You're listening to the PT Pinecast,
where smart people in healthcare come to
make noise.
Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.
I like it.
I had this big fancy intro all prepared
that I'm like,
I think I'm just going to be like,
this is like base.
I'll go basics.
Today's guest has been on the show
multiple times.
He built a cash-based clinic before it was
the thing.
He served in the military,
then decided to the behest of a lot
of people around him, like,
what are you doing,
to build a business serving athletes on
his own terms.
Now he coaches other people, clinicians,
how to do what he did,
avoid the volume trap, grow practices,
make work work again,
but make it meaningful.
That's like the funny part, right?
Like,
When it's meaningful,
it doesn't really feel like work,
but you're working.
So he's not just running a clinic.
He built a movement.
And he let me call him by the
wrong name for the first five years that
we knew each other.
I kept calling you Danny.
I kept saying Mata because I don't know.
I said it and you didn't correct me.
So it's Matei.
I've been doing it my whole life, dude.
You're not saying it wrong.
My family says it wrong.
It's literally like...
It's just a couple of letters that got
removed on Ellis Island, you know, story.
And then my great,
great grandfather was just too stubborn to
stop pronouncing our A as if it didn't
have vowels.
It was D Mateo.
And then they removed some letters and he
refused to drop the way the A sounded.
So this has been generations of us now.
And when we find out, we're like,
this is silly.
One of us is going to have to
stop,
but I don't necessarily want it to be
me at this point.
So maybe one of my kids will change
it.
Yeah.
Do you remember meeting up in Alexandria?
We were at a coffee shop.
We got tacos.
That's what it was.
We were at Taco Joy.
And you were doing Doc and Danny.
Yeah.
Your podcast from a million years ago.
I mean,
ten years ago or nine years ago.
And you were having a moment with me
where you were like, what's your deal,
man?
And I think,
was I still in PT school?
Maybe I just graduated.
You had just graduated,
as best I remember.
But yeah, I remember like...
Because, so we had that, that podcast.
So it was myself and a really good
friend of mine who his wife and I
went to PT school together.
He was a fantastic strength coach.
So it was, you know, doc and jock.
He was the jock.
I was the doc.
We would mix strength and conditioning and
PT stuff.
And we would just really,
it was a reason for us to be
able to get people to talk to us
about what we wanted to learn anyway.
Cause everybody would say Trojan horse.
I know everybody was saying yes.
So we basically had this like,
pseudo, I don't know,
advanced training from people that we
could interview.
It was almost like an extra master's
degree or something just from the
conversations.
And he and I like to chat about
this stuff anyway.
So we were going to like, I mean,
I would call him like, hey,
what are you doing with people, whatever.
And I would talk about what I was
learning.
So we just decided we would record it.
And we did that for years.
And in fact, it even got fairly like
popular as far as downloads go.
I mean,
we were getting fifty to seventy thousand
downloads a month.
But what was happening was I was getting
a lot more feedback from people,
a lot more questions about business stuff
because I would bring that up
occasionally.
So eventually, you know,
I moved over to just talking about
business.
And that's really all I've been doing for
the last seven years or so.
And, you know, but you at the time,
I remember I was like,
this podcast is awesome.
Like,
what are you going to do with this?
Because, you know,
it's it's a you don't want it to
be just a
I guess a time consuming hobby.
If,
if it's something you want to like build
a career around and you really are good
at, which you're very good at this.
And this has been going,
how many years has this been going for?
That's insane, dude.
Ten years.
I didn't think it would go ten months,
like ten weeks.
Shoot, I started it as a six pack.
I was like,
let me do six episodes over beers.
That'd be cute.
And then we did six and we got
like a response and people were like,
what are you doing next?
And I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm a second year PT student.
I don't know anything.
Um,
so then I just kept doing it because
I kept getting out of it more than
I put in, you know, you put,
you know, you put effort in,
but every time I'd be like,
look at this cool idea.
I wouldn't have gotten to like,
I like reading books, um,
and we'll get to your book in a
second.
I want some royalties, by the way.
I'll explain why.
But a human conversation is a life hack,
people.
Not just a podcast.
Having a conversation to give and get is
maybe becoming a lost art.
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that the...
People learn differently.
Some people,
they retain information by reading far
more.
I always found that I did much better
if I listened to things.
I actually am an incredibly bad reader.
I was telling my brother-in-law this
weekend about,
I moved to a middle school halfway through
seventh grade.
So I went to three middle schools and
three high schools.
I moved a lot.
And so the second middle school I go
to, I show up first day.
And the teacher, she, she,
we're in like English class forever.
And she's like, okay, uh, Danny,
you read the next chapter.
And I, I'm an awful outright reader,
like so bad that my kids will request
that my wife read to them instead of
me back when they were younger.
Right.
And so I get there and she goes,
well,
why don't you read this next chapter?
And I go, no, thank you.
Yeah.
She's like, no,
I don't think you understand.
You need to read this or- It's a
request.
Yeah.
So I go,
I'd rather go to the principal's office
because the last thing I want to do
on day one in a new school is
embarrass myself.
And so she sent me to the principal's
office.
I got detention.
My parents were pissed.
They're like, just read.
I go, no, it's bad.
It's terrible.
I don't know what it is.
I can't read very fast.
I'm really like,
there's some sort of disconnect,
but I can listen to stuff and I
can remember it.
So when podcasts would come out or audio
books-
And I found something that would really
help me retain information.
So I gravitated to it personally.
I listen to podcasts.
I mean,
I listen to podcasts in twenty ten.
I mean,
like I remember listening to like Rob Wolf
and the Paleo podcast back in the day,
like trying to learn about nutrition and
things.
And and it just I could retain it.
So I've always really enjoyed the medium.
And I tell people all the time,
just because you enjoy consuming it
doesn't mean you'll enjoy creating it.
But sometimes there is that line.
I go through phases of reading where I'll
be reading two, three books at a time.
And then I'll go six months where I'll
be like, no,
I have no appetite for whatsoever.
And then I'll just go on a phase
where I got to get on a bunch
of planes.
And the next thing you know,
I got three books in the bag again.
And I don't think you should feel bad
for either extreme.
Just do...
whatever, right?
I think it's really important to learn
something somehow,
whether that's a conversation,
whether that's listening to a podcast,
whether that's reading a book,
whether it's reading a journal, you know,
article, whatever it is.
I actually prefer the conversations
because, you know,
if you can talk to somebody that's a
subject matter expert in something, they,
they're typically pretty good at breaking
concepts down as well.
And they just distill these things down to
you instead of you trying to piece things
together.
Like I always,
it's typically maybe the hardest form of
education because
to be able to do that.
But like, that was the unlock for us.
The hack was our podcast is people would
come on and they would explain shit.
We just ask questions that we were
interested in.
If we didn't care if anybody listened to
it, it didn't matter.
But the funny part is when you try
to create,
and people have said this before,
when you try to create something for
everybody, you create it for nobody.
Yeah.
I would have conversations where I was
like, well,
Becky Bliss is a great neuro PT.
And I was in neuro when I launched
the podcast.
And I was like, huh,
I could just ask anybody.
And they're probably going to say yes,
especially PTs or healthcare people.
They're pretty giving.
And I was like, hey, Becky Bliss,
let's talk about concussion because I had
to write a paper on it.
And she literally wrote, I mean,
I could have just copied and pasted the
transcript and been like,
there's my paper.
And she, at the end of the interview,
when we hit record, I was like, hey,
that was awesome.
And she goes, hey,
are you writing a paper on this?
And I go, yeah,
I think I'd said that.
And she was like,
can I send you a Google Drive filled
with all the papers I would reference?
And I was like,
Yes.
Sure.
All my classmates this like that's not
fair.
And I go,
you didn't understand the assignment.
The assignment was to get the most
information synthesized.
I just decided to do it in the
least amount of calories burned.
And I learned more in less time with
less effort.
But that's the point.
Yeah, well, you did something different.
I think this is like to the point
of like people that I see that are
OK with trying to do something different.
And it's not like you cheated, you know,
but but maybe that wasn't explicitly they
didn't explicitly say don't have a
conversation,
the professional to help you with this.
Right.
So you didn't really think anything of it.
This is just something that.
you know you you thought of that would
be helpful and you went for it a
lot of people have ideas a lot of
people think that there's something else
but they don't ever they never do it
they never actually because they're
worried they're going to get in trouble or
it's not going to work and look dumb
or something but whatever or the well if
it was a good idea why isn't everybody
doing it already like you yeah why are
you thinking you're so smart i'm just
going to stay on the safe side i'm
guilty of that myself but then every once
in a while i catch myself going
I rage against those people in private.
Like,
why don't you just try something
different?
Well, hold on.
This doesn't make any sense to me then.
You're not that big of a reader,
but you wrote a book.
Yeah, that's funny, right?
Like, it is ironic.
It was very hard to do, actually.
But, you know,
I think it's different whenever,
I didn't write like a peer-reviewed,
you know,
I didn't write a book on research or
something.
It's still difficult, man.
That's not easy.
I mean,
I can't even say if it's difficult.
I've never done it.
I've never even tried it.
Yeah, for sure.
It is.
It is hard.
It took me a long time.
I got up every morning at like four
thirty and I read.
All right.
I would just write from like four thirty
until like six and then I'd get started
with patients and stuff after that.
And the intention of it was I wanted
to that year.
I was like,
I want to do something like this.
I've always thought like this would be a
challenge.
And so it took me about seven months
of doing that to really- Oh, that's good.
Yeah, it was a lot.
But then you have the editing process and
all those other things.
But the nice part about some of these
things, like forcing yourself to do that,
is it helps force your own concepts to
be more concrete and the way that you
explain them.
Because if you have to type it out,
you can't blabber on about stuff.
And it really helps form some better
infrastructure for what you're teaching
people.
So that helped me a ton.
And the other thing, too,
was at the time, at least,
and there's plenty of people that have
written books in this space,
and many of them are really,
really helpful.
And if anybody that's done something like
that and they're sharing it,
it's usually worth the price of admission.
And books are so cost effective for
gaining knowledge.
But for me,
I didn't have resources when I started my
clinic that were specifically designed to
help with
Going from zero to getting to the point
where you can hire somebody else and also
what to look out for.
I almost felt like if I could write
a book that would help people look around
corners, that would be so helpful.
I basically just wrote the book I wish
I would have had.
That helped me with the project because I
knew that it would be something that would
be helpful for other people.
I didn't know how many people would
actually read it.
I just felt like this would be something
beneficial.
to the profession.
And even if it didn't work out,
at least I could like take some pride
in the fact that I stuck to something
that took so long, you know,
and it did, it was very,
very hard for sure.
But like ballpark it for me, how many,
well,
how long has it been and how many
copies have you sold?
Like, not that that was the point,
but I'm just interested in how many
people,
I think the number of copies you've sold
is not the thing.
The thing is,
look how many people had the same gripe
or the same desire to learn and then
followed through.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
And so so originally the first book that
I wrote is called Fuck Insurance.
And what that's obviously very aggressive
title.
Yes.
And what happened was we actually kept
getting anytime we would post something
about this on social media or whatever,
it would get it would get like.
I would get banned or, you know,
restrict it.
So you can still get that book actually
on Amazon, but we, I updated it.
I rewrote some sections of it that we
had learned more about,
especially like continuity in the backend
sales process and things like that.
And then we,
we updated it to the cash-based practice
field manual, which is what it is now.
And a lot of the core of the
book is,
is similar because the concepts didn't
change,
but some of the things that we learned
evolved and improved and we were able to
to update that but but more importantly we
just couldn't even get it out there um
so you know that when we when we
wrote it originally was that and now it's
this other book but i think we're in
the range of somewhere between twelve and
fifteen thousand copies sold i haven't
actually like looked in a while i don't
really um track it uh too much but
we do we do end up with
I don't know,
it's a few hundred per month, basically,
as far as books go.
And which is really interesting
considering it's such a small niche within
a niche.
Right, right, right.
Yeah, so that's actually been really cool.
I think of it as like, man,
if it's like, you know,
state farm arena almost where the Hawks
play of people that have, you know,
read this, which is awesome.
And the best part that I get from
that actually is,
I'll get people will message me or send
me an email.
And they're like, dude, I read your book.
Like I had somebody tell me that they
started a clinic that now is like
literally multiple seven figures off of
just reading the book.
They're like,
this book was the infrastructure to help
start all these things.
And now they're obviously very talented at
what they do.
But like the,
I guess that just the information they
needed to have the courage to do it
came from, from a really, you know,
affordable book is something that came out
of my brain that somebody else can use.
And it doesn't have to be cost prohibitive
for anybody,
which I think is really amazing about
books.
I reference fucking insurance a lot.
I'll be talking to someone and be like,
yeah, I see what you're trying to do.
Go read his book.
Like I can sit here and try to
give it.
I could tell you to call Danny,
but Danny's doing other stuff.
I'm like, just go read the book.
You got more questions.
Danny's got a resource for you there.
Describe what that looks like.
Like Megan Brown has been like,
you need to come with me.
I don't even run a clinic.
Like that's not what,
but she's been in your room multiple
times.
She doesn't run a clinic either.
We'll get to what Megan Brown does.
Cause I think she's the sneakiest PT and
PT.
Cause she's like, I don't even PT.
And then people come in and they're like,
I'm a PT.
Um, yeah.
What was the next step?
What's that look like?
If someone's like, okay, I read the book,
but I'm hungry or I still need what
you just said,
which was they got some knowledge,
but what they needed was like permission,
even though they don't need it,
but sometimes we want it or we crave
it.
Yeah.
You know,
what's interesting about our profession is
we're typically like quite risk averse
people.
You and I might not necessarily be.
We also know.
I mean,
we also don't really fit the mold based
on the things you're telling me you did
in school and some of the things I
did in my career that were just very
different.
Yeah.
So, you know,
maybe unintentionally or unknowingly,
we we are a little bit more
entrepreneurial than we would have
thought.
But our profession, by and large, is not.
We're quite risk averse.
We go to we go to school under
the assumption we're going to have this
great career, which we were promised.
And, you know,
and it is a very personally rewarding
experience.
career right so i think what happens is
unfortunately a lot of people are
reluctant to make a move away from being
employed in traditional sense because uh
that's not their nature so they have to
actually have typically a lot of
frustration or pain uh to get to the
point where they really start to look at
um this is something i want to do
and i i would say it's changed a
little bit like i've i've presented to pt
schools now for about ten years straight
And one in particular I do every single
year.
And every year I get more and more
interest in cash based physical therapy.
It's just growing within the profession.
But for most people,
they just end up getting frustrated.
And usually it's between three and five
years into the profession.
I see a lot of that sort of
happen where people question whether it's
what I want to do or what I
can do next.
And that's when they start to kind of
start looking around.
Right.
And they're like, what could I. Yeah.
What could it possibly possibly be?
I think a book is a really good
entry point for that.
And then they kind of have they kind
of have three options.
I talk to people about this.
It's like.
Okay,
you need to pick one of these three.
Otherwise,
you're going to be incredibly unhappy.
So number one, you either decide...
Even though you might be a bit frustrated
in your career,
you work in a career field where you
get to make true long-term changes in
other people.
And that is a powerful thing.
Don't take that for granted.
It is noble what we do.
It's very important.
So there's nothing wrong with it.
So maybe you don't make...
three hundred thousand dollars a year but
you know what like you truly help people
you have a great job you have a
lot of stability what you need to do
is focus on being excellent what you do
stop stop looking at other things the
grass is not greener anywhere else like
commit to excellence and you'll be a lot
happier by doing so the second route is
just leave just go and do something else
like if you really think you made a
mistake that's it's not a mistake you
learn
Exactly.
And you learned amazing skills that
transfer to many other professions really
well.
And we see that happen.
So if you really feel like this was
not where you're supposed to be,
no harm in that, man.
Just go and find the next thing and
pursue that.
The third thing is,
if you want to stay in the profession,
this is a lot of people that we
work with,
but you want to do it in a
way where it's lower volume and you have
an opportunity to really have upward
mobility in terms of what you make and
the flexibility in your time and the say
over what you do.
Then a cash based practice really is the
easiest,
most low risk entry point into business
within aside from maybe a digital business
that has a completely different sort of
infrastructure.
But like it's much,
much lower risk than a high volume in
network clinic.
It's much more simplified.
So that's the direction we see a lot
of people go from there.
But it's going to be one of those
three typically.
I tell,
I do this with students a lot and
I like to play with words,
obviously a guy with a degree in
communications and journalism, right?
So I say, listen,
if you're one of those people who's like
in between a couple of those avatars that
Danny just talked about, you're like,
well, I want to,
I call them like the end of the
diving board people.
Like you're there, but you're like,
I'm not, I don't, I want,
but I won't risk it.
So I tell PT students, I'm like, listen,
go get a job,
go get hip and
or a shoulder.
Those are the two options.
Both are ball and socket joints.
You play with anatomy.
Both ball and socket joints.
You're nine to five that you can start
getting paid tomorrow because you have a
heartbeat and a license.
That's your hip.
A lot of stability.
Not a lot of mobility when compared with
the other ball and socket joint,
the shoulder.
Lots of mobility, some stability.
So I tell them, listen,
get one of each.
Get that stable job.
Get some cash underneath you.
Get whatever Dame Ramsey or whatever
pundit says.
Get six months, eight months,
twelve months worth of security money.
Do that.
Get your four one K and your mom
and dad are happy because you got
benefits.
And if you're still a little pissed like
Danny was or other people,
if you're still like, wasn't it?
I thought the ceiling would be higher,
not even money,
but like freedom or whatever it is that
you want.
Build the shoulder on the side.
See if you can hang from it.
See if you can pull yourself up by
it without dislocating it.
And if you have the right archetype,
the right personality, the right talents,
talent is what you're born with.
Skill is what you can learn.
I think you can absolutely learn these
skills because they're skills,
which means you can learn them.
What's stopping you?
Get a hip, get a shoulder.
If the shoulder doesn't work,
go grab another hip.
I think that's a perfect reference for our
profession.
It makes complete sense.
It's a good way to test the waters.
I think a lot of people do that.
Some of it, though,
you also have to understand your own
situation.
I'm not saying you can necessarily...
You have to completely dismiss options,
but somebody who has...
three kids and they take care of their
sick mom has less of an opportunity to
take a risk on themselves as somebody
who's single and has a dog you know
so like you you can't compare yourself to
everybody because you may not necessarily
have the same environment around you you
may have the same opportunity to take a
chance on yourself um but if you do
and and you test it out and it
makes sense then you know all right cool
at least at least you know
whether it's something you like or not.
And there are a lot of people doing
that.
There's definitely a lot of people.
Right.
Like, like,
I don't know if we have numbers on
it or whatever,
but it sure feels and smells and tastes
like in the ether,
people asking questions in dark corners of
Facebook or LinkedIn, you sort of know it.
I mean,
you can spot these people from a mile
away.
Probably it's like, Oh,
you're asking the introductory questions.
You're in the preparing to get ready
phase.
And when you're ready, you're,
What do you bring people into?
I want you to talk about the thing
that I haven't been to yet that Megan
Brown, who we'll get to again, who's like,
this is a thing.
And when you go there,
you see other people.
I think she said something like you see
people can see future versions of
themselves walking around and they're
like, I don't know what it is,
but it's here.
There it is.
Look, look at look at her.
Look at him.
yeah i mean there we really have it's
a very simple it's a very simple education
process for us like we um we help
people get started which is essentially a
six-month uh program we help people scale
up to to you know move into a
standalone space hire all the things they
need to do uh as their business gets
bigger which is twelve months so one the
six month one is real getting started
that's that's called our clinical
rainmaker program and then
The twelve month program is our PT Biz
Mastermind program.
And I think of them actually as one
is a residency and one is a fellowship.
Oh, I like that.
So now I like how you're reversing it.
Great.
Why?
I didn't go to MBA school.
I'd never actually taken a business course
in my life, you know,
but I've been a part of residencies and
fellowships and I've helped teach
coursework.
internationally.
And I've helped stand up programs in the
military.
And one of the big things that we
do is there's a certain way that we
teach people in these higher education
programs.
It's very, very effective.
And I didn't know any other way to
put these things together than what I had
learned and what I'd been a part of.
So the way that we organize our coursework
is based on our experience in fellowships
and residencies.
So the fellowship program is more in
depth.
There's case studies,
there's peer-based learning,
there's things where you're going to have
to
be a big boy big girl put your
big boy big girl pants on and actually
like present your business defend what
you're doing and depth of knowledge is
gained through struggle sometimes like
that but have you know mentors that have
already done what you're trying to do um
the the residency is a little bit more
hand-holding early on because you don't
know as much you know the mindset side
of it is is harder in a lot
of ways um it's really focused on people
learning how to sell and market and get
people in the door so that they can
actually
you know, take,
take a chance on themselves full time.
But in the mastermind,
the coolest part that we get a chance
to do is we get together everybody twice
a year.
And this is what Megan Brown is talking
about.
So Megan was a guest presenter for us
a couple of years ago in Atlanta.
And she's been to every event that we've
had since.
And she, she sells it.
She's like, she doesn't even sell it.
She's like, you need to go.
I'm like, why?
She goes, show up.
And I'm like, all right, you know,
I trust her obviously.
You're welcome at any one, by the way.
The next one we've got is in Charleston.
If you're tired of being cold at the
end of March.
What is it?
I mean, I forget the dates.
It's the end of March.
It'll be a Thursday,
Friday at the end of March.
All right.
If Megan's going, I'm saying it right now,
December sixteenth.
All right.
If Megan's going, I'll show up.
Okay.
I'll follow up with you on this because
I think you would love it, man.
And the thing is,
the reason that I think Megan likes it
is because when you have a room full
of two hundred clinicians that are all
business owners as well,
and they all are trying to do the
same thing.
And they're at different stages of that
journey because some people are making ten
thousand dollars a month.
Some people are making two hundred
thousand dollars a month in their
business.
Right.
And so
You sit in there,
but yet everybody's the same.
We all have the same background.
We all have these businesses that are laid
out similarly.
We all are very mission-driven.
We're very positive people.
I imagine...
you went to a similar group full of
people that are personal injury attorneys
it's a very different vibe than a uh
you know cash based physical therapist
that heavily lean into like performance
and movement and niches that are helping
people you know stay active and and get
back to running or whatever you know
things like that so um you know you
have a very very active a very uh
engaged group of people but more than
anything i don't know when you're a
business owner i think it's a struggle to
find people that
understand the shit you have to deal with
but also can celebrate your wins and when
you get around people like that it's it's
almost like i like to think of it
as like recharging your battery so your
entrepreneurial battery gets drained with
all the work you have to do and
the problems you have to solve and that
doesn't ever go away but twice a year
people get to come you know into a
space and that battery gets filled back up
with cool conversations with cool people
that they meet all across the country and
then all of a sudden you have this
network of people where you can pretty
much drop into any city in the country
You know,
hit up one of the people that we
that we work with and have a great,
you know, dinner conversation with them.
Go check out their clinic.
Just expand your network.
So it's it's fun.
It's fun.
And some people, you know, Megan,
she loves he's very extroverted.
She loves being around other people.
Some people maybe are a little more
introverted, but but either way,
it's such a welcoming group.
It's not it's not stress.
It's not stressful networking.
Like it doesn't even feel like you don't
know these people because we have so much.
Yeah.
Megan, so people don't know, right?
If people don't know Megan,
and I'll get her on the show eventually,
she always says yes.
But because we're so close,
I don't hammer her on like coming on
as a guest.
Megan's very skeptical, right?
in a good way.
Like, if you say something,
she's the first, like, her extraversion.
Because some people might come across,
like, why she's so, like,
why she's so pushy.
Megan's trying to get to the root.
Megan's like, if this is so great,
she's like, why?
And people are like,
what do you mean why?
She said it was great.
She's like, great, why?
Why is it great?
Tell me why it's great.
She was, I wouldn't say she was anti,
like, APTA, but once she went,
once one of our friends,
once Sky Donovan sort of twisted her arm
a little bit and she got there,
Megan was
Here's the best way to say Megan.
Megan's all in or Megan's all out.
And when you say this is great,
she's like, why?
Because she's like, maybe I jump in,
but I don't jump in a little bit.
I'm in or I'm out.
You can't get half soaking wet.
You're either soaking wet or you ain't.
So for her...
She is extroverted,
but I think once she gets in the
room,
she's really skeptical in a good way.
And once she understands the physics of a
room, she navigates a room really well.
Now,
I like to say Megan's the sneakiest Trojan
horse of a PT.
out there that i've seen because she
doesn't have a pt clinic and i'm using
air quotes she has mind the mat pilates
in alexandria virginia and i don't i think
that's like it's in like one of the
top three most expensive zip codes in the
country it's like dc area new york la
san francisco whatever it's not easy it's
not easy to run a business it's definitely
not easy there because the prices are
crazy and people are very picky
And she on the front door,
it says nothing about PT on her website.
You really,
I think you have to really look to
find PT, but she's practicing.
I want to be very clear.
She's practicing physical therapy in group
settings every single day.
as a PT using all of her PT
skills and confuses the average person.
They're like, she's not a PT.
And Megan just sits there and goes,
I know what I am and I'm killing
it.
Not even just business wise, which she is,
but she's also killing it because she's
doing exactly what she wants to do for
the people.
I mean,
she's got three locations in that area.
Wow, man.
Yeah.
I,
we were just there recently doing a
content trip and had a chance to follow
her for the day.
And I did her class and it was
freaking hard, man.
It was really hard.
It's super hard, but it's also, you know,
she's talking about like abduction and
extra rotation of the hip and people know
degrees of freedom you're supposed to have
and stuff.
And, and so I think that,
I don't know, physical therapy.
I love what she's doing with it because
she's applying the skillset that we learn
in a slightly different way and really
helping people, you know, I mean, they,
they love it.
It's, it's, it's obvious that they,
they love it, but what,
what she's done a really good job with.
And I think this is something that we
don't lean into as much as a profession
is she's really created this unique
culture and community around business.
Um, you know, and too often,
and in my experience,
like in the military and even working in
like high volume in network clinics, um,
you know, you're,
you're discharging people so fast, right?
Like you don't,
they're in and they get discharged when
their insurance runs out for the most
part.
And you have patients that will come back
and we build a lot of rapport with
people,
but the sense of community that you can
build in a place like that,
or even like some of the clinics that
we work with,
or even the one that I'm still a
partner in,
the ability to work with people long-term
creates this,
this community of people that,
that are like-minded,
that trust you as a resource for health
and wellness.
And that's a really unique advantage.
And honestly,
it's probably my favorite part of the
whole business model.
So I just think that's something that
she's done a fantastic job with.
And everybody who has a business that's in
the PT space could really,
really learn a lot from like,
how do you actually manage, cultivate,
and really build a healthy community of
people that are clients of yours to turn
into,
then friends with everybody else that you
work with.
and raving fans i mean she's got a
waiting list and i know clinics out there
do well and have a waiting list but
her classes have personality people go to
this instructor on this day and she by
the way teaches her own instructor so you
come in a lot of times as a
client next thing you know three years
later you're like i want to be an
instructor and she's like right this way
so she understands who's who in the zoo
like who's who in the neighborhood um
So, I mean,
if you're ever in the D.C.
area,
go take one of her classes if you
can.
Good luck.
It's called Mind the Mat.
Good luck trying to get in because, again,
as soon as the spot opens up,
there's someone else in an app.
I'm already in.
She's doing it sneaky in public.
Let's talk about the thing that you did
with her.
Um, you've been doing,
and the thing that you're also doing,
which I think is so simple and basic,
but so brilliant.
Cause that's where the brilliance really
is.
It's a circle.
Um, you're essentially,
let me describe it and you correct me
if I'm wrong, where I, where I'm close.
Um, it's like MTV cribs meets.
a PT clinic,
like with the people that you work with,
the people that you describe,
where you're like,
I'm going to drop by and we just
want to see you.
And then we're just going to chop it.
We're just going to talk.
And like,
at no point are you sitting down and
looking into a camera.
It's like a camera is just following Danny
around.
And Danny's like, what's up, dude?
And then the clinician is just hanging
out.
And it's the most approachable,
digestible content.
If you're the person who wants to do
it in six years,
this is the stuff you should be looking
at.
How close to that?
I've wanted to document our profession as
far as cash-based physical therapy clinics
go for a long time.
The challenge is it's time intensive and
it's resource intensive with videographers
and editing and all that stuff, right?
So,
but we got to a certain size with
our business where we felt that this was
a project worth doing and had no idea
if this would actually benefit our
business in the least.
And I actually didn't really care because
To me, this isn't a cash grab, dude.
This is my profession.
This is just something that I'm very
interested in.
I would like to see it improve and
continue to be around and evolve.
I think one thing that's really
interesting right now that's happening is
you see this big move of people that
are moving towards these very small
niche-based specific cash clinics that
have the capacity to really grow.
So what we wanted to do was show
clients that we were working with,
alumni of people that we've worked with
that they have clinics at different stages
of like you're in a subloosed office in
a gym.
Let's talk about what you're dealing with.
You have three locations and you're making
a couple million dollars a year in top
line revenue.
Let's talk about these things.
And we went in there sort of running
gun style with videographers to just have
a conversation.
And we we've done.
I think we've done maybe fifty or so
of those.
And recently with Megan,
we did something just slightly different.
So we took some of our of our
clients and friends who just have really
built some really impressive businesses
and have some amazing spaces and cultures.
And we spent an entire day with them.
And then we pulled those together in a
far more sort of like story framework.
And Megan's is the first one has come
out and really be able to tell the
story of how they got where they're at.
through PT, you know,
school through their,
their upbringing through the business side
of things and,
and really like highlight just these
amazing people in the profession.
And that for us was like, yeah,
we did MTV kind of crib style,
but now we want to do like a
chef's table,
like style and see which one we like
and resonates the best.
Right.
And so like,
that's kind of what we're doing,
but partially for me,
it's a creative outlet.
I like this kind of stuff.
I enjoy getting out of my office and
going to clinics and,
and being able to see that.
talking to their patients, like, dude,
I have such a good time talking to
people's patients about, you know,
what are they doing?
Cause, cause we,
what we get is we get these really
high achievers.
Usually we get people that are like,
just awesome.
Like I was at a clinic in DC
and one of the,
one of the owners that we followed around,
her patient was coming in to run the
Marine.
He was right before the Marine Corps
marathon.
And he was just getting a little bit
of soft tissue work done.
And this guy was sixty years old and
he had set a goal to run the
Marine Corps Marathon for the second time.
He's only run it one time,
but he was thirty seven when he ran
it.
And his goal was to beat his time
when he was thirty seven.
He was sixty.
Like just think about that goal.
I know.
It's amazing.
And I was like,
this guy lit me up the rest of
the day.
I was like,
I want to be like this guy one
day.
I want to keep trying to test myself
and do things.
So I like that.
And I like to share that.
And I really,
really hope that the profession sees what
people are doing and sees that, oh,
they're like me.
I could do something similar.
I can be just like them because none
of us are any different than anybody else
in the profession at all.
But what you're doing again is so simple
and yet why it's brilliant is to their
defense,
kind of PTs can't wait to tell you
how great we are and how great we
can help you get.
And then I'll,
I just did it today on a call
with a very large PT association.
And I said,
how many people on this call are in
show business?
Cause the guy introduced me,
Jimmy was a radio guy and he's podcasting.
I said, anybody, is there any,
this is how I said it.
Is anybody else on this call show a
hands in show business like me?
And nobody raised their hand.
Like,
so you only tell is there was academics
and clinicians.
You only tell students how to do things.
You never show them.
Well, well,
so you only tell patients how to do
things.
You never showed them.
And by show them, I mean, demonstrate.
And I also mean by tell them,
if you keep doing this,
you will get that.
That's a story with them as the main
character.
And then I'm like, now,
if I ask that question,
I'm not going to put you on the
spot.
But if I ask that question again,
would you change your answer?
I just see people go, mm hmm.
Right.
There's no such thing as tell business.
It's not a thing.
We're in show business.
That does not mean you need to shoot
many documentaries like Danny.
It means that if you can find a
way that you're comfortable
consuming or sharing some sort of medium
because people say media i'm like it just
means word picture sounds you know videos
just a medium how you do it showing
kills it beats telling a hundred times out
of a hundred it just does it just
does
Yeah, it's cool.
And it's also a unique way.
I wish, I don't know, in some ways,
I wish somebody would have done that.
Like,
or I wish I would have maybe done
this for my own clinic whenever we were
first getting started.
Because I mean, imagine, dude,
like there's people that will go in and
they have,
a table in the corner of a gym,
right?
And we're talking to them about where
they're at and where they want to be
in five years.
And it's like a time capsule to where
they get a chance to see that and
see where they were at,
what they were thinking,
what their space looked like.
What their problems were.
Exactly.
Everything.
And then they get a chance to look
back on that and really just appreciate
the growth that they're inevitably going
to have.
And not only that, but it also is,
we felt like it would be a really
cool asset for people that we work with
to help in the hiring process,
attract people that would be the right fit
for them.
And that's actually been the thing that's
been the biggest help for is like,
we've had a number of people that have
literally hired folks just from watching
these clinic tours.
Yes.
So you already sort of said the answer,
but I would have asked,
or if we go back in time about
ninety seconds, I would say,
is creating content like this more of a
help to hire or get patients?
Oh, to hire.
Yeah.
Right.
Cause now you're,
instead of having to say,
and I hate these stupid things,
we believe in evidence-based prep.
We're hiring now.
We believe in like just all the mayonnaise
flavored ice cream that goes into job
postings.
It's so funny to watch truly creative,
passionate people write a post on Indeed
that comes out sounding like a photocopy
of a photocopy of a photocopy.
What are you doing?
Yeah.
But now you get to show them,
you don't have to tell them.
Well,
and I think the other thing too that
you get is what typically happens is
somebody will watch one of those and then
they'll independently reach out to the
owner just to see if they're hiring.
They'll go to their site and see if
they have a hiring page.
And that's what we've noticed more than
anything.
And I think what happens is,
And we're pretty authentic about it.
We're following you around,
asking you questions,
whether it's business, clinical, whatever.
There's zero script for it at all.
And it just depends what we get into.
But it gets to highlight sort of them
and their journey and what's important to
them and their personality, too.
So you end up just sort of culturally
having people that are a fit reach out
to you.
And that's probably the biggest thing.
hurdle with,
with hiring folks is making sure that
you're like hiring people that are going
to be a culture fit and have the
same values that you have.
And if they watch you talk about your
space and your journey as a business
owner, uh, and they like it,
they obviously like,
so whatever you're saying.
So now all of a sudden they've checked
the culture box, which is, which is huge.
Yeah.
They get to come one step closer, right?
I'd say the same for patients too.
You can, you can,
you could probably have one shoot day, uh,
not really have to script a whole lot.
Cause I mean, I don't work.
I was in radio, man.
We didn't do script.
We did.
What's the goal.
What am I doing with this?
What's the talk between these two songs?
What am I doing?
Okay.
Got it.
I'll figure out how to do it.
Turn the microphone on.
Like ironically,
I guess you gotta be comfortable with
that.
Once you are, it's,
I think it's simpler to get the realness
out when you're like,
I just need you to be you.
I'm going to make it easy to be
you.
Right.
I think that's like,
that's why it's called a host,
a podcast host and a guest.
I'm my goal as a host is to
make you welcome into my, like,
I want to make you feel welcome at
home.
And then what happens?
You become the most you,
but if it's awkward,
it's forced and you know when it's
awkward,
you can spot it from a mile away.
But what you do is like I say,
running gun.
Well, you know,
it's funny when you look back at these
things because, um,
I don't think I could have done this
five years ago even.
And a lot of it just comes down
to,
even if you think about your career arc,
it's similar, right?
Because I think I'm between the Doc and
Jock podcast and the Peach the
Entrepreneur podcast,
I'm well over a thousand podcasts
completed, right?
Think about how many patients we've talked
to.
I mean,
I had a decade of patient care where
I'm just having conversations with people
constantly.
I understand the profession in terms of
like,
if somebody wants to talk to me about
squat mechanics or they want to talk to
me about marketing funnels for clinics
like we can talk about any of that
and i don't think i would have been
able to do these off-the-cuff sort of
approaches unless i had all these reps
from these other things and i had no
idea that we'd eventually do this or it
would lead to that um it's just it's
just skill stacking essentially and uh and
it just depends on what you're interested
in and keep following that right so for
us what's been cool is like we can
we can do that and we can do
it pretty efficiently
And maybe there's plenty of things we
could do better.
There's no doubt about that.
But for us to be able to share
these things, these businesses,
these people and what's going on,
I just think from a professional
standpoint and even just having
conversations with the APTA recently,
it's obvious that we're going this
direction where
We're going to be more entrepreneurial as
a profession.
We have to be.
And right now we're not.
Yeah, I mean, it is.
And it's the ironic thing too,
that they said,
I remember I had conversation with some of
the APTA about how funny would it be
if our profession drives more to the
cash-based route and then insurance
literally has to work with us more.
Because there's not enough of us taking
insurance.
And all of a sudden,
they reimburse us more.
Like, what a weird fucking one-eighty.
I didn't even think that was a
possibility.
But it's going that direction.
So for us,
we just want to be a part of
that and highlight it and help grow the
profession in a way that I think is
very sustainable.
And obviously,
insurance is not changing anytime soon.
So it's good for us on the economic
side as far as being able to provide
for our families and create time freedom.
But more than anything,
it allows us to stay in the profession
and really enjoy the career that we signed
up for.
I agree.
Yeah, I agree.
What's the future look like?
I mean, you sort of gave a snapshot.
And quick, before I forget,
where should someone go if they're like,
I want to do this?
Where do I get more of this guy?
Tell them the exact one spot.
You can go to physicaltherapybiz.com and
you can learn a lot about what we're
doing.
You can go to YouTube if you want
to watch our clinic tours.
We put a bunch of actual video-based
podcasts out there.
The PT Biz channel on YouTube is a
pretty great spot if you want to learn
about this stuff.
I've watched every single one of these
clinic tours myself,
even though I was there.
I just am so fascinated with everybody's
origin stories.
It's fun.
When I sit down with creative calls or
whatever, if someone's like, hey, man,
you got to meet this guy.
I'm like, all right.
And then there's that pause when you're
like, hey, guy, I don't know.
And you're like, hey,
so where do we start?
My holstered response is...
Um, what's your,
what's your superhero origin story?
And of course it breaks the ice people.
Oh, I don't have one.
The really hump,
like the people with the cool stories
usually say, ah,
there's nothing special about me.
I'm like, that's when we got something.
And then they break into this crazy ass
story where like I did this thing and
I'm like, what?
That's so outside of my realm.
Like, this is so interesting.
But we all have an origin story and
every business is made by humans.
That business also has an origin story.
So you're simple.
Your stories are so, again, simple,
which is why they're brilliant.
It's the hero's journey.
It's obviously still working.
Otherwise,
you wouldn't be able to drop by the
clinic.
But and the fun part is where in
the hero's journey and when does that end?
It only ends when you want it to
end,
which is we close it or we sell
it or we're still going.
And that's the fun part.
They're all the same,
but they're all different.
Yeah, you know, and for sure.
And I think that the time,
it's like a time capsule in a lot
of ways too, which are, which are really,
you know, it's like, what if,
what if your grandfather,
you could watch videos of him, you know,
doing or whatever it is that he,
whatever he did at the early stages.
Oh, my God, I'd be all over that.
Yeah, but we can't.
But now we can,
and that next generation will be able to
do it.
Yeah, which is even crazier.
But you ask, okay, where is this going?
And I think about this a lot, actually,
just because –
I think what you're seeing with cash-based
clinics now, number one, you know,
so I wasn't the first person in the
world to start a cash-based clinic.
When I did it, it was twenty fourteen.
And but I only knew of one or
two in the city of Atlanta at the
time whenever I started mine.
So they were around probably a good solid
decade or more before that.
But they're very, very few.
And you had to.
know be incredibly niche specific and and
a lot of people didn't think you can
grow and pass yourself but the landscape
has changed quite a lot where people have
more skin in the game insurance has gotten
worse they're looking in a lot of ways
for proactive solutions which is really
interesting too i think people's views on
health care has changed i think some of
it is it's based on their age and
how they grew up and what they value
So I think people,
especially between sort of thirty and
sixty are very,
very much interested in investing in
themselves and viewing it as that.
That's a great spot for us to be.
So I think what you're going to see
is.
these type of businesses are going to
continue to grow and continue to become
more sophisticated and complex.
But on the backside of that, I see,
I see consolidation happening.
I see acquisitions of these businesses
happening.
I see regional clinics that are getting
like significant funding and backing and
really, you know,
going hard in the paint to try to
really grow and increase their footprint.
And probably, I mean,
I don't think we're far off from probably
a,
multiple hundred million dollar,
if not a billion dollar cash-based PT
clinic group that's gonna be built,
organized and sold very similar to what we
see in network space.
And in fact,
it's probably gonna be somewhat of a
mirror image of that.
So if you're listening to this and you're
thinking about starting a clinic,
I think now is actually a great time
to start that.
You're gonna have to compete no matter
what,
but it's not quite at a place where
it's that organized yet.
But if you do,
keep in mind that you really have to
understand how to be a good business
owner.
You can't just get by on being a
good clinician anymore.
You used to be able to do that.
You can't.
I mean,
you might be able to just have a
lifestyle business,
but even that you're going to struggle
with if you don't understand the basics of
business.
So if you want to go that route,
you really,
really have to learn how to be a
business owner.
You have to be a business owner first,
a clinician second.
Otherwise, you're going to get people...
that are not just from our profession,
but from other professions that are
business ninjas,
and they're going to come and eat our
lunch, right?
So like,
I don't want to see our profession just
get taken over by,
people that are not even involved in our
profession directly.
They just view it as a,
it's an opportunity to make a bunch of
money in a fragmented industry,
which has happened in basically every
single industry ever.
So just keeping in mind that like
self-defense for you is learning how to be
a business owner,
learning how to actually like understand
how to sell and market and systemize your
business and hire and create a culture
because there is a lot of
uh, unique advantage in being a, you know,
a local business.
People want to support those and they want
to get behind those,
but you've got to give them what they
need to and be like a repeatable service
and consistent.
Uh, we're going to play a game.
Danny, you're, you're ready for a game.
Yeah, sure.
this.
Rapid fire.
We're going to call a clinic on a
rapid fire.
I'm going to throw out an idea.
You just give me first thing that comes
to mind, man.
Don't overthink it.
Most overused marketing strategy in
physical therapy.
Oh man.
I would say, I think it's social media.
If I'm being honest with you,
I think that
people put a lot of time and effort
into social media and they get very little
out of it.
And it does fit in the ecosystem of
many other things.
But if people spent the same amount of
time that they did trying to curate
perfect posts that nobody ever looks at,
and they just spent that in their
community and really became an avid person
of being helpful and valuable to your
community,
they would get more patients from that.
Most underrated clinical skill.
Listening.
Yes.
So I was hope I was like communication
list, listening, communication,
same thing.
It's the email dude.
It's like,
I think what people fuck up is they,
they,
they do not listen to people enough in
an eval and they do not understand why
they're actually there.
And if you can clarify why they're there
and get them like,
and they're clear on like that as well,
the buying decision is very easy,
but it doesn't come without you having to
actively listen to them and ask them
questions and listen to their responses
and really piece it together.
And not assume whatever they're there.
Like, don't assume, man, that whole,
you know, ask you and me.
That's real.
One KPI,
only one that every clinic owner should
watch.
We could watch lots of things.
We got dashboards on dashboards on
dashboards on data.
But what's one KPI every clinic owner
should watch?
An important one.
I think the most important one is your
continuity percentage.
So what percentage of people are you
working with that come back and work with
you in an ongoing manner?
The clinics that we find that do the
best, they end up being fifty,
sixty plus percent of people on their
schedules that are coming back kind of
forever.
And they're they're turning into they're
doing a lot more proactive health,
wellness, maybe lifestyle based work,
longevity work.
um, performance depending on their niche,
things like that.
And they're not being reactive anymore.
So if you can get your,
your percentage of schedule saturation,
so let's say you have a hundred visits
in a month,
you're saying you're getting a sixty out
of a month,
fifty to sixty are people that are coming
back that have already worked with you and
their other half are roughly new people.
And here go back to a previous question.
Um,
those people are easier to market to
because you probably have their phone
number and their email address and they at
least trusted you once.
That's warm.
That's not cold.
Well, not only that, I mean,
so normally our profession is taught solve
the injury discharge because that's what
insurance tells you to do.
And we have never been taught how to
sell this.
I didn't learn it.
I was in the fucking military.
You think we were coming back to me?
So do performance work, maintenance?
No, come on, man.
So I didn't know the first thing about
this and I didn't even realize that it
was important until years into starting my
clinic.
But if you can learn this from the
get-go and you can understand that you're
solving a first problem with somebody,
but then you have the...
the luxury of asking them,
what do you want to do next?
Have you ever thought about what you want
to do?
Are there any physical goals?
Are there any things that you think that
maybe you couldn't get back to or you
could do that you've always wanted to?
And it can be very simple stuff.
But once you ask them that,
and that opens up the opportunity for them
to think about what they want to do
with their vehicle in life.
And if you're a fit to help them
do those things and stay ahead of these
injuries that pop up,
and obviously things still happen,
but be able to be proactive with people,
that is what people are looking for.
And that is where we miss out on
massive amounts of lifetime value.
And more than anything,
massive amounts of beneficial work with
people that is life changing for them.
Yeah.
you mentioned one part of one of the
reasons maybe you wrote the book or wrote
the second one was like,
if I could help people look around
corners, like that's a really,
I like that.
It's like a concrete thing you can
picture.
So if you had to do it all
over again,
what's a thing you might've done
differently if you could have looked
around a corner?
I mean, take this as you want,
because obviously we work with people to
help them with their business side,
but I would've got somebody to help me
much earlier.
I mean, the reality is,
I think some people I say this,
but I probably still wouldn't have done it
because my ego wouldn't have let me.
And I just didn't want I didn't want
I didn't want anybody to have any like
say over.
Oh, Danny,
because of this is why he was successful.
Right.
It was because I just want to figure
it all out by myself.
As painful as that was,
as expensive of lessons I had to learn,
especially when we scale to our first
clinic.
i mean i did everything wrong i mean
we we we went from a hundred thousand
dollars in our operating account to like
five grand you know it could even make
payroll and i i just up all these
things in the build out process i i
prepaid all this stuff i got delayed
months i'd already hired staff like i we
literally almost ruined our business in
the process of growing because we had
figured some things out but then it was
almost like we created a car we didn't
know how to drive
And we're about to crash and burn.
So for me,
what I would have done is I would
have gotten help from people that have
already done what I'm trying to do.
And I'm so fast to do that now,
by the way.
If there's anything that I can't figure
out,
I go and figure out who I can
just hire to teach me this thing or
what groups already figured this out or
whatever program that I sign up for.
I do this every single year because it's
almost like I'm trying to make up for
the stupid shit I did early on.
So I would do that because that's the
easiest thing to do.
I don't know an easier path to get
where you want to go than just find
somebody who's already done it.
Smart.
When you put it like that, Danny,
it makes complete sense.
So stop making so much sense.
Last thing, this is just personal.
What's your favorite way to reset when
you're burned out?
Doing whatever you do.
You mentioned battery drained, right?
Getting together with people helps charge
it.
But what's your favorite way of resetting,
recharging when you get that?
Man,
I just like to spend time with my
family, dude.
It's like zero work.
Go play basketball.
Go through the Frisbee around.
Get outside with our dogs.
Go and enjoy Atlanta.
We live in a beautiful city.
It's very easy to bike around here.
We live close to where the Beltline is
here,
which helps us get kind of all over
the city where we want to go.
I like to get up to the mountains.
I like to go trout fishing up there.
You know,
it's it's just being outside and being
around my family is like the number one
way.
It doesn't have to be anything crazy.
You know, I'm not doing like these,
I don't know,
silent retreats for a week to try to
find out who I am as a person.
Like,
I just want to chill with my kids
and my wife and not have to worry
about, you know.
whatever business stuff is going on,
but ironically I work with my wife.
So even when we're around each other,
there still tends to be business
conversations, but I just,
I purely just enjoy, uh,
being with my family and,
and it's not easy.
It's not hard for me to shut down
anymore because it's,
that's something I've had to work really
hard at doing.
Um, you know,
so proximity to that is very easy.
I, as soon as, um, we're done here,
I'm probably going to go shoot hoops with
my son in the driveway and, and, and,
uh,
and enjoy the nice sun that's out today
here.
All right.
Last thing we do, you know,
this is the parting shot.
This is the Parting Shot.
One last mic drop moment.
No pressure.
Just your legacy on the line.
Last thing we do is just a mic
drop.
What's one thing or idea you could
reiterate?
An idea you already shared or come up
with something new?
What's your parting shot for today?
I mean,
I think the biggest thing for people that
are listening to anything like this is
just figuring out, you know,
these three paths that I talked about.
I see so many people that they just
it's almost like they're they're like in
pain.
They're trying to figure out what to do
with their life.
And I've been there, too.
And it's hard because you don't want to
make the wrong decision.
So I would reiterate the fact that you
need to take some time to really think
through what you want to do.
And once you feel somewhat confident about
the right direction,
then just take action on that.
But I think for a lot of people,
they don't take action because
They never take the time to actually
really think about what they want.
You know, like, like not, not even,
not necessarily even what they'll do with
their career.
What life are they trying to live?
Like what's a perfect week, month, year?
Like what's it, what, what is,
what is a perfect life look like to
you?
And then start to reverse engineer what
that looks like and what gets you there.
That's it.
Yeah.
And, and for most people,
and this is actually something that we get
to experience as PTs.
And we've worked with like,
I've worked with young kids up to people
that are, you know, incredibly old.
And what I always love doing,
when anytime I have like older patients,
I love asking them about their life.
And I'll ask them if they regret things.
Like it's, dude,
the amount of people that I've had cry
in my office when I ask this shit.
And again,
what you hear over and over and over
again is people regret not just kind of
like doing the shit that they wanted to
do.
They just end up doing stuff for other
people.
And they,
then they were kind of stuck and they're
stuck in a life that isn't necessarily
what they wanted.
So not to say whatever, it's,
it's not the worst thing in the world.
There's plenty of terrible things that
happened that,
that we're fortunate to be in the U
S and not necessarily have to deal with
lots of things that,
that we take for granted.
But damn, man,
you have an opportunity to just like do
what you feel compelled to do, do it.
You know,
we just have to come to the conclusion
of what it is first.
So you don't end up making all the
wrong choices and end up like climbing the
wrong mountain when you should have been
doing this other thing.
Yeah.
All right.
We'll see in Charleston in March saying
that.
So it's on this, this is timestamped.
You're coming.
It's a beautiful spot.
We're going to be a wild.
I mean,
you don't ever have to twist my arm
to go to Charleston ever.
Are we going to go to King street?
At least some,
one of the nights or whatever.
How's that work?
No, I'm not.
Uh, you can,
but like where we're staying is at the
beach.
It's not that close to where you're at,
but you, you could totally,
if I was you,
I would just stay for the weekend.
We have a lot of people that'll stay
for the weekend and, um, you know,
and go, go check out King street.
I actually love, I'll give you,
I'll give you the low down of where
I like to go in Charleston.
It's not King street.
Cause King street is like saying you're
going to go to like, you know, uh,
whatever yeah whatever you know some
touristy spot in new york i want the
inside track then man don't don't tell
everybody because i don't want it to get
out but just whisper it to me when
we get off
Yeah, okay, I'll tell you.
I'll leave it at that.
But it is the beach area,
and it's not necessarily the city.
The city is pretty amazing.
Actually,
if you want to do something cool in
Charleston,
my favorite thing to do in the city,
when it gets dark,
go walk around the sort of like battery
area where it's all these old homes.
And it's a lot of lanterns still.
So it's like it has this really like
unique vibe.
creepy vibe.
Yeah.
And it's, and it's all like this,
these gas lanterns.
So it's not as much sort of like,
it's not as bright and it's a really,
really fun place to go just to stroll
around.
Love it.
Danny, appreciate the time, man.
Thanks as always.
See you soon.
Thanks for having me on.
That's it for this one,
but we're just getting warmed up.
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And legally, none of this was advice.
It's for entertainment purposes only.
Bullshit!
See, Keith?
We read the script.
Happy now?