WEBVTT 00:00:03.442 --> 00:00:03.621 All right, 00:00:03.641 --> 00:00:05.383 this episode is brought to you by Get 00:00:05.423 --> 00:00:06.142 the Message Out. 00:00:06.182 --> 00:00:07.583 If you ever want to launch a podcast 00:00:07.644 --> 00:00:09.124 or a YouTube channel or finally get 00:00:09.183 --> 00:00:11.585 consistent about with the social media 00:00:11.605 --> 00:00:13.486 content, I built that. 00:00:13.865 --> 00:00:15.385 I built Get the Message Out to help 00:00:15.406 --> 00:00:16.306 you do exactly that. 00:00:16.606 --> 00:00:17.966 Are you ready to stop thinking and start 00:00:17.986 --> 00:00:18.387 creating? 00:00:18.628 --> 00:00:19.408 Just hit me with an email, 00:00:19.487 --> 00:00:22.208 jimmy at ptpinecast.com, and let's roll. 00:00:22.449 --> 00:00:23.989 This episode is powered by Brooks 00:00:24.048 --> 00:00:26.269 Rehabilitation Institute of Higher 00:00:26.309 --> 00:00:26.530 Learning, 00:00:26.570 --> 00:00:29.571 the place physical therapists go when they 00:00:29.611 --> 00:00:30.692 want to get really good 00:00:31.231 --> 00:00:32.533 Whether you're thinking orthopedics, 00:00:32.573 --> 00:00:33.954 geriatrics, or pediatrics, 00:00:34.594 --> 00:00:36.454 their residencies and fellowships help you 00:00:36.494 --> 00:00:38.716 become the clinician people rely on. 00:00:39.197 --> 00:00:41.198 Check out what your next level looks like 00:00:41.537 --> 00:00:42.497 at brooksihl.org. 00:00:42.579 --> 00:00:48.781 All right, what do Dr. Pepper, knee pain, 00:00:48.822 --> 00:00:50.162 biomechanics, wizardry, 00:00:50.643 --> 00:00:53.564 and a survivor application all have in 00:00:53.604 --> 00:00:53.865 common? 00:00:54.468 --> 00:00:55.348 It's this episode. 00:00:55.768 --> 00:00:56.389 It was rhetorical. 00:00:56.909 --> 00:00:58.930 We're diving into today why runners aren't 00:00:58.970 --> 00:01:00.152 broken by running, 00:01:00.472 --> 00:01:02.593 why PTs need to stop acting like the 00:01:02.633 --> 00:01:04.334 person you end up with, 00:01:04.734 --> 00:01:06.355 and how a small clinic in Arkansas is 00:01:06.396 --> 00:01:08.757 making a big move to blend performance, 00:01:08.796 --> 00:01:09.237 prevention, 00:01:09.278 --> 00:01:12.219 and rehab into one seamless system. 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.120 He's part coach, part clinician, 00:01:14.161 --> 00:01:15.022 and part community builder. 00:01:15.341 --> 00:01:17.102 From treating injuries to directing races, 00:01:17.462 --> 00:01:20.025 please welcome to the show, Logan Dockery. 00:01:25.781 --> 00:01:26.341 How was that intro? 00:01:26.361 --> 00:01:27.143 It's pretty smooth, right? 00:01:27.203 --> 00:01:28.724 I saw the Dr. Pepper reference in there. 00:01:28.743 --> 00:01:29.043 I like it. 00:01:29.063 --> 00:01:30.204 Yeah. 00:01:30.644 --> 00:01:31.846 So you and I have a love for 00:01:31.885 --> 00:01:32.307 Dr. Pepper. 00:01:32.367 --> 00:01:32.947 I don't drink. 00:01:32.986 --> 00:01:34.347 Admittedly, I don't drink a lot of soda. 00:01:34.968 --> 00:01:36.969 But when I allow myself some, if Dr. 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:39.992 Pepper is close, that is my go to. 00:01:40.212 --> 00:01:42.093 So what's what's your what's where's your 00:01:42.134 --> 00:01:42.593 thread there? 00:01:42.614 --> 00:01:43.834 What's your love of the Dr. Pepper? 00:01:44.254 --> 00:01:45.576 Too much is the thread. 00:01:45.697 --> 00:01:46.518 Yeah, too much. 00:01:47.179 --> 00:01:48.040 I drink too much Dr. 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:49.441 Pepper and Mellow Yellow. 00:01:49.701 --> 00:01:51.384 That is a classic as well. 00:01:51.403 --> 00:01:53.165 Wow, a throwback to Mellow Yellow. 00:01:53.986 --> 00:01:55.067 Now, is that a Southern thing? 00:01:55.128 --> 00:01:55.728 I'm from New York, 00:01:55.748 --> 00:01:57.290 but I remember drinking Mellow Yellows at 00:01:57.311 --> 00:01:58.572 my grandmother's condo in Florida. 00:01:58.591 --> 00:01:59.612 That's the only place I think I've ever 00:01:59.653 --> 00:01:59.933 had it. 00:02:00.486 --> 00:02:02.647 i have no idea i have no idea 00:02:02.667 --> 00:02:03.587 i i am one of the few that 00:02:03.606 --> 00:02:05.227 still drink it though yeah you are keeping 00:02:05.248 --> 00:02:06.409 it that and i remember it was one 00:02:06.429 --> 00:02:07.888 of the sponsor cars in the tom cruise 00:02:07.929 --> 00:02:10.110 movie days of thunder but we're not here 00:02:10.129 --> 00:02:12.110 to talk about dr pepper or mellow yellow 00:02:12.131 --> 00:02:13.812 but i'm sure we could we're here to 00:02:13.852 --> 00:02:15.272 talk about you so logan welcome to the 00:02:15.293 --> 00:02:17.554 show you are in the great state of 00:02:17.614 --> 00:02:20.675 arkansas and you are a physical therapist 00:02:20.694 --> 00:02:22.056 for how long give us like the sort 00:02:22.075 --> 00:02:23.556 of the context when did you graduate how 00:02:23.576 --> 00:02:24.236 long you been practicing 00:02:24.656 --> 00:02:24.836 Yeah, 00:02:24.855 --> 00:02:26.216 I graduated in two thousand fourteen from 00:02:26.235 --> 00:02:27.856 the University of Central Arkansas with my 00:02:27.896 --> 00:02:30.037 clinical doctorate and then my Ph.D. 00:02:30.758 --> 00:02:32.318 years later while working in a hospital 00:02:32.358 --> 00:02:33.918 system, I attained that as well. 00:02:34.778 --> 00:02:36.038 But I've been practicing for about ten 00:02:36.079 --> 00:02:37.218 years now, a little over ten years. 00:02:37.618 --> 00:02:37.919 Love it. 00:02:37.938 --> 00:02:40.960 And you believe this physical therapists 00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:45.061 should be the leaders in musculoskeletal 00:02:45.121 --> 00:02:45.401 care. 00:02:45.540 --> 00:02:47.162 Logan, why do you think that? 00:02:47.836 --> 00:02:51.079 I think physical therapists need to step 00:02:51.098 --> 00:02:52.259 to the plate and be able to do 00:02:52.300 --> 00:02:54.521 that and have our position in there. 00:02:55.362 --> 00:02:56.183 Not as a competitor, 00:02:56.204 --> 00:02:58.406 but definitely as a collaborator, right? 00:02:58.445 --> 00:02:59.206 We need to go in, 00:02:59.546 --> 00:03:02.229 healthcare as a whole needs collaboration. 00:03:02.330 --> 00:03:05.853 For a patient to have true healthcare, 00:03:05.893 --> 00:03:08.695 to have like true path into improving 00:03:08.716 --> 00:03:09.195 their life, 00:03:09.256 --> 00:03:10.497 improving their functional mobility, 00:03:11.318 --> 00:03:13.262 we need to have a collaborative approach 00:03:13.802 --> 00:03:14.783 in that sense. 00:03:15.004 --> 00:03:16.387 But the way our traditional model is set 00:03:16.426 --> 00:03:17.568 up, it makes it pretty difficult. 00:03:18.110 --> 00:03:20.473 But I do think PTs need to be 00:03:20.514 --> 00:03:22.677 the leader in neuromusculoskeletal care. 00:03:23.814 --> 00:03:25.075 We graduated around the same time. 00:03:25.116 --> 00:03:26.056 I was twenty sixteen. 00:03:26.157 --> 00:03:27.399 We've been hearing this a lot. 00:03:27.739 --> 00:03:29.762 What are we doing wrong that this isn't 00:03:29.782 --> 00:03:30.181 the case? 00:03:30.201 --> 00:03:31.883 Because I feel like even when we were 00:03:31.924 --> 00:03:33.006 students back in the day, 00:03:33.286 --> 00:03:34.167 we were saying this. 00:03:34.627 --> 00:03:35.528 Are we getting better? 00:03:35.709 --> 00:03:36.210 And if so, 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:38.111 what do we need to do more of 00:03:38.532 --> 00:03:40.213 to speed that up or to sort of 00:03:40.274 --> 00:03:41.276 cement that idea? 00:03:42.455 --> 00:03:43.998 I think it's very layered, right? 00:03:44.038 --> 00:03:44.800 Just with everything. 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:46.802 Everything is very layered into how we 00:03:46.842 --> 00:03:48.544 approach it, the problems that are there, 00:03:48.604 --> 00:03:51.308 the speed bumps that might be that are 00:03:51.329 --> 00:03:52.790 there now and that are definitely coming 00:03:52.811 --> 00:03:53.171 later. 00:03:53.973 --> 00:03:55.455 All those things kind of apply and kind 00:03:55.495 --> 00:03:56.295 of slow the progressions. 00:03:56.336 --> 00:03:58.139 Plus healthcare in general just takes 00:03:58.199 --> 00:03:58.500 time. 00:03:58.900 --> 00:04:00.341 right consistency and messaging 00:04:00.381 --> 00:04:03.323 consistency in the education and even 00:04:03.923 --> 00:04:05.884 building leaders to be able to take the 00:04:05.925 --> 00:04:07.765 path forward so i think one of the 00:04:07.806 --> 00:04:09.747 biggest things we need are leaders to step 00:04:09.787 --> 00:04:13.009 up to the plate for um people like 00:04:13.069 --> 00:04:14.890 me and and other leaders in the field 00:04:14.950 --> 00:04:17.773 to to try to push and advocate for 00:04:17.932 --> 00:04:21.175 our path in a neuromusculoskeletal 00:04:21.194 --> 00:04:24.237 approach and be the primary path not an 00:04:24.317 --> 00:04:25.197 ancillary service 00:04:25.577 --> 00:04:26.699 You need noise makers, man. 00:04:26.718 --> 00:04:27.980 You need people who know how to say 00:04:28.019 --> 00:04:30.062 something in fifty five seconds, 00:04:30.343 --> 00:04:32.504 ten seconds, five seconds or two seconds. 00:04:32.524 --> 00:04:34.867 You need people who can do that and 00:04:34.887 --> 00:04:36.487 that their job is to do that on 00:04:36.507 --> 00:04:38.250 a regular basis. 00:04:38.329 --> 00:04:39.271 And I think, too, 00:04:39.290 --> 00:04:41.952 that people are inside the clinic and that 00:04:42.033 --> 00:04:43.355 see this on a day to day basis. 00:04:43.394 --> 00:04:44.396 We hear our patients. 00:04:45.089 --> 00:04:48.211 I spend hours with patients weekly that 00:04:48.252 --> 00:04:50.252 come in that tell me what their 00:04:50.273 --> 00:04:50.973 limitations are, 00:04:50.994 --> 00:04:51.994 what they're struggling with, 00:04:52.053 --> 00:04:53.615 the past in life that have become 00:04:53.634 --> 00:04:54.334 difficult for them. 00:04:54.975 --> 00:04:56.497 And we're in a unique position, 00:04:56.516 --> 00:04:58.437 both in our skill sets, our education, 00:04:59.038 --> 00:05:01.238 and how our practices are set up, 00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:03.300 that we can impact people's lives in a 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:03.860 great way. 00:05:04.661 --> 00:05:06.822 We are in a unique position to then 00:05:07.002 --> 00:05:10.043 be a primary source for them in 00:05:10.384 --> 00:05:11.444 musculoskeletal care, 00:05:11.745 --> 00:05:12.964 and that's in movement disorders, 00:05:12.985 --> 00:05:14.786 that's in day-to-day, 00:05:14.865 --> 00:05:17.507 whether it's someone trying to train for a 00:05:17.567 --> 00:05:20.588 race or someone that is trying to lift 00:05:20.629 --> 00:05:22.250 heavier weight because they enjoy doing it 00:05:22.269 --> 00:05:23.009 inside the gym, 00:05:23.290 --> 00:05:25.490 or is it Miss Betty that's seventy-three 00:05:25.511 --> 00:05:27.372 that just wants time with their grandkids 00:05:27.432 --> 00:05:29.112 and not feel limited in that aspect? 00:05:29.773 --> 00:05:31.915 We are skilled in a way and trained 00:05:31.954 --> 00:05:33.636 in a way that allows us to be 00:05:34.357 --> 00:05:36.259 a good impact in their lives. 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:37.620 But again, 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:39.180 this is more in a collaborative approach. 00:05:39.721 --> 00:05:42.303 We are definitely not trying to step into 00:05:42.324 --> 00:05:44.024 a realm that we're not supposed to 00:05:44.064 --> 00:05:44.925 necessarily be in. 00:05:45.627 --> 00:05:46.788 Based on our practice stack, 00:05:46.867 --> 00:05:47.708 our rules and regs, 00:05:48.149 --> 00:05:49.949 we are positioned to be able to do 00:05:49.990 --> 00:05:50.211 that, 00:05:50.451 --> 00:05:52.252 but we need to go at it as 00:05:52.271 --> 00:05:54.314 a collaborative approach so we can solve 00:05:54.334 --> 00:05:55.855 the issues in healthcare and not create 00:05:55.896 --> 00:05:56.216 new ones. 00:05:56.543 --> 00:05:57.204 All right. 00:05:57.223 --> 00:05:58.043 Well, you mentioned runners. 00:05:58.125 --> 00:05:58.785 You are a runner. 00:05:59.144 --> 00:06:01.185 And you've said that most runners aren't 00:06:01.326 --> 00:06:03.446 actually injured from running, 00:06:04.266 --> 00:06:06.627 but from everything else. 00:06:07.367 --> 00:06:09.007 Help me understand that. 00:06:09.108 --> 00:06:11.269 And what are some of the everything 00:06:11.309 --> 00:06:11.649 else's? 00:06:12.290 --> 00:06:13.410 Yeah, it's so many things. 00:06:13.430 --> 00:06:14.810 Like I said, everything's layered in life. 00:06:14.870 --> 00:06:15.630 Everything is layered. 00:06:15.690 --> 00:06:18.572 And so with running, in a sense, 00:06:18.732 --> 00:06:20.733 people always talk and I hear it all 00:06:20.752 --> 00:06:22.012 the time that running is bad for your 00:06:22.033 --> 00:06:22.293 knees. 00:06:22.353 --> 00:06:23.254 It's bad for your joints, 00:06:23.274 --> 00:06:24.213 the compression that's there. 00:06:24.574 --> 00:06:26.214 But I don't necessarily I don't subscribe 00:06:26.235 --> 00:06:26.415 to that. 00:06:26.495 --> 00:06:27.834 I don't think that's necessarily the case. 00:06:27.915 --> 00:06:29.435 I think what gets people in trouble the 00:06:29.456 --> 00:06:29.896 most that 00:06:30.396 --> 00:06:33.637 that might tend to make someone maybe more 00:06:33.757 --> 00:06:36.778 injury prone, if we can use that term, 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:41.401 is lack of strength, lack of biomechanics, 00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:43.521 functional and correct biomechanics. 00:06:44.923 --> 00:06:47.124 I would say poor sleep, poor diet, 00:06:47.543 --> 00:06:49.644 not having the right resources to then be 00:06:49.685 --> 00:06:51.625 able to create a great environment to then 00:06:51.665 --> 00:06:52.607 succeed into running. 00:06:52.966 --> 00:06:54.206 And whenever I talk about succeed into 00:06:54.247 --> 00:06:54.887 running, I mean, 00:06:55.887 --> 00:06:57.168 be able to accomplish what you want 00:06:57.249 --> 00:06:58.971 running to do for you whether it's to 00:06:59.011 --> 00:07:00.992 win races to run faster to challenge 00:07:01.012 --> 00:07:03.153 yourself to lose weight to be more healthy 00:07:03.213 --> 00:07:06.096 to make your body move to learn discipline 00:07:06.137 --> 00:07:08.738 whatever it is it needs to serve that 00:07:08.798 --> 00:07:10.521 purpose but be able to do that you 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:12.161 have to have everything else work together 00:07:12.442 --> 00:07:14.923 and so running's not the not the enemy 00:07:15.124 --> 00:07:17.245 it's everything about life that interrupts 00:07:17.266 --> 00:07:19.608 that path or does it support that path 00:07:19.788 --> 00:07:20.228 in your goals 00:07:20.771 --> 00:07:21.992 Yeah, causation correlation. 00:07:22.012 --> 00:07:23.291 We see someone run and get injured, 00:07:23.312 --> 00:07:24.112 but there's other things, 00:07:24.151 --> 00:07:25.752 and you've mentioned before, terrain, 00:07:26.052 --> 00:07:28.353 sleep, stress, load, shoes. 00:07:28.855 --> 00:07:29.274 Yep. 00:07:29.314 --> 00:07:31.435 Lots of other things in that everything 00:07:31.555 --> 00:07:34.716 else that sometimes we don't see or a 00:07:34.757 --> 00:07:37.478 clinician might not be thinking of or a 00:07:37.817 --> 00:07:38.899 runner might not be thinking of, 00:07:38.918 --> 00:07:41.000 but all those things play a part. 00:07:41.699 --> 00:07:43.180 A hundred percent. 00:07:43.221 --> 00:07:43.641 Yep. 00:07:43.701 --> 00:07:44.341 A hundred percent. 00:07:45.701 --> 00:07:47.502 It's a taboo subject if you're wearing the 00:07:47.523 --> 00:07:48.322 wrong shoes. 00:07:48.802 --> 00:07:50.863 that that can lead to injuries that is 00:07:50.923 --> 00:07:53.045 true in a sense of let's say someone 00:07:53.064 --> 00:07:54.785 gets in a shoe that drives them into 00:07:54.845 --> 00:07:56.625 more pronation that drives this medial 00:07:56.665 --> 00:07:59.706 calcaneal to to midfoot collapse that then 00:07:59.846 --> 00:08:01.908 works its way up the chain that causes 00:08:01.927 --> 00:08:03.728 a problem right and if you do that 00:08:03.848 --> 00:08:05.588 over stress and then you add terrain to 00:08:05.668 --> 00:08:09.031 it whether it's the the the natural slant 00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:11.692 that happens to pull off rain from the 00:08:11.732 --> 00:08:13.492 road or you're running on trails that you 00:08:13.531 --> 00:08:16.132 never ran on trails before you're you've 00:08:16.153 --> 00:08:16.894 got to balance 00:08:17.887 --> 00:08:21.168 all those factors and low preparation, 00:08:21.447 --> 00:08:21.708 right? 00:08:21.887 --> 00:08:24.067 And even low tolerance to as you increase 00:08:24.088 --> 00:08:24.447 the load. 00:08:24.487 --> 00:08:26.329 So having the resources to be able to 00:08:26.348 --> 00:08:27.509 do that is huge, 00:08:28.928 --> 00:08:30.829 both in a performance aspect, 00:08:30.870 --> 00:08:31.670 as well as just, 00:08:31.910 --> 00:08:33.049 I just want to get out and be 00:08:33.090 --> 00:08:33.951 healthier and happier. 00:08:34.571 --> 00:08:34.730 Yeah. 00:08:35.051 --> 00:08:35.191 Well, 00:08:35.230 --> 00:08:36.831 besides your clinical background and your 00:08:36.870 --> 00:08:38.951 education, you are a runner. 00:08:39.772 --> 00:08:42.111 How has your experience lacing them up as 00:08:42.131 --> 00:08:44.932 a runner shaped how you treat runners? 00:08:45.736 --> 00:08:46.456 Yeah, 00:08:46.636 --> 00:08:48.378 I think the biggest thing is I can 00:08:48.437 --> 00:08:49.197 speak the language. 00:08:49.317 --> 00:08:50.379 I know the terminology. 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:53.600 And I was injured quite a bit whenever 00:08:53.620 --> 00:08:54.500 I ran collegiately. 00:08:54.659 --> 00:08:56.100 Maybe don't leave with that, though. 00:08:57.041 --> 00:08:58.120 I just didn't know the knowledge. 00:08:58.660 --> 00:09:00.081 Back then, I just didn't. 00:09:01.201 --> 00:09:03.462 I wasn't trained to know what's good, 00:09:03.523 --> 00:09:04.163 what's bad. 00:09:04.482 --> 00:09:06.683 And through experience, 00:09:06.703 --> 00:09:08.044 and this happens with all of us, right? 00:09:08.085 --> 00:09:08.884 Through experience, 00:09:09.004 --> 00:09:12.086 I was able to find what works, 00:09:12.125 --> 00:09:12.725 what doesn't. 00:09:12.865 --> 00:09:14.547 And then even retrospectively, like, 00:09:15.674 --> 00:09:16.956 now that I have the knowledge that I 00:09:16.975 --> 00:09:17.336 have, 00:09:17.836 --> 00:09:19.038 I can now look back and say it's 00:09:19.078 --> 00:09:20.840 because of A, B and C, right? 00:09:21.020 --> 00:09:22.923 And this happened because I think this 00:09:22.962 --> 00:09:24.203 happened, whatever the case is. 00:09:24.803 --> 00:09:26.245 But now whenever someone comes and 00:09:26.285 --> 00:09:27.888 approaches me at the clinic or my team, 00:09:28.979 --> 00:09:29.458 They'll say, 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.100 I feel this and they'll use some obscure 00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:32.522 term. 00:09:32.581 --> 00:09:34.982 It's rarely like I hurt here very much 00:09:35.003 --> 00:09:36.443 like this with burning pain. 00:09:36.485 --> 00:09:37.125 And like, 00:09:37.164 --> 00:09:38.725 it's not this traditional what we learn in 00:09:38.765 --> 00:09:39.066 school. 00:09:39.647 --> 00:09:42.229 It's I have this obscure pain and I 00:09:42.269 --> 00:09:43.809 describe it this way based on my 00:09:43.850 --> 00:09:44.429 experiences. 00:09:44.549 --> 00:09:46.692 But because I ran and I felt that 00:09:46.751 --> 00:09:47.111 pain, 00:09:47.572 --> 00:09:49.094 I usually can navigate where they are. 00:09:49.634 --> 00:09:50.654 And then first visit, 00:09:50.875 --> 00:09:52.535 I can have them to buy in what 00:09:52.576 --> 00:09:54.616 I'm talking about and they trust what I'm 00:09:54.657 --> 00:09:55.317 saying and doing. 00:09:55.697 --> 00:09:57.178 That's bigger than almost anything. 00:09:57.599 --> 00:09:59.480 Having buy-in and trust from a person that 00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:00.581 comes in to help, 00:10:00.921 --> 00:10:02.182 they're seeking your help. 00:10:02.582 --> 00:10:04.004 If they trust me from visit one, 00:10:04.244 --> 00:10:05.825 our outcomes are going to be drastically 00:10:05.865 --> 00:10:06.164 better, 00:10:06.644 --> 00:10:08.525 especially if I have the right path early 00:10:08.626 --> 00:10:10.187 and not five visits down the road. 00:10:10.988 --> 00:10:13.389 I think the biggest thing is terminology. 00:10:15.030 --> 00:10:15.431 Plus, 00:10:16.071 --> 00:10:18.913 I go out and I run with them. 00:10:20.333 --> 00:10:21.835 We heavily support the clubs around the 00:10:21.914 --> 00:10:22.196 area. 00:10:22.615 --> 00:10:23.576 I go and I run with them. 00:10:23.657 --> 00:10:24.456 I spend time with them. 00:10:24.496 --> 00:10:26.418 They see me outside of a clinical setting. 00:10:26.859 --> 00:10:28.799 We have conversations that are not always 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:29.240 clinical. 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:30.900 We're talking about life and everything. 00:10:31.782 --> 00:10:32.802 I think that, again, 00:10:32.822 --> 00:10:35.403 just feeds the narrative of I'm here for 00:10:35.443 --> 00:10:35.684 them. 00:10:35.845 --> 00:10:36.784 I'm here to care for them. 00:10:37.044 --> 00:10:38.265 My team is there to care for them. 00:10:38.647 --> 00:10:40.227 I think that's a big thing that misses 00:10:40.268 --> 00:10:40.707 in healthcare. 00:10:41.725 --> 00:10:43.046 I wasn't planning on going this direction, 00:10:43.066 --> 00:10:45.047 but you said we support the local running 00:10:45.086 --> 00:10:46.187 clubs or running community. 00:10:46.206 --> 00:10:47.107 Yeah. 00:10:47.168 --> 00:10:47.868 How do you do that? 00:10:47.947 --> 00:10:49.408 Because I know a lot of people who 00:10:49.469 --> 00:10:51.169 either open clinics or saying we want to 00:10:51.289 --> 00:10:51.889 we want to do this. 00:10:52.230 --> 00:10:53.990 But how do you tactically do that? 00:10:54.312 --> 00:10:56.893 My guess is it's something terribly simple 00:10:56.952 --> 00:10:59.214 and basic that has a really great like 00:10:59.234 --> 00:11:00.754 you don't need to drop fifty grand. 00:11:00.875 --> 00:11:03.176 You don't need to put on your own 00:11:03.235 --> 00:11:03.475 race. 00:11:03.495 --> 00:11:04.736 You might, but you don't need to. 00:11:05.177 --> 00:11:06.717 So what does it actually look like to 00:11:06.778 --> 00:11:09.318 support a local running community so other 00:11:09.339 --> 00:11:10.759 clinicians around the country can learn? 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:12.279 I think you just get involved. 00:11:12.500 --> 00:11:13.520 You reach out to the club. 00:11:13.721 --> 00:11:15.461 We have multiple running clubs around the 00:11:15.481 --> 00:11:15.701 area. 00:11:16.841 --> 00:11:18.842 We do a lot of things, but specifically, 00:11:19.482 --> 00:11:21.364 I talk to every single club here, 00:11:22.125 --> 00:11:23.365 me personally and my team. 00:11:24.586 --> 00:11:25.745 We make it known that we just want 00:11:25.765 --> 00:11:26.005 to help. 00:11:26.025 --> 00:11:26.787 We're not replacing. 00:11:27.006 --> 00:11:27.427 We're not 00:11:27.927 --> 00:11:29.808 trying to get in it's not a turf 00:11:29.828 --> 00:11:31.889 war it is literally we have the same 00:11:32.331 --> 00:11:34.111 path that we want to do for our 00:11:34.152 --> 00:11:35.673 runners and for our community and that's 00:11:35.714 --> 00:11:38.716 to get people to love running walk around 00:11:38.735 --> 00:11:40.697 whatever their case is and to be healthier 00:11:41.018 --> 00:11:42.940 right and so if we can join as 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.160 that team and i just reach out to 00:11:44.201 --> 00:11:46.442 them i go to running events i do 00:11:46.482 --> 00:11:48.183 sponsor multiple races that are around 00:11:48.224 --> 00:11:50.086 through here we put our own race on 00:11:50.105 --> 00:11:51.267 the soma main street mile 00:11:51.807 --> 00:11:54.107 Like we're deep entrenched in that 00:11:54.128 --> 00:11:54.648 community. 00:11:55.028 --> 00:11:58.349 And then we hold our club run. 00:11:58.389 --> 00:11:59.769 So every Sunday we have a club run. 00:12:00.129 --> 00:12:01.330 We go to Track Tuesdays, 00:12:01.669 --> 00:12:03.650 which is a club run that's put on 00:12:03.691 --> 00:12:05.211 by the local clubs. 00:12:05.412 --> 00:12:07.392 Same thing for like Thursday runs. 00:12:07.732 --> 00:12:09.173 We hold Wednesday in Conway. 00:12:09.212 --> 00:12:10.754 Like we're just entrenched, 00:12:10.833 --> 00:12:12.014 but it's because we care. 00:12:12.293 --> 00:12:13.774 And I think if you truly care for 00:12:13.794 --> 00:12:14.514 the community, 00:12:14.774 --> 00:12:16.475 you'll find the paths that go on and 00:12:16.495 --> 00:12:17.515 you just have to convey that. 00:12:19.038 --> 00:12:19.860 You paid attention. 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:22.201 You paid attention enough to what they 00:12:22.241 --> 00:12:24.364 were doing and where a gap might be. 00:12:24.803 --> 00:12:28.506 And it sounds like you approached them not 00:12:28.527 --> 00:12:30.008 from a place of how do I sell 00:12:30.028 --> 00:12:30.889 them on something? 00:12:30.928 --> 00:12:32.450 How do I insert myself here? 00:12:32.811 --> 00:12:37.534 It sounds like you spoke to learn. 00:12:37.815 --> 00:12:38.615 You led to listen. 00:12:39.774 --> 00:12:41.815 And we lead to serve, right? 00:12:42.294 --> 00:12:44.274 I think that's the biggest path. 00:12:44.315 --> 00:12:45.596 We lead to serve. 00:12:45.635 --> 00:12:46.655 We're not selling stuff. 00:12:46.775 --> 00:12:49.235 I mean, I can make an argument, 00:12:49.296 --> 00:12:50.076 we're always selling. 00:12:50.136 --> 00:12:51.836 Whether I'm speaking to somebody or 00:12:51.876 --> 00:12:52.557 whatever the case is, 00:12:52.596 --> 00:12:53.437 we're selling ourself, 00:12:53.457 --> 00:12:54.857 we're selling our path, our vision, 00:12:55.238 --> 00:12:56.597 our service, whatever the case is. 00:12:56.957 --> 00:12:59.038 But it needs to be led through true 00:12:59.119 --> 00:12:59.719 servitude. 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:00.278 True, 00:13:00.619 --> 00:13:02.500 like I want to improve somebody's life 00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:04.059 because I want their life to be better. 00:13:04.580 --> 00:13:05.841 And if you hear that from me and 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:06.980 you see my authenticity, 00:13:08.299 --> 00:13:10.280 Then that's that's way better than me 00:13:10.301 --> 00:13:12.860 saying this is for low back pain. 00:13:12.980 --> 00:13:14.022 I can help your knee pain. 00:13:14.662 --> 00:13:15.642 There's no buy into that. 00:13:15.662 --> 00:13:17.163 There's no trust built into that. 00:13:17.543 --> 00:13:19.082 And so lead with servitude, 00:13:19.442 --> 00:13:22.083 show authenticity and be part of the 00:13:22.124 --> 00:13:25.304 community, not as a secondary benefit, 00:13:25.865 --> 00:13:26.966 but as a primary driver. 00:13:27.285 --> 00:13:28.385 Let me ask you this, though. 00:13:29.774 --> 00:13:31.317 And then we have to get businessy for 00:13:31.336 --> 00:13:31.797 a second. 00:13:32.357 --> 00:13:34.840 And that feels icky for some clinicians 00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:37.543 because we're blue. 00:13:38.203 --> 00:13:39.065 All we do is want love, 00:13:39.085 --> 00:13:39.785 want to give it away. 00:13:40.586 --> 00:13:42.467 How long did it take for you to 00:13:42.508 --> 00:13:43.730 see a return on investment? 00:13:43.889 --> 00:13:46.192 As in, now we can do money, 00:13:46.613 --> 00:13:47.394 we can measure, right? 00:13:47.413 --> 00:13:49.054 Because business goals are goals too. 00:13:49.235 --> 00:13:51.197 And if you don't measure, you don't grow. 00:13:51.258 --> 00:13:51.477 Yeah. 00:13:52.557 --> 00:13:54.620 Let's do a business KPI like, hey, 00:13:54.681 --> 00:13:55.481 we broke even. 00:13:55.662 --> 00:13:57.304 We made money on this and now we're 00:13:57.345 --> 00:13:58.145 able to reinvest. 00:13:58.625 --> 00:14:01.330 Or let's do the warm and fuzzy. 00:14:01.590 --> 00:14:03.312 When did you start to feel like this 00:14:03.332 --> 00:14:03.753 is a thing? 00:14:04.193 --> 00:14:04.975 Let's do both of those. 00:14:05.095 --> 00:14:06.697 When did it start to break even or 00:14:07.138 --> 00:14:09.320 make ROI positive? 00:14:10.530 --> 00:14:12.092 I think that is a variable thing. 00:14:12.712 --> 00:14:16.576 There's some months and even quarters that 00:14:16.615 --> 00:14:17.697 we make more than others. 00:14:17.998 --> 00:14:19.118 There's times that we lose. 00:14:19.499 --> 00:14:20.298 Welcome to life, baby. 00:14:20.318 --> 00:14:22.620 Yeah. 00:14:22.721 --> 00:14:23.422 It's a give and take. 00:14:24.022 --> 00:14:25.724 I think if you look solely, 00:14:25.744 --> 00:14:28.426 and I've only owned Blue Rose and Blue 00:14:28.446 --> 00:14:29.246 Rose Running for... 00:14:30.134 --> 00:14:31.835 Four years, a little over four years. 00:14:32.235 --> 00:14:33.995 So I'm I'm a novice in all sense 00:14:34.056 --> 00:14:35.475 of the form of running a business. 00:14:35.535 --> 00:14:35.755 Right. 00:14:36.456 --> 00:14:37.657 What I do well, 00:14:37.856 --> 00:14:39.357 I think I do well is communicate well 00:14:39.577 --> 00:14:43.719 and I show authenticity and I'm OK going 00:14:43.739 --> 00:14:45.480 through the ebbs and flows of what's going 00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:45.860 to happen. 00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:46.320 Right. 00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:48.581 And so everything's not a return on 00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:49.341 investment for me. 00:14:49.662 --> 00:14:50.802 It's a return on impact. 00:14:51.182 --> 00:14:51.381 Right. 00:14:51.601 --> 00:14:52.523 We make the money like that. 00:14:53.283 --> 00:14:54.563 Yep, we make the money work. 00:14:55.144 --> 00:14:56.205 You still have to look at the bottom 00:14:56.245 --> 00:14:56.445 line. 00:14:56.784 --> 00:15:00.346 I am still responsible to pay for my 00:15:00.386 --> 00:15:01.187 employees lives. 00:15:01.206 --> 00:15:02.727 They still have to raise their kids. 00:15:02.768 --> 00:15:04.269 They still have to go and live their 00:15:04.308 --> 00:15:04.589 life. 00:15:04.948 --> 00:15:06.269 I still have to support that path. 00:15:07.062 --> 00:15:08.962 But in the same notion, 00:15:09.003 --> 00:15:10.884 if everything is a transaction, 00:15:11.144 --> 00:15:12.524 that's how healthcare is built right now. 00:15:12.544 --> 00:15:13.566 And I do not agree with it. 00:15:13.666 --> 00:15:15.246 If everything is a transaction, 00:15:15.626 --> 00:15:16.886 like I do this, you do this. 00:15:17.347 --> 00:15:19.168 That is not how life is in any 00:15:19.229 --> 00:15:20.149 form of aspect. 00:15:20.328 --> 00:15:21.769 That's not how life needs to be. 00:15:22.289 --> 00:15:24.432 And so I go look on a return 00:15:24.471 --> 00:15:25.091 on impact. 00:15:25.351 --> 00:15:26.133 What's our impact? 00:15:26.812 --> 00:15:29.134 What's happening on the basis of what 00:15:29.153 --> 00:15:29.735 we're trying to do? 00:15:30.554 --> 00:15:32.216 And then is the money supporting that? 00:15:32.235 --> 00:15:33.777 And then how can we create a system 00:15:34.076 --> 00:15:36.099 that both is we have to make money 00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:37.479 in a sense to have an impact? 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.461 That's that's the fuel of what we need 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:39.821 to do. 00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:41.422 If we don't take into that, 00:15:41.481 --> 00:15:42.682 I'll be out of business and then I 00:15:42.702 --> 00:15:43.562 can't make any impact. 00:15:43.623 --> 00:15:43.844 Right. 00:15:44.884 --> 00:15:46.565 But if we can focus on the impact, 00:15:46.625 --> 00:15:48.245 make the money work and then create the 00:15:48.306 --> 00:15:49.407 system to cultivate, 00:15:49.706 --> 00:15:51.928 I think in years we win both on 00:15:51.989 --> 00:15:53.470 a business standpoint and an impact 00:15:53.490 --> 00:15:53.850 standpoint. 00:15:54.258 --> 00:15:55.278 I didn't think we were going to get 00:15:55.318 --> 00:15:56.120 that deep at that. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:57.400 I thought the question was all right, 00:15:57.441 --> 00:15:58.981 but you made it great. 00:15:59.402 --> 00:16:00.082 That's a new KPI. 00:16:00.123 --> 00:16:01.364 People are going to be writing. 00:16:01.984 --> 00:16:03.645 I can hear the audience scribbling out 00:16:03.686 --> 00:16:03.865 there. 00:16:04.066 --> 00:16:05.866 ROI, return on impact. 00:16:05.907 --> 00:16:06.447 That's great. 00:16:06.467 --> 00:16:09.870 Yeah, that's just something that feeds me, 00:16:09.889 --> 00:16:10.650 so I'm excited about it. 00:16:10.831 --> 00:16:11.991 That's great. 00:16:12.011 --> 00:16:15.835 That's awesome. 00:16:15.955 --> 00:16:16.054 Yeah. 00:16:16.095 --> 00:16:16.596 Quick break. 00:16:16.635 --> 00:16:18.657 Looking for an EMR that won't make you 00:16:18.677 --> 00:16:20.438 want to throw your laptop across the room? 00:16:21.095 --> 00:16:22.898 Check out Empower EMR. 00:16:23.178 --> 00:16:26.325 Simple, smart, and built just for PTs. 00:16:26.384 --> 00:16:29.529 Learn more at empoweremr.com. 00:16:29.570 --> 00:16:30.711 I can already hear the title of the 00:16:30.753 --> 00:16:31.553 episode, Logan. 00:16:32.075 --> 00:16:33.197 ROI, return on impact. 00:16:33.681 --> 00:16:34.541 I don't know. 00:16:34.801 --> 00:16:36.121 It's a leader in the clubhouse right now 00:16:36.182 --> 00:16:37.201 for the name of the episode. 00:16:38.202 --> 00:16:40.082 Let's take a little bit of a detour. 00:16:40.102 --> 00:16:41.864 You talk a lot about high value, 00:16:42.443 --> 00:16:43.684 low cost care. 00:16:44.445 --> 00:16:45.644 But what does that look like? 00:16:45.684 --> 00:16:47.566 I feel like that's a term we've talked 00:16:47.586 --> 00:16:49.047 about since it's been on Twitter or 00:16:49.106 --> 00:16:50.346 LinkedIn, wherever you're on there, 00:16:50.647 --> 00:16:52.028 thrown around our profession a lot. 00:16:52.347 --> 00:16:54.187 But what does that look like at Blue 00:16:54.249 --> 00:16:54.729 Rose? 00:16:54.928 --> 00:16:56.288 What does that look like in your clinic 00:16:56.349 --> 00:16:56.629 model? 00:16:56.749 --> 00:16:58.190 High value, low cost. 00:16:59.203 --> 00:17:02.304 So I think at a micro level, 00:17:02.504 --> 00:17:03.644 like our clinic, 00:17:04.265 --> 00:17:07.226 it's difficult to have a low cost with 00:17:07.246 --> 00:17:10.547 high value with how our current model is 00:17:10.567 --> 00:17:11.366 set up, right? 00:17:11.406 --> 00:17:13.968 We're trying things that are unique to the 00:17:14.008 --> 00:17:16.689 space that are against traditional 00:17:16.749 --> 00:17:17.828 modeling of insurance, 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:19.690 but that does become difficult. 00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:21.309 I think that's a macro problem. 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:23.871 I think that's a macro path that needs 00:17:23.891 --> 00:17:24.391 to happen. 00:17:24.931 --> 00:17:28.071 And so in that sense, 00:17:28.852 --> 00:17:31.432 i think pts are in a unique position 00:17:31.472 --> 00:17:35.094 both in our skill set and in um 00:17:35.153 --> 00:17:37.615 how we are set up inside of healthcare 00:17:37.994 --> 00:17:40.615 we're in a unique position to help that 00:17:40.715 --> 00:17:44.056 high value at low cost right we can 00:17:44.116 --> 00:17:47.257 help save money throughout the system we 00:17:47.297 --> 00:17:50.077 can provide excellent care because that's 00:17:50.097 --> 00:17:51.558 how we're trained to do in neuromuscular 00:17:51.578 --> 00:17:52.259 skeletal care 00:17:52.778 --> 00:17:54.500 We are trained specifically into that, 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:56.741 both on special tests, both on treatment, 00:17:57.102 --> 00:18:00.463 diagnosis and pushing red flags out and 00:18:00.505 --> 00:18:02.465 any concerns that we need to refer out. 00:18:03.105 --> 00:18:04.186 We are able to do that. 00:18:04.747 --> 00:18:07.288 And so we can do that and save 00:18:07.308 --> 00:18:08.349 the health care community. 00:18:09.008 --> 00:18:10.749 costs of everything going on. 00:18:10.808 --> 00:18:12.830 And they've shown in the military aspect. 00:18:13.131 --> 00:18:15.673 PTs are lead providers for musculoskeletal 00:18:15.712 --> 00:18:18.275 care in the military, right? 00:18:18.555 --> 00:18:20.796 And there's studies and models that show 00:18:21.237 --> 00:18:23.597 we save the system money, which is great. 00:18:24.419 --> 00:18:25.720 If we can provide great care, 00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:28.122 great outcomes, get people back faster, 00:18:28.561 --> 00:18:29.782 and we can help them through their 00:18:29.823 --> 00:18:31.064 continuum of life, 00:18:31.624 --> 00:18:34.284 while saving the system money i think that 00:18:34.324 --> 00:18:35.984 is at least part of a solution that 00:18:36.005 --> 00:18:38.085 is there um and we just got to 00:18:38.105 --> 00:18:39.545 keep voicing that and again this is 00:18:39.565 --> 00:18:41.605 through collaboration uh not through 00:18:41.625 --> 00:18:44.746 replacement i think that if we can find 00:18:44.885 --> 00:18:46.946 our path in the system we can help 00:18:46.967 --> 00:18:48.586 the system and the people that are in 00:18:48.626 --> 00:18:51.827 it love that uh talking right to the 00:18:51.867 --> 00:18:54.708 new pt think back to uh twenty fourteen 00:18:55.367 --> 00:18:58.048 logan pts who aren't sure what kind of 00:18:58.088 --> 00:18:59.368 clinician they want to be yet 00:19:00.439 --> 00:19:01.799 I asked this question just a couple days 00:19:01.819 --> 00:19:04.622 ago on LinkedIn and got some great 00:19:04.662 --> 00:19:07.384 responses, also some trash responses like, 00:19:07.463 --> 00:19:08.404 don't join the profession. 00:19:08.505 --> 00:19:11.366 I'm like, all right, that's valid. 00:19:11.386 --> 00:19:12.508 But what advice would you give to a 00:19:12.548 --> 00:19:14.189 new PT who isn't sure yet what kind 00:19:14.209 --> 00:19:15.650 of clinician they want to be? 00:19:16.604 --> 00:19:19.546 Yeah, I think get as involved as possible, 00:19:19.786 --> 00:19:20.047 right? 00:19:20.126 --> 00:19:21.988 Have as many experiences within the 00:19:22.048 --> 00:19:22.969 profession as possible. 00:19:23.709 --> 00:19:25.191 You don't know what you love until you 00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:25.851 experience it. 00:19:26.652 --> 00:19:28.333 And what gives you the warm and fuzzies? 00:19:28.813 --> 00:19:31.714 What's gonna lead you into having passion 00:19:31.736 --> 00:19:32.596 towards that subject? 00:19:32.915 --> 00:19:34.897 Not a paycheck, we have to make money, 00:19:35.178 --> 00:19:36.858 but what leads you to a passion? 00:19:36.898 --> 00:19:38.381 What leads you to something that gets you 00:19:38.421 --> 00:19:38.941 fired up, 00:19:39.020 --> 00:19:41.502 that fills you up and that you wanna 00:19:41.542 --> 00:19:42.262 give to others? 00:19:42.703 --> 00:19:44.144 Once you find that and then you can 00:19:44.164 --> 00:19:45.026 make money in that, 00:19:45.685 --> 00:19:47.027 You're living the dream, right? 00:19:47.426 --> 00:19:49.509 And then whether you're a key player in 00:19:49.548 --> 00:19:51.230 the clinic or you're a leader in the 00:19:51.270 --> 00:19:53.112 field, it doesn't necessarily matter. 00:19:53.231 --> 00:19:54.153 All of it needs it. 00:19:54.432 --> 00:19:55.814 You just got to find what works best 00:19:55.834 --> 00:19:57.576 for your life, your path, 00:19:58.056 --> 00:19:59.436 and then what fuels you. 00:19:59.958 --> 00:20:01.439 And now that has to still balance with 00:20:01.459 --> 00:20:02.199 the rest of your life. 00:20:02.239 --> 00:20:04.181 So it's all very individualistic. 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:05.961 But my main goal would be find your 00:20:05.982 --> 00:20:06.482 passions, 00:20:06.702 --> 00:20:08.865 create something around that in the PT 00:20:08.884 --> 00:20:09.224 field, 00:20:10.246 --> 00:20:11.767 and then experience as much as you can 00:20:11.787 --> 00:20:13.608 because you might be surprised with what 00:20:13.648 --> 00:20:14.970 you actually really love and enjoy. 00:20:15.478 --> 00:20:16.219 Yeah, this is the, 00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:17.179 have you heard of the, 00:20:17.239 --> 00:20:18.640 you're sort of reiterating this thing, 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:19.601 maybe you've never heard of it, 00:20:19.621 --> 00:20:20.942 but have you ever heard of the Japanese 00:20:21.942 --> 00:20:22.643 Aiki guy? 00:20:22.782 --> 00:20:24.964 I'm probably saying it wrong one way, 00:20:24.984 --> 00:20:25.325 not the other. 00:20:25.665 --> 00:20:26.385 So essentially, 00:20:26.806 --> 00:20:27.967 and I bring this graphic up, 00:20:28.007 --> 00:20:29.048 not because I was ready, 00:20:29.367 --> 00:20:30.788 but because I have the graphic so ready 00:20:30.808 --> 00:20:32.210 because I talk about it with people that 00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:33.651 I help communicate, 00:20:34.211 --> 00:20:35.011 and it looks like this. 00:20:35.173 --> 00:20:36.894 So it's just four circles that connect for 00:20:36.913 --> 00:20:37.934 the podcast audience, 00:20:38.275 --> 00:20:40.517 and they really just are what you love, 00:20:41.156 --> 00:20:43.259 what the world needs, what you're good at, 00:20:44.019 --> 00:20:45.200 and what you can get paid for. 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:46.839 And that last one, for some reason, 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:48.941 bothers people in health care. 00:20:49.040 --> 00:20:51.261 Well, you know, we can't make sure. 00:20:51.721 --> 00:20:52.741 But at the same token, 00:20:53.962 --> 00:20:54.742 they'll say we're underpaid. 00:20:54.762 --> 00:20:56.923 And I'm saying then those things need to 00:20:56.943 --> 00:20:57.284 be met, 00:20:57.304 --> 00:20:58.605 because if you can't get paid for it, 00:20:58.625 --> 00:20:59.585 but the other three are hit, 00:20:59.845 --> 00:21:00.464 you have a really, 00:21:00.506 --> 00:21:01.385 really great hobby 00:21:02.037 --> 00:21:03.778 that you're investing in but if this is 00:21:03.798 --> 00:21:04.818 going to be something you can dedicate 00:21:04.838 --> 00:21:06.500 your life to it's got to bring some 00:21:06.560 --> 00:21:08.741 return on investment so you can support 00:21:08.761 --> 00:21:10.963 yourself for summary i'm trying really 00:21:10.983 --> 00:21:12.224 hard to beat that out of the profession 00:21:12.244 --> 00:21:14.826 which is you can do great stuff and 00:21:14.866 --> 00:21:17.308 make money and reinvest some of that money 00:21:17.328 --> 00:21:18.849 into doing more great stuff and support 00:21:18.869 --> 00:21:20.330 your family because that's what we're all 00:21:20.351 --> 00:21:20.672 here for 00:21:21.330 --> 00:21:21.530 Yep. 00:21:21.611 --> 00:21:23.050 I couldn't agree more. 00:21:23.070 --> 00:21:24.632 Sounds like you understand Ikigai without 00:21:24.672 --> 00:21:25.892 ever actually seeing it. 00:21:25.991 --> 00:21:27.531 I'm going to look it up. 00:21:27.551 --> 00:21:28.332 Those four things. 00:21:28.511 --> 00:21:30.112 And where they cross in the middle, 00:21:30.532 --> 00:21:32.633 that's what Ikigai is. 00:21:33.012 --> 00:21:34.093 It's reason for being. 00:21:34.133 --> 00:21:35.732 That's what the actual term means. 00:21:36.253 --> 00:21:37.453 When you've found that, 00:21:37.673 --> 00:21:39.374 you can sort of see it in a 00:21:39.433 --> 00:21:40.973 person's face, whether they're a plumber, 00:21:41.054 --> 00:21:43.494 an electrician, a physical therapist. 00:21:43.755 --> 00:21:44.454 It doesn't matter. 00:21:44.474 --> 00:21:45.355 When you can see it, 00:21:45.375 --> 00:21:47.494 they're totally at peace because they're 00:21:47.515 --> 00:21:49.056 in the middle of those four things. 00:21:49.355 --> 00:21:50.435 And it gets real unique there. 00:21:51.207 --> 00:21:52.086 Yeah, I love it. 00:21:52.106 --> 00:21:52.188 Yeah, 00:21:52.208 --> 00:21:53.288 I'm going to look it up after this, 00:21:53.307 --> 00:21:53.407 too. 00:21:53.428 --> 00:21:54.568 I haven't heard of that. 00:21:54.588 --> 00:21:55.489 I like the concept. 00:21:55.509 --> 00:21:58.009 All right. 00:21:58.069 --> 00:22:01.132 So let's do a hot take moment. 00:22:01.152 --> 00:22:02.692 All right. 00:22:02.751 --> 00:22:05.252 So I want you to break down how 00:22:05.272 --> 00:22:08.174 you talk to someone who sits in front 00:22:08.194 --> 00:22:11.215 of you and says, I'm hurt from running. 00:22:11.415 --> 00:22:12.696 We talked about before that... 00:22:13.450 --> 00:22:14.029 You know, running, 00:22:14.309 --> 00:22:15.750 you're actually injured from other things. 00:22:16.030 --> 00:22:17.510 But how do you actually tactically 00:22:17.550 --> 00:22:18.511 communicate that? 00:22:18.771 --> 00:22:20.511 Because it sounds like you might have to 00:22:20.551 --> 00:22:25.334 do some unlearning or guiding towards a 00:22:25.394 --> 00:22:26.854 different idea to get that person to at 00:22:26.894 --> 00:22:29.714 least be opening open to hear your 00:22:29.855 --> 00:22:30.954 different point of view. 00:22:31.355 --> 00:22:32.536 How do you do that with someone? 00:22:33.798 --> 00:22:34.339 It's tough. 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:34.859 Yeah. 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:36.221 But to me, 00:22:36.602 --> 00:22:38.202 it's on the basis of do they trust 00:22:38.222 --> 00:22:38.383 you? 00:22:39.002 --> 00:22:40.183 Everything is under the basis. 00:22:40.243 --> 00:22:41.204 I go back to it often. 00:22:41.244 --> 00:22:44.027 But if they trust you and they see 00:22:44.167 --> 00:22:45.429 and they feel what you're saying, 00:22:45.929 --> 00:22:48.211 I do believe they're more open and 00:22:48.270 --> 00:22:48.750 receptive. 00:22:49.251 --> 00:22:51.553 If I sound like every other person that 00:22:51.574 --> 00:22:52.794 they've come in contact with, 00:22:53.174 --> 00:22:54.336 they're not going to trust me. 00:22:54.816 --> 00:22:57.498 If I go through the same script of 00:22:57.557 --> 00:22:57.999 like, well, 00:22:59.115 --> 00:23:00.977 Tell me what's hurting you, okay? 00:23:01.196 --> 00:23:03.337 Can you move your knee like this, okay? 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:05.339 Well, I think blah, blah, blah, right? 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.780 I have to build a rapport. 00:23:07.141 --> 00:23:10.163 I have to understand what their driver is, 00:23:10.323 --> 00:23:12.704 both at a musculoskeletal level as well as 00:23:13.005 --> 00:23:14.205 their life, right? 00:23:14.926 --> 00:23:16.307 They're not this person with knee pain. 00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:19.010 They're this person that has their life, 00:23:19.070 --> 00:23:20.050 their reason for running, 00:23:20.191 --> 00:23:23.031 or let's say it's someone's back pain and 00:23:23.051 --> 00:23:25.051 they're not able to do things that make 00:23:25.071 --> 00:23:26.313 them feel valuable, right? 00:23:26.393 --> 00:23:27.792 And they're led through value and they 00:23:27.833 --> 00:23:29.614 want to be able to lift their kids 00:23:29.653 --> 00:23:30.433 up or they want to be able to 00:23:30.453 --> 00:23:31.294 do this job at work. 00:23:31.334 --> 00:23:32.194 Whatever the case is, 00:23:32.375 --> 00:23:34.095 I have to find out that first. 00:23:34.714 --> 00:23:35.816 Once I find that out, 00:23:35.955 --> 00:23:38.116 once I understand them as a whole, 00:23:38.477 --> 00:23:39.957 not as an injury, but as a whole, 00:23:40.576 --> 00:23:42.238 and then I start plucking away like, hey, 00:23:43.336 --> 00:23:43.656 Running, 00:23:44.518 --> 00:23:46.740 it actually increases the conjoined in 00:23:46.780 --> 00:23:49.462 your knee. 00:23:49.502 --> 00:23:51.105 That's not necessarily the detriments, 00:23:51.125 --> 00:23:52.326 the biomechanics around it. 00:23:52.405 --> 00:23:53.487 It's this collapse that could be 00:23:53.527 --> 00:23:53.788 happening. 00:23:53.827 --> 00:23:54.868 Whatever the case is, 00:23:54.969 --> 00:23:56.450 it's all very individualistic. 00:23:56.851 --> 00:23:57.230 But first, 00:23:57.250 --> 00:23:58.853 I have to dig into them first, 00:23:59.133 --> 00:24:01.414 find what their driver is at whatever 00:24:01.555 --> 00:24:02.876 aspect they're coming in for. 00:24:03.416 --> 00:24:04.838 Then the musculoskeletal driver, 00:24:04.878 --> 00:24:05.578 find the problem. 00:24:06.380 --> 00:24:07.881 and then marry those together and create 00:24:07.901 --> 00:24:08.501 this story. 00:24:08.521 --> 00:24:10.103 And then if you create the story, 00:24:10.943 --> 00:24:11.784 then you can, 00:24:12.163 --> 00:24:13.645 I think you can actually change their 00:24:13.685 --> 00:24:14.226 perception. 00:24:14.445 --> 00:24:15.787 It's almost as if the body and the 00:24:15.826 --> 00:24:16.968 mind are connected, Logan. 00:24:18.568 --> 00:24:19.150 It's crazy. 00:24:19.569 --> 00:24:20.510 It's a crazy concept. 00:24:21.246 --> 00:24:22.205 Which is amazing. 00:24:24.086 --> 00:24:25.948 People always advocate on LinkedIn or 00:24:25.988 --> 00:24:28.367 Twitter for changing the syllabus in PT 00:24:28.407 --> 00:24:28.628 school. 00:24:28.828 --> 00:24:30.989 It is amazing that we have essentially one 00:24:31.048 --> 00:24:32.509 prerequisite for psychology, 00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:36.211 except every single human we talk about. 00:24:36.711 --> 00:24:37.971 We're really in the behavior change 00:24:38.011 --> 00:24:38.471 business. 00:24:38.592 --> 00:24:39.751 I'm not saying throw out anatomy, 00:24:39.811 --> 00:24:41.053 physiology, ortho, neuro. 00:24:41.133 --> 00:24:41.932 Don't throw any of it out. 00:24:42.853 --> 00:24:44.013 But this whole brain thing, 00:24:44.114 --> 00:24:44.973 I think it's a thing, Logan. 00:24:44.993 --> 00:24:45.894 I think that's what you're saying. 00:24:45.934 --> 00:24:46.914 It sounds like it's a thing. 00:24:47.535 --> 00:24:48.336 At least part of it. 00:24:48.455 --> 00:24:49.497 Yeah, it's part of it. 00:24:49.517 --> 00:24:50.919 Yeah, it's a huge thing. 00:24:51.138 --> 00:24:53.260 It's a huge thing for someone that has 00:24:53.320 --> 00:24:56.124 maybe been conditioned to think a certain 00:24:56.164 --> 00:24:58.727 way, whether it's fear, fear avoidance, 00:24:58.747 --> 00:25:00.269 because someone said they had the worst 00:25:00.288 --> 00:25:01.230 back they've ever seen. 00:25:01.250 --> 00:25:01.851 Right. 00:25:02.030 --> 00:25:04.594 Or they have that that set up to 00:25:04.673 --> 00:25:07.717 just then destroy their confidence and 00:25:07.757 --> 00:25:08.096 movement. 00:25:08.678 --> 00:25:10.038 And then you have to unbury that. 00:25:10.058 --> 00:25:11.680 And it might be fifteen years before they 00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:12.361 see a PT. 00:25:12.961 --> 00:25:14.741 Instead of seeing a PT first and be 00:25:14.801 --> 00:25:16.624 able to go and create movement patterns, 00:25:16.884 --> 00:25:18.984 find the driver, move this way. 00:25:19.465 --> 00:25:20.645 It's fifteen years down the road. 00:25:20.665 --> 00:25:21.547 They've kind of dealt with it. 00:25:21.586 --> 00:25:21.707 Well, 00:25:21.767 --> 00:25:24.269 now they are conditioned to feel that pain 00:25:24.308 --> 00:25:25.128 in certain ways, 00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:26.871 whether it's increased intensity, 00:25:27.310 --> 00:25:29.352 the times that it comes on or the 00:25:29.392 --> 00:25:31.034 fear avoidance associated with it. 00:25:31.074 --> 00:25:33.174 Whatever the case is, they're conditioned. 00:25:33.194 --> 00:25:34.435 We're all conditioned certain ways. 00:25:34.675 --> 00:25:35.596 They're conditioned that way. 00:25:35.616 --> 00:25:37.077 And then we have to unravel that. 00:25:37.518 --> 00:25:39.739 That takes time, but most importantly, 00:25:39.778 --> 00:25:40.459 it takes trust. 00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:41.900 That's relationship build. 00:25:42.380 --> 00:25:43.780 All right, Logan, it's game time. 00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:44.221 Are you ready? 00:25:44.701 --> 00:25:45.102 I'm ready. 00:25:45.201 --> 00:25:50.044 All right, 00:25:50.064 --> 00:25:52.384 we're playing Run It or Rethink It. 00:25:52.464 --> 00:25:53.586 That's what this segment is called. 00:25:53.605 --> 00:25:55.826 I'm going to throw out some common beliefs 00:25:55.866 --> 00:25:58.708 in running, physical therapy, rehab, 00:25:58.728 --> 00:25:59.148 whatever. 00:25:59.729 --> 00:26:00.868 Your only two options. 00:26:01.170 --> 00:26:01.950 Should we run with it? 00:26:02.653 --> 00:26:03.836 Or should we rethink it? 00:26:03.976 --> 00:26:04.718 And then you can give me a little 00:26:04.758 --> 00:26:05.798 color while we're doing that. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.463 So first up on running to rethink it 00:26:08.825 --> 00:26:10.547 stretching before a run. 00:26:10.688 --> 00:26:12.391 I'm curious because I never did this. 00:26:13.615 --> 00:26:14.816 Yeah, rethink it. 00:26:14.895 --> 00:26:15.395 Yeah. 00:26:16.196 --> 00:26:17.076 And it depends. 00:26:17.657 --> 00:26:18.817 And we can go over it later. 00:26:19.239 --> 00:26:20.519 It depends if we're talking about static 00:26:20.538 --> 00:26:21.059 or dynamic. 00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.760 I would assume maybe in relation to 00:26:23.780 --> 00:26:24.821 whatever someone thinks stretching, 00:26:24.842 --> 00:26:25.742 they think static. 00:26:26.063 --> 00:26:26.262 Correct. 00:26:26.282 --> 00:26:27.022 Definitely rethink it. 00:26:27.503 --> 00:26:29.585 This is me before every beer league men's 00:26:29.625 --> 00:26:32.366 hockey game watching my forty, fifty, 00:26:32.467 --> 00:26:33.768 sixty year old teammates. 00:26:34.625 --> 00:26:36.085 with the leg up on the board up 00:26:36.105 --> 00:26:37.105 to their, and I'm just like, 00:26:37.405 --> 00:26:38.786 I can tell you that that's a bad 00:26:38.865 --> 00:26:39.726 idea, but I'm going to wave. 00:26:40.067 --> 00:26:41.586 I, you know, I, where do I insert? 00:26:41.626 --> 00:26:43.086 I'm a teammate, not as PT. 00:26:43.146 --> 00:26:44.607 So, uh, by the way, 00:26:44.728 --> 00:26:46.268 I'm all for dynamic warmup. 00:26:46.468 --> 00:26:48.108 I'm the guy jumping around and getting 00:26:48.148 --> 00:26:49.489 warm and getting hot, but yeah, 00:26:49.528 --> 00:26:50.369 stretching never did it. 00:26:50.710 --> 00:26:51.309 How about this one? 00:26:51.569 --> 00:26:53.711 Running shoes past three hundred miles. 00:26:53.830 --> 00:26:57.231 Run with it or rethink it. 00:26:57.271 --> 00:26:58.291 Yeah, I think, uh, 00:27:00.358 --> 00:27:01.539 That was tough because there's so many 00:27:01.579 --> 00:27:02.000 models. 00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:04.342 You can always say, yeah, 00:27:04.382 --> 00:27:05.623 this is a physical therapy podcast. 00:27:05.643 --> 00:27:06.262 You can always pull out. 00:27:06.304 --> 00:27:06.784 It depends. 00:27:07.064 --> 00:27:07.865 Yeah. 00:27:07.984 --> 00:27:08.325 Yeah. 00:27:08.345 --> 00:27:09.306 I would say rethink it. 00:27:09.506 --> 00:27:10.747 There's, but there's different models. 00:27:10.767 --> 00:27:11.086 There's some, 00:27:11.166 --> 00:27:12.407 I would run up into the five hundred 00:27:12.428 --> 00:27:12.688 range. 00:27:13.048 --> 00:27:13.909 Yeah. 00:27:14.009 --> 00:27:15.911 Uh, let's do two more, uh, 00:27:16.711 --> 00:27:17.491 run to rethink it. 00:27:17.511 --> 00:27:18.732 Pain means stop running. 00:27:19.690 --> 00:27:20.611 Rethink it. 00:27:20.671 --> 00:27:21.030 Hey, why? 00:27:22.031 --> 00:27:26.355 Because pain can it all depends on what 00:27:26.395 --> 00:27:27.636 their conditioning has been. 00:27:27.916 --> 00:27:28.198 Right. 00:27:28.298 --> 00:27:29.519 Sometimes people feel pain, 00:27:29.538 --> 00:27:30.539 but that's just discomfort. 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:32.340 That's just the stresses of running. 00:27:32.442 --> 00:27:34.143 And it depends what your running cycle is. 00:27:34.482 --> 00:27:36.605 If you're a marathoner at eighty miles a 00:27:36.644 --> 00:27:38.727 week and you're six weeks into your 00:27:38.747 --> 00:27:39.107 training. 00:27:39.982 --> 00:27:40.583 You're going to hurt. 00:27:40.923 --> 00:27:41.183 Right. 00:27:41.844 --> 00:27:43.023 And a lot of times we can come 00:27:43.104 --> 00:27:43.243 in. 00:27:43.403 --> 00:27:48.086 Let's say you're just a you're a general 00:27:48.125 --> 00:27:49.346 runner that's going and running twenty 00:27:49.366 --> 00:27:51.208 miles a week just for fitness and you're 00:27:51.228 --> 00:27:52.587 having a pain. 00:27:53.048 --> 00:27:54.348 Well, it depends where that pain is, 00:27:54.568 --> 00:27:55.388 what's causing it. 00:27:55.769 --> 00:27:57.549 And if we can make some biomechanical 00:27:57.569 --> 00:27:59.151 changes where we just shorten your stride 00:27:59.171 --> 00:28:00.810 length or we just increase your cadence or 00:28:00.851 --> 00:28:02.731 we we change the load in some way 00:28:02.811 --> 00:28:04.032 and then start you on a program. 00:28:04.752 --> 00:28:05.854 You can keep your running. 00:28:05.874 --> 00:28:07.054 We just might have to change some of 00:28:07.074 --> 00:28:07.755 the intensities. 00:28:07.994 --> 00:28:08.515 It's definitely an, 00:28:09.394 --> 00:28:10.576 it's not an all or none kind of 00:28:10.596 --> 00:28:10.855 thing. 00:28:11.316 --> 00:28:12.757 We just make some adjustments and you're 00:28:12.777 --> 00:28:13.396 guided that way. 00:28:13.837 --> 00:28:15.258 So definitely rethink it. 00:28:15.278 --> 00:28:17.138 Last one we'll do on running to rethink 00:28:17.179 --> 00:28:17.259 it. 00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:20.701 Gate analysis for every runner. 00:28:21.020 --> 00:28:22.501 Run it, rethink it. 00:28:23.430 --> 00:28:24.830 Rethink it. 00:28:24.891 --> 00:28:26.492 I think it's very useful for a lot 00:28:26.532 --> 00:28:26.972 of runners, 00:28:27.814 --> 00:28:29.095 but I don't think it's for everybody 00:28:29.275 --> 00:28:33.518 because there are people that have unique 00:28:33.557 --> 00:28:37.000 gait cycles that are very efficient and 00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:39.002 look great and they have no pain. 00:28:39.163 --> 00:28:41.444 So there's no need to change their stress 00:28:41.484 --> 00:28:44.247 load if there is no long-term risk for 00:28:44.287 --> 00:28:45.868 that. 00:28:45.888 --> 00:28:46.888 So not everybody, 00:28:46.929 --> 00:28:48.411 but I think a good amount would benefit 00:28:48.451 --> 00:28:48.671 from it. 00:28:49.595 --> 00:28:51.476 Our professors will be excited because 00:28:51.496 --> 00:28:52.135 that was a trick. 00:28:52.236 --> 00:28:53.696 Every time you see always or never, 00:28:53.757 --> 00:28:54.836 that's usually, 00:28:54.856 --> 00:28:56.778 I shouldn't say always a red flag, 00:28:56.798 --> 00:28:59.318 but usually a red flag that the answer 00:28:59.358 --> 00:29:00.058 is not always. 00:29:00.078 --> 00:29:01.400 All right, 00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.020 last thing we do on the episode, Logan, 00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:04.040 is called the parting shot. 00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:05.862 Today it's brought to you by our friends 00:29:05.882 --> 00:29:06.902 at Go Baby Go. 00:29:07.281 --> 00:29:09.442 That's the crew that mods toy cars so 00:29:09.462 --> 00:29:11.324 kids with mobility challenges can tear 00:29:11.403 --> 00:29:13.144 around like absolute legends. 00:29:13.224 --> 00:29:14.285 Mobility should be fun. 00:29:14.704 --> 00:29:15.486 They make it happen. 00:29:15.526 --> 00:29:16.125 You can too. 00:29:16.566 --> 00:29:18.126 Learn more at Go Baby Go. 00:29:18.867 --> 00:29:19.829 All right. 00:29:20.230 --> 00:29:20.832 Parting shot. 00:29:20.971 --> 00:29:23.036 Your last chance for mic drop moment. 00:29:23.395 --> 00:29:24.377 Soapbox statement. 00:29:24.858 --> 00:29:26.402 I already know which one I have, 00:29:26.502 --> 00:29:28.346 which would be ROI, return on impact. 00:29:28.767 --> 00:29:30.190 What's your parting shot for today, Logan? 00:29:30.965 --> 00:29:31.527 Let's go with that. 00:29:31.547 --> 00:29:32.208 That sounds great. 00:29:32.327 --> 00:29:35.651 So I think having a path that has 00:29:35.691 --> 00:29:37.313 the biggest impact is always the way to 00:29:37.333 --> 00:29:37.553 go. 00:29:38.032 --> 00:29:39.375 You have to balance everything else in 00:29:39.414 --> 00:29:40.976 life, both your personal life, 00:29:41.036 --> 00:29:42.237 professional life, money, 00:29:42.597 --> 00:29:44.318 all that stuff has a part. 00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:45.200 However, 00:29:45.721 --> 00:29:47.301 we're on this earth to serve and that's 00:29:47.321 --> 00:29:48.103 what we need to do. 00:29:48.462 --> 00:29:49.964 We need to go and impact as many 00:29:50.005 --> 00:29:51.705 people's lives as possible in a positive 00:29:51.747 --> 00:29:51.987 manner. 00:29:52.326 --> 00:29:53.387 The unfortunate thing with that, 00:29:53.407 --> 00:29:55.108 and we alluded to in the podcast and 00:29:55.189 --> 00:29:56.548 with some of the answers, 00:29:56.568 --> 00:29:59.151 is just that does take money. 00:29:59.191 --> 00:30:01.951 That takes effort. 00:30:02.132 --> 00:30:04.453 That takes things that are uncomfortable. 00:30:05.374 --> 00:30:06.994 That's just part of the game. 00:30:07.015 --> 00:30:10.257 So I think think of life as how 00:30:10.277 --> 00:30:11.958 much impact can I have both on my 00:30:11.998 --> 00:30:12.698 family's life? 00:30:13.018 --> 00:30:15.480 people around me all those things how can 00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:17.041 i serve in the best way possible and 00:30:17.061 --> 00:30:19.002 then figure out how to do it right 00:30:19.384 --> 00:30:21.505 figure out what everything else entails to 00:30:21.525 --> 00:30:23.787 be able to do that and then uh 00:30:23.807 --> 00:30:25.067 don't be afraid to be a leader in 00:30:25.107 --> 00:30:26.930 the field that's that's another thing too 00:30:26.990 --> 00:30:28.892 i think we need leadership we need pass 00:30:28.932 --> 00:30:32.013 we need strong voices but also we need 00:30:32.054 --> 00:30:34.896 to uh we need to make sure we 00:30:35.037 --> 00:30:37.138 are part of the solution which i think 00:30:37.179 --> 00:30:39.820 we're positioned to do that so i'm excited 00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:40.561 for the future with it 00:30:40.981 --> 00:30:42.548 love it if someone wanted to find you 00:30:42.929 --> 00:30:45.477 this is time to be shameless uh website 00:30:45.537 --> 00:30:46.118 how do they find you 00:30:46.791 --> 00:30:46.951 Yep. 00:30:47.211 --> 00:30:49.473 So Blue Rose Physical Therapy and Blue 00:30:49.513 --> 00:30:49.933 Rose Running. 00:30:49.954 --> 00:30:50.375 So if you go 00:30:50.615 --> 00:30:53.076 www.blueroesphysicaltherapy.com, 00:30:53.116 --> 00:30:54.218 blueroserunning.com, 00:30:54.798 --> 00:30:55.999 there's different paths for there. 00:30:56.179 --> 00:30:58.441 You have access to our clinical sites. 00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.162 You have access to our running, 00:31:00.262 --> 00:31:01.884 our private coaching, biomechanics, 00:31:02.003 --> 00:31:03.585 VO two max testing, all these things. 00:31:04.846 --> 00:31:06.067 You can just find our information. 00:31:06.086 --> 00:31:07.708 Plus we're on Instagram, Facebook. 00:31:08.328 --> 00:31:09.108 Look us for that. 00:31:09.148 --> 00:31:10.891 We'll put that all in the show notes. 00:31:10.931 --> 00:31:12.211 We usually share that pretty well. 00:31:12.551 --> 00:31:13.493 That'd be great. 00:31:13.554 --> 00:31:16.037 And thanks to APT Arkansas for connecting 00:31:16.077 --> 00:31:16.357 us, man. 00:31:16.377 --> 00:31:17.138 We appreciate that. 00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:18.340 Yeah, it's been great. 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:19.623 I appreciate you having me on the show. 00:31:19.883 --> 00:31:21.305 I look forward to hopefully another time. 00:31:21.965 --> 00:31:23.167 Logan, appreciate the time, man. 00:31:23.188 --> 00:31:23.989 Thanks for coming on the show. 00:31:24.289 --> 00:31:24.750 Yeah, thank you.