I'm kind of like approaching
this a little bit as
independent versus tied to
any platform or anything.
Well, how you been, man?
Welcome back to the show.
Good to see you again.
Yes, it's awesome.
It's always a pleasure, Jimmy.
Thanks.
Not many guests I have to ask,
where are you?
But in your case, where are you?
Because your job sort of
allows you to be wherever
the hell you want.
Where are you right now?
That's so true.
We just rolled into eastern Tennessee,
so just outside the Smokies.
And when you say rolled into,
just if someone didn't
listen to the first episode we did,
where do you live?
Tell me about your domicile.
Yeah, that's okay.
So my wife and I,
we're both physical therapists,
and we've been doing
full-time travel in an RV
for five and a half years now.
Yeah, it's been pretty fantastic.
Who was the first to pitch this?
Was this you?
Was this your wife?
I don't know if I asked that before.
It was my wife, and I was hesitant.
Yeah, it was.
We were kind of...
Doing the grind, shuttling the kids.
We had real young kids at the time.
Before, afterwards, I commuted.
Forty-five minutes worked ten-hour days.
I barely saw them except for
my one daddy day.
Should we do something else with our life?
The talk started there.
Had a couple things happen
in our personal lives and we're like,
well,
life is honestly way too
short um so if we're
thinking about it why not
you know why not why not so
we gave ourselves a year
started out as uh contract
bts one parent would
homeschool the other one
would do you know the
three-month contract gig
and see cool stuff in
between um covet happened
which was interesting tried
to figure out what we were
going to do for ourselves I
think there was you know probably
twelve hundred and fifty
travel jobs for us to choose from.
And then the day after the
shutdowns happened.
Yep.
I think there was two.
I think it was two.
I think there was just two
companies that forgot to pull them,
you know.
Right.
And so, yes, we had to figure that out.
But things started opening back up.
I'm pretty much an outpatient guy.
It's what I stick to.
It's my gig and my MO.
Leah is much more flexible.
She's spent time directing
in assisted livings and
that kind of thing.
So
those settings started
opening up more gradually
to um to travel therapists
so she did some of that
work and and then I went
out we did uh visited
friends because we launched
from oregon basically even
though our family's in
indiana um so we weren't
opposed to traveling as you
can tell from the get-go um
but uh did a contract with
my old employer he's a
buddy of mine he said yes
we love you come and come
to work for me for three
months and so that was right at
The beginning of twenty two,
I think my contract started
like right at February.
And I said, Justin, I'm mobile.
I've got time.
How can I help you from the road?
And he said,
have you ever heard of
anything called RTM?
I was like, no.
So I figure it out for me.
I don't have the bandwidth
and just dig in.
So that that opened up a huge door.
So since twenty two, you know,
me digging in,
seeing the people side of things,
knowing that so well,
what it looks like to run a clinic.
And then what is RTM?
There was a disconnect.
You know,
the software guys don't know how
to talk clinic shop.
The clinic shop doesn't know
how to put in a new workflow.
And so I stepped in that bridge, you know,
called myself a consultant.
And that's what I've been
doing since pretty much.
Good for you.
I still run the RTM program
remotely for my buddy, too,
which is a way to do it.
So you're I mean, you know,
you said this before.
it's a, you're not the quarterback.
Cause that's the person in the clinic.
You're not in the clinic.
You're not on the sideline.
You're like up in the,
you're like the offensive
coordinator with the,
with the headset on up in the sky box,
but the sky box can be anywhere.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah, it can, it can,
it can be anywhere and it can be,
it can be in the office of
the clinic to anywhere and in between,
but it doesn't have to be right.
It doesn't have to be,
it kind of allows that.
And that's,
That's a cool, cool place.
You know,
I'm trying to figure out how to
take advantage of being remote.
What can I offer from what
I've learned in my one and
a half decades of being a PT?
And there is a movement and
I'm sure you're aware of it,
where there's a surplus of
PTs that now want to be remote,
trying to find these
different jobs and stuff.
And I say, you know what?
It,
A lot of those folks,
it's a really cool happenstance.
We were going to do Christmas in Arkansas,
Hot Springs, Arkansas, you know.
OK, let's do it there.
It's a little warmer than
central Indiana where our family is.
And then we'll work our way
south as as winter progresses.
um so on the way down I had
a uh he's now a friend of
mine reached out to me on
linkedin and said hey you
know I'm in the pt world um
my dad owns a few pt
clinics he's like I'm
wondering if rtm something
I can do remotely for him
and then maybe scale it
because I've got a lot of
different connections of
you know friends that own
clinics in arkansas maybe I
could be the arkansas rtm
guy or whatever so we just
sat down over beer,
which is where a lot of
good talks happen.
And I was like, yeah, dude, I'll help you.
And so from that,
that spurred me because if
there was one of those guys,
there was at least, you know,
a thousand more somewhere
out there in the country.
So what I found is where RTM
becomes very valuable is a
part of the team
runs it.
So a part of the clinic team, if you will,
allocating one of your staff,
maybe it's a motivated
staff member that wants to
move half clinic,
half remote or something
like that to start with.
But they're a part of the team.
They've got good
communication with the
other therapists that are
the quarterback on the
field doing the thing.
They're the coach.
They're sort of the go-between.
And so that's the model that
I believe benefits the patient the most,
makes things run most efficiently.
in the clinic as well um and
so that's the workflow that
I preach as as the most
efficient successful rtm
model um so what I did was
wrote a course for phil
basically in mind you know
um he's the guy that I ran
into and so wrote a course
with him in mind saying
you're motivated let me
take you from everywhere
from choosing a platform to
proposing this to
leadership to designing the
workflow to training
much as I can take off your
plate let's do that and
then finally what do you do
with these codes to bill so
built that course and then
on the flip side of things
trying to present it to
owners to say this is what
works and let me guide you
through what works well
finding that individual or
how do you allocate time to
your staff to make this work because
I'm afraid that RTM is
getting muddled again in the space.
You know, it's really exciting.
People hopped on before too
many people were prepared.
Then that kind of faltered out.
Now there's a little bit more research.
But then where do we go from here?
So I just want to make sure
it's done well.
And that's that's kind of
the message that that I'm presenting,
you know,
through through the two courses I wrote.
So you're teaching
therapists how to build
programs themselves.
You created a course.
You're like, hey, listen,
if I create this for a
friend or one clinic, this works for
most if not all like I don't
want to say it's just a
universal fix but it's it's
a process right so it's
understanding this thing
that everybody was looking
at and like okay that's
cute I'm gonna wait for
someone else to jump in
though because I don't know
what this is but uh that's
what we know what early
adopters are what do you
think or what do you come
across as one of the
biggest misconceptions
therapists have about rtm
and what's the reality when
it's done right I think
that the biggest misconception is
It represents, RTM,
when you chunk it apart,
it represents a lot of what
us therapists do already, honestly.
There's a lot of things that go in.
We supply something to our
patients that's going to
support the research that
we know the change happens
outside of those two magic,
forty-five-minute sessions a week.
The change really happens with habit,
strength, mobility,
with the patient doing
their stuff outside.
that's something we provide
already if we can capture
that and demonstrate that
then we can we can bill for
that time um the extras
that we do outside of the
clinic in support of the
patient and what they're
doing that goes in and
wraps up into other um
billable codes too so I think
That was funny.
I was thinking about having
a chat with you.
And if you want to insert
this clip afterwards, it's great.
But what came to mind was
Tommy boys in the cafe with
the role and his pretty new pet, you know,
and I feel like that's what
happened initially where
clinic owners were like, oh, well,
I'm just going to ask my
therapist to just do this
stuff and bill for it.
And all of a sudden we can bill.
So all the questions that I got were,
Once a platform was chose,
how do I bill for it?
And it's like, whoa,
there's a lot in between
there where you're
establishing a program.
I mean,
if you were going to offer a niche
specialty like, I don't know,
TMJ in your clinic or something like that,
right?
You better have somebody
that took some courses on it,
marketed the dentist to
physicians and did all that stuff,
owns it, runs it.
And then that becomes a profitable extra,
you know, you can offer.
It's not similar when you talk about RTM.
I think you said some important words,
right?
From an implementation standpoint.
I always like to ask this
question because it speeds things up.
If this goes bad, who gets in trouble?
Because if nobody owns it,
then it's not going to get done right.
So that's why you're saying
someone in the clinic
should be the owner of this.
And so if it goes poorly or goes well,
it's not just who gets in trouble,
but that's the fastest way
to figure it out.
If this doesn't do what we
think it'll do or it underperforms,
who gets in trouble?
Or...
The opposite question
doesn't work because if I go,
if this goes well,
who gets patted on the back?
And everybody's like, me.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
I want to know who's worried
about it if it doesn't go right,
who gets in trouble.
That's the person who needs
to understand it so well
from beginning to end.
You compared it to if you're
going to install a TMJ
service line, who's going to start,
where are the patients coming from?
What are the, how do they get here?
What does our marketing look
like on the website when they get here?
What's do we have the right tools?
And then what's the followup?
Like somebody who has to own
the process from beginning to end.
Yeah.
A hundred percent on surface level,
RTM seems easy.
We're doing a lot of this already.
So let me bill for it.
Um,
There's a lot in between
there that needs to be
accounted for and nuances that occur.
These codes weren't just
slapped out there to give us props,
though they do.
There's a lot of nuances
that make sense that it's a
whole combination thing.
It's a whole program that
relates to each other in
terms of the code.
So much focus is on the codes.
Let's make the program thing
and let's designate somebody.
I think that owners are
missing a good chance to
award somebody in their
clinic that ability to do
that and then shoot come on
let's stand up pts like you
know if you want if you desire
to be off at three o'clock,
but still want to make some money,
like go spend three o'clock
until seven o'clock with
your kids and then do this
stuff afterwards.
You can still like,
you can make life happen.
And be able to actually hit
those goals with those patients.
They want to hit those goals.
And we've said there's one
hundred and sixty eight hours in a week.
Let's say you get to one
hour sessions and that's pretty good.
Right.
What do you do?
How how are you able to help
affect change the other one
hundred and sixty six hours
a week with your patients?
The codes are there.
When you drop those codes, they get paid,
right, Matt?
Yeah, yeah.
Now there's a gap, right?
You started this episode by saying, listen,
the tech people don't understand clinical,
but vice versa.
Clinic doesn't understand tech.
So there's a gap.
We always say, I want to fill the gap,
right?
Find the gap.
Here's what that is.
So you mentioned before,
there needs to be a platform, right?
We don't want someone
managing this with sticky notes and stuff,
because that's what PTs are for.
We'll do it poorly.
We'll start doing sticky
notes and that'll work for an hour.
And then two hours later,
we're going to hate it and
we're going to throw them
all away and say it doesn't work, right?
So what should someone,
a clinic or a therapist
who's going to quarterback this,
look for when choosing the
right RTM solution in terms
of a platform?
Like what are the non-negotiables?
What are need to be and nice to have?
Yeah, great point.
Thanks for bringing that up.
So, and I kind of...
have had the opportunity to
touch see meet with a lot
of these developers that
are out there too and so
another service that has
proven valuable is let's
talk about your unique
situation almost like
Well, insurance agents exist for a reason.
They want to match you up
with the best insurance and stuff.
So there's agents to fill that role.
You know,
maybe I could be your RTM platform agent.
We talk about your clinic.
What are your good at?
Where do they what is your
current organic workflow?
look like?
Because that's step number one,
you want to mess with a
PT's time as little as possible,
make as few changes as possible.
So what are you using already?
What are they used to?
What kind of clientele do you serve?
And where do you want to
provide an extra boost to their care.
Let's start with those kinds
of big things.
And then we'll funnel down to, okay,
here's, here's a couple of your choices,
you know,
go talk to those guys and see
what they offer in the way
of EMR integration or you know,
all of those little
slimming down to make
things simple as fewer
clicks and nuances for your therapists.
But top is what's going to
serve the patient.
What are your PTs already
doing possibly that that
you could leverage a
platform or make make
something better in your
offerings to your therapist?
And then how slim line
streamline can it be with
with interfacing what
you're already using for
EMRs and that kind of stuff?
Somebody who's still
listening to us yammer on about RTM,
if they're still here, right?
What's something that you
would like sort of satisfy
or begin to satisfy their curiosity?
If they're like, all right, cool.
I'm that guy two years ago,
three years ago, who's like,
I don't know where to start.
Where would you send them?
Yeah.
So I talk to me.
Yeah.
Come and talk to me.
You know, Jim,
Jimmy's going to probably
list a way to get ahold of me.
That's fine.
Come and talk to me.
I offer, you know,
some free time that we can
just talk RTM and what it means for you.
What, you know, what are the nuances?
Um,
Pick up a podcast, read about it,
inform yourself,
educate yourself on what it
is more than just the codes
and how to build the codes.
Sure.
That's the end, right?
Yeah.
The codes are the end
because everything has to
come before that.
Number one,
you have to have the right patient.
You have to have the ability
to fill the gap, right?
You have to have the tech meets clinical.
The fact that the codes are
there is a nice little pot
of gold at the end of the rainbow.
You have to understand
what's that process to get there.
Make sure that it's reliable.
Good.
Make sure someone in your
clinic wants to do that,
is able to do that,
is empowered to do that,
understands they own that.
And then, yes,
when all those things fall into place,
that pot of gold is sitting there.
And we've been saying this for years.
I am actually a little
shocked more people haven't
adopted RTM as quickly as possible.
And here's the other thing
that I know that I was going to say.
The fact that tech companies
are investing in creating
the platform for this tells
you that people outside of
healthcare see the value in this.
They wouldn't be creating
the platforms and apps
unless they saw the closed loop, the ROI.
You know what's really cool?
Talking to several of the
CEOs that are creating these platforms,
they were patients that wanted this.
There it is.
They made it right.
Like your patients want it.
And if you, if you get something, you know,
you know, your patients.
So when you're looking at platforms,
get something, you know,
your patient's going to want, you know,
that's going to help them.
So yeah, there's totally a need for it.
It does take some startup
time to figure out the process.
All things, all good things should.
but it's going to allow you
to afford to give your
patients better care and
support your staff in different ways.
You know?
Yeah.
Well said.
All right.
Uh, Matt, just, just let them know.
Is there an email address or a website?
Like say it,
I'll put it in the show notes too,
but yeah, sure.
So, you know, keeping overhead low, right.
It's a, it's a Wix site.
Um, who cares?
So who cares?
Right.
So I think it's like jerk Matthew, um,
dot Wix, uh,
osprey rtm what I'd suggest
doing is get a hold of me
through linkedin
All the clicks for the is there.
So you can either search for
Osprey RTM Solutions or just Matt Jurek.
Either one will get you there.
And that's a great way to get old.
All right.
We're going to play a game, Matt.
You ready?
I didn't prepare you for this.
We're going to play a game.
Oh, no.
All right.
It's a bonus segment.
You're going to nail this.
So the game is called RV Life or RTM Life.
You got to pick.
Is it RV or RTM?
Or it could be both.
And then you can give me a
little explanation if you want.
You don't have to.
Okay, here's the first question.
Requires a strong Wi-Fi
signal at all times.
Is this RV life, RTM life, or both?
I'm going to go RTM life
because we have...
Lived in some pretty remote places.
However, Starlink is very helpful.
We can get to our battery.
We can run it off of our batteries.
So, oh boy, that's both.
Darn it.
I'm changing my answer.
Yeah, both.
Yeah, you always need Wi-Fi.
We've passed the point of no
return where you sort of need it.
You might want to be able to
turn on airplane mode every
once in a while.
I guess that's what I get to
call vacation when I turn it off.
Turn it off.
That is my vacation,
because life's a vacation, honestly.
Well, your life is a vacation, Matt.
Yes, and it could be.
Takes longer to set up than you think,
but once it's rolling, it's smooth.
Is that RV life, RTM life, or both?
Both.
Yeah.
It's both again.
Yeah, you got to prepare for RV life,
because I'm sure you're like,
it's going to be easy.
And then you're like, where do we shower?
Or how do we do these things?
And you're like, OK,
but once you figure it out,
it rolls smooth.
Same with RTM, I'm guessing.
Yep.
And there's still both of them.
There's still bumps in the road too.
Uh,
we had to have an axle fixed the other
day.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Stuff you didn't expect.
Uh,
occasionally gets disrupted by wild
animals.
Is that RV life, RTM life or both?
I have treated many patients
that I would consider animals, uh,
that would disrupt, disrupt my life.
Um,
but I'm going to,
I'm going to go to RV life
more on that one.
Yeah.
I'll be nice to my patients.
I'll give them good.
No, no wild animals in RTM.
Two more people constantly ask you, wait,
you can actually do that.
Is that RV life, RTM life or both?
Both.
That's definitely both.
Yeah.
The final one gives you way
more freedom than you expected.
Which one or both?
You know,
I got to go with RV life because
the freedom that I've had there.
RTM,
you still got to deal with people that
are going to that are going
to tell you places.
But, you know, hey,
jump on the RTM bandwagon and assist.
And who knows where to go?
You know,
be the next like my buddy is
going to be the next Arkansas RTM guy.
And freedom can come.
Yeah.
Uh, Matt Jurek, look him up on LinkedIn.
He's going to be your, um, RTM Sherpa.
He's going to be your RTM GPS.
There's the RV connection,
your RTM GPS to make sure
you go from lost to found.
Uh, Matt,
like keep doing this because I
think five years from now,
this will be obvious.
Someone's going to listen to
this in five years and be like, well,
obviously that's the way we're going.
It's not obvious now,
but I'm glad that it will be.
And you're going to help people get there.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm along for the ride.
Well done.
Good RV drop.
I'm a dad.