You're listening to the P.T.
Pinecast,
where smart people in healthcare come to
make noise.
Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.
You're listening to the P.T.
Pinecast,
where smart people in healthcare come to
make noise.
Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.
I am the host, Drew McKay,
and I had it on loop.
So I played the intro twice,
but that's twice as good, Andrea.
We know in marketing, once is awesome.
Two times, twice is awesome.
And you were making sure everyone was
awake.
It's Monday morning.
Yeah.
I'm going to do the live reads first.
We have sponsors, Andrea.
This episode is brought to you by Get
the Message Out.
That's my company.
I'm sponsoring my own show.
Very meta.
Helping healthcare providers craft
unforgettable stories that actually
connect because marketing isn't just about
more content.
It's about content that matters.
We'll get a live read for you.
We'll do that eventually.
Maybe we'll workshop it.
Also want to thank Brooks Institute of
Higher Learning, building strong,
adaptive leaders in physical therapy with
mentorship, real-world training,
and business skills that make an impact
from day one.
They've got residencies and fellowships
down there in Jacksonville, Florida.
Brooksihl.org.
That's Brooksihl.org.
One more time,
because three times is when you're
supposed to read the website in an ad.
That's when people stick.
Brooksihl.org.
Andrea, welcome to your show.
We're going to do a show together.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me.
We have to give a good intro.
Now, we call this in radio,
this is the re-rack.
This is the context,
because someone's been watching for a
minute and they've heard me screw up the
intro twice and read sponsors.
Not a whole lot of value there yet.
But today,
the co-host has scaled urgent cares across
the Northeast,
built marketing systems from stealth to
series A,
and rebuilt the HSA sales story at
Fidelity.
She doesn't believe in random acts of
marketing.
Good.
She believes strategy that compounds.
I like that.
We'll figure out what that means.
Today,
we're talking about the difference between
what you see in your sales process and
what your customers actually experience.
Spoiler,
they're probably not the same thing.
It's a gap most clinic owners,
and I would venture to say if we
zoomed out, business owners,
don't even realize that they have.
Marketing strategist and growth operator,
welcome to the show, Andrea Tager Chaney.
Do you hyphenate in real life?
I don't legally.
My last name is Chaney,
but I've kept the professional maiden name
for a while now.
And the reason I ask, I'm like,
as I was writing the intro,
I was like,
I've known her for two years.
I'm like,
I don't know what last name to use.
My legal last name is Chaney.
Okay.
So how was the intro?
Was it accurate?
Did I leave anything major out?
No, it was great.
Please like follow me around and tell
people that that is my intro.
Thank you so much.
All right.
So you posted recently,
and I've literally commented on LinkedIn.
You should follow Andrea on LinkedIn for a
lot of these things we're going to talk
about,
about founders mistaking their sales
process for customer journey.
And we'll define terms in your own words
first.
But why does that disconnect matter so
much in healthcare marketing?
So let's start with what is a sales
process?
It doesn't have to be official funk and
waggon.
Yeah.
Doesn't need to be the dictionary
definition.
No one has encyclopedias anymore.
What is a sales process for the amateur?
And what is a customer journey for the
amateur?
Then we'll get into why they matter.
Definitely.
So on the healthcare side,
I've been on B to B,
I've been on B to C, we'll talk,
we will sort of talk generally speaking.
So sales process is internal process,
your customers or prospects never know
what your sales,
they shouldn't know what your sales
process is.
And that's internally what you are doing
to, you know,
sort of from the point of marketing,
excuse me,
is doing their thing to get some attention
to maybe to get some leads in the
door.
And then sales process goes, you know,
what do we do from here?
And I think internally,
we sort of talk about the sales process
and the marketing process as a funnel.
I do not talk about it as a
funnel because people operate in a funnel.
So, you know,
if you hear like the classic marketer or
the salesperson, like top of funnel,
middle funnel, bottom of funnel,
we can talk about that internally.
All we want to sort of identify the
type of content we're sharing,
when we're sharing it,
where we're sharing it.
But that is an internal process.
And I think sometimes what happens is
people get caught up with that process and
apply it externally.
A customer journey.
is completely external.
And so what you're doing with a customer
journey,
whether it's B to C B to B
and Jimmy, you know, this, um,
is you are getting into the mind and
understanding the behavior of your
customers or your prospective customers.
So, um,
What are their needs?
What are their pain points?
How are they living their lives?
Where are they?
You know,
it feels like a million years ago,
HubSpot came up with this concept of
inbound marketing.
And you probably saw this recently on
LinkedIn is I was all in on inbound
marketing because it's human marketing.
It's essentially meeting people where they
are, right?
And like getting in front of them when
they need you.
So you are...
needing to understand where people are,
what their problem is and what they need.
And then you're, you're solving for that.
So your sales process goes, oh,
they have a need and let's give them
this piece of content and then let's call
them this many times.
And then let's do this prescriptive thing.
Humans are very messy that, you know,
it's sort of marketing is behavior, right?
It's psychology.
And so that's what we're thinking about
when we think about the customer journey.
All right,
so now that we know what sales process
and customer journey are, internal,
external, what you want,
they don't care because they're doing,
I always say like on calls,
most of our phone calls should be
podcasts.
That's when I was like,
we need to have at least an episode.
I always say humans are human-y.
And every time you think that your message
exists in a site,
like I read people's everythings.
I talk a lot,
but I read a lot as I think
a lot of good marketers do.
And you read,
I read a lot of things and say,
dude,
you wrote that thinking that the person
would be sat down in a room like
they have at a police station where it's
just a mirror and one table.
And then we will now show you our
message.
And that ain't how anybody,
that's how your CEO absorbs your new
commercial rollout.
No one else is doing that.
So why does that disconnect matter so
much?
We'll stay in sort of our world in
healthcare marketing.
Why does that disconnect happen?
Why does it matter so much?
And then we'll get to what the hell
we do about it.
Well, it happens, I think,
because internally,
we are in this little vacuum, right?
Internally, we're going,
we have our product.
Let's figure out how to get in front
of people who need our product, right?
And so we design these very beautiful
strategies.
And these are, like I said,
our sales process.
And we're going,
when someone first realizes they have a
problem, what content should we give them?
And I'm not saying that's wrong.
What I'm saying is not everyone follows
this perfect flow, right?
And at the same time,
so I've worked in healthcare organizations
where the sales cycle is two years.
And so you are essentially nurturing or
courting someone for two years and not all
organizations are created equally.
So within those two years,
you're not treating everyone the same.
And maybe it's six months for some.
on the b to c side if we're
talking about pt i've been in retail
health you know i've been in b to
c organizations um it may be immediately i
i know i have a need i need
to go find a solution it may be
my doctor tells me i have a problem
and then i'm like
where do i turn and maybe i'm asking
friends maybe i'm posting on facebook
maybe i'm in my next door app like
asking my neighbors right so my journey
may look very different so i think you
know to answer your question around like
why does this happen i think internally
we're very much thinking about our product
and how to push it out there and
i think externally people we're not on
people's radar right like brand awareness
is very important and this is why it's
important but we don't know exactly when
someone is going to need us we don't
know the trigger like humans are behaving
as humans sort of as you said humans
are
That's a better term.
We can put humans or human-y on a
t-shirt and sell it at a marketing
convention.
You are right.
Human behavior does not directly parallel
our sales process.
It's not very t-shirt friendly.
That's why you're the wow, right?
Theoretical name for the show is Wow and
How.
If there were a Venn diagram...
Andrea and I are both probably marketers,
right?
And I think sixty percent of what we
would do if given the same problem would
be similar.
Probably not the same, but similar.
And then forty percent will be different.
I think that's a good thing.
I think if you hire ten contractors to
redo your bathroom,
you will get sixty percent of run the
pipes, do the electrical,
do it in this order.
But then you would also get vision,
vision, vision.
I'm probably a little more off the wall.
If you've listened to this podcast,
I'm like, I've always said,
I work really well with how people,
Andrea is a how person,
like she's going to have vision and
creativity,
but then she's going to look like, Jimmy,
I need you to,
I need you to sit it down,
explain how we do half of the stuff
that you just said to which Jimmy would
reply.
I don't remember half the stuff.
I don't remember.
So we're at the end of the show.
I'm glad we're recording it,
but I think that's what people need to
understand is marketing is super simple.
It's just not easy.
Yes, exactly.
Super simple, just not easy.
And I think, you know,
and we'll get to this as sort of
the ideal is marrying, right,
like your internal process with your
external process.
And there are some ways to do that.
How do you explain,
because you just brought up,
in my opinion, a disconnect.
You said, I think,
because I'm good at a hundred miles an
hour.
You said from B to B,
you might be courting another business.
So let's say you sell software as a
service.
This would be an easy play, an EMR.
Let's say you sell an EMR and you
want clinics.
So that is business to business.
You just said, was I right?
That you might be having to court that
organization you're trying to sell to for
two years.
But Andrea, how can that be right?
Because a lot of sales cycles or sales
quotas are ninety days.
I'm not a mathematician,
but ninety days and two years,
those numbers feel vastly different.
Let's also look at marketing leadership
turnover being a year or eighteen months.
You know,
the numbers add up or they don't,
I guess.
So, no, that's just it.
I've sold into health plans, carriers.
I've sold into large self-insured
employers.
I've sold into health systems, you know,
hospitals.
It's a long process.
process, right?
And you're right.
So sales quotas are shorter.
How did you do this quarter?
How are our numbers this quarter?
And I think- You might have done great.
You're on the third date,
and we know what happens on the third
date.
Knowing that an average organization might
take two years to make decisions before
the stars align,
it feels like there's a disconnect in
communications sometimes.
I don't like to point fingers,
but I do like to point fingers.
Somebody has to own this,
or a bunch of us have to own
this,
because you can't eat the food that you
planted
Yesterday or two months ago or ninety days
ago,
if it's a if it's a quarterly quota
that math don't math.
But why are we so resistant to
understanding that?
We're so resistant because two years feels
like a long time, and it is.
I think the organizations that I've worked
with,
the smart organizations that get it right,
are looking at what we have done from
two years to close, right?
And we can look at quarterly quotas,
but we're looking at that based on what
we did eighteen months or two years ago.
And so what I look at when I'm
working with organizations that have a two
year sales cycle,
I'm looking at engagement.
Right.
We have lag and lead indicators.
And I you know,
we get into all these terms and marketing
and some are good and some are.
But we're looking at are these prospects
engaging now?
Do we you know,
can we consider them a lead?
Right.
We're not.
If the sales cycle is two years,
we can't consider we can't even assume
that they're going to be closed in any.
You know,
so I think the smart organizations are
looking at the right metrics and are
looking at the right actions.
And we shouldn't be holding people to
quarterly quotas for leads that just
entered the pipeline a short time ago.
God,
if I never hear the term pipeline again.
Yeah.
It was so nauseating.
Again, my background was broadcasting.
So I had two different,
I was B to C and I was
B to B. And again,
for the non-marketing people who are
trying to catch up, these should be,
if we're ever using terms that sound too
confusing, hold us accountable to that,
either live or recorded, right?
So business to business or business to
consumer.
So I think radio is a great example
because people can sort of
visualize it.
I had to make the radio station.
I ran cool,
whatever that meant to the listener.
My product was free.
Like I just gave it away and hope
people stuck around.
And we had a few metrics.
We measured, um, QM,
total number of people listening how many
people are in your bar right bunch of
people time spent listening how long are
those people in your bar because the
longer quote the better but understanding
that different formats will play for those
things top forty radio is gonna play the
top forty songs and then when they get
to the fortieth song they play the first
song again so they understand that they're
they want lots of people in their bar
for not a lot amount of time exactly
Where I was was rock.
I wanted as many people as possible,
but I knew I didn't have top forties
hip beats that were new every ten minutes,
right?
So I wanted to put heavy towards time
spent listening.
Now, you might be thinking, like,
how is radio parallel?
It does because you're just understanding
what the audience is and what your goal
is and how to match your goal to
your audience's goal.
Now, I also did B to B.
I didn't sell anything to the person
listening.
I shouldn't say I didn't charge them
anything.
That's where we get a little bit of
a twist.
Music was not my product in radio.
The audience who I got to listen was
my product because then I could take, hey,
we have X number of people listening for
this many hours every week.
I could then turn to a car dealership
or a restaurant chain or an insurance
company locally and say,
you want these people's attention for what
we know.
These are their demographics.
Age, sex, buying cabinets,
amount of money, where they live,
because radio was,
it used to be this thing where you
had to be time and space listening at
that time in a radius of the radio
station.
And psychographic,
they think this is cool, right?
They're into this.
So if you sell pickup trucks in Northeast
Pennsylvania,
my radio station had a bunch of dudes.
You'd want to be on my radio station.
And I think your post,
which I will bring up on the screen
second,
highlighted you needed to do what that
said.
Put yourself in that audience.
And I think a lot of people don't
do that,
where I think either you said or someone
said the CEO will chime in.
Well, I'm our ideal customer.
And everybody's like, you are not.
You are not.
And your, you know,
your seventeen year old nephew who told us
to be on, you know,
TikTok or something isn't.
And it's funny because that's the you can
read across LinkedIn, right?
Marketers are always like, oh,
the seventeen year old nephew said to be
on TikTok.
And it's like, well,
is that our prospect for our SaaS product
or whatever the product is, right?
Or service.
Maybe, but not just because they said it.
Like, hold on, right?
So let's bring up the post that sort
of started it all, right?
We don't need a customer journey.
This is a quote that you're saying.
We don't need a customer journey, man.
We know how our customers buy.
You said you've heard this a time or
two.
Then you ask, walk me through it.
And they describe their sales process,
what we just talked about.
Well,
they usually find us through a referral or
Google and they book a call.
We do a demo, send a proposal,
follow up, close.
That's not what the customer journey is.
Because the customer was doing getting the
kids to school and then watching Netflix
and going to work for eight hours.
So it's saying,
here's what you're missing.
Before they found you, questions to ask.
How long were they dealing with the
problem before they decided to solve it?
What actually triggered them to start
looking?
Now, where did they go first?
I mean,
the answer was Google for the last decade
or two.
And now it's are we I mean,
I just I just put a pork butt
in the in the crock pot through chat
GPT.
Right.
Because I didn't want to if I searched
a how to cook a pork butt,
what I would have gotten was some vloggers
life story and then a recipe at the
bottom of a blog for SEO optimization.
So now are we you know,
is it is it AI optimization and where
they search for your category,
their problem?
How did they get there?
You're not thinking about those things.
And now it's like Jimmy and Andrea aren't
talking about marketing.
You're talking about getting,
for healthcare providers,
getting the right people in your clinic at
the right time.
You go deep.
They're evaluating.
While they're evaluating you,
who else is chiming in?
Who's the decision maker?
What objections are they hearing?
What criteria are they using?
You went really deep in this post,
and I'll share it in the show notes.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, the while you're,
you know,
while they're evaluating or what happened
before, I mean, there's so many things.
And right as marketers,
there are things that we just don't know
what we don't know.
And we certainly can't measure it.
But we do know that there are things
happening behind the scenes.
Right.
And so we can't just assume that when
someone
sees our LinkedIn post or our Facebook
post or something like that,
they clicked and that's how they found us
or when they Googled us or whatever it
may be.
You know,
a good example is when I was in
the retail health space.
So I worked for an organization that was
in Connecticut, Westchester, New York,
and then moved into the Boston area.
It was an urgent care.
um and so we uh you know it
was an amazing organization and we had
really smart marketing but i had sort of
an aha moment one day when i was
looking at our google ads um data and
you know i sort of said you know
people aren't aren't waking up and then
googling us right like this is the mom
one you know we had we had personas
and one of our main personas was the
busy mom who has sick kids
The mom in the middle of the night
is is doing research to understand why her
child just woke up with a fever.
Right.
So whether that's Google or on some forum
or whatever it is, ideally, you know,
reaching out to their their doctor or
nurse line or something.
But, you know,
things are happening and we don't know
that they're happening.
And so I think we couldn't have
necessarily accounted for that in a
beautifully designed customer journey.
But it certainly was like an aha moment
for me.
Reddit wasn't a place to be if you
were in marketing five, I mean,
three years ago.
And now people are like,
because Reddit is the town square now,
because maybe we're seeing shifts, right?
Twitter sort of lost a lot of users
and people had to go to something to
discuss and find things out and go deeper.
When I'm analyzing, there's this new,
I think it's a year old and it's
like a coffee table.
It's almost like a big iPad and it'll
play board games on it.
So it's like a mashup of old and
new.
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah, I think so.
Put pieces on it.
It'll play like Scrabble, whatever.
And I'm like, oh, this is cool.
I want to get this right.
And then I'm like, hang on a second.
I've had that hot stove touch burned
before.
You bought the thousand dollar thing
thinking it's going to feel like ten
thousand dollars.
And then you're like, I'm like, well,
let's go to Reddit and see who's trashing
it or not trashing it.
And that's where people are.
Wait,
that's the tipping point of decisions.
You have to understand that at least that
doesn't have to just be run to Reddit.
Where are people?
When are people?
How are people making these decisions?
Are you there or not?
You're exactly right.
And Reddit is a great example.
I mean,
that has become a significant part of a
lot of organizations' social strategy.
B to B and B to C.
B to B decision makers are looking on
Reddit.
You know, you think of... Wait, wait,
wait.
Business to business is doing that too?
They are.
Really?
Yeah.
So B to B and B to C.
And because, you know,
and I don't know the numbers off the
top of my head,
like the traffic and the engagement within
Reddit.
But I mean,
there are organizations that dedicate.
There are people who are full time
moderating conversations on Reddit about
their brand.
It's wild.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
If I'm a CEO,
Andrea is my VP of marketing.
Andrea,
we're going to pay some millennials or
younger.
I don't even know what's after
millennials.
We're going to pay some kid to sit
at home and just like essentially troll
Reddit.
And Andrew's going to go, yep.
And we want a really good one because
they know what they're looking,
essentially looking for needles in a giant
digital haystack.
But what is one of those,
some of that insight worth on a monthly
basis?
And what is beginning or jumping in on
a conversation worth?
It could be a lot.
I mean,
it's the same person that's monitoring and
moderating as in Facebook groups who are
on the Nextdoor app,
who are looking at Yelp,
who are looking at Google reviews.
I mean, this is all online reputation.
And I say this to every person.
client that i work with is you know
that's your online reputation and people
are getting the word out there positive
negative you know you need to be in
the conversation or if they're just asking
a question you want to be the first
one to respond versus someone who's going
to go oh no i tried this other
thing and name your competitor what are
those people called what's that job called
oh it's it could be i mean it
falls within digital strategy or social
strategy for that on like upwork to find
someone
Um, it's a good question.
I mean, on Upwork,
I don't know if you've seen some of
those titles on Upwork,
but it could be a social, I mean,
it could be a social media coordinator.
It could be a social team.
Yeah.
And I mean,
maybe there's someone who has like a
specific title that's like Reddit or,
you know, whatever.
Yeah.
Essentially,
the way I would pitch it if I
were a marketing person, if I was like,
what would your underling be?
If I worked for you,
what would Jimmy's title be?
Like director of something?
Because I would never be a VP of
anything, nor should I. I mean,
you could be a director, manager,
whoever the person is.
But I would say,
is it important for us to watch what
the weather looks like in Iowa if we're
in New York?
And it's like, well,
if you want to prepare people for a
blizzard two days from now,
the answer is yes.
That is what this person is doing is
they're watching the weather station and
it's like firemen.
Firemen are lazy.
Most of the time they just sit around
the firehouse and just watch TV.
Yes, but when the bell rings,
they get their stuff together and you need
them ready right then and there with the
right skill, the right tools,
the right training, the right time.
And it feels like this is not a
want.
This might be a need if you're a
large enough organization where those
decisions are being made.
You just hit it.
It's if you,
if you're a large enough organization.
Um,
but I think even smaller organizations
like figure out need to figure out how
to get that done.
That does need to be someone's job,
even if that's like off the side of
their desk job,
because it's not a nice to have.
Yeah.
It's exhausting because people will open.
I'm talking directly like to PT clinic
owners.
And they're like, well,
my job is to be a PT and
then manage other PTs and then make sure
the bills get paid.
And I'll hire someone to do billing.
And you're like, yes,
but now you have all these other problems.
From your viewpoint,
standing at the treatment table with
people constantly coming in,
if you were just a treating clinician,
and there's nothing wrong with being a
clinician, but if you're like,
now I want to make the jump to
owner,
it is not just an owner with a
little bit of a different title.
You now have different problems from a
different vantage point.
Different problems.
And it's one of those,
you don't know what you don't know.
And I think, you know,
marketing is a great example.
That is a function that needs to be
a dedicated function.
And you need to sort of trust the
experts that you bring in because there
are things, you know,
if you ask a PT clinician who made
the jump,
do they know they need to be paying
attention to Reddit, for example?
I don't know that they would know that.
Yeah.
When you hit a certain...
Well, that's where we talk about personas.
We go back to understanding your audience.
And a lot of times you'll do it
by number of clinicians or number of
locations.
I think clinicians is probably a more
accurate way of looking at it because who
knows how big a clinic would be in
your world or revenue.
Someone doing a million to three or a
million to five million dollars a year
annually has different problems than
someone doing six to ten or ten to
twenty.
Like, you know, more money, more problems.
But I think it's more money,
different problems.
Exactly, Jimmy.
That's exactly it.
It's different problems.
Yeah.
I mean, I've heard, I think,
do you know Marcus Limonis,
the prophet on MSNBC?
You don't know Marcus Limonis,
the prophet?
You and Marcus Limonis would be best
friends.
Your brains are,
you have some homework to do.
Watch episodes.
He's great.
So Marcus comes in and he's like,
he's a dude with money and knows stuff.
And someone just like Bar Rescue comes in
and is like, Marcus,
we have a key lime pie company in
Florida Keys.
And we don't know what's going on,
but we're running out of business.
Marcus goes down.
And of course, it's a reality show.
But it's cool because you see a thought
process.
And he goes through everything.
This is where I get a lot of
my paradigms from Marcus Limonis.
People, product, process.
And he's like,
it's one or two of those.
Three of them can't be broken.
You wouldn't be in business long enough to
write me an email.
One of them is probably broken.
If it's two, we have red alert.
So he breaks everything down with which
one of those things is it?
With the key lime pie business,
it's like...
does it take you too long to make
a pie?
Are your,
are your ingredients too expensive?
That's a process problem.
Or like, how are you getting them shipped?
Well,
people have to call us and then wait
for Debbie to answer, to order a pie.
It's like, whoop, whoop, whoop.
Why can't they online order?
It's twenty, twenty five.
Like he would break that down or people.
Do you just make crappy pies?
Like, like are the people wrong?
Your recipes, right?
But the people wrong.
And then product would be like, okay,
you got great people, great recipe,
but it's the product.
Just nobody wants it like product market
fit.
So he breaks things down to those,
to those three, um,
those three sort of buckets.
And usually you figure it out pretty
quick.
But just like therapy,
you can't really analyze yourself.
Like you can't therapy yourself.
That's the magic.
So where do companies go wrong with the
post we were talking about?
The customer journey and the sales
journey.
So I think where they go wrong is,
you know,
getting back to when we said they're
trying to look at it from their
perspective.
And I think what needs to happen is
they need to align the two.
You really need to start by understanding
who your customers are.
So before you get to the journey,
you sort of need to know who you're
talking to.
When we're on the B to B side,
you know,
my process I sort of go through is
who's your ICP?
Who do you think, you know,
is and then, you know,
what is do what ICP is for people?
It's an ideal customer profile.
You're you're in radio.
We called it Keith, right?
Keith was twenty eight years old,
lived in northeast Pennsylvania.
Like we literally had a name for this
dude.
Right.
And so I think on the B to
C side, we go straight to personas,
which which is fine and good.
And so Keith is our persona on the
B to C side.
I think when we're talking on the B
to B side and, you know,
like I said, you know,
going across health care,
there's you know,
I've been on the B to B.
I've been on the B to C.
We need to understand if we're selling a
SAS product, for example,
who are we selling into?
Right.
I'm selling into health insurers,
carriers, right?
That is one of my ICPs.
But within that ICP,
I'm understanding their annual revenue,
how many employees they have.
There's some things across that we're
going to say,
this is the ideal segment that we're
looking at.
Within that, who are the personas?
So if it's on the B to B
side, am I targeting the CFO?
Am I targeting the
Um, medical officer,
who are my decision makers,
who are my influencers on the B to
C side?
You know, is it Keith?
Who is Keith?
Am I targeting moms?
Am I targeting, you know, people,
sixty five plus?
What does that look like?
So I think we need to understand who
we are talking to, what their problem is.
And then how we can solve that for
them.
And then we can go, OK,
based on who they are,
let's come up with some messaging to
figure out how to solve it.
Right.
So many you look across everyone,
you know,
so many websites and it's like they're
revolutionizing something or they're
transforming.
That doesn't mean anything.
It doesn't mean anything to anyone,
I don't think.
But so I think we're solving for it.
Do you want to know why it doesn't
land?
Because you're talking about you if you're
saying that, right?
Like if you talk about me,
it's the sexiest thing.
It's the sexiest sound I'll hear all day.
People are like, oh, no, stop here.
Compliment, compliment.
Like, no, it's not.
Keep going.
But that you're revolutionizing blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
If Uber said we're revolutionizing taxis,
people would have been like, cool story,
bro.
Tell it again.
But how about, you know,
never have to wait for a ride to
somewhere you want to go again?
It'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
What?
I have that problem.
Tell me, tell me a little bit more.
I haven't, I'm not sold yet.
That's, that's not just add by,
but I'll get a little bit closer.
So I think step one is stop talking
about yourself.
So, you know,
and I'll go back to urgent care.
And I also,
when I was in the PT space did
this too,
but I remember one campaign in the urgent
care space.
I, you know,
I came up with no summer sick days.
That was our messaging.
No summer sick days.
Yeah.
you're getting back to and all of the
visuals all of the words were around like
getting back to watching your kids play
sports going to the beach whatever it may
be it wasn't about we fix a broken
arm you know we can do an x-ray
we can do whatever it may be you
know come in for a cough um but
i think that's it so it's stop talking
about yourself understand who you are
trying to sell to speak their language and
then
You need to be where they are.
And that's really what it comes down to.
And it's simple, but not easy,
as you said.
healthcare loves to say,
meet your patient where they are.
And then they'll immediately start talking
about themselves.
And I'm like,
do you think Yoda ever had to sell
himself to Luke?
Like he was just like,
tell me about you.
What do you want to become?
And show me this, show me that,
show me, show me, show me you, you,
you.
And then he spoke,
he spoke Luke's words back to him.
And he was like,
I will follow you master Yoda,
even though you're small, um, giant ears.
Um, so yeah,
Where do we go from here with this
post?
I think this post again,
and I'll share it in the show notes
so they can,
because you gave three big sets of
question.
Before they found you,
a bunch of questions.
While they're evaluating you,
a bunch of questions.
After they buy or don't,
a bunch of questions.
to me this should be turned into a
pdf checklist and you should run this
question through every product service and
audience if you have one product and one
audience you only have to do this once
if you have one product and multiple
audiences again multiple times multiple
products one audience still multiple times
you understand what i'm saying here like
you and you can do this
Apple's not a computer company.
They're a creating things or connecting
things company,
but they have different campaigns for
different products.
They also have multiple audiences.
Right.
And the, you know,
and the output from this is like,
where do we go from here?
The output when you've answered those
questions and more is you have on paper
customer journeys and you have them for
each of your types of customers.
And there's still a little asterisk that
goes,
not all humans are going to behave this
way, but here's some direction.
Right.
And I think that's, you know, the.
What we want to get to is how
can we understand how most of the humans
are maybe behaving?
And you're going to have multiple
journeys.
We're not going to it's not going to
get us to one hundred percent.
Correct.
I want to say thanks to Empower EMR,
talking about SaaS,
software as a service for the cool kids.
The EMR designed by and for physical
therapists.
Faster documentation, simpler billing,
and more time to do what you do
best.
Be a physical therapist.
Who would have thought?
Find them online at empoweremr.com.
It's empoweremr.com.
They know that switching over is
stressful.
You can do a full test drive online.
No pressure, like kick the tires,
light the fires,
see if you want to do it or
don't.
I do also like to do PSAs.
This is one for an organization I've been
involved with since PT school.
Let's shine a light on Go Baby Go.
You would love this idea.
This idea is fantastic.
They support kids with mobility challenges
through safe,
modified ride-on cars because every kid
deserves to enjoy a movement,
even if they roll a little differently.
They essentially go into, like,
they'll take the battery-powered ride-on
cars...
then go to home depot to get pool
noodles or pvc pot like anything you need
to do to rewire the car for the
kid not the kid for the car and
then they just give these plans away and
then people do like hackathons in their
own communities for kids you can't mass
produce custom stuff those two things do
not make sense um but you can customize
stuff at scale
And if you do a hackathon,
so these things are just like go to
Go Baby Go or just Google Go Baby
Go.
You'll find out where your local chapter
is.
I got exposed to it in PT school
and my school is at Marymount University
is a super site,
which means they do X number of builds
per year and make the X number of
cars.
It's pretty dope.
You said marketing compounds.
That sounds like a financial term.
So what does marketing compounds actually
mean?
Like how can a one million dollar clinic
start thinking that way?
Because a lot of people would say in
my world,
I posted three times last week and it
didn't work.
Or I ran Facebook ads for a month
and it didn't work.
So I have other thoughts,
but I want to hear what your idea,
what you meant when you said marketing
compounds.
Yep, so what I think in that instance,
in that post,
what I meant and what I think generally
I mean is if you're doing the right
marketing, you're doing smart marketing,
you're doing strategic marketing to the
people where they are and solving problems
for them,
your marketing is going to continue to
compound and grow for you.
If you're just doing patchwork marketing
or throwing things at the wall and doing
three posts, wonderful,
what were those posts?
What else did you do?
What were you saying in those posts?
you know you're you're not going to see
that growth um but really that's what i'm
i was talking about i had a post
every day we're talking a lot about posts
right i knew my audience my audience
typically is physical therapists and now
i'm getting more into the owners or people
who want to become owners of their own
destiny and clinic and i said so i
started the post by saying doesn't it
frustrate you as a physical therapist when
now i already win
I earned three seconds more.
If you saw that,
I stopped your skull for three seconds.
So I essentially said,
doesn't it frustrate you as a physical
therapist when people say,
tried PT doesn't work.
Now I've got them.
they're going to read another twenty
seconds because they go, yes,
that is a biggest annoyance.
And what I was getting at is the
next your snapshot reaction now is to say,
but maybe it was bad PT or what
they do,
or maybe you were inconsistent or maybe
this or maybe that defending the entire
profession.
while knowing very little about the
situation.
And that's good.
Those are great questions to ask.
Those are good motivational interviewing
questions to ask if that person were in
front of you or at Thanksgiving or holiday
dinner, right?
Oh, you're a PT?
Tried that, didn't work.
Your reaction would be like, PT's great.
You had a crappy one.
Better would be,
help me understand what that looked like
because what I think is good and what
that, right.
All right,
so that was the gist of the post.
And then I flipped it.
But what if I said to the same
PT who had that visceral reaction to PT
doesn't work,
those people a lot of times will say
content doesn't work.
Marketing doesn't work.
I tried it six months ago.
We put a thousand dollars into it and
it didn't do anything.
Do you see the parallel?
Well, what'd you do?
Did you,
did you go to your parking lot and
light a hundred dollars on fire and record
it and put it online?
Yeah.
That wouldn't work either.
What'd you do?
Did you understand your Simon Sinek loves
to say,
start with why dude is multi bestselling
author, whatever Ted, one of the most why,
but I'm going to go against Simon Sinek.
Not really, but hold you start with who?
Yes.
We've talked about this.
You start with,
you start with who we'll do a whole
episode on this.
That's next week.
You have to start with who,
then you go to what,
what are their problems, their hopes,
their dreams, their bads and goods.
Then no, hold on.
Then you go to your thing,
but what can you do about those hopes
and dreams and problems?
And where like a Venn diagram,
which is my favorite Venn diagram.
Wherever there are hopes and dreams and
problems and your solutions and strengths
cross, that is your shared why.
That's how you get GE brings good things
to life.
That's how you can just do it.
That's how you get think different.
It is a stupid process that starts with
who, crosses what, and then you can say,
you can transfer that what
in video, audio, text,
a mime standing in front.
You can do that if it makes sense.
But I tried marketing.
I tried content.
It didn't work to the PT who says,
well, maybe you had crappy PT.
Like to me, it's a great,
you cannot have,
you cannot have both without speaking
outside both sides of your mouth.
Yep.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think the start with why is an
interesting one, too.
You have to start with who.
And I think, you know,
when I've talked to people who have said
marketing doesn't work or I've tried a
bunch of agencies or I went through a
bunch of marketing leaders.
well,
help me understand what you were doing.
You know, what,
what did they do for you?
What was the strategy?
And that's a frustrating thing as a
marketing leader,
sort of going and going marketing hasn't
worked or, you know, it's no secret.
And I shared at the beginning,
marketing has the shortest tenure in the
C-suite and for a few reasons,
but it's very misunderstood.
And I think if you're not getting
immediate results,
you're out the door because marketing is
tied to pipeline and revenue and,
you know, for better or worse.
And I think it's,
you know,
like understand what you're doing and
understand also how long it's going to
take before you get rid of your marketing
team.
But you know,
why did you have so many marketers?
Did you give them strategy?
Did you help them understand what the
strategy is so they could do what they're
doing?
Because yeah,
if you go hire someone and go make
me some posts,
they're just going to make you some posts,
right?
You're hiring a junior level social media
person.
They're going to make you posts.
What does that mean?
What is that going to do?
I did some stuff.
Andrea, look, I did mark.
I did marketing.
Was it good?
I marketed.
What'd you do today?
Marketed.
And you know, we won't,
we won't get into hiring people and then
telling them what to do and then wondering
why it didn't work.
Right.
So that's another, I mean, I've, yeah,
a lot of war stories.
Of course.
Do you know who Chris Doe is?
I don't.
Man, I'm dropping a lot.
You got more homework.
Chris Doe is like a graphic designer.
But now he sort of helps people understand
how to build a brand,
talking a lot to freelancers a lot of
the times or brands, whatever.
And he, I think it was him,
had a price guide.
I'll find it.
And essentially it was like,
I do everything, five thousand dollars.
I do everything,
but you tell me how to do it.
Ten thousand dollars.
I'm going to charge you more.
And then eventually he gets down to,
I sit there and watch while you do
everything.
Fifty thousand dollars.
Why did you hire me?
Dude,
I bought the house I'm sitting in right
now three years ago, four years ago.
And I renovated my kitchen because I was
like, I don't have a lot of money.
How hard could it be?
Spoiler alert.
Really, really, really hard.
It's really hard.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't have any of the tools.
I owned a hammer and a screwdriver.
So when someone says your kitchen is going
to cost forty grand, you're like,
that's ridiculous.
I could do it better,
cheaper and then do it.
I will never renovate a kitchen again.
It's not awful.
I had friends help me,
but still I get it now.
The problem is I think with sometimes when
in marketing or kitchen renovations,
if you sell, well,
I'm going to demo your kitchen that costs
three thousand dollars.
I'm going to I'm going to haul all
the garbage away from your old kitchen.
That's fifteen hundred.
What would it what do you want it
to feel like when you wake up in
the morning and you turn your coffee pot
on?
Clean, new, fresh.
You sell clean, new, fresh.
Don't sell demo, sheetrock, electrical,
plumbing.
If you sell those things,
you'll be selling those things forever.
But I sell one dream.
You tell me what the dream is,
I'll draw it up.
And then you want it or you don't,
that's my prescription.
So there's a lot of words I'm using
like prescription or sell that sounds like
they're healthcare or marketing.
They're both.
Yep.
Humans.
Yep.
All right,
so we figured out what marketing
compounds.
What does patchwork marketing look like in
the wild?
You just mentioned one of the things.
I'll give you your first answer,
which is post a bunch of things.
Post a bunch of things.
What are the purposes?
Where are you posting them?
What do they look like?
Words, pictures, videos?
So that's patchwork marketing, right?
I mean, what does it look like?
it's throwing things at the wall
essentially.
Right.
So people like activity,
activity feels productive.
Right.
So I'm posting,
I'm doing the things I'm creating branded
tchotchkes.
I'm, you know, like we,
we did an ad we're featured in this
magazine.
Um, so patchwork marketing is, um,
exactly what it sounds like.
You're putting a bunch of things together.
You don't have a strategy behind it.
You don't know why you're doing it.
You don't know if they're the right
things.
You know,
it's sort of the extreme of just doing
one thing because you think that one thing
works, right?
So I think in marketing,
you need to be in multiple places,
but you also need to understand what those
places are and why you're there.
Ideally,
it's where your customers or prospective
customers are.
can I put it back to physical therapy
specifically?
I had a great CI and I'd be
working with a patient.
She,
she gave me a lot of leash when
she figured out she could trust me.
And then every once in a while she'd
come up and she goes,
why are they doing that?
And I got real nervous in the beginning.
Like,
She's asking me why I'm having the patient
do that exercise.
So I got real nervous.
I was like, well, you know,
and I started like doing like
biomechanical and rolling glide.
And she was just like, no,
I don't know anything about the patient.
I look at the charts,
wanted to see why you're having them do
that.
I was like, oh, okay.
And she would do this periodically.
Why are they doing that?
And I thought it was at first like
an audit, but really she was just like,
Just always be thinking I'm going to ask
you why you're doing that.
And you just need to have a simple
answer.
She needs really the outside of her glutes
that are really weak.
So I'm doing everything I can and I'm
trying to make it fun to strengthen those
glutes.
And she was like, keep it up.
Why are you doing that post?
Because it says on the thing that at
eleven o'clock we post on LinkedIn.
And I'm like, why?
Why?
I think there is a place for patchwork
marketing and it's in the marketing
office.
That's the place you throw a bunch of
things against the wall,
but then it doesn't leave that room until
you go, you act like,
and I have this gif queued up at
all times.
This is what you're supposed to look like
in the office in marketing.
You're supposed to look like Charlie in
Always Sunny with the red lines and you're
doing the thing and you're connecting the
dots.
That's what goes on in Jimmy's brain.
What should come out is something that is
digestible, clear, concise, consistent.
But patchwork marketing gets patchwork
results.
I'll talk now to associations.
Volunteer efforts get volunteer results.
So patchwork marketing, patchwork results,
volunteer,
amateur efforts get amateur results.
It's math, maths.
The math, math, you know,
it's also called random acts of marketing.
And I think what happens, I've seen it.
So I've seen it in PT.
I've seen it in other other types of
organizations across health care is an
organization starts at zero.
They're homegrown.
It's a mom and pop.
Right.
Let's talk about PT one clinic.
They do some marketing themselves.
They start to grow.
They grow word of mouth.
There are other ways they grow.
They hit a point, right?
And so this is why I market myself
as working with business founders who are
in the three million to thirty five
million revenue range.
And from three to thirty five,
they have very different needs and it
looks very different.
But I've been across all of those.
At some point,
you start you need to start getting very
strategic and you need to start putting a
strategy in place as to how you're going
to maintain the patients you have and then
also grow beyond that and scale.
Because what got you here isn't going to
get you there.
And I think random acts of marketing,
you know,
by by luck certainly helps some people get
to a certain point.
It's not going to help you get to
that next level.
Yeah.
And I have a new idea for the
show name.
Marketing doesn't work with Andrea.
You know what I mean?
Like stay the anti thing.
Like we're, we're workshopping this.
We had a bunch of ideas.
We went to chat GPT.
We got cool.
Like the shift marketing, whatever.
And I'm like, you know what?
Marketing doesn't work.
And then we're going to talk about all
the ways that it actually does work if
you do it right.
So I want to draw people that goes,
yeah, it does.
Those are the people I want to talk
to.
The people that already agree with us.
I kind of don't want to talk to
you.
I want you to go do.
Marketing doesn't work.
Great.
Come, come enjoy,
except I'm going to prove you wrong by
showing you how it actually, what it,
what it does,
what it looks like when it's done well.
Jimmy, it's almost like, you know,
the prospect, it's almost like, you know,
the audience and you're speaking to them.
Right.
Does it feel good though?
Like,
and I know we use extreme examples and
sometimes that's good.
And sometimes that's bad.
Like talking about Apple, like it's like,
In PT,
it's like if you get a high school
football player and they're like,
I want to be Patrick Mahomes.
So I'm going to do all the exercises
that Patrick Mahomes is doing.
And the problem in rehab with that is
like you're not there yet.
You don't have to do those exercises.
You need to do the exercises Patrick
Mahomes did when he was fifteen.
Exactly.
Those exercises.
Right.
And like, again,
why are you doing that exercise?
Patrick Mahomes does that.
Patrick Mahomes is a freak of nature.
And he also did a bunch of the
basics really well.
So I'm going to have you do that
instead.
I want to do the same thing,
but marketing.
So it's like,
but Apple does two lines and I'm going
to go cool, but they've got thirty, forty,
I don't know how many years,
decades worth of brand.
And I like to talk about branding from
where the term came from.
There were some cow pokes out on the
range who didn't know whose cow was who.
So they heated up some iron and put
their logo on things.
So people look and think branding is a
logo.
Branding's warming it up, people.
Branding's making it hot.
So when it touches you,
it burns itself in.
You're looking at the logo.
I'm looking at the verb.
I want you to verb, not noun.
Ooh, look at that.
I just made that up.
I'm not even sure if that's grammatically
correct.
But people will be like, well,
I'm just going to do what Apple does.
And I'm like, you're not there yet.
You're not there.
And that's why you have to build a,
you know, there's, I, I, it's a,
a foundation.
You need to do this stuff before you
can, before you can get to here.
And branding is, we have to talk,
we have,
we'll probably have an entire episode on
that.
Branding is near and dear.
You can't have growth without brand,
but brand alone is not going to get
you growth.
Right.
Brand's not your name.
Like Google is a dumb name.
It's a dumb name.
That's not really what you know.
Google is now the thing you have.
You now have it.
Like if I said Google has a cologne,
you'd maybe almost be able to figure out
what it was.
It's like, you know, kind of like geeky.
Right.
Like if Google was a dude like,
all right, let's go right back to this.
Here's a perfect personification ad
campaign.
That is awesome.
chef's kiss.
And the timing is right to bring this
back for anybody who has balls enough to,
to, to take it back over.
Do you remember Mac versus PC?
Absolutely.
Mac versus PC.
We'll talk about it in the next episode.
Maybe we'll show a clip was two actors,
white background, nothing, nothingness.
Right.
And it was the actor, Justin long,
who sort of like dressed like me,
like just t-shirt and like unbuttoned
flannel.
And he's like,
cool,
but he was not the coolest kid in
high school.
He was,
everybody knew him and sort of liked him,
right?
That's how Justin Long walks on the
screen, whether you know him or not.
And then this other guy walks on with
like a sweater vest with a suit jacket
and glasses and hair that's glued down.
And they're just like,
and they're just talking to each other and
they just, Hey, Hey Mac, Hey PC.
And,
And then instead of having to talk about
megabytes or processing speed or anything,
Justin is doing something on his phone.
And PC's like, what are you doing?
He's like, I'm editing a video.
On your phone?
Yeah.
How much did that app cost?
Oh, no.
You just get all the apps when you
buy an iPhone.
And is it hard to use?
Because I spent six months learning how to
use Pro Tools.
And he's like, no,
I'm pretty all right with it.
But it took me like twelve minutes.
That is framing...
They may,
they knew who they're not with another
audience and their problems and their
hopes and their dreams.
They knew the villain and Microsoft
spreadsheets and Microsoft word.
And they're like, you know what we are?
Not that chef's kiss.
No notes.
It's a good one.
Oh, so good.
I wanted to bring that back and we
still might.
If Patrick is listening,
I'm going to send him this episode.
I'm going to say Patrick at forty nine
minutes in.
So they make vestibular goggles.
I showed you this once, right?
Did, yes.
They make goggles that essentially to
really figure out what's wrong with
someone's brain if they have a vestibular
issue.
If they have something wrong,
if it's a vestibular issue,
and if it is, where, is very difficult.
The problem is, Andrea,
you need to be able to look at
the person's eyes.
Is it spinning?
Is it torquing?
Is it nystagmasing?
In what direction?
when you have a light coming into the
eyes that those movements are dampened,
it's a natural human.
It's a good thing for the brain, right?
So you just need to see someone's eyes
in the dark, which is hard.
So they were like, okay,
I see your eyes in the dark.
And what we'll do is we'll just put
them in like, almost like an Oculus.
But night vision cameras,
so you can look on your laptop as
the clinician and go, oh,
I can see your eyes in the dark.
The patient sees nothingness.
The eyes are like, oh,
I can do the thing that I'm supposed
to give away my secret of where the
problem is.
I said do Mac versus PC.
And here's the personifications.
Their vestibular first goggles are Mac.
And PC are Frenzel lenses.
And Frenzel lenses are like giant Coke
bottle lenses that would make the person's
eyes look like this.
That was the solution like fifty years
ago.
But here's the thing.
Clinics still use Frenzel lenses.
They still use them.
All it does is make the eye bigger.
You still need light,
which ruins the whole gag, right?
So I was like, Patrick, Mac versus PC.
Like, I don't even care.
And he was like, great, you're Mac.
I'm like, oh, crap.
I just talked myself into a role.
I don't even have a SAG card.
But like, that's marketing, man.
And here's the thing, though.
vestibular first not new they've been
around they've got street cred you can go
into reddit people are if you say i
need vestibular they're like people people
that don't know patrick and helena jump in
and go this link buy them do not
question it have a nice day no no
end of story they are now here trying
to get here now it is appropriate to
do that here no well no maybe i
don't know i don't know that's a quick
way equity
They already have the brand equity.
They might have been able to pull it
off here.
I think it would pop here because all
their raving fans would go, yes, yes,
that is it.
You put my words.
I hear my words coming out of your
mouth is the sexiest thing on the planet.
No summer sick days.
is what moms are thinking.
That's their problem now.
It wasn't their problem seven years ago.
Their problem seven years ago was where do
we go on spring break?
Their problem now is summer sick days.
Why?
Because something happened on spring break
and now we got summer sick days.
Their problem then was no spring break
sick days, right?
Yes.
Now they're trying to get...
But that could be a campaign for urgent
care because you're talking to the mom
that seven years ago,
she was at Daytona Beach...
right swipe right on uber uh so swipe
right on tinder yeah but you could say
those things if you're positioned right um
all right we've got eight minutes left
we're gonna do this i don't know weekly
You were hesitant to do this at all
because you're like,
I'm not a podcast person.
And I'm like, Andrea,
every one of our phone calls where I
randomly call you and I'm like,
what do you think about that?
That's a podcast.
This is a podcast.
That's a podcast.
I will ask last question.
Well, I have other questions.
No, you know what?
Let's jump to the game.
I'm going to save this question.
We're going to do a game and I
think I have a stinger for it.
Hang on.
Yeah, I'm just going to play this thing.
Game time.
It's called Mushy or Mighty.
Okay.
Mushy or mighty.
If your clinic's marketing feels like a
bunch of disconnected tactics,
we can help you turn them around in
a game called mushy or mighty.
I'm going to read a few positioning
statements.
You say if it's mushy and then why,
like, why is it mushy?
Just a line or two.
And then, or like, yeah, no,
I like when you're not prepped for this.
And then just tweak in one sentence.
So here it is.
We provide top tier rehabilitation
services for all ages.
Is that mushy?
Why?
I don't know what top tier rehabilitation
services are.
What does that mean?
I mean, all ages, great.
I know that I can take my child
or my parent or whomever,
but I don't know what that means.
And you see,
we are excellent evidence-based clinicians
all over the place in job postings,
in position statements on websites.
We don't know what that means.
We're the only PT clinic in Manhattan
focused exclusively on runners returning
from ACL surgery.
Love it.
Mighty.
Why?
I know exactly what they do.
You speak to me.
I am a runner returning from ACL surgery.
Right.
But I'm a fifteen year old wannabe
football player.
You're like, I doesn't feel like me.
That sounds like.
But I want everybody.
You might want lots of people,
but you don't want everybody.
Exactly.
I was told you're not pizza and you're
not.
Well, something else that's a little.
So you can't make everybody not pizza.
You're not ice cream.
You can't make everybody happy except for
the lactose intolerant.
We use cutting edge technology to
personalize care.
Mushy.
Mushy, right?
It's close,
but like you're missing things.
You're missing things.
I mean, you know,
I think I was hesitant because I've been
in health care for so long.
I've heard so many versions of that.
And in B to B, I think,
you know,
other B to B buyers might go, oh,
that sounds cool.
But also, I don't know what you're doing.
This is also – we use cutting-edge
technology to personalize care.
Care for who?
This feels like – I took a technical
writing class in high school with Mr.
Mooney,
and I took it because I just didn't
want to have an extra study hall.
And you would do exercises like – he'd
be like, hey, the exercise today,
write down the instructions on how to make
a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
Did you ever do this before?
No.
Great exercise.
So you're like, well,
I'm going to be done.
And he's like,
when you're done and it's perfect,
you can leave and go roam the halls.
I don't care.
He knew damn well no one was going
to do it perfect.
So step one was like,
take the jar of peanut butter and open
it.
And he was like, okay.
And he took the jar and left the
room.
And you were like, what just happened?
Mr. Mooney just left.
He was like, you said take the jar.
Yeah.
Well, I left.
Take the jar and wear, dumbass.
And you were like, oh,
he's going to do everything literally.
And then level eight was like,
teach me how to tie my shoes and
text only.
And you were like, take the lace.
Oh, don't take the lace.
Nobody's going to do it.
Take the laces.
And then you start going the other way,
which is like...
Grasp the left lace in your first, second,
and third digit.
And now when you're writing, you're like,
this is insane.
It's like there's a happy medium.
There is a happy medium.
Last one.
Trusted by physicians across the region.
It's mushy because I still don't know what
they're trusted for.
I like the endorsement that they're
trusted by physicians,
but that's not what I'm leading with.
I don't know who you're talking to or
how you can help me.
I call this like,
this is like an idea part.
It's like when I'm like,
I got twenty percent of something.
And when I find the other half,
it's going to be great.
So let me I put this in a
swipe file, like save this for what?
I don't know.
So you can this is four to five
dentists agree.
But if you're if you have to immediately
preface it by saying our toothbrush or
toothpaste.
Exactly.
Whatever.
It's trusted by physicians across the
region.
Yep.
All right.
That was mushy or muddy.
Maybe we'll bring that one back.
Maybe we'll mix up the game.
The last thing we do on the episode.
Did I prep you for this?
We have a thing called the parting shot.
This is the parting shot.
One last mic drop moment.
No pressure.
Just your legacy on the line.
No pressure,
just your entire legacy on the line.
Brought to you by Brooks IHL,
helping PTs lead beyond the clinic through
expert coaching, leadership training,
and real world business skills.
Brooks IHL,
where future leaders are built.
Find them online at brooksihl.org.
That is brooksihl.org.
So the only thing you have to do
here is just,
what's one idea or concept you would just
leave with the audience?
You can reiterate something,
probably with what we're talking about,
but like,
Here's why I do this.
Number one,
it tells the guests that we're wrapping
the episode up.
So, hey, wrap it up.
Also, great clippable clip for socials,
right?
Because you're going to like drop the mic
here.
I'm going to drop the mic.
I mean, it's pretty simple.
So I think my one piece of advice
is know your audience,
know who you're talking to,
and then speak to them about them.
Sexiest thing they're going to hear all
day.
I forgot to mention something you said
before.
It does feel good to be busy.
It feels good to do action.
But make sure that action has direction,
right?
That's what a vector is.
It's magnitude and direction.
You have to have both of those things.
I forget who said the first time,
but it is stuck,
which is make sure it doesn't look like
a monkey humping a football.
A lot of things happening,
but nothing actually getting done, right?
There's a lot of motion, which is,
is it good?
I don't know.
The monkey's humping the football.
Do we want that?
Don't know.
But look how much is happening.
There's a lot of stuff going on.
That doesn't mean it's good.
I'm going to share the link in the
show notes to find Andrea's post we talked
about.
If you want to be able to peek
in on the brain of someone who's done
it with small, medium,
large companies across a bunch of things,
but a lot in healthcare,
Andrea is someone you should just...
She's giving away the free.
It's the free on LinkedIn.
And then you double click and you're like,
Yeah,
I should probably have someone like Andrea
on my team.
You can get her what's called
fractionally,
which is like all of Andrea for some
of the time.
And then you don't have to pay for
all of Andrea's time.
So that's what fraction was.
Andrea, thanks for doing this.
Right now,
the leader in the clubhouse for the name
of the recurring show is marketing doesn't
work.
I think that's the one.
We'll do it again next Monday.
Thank you.
That's it for this one,
but we're just getting warmed up.
Smash follow, send it to a friend,
or crank up the next episode.
Want to go deeper?
Hit us at pgpinecast.com or find us on
YouTube and socials at pgpinecast.
And legally, none of this was advice.
It's for entertainment purposes only.
Bullshit!
See, Keith?
We read the script.
Happy now?
That's it for this one,
but we're just getting warmed up.
Smash follow, send it to a friend,
or crank up the next episode.
Want to go deeper?
Hit us at pgpinecast.com or find us on
YouTube and socials at pgpinecast.
And legally, none of this was advice.
It's for entertainment purposes only.
Bullshit!
See, Keith?
We read the script.
Happy now?