all right that's dave kittel i'm jimmy
mckay tony maritato is off today and by
off i mean he's doing his actual job
uh dave how's it going on this lovely
thursday get a little brisk here in the
northeast it's getting a little brisk
feeling great how are you today i'm doing
good we've got some good topics you were
digging you were digging online
That's why I was a little bit late
calling the live show.
I like it.
All right,
so one of those things that I liked
very quickly,
and I want to hear why you put
it on the list of things to talk
about,
was the guy who owns six gyms in
New York called The Athletic Club.
I've never heard about The Athletic Club,
but if you own six gyms in New
York, you must be doing something right.
I mean, something.
I don't know what it is,
but why was this on the list?
What do you want to talk about here?
sure so this was started during covid this
was originally free outdoor workouts
apparently i listened to a podcast of this
guy uh talking about his company athletic
clubs uh dane mccarthy i think it is
so it's interesting it's a it's a
different model and i know you used to
live in new york city but let's say
you were you know back when you were
living in new york city i could join
your workout group
It's the same people.
So it's Dave, Jimmy, it's Tony Meritada.
It's the same six, eight, whatever,
ten people for every Tuesday,
Thursday at five p.m.
or every Monday and Friday at eight a.m.,
whatever it is.
It's the same exact people,
which is interesting because it's.
It's group fitness,
but it's the same folks,
not just like Orange Theory.
Every other place is different.
Orange Theory, F-Forty-Five,
any other HIIT class is like you have
your own schedule or you go whenever you
want or you don't.
And this is genius in terms of business
model because it's going to make people
really sticky because I'm going to then
learn
about Jimmy's family, Tony's family,
their work stuff.
You get to learn and build relationships
more with people.
And if that person's sick or late or
whatever,
then the company doesn't even have to
reach out to the actual gym member because
other people are going to be like, hey,
Jimmy, what's going on?
Are you sick?
Did something happen?
Are you hungover?
What's going on?
Why aren't you here?
And it's a unique model that I think
would make for a very sticky member to
continue to pay month over month,
year over year.
And so that's probably how they went from
one to two and two to three and
all that.
I love the model.
I think it's genius.
I'm actually surprised that Orange Theory
and all these others don't do the same
type of thing.
don't they they don't do that or i've
never done an orange theory class but i
would assume that you that well i'd say
organically those bonds probably form some
places but this place is it's clearly
built around those things
exactly so my wife annie goes orange
theory yes she recognizes some people that
are similar same same type of thing i
used to go to la fitness uh when
i was in uh high school and college
and you know summer's home from college
and if you went to la fitness at
the same time every that day of the
week all the time like yes you would
see the same type of people
But sometimes you wouldn't.
Right.
You would see other people or whatever.
So it's kind of part of some people's
gym experience,
but it's kind of like a leisurely like,
oh,
I saw that person here like five times.
And then I might say to Jimmy, like,
hey, like, what's up, man?
Like, I like your shoes or like whatever,
whatever.
I like I like your iPod, whatever,
whatever.
We spark up a conversation.
Oh, can I jump in?
Can we, you know,
can I work in here and all that?
So it just happens like building
relationships at a regular gym or group
fitness facility.
It just takes longer for the members to
meet each other.
It's genius in terms of
having your members stay sticky.
Then over time you roll that snowball down
the mountain and it becomes an avalanche
because your original members stay and
then you're marketing and you're getting
new members.
And, um,
also with this company athletic clubs uh
ann malum the the founder of solid core
she sold solid core raised a bunch of
money built out solid core to like a
hundred locations something insane and she
sold solid core for like eighty ninety
million dollars she invested in this guy
dane's company called athletic clubs so
they've been friends or whatever and
that's the podcast episode that i watched
and listened of them two talking about
athletic clubs so
it's unique and different i just i don't
understand i mean maybe there's a way for
us to cross over it's like you know
physical therapy i know tony has said some
things over the years of like the same
types of times of the day or the
same days of the week and you could
potentially have some type of a self-pay
you know group
rehab group i don't know group self-pay
group support group or group you know pt
or something around you know like your dad
like a stroke or parkinson's or back pain
or whatever so they're they're in there is
in engineering terms they'd call it a
point of failure there's the point of
failure in my opinion i think that they
should i agree with you this should be
done here's the point of failure why in
my opinion it won't be done because
medical
If you break down the word,
if you use the Latin roots,
I'm only kidding,
I have no idea what the Latin roots
are in medical, although I did take that.
But that also means hyper-personalized,
or I should say it feels everything needs
to be,
we go back to this term against our
professional lot, one-on-one and custom.
And I would push back and I go,
well, generally, right?
We learned in school,
someone with this condition needs
generally these things.
I'm not saying that there's not nuance,
But I think as soon as you cross
over to healthcare and then group,
that's where those things kind of,
they butt heads.
Organizations have done what this guy,
Athletic Club,
is doing successfully before.
The first one I experienced was,
The team in training,
are you familiar with team in training
from the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society?
No.
I want to run the New York City
Marathon, but it's a lottery to get in,
and I don't really know what I'm doing.
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society comes along.
They talk to the marathon.
They said, give us a hundred entries.
We're going to go essentially raffle them
for charity.
Jimmy comes along and goes,
I want to do the marathon.
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society says,
I can get you in.
Just fundraise two thousand dollars for me
for Leukemia and Lymphoma Society
research.
And we'll give you a coach,
which is mostly a volunteer.
So I have to show up on Saturdays
at the National Mall and do my long
run of the week with these strangers on
week one.
And by week eleven,
we're texting each other and we're hanging
out.
So it's embedded in the thing.
And then on race day.
So leukemia lymphoma society said,
how can I turn these Yahoo's who are
all, all,
all across the area who have nothing in
common other than they'd like to
accomplish something.
How could I help them accomplish that?
Dot, dot, dot, and raise some funds.
It's the same thing with this business.
I mean,
that's really – you're going to the gym
to get healthy, but there is an aspect.
We're all humans.
Maybe we're not aiming for it.
Personally, when I go to the gym,
I'm not necessarily aiming for it,
but I have been in clubs, triathlon clubs.
I don't like to run with a group.
I do like to bike with a group,
mostly because biking is long and
monotonous and it's better.
Misery loves company.
So I think you're playing on that where
it works.
Wasn't there,
wasn't there the Lincoln project?
Wasn't that a workout club too?
They started working out,
I think during COVID mass outdoor workouts
in the spring and summer of twenty twenty
and I think twenty twenty one same
concept.
But this guy is now has six locations.
So he is he has jumped.
He has jumped from we're just this loose
hangout social movement.
And now they are brick and mortar.
And the thing that struck out stuck out
to me is.
was the first three and a half seconds
of the reel that you shared,
the Instagram reel,
the video you shared with me was,
if you hate Instagram, sorry, Equinox,
you're gonna- And Equinox,
if you don't know,
Their angle is we are the bougiest of
bougie gyms in New York City,
and our towels smell of lavender,
and they are as soft as clouds,
and we are – I don't even know
what Equinox costs.
I'll Google it in a second when I
let you talk after going on a rant
for five minutes.
But, like, not cheap.
Wherever they are, not cheap.
So these guys essentially – I love the
positioning.
It's like if you like that,
you're going to hate us because we are
not that.
My ears perk up because I'm like, dude,
I would never go to an Equinox personally.
Yeah,
and I just love the video that he
posted,
the one that I share with you guys
of like, hey, if you love Equinox,
like you're going to hate us.
And if you want if you want all
these amenities like a big locker room and
like a ton of squat racks and a
ton of cardio machines to choose from and
space and I don't know.
uh,
perfect professional lighting and
whatever, what,
I don't know what else are there pools
and saunas and things like that.
And in an, uh, equinox, like what other,
other like kind of like health and
wellness services.
Like if you want that type of stuff,
you're, you're not for us,
like you should go there.
But if you're looking for it,
I forget what he says,
but if you're looking for, I don't know,
um, you know, deeper relationships,
more accountability, uh,
that's the thing that's also super
interesting with the whole business model.
you can sign up for uh you can
sign up for orange theory and you can
pick like either you could do unlimited
you could do you know one you could
do four classes a month you could do
eight classes a month right so you could
do one class a week or two classes
a week uh but if you don't book
a if you don't book a workout i
don't at some point maybe you get like
an automated email probably not if you
don't go to a workout but you're paying
Orange Theory,
or if you're paying LA Fitness,
or if you're paying Equinox,
no one's coming for you.
They don't care.
They're going to just keep taking your
money, just like Planet Fitness,
people that sign up for, yeah,
it's a bit, their business model.
You sign up for Planet Fitness, you know,
it's wildly popular.
Ninety-something percent of people do not
even go to Planet Fitness because it's so
cheap.
It's ten dollars a month,
and I think Alex Ramosi said ninety-two or
some crazy number,
like ninety-two percent or
ninety-something percent of people
that sign up for Planet Fitness,
do not go to a Planet Fitness,
which is bonkers.
Now, this is the opposite.
This is like, we are,
you have to come.
Otherwise,
they'll probably kick you out because
it's, you know,
the intention is to actually come and
build rapport, you know, be in the group,
build like that camaraderie,
almost like a team sport kind of thing,
like, you know, high school sports,
college sports type of thing.
And along the way,
you get the accountability.
You get kind of like that peer pressure
of like, oh, I need to show up.
I need to like not stay out late
or I need to get up early and,
you know,
make sure I get there on time.
And then guess what?
You'll be getting results faster.
Like you're, you know, better health,
weight loss, if that's your thing.
If you're focusing on that muscle mass
gain, like whatever, whatever it is,
you're going to get those results faster
because of this whole structure that Dane
built.
It's fascinating.
Why?
It's because what's the biggest factor in
results?
Accountability.
And the accountability breeds you showing
up.
Consistency.
You doing a pretty okay C-plus workout,
is way better than doing eleven A-pluses.
It just is.
This is not my opinion.
This is fact.
You can check me on the C-pluses and
the A-pluses.
Three hundred dollars a month is what
Equinox costs.
I was just looking that up.
But you...
It's got to be more in the cities,
right?
Or is Equinox mostly just in cities?
I don't know.
That's just what I searched.
It ranges between two and three hundred
dollars a month.
A month.
It's not cheap.
But you're buying... People also say,
I've heard when I was living in New
York, like, oh, Equinox, like,
either work pays for that,
so it's a perk through work,
which they're probably balking at,
or I write it off because whatever I
do, I say this is a networking place.
Because it is.
Let's face it.
Like, this is very much like...
a networking place.
But the same type of thing that we
say like, oh,
my insurance covers it or not,
like for physical therapy or whatever.
If your work pays for Equinox,
you're paying for it somehow, right?
You're paying with your time being with
that company or whatever,
even if it's complete, a hundred percent.
I'll take the extra three hundred bucks a
month in my check and I'll put a
squat rack in my basement.
what i would do i mean right but
the company the company's gonna say no
we're not gonna give you three hundred
dollars extra it's either you get a free
membership you know because they probably
get volume based discounts or something
anyway what do you what do you think
the real hang-up is was i right like
as soon as it becomes medical saying group
makes us feel like we're not specific and
we're not we're not laser focused on the
person in front of us but like all
the research and a lot of things that
i pay attention to have said like hey
yeah getting people to show up is the
biggest hurdle showing up and completing a
plan of care
Looks like group activities lead to,
I mean,
I would need someone to prove this.
This is just all my,
this is my feelings,
my hopes and my dreams.
Group activities feel like when you sign
up,
you complete that group activity because
of this social construct.
Are we ever going to do that?
And would it be successful?
The challenge is, again,
it just goes against the norm of what
every physical therapy practice has always
done,
which is we're going to treat everyone
one-on-one.
They get an assessment.
They get an evaluation.
They get a treatment plan, a game plan.
Couldn't you do both?
Couldn't you?
Yes, you get an evaluation.
I am now saying that you are appropriate
for this class.
I have these three classes.
Based on your evaluation,
your personalized evaluation,
one-on-one with Dr. Dave,
you're going to be in our number two
class.
with a goal to maybe work up to
our number one class in six months.
And then there's periodic, Hey,
number one, in case of fire break glass,
if there's ever an issue, I'm right here.
And you, and you talk to me.
And then along the way,
there's these chickens.
Hey, like every three months or month,
whatever you, you, you build it into the,
into the, into the cake that there's a,
there's another evaluation, right?
We do that.
That's called a reevaluation.
I, I, so there's some,
there's some that do this,
like reload physical therapy, like Dr.
Ryan Chow here in the city.
And there's some other practices that do.
Doesn't Rocksteady do it too?
Rocksteady, that's whole thing, right?
Like Parkinson's.
Well, yeah, Rocksteady is, is all group,
you know,
boxing typically kind of formulated around
folks with Parkinson's,
but I don't like that.
Like Rocksteady is just the group fitness
boxing.
I don't think any physical therapists,
they might be involved in terms of some
instructors.
They are.
But it was meant to just be like
a workout class for punching and for
rotation and all that for folks with
Parkinson's.
There's not enough practices doing this.
And there's always that great virtuous
cycle of if you have folks in a
group fitness class that happen to be in
a physical therapy office,
once some of them get banged up dinged
up they get some new episode they wake
up with neck pain whatever it is they
can immediately like schedule that day for
like a different they could go into the
fitness class but then they could also say
hey my neck is painful when i get
up out of bed or whatever or while
sleeping i could schedule an evaluation
maybe continue in the group fitness class
go through physical therapy get treated
feel better get right back into the group
fitness class and both are there to feed
each other
I don't know why more practices don't do
it.
Well,
this is why practices open in gyms or
next to a gym or embedded in a
gym.
So it's yin or yang or yan or
ying.
It's a gym in a PT clinic or
a PT clinic in a gym.
I think the average person doesn't
understand the difference,
although I think they understand what a
gym looks like better than a PT clinic.
It's like, I don't know,
rubber bands and BOSU balls in a PT
clinic and then heavy stuff in a gym.
And I would venture a guess that most
PTs would say, yeah, we're all that,
but we're not.
We are a separate thing.
And I think that's, I don't know,
that feels like a limitation to me.
So this guy's doing well because he builds
in social bonds.
I would love to hear from someone doing
this already.
And you mentioned a couple of people doing
this already.
I know, and I've talked about her before.
I'll get her to come on the show,
but my friend Megan Brown has nothing on
her website about physical therapy.
She runs a Pilates studio,
Pilates and yoga,
in one of the most competitive zip codes
in the country,
one of the most expensive zip codes in
the country, Alexandria, Virginia.
And she's doing group Pilates,
but she's doing it with the eye of
a PT.
And she's getting people of all sorts of
activity types who show up regularly with
this, not as formal,
but like these bonds occur.
And you feel that.
I don't know how many people feel bummed
out if they missed their PT appointment.
But if I missed a group bike ride
when I was training for a race,
I did feel like I let someone down.
And that's simple to build in,
but not easy to build in.
You need to create a community where I
think most PT clinics are worried about
their EHR and credentialing than they are
worried about community because that's the
system they work in.
I'm not poo-pooing either side.
I'm saying it's a great idea,
but it's not easy to accomplish right off
the bat.
Yeah.
So in terms of pricing,
I'm trying to find the pricing for, so,
and the website is the dash athletic
clubs.com.
And I asked chat GPT for the pricing,
but it pulled up the old historical New
York athletic club, which I, that was,
that was a,
that was a different brand and a
different,
I remember when I first moved to New
York,
When I first moved to New York as
an adult, I was like,
I need a gym and let's look at
gym prices in New York.
And it really was like low, medium, high.
And it was like New York Athletic Clubs
was like, I think on the lower end,
Equinox was the high end.
And I lucked out because I had a
JCC,
I had a Jewish community center in my
neighborhood.
Like, I don't even,
I didn't even like telling people about it
because I was like,
don't ruin this little secret for me.
It was, in my opinion,
as good as Equinox.
And never full.
I wouldn't say never full, but yeah,
definitely not like busting at the gills,
but it had a pool.
That was the thing I need.
I was a swimmer.
So I was like,
I need to have a pool.
And there was like one New York athletic
club that had a pool and I had
to go like thirty blocks.
So people like, where do you work out?
I'm like,
I'd never like to tell them because it
was the best kept secret in New York
for me.
It was the JCC on the Upper West
Side,
seventy fifth or something like that.
The pool overlooked Central Park.
I'd be breathing between sets and looking
at Central Park.
Again,
I didn't like telling people that because
it was a goldmine.
Was that the one on the west side?
West side, Seventy-Fifth.
Yeah.
Yep.
Beautiful building.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Don't,
but don't go there because I don't want
to ruin it for the other people.
Is this the future?
I don't know, man.
I've been, you know,
I graduated in twenty sixteen,
almost ten years ago,
and I feel like this would make business
take off your PT hat.
Would this make business sense if you had
a brick and mortar clinic?
This whole group fitness dynamic?
Wouldn't this be good to like beta test
or like intrapreneur and say, okay,
for the next twelve months,
you over there in the corner,
your job is to get one group of
five people to show up five times and
see how many times you can do that.
And what are the elements that you have
to play with?
None of the elements have to do with
anatomy or physiology.
Everything has to do with psychology.
And if we're going to engineer it,
I think the first thing you say,
so with athletic clubs,
it's like you would work, you and I,
or whoever the group,
we would work out like the same time
every Tuesday, Thursday,
or the same time every Monday, Wednesday.
So yes, if you had like, if you,
if your physical therapy office,
if you had, you know,
five to ten patients that you're trying
to, you know, launch this,
you say to them, like,
you you have to come like you there
unless you're sick or whatever you're not
feeling well ill whatever of course but um
the intention is like you're gonna get
text messages from every other group
member like saying where are you what's
going on or whatever like why are you
are you sick or are you sleeping in
or why are you why being lazy or
whatever i mean and getting that like
group accountability i think if you took
if you started with that and you said
it's the same people every single time and
you kind of build it around that,
I think that that's literally,
I think this is how he,
how Dane started.
It was like free workouts outside during
COVID.
Right.
And then they eventually tightened it up
in terms of like, I don't know,
the brick and mortar first,
or it was the squads out, you know,
outside, it was the same people that came,
you know, every day and time,
same time and every day,
the same day of every week.
and then they moved into the brick and
mortar i'm not sure which one came first
there but either way like it may it
seems like it makes it super sticky so
for any physical therapy practice that
wants to add this why wouldn't you say
yeah you take five of your most you
know avid patients clients that want to
have the accountability and relationship
building in your office boom that's how
you do it i want to
flesh this out but i want to find
a psychologist because i think we have the
fitness aspect down and we know what the
result wants to be it's the how do
we get there that's the problem you
mentioned the word sticky did you ever
read the book by the heath brothers
made to stick.
Essentially, it's a marketing book,
but it explains why some things stick
around and why some things don't,
why people grab onto things and why people
don't.
I think it's exactly that.
You have to make this sticky.
And I think there are things you can
do on purpose.
thoughtfully that you can build you can
bake into the cake right my cake analogy
is like if you forget to put sugar
in the cake batter and then and you
were called for a cup of sugar you
bake the cake you pull it out of
the oven you realize you forgot the sugar
you could put ten times the amount of
sugar on top of the cake take cake
still gonna taste like crap you have to
bake it in there from the beginning so
some gamification things i think would be
good if you tell me we're gonna work
out forever
That's hard to get involved.
If you tell me that the goal is
general fitness, I feel like that's hard.
Everything I've ever done has been around
a marathon or a triathlon.
It's a thing.
I know exactly what the event is gonna
be.
I know I sort of like it or
I want to achieve it.
I know the time and date.
I know how long between now and then.
It feels digestible.
It feels like I'm signing up for this,
what, forever?
It's ambiguous.
What does that also sound like?
Physical therapy.
How long do I do this?
Well, you know, gotta move.
I have to do these exercises forever.
I have to do these.
How many times have you heard that
question?
Do I have to do these exercises forever?
And you're sort of like, man,
you sound like Jay Leno.
I mean, yeah.
If you,
if you want to stay away from this
back pain that got you here in the
first place and you want to also sleep
better.
That's the thing that it's hard to like
get someone to want to jump on that.
I don't know.
Like,
that's where I think like leukemia
lymphoma society,
the team in training or other
organizations have stolen this model of
fundraising for fitness or fundraising to
like get in, get into an event.
You can't get into it with a side
door.
I love gamification.
I would love to see if someone has
done this already.
Because whenever we think we've had this
purely original idea, someone's like,
yeah, nine people have done this already.
So I'm not trying to steal an idea
someone's done.
I'd love to hear it.
I'd love to hear where it failed or
where it succeeded,
almost due to how I built this.
But I think a psychologist,
I don't even know what kind.
I'm going to call my buddy Jamie.
He's my go-to question guy for psychology.
I'll ask him what the elements are or
if he knows who to talk to.
So I found, I sent you,
I sent you a DM of the page
of membership details for athletic clubs
and it is two hundred ninety five dollars
every four weeks.
So it's comparable to Equinox.
Same.
So you could potentially, I mean,
but I tell you what, if you get,
if you, if you're looking for results.
this is the fast track to results like
with the accountability and the group fit
like the group accountability at the same
folks you have to show up you know
it's a little more geared around that as
opposed to you take the same two hundred
ninety five dollars you go to equinox you
pay equinox they charge your card every
four weeks every month two hundred ninety
five dollars no one's going to care if
you show up to equinox or not no
one's going to care if you're using the
pool or not right so what do you
think of this with their membership
details
So I'm looking at it cold first time,
how it works.
I love this part of the website.
Let me get rid of this.
All right, so how it works.
If you can't explain how your thing works
in three steps or less,
you are stupid or your thing is dumb,
right?
And this,
I'm looking at you physical therapists.
It's like, sign up,
tell us what insurance you have,
find a schedule.
When does it end?
Like, I don't know how it works.
So how it works,
you choose a location and I would love
if they had their locations like right
there, but they don't,
they are at the bottom.
He doesn't have six gyms in New York.
It looks like he's got eight now.
So that's a difference.
So he's opening up.
So how it works, choose a location,
find your squad.
That's a cool element.
That's people-based and not a thing-based.
And then start- And it's unique.
This is unique to them, the word squad.
So I like everything about the how it
works session of the website, Chef's Kiss.
Here's what I don't love.
What's included squad training,
run club and coaching specific.
These are all features, not benefits.
I would love for them to talk about
benefits.
Do you understand what I mean?
Like squad training two times a week.
I'd love to hear the fact that it's
like I just have to show up and
someone's going to like show me what to
do with people that are about that are
like me,
like figure out a way to say that
cleanly.
So I think that this is a features
list and not a benefits list.
So I would give this like a B
minus this what's included squad training
two times a week, specific, personal,
specific and personal coaching.
Regular check-ins, okay.
So there's that reevaluation part of what
a physical therapist could do with this.
Squad WhatsApp support group,
community events and groups,
and additional classes Friday through
Sunday, because they're offering Monday,
Wednesday, Tuesday, Thursday,
just like Dave suggested.
So I'd give this a B minus.
I'd love to talk more about the benefits
and less about the features,
but I get it.
Because then they follow with this,
membership details.
It's not that I don't like talking about
features in a list.
I like that too.
I like how they did this.
But if you're going to give me a
list of features,
Give me some benefits above that to lead
me to the features.
Give me the what, then the how.
And this is a very clear list of
how.
So yeah, like you said,
two to five a month, each little squad,
Tay-Tay and her squad is just twenty
people or less.
So I see I'm in a little bit
of group.
Listen,
I can commit to two days a week.
That feels very tangible.
It's not just every day.
I can commit to Monday,
Wednesday because my schedule works around
that.
Dude, how long are these things?
Spells it out.
Fifty five minutes, right?
let lets me know what training style it
is there is run athletic training plans
eventually so this is time of day it
shows oh look at that that's weird time
of day on their website it's it's in
white text on white so it's morning and
evening i don't know if that's on purpose
they might want to get on that because
that's very that's creepy yeah i'm not
sure why that is but uh
So, I mean,
this idea as a physical therapist,
like we didn't mean this to be a
steal this strategy session,
but why wouldn't you steal this?
Like steal this exact thing.
Be open about it.
We're doing this exact thing, except,
except you get someone who has a degree
in physical therapy to do that.
Like,
why wouldn't you just steal exactly this?
I think it's ego.
And another great idea for this physical
therapy practice that's watching to
potentially implement this,
you could also have,
depending on your hours of operation,
you could have a morning class before you
open.
You could have an evening class after you
close treatment hours, patient hours.
And those hours of operation are typically
generating zero dollars for your practice.
The morning and the evening class of this
version in a physical therapy office could
now be generating whatever dollars and all
that would be not straight profit.
There's maybe some overhead of like the
instructor or, you know, some of the,
you know,
I already thought of that because I knew
where Dave was going.
Dave owns a, let's just switch it.
Dave owns a brick and mortar clinic now
in New York city.
He's, or he's, he's thinking like, Hey,
maybe I could make more money just having
one.
All right,
we're going to do classes just like you
said, before working hours.
We'll say before eight a.m.,
so it's going to be seven to eight.
And then you close at six,
it's going to be six to seven.
Dave,
how many PTs do you have right now
at Concierge Pain Relief?
Five.
okay,
you have to pick one to host the
morning and one to host the evening.
You don't have to say their names,
but put them in your mind.
Their first objection is going to be like,
hold on a minute,
now I got to do this.
But they're interested.
You're going to say, my suggestion,
I'm going to rev split this with you.
It's a beta test.
I have a baby and I got other
stuff to do.
So Dave's not doing that.
I ain't doing it.
But you're going to do it for six
months and I'm going to rev split this
with you.
Okay.
Would you do that?
Would you red split this with your
clinician after costs?
Sure, why not?
It's just extra cream.
Free money.
And if it takes off,
this will now be part of your job
because if it takes off after six months
and I'm seeing profit on this, yeah,
I'll take,
you're showing up an hour early,
I'll let you leave.
This is gonna replace some of your
treatment is what I'm saying because our
job is actually not treatment.
Our job is to run a business.
Treatment is how we do it.
Right?
It's just a how, not a what.
We're running the business because we're
here to make money.
Because if we don't make money, this is,
again, we've talked about this.
If we don't make money,
we can't buy cornflakes.
We can't pay mortgages or rent.
But we can do that in a great
way.
So what other detractors,
what other reasons to not at least try
this?
If you already had the clinic,
because I'm not going to say to Dave,
invest in a space.
That would be too much of a risk.
But you already have the clinic.
What are other things that I'm not
thinking about?
Because this can't be this simple.
What are things that I'm not thinking
about?
How would you get your first five people
to be in this person's squad?
Current clients, I'm guessing?
Current patients, current clients.
It might help if you grabbed, you know,
three, four, five of them, ask them to,
you know, speak or say, hey, well,
I don't know.
We'll pay you for your time.
Or can we, you know,
can we have like a meeting?
Can I pitch you something?
Maybe it's just impromptu.
Maybe it's like, hey.
Why would you do it impromptu?
the three,
you three that happen to be here, right?
I have an idea and you, you know,
each of you kind of mentioned like you
love coming, you love the, I don't know,
the accountability of like a schedule and
someone, you know,
booking appointments and like,
you like that this is on your calendar.
You said that you look forward to coming
here.
You like the atmosphere,
you like the culture or whatever.
So you have to kind of self-select like
who is kind of already
a person that's kind of eager for for
your service,
the core physical therapy service.
And then assuming maybe in the beginning,
like,
you might want to have some folks that
like they already kind of get along,
right.
So like folks that are doing their
exercises and being, you know,
they're treated in the office,
they've already maybe met each other,
they said hello, whatever,
you get those folks together.
And that would be your first maybe three
to five members or to test this.
You have intimate knowledge about these
persons' physical capabilities.
And because that thing we love to tout
so much, we spend so much time.
I know more about my patients than some
of their family members do.
And they trust you.
They know, like, and trust you.
Hey,
we've got this thing that we're going on,
and I feel like you might be a
good fit.
You're pitching this.
Listen,
I'll let you do it for a dollar
for the first month.
a dollar for the first month.
The goal is to do it in three
month increments, right?
I say you recruit internally first and
then you use them to recruit because
friends like friends.
after they do it and they like it
make them do it and like it first
i think the mistake is got any friends
got any friends too soon red flag too
soon absolutely a great idea to charge
them even more than a dollar potentially
charge them up front charge them up front
before it even starts because if everyone
says no like something's wrong either
you're messaging you you pitch you pitched
incorrectly or it's just something that
your your consumers your your clients
may not want or again or you didn't
phrase it properly or well enough or
whatever when i threw party with a purpose
was a charity party at csm two years
ago someone said how'd you design this i
said i threw a party that i would
actually want to pay two hundred bucks to
go to i would pull two hundred dollars
cash out and go i'd want yeah i'm
gonna get enough liquor dancing vibe food
out of this to give you take my
money
I think if you design,
this is where I say don't design it
for anybody else except for yourself.
So you talk to somebody on your staff
who's a runner, and you go,
what would be the dopest, no holds barred,
the dopest run club that you've ever done?
We're going to do that.
It doesn't need to cost,
it doesn't need to be a thousand,
it doesn't need to be something that you
throw a ton of money at.
People can get that already.
They have Amazon.
They have Spotify.
We have Google and AI.
We have access to all the information,
all the products at our fingertips all the
time.
The thing we ironically don't have is
connection to real humans.
It's so dumb, but it's simple.
And to expand off of the connection to
real humans, squad workouts here,
fifty five minutes plus fifteen minutes
for coffee.
We finish every workout with coffee and a
bit of banter.
So you get it.
So you're building community, you know,
your fifteen minutes or so, five minutes,
ten minutes, whatever,
twenty minutes of even more of the
relationship building,
even more of the integration of members to
each other and building that sticky group
where they never leave.
They continue because they're getting
benefits,
because they're getting physical benefits,
but then they might also be getting
emotional benefits.
because of learning about other neighbors
and colleagues and friends and oh you work
at that company i used to work there
or oh you that that type of role
i i i'm i work in that type
of role but in a different company or
whatever or you oh you live in you
know you live over this neighborhood i
live you know oh we live nearby you
know we're close by or i have a
friend in that building whatever so you
there's the relationship component
component to this that is just
Beyond genius.
It's also internal.
Here, I am someone.
I am someone different than just the guy
at the office.
I'm different than mom at home.
Like here, I'm an athlete.
I'm just, it's very different.
So I went from being a competitor or
sorry,
a fundraiser and a competitor for team and
training.
That's why I speak so highly of them.
I used to cheat though.
I worked for a radio station.
Dude,
I was done with my fundraising in like
three days.
Like it was awesome.
I was like, I'll get into these races.
I'll give you airtime for five days on
my show.
Here's the link to the website.
And I'd raise all this money.
I wound up being a coach.
When I got into PT school, my professor,
Skye Donovan,
was one of the run coaches in DC.
She's like, oh,
I see you have a shirt with teaming
training.
And I was like, yeah.
She's like, come be a coach.
I'm like, okay.
And I saw how devastatingly simple it was
to create a team.
You have to act like it is a
team first.
You can't wait for the team members to
like come up with how the workouts or
how the team's gonna operate.
You also can't demand it.
Like you essentially have to set it up
and then within these bounds, listen,
we expect you to be running.
These are the three runs.
We're gonna map out for you three runs
a week from where you are.
And then we're going to get together one
group, a long run together.
We picked dope locations.
We'd run them a national mall.
We'd run on these cool trails in DC,
like build it into the cake.
What's the kind of workout I'd want to
do.
I want to go cool places.
I don't want to run in a dump.
Like great.
Send me out to the national mall.
We're going to go run out, you know,
on the point near the airport with
stunning views of the Potomac build it in
there.
But only a runner would know that that's
what happens when you put a non runner
in charge of a run club or a
non runner
fitness professional in front of a fitness
class.
This needs the right elements,
the right elements of the cake the whole
time, in my opinion.
If you do it, I don't know.
A buddy of mine I just saw online,
he started a run club at a clinic
right down the street.
Brilliant.
Maybe I'll check in with him in a
couple of months and see if it's still
going because I see a lot of people
start these and then they fade because
it's simple to do but not easy because
you're cultivating
Culture, you're cultivating experience.
And we think we set that up and
then we just let it run on itself.
No, no, no.
The whole thing is fueled by this,
by this vibe, by accountability.
You have to be just as accountable as
the group.
We used to say in radio,
if you want someone to feel the emotion
of an eight out of ten,
you have to give them a fifteen.
That's why like Broadway actors are like
over the top.
Yeah,
they got to make you feel it in
the back row.
That same concept is delivered here as
well.
I've got like a few minutes left.
We got it.
We got a few.
I got to help a buddy with a
press conference today.
That's why I have like, yeah,
let's, let's wrap early.
Cause I think, I mean, I, I,
we had some other topics, but like,
I think the Jared,
I think the Jared Hall one is good.
I want to talk about that.
That's good.
It's good with Tony.
Yeah.
And we'll talk about Jared Hall who, uh,
did you,
we did the Oxford debate together.
He was on my team for the Oxford
debate.
So maybe we'll have Jared on after we,
we should talk about it.
And then if there's deeper,
we'll bring Jared Hall on.
Um, so parting shots,
what would you have for parting shots
today?
Party Chats is like this.
Literally,
the reason why we put this on the
show and we talk about other things like
this on the show is there's so many
fascinating business models out there.
There's so many aspects to other business
models that we can all incorporate and
use.
And why not just test it?
What's the worst case scenario?
If it stops and fails or it doesn't
work or you try to tweak it and
relaunch it or whatever.
All this is about...
helping more of your patients and clients,
helping more of your community members,
plus helping more of your team members,
your staff make more money and your
practice make more money.
And if our practices and companies can
make more money,
we can help and serve and impact more
people.
So it's like, why not do this?
by talking about this,
even Tony is not here,
but even if he was here,
like this is the type of thing that
we would all sit down to three of
us.
We would talk about this behind the scenes
privately anyway,
and we're just putting this out there.
So hopefully if there's owners out there
with PT clinics,
if you add in things like this,
we would love to hear your feedback.
Like what's the business model?
What are the, you know,
the components of it?
How's it going?
Is it easy?
Is it challenging?
What are the wins?
Uh, anyway,
we would love to hear your feedback if
you start implementing any of this.
I think Tony would say he does this
organically already when he finds a few
patients that seem, Tony's like the,
is it a yenta?
Isn't that the term?
A yenta?
The matchmaker?
Like a Jewish matchmaker?
I think so.
He's that guy and this girl that we
put them together.
They're going to make beautiful babies.
He's like a yenta in a clinic.
He puts these people together.
I think he does this organically one-off
when he sees it because he's been doing
this for so long.
He sort of can see what it looks
like three months.
But if you put some intent behind it,
We don't have to guess that it's gonna
work.
It works for these organizations,
many of them that we listed today and
many that we probably didn't.
I would love to hear who we didn't
mention or if you're doing it.
So I would say,
if you think the current model of your
clinic is the only way it can be
done, you know you're wrong.
And if you think reimbursement is gonna
get better, come on, man.
Like, what are we doing here?
Do we have to argue that?
You either do something different
or you go extinct.
And I'm not saying this is it,
but I'm saying it needs to be something
like this.
So we're gonna have a good weekend.
We'll have Tony back on Tuesday.
Well,
let's touch on this just a little bit
and see if we can get Tony's take.
And then we can bring up that Jared
Hall post and talk about that,
which I think is very interesting.
Awesome.
Sounds good.
Dave Kittle.
Oh yeah.
My Yankees lost.
So we're all out of the playoffs.
Philly's won last night.
They have to now win two in a
row, which is a steep order,
but we'll see.
We're still in it.
Great turn.
So smooth.
All right.
We'll see you guys next week.
Thanks for listening to the show.