We now have, like, intros that are, like,
old.
Like, that was an old intro.
I like the beat of the old intro,
though.
The beat.
Remember the first time I made it,
it was, like, twenty seconds long,
and then we were like,
we gotta cut that.
That one's six.
That one's six seconds long.
Six is better.
Yeah.
So,
Tony Maritato pulling in the parking lot.
Dave Kittle on the beach.
Yeah.
So he's off.
So we're going to discuss stuff today.
What do we want to start with?
We just decided that we were going to
talk about what today?
Yeah.
So I and I'm going to pitch the
same question to you.
My question and this I'm actually parked
right now.
This applies.
We're going to hit this in different ways.
Jimmy, I know that you did triathlons,
you were an athlete, maybe still are.
My question to you is, realistically,
could a therapist who's never done a
triathlon
effectively treat a triathlete in the
clinic whether it be somebody who's
developed an injury from competing
somebody who's developed a tendinopathy or
an overuse do you think they have the
point of reference even if they've seen
all the videos read all the books
understand what a triathlete has to do can
they effectively develop a treatment plan
and treat that individual
Oh, man,
I'm going to PT this and just say
it depends.
It depends how curious they are.
Because if you say to someone, well,
what's involved in swimming?
There's some shoulder stuff.
There's some kicking.
And now you can't figure out why the
swimmer's elbow hurts.
and you're not willing to go a step
further,
you wouldn't know that sometimes coaches
tell you to really flex your wrist.
And that puts a lot of pressure on
the medial epicondyle.
So like, it just depends.
So if it's a inquisitive therapist,
who's going to keep saying, but why,
but why, but why?
Like if they're just like,
if they got like a little something stuck
in their craw, like I'm pissed,
I can't figure this out.
Then yes.
But if the person's just like,
I understand swimming,
but they've never swam and they're not
willing to look, it's not,
I don't think you need to be an
Ironman to treat Ironman.
That might be like a bold statement.
But if you're not willing to ask people
who've done it or are doing it,
Well, what goes into that?
Or let me double if you if you're
not going to just keep double clicking,
the answer would be no,
you're going to stay on the surface level.
So I don't think you need to necessarily
have done it.
But I think you need to be like,
just ridiculously curious to figure out
what goes into that.
Why is that?
Well,
why is that until you come up with
an answer?
So then let's take that in two directions.
Let's say, you know,
we always hear people talking about
business coaches.
Should you take advice from a business
coach that hasn't built the business that
you want to build?
If you want to get, you know,
the first thing I tell everybody in my
Medicare course is, look,
I am not the guy to take you
to a ten million dollar business.
I've never built a ten million dollar
business.
I've never been there.
It requires a different skill set.
Why aren't these the same?
Or are they like, theoretically,
I might understand the principles of a ten
million dollar business,
but I've never experienced the ten million
dollar business.
I've never,
I've never been in the water at a
quarter mile, you know, and,
and known the feeling of whatever you feel
at that point.
Like, I just don't know how, yes,
I could probably like finagle it and be
okay,
but
Well,
then I would say your resources as a
PT aren't just what you know at that
moment, right?
Because we go to CPGs and we go
to courses or we Google stuff.
So you could say like, well,
I read all about sports psychology and I
understand why you stop and you panic at,
you know, a half mile.
You're surrounded by a half mile of water.
I get it.
So I'm going to say my answer is
yes.
Ben gives an example.
I don't think that the comment is going
to work because it's going to be he
gives a link.
He says he agrees not doing it doesn't
mean you can't become an expert,
but not doing it and not understanding it,
then no.
So I guess he has an extreme example.
I think I know what this is.
I think it's a kicking coach,
like a football kicking coach,
who was never a kicker.
And they're like, well,
I could break this down.
It's this, this, this, this, this,
do this, more this, less this.
Do you ever read the book Blink by
Malcolm Gladwell?
I know it.
I've never read it.
I mean, I'll save you, you know,
twenty three dollars and a couple hours of
your life.
Essentially,
it's like essentially Malcolm was positing
and I'm going to is a rough summation.
We're just we're pattern recognition
machines.
Like there was a guy in the book
who was a free throw shooting expert and
you could cover.
all you would do is show the shooter
and you would cover like the pat.
As soon as the ball left the guy's
hand, you would leave.
You couldn't see it.
And he could like going in, going out,
going in, going out, going in, going out.
Like he knew it because he was like,
it doesn't matter what happens after the
ball.
Nothing's nothing's happening.
Like nothing,
nothing of note is happening after the
ball leaves the hand.
He's like, it's all this.
So he could tell there's a guy on
Instagram called Lee.
His Instagram handles lethal shooter.
And he does these ridiculous shooting
challenges.
Like he'll get like a rim that is
like an eighth of an inch larger than
a basketball.
And he'll just like knock stuff down.
He actually went to St.
Bonaventure University, go Bonneys,
was a really,
really good college player at St.
Bonaventure.
And I'm not knocking my alma mater,
but like he wasn't going pro.
So how is he the guy that gets
brought in when professional NBA players
get a hitch in their giddy up?
He's good at that thing.
I think an interesting aspect here is,
so I started boxing when I got into
Penn State.
I never did like organized sports before
that.
So I did martial arts.
I grew up in a martial arts academy.
I did martial arts forever,
but I never really competed.
Once I got into college and I was
looking for something to do,
I got into boxing as an intramural sport.
And I can tell you, like,
I remember the experience.
First time I got seriously punched in the
face, likely broke my nose.
Blood everywhere.
Like being in that situation is not
something you can understand from reading
and listening and learning in the
classroom.
So we bring in those other aspects.
What got me thinking about this whole
topic is and I'm going to butcher his
last name,
even though I've known him for years.
You would you would probably say it right.
Mark Caragella.
He has just elevated into the next tier
of creators for me.
His TikTok,
his pain stuff is just incredible.
Lorimer Mosley and some of the other guys,
he's in that level for me right now.
Anyway, I'm listening to him yesterday.
I'm walking the dog.
I'm thinking about all the stuff that he's
talking about.
I've been experiencing some back pain.
I don't think you and Dave and I
talked about it.
I had a major flood in my laundry
room on the second floor.
I left.
I came home.
It was like a torrential downpour in my
kitchen because the second floor laundry
had ruptured a hose and water was just
pouring through.
So anyway, so I'm doing repair work.
I've done drywall.
I'm working on the ceiling.
I spend a lot of time in extension
for a couple of days.
My low back is killing me.
Like worst low back pain I've had in
a long time.
And it's got me thinking about, okay,
you know, I've had sore backs.
I've had like fascial pain.
I theoretically understand what my
patients describe to me.
But now I've experienced a very specific
kind of back pain,
like a virtually debilitating back pain.
And so now I feel like I can
better treat certain individuals.
I am going to say it does confirm
my biases,
what I thought I understood to what now
I feel like I understand better.
It's cemented certain ideas for me about
back pain.
But that being said,
I just I see this carry through so
many like categories in life.
Yeah.
Not taking advice from a business coach
who's never run a successful business.
Not taking advice from, you know,
a sports therapist who's never played the
sport that they're trying to coach.
And it's really,
really hard for me watching all of the
social media content to hear somebody
who's never experienced the condition say,
so emphatically telling the patient what
they should be experiencing,
what they should be feeling.
This is what's going on.
You're missing so much of the context of
the experience,
the fear and the anxiety and the
frustration and, you know,
the emotional baggage and the support
systems within the family and like, oh,
yeah,
all of these aspects that you just will
never get out of a book.
Yeah, I agree.
You can tell when someone is telling you
something from a book or when someone has
walked through it.
There's nuance to that.
I'll read Ben's comment in a minute
because Ben, he's dropping paragraphs.
He's dropping full paragraphs.
I love that.
Ben, we'll just send you a link.
We'll get you on the show.
It's easier to read.
I can see that.
I mean, you know.
for a while there,
three or four years ago,
the thing was mentorship for students.
That was the thing everybody was selling.
And I felt really icky about that.
And that was legit.
Like clinicians were like,
do you want to be mentored?
Because I'm a clinician and I've been
doing this for ten years and you've been
doing it for ten weeks.
And do you feel awkward?
And all those things.
It just felt predatory to me.
Like, I don't know.
Like,
there's an exchange of value and people
thought the money was worth it.
So some of the students gave it.
It just felt icky to me.
Yeah.
So yeah,
I get that where someone is like,
I build a seven-figure business.
They love talking figures.
We're going to build seven-figure
businesses and eight-figure businesses.
But you look into their credentials and
they haven't.
And there's something to that.
Well, I would push back on like,
could you as a physical therapist help a
triathlete rehab?
You have extensive knowledge in rehab,
right?
Do you know what I mean?
Like,
it's not like the person is coming off
cold.
Like, so I guess we, you know, the,
the researchers out there will be able to,
to answer or set up this experiment
better.
Who'd be better at helping a triathlete
rehab,
a coach with extensive triathlon
experience,
a PT with a lot of rehab experience,
but no competitive experience.
Like you need to tease that out.
The answer is somewhere in the middle.
The answer is someone who gives a shit.
Ryan Clark is a, he's on ESPN,
but he was a pro bowler,
like three or four time pro bowler for
in the NFL played for the Steelers and
the giants.
I saw him speak at a medical conference
in DC and he had an issue with
I think it was sickle cell anemia or
something with his spleen.
Every test was coming back, you're fine.
And he was like wasting away.
And they're like, you're fine,
you're fine.
He's like, I'm dropping weight.
I can't get out of bed.
I'm a defensive back in the NFL.
I cannot get out of bed.
And the NFL doctor from his team was
like, you're fine, you're fine,
you're fine.
He went and hired his own doctor.
And this doctor sat down and he's like,
all your tests are fine.
And he was like,
Here we go again.
And he goes, no,
something is clearly not fine.
You're telling me you're not fine.
I look at you.
You don't look fine.
I look at a picture of you last
year.
That's not what you look like.
Something's wrong.
And then he's like the message that Ryan
Clark was giving through the room full of
like medical professionals was.
I just need you to give a shit.
So the guy was like,
cause Ryan Clark was like, I'm dying.
He's like,
I'm going to go home and die in
a couple of months.
Cause if this keeps going in the slippery
slope.
And he was just like,
I looked at this guy.
He's like,
I have no idea what's going on,
but we're just going to figure it out.
Like, that's the kind of person you need.
Now the difference is if this is your
business,
like you could have someone make a really
crappy decision and crash your business.
That's different than like crashing your
race, unless you're a professional racer.
but I'm not.
I want to hear Ben's comment because I
can't see it,
but I want to take this idea into,
you know, this is where you're like,
all right, am I treating the condition?
Like I I've never done a triathlon,
but I've sprained an ankle.
Am I treating the ankle or am I
treating the athlete?
This is where you're looking at this as
is,
am I a holistic provider trying to address
all of
these issues nutrition and psychology and
emotion and all that stuff or am I
just here to fix you know a very
discreet mechanical problem what did Ben
say Ben said this he's like all being
said experience is immensely helpful which
is why the guy he was talking about
Doug Blevins is an NFL kicking coach um
Doug is the exception and typically you
find ex-experts
Being leaders like a former dancer,
a former, you know,
where I play beer hockey,
there's a poster of a guy who's like
coaching goalies because he was a
semi-professional ice hockey goalie.
Like he understands it.
Right.
He said it's not a hundred percent the
requirement,
but he would agree to think that the
ex tennis pro who is a PT would
be better to treat tennis injuries than
the average PT who never played.
So it goes back to my PT answer.
It depends,
but more leans to Tony in that probably
the person with experience has insight.
Others don't, I don't disagree there.
Like if I were to come in and
be like, Tony, how many,
how many events are there?
How many parts are there to a triathlon?
What would your,
it's not a trick question.
Yeah.
Three.
I would say it is a trick question
because if you're doing a long-distance
triathlon, it's swim, bike, run, think,
and eat.
You've got a lot of time to think
and be nervous and over-calculate,
and you have to keep eating.
So it's like, oh, yeah,
but a shorter triathlon –
Nutrition, not so much.
When I see people in a sprint triathlon
stopping for water, and I'm like,
you're not going to get sweaty in this
whole race.
It's like you've seen Bolt taking a drink
at the hundred meters.
It's like, I think you'll be okay.
So yeah,
I think insight can definitely help.
I've also seen, I won't say his name,
but there was a great people, Hong Kang.
He was a CI.
He wasn't my CI,
but he was at the clinic I was
at, one of my rotations.
and he just broke he was like don't
overthink it man it's just movement like
why is he's like a baseball pitcher dancer
he's like he just had this way of
looking at things though where he's like
show me the thing that makes you hurt
and like they do it ten times and
he's like okay we do this and he
was just like like dude looked so
disinterested i was like this guy does not
care he's just over in the corner and
was just on his notes and he'd like
look up and be like do this
And he looked so disinterested,
but he got like such great results.
And he only did what he needed to
do.
You know what I mean?
Like there was no wasted effort.
There was no wasted energy.
It wasn't a wasted.
I wouldn't even say it was a wasted
word.
It wasn't even a wasted syllable.
Dude just knew exactly what to do.
And he's like, it's just movement.
What do you do?
So what made you think of this?
Just just it.
Everything goes back into marketing for
me.
So I was sitting here and I'm like,
you know,
I flip through TikTok and Instagram and
I'm watching these younger clinicians that
are coming out, creating content.
I'm thinking about target demographics,
who you're talking to.
And I even think about myself,
like my total knee replacement community.
I've never had a total knee replacement.
I don't care if I've treated hundreds of
patients after knee replacement or
thousands of people online.
It's one of those deals where I've never
been in your shoes.
And I acknowledge it.
I say that.
I'm like, look,
the best thing that I could deliver is
I could say,
you, Mr. Patient,
can talk to your brother, your sister,
somebody you know who had a knee
replacement.
I can bring you the experience of hundreds
of people who have had a knee replacement,
but I've never been there.
I've never experienced it.
And so when I'm thinking of my back
pain at an age of fifty, I'm like,
there's no person who hasn't experienced
what I'm experiencing who can really
understand what I'm feeling
And in my opinion,
I don't think they can create an effective
treatment plan because they're going to
come at me with all their techniques and
their specialties and their biases and
their ideas.
I think I would be really hard pressed
to find a therapist who really understood
exactly what I'm experiencing right now.
You know,
and it's something that has taken me out
of commission from a training perspective.
I haven't run.
I haven't lifted.
There's a bunch of stuff that I literally
can't do.
Doesn't mean I haven't done other things.
Doesn't mean I've stopped working.
Doesn't mean, you know.
I've changed behaviors.
But I just I think if I was
an uneducated consumer who doesn't really
understand what I'm feeling,
coming into a therapist,
and I hate to put an age on
it,
but I'm just going to say like a
twenty five year old therapist,
they're going to take me through all of
these special tests and they're going to
take me through all of these things.
And I'm going to have positive findings
for, you know, yeah,
I probably have had stenosis for twenty
years and I probably had these other
things.
And
I don't know.
It's just so so I go in two
directions with this one.
I don't know that I could find a
clinician who could effectively treat me
for what I'm dealing with right now.
if they don't understand their own
experiences?
And two,
why are we not making this the focus
of our marketing messages?
I know there are therapists who say, hey,
I come from a sports background.
I played collegiate football.
I understand these things.
But I want to see more of that.
I want to see every therapist out there
saying,
I understand, I can empathize,
I can connect with because these are my
personal experiences.
This is what I've been through.
Now, I would share this experience,
but I don't want to because I don't
want a bunch of low back pain referrals.
That is not what I want at my
clinic.
So there's the business side of it that
says stay away from low back pain.
That is not what we do.
That's not the culture of our clinic.
But it just got me thinking from a
marketing perspective,
if I did want that kind of referral,
how would I communicate it?
Yeah.
I mean,
I'd be remiss if my friend Jamie,
who's a psychologist,
were listening because he listens to the
show sometimes and he loves when I try
to bring up,
I try to be an amateur psychologist,
but he did teach me this.
Do you know,
did we talk about this before?
The difference between empathy and
sympathy?
Yeah.
Tell me.
I can have empathy for a woman who's
pregnant and what it's like to give birth.
I can't have sympathy for it because I
haven't done it.
But I can imagine.
Right.
I could be like, oh, man,
look at how she's standing.
Her back must be killing her or whatever.
Gosh,
that must be so uncomfortable after
hearing.
But I can't have sympathy.
Someone else who's done it can have
sympathy.
but knowing that like no two experiences
are exactly alike.
So I don't think Tony needs to get
a knee replacement himself,
even though he doesn't need one just to
go through the process of being able to,
uh, to have it.
There was a doctor who just amputated his
own leg,
but he had a little psychology issue.
He, some people have a thing.
That's a thing.
Yeah.
Seated psychology issue to amputate.
Um,
I think you just need to ask the
right questions, right?
I mean, people will reveal themselves.
Well, what you were getting to,
and I agree,
I think the best compromise for all of
this is if I was going to try
to find a therapist,
go to therapy somewhere,
I would be looking for somebody who's
going to function as an associate,
not a healer.
You know,
somebody who's going to work with me to
help me try to figure this out,
not somebody who's going to say,
I have the cure for you.
This is what we're going to do.
And so...
I think even that kind of line of
thought is something that we should
communicate in our marketing message.
If that's what we want to be like,
I don't want to be the healer.
I don't want to be the guru.
I don't want to be the one that
has the fix.
I tell every one of my patients, look,
I probably don't know.
what the root cause of this problem is.
I'm going to do the best to eliminate
the things that just absolutely don't make
sense.
This doesn't seem like a bone problem.
This doesn't seem like a ligament problem.
This doesn't seem like, you know,
whatever.
And in the process of us eliminating what
we probably don't think this is,
we're going to work on moving,
getting fit, getting strong,
like doing things that don't make you feel
worse and potentially improve your fitness
level and health level.
And maybe at the end,
even if you don't have less pain,
we're going to be healthier.
Maybe we'll be stronger and we're going to
have things that we can use to kind
of control what's going on better than you
have right now.
Like that's the kind of therapist that
I've always been that I want to be.
So I don't need to be an expert.
I don't need to be a triathlete in
order to help them kind of discover the
path back to where they want to be.
I'm just going to come with you along
for the ride.
Yeah.
It's the difference between, um,
the, the, the, the hero and the guide,
like I'm going to be the guide,
but also it's like,
am I being the guide for, uh,
you know,
in terms of rehab or am I being
the guy for performance?
Those are two different things.
You can have someone who's the X Ironman
champion,
who is now really great at coaching.
You could have someone who's a mediocre
athlete,
be a really great coach because they're
just coaching is a skill, right?
And being an athlete is
has a set of skills and you might've
done all the same things, right?
But you just didn't have it.
I don't know.
Your legs weren't long enough or you just
weren't big enough or whatever.
Just as you didn't have it.
So, so yes, I mean, I think,
I think we've seen our fair share.
If you were, if you brought Mark Cargill,
uh,
One example of this would be if someone
asks, I was very confused by this.
We have that pain scale from zero to
ten, where's your pain, right?
And then someone says ten,
and I remember I did this too when
I was a student.
I was like, oh yeah.
you know, tens, we're going to,
you just got stung by bees in the
eyeball with salt.
And they're like, yeah, it's a tent.
And I remember being like, ah,
this person just wants attention or
whatever.
And then you look back at it or
you hear someone like Mark,
and I'm pretty sure it was him having
the discussion is like, how do you know?
Like that person could be sitting
completely calm and they're so used to
what ten is, whatever.
I don't know.
You made the scale up, dumbass.
I answered it.
Why are you mad at me?
Why are you doubting me?
Is it because I'm not screaming and
bleeding, right?
Is that what you're – or are you
trying to teach me something?
It's not that bad, buddy.
Or I've also heard this,
and it's probably an amalgamation of all
of them,
which is like is this person – has
this person said it's a six and it
really hurts and it really hurts four
thousand times?
I'm like,
I guess I have to yell a ten.
We've called a rental car company and
screamed, operate, operator,
because you're just frustrated with the
process.
You're like,
I guess I have to be a dick
to get the result because nothing.
I've been nice.
That didn't work.
Now I need to scream.
So it's like sometimes people are just in
the system.
You put them in the system and they
said ten and you doubted them.
Who the hell are you?
Who the hell are you to doubt them?
Right.
I don't know.
But I think if Mark were here,
he'd bring that up.
Talking about pain scales, I think it was,
I don't even know, fifteen years ago.
I've been practice owner twenty five
years.
So let's go back like fifteen,
eighteen years ago.
I was like, why?
Why am I wasting my time asking patients
for a number when the patient, you know,
on the best of days,
the patient's going to be like, well,
in the morning or in the afternoon with
pain meds or without pain meds?
You know, it's like
We understand the context around pain and
it's so dependent on, are you fearful,
anxiety?
Did you sleep well last night?
Are you hungry?
Like all of these influencing factors.
I'm like, it makes no sense.
So I had transitioned to, okay,
I don't want a subjective pain report.
I'm never going to ask you for a
pain number.
I found the Mankowski,
and I don't know if I'm saying that
right, pain scale,
which had descriptors of what a seven
would be, what a five would be.
And then I would use the physical
manifestation of what I could observe as
an indication of pain level.
But even with that, you know, I mean,
it's completely ridiculous.
Like I would tell you a deep searing
pain.
But it makes me laugh.
My response to discomfort, my response,
even if, you know, something bad happens,
my first response is to laugh.
I have a nervous habit of laughing.
And so I remember a couple of years
ago, I think I fractured an ankle,
stepped on the edge of a basketball court.
It was immense pain.
I was laying on the ground laughing
hysterically because I didn't know what
else to do, you know,
but that is the way pain comes out
for me.
An observer would look at me and be
like, what the heck?
You can't hurt that much.
Right.
So, yeah,
I think the pain scale is absurd.
I think it's ridiculous that we're still
teaching students to use the pain scale.
It's never been an effective tool.
Yeah, Ben said he heard someone say this.
If I used a rusty knife to pull
off your skin right now,
would your pain increase from the ten?
If so, it's not a ten.
Yes.
I get it.
He heard a PT say that once.
I think the only effective pain scale,
have you ever seen this one?
This is the improved pain scale.
Yeah.
Number one might be an itch.
Number two, I just need a Band-Aid.
Number six is bees.
Number nine, mauled by a bear.
I guess that's accurate.
But also, I always like to ask,
or someone smart taught me to ask,
what are you going to do with that
information?
Right.
Yeah.
So it's a nine.
Okay.
Well, that's better than yesterday.
Why don't you look on the bright side?
Um, I'm here and it's a nine.
So I get it.
Let's all look on the bright side.
What are we going to do about it?
What does that nine,
does that nine change any of your
information or not?
Does it change?
Uh, does it change your treatment plan?
If not, I don't know.
Great information.
Good to know.
Yeah.
I agree.
Um,
Anything before we wrap this up?
And I know we had shared some topic
ideas.
If you want to take a look in
the chat.
I've got one.
Go ahead.
So I'm doing this.
I was talking to some people the other
day about...
what we see on like social media right
so what we see and what people are
looking for and the debate comes in or
maybe i just notice it and then it
comes out and then it comes back again
i've seen it ten times in my ten
years and it's how much business content
should be in pt school
Right.
And I look at them and I say,
like, I, first of all, there is,
there needs to be business content or that
school isn't accredited.
So I'm going to defend the academics
there.
There has to be a checkbox list of
those things.
But the question always is,
is it enough to,
And I would always say,
I don't think that's the role of PT
school, right?
It's actually in the name.
If you look very, very closely,
it says physical therapy school.
The school is teaching you how to be
a physical.
I know it's confusing.
It should be school physical therapy.
But there's also a business school.
There's a communication school.
There's a school of psychology.
So I'm not saying no content.
Or if you're curious about it,
there was no content about ice hockey
before.
or gymnastics in my PT program.
But if I wanted to treat ice hockey
players or gymnasts,
I would need to go on to more
schooling or look into it myself.
But anyway,
we got to go in circles and someone
said,
how much business content is on your
podcast specifically?
I'm like, well,
I think it's sprinkled in there.
We're talking about stuff that's related
to business because I think when you boil
business down,
it's a value exchange between people.
It's communicating that.
There's psychology elements.
There's rules and regulations,
which I don't want to touch with a
So I just said, gosh,
I know a lot of people,
but I've never really structured it in
terms of a course.
I've never done it.
I'm also not selling a course.
This is not my prelude to.
For just ninety three dollars,
you can have the MBA.
I'm not doing that.
This will be open sourced.
this will be free.
This will be, uh, uh,
what is it called?
Like, will we create it in a group?
Like just like group, group,
create a group,
think whatever we're doing.
Uh, the, the experts, I am vetting them.
I sort of have to know if they're,
if they've got,
if I would take a course,
if this person were teaching that,
would I trust that person enough to do
that?
So I posted this on LinkedIn yesterday,
not even twenty four hours ago.
Did you see this?
I think I tagged you in it.
I've been an
I tagged you in it, Tony.
I was looking for you to teach a
course.
So I just literally said the MBA,
Masters of Business Administration,
for the DPT.
This would not be in a syllabus.
This would not be in a school.
So I said PT schools taught us how
to treat patients,
didn't teach us how to run a business,
lead a team, design a career.
Because again,
you don't need to just run...
You don't have to just want to run
a business.
You could want to be in a business.
But part of that would be running a
team, all those different things.
So what if we unfixed it?
So...
I created,
and I know this is going to shock
you, Tony, with ChatGPT,
what would the syllabus be for a physical
therapist who wanted to know more about
business?
What would be the MBA light for a
DPT?
And it spit out
A syllabus.
We're going to break up into four
semesters.
So we're going to do this in twenty
twenty six, four quarters,
five or six courses per quarter.
And I just put it out there.
Who wants to teach what course?
And I did not.
Besides you and a couple of people,
I did not ping a lot of people.
This was not like.
an attention grab,
but people have showed up.
Will Boyd just chimed in.
He's like, I'll do number one,
the thing we say we need in school.
I would actually say we need it before
you go to PTs,
before you sign on for a loan.
You have to understand it's too late when
you're doing it there.
But Will Boyd's like,
I'll do money literacy.
Chad Madden, known for marketing, is like,
I'll do marketing one-on-one, right?
Amit is a guy I know who's a
business consultant and has jumped on for
a bun.
I've had Lucas Van Etten from Ohio on
a couple times.
So I'm sort of crowdsourcing these things
where I've said,
these are the things that – this is
how I've used my podcast for ten years.
I want to know some stuff.
I don't feel like paying for the course
or taking too much time.
Could you just like have a beer with
me and like, just give me the beats.
Give me the CliffsNotes.
So you're not going to get a certificate
at the end of this.
You're just not.
But you will walk away with some good
ideas.
So think of this as like a less
scripted,
although I've already had a conversation
with several of these people going,
do you want me to do slides?
Not slides.
Like, is this a conversation?
Is this Q&A?
And I keep pushing back like a good
therapist.
And I go, depends.
How do you picture this?
Does it need slides?
Because we can record the video,
which is fine.
I'm not going to edit it a ton,
if at all.
But the goal is to give people a
taste while you're driving or, you know,
tour from class, tour from clinical,
tour from work.
So that's the idea.
So I'm crowdsourcing that.
And that's my goal for twenty twenty six.
That's my that's my big, hairy,
audacious goal for twenty twenty six.
So what are you teaching, Tony?
I don't know, but I love the idea.
How have we never done that before?
Have you never done that before?
I started to in PT school.
I said, I want to be in sports.
This is back when I thought I wanted
to be a sports physical therapist.
So I was like, I have a podcast.
I will interview someone who's like an
expert at sports.
baseball football track swimming and then
I want to get into we like fencing,
or like,
I don't like weird sports and get into
it.
And what I found is like,
there was some nuance to it but was
it interesting enough to do a conversation
with each kind of,
it was but I lost interest,
I also didn't want to be a sports
physical therapist anymore.
I'm still interested in this.
So look at this.
I get to ride sidecar on this motorcycle
sidecar little journey with these smart
people while they ride around.
And listen,
this is Seinfeld going for coffee in cars
with donuts or whatever his show is.
So that's the syllabus.
I would love for you and Dave to
take a look and see if I missed
anything.
We can always add to it.
I mean, there's no rules here.
And I would like to make it a
mix of people.
I like the fact that someone like Will
Boyd,
or Chad Madden,
who probably could teach five or six of
these was like, I'll take one.
And I like, I mean,
I like that because now I know it'll
be a higher likelihood of them getting it
done because I know how I am too.
But I also like how we're just going
to like, I don't know, man,
mix it up, you know, toss the salad.
Please don't say that.
I wanted to see if I could make
you laugh.
Yeah, no, it's awesome.
I would say, you know,
bringing more voices in is what we want.
I'll just fill in the gaps where needed,
where I can.
Ben said, maybe you do get a certificate.
It says it's not that hard to partner
with an educational institutionalist.
Really?
See,
that's coming from someone like me who's
like, ah, it's probably,
if it's more than four pages of paperwork.
Like I wouldn't still have a driver's
license if it was difficult.
But yeah, you're probably right.
I mean, Matt Kondo is a professor.
He came to me and he would make
a bunch of stuff for my NPTE study
podcast.
We got published somewhere in some journal
that Matt could tell you what it was.
He was like, let's study if...
studying for the NPTE with a podcast like
helps.
And I'm like, okay,
you're in charge of how to do,
I don't know how to do that.
I'll be the podcast guy.
You do the,
and we got published and I could find
that somewhere, but yeah, I guess maybe,
I don't know, Ben, you're smarter than me.
We'll get out a certificate.
I can make something on, well,
first of all,
you can just make certificates.
Like you can go to Canva and you
can just make those.
So good idea.
Stephen Dunn says he's into it too.
He said,
even though some of us old clinic owners
are interested in it as well.
I think if you're an old clinic owner
and you're still around,
it shows that you probably have the desire
to learn more.
Because if you didn't,
you wouldn't have learned more and you
probably would have been phased out by
now.
I mean, you evolved.
So this is built out of my curiosity
and we'll see where it goes.
But I would love suggestions too.
If you think like, oh,
I would love to learn from this person
on this topic.
I don't think they need to be in
PT specifically as well.
I don't think that's a prerequisite.
Look at me using educational terms like
prerequisite.
All right.
That's awesome.
What else do we got?
I was looking through the chat.
Yeah.
I didn't get a chance to read Larry's
recent article.
Did you get a chance to read that?
I think Dave shared it.
I read the title,
and then I read the comments to see
which direction people are going.
But the one you're talking about was the
one he was talking about, Hinge or Sword?
Yeah.
Okay.
What was the general theme that you picked
up?
I mean, well, I mean,
he shared an image of a stick figure
and he's like,
when your three billion dollar AI care
model comes with stick figures and no PT,
how much is actually there was the vibe
that I was getting.
So I shared,
and this is what got me thinking of
it.
So I go through my old photos and
videos.
And actually this morning on the way here,
I shared a post saying, hey guys,
like if you're not capturing photos and
videos just all day long,
you're missing out on a ton of value.
I wanted to get some...
posts out on my Facebook business page and
Instagram and TikTok.
So what I do is I go into
my desktop and I'm like iPhone downloads.
And I just,
I find all of the stuff that I
pull off my phone.
And in the past,
I had found pictures of home exercise
programs.
Now some were stick figures,
some were drawings,
some were photos of people,
but this was stuff like even in the
best of what I found,
It was like Microsoft Word.
You take a photo,
you put it into a Word document,
you type up the description,
and that's the home exercise program.
It's been printed out thousands of times.
And so I shared a post.
Maybe I didn't word it correctly.
You know, kind of saying, hey, guys,
it's two thousand twenty five.
This is two thousand five.
content.
Why are we still producing this?
We want to get paid more.
We want to be better respected.
And yet we're putting junk like this out.
And holy cow,
I was surprised at how many therapists are
like geriatrics don't know how to use
technology.
Geriatrics don't want smartphones.
They need this kind of stuff.
Even if that was the case,
which it's not,
I've got a clinic full of geriatrics who
want me to send them videos on their
smartphones that they can reference with
verbal explanations of what they should be
doing.
But I get it.
Yeah,
like there's still a place for paper
copies of things.
I was just amazed at how resistant
therapists were to saying, hey,
we can make this better.
You know, so I've always said, look,
if I'm going to give you a stick
figure, it's going to be free.
If I'm going to give you something better,
there might be some costs associated with
it,
especially if I'm updating it outside of
billable face-to-face time.
That's a different topic.
But I was just surprised at how resistant
so many therapists were to saying, hey,
we could probably do better than these
stick figures.
Is it...
Is it because it's hard that they would
have to make a change?
Ironically, like, isn't it?
If I were my friend, Jamie would say,
every accusation is an admission.
These geriatrics don't understand
technology.
Oh,
so you don't know how to use anything
better.
Or it's effort on your part to have
to do that outside of, well,
just go over to HEP to go and
hit click, click, click, print.
My grandmother was ninety nine and a half
years.
uh gammy just passed away a few months
ago she was on facebook she was on
she was texting and she wasn't just like
on there like she would chime in the
group chat with the family and make funny
like she knew she had comedic timing at
ninety nine we're gonna round up say she
was a hundred because she was ninety nine
and a half so that is a cop
out especially in twenty twenty five like
i'm wondering when that is going i can
actually hear apta geriatrics members uh
cheering because they've thought they've
known this for years um
Is someone – who's the app?
What's the app?
HEP to go is essentially stick figures,
like, in a printed form.
But, like, hey, listen,
did its job for a long time.
Have we not evolved from that?
Is there nothing out – I know a
lot – I know, like,
every EMR wants to do the thing,
and they sort of have it embedded.
But, like, has anybody done it well?
I haven't seen it, you know,
and I –
My point in sharing that more was not
to necessarily say we need to completely
do away with this, but it's to say,
look, we can do better than this.
And even if you have somebody at the
other end, now my mother-in-law,
I think she's ninety two.
She loves her phone because she can't
hear.
She's got like ninety eight percent
hearing loss.
She can read lips.
If you talk to her directly,
she has no cognitive deficits,
but she loves the phone because she can
read the text message and she can kind
of watch the videos.
And especially with closed caption.
I mean,
it's opened up her world to so many
new things.
So like
There are advantages in both directions.
My thing is, no,
I haven't seen a platform out there that
does it well.
I know there is a way to do
it well.
We just need somebody to figure it out.
You know, that's all I'm saying.
Are we two weeks?
I was going to say,
are we six months to a year away?
But really, are we two weeks away from?
I mean, look,
I don't know how to code,
but we have AI scribes.
I think the issue is like exercises and
movement,
like have all these like jargony terms,
what I might call it this,
you might call it that.
And it's weird.
Now the patient in the middle is like,
I don't really know.
Then if you want to modify someone,
something to do something, do this,
but do it like this, not as deep,
whatever.
So you could record that.
And then add something like an AI video
generator.
So the process would be like, all right,
hey, listen, it's the last five minutes.
You prompt your AI scribe.
Hey, it's the last five minutes.
Let's work on the three exercises I'm
going to give you.
Here's number one.
I'm going to do it.
Add computer vision to this part, right?
Or you could just describe it as now
it gets a little tricky.
You have to be a good describer.
Yeah.
We're going to modify it not as deep.
Got it.
There's video number one.
Let's do video two.
Here's video three.
And then let's get that texted over you.
And now it should be able to be
texted through the EMR because you have
that patient's cell phone number logged in
there.
We can send text messages.
So let me know when my royalties check
should show up.
I'll let you know the address because we
just invented how to do it, right?
But we're there.
Nothing I just said.
The connections between might be broken,
but everything I just said is possible
right now, correct?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think we would probably find that
it's being done in other professions.
I showed you guys, you know,
when my car goes into the shop,
Toyota puts it up on the lift.
The mechanic takes a phone.
I don't know if it's his phone or
the company's phone.
records a video showing me the
undercarriage of my car,
showing me the wheel,
showing me the inspection that he's doing
in real time,
shoots that video over to me so that
I can then make a decision to say,
yes, I want this,
this and this and pay for it right
then and there over the phone.
My car is literally still on the lift
when I make that decision.
You know that that is an app where
he is,
I'm guessing the mechanic is prompted.
It's an oil change.
It brings up an oil change template.
Yeah.
Okay.
Video one, show you,
I need to see the dipstick,
pull the dip video of the dipstick, right?
He's probably got a chest mount so he
can be doing the thing while he's showing
you things with his hands and whatever
that app costs to develop.
I mean, that's like, it's bold.
It's like creating a video.
with guardrails.
It's bowling with bumpers.
It's like, you can't really miss.
It's like, okay,
shoot a ten-second or less video of you
showing the dipstick and walk through what
we've said.
Or it's got the script right on it
and a teleprompter.
And then you hit next and it brings
you to the, okay,
now go to the tire and show the
tread.
Even if the tread is good.
Right?
Because that shows your tread is good.
Look, this is the tool we measure it.
And you still got a ways to go.
Come back in a couple thousand miles and
we'll check it again.
You do those eight point,
fifteen point inspections and you show,
not tell.
Everybody's favorite day was show and
tell.
But every day is a tell day at
school.
Not every day are you allowed to bring
in something cool and show people.
So that was that was showing.
I, we,
there have been a lot of apps that
have tried to do this, right?
Like postural apps and things like that.
I think the pushback there is they're
like, dude,
like that's not really showing, you know,
everybody's different.
We're not tires.
I know the body mechanic analogy works,
but doesn't.
Um,
I do like the use of video to
show people results though.
I think that's good.
Look,
look at personal trainers or people in
weight loss.
That's their bread and butter.
So what's interesting here,
and I'll just share what I do.
Everybody who comes through my door signs
a media release,
signs the normal HIPAA privacy notice,
signs all of that stuff.
Usually on the first session and then
periodically throughout the plan of care.
I'm recording content.
And you can see it on any of
my media.
Two or three things.
This is what we're going to do.
This is what your home program is.
I record it while you're in the clinic.
I immediately text it to your phone so
that I have confirmation you received it,
I sent it,
but I also have the privacy notices in
place because I'm gonna share it.
And they know that I'm gonna share it.
This benefits me and the patient in
several ways.
One, the patient sees themself.
They're not seeing a fitness model.
They're not seeing a twenty-year-old.
This goes back to the beginning of the
show where we said this is relatable.
You see a real human that happens to
be you.
You hear what the therapist is telling you
because it's my voice coming through the
phone behind the camera.
You hear the instructions.
You hear the reps and sets.
You hear the frequency.
You hear everything that's supposed to
happen.
I can capture, let's say, a minute
And that minute that would have normally
been paid for by the insurance and never
gotten paid again,
I can capture that minute of time and
monetize it for the next five to ten
years.
Because social media is going to continue
to pay me if it's a good clip
and if other people want to see that
clip.
I can provide access to individuals
anywhere in the world to hear what a
physical therapist in the United States
would be telling them if they had the
same condition completely for free.
That person in India gets free access to
care.
I get paid by the advertisers and
potentially the product company.
My patient gets the best possible example
and explanation of what they should be
doing at home until we update the home
exercise program.
And I do it in the session.
So it's not like I have to take
time away that's not billable forever.
or take time away from other people to
go in and create the HEP and do
all of this stuff.
I am doing this at point of contact
as part of the paid treatment session.
To me, it makes so much sense
And now,
does every single patient who walk in my
door want a service like that?
No.
Okay.
So I don't do it for them.
But it's a vast minority of people,
less than a ten percent,
who don't want that.
Most of the other people do want that
service.
Why aren't you sharing these things?
Tony just turned his clinic into show and
tell day every day.
Was talking with someone the other day.
I won't say who.
but they were looking to raise their
rates.
And how do they do that?
Did we talk about this?
We might have talked about this on the
side.
So they were going to raise their rates.
I forget what it was.
Let's say they were going to raise them.
They haven't done it in five years.
They have to raise it twenty percent,
which is actually should be advocating for
you to raise your rates more often.
So it doesn't need to be twenty percent
to stay afloat.
So I'll just that that's a little mini
lesson right there.
But what I had suggested was.
Here's a crazy idea.
Here's someone who's never done it,
throwing out a Hail Mary.
A what if?
I haven't done it, but let's try it.
So my suggestion was,
what if you said you have to rate,
we're raising our rate,
we're raising our rate.
We're raising our rate.
with a hundred houses in it,
you go submit plans to the town board
for seven hundred and fifty houses and
they talk you down to a hundred houses
and you're like, fine, you win,
I'll only do a hundred,
we'll scale this back, right?
So the idea there being is,
Each choice is a win.
You're like,
do you not want to be on camera?
You're not going to sign the release.
That's fine.
It's totally your thing.
We give a ten percent discount.
I'm sure I think I'm wondering if someone
seal coats my driveway or paints my house
and then there's a sign in my lawn
for two weeks.
Did I get something for that or am
I just being nice because the guys were
good?
Like I'm always like.
No, I paid you.
You did the thing I paid you.
You don't get to advertise on my lawn.
But I know people who've said, oh,
you know what?
We'll give you two hundred fifty bucks
off.
It was never did the two hundred fifty
bucks that you were going to take off
was going to go in that guy's pocket,
like just right to have a driver.
But that's the idea.
So what do you think of that strategy?
Listen,
we're going to we're going to increase
prices.
Thirty percent.
We'll give you ten percent off if you
sign the social media release.
I like the idea.
I don't like the strategy.
First, let me ask you, why twenty percent?
Why was this person doing twenty percent
at all?
They hadn't raised their rates in a
million years and they were like,
we can't stay solvent.
And I'm like, OK,
so why aren't you charging more?
I feel bad.
I don't want to raise my rates.
My patients can't pay it.
I'm like, do you know that?
Twenty percent just seems like it's not
even worth it.
You know, I think more.
Yeah.
Yes.
I don't know what their base rate is.
One percent was was too much for this
for this clinician who was like,
I don't I can't rate I can't raise
any rates.
But that's the thing.
If you're going to go through the pain,
if you don't want to raise rates,
one percent, twenty percent,
fifty percent, it's all going to hurt.
Let's just go for fifty percent.
You know, now, again,
I don't know what the rates are, but.
If you're you,
twenty percent just seems like it's it's
in that uncomfortable zone,
but not really going to make an impact.
Let's overshoot,
which is kind of what you're saying.
Right.
I don't like making the value exchange of
let me record media.
Because I think people are going to let
you record it anyway.
I don't think you're gaining any benefit
from that.
I do love the idea of saying, hey,
we're going to double our rates.
But for existing clients,
we're going to give you fifty percent off
of that.
So you're only going to get a fifty
percent increase, you know,
and I would just leave it at that.
Like it's a reward for being a longtime
client that you're not going to go to
three hundred dollars.
You're you're only going to go to two
hundred dollars.
I think that's plenty of thank you for
being a customer.
I would also say if you're going to
raise twenty,
you're going to lose people no matter
what.
You have to raise enough to make up
for the number of people you lose.
But to your main topic here,
People love media.
Either they love it or they hate it.
If they don't want it,
they're not going to do it anyway.
If I went into an exchange to say,
hey,
I'm going to record and share this in
exchange for something,
I would go straight on.
Look, I'll treat you for free.
Right.
We've got plenty of individuals that come.
They get referred to us.
They have high deductible plans.
They absolutely cannot afford therapy.
I would do an exchange with that person
saying, hey, I want to see you.
I know you can't afford it.
I know nobody else.
Somebody called yesterday.
They got quoted three hundred dollars an
hour at another larger corporate clinic.
You know, so we're like, look,
we can work with you on this.
This is what we're going to do based
on your diagnosis,
not having evaluated you.
This is really what I think you probably
need.
We gave him a flat rate and we're
like, do with that what you want.
Right.
But my point being is, yeah,
just twenty percent seems crazy to waste
all of that effort.
Go for fifty percent or more.
I would not do twenty.
One percent was too much.
I can't believe I have to raise the
rate.
And I'm like, my man, like,
have you have you have you watched
television for the last twenty years?
Like everything's more expensive.
Yeah.
You know, the whole conversation is.
And once people,
once someone put this in perspective for
me, you can't unsee it,
which is people complain about needs,
not wants.
I will complain about the price of food,
gasoline, health insurance.
Those are needs, not wants.
I need those things.
I die without them.
Food, shelter, clothing, medical care.
Have you been to a, well,
what's the team that you go to?
You're the Reds fan, right?
For baseball, we're the Reds.
For football, Bengals.
What's a night out at the Reds to
watch the Reds play for you and the
kids?
This is a great example.
We can go to a Reds game.
Decent seats, not great seats,
not terrible seats are going to be like
thirty five dollars.
And then, you know,
you're going to pay for food.
You're going to pay for parking.
I mean, there's six of us.
Right.
My wife, myself, the four kids.
You're talking about a five hundred dollar
deal.
event and that if we went to football
it's like two hundred dollars a ticket for
like just the same quality nine home games
that's it only nine home games there's
eighty uh two home games in or eighty
one home games in professional baseball i
went to i went to a yankee playoff
game somebody got tickets the tickets
weren't crazy so it was yankees red socks
wild card series
hundred and twenty five bucks for the
ticket.
I was like sold.
Like,
what am I going to see this again?
My best friend is a Red Sox fan.
So he's like, we got to go.
I'll get the drinks because he organized
the we went with a bunch of dudes
bus ride down there.
I was like, I'll get the first round.
I got a vodka soda.
The guy at the counter goes single or
a double.
And I'm like,
we're we're at Yankees Red Sox.
When are we going to do this again?
Double it up, my man.
And then the guy says,
how much do you think two double vodka
sodas in left field at Yankee Stadium was?
I got a story too,
but I'm going to be the nice guy
and I'm going to say fifty bucks knowing
that it's more.
It was fifty five dollars each.
Each drink was fifty five.
But we got to keep the cup not
to keep.
We got to keep the cup.
What's your story?
Yeah,
we have some really great friends of ours.
They have like really great seats,
box seats, you know, free food,
all this stuff.
So I'm like, hey,
I'm going to get around to drinks.
I'm going to go to the bar.
Meanwhile,
I've never been to this section of the
ballpark.
I'm like, hey,
let me get to whatever the drinks were.
One for my wife, one for his wife.
And the guy's like, all right,
that'll be fifty dollars.
So what?
their little drinks.
I was like, holy cow.
But again,
so going back to the person who's raising
rates, it's like,
have you never been somewhere that
something was painfully expensive?
I'm sure you have.
And you have a decision.
Do I want to buy it or not?
I'm not forced to buy it.
You know,
and this is where we get into that
weird dynamic.
And I know we're running out of time
where it's like, hey, is this something?
And I think what killed us as a
profession was when we got into medical
necessity.
Right.
Because if you're going to tell me
something is medically necessary.
Oh, is that your cup?
Yes.
So the cup,
it's one hundred and ten dollar cup.
Um, if something's medically necessary,
I'm going to feel terrible expecting you
to pay if it's something that you can't
afford.
Right.
But I'm sorry, guys,
this is not medical necessity.
Like it's not life or death.
Like it's a nice to have, you know,
yes, you could function better.
You could survive better.
We improve quality of life.
We do so many of these things,
at least in my clinic,
it's not life or death.
It's not medically necessary.
And so when I would share the Maslow
pyramid,
you clearly see the higher you go on
that pyramid, the less necessary it is,
but the more valuable it is,
the more people are willing to pay for
it.
So let's do parting shots.
It's a fifty dollar parting shot.
If you're going to go through the pain
of raising prices, raising your rates,
do not do this little ten percent,
twenty percent like go big or go home.
Don't waste your time.
I would say fifty percent minimum.
Yeah.
Most people could probably double if
you're struggling with the idea of raising
your rates,
you're probably undercharging already.
double those rates,
and then you can always offer discounts
and be more flexible.
What's your parting shot?
This is the line that I used once.
I had a large educational organization who
was like, we want to launch a podcast.
We want to do this, this, this, this,
this.
And I let them talk and talk and
talk.
And every time they said they wanted
something,
I would write it down on a line,
on a line, on a line,
on a line, on a line.
And then I said, this is the rate.
And they're like,
can you do it for half?
And my line was,
I don't know how to hit half a
home run.
Half a home run is a pop out
to second base.
Yeah.
Do you want to pop out to second
base?
And then I said,
I know ten people that can do it
cheaper.
It's not going to be as good,
but they'll do it for that,
but not me.
Sounds like Chris Doe.
Yeah, it's not big-timing someone,
but if I had said yes to get
the client,
I'm just going to tell you this.
It's a treadmill.
It's a hamster wheel.
You don't move.
There's movement.
You're burning calories,
and you're doing stuff,
but you're not going anywhere if you do
things like that.
You're just trying to maintain,
and it feels icky.
You know how many times I've had my
finger hovering over the send button on
like an, like on a, on a quote.
And I've said like, I can't believe this.
I can't believe it.
And you send it and I'm like,
can I unsend it?
And most of the time, if you've clearly,
this is, and I'll have a parting,
parting shot.
If you've clearly described value,
That person never complains.
They might say, no, I don't have it.
And it's not a negotiation.
I would also say making sure that is
very clear.
And this is where I think PT almost
gets a pass.
It's very ambiguous.
Well,
how long do I have to show up,
Tony?
I don't know.
For a while.
So I don't know what this is.
Is this ongoing?
So that is sort of the part of
our profession that sucks is people might
pay something, think they're getting this,
but they just don't.
Why?
Bodies, science, biology, life, it sucks.
That's where I do like the idea of
a flat rate and then continuing care,
things like that.
You can get creative,
as Tony just talked about.
Dave will be back from the beach,
I believe, next week.
Hopefully, he will have a tan.
There's at least four dozen pictures of
Dave with his shirt off running on the
beach, probably.
Guys, he knows how to get the attention.
So we'll be back.
Oh, we'll be back on Thursday.
Never mind.
I thought today was Thursday for a hot
second.
I will be in Reno.
I'm going to AOMT, the AOMT Conference,
American Association of Orthopedic Manual
Physical Therapists.
I was out there last year.
Now I'm going to Reno.
I hope I still have some money left.
All right, guys.
Don't forget Dave Kittle's show,
PT Pinecast, Learn Medicare Belling.
We'll see you guys on Thursday.