Hey guys,
welcome back to PT Breakfast Club.
The AI videos,
they get me every single time.
I still think they're funny.
I don't know.
That's muted on my end when you play it.
Oh, really?
Yeah, maybe it's auto-muted.
I don't know.
I get the audio on my end.
I don't know.
Maybe someone will tell us, but yeah,
there's audio to that.
It says, Hey everybody,
welcome back to PT breakfast club.
Like it even sounds like an intro.
It's a little disturbing on
how good that was.
And Tony was like, yeah,
I created that in like five seconds.
It's wild.
Uh, Dave Kittle, Stephen McKay,
Tony Maritato.
Wheeling and dealing in the background.
Tony might be, I don't know if I should,
he'll say publicly what he's doing.
Here's the way to tease a segment.
The seventy five thousand
dollar fine that started
with a telephone pole.
And in my opinion, totally worth it.
Right.
That's the setup.
Now you come in with the story.
All right, this past weekend,
shout out to my buddy, Ronan Johnson,
and his wife, Belinda.
They are expecting.
We were at a co-ed baby shower.
A lot of times,
baby showers are just the women only.
This was co-ed.
This was awesome.
It was in Brooklyn.
one of the folks who sat at
our table this guy named
sandler he's a divorce
attorney and we were
talking about a bunch of
stuff you know we're
talking about life and
business and all that and
of course like if someone
sits down you know how I am
jimmy if someone sits down
next to me and they're like
a local service provider
like I am like boom perfect
perfect we're we're gonna
we're gonna talk about
anonymous challenging
clients like all that stuff
right and however we came across like
I think he mentioned
something about Google ads and I'm like,
yeah, of course we use Google ads,
whatever we got into marketing.
Cause we're, you know, business nerds and,
um,
And I think I had just
straight out asked him like, well,
before Google ads, like, how did you know,
like probably word of mouth, right?
Like, how did you,
how did you build up your practice?
And this divorce attorney
said that he was putting the tear off,
like the flyers with the little cut,
like pre-cut tear offs at the bottom.
Like most of the time it's
like for music lessons, dance lessons,
right?
Dog Walker or whatever,
like that type of stuff.
And so this attorney,
this was I forget how many years ago,
maybe close to fifteen or so years ago.
He was papering all the
telephone polls in his
whole area of Brooklyn.
And he did it for two years.
And what's.
bonkers is that peep it
worked it was he got people
to call and then some of
them convert to paying
clients who needed help
with their divorce like I
mean that first of all just
that blew my mind I was
like the fact that people
So then I'm thinking
immediately he keeps talking.
Right.
And I'm just like, let's see,
should I should I start doing that?
Should I do it myself?
Should I should I pay some people?
I know like on certain
streets in Manhattan,
like Park Ave and Fifth Ave,
like I'm thinking like
there's never any flyers up.
Right.
Because I don't know if it's
like too bougie or there's like some,
you know, Park Ave cleaning committee or,
you know, environmental whatever.
there's more to this story
but are you surprised in
new york city or in
brooklyn but you know new
york city that people
actually tore off this
guy's name and number and
called him for a divorce
attorney not for that like
So first of all,
I love talking about this
and I don't think I'm an expert at this.
I just I love digging into it.
Right.
So like when you bring this up,
my whole thing is like, cool.
Why did that work?
Like almost like an engineer.
I'm not saying I'm an engineer,
but I do love like taking
things apart that are not
technical and trying to put
them back together.
So like people don't buy the best.
And I actually had I have a
LinkedIn post right now.
I saw my blowing up and
which came from someone else's idea.
And I'll start with that.
And it makes sense.
Eric Merritt taught me when
I was a student.
He's like to be.
And I think I wanted to be
like a professional sports
team PT at that point.
And I was like, how do I do that?
And he's like, I wanted that.
I wanted that at some point, too.
And then I didn't want that.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think I didn't want to
because Eric explained how
to unpack that.
So anyway, we'll get to it.
The three A's available, affable,
adequate.
I think there's a lot of
people that think you need
to be the absolute best at
everything or the thing
that you're doing.
And Eric,
and I don't know if you agree or not,
I think you need to be good.
You need to be a B plus, right?
But the juice versus squeeze
ratio of going from a B
plus to an A plus is so
huge that you don't have
time to do the other things,
which is available and affable.
So now I'm going to make it, I mean,
here comes the tangent to
your divorce attorney.
But not my divorce.
Not your divorce.
But people buy who they know
and what they know.
I'm sure if there's people
who are doing the absolute
craziest amount of research
of which divorce attorney
is going to be the best or whatever,
the long guy.
But we sort of buy who, on average,
overall, we buy who we know.
If we have that problem right now,
I pull the trigger.
Or if I mentally save it for
later and then have the problem later,
I then go back through my mind and go,
wait a minute, who is it?
It's Roto-Rooter.
I've never actually had a
toilet clog so bad that I
needed to bring in a professional.
But when I do,
you know it's going to be
likely Roto-Rooter.
Or I'm going to go and search those things,
right?
So I guess if you're the
solution in someone's way,
while they're thinking
about having to solve that problem,
you win.
And while you were just talking,
I just asked ChatGPT to
give me a timeline of how
people got business through history.
Number one was the town crier,
the guy who stood in the
middle of town and yelled.
And you could pay the town crier,
and then people heard about you.
And then word of mouth.
Word of mouth has always been there.
But if you only rely on word of mouth,
water sort of finds its level, right?
If you were good, the town knew.
And if you sucked, the town really knew.
Like word of mouth is the original Yelp.
Next was the yellow pages and classifieds,
which was how can we put
all of these solutions
together in a book and then
just hand deliver them to people, right?
After that,
what would be the major
milestone after that?
In terms of evolution of
hearing about other businesses?
Yeah.
So you've got town criers
and then you've got-
Newspaper ads or whatever?
Newspaper, right?
Mass media, which is like billboards-
And newspapers.
Like find, oh, let me put the, let me,
because now you have people
going along a route for a billboard.
And newspaper.
Then, of course,
now the ads and the way we
find stuff start to parallel technology,
television, or sorry, newspaper, radio,
television, the internet,
which people I worked with
in radio told me was a fad
and wasn't going to do
anything to disrupt newspaper, TV,
or radio.
A lot of those dudes don't
have jobs right now, right?
And then, of course,
next thing was like SEO was king.
Google was king.
And now it's like social media,
influencers...
So the reason I'm
highlighting this is this
divorce attorney just went
backwards because it wasn't
crowded because the
telephone wasn't crowded.
also he said at the time, like he had,
you know,
student loan debt and didn't
really have a lot of money.
Right.
So it was,
he had more time than money in terms,
in terms of paid marketing, in terms of,
you know,
budget to allocate to marketing.
So he didn't have the money to, this was,
I mean, still, uh, fifteen years ago,
like Facebook ads were still around.
Uh, uh, yeah.
Facebook ad you could have done.
I think Yelp was still around then or,
you know,
early days for both of those platforms.
Um,
He could have done... I
don't know where else.
Like, paid... Could have been newspapers,
right?
Could have been... But he didn't.
He did the guerrilla marketing, you know,
hustling.
That's the thing.
He's not going to outspend
Smith and Smith Law.
You can't.
Like, if you're that guy...
You you're not going to win there.
So I have a steal this strategy segment.
I'll bring it up.
But it shows that like
you're not going to out Amazon, Amazon.
You're not going to outspend
Smith and Smith law if
they're the attorneys at law.
So he didn't.
And he went hyper local.
He also like, hey, man,
as a divorce attorney,
where was he in Brooklyn?
Brooklyn.
Yeah.
He doesn't want clients from
Jersey because either he's
they're not going to come
all the way in or he
doesn't want to go all the way out.
Like the juice isn't worth
the squeeze unless it's a
billion dollar divorce case.
So he's he's playing where
his people live.
So he started.
I know Simon Sinek is big on
start with why.
But you and I, we've had this discussion.
Start with who?
So he thought about who his audience was.
Listen, hey, in this thirty block radius,
statistically,
people are getting divorced.
And statistically, in New York,
people walk around.
The telephone pole model
wouldn't work in my town
because I live in a small town.
People don't walk around.
No one walks around there.
No one walks around.
But you know every...
Every three blocks,
you're stopping for three
minutes to stand on a street corner.
And if you're not doing this
with your phone, you're doing this.
Now, this isn't an ad.
Dave doesn't bring this up
because he's like, everybody,
triple down on telephone pole ads.
Put it everywhere.
That's not what we're saying.
We're saying actually walk
in your audience's shoes.
which for a PT is pretty
good because we want to
understand where they're
moving and where they're not.
That's why when I brought up, hey,
what if you put ads in my
local hockey rink when I
play beer league hockey?
Like every dude,
every dude at some time or
another when we're putting our skates up,
planning about something, right?
And listen,
out of every dude in the league,
there's a hundred guys in the league.
Not all hundred of them are
going to go to PT,
but that ad probably pays for itself
after one or two clients
actually follow that.
And then hopefully they get
back to the original town square,
which is the locker room again.
Yeah, I went and saw John.
It was awesome.
I'm actually feeling a lot better.
And that is valuable.
Dan chiming in too,
and I think this is important.
This is what I left out of the timeline.
We're now also shifting to
ChatGPT and other LLMs
making recommendations.
You talked about that, right?
Yeah, Dan, I don't know if you heard,
but like maybe a couple of weeks,
in the past couple of weeks,
I've had two different clients find us,
my practice, our phone number, call in,
all of that.
through chat GPT and they literally,
they were searching very specifically,
I would say a little more
targeted than a normal Google search,
but they were looking like
one was looking for a
physical therapist who treats nerve pain,
complex regional pain
syndrome that does home
visits in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, like pretty,
pretty targeted, like pretty,
like you're looking, you're looking for,
you know, a laser specific.
But that's what we need.
We need specific solutions.
Cause if you gave me the
best PT in New York and it
was in Schenectady and I'm in Brooklyn,
cool story bro doesn't help
me so I think I think that
was the first thing
somebody from somebody from
a professional association
a year and a half ago when
I started playing around
with chat gpt and again
keep in mind I'm still
playing around there are
people who are way deeper
than I am but he he asked
me he's like how do we sort
of hack it so pt's the
solution to a question when
someone asks about their
body and chat gpt I was
like it needs to be the answer
Like physical therapy,
now how do you as your business
I think we take a, well, first of all,
take a look at LLMs.
How are they getting their information?
They're digesting the internet.
So this goes back a few steps to, yes,
having information and
spreading information with
your name on it and using keywords,
right?
And keywords aren't just
like stuff the keyword in
to get in there.
It's the same as a dinner party,
which is like if someone says back pain,
your ears go up.
So why aren't you saying
back pain in places?
You should be,
not just because it's nothing keywords,
but because that's what you provide.
so hold on a second so this
was set this is a seventy
five thousand dollar fine
from the yeah I wanted I
wanted to just circle back
on that exactly so um so so
this attorney sandler was
doing this for two years
and he said like every
saturday every like
saturday sunday whatever
like he was walking up and
down you know no strand in
some of these other streets
in brooklyn and just
basically putting a flyer
taping it on the telephone
pole or the street pole like
like every block,
like probably both sides of the block,
like he was just hustling, right?
He did it for two years.
He got clients.
He built his base of his practice,
of his business, which is amazing.
He's an awesome guy.
He speaks really well.
None of it surprised me.
It did surprise me that he
actually got phone calls from it.
But then once they speak to him, I'm like,
it's a done deal,
because this guy's like a great speaker,
great professional.
So he did it for two years.
Two years goes by,
he gets a letter in the
mail from some environmental,
a New York City
environmental agency or
whatever with a seventy
five thousand dollar fine.
And they had a ton of
He got like a big envelope in the mail,
and I think they had sent
him like evidence, yeah, like images of,
and they were like cross streets,
like this cross street, this cross street,
this cross, and he was like, yeah,
that was, he's like, that was me.
So they sent him all that, and so,
some five thousand dollar fine, I mean,
for any solo professional,
that's pretty big.
So what he did is he fought
it like crazy as I think
most attorneys would do.
I don't know how many
physical therapists would
fight the way that he would, but,
or he did.
So he said that he fought it
really hard and he pulled out,
I have to speak with him again,
some different articles on trying to,
you know,
fight it and like how this
wouldn't apply or whatever.
Long story short,
He was able to, he knocked it down.
He was able to fight it for
so long that they were like, oh,
this guy is just like not giving up,
right?
So they eventually knocked
it down to fifteen K,
which is still a lot.
And then he knocked,
he knocked it down in terms
of like a payment plan.
So then it was five hundred
dollars a month and no interest on it.
So it was kind of like, hey,
let's just spread these
payments out in the future.
Like,
who cares if there's no interest on it?
It's not going to grow.
and uh and so he he did it
that way and it just like
and I that I did ask him
I'm like you know would you
do that again like would
you go through that again
he's like absolutely it's
like you know it grew his
his his basic clients from
from zero to a practice to
a business and he got
through all the you know
fighting with the city on
it and now uh I'm thinking how could
Don't get me in trouble, anyone.
But if you're listening to this, how could,
and maybe it's not a good question,
because I'm thinking,
how could I do this with
like a different phone
number and not put my brand
on it or whatever?
Because I'm thinking like this,
that actually worked.
So should, I'll put this out,
should other physical
therapists do this in New
York or some other city?
Maybe not because he got in
trouble and you'll probably
get in trouble if you do this.
But I don't know if there's
a way to do it that doesn't
affect the environment.
Probably not, right?
I don't know.
Well, I mean...
First of all, my question to your friend,
which I'm already going to answer for him,
was the fifteen thousand
dollar fine worth it?
And the answer has to be yes,
because he would have done
it for two years.
So I don't know how much
money he made in two years
directly from those tear offs,
but it was more than
fifteen thousand dollars.
And now he has those happy customers.
They're going to bring him more business.
So it's the the snowball effect.
So that's very interesting.
How could you do it?
It brings up my buddy Danny.
My buddy Danny was a hustler.
And this is back in the day
before corporations were doing this.
Danny went around Northeast
Pennsylvania to bars
because he worked at the
radio station with me.
So he had some cred.
Some of the bar owners knew him.
And he was paying them for
advertising space above
urinals on the back of the
door of stalls and bathrooms.
Like that literally was a
small business model.
And it worked well for like
two or three years.
Um,
but how great would like a urology
practice be if you had the
ad in your face or whatever,
like right there.
Now,
Danny ran into problems because people
were vandalizing the frames
and he had to pay somebody
to rotate the ads right now.
You could be like, well, it'll be like a,
like a big iPad or something.
But of course,
someone's going to vandalize
the frames depending on
what kind of audience
you're putting it in.
Right.
He was putting it a little bit of it.
lower end bars so I don't
know dude love to punch
stuff for some reason I'm
not I'm not a puncher but
dude loves dude dudes love
to punch this this is why
dan says it's one of the
reasons I publish and write
so often show up on
podcasts and do more things
that pop up online so that
you're priming the pump
you're loading you
understand what chachi pt
eats for breakfast and
these llmz for breakfast so
why wouldn't you sprinkle
your own version of lucky charms in there
He says referrals are up one
hundred twenty five percent this year.
I am not discounting that.
I think that's I would love to.
I would love to unpack it and go.
Is it correlation or causation?
And also you just said
there's like seven things there.
I want to know which ones
are positive ROI for Dan.
And then I would have the needle.
What's that?
What's move the needle?
I would go, Dan.
What would it be worth monetarily?
Because Dan's like a numbers guy.
He's an owner.
So if he showed up with
Marcus Limonis or John Taffer,
my guess is from what
little I know about Dan is
he would know his numbers.
I would say at what point,
at what size of a practice
is the juice worth the
squeeze on having someone
who works for you full time,
whose job is filling Dan's
podcast calendar,
creating the content.
You remember who DRock is or was, right?
Yeah, of course.
The Gary V's videographer.
Ten, fifteen years ago,
Gary V went on Craigslist and was like,
I need someone to ascend.
This is the creepiest ad ever placed,
but it worked.
It helps build an empire.
Gary V went on Craigslist and was like,
need a videographer to
literally follow me around.
All day, every day, eight hours a day,
your job is walk around
with a backpack filled with gear.
And when I just go, hey, I got something.
And that was the dumbest idea ever.
Like if you looked at that idea,
it didn't make any sense.
And yet it made complete sense.
So my question is like,
are we already past that
point where practices?
I don't know what the size is, though.
Like you're not going to
hire someone full time,
but you might you might
part time someone.
We already talked about that.
Maybe you shoot and that
person edits and cause there's a process.
There's a lot of,
my question is at what point,
and I've asked this question before.
The idea is media companies
used to have it departments, right?
And now technology companies
have media departments.
People don't come to the
radio station first to get
their entertainment.
I worked in radio for fifteen years.
I've got Apple music.
I don't go to listen.
That's not where I go to
find things out for the first time.
So my question is,
Is anybody – I know Rehab to
Perform does it.
I don't know if it's one person's job,
but they're big enough and
it makes sense.
I would love to track the
numbers because that would
be an interesting job.
I would love to talk to
someone who does that,
specifically in rehab or medicine, media.
And I did some of that,
but I got to be honest,
the organization –
that I did it for, we dipped our toe.
They hired me and thought it was done.
I was like, no,
now you need to create so much stuff.
You gotta keep me busy.
You gotta make me tired.
We didn't, it was cute,
but it wasn't impactful.
No matter how much I yelled
and maybe I didn't make the
case for it enough,
but I was supposed to be
the DRock for a very large PT practice.
And I flew around the
country throwing parties.
I was like,
this isn't what I'll do that
while I'm there though.
Why aren't I recording six videos?
And then I was like,
pat it on the head and told
that's not important.
And I was like, I thought so.
I mean,
part of that makes me want to leave
healthcare altogether.
Like maybe I'm just not a
good enough convincer.
Why am I spending ten years
of my career convincing
people they need to do this?
And then them not doing it.
That's both me as a media
healthcare guy and me as a PT.
That's why I couldn't be in
clinic anymore.
Most of the people I worked with,
I could put together a good enough plan.
I thought I had a good enough rapport.
They just wouldn't do it and they'd flake.
And it bothered me so much
that I didn't want to be in
the clinic anymore.
Personally,
some people have the patience for it.
And that's awesome.
And we need those people.
I couldn't do it.
It really bothered me.
It makes more sense the larger you are.
I would love to know what
the tipping point is
because Dan's goal is to expand.
Dan's out on Long Island.
He's getting bigger.
The tipping point of having
someone full-time do that?
I mean,
it depends on if you have the extra
cash for that role as the full role.
My question is,
does it make sense to do it
before you can afford it?
I did this, this is such a dick move.
I think so.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
If you get to the point
where you don't need it,
you're past the point where you need it.
Here's the dick move that I did.
I'm not gonna say where I was working,
but I was working for a
healthcare organization and
my job was creating media.
And I had a process.
The problem was everybody
wanted the result
This was in research too.
Everybody wanted the result,
but not everybody wanted to
do the work to get there.
And I wasn't asking them to
do all the work.
I was like, hey,
we're gonna shoot some
videos in the next week.
Can I get on your calendar?
And I kept getting
absolutely in a week into,
I kept getting punted.
They kept postponing it, right?
So I, in a very high level email thread,
hit reply all and said,
CBS News wants to come
tomorrow morning and do a
story on this for us.
Who can be on camera?
Who can be available?
And everybody said they'd show up.
And then I said, I lied.
It wasn't, CBS isn't coming.
But I have a camera and I
was going to put all my
effort into creating a
thing for you to send out
into the world to
communicate this thing that
you just told me was
important and that you
wanted other people to know
that would bring us
patience and help us do the
thing that keeps the lights
on and keeps us paid.
And that was the moment I knew.
that I was in the wrong spot.
Like they didn't care.
They were, oh, CBS.
So I was like, you have two choices.
You can wait around for CBS to show up.
And I'm not saying the PR
people pitching to CBS when
you have a viable story is
a good strategy.
Yes.
The other option is,
Continue to create your own at scale.
Build your own channel.
If Tony sat around and
waited for CBS to come do a
story on how he's teaching
people how to learn how to bill Medicare,
Tony would be waiting for a long time.
Tony built a YouTube channel
that's got a bajillion followers.
He built his own.
We are in the build your own
era of that timeline I just mentioned.
And I think not enough
people are doing it.
And speaking about building your own,
so like, why don't we cover,
so I mentioned,
did I mention on the top of
the show or in the
pre-interview that tonight
I have some physician dinner.
So there's a Manhattan Pain Medicine,
they've invited a bunch of
providers to dinner in the city.
And I think a combination of
how I was able to get that
story out of Sandler, the attorney,
I think that we could cover
real quick on how other
people watching or listening to this
how they can engage,
how they can build rapport
with potential referral sources, right?
So tonight I'm going to be
in a room of like, and I checked,
there's like a Google calendar, right?
There's a Google calendar invite.
And I know zero people,
like never met any of these
people other than a couple
of emails from like the
coordinator and the one
physician from this practice,
but never met anyone.
Right.
So, and that's fine.
Like, like that's how, like,
That's what I'm signed up
for as a as a business
owner and like to build
rapport and meet new people and all that.
What is your I know you're a
little bit you're you know,
you and I were pretty we're
pretty extroverted.
Any thoughts on what your
approach is for this?
Like, you know,
icebreakers for my approach
personally is like.
if I stay quiet, I tend to stay quiet,
like most of the night.
So I like to just go up and like, I'm like,
not in your face, but I'm just like,
you know, shaking hands,
like meeting everyone.
I just like to get that over with.
I like to just get like,
if I lock eyes with someone,
like let's just get it over
with because there's this human,
there's this weird human thing that like,
if you don't,
approach that like different
folks at an event in the
right in the beginning I've
seen I don't know if you
ever seen this it like it
there's like some like we
don't we can't break the
ice later there's like
there's like a there's like
a a time period in the
beginning of some event or
some interaction where if
you don't get some
commonality and just chat
literally about anything
something stupid like the
weather or sports or the
food there or the seating
and the table or whatever um
then it becomes harder an
hour or two into the event.
So that's my approach.
Do you have any approach or
are you just like, you're just Jimmy,
you just like do your thing.
You don't even think about it.
I sort of don't think about it.
My, my goal is like,
so I think if you go into a
dinner or a situation like
that and your goal,
cause I know this is part
of my job now at Othellas.
So I have flown around the
country to go to events like this.
And when I actually try,
it doesn't work as well.
So hopefully my bosses
aren't watching where they're like,
wait a minute, you're not trying?
No.
When I go into it with my
goal is interact with as
many people as possible,
I tend to meet more people.
When my goal is find referral sources,
that's when it doesn't work.
So it's almost like Newton's law.
It's like the harder I push,
the harder everybody pushes back.
I go in with like, tell me about you.
Like people love talk.
Well,
people traditionally love talking
about themselves.
Right.
So like, hey, like tell me your story.
Like where are you from is
sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
I've been yelled at.
That's not a good question to ask.
I like to ask like excited stories.
Like, what are you working on?
Like, what do you do?
And what have you worked on
in the last six months that
super excited you?
Because it gets their brain
on the actual emotion of excitement.
And then they're excited to tell, oh,
let me think about that excitement.
Like,
where are you from is a closed question.
I am from Brooklyn.
All right, great story.
Like, now if I don't have, if you're like,
I'm from a part of Montana,
but I don't have anything, like,
I don't have any questions, but I'm like,
I've always wanted to see Montana.
Oh, that's great.
We're always open.
Come on up.
Like, you know, that's,
we're chasing the tail.
Um,
so I'd learned this trick a long time
ago.
Like learn,
are you working on anything exciting?
I actually talked to my
former morning guy yesterday.
So this is the guy who was
my morning morning
broadcaster for close to ten years.
And he just had a knack to
he could be a killer salesman.
But all the guy wanted to do
was just be a radio morning guy.
He was so good at it.
But he would ask questions like that.
He would ask questions to rock stars,
to people who constantly get interviewed.
And you would listen to these actors,
celebrities,
rock stars because he because
he researched them.
But he also just asked good questions.
Like tell me,
how did you get the name
Nickelback is a shitty question.
Do not ask that to Nickelback.
It's just a bad question.
You could Google that.
Right.
But I like the, what,
what's exciting you right now,
where are you working on right now?
Because like, for example,
this dinner tonight, like,
I don't know if there's any,
maybe there's physicians
like that might be doing research.
I don't know.
Probably not like they're,
I think they're all private practice.
And the whole point of this
dinner is to collaborate,
which basically means like, Hey, let's,
let's refer patients to each other.
Let's be honest.
Like that's what this is about.
Come on.
Like, and that's fine.
Like, and,
and they have like a sponsor and,
you know, cool, like awesome.
So no,
no different than things you're
doing at a fellas.
Well, that's what,
that's literally just going to ask,
which is like, how do you,
how would you like to be
pitched a dinner like that?
Cause yeah,
I could do that in my full-time role.
We've talked about me maybe
doing that with you.
How would you frame it in a good way?
My initial gut reaction is
be as honest as possible.
Like professional networking
event or say it in a cool way.
What was the thing you said?
Synergy?
Professional synergy?
Let me pull it back up.
Provider synergy dinner series launch.
So this is maybe the first?
A series means next time I
can maybe invite Jimmy McKay,
maybe there's going to be more of these.
So there's this event series,
and I think I talked about this.
It's called Health to Tech.
And I interviewed Alex,
who's like the guy who started it.
And he came from Ukraine to America,
and he's a tech entrepreneur.
And he was essentially,
I'm paraphrasing his story, but was like,
the people who succeed tend
to be connected to a lot of people.
I'm not from this country.
So how do I get, how do I meet people?
So he threw like impromptu
networking events, health to tech.
It tells you exactly the two
circles that he wants to cross.
At the events and he does.
And again, that says series.
This is the launch,
which means this is number one.
There will be others to follow.
Alex's secret with health to
tech is he goes Boston, New York, Philly,
Chicago, D.C., Boston, New York, Philly,
Chicago, D.C.
He shows up once a month and
does the rounds.
That's his version of the of
the telephone pole ad.
I'm just going to throw the
party and people are going
to come to me and I'll just
– I am now associated with that party.
People think of Alex.
And then you can – what's
one thing I might do is ask
a question or like stoke the fire,
kind of like speed dating.
Like last night I was out
with a bunch of my friends
from elementary and middle school.
I thought you were about to
say you were out speed dating last night.
I was not out to be dating
with my friends from
elementary and middle school.
I was out with these yahoos
who all have jobs.
That's a nice pick.
That is a nice pick.
We were out to dinner and I
asked one question.
I'm sitting around going, you know,
because when there's eight dudes,
there's like two dudes
telling a story and three dudes, you know,
but I wanted to pose a
question to the whole group.
to see what I wanted them to think, right?
I wanted them to think about an emotion.
And the question I asked was,
what's one thing about your
life right now that high
school graduation,
because it was also the
week of high school graduation this week,
right?
So some of my friends' kids
are graduating.
So the question was,
what's one thing about your
life right now that high
school you would have high-fived you for?
And I love the fact that
after I asked that question,
it got real quiet for about five to two,
because they were like,
Huh?
Yeah.
That's something you got to
think about for a second.
Yeah.
Like the dude on the far,
the dude in the middle,
the ball dude in the middle.
He's my town chief.
He's the chief of police in my hometown.
And he was not predicted to
be an upstanding – he was a nut job.
He would love me for saying that.
But he got – he was like,
I want to be a cop.
And then he became a cop.
He was a New York City cop.
Did that for a long time.
Then he came back up here as a town cop.
Now he's the chief police.
Like not voted most likely
to be chief of police in high school.
So like,
that was the thing I looked at him
and I was like, dude, that's what I would,
that's what, you know, seventeen,
eighteen year old version
of you would high five you for.
That's just an example of
like how to ask that
question to get people thinking.
I think you can only win
when you do these types of events.
I'm trying to think how to
harness it with a tech company, right?
Dan's got some pro tips for dinner.
Hang on, I'm gonna read this live.
I did not- There we go.
Collaborate to research with
these providers.
Collaborate to research with
these providers.
Oh, I see what you mean.
He's saying like connect later,
outcome tracking,
gone patient out of network,
typical type outpatient via
typical outpatient.
Lead one of those series and
show how your practice
differentiates and how it works.
The patient journey experience,
create an SEM fence of that
area tonight for a five hour window.
So any ad, oh, that's smart.
So you can target it because
you know the location of
who's gonna be looking.
Hmm.
Okay, interesting.
Not bad.
So let me ask you with your
friend's dinner last night,
Was it a long table?
It was a round, it was a circle,
it was a circle.
Okay.
It's the best way to do it.
Yeah, the long tables though,
in my opinion, someone like you,
and I think partially someone like me,
needs to sit in the middle.
Because if there's the one
or two people that are kind
of running the show and
then like everyone else is quiet,
the question like you said of like,
you pose the question to everyone,
That type of person needs to
be in the middle of the table.
And actually,
I think sometimes they even eat less.
They consume less because they're hosting.
We're co-hosting.
And it doesn't always need
to happen because, of course,
if it's a big, long table,
it depends if it's some
private room in some
restaurant in Manhattan
where it's a rectangular room.
And there's always going to
be like multiple
conversations going on at once.
If that happens, that is what it is.
And like, you're going to,
you're going to like really
build rapport with like one
or two or three people,
but not the whole table.
So sometimes the table,
the orientation of the table depends.
It depends.
Like, is there someone, I don't even know,
like tonight there's this lady, Nancy,
who's like the, seems like the,
marketing liaison or
whatever I forget her title
and she was the one that
invited me but she's not a
provider so like I don't
know if you know someone
like that's going to kind
of have everyone go around
and like introduce yourself
it just depends on how
direct or indirect it's
going to be there's an
element of you you can you
can screw this up you can
do that you can do too much
Do you know what I mean?
You could have taken the
telephone pole thing and
you could have created a
strategy and you could
have... You can do too much.
You can screw this up.
If you're the host or if
you're an attendee?
If you're the host.
You can put too much seasoning in this.
You can try too hard.
Like if you're like...
I think you need to create the environment,
a good environment,
and maybe put something in
front of people like an
idea starter or something.
But when people start at conferences,
like they're doing scavenger hunts,
I'm like, too much.
I'm not doing a scavenger.
I'm forty-five years old.
I'm not doing a scavenger hunt.
We don't need to do an Easter egg hunt.
I don't need to do that.
That tells me that.
You need to put lipstick on the pig.
It's lazy.
Lazy.
Yeah.
It's more work.
Ironically, it's lazy.
It means you didn't do the right work.
You didn't create the right
environment for success.
Like they'll do like because
I've been to a million conferences.
Like we need to get more
traffic to the vendors
because the vendors,
if they don't like it,
they're not going to come back next year.
And the vendors are what pay
for everything.
So let's do a scavenger hunt.
Trust me.
The vendors hate when you do that.
It's dumb.
I'm just here to get my stamp and move on.
Maybe,
maybe you should have structured
your day.
I went to a conference.
I went to the HFMA
healthcare financial
management association conference.
I've been to AOTA.
These conferences do a
service to their vendors on
the very first night.
APTA has never done this to my knowledge.
Not that I've been there.
Here's what they do.
They kick off their conference.
Like let's say the
conference really starts on Monday.
They do a Sunday night thing
where they bring in like a keynote,
like a headliner.
They hire like a
motivational speaker or
something from outside the profession,
somebody who can really tell a story,
right?
Yeah.
they do their introductions
the president of the
association talks then the
motivational speaker comes
on and bring tells a story
emotionally brings the
audience through the story
and leaves them either like
tony robbins fired up or in
tears whatever and then
they go thank you for
coming this is just the
start of this next three
days of whatever whatever by the way
The vendor hall is open, and there's food,
wine, cheese, beer.
Go walk through.
And they've spread the wine
and cheese and the beer throughout.
Or in the back.
Yeah, yeah.
It's the non-scavenger hunt
scavenger hunt.
Walk around.
Oh, did you see?
They've got champagne in the back.
Oh, champagne.
Lead the mice through the maze.
Mice don't do scavenger hunt.
They don't do it.
We're big, dumb animals.
Treat us like that.
Give us something I want and
I will give you that thing in return,
which is my attention.
But if you're making me do a
scavenger hunt, I swear to, I mean,
I don't like it.
about so with this event
tonight there I have this
uh google calendar invite
and there's twenty six
names on it it looks like
fifteen people have
confirmed so I don't know
if it's gonna be fifteen or
twenty or whatever um would
it be too aggressive I like
I I've you know I've always
considered this type of
stuff is it too aggressive
for me to email some of these providers
and say, hey,
I see you're on the calendar
invite for this event.
If you're still going,
look forward to meeting.
Never met you before.
Is that too aggressive?
Is that too forward?
How do you feel about doing that?
I think it's a little... I'm
fine with it because I'm okay with...
How would you feel if you
got that message?
This is not a leading question.
I'm not trying to use your answer again.
I'm fine if the email literally says, hey,
so-and-so,
I got your email address from
the calendar invite from
this provider Synergy
Dinner that's tonight.
If you're still going,
look forward to meeting
because we've never met before.
Fine with that.
That's it.
We're a marketing person who
would screw it up.
is they'd be like super
excited to meet I'm dave
from concierge pain relief
here's a white paper on
here's yeah here's what we
do here's who we treat what
I know it's all about them
it's not about me you can
put too much seasoning and
you can ruin the food so
like that that's why the
question is like would you
do that because the the
weird thing is if you had
sort of tony's personality
or tony has said before
he's introverted right he
does he would not he would
he would not do that and he
would probably get pissed
if you got that email
well I think tony would be
like okay with getting the
email like that's cool okay
like like he might not
respond whatever he might
respond that's okay but
he'd know who dave was yeah
that's it but I think you
can over you can overdo
anything so I think most
people who are like pt doesn't work
And PTs, of course,
their ears go up and they go, well,
what kind of PT?
And who was it?
And what'd they do?
And was it just a mill PT?
The same is true for
everything in marketing and
communications that we're talking about.
None of these strategies
work unless they're done
right at the right time for
the right people.
And it's locks and keys, man.
The only way you know if
it's a good idea is to do it.
All right,
so let me mention something else.
So yesterday, about months ago,
I mentioned you and Tony
sent you guys a screenshot
of the Studio XVI luxury
personal training in Brooklyn.
I finally met up with the owner,
Nate Feliciano, yesterday.
We were going back and forth
for like a month with like our schedules.
We were just never on, you know,
when I'm home with the baby
and then Annie's out.
And then when Annie's home with the baby,
I'm, you know, busy or whatever.
And my calendar and his
calendar never align.
But the one patient that I'm treating,
sometimes I drive by this location.
Finally met up with him yesterday.
And this is the only place
I've ever seen in the
country that markets on their signage,
on their storefront sidewalk sign,
on their windows, and it says, quote,
luxury personal training.
And I think that's awesome.
I think, I mean, Nate and his whole team,
but Nate caught my eye
because two years ago,
We were at my buddy
Christian Marshall's
Tribeca Physical Therapy
had like their annual,
like their anniversary dinner.
This was two years ago.
It was like their fifth year anniversary.
And I didn't even meet him,
but I was looking through
the pictures of like other
people that were there.
Cause it was like a big event.
It was like a hundred people.
So you can't meet everybody.
And I remember seeing this guy and,
you know, it was like a full suit,
you know, fitted suit, all that.
And I clicked on the Instagram handle,
whatever.
I was like, oh, it's like, oh,
he's a personal trainer
with a personal training studio.
I'm like, huh?
And I'm like,
and he shows up to a physical
therapy event in a full suit.
Hmm.
Awesome.
That's unique.
That caught my attention.
Then, you know, you learn more.
You look at his website,
you look at his brand
luxury person training.
Huh?
That's interesting.
Who would pay for that?
My ideal client,
most likely someone that
pays out of pocket that's paying two,
you know, two fifty, three fifty,
five fifty on the weekends
for physical therapy with
us is that's the type of person.
So I'm like, interesting, huh?
So I've been reaching out to this guy.
We finally made it happen.
He was away.
Then he came back.
So like,
we've been going back and forth
for at least a month,
finally met yesterday.
And not only does he have,
so it's like one-on-one
personal training.
So there's like the little,
partitions so you could train.
It would be like a trainer
in a not even not semi
private group training,
but it would be one on one.
And there's like three or
four little mini rooms with partitions.
And he's also trying to do
physical therapy.
So he's going to have, you know, an MSO,
which is a kind of a long
sidebar like managed service organization,
but basically like he'll
help physical therapists
treat there they could be
independent but they have
to pay him whatever the mso
fee is and he can do
marketing funnels paid ads
all that type of stuff and
it was awesome to tour the
place it was awesome to see
inside of it and it's a
beautiful spot in uh in
south slopes uh park slope
brooklyn and um
It was awesome to see what he's got.
All new equipment, a whole place is new.
The landlord paid fifty
percent of the build out,
which is awesome.
Instead of the tenant having
to pay for the entire build
out and use like learn more about,
you know,
business from other people that
are doing other things that
are complementary to what you're doing.
So complementary.
That's that's it.
Who is also here where you're, I mean,
this is what I do in my job at Othellus,
right?
My job is to find people who
we have the same audience,
but we're not selling the same thing.
We're not competing on service,
but we're trying to connect
with the same people.
How does the rising tide lift all ships?
Do you think in PT, I think it's changing,
but do you think maybe like five, ten,
fifteen years ago in PT,
we were so medicalized
that we're like, well,
we just wait for the referral.
And then, cause we're downstream,
so we just wait and then
just be nice and be a good
soldier and don't do any of
the things we just talked about,
just wait and be nice and
hold your breath.
I think, I don't know,
it felt like that to me,
even over just the last ten
years since I showed up in
this profession.
Say it again, it felt like what?
It felt like a medical process.
It felt like years ago,
we're barely asking for referrals.
And now like we're creating ad campaigns.
Yeah.
I mean,
there's always been practice centers,
even that have been in
network for twenty years
that they absolutely had to
do the whole physician
marketing thing at some point, you know,
twenty years ago, which I'm OK with.
That's part of it.
But if hoping someone sends
you business is your entire strategy,
I wouldn't be able to.
Oh, that's yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's a, that's a failing strategy.
And that,
so that's part of like doing what
I'm doing.
Right.
So I mentioned to you guys,
like I've spent a ton of
money on Google ads in, uh,
in like February, March.
And like it,
has not been performing as
well as it used to.
Yeah.
Google's been down a little bit.
I mean, other people are saying this too.
Yeah.
So, okay, good.
So it's not just me.
Cause I haven't changed
anything much with my Google account,
but the combination of that
and getting some of these
patients referred by some
of these other concierge
practices that when they're
referred to us,
that these patients like
just don't blink an eye at
our self pay rates.
Right.
So I'm like, I, I,
I can't market the way that
I either used to or I can't
market the way that the
in-network practices run
Google ads and Facebook ads
or whatever because
My process is for a specific
type of person.
It takes a specific type of phone call.
It's not just like,
here's a link to book and
like not really speak with them.
So it is,
there is like a self selection
type of bias to this.
And so that is why the past
couple of months,
like now I'm doing more
like the combination of doing this,
like with Nate.
So the past two posts or the three, four,
whatever posts on,
on my Instagram and
concierge pain relief is,
getting more content out of
patients being treated.
And then also meeting other
folks that potentially we
can collaborate in the future.
Not even,
it's just like learning about them.
Like yesterday meeting him,
it was not like, hey, you know,
send us your personal
training clients that like, you know,
don't get pain relief from
your personal training if
they're banged up or whatever.
Like, no, we need to like,
build a relationship.
And like,
maybe he and I are going to work
out together.
He asked me if I play golf.
I'm like, I don't, I play baseball.
Like I need golf lessons, but like he,
maybe I'll start getting golf less or,
you know, golf lessons.
And then he and I can go
golf or whatever and, you know,
break some bread.
And that's what it's all
about is like the long-term,
of building relationships, which the, the,
I used,
I did the paid marketing for so long,
especially through COVID where like,
and then the baby, it's like,
I could be home and just pay for ads.
And I had the, I had more time than money,
but now it's like, well,
the paid ads are not
converting and working as well.
So now it's like, okay,
well I need to invest the time.
And that's why I'm doing this stuff.
That's why I'm doing the
provider dinner tonight in the city.
And I live in Brooklyn and
that's why I'm doing all the
relationship building which
like I'm kind of always
done but now it's like
video content filming
patients the whole golden
ticket thing all that dude
I'm half I'm half cocked to
just start like to create
one of these together do
you know what I mean like
you're not go on go on
you're not an othellas
client because you're cash
and othellas uses
artificial intelligence to
essentially amplify your
billing process to get the
most money the fastest from insurance
And yet you want to connect
with people in the city for referrals.
And just, I don't even say referral.
I'll say to build
relationships to then
hopefully get referrals.
But really it's build
relationships for the sake
of building relationships.
I need to do the same thing.
My strategy has been fly
around the country and go to conferences,
which has not paid out for me.
Not yet anyway.
I met a bunch of people and
I know relationships take time.
Um, but how do you scale that?
Maybe the idea is smaller, not bigger.
Maybe instead of flying around,
I just start driving around
and having dinners with people.
I don't, I don't know.
I don't know what,
I don't know how to do my job.
But let me let me let me let
me throw this by you.
So the so Nancy,
the senior director of
strategic communications at
Manhattan Pain Medicine.
Maybe I have to connect you
and you can just speak with
her about what she does.
But that sounds like I want
to interview her.
Yeah,
I think what she's doing is
stunningly stupidly simple,
which is why it is brilliant.
Like I think those it's a
circle brilliant and stupid or a circle.
get see if you can guess.
I'm curious.
They got a sponsor for this dinner.
So I don't know if the
sponsor is paying for
everyone's plate or
partially or whatever.
Just like there's no right or wrong here.
But like just it's kind of
in healthcare ish.
Who might sponsor this?
Who do you think?
That's a great question.
Who would sponsor a bunch of providers?
There is a sponsor.
Me.
There is a sponsor.
Acellus would sponsor that.
Who else would sponsor that?
Local within the healthcare world.
Healthcare lawyers,
healthcare accountants.
Close enough.
Try Farm Pharmacy has sponsored this.
Why?
Because they want, why?
Oh,
because they want people to know who
they are.
Yeah, so I've never heard,
I'm assuming it's a
pharmacy that's somewhere
in downtown Manhattan near this office,
I guess.
I don't know.
Let me see.
Staten Island.
Because the ROI, I guess,
for someone knowing and
using your pharmacy or
suggesting your pharmacy is
probably insanely high.
Right?
Like if a provider starts
suggesting yours versus another one,
the ROI on that is worth a
hundred dinners, a thousand dinners,
I don't know.
I just Googled it.
It's a, it's a, okay.
The dinner and the practice
Manhattan pain management is in Manhattan,
like near Washington square.
Right.
So like downtown,
downtown and this tri farm,
T R I P H A R M tri farm
pharmacy is in Staten Island,
which that doesn't make sense at all.
Cause like, well,
that might just be where
their home office is.
They might have satellite offices, right?
I don't know.
I guess.
I don't know.
There's no locations other
than the Staten Island
address on their website.
There's no other locations.
That doesn't make any sense.
But hey, if it's a sponsor,
it's a sponsor.
Yeah, there's something we're not seeing,
I think, or I'm going to assume.
Maybe Manhattan Pain Medicine,
maybe this is like a
compounding pharmacy.
Maybe they send their
scripts there and then they
send them into the city.
I don't know.
But you're doing the right thing,
which is like following the connection.
Like, how's this make this make sense?
All right, so I'm curious now,
because you mentioned it.
You're doing stuff like this.
I haven't done stuff.
I've thought about it.
But you have some.
So let's say I have a budget.
You have some budget where
we could potentially collaborate,
where we maybe do this type of thing.
Not even competitively,
but we could invite them.
And I want to build
relationships with other practice owners,
either for referral and partnership,
or some of these owners if
they're older and they're
looking to sell or whatever
that's also we're trying to
do that as well yeah jimmy
and othellas you guys are
trying to get in front of
more practice owners
othellas is a artificial
intelligence uh emr revenue
cycle management company so
you guys have cash and
there's a budget so you
might be able to host this
So I'm interested.
So what I don't want to
do... This is a good exercise.
And we can talk about this
because we got like nine minutes left.
Or we do it like speed IDing,
which is what we used to do in radio.
All the ideas happen in the hallway.
The idea is I wouldn't want
to just spend money for the
sake of spending money.
Like I almost want to go
full circle to your buddy
who got the seventy five
thousand dollar fine for
putting his ads on telephone poles,
which is like if you had...
a hundred dollars, what would you do?
Okay.
I do this.
If you had three hundred dollars,
what would you do?
I, the lazy thing is in radio, it was like,
we need a new contest to get a bunch of,
we need to increase our ratings.
It's like, give away a million dollars.
It's like, that's lazy, dude.
We're never going to get a
million dollars.
We're a radio station in the
middle of nowhere, be creative.
And that's where I like constraints.
So let's say it was a
thousand dollars or less.
You could have one dinner.
I mean, in New York city,
you're not going to, I mean,
how many people can you have to dinner?
What?
Like one, it's not with drinks.
Oh yeah.
That depends.
Yeah.
It depends.
If we're going, if we're going, you know,
you do the little drink ticket,
you get one or two drinks, you know,
or not.
But then I go, who do you pair up with?
If this pharmacy is doing this and we go,
Hey pharmacy, I don't compete with you.
I'm pharmacy.
This is what happened with
part member party with a purpose.
Yeah.
No.
Party with a purpose.
I went to a million CSMs.
And the thing that pissed me
off about CSM was we would all, we would,
it was the combined sections meeting.
Everybody would come together.
And then at night,
everybody would go off to
their own parties.
Ortho people would have over here, neuro,
peds.
And we like to say physical
therapy wants to change the world.
But like at the end of the conference,
we just all went home and
we didn't leave anything behind.
We spent some money.
We had hotel rooms and
dinner and all that stuff.
So I was like, yeah,
we want to change the world.
And I know you're all spending ten,
fifteen, twenty, thirty grand on parties.
I can spend your money better.
So one year I said,
you give me your money.
You give me your money.
I sold them a party.
And I said, listen,
I'm going to do all the work.
I'm going to put all the
right people in the room
that you want to get in the
right room at this party.
It's going to be cooler.
So I rented out the San
Diego Children's Museum.
We,
we rented out the San Diego Children's
Museum.
I got an eighties band.
I got, I got to bring in high end liquor,
food.
I brought in a comedian.
Like we made it a cool event
and I made it sell out.
Here's how I sold it out.
If you,
the Academy of whatever gave me ten grand,
I gave you a handful of tickets or,
you know, fifty to one hundred.
I valued the ticket at two
hundred fifty bucks.
So as soon as I was done
raising all my money,
you couldn't buy your way
and you had to go to this.
You had to go to Vauld and
their booth to sign up to
win your way in for tickets.
And then I said,
whatever money is left over
from the event.
So I think I raised one
hundred and twenty thousand dollars,
but only spent ninety.
I gave the difference to the
three highest money givers and said,
write a check to your favorite charity.
So that was party with the purpose.
So that's the thing like you
can create you can you can
Do more together.
That's why Voltron is Voltron.
There is an eighties nineties reference.
Like you're more than the
sum of your parts.
So find people to collaborate with.
So now go back to this, which is like,
if Jimmy had a thousand
dollar budget and was going
to throw a party, who would we invite?
But who, who,
who could we invite to add to it,
to make it dope.
So more people would want to come.
That was the,
that was the impetus of the party.
I wanted to throw a party
that I would say I'd pay
two hundred bucks for this.
for dinner and drinks and an
eighties band all night and a cool vibe,
like throw a party you'd
actually want to go to.
So I don't know,
would it be a dinner or
would it be an experience?
Like something actually cool,
not a fricking scavenger hunt.
Scavenger hunts are out.
That's the one rule I will give.
Cannot be a scavenger hunt
because we are adults here.
We've all learned today that
you really dislike scavenger hunts.
I just think they're lazy.
I know, I agree.
Here's the funny part.
My friend Sky Donovan does a
fundraiser for her kid's
school every year or she's done it.
where she essentially does a
manual version of The Amazing Race.
That's a cool scavenger hunt
because it's time appropriate.
What she does is she texts
people clues and they've
got to go answer the clue
by standing in a place.
And they take a picture, like,
is the answer Benjamin Franklin?
Because I'm at the Benjamin
Franklin Bridge.
And they take a picture and she's like,
yes.
Then she'll text you the next clue.
That's a scavenger hunt to have fun.
The scavenger hunt at the
conference is to maybe win an iPad.
It's lazy.
So they fit when they fit.
Don't force it.
You can ruin it with too much salt.
Yeah.
So what do you want to do?
But we have three and a half minutes.
I want to do this.
So we could certainly
consider some other co-sponsor.
What's the dollar amount?
I don't know if you're
publicly able to say it,
but what's the dollar
amount you got from Othellus?
Let me give constraints
because if I just said it.
Plus we could consider,
because you're a video guy and Othellus,
you know, if you're creating, you know,
video assets or whatever,
maybe it's a combination of
a dinner or an experience
and you record it and then
you get to use that digital
asset to put online to get
people to have interest in
the next event and have a
digital asset for the video of like,
here's a piece of content
from Othellus that is not like,
here's our EMR.
It's like,
here's this like life experience
that we did, you know,
this dinner or whatever.
even if Athelas never shared it.
Watch this.
I've got someone who's now
working with me at Athelas.
This is a practice
consultant who consults business owners.
She throws her own conference every year.
I'm interested.
She gets a hundred to a
hundred and twenty thousand
practice owners in one spot.
Yeah, I'm coming for the weekend.
That's a huge conference.
It is.
I yes anded her.
I said,
and I won't say what this person's
name is.
I said, here's an idea.
What if we upsold some of
the people at your conference?
You're going to take a cut of this.
And she goes, what's the upsell?
I said, well,
what if I brought a videographer with me
And we did a bunch of, I'll be off,
Jimmy will be off camera.
We'll set up a cool,
we'll set up the lights in
the background.
I'll pre-interview your
person before they fly in.
Find out about them and their practice.
And then a half hour slot,
all we'll do is I'll just
pitch you questions to answer.
And our videographer will record it.
Then they'll edit it and
then hand you six months
worth of reels that is you
talking about you.
And then there you go.
There's your Google Drive
filled with whatever.
So we'll upsell that for
twelve hundred bucks.
But we'll only do it if we
get six of them to book
because we got to pay for
the videographer.
But we won't pay for the
videographer until we know
that six of them have signed up and paid.
So the thing is like come to
this dinner and we're going
to give you – it's why
there's a photo booth at a carnival.
It's like, oh, that's cool,
and this is cool, and that's cool,
and that's cool.
Create that carnival
environment where each of
those things on their own would be, yeah,
that's pretty cool.
It's like Jay Leno.
Yeah, that's all right.
combine them together,
it is much greater than the
sum of their parts.
So sit there and ask yourself,
what are the pain points of
all the people who I might
want to get together?
And could I solve two or three of them?
A dinner is not a problem.
I could eat at home.
I can buy a bottle of vodka
and drink a vodka soda as
my back porch for a lot
less than I could going out.
I got to get off my couch and I got to go,
especially in the city,
I got to go somewhere.
Right.
So you have to,
you have to overcome that social inertia.
So I don't know.
I think this is a cool
exercise that I would like to do.
Where in the city would we do it,
Manhattan or Brooklyn?
Manhattan.
OK.
I know it's more expensive,
but it's centralized.
There's a reason it's more expensive,
right?
There's a reason.
So did you ever hear the
paperclip experiment?
This guy had a paperclip and
he traded it for a stapler.
And then he traded the
stapler for something.
And he got a house or
something like that out of it.
He just kept bartering, right?
I would almost turn this
into a paperclip thing.
It's like, all right,
I'm going to give you a thousand dollars,
Dave.
And we're going to do a dinner together.
And we're going to see what
we get out of it.
And let's say we make...
x number of dollars out of
it let's reinvest so now
instead of a thousand
dollars but the funnier
part is our ideas get more
creative and better when we
have the constraints not a
blank check the blank check
would be like here's a
luxury box at yankee
stadium you know make it
rain and I'm like you have
to build up to that because
just spending that and
hoping you get success does
not equal success so let's
start with let's start with one dinner
How many is, let's ask chat GPT,
how many is too many people
for good conversation at a dinner table,
right?
There's probably a
mathematical algorithm for that, right?
We just talked about the
long table versus the round table.
So let's do this and we'll
have to execute it in the
next sixty days or something,
I don't know, thirty days,
forty-five days.
We'll have to have this to
be continued with Tony next time.
I like it.
Alright, what's your parting shot?
Parting shot is getting out there.
So, you know,
I'm sure many have done it
and meeting other providers.
How can you refer to them first?
How can you be interested in
what they're about, who they serve,
their team, what they do?
That's at least what I'm
going to focus on today.
So it's less about me today.
It's more about them.
learning about them.
And oftentimes when you do this,
then those people walk away
and they're like, oh wow,
Dave or Jimmy was really like,
they really understood me or that,
you know, or they don't even say it.
They might just think that they might,
they're like, oh wow,
they really are interesting or whatever.
And all I did was ask them
questions about them.
It's crazy how it works.
If you want people,
here's my parting shot.
It'll yes and yours.
If you want people to find
you interesting,
Just be interested.
Not everybody's going to
find you interesting and
you can spend your time
trying to make them interested.
Freshman and sophomore year of college.
I got a lot of first dates
and not a lot of second dates.
Here's what happened.
I kept telling them all about me.
Oh my gosh, I'm so smart.
And I'm with captain of this
and president of that.
And people were just like,
this guy's a douchebag.
what I was trying to do was
be like I'm actually kind
of cool and I'm kind of
interesting I was doing too
much man you can ruin it
too much salt yeah yeah so
junior and senior year like
hey tell me about you and
then you wait and if they
if they don't ask about you
don't ask her out again if
you ask three questions to
someone and they don't ask
anything about you move it on
But if you ask enough,
most likely people will
tell me about you.
And then you're like, oh, you know,
if you want.
And that's when they've opened the door.
Yes.
When they've asked for it.
And either they've realized
that they've talked too
much or they're truly
genuinely now interested in
you because you were
showing so much interest in them.
It's amazing how it works.
The problem with people is
that it takes too long.
And I'm like, that's a relationship built.
There is a word for a quick
relationship that I am guaranteed to get.
It's called prostitution.
I give you money.
You give me, you give me,
tell me you like me.
Right?
Like there's a reason it's the oldest,
oldest profession because people want it,
but something that actually
lasts forever.
I'm sorry.
Fast-tracking relationships
sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't.
There is no guarantee on that.
All right.
Tony, we'll be back on Thursday probably.
And Dave and I will continue
this conversation of if we
have a thousand bucks to
spend or two thousand bucks,
who would we invite?
Listen, the cooler the idea,
the more people are willing
to spend on it.
If they're like, okay, yeah,
this is kind of cool.
So you know it's your city, man.
I'm just coming to visit.
But we'll see on Thursday.
Maybe we'll have a fully
formed idea on Thursday.
Let's do it.
The PT Breakfast Club.
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Where morning coffee meets
movement science.