That's Tony.
I'm Jimmy.
Dave's coming around somewhere.
Good morning.
It's Thursday, September fourth.
This is PT Breakfast Club.
Where do we start if we get
a lot of different
directions that we could go in?
Yeah, you choose, man.
I feel like I've been
dominating the conversation lately.
So, oh, yeah, I feel like, you know,
my doctor told me to
install a bar in my shower
because I'm of that age.
And that's what I did is
that that's the mean that this is from.
Right.
You shared this.
I did.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Like, we need more humor.
We need more therapists sharing more humor,
more funny memes, more video.
I feel like we're so stuffy, stodgy.
In fact, yeah, anyway,
we need more humor in the
profession facing the public.
It happens in the clinic, I think,
but it doesn't come out to the public.
What about the flip side?
I remember this is years ago.
I think I was still in PT
school and somebody was
like sort of bagging on.
Don't you hate when when
patients do this and this and this?
I feel like that.
I don't know who that helps.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Hey, Dave's here.
Let's see how he's doing.
He's rocking Sharon.
He's chair rocking.
I'm back on the cabin deck.
Real quick,
I know we're going to talk
about a bunch of things,
but one thing you guys are
talking about bringing
humor back into physical
therapy or trying to
instill it into physical
therapy and what we do.
I think we need more results.
I think we need to focus on results
only, because by doing that,
I think we're focusing on the patient,
the client.
And Tony posted something
today about Medicare
physical therapy and government cheese.
I think we're going to kind
of get into a bunch of topics,
but it brought up for me
the two rows you can take.
And I mean, whether now or future episodes,
I think talking about results, like, yes,
humor is great, social media and
videos that Tony does.
And yes,
that would be great to have more
patients and clients want
to come back and continue
their plan of care because
of the humor aspect of it.
But I think far too many
practices across the country are just
used to the insurance or
medicare component of the
billing and and the value
exchange and it's hardly
ever or not nearly focused
enough around the results
around a measurable result
that the patient cares
about that they agree to
that they want to achieve
and uh I would love to
explore that well let's
let's talk about it now
because I don't think most
clinicians and maybe I'm
just you know assuming
I don't think we're willing
to really look at what the patient wants.
What is the result the patient wants?
I can tell you right now,
my clinic is full almost
every day with patients who
don't necessarily want the
result they say they want.
They don't care if their
shoulder feels better,
their back feels better.
They don't care if they can
do more things functionally.
In fact,
When I lay out a plan that
helps them achieve independence,
it's not the plan they want.
They want to occupy time.
I mean,
we see it on social media that most
of my clients,
they're coming for convenience.
They're coming for enjoyment.
That's what they're looking.
Socialization.
That's what they're looking for.
You may be treating a very
different clientele.
You may be treating somebody
who wants a physical result,
a functional result.
um you know but I just think
that as clinicians we turn
a blind eye to what the
client actually wants and
it's unfortunate but it's
more about what we want
what do I want to do as a
therapist I don't care what
you want as a patient
you're here to serve me I'm
not here to serve you
that's the typical culture
that I see in the profession
Yeah,
I worked at a few places where it was
like almost predetermined
based on what diagnosis
that you had coming in,
what was going to happen.
And I felt it was a little
bit like a carnival ride.
Well, when you come in and you're in that,
you sit in that car and
then we'll put you on this
track and we're really not going to vary.
Might make the might make
the car a different color.
Right.
We might try to like customize it,
but it wasn't.
So I think like step number
one is understanding what
you're what I think I'm
hearing from both of you is
understanding exactly what
what the person that you
want to see or you want to
treat actually wants,
whether they what are they looking for?
And trust me,
there's plenty of folks in
New York City that have Medicare.
They call us.
It could be not medically necessary.
We've talked about that a
bunch going into the introductory call,
the initial phone call.
And if it's, you know,
it's not a Medicare covered type service,
but they want to use their Medicare.
There's plenty of folks that
still say no to us.
almost the majority of the
time uh and and we still
have the the other uh
subset of folks that say
yes they kind of cover all
of those you know paid
leads and paid ads and all
that type of stuff but um
that's the difference
between and it doesn't
matter if the if the
medicare beneficiary is in
ohio near tony or they're
in new york city near me it
doesn't matter uh the difference is
someone who wants to
actually go a certain path
and have kind of us as like
a guide and build a
treatment plan and they're
serious about overcoming
something they want to get
back to something and yes
there's folks that have
more discretionary income
arguably in new york city
than most other states or
zip codes but those folks
are they they will act the
same meaning they many want
to use their in network
insurance many of them in
new york city want to use
their medicare and it's the
certain folks that
want a certain path or they
may or may not even want
the outcome like Tony's talking about.
But it's the folks, I was just, you know,
as I was kind of shaving
and brushing my teeth and
getting ready for the show,
I was thinking like, you know,
the future of physical therapy,
it's like we're at a split right now.
Like it's like a fork in the
road and you could continue,
in my opinion,
you could kind of take a lot
of the insurances,
including Medicare and all
these things that kind of
continue to get chopped in two percent,
four percent, three percent, MPPR,
all this other stuff.
It's getting chopped and
chopped and chopped.
And I think in the future,
because like right now,
there's not a lot of
practices that take
Medicaid insurances and Medicaid payers.
And I think in the future,
I don't know at what year,
but I think a lot of like
Medicare Part B will be
like that as well.
Like I think a lot of
practices will either just
fall because they're never
going to change or they're
They actually focus on a
measurable outcome upfront
that the patient or the
family or the client wants.
They get agreement to that
and the therapist or the
therapy company lays out the plan.
And then guys,
it's so much easier to charge three grand,
five grand, you know, payment plans.
I mean, so many things can come from this,
but if you're in the fork in the road,
you can continue one way,
and folks that don't want PT,
like Tony kind of talks about,
and that's fine.
You can make a great, profitable,
busy business doing that.
But as payment continues to get squeezed,
it's really, really,
it becomes harder and
harder to go down that road
and the path of having more training,
more kind of ethical sales
and understanding, you know,
focusing on like a result.
It's not for everyone and
not everyone's gonna pay three grand,
five grand upfront or a
third down upfront.
If they have a Medicare or
some in network insurance, I get it.
But that's just my opinion.
Like,
I kind of think we're at a fork in
the road and you have practices going,
you know,
out of network self-pay or the
smaller micro practices.
And then you have the bigger
corporates that obviously
are only going to stay in
the network lane.
But that's kind of where we're at.
Yeah,
I think even in an insurance-based model,
that is so important,
the alignment between what
the therapist wants,
what the patient wants,
just to stem the burnout,
to stem the frustration in
the profession.
I think most of us would
probably accept the lower
reimbursement from an
insurance model if we were
treating patients who
valued and cared about what
we were delivering.
and this this goes to
another post that I had
shared where I said look
the worst thing in the
world is to have somebody
in the clinic who does not
value the effort that I'm
putting in like I will run
through a brick wall for
somebody who wants what I
am trying to deliver but
for somebody who doesn't
want it and they're wasting
my time they're wasting
their time they're not
interested in the solution
that I'm selling and to be paid less
Like we only have so many levers to pull,
right?
I'll get paid more and allow
you not to care about my
life and my time and what
I'm delivering to you.
But I'm not going to get
paid less and have somebody
who doesn't want what I'm giving them,
you know?
And so these are the things
that we need to balance.
Go ahead.
And the interesting thing is not always,
and I don't want to, I don't want to,
what am I going to say?
What am I going to say?
I don't want to look at that.
David's Dave.
Are you in a cracker barrel right now?
Yes.
A sidebar air.
There we go.
Crack.
I'm not David Rubin.
I'm not at a cracker barrel.
Let me, let me take,
let me give you a little bit.
Look at it.
Look at this.
You are the cracker barrel guy.
He's the cracker next to the barrel.
I've been added back to the logo.
All right.
Really,
really quick of what you were just saying,
Tony.
So like like morale and there you go.
Cracker Barrel Physical Therapy.
Jimmy made that last week, I think,
on ChatGPT or some other some other AI.
The thing you were just saying, Tony,
about the the challenge of
like burnout and physical
therapists that are
treating patients that.
maybe don't want what they are offering.
The patients don't want
physical therapy or they
don't actually want to come
in and they're kind of
showing up begrudgingly.
Those are typically not always,
but those are typically the
types of folks that are insurance
focused or insurance mindset.
They wanna use their insurance.
And those are typically the
folks that won't ever pay out of pocket.
They're not gonna pay three
grand for their ankle sprain.
They're not gonna pay five
grand for their ACL rehab.
They're not gonna pay a
self-pay or an out of network.
rate upfront or over time, out of pocket.
The beautiful thing is the
subset of folks that are,
for whatever reason,
they just have a different motivation,
they have a different focus
around their health and wellness,
whether it's mountain
biking or CrossFit or
pickleball or whatever,
those types of folks that
wanna get back to a thing that's really,
really meaningful to them,
are typically the best patients.
They pay out of pocket.
They're okay with a self-pay rate.
They are easier to work with.
They cancel a no-show less often.
They're typically better in
terms of word of mouth and
folks in the community who
they have like a network of
folks and they tell their
friends and neighbors and
their family members about
the physical therapy
practice and business.
So that is the interesting
dichotomy between these
kind of like two kind of groups of
physical therapy patients
that we all see in my opinion.
I don't know what you guys think.
Yeah, no, we agree completely.
Well, I said, we like,
like I'm talking for Jimmy.
Um,
we haven't talked about this in a while,
but if we go back, you know, it's,
it's just basic business
one-on-one it's like, all right,
I've got a product.
I want to sell this product.
Now,
I tend to be more of an exercise-based
therapist or a manual-based therapist.
Regardless,
if I want to sell exercise as a solution,
should I try to sell it to
the person who hates exercise,
who doesn't have a gym membership,
who doesn't have a pair of
tennis shoes or workout clothes?
Like, no, that's absurd.
why don't I focus my
exercise-based solution to
your problem to people who
have already spent money on
exercise I was looking at a
treadmill online it's a
fifteen thousand dollar
treadmill and I'm like I
think it's an order track
or something it's beautiful
Beautifully designed wood
structure around it, like incredible.
But I'm like,
why are people paying fifteen
thousand dollars to do what
you could do for free outside?
You know,
and it's because they value that
experience.
I would never do it.
I run every day,
but I'm not going to spend
fifteen thousand on treadmill.
But there are people who do
enough people that this
company would produce this product.
So, yeah, I agree.
Like,
I think we need to understand marketing,
our target demographic.
Who can we best serve?
It's not anybody with insurance.
And that's what the
profession has been built on.
The profession has been
built on anybody with a
pulse and insurance.
My door is always open.
But that's not who we should
be focusing our time and effort on.
And that's why we're burning
our clinicians out,
because we're forcing them
to do things that nobody values.
Nobody cares about.
Nobody.
Many people don't even want.
Is that really the question is, you know,
the world changes faster than culture.
And by culture, I'm talking about,
you know, the people in charge, right?
The people who say, well, these kids today,
those people run the
companies because they
started as the clinician
and they built themselves
up or they've now they're managed,
they direct or they started their own.
the world changes faster, how we get paid,
what we get paid,
and it's harder to move that ship.
So how long does it take
before those people cycle out?
Do we have to wait that long
or can you speed it?
Can you speed it up?
One would argue we have more
access to information at
our fingertips to see what
everybody else is doing.
We should change faster.
I don't know if that's the case though,
is it?
Who specifically with change,
the practices or the patients?
I would say the practices
are the ones that we could
actually we could actually
change fastest because it's
fewer people and they're
incentivized right like if
I'm a practice that I'm
going under and you say you
have to change something
and the answer is go write
a long facebook you know
post about how this sucks
and call your congressman
that person's going to be
underwater but that person
could elicit change faster
than changing what everybody else wants
You work for them.
The clinic works for the market,
not the other way around.
But I feel like the system used to work.
It used to work.
I have a clinic and you have
a bunch of licenses.
Therefore,
I'm your only route and you were
told to come here.
It's not that case anymore.
Why is it taking so long to
change is that's my question, I guess,
which is we have access to
all this information at this.
We know we know this.
You know,
I work with research
organizations and I love them.
But my question is,
do we more do we need more
information or do we need more action?
Do we need more information,
research or more implementation?
You know,
the answer is action and implementation.
Listen to the gurus,
the really big business gurus,
the ones who are honest or like,
do you need another book?
Do you need another course?
Do you need another podcast?
No.
You need to do – what is the great line?
Imperfect action is better
than perfect plan.
I don't know.
I might have just made that one up.
But you get the gist.
Someone else said it better.
But why is it – I'm curious.
Why is it taking so damn long?
Are we a slower profession?
Is this across the board humans?
I'm asking big questions.
I just want your thoughts.
What do you got, Tony?
Yeah,
I just wonder what the academic
environment is these days.
I mean, part of it is momentum, right?
I've been in business twenty five years.
You're going to try to
overcome my momentum, my my history,
what I've always done.
It's just so much easier for
me to fall back into the old patterns.
Absolutely.
Part two is, okay,
what is influencing the next generation?
Why are there not more young
entrepreneurs coming into the profession?
I feel like there are.
Don't you?
I feel like that part is changing.
I don't see it.
Really?
All right.
Not at scale.
I don't see anybody coming
out who wants to do something at scale.
There are individuals who do
amazing things.
Now,
you've got somebody like Josh Funk or
something like that.
And they are.
They're doing stuff.
But I still have to think
the culture of the academic programs.
All I hear in my social
media feeds are the
nightmare stories about
what universities are like
today compared to what they
were like twenty years ago.
I don't see anything useful
business and healthcare
coming out of what I see on social media.
I'm not in universities.
I can't speak to what the reality is.
But that being said,
I think we need influencers,
we need people that are out
in the profession.
We know Jerry Durham and we
know all these people that are out there,
but I don't see the young
ones out there really
accepting the
responsibility of what we've
built and what we've turned
into and saying, hey,
I want to make a million dollars a year,
and I want to do it
delivering great patient care.
I think I can match those two together.
Let's figure this out.
I just don't see that.
Okay.
There's a whole bunch of, yes, I agree.
And also, first of all,
the physical therapy programs,
they attract a certain type of person.
And in school,
we are taught to work by ourselves.
We take tests.
If you share,
if you collaborate during a test,
it's called cheating, right?
So there is no collaboration
during physical therapy
school until you get to
the later years and you're
doing group projects or whatever,
but it attracts the type of person.
And I think most of the healthcare,
I think physicians
definitely the same way.
Physicians, physical therapists,
probably nurses,
but a lot of healthcare is
the healthcare individual
that's in school and then
eventually a new grad or they're in the
the working world, they're in a hospital,
they're in a practice, whatever,
they do not like to be wrong.
Physical therapists, physicians,
especially physicians, if you're watching,
you guys know you always
want to be right.
And I think physical therapists,
the same thing,
like they always want to be right.
They cannot be wrong.
And the challenge of going
from the insurance based practices
to the out-of-network or
self-pay practices is
something I've mentioned
before on the show, rejection.
We get a ton of rejection.
And because I've had a
history in sales and
selling gym memberships at
LA Fitness one summer
during college and
different side projects and
things like that,
there's a lot of rejection.
And so when you take network
insurance and when you take
Medicare Part B and you
build those insurances or those payers,
There's no rejection.
There's maybe some partial
rejection when they drop
off after the second or
third or fourth visit
because the patient doesn't
see any value.
But they drop off.
They stop coming.
And it's like a soft backhand.
You're not really offended.
You say, oh, maybe they got hurt.
Something happened with their family,
whatever.
but no one is uh typically
in the healthcare world
experienced or or has a
background of absorbing
rejection we I I was just
following up by the way
here's a here's a side
story I was just following
up with patients that were
leads from this past year
uh since I was here in blue
ridge I had some extra time
on my computer and I was
following up with previous
patients previous leads
previous prospective
patients that did not book
with us did not proceed with us
And I was sending texts and
emails to some of these
prospective patients and
just kind of saying like, hey,
we talked months ago and
just checking in.
I just want to make sure you
got taken care of.
I know you didn't start with us.
That's totally cool.
I just want to make sure you
got taken care of.
And one of these patients
over text message started
belligerently texting me back.
I had to block the number.
It was insane.
Now I can absorb that all day.
I eat that for breakfast and
lunch and dinner.
And I'm totally fine with that.
I don't lose sleep or anything.
And the patient had some
probably psychosocial
cognitive neuro component to maybe,
I think a previous,
TBI, traumatic brain injury or something.
But I'm mentioning it
because no one in
healthcare is okay with rejection.
No one is prepared for the rejection.
And that is what is needed.
That's one of the things that's needed,
Jimmy.
When we're talking about
these micro or these solo
self-pay practice owners that are growing,
and I agree with Tony,
there's not a lot of these
folks across the country
doing it at scale.
But the rejection piece is huge.
And that is,
you have to get over that and
experience that and live
with it and sit with it.
If you're self-pay or out of
network compared to in
network and Medicare and you just,
you take every payer.
Here's what I found.
The inertia of success.
Now we're talking about physics, right?
Business owners who have
been around for decades
have already survived
reimbursement changes.
And that creates this belief.
If it worked before,
I'll just keep doing this and it'll,
it'll eventually level out.
Success hardens habits.
Risk aversion,
we've talked about that
psychological belief.
PT, very low margin,
high compliance industry.
Owners are often terrified
of the downside.
So what do we do when we're
terrified of the downside?
We white knuckle onto
whatever it is that we know right now.
Generational divide,
younger PTs talk about cash pay,
digital firsts, AI scribes,
the things that come up.
People have been around for a while,
might see those as trendy or unproven,
and therefore give them low
value or look into them very,
very infrequently as
something that is not going
to bring about a change.
And then burnout exit
horizon is what I found.
If they're five to ten years
from retirement,
why take on the stress of
reinventing their model?
Just ride it into the ground.
Yeah.
This is safer, right?
If it's three percent is my return,
I'll take three percent
over a risk of losing.
There's loss aversion
against there's there's the reasons,
right?
We sort of knew that,
but it's good to see that
it's confirmed because I
have confirmation bias.
All right.
What's next on the docket?
All right.
We got to talk about tequila.
Dave,
did you I don't know if you can see it.
Didn't we talk about this Tuesday?
We didn't.
We teased it.
In the messages,
I made the assumption that
this was at a nice
restaurant where typically
there's like a wine cellar
and you have a key and
maybe someone at the
restaurant holds the key or
the customer holds the key
and brings it in.
And they're like, hey, go to go to,
you know, I don't know,
see twenty six or whatever, whatever,
like the locket is or whatever,
the little locker or whatever.
I don't know what they call it.
And it seems like the same
type of thing for tequila.
And Jimmy,
you're saying that's fairly correct.
Yeah, Tony shared this one.
Yeah, it's like, you know,
cigar clubs and scotch, you know,
bourbon clubs and stuff like that,
that sense of belonging.
But why are you bringing it up here?
What's the association
you're going to make?
So what's interesting about that photo,
and this was my family and
I went to a little local
family owned Mexican restaurant.
And I don't know, you know,
New York and other bigger cities here,
like you kind of have two options.
You have American Mexican,
which is like Chipotle and
some of the national chains, Taco Bell.
but then you have like real
mexican um and most of the
real mexican like I don't
generally like real mexican
food I like fake mexican I
like american mexican real
mexican I don't like the
rice I don't like the
refried beans I don't like
a lot of the stuff but this
was a very different
experience now it was still
pretty low cost I think
like six of us probably ate
a full meal for like
seventy two dollars something like that
yeah um we had cheese and
queso and all this other
stuff plus the meals but I
saw that wall and I was
like I've never seen
something like this in any
of the other family-owned
restaurants clearly there
were like individual names
family names on next to
each cubby there were
different bottles and
different things in each of
those cubbies I didn't get
to actually get the background on it um
but it was something that
played into what jeremy
sutton had mentioned where
he said you know hey
there's a hundred and
thirty dollar cup of coffee
where if you buy this it's
a membership to a local
coffee shop I didn't
realize panera has a
monthly membership I think
it's like fifteen dollars
you can get unlimited refills from panera
And we just go back to it's like, OK,
how do I layer these things
into my business?
Not just to make more money, heaven forbid,
but to actually improve the
patient experience, you know?
And so when I think about
patients that are coming into my clinic,
what can I do on a
membership basis that
genuinely improves their experience?
Not OK,
you get one session a month for two
hundred and fifty dollar a
month membership.
I don't think that does anything.
I think it's
Is it access to something,
priority scheduling?
We talked about Jared, the plumber,
who's all over social media.
He charges forty nine
dollars a month for a
plumbing membership.
And you're like,
what the heck would I do
with a plumbing membership?
But you get priority scheduling.
You get free maintenance
like every quarter.
You get two or three other services that,
you know,
the right consumer is going to want.
How do we bring those
membership models into what
we're already doing?
Well,
so the thing with the restaurant and
the tequila, I like the,
do you notice how the names
of the customers are on the
little placards or the little,
what do you call it?
Like the little crests?
So it could just say a number, right?
I mean, it's awesome.
Obviously,
it says the name because it's a
little bit of status and community.
And I might recognize
Jimmy's last name or I'd be like,
oh my God, there's Jay McKay.
I mean, that's gotta be Jimmy McKay.
I'll take a picture,
I'll send it to him and
then I should join.
And so, I mean,
that's just genius on
behalf of the restaurant.
And also-
You could buy any of those
tequila bottles from
whatever liquor distributor,
and you could have it at your house.
The fact that this is still
a thing is genius for any restaurant.
If I had a restaurant,
I would absolutely do this.
I would have wine,
and I would have the tequila,
or I would have lockers for anything,
growlers that are, I don't know, whatever,
anything.
uh and so just imagine that
as a funding source you
know again I have no idea
pricing but like they're
beautiful they're elegant
they look good they they're
well designed what if they
sold those for a thousand
dollars a piece before the
grand opening they have a
hundred of them around the
cl around the restaurant
it's a hundred thousand
dollars they just raised
instantly before they even
opened the door
You know,
like the there are so many
opportunities for us.
And like Dave said,
what are you really selling?
You're selling that spot.
This is your brick in the
walk to show that you
contributed to this this
restaurant opening.
You've got your name up on the wall.
Why does Paycor, like here in Cincinnati,
it's the Paycor Convention Center,
like why does Paycor pay to be up there?
Because it's that recognition,
that notoriety, and you're buying it.
And I think consumers would do that.
It's also like a mini
self-storage because it
makes the customer come back.
True.
That is the genius thing.
I just, I gave,
I wanted to float it out
there and none of you guys took the bait,
but I was saying I could
buy one of these tequila
bottles and it could be in
my kitchen for when Jimmy
or Tony eventually come and visit.
And we can get it out at my
home and I can pour you guys a glass.
Or we could go to the
restaurant and the fact
that I have some mini
temporary real estate that
I'm renting or whatever the
fee is per year or whatever.
By the way,
they probably sell it just like
self-storage.
They're probably like, oh,
the first month or two is free.
And then you get hooked because you're...
bottled tequila is still there.
And the restaurant, by the way,
probably or maybe buys, you know,
in bulk or whatever,
they probably maybe they
even sell you the bottle.
So it's like you just you
buy the little blocker and
whatever tequila there and
you don't even have to bring it in.
Like it just shows up and
it's your place there.
But
You know, you guys come to town, Jimmy,
Tony, whoever else comes to town.
I take you to this Mexican restaurant.
I get a little bit of status,
a little bit of ego, like, hey,
here's my name on this
placard and and this locker.
And it makes the customer
come back to the restaurant.
That's the genius part of this.
Who is the hero?
I mean, I worked at a country club.
It wasn't super fancy,
but we sort of tried to
make it fancy in my little
hometown when I was in high school.
and I was taught early you
learn everybody's name you
learn everybody's name
because when they walk in
and you see the tea cars
walking in they feel like
this when you say hello mr
and mrs t car and it wasn't
just for tips it was to
create that environment
which is what are you
selling you're selling
exclusivity it wasn't that
expensive to belong but they had a limit
could only have a certain
number of members right
food members and golf
members so you tried to
make that experience a
little bit different and
every once in a while
people's heads got a little
big and then as the wait
staff we talked about it in
the back but we were we
were we were inflating
their heads right that was
the whole thing of the
status is I'm a member I belong there
And I think that's what this is.
So before we get to Hilda's question,
which I want to, we've talked about these,
but I asked some AI,
I dug in while you guys were talking,
and these are the five membership models.
I'll go through them really
quickly because I don't
think they need a lot of explanation.
I asked five membership
models for a physical
therapy clinic that it
could implement to make more money
and improve patient
experience it's got to do
both right that's what
that's what tony and dave
were talking about so
number one wellness and
longevity membership tony
you do that already right
How much do you charge again?
This was suggesting between
fifty and one hundred and
fifty for proactive
services like injury screens,
mobility classes,
group strength sessions or
periodic PT checkups.
You also offer just access
to the facility.
That's what it is.
Yeah,
it's one hundred dollar a month
access membership.
So you can come in.
It's only available to
people who have already
been physical therapy patients.
But the greatest value of
this is they're in my clinic two,
three times a week.
and so if I get a
cancellation I get a
no-show there's somebody in
here it fills that spot
instantly it eliminates the
negative impact of no-shows
and cancels which allows me
then to turn around and say
you know what if something
comes up it's okay I'm not
going to charge you a
cancel fee I don't care if
you come or not I want you
to come but if you don't
come I've got redundancy
built in the system and I'm
getting paid for that redundancy
Now,
we talked about the plumber
subscription model, faster scheduling.
If you don't think that's important,
you've never had a plumbing emergency,
right?
Like you've never had one.
This one I feel like should
be or could be an upsell.
I think it's a harder sell.
It's an easier upsell.
And the second was VIP
access or concierge membership,
an annual fee between three
and six hundred dollars.
You get faster scheduling,
extended extended
appointment times or maybe
uh appointment times that
are a little more popular
direct email or text access
like now you're selling
things that don't
necessarily cost you
anything but but bring
value or a quarterly
performance review again
you're selling access I was
taught that a lot in radio
like we didn't really
didn't have a lot like we
played music I can only
play one song at a time you
sold access or things you
couldn't get somewhere else
And I'll blow through the last three.
Performance and sports
optimization membership.
A specific sports program.
That's customization is what
you're selling.
Corporate or family memberships.
Now you're selling a bundle.
You're selling a group
status instead of a locker
filled with tequila.
It's just a different
audience and a different outcome.
And then a digital hybrid membership.
Why not sell something a
little bit less for a little bit less?
And that comes into play
like with RTM or it could
be something a little bit differently.
But if you're not paying
attention to what they like
and what they value,
you're going to keep selling,
I don't know, ice to the Eskimos,
which brings up Hilda's question.
Hilda is out of Columbia, Maryland.
She's a geriatric physical
therapist and asks or she says,
seniors with limited
mobility don't value exercise and PT.
Okay, let's say that's true.
We know exercise and PT help a lot.
What can be done to
incentivize this demographic?
Look, it looks like from her LinkedIn bio,
she's been doing this for a while,
and this is not a simple thing to solve.
What would you guys say?
Dave, can you reread it real quick,
please?
Yeah.
Seniors with limited
mobility don't value exercise and PT.
We know these things help a lot.
What can be done to
incentivize or how do you reframe it?
Do you offer tequila?
I don't know if they like tequila.
What do you offer to
incentivize that
demographic of older adults?
Terribly important.
The upside is tremendous.
What do we do here?
Yes, very easy.
Hilda, I mentioned at the top of the show,
you have to speak to the
individual on the phone or
in person about,
and you have to dig and
find what is the thing that
they care about.
Maybe there is no thing.
And if there is no thing,
then you're right.
I agree with you.
They will not pay or even
want to do physical therapy
because of the exercise and
movement and all that,
although they truly need it.
You have to find something
that they want to get back to,
even if it was one or two years ago,
maybe it's
Five years ago, if it's, you know,
if it's longer,
it's going to be harder for
them to get back to.
You have to find what's the
thing that lights them up.
What's the thing that gets
them out of bed in the morning?
Maybe it's that individual
walk into the library for
community reading or it's
What's some of the other
things for geriatrics, like Rotary Club,
like Kiwanis,
any of those types of things
that the individual wants to do?
It could be playing dominoes
or playing chess in the park.
You have to find the thing
that that person truly,
truly cares about.
If there's nothing,
if they sit in front of the TV all day,
then yeah, it's going to be a tough one.
It's going to be a challenge.
but you have to find that
find something that they
truly love to do and that
they can't do or they
haven't been able to do in
three months or one year or
whatever and then you have
to agitate the problem you
have to kind of well if you
know you have to kind of
agitate with while speaking
to them in person or on the
phone you have to agitate
the problem so the problem
is like well so you want to
get back to walking to the
park and playing chess in
the park with your friends
and you said you haven't
been able to do that in
three months how does that make you feel
Like you have to pull emotions out of it.
You have to agitate the problem.
And then as you're talking to them more,
you can kind of say like,
here's the thing.
I have a program.
It's called Return to the Park.
And yes,
it includes some movement and exercise,
manual therapy and some
drills and all that.
But you highlight the thing
that they really care about
and you lowlight the actual work.
Just like Alex Hormozy says,
you want to sell the trip.
You want to sell Maui.
You don't want to sell the
plane flight to Maui.
You want to sell Maui, the destination.
Not like, oh,
I got to pack my bag for a
week and I got to make sure
I got my sunscreen and my flip flops.
And then I got to sit next
to someone who is snoring
on the plane and the plane's really long.
And then the airplane food stinks.
You don't want to sell that
airplane flight.
You want to sell Maui.
You want to sell the destination.
Same type of thing.
Geriatric patient.
I'm selling.
Here's what lights you up.
It's returning,
walking back to the park to
play chess with your friends.
That's exactly what this program is about.
It's twelve visits or it's
twelve weeks and whatever,
and it's three K, it's five K, whatever.
Try that.
That's exactly how physical
therapists across the
country are making thousands,
tens of thousands,
hundreds of thousands of dollars,
millions of dollars in some
cases by practices that are
just selling a packaged result.
based off of what the
patient actually needs,
then insurance and Medicare and all that,
that becomes a little bit
more of a secondary focus
or less of a focus or less
of a intent on like
component of the sale
focused on the result.
Tony?
same thing same thing it's
just learning to speak the
language you know classic
example limited mobility
value exercise pt yeah
nobody cares about that
stuff I mean we do because
we're geeks about therapy
but the general population
does not when I run my my
best performing video two
videos right now
One is about individuals who
aren't strong enough to
lift their walker into the
back of their car.
Typical four wheel rollator
is like nineteen to twenty two pounds.
They can't lift it.
If they can't lift it, they can't use it.
If they can't use it,
they can't go out and do
the things that they want to do,
not come to therapy.
don't care about that so
like when I use the
language I use it in such a
way to explain look mom or
dad they they they used to
love going to the park or
they used to love going
shopping at kroger they
can't do it because they
can't lift the walker this
is a ten pound walker and I
show a woman lifting the
ten pound walker and not
being able to lift the
twenty pound roll later
The other one is the lift chair.
Now,
I understand these are both product
videos, but still, I share the story.
Everybody with an aging
parent has had the story
where mom or dad are on the floor.
Maybe they fell.
Maybe they slipped off the toilet.
Maybe they slid off the couch.
They were trying to get up.
Their legs couldn't do it.
They ended up on the floor.
It's a non-emergency,
but they can't get up.
The spouse can't get them up.
They know that.
jimmy or dave or tony we
have our own lives they
know that we have kids we
have jobs we have things we
need to do they don't want
to call us at three a.m in
the morning when they're
stuck on the ground so they
spend the whole night on
the ground they don't want
to call paramedics they
don't want to call ems
because they know that
they're busy putting out
fires and dealing with real
emergencies so the idea is
when you find the story
that resonates I know my mom
would be laying on the
ground blood gushing out of
her head because she just
tripped over the the area
rug but she doesn't want to
get rid of it and she
doesn't think she has a
balance problem I'm never
going to convince her to do
fall prevention because she
is falling that's not
something that's going to
resonate with her you know
so you've got to find the
language that they
understand that resonates
with them one more example
my mother-in-law
We have to beg her to come in.
Even though she's had falls,
even though she's had injuries,
she will not willingly come
in to do exercise in the
physical therapy clinic.
You know what she'll come in to do?
She'll come in to fold pillowcases.
She loves folding.
She loves laundry.
She will stand at the plinth.
We will mess up clean
pillows just to give her
something that she can fold
for twenty minutes.
but I could not get her to
do standing exercises for twenty minutes.
You know, so you bring that purpose,
that function back in.
That's why I'm saying the
future physical therapy
clinic is not going to look
like what I have out there right now.
It's going to be a shooting
range where geriatric men
and women can come to shoot
guns because they want to
work on their shoulder strength.
They want to work on stability.
They want to work on core.
You want to work on core,
shoot something with recoil
and you'll feel your core engaged like
they're going to be fishing
clinics they're going to be
you know construction or
gardening like let's bring
function back into what we
do and that's the best way
to do it you'll never have
to convince anybody to pay
a copay because they'll
want to pay the copay
Tony Meritato running for
president of something in
twenty twenty eight.
But with that,
let's shift gears a little bit.
I saw this online because
you we all click things and
we're targeted with ads.
This was on Facebook.
This is an ad for chiropractors.
And I must have clicked
something that I'm on this list now.
And they're essentially this
company full script.
is essentially offering they
they understand their
audience because what are
what are the two words that
are the only different
color in the ad which is
boost revenue so
chiropractors boost revenue
dispensing online this is
man we're seeing a lot of
this right especially with
this maha movement right
everything's about wellness
and we're we're we're
taking supplements so
twenty thousand plus
supplements you own the
online store no inventory I
didn't click it
Because I don't know where
that rabbit hole will go.
Also, I didn't want more ads.
But this feels a lot like, hey, listen,
we have supplements.
You have patience.
We'll build you your own online store.
You get a cut.
We sell supplements.
This feels pretty – the
thing about people not
liking supplements is I drive around.
I say there's no way this is
going to work.
And then drive forty two
minutes in any direction
and you find a GNC,
which is a store one
thousand like to the gills.
I don't think I've ever seen
a GNC go out of business
and highly regulated in
terms of what you can say.
Right.
So is this just GNC in your clinic?
Is the concept good enough?
disregard whether you're
liking or disliking of supplements.
Like this feels like a pretty, this is,
this is selling TheraBand
and what you're doing with Joseph Lowe,
right?
This is enabling.
Cause a lot of PT clinics would say,
I don't know how to do it.
And now it's kind of a separate thing.
This is them saying,
we're going to build you the website.
This is when you,
Leukemia lymphoma society says,
we want you to fundraise
for us and we'll get you in
the New York city marathon.
But you're like,
I don't want to touch money.
And like, I'll build you the website.
We'll take the credit card transactions.
This is simplification of this, right?
Is this good, bad, or it's neither good,
neither bad.
It's just smooth business.
Dave, what do you think?
I mean, I'm fine with it.
I like it.
Haven't really done it or looked into it.
I do get some cold emails.
I'm sure Tony gets them as
well from some of these
other similar companies that are,
I think one is called like
OK Capsule or OK
Capsule.com or Capsule.com,
something like that.
So I get messages just like
this from these types of
companies that are pitching
kind of the same thing.
At first, I'm kind of like, well...
I get a little bit of bad
taste in my mouth because it's like,
I'm bringing my patients
and clients to you guys.
I'm basically bringing you customers.
But then, like Jimmy said,
they handle everything.
I don't need inventory.
I don't need things shipped to me.
I don't have to ship the patients.
They take care of everything.
So it's kind of like free money in a way.
These companies are going to say,
just like Jimmy said, Vitamin Shop, GNC,
these customers, these consumers,
they're going to go out and
buy some of this stuff anyway and
you know, all of our families that I know,
like all of my families and
friends and like,
everyone's doing like
vitamin C or vitamin B
twelve and like
multivitamins and all that.
Like a lot of folks are buying this stuff.
Anyway, my parents buy glucose,
meaning chondroitin.
So I'm sure a lot of this
stuff is on full script or
any of these like supplement providers.
So if you own a physical therapy practice,
I think it makes sense.
Like, why not?
It's just extra money in
terms of like cross cell down cell.
It's
Adjunctive or alternative supplements.
Literally supplementary.
Perfect.
You could write these ads in your sleep.
Are you over the age of sixty five?
Yes.
Do you have knees?
No.
Yes.
Like you see these ads all the time.
Right.
Do they creak sometimes?
Yes.
Do you know that's bad?
Well,
that's where that's where I draw the
line.
Right.
When you're when you're when
you're making when you're
making statements like that.
But like if you have knee
pain and you're saying
taking chondroitin or
whatever fish oil and you feel better.
That's fine.
As long as you're not making
claims that are outside the
scope of being proven.
But if you're like, hey,
four out of five dentists agree.
I got a buddy who's a dentist.
He's like,
I've never been asked about any
toothpaste whatsoever.
But apparently a lot of my
colleagues have.
Tony,
what were you going to say before I
bring up that graphic that you shared?
Yeah, it's one of those things, you know,
what resonates with you?
This is kind of,
we can see this in lots of different,
it could be equipment,
it could be supplements,
it could be whatever.
I know for me and my clinic,
my bias as a clinician,
I tend to think most of
what I see in the clinic is not injury.
There are very few injuries
that I actually see in the clinic.
I get excited,
like my heart beats a little
faster when I see a genuine
injury that I can actually help.
everything that I see for
the most part is lifestyle decline.
I'm going to call it lifestyle decline.
So it's like, yeah, okay,
a little bit of vitamin D,
preferably from the sun.
If you're afraid of the sun,
go supplement with vitamin D,
a little bit of fish oil.
There's no known dose that's
the right dose.
We just know it's probably
anti-inflammatory in nature
and a good fat.
And then usually some sort
of gelatin-based supplement
to get the protein in if
you're not eating enough
protein in general.
Those are my go-tos.
Now,
I don't think there's enough margin in
that for me to make recommendations.
But I think Alex Hermosi,
like a big thing that he
started with was supplements.
And it wasn't like, hey,
would you like to do this?
It was, OK,
you just told me you want to
put on ten pounds of muscle.
This is what you're going to buy.
and it's like it just you
automatically write it up
give them the order slip
and they're giving you the
credit card there is no
like well do you want this
and it's not really proven
and clinically there's no
research to support it like
that's where we live as
clinicians so that being
said I created the graphic
you're going to show
Um, it's just, we know that, okay,
even if there's no value in
the product itself, right?
The fact that somebody is
willing to buy something,
a physical product is a
commitment for themselves to say, Hey,
I'm taking this serious.
I go to school.
I buy the textbooks.
I go, you know, start a new job.
I buy the uniform.
Like these are things you do.
And if a patient's coming to
me back to don't waste my time.
if you really want to make a
change show yourself don't
show me show yourself that
you're going to make that
change by committing some
sort of capital buy
something and so this is a
simple you know we're
experimenting with
something like this as a mock-up
Got the products that you love.
I'm not saying these are the ones I love.
QR codes.
You rip it off like a referral pad.
You give it to the patient.
Let them go buy it on Amazon
if you don't want to earn
the profit selling products.
But the whole idea here is I
think this one thing would
improve patient outcomes
because it improves the
commitment or the buy-in on
the patient side.
Yeah,
just as we're talking about supplements,
Scott says- You got hit with another one?
Yeah,
nutraceuticals for physical therapy
practices.
Like whoever this is, Lasso Wellness,
is literally saying like, we offer this.
These are for physical therapy practices.
No financial investment,
so you don't have to hold inventory.
This person did exactly what
we're just talking about
with that Cairo thing.
But specifically,
this is the PT version of that.
Stand out in a competitive market,
recurring revenue, ordering via QR code.
These are all the objections, right?
Well, I don't want to take the hit.
I want to spend three grand
a whole inventory.
Nope, don't have to do that.
Well, it's super complicated.
Tony just showed a quick graphic.
They're saying here, order by QR code,
third party fulfillment,
drop shipped recurring
revenue opportunities.
Is the juice worth the
squeeze of me even bringing
this to my clinicians or my
or my patients?
And then why would I do that?
Stand out in the competitive
market like the person who
created the site under understood.
I don't know who they are,
but they understood who they were,
at least.
trying to sell oh it's ron
ron is uh doesn't say what
he is for the record though
scott scott shared this
link with us like this is
not an endorsement we're
not saying you guys should
do that but you know just
like everything else we
have our biases like this
to me makes me very
uncomfortable sure but
what's interesting is I've
looked into the food
delivery services I can't
like blue apron and things
like that they have affiliate programs
I would not feel
uncomfortable joining one
of their affiliate programs and saying,
hey, look,
if you're not like me and
you're not going to cook
every meal and you're not
going to put time into
choosing good food and
preparing it and making it delicious,
go consider one of these
food service delivery things.
And here's my affiliate link for it.
You know,
so I have no problem recommending
food as a income source.
I would never recommend
supplements as an income source.
So you got to start with
what you'd be like.
And that's what I say.
Like,
if you're not uncomfortable doing this,
this goes back to Hilda's statement,
right?
Like seniors with limited
ability don't value exercise and PT.
You're in trouble.
Can you sell it as something else?
No, they don't value anything.
My dad, my dad likes playing golf.
He can't now.
You know,
we were working with a nurse and
she's like,
I feel like everything should
be around golf.
And I said, yes,
except he's so far away from golf.
Like he can't stand without
a cane or a walker that
that's not an option.
We got to back down.
Backing down.
Living room putting.
Yeah, I tried that.
I bought one of those little carpet things,
right?
And that became a tripping
hazard because it had to be
there enough for him to be like, yeah,
I'll use it for five or ten minutes.
So, like,
this is what Hilda's asking is
very simple for us to sit here and say.
It's just not really easy.
Like, he can't read, right?
My dad post-stroke isn't able to read.
Wasn't a big reader anyway.
Didn't play cards.
But even if he did, can't identify.
What does he like?
Golf.
So what's he do?
Watch his golf on TV.
Is that good?
No.
But does it pacify him?
Yes.
So what is a son to do?
I don't know.
Hire people that are smarter than me,
but I can't remove the PT element going,
I understand you're saying
everything needs to be
about golf and firefighting,
except those two things are
so far away that I don't
know how to make anything
relatable to those things
that he actually values to
see him doing those things.
So like this is where then again, you say,
okay, we know he'll buy golf.
And when I say buy,
it could be with his cash
or his time or his effort
or his energy or whatever.
We know he won't buy into
like standing trunk rotation,
PNF pattern D one and D two.
so you say okay well we know
that the putting may be a
good idea tripping hazard
what if we had a facility
that had an overhead
harness that we can hook
them up to what if we go to
like a golfing simulator
what if we go to even just
a game like a wii or some
sort of virtual reality or
something where he could
maybe you don't even have
to stand up but sits at the
edge of the seat loading
through the legs a little
bit controlling the trunk
going through the golfing motion um
I'm going to create something like that.
And I'm thinking as a business owner,
I'm going to create
something like that
specifically for this demographic.
And I'm going to sell it to
the people who are really
involved in this person's life.
I'm going to sell that service to Jimmy.
Jimmy's going to buy it for
his dad because he knows
his dad won't buy it.
And his dad's not even looking for it.
But I know Jimmy has enough
that he will do it.
And he knows that his dad's going to say,
well, it's not therapy, it's golf.
I'm going to do this.
So, you know,
and that goes back to the
discrete pricing.
If you remember before, Dave and I,
we talked about like,
you don't want to tell the
patient how much it costs
if you're selling it to the
patient's adult children.
The adult child will pay
five hundred dollars for an
experience that the patient
would never pay for.
And you might even go as far
as giving them a fake
invoice so that they can show, look, dad,
it's only fifty bucks or
it's only five bucks or look, dad,
your insurance will cover this,
even though they're paying
the five hundred dollar bill for it.
Like these are all the
things that go into
creating an amazing
experience that maybe the
ideal consumer who receives
it isn't interested in.
But we know it's for their best.
Sell them what they want.
Give them what they need.
Blah, blah, blah.
You heard it here first.
Tony says create fake invoices.
Rather than that,
I want to highlight Tony
just saying something
amazingly interesting,
which is the overhead
harness golf simulator.
Jimmy,
if you saw an ad on Facebook for a
nearby physical therapy
practice or a golf training
facility or whatever,
overhead harness for
helping older folks get back to golf.
And, you know, it's a, you know,
I don't know,
three thousand or it's a
hundred or two bucks for the first time.
Now, of course,
you got to get your dad there.
And that's that's a little
bit of a challenge maybe with transport.
But wouldn't that sound like
a perfect offering or offer
for your dad in his situation right now?
Say it one more time like you cut out.
wouldn't wouldn't the
overhead harness for safety
so no falls sure in front
of a golf simulator at a
golf training facility or a
physical therapy office or
a gym or whatever wouldn't
that if it's a hundred
dollars two hundred dollars
for the first time as like
an introductory you know
swing or whatever wouldn't
that be perfect for your
dad I mean there's the
challenge of getting him
there and transporting him
but other than that like
he's safe in the harness
wouldn't that be perfect for him
Completely, yeah.
I looked into putting one in my garage,
like one of those legit
systems because my dad,
as much as he's impaired from the stroke,
is going to understand if
this is like bull or not bull.
So I was looking to put one
of those legit systems in,
but I would need the
harness because even if it
was dope on screen,
if he can't stand there and
take a full swing,
he ain't going to do it.
And then you just bought a bunch of stuff.
You just bought an exercise
bike and you're hanging laundry on it.
So I just shared with you,
which got me thinking about this.
I could see a therapist being like, oh,
an overhead harness is
going to limit their
ability to flex and rotate and stuff.
I was like, OK,
so if we're turning this
into a real business,
so let's look at the
equipment that's out there.
There are those robotic leg
orthoses that you can get.
If I'm going to invest and
I'm going to finance it and
this is going to be a real business,
there's a potential for
something like this.
Couple more months,
Elon Musk is going to have
devices out there most
likely that are reactive
and maintain balance so
that even if they do start
to over lean or go somewhere,
there are just so many things.
But we have to get out of
the world of I can't buy a
twenty thousand dollar
device that helps my
patients swing a golf club
if I'm relying on nineteen
dollars and thirty two cent
reimbursement from Medicare.
You know,
and we already know it's not a
coverage service.
This is golf performance.
I don't care what the condition is.
We are not doing this to
improve your standing posture.
We are doing this to let you
swing a golf club.
And that has a different price tag.
You know,
we have to be comfortable with that.
Yeah,
you thought you were done with golf
forever.
Guess again.
Here's how we're going to
get you back to golf tomorrow or today.
You got to get the equipment.
So what are the triggers?
Going back to – that's one of the devices.
I just grabbed it off of Google.
But going back to Hilda's
original question –
I can't even tell you how
many people are still
trying to sell golf
performance for parkinson's
and all these conditions no
it's not the language to
use what's the language to
use why does somebody stop
golfing because they know
they can't walk across the
fairway they can't walk
across the green they can't
get on and off the golf
cart safely they don't want
to be laying on the ground
embarrassed all of their
buddies are walking around
playing golf they don't
want to slow down the pace
of play they don't want to
trip and fall laying on the
grass and then they have
everybody looking at them
one of the biggest triggers
that I talk about with the lift chair
is, yes, we said, you know,
they don't want to call EMS.
They don't want to call their adult kids.
They also don't want an
ambulance showing up at
their house three a.m.
in the morning because
everyone in the
neighborhood is going to be
gossiping about why is
there an ambulance at the Maritato house?
What happened?
Did somebody have a heart attack?
Did somebody get killed?
Like, did somebody commit suicide?
Nobody wants that conversation.
So they will intentionally
lay on the floor unless
they can discreetly
have a tool or a device that
can help them perform.
And so it's the same with golf.
It's the same with other things.
They don't want to be embarrassed.
They don't want to give up
the perception of independence.
What better service can we
deliver than to give them
that autonomy and that
sense of self-control?
I can't get up on my own,
but I can use this tool to get me up.
Understood.
We got three minutes to go.
You guys want to do parting
shots before we go?
Yeah, let's do parting shots.
I think the biggest message,
the biggest takeaway,
whether you're marketing to
therapists like those
supplement companies are,
you're marketing to the consumer,
you're marketing to whoever,
you have to understand
who's making the buying
decision and what is the
language that resonates with them.
Why are they buying the
solution to the problem?
Because if you don't know that,
it's really hard to get somebody to buy.
A hundred percent.
I mean,
you have to know the consumer in and out.
You have to know about their pride,
their ego, a little bit of their,
you know,
their perceived status or
yearning for status,
all the types of things
that we talked about,
all those like emotional triggers,
focus on that rather than
the front end of what we
have historically always focused on,
which is like therapeutic
exercise and coding and
billing for Medicare and
insurance and all that.
So yeah,
hopefully this helps others that
watch and listen.
I mean,
it's always a good refresher for me
to hear what you guys think too.
I would say you got to let
go before you can grab onto something.
Let go that you're going to
be the thing for everybody.
Like,
look who's Hilda Hilda's asking about.
Well, they don't value exercise and PT.
Like take, take three nose and move on.
Like embrace that rejection.
Like, and say, I'm,
I'm saying no to you or I'm
agreeing to your rejection.
I'm not going to try to jam
my solution into your world.
And move on to someone who
actually might accept that.
That's simple to say, but it's not easy.
We're also not taught that.
We're taught that we can help everybody,
everybody over the age of sixty five.
But they're not going to take it.
And you're going to spend
too much time trying to
help the person who's rejecting you.
And you're not going to have any time left,
the person who would
actually accept that situation.
So understand what you're
selling and who values it.
I'll do the wrap up real quick.
If you know you have a
solution that would benefit
the individual and they say
no or they don't want it or
they're resistant to it,
it should be a gut check to you to say,
hey,
you're just using the wrong language.
You're using the wrong words.
You're saying it the wrong way.
That should motivate you to
figure out how to
communicate the message
better because once you can
communicate the message,
everybody is going to say yes.
them.
Guys, don't forget Tuesday,
Thursday morning, eight thirty a.m.
Eastern.
Come back.
Watch.
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Pinecast.
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And we'll catch you guys next week.