1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,359 Welcome to Podcast Insider. I'm Mackenzie Bennett, marketing 2 00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:04,740 director here at Blueberry. 3 00:00:05,359 --> 00:00:07,759 And I'm Mike Dell, vice president of customer 4 00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:09,059 relations here at Blueberry. 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,880 And I'm Dave Clements, technical support and social 6 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,625 media specialist here at Blueberry. And today, as 7 00:00:15,625 --> 00:00:17,304 we wrap up 2025, 8 00:00:17,304 --> 00:00:19,385 we're gonna talk about the year and some 9 00:00:19,385 --> 00:00:21,324 of the things that happened in podcasting. 10 00:00:21,945 --> 00:00:24,744 You're listening to Podcast Insider, a weekly podcast 11 00:00:24,744 --> 00:00:27,464 bringing insights, advice, and insider tips and tricks 12 00:00:27,464 --> 00:00:29,989 to help you start, grow, and thrive through 13 00:00:29,989 --> 00:00:32,149 podcasting with the support of your team here 14 00:00:32,149 --> 00:00:35,129 at Blueberry Podcasting. Welcome. Let's dive in. 15 00:00:36,229 --> 00:00:38,869 And I'd like to congratulate Mackenzie on her 16 00:00:38,869 --> 00:00:40,890 promotion to marketing director. 17 00:00:41,375 --> 00:00:44,094 So, that's something that happened just recently here 18 00:00:44,094 --> 00:00:45,314 in 2025. 19 00:00:45,854 --> 00:00:46,674 Thank you. 20 00:00:47,774 --> 00:00:49,234 Rounding out the year well. 21 00:00:50,174 --> 00:00:51,054 Yeah. So, 22 00:00:51,854 --> 00:00:54,734 there's a lot of things that happened this 23 00:00:54,734 --> 00:00:54,894 year, 24 00:00:56,030 --> 00:00:57,649 you know, in the in the industry. 25 00:00:58,030 --> 00:00:58,350 And, 26 00:00:59,229 --> 00:01:01,469 we put together a little list of things 27 00:01:01,469 --> 00:01:04,270 and, some new stories, which we'll probably have 28 00:01:04,270 --> 00:01:06,209 links to in the show notes. 29 00:01:06,670 --> 00:01:08,930 But, why don't you kick it off, Dave? 30 00:01:10,715 --> 00:01:13,995 Yeah. So kind of our first section here, 31 00:01:13,995 --> 00:01:15,114 I guess, would be, 32 00:01:15,674 --> 00:01:16,814 just the market, 33 00:01:17,754 --> 00:01:18,974 and listening behavior. 34 00:01:19,674 --> 00:01:20,734 So Riverside 35 00:01:21,034 --> 00:01:22,155 reports that, 36 00:01:22,555 --> 00:01:24,974 podcast audience numbers continue to climb. 37 00:01:25,409 --> 00:01:26,689 In 2025, 38 00:01:26,689 --> 00:01:29,329 over 584,000,000 39 00:01:29,329 --> 00:01:30,549 people listen to podcasts 40 00:01:31,009 --> 00:01:31,509 globally, 41 00:01:31,890 --> 00:01:34,229 and consumption habits are shifting. 42 00:01:34,930 --> 00:01:36,689 Yeah. And and what's cool about it is 43 00:01:36,689 --> 00:01:38,629 thirty four percent in the, 44 00:01:39,495 --> 00:01:40,394 in The US, 45 00:01:41,015 --> 00:01:44,614 have listened to podcasts, and, you know, the 46 00:01:44,614 --> 00:01:48,075 average is, like, eight point something percent 47 00:01:48,534 --> 00:01:50,555 or 8.3 48 00:01:50,854 --> 00:01:53,939 podcast episodes per week. So that's a little 49 00:01:53,939 --> 00:01:56,980 higher than it's been. I'm kind of impressed 50 00:01:56,980 --> 00:01:57,640 with that. 51 00:01:59,620 --> 00:02:01,460 Yeah. Those are I think those are pretty 52 00:02:01,460 --> 00:02:02,280 good numbers. 53 00:02:03,299 --> 00:02:05,000 And we're definitely seeing video, 54 00:02:05,734 --> 00:02:08,215 get into the podcast landscape. If anybody's been 55 00:02:08,215 --> 00:02:08,955 paying attention 56 00:02:09,254 --> 00:02:09,754 Yeah. 57 00:02:11,014 --> 00:02:12,474 Video. Video. Video. 58 00:02:13,175 --> 00:02:15,594 Yeah. YouTube took a big step, 59 00:02:16,375 --> 00:02:17,754 in 2025. 60 00:02:18,229 --> 00:02:20,329 So we're seeing a lot of those, and 61 00:02:20,629 --> 00:02:22,789 Riverside is saying that more than half of 62 00:02:22,789 --> 00:02:23,449 the shows, 63 00:02:24,469 --> 00:02:27,129 are now posting full video on YouTube. 64 00:02:27,590 --> 00:02:29,349 So I think that is from their 65 00:02:30,575 --> 00:02:33,615 That must be from their, their customer base 66 00:02:33,615 --> 00:02:34,014 because, 67 00:02:34,974 --> 00:02:36,814 I we don't see that here. We you 68 00:02:36,814 --> 00:02:38,995 know? Well, there's a a fair number. 69 00:02:39,694 --> 00:02:41,555 But, Yeah. That's their platform's 70 00:02:41,935 --> 00:02:45,474 information, I from what I gather. Yeah. Yeah. 71 00:02:45,689 --> 00:02:47,870 You know, which makes sense when they do 72 00:02:48,010 --> 00:02:48,909 video natively, 73 00:02:49,449 --> 00:02:51,849 but, I think we see it as a 74 00:02:51,849 --> 00:02:53,150 much smaller percentage. 75 00:02:54,250 --> 00:02:57,129 Yeah. It it's video is one of those 76 00:02:57,129 --> 00:02:59,165 things. It takes a lot more work to 77 00:02:59,165 --> 00:02:59,665 do. 78 00:03:00,044 --> 00:03:02,525 You know, now with something like Riverside where 79 00:03:02,525 --> 00:03:04,365 it's kind of all packaged up for you, 80 00:03:04,365 --> 00:03:06,145 that's it is a little easier. 81 00:03:06,844 --> 00:03:09,104 But, you know, think about this. You know? 82 00:03:09,564 --> 00:03:11,860 If I wanna do a podcast and I 83 00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:13,939 don't feel like shaving or combing my hair 84 00:03:13,939 --> 00:03:15,459 that morning, I don't you know, if I'm 85 00:03:15,459 --> 00:03:17,319 doing video, I gotta do all that. 86 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:20,340 And, you know, for for women, it's probably 87 00:03:20,340 --> 00:03:23,219 worse, you know, for, you know, getting ready 88 00:03:23,219 --> 00:03:24,519 to be camera ready. 89 00:03:25,125 --> 00:03:28,085 That is correct. Yeah. And, you know, it's 90 00:03:28,085 --> 00:03:29,925 like, you know, why why do we need 91 00:03:29,925 --> 00:03:31,685 to do that if you don't want to? 92 00:03:31,685 --> 00:03:34,245 Now there's nothing at all wrong with that. 93 00:03:34,245 --> 00:03:35,844 Again, you know, I I I have lots 94 00:03:35,844 --> 00:03:37,685 of strong opinions. I'll try to keep to 95 00:03:37,685 --> 00:03:38,965 myself here. But 96 00:03:39,870 --> 00:03:41,490 I also have strong opinions 97 00:03:42,430 --> 00:03:44,050 about being the one on video. 98 00:03:44,750 --> 00:03:46,990 That is not something I have any interest 99 00:03:46,990 --> 00:03:47,889 in whatsoever. 100 00:03:48,830 --> 00:03:49,330 And 101 00:03:50,270 --> 00:03:53,250 it's, you know, it's whatever you're comfortable with 102 00:03:53,645 --> 00:03:55,264 having your face, your 103 00:03:56,044 --> 00:03:56,944 your reputation, 104 00:03:57,644 --> 00:03:58,144 your 105 00:03:58,844 --> 00:04:01,084 name, everything out there to the public like 106 00:04:01,084 --> 00:04:01,584 that. 107 00:04:02,925 --> 00:04:05,985 That's just another that's going video is another 108 00:04:06,044 --> 00:04:08,240 level past an audio podcast for sure. Right. 109 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:09,540 And do what you're good at. 110 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,719 You know, if you're good at audio but, 111 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,120 freeze up on a camera, don't turn on 112 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,519 the camera. I mean, you know, do if 113 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:19,574 you wanna do some, like, video clips or 114 00:04:19,574 --> 00:04:20,875 whatever, do animations 115 00:04:21,254 --> 00:04:24,375 or slide shows or something like that, you 116 00:04:24,375 --> 00:04:26,954 know, as far as promotional ways. But, 117 00:04:27,334 --> 00:04:29,495 you know, you don't have to do video 118 00:04:29,495 --> 00:04:30,935 or at least you don't have to be 119 00:04:30,935 --> 00:04:31,675 on camera. 120 00:04:32,420 --> 00:04:35,319 Yeah. We just published a YouTube video probably 121 00:04:35,860 --> 00:04:38,199 a month or two ago specifically about, 122 00:04:39,379 --> 00:04:42,180 video podcasting and should you do it. And 123 00:04:42,180 --> 00:04:44,500 the conclusion, if you want the TLDR, is 124 00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:46,360 basically, if you have time, 125 00:04:46,895 --> 00:04:49,134 do it. If you're comfortable, do it, but 126 00:04:49,134 --> 00:04:50,435 don't feel like you have to. 127 00:04:50,895 --> 00:04:52,975 Right. You know, there's plenty of podcasts. You 128 00:04:52,975 --> 00:04:53,475 know? 129 00:04:54,415 --> 00:04:54,915 Anecdotally, 130 00:04:55,215 --> 00:04:56,735 I you know, I don't have any hard 131 00:04:56,735 --> 00:04:58,355 data on this, but anecdotally, 132 00:04:58,735 --> 00:04:59,235 podcasts 133 00:04:59,775 --> 00:05:00,915 listening slash 134 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:04,860 viewing. You know? So there's some podcasts that 135 00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:06,939 I know of that do both a full 136 00:05:06,939 --> 00:05:09,439 video version and a full audio version, 137 00:05:10,459 --> 00:05:15,199 via RSS. And via RSS, it's about 10% 138 00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:16,639 watch the video 139 00:05:17,154 --> 00:05:18,134 and 90% 140 00:05:18,675 --> 00:05:19,814 listen to the audio, 141 00:05:20,514 --> 00:05:22,995 which still is pretty good. You get 10% 142 00:05:22,995 --> 00:05:25,875 more audience on video, you know, but, you 143 00:05:25,875 --> 00:05:28,834 know, the the percentage isn't really you know, 144 00:05:28,834 --> 00:05:30,834 when they say the the juice isn't worth 145 00:05:30,834 --> 00:05:31,495 the squeeze. 146 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,000 Yeah. You know? But then, you know, these 147 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,199 these particular shows also post on YouTube, x, 148 00:05:38,199 --> 00:05:41,399 Facebook, whatever, so they get some additional views 149 00:05:41,399 --> 00:05:44,139 that way, which aren't reflected in their podcast 150 00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:47,079 stats. But still, it's a smaller percentage that 151 00:05:47,079 --> 00:05:47,579 watch 152 00:05:48,144 --> 00:05:49,745 rather than listen. And a lot of people 153 00:05:49,745 --> 00:05:51,125 on YouTube and and, 154 00:05:51,745 --> 00:05:53,285 one of our teammates, Sean, 155 00:05:53,665 --> 00:05:55,665 says he's kinda doing that a lot now 156 00:05:55,665 --> 00:05:58,464 is he does watch the video version of 157 00:05:58,464 --> 00:05:59,125 a podcast 158 00:05:59,504 --> 00:06:01,665 on YouTube, but he's generally not looking at 159 00:06:01,665 --> 00:06:02,324 the screen. 160 00:06:02,860 --> 00:06:03,600 He's listening 161 00:06:04,220 --> 00:06:06,019 and doing something else, and every once in 162 00:06:06,019 --> 00:06:07,259 a while, I might look up at the 163 00:06:07,259 --> 00:06:07,759 screen. 164 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:11,579 So, you know, just because they listen on 165 00:06:11,579 --> 00:06:12,079 YouTube 166 00:06:12,699 --> 00:06:14,699 doesn't mean they're actually paying attention to what's 167 00:06:14,699 --> 00:06:16,775 on the screen. So that's Mhmm. You know, 168 00:06:16,775 --> 00:06:18,855 just like these are anecdotal. I don't have 169 00:06:18,855 --> 00:06:20,875 any hard evidence of any of this, but, 170 00:06:21,095 --> 00:06:23,335 you know, just just my gut feeling and 171 00:06:23,335 --> 00:06:24,395 from what I've seen. 172 00:06:26,455 --> 00:06:26,855 But, 173 00:06:27,495 --> 00:06:29,835 anyway, let's press on here. 174 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:32,579 So the industry 175 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:33,620 itself 176 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,660 is is doing good. It's doing well, 177 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,699 quote, unquote, remains strong. 178 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:41,040 There is 179 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:42,500 you know, 180 00:06:43,264 --> 00:06:45,745 we took a dip, I think, just for 181 00:06:45,745 --> 00:06:47,444 a cup for a year or two there, 182 00:06:47,824 --> 00:06:49,125 the industry with 183 00:06:49,504 --> 00:06:50,645 a dip in listeners 184 00:06:51,185 --> 00:06:52,245 and creators, 185 00:06:52,705 --> 00:06:54,485 but I think that was you know, 186 00:06:55,439 --> 00:06:56,100 we spiked, 187 00:06:56,879 --> 00:06:58,740 in the beginning of 2020 188 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,579 and into '21, and then things kinda started 189 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,699 to dip for a while in '22, '23, 190 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,879 twenty four ish. But this year this year 191 00:07:08,879 --> 00:07:10,579 was okay. Yeah. That's 192 00:07:11,415 --> 00:07:14,154 that's good. We're we're gaining podcasters, 193 00:07:14,774 --> 00:07:17,735 and we're gaining podcast listeners. And, actually, the 194 00:07:17,735 --> 00:07:20,074 listener side is growing more than the podcaster 195 00:07:20,214 --> 00:07:20,714 side, 196 00:07:21,574 --> 00:07:23,995 but, you know, both are doing fine. 197 00:07:24,535 --> 00:07:25,035 Again, 198 00:07:26,050 --> 00:07:28,370 you know, the the barrier to entry into 199 00:07:28,370 --> 00:07:28,870 podcasting, 200 00:07:29,889 --> 00:07:31,910 especially with just audio, is 201 00:07:32,449 --> 00:07:34,530 Mhmm. Is it's low now. 202 00:07:34,930 --> 00:07:36,150 I mean, you can 203 00:07:36,530 --> 00:07:39,454 jump on Blueberry and in ten minutes, get 204 00:07:39,454 --> 00:07:41,714 your feed put together, record something. 205 00:07:42,095 --> 00:07:44,334 All the editing tools are so much better 206 00:07:44,334 --> 00:07:45,555 than they used to be. 207 00:07:46,175 --> 00:07:48,334 Oh, yeah. You know, all of that stuff, 208 00:07:48,334 --> 00:07:48,834 distribution, 209 00:07:49,214 --> 00:07:52,115 you know, we've we've just revamped our our 210 00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:53,750 destinations 211 00:07:54,449 --> 00:07:55,889 to where a lot of those are just 212 00:07:55,889 --> 00:07:58,529 one click. One click, agree to this, you 213 00:07:58,529 --> 00:08:01,009 know, hit apply, you're you're on. You know, 214 00:08:01,009 --> 00:08:04,470 Apple, Spotify, Index, you know, the the three 215 00:08:05,009 --> 00:08:07,089 major ones, and then all the other ones 216 00:08:07,089 --> 00:08:09,884 are are fairly easy to do. And, you 217 00:08:09,884 --> 00:08:12,305 know, that wasn't the case five years ago. 218 00:08:13,004 --> 00:08:15,725 Yeah. So Yeah. Waiting a week to see 219 00:08:15,725 --> 00:08:17,745 if you're gonna be on Apple or 220 00:08:18,125 --> 00:08:20,125 or something like that. Those days are over. 221 00:08:20,125 --> 00:08:22,464 That's that's pretty quick now. So, 222 00:08:23,599 --> 00:08:25,120 I I don't know. I I kind of 223 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,019 expect to see 224 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,519 more podcasters coming into the space because it 225 00:08:29,519 --> 00:08:32,000 is easier. You know, we've got microphones that 226 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,399 plug right into your iPhone that actually sound 227 00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:37,294 pretty good. Mhmm. They're, you know, maybe not 228 00:08:37,294 --> 00:08:38,274 studio level, 229 00:08:38,575 --> 00:08:41,294 but they're probably the equivalent to what we 230 00:08:41,294 --> 00:08:43,875 were using Good enough. Eight years ago. 231 00:08:44,495 --> 00:08:46,815 Good enough. They're not the yeah. They're not 232 00:08:46,815 --> 00:08:49,534 the stick microphones that sounded like you talking 233 00:08:49,534 --> 00:08:51,154 into a wet paper bag. 234 00:08:51,670 --> 00:08:52,170 Or, 235 00:08:52,950 --> 00:08:55,590 earbuds like, Dave was last week on this 236 00:08:55,590 --> 00:08:56,970 up on this show. 237 00:08:57,750 --> 00:08:59,509 Yeah. I just gotta pick on you a 238 00:08:59,509 --> 00:09:01,450 little bit. Didn't sound bad. 239 00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:04,309 You know, one of the other things I've 240 00:09:04,309 --> 00:09:04,710 seen, 241 00:09:06,705 --> 00:09:07,365 is ads. 242 00:09:07,985 --> 00:09:08,964 You know, the 243 00:09:09,345 --> 00:09:10,884 the thing about ads 244 00:09:11,745 --> 00:09:12,705 is, you know, they're 245 00:09:13,345 --> 00:09:15,044 like, Edison came out with 246 00:09:15,825 --> 00:09:18,625 a research that people don't mind listening to 247 00:09:18,625 --> 00:09:20,700 ads. Well, you didn't talk to me. I 248 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:21,759 promise you. 249 00:09:22,460 --> 00:09:24,940 You know? I I understand the need for 250 00:09:24,940 --> 00:09:27,899 ads. I understand, you know, our casters gotta 251 00:09:27,899 --> 00:09:28,639 make money, 252 00:09:29,660 --> 00:09:31,899 you know, if they wanna keep doing this, 253 00:09:31,899 --> 00:09:34,325 you know, and there's businesses out there that 254 00:09:34,325 --> 00:09:36,565 that's what they do is, make money from 255 00:09:36,565 --> 00:09:38,345 ads on podcast. I get that. 256 00:09:38,644 --> 00:09:40,424 And I will put up with a certain 257 00:09:40,565 --> 00:09:42,345 amount of that, but 258 00:09:42,725 --> 00:09:44,245 some of it is getting to the point 259 00:09:44,245 --> 00:09:44,985 of ridiculous. 260 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:48,660 Sorry. I had a rant on my regular 261 00:09:48,660 --> 00:09:50,519 show the other day about that. 262 00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:51,720 Anyway 263 00:09:52,180 --> 00:09:52,660 but, 264 00:09:53,540 --> 00:09:56,660 you know, creators and podcast networks exploring different 265 00:09:56,660 --> 00:09:57,160 monetization 266 00:09:57,620 --> 00:10:00,585 strategies other than ads, like, subscriptions, 267 00:10:01,205 --> 00:10:02,665 listener support sponsorships, 268 00:10:03,445 --> 00:10:06,404 value for value, not the Bitcoin kind, but 269 00:10:06,404 --> 00:10:08,884 just, you know, we provide value, send us 270 00:10:08,884 --> 00:10:10,884 some money for the value, you know, that 271 00:10:10,884 --> 00:10:11,705 kind of thing. 272 00:10:12,259 --> 00:10:14,659 Yeah. I'd much rather do that than get 273 00:10:14,659 --> 00:10:15,960 involved in Bitcoin. 274 00:10:16,820 --> 00:10:18,919 Yeah. Exactly. You know? But, you know, 275 00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:20,899 I I do that. I have a couple 276 00:10:20,899 --> 00:10:21,720 of Patreon 277 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:24,820 people that I support because I like their 278 00:10:24,820 --> 00:10:27,000 YouTube channel or I like their podcast. 279 00:10:28,154 --> 00:10:30,574 And that's a much better way than getting 280 00:10:30,714 --> 00:10:32,014 a whole bunch of ads. 281 00:10:32,794 --> 00:10:34,394 And, you know, and then it works out 282 00:10:34,394 --> 00:10:37,434 for the creators too. But ads are fine. 283 00:10:37,434 --> 00:10:39,115 Again, you know, if that's what you wanna 284 00:10:39,115 --> 00:10:41,120 do, do it. You know, we have some 285 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,120 tools to help you get ads for your 286 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:43,860 show, and 287 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,879 and, you know, it's all good. But, again, 288 00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:49,040 you know, there's a certain number of audience 289 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,480 members that are not gonna put up with 290 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:50,980 that. 291 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,394 So I think part of my 292 00:10:54,014 --> 00:10:54,834 ad reasoning, 293 00:10:55,855 --> 00:10:57,235 you know, whether I'm on 294 00:10:58,574 --> 00:11:00,975 the the okay side or the annoyed side 295 00:11:00,975 --> 00:11:02,814 of it is what is the quality of 296 00:11:02,814 --> 00:11:04,674 this episode that I'm listening to 297 00:11:05,214 --> 00:11:07,289 and overall the show as well. 298 00:11:09,449 --> 00:11:11,690 If if it doesn't sound great, if it's 299 00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:13,470 not, you know, well 300 00:11:13,850 --> 00:11:16,169 thought out, if they're just kinda rambling, if 301 00:11:16,169 --> 00:11:17,470 they're doing all that stuff, 302 00:11:18,009 --> 00:11:19,949 I'm I'm gonna get sick of the ads. 303 00:11:20,524 --> 00:11:23,004 If it is professionally done, if it sounds 304 00:11:23,004 --> 00:11:25,665 amazing, if it, you know, came out 305 00:11:26,365 --> 00:11:27,264 at a timely 306 00:11:28,045 --> 00:11:30,125 place during the week, like, you know, if 307 00:11:30,125 --> 00:11:31,965 it's news and it's relevant and, like, this 308 00:11:31,965 --> 00:11:34,144 is actually good information I wanted right now, 309 00:11:34,569 --> 00:11:36,409 I don't care if there's ads because this 310 00:11:36,409 --> 00:11:37,069 is free. 311 00:11:37,370 --> 00:11:38,769 Yeah. And some of them do the ads. 312 00:11:38,769 --> 00:11:40,649 It goes back and forth. And some of 313 00:11:40,649 --> 00:11:43,209 them do the ads really well. You know? 314 00:11:43,209 --> 00:11:45,449 Right. And that's that's the other thing. You 315 00:11:45,449 --> 00:11:45,949 know? 316 00:11:46,664 --> 00:11:47,164 There's 317 00:11:47,625 --> 00:11:50,424 some platforms out there that have programmatic ads, 318 00:11:50,424 --> 00:11:51,964 YouTube being one of them, 319 00:11:52,345 --> 00:11:54,264 where if you don't pay YouTube to get 320 00:11:54,264 --> 00:11:56,424 rid of the ads, they you know, somebody's 321 00:11:56,424 --> 00:11:58,504 in the middle of a sentence and this 322 00:11:58,504 --> 00:12:00,524 irrelevant ad comes in there. 323 00:12:00,839 --> 00:12:03,079 Yeah. Now if I'm listening to, you know, 324 00:12:03,079 --> 00:12:04,139 something from, 325 00:12:04,839 --> 00:12:06,279 I don't know, 99% 326 00:12:06,279 --> 00:12:08,279 Invisible is one of the shows I listen 327 00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:10,779 to, and they do the ads really well. 328 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,079 They they read them. You know, you would 329 00:12:13,079 --> 00:12:14,539 think it's part of the show, 330 00:12:14,955 --> 00:12:17,514 and they're always relevant to whatever they're talking 331 00:12:17,514 --> 00:12:20,175 about or at least in the subject matter. 332 00:12:20,634 --> 00:12:22,555 That's exactly what I mean when I say 333 00:12:22,555 --> 00:12:25,115 I don't care. So if if I have 334 00:12:25,115 --> 00:12:27,754 some advice for people who wanna monetize their 335 00:12:27,754 --> 00:12:28,254 show. 336 00:12:29,669 --> 00:12:31,129 Get really good at ads. 337 00:12:31,589 --> 00:12:33,990 You need to practice doing these. This isn't 338 00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:36,629 something that you just throw in. Like, actually 339 00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:40,009 take take time outside of recording the episode 340 00:12:40,309 --> 00:12:42,389 and practice doing these and decide, like, oh, 341 00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:44,625 that one's better than the other. Like, maybe 342 00:12:44,625 --> 00:12:46,065 that we should do it this way type 343 00:12:46,065 --> 00:12:48,325 of thing because, like, you could really 344 00:12:49,184 --> 00:12:51,285 you could be a thorn in someone's listening 345 00:12:51,345 --> 00:12:53,764 experience or you could just be a blip 346 00:12:53,904 --> 00:12:56,404 and, like Yeah. They'll they'll take it. 347 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,519 I think to kind of tack onto that 348 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:00,600 as well, if you're not interested in actually 349 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,840 taking the time to do the ads, I 350 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,100 guess, what you would call, quote, unquote, right, 351 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,820 maybe you just start a Patreon or, 352 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:09,660 a coffee or whatever 353 00:13:10,095 --> 00:13:12,735 and do that value for value thing? That's 354 00:13:12,735 --> 00:13:14,674 probably a better way to go. 355 00:13:15,855 --> 00:13:18,095 That way you're you're being more honest with 356 00:13:18,095 --> 00:13:20,334 your audience. I think that was always something 357 00:13:20,334 --> 00:13:22,970 that that was my approach. I don't want 358 00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:24,730 to have to sit there and figure out 359 00:13:24,730 --> 00:13:27,289 how to do an ad well, but I 360 00:13:27,289 --> 00:13:29,470 am putting my all into an episode. 361 00:13:29,929 --> 00:13:32,089 So maybe you give me a dollar a 362 00:13:32,089 --> 00:13:33,230 month on Patreon, 363 00:13:34,169 --> 00:13:35,769 you know, and most of that is coming 364 00:13:35,769 --> 00:13:38,475 to me instead of a very small percentage 365 00:13:38,694 --> 00:13:40,794 coming to me and then going to 366 00:13:41,174 --> 00:13:41,914 the advertiser. 367 00:13:42,294 --> 00:13:44,534 Yeah. And another another way of doing it, 368 00:13:44,694 --> 00:13:46,615 getting ads I don't know. This isn't really 369 00:13:46,615 --> 00:13:49,414 the topic of the episodes, but, you know, 370 00:13:49,414 --> 00:13:51,115 getting ads, you you do affiliates. 371 00:13:51,929 --> 00:13:54,169 You know, there's nothing wrong with you creating 372 00:13:54,169 --> 00:13:57,149 your own really great ad for an affiliate 373 00:13:57,370 --> 00:13:59,149 program that you're interested in. 374 00:13:59,769 --> 00:14:02,009 You know? That's another way of doing it 375 00:14:02,009 --> 00:14:04,570 without having to deal with, well, this this 376 00:14:04,570 --> 00:14:06,605 copy is not what I want and, you 377 00:14:06,605 --> 00:14:09,565 know, or some, you know, programmatic thing that 378 00:14:09,565 --> 00:14:11,264 may or may not fit your show. 379 00:14:12,044 --> 00:14:12,605 You know, that's 380 00:14:13,404 --> 00:14:15,644 who knows? I I just say, that's another 381 00:14:15,644 --> 00:14:17,245 way of doing it. Let's get back on 382 00:14:17,245 --> 00:14:19,084 track here. In 2025, 383 00:14:19,084 --> 00:14:20,464 it really hasn't been 384 00:14:20,789 --> 00:14:23,750 smooth for everyone. There's been some layoffs in 385 00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:25,209 the industry. Wondery, 386 00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:28,809 which was one of the biggest podcast studios, 387 00:14:29,429 --> 00:14:32,149 had a major restructuring with layoffs. They got 388 00:14:32,149 --> 00:14:33,209 rid of their CEO. 389 00:14:34,754 --> 00:14:37,714 They canceled a bunch of shows, and, yeah, 390 00:14:37,714 --> 00:14:39,254 it was it was ugly. 391 00:14:39,794 --> 00:14:41,495 And, you know We are not immune 392 00:14:43,075 --> 00:14:45,154 to layoffs in this economy. I don't think 393 00:14:45,154 --> 00:14:46,355 anyone is. But 394 00:14:46,834 --> 00:14:49,475 Right. No. Definitely took a hit earlier this 395 00:14:49,475 --> 00:14:51,529 year. Yep. And, you know, but, you know, 396 00:14:51,529 --> 00:14:54,250 some of those big studios, they had staffs 397 00:14:54,250 --> 00:14:55,309 that were unreal. 398 00:14:55,929 --> 00:14:58,009 You know, they put they put a show 399 00:14:58,009 --> 00:15:00,490 together. You know, one show might have a 400 00:15:00,490 --> 00:15:03,230 staff of 50 people or 25 people. 401 00:15:03,929 --> 00:15:04,429 And 402 00:15:04,884 --> 00:15:07,444 can that be sustained in in an economy 403 00:15:07,444 --> 00:15:08,184 like this? 404 00:15:09,365 --> 00:15:10,345 Obviously not. 405 00:15:10,725 --> 00:15:13,225 And, Amazon, which owns Wondery, 406 00:15:14,404 --> 00:15:16,485 finally decided, well, we need to, you know, 407 00:15:16,485 --> 00:15:18,164 we need to cut this off a bit. 408 00:15:18,164 --> 00:15:20,419 And, you know, they they're still existing, and 409 00:15:20,419 --> 00:15:22,659 they still do quality shows and all that, 410 00:15:22,659 --> 00:15:24,819 but, they're doing it with a 110 less 411 00:15:24,819 --> 00:15:25,319 people. 412 00:15:25,699 --> 00:15:27,639 Mhmm. That's that sucks 413 00:15:28,579 --> 00:15:31,139 for them. Yeah. And sucks for everybody, really, 414 00:15:31,139 --> 00:15:32,819 because that was a great studio. It is 415 00:15:32,819 --> 00:15:33,639 a great studio. 416 00:15:34,715 --> 00:15:38,075 But, anyway, one good news thing. For the 417 00:15:38,075 --> 00:15:41,674 first time ever, there's a Golden Globe Award 418 00:15:41,674 --> 00:15:42,975 for best podcast. 419 00:15:44,075 --> 00:15:45,134 So that's interesting. 420 00:15:46,794 --> 00:15:47,294 Yeah. 421 00:15:48,110 --> 00:15:50,029 I I don't know how I feel about 422 00:15:50,029 --> 00:15:50,269 the, 423 00:15:51,309 --> 00:15:52,049 the nominee. 424 00:15:52,909 --> 00:15:54,850 Oh, no. I have no idea. 425 00:15:55,389 --> 00:15:57,009 I am excited to see, 426 00:15:58,669 --> 00:16:00,769 this be added to the Golden Globes. 427 00:16:01,194 --> 00:16:02,954 I don't really it feels like it should 428 00:16:02,954 --> 00:16:03,454 be 429 00:16:05,194 --> 00:16:05,694 the 430 00:16:06,875 --> 00:16:09,355 the Emmys and not the Golden Globes. I'm 431 00:16:09,355 --> 00:16:12,815 not entirely sure. Well, Emmy's for more TV. 432 00:16:13,674 --> 00:16:16,590 Golden Globes is basically is all entertainment, I 433 00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:17,330 think, is 434 00:16:17,790 --> 00:16:19,550 why that happened. But maybe the Emmys will 435 00:16:19,550 --> 00:16:21,870 do it. You never know. Yeah. Yeah. The 436 00:16:21,870 --> 00:16:24,690 Golden Globes are are, film and TV. 437 00:16:24,990 --> 00:16:27,790 Yeah. Well, Netflix is adding podcast, so, you 438 00:16:27,790 --> 00:16:30,850 know, Netflix is, eligible for the Emmy Awards 439 00:16:31,455 --> 00:16:31,934 because they're That's true. 440 00:16:33,215 --> 00:16:35,615 TV. So maybe that'll happen. You know, one 441 00:16:35,615 --> 00:16:37,315 of the shows that they've picked up, 442 00:16:38,575 --> 00:16:40,495 you know, a little further down our list 443 00:16:40,495 --> 00:16:41,134 here, but, 444 00:16:41,774 --> 00:16:44,014 you know, they made some deals, and they're 445 00:16:44,014 --> 00:16:46,274 putting some video podcasts on 446 00:16:46,769 --> 00:16:49,029 Netflix as part of their content. And that's, 447 00:16:49,570 --> 00:16:51,889 you know, that might make it eligible for 448 00:16:51,889 --> 00:16:53,430 the TV type awards. 449 00:16:54,450 --> 00:16:55,750 So interesting. 450 00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:59,009 Well, the Webby's also added podcasts a couple 451 00:16:59,009 --> 00:17:01,009 years ago. I forget how long ago that 452 00:17:01,009 --> 00:17:03,325 was, but, you know, the Webby's used to 453 00:17:03,325 --> 00:17:04,625 just be for web pages. 454 00:17:05,005 --> 00:17:06,144 How boring is that? 455 00:17:07,805 --> 00:17:11,505 The Internet has vastly changed Yes. For sure. 456 00:17:11,644 --> 00:17:14,125 For the worse, for the better. Yep. I 457 00:17:14,125 --> 00:17:16,205 I changed my mind on that throughout the 458 00:17:16,205 --> 00:17:17,825 day every day. Yep. 459 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:19,839 Now when you go to a website smart 460 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,599 to do. Yeah. You go to a website 461 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:23,119 and a pop up gets in your face 462 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,460 before you can even look at the website, 463 00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:27,619 you're like, oh, okay. The web web sucks. 464 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,920 And then later on, you read something, oh, 465 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,779 that's really good. You know? 466 00:17:32,284 --> 00:17:33,184 I get it. 467 00:17:33,964 --> 00:17:34,784 Oh, yeah. 468 00:17:36,044 --> 00:17:38,865 What else we got going for 2025? 469 00:17:40,765 --> 00:17:43,644 What did they do? Spotify really is is 470 00:17:43,644 --> 00:17:46,065 just putting more money and effort into podcasting 471 00:17:46,204 --> 00:17:47,339 from what I can tell. 472 00:17:48,059 --> 00:17:49,679 They are do they added 473 00:17:49,980 --> 00:17:53,099 a podcast discovery feature Mhmm. So that, you 474 00:17:53,099 --> 00:17:55,819 know, shows can actually be found better within 475 00:17:55,819 --> 00:17:56,319 Spotify. 476 00:17:57,419 --> 00:17:59,740 So I don't listen to shows in Spotify. 477 00:17:59,740 --> 00:18:02,559 I listen to or I use Spotify for 478 00:18:03,224 --> 00:18:05,545 music and some audio books every once in 479 00:18:05,545 --> 00:18:07,884 a while, but I I mean, 480 00:18:08,505 --> 00:18:10,345 as someone who doesn't listen to podcasts on 481 00:18:10,345 --> 00:18:10,845 Spotify, 482 00:18:11,304 --> 00:18:12,285 I have noticed 483 00:18:12,664 --> 00:18:15,724 the podcasts. They've made it, you know, impossible 484 00:18:15,785 --> 00:18:16,765 to not see. 485 00:18:17,259 --> 00:18:18,779 Yep. I get those. And, you know, I 486 00:18:18,779 --> 00:18:20,940 actually just I have to say, I discovered 487 00:18:20,940 --> 00:18:22,079 a show that I like 488 00:18:22,779 --> 00:18:25,099 that way. And I'm not a boss you 489 00:18:25,099 --> 00:18:26,859 to say? It does. Same on you. Bad 490 00:18:26,859 --> 00:18:30,140 because I hate Spotify for podcasting, but, you 491 00:18:30,140 --> 00:18:31,605 know, and you guys know that. 492 00:18:32,404 --> 00:18:34,565 Yeah. But I found a show, and I'm 493 00:18:34,565 --> 00:18:36,724 like, oh, wow. Really? Cool. And and I 494 00:18:36,724 --> 00:18:37,224 went 495 00:18:37,525 --> 00:18:39,704 to my podcast app of choice 496 00:18:40,804 --> 00:18:43,684 and subscribed to it. I did not listen 497 00:18:43,684 --> 00:18:44,744 to it in Spotify. 498 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,599 That I have done that as well. I 499 00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:49,920 have noticed a show or, like, saw that, 500 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:50,500 you know, 501 00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:52,319 so and so was a guest on some 502 00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:53,680 episode, and I was like, oh, okay. I 503 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,480 gotta go listen to this Yep. In Apple 504 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,400 Podcast. And I go to I go to 505 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,819 Overcast. That's still my daily driver. 506 00:19:01,414 --> 00:19:03,595 But Yeah. I I do something similar 507 00:19:03,974 --> 00:19:06,454 because I don't use Spotify. I'm all in 508 00:19:06,454 --> 00:19:08,694 on YouTube right now. Mhmm. And so if 509 00:19:08,694 --> 00:19:11,335 I'm listening to YouTube music, they also have 510 00:19:11,335 --> 00:19:13,494 a podcast section in there. Mhmm. And I 511 00:19:13,494 --> 00:19:14,954 kinda do that same thing. 512 00:19:15,289 --> 00:19:17,369 They're they're more based off of what I've 513 00:19:17,369 --> 00:19:19,769 watched on YouTube than what I've listened to. 514 00:19:19,769 --> 00:19:20,589 Mhmm. But, 515 00:19:21,049 --> 00:19:24,970 yeah, my my actual podcast app, which is 516 00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:25,869 currently overcast, 517 00:19:27,142 --> 00:19:29,714 it's I've probably added 15 new podcasts that 518 00:19:29,714 --> 00:19:31,014 I have a hard time getting 519 00:19:32,034 --> 00:19:32,534 completed 520 00:19:32,914 --> 00:19:34,375 every single week or whatever. 521 00:19:35,315 --> 00:19:37,474 So Well, I have an unfair advantage in 522 00:19:37,474 --> 00:19:39,154 that way. I spend too much time on 523 00:19:39,154 --> 00:19:41,394 the tractor this time of year, so I 524 00:19:41,394 --> 00:19:42,375 listen to podcasts. 525 00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:44,970 So I actually ran out of podcasts the 526 00:19:44,970 --> 00:19:45,630 other day, 527 00:19:45,930 --> 00:19:48,029 which is Yeah. That's true. I have 528 00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:51,070 I have, you know, a driver too 529 00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:54,350 around the holidays that I'll probably get some 530 00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:55,549 get some episodes 531 00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:58,269 out of my queue on my phone. So 532 00:19:59,315 --> 00:20:01,894 Yep. So, Apple came out with their, 533 00:20:02,434 --> 00:20:02,934 top 534 00:20:03,634 --> 00:20:05,714 or top shows. I don't know what they 535 00:20:05,714 --> 00:20:08,615 call it. Top new shows, top charts. 536 00:20:09,474 --> 00:20:11,875 And Yeah. If I can find that. There 537 00:20:11,875 --> 00:20:12,535 it is. 538 00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:15,130 And, of course, the usual suspects show up 539 00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:15,870 in the list, 540 00:20:16,410 --> 00:20:19,610 the Joe Rogan, The Daily, Mel Robbins, Crime 541 00:20:19,610 --> 00:20:22,430 Junkie, Dateline. My wife is addicted to Dateline. 542 00:20:24,009 --> 00:20:26,090 Smartless. Hey. You know, I have never listened 543 00:20:26,090 --> 00:20:27,630 to that. I heard it's pretty good. 544 00:20:28,724 --> 00:20:30,105 Call Her Daddy. Guest. 545 00:20:30,484 --> 00:20:32,445 Yeah. It depends on the guest. I that's 546 00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:34,265 isn't that Jason Bateman? 547 00:20:35,204 --> 00:20:36,105 Jason Bateman. 548 00:20:36,484 --> 00:20:36,984 Yeah. 549 00:20:37,765 --> 00:20:41,099 Sean something and, Will Arnett. Yeah. Yeah. And 550 00:20:41,099 --> 00:20:43,440 Call Her Daddy, never listened to that one. 551 00:20:44,059 --> 00:20:45,980 This American Life, I used to listen to 552 00:20:45,980 --> 00:20:47,759 that one a lot, and I just haven't. 553 00:20:48,299 --> 00:20:50,880 And then Huberman's Lab was number nine 554 00:20:52,539 --> 00:20:54,559 and Ezra Klein Show? 555 00:20:55,099 --> 00:20:56,240 Never heard of it. 556 00:20:56,595 --> 00:20:59,154 Okay. And then, top new shows. Of course, 557 00:20:59,154 --> 00:21:01,954 Amy Poehler's got one called Good Hang. That's 558 00:21:01,954 --> 00:21:05,394 been pretty popular, actually. That yeah. She's kind 559 00:21:05,394 --> 00:21:06,835 of a knocking it out of the park. 560 00:21:06,835 --> 00:21:08,855 I mean, I am an Amy Poehler fan, 561 00:21:08,994 --> 00:21:11,359 but I've listened to a couple episodes, and 562 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,599 she's she's doing a good job of, like, 563 00:21:13,599 --> 00:21:15,599 actually being a host. She's not just a 564 00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:18,480 celebrity, like, talking to a you know? Yeah. 565 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,039 That that happens. That's good. I I remember 566 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:23,299 when podcast one used to be recruiting, 567 00:21:24,884 --> 00:21:25,365 you know, just they'd recruit any celebrity to 568 00:21:25,365 --> 00:21:26,804 do a podcast, and some of them were 569 00:21:26,804 --> 00:21:30,005 terrible at it. Yeah. And I, you know, 570 00:21:30,005 --> 00:21:31,944 I'm I'm a fan of Pawn Stars, 571 00:21:32,244 --> 00:21:34,984 you know, that TV show. And Rick Harrison, 572 00:21:35,044 --> 00:21:36,724 the guy that runs that show, they they 573 00:21:36,724 --> 00:21:38,244 did a podcast when he made it eight 574 00:21:38,244 --> 00:21:38,744 episodes. 575 00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:40,809 It was terrible. 576 00:21:41,670 --> 00:21:44,549 And now they're doing a podcast slash YouTube 577 00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:47,769 channel that's pretty cool called Pawn After Dark. 578 00:21:48,309 --> 00:21:49,769 So his format 579 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:52,250 that they were doing for that audio show 580 00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:53,049 was terrible. 581 00:21:53,494 --> 00:21:55,414 But now that he's doing it on video 582 00:21:55,414 --> 00:21:57,414 and he's got a cohost and it's really 583 00:21:57,414 --> 00:21:57,914 cool, 584 00:21:58,295 --> 00:22:00,775 you know, that's, you know, that now he's 585 00:22:00,775 --> 00:22:03,275 into podcasting and it actually works 586 00:22:04,055 --> 00:22:06,215 where, you know, not always. But, yeah, here 587 00:22:06,375 --> 00:22:08,295 we'll have the link to this whole list. 588 00:22:08,295 --> 00:22:11,250 There's, you know, top episodes, most shared shows, 589 00:22:11,869 --> 00:22:13,009 most shared episodes, 590 00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:15,710 most followed shows, and so on and so 591 00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:17,950 on. We'll have links in the show notes 592 00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:20,369 to Apple's top chart list. 593 00:22:21,805 --> 00:22:24,045 Yeah. To be honest, the top charts or 594 00:22:24,045 --> 00:22:25,904 the top shows, like, the top 10 595 00:22:26,205 --> 00:22:27,664 of 2025, 596 00:22:28,045 --> 00:22:29,484 a lot of these have already been in 597 00:22:29,484 --> 00:22:30,144 this list. 598 00:22:30,924 --> 00:22:31,904 Year after year. 599 00:22:32,285 --> 00:22:33,424 Yeah. I 600 00:22:35,299 --> 00:22:35,799 people. 601 00:22:36,339 --> 00:22:39,220 Yep. There are so many podcasts out there. 602 00:22:39,220 --> 00:22:41,220 You could listen to a lot more than 603 00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:42,359 just this. Stop. 604 00:22:42,660 --> 00:22:44,259 Well, yeah. Well, you know, the thing is 605 00:22:44,259 --> 00:22:46,279 is those are like the gateway drugs. 606 00:22:46,660 --> 00:22:49,585 Okay. Somebody says, oh, I really like this 607 00:22:49,585 --> 00:22:50,085 show, 608 00:22:50,784 --> 00:22:52,784 and I'm gonna listen to the podcast. Like, 609 00:22:52,784 --> 00:22:54,544 my wife, for instance, likes that, 610 00:22:55,024 --> 00:22:57,585 Dateline show. She likes liked it on TV. 611 00:22:57,585 --> 00:22:59,764 She'll you know, she likes it on podcast. 612 00:23:00,065 --> 00:23:03,444 But then she discovers other true crime podcasts. 613 00:23:03,779 --> 00:23:05,700 And now when we get in the car, 614 00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:08,019 she's wanting to listen to podcasts, not to 615 00:23:08,019 --> 00:23:10,740 radio, which is awesome. So we're we're we're 616 00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:11,240 we're 617 00:23:11,859 --> 00:23:14,980 in onboarding new podcast listeners with these big 618 00:23:14,980 --> 00:23:15,480 shows. 619 00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:17,960 So that that's actually really good. 620 00:23:19,105 --> 00:23:20,704 It's a good way to think about that. 621 00:23:20,704 --> 00:23:22,304 You know? And and same thing with, you 622 00:23:22,304 --> 00:23:23,044 know, all 623 00:23:23,345 --> 00:23:25,345 these minor apps, I call them, you know, 624 00:23:25,345 --> 00:23:26,404 as far as distribution. 625 00:23:27,024 --> 00:23:28,964 Yeah. You know? Get in Spotify. 626 00:23:29,345 --> 00:23:31,904 Even if you don't listen to Spotify as, 627 00:23:31,904 --> 00:23:32,484 you know, 628 00:23:32,865 --> 00:23:33,365 yourself, 629 00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:35,919 people will find you there. Some will listen 630 00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:38,480 there, and some will Mhmm. Find you and 631 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,819 go elsewhere. Same thing with, you know, YouTube 632 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,980 music, with all the places. 633 00:23:43,679 --> 00:23:45,679 Somebody might find you there and then go 634 00:23:45,679 --> 00:23:48,159 to their regular podcast app and and, 635 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,884 sign up and listen to your show or 636 00:23:50,884 --> 00:23:52,585 or just go over there and listen, whatever. 637 00:23:54,244 --> 00:23:55,224 So but, 638 00:23:55,924 --> 00:23:58,164 you know what all this means for us 639 00:23:58,164 --> 00:24:01,224 indie creators? I consider myself one. 640 00:24:02,085 --> 00:24:02,984 You know, visibility 641 00:24:03,365 --> 00:24:04,505 is more important 642 00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:07,929 than it used to be, you know, and, 643 00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:08,889 again, another 644 00:24:09,589 --> 00:24:10,730 plus for video. 645 00:24:11,109 --> 00:24:13,109 You know, you get on YouTube, you know, 646 00:24:13,109 --> 00:24:15,529 even if it's just a short clip or, 647 00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:17,130 you know, 648 00:24:17,509 --> 00:24:19,609 a one off video once in a while, 649 00:24:19,954 --> 00:24:21,734 that'll help people discover you. 650 00:24:23,555 --> 00:24:25,954 But yeah. And, I mean, as for the 651 00:24:25,954 --> 00:24:26,454 discoverability 652 00:24:26,755 --> 00:24:28,934 and, like, the video portion of it, 653 00:24:29,954 --> 00:24:30,775 I mean, there's 654 00:24:31,234 --> 00:24:33,174 there's a popular podcast that 655 00:24:34,029 --> 00:24:36,529 the video component of it shows up on 656 00:24:36,670 --> 00:24:39,410 my TikTok algorithm all the time. Yeah. 657 00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:41,089 So I get that. 658 00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:43,390 I don't actually listen to the show because 659 00:24:43,390 --> 00:24:44,750 it's way too long, and I just don't 660 00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:45,250 care. 661 00:24:46,109 --> 00:24:47,490 Do you like the However 662 00:24:48,375 --> 00:24:50,695 however, they did get my money when they 663 00:24:50,695 --> 00:24:52,855 went on tour and came to Columbus. Like, 664 00:24:52,855 --> 00:24:54,454 I went to that a couple months ago, 665 00:24:54,454 --> 00:24:56,315 so they still got my money somehow. 666 00:24:56,695 --> 00:24:59,255 Yeah. But, you know, even the you know, 667 00:24:59,255 --> 00:24:59,914 like shorts 668 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,579 or clips or TikToks or, 669 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,380 you know, all the different short video formats, 670 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,079 I I follow a lot of people that 671 00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:10,079 way just for the shorts. And, you know, 672 00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:11,359 and I won't you know, I'm not gonna 673 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,140 listen to their hour and a half show, 674 00:25:13,355 --> 00:25:15,375 but I'll listen to their thirty to thirty 675 00:25:15,914 --> 00:25:18,634 second to two minute little shorts here and 676 00:25:18,634 --> 00:25:20,315 there, and I and I follow them quite 677 00:25:20,315 --> 00:25:21,615 closely that way. But, 678 00:25:21,914 --> 00:25:22,494 you know, 679 00:25:23,195 --> 00:25:24,955 I guess the what we're trying to say 680 00:25:24,955 --> 00:25:27,674 for for, you know, indie podcasters is, you 681 00:25:27,674 --> 00:25:28,654 know, be flexible. 682 00:25:29,890 --> 00:25:30,470 You know, 683 00:25:30,930 --> 00:25:32,390 you know, test out stuff. 684 00:25:33,730 --> 00:25:35,170 You know, Dave and I talked about that 685 00:25:35,170 --> 00:25:37,089 last week, you know, testing out formats. Well, 686 00:25:37,089 --> 00:25:38,769 you could also test out, you know, adding 687 00:25:38,769 --> 00:25:40,869 video, adding shorts, adding clips, 688 00:25:41,775 --> 00:25:42,494 You know? Or 689 00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:45,615 It's it's not hard to, like, literally just 690 00:25:45,615 --> 00:25:46,755 buy, like, a little 691 00:25:47,455 --> 00:25:50,035 stand for your phone and just record yourself 692 00:25:50,894 --> 00:25:52,515 recording your episode 693 00:25:52,894 --> 00:25:54,115 and then clip that 694 00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:56,710 and throw that on social because there are 695 00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:58,630 a lot of people out there that they 696 00:25:58,630 --> 00:26:00,809 they could see that thirty second clip 697 00:26:01,190 --> 00:26:03,029 and go, oh, this is interesting. I wanna 698 00:26:03,029 --> 00:26:05,029 know more. Then they follow you. They start 699 00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:05,529 listening. 700 00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:08,490 It's it's something I've been talking about 701 00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:12,115 with podcasters that I'm working with, whether it's, 702 00:26:12,115 --> 00:26:14,534 you know, answering tickets or on the phones 703 00:26:14,595 --> 00:26:17,014 or just podcasters actually know 704 00:26:17,315 --> 00:26:19,714 in my life. I'm like, mhmm. This might 705 00:26:19,714 --> 00:26:22,595 be something worth doing, and it's it's low 706 00:26:22,595 --> 00:26:25,690 effort, so play around with it. Yep. For 707 00:26:25,690 --> 00:26:26,190 sure. 708 00:26:27,210 --> 00:26:28,509 And, you 709 00:26:28,889 --> 00:26:30,269 know, talking about monetization, 710 00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:31,309 you know, 711 00:26:32,089 --> 00:26:34,029 ads are not the only way to monetize 712 00:26:34,089 --> 00:26:34,750 a show. 713 00:26:35,130 --> 00:26:38,009 So Nope. Be, you know, be flexible in 714 00:26:38,009 --> 00:26:39,544 that. You know, you could do, 715 00:26:40,005 --> 00:26:42,644 like, we've mentioned before, you know, Patreon, buy 716 00:26:42,644 --> 00:26:43,544 me a coffee, 717 00:26:43,924 --> 00:26:46,424 PayPal donate links, bag, whatever, 718 00:26:46,884 --> 00:26:48,424 and, you know, you can, 719 00:26:48,884 --> 00:26:50,825 you know, make a little money that way. 720 00:26:51,044 --> 00:26:53,365 It's not just all about ads. You know, 721 00:26:53,365 --> 00:26:54,829 there there are ads 722 00:26:55,369 --> 00:26:56,429 available, but 723 00:26:56,809 --> 00:26:58,650 that might not be right for your show 724 00:26:58,650 --> 00:26:59,630 or your audience. 725 00:27:00,329 --> 00:27:01,230 I do understand 726 00:27:01,849 --> 00:27:03,769 people wanting to do video because they know 727 00:27:03,769 --> 00:27:05,769 they could make money off of YouTube and 728 00:27:05,769 --> 00:27:06,829 TikTok and Instagram. 729 00:27:07,714 --> 00:27:11,075 If they, get enough audience. That's that's the 730 00:27:11,075 --> 00:27:13,894 thing. The threshold for making money on YouTube 731 00:27:13,955 --> 00:27:15,095 is rather high. 732 00:27:15,955 --> 00:27:18,934 Yes. And I believe it's 10,000 followers on 733 00:27:19,234 --> 00:27:20,355 TikTok before you, 734 00:27:21,049 --> 00:27:23,210 before you make anything. And, also, I think 735 00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:23,950 only in 736 00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:24,990 The US 737 00:27:25,609 --> 00:27:27,929 or I don't know. That gets complicated. I 738 00:27:27,929 --> 00:27:30,829 know Canada. It's that way. Yeah. That's all, 739 00:27:31,210 --> 00:27:33,609 all changed here lately too because the ownership 740 00:27:33,609 --> 00:27:36,109 of TikTok has kinda been thrown around. 741 00:27:36,704 --> 00:27:40,325 Correct. As of yesterday, the eighteenth, they said 742 00:27:40,704 --> 00:27:41,605 they're gonna sell 743 00:27:42,304 --> 00:27:42,964 to some 744 00:27:43,345 --> 00:27:45,924 US investors, so we'll see how that goes. 745 00:27:46,065 --> 00:27:48,644 Yep. So Where that happens? Interesting to watch. 746 00:27:48,865 --> 00:27:50,484 That's something to watch next year. 747 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,279 Yeah. Yeah. That was also the 2025 748 00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:56,120 in January. That was a big decision. So 749 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:57,580 Sure. Yeah. Who knows? 750 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,200 Yep. But be flexible because you never know 751 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,059 what's gonna happen to these big companies, 752 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,619 and they might change things on a dime. 753 00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:05,740 And and 754 00:28:06,234 --> 00:28:07,914 your money could be you know, the way 755 00:28:07,914 --> 00:28:09,774 that you're getting money could just be gone. 756 00:28:09,835 --> 00:28:11,835 Yeah. Well, I've I've run into a couple 757 00:28:11,835 --> 00:28:12,414 of YouTubers 758 00:28:12,714 --> 00:28:15,615 that, have come to us to start podcasting, 759 00:28:16,794 --> 00:28:18,575 and they got demonetized 760 00:28:19,159 --> 00:28:22,759 by YouTube for whatever reason, and their entire 761 00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:23,819 income went poof. 762 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,619 Yeah. And if you build it yourself, 763 00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:28,059 own it yourself, 764 00:28:28,679 --> 00:28:29,500 and diversify 765 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,519 how you're making money on it, maybe one 766 00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:33,500 will fall out, 767 00:28:33,934 --> 00:28:36,275 but you'll have others to back it up. 768 00:28:36,974 --> 00:28:39,214 So that's a good thing. And, of course, 769 00:28:39,214 --> 00:28:41,474 as we always say, quality and consistency 770 00:28:42,015 --> 00:28:43,474 are still big winners. 771 00:28:44,015 --> 00:28:45,054 You know, just, 772 00:28:45,535 --> 00:28:47,855 you know, be consistent, do what you're good 773 00:28:47,855 --> 00:28:48,355 at, 774 00:28:49,109 --> 00:28:50,250 and, you know, offer 775 00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:51,529 good content, 776 00:28:52,309 --> 00:28:55,529 decent audio or video or whatever you're, into. 777 00:28:56,150 --> 00:28:57,990 And, you know, that that will win the 778 00:28:57,990 --> 00:29:00,009 day. You know? Just keep plugging away. 779 00:29:00,549 --> 00:29:02,630 Yeah. Because you only get better as you 780 00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:04,755 keep doing something. I I think I say 781 00:29:04,755 --> 00:29:05,974 it to 782 00:29:06,275 --> 00:29:08,515 Mike and Mackenzie after we record an episode. 783 00:29:08,515 --> 00:29:10,355 I was like, man, I am so rusty. 784 00:29:10,355 --> 00:29:13,255 I haven't actually made a podcast regularly 785 00:29:13,875 --> 00:29:14,615 in ages. 786 00:29:14,994 --> 00:29:15,394 So 787 00:29:15,875 --> 00:29:18,295 Yeah. You know threw you another wolf. 788 00:29:18,914 --> 00:29:19,980 Yeah. I know. Right? 789 00:29:20,619 --> 00:29:22,220 But, yeah, like, you just get better the 790 00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:23,980 more you do it. So, like, figure out 791 00:29:23,980 --> 00:29:25,919 a schedule that works for you and 792 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:30,319 tweak things as you go. Like, it you're 793 00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:33,835 I think sometimes and this is a little 794 00:29:33,835 --> 00:29:35,755 rant of mine. But sometimes I think we 795 00:29:35,755 --> 00:29:38,714 look at these highly produced podcasts, like the 796 00:29:38,714 --> 00:29:40,075 ones that are sitting at the top of 797 00:29:40,075 --> 00:29:41,934 the Apple charts right now or whatever, 798 00:29:42,315 --> 00:29:44,734 and we're like, that's what we wanna do. 799 00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:46,680 And it's like, yes. But how many people 800 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,680 are working on that show and engineering the 801 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,720 sound or video or whatever? And just at 802 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,359 some point, you may get there. Just keep 803 00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:54,859 going. 804 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,160 Yeah. And, you know, there's no reason an 805 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,085 indie can't do a lot of that themselves, 806 00:29:59,085 --> 00:30:01,105 but how much time do you wanna spend? 807 00:30:01,644 --> 00:30:03,724 That's that's part of the problem, you know, 808 00:30:03,724 --> 00:30:05,565 with with people who get a regular day 809 00:30:05,565 --> 00:30:07,005 job and they, you know, they got all 810 00:30:07,005 --> 00:30:08,684 all the other things going on in life. 811 00:30:08,684 --> 00:30:10,525 They don't have time to spend four hours 812 00:30:10,525 --> 00:30:12,304 editing a podcast episode. 813 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,240 Yeah. And It can be a grind for 814 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,720 sure. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm I've 815 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,799 I've been editing for the last couple of 816 00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:20,299 weeks, 817 00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:22,299 for this show, 818 00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:25,160 you know, because Kate's, taking a much deserved 819 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:25,660 vacation. 820 00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:27,019 And, 821 00:30:27,724 --> 00:30:29,884 you know, I I'm rusty at it, I'll 822 00:30:29,884 --> 00:30:30,545 tell you. 823 00:30:31,644 --> 00:30:33,404 But, you know, I got one cranked out 824 00:30:33,404 --> 00:30:35,105 today, so we're good. 825 00:30:35,484 --> 00:30:37,505 It's definitely a skill you have to exercise. 826 00:30:37,805 --> 00:30:40,545 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of, 827 00:30:40,990 --> 00:30:42,829 the go ahead. No. I was just gonna 828 00:30:42,829 --> 00:30:44,909 say I you know, on my personal shows, 829 00:30:44,909 --> 00:30:47,390 it's very rare that I edit anything. It's 830 00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:49,009 basically clip the ends, 831 00:30:49,710 --> 00:30:50,450 be done. 832 00:30:51,390 --> 00:30:54,450 Yeah. And speaking of taking forever to edit, 833 00:30:56,134 --> 00:30:58,934 we are we're seeing, you know, a lot 834 00:30:58,934 --> 00:30:59,595 of recognition 835 00:30:59,974 --> 00:31:00,474 for 836 00:31:01,014 --> 00:31:02,154 long form storytellers. 837 00:31:03,414 --> 00:31:05,595 And this is exciting to me being a, 838 00:31:06,294 --> 00:31:08,855 you know, D and D slash tabletop role 839 00:31:08,855 --> 00:31:09,355 playing 840 00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:11,119 podcaster myself. 841 00:31:12,380 --> 00:31:13,900 You know, we talked about the award shows 842 00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:14,640 at the beginning 843 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:16,720 toward the beginning of the episode. 844 00:31:17,740 --> 00:31:19,359 And I think it's cool to see 845 00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:22,320 those kind of shows get more 846 00:31:22,779 --> 00:31:23,279 recognition. 847 00:31:24,825 --> 00:31:26,744 There are a couple shows in my mind 848 00:31:26,744 --> 00:31:28,184 that I'm like, I can't wait to see 849 00:31:28,184 --> 00:31:31,144 those shows hit the top charts because they're 850 00:31:31,144 --> 00:31:32,984 so good. Whether you like D and D 851 00:31:32,984 --> 00:31:34,684 or not, just the storytelling 852 00:31:35,304 --> 00:31:35,804 is 853 00:31:36,265 --> 00:31:37,404 really, really cool. 854 00:31:40,090 --> 00:31:41,150 Oh, very good. 855 00:31:41,610 --> 00:31:44,430 I got a a some personal stuff here 856 00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:46,590 that happened in 2025. 857 00:31:47,369 --> 00:31:49,529 As as, of course, I'm sure you know, 858 00:31:49,529 --> 00:31:51,549 we lost our founder, CEO, 859 00:31:51,850 --> 00:31:54,410 good friend, and a cohost on this show, 860 00:31:54,410 --> 00:31:57,085 Todd Cochran, this year, and it was a 861 00:31:57,085 --> 00:31:57,585 significant 862 00:31:58,605 --> 00:32:00,625 setback for us here at Blueberry 863 00:32:01,484 --> 00:32:03,984 and for the whole podcasting industry, frankly. 864 00:32:04,845 --> 00:32:06,605 And the good news is we have a 865 00:32:06,605 --> 00:32:08,545 very deep team here. We're, 866 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,759 you know, we're pressing on with Todd's vision 867 00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:13,220 and some of our own, 868 00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:14,339 and, 869 00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:17,200 you know, just wanted to acknowledge that for 870 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,880 this last show of the year. You know, 871 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,259 Blueberry's here to stay, 872 00:32:21,055 --> 00:32:24,015 and our commitment to podcast creators and the 873 00:32:24,015 --> 00:32:25,474 open nature of podcasting 874 00:32:26,015 --> 00:32:28,434 is still here and still intact. 875 00:32:29,055 --> 00:32:29,375 So, 876 00:32:30,095 --> 00:32:32,434 we look forward to 2026. 877 00:32:33,929 --> 00:32:36,730 And, of course, 2025 has shown podcasting is 878 00:32:36,730 --> 00:32:38,990 still mostly audio. That's my opinion. 879 00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:41,549 Video is getting more popular 880 00:32:41,929 --> 00:32:42,909 with some audience. 881 00:32:43,529 --> 00:32:45,470 Podcasting nowadays is about flexibility, 882 00:32:45,849 --> 00:32:49,149 formats, and adapting to what listeners actually want. 883 00:32:49,184 --> 00:32:50,865 And get to know your listeners. That's, I 884 00:32:50,865 --> 00:32:53,125 guess, the key takeaway, I would say. 885 00:32:54,705 --> 00:32:55,845 And we're seeing platforms 886 00:32:56,305 --> 00:32:58,325 change and evolve, so 887 00:32:58,945 --> 00:33:01,025 every single one of us creators has to 888 00:33:01,025 --> 00:33:01,924 stay nimble. 889 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,160 But at the end of the day, remember 890 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,420 that good content is still gonna win out, 891 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,119 and, it doesn't matter if you're doing audio 892 00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:09,859 or video. 893 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,380 Okay. Before we get out of here, 894 00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:14,960 I have to put you guys on the 895 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,434 spot. Okay. I don't know. What was your 896 00:33:17,434 --> 00:33:19,375 favorite show of 2025? 897 00:33:21,515 --> 00:33:22,894 My favorite show. 898 00:33:25,195 --> 00:33:28,335 Probably something you've never heard of, but, Midlife 899 00:33:28,474 --> 00:33:29,454 Pilot Podcast. 900 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,900 That's the one that's like an indie show? 901 00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:35,920 Yeah. I, I found them on Spotify and 902 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,960 then promptly went to Overcast and subscribed, and, 903 00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:40,660 so far, I'm loving the show. 904 00:33:42,174 --> 00:33:44,575 Yeah. I think my favorite show from this 905 00:33:44,575 --> 00:33:45,075 year, 906 00:33:46,095 --> 00:33:48,755 is called Worlds Beyond Number. It is 907 00:33:50,494 --> 00:33:51,634 Dungeons and Dragons 908 00:33:52,414 --> 00:33:54,355 tabletop role playing game podcast. 909 00:33:55,295 --> 00:33:56,515 Just great, 910 00:33:56,970 --> 00:33:58,109 great voice acting 911 00:33:58,569 --> 00:33:59,069 and 912 00:33:59,450 --> 00:33:59,950 imagination 913 00:34:00,329 --> 00:34:01,470 happening on that show. 914 00:34:03,130 --> 00:34:04,669 Yeah. I like it a lot. 915 00:34:04,970 --> 00:34:05,470 Nice. 916 00:34:06,169 --> 00:34:07,390 So what was yours? Mine 917 00:34:07,929 --> 00:34:08,909 yeah. Mine, 918 00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:11,949 has been the same for a couple years, 919 00:34:12,010 --> 00:34:13,414 is Song Exploder. 920 00:34:14,434 --> 00:34:15,574 It's just they 921 00:34:16,594 --> 00:34:17,494 they have 922 00:34:17,795 --> 00:34:20,994 the artist that, you know, who sings the 923 00:34:20,994 --> 00:34:21,494 song, 924 00:34:22,114 --> 00:34:24,934 come on to the episode and go through 925 00:34:25,155 --> 00:34:27,400 how it was made and why they chose 926 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,559 this and, you know, talking about how it 927 00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:31,880 was produced and who wrote it, if they 928 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,880 wrote it, all that type of stuff. 929 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,480 So that one is hard to top for 930 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,820 me. Yeah. That's a solid show. 931 00:34:40,255 --> 00:34:42,414 Yeah. It's been around for I don't know 932 00:34:42,414 --> 00:34:44,094 how long, but I've been listening to it 933 00:34:44,094 --> 00:34:46,414 for a very long time. Almost ten years, 934 00:34:46,414 --> 00:34:49,695 I think. Yeah. It it's definitely close to 935 00:34:49,695 --> 00:34:51,695 that. They've I'll have to go check that 936 00:34:51,695 --> 00:34:52,195 out. 937 00:34:52,579 --> 00:34:55,400 They've had some different hosts over the years, 938 00:34:56,340 --> 00:34:57,880 but it is just, like, 939 00:34:58,260 --> 00:35:00,179 quality episodes, and then they play the song 940 00:35:00,179 --> 00:35:01,239 at the end. So 941 00:35:01,780 --> 00:35:03,539 I would love to listen to, you know, 942 00:35:03,539 --> 00:35:05,159 maybe I'll try and find more 943 00:35:06,155 --> 00:35:09,275 independent shows that do somewhat around the same 944 00:35:09,275 --> 00:35:10,715 thing, but that one would be hard to 945 00:35:10,715 --> 00:35:13,054 do independent because, one, they have the actual 946 00:35:13,514 --> 00:35:14,014 artist, 947 00:35:14,394 --> 00:35:16,255 and, two, they have to pay for 948 00:35:16,875 --> 00:35:19,275 License. To play the song every single episode. 949 00:35:19,275 --> 00:35:20,335 Yeah. So it's 950 00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:23,099 not cheap to do that one, I would 951 00:35:23,099 --> 00:35:23,599 assume. 952 00:35:25,339 --> 00:35:25,839 Overall, 953 00:35:26,859 --> 00:35:29,119 this is the perfect time to experiment 954 00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:32,940 experiment for indie creators that goes for any 955 00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:34,859 medium right now. I think everyone is just 956 00:35:34,859 --> 00:35:36,265 kind of becoming 957 00:35:36,644 --> 00:35:37,465 more open, 958 00:35:38,324 --> 00:35:39,785 and likely to watch 959 00:35:40,565 --> 00:35:41,065 local 960 00:35:41,525 --> 00:35:42,824 indie content, 961 00:35:43,605 --> 00:35:45,224 as opposed to from these 962 00:35:46,085 --> 00:35:48,425 big networks and corporations and everything. 963 00:35:49,285 --> 00:35:49,785 So 964 00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:53,329 this is just a a good 2025 965 00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:53,829 recap. 966 00:35:54,369 --> 00:35:57,170 Yeah. So I guess I'll I'll, wrap it 967 00:35:57,170 --> 00:35:59,010 up here. Happy New Year. We'll see you 968 00:35:59,010 --> 00:36:00,710 in 2026. 969 00:36:03,010 --> 00:36:05,054 Thanks for joining us. Let's meet up next 970 00:36:05,054 --> 00:36:07,234 week. And in the meantime, for more information, 971 00:36:07,454 --> 00:36:10,080 to subscribe, share, or follow, check out the 972 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,740 show notes at podcastinsider.com. 973 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,720 To check out our latest suite of services 974 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:16,560 and how Blueberry can help you leverage your 975 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,400 podcast, visit blueberry.com. 976 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,340 That's Blueberry without the e's.