So we know there's a couple options out 00:04:18.216 --> 00:04:19.156 there and we've heard a lot of those 00:04:19.276 --> 00:04:21.057 options that they exist and maybe we 00:04:21.076 --> 00:04:21.918 didn't know they existed. 00:04:22.057 --> 00:04:23.978 But I'd like to hear some more about 00:04:24.098 --> 00:04:24.639 how do you get there? 00:04:24.658 --> 00:04:25.480 How do you get from point A to 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:25.839 point B? 00:04:25.899 --> 00:04:26.100 Right. 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:28.541 that's why like a show like bar rescue 00:04:28.942 --> 00:04:30.182 is kind of cool i mean i know 00:04:30.223 --> 00:04:31.644 it's you know it's sort of set up 00:04:31.684 --> 00:04:33.024 right but it's like we go in there 00:04:33.125 --> 00:04:34.605 and there's the glaring problem john 00:04:34.646 --> 00:04:36.726 taffrey yells and screams but they do a 00:04:36.788 --> 00:04:38.369 pressure test everything explodes the 00:04:38.389 --> 00:04:40.709 owner loses their mind but then they go 00:04:40.810 --> 00:04:41.790 all right now here's how we're going to 00:04:41.810 --> 00:04:44.153 fix it and i really like when they 00:04:44.173 --> 00:04:45.733 do an episode that they go hey remember 00:04:45.754 --> 00:04:47.634 that episode from three years ago well 00:04:47.654 --> 00:04:48.915 they're still in business or they've 00:04:48.975 --> 00:04:50.677 tripled their whatever you're like oh yeah 00:04:50.697 --> 00:04:52.238 this stuff works over time 00:04:52.838 --> 00:04:53.278 Which is good. 00:04:54.579 --> 00:04:56.300 What's something that you thought should 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:56.920 have been on the menu? 00:04:56.939 --> 00:04:56.980 Oh, 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.701 that's not what I thought you were going 00:05:00.721 --> 00:05:01.261 to ask me. 00:05:01.281 --> 00:05:02.062 I thought you were going to ask me 00:05:02.081 --> 00:05:02.901 the question you asked him. 00:05:02.982 --> 00:05:04.021 No, you're on a practice. 00:05:04.081 --> 00:05:07.642 But how would you have answered that one? 00:05:08.083 --> 00:05:09.923 I am really looking forward to tomorrow 00:05:09.963 --> 00:05:12.524 because I have the good fortune of being 00:05:12.543 --> 00:05:12.944 on a panel. 00:05:12.963 --> 00:05:15.785 And I get caught in a vacuum of 00:05:15.904 --> 00:05:17.526 listening of how to solve the problems 00:05:17.586 --> 00:05:18.466 from academics. 00:05:18.665 --> 00:05:19.725 And I really want to hear what a 00:05:19.745 --> 00:05:21.387 business person has to say about how we 00:05:21.406 --> 00:05:22.107 can solve this problem. 00:05:22.406 --> 00:05:23.447 I watch that a lot. 00:05:23.627 --> 00:05:25.449 I get caught in that a lot, right? 00:05:25.490 --> 00:05:27.190 Because I do live streams with business 00:05:27.230 --> 00:05:28.831 owners and we're like, you know, 00:05:28.971 --> 00:05:30.072 academic this, this, this. 00:05:30.473 --> 00:05:31.494 And then I know somebody who's in 00:05:31.574 --> 00:05:32.735 academics and you're like, okay, 00:05:32.754 --> 00:05:33.375 I see what you're saying. 00:05:33.415 --> 00:05:35.937 But actually, that's not how, 00:05:35.978 --> 00:05:36.959 not even just how it works. 00:05:36.978 --> 00:05:37.218 It's like, 00:05:37.678 --> 00:05:39.240 we've tried that or you can't do that 00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:40.601 because of A, B, X, Y, Z. 00:05:41.141 --> 00:05:42.023 So it's good to know that. 00:05:42.622 --> 00:05:43.663 Why don't you just do this? 00:05:43.704 --> 00:05:44.663 And you're like, oh, hey, 00:05:44.704 --> 00:05:45.824 thank you for pointing out that thing 00:05:45.845 --> 00:05:48.726 that's so obvious in my line of work 00:05:48.766 --> 00:05:50.988 that I can't do because of these seventeen 00:05:51.028 --> 00:05:51.288 reasons. 00:05:51.309 --> 00:05:53.430 You're like, oh, I didn't know that. 00:05:53.550 --> 00:05:54.591 Sorry. 00:05:54.651 --> 00:05:56.232 So to answer your question, 00:05:56.291 --> 00:05:57.512 not be a bad guest, 00:05:57.733 --> 00:05:59.113 the question that you did ask me, 00:05:59.535 --> 00:06:00.555 what did I want to see? 00:06:00.875 --> 00:06:02.096 Or what did you look at and say, 00:06:02.255 --> 00:06:02.336 oh, 00:06:02.416 --> 00:06:03.937 I thought that would have been an edgy 00:06:03.958 --> 00:06:04.177 top, 00:06:04.257 --> 00:06:06.879 like something Graham Session worthy that 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:07.199 wasn't? 00:06:07.785 --> 00:06:08.685 knowing that they can't put everything. 00:06:08.706 --> 00:06:08.846 Right, 00:06:08.865 --> 00:06:10.247 they can't put everything because it's a 00:06:10.307 --> 00:06:11.427 pretty small conference. 00:06:11.487 --> 00:06:13.148 But I don't know. 00:06:13.427 --> 00:06:14.889 I would have liked to see something. 00:06:14.949 --> 00:06:16.550 And we touched on this a little bit, 00:06:16.589 --> 00:06:16.951 but like... 00:06:18.468 --> 00:06:20.069 How to maintain your optimism. 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:21.129 Okay. 00:06:21.629 --> 00:06:23.911 Or how to continue to think big in 00:06:23.951 --> 00:06:25.932 a world that seems to be more restrictive. 00:06:25.951 --> 00:06:26.232 Squeezing. 00:06:26.471 --> 00:06:26.752 Yeah. 00:06:26.771 --> 00:06:29.233 Going into the diamonds caused under 00:06:29.273 --> 00:06:29.673 pressure. 00:06:29.952 --> 00:06:30.572 Yeah. 00:06:30.713 --> 00:06:31.754 So how do we keep diamonding? 00:06:32.213 --> 00:06:33.375 Yeah. 00:06:33.495 --> 00:06:35.615 I would say Rihanna, but there's no way. 00:06:35.716 --> 00:06:36.196 We can do that. 00:06:36.216 --> 00:06:36.896 We'll do that later. 00:06:37.375 --> 00:06:38.437 And I was just talking with Patrick 00:06:38.456 --> 00:06:38.697 Graham. 00:06:38.716 --> 00:06:40.038 You guys are following Patrick Graham, 00:06:40.077 --> 00:06:40.757 the guy... 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:42.302 this thing's named after. 00:06:43.882 --> 00:06:45.163 And he and I both concluded, 00:06:45.204 --> 00:06:46.444 I was like, these are great discussions. 00:06:46.625 --> 00:06:48.105 I'm like, Patrick, but where's the real, 00:06:48.567 --> 00:06:49.987 where's the real conversation? 00:06:50.028 --> 00:06:50.588 He's like the bar. 00:06:50.728 --> 00:06:51.249 And I'm like, right. 00:06:51.309 --> 00:06:52.088 We know that the answer, 00:06:52.168 --> 00:06:53.730 which is why this podcast, 00:06:54.031 --> 00:06:55.672 how this podcast originated. 00:06:56.372 --> 00:06:59.095 If you were to be on the planning 00:06:59.115 --> 00:07:00.156 committee for next year, 00:07:00.255 --> 00:07:01.716 what would you be like this? 00:07:02.338 --> 00:07:03.798 Either I'm going to give this talk or 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:04.459 I need, 00:07:04.718 --> 00:07:06.261 this needs to be here next year. 00:07:07.762 --> 00:07:09.221 What would you do if you had sixteen 00:07:09.262 --> 00:07:09.603 years? 00:07:10.163 --> 00:07:11.103 What do they say? 00:07:11.502 --> 00:07:13.963 Ninety percent of the biggest person, 00:07:14.004 --> 00:07:14.624 three years. 00:07:14.684 --> 00:07:15.704 And if you make it past three years, 00:07:15.745 --> 00:07:16.305 it's like, dude. 00:07:16.524 --> 00:07:17.384 Yeah, exactly. 00:07:17.404 --> 00:07:20.286 So what I would probably say is one 00:07:20.305 --> 00:07:21.565 of the topics and Sky just sort of 00:07:21.625 --> 00:07:22.166 touched on it. 00:07:22.187 --> 00:07:22.567 You know, 00:07:23.127 --> 00:07:24.286 how do you maintain the optimism? 00:07:24.666 --> 00:07:26.987 How do you how can we sort of 00:07:27.007 --> 00:07:28.187 combat all the challenges that we're 00:07:28.208 --> 00:07:29.488 facing as a profession right now? 00:07:30.817 --> 00:07:32.939 without changing the quality of what we 00:07:33.019 --> 00:07:33.880 do, right? 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:35.341 So I would sort of focus on that 00:07:35.382 --> 00:07:35.541 piece. 00:07:35.562 --> 00:07:36.043 I'd say, all right, well, 00:07:36.242 --> 00:07:36.963 what's successful? 00:07:37.004 --> 00:07:37.423 What works? 00:07:37.483 --> 00:07:38.384 How does it work? 00:07:38.685 --> 00:07:40.447 And how do you make sure that we 00:07:40.487 --> 00:07:41.327 value our people, 00:07:41.487 --> 00:07:42.730 that we value the care we give, 00:07:42.790 --> 00:07:43.850 and put that above all else? 00:07:44.250 --> 00:07:46.973 We stop competing with each other, right? 00:07:47.014 --> 00:07:49.055 We stop competing with other PT practices, 00:07:49.536 --> 00:07:50.577 and we focus on competing 00:07:51.278 --> 00:07:53.420 to get paid what we deserve, right? 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:55.321 And what's the key to that piece, 00:07:55.401 --> 00:07:57.423 I think? 00:07:57.483 --> 00:07:59.244 You are in academics. 00:07:59.524 --> 00:08:01.865 You take people to work for you who 00:08:01.906 --> 00:08:03.487 have just graduated from academics. 00:08:04.168 --> 00:08:06.310 What's something that you think is 00:08:06.350 --> 00:08:06.829 important? 00:08:07.091 --> 00:08:07.411 Right now, 00:08:07.451 --> 00:08:09.112 the discussion going on right now is about 00:08:09.172 --> 00:08:09.872 generations. 00:08:10.312 --> 00:08:11.754 And we're like, what's important to you? 00:08:11.793 --> 00:08:13.254 And how do I figure that out instead 00:08:13.295 --> 00:08:15.156 of these kids today? 00:08:15.197 --> 00:08:15.937 These kids today... 00:08:16.817 --> 00:08:18.059 It's usually followed by a negative. 00:08:18.158 --> 00:08:19.338 Some of these kids today are so 00:08:19.579 --> 00:08:20.038 innovative. 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:21.199 It's usually negative. 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.100 But how do you or how have you 00:08:24.141 --> 00:08:25.742 over sixteen years been able to say like, 00:08:25.802 --> 00:08:26.742 all right, 00:08:26.822 --> 00:08:29.283 here here is a generational divide and I 00:08:29.322 --> 00:08:32.163 need to figure out how to incentivize or 00:08:32.224 --> 00:08:33.884 work with this person when they value 00:08:34.345 --> 00:08:36.005 something drastically than I did? 00:08:36.166 --> 00:08:36.385 Yeah. 00:08:36.426 --> 00:08:38.346 So I think I think that answer is 00:08:38.986 --> 00:08:40.427 it's probably pretty simple, 00:08:40.467 --> 00:08:41.128 but maybe not easy. 00:08:41.408 --> 00:08:43.688 uh the great things are yeah right and 00:08:43.769 --> 00:08:46.331 so um it's just doing what we as 00:08:46.410 --> 00:08:48.932 physical therapists do the best right from 00:08:49.072 --> 00:08:50.293 we talked earlier today about the 00:08:50.352 --> 00:08:52.355 diagnostic tools that are now potentially 00:08:52.375 --> 00:08:53.956 available in a bunch of different states 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:56.000 but I still think the thing we do 00:08:56.020 --> 00:08:56.620 the best is listen. 00:08:57.201 --> 00:09:00.123 And if we listen to the new graduates, 00:09:00.143 --> 00:09:01.263 to the prospective hires, 00:09:01.863 --> 00:09:02.923 and figure out what motivates them, 00:09:02.984 --> 00:09:04.625 figure out what they want to do. 00:09:04.985 --> 00:09:06.446 Do they wanna own a practice someday? 00:09:06.505 --> 00:09:08.086 Do they wanna manage a practice someday? 00:09:08.527 --> 00:09:09.167 What do they wanna see? 00:09:09.187 --> 00:09:10.327 They wanna see a bunch of athletes that 00:09:10.347 --> 00:09:11.548 like geriatric populations? 00:09:12.168 --> 00:09:13.548 Talk to people, listen to them, 00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:14.669 figure out what they want, 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:16.821 then figure out a way we can provide 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:18.621 that build that right build that so that 00:09:18.942 --> 00:09:19.962 because listen if you came to work for 00:09:19.982 --> 00:09:21.724 me jimmy and and you said mike i 00:09:21.764 --> 00:09:23.544 really only want to see soccer players and 00:09:23.565 --> 00:09:25.385 basketball players i said okay you know 00:09:25.405 --> 00:09:26.846 what i will do everything i can to 00:09:26.907 --> 00:09:28.868 get you that population you got to work 00:09:28.888 --> 00:09:30.288 with me a little bit as often as 00:09:30.328 --> 00:09:31.889 possible i need to fill up your schedule 00:09:31.950 --> 00:09:33.490 but as much as we can i will 00:09:33.530 --> 00:09:35.052 get you relationships with the people who 00:09:35.072 --> 00:09:36.994 are going to send you that population and 00:09:37.014 --> 00:09:38.654 i'll support you because this is what you 00:09:38.695 --> 00:09:40.235 love right honestly if you do what you 00:09:40.275 --> 00:09:40.475 love 00:09:41.126 --> 00:09:41.506 It's great. 00:09:41.687 --> 00:09:41.908 Right. 00:09:42.187 --> 00:09:42.927 What's the old saying? 00:09:43.388 --> 00:09:44.188 You never work a day in your life. 00:09:44.269 --> 00:09:44.509 Right. 00:09:44.668 --> 00:09:45.309 Right. 00:09:45.389 --> 00:09:45.509 Yeah. 00:09:45.529 --> 00:09:46.129 I believe that's very true. 00:09:46.269 --> 00:09:49.072 I heard a great interview question that 00:09:49.111 --> 00:09:50.812 you can find something like this out, 00:09:50.913 --> 00:09:52.254 tease it out, which is, uh, 00:09:52.413 --> 00:09:54.315 the guy taught me to ask, uh, 00:09:54.335 --> 00:09:55.495 in the initial interview, 00:09:55.515 --> 00:09:57.376 when you're hiring a clinician, um, 00:09:57.437 --> 00:09:58.677 if you were to quit in two years, 00:09:58.758 --> 00:09:59.999 why, why, why would that be? 00:10:00.359 --> 00:10:00.778 And if they're, 00:10:00.860 --> 00:10:02.080 if they say something like, well, 00:10:02.379 --> 00:10:03.941 if you didn't pay me enough or if 00:10:03.961 --> 00:10:04.241 it was like, 00:10:04.261 --> 00:10:05.923 there's no growth or I wasn't seeing that 00:10:06.123 --> 00:10:07.543 there, instead of saying like, 00:10:08.283 --> 00:10:08.985 What do you need? 00:10:09.405 --> 00:10:11.307 It's saying, why would you leave? 00:10:11.327 --> 00:10:12.328 It turns it into a story. 00:10:12.349 --> 00:10:15.192 That's why people don't leave his clinic. 00:10:15.211 --> 00:10:16.494 I mean, really, 00:10:16.514 --> 00:10:18.937 he listens to them and he helps them 00:10:19.618 --> 00:10:21.659 see what's valuable to them and then he 00:10:21.700 --> 00:10:22.461 tries to make it happen. 00:10:22.581 --> 00:10:23.982 I feel like you pointed out that the 00:10:24.003 --> 00:10:25.323 job of a business owner is to create 00:10:25.443 --> 00:10:26.184 a good environment. 00:10:26.905 --> 00:10:28.606 and listen but the job of clinician is 00:10:28.647 --> 00:10:30.948 to create a great environment and listen 00:10:31.048 --> 00:10:33.551 differently right but doing both of those 00:10:33.571 --> 00:10:35.371 things for different audiences can lead to 00:10:35.432 --> 00:10:37.714 success absolutely you see and interact 00:10:37.813 --> 00:10:41.035 with students long before they graduate 00:10:41.056 --> 00:10:44.678 and join the workforce um what can 00:10:44.778 --> 00:10:46.799 academics teach business about these 00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:48.741 things or how to predict what's coming 00:10:48.782 --> 00:10:49.861 like i feel like you should just be 00:10:49.881 --> 00:10:52.344 like writing messages in a bottle to mike 00:10:52.364 --> 00:10:54.004 and be like okay in six years these 00:10:54.044 --> 00:10:55.686 students are gonna be like this and you 00:10:55.706 --> 00:10:56.226 should do this 00:10:57.561 --> 00:10:59.422 I really think we need to be better 00:10:59.481 --> 00:11:00.902 in academics about having it be 00:11:00.961 --> 00:11:03.062 bi-directional because we get a lot of 00:11:03.582 --> 00:11:04.442 these kids today, 00:11:04.503 --> 00:11:06.043 we get it from the clinics and they're 00:11:06.063 --> 00:11:06.244 like, 00:11:06.344 --> 00:11:08.024 you guys aren't doing a good enough job 00:11:08.764 --> 00:11:11.985 in academics to prepare them for what real 00:11:12.044 --> 00:11:15.326 life clinic is like now. 00:11:15.525 --> 00:11:17.927 So I think that we should be working 00:11:17.986 --> 00:11:20.368 together more to sort of develop a 00:11:20.488 --> 00:11:23.729 curriculum and a more, you know, 00:11:23.928 --> 00:11:26.769 in context learning experience so they can 00:11:27.230 --> 00:11:29.691 understand what the current challenges but 00:11:29.731 --> 00:11:30.831 then how do they turn those into 00:11:30.892 --> 00:11:33.192 opportunities i'm always thinking about 00:11:33.254 --> 00:11:35.335 too like we need to give them more 00:11:35.434 --> 00:11:37.035 for what they're paying for and what 00:11:37.056 --> 00:11:39.256 they're doing like students you mean yeah 00:11:39.397 --> 00:11:42.359 i mean like i just think about can 00:11:42.418 --> 00:11:45.841 we give them a skill set where it's 00:11:45.880 --> 00:11:47.642 like how do we get them to be 00:11:47.682 --> 00:11:49.123 more entrepreneurial and how do we do 00:11:49.182 --> 00:11:51.043 design thinking because 00:11:51.744 --> 00:11:53.105 we can't just prepare them for the way 00:11:53.125 --> 00:11:55.346 that how I practice physical therapy, 00:11:55.466 --> 00:11:56.187 you know, it's like, 00:11:56.287 --> 00:11:57.746 we have to prepare them to be like, 00:11:57.807 --> 00:11:58.607 what's the next thing. 00:11:58.648 --> 00:11:59.749 And if we want the profession to move 00:11:59.788 --> 00:12:00.109 forward, 00:12:00.589 --> 00:12:03.530 we should also spend some time developing 00:12:04.091 --> 00:12:05.371 almost like what you'd see in a business 00:12:05.392 --> 00:12:07.692 curriculum, not how to open a business, 00:12:07.732 --> 00:12:09.854 but how do you have that mindset to 00:12:09.894 --> 00:12:12.816 think bigger than what we are now? 00:12:12.916 --> 00:12:14.177 Cause I'm always also thinking about the 00:12:14.216 --> 00:12:15.277 profession and it's like, 00:12:15.496 --> 00:12:17.418 we keep having the same discussion over 00:12:17.438 --> 00:12:18.019 and over again. 00:12:18.058 --> 00:12:19.419 Like, why don't people know what we do? 00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:19.779 Like, 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:21.301 Why don't people see the value? 00:12:21.341 --> 00:12:23.381 We know that we give great care and 00:12:23.422 --> 00:12:26.283 it's more economical and we do prevention, 00:12:26.322 --> 00:12:27.643 but it's like, no, still, 00:12:27.663 --> 00:12:30.044 we're not moving the needle as far as 00:12:30.085 --> 00:12:30.465 we can. 00:12:31.044 --> 00:12:32.186 So I'm sort of like, well, 00:12:32.225 --> 00:12:34.986 do we create armies of people who, 00:12:35.586 --> 00:12:35.986 you know what I mean? 00:12:36.006 --> 00:12:36.147 Like, 00:12:37.028 --> 00:12:38.107 I am not the first person to say 00:12:38.128 --> 00:12:39.509 this, but why do we teach goniometry? 00:12:40.028 --> 00:12:41.288 goniometry over sixteen weeks. 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:42.990 I don't know. 00:12:43.049 --> 00:12:45.951 It's the same device. 00:12:45.990 --> 00:12:47.490 Just pick a different joint. 00:12:47.530 --> 00:12:48.150 Maybe we just do, 00:12:48.191 --> 00:12:49.311 here's one ball and socket, 00:12:49.350 --> 00:12:50.351 here's one hinge joint. 00:12:51.751 --> 00:12:53.152 Do it on the upper and lower extremity. 00:12:53.192 --> 00:12:55.572 We'll teach you the spine. 00:12:58.333 --> 00:12:58.653 I get it. 00:12:58.734 --> 00:13:00.313 There's academic bloat. 00:13:00.433 --> 00:13:01.475 What do you take out? 00:13:01.534 --> 00:13:02.134 What do you put in? 00:13:02.154 --> 00:13:03.455 But I think we have to rethink it. 00:13:03.554 --> 00:13:05.355 Love it. 00:13:05.875 --> 00:13:06.076 Yeah. 00:13:07.275 --> 00:13:07.897 Same question, 00:13:07.917 --> 00:13:09.839 but different point in life. 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:11.861 How do you know when someone walks in 00:13:12.201 --> 00:13:13.583 who's just graduated, 00:13:13.624 --> 00:13:14.804 who's going to be a great clinician? 00:13:15.245 --> 00:13:17.008 And how can you tell when someone walks 00:13:17.028 --> 00:13:19.630 in, they're going to be a great student? 00:13:19.650 --> 00:13:21.211 So what are you looking for? 00:13:21.231 --> 00:13:22.293 What are the things that you're like, 00:13:22.313 --> 00:13:22.394 yeah. 00:13:23.772 --> 00:13:27.313 great clinicians, probably, mostly for me, 00:13:27.354 --> 00:13:28.475 when I sit down with somebody for an 00:13:28.495 --> 00:13:28.794 interview, 00:13:28.815 --> 00:13:31.297 the kind of things I want to hear 00:13:31.317 --> 00:13:34.639 from them are not about all the different 00:13:34.658 --> 00:13:36.860 things they've seen in other clinics or as 00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:37.900 a student or anything like that. 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:38.480 It's 00:13:39.481 --> 00:13:40.221 It's probably hard to quantify. 00:13:40.261 --> 00:13:41.623 It's, it's a motivation. 00:13:41.743 --> 00:13:44.183 It's a, it's a desire to see. 00:13:45.104 --> 00:13:45.823 And it's a passion. 00:13:46.203 --> 00:13:47.684 If they've got a passion about something, 00:13:47.725 --> 00:13:47.965 if they, 00:13:48.345 --> 00:13:50.125 if they can explain to me something they 00:13:50.186 --> 00:13:50.346 love, 00:13:50.365 --> 00:13:51.245 and it's one of the questions I always 00:13:51.326 --> 00:13:52.307 ask is, tell me what you love. 00:13:52.326 --> 00:13:53.346 What do you love about physical therapy? 00:13:53.366 --> 00:13:55.087 Like, why do you love physical therapy? 00:13:55.967 --> 00:13:56.427 And quite honestly, 00:13:56.447 --> 00:13:58.229 I've had some interviews where they, well, 00:13:58.249 --> 00:13:59.428 I'm not sure I do. 00:13:59.808 --> 00:14:00.590 You're like, got it. 00:14:00.669 --> 00:14:02.129 And you're just drawing a right line. 00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:04.331 Well, so maybe, but, 00:14:04.451 --> 00:14:05.711 but the first question I asked after that 00:14:05.751 --> 00:14:06.491 is, why? 00:14:07.371 --> 00:14:07.991 I love what I do. 00:14:08.032 --> 00:14:09.312 I love what I do every day since 00:14:09.332 --> 00:14:09.812 I've been doing it. 00:14:09.832 --> 00:14:10.873 I've been doing it for twenty five years. 00:14:10.913 --> 00:14:12.634 So like I don't know how you couldn't 00:14:12.673 --> 00:14:13.134 love this. 00:14:13.474 --> 00:14:14.475 Tell me about where you work now. 00:14:14.534 --> 00:14:16.195 Tell me about your last experience. 00:14:16.716 --> 00:14:17.635 What was not to love? 00:14:17.796 --> 00:14:19.856 What would you not like about that? 00:14:20.017 --> 00:14:20.256 Right. 00:14:20.537 --> 00:14:22.018 Because then I'll get a sense of because 00:14:22.158 --> 00:14:24.759 if they describe my office and they don't 00:14:24.798 --> 00:14:25.899 love that and they don't love that, 00:14:26.058 --> 00:14:26.798 they're not going to love me. 00:14:26.918 --> 00:14:27.078 Right. 00:14:27.099 --> 00:14:28.139 And they're not going to come work for 00:14:28.179 --> 00:14:28.259 me. 00:14:28.779 --> 00:14:30.380 But if they describe an office where 00:14:30.721 --> 00:14:32.601 they're asked to see thirty patients a day 00:14:32.662 --> 00:14:34.062 and they're not given the time and not 00:14:34.082 --> 00:14:35.322 given the support and they're not given 00:14:35.383 --> 00:14:37.244 Con Ed and they're not given any sort 00:14:37.283 --> 00:14:38.664 of professional development or 00:14:38.705 --> 00:14:40.666 encouragement to pursue their passion. 00:14:40.686 --> 00:14:42.746 I was like, well, I can fix that. 00:14:42.846 --> 00:14:43.528 I can take care of that. 00:14:43.548 --> 00:14:44.768 So you're at you're teasing out as an 00:14:44.827 --> 00:14:46.009 environmental or internal. 00:14:46.048 --> 00:14:46.149 Yep. 00:14:46.269 --> 00:14:47.889 And if it's internal, I can't fix that. 00:14:47.909 --> 00:14:48.250 I can't fix that. 00:14:48.269 --> 00:14:48.710 There's nothing. 00:14:48.769 --> 00:14:50.270 But if you were in a crappy situation, 00:14:50.350 --> 00:14:51.571 let's get you in a better situation. 00:14:51.630 --> 00:14:52.291 Yeah, exactly. 00:14:52.311 --> 00:14:52.711 Yeah. 00:14:52.770 --> 00:14:53.251 Okay. 00:14:53.312 --> 00:14:54.292 Great answer. 00:14:54.312 --> 00:14:55.392 So how do you want to answer this? 00:14:55.451 --> 00:14:56.832 Do you want to answer what makes, 00:14:57.552 --> 00:14:58.714 what do you see that you know that 00:14:58.754 --> 00:14:59.594 this person is going to be a good 00:14:59.634 --> 00:14:59.994 student? 00:15:00.274 --> 00:15:01.855 Or what do you see while they're 00:15:02.754 --> 00:15:03.916 a student that you're like, Oh, 00:15:03.936 --> 00:15:04.736 this person's going to have, 00:15:04.797 --> 00:15:06.038 this person's going to do great things. 00:15:06.217 --> 00:15:07.379 I think the answer is the same. 00:15:07.619 --> 00:15:09.640 Okay, good. 00:15:09.841 --> 00:15:11.621 And I think it is people who are 00:15:11.662 --> 00:15:12.222 successful, 00:15:12.283 --> 00:15:17.567 who have enough self-awareness to be open 00:15:17.647 --> 00:15:18.707 to change. 00:15:19.428 --> 00:15:23.091 I think PT school is very challenging and 00:15:23.111 --> 00:15:24.533 the people who are sort of like 00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:26.480 this is not going to be forever. 00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:28.241 I may need help in this. 00:15:28.361 --> 00:15:30.043 I'm excelling at this and I'm going to 00:15:30.102 --> 00:15:32.725 go like show my skills to somebody else. 00:15:32.745 --> 00:15:33.865 And I'm going to feel proud of myself 00:15:33.884 --> 00:15:35.626 for that two weeks that I actually had 00:15:35.667 --> 00:15:38.908 my stuff together out of a hundred and 00:15:38.928 --> 00:15:39.629 twelve weeks. 00:15:40.450 --> 00:15:41.009 I had two. 00:15:41.750 --> 00:15:43.631 But I think it's the person who is 00:15:43.772 --> 00:15:45.972 adaptable and they are willing to like 00:15:46.072 --> 00:15:47.634 know who they are, 00:15:47.693 --> 00:15:48.475 what their shortcomings are, 00:15:48.495 --> 00:15:49.414 what their strengths are, 00:15:49.514 --> 00:15:50.755 and be able to kind of like 00:15:52.369 --> 00:15:54.091 be okay with all of that because that 00:15:54.130 --> 00:15:56.874 kind of a person is going to be 00:15:56.994 --> 00:15:58.595 like our patients come in like that too. 00:15:58.615 --> 00:15:58.836 Right. 00:15:59.275 --> 00:16:00.697 So that kind of a person is like 00:16:00.716 --> 00:16:01.378 someone who's like, 00:16:01.398 --> 00:16:02.578 the job's going to be different every day. 00:16:02.599 --> 00:16:03.600 I'm going to be working with different 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:04.421 people every day. 00:16:04.841 --> 00:16:05.982 I'm willing to learn about them. 00:16:07.397 --> 00:16:09.839 I'm open to growing as an individual 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:14.322 myself and not being kind of like stuck 00:16:14.402 --> 00:16:16.082 in the like, 00:16:16.263 --> 00:16:18.625 every day is going to be horrible and 00:16:18.924 --> 00:16:20.144 I'm not doing great. 00:16:20.206 --> 00:16:20.645 And it's like, 00:16:20.686 --> 00:16:22.647 can we just sort of rise above and 00:16:22.687 --> 00:16:26.629 like the students that really see this as 00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:30.831 a opportunity to live in the moment and 00:16:30.932 --> 00:16:31.852 do all the things in the moment, 00:16:31.893 --> 00:16:33.394 but this is just for now. 00:16:33.714 --> 00:16:35.554 And they have the capacity to be something 00:16:35.595 --> 00:16:36.296 different at the end. 00:16:36.515 --> 00:16:37.557 Do you remember when I had a clinical 00:16:37.596 --> 00:16:38.697 in an underground mall? 00:16:39.356 --> 00:16:39.898 I remember that. 00:16:39.998 --> 00:16:40.957 What was the name of that mall? 00:16:41.197 --> 00:16:43.239 It was like an underground bomb shelter. 00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:45.139 It doesn't even exist anymore. 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:45.801 It was in Crystal City. 00:16:45.821 --> 00:16:46.520 It was across from Panagon. 00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:47.461 It was in Crystal City. 00:16:48.101 --> 00:16:48.621 It's right here. 00:16:49.243 --> 00:16:50.582 So I was in the food court of 00:16:50.602 --> 00:16:51.464 an underground mall. 00:16:52.163 --> 00:16:53.205 It was a national chain. 00:16:53.264 --> 00:16:54.164 I'm not going to throw them under the 00:16:54.205 --> 00:16:54.524 bus. 00:16:55.745 --> 00:16:57.826 And I literally remember messaging you and 00:16:57.866 --> 00:17:01.288 being like, is this it? 00:17:01.349 --> 00:17:02.509 And you were like, no. 00:17:02.629 --> 00:17:03.309 And I was like, well, 00:17:03.370 --> 00:17:05.090 this feels like this... 00:17:06.128 --> 00:17:07.830 I like to think I'm pretty resilient, 00:17:07.851 --> 00:17:09.132 like at least like a B plus. 00:17:09.172 --> 00:17:11.114 But I was like, what are we doing? 00:17:11.134 --> 00:17:13.896 And my CI was rubbing butts through jeans. 00:17:14.156 --> 00:17:15.378 He was like, dude, 00:17:15.459 --> 00:17:16.299 I remember just being like, 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:18.241 I don't know what I'm doing here. 00:17:18.721 --> 00:17:18.882 Yeah. 00:17:19.041 --> 00:17:20.963 Underground mall where I was looking at a 00:17:21.404 --> 00:17:23.046 subway restaurant because I was in the 00:17:23.086 --> 00:17:23.646 food court. 00:17:23.666 --> 00:17:23.747 Yeah. 00:17:24.887 --> 00:17:26.369 And that was fun. 00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:28.451 But I think I said something to the 00:17:28.471 --> 00:17:29.752 effect because I say it all the time. 00:17:30.374 --> 00:17:30.513 Well, 00:17:30.574 --> 00:17:31.996 I think I said something like you can 00:17:32.056 --> 00:17:33.497 learn as much about what you don't want. 00:17:33.636 --> 00:17:33.978 Right. 00:17:34.878 --> 00:17:36.200 And that's a valuable experience. 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:36.480 It is. 00:17:36.621 --> 00:17:37.461 Yeah, that's right. 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:38.722 Look at it more like sculpture. 00:17:38.742 --> 00:17:39.983 Like, what are we chipping away? 00:17:40.023 --> 00:17:41.546 We're not going to have that. 00:17:41.826 --> 00:17:42.547 Got it. 00:17:42.807 --> 00:17:43.646 You need windows. 00:17:43.747 --> 00:17:44.228 All right. 00:17:44.248 --> 00:17:44.867 Check. 00:17:44.887 --> 00:17:46.248 Because literally it was like winter. 00:17:46.268 --> 00:17:46.989 It was like now. 00:17:47.068 --> 00:17:49.068 So I would go to work at like 00:17:49.269 --> 00:17:50.670 in dark, zero dark thirty. 00:17:50.710 --> 00:17:52.070 I would leave at zero dark thirty. 00:17:52.090 --> 00:17:52.830 Never saw the sun. 00:17:52.851 --> 00:17:53.550 Never saw the sun. 00:17:53.590 --> 00:17:55.211 And I was just like, this is great. 00:17:55.271 --> 00:17:56.531 This is this. 00:17:56.551 --> 00:17:58.292 I used to play rock music loud and 00:17:58.313 --> 00:17:59.673 give away beer and concert tickets. 00:17:59.712 --> 00:18:01.673 But now we're rubbing butts through jeans. 00:18:01.713 --> 00:18:02.595 And this is my job. 00:18:02.615 --> 00:18:03.394 I'm like, cool. 00:18:03.474 --> 00:18:04.075 In the dungeon. 00:18:04.615 --> 00:18:05.115 And I'm like, well, 00:18:05.135 --> 00:18:06.496 at least there's this on the bright side. 00:18:06.516 --> 00:18:07.695 There's a subway right there. 00:18:08.217 --> 00:18:10.196 Got as many subway punch things. 00:18:10.217 --> 00:18:11.238 And I got a free footlong. 00:18:11.978 --> 00:18:16.201 um uh is there anything i didn't ask 00:18:16.221 --> 00:18:17.862 you didn't ask me what session i want 00:18:17.882 --> 00:18:20.104 to see oh yeah sorry i forgot what 00:18:20.124 --> 00:18:22.365 would you put on the docket how to 00:18:22.384 --> 00:18:23.346 have a nerd lunch 00:18:23.935 --> 00:18:25.096 What's a nerd lunch? 00:18:25.156 --> 00:18:26.479 Oh, I have them all the time. 00:18:26.618 --> 00:18:27.720 What is a nerd lunch? 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.961 So you know what a nerd lunch is. 00:18:29.981 --> 00:18:30.303 Do I? 00:18:30.403 --> 00:18:31.544 Yeah, because you've been to one. 00:18:31.564 --> 00:18:32.484 I have. 00:18:32.525 --> 00:18:33.665 You're going to be invited to the next 00:18:33.767 --> 00:18:33.866 one. 00:18:33.886 --> 00:18:34.847 I eat lunch with myself. 00:18:34.968 --> 00:18:35.508 Yeah, no. 00:18:35.567 --> 00:18:38.330 So where you have a lunch and or 00:18:38.371 --> 00:18:39.152 it doesn't have to be lunch. 00:18:39.311 --> 00:18:40.673 You have a moment and it's on a 00:18:40.713 --> 00:18:43.596 repetitive schedule and you have a group 00:18:43.656 --> 00:18:45.298 of people that do things that are 00:18:45.338 --> 00:18:46.259 completely opposite to you. 00:18:46.567 --> 00:18:47.767 So it's like your accountability group. 00:18:47.846 --> 00:18:49.067 It's like, how do you form that? 00:18:49.407 --> 00:18:50.929 Like if our group chat was just like, 00:18:51.048 --> 00:18:52.288 we're going to meet Fridays at one, 00:18:52.368 --> 00:18:52.949 twelve to one. 00:18:53.068 --> 00:18:53.269 Right. 00:18:53.469 --> 00:18:54.930 We all do in our group chat is 00:18:54.970 --> 00:18:56.369 like a bunch of PTs. 00:18:56.410 --> 00:18:57.851 But I don't think do any of us 00:18:57.871 --> 00:18:59.692 do the same thing now? 00:19:00.011 --> 00:19:02.393 Yeah. 00:19:02.492 --> 00:19:03.313 And why is that good? 00:19:04.388 --> 00:19:06.411 because I've said this before, it's like, 00:19:06.810 --> 00:19:08.672 we gotta get out of the silo. 00:19:09.073 --> 00:19:10.993 So I think having people that are 00:19:11.013 --> 00:19:12.775 comfortable enough to challenge you, 00:19:12.815 --> 00:19:14.316 and I think it's even better when they're 00:19:14.375 --> 00:19:15.277 outside of the profession, 00:19:15.857 --> 00:19:17.038 because they just look at things so 00:19:17.078 --> 00:19:17.499 differently. 00:19:18.345 --> 00:19:19.144 Yeah. 00:19:19.484 --> 00:19:21.205 So I'm just going to come back. 00:19:21.405 --> 00:19:22.826 I'm doing a cohort. 00:19:23.086 --> 00:19:23.746 I'm a teacher now. 00:19:23.766 --> 00:19:24.826 I'm teaching people how to podcast. 00:19:25.047 --> 00:19:26.727 So I've been asked before. 00:19:26.747 --> 00:19:27.467 I was like, I'll do it, 00:19:27.487 --> 00:19:28.288 but only if a couple of you are 00:19:28.307 --> 00:19:29.008 going to do it at once because it 00:19:29.028 --> 00:19:29.647 doesn't make any sense. 00:19:30.127 --> 00:19:31.228 So I've got three or four people going 00:19:31.248 --> 00:19:32.249 through this at the same time. 00:19:32.749 --> 00:19:34.469 And week one or two, I was like, 00:19:34.909 --> 00:19:35.549 this is your homework. 00:19:35.970 --> 00:19:37.130 Who are you talking to? 00:19:37.210 --> 00:19:38.029 Make up a fake person. 00:19:38.109 --> 00:19:39.030 As dumb as it sounds, 00:19:39.151 --> 00:19:40.090 exercise actually helps. 00:19:40.891 --> 00:19:42.232 And they're going through it and they're 00:19:42.272 --> 00:19:43.073 doing their thing. 00:19:43.193 --> 00:19:44.454 And then week two is like, 00:19:44.654 --> 00:19:45.955 now I want you to like, 00:19:46.037 --> 00:19:49.299 now it's what's one episode for this? 00:19:49.820 --> 00:19:50.701 What's one problem? 00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:53.104 And the funny part is the person who 00:19:53.483 --> 00:19:55.486 their podcast is launching is like really 00:19:55.526 --> 00:19:57.147 hard to articulate what they're trying to 00:19:57.188 --> 00:19:57.367 do. 00:19:57.669 --> 00:19:59.009 The other two people are like, oh, no, 00:19:59.049 --> 00:20:00.372 no, no, this is it. 00:20:00.491 --> 00:20:02.354 And they're able to rattle it off so 00:20:02.394 --> 00:20:02.933 damn easy. 00:20:03.815 --> 00:20:05.115 And then like, how are you doing that? 00:20:05.154 --> 00:20:05.695 I'm like, watch, 00:20:05.816 --> 00:20:06.675 you're going to be able to do it 00:20:06.715 --> 00:20:07.236 for him. 00:20:07.496 --> 00:20:08.195 He's going to be able to do it. 00:20:08.215 --> 00:20:08.935 You're going to be able to do it 00:20:08.955 --> 00:20:09.676 for the other people. 00:20:10.116 --> 00:20:11.057 You have the curse of knowledge. 00:20:11.656 --> 00:20:13.998 Like you've exhausted all the probable 00:20:14.337 --> 00:20:16.398 solutions because you know this space. 00:20:16.979 --> 00:20:18.239 And then you get another person that comes 00:20:18.278 --> 00:20:18.818 in and they're like, 00:20:19.138 --> 00:20:20.359 I've been tried this thing that you've 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:20.839 never heard of. 00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:22.119 And you're like, no, what is that? 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:24.601 Three M the company three M did this. 00:20:26.201 --> 00:20:28.321 they couldn't figure out how to do some 00:20:28.402 --> 00:20:29.102 engineering thing. 00:20:29.201 --> 00:20:29.701 And they were like, 00:20:29.981 --> 00:20:32.843 some entrepreneurial Scotsman came up with 00:20:32.863 --> 00:20:33.363 this idea. 00:20:33.462 --> 00:20:35.403 Essentially he created open source problem 00:20:35.442 --> 00:20:36.022 solutions. 00:20:36.202 --> 00:20:37.104 So they were like, all right, 00:20:37.124 --> 00:20:38.804 we're gonna put this on a website and 00:20:38.824 --> 00:20:39.824 we'll put a bounty on it. 00:20:40.223 --> 00:20:40.864 So some like, 00:20:41.184 --> 00:20:42.525 the famous story that I heard on a 00:20:42.565 --> 00:20:45.404 podcast was some shepherd was like, well, 00:20:45.424 --> 00:20:46.306 have you tried this? 00:20:46.586 --> 00:20:48.066 And these engineers were like, 00:20:48.506 --> 00:20:49.326 what the hell is that? 00:20:49.346 --> 00:20:50.707 And like, oh, well, we've, this, this, 00:20:50.727 --> 00:20:51.646 this, and it solved it. 00:20:52.346 --> 00:20:53.667 you needed a shepherd to solve an 00:20:53.708 --> 00:20:55.589 engineering problem why because engineers 00:20:55.630 --> 00:20:57.491 are taught engineering things they don't 00:20:57.571 --> 00:20:59.314 know how to get the flock out of 00:20:59.334 --> 00:21:03.218 here um all right uh is there anything 00:21:03.258 --> 00:21:06.099 i didn't ask about uh graham sessions or 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.103 you know uh yeah all right we'll wrap 00:21:09.163 --> 00:21:10.805 up uh last thing we do on the 00:21:10.825 --> 00:21:13.367 uh episodes we call it the parting shot 00:21:15.442 --> 00:21:16.582 This is the parting shot. 00:21:17.123 --> 00:21:19.143 One last mic drop moment. 00:21:19.202 --> 00:21:20.002 No pressure. 00:21:20.442 --> 00:21:22.604 Just your legacy on the line. 00:21:23.743 --> 00:21:24.384 I will point out, 00:21:24.443 --> 00:21:25.785 I've been doing the parting shot for a 00:21:25.845 --> 00:21:26.365 decade. 00:21:26.464 --> 00:21:28.785 And just twenty eight minutes ago in 00:21:28.865 --> 00:21:31.185 Graham Sessions, someone on stage, 00:21:31.266 --> 00:21:32.105 I won't say who, 00:21:32.605 --> 00:21:33.906 but a pretty prominent person was like, 00:21:33.926 --> 00:21:35.207 do we have any other parting shots? 00:21:35.247 --> 00:21:37.027 And I was like, that's my turn. 00:21:37.207 --> 00:21:39.228 That's when you know you've been saying 00:21:39.248 --> 00:21:39.688 something over here. 00:21:39.748 --> 00:21:39.928 All right. 00:21:39.968 --> 00:21:40.488 Parting shot. 00:21:40.528 --> 00:21:41.928 Just last chance for whatever. 00:21:41.988 --> 00:21:42.709 Mic drop moment. 00:21:42.729 --> 00:21:43.388 Soapbox statement. 00:21:43.409 --> 00:21:43.689 Something. 00:21:43.729 --> 00:21:44.148 What do you got? 00:21:46.911 --> 00:21:48.352 I think the main take home for me 00:21:48.392 --> 00:21:50.073 from this whole Graham session has been, 00:21:51.453 --> 00:21:53.494 if you find people who love what they 00:21:53.535 --> 00:21:53.855 do, 00:21:54.415 --> 00:21:55.997 you'll be successful running a private 00:21:56.017 --> 00:21:56.416 practice. 00:21:56.798 --> 00:21:57.637 But you got to find people who love 00:21:57.657 --> 00:21:58.479 what they do and support them. 00:21:58.838 --> 00:22:00.220 You know, one of the other, 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:01.181 I feel like I've been saying a whole 00:22:01.221 --> 00:22:02.981 bunch of sayings today, but I apologize. 00:22:03.582 --> 00:22:06.224 um is hire people smarter than you yeah 00:22:06.845 --> 00:22:08.267 right and let them do what they're good 00:22:08.287 --> 00:22:10.888 at yeah that second part's not easy like 00:22:10.969 --> 00:22:13.270 that's why steve jobs that's why that's so 00:22:13.491 --> 00:22:16.273 there's a cliche right but have you been 00:22:16.294 --> 00:22:18.316 in that situation have you been the person 00:22:18.375 --> 00:22:20.898 hired and then told what and how to 00:22:20.939 --> 00:22:22.840 do oh yeah sure and that's terribly 00:22:22.861 --> 00:22:24.942 frustrating and then the boss is like why 00:22:24.982 --> 00:22:26.503 isn't this working well yeah i think i 00:22:26.523 --> 00:22:28.246 said the other day which was uh 00:22:29.387 --> 00:22:29.969 In the context, 00:22:29.989 --> 00:22:32.068 it was the CEO kept messing with 00:22:32.128 --> 00:22:32.549 marketing. 00:22:32.910 --> 00:22:34.390 And I think my response was something 00:22:34.431 --> 00:22:34.871 like, well, 00:22:34.971 --> 00:22:36.991 if you keep putting your fingers in the 00:22:37.051 --> 00:22:38.192 soup, don't be pissed. 00:22:38.231 --> 00:22:39.113 It tastes like fingers. 00:22:40.212 --> 00:22:41.594 Stop touching the marketing and then it 00:22:41.634 --> 00:22:42.594 won't taste like fingers. 00:22:42.653 --> 00:22:45.174 But it's simple, but not easy. 00:22:45.194 --> 00:22:45.776 Parting shot. 00:22:45.796 --> 00:22:46.496 Clears before beers. 00:22:47.381 --> 00:22:49.863 I think that was my first party. 00:22:49.883 --> 00:22:51.383 That was her party shot like ten years 00:22:51.403 --> 00:22:51.463 ago. 00:22:51.483 --> 00:22:52.824 Yeah, I'm saying that to my kids. 00:22:52.844 --> 00:22:54.505 I'm like, just please, clues before beers. 00:22:56.646 --> 00:22:58.367 So I heard this yesterday. 00:22:58.428 --> 00:22:59.848 So it wasn't at Graham Sessions, 00:22:59.888 --> 00:23:00.689 but I heard it yesterday. 00:23:00.709 --> 00:23:01.930 So we were sort of like in the 00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:03.810 lead up to Graham Sessions and it was 00:23:04.030 --> 00:23:07.133 find the extraordinary in the ordinary. 00:23:07.413 --> 00:23:08.213 Oh, what does that mean? 00:23:08.354 --> 00:23:09.335 What do you think that what is that? 00:23:09.375 --> 00:23:09.615 What do you? 00:23:10.019 --> 00:23:11.099 I think you can mean whatever you want 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:11.500 it to mean. 00:23:12.820 --> 00:23:15.561 I think it's like about reinvesting in 00:23:15.622 --> 00:23:17.442 wonderment because I think right now we 00:23:17.461 --> 00:23:18.803 don't have a lot of wonder in our 00:23:18.843 --> 00:23:19.282 lives. 00:23:19.423 --> 00:23:19.722 Good. 00:23:20.042 --> 00:23:21.823 So I've been trying to spend some time. 00:23:21.942 --> 00:23:25.044 I wonder what we should do. 00:23:25.183 --> 00:23:26.424 Did you find this at dinner last night? 00:23:27.505 --> 00:23:29.145 With the dinner that you were at. 00:23:29.266 --> 00:23:30.026 At dinner last night, 00:23:30.125 --> 00:23:32.247 I pointed out to people, you know, 00:23:32.468 --> 00:23:33.847 I was a typical twenty five year old 00:23:33.907 --> 00:23:34.648 rock radio DJ. 00:23:34.669 --> 00:23:36.409 We would make fun of things and people. 00:23:36.469 --> 00:23:37.190 That was our job, 00:23:37.269 --> 00:23:38.190 like to sort of be a dick. 00:23:38.830 --> 00:23:39.871 And now I'm like, 00:23:40.111 --> 00:23:41.491 like if I find out someone likes, 00:23:41.811 --> 00:23:42.092 I don't know, 00:23:42.152 --> 00:23:43.452 Pokemon or Disney or whatever. 00:23:43.553 --> 00:23:45.054 I used to be like, this is lame. 00:23:45.453 --> 00:23:46.875 Now I'm like just excited that they're 00:23:46.914 --> 00:23:49.316 excited, like finding extraordinary. 00:23:49.355 --> 00:23:49.596 I'm like, 00:23:49.996 --> 00:23:51.777 I don't care about Disney or whatever, 00:23:51.856 --> 00:23:52.737 but I'm like, that's cool. 00:23:52.757 --> 00:23:53.557 Why do you like that? 00:23:54.278 --> 00:23:55.419 i'm never gonna like that thing that's 00:23:55.459 --> 00:23:57.220 okay but it's like i'm actually excited 00:23:57.240 --> 00:23:59.142 you you're super into hula hooping tell me 00:23:59.182 --> 00:24:01.943 more about the hula hoop uh uh you 00:24:01.983 --> 00:24:03.505 know community and how i can be a 00:24:03.565 --> 00:24:05.686 part of it um so this is fun 00:24:06.126 --> 00:24:08.189 uh i appreciate you guys doing this now 00:24:08.568 --> 00:24:09.950 uh we should dip out of graham sessions 00:24:09.990 --> 00:24:11.730 early and go to dinner sounds like a 00:24:11.770 --> 00:24:11.912 plan 00:24:13.615 --> 00:24:14.674 That's it for this one, 00:24:14.954 --> 00:24:16.635 but we're just getting warmed up. 00:24:17.096 --> 00:24:19.017 Smash follow, send it to a friend, 00:24:19.237 --> 00:24:20.876 or crank up the next episode. 00:24:21.396 --> 00:24:22.438 Want to go deeper? 00:24:22.778 --> 00:24:26.798 Hit us at pgpinecast.com or find us on 00:24:26.858 --> 00:24:29.420 YouTube and socials at pgpinecast. 00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:32.101 And legally, none of this was advice. 00:24:32.161 --> 00:24:34.082 It's for entertainment purposes only. 00:24:34.561 --> 00:24:35.541 Bulls**t! 00:24:35.582 --> 00:24:36.162 See, Keith? 00:24:36.382 --> 00:24:37.442 We read the script. 00:24:37.742 --> 00:24:38.383 Happy now?