Everyone. I'm Mike Dell, VP of customer relations
here at Blueberry. And I'm Todd Cochran, founder
of Blueberry.
And I'm Mackenzie Bennett, marketing specialist.
Welcome to Podcast Insider.
And today, we're diving into a topic that's
core to podcasting
and to Blueberry's mission, keeping podcasting
independent.
And we're gonna explore why independence matters,
what's at stake for creators today, and what
technical and business decisions
help you stay in control.
And we'll also share how to market yourself
as an independent voice in a space that's
seeing more and more influence from big media
companies.
You're listening to Podcast Insider hosted by Mike
Dell, Todd Cochran, and Mackenzie Bennett from the
Blueberry team,
bringing you weekly insights, advice, and insider tips
and tricks to help you start, grow, and
thrive through podcasting.
With all the support of your team here
at Blueberry Podcasting,
welcome. Let's dive in.
You know, this is,
a topic I've been thinking about a lot
lately,
especially with the
you know, everyone is just basically saying, oh,
you have to do video. And the realization
is that, no. You you don't have to
do video. And
I hear from our new clients and potential
clients that,
you know, they're concerned about this and, you
know, think they have to put in a
big production and be one of the
the big boys or girls. And, you know,
and,
you know but I in my response to
those podcasters is, you know,
this this has always been a space where
where creators can find their own voice and
an audience and share their
message.
But what a lot of the big media,
you know, narrative is
that, you know, you just it's they're trying
to change a narrative and it's and then
in effect is, in my opinion, kind of
suppressing
some folks considering becoming a creator. So I
think that,
we need to make folks understand what independence
really looks like
and
why it's worth protecting.
And,
you know, we've been on
this bandwagon
for twenty years now, so
we can probably talk about a 100 things
in this regard only. When the podcasting first
started, it was, hey. There's no more gatekeepers.
There's no more you know, you don't have
to be with a radio or TV to
get on you know, to broadcast your show,
your
thoughts, your whatever.
And now they're trying to get it back
to having gatekeepers,
and that just isn't what podcasting is all
about or at least in my opinion, it
shouldn't be. You know, being independent
lets you control what you say. You don't
have to ask permission. You just do it.
And if it takes off, it takes off.
If it doesn't, it doesn't, but it's on
you. It's your thing. It's you're not a
broadcaster on Spotify. You're a podcaster that can
also distribute to Spotify and all these other
places. And I think a lot of those
platforms
are people are very cognizant.
They're very careful in what they say because
of the, you know, the the moderation constraints.
Constraints. And this is one of the beauties
of podcasting is there's really no moderation constraints.
Now, you know, this not very many shows
have ever been deplatformed
in the podcast sphere because they can't be
because they go into some things we're gonna
talk about here in a minute. But,
again, I think it's important that you understand
as a potential listener that, again, as Mike
said, you control your content and message. My
biggest thing is the way that you monetize
Because when you are deciding how you're gonna
monetize, whether that is, you know, with with
traditional ads that we're used to hearing at
this point, doing premium content that a select
user group is paying for,
asking for listener
donated support or all of the above, Signing
with specific companies will limit what you are
allowed to say. That's just that's just how
some advertising goes.
You know, you're not gonna gel with every
company out there that is looking to do
an ad deal specifically with podcasting too. There's
dozens of companies I wouldn't go near or
touch,
and there are companies that would do the
same to me if I was putting out
my own podcast with my own content. And
that is one of the things that is
solely your choice. And even if you are
joining something like a network,
that is also something that you are
letting go.
You can still be in control of it
somewhat if that's unprivileged enough to be able
to to negotiate in your own contract for
your show. But if not, that is something
that you were just acknowledging that this is
gonna be different. You know, for me,
having done this for so long,
it's really truly about controlling my brand, controlling
my not controlling, but building my audience on
my own terms
where no one can dictate to you the
direction of the show, the content of the
show.
And I and I think that sometimes is
often lost
is that
you you have have to be able to
do that. If you're gonna put your creative
effort, your blood, sweat, and tears
into something,
you know, you you wanna build your brand
and you wanna build it your way and
do it and do it as you so
please.
And I think that's the power of being
independent, power of being a a true podcaster.
And, you know, it goes a long ways
when it comes to audience.
They crave it. People wanna find independent creators,
across all mediums at this point.
And with podcasting,
you know, that's something that they're absolutely used
to and expecting
that you might be an independent creator and
not, you know, part of a news network.
Because so often nowadays, it's
these things are a monopoly,
and there's the exact same rhetoric going from
one thing to the other.
So they are looking for something that is
going to stand out to them. That is
someone expressing and giving them, you know, what
they want
without just blending in. Yeah. I think listeners
can detect when you're being
non authentic
and and not being transparent.
I I think they can smell that a
a mile away. So being able to be
yourself and saying what you wanna say and
how you wanna say it
literally,
I think that is
the power of this medium.
And I go back to stories about different
organizations and stuff that started a podcast largely
because
their words were being manipulated, and they wanted
to make sure they put out media
so that they heard their voice and that
their message couldn't be
misconstrued.
So it's not just individuals, it can be
companies or organizations too that are trying to,
to put it out there. Mike, if there's
a tip you can give someone, what would
be the tip would be?
Just be, you know,
if a place that you're gonna be podcasting
from limits
where your podcast can appear, who can access
it, or how you can monetize it, it
may be undermining your independence. If they have
rules
that go against what you wanna do, or
you may not wanna be there. Now if
they write a big enough check, you might
want to. But I think,
I, you know, I think being independent isn't
just about the
AKA technical decisions, you know, control your feed,
control your brand, all this.
It's also anything that,
that's gonna allow you to stand out in
a crowd.
And there's a lot of podcasts out there,
you know, probably around 400,000
that are currently active.
So,
you know,
you being that independent voice,
again, it goes back to that transparency
telling your audience you're an independent creator that,
you know, you basically,
even if you have a sponsor, you can
even say how I am not my message
is not controlled. And if it is controlled,
make sure you divulge that. If your sponsor
doesn't let you talk about
someone else in your same category, then you
say, hey. I'm kinda obligated not to talk
about this. I'll let you guys make up
your own mind on a specific topic that's
come up for me even in my own
show in the past where my sponsors
well, someone on my sponsors team did something
really dumb and,
you know, I kinda had to address it.
And I had to be you know, find
that line, but, again, that transparency is super,
super powerful.
Yeah. It did just you know, being independent
also helps you, you know, build a direct
relationship with your listeners, viewers, whatever, if you're
doing video.
And the beauty of that is that they
know you.
They don't need to know that you're on,
ABC network, and I don't mean ABC the
broadcaster,
but, you know, just as a generic network
or generic platform. I'm not speaking for say,
you're on Spotify as your your platform.
You know, you you don't speak for Spotify.
You look at Joe Rogan. He was he's
exclusive to to Spotify. I mean, now he's
out there
more open, which is good,
and they don't mess with him as much
as they would the the average person. But
the
the beauty of,
of not being tied to one platform is
you've got if you got something bad to
say about a platform, well, you can say
it.
And, you know, but but keeping that relationship
with your listeners directly helps. I I have
listeners that have been listening to me for
twenty years. I know them by name, you
know, and sometimes I'll call them out on
the show and say, what do you think
of that, Wes? And, you know,
I'll get an email back. And you you
just can't get that
if you're not truly independent. I think this
this definition of independent needs to be a
little more refined. I think independent means you
are just not constrained by someone. You don't
have to answer
to someone.
I would say Rogan has to answer someone.
Yeah. So he's not independent.
So if you don't have to answer someone,
this show, we're really not
independent because what do we answer to? We
answer to the company, but we also are
pretty
free flowing in our thoughts and ideas on
here too. Yeah. So as as an independent
creator,
you you got that real like you said,
you have that ability to build a relationship,
and I think using you know, there's lots
of language you can define yourself by.
Yeah.
Yeah. So much of that relationship that you
are
setting and really
defining is saying that you are independent, you
are listener supported.
That that go goes across the board. That's
on your website. That's on your social media.
That's on your show that's in your show
notes. That's in the content that you were
speaking out into the world. It's it goes
into the newsletters that you're putting out. The,
you know, the Reddit channels that you're in,
all it's everything.
And, you know, I go back to the
early days and, you know, there really wasn't
this everyone was pretty independent in the beginning.
And why did why did they choose independence?
It was pretty simple because we could for
the first time.
We didn't have to get on a radio
station very easily. No. Or or you couldn't
be distributed. That was the thing. That's that's
what I mean. You know, you couldn't
you couldn't get on a a network,
a a radio network or even a radio
station without, you know, going through a whole
bunch of stuff, and there's lots of rules.
And when podcasting first came out, like I
said before,
the big thing was you don't have to
worry about the gatekeepers. You don't have to
worry about the FCC rules. And there was
a a saying that that we won't say
here about the FCC.
But I think That was a big thing
in podcasting back then. But I also think
that most of us had no desire
to be on the radio.
And but at the same time, if you
wanted to be on the Xbox or you
wanted to be on the sites of the
day,
there was a gatekeeper there. And, you
know, I think independent creators often have the
strongest listener loyalty too.
So lean into that and invite your audience
to be part of that that journey.
There's also more reason
to be independent
as a business than just your own personal
preference, maybe. You know, it it might be
best for your
for you as a whole, for your podcast
as a whole, if you're doing this, because
you're in control of your revenue streams
and how you're functioning and structuring and
and overall the brand.
Yeah. No forced ads, no revenue splits,
all that kinda goes into
into that play.
And You are the you are the one
designating whatever is in that contract. Whatever,
you know, legal stuff is happening, you are
the force behind it. Yeah. And a 100
Go ahead. And as, you know, as you
as you grow or something, you know, you
could always,
you know, flip it around, do do something
different. You maintain that flexibility
if you're not under
some contract,
you know, and remaining independent. You've got that
you know, I look at, Dave Ramsey. Okay?
It's a big company. He's a big company,
but he is an independent
podcaster creator.
He's not beholden to these big companies. Now
he does have an ad sales team and
all that stuff, but a lot of that's
in house.
And so you can get really big and
still be independent.
You know, he protects his brand. He protects
his company's name,
protects his IP,
and his audience
remains
under his umbrella.
And, you know, and Dave has actually added
shows to his network, so those shows that
grow
may have to follow the rules of Dave
Ramsey.
Yeah. But They own.
But at the same time,
that's a choice they made. And I think
for most
businesses out there,
you know, by default,
you're largely gonna be independent unless you're doing
a
legal, finance, some sort of showing you join
some network that has that type of content,
then you may not be as
as independent because you have to follow the
rules of whatever that network has set forth.
And I think too there's the ability to
diversify.
You don't have to run ads. You can
run ads. You can do premium content. You
you really can do whatever you want. Value
for value, you know.
I'm treasure and talent, you know, that whole
thing.
One of the things that you can do
by yourself as opposed to working for a
network or a business or whatever the case,
this allows you to be incredibly creative and
try whatever it is that you want to
monetize.
It can be a little scary if you
don't have that backup
of, you know, whoever is finding this for
you, finding ways to monetize, but it does
mean that you are able to try whatever
it is that you want. Some of the
technical choices
that, can support independence,
and, you know, the technology behind your podcast
plays a huge role in maintaining that independence.
So you wanna make intentional
choices about where and how you, host your
show.
And one of the big things here at
Blueberry is owning your own RSS feed. You
know, don't let a platform control it. Of
course, here at Blueberry, we ensure that you
can always
take your feed with you. So that you
know, that's one of the the biggest things.
I just had one today where
somebody was working with a consultant and, didn't
own all her stuff. And,
so there's a little bit of a fight
going on there, and
and you don't wanna get into that. Make
sure you own the stuff. You you can
hire people to help you, but
you keep control of your RSS feed, your
logins to the different accounts, and so on.
At the same time, I think, you know,
this you know, we've we've pushed this for
years as, you know, having your own domain.
And,
that's ideally with a full site a full
site that we offer, you know, either with
the WordPress or or one of your own.
So, you know, owning your website is super,
super critical to having that origin of content.
But, of course,
you host your media independently,
so you don't have to be on a
platform that inserts ads or or locks your
content.
Hosts like Blueberry, it's your choice on what
you what you participate in and do.
So, you know, we're we're just kinda here
to get that media up, get it hosted,
get it delivered,
but it's your decision then. Okay. Do I
wanna run ads? Do I wanna run Go
Premium? Do I wanna have, programmatic advertising?
You know, we, we don't touch that audio
file. You make that decision,
independently.
We stay a 100% out of your content
unless you ask us to.
And then,
we don't touch your content, but we will
analyze crap out of it.
We will we have a lot of analytics
going on, for your Blueberry stats that are
gonna give you a actual real true picture
of your audience.
And I think one thing that's really important
too of free hosting solutions,
If you're not paying,
you're basically probably the product,
and you may be paying with your content
or audience success. And as we see here
every day,
we graduate podcast into Blueberry that have been
on platforms that either limited their success, limited
the amount of analytics,
limited their freedom to be more diversified.
It just runs the full gamut of decisions.
So as we kinda wrap this independent
discussion up of being an independent podcaster, which
I feel in my personal shows I am,
any last thoughts?
Again, just be careful of who you partner
with
for your podcast.
Just,
you know, the the the more you control
yourself. And, yes, it's a little more work.
We do our best here to help
you, you know, get through the technical stuff,
and then you create the content. You get
to choose what you wanna say, when you
wanna say it, how often you wanna podcast,
how long the episodes are. Everything about it
is yours,
and we stay out of your way. My
last thing is there's really no podcast failure.
You know, if you wanna start this up
and remain a 100%
independent and not move on to a big
platform or network,
then that is your choice, and there's there's
really nothing that can go wrong. So that's
a wrap on today's episode. I hope this
gives you some practical ideas to keep your
podcast truly
independent.
And we do want you to remember that
independence isn't just about the technology itself, but
it's about how you build your brand, your
business, and the relationship that you have with
your audiences.
Yeah. Of course. We always have to put
this in here. Don't forget to follow or
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