Paul, welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me.
Exciting timing.
Well, we just missed each other in person.
We've been doing this in person, but then,
you know, I mean, I like doing,
I like doing things in person.
Don't get me wrong.
I really do.
I used to do,
I used to go to a conference and do.
Fifteen, twenty episodes.
I used to stack people like
PTs or stacking patients
one after the other.
And then what I realized, it's like,
you're there for another thing.
Like you're, you're, you're,
you're there doing your
thing and I'm doing my thing.
And both of us are looking
at the clock and we're like,
when's this thing going to
end so I can get back to doing my thing.
And now I'm like, you know what?
Do it when everybody has like,
twenty decent minutes in
the day and we don't have
to rush to the next meeting.
Remember what that was like
when we didn't have to rush
to the next meeting, maybe like ten,
fifteen years ago?
Oh yeah, that was great.
Yeah, that was a while ago.
So what's your superhero backstory?
Everybody that I talk to about you,
where they bring you up and they go,
this guy gets it,
he's been in the profession,
he's been around for a long time, like,
help people get a little context.
Yeah,
I'll try to kind of think what
they'll say about me.
And I'll try to be modest.
But the one thing that kind
of always comes up is
really my passion and my
kind of narrow area of expertise,
which is clinic retail.
It doesn't sound, it sounds crazy.
you know,
one of the kind of the misnomers
when it comes to clinic retail,
it's like everybody kind of
goes to retail selling
stuff and it may maybe have
a negative connotation.
Yeah.
But really what I found and
the reason why I gravitated
to that area is that I'm not a clinician.
I'm not a PT.
I've had the luxury of being
around PTs for now,
fifteen plus years through
a couple of different jobs.
And what I've learned is
the area that I can bring
the most is through
providing education around
professional products and
what they can do clinically
to help the patient in the
clinic and also the patient
at home and provide that
continuity for the PT who
wants to make sure their
patients do their homework,
adhere to their exercise program.
And that's what I do pretty
much every day now.
And physical is a big part of it.
I get to spend a lot of time
with physical owners and
their lead therapists on
really talking about what I love,
which is clinic retail.
So step one of educating is
probably untying knots that
have been there, right?
So a lot of PTs might
hesitate to incorporate
retail into their clinics, number one,
because we're bleeding hearts,
and I can say that because I'm one,
right?
We're bleeding hearts.
Of course,
I don't want to sell anybody anything,
but I have no problem –
giving you a link or
something to look up on
YouTube or on Amazon and go there.
So what's the big untying of the knot?
Before you can educate,
you've got to make sure
that they don't have misconceptions.
What are the biggest
misconceptions that PTs
typically have and how do
you help re-educate and overcome those?
Yeah.
The biggest one is,
is they don't want to sell, right?
It's, I didn't go to school, you know,
I'm here to help people, you know,
get better, right.
And move better and pain-free.
And so when you think of those things,
it's, it's that, again,
it goes back to that
negative connotation.
I don't want to sell stuff.
And what the knot that we're
trying to untie is really to
to make sure that they
understand they're in a
unique position first off, right?
In their communities, they're a respected,
credible source for things
that people need to feel better.
And it's not just about rehab.
It's an opportunity in that
community to be that first
line of whether it's for that rehab,
these are the tools you need,
Or it's educating them about
how to use these things or
bring these things to their
household for their friends, their family,
their kids.
And right now we're in this
crazy place of you can get
everything the same day or
the next day with Amazon.
Right.
So I think it's even more important.
PTs are in the best position
possible because of their training,
their experience and really
their passion to educate.
individuals on how to bring
the right products into
their household and use
them the right way you
think about if you're
buying something from
amazon you don't get an
educate you don't get a pt
doesn't come with it so you
might be using it wrong you
might have uh you know
wasted money on something
that isn't the right thing
for you or the right
resistance level like with
a theraband or a resistance product so
It really,
I feel more bullish about PTs
being the source for this
type of information and
access to products than ever.
It really is.
It's a great time to be a PT
and offer this as a service.
So that knot they're untying
is embracing the fact that
they are this credible
source that can provide
access to great
professional products that
have been vetted by a PT.
Yeah.
That's what a PT does, right?
Especially I'll give some
love to my my running
physical therapist when the
new version of whatever
shoe company comes out with
the newest version,
they're the first to go and
dissect and try it out,
put their feet in and take
a look at what's there and, you know,
be stripping it apart.
And so you're a trusted source.
So someone
Thinking that someone's not
going to go and look for an
alternative or an additive
solution to their pain or
their discomfort, that's just foolish,
right?
So being the guide there and
not just poo-pooing it is one step,
but also getting PTs to
understand that that S word
is not a four-letter word, sell.
Sell is a four-letter word,
but not one of those four-letter words.
So you talk a lot about how
retail can actually enhance
patient outcomes.
Can you give us an example
of maybe somebody in our
profession that saw real
results after implementing
a retail strategy?
Yeah, I really have two.
I'll keep it the two.
There's actually three that
I think are truly best
practices that we always
use to help people kind of
uncross their arms when
they're there Saturday
morning learning about selling, right?
Right.
And the first one is
something known as the Tyler twist.
Tim Tyler, a great PT up in the Northeast,
did a study with TheraBand
Flex Bars many years ago about the
effectiveness of just doing
a basic eccentric exercise
with the flex bar and doing
it daily and doing the reps.
And again,
adhering to your exercise
program with this.
If anybody doesn't know what a flex bar is,
it's just kind of think of like a
a rubber kind of rod that
you kind of move back and forth,
kind of stretch it with your,
your forearm and your
wrists and do a nice little protocol.
Yep.
Exactly.
So,
and what it was done is the study
showed it's extremely effective,
not only relieving the pain,
but providing, you know,
the strengthening that's
needed in an eccentric
movement for tennis elbow,
let it go up and kind of like this.
And there's also a reverse version for,
for medial.
And again,
the key thing there is that if the,
in most patients that
anybody that's ever
suffered from tennis elbow,
they'll do anything.
And they've tried a bunch of
things to get rid of it.
And it's,
it's there with them pretty much
every day.
And so in order to get better,
you have to use that flex
bar every day per the protocol.
So you need to make that
investment to have that
twenty dollar product at home.
And I can tell you,
if you give that option to
a patient to make that investment,
they're going to do it a
hundred times out of a hundred times.
Right.
So
But that's what the study shows.
So you can't have them come in every day.
That's just not the reality with PT.
So you need to be able,
that patient needs to be
able to make that
investment so they have stake in the game,
but also that they have
access to the product to do
their home exercise appropriately.
So that's one aspect of it.
The other one is my favorite,
is Stop Pain Clinical.
That's my day job,
is that introducing them
early to a topical pain
relief product that
provides temporary relief
can really help them during
those first one two and
three visits that can be
very difficult and
challenging for a patient
because we all know that
those cases of after that
first visit they're a
little bit sore they're
like oh man is this really
doing more harm than good
but you know they're using
muscles that they they
haven't used in a while and
they're getting through the
rehab so it gives you an
immediate education
opportunity to say hey this
is something I'm going to
give you in a case of a sample
and it's going to help you
with some pain relief that
you're going to have during
these early stages and
maybe beyond and then the
best part is that it starts
to open up the conversation
with the patient oh you
have this available here
and once the patient starts
asking you questions you're
never selling yeah it's
really now just making sure
that they have the ability
to make their choice and
the right choice for them
for themselves and their household
Yeah.
Education explaining when I
moved the the goalpost from
I need to do something to
get someone else to do something right.
That's hard, right?
When I changed it to I make suggestions,
you make decisions.
So my only goal in this
situation is to achieve understanding.
I want to make sure you
understand what I'm saying.
And then you're going to
make that decision.
And I'm going to remove
myself from that outcome.
When I explain that to PTs,
they're like they get a
little better at it.
Then I explain I give my dad example.
My dad was a New York City fireman.
They didn't really have to sell stop, drop,
and roll or call nine one one.
If there's a fire, their job was just like,
make sure you understand it
and make sure you understand it.
We're going to hit you with
it in school billboards, the whole nine.
When you move that,
it becomes less about selling again,
this bad thing and more about explaining.
And then ultimately we make suggestions.
They're going to make decisions.
And I think PT's grasp on that.
We're okay with educating.
Yes.
And think about like it's
also the everybody thinks
Amazon is the most convenient thing.
No,
the most convenient thing is to be able
to purchase that item that
can help you at that moment.
Right at that moment,
because then you can immediately say,
think about like a TheraBand.
Most people look at a
clumped up piece of rubber
and they're thinking like,
what do I do with this thing?
And they but they now can
actually get that product
when they need it.
and immediately learn the
best way to use it.
Bingo.
And then you go to Amazon
and there's things that are close.
Like my buddy would be like,
make sure you get this tool
for this project that I'm
on and there's two.
And I'm like, which one is it, right?
Is there a difference?
And he's like, oh no,
if you bought that one,
we wouldn't be able to do the job,
you know?
So it's like,
make sure they get the right
thing in the right time.
And then that added bonuses,
they're going to know how
to use it appropriately and
what to avoid.
That you become part of that
experience because you're the Yoda,
you're the guide.
Yes, exactly.
You want to remove as many
barriers as possible.
Kind of goes back to not only adherence,
but now we're talking about
outcomes because the sooner,
if there's any disruption,
let's say they bought the
right red TheraBand that
they were supposed to from
Amazon and it arrives a day
and a half later or two days later,
it's delayed.
Now there's a gap.
There's now like, oh,
do they remember exactly
the right technique, the right form?
So the fact that they're leaving
Your your office,
your clinic with the
product they need to be
able to walk home or get
home and actually do the
exercise that's going to
make sure there's more
continuity with what they
did in the clinic.
And there's no there's less
risk for disruption because
they have everything they
need to get started.
Yeah, time is of the essence.
Now, for someone who's just starting out,
they're still listening to
this episode ten minutes in, right?
And they're like, OK,
you've convinced me to at
least sniff around this
idea of retail in my clinic space.
What's the easiest way to
integrate retail into a
clinic visit without making
it feel like a pitch?
That's the thing.
That's the thing I think
clinicians don't want to do
is they don't want to feel icky.
Yeah, well, first off, well,
it's a key thing.
And I would say
Right out of the gate, engage your team.
Get them involved.
Make sure that they
understand what we're doing,
why we're doing it,
and also how we're going to do it.
And then make sure they're
involved with kind of doing
the rigor up front of what
are the right things we
want to focus in on.
And when you're talking
about integrating it into
the patient visit,
it is about making sure
that it adds to the visit,
that it's going to help with the outcome,
and it's going to help the
patient feel better.
And it's not something that
you are trying to force.
You don't want to do that.
You want to make sure that
your entire team says, yes,
when we're treating this type of patient,
we're going to integrate
these one or two things
throughout the visit to
make sure they have the
best visit possible.
And then it builds over time
because really the key
thing is once they go home
and do that first thing you
introduced them to, they come back.
And now it might be time to
assess and progress to something else.
Maybe think of like balance and stability.
You might have started
pretty basic at the
beginning just to get them
comfortable and moving,
whether it's rehab or
whatever the situation may be.
So then you're really
getting in this cadence and
your team is getting in
this cadence of what's the plan?
Like what's the strategy for this patient?
And products and tools
should always be part of it.
And they should be
thoughtful about how do I replicate this?
And how does the patient
replicate this in the best,
safest way possible at home?
And we keep building
throughout the process.
I would say integrate things
that you certainly have
done your due diligence on
to make sure they're the
right product that you feel
strongly about.
And they add to the visit
and really are never a commercial.
You don't want to be
somebody that just adds
shampoo to the salon
treatment just to sell shampoo.
That's not what it's about.
It's got to enhance what you're doing.
Yeah.
Love the way you put that.
Now, you don't have to use their name,
but is there somebody that comes to mind,
a clinic that maybe,
as you mentioned before,
had their arms crossed and
was sort of anti,
then maybe they uncrossed
their arms and they
embraced and made a major
shift in retail strategy
and did see results like that?
Well, yeah, what I found,
I won't have to name any names, but early,
I'll name one,
but it'll be in a very positive way.
But here's the common thread
that we see is that most
clinics that come to us,
we have this with Hyperice,
we have a mastermind that
we kind of take multiple
clinics through this
process to kind of get over
what you're talking about.
So,
but it's almost universal that they're
at a point of
where they're struggling, they're like,
we know we're surrounded by
reminders that we can be
better at what we're doing
and they just need somebody
to kind of guide them
through to make sure that
they have the kind of the
quick reminders of what
we're talking about,
little tips and best practices,
but also kind of knock down
these preconceived notions
that it is about selling because revenue,
I always say, is a byproduct of this.
Just yes,
just do this and good things will
come financially.
But it really always kind of
we kind of ground everybody
in this right from the beginning.
The first meeting,
I would do something
similar to what we're the
conversation we're having
with a group of ten clinics and say, hey,
guys, first off,
let's talk about what
challenges you're facing.
And of course,
they say the same ones we
hear every single time.
And then we just kind of
work through it in a
discussion conversation and
develop those strategies.
First off,
let's all level set on the fact
that we're here to do good, right?
We're here to do good.
And this is not about selling products.
So my favorite is Rolf Schultz.
And I shouldn't say favorite.
I don't have favorites.
But the most recent one,
we did our first cohort for
the Clinic Retail
Mastermind down in Texas.
and extremely engaged.
He reached out pretty much
weekly with us over a
quarter towards the end of the year.
And they had ideas, they had creativity,
they had some challenges along the way.
And we just kept chipping away at it.
And then the results really blew away,
I think, anybody's expectations.
And the best part about it
is that I saw them grow.
every week of the way.
So yeah,
maybe their arms were a little bit
crossed,
but it was more about how do we
figure this out?
And we were able to take it
step by step with very easy,
kind of simple,
repeatable steps throughout the process.
And now their team's off and running.
Love that.
If a clinic wanted to get started today,
what's the one thing they should do?
The first thing they should
do right now to see immediate impact.
And then I'm also going to
ask a follow-up question.
What's the deal with that mastermind?
How does someone find out more about that?
Yeah, the first thing I would do is...
I'll try not to be biased here.
So this will be just kind of, I'll do two.
The first one is always look
for ways to add something
during the first visit with that patient.
So I always say the easiest one, again,
the biased one is stop paying clinical.
Make sure you're setting
that expectation about
having access to topical
pain relief and using one
after their visit.
So that's the best way to get started.
The other one is if you're
giving away TheraBand, stop now.
And if you take that one
head on with your team,
and there's going to be a
lot of uncomfortable, oh,
they're already paying so much.
And what I would say to them,
if you can get over that hurdle,
which we would help them do,
everything else is smooth
sailing because it's the
most important one.
You think about if you're given something,
if you're a patient and
you're given one or two TheraBands.
and they're clumped up and
they're cut off of a roll
right in front of you.
If you get those,
are you truly going to
value those and understand
the true utility and the
amazing things you can do
with an elastic resistance band?
So if you can get your team over that hump,
again, you're going to be in a great,
great position to win.
Yeah.
And then what's the deal
with that mastermind?
How does that I mean,
I've never heard of this.
I've known I know, Eric, I just met you.
What's the deal?
Yes,
I've known Eric from with Hyperice and
normal tech for many years,
and we've always had this
kind of shared passion
around helping helping clinics.
with their cash-based services and retail.
So what we do is we kind of
meet with groups of clinics at a time.
We try to find eight to ten
that reach out to us to
reserve their spot.
And over the course of kind
of like a six-week period,
we take them through
one-hour sessions where
they are typically on there
themselves or they can send
a proxy if they have a conflict,
but we record everything.
We go through it,
we provide feedback and
tools to kind of get
through this and put
together a great system for
their clinic retail.
And we did one,
the initial cohort back in Q four,
which Rolf Schultz was a part of.
And they all were great, engaged,
showed up.
I think everybody had
perfect attendance for the most part.
So that was really nice to see.
And so now we're looking at
adding another ten,
which I think we have.
uh already um because we
just came off of brand
triumph and we had a lot of
interesting parties so we
have ten but we're gonna
look at doing a a parallel
one so we can run multiple
at the same time and then
we're looking at doing a
kind of a a larger virtual
kickoff where we can have a
longer format where people
can just pick one evening
and get two to three hours
of a boot camp done with us
so but the one that's most
important is the
this kind of weekly mastermind.
And the way to do that is
just all you have to do is
go fill out a quick form
and it reserves a spot for them.
And it's S-T-O-P-A dot I-N
forward slash mastermind.
And I'll make sure you have that as well.
But that's the easiest way to do it.
Smart.
I mean, just smart.
I mean,
you said at the beginning of the show,
right?
Even if people didn't believe you,
they're like,
this guy sells stuff for a living.
He's going to sell me.
Yeah.
You said my real job is education,
and you just said we're
doing a mastermind,
which is PTs are very
comfortable with this
because that's college, right?
A mastermind,
you get a bunch of people
together who don't know something,
and you walk through as a
cohort for mutual success.
If people wanted to reach you directly,
Paul, and wanted to find out more,
not just about the mastermind,
but about Stop Paying Clinical,
where would you send them?
I would actually do it
through that same email or that same link,
that stopa.in forward slash mastermind.
And if for some reason they
just want to reach out and talk to me,
they certainly can call me.
Seriously, I know it's going to be crazy,
but they can call me anytime.
We take pride in the fact of
being available whenever people need us.
So do you want me to give my
number right now?
If you're going to give your number,
I'll give them my number.
Yeah, go for it.
Yeah,
it's a four four zero three nine six
four three six one.
And they can text that number.
They can call and we can
jump right into a
conversation about clinic
retail or anything else
that I can do to help out.
Love it.
All right, Paul,
we have a tradition on the show.
It's called the parting shot.
It's your last chance for a
mic drop moment, a soapbox statement.
What's one one idea,
one concept you'd want to
leave with the audience as we wrap up?
Right.
So, Mike,
I got to get a mic drop while
you're setting some and
setting me up for either
success or failure.
Right.
So I would say right now
it's all about creativity
and people want to have fun
right at work.
And they certainly have the
good days and the bad days.
But
The key thing that I would
challenge everybody with is
make clinic retail fun, engage your staff,
empower your staff,
not just your clinical staff,
your entire team, your front desk,
and say, hey, guys, get creative.
Come up with an idea.
Throw something crazy out there.
Decorate.
know right come up with a
fun theme we've got some uh
we're going into spring so
we've got um people running
and being more active we've
got golfers and we've got
the masters coming whatever
time this podcast airs I
don't know but think about
what's going on around you
over the next several you
know several weeks and
challenge your team to be creative
When patients come in,
they see something different,
meaning they ask questions.
Get them to ask questions.
And you guys can text me a
quick image of that creativity,
and I'll make sure that
there's nice prizes for everybody.
And that's where Hyperice comes in.
They'll chip in with us,
and you know all the great
things that they have.
So that's my mic drop moment
is be creative.
Send in some images of your
team really going above and beyond,
and we'll make sure to take care of them.
I think that also ties this
whole episode up with the bow,
which is like, make it yourself.
So by you adding creativity,
Paul's telling you,
do your own version of this.
There's no real wrong.
If you believe in it and this is your way,
do it that way.
Paul Timko from Stop Pain Clinical.
Appreciate the time.
And thanks for making this
pretty clear and pretty
easy to understand.
No, appreciate it.
Thank you for the time and
the opportunity.
Love it.