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So,

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with that somber

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beginning to this episode

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of the new media show,

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is really a remembrance

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of our longtime friend, Todd Cochran,

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who,

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has been really the lead of the show,

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this this new media show and the lead

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of his company,

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Blueberry. And in a lot of ways, you

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know, along with Adam have been

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a significant

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leaders in the podcast

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medium and the phenomenon that has happened over

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many, many years, and I've been lucky enough

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to be

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a companion of his over that long

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twenty year plus journey here. And,

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and it's not a real happy time.

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I'm I've been very

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overwhelmed by

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the by the response

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of

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the community overall

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and

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all of the nice things that people have

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had to say about Todd.

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And I've actually you know, it's been very,

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very

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touching to me.

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You know, I didn't really realize how close

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I had gotten to to Todd, really. And

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I guess if you

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you know, men don't typically do that quite

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as much,

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I I think is the conventional thinking. But,

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but I wanted to pull together this

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remembrance,

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last episode of the of the new media

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show. I haven't a 100% decided if I

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will keep the show alive or not, but,

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my thinking is at this point, at least

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a a break here of sorts to to

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remember Todd. And I'm lucky enough to have

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a couple of great or three great,

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people that were willing to come on the

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show and help me do this last show.

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It is not the easiest thing, you know,

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for me to do,

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as,

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Rob Walsh,

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from Lipson, who I know has been a

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very long time friend of Todd's. And

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and he and I have,

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you know, Rob, I you know, the two

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Robs and and Todd have spent a lot

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of time together.

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And we've done a lot of events together,

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and we've done a lot of things together.

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And I know

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Adam Curry,

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who's also able to to join us here.

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You know,

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really, I think the core reason that Todd

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actually

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got involved in podcasting was was because of

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you, Adam, and

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your daily source code, that was the thing

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that, you know, opened his eyes to

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what was possible with podcasting.

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And so I I I thought it was

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very

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poignant

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to have you here

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on this episode too because, you know, it's

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like a full circle moment.

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And then mister Mike Dell,

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who has been at Todd's side for many,

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many years,

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in in helping him and being a friend

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of his

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since your very early days of podcasting and

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helped him, helped Todd really build the the

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platform

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that Blueberry is today, and and I appreciate

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him being here as well. You know, I've

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known all three of these guys

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the whole time that this podcasting medium has

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existed, and and we've all been,

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good friends, and we've talked about,

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podcasting a lot.

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So I wanted to start just with Rob

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here. And, you

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know, if you could

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share some thoughts that you have on

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on Todd. And,

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you know,

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what are the big important takeaways that you

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have,

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as you look at Todd's life and

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Todd's overall,

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you know, significance in the podcasting space?

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I'm fortunate enough to have known Todd twenty

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plus years.

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So excuse me if I lose my voice

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here a little bit.

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I interviewed him. He was one of the

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first 20 plus people I interviewed on podcast

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wrong one back in March 2005.

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I asked him at that time what was

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the first podcast he listened to. And Adam,

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it was the daily source code, and it

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was the one he was at that time,

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and it was listened to still.

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And then,

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you know, just take a little history.

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Went to Gnomedex

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that year.

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Rob, that's where I met you. Yep.

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John Wall and Todd and me,

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all four of us went out to dinner.

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I remember, Todd coined us the FNGs

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because we were we were there at Gnomedex

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in the blog world, and we were just

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podcasters. We did not we weren't bloggers. And,

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and, you know, Adam, you were there at

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that event, and I was well, you gave

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us a little hint that Apple was about

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to drop some news.

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But this was all pre Apple supporting podcasting.

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And,

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you know,

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when I did that interview with Todd,

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not all of it made it up in

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the air, and I just remastered it. But,

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parts that I cut out were talking about

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he didn't want to have the stuff about

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the navy because he was still full time

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in the navy when he started

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everything that he did in podcasting, Blueberry and

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Robles.

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He was finishing up his his Navy career,

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and, you know, I don't know how he

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had any time to sleep with everything he

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was doing.

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And and then, you know, he put that

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energy

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into podcasting full time, and,

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eventually, it it led to the Association of

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Downloadable Media, if anyone remembers that.

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Yeah. We we tried to get

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metrics worked out, and,

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and then eventually that that led into the

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IAB. And, we were on all those IAB

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calls, and me and Todd were always backchanneling,

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cracking jokes about something someone said that was

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off the wall, you know, not quite accurate

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or,

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things like that.

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But, you know, he really, really, really cared,

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like no one else about the indie podcasters.

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And I was lucky enough to, you know,

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be at the events that you mentioned,

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Podcast New Media Expo,

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Blogworld,

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obviously, Podcast Movement. We were both of us

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were the

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original,

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funders for that,

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when it was a GoFundMe kinda thing.

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We did, Podfest. We've done NAB,

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and many, many other events,

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some that were not, you know, even close

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to podcast specific, but we went,

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he would look where I was presenting or

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exhibiting, and I would look where he was

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exhibiting, and we would

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wind up at the same events.

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And, you know, we got to spend many

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a nights talking about podcasting. As you know,

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Rob, all three of us, we till two,

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three in the morning,

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talking about podcasting.

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And my wife would be, why are you

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out so late? I'm like, well, Rob and

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Todd again.

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Yeah. Yeah. It happened quite often. Yeah. Yeah.

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But,

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you know,

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one of the things, you know, he he

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worked hard too was about fraud

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and keeping fraud out of the space. And

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and

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if he saw a show that was doing

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that moved over to us, he'd give me

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a heads up and vice versa.

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And, you know, he he really cared about

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the integrity of the space.

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And

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can't say how much I'm gonna miss him.

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Yeah. Incredible amount.

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Yeah. It's

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been rough.

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Yeah.

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So, Mike,

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I want you to share some thoughts

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on your experience with Todd.

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Oh, yeah.

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You know, I I tell this joke, oh,

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it's not really a joke, but it sounds

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like it should be. But,

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I was with father Roderick and trucker Tom,

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and we were walking to the Lipson party

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that happened to get get shut down, whatever

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happened there. So I thought, oh, let's go

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check out this blueberry party. Walk in there

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and here's this

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skinny at the time, clean-cut Navy guy.

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And,

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he hands me a beer and says, welcome

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to blueberry. And we hung out and I've

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been kinda

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a hanger on for the team for a

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while and then,

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got hired

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and the rest is history. It's been, been

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a wild ride. I'll tell you.

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And, yeah, there's

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a lot of,

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lot of things that, I'm gonna miss.

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Rob, you were talking about the back channel

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on meetings. We we had that all the

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time.

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It was usually full full of some colorful

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language and,

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and whatnot, but,

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both internal meetings and external meetings and all

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that,

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you know, just,

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yeah. It's, just not going to be the

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same.

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No, for sure.

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So, Adam, do you have any thoughts

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on Todd?

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Yeah.

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Thanks for putting this together, Rob. Really appreciate

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that. That's very, very nice. And and it's

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it's good for everyone to heal. I mean,

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I'm 61,

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and a lot of people I know have

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died in the past ten years, certainly from

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my my old career in the music business.

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Those people never last long.

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But, man, when you sent me the email

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a couple days ago, that I was really

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in shock.

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And,

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because

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there's people you just

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that are just there, always there, always the

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same, always fun. I mourned I mourned with

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Dave Jones who sends his regards. Of course,

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Dave and I have been doing the podcast

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index and podcasting two point o for the

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past five years.

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And Todd has always been a big part

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of that, pushing every single initiative forward.

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And,

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this was a weird one. I mean, really

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for me, it's like, woah, this hit me

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harder than anybody else. And I reflect that

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and I say, why is it

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because Todd was just always there. Todd was

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always Todd. He could always count on I

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mean, if I just think all the way

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back, he was the most unlikely guy to

278
00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:19,600
be in podcasting. He had a crazy voice.

279
00:10:19,820 --> 00:10:20,620
You know? It was like

280
00:10:21,259 --> 00:10:23,100
that was kind of the beauty of of

281
00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:25,664
what podcasting as it started out is just

282
00:10:25,985 --> 00:10:28,464
raw and said what he what he wanted

283
00:10:28,464 --> 00:10:29,125
to say.

284
00:10:29,904 --> 00:10:30,804
To this day,

285
00:10:32,144 --> 00:10:33,985
even just a few weeks ago, I'd always

286
00:10:33,985 --> 00:10:37,105
smile walking the dog, hearing Todd talk about

287
00:10:37,105 --> 00:10:37,605
algorithms.

288
00:10:38,225 --> 00:10:40,360
I don't know if that was purposeful, but

289
00:10:40,580 --> 00:10:42,899
I was like, I kept shouting into my

290
00:10:42,899 --> 00:10:44,980
into my phone. It's algorithms. It's algorithms.

291
00:10:46,820 --> 00:10:48,980
The, so I saw him just in Dallas

292
00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:50,740
at podcast movement, and it was so good

293
00:10:50,740 --> 00:10:52,100
to just see him because we hadn't seen

294
00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:53,960
each other personally in years.

295
00:10:54,875 --> 00:10:56,634
And the last time, I think, we actually

296
00:10:56,634 --> 00:10:58,955
saw each other in he's actually he's he's

297
00:10:58,955 --> 00:10:59,455
witnessed

298
00:11:00,554 --> 00:11:03,294
my, you know, two previous marriages and divorces.

299
00:11:03,754 --> 00:11:05,595
He's been with with me in my life

300
00:11:05,595 --> 00:11:06,654
for a long time.

301
00:11:07,115 --> 00:11:09,050
And I think the last time we might've

302
00:11:09,050 --> 00:11:10,889
seen each other in person was in Austin

303
00:11:10,889 --> 00:11:12,730
when I was still living there. And,

304
00:11:13,529 --> 00:11:15,850
we bumped into each other on the street

305
00:11:15,850 --> 00:11:17,929
at night, which is really a kind of

306
00:11:17,929 --> 00:11:18,990
an odd occurrence.

307
00:11:19,769 --> 00:11:20,269
And,

308
00:11:20,835 --> 00:11:22,595
and he was a big supporter of Value

309
00:11:22,595 --> 00:11:25,254
for Value. He supported the No Agenda Show,

310
00:11:25,394 --> 00:11:27,894
just a fantastic guy. And,

311
00:11:28,274 --> 00:11:30,355
as I reflect on all the things he's

312
00:11:30,355 --> 00:11:32,695
done, the voice that he's been for podcasting,

313
00:11:33,399 --> 00:11:35,240
it's it's a loss. It really is a

314
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,959
loss because I knew that no matter what

315
00:11:37,959 --> 00:11:40,200
crazy ideas were out there, what people came

316
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,779
up with, or what maybe the podcast industrial

317
00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:45,799
complex was doing, if Todd was against it

318
00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:47,580
or for it, he would let you know.

319
00:11:47,705 --> 00:11:49,945
And that is really what I will miss

320
00:11:49,945 --> 00:11:51,004
most about him.

321
00:11:51,544 --> 00:11:52,585
On the other hand,

322
00:11:52,985 --> 00:11:55,384
I think that, and I pray he's with

323
00:11:55,384 --> 00:11:57,544
our Lord in heaven, that he is just

324
00:11:57,544 --> 00:11:59,004
enveloped in his arms.

325
00:12:00,024 --> 00:12:01,945
I feel that Todd would really want us

326
00:12:01,945 --> 00:12:04,230
to remember him for the funny guy that

327
00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:05,830
he was. He was all he yeah. He

328
00:12:05,830 --> 00:12:08,710
could be he could be serious, but, man,

329
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:10,870
he had a a sense of humor about

330
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:11,370
him.

331
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:13,850
You know, the thing

332
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:16,629
we would make so much fun of him

333
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:18,470
all the time, and he always took that

334
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:20,534
in such stride. Because, of course, there'd always

335
00:12:20,534 --> 00:12:23,174
be, oh, no. I'm under DNA. I can't

336
00:12:23,174 --> 00:12:25,014
talk about that. You know? So I expect

337
00:12:25,014 --> 00:12:26,454
him to pop up in any moment and

338
00:12:26,454 --> 00:12:27,894
said, just wanna let you know. I know,

339
00:12:27,894 --> 00:12:29,334
Adam, I can tell you about heaven, but

340
00:12:29,334 --> 00:12:31,334
I'm under DNA from God, so I can't

341
00:12:31,334 --> 00:12:31,995
say anything.

342
00:12:32,375 --> 00:12:34,759
That to me was odd. Just a a

343
00:12:34,759 --> 00:12:37,399
great guy, and, his memory will be with

344
00:12:37,399 --> 00:12:38,139
me forever.

345
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,779
Yeah. Yeah. That's certainly true. And,

346
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,720
you know, matter no matter when you talk

347
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,019
to him and what situation,

348
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,815
he was always the same guy, same guy

349
00:12:49,815 --> 00:12:51,914
on the podcast, same guy in person,

350
00:12:53,334 --> 00:12:55,095
you know, even, you know, just one on

351
00:12:55,095 --> 00:12:57,355
one, you know, he was, you know, always

352
00:12:57,894 --> 00:13:00,054
always Todd. I mean, there was no other

353
00:13:00,054 --> 00:13:01,355
way to describe it.

354
00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:04,379
Yeah. And I think that,

355
00:13:05,019 --> 00:13:05,759
this whole,

356
00:13:06,539 --> 00:13:07,759
new media show was,

357
00:13:08,539 --> 00:13:11,899
is just an extension of Todd's overall approach

358
00:13:11,899 --> 00:13:14,299
and philosophy and things like that. And even

359
00:13:14,299 --> 00:13:15,200
though there were

360
00:13:15,625 --> 00:13:17,485
heated times on on the show,

361
00:13:18,345 --> 00:13:21,485
between he and I about ideas about podcasting,

362
00:13:21,625 --> 00:13:22,125
and

363
00:13:22,425 --> 00:13:22,925
and

364
00:13:23,384 --> 00:13:24,684
it it just really showed,

365
00:13:25,705 --> 00:13:28,845
every week his passion for the the overall

366
00:13:28,904 --> 00:13:31,085
overall medium. I mean, we both had the

367
00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:34,250
same intent in mind. It just maybe occasionally

368
00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:36,190
we had a different pathway of getting there.

369
00:13:36,809 --> 00:13:37,949
But it was

370
00:13:38,329 --> 00:13:39,470
really kind of,

371
00:13:40,809 --> 00:13:42,669
remarkable, really. And I think

372
00:13:43,289 --> 00:13:45,850
it's a sign of the of the earlier

373
00:13:45,850 --> 00:13:46,829
age of podcasting,

374
00:13:47,345 --> 00:13:49,684
just like what Adam was talking about, about

375
00:13:49,985 --> 00:13:52,785
how and Mike, you were too about how

376
00:13:52,785 --> 00:13:55,264
Todd would just, you know, speak his mind,

377
00:13:55,264 --> 00:13:57,105
show up. I mean, that's what this podcast

378
00:13:57,105 --> 00:13:59,825
was. This this new media show was both

379
00:13:59,825 --> 00:14:00,485
of us.

380
00:14:00,830 --> 00:14:02,830
I think I posted it on Facebook, too,

381
00:14:02,830 --> 00:14:03,330
but,

382
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:06,529
it was just an appointment on our calendar,

383
00:14:06,590 --> 00:14:08,450
right, for many, many years.

384
00:14:08,990 --> 00:14:10,830
And for a few years, we did it

385
00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:11,730
twice a week.

386
00:14:12,269 --> 00:14:14,269
And really what it was, we just pulled

387
00:14:14,269 --> 00:14:15,169
down our microphones

388
00:14:16,264 --> 00:14:17,325
and started talking.

389
00:14:17,785 --> 00:14:20,745
And I I think that's that's what the

390
00:14:20,745 --> 00:14:23,065
the difference is between I I think what

391
00:14:23,065 --> 00:14:24,985
a lot of people perceive podcasting to be

392
00:14:24,985 --> 00:14:27,884
today is that it's this highly produced, highly

393
00:14:28,264 --> 00:14:28,764
polished,

394
00:14:29,570 --> 00:14:31,809
you know, almost like broadcast production. Right?

395
00:14:32,289 --> 00:14:32,789
When

396
00:14:33,169 --> 00:14:33,669
when

397
00:14:34,049 --> 00:14:34,709
it really,

398
00:14:35,649 --> 00:14:36,870
didn't come from that.

399
00:14:37,889 --> 00:14:38,870
And I think his

400
00:14:39,409 --> 00:14:41,669
his background of being in the Navy,

401
00:14:42,129 --> 00:14:44,315
for many, many years, And,

402
00:14:44,774 --> 00:14:47,754
you know, he's just so heavily in into

403
00:14:48,134 --> 00:14:48,634
technology.

404
00:14:49,654 --> 00:14:53,174
And and that was really the driving force

405
00:14:53,174 --> 00:14:55,195
about this, you know, you know. And

406
00:14:55,654 --> 00:14:57,335
and, Adam, you you you can speak to

407
00:14:57,335 --> 00:14:58,955
this too. And I both

408
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,899
Mike and Rob have a background in technology

409
00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:05,440
too. So there's a common thread here. You

410
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,159
know, Adam has definitely had a more broad

411
00:15:08,159 --> 00:15:10,100
background in the, you know,

412
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,279
the MTV days and being an entertainer of

413
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:13,779
sorts.

414
00:15:14,235 --> 00:15:14,475
And

415
00:15:15,195 --> 00:15:17,034
but most of us came from more of

416
00:15:17,034 --> 00:15:19,514
a technical background. I've got a marketing background,

417
00:15:19,514 --> 00:15:22,014
but I was very steeped in the technology

418
00:15:22,075 --> 00:15:23,914
side. But that was the big thing about

419
00:15:23,914 --> 00:15:24,414
tech

420
00:15:24,794 --> 00:15:27,674
with Todd that that really made him stand

421
00:15:27,674 --> 00:15:29,934
out and what really made this medium possible.

422
00:15:29,970 --> 00:15:32,529
I don't know. Rob or Adam, do you

423
00:15:32,529 --> 00:15:34,929
wanna talk about that aspect of Todd and

424
00:15:34,929 --> 00:15:36,230
why that was so important?

425
00:15:38,529 --> 00:15:40,529
Well, I'll I'll say that I'm not I

426
00:15:40,529 --> 00:15:43,169
don't know exactly the extent of Todd's technical

427
00:15:43,169 --> 00:15:43,669
background.

428
00:15:44,414 --> 00:15:46,595
To me, whenever we talked, he felt like

429
00:15:47,134 --> 00:15:49,214
he was a tinkerer like me, and it's

430
00:15:49,214 --> 00:15:51,855
particularly when it came to putting stuff together.

431
00:15:51,855 --> 00:15:54,014
You know? Yep. It's always like, okay. I'm

432
00:15:54,014 --> 00:15:56,495
getting I'm hearing myself back. Oh, wait a

433
00:15:56,495 --> 00:15:58,514
minute. I've got another delay here.

434
00:15:58,990 --> 00:16:00,910
Sorry. That camera just went on the fritz.

435
00:16:00,910 --> 00:16:03,570
Oh, my drive died. I mean, I identify

436
00:16:03,710 --> 00:16:05,470
so much with all of that from Todd,

437
00:16:05,470 --> 00:16:07,629
and I'm I'm just happy that he built

438
00:16:07,629 --> 00:16:09,809
up a nice team around him at Blueberry

439
00:16:10,269 --> 00:16:12,625
that really supported his ideas because I can

440
00:16:12,625 --> 00:16:14,944
identify with that. And and and from everything

441
00:16:14,944 --> 00:16:17,524
I know, everyone at Blueberry really loved him,

442
00:16:17,824 --> 00:16:20,384
his board, people who worked with him and

443
00:16:20,384 --> 00:16:21,584
worked for him. Yeah.

444
00:16:22,225 --> 00:16:24,544
And it's it can be challenging with a

445
00:16:24,544 --> 00:16:25,044
tinkerer,

446
00:16:25,460 --> 00:16:26,580
you know, because I know that he would

447
00:16:26,580 --> 00:16:28,019
come up with an idea, and I wanna

448
00:16:28,019 --> 00:16:29,700
implement it, and let's get this done, and

449
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:30,919
how can we make it happen?

450
00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:32,740
So, yeah, that,

451
00:16:33,379 --> 00:16:35,620
that was definitely one of the special aspects

452
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:36,200
of him.

453
00:16:36,980 --> 00:16:38,820
Yeah. You could see it in the production

454
00:16:38,820 --> 00:16:40,419
of the new media show. There was a

455
00:16:40,419 --> 00:16:40,904
lot of,

456
00:16:41,545 --> 00:16:44,745
regular technical issues, and that that was kind

457
00:16:44,745 --> 00:16:45,565
of an issue

458
00:16:45,945 --> 00:16:48,105
with really doing doing any kind of live

459
00:16:48,105 --> 00:16:48,925
live production.

460
00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:49,884
And

461
00:16:50,185 --> 00:16:52,665
he wanted to own that whole process too.

462
00:16:52,665 --> 00:16:54,904
I mean, we did a few episodes like

463
00:16:54,904 --> 00:16:57,330
this one on a platform like a StreamYard

464
00:16:57,330 --> 00:16:59,570
or whatever, but I don't think he ever

465
00:16:59,570 --> 00:17:00,549
really liked that.

466
00:17:01,009 --> 00:17:03,170
Oh oh, but, Rob, this is my favorite

467
00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:05,829
part of this show. For the past year,

468
00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:07,109
it's always been

469
00:17:07,490 --> 00:17:09,250
Todd's talking about stuff and he used to

470
00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:10,769
come up with video, and then you get

471
00:17:10,769 --> 00:17:12,184
into this huge argument.

472
00:17:12,644 --> 00:17:14,484
And, again, I was I always listen to

473
00:17:14,484 --> 00:17:16,484
the media show when I'm walking the dog.

474
00:17:16,484 --> 00:17:18,804
I think, like, Wednesday nights. And the dog

475
00:17:18,804 --> 00:17:20,724
is always looking at me like, why are

476
00:17:20,724 --> 00:17:22,964
you laughing? I said, because this is funny,

477
00:17:22,964 --> 00:17:25,299
dog. Listen to these two guys. If just

478
00:17:25,299 --> 00:17:27,079
the video audio conversation,

479
00:17:28,659 --> 00:17:30,339
got to a point where it was just,

480
00:17:30,659 --> 00:17:32,179
like, oh, I I need a little bit

481
00:17:32,179 --> 00:17:34,019
of my diet right now. Let's tune in

482
00:17:34,019 --> 00:17:35,700
to the new media show. I need to

483
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:37,779
hear this argument. And, of course, I was

484
00:17:37,779 --> 00:17:39,159
always on Todd's side.

485
00:17:39,494 --> 00:17:40,714
Of course. Yeah.

486
00:17:41,734 --> 00:17:43,595
Me too. I have a face for radio.

487
00:17:43,654 --> 00:17:44,694
So, yeah, that's,

488
00:17:45,255 --> 00:17:46,234
that's how that works.

489
00:17:47,654 --> 00:17:48,154
Well,

490
00:17:48,615 --> 00:17:50,075
what's your thought too? I know,

491
00:17:50,615 --> 00:17:51,115
you're

492
00:17:51,970 --> 00:17:54,610
a I mean, you're an engineer, kind of

493
00:17:54,610 --> 00:17:58,049
programmer, technical guy too. I think Todd probably

494
00:17:58,049 --> 00:17:58,549
almost

495
00:17:59,170 --> 00:18:01,029
probably at his happiest at CES.

496
00:18:02,130 --> 00:18:04,610
Yeah. Right. You know, I was lucky enough

497
00:18:04,610 --> 00:18:06,690
to go to a couple CESs when he

498
00:18:06,690 --> 00:18:09,355
was there and and run around as crazy

499
00:18:09,355 --> 00:18:10,954
as it was and doing all the recording.

500
00:18:10,954 --> 00:18:12,494
But, I mean, he definitely

501
00:18:12,795 --> 00:18:15,434
really enjoyed those events and and setting it

502
00:18:15,434 --> 00:18:16,095
up. And,

503
00:18:16,394 --> 00:18:18,154
obviously, he enjoyed the money he made from

504
00:18:18,154 --> 00:18:19,755
it, but I think, you know, take the

505
00:18:19,755 --> 00:18:21,630
money away. He still was just happy as

506
00:18:21,630 --> 00:18:23,630
could be at that time. He's a gear

507
00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:25,809
head like most of us, you know, just,

508
00:18:26,990 --> 00:18:28,910
you know, wants to tinker with things and,

509
00:18:29,710 --> 00:18:31,549
you know, oh, you got this new microphone.

510
00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:33,570
Does it make me sound any better or

511
00:18:33,924 --> 00:18:36,325
new camera, new this, that, the other thing.

512
00:18:36,325 --> 00:18:38,085
And, you know, there's always something, you know,

513
00:18:38,085 --> 00:18:39,525
I I've done a show with him as

514
00:18:39,525 --> 00:18:40,744
well. You know, the,

515
00:18:41,525 --> 00:18:43,545
podcast insider for blueberry.

516
00:18:43,924 --> 00:18:44,424
And,

517
00:18:45,285 --> 00:18:46,964
Yeah. It's, you know, we had the same

518
00:18:46,964 --> 00:18:48,265
sort of technical issues

519
00:18:48,805 --> 00:18:51,099
except for later on, I I started to

520
00:18:51,099 --> 00:18:53,099
be in charge of recording, so that worked.

521
00:18:53,099 --> 00:18:53,599
But

522
00:18:55,019 --> 00:18:56,720
Yeah. And part of it is that he

523
00:18:57,099 --> 00:18:59,019
he loved to tinker so much that he

524
00:18:59,019 --> 00:19:01,039
was always playing with new gear and

525
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:03,420
and new things to,

526
00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:05,265
to try and learn about,

527
00:19:07,105 --> 00:19:09,285
new new tech, new devices and stuff. And

528
00:19:09,345 --> 00:19:11,424
and companies would, like, send him stuff. So

529
00:19:11,424 --> 00:19:11,744
he would

530
00:19:12,625 --> 00:19:14,144
it it was almost like they were force

531
00:19:14,144 --> 00:19:17,105
feeding him into that kind of Mhmm. Pattern

532
00:19:17,105 --> 00:19:19,899
that he loved to do so much. So

533
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,500
it and it really kind of

534
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,519
showed in the show. And like Adam just

535
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:26,839
said, I can so much appreciate it because

536
00:19:26,839 --> 00:19:28,599
in the early years you kind of had

537
00:19:28,599 --> 00:19:30,759
to be a thinker to be successful in

538
00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:32,059
podcasting. It wasn't

539
00:19:32,855 --> 00:19:35,015
a easy thing to do like it is

540
00:19:35,015 --> 00:19:35,515
now,

541
00:19:36,295 --> 00:19:37,035
or easier.

542
00:19:38,375 --> 00:19:40,695
Right? I I I remember I went to,

543
00:19:41,255 --> 00:19:43,654
CS a couple of times, you know, helping

544
00:19:43,654 --> 00:19:44,474
with the live

545
00:19:44,855 --> 00:19:47,069
stream and all that. And, I mean, there

546
00:19:47,069 --> 00:19:49,950
was just always something going on that, it

547
00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:51,549
was messing up, but, you know, we all

548
00:19:51,549 --> 00:19:53,950
pulled together, got it going. And usually, it

549
00:19:53,950 --> 00:19:56,049
was Todd right in the middle running wires

550
00:19:56,109 --> 00:19:59,005
and plugging things in and, you know, all

551
00:19:59,005 --> 00:20:00,924
that. But, yeah, you're you're right, Rob. He

552
00:20:00,924 --> 00:20:01,744
was definitely

553
00:20:02,204 --> 00:20:05,005
at his best at CES. He'd he'd come

554
00:20:05,005 --> 00:20:06,845
back to the to where we were live

555
00:20:06,845 --> 00:20:08,845
streaming. So I just did this great interview

556
00:20:08,845 --> 00:20:11,929
with this outfit that does whatever. And, you

557
00:20:11,929 --> 00:20:13,529
know, and, you know, he was just so

558
00:20:13,529 --> 00:20:14,670
excited about,

559
00:20:15,369 --> 00:20:17,130
you know, all the stuff there, you know,

560
00:20:17,130 --> 00:20:19,769
even the even all the iPhone and iPad

561
00:20:19,769 --> 00:20:21,309
cases back in the day.

562
00:20:22,650 --> 00:20:24,170
Yeah. I mean I mean, he set up

563
00:20:24,250 --> 00:20:25,450
I mean, a lot of people don't know

564
00:20:25,450 --> 00:20:27,049
this about topic. He would set up a

565
00:20:27,049 --> 00:20:30,714
whole video production, live video streaming production from

566
00:20:30,714 --> 00:20:33,534
CES and he would rent a full Zann

567
00:20:33,674 --> 00:20:35,855
to haul a session there every year.

568
00:20:36,315 --> 00:20:38,154
Right. I mean, it was a big, big

569
00:20:38,154 --> 00:20:39,970
production. I mean, I went down there a

570
00:20:39,970 --> 00:20:42,529
couple of times and and helped helped him

571
00:20:42,529 --> 00:20:44,529
carry around cameras and stuff like that to

572
00:20:44,529 --> 00:20:45,430
go around and

573
00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:49,170
record conversations at the CES booths and stuff

574
00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:50,150
like that. And,

575
00:20:50,450 --> 00:20:52,370
yeah, so we had a fun time down

576
00:20:52,370 --> 00:20:53,650
there. I know, Mike, you were down there

577
00:20:53,650 --> 00:20:54,850
a fair amount of time too, but he

578
00:20:54,850 --> 00:20:56,804
had a whole crew because he started a

579
00:20:56,804 --> 00:20:59,384
podcast network. It's called the Tech Podcast Network.

580
00:21:00,085 --> 00:21:01,765
And I was an early member of that

581
00:21:01,765 --> 00:21:03,285
with the radio show that I did.

582
00:21:04,244 --> 00:21:06,804
And and so I got involved and and

583
00:21:06,804 --> 00:21:07,944
helped him stream,

584
00:21:08,884 --> 00:21:10,265
some of the audio content,

585
00:21:10,940 --> 00:21:12,859
over a streaming server that I had. We

586
00:21:12,859 --> 00:21:13,359
had

587
00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:16,480
a four camera, you know, switchboard,

588
00:21:16,779 --> 00:21:19,420
the whole thing, and, you know, lighting and,

589
00:21:19,420 --> 00:21:22,220
you know, had a overhead shot camera so

590
00:21:22,220 --> 00:21:24,434
they could show the I mean, we we

591
00:21:24,434 --> 00:21:26,674
had it dialed in, about every ten minutes

592
00:21:26,674 --> 00:21:28,134
we were interviewing somebody.

593
00:21:28,755 --> 00:21:29,894
Yeah. Yeah.

594
00:21:31,474 --> 00:21:32,914
Todd had a lot of firsts in the

595
00:21:32,914 --> 00:21:34,934
space. Right? The first podcast awards

596
00:21:35,234 --> 00:21:37,794
Yeah. Which I I you know, we would

597
00:21:37,794 --> 00:21:38,294
say,

598
00:21:38,755 --> 00:21:40,170
when I talk about it, I'd be like,

599
00:21:40,250 --> 00:21:42,009
Todd, why are you doing this to yourself?

600
00:21:42,009 --> 00:21:42,990
This is strange.

601
00:21:43,609 --> 00:21:45,130
I mean, you get I was wondering about

602
00:21:45,130 --> 00:21:47,690
that. You get only grief. You get grief

603
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:49,850
from this. You know, it was it was

604
00:21:50,009 --> 00:21:52,190
he was glutton for that, but he really

605
00:21:52,534 --> 00:21:53,835
wanted to help, you know,

606
00:21:54,375 --> 00:21:56,775
acknowledge have people acknowledge in those awards. And,

607
00:21:58,375 --> 00:22:00,954
I I think more than anything else, Todd,

608
00:22:01,095 --> 00:22:03,015
he tried to do whatever he could to

609
00:22:03,015 --> 00:22:04,714
get the word out about podcast.

610
00:22:05,859 --> 00:22:07,640
Yeah. It means for immediate work.

611
00:22:08,659 --> 00:22:10,759
Danny wrote the first book on podcasting,

612
00:22:11,859 --> 00:22:13,859
the the do it yourself guide back in

613
00:22:13,859 --> 00:22:14,819
02/2005,

614
00:22:14,819 --> 00:22:16,179
which was You have a copy of it

615
00:22:16,179 --> 00:22:17,859
back here. So I've got one behind me

616
00:22:17,859 --> 00:22:20,019
too on the shelf. Everybody has a copy.

617
00:22:20,019 --> 00:22:21,240
It better be signed.

618
00:22:23,914 --> 00:22:24,414
That's

619
00:22:24,715 --> 00:22:27,434
right. So, I mean, it's it's really a

620
00:22:27,434 --> 00:22:29,355
record. I mean, I think that that book

621
00:22:29,355 --> 00:22:30,255
now is really

622
00:22:30,555 --> 00:22:32,394
a record of what podcasting was like in

623
00:22:32,394 --> 00:22:33,295
the early years.

624
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:35,220
And it's

625
00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:36,019
it's,

626
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:38,640
you know, I kinda wanna get your guys'

627
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:39,779
thoughts on this. I mean,

628
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:44,400
podcasting has changed a lot in in ways

629
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,119
that are maybe not as significant as we

630
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,234
all kind of kind of like

631
00:22:49,615 --> 00:22:51,055
to think. But the core of it really

632
00:22:51,055 --> 00:22:53,714
isn't hasn't really changed. Right? Adam,

633
00:22:54,174 --> 00:22:55,714
do you wanna talk about that?

634
00:22:57,855 --> 00:22:58,755
About the core?

635
00:22:59,134 --> 00:23:02,039
Yeah. About what what podcasting is really all

636
00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:04,460
about and what what it's been about and

637
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:05,099
and

638
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:06,700
that even today,

639
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,559
the foundation of podcasting is still a chord

640
00:23:09,559 --> 00:23:10,779
in that. Well,

641
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,679
yes. And I think Todd was a big

642
00:23:12,679 --> 00:23:15,434
proponent of this. Although we argued often about

643
00:23:15,434 --> 00:23:17,214
the concept of grow your show.

644
00:23:17,994 --> 00:23:18,974
Right. Right.

645
00:23:19,355 --> 00:23:21,194
Or how to grow your show. Right.

646
00:23:21,755 --> 00:23:23,914
Look, what was great about podcasting, that's exact

647
00:23:24,075 --> 00:23:25,914
as I said earlier, that's exactly what Todd

648
00:23:25,914 --> 00:23:28,119
was. It's like the beauty of it was

649
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,660
not slick produced,

650
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,519
you know, removing all the umms and the

651
00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:34,299
ahs, you know, being like,

652
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,599
you know, creating a wall of sound of

653
00:23:36,599 --> 00:23:39,079
editing that everything was perfect. The beauty for

654
00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:41,355
me in the early days was listening to

655
00:23:41,355 --> 00:23:43,535
Michael Butler, the Rock and Roll Geek Show,

656
00:23:44,555 --> 00:23:46,634
drinking a six pack, talking about a crappy

657
00:23:46,634 --> 00:23:48,474
gig he had, listen to Don and Drew

658
00:23:48,474 --> 00:23:49,295
in their farmhouse,

659
00:23:49,755 --> 00:23:51,914
you know, listen to Todd fumble and bumble

660
00:23:51,914 --> 00:23:52,414
and,

661
00:23:52,875 --> 00:23:55,339
and stick things together and talk about early,

662
00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:56,559
early hosting.

663
00:23:57,339 --> 00:23:59,579
That's really what it's always been about. We

664
00:23:59,740 --> 00:24:02,299
the what I call the podcast industrial complex

665
00:24:02,299 --> 00:24:03,359
has definitely,

666
00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:06,299
had a mind shift, and, you know, that's

667
00:24:06,299 --> 00:24:08,704
because of you know, it's it's understandable.

668
00:24:10,125 --> 00:24:10,625
Money,

669
00:24:11,884 --> 00:24:12,285
big names.

670
00:24:13,484 --> 00:24:15,664
There's so many huge success stories.

671
00:24:16,444 --> 00:24:17,265
But, ultimately,

672
00:24:18,125 --> 00:24:20,204
I prefer list I still listen to Dave

673
00:24:20,204 --> 00:24:22,549
Winer's Scripting News podcast. He doesn't even call

674
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:24,549
it a podcast. He just records something on

675
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:26,890
his on his iPhone and uploads it.

676
00:24:27,349 --> 00:24:28,650
That to me, the,

677
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:34,390
the the voices who just have something to

678
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:36,855
say for anyone who wants to listen, that

679
00:24:36,855 --> 00:24:39,414
to me is what podcasting has always been

680
00:24:39,414 --> 00:24:40,634
about. And the more

681
00:24:41,174 --> 00:24:42,775
I talk about it, the more I see

682
00:24:42,775 --> 00:24:45,815
people understanding that they can just do whatever

683
00:24:45,815 --> 00:24:47,494
they want to do and do it for

684
00:24:47,494 --> 00:24:49,275
a very smaller local community,

685
00:24:49,779 --> 00:24:52,180
hyperlocal podcast in which I think Todd also

686
00:24:52,180 --> 00:24:54,099
kind of glommed on to. And I hope

687
00:24:54,099 --> 00:24:56,119
a lot of the the hosting companies

688
00:24:56,740 --> 00:24:59,140
see that as really the next phase of

689
00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:00,279
where we can go,

690
00:25:01,299 --> 00:25:03,720
because people are even somewhat intimidated

691
00:25:04,019 --> 00:25:06,325
from, well, I mean, how can I be

692
00:25:06,325 --> 00:25:07,605
a Joe Rogan? Well, you don't have to

693
00:25:07,605 --> 00:25:09,204
be a Joe Rogan. You can do something

694
00:25:09,204 --> 00:25:10,565
for your town. You can do something for

695
00:25:10,565 --> 00:25:13,125
your school, something for your club, something for

696
00:25:13,125 --> 00:25:15,924
your church. Todd got that. He really did.

697
00:25:15,924 --> 00:25:18,085
And if anything, he you know, the new

698
00:25:18,085 --> 00:25:20,700
media show proved it. You know, that that's

699
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:22,859
a show for people like us. Not a

700
00:25:22,859 --> 00:25:25,599
huge audience, really. I mean, relatively speaking.

701
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:28,220
Right. And but is where he could express

702
00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:30,619
his views, argue with you, you express your

703
00:25:30,619 --> 00:25:31,119
views.

704
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:34,005
That is what podcasting has always been about

705
00:25:34,005 --> 00:25:35,845
to me. I and I think it's still

706
00:25:35,845 --> 00:25:36,825
alive and well.

707
00:25:37,204 --> 00:25:38,964
And, you know, this I'm just looking at

708
00:25:38,964 --> 00:25:40,484
the comments. A lot of people are saying

709
00:25:40,484 --> 00:25:42,484
we should have an award for Todd. I'm

710
00:25:42,484 --> 00:25:43,845
all in on that. I think it's a

711
00:25:43,845 --> 00:25:45,809
great idea. I'm not quite sure what we

712
00:25:45,809 --> 00:25:47,490
should call it, and I don't think he

713
00:25:47,490 --> 00:25:49,349
would want it to be the indie podcaster.

714
00:25:50,529 --> 00:25:51,509
Right. But,

715
00:25:52,690 --> 00:25:53,990
we should come up with something,

716
00:25:54,769 --> 00:25:56,710
for that, you know, because

717
00:25:57,914 --> 00:26:00,095
he deserves that. And there's definitely

718
00:26:00,555 --> 00:26:02,335
a place that can be

719
00:26:02,955 --> 00:26:04,894
memorialized with something like that.

720
00:26:05,195 --> 00:26:07,994
Yeah. I was planning on adding him,

721
00:26:08,555 --> 00:26:10,715
to the roster of the podcast hall of

722
00:26:10,715 --> 00:26:13,115
fame that's coming up, you know, a special

723
00:26:13,115 --> 00:26:13,615
award.

724
00:26:14,049 --> 00:26:15,589
Mhmm. Oh, good. Good.

725
00:26:16,849 --> 00:26:17,349
So

726
00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:20,690
we can you know, maybe there's something else

727
00:26:20,690 --> 00:26:22,369
that we can do, too. But The best

728
00:26:22,369 --> 00:26:25,349
podcast, not from LA, Chicago or New York.

729
00:26:26,835 --> 00:26:29,315
Right. Michigan. The best podcast from Michigan. That's

730
00:26:29,315 --> 00:26:31,335
that's right there. Right.

731
00:26:31,875 --> 00:26:32,775
Yeah. And I wanna

732
00:26:33,394 --> 00:26:36,035
say I appreciate everybody who's watching this. You

733
00:26:36,035 --> 00:26:36,934
know, we've got

734
00:26:37,474 --> 00:26:38,994
a a large group of people that have

735
00:26:38,994 --> 00:26:40,375
tuned in to watch this,

736
00:26:41,075 --> 00:26:43,890
this live show, and there's just a fantastic

737
00:26:44,029 --> 00:26:47,410
flow of people giving us heartfelt comments and

738
00:26:48,109 --> 00:26:49,710
and things in here. And I I just

739
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:50,210
wanna

740
00:26:50,509 --> 00:26:53,309
say and acknowledge that and say I would

741
00:26:53,309 --> 00:26:54,609
love to go through and

742
00:26:55,309 --> 00:26:57,089
talk about each one of these comments.

743
00:26:57,630 --> 00:26:59,605
But that would that would turn this into

744
00:26:59,605 --> 00:27:01,944
a three hour episode. So,

745
00:27:03,845 --> 00:27:06,585
but, yeah, it's it's really an honor

746
00:27:07,204 --> 00:27:07,944
for me,

747
00:27:08,404 --> 00:27:10,585
to have spent so many years with Todd

748
00:27:10,724 --> 00:27:12,664
doing that show, Adam. And

749
00:27:13,099 --> 00:27:15,019
and it was really, you know, he was

750
00:27:15,019 --> 00:27:16,160
just such a strong

751
00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:17,920
believer in

752
00:27:18,299 --> 00:27:20,380
this non editing thing like you were talking

753
00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:22,880
about. I think I got pulled into,

754
00:27:23,259 --> 00:27:23,920
you know,

755
00:27:24,539 --> 00:27:26,779
in editing, and I think there's nothing wrong

756
00:27:26,779 --> 00:27:28,125
with it. I but I do think that

757
00:27:28,125 --> 00:27:29,884
there's something wrong with it if it goes

758
00:27:29,884 --> 00:27:30,545
too far.

759
00:27:32,365 --> 00:27:34,765
And that's oftentimes what people were tempted to

760
00:27:34,765 --> 00:27:37,724
do. And but Todd was really looking for

761
00:27:37,884 --> 00:27:38,924
actually, at the end of the day, because

762
00:27:38,924 --> 00:27:40,285
he told me this over and over again,

763
00:27:40,285 --> 00:27:41,505
he was looking for efficiency.

764
00:27:41,805 --> 00:27:43,025
He was looking for

765
00:27:43,369 --> 00:27:45,210
trying to get, you know, come in and

766
00:27:45,210 --> 00:27:46,809
get the content done, get out. And so

767
00:27:46,809 --> 00:27:48,490
we can move on to something else. Yeah.

768
00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:50,029
That was, you know, when

769
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:54,090
we're, you know, planning products or improvements and

770
00:27:54,090 --> 00:27:56,090
stuff at Blueberry, he was always in there.

771
00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:58,085
Let's make it quicker, make it easier, make

772
00:27:58,085 --> 00:27:59,305
it quicker. You know,

773
00:27:59,684 --> 00:28:01,065
that was, you know, his,

774
00:28:01,445 --> 00:28:03,525
his call every time, you know, it was

775
00:28:03,525 --> 00:28:05,205
like, you know, well, this is going to

776
00:28:05,205 --> 00:28:06,805
slow people down. You know, there's not, you

777
00:28:06,805 --> 00:28:08,505
know, people got things to do,

778
00:28:08,805 --> 00:28:09,384
you know?

779
00:28:10,234 --> 00:28:11,225
Speaker three: Yeah.

780
00:28:12,509 --> 00:28:13,630
Daniel j Lewis,

781
00:28:14,029 --> 00:28:16,210
has a comment in here. It says the

782
00:28:17,150 --> 00:28:18,750
the the Todd Cochran award needs to be

783
00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:20,509
part of the podcast awards. Well, I think

784
00:28:20,509 --> 00:28:21,650
it's a big question.

785
00:28:21,950 --> 00:28:24,450
What's gonna happen to the podcast awards too?

786
00:28:24,605 --> 00:28:26,545
Wasn't that single handedly Todd? The

787
00:28:27,005 --> 00:28:29,805
podcast award? Yeah. I was single handedly. Pretty

788
00:28:29,805 --> 00:28:31,664
much. He had some sort of

789
00:28:32,125 --> 00:28:33,404
team behind it, but,

790
00:28:35,164 --> 00:28:37,644
you know, us at Blueberry weren't really privy

791
00:28:37,644 --> 00:28:38,545
to all that.

792
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:39,740
Yeah.

793
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:40,619
Yeah.

794
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,440
I wasn't either. I mean, a lot of

795
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,000
the access to even even the new media

796
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,839
show, you know, that's why I say Todd

797
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:49,259
was very much wanted to have it done

798
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,759
the way he wanted to have it done.

799
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:53,125
And so I didn't really have deep access

800
00:28:53,125 --> 00:28:54,724
into the back end of the show, to

801
00:28:54,724 --> 00:28:56,964
be quite frank about it. And it could

802
00:28:56,964 --> 00:28:58,404
be one of the reasons why we're not

803
00:28:58,404 --> 00:29:00,005
going out on all of his channels is

804
00:29:00,005 --> 00:29:01,224
because, you know,

805
00:29:01,525 --> 00:29:03,224
the setup that I have here,

806
00:29:03,684 --> 00:29:05,605
was done when he was set up on

807
00:29:05,605 --> 00:29:06,505
a different platform.

808
00:29:07,140 --> 00:29:09,779
And so so I think he shifted to

809
00:29:09,779 --> 00:29:11,619
a to a new platform because he wasn't

810
00:29:11,619 --> 00:29:12,440
happy with

811
00:29:13,140 --> 00:29:14,119
using StreamYard

812
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:16,660
or using, you know, like a Restream or

813
00:29:16,660 --> 00:29:18,820
something like that. Not to denigrate any of

814
00:29:18,820 --> 00:29:20,200
those platforms. It's just

815
00:29:20,585 --> 00:29:22,585
you just had his own personal opinion about

816
00:29:22,585 --> 00:29:25,144
the quality and how it was done. So,

817
00:29:25,144 --> 00:29:26,825
so don't be surprised if you don't find

818
00:29:26,825 --> 00:29:29,805
this episode on any of, Todd's channels.

819
00:29:30,184 --> 00:29:30,684
Hopefully

820
00:29:31,144 --> 00:29:32,700
it'll show up over there, but I'm not,

821
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:34,539
I'm not all that hopeful that it did.

822
00:29:34,539 --> 00:29:36,720
It will go out in the RSS feed.

823
00:29:36,859 --> 00:29:39,740
Okay. So that I I do have access

824
00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:42,159
to that. So, I'll be able to post

825
00:29:42,220 --> 00:29:44,079
both video and audio on the RSS.

826
00:29:45,355 --> 00:29:45,855
Yeah.

827
00:29:46,554 --> 00:29:48,234
I mean, is there anything else that you

828
00:29:48,234 --> 00:29:50,335
guys wanna share about your

829
00:29:50,875 --> 00:29:52,654
memories of Todd and

830
00:29:52,954 --> 00:29:53,934
and his

831
00:29:54,474 --> 00:29:55,694
his kinda lasting,

832
00:29:56,554 --> 00:29:59,674
kinda legacy? I I guess, what does Todd

833
00:29:59,674 --> 00:30:00,174
mean

834
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:03,179
to this podcast space? I mean, the outpouring

835
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:04,299
that I've seen,

836
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:05,980
what far surpassed

837
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:07,579
what I expected.

838
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:11,240
And I think the the impact that he

839
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,559
has had just, it just hits a nerve

840
00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:15,419
with people. And I think it's

841
00:30:16,005 --> 00:30:16,505
very,

842
00:30:16,964 --> 00:30:17,464
very,

843
00:30:17,924 --> 00:30:19,845
significant. So I don't know who wants to

844
00:30:19,845 --> 00:30:20,984
go first on that.

845
00:30:21,684 --> 00:30:24,884
I always remember all the, conferences and stuff.

846
00:30:24,884 --> 00:30:27,224
You know? The booth, that was one thing.

847
00:30:27,605 --> 00:30:29,680
But it was all the after hours stuff,

848
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,359
you know, we'd be holding court in the

849
00:30:31,359 --> 00:30:33,119
bar and, you know, there would be people

850
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:36,320
coming in, leaving and, you know, and just

851
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,619
all the best conversations

852
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,039
were that. And,

853
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:40,740
you know,

854
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:42,880
that that's the thing I'm gonna miss the

855
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,480
most is, you know, not, not that I,

856
00:30:44,730 --> 00:30:47,144
you you know, wanna get, too drunked up

857
00:30:47,144 --> 00:30:49,464
or anything at a conference, but,

858
00:30:50,424 --> 00:30:51,304
you know, it was,

859
00:30:52,345 --> 00:30:54,424
yeah, it was just all those conversations. And

860
00:30:54,424 --> 00:30:56,105
then, you know, you walk through the, you

861
00:30:56,105 --> 00:30:58,289
know, walk through just about anywhere around the

862
00:30:58,289 --> 00:31:00,690
conference, and people were stopping Todd all the

863
00:31:00,690 --> 00:31:03,170
time. You know? And, you know, it took

864
00:31:03,170 --> 00:31:05,330
you half hour to get across the conference

865
00:31:05,330 --> 00:31:06,710
if you're trying to get somewhere.

866
00:31:07,809 --> 00:31:10,610
Lots of lots of people knew him. Oh,

867
00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:11,110
yeah.

868
00:31:11,545 --> 00:31:12,045
So

869
00:31:12,585 --> 00:31:16,285
typical Todd was this most recent podcast,

870
00:31:16,904 --> 00:31:18,365
podcast movement conference,

871
00:31:18,904 --> 00:31:19,384
and,

872
00:31:19,785 --> 00:31:22,125
there was a room for the podcast standards

873
00:31:22,184 --> 00:31:22,684
project.

874
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,759
And if you know how these conference things

875
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:29,960
goes, everything costs something. And there was coffee

876
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:30,779
and water

877
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,539
and I think some,

878
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,180
some, you know, some sodas,

879
00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:36,859
in the corner

880
00:31:37,414 --> 00:31:39,174
and which cost $400

881
00:31:39,174 --> 00:31:40,615
because that's what you have to do at

882
00:31:40,615 --> 00:31:42,534
a at a conference. You gotta pay out

883
00:31:42,534 --> 00:31:43,974
the nose for all kinds of stuff. But

884
00:31:43,974 --> 00:31:45,894
that's Todd. Todd had arranged that. He said,

885
00:31:45,894 --> 00:31:48,075
we gotta have coffee and sodas and water,

886
00:31:48,375 --> 00:31:49,815
and, you know, he he would do that

887
00:31:49,815 --> 00:31:51,994
kind of stuff because he knew how

888
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:54,539
he knew how it was supposed to be.

889
00:31:54,539 --> 00:31:56,220
He did he did a really he was

890
00:31:56,299 --> 00:31:56,799
he

891
00:31:57,180 --> 00:31:59,339
he didn't always succeed with how it was

892
00:31:59,339 --> 00:32:01,019
supposed to be according to him, but he

893
00:32:01,019 --> 00:32:03,259
always knew what he wanted and always stood

894
00:32:03,259 --> 00:32:04,720
for it. And,

895
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:06,880
I think you're right,

896
00:32:07,475 --> 00:32:08,775
Rob. Just the outpouring,

897
00:32:10,755 --> 00:32:11,255
from

898
00:32:11,875 --> 00:32:14,914
from everybody shows what an impact he had

899
00:32:14,914 --> 00:32:15,894
on the industry.

900
00:32:16,515 --> 00:32:19,529
And his legacy will be in Blueberry, which,

901
00:32:19,930 --> 00:32:21,650
I'm presuming can just continue

902
00:32:22,090 --> 00:32:23,950
Mhmm. The way it has.

903
00:32:25,529 --> 00:32:27,690
It was it's interesting that he was the

904
00:32:27,690 --> 00:32:30,170
first, just a week ago, I think. He

905
00:32:30,170 --> 00:32:32,170
was the first in twenty years in the

906
00:32:32,170 --> 00:32:33,849
industry to say, you know what? We're gonna

907
00:32:33,849 --> 00:32:34,830
raise our prices.

908
00:32:35,555 --> 00:32:37,634
And I'm I'm actually very sad I didn't

909
00:32:37,634 --> 00:32:39,474
get to have him on, on the podcasting

910
00:32:39,474 --> 00:32:41,394
two point o podcast to hear him defend

911
00:32:41,394 --> 00:32:43,974
that and talk about insights into it.

912
00:32:44,275 --> 00:32:45,795
But so in that regard, he was a

913
00:32:45,795 --> 00:32:47,575
leader of so many different things,

914
00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:51,549
a a lover of all things podcasting,

915
00:32:53,609 --> 00:32:54,109
and,

916
00:32:54,809 --> 00:32:56,509
he'll be forever in my heart.

917
00:32:56,970 --> 00:32:59,690
I I'll keep him there and and and

918
00:32:59,690 --> 00:33:00,669
will miss him

919
00:33:01,095 --> 00:33:01,914
as somebody

920
00:33:02,535 --> 00:33:04,794
who you could always count on to defend

921
00:33:05,095 --> 00:33:05,914
what was right,

922
00:33:06,934 --> 00:33:09,654
and to promote what he really felt was

923
00:33:09,654 --> 00:33:11,835
the correct way to move forward with podcasting,

924
00:33:13,015 --> 00:33:14,075
and not necessarily

925
00:33:14,535 --> 00:33:15,994
podcasting for profit,

926
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:18,890
but podcasting for podcasting sake.

927
00:33:20,309 --> 00:33:21,190
Yeah. I think that's,

928
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:24,390
that's the biggest legacy I think,

929
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:26,490
that I take away from it is,

930
00:33:26,869 --> 00:33:27,529
you know,

931
00:33:28,150 --> 00:33:30,069
what inspired him to get started in this

932
00:33:30,069 --> 00:33:31,769
medium was the non commercialism.

933
00:33:33,565 --> 00:33:35,804
And that was a big theme. And Adam,

934
00:33:35,804 --> 00:33:37,884
you remember those days, too. I mean, all

935
00:33:37,884 --> 00:33:40,284
all of you guys remember when this medium

936
00:33:40,284 --> 00:33:42,384
started, it certainly wasn't pro commercialism.

937
00:33:44,204 --> 00:33:45,710
It was, you know, you

938
00:33:46,169 --> 00:33:47,929
got, I had a commercial radio show when

939
00:33:47,929 --> 00:33:49,230
I started podcasting,

940
00:33:49,529 --> 00:33:52,490
you know, to be fully transparent about it.

941
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:54,669
I had ads in my podcast and

942
00:33:55,609 --> 00:33:57,369
when I started in 2004

943
00:33:57,369 --> 00:33:59,085
and very few people did

944
00:33:59,565 --> 00:34:01,424
back then. So ones that did

945
00:34:01,724 --> 00:34:03,484
kind of faced a little bit of,

946
00:34:04,605 --> 00:34:07,244
blowback right from from their audience because of

947
00:34:07,244 --> 00:34:09,184
the expectations that had been

948
00:34:09,724 --> 00:34:10,784
set for that.

949
00:34:11,164 --> 00:34:12,525
Adam, do you want to talk about that

950
00:34:12,525 --> 00:34:13,344
part of it

951
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,139
at all?

952
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:19,340
Well, I mean, about the expectations?

953
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:22,619
Of it not being commercialized.

954
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:23,500
Yeah.

955
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,039
Well, I

956
00:34:26,804 --> 00:34:27,464
you know,

957
00:34:28,324 --> 00:34:30,644
that's an interesting point because Todd always walked

958
00:34:30,644 --> 00:34:33,284
the line there. Yeah. But he also made

959
00:34:33,284 --> 00:34:35,525
sure that whatever people wanted, he wanted to

960
00:34:35,525 --> 00:34:37,364
get them at the right price, the most

961
00:34:37,364 --> 00:34:39,525
efficient way, and the way that made most

962
00:34:39,525 --> 00:34:40,585
sense. Just

963
00:34:41,364 --> 00:34:42,184
in the past

964
00:34:43,019 --> 00:34:45,659
week or so, he'd been working on chapter

965
00:34:45,659 --> 00:34:48,159
images and how that could possibly be used

966
00:34:48,860 --> 00:34:51,039
to track actual plays, as

967
00:34:51,820 --> 00:34:54,300
I think Rob mentioned earlier, a big part

968
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:55,760
of the early measurement

969
00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:58,079
and getting some standards together.

970
00:34:59,394 --> 00:35:01,554
But I I just always remember Todd saying,

971
00:35:01,554 --> 00:35:03,635
it's not always about making money. And he

972
00:35:03,635 --> 00:35:06,034
would always give these statistics that such a

973
00:35:06,034 --> 00:35:07,574
large portion of the blueberry

974
00:35:07,954 --> 00:35:09,954
customer base was not there to make money.

975
00:35:09,954 --> 00:35:12,614
They were there to to podcast for multiple

976
00:35:12,755 --> 00:35:13,255
reasons.

977
00:35:14,139 --> 00:35:14,639
Now,

978
00:35:16,660 --> 00:35:17,160
I

979
00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:20,380
when we started out with podcasting, it was

980
00:35:20,460 --> 00:35:21,760
we never even thought about,

981
00:35:22,619 --> 00:35:23,599
money, honestly.

982
00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:25,980
It was just, you know, just how can

983
00:35:25,980 --> 00:35:27,855
we get better gear? How can we get

984
00:35:28,094 --> 00:35:29,855
bandwidth? Rob, you guys were the first. You

985
00:35:29,855 --> 00:35:31,375
know? And I always said, how do those

986
00:35:31,375 --> 00:35:32,655
Lip Sync guys do it? I mean, I

987
00:35:32,655 --> 00:35:34,414
don't understand how they're making it so cheap.

988
00:35:34,414 --> 00:35:35,894
There's something's up with this. What do these

989
00:35:36,014 --> 00:35:37,715
do they have a sugar daddy somewhere?

990
00:35:38,974 --> 00:35:40,275
Well, most podcasts

991
00:35:40,815 --> 00:35:42,339
don't download a whole lot. So,

992
00:35:43,139 --> 00:35:44,440
and it works to our advantage.

993
00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:45,880
This is true.

994
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:48,519
So it really wasn't

995
00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:49,859
about that,

996
00:35:50,179 --> 00:35:51,639
in the beginning. And,

997
00:35:52,019 --> 00:35:52,599
you know,

998
00:35:53,859 --> 00:35:56,099
I'm I'm still you know, I've never run

999
00:35:56,099 --> 00:35:58,094
an ad on a podcast in my life.

1000
00:35:58,335 --> 00:36:00,574
I love value for value. I love people

1001
00:36:00,574 --> 00:36:01,074
supporting,

1002
00:36:01,695 --> 00:36:04,574
the show or any show because they get

1003
00:36:04,574 --> 00:36:05,635
value out of it.

1004
00:36:06,255 --> 00:36:09,315
Been pushing that. When we went to streaming

1005
00:36:09,375 --> 00:36:11,775
value for value, Todd was right there, first

1006
00:36:11,775 --> 00:36:13,980
one. You know, Blueberry supported it.

1007
00:36:14,940 --> 00:36:17,179
He believed in in many different ways, but

1008
00:36:17,179 --> 00:36:19,500
also, you know, you know, if if if

1009
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:21,980
people want dynamic ads, he'll help you insert

1010
00:36:21,980 --> 00:36:23,119
them. That was Todd.

1011
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,059
Well, you know, Raw voice started as an

1012
00:36:26,059 --> 00:36:26,800
ad agency.

1013
00:36:27,179 --> 00:36:30,164
That was that was, the core business, and

1014
00:36:30,625 --> 00:36:31,764
it morphed into

1015
00:36:32,545 --> 00:36:35,025
podcast services and hosting and all that stuff.

1016
00:36:35,025 --> 00:36:37,344
But, you know, Todd was very generous with

1017
00:36:37,344 --> 00:36:39,344
his time with just about everybody. I mean,

1018
00:36:39,344 --> 00:36:41,125
he didn't care if he had 20 listeners

1019
00:36:41,264 --> 00:36:42,224
or 20,000

1020
00:36:42,224 --> 00:36:44,429
listeners, you know, he would give you the

1021
00:36:44,429 --> 00:36:46,909
time you needed to understand what was going

1022
00:36:46,909 --> 00:36:48,369
on, how he thought it worked.

1023
00:36:48,989 --> 00:36:49,230
And,

1024
00:36:49,869 --> 00:36:51,389
if it was technically, he'd send it to

1025
00:36:51,389 --> 00:36:52,609
me. But, anyway.

1026
00:36:55,070 --> 00:36:56,670
Yeah. And and I think to kind of

1027
00:36:56,670 --> 00:36:57,974
dovetail off all that,

1028
00:36:58,454 --> 00:36:59,735
Adam, you're exactly correct.

1029
00:37:00,614 --> 00:37:03,195
He also had a common saying that he

1030
00:37:03,414 --> 00:37:05,894
said all the time was that podcasters need

1031
00:37:05,894 --> 00:37:06,715
to get paid.

1032
00:37:07,815 --> 00:37:09,655
So he didn't say how they were gonna

1033
00:37:09,655 --> 00:37:10,795
get paid. That's correct.

1034
00:37:11,335 --> 00:37:12,875
He told you that he was

1035
00:37:13,269 --> 00:37:15,269
podcasters needed to get paid for their time.

1036
00:37:15,269 --> 00:37:15,930
Yeah. Because

1037
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:17,690
he was held accountable

1038
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:19,349
with his own wife.

1039
00:37:19,989 --> 00:37:22,789
Back back when he started podcasting that he

1040
00:37:22,789 --> 00:37:24,890
had two years, it was like a countdown

1041
00:37:26,309 --> 00:37:27,769
that they had to make it

1042
00:37:28,215 --> 00:37:31,494
financially supporting him and them Mhmm. For him

1043
00:37:31,494 --> 00:37:33,494
to pursue it. And I think that is

1044
00:37:33,494 --> 00:37:35,434
also part of podcasting too.

1045
00:37:35,974 --> 00:37:36,474
Yeah.

1046
00:37:36,855 --> 00:37:38,155
Rocky has a good comment.

1047
00:37:39,175 --> 00:37:41,515
There Todd was the essence of radical candor.

1048
00:37:41,815 --> 00:37:42,635
One of my

1049
00:37:43,099 --> 00:37:45,340
favorite Todd stories was, when he got an

1050
00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:46,059
offer for

1051
00:37:46,460 --> 00:37:47,760
to, have Blueberry

1052
00:37:48,219 --> 00:37:50,239
acquired, bought by another company.

1053
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:51,360
And

1054
00:37:51,739 --> 00:37:54,219
so a certain person we all know remember

1055
00:37:54,219 --> 00:37:54,719
Norm.

1056
00:37:55,034 --> 00:37:55,534
And,

1057
00:37:55,914 --> 00:37:59,214
and and the, offer that was sent over

1058
00:37:59,355 --> 00:37:59,855
was,

1059
00:38:01,514 --> 00:38:03,694
little less than what Todd would have liked.

1060
00:38:03,755 --> 00:38:05,674
So we got on the phone with with

1061
00:38:05,674 --> 00:38:07,674
Norm and and said, I I got your

1062
00:38:07,674 --> 00:38:09,434
offer here. Hold on a second. And he

1063
00:38:09,434 --> 00:38:11,579
put his phone right next to the shredder

1064
00:38:11,579 --> 00:38:13,440
and put the offer through the shredder.

1065
00:38:15,019 --> 00:38:16,619
There's even more stories to that,

1066
00:38:17,259 --> 00:38:19,819
Rob, because I was there when that whole

1067
00:38:19,819 --> 00:38:22,539
thing went down. But but, yeah, he's,

1068
00:38:23,835 --> 00:38:25,755
I don't think Todd ever wanted to be

1069
00:38:25,755 --> 00:38:28,554
acquired by by podcast one for one thing.

1070
00:38:28,554 --> 00:38:29,835
So so it was one of those things.

1071
00:38:29,835 --> 00:38:30,954
And I do have a clip,

1072
00:38:31,835 --> 00:38:32,655
that I was

1073
00:38:33,355 --> 00:38:34,974
wanting to play of

1074
00:38:35,355 --> 00:38:37,019
of a of a dialogue,

1075
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,360
that happened with Norm Paddis, who's also passed

1076
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,680
away now. And he is the the founder

1077
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:43,180
of,

1078
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:45,660
Westwood One.

1079
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:46,539
Rob,

1080
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,135
you know him

1081
00:38:49,094 --> 00:38:50,474
well from the past.

1082
00:38:51,014 --> 00:38:52,934
Yep. And and so I wanted to play

1083
00:38:52,934 --> 00:38:54,454
it because what what it does is it

1084
00:38:54,454 --> 00:38:55,275
paints a picture

1085
00:38:55,574 --> 00:38:56,074
of,

1086
00:38:57,094 --> 00:38:57,914
the entrance

1087
00:38:58,215 --> 00:38:58,715
of

1088
00:39:00,730 --> 00:39:03,849
commercial radio and what what what the commercial

1089
00:39:03,849 --> 00:39:04,750
radio side

1090
00:39:05,130 --> 00:39:06,349
thought of podcasting

1091
00:39:06,650 --> 00:39:09,289
and kinda how it's how it's morphed. So,

1092
00:39:09,690 --> 00:39:10,969
let let me go ahead and play that

1093
00:39:10,969 --> 00:39:11,469
now.

1094
00:39:13,625 --> 00:39:15,625
Really excited to talk with you, Norm, about

1095
00:39:15,625 --> 00:39:17,385
what you guys got going on, you you

1096
00:39:17,385 --> 00:39:18,744
know, over at podcast one, what you guys

1097
00:39:18,744 --> 00:39:20,425
are doing. You guys are tearing things up

1098
00:39:20,425 --> 00:39:20,925
and

1099
00:39:21,385 --> 00:39:23,545
and moving fast. I I love that to

1100
00:39:23,545 --> 00:39:24,045
see,

1101
00:39:25,065 --> 00:39:26,744
see a player in a space that is

1102
00:39:26,744 --> 00:39:28,425
is motivated and and,

1103
00:39:29,429 --> 00:39:31,190
you know, I I guess we're I hate

1104
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:33,190
to say it this way, but, you know,

1105
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:35,989
breathing new fire into the space. So, you

1106
00:39:35,989 --> 00:39:37,190
know, what are what are you guys,

1107
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:39,349
I guess, first off, why don't you just

1108
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:41,130
go ahead and give everyone a little background,

1109
00:39:42,464 --> 00:39:44,304
you know, Norm about, you know, what you've

1110
00:39:44,304 --> 00:39:46,224
done in the past, and I think that

1111
00:39:46,224 --> 00:39:48,644
will kinda set the tenor here this morning.

1112
00:39:49,264 --> 00:39:50,944
Well, thanks. First of all, it's great to

1113
00:39:50,944 --> 00:39:53,025
be with, with both of you. You know,

1114
00:39:53,025 --> 00:39:53,344
I,

1115
00:39:54,050 --> 00:39:54,550
I,

1116
00:39:55,090 --> 00:39:56,130
I know you both,

1117
00:39:56,609 --> 00:39:57,670
you know, Rob,

1118
00:39:58,130 --> 00:39:58,929
you and I have,

1119
00:39:59,489 --> 00:40:00,869
have chatted a few times

1120
00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:03,590
and, Todd, I certainly know you by reputation.

1121
00:40:03,650 --> 00:40:05,489
So it's a real pleasure to be able

1122
00:40:05,489 --> 00:40:07,684
to sit down with you and chat. I

1123
00:40:08,864 --> 00:40:10,324
I started out in this business,

1124
00:40:10,785 --> 00:40:13,184
about thirty five years ago and founded a

1125
00:40:13,585 --> 00:40:15,184
I had done some things before that, but

1126
00:40:15,184 --> 00:40:17,505
I I my probably my biggest claim to

1127
00:40:17,505 --> 00:40:19,105
fame is that I founded a company called

1128
00:40:19,105 --> 00:40:20,005
Westwood One,

1129
00:40:21,550 --> 00:40:24,369
which I which I was, the, chairman,

1130
00:40:25,869 --> 00:40:27,630
the chairman of until a couple of years

1131
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:28,989
ago, and Westwood One,

1132
00:40:29,710 --> 00:40:32,449
was the largest producer and distributor of nationally

1133
00:40:32,510 --> 00:40:33,889
sponsored radio programming,

1134
00:40:34,605 --> 00:40:37,045
certainly in the nation, probably in the world.

1135
00:40:38,304 --> 00:40:38,704
We,

1136
00:40:39,105 --> 00:40:39,605
we

1137
00:40:40,065 --> 00:40:41,925
owned, managed, or distributed,

1138
00:40:42,784 --> 00:40:43,284
NBC,

1139
00:40:44,464 --> 00:40:44,964
radio,

1140
00:40:45,425 --> 00:40:46,804
CBS News, CNN,

1141
00:40:47,664 --> 00:40:49,045
plus we, provided,

1142
00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:52,679
lots and lots and lots of entertainment programming

1143
00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:54,780
in the talk genre and the music genre,

1144
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,619
you know, countdown shows,

1145
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:58,619
live concerts,

1146
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,800
you know, whatever you can imagine. And, you

1147
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,019
know, we dealt with

1148
00:41:03,704 --> 00:41:05,224
probably 50%

1149
00:41:05,224 --> 00:41:07,405
of the licensed radio stations in America.

1150
00:41:07,864 --> 00:41:08,765
It's it's no

1151
00:41:09,864 --> 00:41:10,364
coincidence

1152
00:41:11,224 --> 00:41:12,684
that our move into,

1153
00:41:13,465 --> 00:41:14,204
on demand

1154
00:41:14,505 --> 00:41:15,005
audio,

1155
00:41:15,410 --> 00:41:17,030
or as we call it podcasting,

1156
00:41:18,690 --> 00:41:21,030
that, that we created a,

1157
00:41:21,730 --> 00:41:22,550
a destination

1158
00:41:22,849 --> 00:41:23,670
and a site,

1159
00:41:24,769 --> 00:41:25,269
that,

1160
00:41:25,890 --> 00:41:27,349
that's called Podcast One

1161
00:41:27,775 --> 00:41:31,155
because the story of Westwood One's podcast one

1162
00:41:31,454 --> 00:41:33,394
is an interesting story to tell.

1163
00:41:33,775 --> 00:41:35,795
And the reason we moved in this direction

1164
00:41:35,934 --> 00:41:37,554
was because of all of the similarities

1165
00:41:37,855 --> 00:41:38,675
that I saw

1166
00:41:39,215 --> 00:41:39,715
between,

1167
00:41:40,574 --> 00:41:43,619
forming Westwood One at a time when syndicated

1168
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,859
radio shows and network radio shows

1169
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:47,219
were not really,

1170
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:49,380
very,

1171
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,719
very well thought of or even, you know,

1172
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,800
part of the overall media mix of national

1173
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:55,300
advertisers.

1174
00:41:56,465 --> 00:41:59,045
It it seemed to me that podcasting today,

1175
00:41:59,505 --> 00:42:01,265
you know, is pretty much in the place

1176
00:42:01,265 --> 00:42:03,045
where syndicated radio was,

1177
00:42:03,824 --> 00:42:05,605
when I started Westwood One,

1178
00:42:05,985 --> 00:42:08,945
which was the original reason why it, why

1179
00:42:08,945 --> 00:42:11,489
it caught my interest. We're Yeah. So I

1180
00:42:11,489 --> 00:42:13,489
think what's happening in the medium right right

1181
00:42:13,489 --> 00:42:14,710
now is is

1182
00:42:15,010 --> 00:42:16,949
we're in this transition phase,

1183
00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:18,550
in

1184
00:42:18,929 --> 00:42:21,410
what's happening in industry that kind of has

1185
00:42:21,410 --> 00:42:22,789
its roots in the past.

1186
00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:26,375
Back when podcasting started, it was a revolution,

1187
00:42:29,155 --> 00:42:30,215
really against

1188
00:42:30,515 --> 00:42:31,335
the commercialization

1189
00:42:31,795 --> 00:42:32,535
of broadcast.

1190
00:42:33,474 --> 00:42:33,974
And

1191
00:42:34,434 --> 00:42:37,059
and for a few years, it was an

1192
00:42:37,059 --> 00:42:37,880
anti commercial

1193
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:40,900
medium. I'm talking about podcasting. Mhmm. And so

1194
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:42,500
now we've kind of moved into a new

1195
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:43,480
phase where we've

1196
00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:44,280
added,

1197
00:42:45,299 --> 00:42:47,859
more commercial elements. You know, there's a lot

1198
00:42:47,859 --> 00:42:49,079
more focus on monetization

1199
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:51,799
and people making money with their podcasts and

1200
00:42:52,164 --> 00:42:56,324
programmatic advertising, which mirrors exactly what broadcast radio

1201
00:42:56,324 --> 00:42:58,085
has been done on the air for years

1202
00:42:58,085 --> 00:43:00,484
and ad loads are going up. And so

1203
00:43:00,484 --> 00:43:02,404
you can see a direct correlation. In the

1204
00:43:02,404 --> 00:43:05,284
early years, podcasting was a lot about video

1205
00:43:05,284 --> 00:43:07,829
too. So We we become what we were

1206
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:08,889
trying to avoid.

1207
00:43:09,989 --> 00:43:12,710
Exactly. And things go in full cycle. And

1208
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:13,289
I think

1209
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:16,789
Rocky Thomas made a comment in this thread

1210
00:43:16,789 --> 00:43:19,369
as well that kind of put a little

1211
00:43:19,664 --> 00:43:21,344
ribbon and bow on this that she's been

1212
00:43:21,344 --> 00:43:24,304
through. She's seen this cycle happen before with

1213
00:43:24,304 --> 00:43:28,405
streaming radio and and other types of media

1214
00:43:28,465 --> 00:43:32,144
that has tried to transition audiences into a

1215
00:43:32,144 --> 00:43:33,445
new delivery method.

1216
00:43:33,909 --> 00:43:35,750
And so that's kind of what's happened here.

1217
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:38,550
We've transitioned our audience into a new delivery

1218
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:41,510
method for content. And that's why that's why

1219
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:43,050
we've seen a lot of the big,

1220
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:45,449
studios and

1221
00:43:46,164 --> 00:43:47,144
commercial radio

1222
00:43:47,444 --> 00:43:47,944
companies

1223
00:43:48,404 --> 00:43:51,045
transition into doing more podcasting is because they

1224
00:43:51,045 --> 00:43:53,065
saw it as the future of their distribution.

1225
00:43:53,844 --> 00:43:55,924
And that's really what we're talking about here.

1226
00:43:55,924 --> 00:43:56,424
So

1227
00:43:56,804 --> 00:43:58,184
if if that's,

1228
00:43:58,550 --> 00:44:00,150
you know, if we're okay with that, my

1229
00:44:00,150 --> 00:44:02,650
question is, well, what's the next revolution

1230
00:44:03,989 --> 00:44:05,449
that we're gonna create,

1231
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:08,570
as a blowback to over commercialization

1232
00:44:08,949 --> 00:44:09,449
again?

1233
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:11,985
What's next?

1234
00:44:12,945 --> 00:44:14,805
That's a good question. I don't know.

1235
00:44:16,224 --> 00:44:16,885
Oh. Yeah.

1236
00:44:17,265 --> 00:44:18,704
Alright, everyone. Thank you for being here. We'll

1237
00:44:18,704 --> 00:44:21,265
see you next week. Thanks, Rob. And,

1238
00:44:21,985 --> 00:44:24,325
we'll see everyone here on the new media

1239
00:44:24,545 --> 00:44:26,305
show. Everyone take care. We'll see you next

1240
00:44:26,305 --> 00:44:27,929
time. Okay. Bye bye. Bye.

1241
00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:31,630
Alright.

1242
00:44:32,489 --> 00:44:34,170
So you know Todd's up there right now

1243
00:44:34,170 --> 00:44:36,170
with Norm Paddis in heaven going, just told

1244
00:44:36,170 --> 00:44:38,329
you so. I told you so. Told you

1245
00:44:38,329 --> 00:44:39,710
so. We lost,

1246
00:44:40,010 --> 00:44:42,170
Norm a couple years ago as well. You

1247
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:43,150
know? Yeah.

1248
00:44:43,855 --> 00:44:45,454
Yeah. And I worked with Norm for a

1249
00:44:45,454 --> 00:44:47,695
year down in Los Angeles. So, you know,

1250
00:44:47,695 --> 00:44:48,675
that that,

1251
00:44:49,295 --> 00:44:52,035
you know, Todd would come down and and

1252
00:44:52,335 --> 00:44:54,735
come into Norm's office, and he and I

1253
00:44:54,735 --> 00:44:57,440
and Norm would would talk about the industry

1254
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:58,819
and where it was going.

1255
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,920
And and what was really interesting about Norm's

1256
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,599
perspective is that, you know, he was the

1257
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:04,420
guy that built,

1258
00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:06,659
you know, nationally syndicated,

1259
00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:08,339
talk shows

1260
00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:10,099
on on the radio side.

1261
00:45:10,605 --> 00:45:12,545
And he could see that crossover,

1262
00:45:13,244 --> 00:45:13,744
with

1263
00:45:14,125 --> 00:45:16,684
with podcasting and wanted to do the same

1264
00:45:16,684 --> 00:45:18,385
thing he did thirty years ago,

1265
00:45:19,324 --> 00:45:20,224
with podcasting,

1266
00:45:21,085 --> 00:45:23,324
with what he did with radio. And so

1267
00:45:23,324 --> 00:45:25,724
he could see that crossover, and that's kinda

1268
00:45:25,724 --> 00:45:26,340
what we're

1269
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:29,780
we've seen happen over the years. And I

1270
00:45:29,780 --> 00:45:30,980
don't know if, Rob, if you want to

1271
00:45:30,980 --> 00:45:33,400
talk about that and and, you know, the

1272
00:45:33,780 --> 00:45:36,760
Todd's feeling and also about the the entrance

1273
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:37,400
of

1274
00:45:37,940 --> 00:45:38,680
of radio,

1275
00:45:39,219 --> 00:45:41,300
into the podcasting space and how they've done

1276
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:41,880
it and

1277
00:45:42,215 --> 00:45:43,594
and what the implications

1278
00:45:44,135 --> 00:45:44,795
of that,

1279
00:45:45,494 --> 00:45:47,735
are. I don't know. You know? It's open

1280
00:45:47,735 --> 00:45:49,515
to all three of you guys. Yeah.

1281
00:45:49,974 --> 00:45:52,054
My conversations with Dato that, you know, we

1282
00:45:52,054 --> 00:45:52,855
were always like,

1283
00:45:53,574 --> 00:45:55,815
you know, just repurpose content. We were like,

1284
00:45:55,815 --> 00:45:57,929
but it is what it is. You know,

1285
00:45:57,929 --> 00:46:00,809
we were he was always open to anyone

1286
00:46:00,809 --> 00:46:02,409
come in. Didn't mean he had to he

1287
00:46:02,409 --> 00:46:03,389
had to like it,

1288
00:46:04,409 --> 00:46:05,230
the the content.

1289
00:46:05,610 --> 00:46:06,989
But he felt, you know,

1290
00:46:07,369 --> 00:46:09,550
strongly that anyone should have a voice.

1291
00:46:10,125 --> 00:46:11,724
Yeah. You know? And and I remember a

1292
00:46:11,724 --> 00:46:13,965
quote I heard from someone at NPR once

1293
00:46:13,965 --> 00:46:14,465
was,

1294
00:46:15,005 --> 00:46:16,304
NPR was created,

1295
00:46:17,565 --> 00:46:19,565
so that anyone could have a voice. And

1296
00:46:19,565 --> 00:46:21,405
then podcasting came along and said, well, we

1297
00:46:21,405 --> 00:46:22,385
didn't mean everyone.

1298
00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:24,840
So,

1299
00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:26,522
you know, and,

1300
00:46:26,942 --> 00:46:30,306
but I think podcasting has always been welcoming,

1301
00:46:30,306 --> 00:46:33,670
and Todd has been a big part of

1302
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:34,090
that,

1303
00:46:34,510 --> 00:46:37,874
welcoming anyone in. He was going out finding

1304
00:46:37,874 --> 00:46:38,295
businesses,

1305
00:46:39,014 --> 00:46:41,734
going to different conferences. What's ADM is the

1306
00:46:41,734 --> 00:46:43,815
one conference you go to, which is and

1307
00:46:43,815 --> 00:46:45,674
just for people to do internal

1308
00:46:46,534 --> 00:46:47,034
podcasts

1309
00:46:47,494 --> 00:46:47,994
for

1310
00:46:48,614 --> 00:46:49,594
training their,

1311
00:46:50,855 --> 00:46:53,989
marketing team. You know, it's the RSS

1312
00:46:54,610 --> 00:46:55,430
has so many

1313
00:46:56,130 --> 00:46:59,170
powerful uses, and Todd understood that and that

1314
00:46:59,170 --> 00:47:00,869
that RSS was at the hub

1315
00:47:01,170 --> 00:47:02,690
and the heart of all of what we

1316
00:47:02,690 --> 00:47:03,190
do,

1317
00:47:03,730 --> 00:47:05,489
and to stay and and he had the

1318
00:47:05,489 --> 00:47:07,445
fear like, I have the fear, you don't

1319
00:47:07,445 --> 00:47:09,545
wanna have too many closed walled gardens.

1320
00:47:10,005 --> 00:47:10,405
Right?

1321
00:47:10,885 --> 00:47:12,405
As we have out there,

1322
00:47:12,804 --> 00:47:14,565
more and more of these walled gardens popping

1323
00:47:14,565 --> 00:47:16,164
up. I think you talked about it. It

1324
00:47:16,164 --> 00:47:17,684
was in our I think it was maybe

1325
00:47:17,684 --> 00:47:19,469
on the last show you guys talked a

1326
00:47:19,469 --> 00:47:20,309
little bit about,

1327
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:22,549
the walled garden issue,

1328
00:47:22,949 --> 00:47:23,849
Oh, yeah. Spotify

1329
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:25,049
and that.

1330
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:25,849
So,

1331
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:29,849
making it open and for everyone,

1332
00:47:30,469 --> 00:47:31,369
and and

1333
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:32,170
legitimately

1334
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:34,355
meaning it, not like NPR where it's like,

1335
00:47:34,355 --> 00:47:35,174
oh, no. Not

1336
00:47:36,034 --> 00:47:37,734
everyone. Uh-huh. Everyone's we want.

1337
00:47:40,355 --> 00:47:41,974
So any other comments on

1338
00:47:42,275 --> 00:47:43,094
that clip?

1339
00:47:44,674 --> 00:47:47,030
Well, it just shows, you know, that

1340
00:47:47,329 --> 00:47:49,489
even when he had a high profile guest

1341
00:47:49,489 --> 00:47:51,730
on, there was always technical things that he

1342
00:47:51,809 --> 00:47:53,489
Yeah. Do you guys see his Mac wanna

1343
00:47:53,489 --> 00:47:54,630
update during that?

1344
00:47:56,769 --> 00:47:58,369
Yeah. That's why I like that clip so

1345
00:47:58,369 --> 00:47:59,910
much because it That's so odd.

1346
00:48:01,014 --> 00:48:02,554
It really showed the

1347
00:48:03,414 --> 00:48:05,494
the the desire on our part,

1348
00:48:05,894 --> 00:48:08,054
with this show to kinda push the envelope

1349
00:48:08,054 --> 00:48:10,635
and kinda go into areas that maybe,

1350
00:48:11,815 --> 00:48:12,869
were pushing the envelope.

1351
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:15,110
Because that clip that I played for you

1352
00:48:15,110 --> 00:48:16,710
was an episode that we did back in

1353
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:17,530
2013.

1354
00:48:18,789 --> 00:48:21,530
So, you know, this this show started

1355
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:24,789
as the Saturday morning tech show, and we

1356
00:48:24,789 --> 00:48:26,150
did that for a couple of years. I

1357
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:26,809
was just

1358
00:48:27,344 --> 00:48:30,324
occasional guest on the Saturday morning tech show.

1359
00:48:30,625 --> 00:48:32,565
And then, I made a suggestion

1360
00:48:32,864 --> 00:48:34,625
at some point, probably a year into it,

1361
00:48:34,625 --> 00:48:35,844
that we changed the name

1362
00:48:36,625 --> 00:48:37,125
to

1363
00:48:37,744 --> 00:48:39,824
the new media show because that's all we're

1364
00:48:39,824 --> 00:48:40,724
talking about. Why?

1365
00:48:41,425 --> 00:48:43,609
What's that? You did it mid episode.

1366
00:48:44,389 --> 00:48:45,210
Yeah. Right.

1367
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:47,049
And Todd actually

1368
00:48:47,429 --> 00:48:49,829
registered the domain name and got it set

1369
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:52,170
up, probably before the episode was over.

1370
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:54,329
I would say

1371
00:48:55,235 --> 00:48:56,994
I don't know exactly the history of it,

1372
00:48:56,994 --> 00:48:58,135
but I always admired,

1373
00:48:58,675 --> 00:49:01,815
Blueberry and subsequently Todd for pow PowerPress

1374
00:49:02,594 --> 00:49:04,994
for the WordPress plugin. Talked about that. Because

1375
00:49:04,994 --> 00:49:08,054
what's so cool about that is, like, hey.

1376
00:49:08,114 --> 00:49:10,614
Here's how you can create an RSS feed.

1377
00:49:10,820 --> 00:49:13,139
You can create a podcast feed. If you

1378
00:49:13,139 --> 00:49:14,900
want to, you can connect it to Blueberry,

1379
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:17,239
but you don't have to. I always thought

1380
00:49:17,780 --> 00:49:19,860
that was one of the most beautiful gifts

1381
00:49:19,860 --> 00:49:21,780
of podcasting. Yeah. We always wanted it to

1382
00:49:21,780 --> 00:49:24,714
be hosting agnostic. You know? Yes. Where wherever

1383
00:49:24,714 --> 00:49:26,394
the wherever you can find a spot for

1384
00:49:26,394 --> 00:49:27,695
your file, it'll work.

1385
00:49:28,155 --> 00:49:30,894
I always love that. Well, that's an unusual

1386
00:49:31,034 --> 00:49:31,534
approach.

1387
00:49:32,635 --> 00:49:34,394
Great approach. I I think it worked. I

1388
00:49:34,394 --> 00:49:35,994
think it worked well for Blueberry, and I

1389
00:49:36,074 --> 00:49:36,795
and it it,

1390
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:38,840
to this day, I mean, it's I have

1391
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,380
friends who still use PowerPress.

1392
00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:43,960
Yeah. Yeah. And, we're not planning on slowing

1393
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,780
down. We'll, we'll keep it alive here. Good.

1394
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,360
Very good. Well, in a lot of the

1395
00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:50,119
I mean, I don't know that a lot

1396
00:49:50,119 --> 00:49:52,005
of people realize this, but I I think

1397
00:49:52,005 --> 00:49:54,005
it was, like, a quarter. I don't know

1398
00:49:54,005 --> 00:49:56,085
if, Rob or or Mike, if you can

1399
00:49:56,085 --> 00:49:57,704
jump in on us a quarter or

1400
00:49:58,644 --> 00:50:01,045
a third of all of the RSS feeds

1401
00:50:01,045 --> 00:50:03,719
out there are actually self hosted. They're not,

1402
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:05,960
I don't know if that number is dropped

1403
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,199
or not. Yeah. I'm not sure either, but,

1404
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:09,880
I know

1405
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:12,359
take out the portion of the good portion

1406
00:50:12,359 --> 00:50:13,239
of the web is,

1407
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,880
is par or WordPress based. So

1408
00:50:16,784 --> 00:50:18,784
you know, that I talked to, you know,

1409
00:50:18,784 --> 00:50:20,864
new new people into podcast, and then I

1410
00:50:20,864 --> 00:50:22,304
said, well, do you have a WordPress site?

1411
00:50:22,304 --> 00:50:23,364
Well, here you go.

1412
00:50:23,824 --> 00:50:26,144
And and, that's always been a, you know,

1413
00:50:26,144 --> 00:50:28,385
a great thing whether they hosted with us

1414
00:50:28,385 --> 00:50:29,844
or not. It was

1415
00:50:30,289 --> 00:50:31,730
just something we wanted to give back to

1416
00:50:31,730 --> 00:50:33,730
the community, and we were all behind it

1417
00:50:33,730 --> 00:50:35,809
at the time. You know, Angelo came up

1418
00:50:35,809 --> 00:50:37,269
with PowerPress and

1419
00:50:37,969 --> 00:50:38,130
and,

1420
00:50:39,329 --> 00:50:42,449
and, since the the other plugin for WordPress

1421
00:50:42,449 --> 00:50:45,010
got abandoned, that was the Genesis story of

1422
00:50:45,010 --> 00:50:45,510
that.

1423
00:50:46,585 --> 00:50:47,085
Yeah.

1424
00:50:48,105 --> 00:50:49,864
Yeah. Yeah. And I know, Adam, in the

1425
00:50:49,864 --> 00:50:50,684
early years,

1426
00:50:50,985 --> 00:50:51,724
you created

1427
00:50:52,265 --> 00:50:55,224
the software to enable podcasting to to happen.

1428
00:50:55,224 --> 00:50:55,724
And

1429
00:50:56,265 --> 00:50:58,045
and I don't know if you wanna share

1430
00:50:58,425 --> 00:50:59,805
a little bit about that

1431
00:51:00,230 --> 00:51:01,369
that path and

1432
00:51:01,670 --> 00:51:02,650
your work with,

1433
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:06,630
software and kinda getting this medium started. Well,

1434
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:08,650
creating software is a big statement.

1435
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:13,369
Stringing Apple strips script together with help from

1436
00:51:14,164 --> 00:51:16,164
with help from other people is more like

1437
00:51:16,164 --> 00:51:16,565
it.

1438
00:51:17,364 --> 00:51:19,525
That's why I started The Daily Source Code

1439
00:51:19,525 --> 00:51:22,085
is because there was a concept, I had

1440
00:51:22,085 --> 00:51:23,864
it working, it worked at my house.

1441
00:51:25,125 --> 00:51:27,159
You know, this this little, I think I

1442
00:51:27,159 --> 00:51:28,940
called it iPotter script,

1443
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,039
would look for a new episode in a

1444
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:33,639
feed. I think it was just one at

1445
00:51:33,639 --> 00:51:34,300
the time.

1446
00:51:34,599 --> 00:51:35,099
And,

1447
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,480
I think I was able to expand it

1448
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,704
to more than one later, but it, you

1449
00:51:39,704 --> 00:51:41,785
know, would detect a new episode, download it

1450
00:51:41,785 --> 00:51:44,265
to my computer, sync the iPad. We still

1451
00:51:44,265 --> 00:51:46,425
had to have our iPad synced to iTunes

1452
00:51:46,425 --> 00:51:48,505
at the time, and success. There it was.

1453
00:51:48,505 --> 00:51:50,025
You know? So I just always saw the

1454
00:51:50,025 --> 00:51:52,505
iPad as a transistor radio. It had kind

1455
00:51:52,505 --> 00:51:54,285
of the same format and dimensions.

1456
00:51:54,699 --> 00:51:56,880
And so the daily source code was literally

1457
00:51:57,260 --> 00:51:58,800
to attract software developers,

1458
00:51:59,099 --> 00:52:01,440
thinking, you know, you work in source code.

1459
00:52:01,739 --> 00:52:03,500
We need source code. I'm a do this

1460
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:05,500
daily. The only reason I did that is

1461
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:08,140
so that the software developers would have something

1462
00:52:08,140 --> 00:52:09,280
to develop against.

1463
00:52:10,055 --> 00:52:11,894
And, you know, we we learned some of

1464
00:52:11,894 --> 00:52:13,974
the early things crazy enough. Not a good

1465
00:52:13,974 --> 00:52:16,535
idea when you first subscribe to a show

1466
00:52:16,535 --> 00:52:18,215
when half the world or more than half

1467
00:52:18,215 --> 00:52:20,215
the world was on dial up. Not a

1468
00:52:20,215 --> 00:52:22,954
good idea to immediately download all the episodes

1469
00:52:23,015 --> 00:52:24,929
in the feed. I mean, that's literally the

1470
00:52:25,089 --> 00:52:27,809
literally the kind of things we, we discovered

1471
00:52:27,809 --> 00:52:29,030
in those early days.

1472
00:52:30,050 --> 00:52:32,769
So, you know, tinkering around is is more

1473
00:52:32,769 --> 00:52:35,089
like it. The daily source code was my

1474
00:52:35,089 --> 00:52:37,489
source code. I would, I would get a

1475
00:52:37,489 --> 00:52:39,375
copy of your feed and then fix, you

1476
00:52:39,375 --> 00:52:41,235
know, change it to all my stuff and

1477
00:52:41,375 --> 00:52:43,054
upload it to the web. How did you

1478
00:52:43,054 --> 00:52:44,675
do this? Fix this bit. Fix

1479
00:52:45,454 --> 00:52:46,434
yes. Indeed.

1480
00:52:47,054 --> 00:52:48,974
Yeah. Yeah. And back back in those days,

1481
00:52:48,974 --> 00:52:50,974
you you couldn't really for the same reasons,

1482
00:52:50,974 --> 00:52:52,735
Adam, you you really couldn't make your media

1483
00:52:52,735 --> 00:52:55,780
file too, too heavy. Right? As far as

1484
00:52:55,780 --> 00:52:57,460
it's it's bit rate. I know I put

1485
00:52:57,460 --> 00:52:59,219
out a lot of my episodes back in

1486
00:52:59,219 --> 00:53:01,859
those days at like 23 ks or something

1487
00:53:01,859 --> 00:53:03,460
like that. Back in the day, I when

1488
00:53:03,460 --> 00:53:05,300
we were doing this, I literally had a

1489
00:53:05,300 --> 00:53:06,980
Mac and I was using, I think it

1490
00:53:06,980 --> 00:53:08,359
was called Mac drive,

1491
00:53:08,735 --> 00:53:10,655
and it kind of mounted on your on

1492
00:53:10,655 --> 00:53:12,894
your desktop. It just looked like a drive

1493
00:53:12,894 --> 00:53:15,454
and you could store stuff in there. And

1494
00:53:15,454 --> 00:53:17,394
I was just putting my files in there

1495
00:53:17,695 --> 00:53:19,775
and pointing to that. And I heard later

1496
00:53:19,775 --> 00:53:20,914
from Steve Jobs

1497
00:53:21,454 --> 00:53:23,635
that they noticed all this bandwidth,

1498
00:53:24,159 --> 00:53:24,900
you know,

1499
00:53:25,679 --> 00:53:27,360
going out and they were trying to figure

1500
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,639
it out. This is what he told me,

1501
00:53:28,639 --> 00:53:30,019
so I'm gonna believe it.

1502
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:33,199
And, you know, he said, well, what And

1503
00:53:33,199 --> 00:53:34,880
it got to him somehow and it's like,

1504
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,400
well, what are they doing with all this

1505
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,855
bandwidth? And said, well, they're working on this

1506
00:53:38,855 --> 00:53:40,855
podcasting thing. I don't know if it had

1507
00:53:40,855 --> 00:53:41,675
the name then.

1508
00:53:42,054 --> 00:53:44,614
And, you know, they were thinking about maybe

1509
00:53:44,614 --> 00:53:47,014
shutting that down. And according to Steve Jobs,

1510
00:53:47,014 --> 00:53:49,014
he said, no, no, no. Let's just give

1511
00:53:49,014 --> 00:53:50,714
him what he needs. Let's see what happens.

1512
00:53:51,260 --> 00:53:53,980
And so I think that's what later led

1513
00:53:53,980 --> 00:53:55,659
to a call to come and talk about

1514
00:53:55,659 --> 00:53:57,440
putting podcasting into iTunes.

1515
00:53:58,219 --> 00:53:58,719
Yeah.

1516
00:53:59,099 --> 00:54:01,199
And also another story that involves,

1517
00:54:01,819 --> 00:54:02,639
Steve Jobs,

1518
00:54:02,940 --> 00:54:04,400
in a connection with Todd

1519
00:54:05,074 --> 00:54:07,894
is, you know, Todd's Geek News Central podcast,

1520
00:54:08,994 --> 00:54:11,795
would occasionally give, you know, his opinion on

1521
00:54:11,795 --> 00:54:14,514
hardware and devices and and tech and things

1522
00:54:14,514 --> 00:54:15,654
like that. On occasion.

1523
00:54:15,954 --> 00:54:16,514
How about

1524
00:54:17,074 --> 00:54:18,534
On occasion. Right. Yeah.

1525
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:22,280
And he gave some feedback on a on

1526
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,660
a new Mac that he bought,

1527
00:54:24,039 --> 00:54:26,840
on his podcast. And somehow Steve Jobs heard

1528
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:27,820
about it and

1529
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:29,500
had his assistant,

1530
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,140
Steve Jobs, actual

1531
00:54:32,655 --> 00:54:34,114
assistant, call Todd

1532
00:54:34,815 --> 00:54:36,255
and tell Todd that,

1533
00:54:36,894 --> 00:54:38,735
Steve Jobs is on the line. Would you

1534
00:54:38,735 --> 00:54:39,954
like to talk to him?

1535
00:54:40,574 --> 00:54:42,815
And so Todd got on the phone with

1536
00:54:42,815 --> 00:54:44,815
Steve Jobs. They called him because of the

1537
00:54:44,815 --> 00:54:46,750
the reach and the impact of his Geek

1538
00:54:46,750 --> 00:54:48,930
News Central podcast. And Yeah. That's awesome.

1539
00:54:49,470 --> 00:54:52,269
Yeah. And and Steve wound up sending him

1540
00:54:52,269 --> 00:54:54,369
a a new Mac because of that conversation.

1541
00:54:55,230 --> 00:54:56,910
Oh, I never got that out of Steve

1542
00:54:56,910 --> 00:54:58,530
Jobs. Man, I got screwed.

1543
00:54:59,795 --> 00:55:02,375
I I I guess they they delivered it

1544
00:55:02,835 --> 00:55:05,715
to Apple store or whatever in Honolulu, and

1545
00:55:05,715 --> 00:55:07,155
Todd went in there. And it was like

1546
00:55:07,155 --> 00:55:08,215
the seas parted,

1547
00:55:08,675 --> 00:55:10,515
and all the employees were staring out. Who's

1548
00:55:10,515 --> 00:55:12,914
this guy? He got a computer from Steve.

1549
00:55:12,914 --> 00:55:13,075
So

1550
00:55:13,954 --> 00:55:16,180
Yeah. I mean, it's an impressive story, but

1551
00:55:16,180 --> 00:55:17,640
it's Yeah. It's very,

1552
00:55:19,380 --> 00:55:22,099
it's very much a part of that that

1553
00:55:22,099 --> 00:55:24,660
Lord that that is now Todd Cochran. You

1554
00:55:24,660 --> 00:55:25,400
know, he's

1555
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:28,280
he had that kinda impact with his podcast,

1556
00:55:28,340 --> 00:55:28,840
and

1557
00:55:29,285 --> 00:55:31,045
and he was the only one that I've

1558
00:55:31,045 --> 00:55:32,724
ever heard of that had a twenty year

1559
00:55:32,724 --> 00:55:33,224
advertiser,

1560
00:55:34,164 --> 00:55:36,485
that stayed with him from 2005

1561
00:55:36,485 --> 00:55:39,605
to, you know, just this last week, as

1562
00:55:39,605 --> 00:55:40,885
a sponsor of a show. And that was

1563
00:55:40,885 --> 00:55:41,385
GoDaddy.

1564
00:55:41,820 --> 00:55:44,539
The king of GoDaddy, Todd Cochran, was definitely

1565
00:55:44,539 --> 00:55:46,140
the king of the codes. King of the

1566
00:55:46,140 --> 00:55:48,960
codes. There you go. Right. Yeah. And

1567
00:55:49,340 --> 00:55:51,739
and that is so unusual. It just it

1568
00:55:51,820 --> 00:55:53,820
it's also because he was able to build

1569
00:55:53,820 --> 00:55:57,074
this ecosystem around his discount codes. Yeah. But,

1570
00:55:57,074 --> 00:55:59,394
you know, the the whole GoDaddy thing was,

1571
00:55:59,715 --> 00:56:01,574
it was the reason Ravoy started,

1572
00:56:01,954 --> 00:56:03,554
GoDaddy calling us. So do you know any

1573
00:56:03,554 --> 00:56:05,734
other podcasters that might wanna advertise?

1574
00:56:06,034 --> 00:56:07,574
This is working so good.

1575
00:56:07,875 --> 00:56:10,034
And, so he got on his show and

1576
00:56:10,034 --> 00:56:10,534
said,

1577
00:56:10,900 --> 00:56:12,260
you know, I need a lawyer. I need

1578
00:56:12,260 --> 00:56:13,559
a biz dev guy,

1579
00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:16,280
marketer, whatever. And

1580
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:19,000
that's how that company formed.

1581
00:56:19,699 --> 00:56:21,460
And, you know, they didn't even meet each

1582
00:56:21,460 --> 00:56:24,579
other until that first, portable media expo out

1583
00:56:24,579 --> 00:56:25,239
in Ontario.

1584
00:56:26,605 --> 00:56:28,364
You know, but the company had been going

1585
00:56:28,364 --> 00:56:29,985
for six months or whatever.

1586
00:56:30,364 --> 00:56:32,945
We're coming up on twenty years, but, Blueberry,

1587
00:56:33,244 --> 00:56:34,215
the September

1588
00:56:34,215 --> 00:56:35,025
27.

1589
00:56:36,844 --> 00:56:38,684
Yeah. Mike, why don't you share a little

1590
00:56:38,684 --> 00:56:39,885
bit? I don't know if, Rob, if you

1591
00:56:39,885 --> 00:56:42,119
know know the story a little bit about

1592
00:56:42,119 --> 00:56:42,619
the

1593
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:44,280
the beginnings of,

1594
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,739
Raw Voice and Blueberry. I know it was

1595
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:48,859
very much a grassroots

1596
00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:52,440
funded startup that he created and and was

1597
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,065
really the heart and soul of this, but

1598
00:56:54,065 --> 00:56:55,744
I know he also had a lot of

1599
00:56:55,744 --> 00:56:56,244
loyal

1600
00:56:56,704 --> 00:56:58,164
friends that he had created,

1601
00:56:58,625 --> 00:56:59,125
around,

1602
00:56:59,985 --> 00:57:01,045
creating that company.

1603
00:57:01,425 --> 00:57:04,065
Yeah. Well, initially, we were gonna have multiple

1604
00:57:04,065 --> 00:57:04,565
verticals,

1605
00:57:05,265 --> 00:57:07,364
you know, Blueberry being a community

1606
00:57:07,664 --> 00:57:07,825
and,

1607
00:57:09,119 --> 00:57:12,239
tech podcast was part of that. And we

1608
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,079
we we still have the domain, but we

1609
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:16,880
had, raspberry with no no e's. I don't

1610
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:18,480
know what that was gonna ever be used

1611
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:18,980
for.

1612
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:20,339
That's completely

1613
00:57:20,639 --> 00:57:21,139
different

1614
00:57:21,574 --> 00:57:23,414
tech device. Right? Yeah. I was just going

1615
00:57:23,414 --> 00:57:25,494
through all the domain names on the list

1616
00:57:25,494 --> 00:57:28,074
and there's some fun ones in there, but,

1617
00:57:29,734 --> 00:57:32,134
but, yeah, that's, that's how it started. And

1618
00:57:32,134 --> 00:57:33,974
then, you know, at some point along the

1619
00:57:33,974 --> 00:57:35,654
way we decided we wanted to get into

1620
00:57:35,654 --> 00:57:36,154
hosting

1621
00:57:36,909 --> 00:57:39,309
and that's where we decided, well, blueberry be

1622
00:57:39,309 --> 00:57:41,230
good. You know, the current company name would

1623
00:57:41,230 --> 00:57:42,449
have probably been better

1624
00:57:42,989 --> 00:57:45,170
for a hosting company, raw voice.

1625
00:57:45,469 --> 00:57:45,789
But,

1626
00:57:46,750 --> 00:57:48,670
I always thought that that was a terrific

1627
00:57:48,670 --> 00:57:49,170
name.

1628
00:57:50,304 --> 00:57:52,625
So I was surprised when when he chose

1629
00:57:52,625 --> 00:57:55,184
the name blueberry, actually. Right. Right. And that,

1630
00:57:55,585 --> 00:57:58,704
that stemmed from his parents were in the,

1631
00:57:58,945 --> 00:57:59,844
fruit distribution

1632
00:58:00,304 --> 00:58:00,784
business.

1633
00:58:01,105 --> 00:58:03,425
You know, blueberries, raspberries, all the stuff that's

1634
00:58:03,425 --> 00:58:04,804
grown in Southern Michigan.

1635
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:05,880
And,

1636
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,519
so and then, of course, Rob Royce, the

1637
00:58:08,599 --> 00:58:10,199
if you look at the logo for that,

1638
00:58:10,199 --> 00:58:11,099
it's a carrot.

1639
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,019
Fresh organic media

1640
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,019
was the tagline.

1641
00:58:17,079 --> 00:58:18,839
Yeah. I mean, it's a very,

1642
00:58:20,594 --> 00:58:22,675
interesting time for for the company. I know

1643
00:58:22,675 --> 00:58:23,655
a lot of the

1644
00:58:25,394 --> 00:58:27,074
the board and a lot of the people

1645
00:58:27,074 --> 00:58:29,014
that joined him in building that

1646
00:58:29,315 --> 00:58:29,815
that

1647
00:58:30,275 --> 00:58:30,775
platform.

1648
00:58:32,675 --> 00:58:34,375
He built around building friendships

1649
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:36,889
with people that were, you know,

1650
00:58:37,590 --> 00:58:39,530
connected to his network and

1651
00:58:39,909 --> 00:58:43,030
and just were attracted to him in a

1652
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:44,010
significant way

1653
00:58:44,469 --> 00:58:46,469
to want to contribute. And and a lot

1654
00:58:46,469 --> 00:58:49,530
of the founding people of of that company,

1655
00:58:50,684 --> 00:58:52,925
contributed a small amount of money themselves to

1656
00:58:52,925 --> 00:58:55,485
help Oh, yeah. The fund. There was a

1657
00:58:55,485 --> 00:58:57,265
a bootstrap thing, you know,

1658
00:58:58,045 --> 00:58:59,085
invested a little and,

1659
00:59:00,125 --> 00:59:02,605
and, yeah, it's been working out. You know,

1660
00:59:02,605 --> 00:59:05,070
we've had team members come and go and

1661
00:59:05,309 --> 00:59:06,190
all that, but,

1662
00:59:06,829 --> 00:59:08,750
you know, the core group is still there

1663
00:59:08,750 --> 00:59:09,250
mostly,

1664
00:59:10,989 --> 00:59:11,230
the,

1665
00:59:13,070 --> 00:59:14,910
it was just, you know, one of those

1666
00:59:14,910 --> 00:59:16,829
things that grew out of nothing. I mean,

1667
00:59:16,829 --> 00:59:18,769
everybody was part time for

1668
00:59:19,605 --> 00:59:21,764
a long time. I mean, Todd never came

1669
00:59:21,764 --> 00:59:22,985
on full time until

1670
00:59:23,605 --> 00:59:24,405
2015

1671
00:59:24,405 --> 00:59:25,465
or 2016,

1672
00:59:25,525 --> 00:59:26,585
something like that.

1673
00:59:27,684 --> 00:59:30,425
Maybe even later than that. You know, I've,

1674
00:59:30,565 --> 00:59:32,824
I've been on full time since 2015

1675
00:59:32,885 --> 00:59:34,505
part time before that.

1676
00:59:35,119 --> 00:59:36,800
And, you know, we all had jobs and,

1677
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:38,820
you know, we do this on the side.

1678
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,840
Yeah. Well, Todd Todd was like that for

1679
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,860
many years in the early years where he

1680
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:44,980
he was still

1681
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:46,640
employed by the Navy,

1682
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:47,860
as a

1683
00:59:48,375 --> 00:59:49,275
as a serviceman

1684
00:59:49,735 --> 00:59:51,835
or as a contractor. Civilian

1685
00:59:52,375 --> 00:59:53,514
there for a while.

1686
00:59:54,295 --> 00:59:56,315
Yep. USA or whatever. But,

1687
00:59:57,175 --> 00:59:57,994
yeah. So

1688
00:59:58,375 --> 01:00:00,054
when he moved to Michigan's when he went

1689
01:00:00,054 --> 01:00:00,695
full time, I

1690
01:00:01,574 --> 01:00:03,275
I'm not sure what year that was.

1691
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:04,900
Yeah.

1692
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,320
It wasn't that long ago. No. So was

1693
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,400
it, like, maybe three year? Three or four

1694
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,719
maybe about four years ago, he moved from

1695
01:00:12,719 --> 01:00:14,579
Hawaii because that's where he was,

1696
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,140
where he raised his family and and had

1697
01:00:20,244 --> 01:00:22,425
had a connection to the naval base there.

1698
01:00:22,804 --> 01:00:23,304
So,

1699
01:00:24,565 --> 01:00:26,085
that's kind of back in the time frame

1700
01:00:26,085 --> 01:00:27,525
when I got to know Todd. Is it

1701
01:00:27,684 --> 01:00:29,684
you know, I was living on the West

1702
01:00:29,684 --> 01:00:30,425
Coast and

1703
01:00:30,804 --> 01:00:32,324
up in the Seattle, and he was in

1704
01:00:32,324 --> 01:00:34,539
Hawaii. So it was always, you know, doing

1705
01:00:34,539 --> 01:00:36,940
these shows at 11:00 in the morning was

1706
01:00:36,940 --> 01:00:38,799
like Todd had to get up at like,

1707
01:00:39,099 --> 01:00:39,699
you know,

1708
01:00:40,139 --> 01:00:41,739
eight in the morning or something like that

1709
01:00:41,739 --> 01:00:43,019
to be able to do the show. Oh,

1710
01:00:43,019 --> 01:00:44,780
that Saturday morning show. I think he was

1711
01:00:44,780 --> 01:00:47,184
up at six. Oh, I know. But he

1712
01:00:47,184 --> 01:00:48,224
was an early riser,

1713
01:00:48,864 --> 01:00:52,065
mostly anyway. So but yeah. I mean and

1714
01:00:52,065 --> 01:00:53,284
then during COVID,

1715
01:00:53,664 --> 01:00:55,664
we did this show twice a week.

1716
01:00:56,784 --> 01:00:57,284
So

1717
01:00:57,824 --> 01:00:59,744
and then then we kinda got burned out

1718
01:00:59,744 --> 01:01:01,364
of doing that twice a week

1719
01:01:02,065 --> 01:01:04,780
and and scaled it back again to

1720
01:01:05,719 --> 01:01:07,480
to once a week. And that seemed to

1721
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,219
work better with Todd's increasingly busy schedule.

1722
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,219
Well, he was recording

1723
01:01:12,519 --> 01:01:13,420
at one time

1724
01:01:13,719 --> 01:01:15,320
when you guys were doing two a week

1725
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,000
and we were doing two a week of

1726
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,139
podcast insider.

1727
01:01:18,815 --> 01:01:20,494
Plus he had some other show he was

1728
01:01:20,494 --> 01:01:22,335
doing at the time. I forget. But he

1729
01:01:22,335 --> 01:01:24,815
was, like, recording every day, sometimes twice a

1730
01:01:24,815 --> 01:01:25,315
day.

1731
01:01:25,855 --> 01:01:26,355
Yeah.

1732
01:01:26,735 --> 01:01:28,335
Yes. We never really gave up,

1733
01:01:29,135 --> 01:01:31,394
at all to any degree his podcaster,

1734
01:01:32,940 --> 01:01:35,339
kind of hat of sorts, where a lot

1735
01:01:35,339 --> 01:01:36,480
of people in the industry

1736
01:01:36,780 --> 01:01:38,940
over the last few years have I mean,

1737
01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:40,460
a lot of the people that lead companies

1738
01:01:40,460 --> 01:01:43,019
and and do things in the medium are

1739
01:01:43,019 --> 01:01:44,480
not podcasters themselves.

1740
01:01:44,994 --> 01:01:46,295
Yeah. We still have,

1741
01:01:46,994 --> 01:01:49,954
I wanna say, five podcasters on the team

1742
01:01:49,954 --> 01:01:52,775
that have all been podcasting over twenty years

1743
01:01:53,315 --> 01:01:55,414
Mhmm. So that are still at it.

1744
01:01:57,074 --> 01:01:59,469
So before we kinda wrap this up, I

1745
01:01:59,469 --> 01:02:01,230
was hoping not to go too much beyond

1746
01:02:01,230 --> 01:02:03,630
an hour, but, I don't know. Adam, if

1747
01:02:03,630 --> 01:02:05,489
you wanna give any final thoughts,

1748
01:02:07,070 --> 01:02:07,789
on your

1749
01:02:09,230 --> 01:02:11,550
my final thoughts are I just pray for

1750
01:02:11,550 --> 01:02:13,570
his family, for all of his friends.

1751
01:02:13,934 --> 01:02:15,155
I mourn with them.

1752
01:02:16,574 --> 01:02:18,835
I pray for Todd every single day,

1753
01:02:20,255 --> 01:02:21,315
and thank him,

1754
01:02:21,775 --> 01:02:23,375
for what he was able to do while

1755
01:02:23,375 --> 01:02:24,515
he was here with us.

1756
01:02:24,815 --> 01:02:27,074
And the same goes, of course, for Blueberry

1757
01:02:27,135 --> 01:02:29,190
and all the people who were,

1758
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:32,650
affected by him, who were motivated by him,

1759
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:33,590
and,

1760
01:02:33,909 --> 01:02:35,929
may he long live in our memories.

1761
01:02:37,269 --> 01:02:38,489
Yeah. I think he will.

1762
01:02:38,869 --> 01:02:40,949
Definitely gonna live in mine. Rob, do you

1763
01:02:40,949 --> 01:02:42,170
have any final thoughts?

1764
01:02:42,965 --> 01:02:43,284
Yeah.

1765
01:02:44,085 --> 01:02:46,405
You know, some knew Todd and I only

1766
01:02:46,405 --> 01:02:48,965
as competitors, but I knew Todd pretty much

1767
01:02:48,965 --> 01:02:50,344
as a friend. Yeah.

1768
01:02:51,284 --> 01:02:52,264
You know, and

1769
01:02:52,724 --> 01:02:54,664
he he was always willing to talk,

1770
01:02:55,125 --> 01:02:57,704
and we always talked to every show.

1771
01:02:59,710 --> 01:03:01,329
And going to a show

1772
01:03:01,869 --> 01:03:04,590
where Blueberry's at and Todd not being there

1773
01:03:04,590 --> 01:03:06,769
the next time is really gonna hit home.

1774
01:03:09,150 --> 01:03:09,809
You know,

1775
01:03:10,855 --> 01:03:12,375
I used to see Todd a lot more

1776
01:03:12,375 --> 01:03:13,894
than I'd see my own boss. I'd see

1777
01:03:13,894 --> 01:03:16,295
Todd five to 10 times a year. I

1778
01:03:16,295 --> 01:03:18,135
used to see Laurie once every two or

1779
01:03:18,135 --> 01:03:18,795
three years.

1780
01:03:20,215 --> 01:03:21,494
You know, so he,

1781
01:03:23,255 --> 01:03:23,994
he was just

1782
01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:25,760
a great guy, and

1783
01:03:26,380 --> 01:03:26,880
and

1784
01:03:27,500 --> 01:03:29,099
I could not have made it through those

1785
01:03:29,099 --> 01:03:31,340
IAB calls every week if it wasn't for

1786
01:03:31,340 --> 01:03:32,640
the back channel joke.

1787
01:03:33,019 --> 01:03:33,500
Yes.

1788
01:03:34,059 --> 01:03:35,900
He really, you know, really helped me get

1789
01:03:35,900 --> 01:03:36,800
through that. And

1790
01:03:37,755 --> 01:03:39,355
and It was a lot of lot of

1791
01:03:39,355 --> 01:03:40,815
frustration on those calls.

1792
01:03:41,514 --> 01:03:42,954
I was on a few of them too.

1793
01:03:42,954 --> 01:03:44,094
Yeah. Yeah.

1794
01:03:44,875 --> 01:03:46,795
Mike, is there any other thoughts that you

1795
01:03:46,795 --> 01:03:47,914
have? Oh, I just,

1796
01:03:48,554 --> 01:03:49,034
you know, it's

1797
01:03:50,059 --> 01:03:52,000
it really sucks around here lately,

1798
01:03:52,460 --> 01:03:52,960
obviously.

1799
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:55,280
And like I said, we're definitely,

1800
01:03:55,659 --> 01:03:57,599
praying with the family and everybody,

1801
01:03:59,099 --> 01:03:59,599
and

1802
01:03:59,980 --> 01:04:02,780
we'll get through it. Blueberry's gonna soldier on

1803
01:04:02,780 --> 01:04:04,880
in his memory, and and

1804
01:04:05,684 --> 01:04:07,765
we're, not planning on slowing down. And I

1805
01:04:07,765 --> 01:04:09,125
don't know who gets to go to those

1806
01:04:09,125 --> 01:04:11,285
IAB meetings now, so I guess we'll figure

1807
01:04:11,285 --> 01:04:12,025
that out.

1808
01:04:12,885 --> 01:04:15,525
Yeah. Yeah. That's a small part of the

1809
01:04:15,525 --> 01:04:17,785
of the challenge, you know, trying to replace

1810
01:04:17,844 --> 01:04:19,684
his his heart in in that company is

1811
01:04:19,684 --> 01:04:21,750
not gonna be easy to do either. And,

1812
01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:23,590
you know, he always hated me calling him

1813
01:04:23,590 --> 01:04:25,530
my boss, but I did it anyway.

1814
01:04:28,230 --> 01:04:28,730
Yeah.

1815
01:04:29,349 --> 01:04:30,710
Yeah. He just wanted to be one of

1816
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:32,010
the guys. Yeah.

1817
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:34,329
There's no question about that. And,

1818
01:04:35,030 --> 01:04:35,849
you know, my

1819
01:04:36,425 --> 01:04:38,824
my final thoughts on this is that I

1820
01:04:38,824 --> 01:04:41,244
just really appreciate the podcasting

1821
01:04:41,545 --> 01:04:42,045
community,

1822
01:04:42,585 --> 01:04:43,644
who has really

1823
01:04:44,344 --> 01:04:47,065
stepped forward and put forth a lot of

1824
01:04:47,065 --> 01:04:48,184
heart and a lot of,

1825
01:04:48,984 --> 01:04:49,885
thought to

1826
01:04:50,319 --> 01:04:53,519
the legacy that Todd is leaving and expressing

1827
01:04:53,519 --> 01:04:55,940
their condolences. I've been overwhelmed by

1828
01:04:56,319 --> 01:04:58,420
people expressing that to me.

1829
01:05:00,159 --> 01:05:02,639
And and and including Todd on that, but

1830
01:05:02,639 --> 01:05:03,139
primarily

1831
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:04,420
Todd and

1832
01:05:05,065 --> 01:05:05,565
just

1833
01:05:06,025 --> 01:05:06,525
the

1834
01:05:07,144 --> 01:05:07,724
the recognition

1835
01:05:08,105 --> 01:05:10,284
of the significance that he had,

1836
01:05:11,304 --> 01:05:14,605
sometimes doesn't surface itself until we lose somebody

1837
01:05:14,744 --> 01:05:17,065
as much. And I know I've heard some

1838
01:05:17,065 --> 01:05:17,704
people say that

1839
01:05:18,530 --> 01:05:19,750
I think James Cridland

1840
01:05:20,690 --> 01:05:22,309
said this in a group.

1841
01:05:23,329 --> 01:05:24,309
If only people

1842
01:05:25,010 --> 01:05:25,510
appreciated

1843
01:05:25,809 --> 01:05:28,050
and were nice to each other when they

1844
01:05:28,050 --> 01:05:30,210
were alive as much as they did when

1845
01:05:30,210 --> 01:05:31,750
they were they were gone.

1846
01:05:33,155 --> 01:05:33,655
So

1847
01:05:34,434 --> 01:05:36,614
so thank you guys for being here.

1848
01:05:36,994 --> 01:05:39,655
Thank you, Rob. Appreciate it. For hosting this.

1849
01:05:40,755 --> 01:05:43,875
Yeah. Thanks. Alright. Well, thank you everybody for

1850
01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:44,610
being here.

1851
01:05:45,170 --> 01:05:46,070
I appreciate it.

1852
01:05:48,690 --> 01:05:50,390
Okay. Have a great day. Bye.