All right.
Good Tuesday morning to you on a snowy
Ohio.
Apparently a snowy Ohio morning.
We have no snow here in the north
of the northeast just yet.
Strap in.
I just have a question for you, Tony.
Number one, how was your Thanksgiving?
We were just talking about that for a
second.
It was phenomenal.
We had a great time.
We did the turkey trot.
We did all the normal family traditions.
Can't ask for a better day.
Those aren't normal.
Those are Norman Rockwell.
I think those are less normal today.
Those should be more normal.
So explain your Thanksgiving,
because you gave me the rundown.
Yeah, so we can bring Dave in.
Typically,
now this has been going on ten years
or so, we wake up, multiple families,
we're all connected.
My wife comes from big families,
so her siblings,
their respective families,
we go to a turkey trot somewhere.
But usually what happens,
we dump a turkey into the oven,
throw some sweet potatoes,
some regular potatoes.
We leave, run the turkey trot,
get pictures, come back home,
pull all the cooked food out,
have a little family breakfast,
just the immediate, the nuclear family.
And then we go over to grandma's house
or a brother-in-law's house.
Fifty, sixty people get together,
all of us family,
and we just have an amazing day.
You know,
I've never been part of a family like
this.
I married into this family,
but it's like from the sixty plus year
olds down to the six month olds.
Everybody's involved playing wiffle ball,
playing football, like backyard stuff.
Usually it ends with a big poker
tournament.
All the kids can play poker.
The adults can play poker and we just
have a great night.
This is not standard in a good way.
Like you just described like nine
different holidays jammed into one day.
And it sounds like, I mean,
if you're a kid,
you don't even know where to look.
You know what I mean?
It is the most amazing growing up
experience for these kids.
Like just within a three mile radius where
I live, there's three families,
all the boys, mostly boys, couple girls.
They're all cousins.
They camped out.
It was twenty two degrees.
They camped out in the backyard that
night.
because obviously the college kids were
home.
They wanted to hang out with the younger
cousins.
It's just crazy.
It seems fake,
but it's been going on for like twenty
years.
So I don't know when it's going to
all fall apart, but it is amazing.
Dave didn't camp out.
Where were you?
Were you in the city or were you
somewhere?
For Thanksgiving, we were in South Jersey.
I wanted to quickly ask,
because I feel like Jimmy's leaning in as
well.
I think Jimmy, because I know him well,
I think we both feel the same way,
which is, are we... So, Tony,
are Jimmy and I more likely to get
the invite to the lake...
family trip,
the lake experience that you had in the
summer, first before this Thanksgiving?
Because it sounds like this Thanksgiving
is a big family gathering.
You said, fifty, sixty people.
Are there some friends mixed in there?
Are there some, you know?
No.
Okay.
So Jimmy and I have to start with
the lake experience potentially,
maybe hijack that,
and then we can work our way into
a future Meritado Thanksgiving.
Yes.
Just real quick.
So my wife is one of fourteen kids,
no twins, same mom and dad.
Like so, you know,
there's no need for outside outsiders to
come in.
But yes, you and Jimmy, you start here.
You start small.
You meet my family, my kids.
We go out.
We have a good time.
And if you if you if you make
the cut.
Then we'll bring you in.
And they're all phenomenal athletes.
That's the thing.
Like I am the slowest person.
I ran an average pace of eight forty
five for a simple five K.
These guys were all done in six,
six and a half minutes.
The slowest one other than me was like
seven minute mile pace.
Which is still good for a five K.
Yeah.
Very good.
It's crazy.
What do we got?
Your model, your modeling behavior.
Yeah.
That's what you're doing.
You're saying like, hey, don't go run.
You're like, hey, try to keep like.
can't keep a kid off of you i
don't have any kids but i know how
kids work generally if you're doing
something and you don't want them to do
it tell them not you can't do it
right like don't you got to stay out
of here i'm using a power saw and
you're like i don't know what the powers
are but if you're getting here it's time
to learn how to do whatever kids are
like yeah i'm out it's reverse psychology
as people scream at the screen all right
so here is the prompt we talked about
last week
We've talked about this before.
I think Dave was con, Tony was pro,
and I was sort of like, huh, yeah,
that makes sense.
And now I think it's becoming more and
more of a reality,
because I don't think we talked about this
for a while, which is,
is this clinic I'm about to describe
possible in the near future,
which is patients don't pay a copay,
patients don't pay a membership fee,
but a clinic is able to understand that
they're in an attention economy,
and run a clinic just based on the
revenue that you can create from the
attention that the clinic actually
demands.
And then I remember we always look for,
the first time we talked about this, like,
well,
is there a model like this that exists
outside of healthcare?
And then I forget who said it,
but it was Judge Judy and all those
courtroom shows.
Like, if you don't know how those work,
if I'm suing Tony,
and Dave's the judge, before we go in,
we just sign like, this is binding,
whatever they say goes,
but we're paying the fee.
So if I sue Tony for a thousand
dollars and Dave's the judge and says,
guilty, Jimmy owes the money,
they just pay it.
Cause they know they can sell more
commercials during that episode that'll
pay for all those fees.
So they're like, we need more cases.
That's our problem.
We need more content.
So that model, I mean, Judge Wapner,
Judge Judy,
They've been around for a gajillion years.
And now there's thirty two of them.
There's all the if you're if you stay
at home during the day,
that's all those things.
So I was like, I don't know.
Is this possible?
Like, it's cute on TV,
but is this possible?
And I said, you know, what would happen?
What would Mr.
Beast and his team do in the first
thirty, sixty, ninety?
Well, they would make challenges.
Right.
I want to see people do things.
There needs to be an element of failure.
I have to see what happens next.
Like, that's the thing I know.
Like,
that's the element of any good story.
When you're telling a story about
Thanksgiving, you're like,
and then what happens?
And like, then the poker game.
And then we break into,
we start doing shot skis or whatever
people do in Ohio, right?
Like,
but that's how you tell a good story.
So free evals, free plans of care,
patient walkout,
patients walk out ten times better,
but everything's got to,
you have to sign your
did the rights away and be like,
all right, I really want this,
but we're all gonna,
we're also gonna make you a star kid.
I think it would be,
I'll pay this patient a thousand dollars
if they can do the perfect squat.
And then they bring someone in like Doug
Adams or something with his,
tech and they can measure who can is
there anybody that can do a perfect squat
where they're they go straight i don't
know but the answer is can you get
enough views to make that pay more than
you would have earned on the copay to
cover overhead so ad revenue sponsorships
presented by you know thera band or
whatever you want to do affiliate links
merch
Creator collaborations.
There's a lot of PTs now.
Ten thousand followers on Instagram used
to be a big deal.
Now we're not.
We're talking in millions like these are
millions, right?
Corporate challenges.
Why doesn't, like, think about this.
How many employees does an organization
like ATI or Athletico,
I'm not picking on either of them,
but they've got thousands of employees.
I can look that number up.
How many followers do they have?
My bet is less than employees or close,
like the proportion isn't there.
You can't even get your own employees to
follow.
Why?
Because you're not leading.
Mr. Beast would lead.
He'd do brand integrations.
He would be on the phone with Hyperice
and everybody would be walking out with a
Theragun.
It would be your parting gift.
right, every time.
So I think that we're not there yet,
but is anything that I said like out
of the realm of recent,
like near future possibilities so far?
Dave?
Well, I wanted to ask,
do you guys think that MrBeast videos are,
is that a form of reality TV?
Like we have reality TV like Survivor and,
you know, like the Kardashians.
So you guys agree it's a form of
reality TV?
Yes.
I think this would be a fascinating
experiment if a physical therapy practice
did this.
In my opinion, when you watch,
and I don't watch any of this stuff,
but The Bachelor and all this ridiculous
crap.
It's okay.
People,
we know that there are certain people
especially in the US,
certain people that that's how they
actually are,
but then a lot of these networks and
the producers and they find people on
these reality shows or for these reality
shows and they kind of ham it up
and they lean into like the negative,
controversial stuff,
whatever the behavior is, right?
So my thoughts on this would be,
if you did this for a physical therapy
practice,
if the whole intention was we want to
get eyeballs, attention, brands,
sponsorships, partnerships, whatever,
you move away from, I believe,
Tony will probably push back,
you move away from the individual patient
and client's
uh, results that they care about.
Now, of course, if it was Tony's clinic,
you know,
some people with these total knee
replacement, you know,
post surgical rehabs,
they're still going to get a little bit
better.
They're going to get a little bit more
range of motion, but like,
let's just say plug and play tomorrow.
This reality show is in Tony's clinic all
of a sudden.
And now all of a sudden it's like
no insurance.
They're not taking insurance.
They're not,
they're not collecting copays.
People are just coming in and out.
I believe that
it would be less focused on results.
And then therefore you would have people
that are like,
they're coming and maybe that's part of
the mental therapy and they're socializing
and all that maybe.
But I don't,
I think you'd be moving away from actual
things that are a little more directly
valuable that you can charge for.
And that would, you'd have to,
that's like a fork in the road.
And you're, I want to,
I want to go,
I want to go results based because I
can charge more for that.
And you want,
you want to go this the other way.
Let me, let me change the angle slightly.
what's the guy's name i always forget his
name the guy who runs the savannah bananas
jesse cole what if it was run by
jesse like they're similar in mindset but
all jess jesse does not care about players
i mean he does but he cares about
the fans
So like- But they also still charge ticket
price and they also charge for merch.
So- A thousand percent.
Brilliant.
They understand who the audience is.
My point in saying that is,
if you said I'm going,
what if your angle wasn't attention first,
because I also don't think Mr.
B starts out with attention first.
I think he starts out with,
can I make an amazing thing for these
people to stop them in their tracks to
come?
And we've talked about this before.
I think that is attention first,
the way Mr. B thinks.
Yeah, all right.
So what, yes.
But what I'm saying is like,
so what if you took Dave's angle,
which is like,
it has to be great for the patient,
But also,
if I walked into a hundred PT clinics
tomorrow, am I seeing Banana Ball or Mr.
Beast?
I did a live stream yesterday,
and Rebecca Griffith, the EDDPT, was like,
I had my kid in the lobby at
a children's hospital,
and you know what I saw?
Lego art and big buttons for a kid
to press on,
and then you go into a urology office
now, and what do you see?
White walls.
White, yeah.
Beige, everything.
The question is,
what if you just approached everything
like banana ball and you were like,
we're going to make it fun and exciting.
So maybe I'm just like,
so I see what you're saying.
So there's, oh, first of all,
good or bad.
clickbait is bad unless it's clickbait to
get tested for prostate cancer right like
if you use the same elements for good
it's neither good nor a sword is bad
unless you're trying to defend yourself
from a dragon i don't know i went
full sci-fi on that but i did so
yes but my thing is everybody would have
said jesse from savannah bananas was
insane and he was until you're not and
then everybody cheers for you and buys
your t-shirt
I don't know.
By the way, we have a new sponsor.
I got to read the sponsor ad.
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Gentle, aggressive.
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Use promo code breakfast for ten percent
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Dave missed last week,
so we ought to know what you're doing.
We're now doing fake commercials until
someone laughs enough and shares the fake
commercials that gets to someone who goes,
I'd pay for that.
I'll pay for an ad.
How much do I have to give?
I'll say this.
How about this?
This is a twist.
Oh, look at this.
A twist.
I just heard on the news as I
was walking in.
Today's Giving Tuesday.
I'll read your live read on our live
stream.
I want no money.
I want you to donate to a charity.
It's got to be a charity.
Do you know what I mean?
Like,
so we could just sell charity donations
because people listen to this and we are
this in the world.
Like Tony,
you just shared a Facebook page with me
and I assume you want me to bring
it on the screen.
Yeah.
Like this is a great example.
If you pull it up, I, I,
I think I've shared it on my Facebook
page.
If people don't know, what is it?
Jeremiah Daniel Johnson, Johnson.
Yeah.
Yes.
he is hilarious i when you first see
it dave like doing have you seen go
to another video you got to see the
first like the hook of each video go
to a different video look at the picture
and then look at him oh my god
how to work out go to another one
go to another how to work out battleship
So like you would think he's being so
offensive, abrasive,
like everybody would hate him.
He shows these horrible body images and
then dresses like the body image.
But people love him.
He's got two and a half million followers.
And he's a personal trainer and he shows
these simple exercises.
And, you know,
his whole thing is how you can exercise
at any level.
It's just it blows my mind.
So going back to some of what we
were talking about,
like this guy knows how to grab attention.
This guy knows how to monetize the
attention.
Most of those videos are just simple ads
for him to get personal training clients.
But at two and a half million followers,
I don't know the volume,
but let me just tell you real quick.
I just hit forty thousand followers on
Facebook.
I made a thousand dollars last month.
Do the math,
whatever that math is to take me to
two and a half million from forty
thousand.
It's not going to be a perfect multiple.
But yes,
he is making more than enough money just
from Facebook,
not counting all the other media,
not counting all the other endorsements
and all the other stuff that he's probably
got.
Um, and at first glance,
and I shared it cause I was curious
what the PTs would say to women,
at least that I saw both of them
were like, I love this guy.
At first I was offended and then I
fell in love with him.
Cause you realize he's genuinely trying to
do things to help.
if the math was if the math stayed
true if your forty thousand followers got
you a thousand two point five million
would get you sixty k a month so
like in fear like so i know this
doesn't make any sense when you first look
at it but it's also like how do
you earn a million dollars a year it's
like that's a lot of money it's like
it is a lot of money but if
you broke it down by
quarters or months, you're like, oh,
how do you eat the elephant?
Right.
So it's like, well,
this how long did it take him to
get there?
But people are getting to two point five
million followers faster and faster.
Why?
Because they're coming for every minute of
every second of your day in terms of
attention.
And so we are in an attention economy.
I have the videos and I think I
shared them with you.
Dick's Sporting Goods.
is opening up a content studio.
That doesn't make any sense.
Dick's Sporting Goods used to buy
commercials on ESPN in a Thirty for Thirty
or in SportsCenter.
They will continue to do that.
But they understand that the math,
I don't know how much starting a movie
studio costs, millions of dollars.
But they're saying whatever that millions
of dollars is,
it's a drop in the bucket because now
we control the whole vertical.
We can make a documentary about
The little league team from middle of
nowhere Montana that Dix gave all the
equipment to follow them just like they do
in that NFL.
What's the NFL thing that they do?
Combine?
No,
they follow a team like from preseason
every year.
Oh, Hard Knocks?
Hard Knocks.
So essentially,
it's a documentary every year.
They picked the Jets one year.
I was like,
did you think the Jets were going to
go?
But whatever.
I mean, good decision, I guess.
You got to bet I'm a long shot.
But Chick-fil-A.
is opening a content studio because I
imagine Chick-fil-A buying ads on the
Hallmark Channel because they're like,
this goes with our values and they will.
But now you are beholden to whatever ad
space is available,
whatever Hallmark Channel says it's worth
and the price can go up and down.
or you just build your own studio.
Again, I just looked it up.
I got to see,
how many employees do you think ATI?
I'm going to say, I don't know.
I'm chat GPTing that right now,
but I'm saying like, okay,
more than five thousand clinicians and
support staff,
between five and seven thousand.
They have seven thousand followers on
Instagram.
telling me those pts those five thousand
clinicians don't touch a hundred lives a
week but they're not telling the patient
stories they're not telling the clinician
stories so your story doesn't spread so
i'm going that way obviously like my time
is more media than patient care dave is
not so i would ask dave because i
don't think he disagrees i don't think
dave says no it's a terrible idea don't
start a media company don't do those
things nobody cares nobody wants to watch
your videos
But I think Dave sees a bigger opportunity
for what he wants to achieve going a
different direction.
So I want to hear from Dave, like,
why don't you?
You say no to a million things.
We all do.
Why is this something, Dave,
you're saying no to?
You're kind of dipping a toe in that
water, and that's awesome.
But it's not your primary focus.
So.
I'm doing more video.
You see me posting more stuff on Instagram
and Facebook and all that.
So I definitely understand the value of
media.
We're now focused on... I am actually...
Day to day,
I think of you guys and I'm like,
man,
how do these guys do one or two
or three posts a day?
And some days I'm trying to get two
out and some days I don't or whatever.
So I need to outsource that and work
on that.
But...
The real crux of this is what we
haven't really talked about,
which is I don't believe or really care
about the long term of any of these
dollars coming from these platforms.
This is where I believe I want to
be paid by either the client, patient,
customer,
or things that Tony and Jimmy have
mentioned before,
which is being paid from brands or
sponsorships.
I do not trust YouTube, Google, Facebook,
Instagram, TikTok.
But when Tony posts stuff about, oh,
you know, Amazon affiliate, whatever,
and he used to make more, I think,
in previous years,
and now they're chopping it because they
control the flow of your money.
So forget, in my belief,
Forget any of this monetization of
anything on YouTube or Facebook or
Instagram or anything.
Work on the brand sponsorships that you
can contact, you can sell.
Jimmy,
you're trying to get into different
associations with your offering.
Yeah.
And that I think is,
I'd be curious to see,
flip it back on Tony,
because Tony's getting free products and
he's getting companies to reach out to him
and all that.
And that's amazing.
And I think that in the bigger companies
that you can sell to directly and then
you know that there's some type of clause
or an agreement where they cannot rip the
carpet out from underneath you the way
that Google and YouTube and Facebook and
Instagram and TikTok will.
Yes.
So let me rephrase.
I think any money you get,
like Tony's getting a thousand bucks a
month from Facebook,
that's your utility payment.
That's couch cushion money.
Not to say a thousand extra dollars a
month is not a lot.
That's money that comes.
Because in a year or two,
that might be the same number of
followers, two hundred and fifty dollars,
because now there's more people.
I'm saying exactly what you're saying,
which is the ATIs of the world have
seven thousand followers on Instagram.
They should have
Two hundred fifty thousand.
They don't.
Why?
And I'm saying this out of love.
It's not I'm not picking on ATI.
It's large organizations.
There's so many people that have to
approve stuff.
So I'm saying to individuals like for
Dave, it makes most sense.
to be a content creation company first.
I'm not saying stop, take the copay now,
but if you focused on this,
you'd need to outsource this because Dave
should not be editing a video.
Dave should just be- I literally don't
know how to edit videos.
You should be GaryVee and be,
I'd be curious,
like I'd be curious if a buddy like
my friend Drew followed Dave around with
no prompts,
You get someone who knows what to do,
like Drew or another videographer,
and just say, follow me around.
No camera for the first day or whatever.
And then once they're like,
I got the rhythm.
You don't need to explain to a really
good drummer what's about to happen.
You're just like,
start playing your guitar.
I'll figure it out.
That's what a good videographer,
in my opinion, can do.
After day two or three,
I got your two or three different stories
that the formats that we're just going to
tell over, over, over.
And when that gets you so much,
the idea is so much attention translates.
This much attention translates to this
many phone calls to this many book things.
But then this grows, this grows,
this grows.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
So that for you,
you can monetize the attention to booked
things.
appointments and then i'm saying do
exactly what you're saying which is reach
out to whatever brands you want and you're
like i could be carrying around your
massage gun or whatever tool i use i
tried to leverage it last week did you
see my i only did it i only
did it once and i did a half-assed
job because i was sort of pissed i
played men's beer league hockey because i
still think i'm twenty something years old
oh yeah i saw that i saw you
tagged uh what was the the skate company
the equipment company
grower because when i bought it four years
ago they were like this is the fancy
one and you should get this and then
i block one shot i play with a
bunch of dudes that are in their forties
and for the non-hockey experts out there
at no point should your skate be a
convertible it should not your toes should
never be visible during a hockey game
So I reached out to Graf silently and
I was like, what's the warranty?
These things are three and a half,
four years old.
Like that shouldn't happen.
Nothing.
So then I went online.
I was like, hey, Bauer Hockey,
if I jump ship and come your way.
My toes stay in the skate, right?
But you see how that,
like now all of a sudden attention is
valuable.
I feel like someone like Dave who has
little to no overhead in terms of brick
and mortar, you being a content- Jimmy,
we do have a brick and mortar in
Midtown Manhattan.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Why did I not know that?
I didn't know that.
Thank you.
All right,
at least I'm not paying attention.
At Fifty Seven and Six,
we are outpatient as well.
It's basically like a sublease,
but we have an office for the busy
professionals who don't want a house
visit, a home call,
a house call or a home PT, whatever.
I did not know that.
Either I missed it or you never said
it.
I don't know.
More of the content coming out from there.
I was just there yesterday doing content.
See, that's what I'm saying.
So this is my idea.
If Mr.
Beast decided I'm going to be a PT
tomorrow, this is what he would do.
And you know he would succeed in some
way.
Now,
you have to measure what success looks
like.
I think the thing that Dave brings up
in terms of like, dude,
you can't just chase views.
You have to chase results.
Agreed.
A hundred percent agreed.
So do it like Jesse from the Savannah
Bananas, which is like patience first.
We're gonna smush patient first in your
face, fifty different ways,
but make it fun.
Make me wanna come there.
Make your list.
Savannah,
you can't buy a Savannah Bananas ticket
right now.
You can't.
The waiting list is out the roof,
because they understand who they over
serve.
I was just watching a video with him
this morning.
Dave's a baseball guy.
You can't play music,
As soon as the pitcher starts to pitch,
you know,
if you're the music guy in the stadium,
because it might be distracting.
And they're like, Jesse's like, dude,
they're professionals.
You really think they can't do it while,
you know, Cotton Eye Joe is playing?
They can do it.
Trust me.
So they do that all the time because
they're like, who is that music for?
It's for, so they're just,
they literally do everything opposite.
So it'd be funny to flip everything except
patient first.
But see, this is the thing.
Now, Jimmy,
I shared an ad that I want to
get Dave's feedback on because this might
be kind of in his world.
But while you're pulling that up... Where?
Where did you share that?
In the private chat in StreamYard.
Oh, okay.
When I am in the clinic...
I don't choose the music that I like,
right?
I saw that same clip about banana ball.
I choose the music that is appropriate to
the people in the clinic.
If I have a bunch of high school
kids at three thirty,
I'm going to let them choose the music.
I don't even know what the music would
be.
But when I have my geriatrics in the
morning, it's sixties and seventies,
you know, it's kind of older music, um,
nineteenth, late nineteenth century music.
But, uh,
like I've made centuries music from the
late nineteen hundred.
We have cholera from the eighteen and
nineteen hundred.
But I've had staff that they're like,
they pick music that they want regardless
of what the patient wants.
This was the whole MLB versus banana ball.
It's like, are we here for us?
Are we here for them?
Now I am the business owner.
I'm here for the staff.
I know my patients aren't gonna leave
because they don't get to hear their
favorite song.
So I let my staff pick the music
that my staff wants to hear because I'm
curating an experience for my staff.
Hopefully my staff then delivers a good
enough experience to the patient,
you know,
and that's kind of the trickle down the
way I see it.
But I can't.
So few therapists really sell what the
patient wants.
They sell what they want to sell and
they want the patient to want what they're
selling.
It's just all backwards.
Yeah, I can't open that ad.
You have to do it.
My Facebook is jacked.
Oh, okay.
I'll pull it up here.
So Dave,
I shared this on my personal feed,
but let me share my screen.
So for you,
your two biggest problems are patience and
hiring, right?
Hiring is not a problem because I don't
want to hire.
No, no, no, for Dave.
Is hiring still an issue?
No, actually,
I am interviewing an excellent candidate
right now.
And about ten minutes ago,
they emailed back that they agree to a
potential start date of January twelfth,
which is about six weeks from right now.
Wow.
But it's always got to be like at
least ten percent of your vision, right?
Because like somebody always right.
So the patient demand and the therapist
demand.
Yeah.
So those are your content types in my
mind.
Like,
how do I show like what's like Ryan
Serhan, right?
I'm sure he's got enough people,
but he's always going,
look what I've got next.
Look what I've got next.
He's a movie studio.
Look what I've got next.
I think it's the same thing.
all right here i'm gonna i think this
is the one i'm gonna get it to
play tell me if you guys can hear
the women don't respect and the world
doesn't respect okay okay wait hold on so
you only coach men who make over a
hundred and fifty k a year that's a
little arrogant don't you think okay i
love it and you know i we we
talked about this before i believe or you
shared it last year
I don't know if it's the same guy.
There's lots of guys who do this.
You know,
I don't even know if this is real
or this is AI generated.
Like,
I don't know if that's a real woman
or what.
You can't tell anymore.
Yeah.
But yeah, the whole idea is, you know,
he only takes clients that are making a
certain amount per year,
one hundred and fifty thousand in this
case.
He goes on to explain how it's not
about arrogance or exclusivity,
but it's about you.
You have to show that you can achieve
results.
I still go back to like if I
really wanted to colleges don't take every
every kid who wants to come into the
school.
Like we've got nieces and nephews applying
to college right now.
They get told no a lot.
They have amazing test scores.
Pretty much everything is you have to
prove first that you can do it,
whether it's a therapist you're hiring,
a patient you're going to treat, whatever.
You have to prove that you can do
it.
You have to prove that you have a
track record of success.
And then we will accept you because we
have a certain level of expectation.
This is a completely different model than
the typical therapist who's begging people
who are smoking and drinking and leading a
lifestyle that's not conducive to healing,
who are coming if it's free,
who are coming if someone else is paying
the bill,
who will cancel that day if they want
to go get their hair done,
their nails done or something else.
modestly more important.
These are just completely different
worlds, diametrically opposing worlds.
You're in this world.
What do you think of an ad like
this?
How do you see this as a screening
process to make sure you get the right
people into your ecosystem?
I love it.
I was actually,
I meant to save it and send it
to you guys.
I was just targeted by some like running
coach on Facebook and the running coach ad
said,
are you a runner making a hundred thousand
dollars a year or more or something like
that?
So literally that is the,
that is the first split second beginning
of,
every ad from this guy it's different ads
and then it's of course then it goes
to videos of his clients in terms of
results and i help in one training block
this guy went from you know a seven
minute pace to a six minute pace or
whatever um it makes sense i i i
could see how some people would not like
it there's certain pts that we won't
mention we won't mention by name there's
even pts here in new york city that
would not like this
But they hope that.
It's a weed out.
If you're turned off by this,
you're gonna hate me.
I don't wanna pay for a lead from
you.
I don't wanna spend twenty minutes until
you find out that this is who Dave
is and you don't like me.
Good.
You could do the opposite of this.
right so that video you just played is
the ultimate weed out if you if you
don't have a hundred fifty k and you
aren't trying to be a badass in the
next ninety days i don't want to talk
to you i shared these videos in our
group chat with these and now it's all
i see right for the next couple weeks
there's this guy and his accounts like
boss victor or victor the boss
he drives around a pickup truck and he
talks to people who are living on the
street and he's like hey can i give
you some food and he gives him some
food and he's like hey listen if you
ever want to get off the street here's
my card you make the decision and he
flies people from like boston or whatever
he is or baltimore to he's like you
have to leave the state if you want
to get clean he's like i'm i'm fifteen
years sober i was in jail and this
is a mini documentary in six in a
reel in sixty seconds and then he flies
people to recovery and then smash cut to
the same person you just saw with twenty
extra pounds on them.
And it's like, oh,
now you're working and now you're doing
this.
You know that the views on those on
his Facebook accounts are paying for like
the chicken sandwiches and the flights.
And then he goes,
who wants to fund the next transformation?
And people are like, hell yeah, dude.
And that's how he funds it.
So that's what I'm saying.
By all means,
don't expect Facebook or YouTube to ever
pay your bills.
They won't.
That's couch cushion money.
what vic the boss is able to do
is i got this attention what do i
do with it he doesn't need a brand
he goes to people and goes who wants
to be part part of this transformation
this is sarah mclaughlin arms of an angel
for aspca do you ever notice their
commercials are like two and a half
minutes long
That's on purpose,
because that's how long the song is.
So depressing, those commercials.
I changed the channel.
They're horrible.
Because they're effective.
I don't know what part of the brain
is sadness.
They put a thumb on it,
and they're like, oh,
do you want it to stop?
Do you want it to stop?
Go to the website and donate right now.
Just nine dollars a month.
It's a cup of coffee.
Do you remember Save Harold?
I think that's what it was.
One of the look up.
I'll Google that in a second.
I think it was Save Harold.
It was one of the first websites.
This was nineteen ninety eight.
It was a website.
There were no social platforms.
This guy just put up a website and
said, like,
unless I get this website gets ten
thousand dollars.
This is Harold the bunny.
The bunny dies.
except you had to share it you're like
this isn't real this isn't real he's not
gonna kill he's like i'm gonna kill the
bunny and eat it unless i get ten
thousand dollars and people and then we
get more clicks and then it would rank
higher in google and then people will be
like i don't know if it's real or
not but i'm you know what just to
be safe i'm gonna give a dollar i'm
just gonna get one i'm just not i'm
gonna give one dollar just to make sure
the bunny doesn't die
That's the thing.
Do that, but do it ethically.
Take all the scammer things people do,
figure out their tricks,
figure out how to use it for good.
These are weapons, people,
and we are outmanned and outgunned.
Time to arm up.
So real quick,
going back to something David said,
and I don't know if this will come
up here.
Yeah.
You're right, Dave,
it's not going to be here forever.
I don't expect like YouTube and Facebook,
the money tree will die.
But on the screen, if you're not watching,
but you're listening,
this is a screenshot that I took out
of one of the I didn't mean to
kick Dave off.
No,
I think Dave just I think it's internet.
Okay.
Well,
this was a screenshot I took from a
TikTok affiliate group.
This person, she says,
what a blessing November was.
Cheers to December.
This person made forty five thousand
dollars.
I went to this.
This is a man.
I've got another one from a woman.
I went to his TikTok page, his channel.
He's got forty six thousand subscribers,
something like that.
Not a huge channel.
He does have multiple million plus view
videos.
But this guy made forty five thousand
dollars in one month for a little product
review, sixty seconds or less videos.
Here is another example.
This is the woman.
She said, you know, anything is possible.
I was just a girl,
West side of Detroit, turned on a camera,
started making content.
She, her husband and her kids,
they kind of make videos.
They're cute.
They're nice.
They're nothing that somebody else
watching this couldn't make.
Fifty seven thousand dollars in one month.
The month of November.
She has like forty five thousand
followers.
Not a ton.
It just blows my mind.
So this will stop.
This will end.
There's no doubt in my mind.
Jimmy, you can take that down.
I don't know how to get it off.
There's no doubt in my mind that this
is a short term just like Bitcoin and
other things.
You take advantage of it when it's here.
But the idea is that I want to
jump on that train while it's available.
There goes Dave again.
And I'm going to put that money in
the bank, you know,
and that's where like the product
companies and the other stuff.
Yeah.
What you do with that money is you,
in my opinion,
you double down on make like, okay,
that's a, that's a loan from my followers.
This is what Mr. Beast does.
His first video that really hit,
I'm sure we could map out like a,
like a timeline.
His first video hit and he made a
million dollars,
but he probably spent a lot of money
to get it.
But then he doubled down and he took
that million bucks.
He's like, how do we triple this?
How do we triple that?
I got my first product video request,
Tony.
Yeah, tell me more.
And I was like,
how do I improve the visibility of my
YouTube channel?
I got like almost two thousand
subscribers.
Interview shows on YouTube aren't the
greatest, most eye catching content.
Right.
But live streams,
that's what we do a little bit
differently.
Right.
because then we also turn it into podcast
episodes for each of our channels,
and then we talk about it.
And we also talk about brands like Copay
Crunchers,
the cereal for PTs who want less
administrative work, more sugar.
Every box comes with a surprise denied
claim inside.
Tastes like .
These are our sponsors for our show.
So my point is I got my first
product
request to do a video from an overseas
brand and essentially they're those
compression like boots and they're just
like we've found your channel and again i
don't correlation or causation they
emailed me twenty minutes after i went
through my youtube channel with chat gpt
and it was like put these keywords here
change your description change this stop
doing that do this twenty so i don't
know twenty video
What's that?
You did the video?
Not yet.
No, I went back to them.
They said,
what is your rate for this thing?
And I just chat GPT'd.
I said, here's the email.
What is a fair rate for my size
channel?
I said, this is the thing.
And I'll share it whether it goes through
or not,
but I want to see how it plays
out.
Interesting, Dave.
Jimmy said, what is a fair rate?
Why do we need to worry about what
is fair?
This isn't your job,
this isn't your career,
this is what is the rate that makes
it worth my time to do?
And then what I always have to catch
myself for,
I catch myself and I stop myself is
don't self justify why you should do this.
Don't tell yourself,
I'm gonna do it for free because I'm
gonna learn and it's a learning experience
and I wanna do it and I don't
have a big audience.
You justify yourself out of the money and
then you get pit, not you,
but you in general get mad that you're
not making enough and you can't pay the
bills.
It's because we do it to ourselves.
It's not what is a fair price.
It's what is the most I can possibly
charge that still produces value for the
company, but that they are willing to pay.
And if they say yes,
that means I didn't ask for enough.
Jamie Brindle is worth following.
He's just a super laid back,
like definitely the opposite of that guy
who's looking for one hundred fifty
thousand dollars.
Like all he does is when he's a
freelancer.
I don't even know what he freelances at.
Like I've been watching this guy's videos
for two years,
but he coaches freelancers and he'll say.
price the job so you could sub it
out and live on the difference.
So like,
if I wanted to make this video,
I should have said, yes,
I'm going to price it.
So I'm gonna pass it off to Tony
or Dave, give them enough,
whatever Tony says and whatever's left
over,
I can live on the margin.
Whatever's fair for them.
Right.
Yes.
This reminds me of a great Adam Carolla
quote.
Whenever people like they'd work for him
and he'd be like, well,
I did my best.
And he's like,
I don't need you to do your best.
I need you to do my best.
I need you to envision how well I
could do it.
And I need you to rise to that.
And I think you're right, Tony.
I think I would give the same advice,
but then of course I don't take that
advice because then I get all in my
emotions and I go,
I'll take three dollars and twenty five
cents, whatever you think is worth it.
But I didn't say three dollars and twenty
five cents.
So I shared an email exchange in the
Passions to Profit group where I and I
knew they were going to say no,
but a company reached out to me.
They had a cold therapy, you know,
recirculating machine.
It had the cooler.
It had the pump and it's for post-op
stuff.
And they were like, hey,
we want a thirty to sixty second video
explaining the device and a second thirty
to sixty second video showing the device
or using the device.
I said, OK, it's five hundred dollars.
You know, I'll do both videos.
I'll do a seven day turnaround.
Send me the product.
I give them all the specifications,
told them they could use it on their
Amazon,
but they can't use it on other things
without additional fees.
I knew they were going to say no,
but I did this because I wanted to
show the group how this goes back and
forth.
So they replied, they said, no,
they said our budget is two hundred
dollars for for the two videos combined.
That's one hundred dollars a video.
And I said, no, I said, you know,
my price is five hundred for the two.
That's only two hundred and fifty dollars
a video.
I knew it would take me an hour
to do the video.
I've done videos like this before.
And my intent was not to get the
job.
I didn't need the job.
I didn't want the job.
My intent was to get other people the
job.
So what I did was I said,
thank you very much.
ChatGPT wrote the reply email.
I can't do it for that rate, whatever.
Here's a list of,
and I think I sent like five people
in my group, their email addresses.
I said, these are all therapists.
They're all creators.
They are willing to do the job for
the two hundred dollars.
If you want, connect with them directly.
And, you know,
it's just it was interesting,
but probably like Dave said,
You have a level of power and authority
to say no.
And the easiest time to do that is
when you don't need to say yes.
When you're not desperate,
when you're not starving,
when you're not trying to make the rent
payment, it's very easy to say no.
And that was one of those cases where
I'm like, I don't care.
I don't need it.
There are other products I would have said
yes to at the same two hundred dollar
rate.
Because I really wanted those products or
I wanted the relationship or whatever.
In this case,
there was not much for me to say
yes to.
So it was easy to say no,
unless you pay me the money.
Yep.
um plumber it's what plumbers and
electricians and roofers will do they'll
give you i'm trying to keep it family
friendly but they'll give you an fu price
and if you say yes they'll go great
i'll drop the other three gigs i was
doing for a ten percent market i'll take
this one but you also said something else
tony which i didn't say in my email
reply you said something very very
valuable which is i'll turn it around in
seven days
You said, I can do it on that.
I can do a good, fast or cheap.
I'm not cheap.
I am good.
And I'm going to turn around.
So you, you gave them,
you need it in seven days.
You got it.
You can be two of those three,
but he said, you already came to me.
So you knew the quality of my channel.
Right.
I ain't going to be cheap.
Right.
But I can be fast.
Do you want it even faster?
Great.
It's a hundred.
It's one hundred and fifty dollars.
That's that whole guy, Jamie Brindle.
He has these great conversations.
He does like the Dr.
Glaucom Flecken sort of thing.
But this guy,
Jamie Brindle for freelancers,
is just talking to himself.
He's always talking to like new freelancer
and pro freelancer.
And his videos are all circular.
So they begin with a question and end
with the answer.
And then you watch the video three times
before you realize you just watched it
three cycles.
But it's always like,
they say they want another revision.
Should I just give it to him?
And he goes like,
he'll give like great examples of like,
absolutely respond.
I can absolutely do that.
How would you like me to invoice you
now?
Or at the end of the revision,
instead of saying, well,
here's how much it costs.
He just goes,
how would you like me to end?
Like super subtle,
but he's like upfront and he's like,
you're in control.
And as soon as you recognize that, like,
I need you to understand that you're in
control.
And as soon as you recognize that, um,
stuff gets really powerful.
So this is where we bring it into
patient care.
Somebody calls today.
They're like, hey,
I've got a referral for physical therapy.
My shoulder's been killing me.
My neck hurts, my back hurts, whatever.
Okay, well,
I've got a couple openings later today.
The price is two hundred and seventy five
dollars.
Or I can schedule you early next week.
The price is one hundred and seventy five
dollars.
Which would you prefer?
You know, and, and like,
we can bring some of that into this
to say, look, you want it faster.
It's more expensive.
You want it today.
You want a premium therapist.
You want to hire Dave and not Dave's
employee.
This is what it's going to cost.
These are the price differences.
And just like I gave that company options,
I didn't say no.
I just said, look,
you got this option or you got that
option.
You know, you can do it for more.
You can do it for less.
Now there is a formula.
So I don't know if I can rattle
it off, but I'll give it a shot.
When a product company reaches out and I
want to do a job,
I've got a bike sitting at the clinic
that got delivered yesterday.
My typical thing is I can get the
finished video to you within seven days of
the delivery arrival.
I can get you,
and I want to say,
don't quote me on this,
but I want to say it's like either
a thirty to sixty second video or a
three to five minute video.
I give them the specifications.
It's an unboxing and assembly video.
Separately, it's a use video.
I kind of hit all of the boxes.
I'm going to share it on these four
platforms.
These are the analytics for those four
platforms.
This is what those platforms already have
to offer, like four million views a month,
you know, seventy thousand,
eighty thousand subscribers, whatever.
All of that is formatted.
All of that is templated so that when
I get a request that comes in that
I want to say yes to,
it goes out.
I tell them that this is the fee.
Typically,
it's around five hundred dollars.
You're not allowed to use the video for
your own purposes.
You don't have access or licensing.
If you want to do that,
it's an additional fee.
And if you want to talk about a
lot of times they want to run ads
against the video so that they can get
the reach out there.
That's an additional fee licensing.
Yeah.
So it's all in chat, GBT.
All of the check boxes are ready to
go so that when I send that reply,
there really is no other question.
And even to the point where this is
my PayPal address,
this is how you can send me the
money.
This is the shipping address.
It's a business location.
There's no loading dock.
So when the shipment arrives,
it has to be ground delivery.
Think about that.
Like Tony's now in...
territory where he needs loading docks
logistics logistics team because but wait
what was the what was the do you
remember what even the first products that
you did videos were like what were they
smaller i'm guessing like you've gotten
larger in price and larger and you're
getting bikes bro yeah yeah hot tub
delivered my man like when are we doing
swim spots you know what i mean yeah
out back
Tony did the tens unit videos like years
ago.
Yeah.
Regular tens units.
Yeah.
It was probably ice packs and tens units.
You know, it was just the, again,
the stuff you have that you're using every
day.
You're the, you're the paperclip guy.
Remember the video or it was the guy
was like,
I have a paperclip and I traded the
paperclip for a, I don't know, something.
And he bought a car or something.
I don't, I'm hacking the story to pieces,
but like it's a domino.
It's like, I have a small domino.
I can't knock the big domino down,
but I can knock a slightly larger domino
down.
And if I only focus on this and
the story was to show that he could
barter and trade for things and like some
of the trades
The value of the thing he was getting
was high, but the thing he had,
that person needed now.
You were solving it.
Dude, snow plowing is a great gig.
Not so much in July, right?
But like,
do you need to go to work?
Yeah.
Do you need your business open?
I'm the guy who's here.
I'm the guy who's in my local Facebook
group right now.
It's blowing up.
Who's a reliable snow plow?
Because the guy I paid last year,
because the guy said,
you don't pay me per snow plow.
You pay me to be your guy for
the season.
Of course,
some of them are going to be shady.
And this guy was there.
So now everybody's asking,
who are the who are the reliable snowplow
people that you write to patient care?
You'd be like,
do you need to get in?
Yes.
Do you need to get in tomorrow?
Disney Fastpass option.
It costs this because I got to boot
somebody out.
Or you know what?
I have to tell you why it costs
that much.
Cost that much.
Could I say so?
You don't want it.
Google, there's six other places.
And going back to Dave's bridge visit
idea, it's not all or none.
So yesterday,
over the last couple of days, two nephews,
opposite sides of the country,
one in D.C., one in California, Oakland,
they both had injuries.
One was an ankle sprain playing football.
The other was a meniscus tear.
Their respective parents message my wife
and I, we're both PTs,
include an orthopedic surgeon that's also
in the family.
Hey, this is what's going on.
This is what the MRI report said.
What do you guys think?
The ankle sprain,
it was an acute ankle sprain.
He's like, hey, I grew up doing rice.
Do we not do rice anymore?
Somebody talked about peace and love.
What should I do with my son,
my nephew?
This is the kind of thing where both
of those kids are going to do PT.
Both of those kids are going to get
in-visit, in-person treatment.
But that night at ten a.m.,
they needed an unbiased PT who could give
them an honest opinion of what they should
do right now.
Now, because they're family,
they're not getting charged,
but people would absolutely pay for that.
So if somebody is looking for, you know,
how do I make money today?
How do I put money in my bank
account right now?
This is the kind of thing that you
put it on social media.
Social media will get the distribution.
I shared two posts less than an hour
ago,
and both of them have over a thousand
views.
And it's just as simple as, hey,
if you need a quick opinion from a
doctor of physical therapy,
Here's my number.
Here are the topics that I can help
you with.
Did your kid just sprain an ankle?
We've got four inches of snow.
Did you just strain your back shoveling
your driveway?
If you need an answer to your question,
here's the link.
Pay at the time, process your credit card,
whatever, and I'll help you.
I got a crazy idea.
Let's take Tony's methodology there.
And what should a fifteen second live read
on this morning show live stream cost
because it's not just the live stream.
Cause then Jimmy takes the audio and I
share it on PT podcast and Dave takes
his video and he shares it on his
channel.
And this is gets streamed to how many
social channels and there's clips.
And right now this was not on purpose,
but I'm wearing my bros resolve physical
therapy, you know,
t-shirt conveniently with two locations,
one in Montgomery,
New York and one in Florida,
New York that just opened.
If you want hands-on orthopedic physical
therapy,
see John and his team at resolve physical
therapy.
Like,
so you can see one live stream for
one hour you're like what am i getting
i'm like you could be as popular as
the cpt code memory game it's like regular
memory except every time you flip a card
medicare changes the rules
match two and you win match a nine
seven one four zero and a nine seven
five three zero denied for insufficient
documentation fun for the whole clinic
like this doesn't make any sense until we
make funny commercials fake ones and they
spread enough to go i'll watch that enough
people watch that and then the companies
of the world and next thing you know
we got hyper ice boots and we got
the hyper ice nikes i want the hyper
ice nikes there we go
We need a CPT code vending machine.
That was also hilarious.
That was, oh my God, amazing.
uh parting shot so all right so this
is our prompt for next show what is
not a fair not fair what is an
uncomfortable price for sponsoring one
live stream from us because we can show
you it goes to the audience that's live
and then we can say do you want
to use the clips that's a licensing fee
do you want us to live sell your
product i'll sit here with a boots on
you know the compress what do you want
me to wear
I'll wear it as long as it is
completely evidence-based,
like evidence-based candles.
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But like,
what would that be worth if these were
all real products?
Something.
The answer is not zero.
It's not a million dollars.
Not yet.
The answer is somewhere in the middle.
So maybe we do that.
Because we talked about this.
We should probably make the episode,
the next episode,
the answer to this prompt on Thursday.
What should that cost?
Because then people listening can apply it
to their own channels.
Like Michael Hyland, right?
He's the Parkinson's guy with the YouTube
channel.
michael is doing this to reach patients
and to help people i don't know him
but everything i read from his stuff tells
me he's doing it right but why couldn't
michael sell if you had something that
helped patients living with parkinson's
disease why wouldn't michael be like come
on the show i have vetted it you
have the michael parkinson's disease uh pt
seal of approval expose it to his audience
and get paid for that
So we can do that,
but let's real experiment it.
And then, oh yeah,
I wanted to talk about live selling.
Like we're talking about that with the
TikTok channels.
That's a thing.
Tony and I have talked about it.
We do the same thing you do,
talking to the audience.
We look at it like, what's live selling?
And we're like, look at this thing.
Look, I don't know.
Oh, it turns on.
How do we use this?
Well,
I can put it on my head or
I can stick it to a thing.
And then you figure out how to actually
use it.
It makes me think of that quote from
Swingers.
It's like,
you don't know how to kill this bunny.
You're just bare with these big claws.
You don't know how to kill the bunny.
You got to figure out how the claws
work first.
Sounds good.
Are we doing parting shots?
Dave, you want to go?
Well,
I was going to say real quick that
I think Tony would be the best right
now to grace some of these fake
commercials or real commercials.
That's not in my wheelhouse.
But I missed last show.
I missed last week.
I missed the pre-Thanksgiving.
So I did this last year.
So really briefly,
I'm grateful to both of you guys.
I love doing this.
This is fun.
And I still sometimes go back and listen
to some of our episodes.
I might do twenty or thirty minutes.
Sometimes I watch or listen to the whole
thing.
And I believe,
because we've been doing content and video
and audio and all that for years,
all three of us in different ways and
now together,
I know that this is valuable and helpful
and fun for the audience because I kind
of re-listen and watch
posted, you know,
shared content after the fact,
after we do live.
So I'm grateful for both of you guys.
And I just hope that all of you,
both of you guys,
your families and everyone else had a
great,
happy Thanksgiving because I was not on
the Tuesday show last week before
Thanksgiving.
I love it.
That was a beautiful message.
I echo that message.
And I said last week,
it's so easy to just be like,
it's not enough.
There's not enough people.
There's not enough listeners.
I'm still blown away when I get a
message from somebody and they're like,
yeah,
I saw the PT Breakfast Club and I
listened to it and you said this thing.
And it's shocking to me.
So
I appreciate you guys.
You guys are showing up.
You're sacrificing.
You're putting other things on the back
burner to be here just like I am.
And the people watching are doing the
same.
So, you know, we're going on like two,
maybe three years now.
It's crazy how long we've been able to
keep this going.
Thank you, Jimmy.
Thank you, Dave.
Thank you, everybody who's watching.
So next week,
I think we should talk about how much
an edge.
Beat that, Jimmy.
Beat those parting shots.
Well, I will.
I will beat those parting shots after a
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So I think we should price.
Let's do that like a real live experiment.
What's this worth?
And then let's talk about live selling
because I think PTs are primed for this.
You have authority.
You have name recognition.
You have a degree.
This is what I want you to,
for a split second, be like,
I'm a doctor of physical therapy.
I want you to say that as the
third line.
Right?
Grateful for you guys.
Excited for all the things I learned.
It is wild when we do hear people.
I'm dumbfounded that people watch and
listen to this.
But even if they didn't,
I still think we'd get value.
Even if we had no listeners or viewers,
even us repurposing this content,
can't be done.
It's a mental exercise.
So kudos to you guys.
We should record eventually,
I've said this several times,
an outro that we could just reuse that
says all the follow Dave at the Dave
Kittle Show on YouTube and Concierge Pain
Relief and Tony Meritato.
We should record that because I forget it
every time.
We'll do that next time.
We'll see you guys on Thursday.