WEBVTT 00:00:00.490 --> 00:00:01.752 You're listening to the P.T. 00:00:01.792 --> 00:00:02.515 Pinecast, 00:00:02.595 --> 00:00:04.620 where smart people in healthcare come to 00:00:04.660 --> 00:00:05.541 make noise. 00:00:05.863 --> 00:00:07.325 Here's your host, Jimmy McKay. 00:00:11.630 --> 00:00:12.429 All right, ladies and gentlemen, 00:00:12.910 --> 00:00:15.332 doing a quick Monday live stream because 00:00:15.352 --> 00:00:16.693 there's some interesting things on 00:00:16.753 --> 00:00:17.152 LinkedIn. 00:00:17.172 --> 00:00:18.472 And when there are interesting things on 00:00:18.513 --> 00:00:18.993 LinkedIn, 00:00:19.153 --> 00:00:20.493 I like to point them out because there's 00:00:20.533 --> 00:00:22.876 not always interesting things on LinkedIn. 00:00:22.916 --> 00:00:24.817 Sometimes it's just a lot of, well, noise. 00:00:25.937 --> 00:00:27.297 But I thought some good points were being 00:00:27.338 --> 00:00:28.638 made by this guy right here, 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:29.678 Rob Panarella. 00:00:31.019 --> 00:00:31.960 And I wanted to share them. 00:00:32.780 --> 00:00:33.561 He had a post, 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.262 and I think he got such a good 00:00:35.301 --> 00:00:37.963 response from it that he had a follow-up 00:00:38.003 --> 00:00:38.283 post, 00:00:38.783 --> 00:00:40.484 and then a follow-up to the follow-up 00:00:40.524 --> 00:00:40.865 post. 00:00:41.549 --> 00:00:42.369 which is always great. 00:00:42.551 --> 00:00:43.951 Interesting conversations happening. 00:00:44.451 --> 00:00:45.752 And this has been over the last couple 00:00:45.771 --> 00:00:46.131 of weeks. 00:00:46.872 --> 00:00:48.173 And before anybody tightens up, 00:00:48.292 --> 00:00:50.253 I'm not here to take down somebody. 00:00:50.534 --> 00:00:52.295 I think Rob brings up some really, really, 00:00:52.354 --> 00:00:53.375 really good points. 00:00:54.837 --> 00:00:56.737 But something is breaking in the 00:00:56.777 --> 00:00:59.158 profession and how we talk to each other 00:00:59.259 --> 00:00:59.918 about this. 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:02.100 Maybe you want to call it a generational 00:01:02.140 --> 00:01:02.600 divide. 00:01:02.761 --> 00:01:03.301 I don't know. 00:01:04.081 --> 00:01:06.403 It keeps being framed as a work ethic 00:01:06.462 --> 00:01:06.882 problem. 00:01:08.162 --> 00:01:10.064 I don't think it's a work ethic problem. 00:01:10.424 --> 00:01:11.305 This feels a little bit, 00:01:11.325 --> 00:01:12.266 I know this is a podcast. 00:01:12.307 --> 00:01:13.186 We're also doing a live stream. 00:01:13.387 --> 00:01:14.427 I know it's a podcast and you can't, 00:01:14.649 --> 00:01:16.230 but it feels finger waggy. 00:01:17.450 --> 00:01:19.832 And I don't think it's a work ethic 00:01:19.873 --> 00:01:20.272 problem. 00:01:20.593 --> 00:01:22.114 And that's why I think we keep talking 00:01:22.174 --> 00:01:24.816 past each other and not to each other 00:01:24.837 --> 00:01:25.597 to find a solution. 00:01:26.257 --> 00:01:26.899 In my opinion, 00:01:26.938 --> 00:01:28.359 if we keep framing this as a work 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:29.040 ethic problem, 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:30.861 I'm going to use hyperbole here. 00:01:31.423 --> 00:01:32.843 These kids today don't understand what 00:01:32.884 --> 00:01:33.603 hard work is. 00:01:33.704 --> 00:01:35.686 Back in my day, agreed, said that, 00:01:36.106 --> 00:01:36.507 heard that. 00:01:37.506 --> 00:01:37.745 Again, 00:01:37.786 --> 00:01:39.266 if I don't think it's a work ethic 00:01:39.287 --> 00:01:40.989 problem, then what is it, Jimmy? 00:01:41.629 --> 00:01:43.150 I think it's a conversion problem. 00:01:43.971 --> 00:01:45.552 Again, I think Chris Voss, 00:01:45.893 --> 00:01:47.653 who's an FBI hostage negotiator, 00:01:48.015 --> 00:01:49.615 would point this out and he would say, 00:01:49.956 --> 00:01:52.697 one side of the argument is talking in 00:01:52.978 --> 00:01:54.540 logic and the other is talking about 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:57.763 emotion and neither is better and neither 00:01:57.822 --> 00:01:59.924 is right and neither is wrong. 00:02:00.185 --> 00:02:01.045 How could that be? 00:02:01.486 --> 00:02:02.626 Someone's gotta be right. 00:02:03.206 --> 00:02:04.188 Let's walk through this. 00:02:05.509 --> 00:02:05.929 First of all, 00:02:05.989 --> 00:02:07.010 you have to know who these people are. 00:02:07.471 --> 00:02:09.431 Rob has more than more than forty years 00:02:09.772 --> 00:02:10.872 experience in the profession. 00:02:11.014 --> 00:02:12.634 He's not theorizing the things he's 00:02:12.675 --> 00:02:14.776 talking about and describing in terms of a 00:02:14.817 --> 00:02:15.497 career path. 00:02:15.877 --> 00:02:17.018 He actually lived. 00:02:17.139 --> 00:02:19.920 He actually walked and he's written. 00:02:20.100 --> 00:02:21.262 And here's I'm going to quote as much 00:02:21.282 --> 00:02:21.782 as possible. 00:02:22.062 --> 00:02:23.263 So I don't put words in anybody's mouth. 00:02:23.804 --> 00:02:24.664 I have enough words in my mouth. 00:02:25.384 --> 00:02:27.167 He said to achieve the professional and 00:02:27.206 --> 00:02:28.967 financial success desired, 00:02:29.068 --> 00:02:32.890 a physical therapist must provide value. 00:02:32.931 --> 00:02:33.472 Don't disagree. 00:02:34.177 --> 00:02:34.698 He continues, 00:02:34.878 --> 00:02:37.561 founded upon an exceptional work ethic and 00:02:38.281 --> 00:02:40.443 clinical knowledge and skill set exceeding 00:02:40.462 --> 00:02:43.185 those of your peers. 00:02:43.205 --> 00:02:43.825 That's true. 00:02:44.866 --> 00:02:46.888 Historically, that worked. 00:02:47.908 --> 00:02:50.890 The latter looked a little something like 00:02:50.931 --> 00:02:51.191 this. 00:02:51.412 --> 00:02:52.612 Would love for you to correct me if 00:02:52.712 --> 00:02:53.173 I'm wrong. 00:02:53.272 --> 00:02:54.373 Anybody listening or watching. 00:02:55.506 --> 00:02:57.747 Get really good, produce great outcomes, 00:02:57.986 --> 00:02:59.546 earn trust, build referrals, 00:02:59.727 --> 00:03:01.707 gain leverage, see financial upside. 00:03:02.467 --> 00:03:03.968 That ladder existed. 00:03:04.588 --> 00:03:06.169 A lot of people climbed it. 00:03:06.650 --> 00:03:07.629 Rob is one of them. 00:03:08.971 --> 00:03:10.031 That's what it feels like. 00:03:10.110 --> 00:03:11.330 So I'm trying to read into what Rob 00:03:11.371 --> 00:03:11.611 said. 00:03:11.771 --> 00:03:12.572 I don't disagree. 00:03:14.231 --> 00:03:15.953 I think Rob is also very clear about 00:03:16.013 --> 00:03:18.054 something that people keep misinterpreting 00:03:18.093 --> 00:03:18.454 as well. 00:03:19.914 --> 00:03:20.435 Rob says, 00:03:20.495 --> 00:03:23.258 working hard was not implying to increase 00:03:23.298 --> 00:03:24.938 the number of patients seen in a day. 00:03:25.179 --> 00:03:27.480 I think that's a quote. 00:03:27.501 --> 00:03:29.122 I think that's good news for everybody. 00:03:30.122 --> 00:03:32.024 Rob defines hard work in this way. 00:03:32.223 --> 00:03:32.724 Here's a quote, 00:03:33.284 --> 00:03:35.486 working hard implies continuing education, 00:03:35.546 --> 00:03:36.747 spending time with surgeons, 00:03:36.927 --> 00:03:38.848 learning the business of physical therapy. 00:03:39.669 --> 00:03:40.569 All the things I just said, 00:03:41.561 --> 00:03:42.762 Bill value. 00:03:42.782 --> 00:03:45.524 The question I think newer physical 00:03:45.544 --> 00:03:48.245 therapists are asking isn't whether 00:03:48.406 --> 00:03:51.127 everything Rob said creates value. 00:03:52.768 --> 00:03:54.810 It's whether that value still converts 00:03:55.250 --> 00:03:58.692 into upside predictably. 00:03:58.931 --> 00:04:00.873 See how I'd pause for dramatic effect? 00:04:00.894 --> 00:04:02.875 Because I think that's why I don't think 00:04:02.895 --> 00:04:03.915 it's a hard work problem. 00:04:04.395 --> 00:04:06.837 I think this is a conversion problem. 00:04:07.647 --> 00:04:09.468 Let me give you a scenario that I 00:04:10.169 --> 00:04:11.150 read often. 00:04:12.091 --> 00:04:13.792 A new grad PT starts their first job, 00:04:14.171 --> 00:04:14.872 ready to work hard. 00:04:15.633 --> 00:04:18.495 Productivity expectations, let's say, 00:04:18.535 --> 00:04:20.096 fourteen to sixteen patients a day. 00:04:20.456 --> 00:04:22.038 Documentation bleeds into nights. 00:04:22.458 --> 00:04:24.499 Student loan payments begin a few months 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:25.360 after graduating. 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.562 They're encouraged to get involved, 00:04:29.583 --> 00:04:30.504 do some of that hard work. 00:04:30.663 --> 00:04:31.423 Unpaid weekends, 00:04:31.524 --> 00:04:32.504 we can call it what it is, 00:04:33.384 --> 00:04:35.687 unpaid weekends, shadowing surgeons, 00:04:35.786 --> 00:04:36.487 more courses. 00:04:37.678 --> 00:04:40.622 while raises are modest and ownership 00:04:40.802 --> 00:04:43.605 isn't really on the table a lot of 00:04:43.685 --> 00:04:44.084 times. 00:04:45.266 --> 00:04:46.548 Is this why we see a lot of 00:04:46.567 --> 00:04:51.853 the single provider clinics popping up? 00:04:51.913 --> 00:04:52.973 Spoiler alert, I believe so. 00:04:54.235 --> 00:04:55.497 In my example there, 00:04:55.576 --> 00:04:58.158 that new grad PT or that plucky PT 00:04:58.259 --> 00:04:59.360 isn't avoiding effort. 00:05:00.336 --> 00:05:01.637 They're asking a question. 00:05:01.737 --> 00:05:04.319 They're trying to understand the return. 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:05.521 This goes back to my premise. 00:05:05.841 --> 00:05:07.583 Is this a hard work problem or a 00:05:07.622 --> 00:05:10.245 conversion problem? 00:05:10.264 --> 00:05:11.966 The question I feel like we're being asked 00:05:12.047 --> 00:05:12.206 is, 00:05:12.266 --> 00:05:13.749 or that the new grad PT is asking, 00:05:14.569 --> 00:05:17.252 if and when I become exceptional to what 00:05:17.312 --> 00:05:18.093 Rob just said, 00:05:19.666 --> 00:05:22.588 Who gets rewarded for that? 00:05:23.187 --> 00:05:23.908 Now, keep in mind, 00:05:24.067 --> 00:05:25.327 I like to look at similarities and 00:05:25.367 --> 00:05:25.848 differences. 00:05:26.247 --> 00:05:27.488 So Rob did this as well. 00:05:27.548 --> 00:05:28.548 He brought it and we'll bring up an 00:05:28.689 --> 00:05:30.189 Elon Musk reference later. 00:05:30.869 --> 00:05:32.649 But let me bring up some parallels and 00:05:32.670 --> 00:05:34.910 we'll see if they're similar or different. 00:05:35.529 --> 00:05:36.790 Journalism went through this. 00:05:37.430 --> 00:05:38.690 Retail went through this. 00:05:39.230 --> 00:05:40.951 Tech is going through this now. 00:05:42.132 --> 00:05:44.072 When professions move from apprenticeship 00:05:44.211 --> 00:05:47.173 ladders to efficiency systems ladders, 00:05:49.170 --> 00:05:51.190 excellence doesn't disappear, 00:05:53.471 --> 00:05:55.413 but when professions move from these 00:05:55.473 --> 00:05:57.093 ladders to efficiency systems, 00:05:58.055 --> 00:05:59.696 it just stops converting well. 00:06:00.615 --> 00:06:06.579 As in, hey, in my experience, work hard, 00:06:08.170 --> 00:06:08.951 work nights, 00:06:09.572 --> 00:06:12.134 work weekends at radio stations for little 00:06:12.173 --> 00:06:12.995 to no pay. 00:06:13.514 --> 00:06:14.036 Keep in mind, 00:06:14.536 --> 00:06:16.798 I worked for several years with no pay. 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:19.439 I was okay with that because I saw 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:19.961 the ladder. 00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:22.002 I saw the first rung that I was 00:06:22.142 --> 00:06:24.545 on and I saw other people around me 00:06:25.264 --> 00:06:27.586 who were one, two, fifteen steps ahead. 00:06:28.028 --> 00:06:30.069 I understand this for that. 00:06:30.228 --> 00:06:32.190 Quid pro quo. 00:06:32.531 --> 00:06:34.572 Turns out studying Latin in journalism 00:06:34.593 --> 00:06:35.374 school actually makes sense. 00:06:36.658 --> 00:06:38.420 I think that's the shift people are 00:06:38.459 --> 00:06:39.100 reacting to, 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.302 in that the latter isn't converting 00:06:43.502 --> 00:06:44.002 anymore. 00:06:44.502 --> 00:06:45.083 So they're not saying, 00:06:45.103 --> 00:06:45.983 I don't want to work hard. 00:06:46.023 --> 00:06:46.463 They're going to go, 00:06:46.483 --> 00:06:48.543 I'm going to keep staying on rung one. 00:06:49.404 --> 00:06:49.964 Why bother? 00:06:52.206 --> 00:06:53.266 What's my citation? 00:06:54.526 --> 00:06:56.468 People leaving the profession at mass. 00:06:57.608 --> 00:07:00.348 So Rob is also direct about reimbursement, 00:07:00.369 --> 00:07:00.910 which I agree. 00:07:01.985 --> 00:07:03.346 Reimbursement rates will likely not 00:07:03.387 --> 00:07:03.987 increase soon. 00:07:04.507 --> 00:07:05.889 PTs are gonna have to work hard. 00:07:06.170 --> 00:07:06.750 Here's where I'm gonna, 00:07:07.069 --> 00:07:09.291 and I've invited Rob to talk about this. 00:07:11.093 --> 00:07:13.415 I don't understand what that part means 00:07:13.555 --> 00:07:15.216 because I think, I'll say it again, 00:07:15.697 --> 00:07:17.319 reimbursement rates will likely not 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:17.980 increase soon. 00:07:18.579 --> 00:07:20.242 Hard disagree, I'm sorry, hard agree, 00:07:20.302 --> 00:07:20.882 agree. 00:07:20.982 --> 00:07:21.723 Agree, agree, agree. 00:07:22.103 --> 00:07:25.485 If you listen to our live streams with 00:07:25.545 --> 00:07:28.088 Tony and Dave Kittle, it's not going to. 00:07:29.166 --> 00:07:31.249 rob rob is actually kind reimbursement 00:07:31.288 --> 00:07:33.410 rates will likely not increase soon i 00:07:33.430 --> 00:07:34.810 would come in and go i will triple 00:07:34.831 --> 00:07:36.892 down on rob what rob said they will 00:07:36.952 --> 00:07:40.574 not increase soon or otherwise pretend 00:07:40.735 --> 00:07:43.437 they're zero what if insurance could be 00:07:43.458 --> 00:07:44.617 the loss leader that's a different 00:07:44.658 --> 00:07:46.920 conversation here's my confusion about 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.461 rob's quote reimbursement rates will 00:07:49.482 --> 00:07:52.064 likely not increase pts are going to have 00:07:52.084 --> 00:07:55.406 to work hard agreed but that leads to 00:07:55.446 --> 00:07:57.288 a fair follow-up question how 00:07:59.237 --> 00:08:00.920 I don't think new grads or anybody, 00:08:00.939 --> 00:08:01.879 I don't think it matters where you are 00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:02.341 in your career. 00:08:02.661 --> 00:08:04.682 I don't think physical therapists treating 00:08:04.702 --> 00:08:06.524 clinicians are avoiding effort for the 00:08:06.564 --> 00:08:06.985 most part. 00:08:08.826 --> 00:08:09.706 I'd stand behind that. 00:08:09.726 --> 00:08:11.028 I don't think they're avoiding effort. 00:08:13.129 --> 00:08:14.531 I think they're questioning the return, 00:08:16.033 --> 00:08:17.593 which is a thing I also hear many 00:08:17.634 --> 00:08:19.396 people say, well, 00:08:19.475 --> 00:08:21.637 then PT students need to understand, 00:08:22.778 --> 00:08:25.221 become financially literate. 00:08:26.225 --> 00:08:27.567 Get it economically literate. 00:08:27.586 --> 00:08:29.367 When you sign on that dotted line to 00:08:29.408 --> 00:08:30.528 take out your loan, 00:08:31.509 --> 00:08:33.091 understand what you're committing to and 00:08:33.110 --> 00:08:33.672 you pay back. 00:08:33.711 --> 00:08:34.792 You pay back every nickel. 00:08:34.893 --> 00:08:35.452 Agreed. 00:08:38.095 --> 00:08:39.956 I think what they're doing here while they 00:08:39.995 --> 00:08:40.456 work, they go, 00:08:40.537 --> 00:08:41.677 so I'm going to do this. 00:08:41.798 --> 00:08:43.339 I'm looking at the ladder and I don't 00:08:43.379 --> 00:08:46.240 see many people on it and the people 00:08:46.260 --> 00:08:47.402 that are aren't moving. 00:08:48.856 --> 00:08:51.759 I don't think they're avoiding effort. 00:08:51.839 --> 00:08:53.399 They're questioning the ROI. 00:08:53.438 --> 00:08:54.500 That's not entitlement. 00:08:54.580 --> 00:08:56.041 This is where I think an agreement, 00:08:56.260 --> 00:08:57.381 the disagreement happens. 00:08:57.761 --> 00:08:58.302 Right here. 00:08:58.562 --> 00:08:59.602 This is the intersection. 00:09:00.903 --> 00:09:03.764 That's not entitlement, everybody. 00:09:03.804 --> 00:09:07.687 That's asking questions to become economic 00:09:09.427 --> 00:09:09.847 literacy. 00:09:10.187 --> 00:09:10.928 That's a path to it. 00:09:10.989 --> 00:09:12.229 Hey, I'm going to do all this. 00:09:12.528 --> 00:09:12.789 Good. 00:09:12.929 --> 00:09:13.669 I'm okay with that. 00:09:13.970 --> 00:09:15.270 And then I'm going to get... 00:09:15.291 --> 00:09:16.932 We'll figure that out later. 00:09:16.991 --> 00:09:17.111 Just... 00:09:18.706 --> 00:09:21.328 anybody who says that to you run away 00:09:21.349 --> 00:09:24.171 from that person when they clearly define 00:09:24.192 --> 00:09:26.874 what you need to do and then says, 00:09:26.894 --> 00:09:29.096 we'll figure out where this goes later. 00:09:29.937 --> 00:09:31.599 I gotta be honest to me personally, 00:09:32.219 --> 00:09:33.941 big red flag. 00:09:34.160 --> 00:09:35.582 I think that's where the issue is. 00:09:36.644 --> 00:09:40.727 Um, now we go into, uh, 00:09:41.620 --> 00:09:45.404 a quote from Rob where he parallels this 00:09:45.764 --> 00:09:46.986 similarly to what I did, 00:09:47.027 --> 00:09:48.567 where I said journalism did this and 00:09:48.609 --> 00:09:49.089 retail. 00:09:49.750 --> 00:09:51.270 The examples in journalism, retail, 00:09:51.311 --> 00:09:53.653 and tech, journalism was be an apprentice, 00:09:55.115 --> 00:09:56.897 eat shit, make not a lot of money, 00:09:56.976 --> 00:09:57.477 work hard, 00:09:57.577 --> 00:09:57.837 but 00:09:58.563 --> 00:10:00.144 We all did it and we all progressed. 00:10:00.205 --> 00:10:00.945 Look, look around. 00:10:01.125 --> 00:10:02.586 That person's been there for three years, 00:10:02.645 --> 00:10:03.485 five years, seven years. 00:10:03.566 --> 00:10:04.326 Now see where they are now. 00:10:04.947 --> 00:10:06.147 Retail was the same way. 00:10:06.427 --> 00:10:09.447 Fold shirts, bus tables, be a waiter, 00:10:09.488 --> 00:10:10.469 become a manager, become a, 00:10:10.908 --> 00:10:11.948 like there was a ladder. 00:10:13.669 --> 00:10:15.910 But those systems don't operate that way 00:10:15.931 --> 00:10:16.270 anymore. 00:10:16.471 --> 00:10:19.613 Neither does PT, in my opinion. 00:10:20.133 --> 00:10:21.332 Rob does something similar. 00:10:21.373 --> 00:10:23.774 He references Elon Musk as an example of 00:10:23.813 --> 00:10:25.315 what hard work can produce. 00:10:27.788 --> 00:10:29.470 Extreme effort can lead to extreme 00:10:29.549 --> 00:10:31.610 outcomes. 00:10:31.650 --> 00:10:32.412 Here's the problem. 00:10:32.711 --> 00:10:33.732 That's cherry picking. 00:10:33.832 --> 00:10:34.953 That's a logical fallacy. 00:10:35.355 --> 00:10:38.336 Outliers don't explain systems. 00:10:38.356 --> 00:10:39.317 They obscure them. 00:10:39.818 --> 00:10:41.960 Most PTs aren't trying to achieve the 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.761 thing that Elon Musk is trying to achieve. 00:10:43.782 --> 00:10:45.182 They're not trying to become billionaires. 00:10:45.543 --> 00:10:47.164 They're trying to build sustainable 00:10:47.205 --> 00:10:47.664 careers. 00:10:48.066 --> 00:10:49.907 So I think that parallel, 00:10:50.368 --> 00:10:51.469 that one doesn't hold up. 00:10:53.379 --> 00:10:55.440 I also don't think this is old PT 00:10:55.460 --> 00:10:56.581 versus young PT. 00:10:56.942 --> 00:10:57.621 I, again, 00:10:57.662 --> 00:10:59.482 will reiterate the core of what I think 00:10:59.523 --> 00:11:00.384 this is and is not. 00:11:00.764 --> 00:11:03.105 I don't think it's a work ethic issue 00:11:03.166 --> 00:11:04.167 versus entitlement. 00:11:05.547 --> 00:11:07.589 One is logic, one is emotion. 00:11:07.749 --> 00:11:08.549 See how Chris Voss, 00:11:08.590 --> 00:11:09.889 the hostage negotiator would come in and 00:11:09.910 --> 00:11:10.051 be like, 00:11:10.091 --> 00:11:11.311 you guys are just gonna be two dogs 00:11:11.351 --> 00:11:12.331 barking at each other and you're never 00:11:12.351 --> 00:11:13.633 gonna solve this unless you actually 00:11:13.653 --> 00:11:15.413 understand what the disconnect is. 00:11:17.034 --> 00:11:17.696 Here's what I mean. 00:11:17.775 --> 00:11:18.976 Here's where I agree with Rob. 00:11:20.217 --> 00:11:21.938 Hard work didn't stop working. 00:11:23.464 --> 00:11:25.385 the system stopped converting it into 00:11:25.446 --> 00:11:30.389 upside consistently. 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:31.650 I think you need to ask yourself the 00:11:31.691 --> 00:11:33.351 question, which forms of hard, 00:11:33.451 --> 00:11:36.514 which forms of hard work still compound 00:11:37.034 --> 00:11:38.836 and which ones are just extractive? 00:11:39.517 --> 00:11:40.778 That in my opinion, 00:11:40.878 --> 00:11:42.840 and I cannot speak for all of new 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:45.562 grad PTs, that is what they're asking. 00:11:47.784 --> 00:11:47.965 I mean, 00:11:47.985 --> 00:11:49.706 it's very confusing to me when people say 00:11:49.725 --> 00:11:51.067 like these kids today don't want to work 00:11:51.106 --> 00:11:53.568 hard or are they looking at what the 00:11:53.589 --> 00:11:58.812 hard work is and downfield on what it 00:11:58.893 --> 00:12:01.914 might bring and saying that math don't 00:12:01.955 --> 00:12:02.254 math. 00:12:04.501 --> 00:12:05.842 I can't speak for everybody that would be 00:12:05.883 --> 00:12:06.523 disingenuous. 00:12:07.062 --> 00:12:08.823 I feel like that's what it is. 00:12:09.744 --> 00:12:11.924 I think Rob's experience matters a lot, 00:12:12.125 --> 00:12:12.745 forty years. 00:12:13.345 --> 00:12:14.505 And if you look at his resume and 00:12:14.525 --> 00:12:15.706 I'll share his LinkedIn profile, 00:12:15.926 --> 00:12:16.567 it's legit, man. 00:12:16.586 --> 00:12:17.447 This guy's done the thing. 00:12:19.426 --> 00:12:21.227 I also think new grad frustration matters 00:12:21.368 --> 00:12:22.589 and what they're looking at. 00:12:22.749 --> 00:12:24.210 I think their response is actually 00:12:24.230 --> 00:12:24.750 appropriate. 00:12:25.110 --> 00:12:27.613 How could both people in this scenario be 00:12:27.712 --> 00:12:27.993 right? 00:12:28.374 --> 00:12:30.615 It's because one's talking about logic and 00:12:30.634 --> 00:12:31.755 the way something used to be, 00:12:32.336 --> 00:12:34.018 and one is talking about how it is 00:12:34.158 --> 00:12:34.399 now. 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:36.580 What does this matter? 00:12:37.221 --> 00:12:38.621 My professor in PT school taught me 00:12:38.662 --> 00:12:39.903 research, Jason Craig, 00:12:41.163 --> 00:12:42.264 told me to look at things this way. 00:12:42.404 --> 00:12:44.287 What, so what, now what? 00:12:44.307 --> 00:12:45.488 I think the now what thing, 00:12:45.648 --> 00:12:46.548 we're seeing that. 00:12:47.741 --> 00:12:49.663 Professions don't lose talent when people 00:12:49.682 --> 00:12:50.962 stop caring or working hard. 00:12:52.844 --> 00:12:53.964 Nope. 00:12:53.984 --> 00:12:56.085 They lose talent when effort and reward 00:12:56.424 --> 00:12:57.985 drift too far apart. 00:12:59.265 --> 00:13:00.767 You're asking smart people, 00:13:01.047 --> 00:13:03.347 smart people to make a dumb decision and 00:13:03.388 --> 00:13:05.568 you're confused when they just don't. 00:13:06.288 --> 00:13:07.610 And then you blame the effort. 00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:10.030 Isn't that funny? 00:13:10.171 --> 00:13:13.672 Like you're talking about logic. 00:13:14.096 --> 00:13:16.636 Hard work over time equals output, 00:13:17.018 --> 00:13:18.038 but not in this system. 00:13:19.038 --> 00:13:20.318 I don't know if anybody would disagree, 00:13:20.359 --> 00:13:22.080 but I would implore you to. 00:13:23.421 --> 00:13:24.860 And then in comes the new grad PT 00:13:25.241 --> 00:13:27.643 using that logic saying, okay, show me. 00:13:28.663 --> 00:13:33.066 Hard work over time equals ambiguity. 00:13:34.066 --> 00:13:36.086 So if we want to keep great people 00:13:36.106 --> 00:13:36.866 in physical therapy, 00:13:36.908 --> 00:13:38.048 which it sounds like we do, 00:13:38.248 --> 00:13:39.668 I don't know that there's much agreement 00:13:39.708 --> 00:13:39.908 there. 00:13:40.448 --> 00:13:42.350 We have to get honest about where effort 00:13:42.389 --> 00:13:43.650 still creates leverage. 00:13:46.577 --> 00:13:47.818 Because it's not where it used to be. 00:13:48.019 --> 00:13:48.700 I'm going to say that again. 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:50.980 It's not where it used to be. 00:13:52.503 --> 00:13:53.482 It's other places. 00:13:53.803 --> 00:13:57.086 I agree with Rob there. 00:13:57.105 --> 00:14:00.269 But that's where I think Rob's sentiments 00:14:00.808 --> 00:14:01.830 and his view of things, 00:14:01.870 --> 00:14:03.571 he's been doing it for forty years. 00:14:03.971 --> 00:14:05.272 I think that is a strength, 00:14:06.033 --> 00:14:08.215 but could also be a blind spot. 00:14:09.174 --> 00:14:12.878 Because what worked forty years ago 00:14:12.898 --> 00:14:13.778 doesn't always work now. 00:14:15.423 --> 00:14:17.205 So I'm going to give Rob a question 00:14:17.245 --> 00:14:18.365 list and I would love to hear his 00:14:18.404 --> 00:14:19.206 thoughts on this. 00:14:19.346 --> 00:14:22.527 I would love to hear yours because I 00:14:22.567 --> 00:14:24.187 think we are like two dogs just barking 00:14:24.207 --> 00:14:24.607 at each other. 00:14:24.788 --> 00:14:26.428 When one side of the equation says, 00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:27.928 these kids today don't work hard. 00:14:28.169 --> 00:14:29.009 And the other side says, 00:14:30.009 --> 00:14:32.331 but that work won't lead to anything I 00:14:32.410 --> 00:14:32.851 value. 00:14:34.032 --> 00:14:35.373 Notice how I keep using the same words 00:14:35.432 --> 00:14:36.352 Rob did, which is good. 00:14:36.613 --> 00:14:37.413 It's not just money. 00:14:37.994 --> 00:14:39.695 I didn't go into radio to become Elon 00:14:39.735 --> 00:14:39.995 Musk. 00:14:41.081 --> 00:14:42.100 I wanted to get up out of bed 00:14:42.142 --> 00:14:42.942 and love what I did. 00:14:43.501 --> 00:14:45.062 But my first year out of college, 00:14:45.163 --> 00:14:47.703 I made fifteen thousand dollars a year. 00:14:47.744 --> 00:14:48.004 Sorry, 00:14:48.323 --> 00:14:49.884 fifteen thousand five hundred dollars a 00:14:49.904 --> 00:14:51.044 year in two thousand one. 00:14:52.225 --> 00:14:55.167 As a broadcaster, loved it, loved it, 00:14:55.407 --> 00:14:57.408 was OK with that until I did that 00:14:57.427 --> 00:14:59.609 for two years and got promoted three times 00:14:59.649 --> 00:15:01.789 in two years with no raise. 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:03.370 And then I was looking downfield. 00:15:04.443 --> 00:15:06.985 oh, this isn't going to convert. 00:15:07.105 --> 00:15:09.284 So I was that plucky young journalist, 00:15:09.625 --> 00:15:11.985 that plucky young broadcaster who had to 00:15:12.346 --> 00:15:13.527 do the nights and weekends, 00:15:13.846 --> 00:15:15.647 sign up for sitting in the floats for 00:15:15.687 --> 00:15:16.467 all the parades, 00:15:16.827 --> 00:15:18.227 doing the things other people didn't wanna 00:15:18.268 --> 00:15:19.207 do, fine. 00:15:20.288 --> 00:15:21.629 I wasn't ever gonna be a billionaire, 00:15:21.928 --> 00:15:22.649 also okay. 00:15:23.149 --> 00:15:24.029 I was fine with it. 00:15:25.330 --> 00:15:26.971 But when I started looking around saying, 00:15:27.350 --> 00:15:27.990 oh, 00:15:28.951 --> 00:15:30.871 this hard work isn't gonna move me up 00:15:30.912 --> 00:15:31.392 the rung. 00:15:33.394 --> 00:15:36.176 And when I was confronted with that math 00:15:36.216 --> 00:15:36.657 equation, 00:15:36.777 --> 00:15:38.337 I couldn't just go start a radio station 00:15:38.498 --> 00:15:39.558 in two thousand and two. 00:15:40.078 --> 00:15:41.980 You couldn't you couldn't do it. 00:15:42.841 --> 00:15:43.522 So I opted out. 00:15:45.102 --> 00:15:47.284 I worked from age eleven to age twenty 00:15:47.485 --> 00:15:49.407 one to be a broadcaster, became that, 00:15:49.447 --> 00:15:50.327 did it for two years, 00:15:50.607 --> 00:15:52.428 did everything right to me as an air 00:15:52.469 --> 00:15:53.850 quotes, did everything right. 00:15:56.052 --> 00:15:56.613 And still had. 00:15:57.898 --> 00:15:59.038 To ask myself that question, 00:15:59.077 --> 00:16:00.119 if I keep doing this, 00:16:00.538 --> 00:16:02.879 will the juice match the squeeze? 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.460 And the answer was no. 00:16:05.941 --> 00:16:09.162 So I left. 00:16:09.201 --> 00:16:11.282 I lucked out because on the way out 00:16:11.322 --> 00:16:12.482 the door, I ran into someone who said, 00:16:12.582 --> 00:16:14.263 I will reward that work and I will 00:16:14.302 --> 00:16:15.043 show you how to do it. 00:16:15.123 --> 00:16:16.624 So there are ways to do it. 00:16:17.144 --> 00:16:19.644 But simply blaming someone for doing the 00:16:19.705 --> 00:16:21.504 math and not liking the outcome, 00:16:21.524 --> 00:16:23.145 I got to be honest, it's lazy. 00:16:26.405 --> 00:16:28.368 if I channeled my own inner Chris Voss, 00:16:28.427 --> 00:16:28.868 I would say, 00:16:30.889 --> 00:16:33.850 understanding what logic and emotion the 00:16:33.951 --> 00:16:36.894 other side is living in is probably a 00:16:36.913 --> 00:16:37.474 good first step. 00:16:38.914 --> 00:16:39.995 So I'll have Rob on. 00:16:40.096 --> 00:16:41.216 I think we're, I mean, 00:16:41.236 --> 00:16:42.356 he brings up a great point. 00:16:42.397 --> 00:16:44.038 And I think the reason his posts caught 00:16:44.078 --> 00:16:50.562 fire and got a lot of interaction is 00:16:50.582 --> 00:16:52.203 because this is a really important issue 00:16:52.224 --> 00:16:53.565 that we haven't figured out yet. 00:16:53.926 --> 00:16:54.985 And I'm not here to say that I've 00:16:55.025 --> 00:16:55.506 figured it out. 00:16:56.277 --> 00:16:57.057 But from my perspective, 00:16:57.097 --> 00:16:58.658 I feel like that might be one thing. 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.344 And I'll reiterate it again as I close. 00:17:03.384 --> 00:17:04.125 My parting shot, 00:17:04.644 --> 00:17:06.247 this isn't a work ethic problem. 00:17:07.047 --> 00:17:07.968 Say that all day. 00:17:08.568 --> 00:17:09.410 I think you're wrong. 00:17:10.230 --> 00:17:11.392 It's a conversion problem. 00:17:11.551 --> 00:17:13.473 And until you fix that conversion factor, 00:17:16.604 --> 00:17:17.663 That's it for this one, 00:17:17.923 --> 00:17:19.644 but we're just getting warmed up. 00:17:20.085 --> 00:17:21.986 Smash follow, send it to a friend, 00:17:22.205 --> 00:17:23.865 or crank up the next episode. 00:17:24.365 --> 00:17:25.426 Want to go deeper? 00:17:25.547 --> 00:17:27.887 Hit us at pgpinecast.com. 00:17:29.147 --> 00:17:31.128 Or find us on YouTube and socials at 00:17:31.348 --> 00:17:32.368 pgpinecast. 00:17:32.788 --> 00:17:35.069 And legally, none of this was advice. 00:17:35.150 --> 00:17:36.890 It's for entertainment purposes only. 00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:37.471 Bullshit! 00:17:38.570 --> 00:17:39.151 See, Keith? 00:17:39.351 --> 00:17:40.412 We read the script. 00:17:40.692 --> 00:17:41.392 Happy now?