1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,960 Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly 2 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,059 podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston. 3 00:00:13,625 --> 00:00:16,125 My guest in this episode is the physicist 4 00:00:16,265 --> 00:00:17,324 and entrepreneur, 5 00:00:17,945 --> 00:00:19,164 Gleb Zilberstein, 6 00:00:20,105 --> 00:00:22,685 who applies the principles of proteomics 7 00:00:23,385 --> 00:00:25,085 to the study of historical 8 00:00:25,464 --> 00:00:25,964 objects, 9 00:00:26,410 --> 00:00:27,550 including manuscripts. 10 00:00:28,649 --> 00:00:30,190 In 1994, 11 00:00:30,410 --> 00:00:32,990 Gleb received an MSC in physics 12 00:00:33,450 --> 00:00:34,270 from Russia's 13 00:00:34,649 --> 00:00:35,149 Novosibirsk 14 00:00:36,090 --> 00:00:37,070 State University. 15 00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:41,070 Today, he's director of Israel based 16 00:00:41,505 --> 00:00:43,364 Spring Style Tech Design. 17 00:00:44,145 --> 00:00:47,184 The company has created a special film that 18 00:00:47,184 --> 00:00:49,524 lifts proteins from the surfaces 19 00:00:49,905 --> 00:00:50,725 of historical 20 00:00:51,104 --> 00:00:51,604 objects. 21 00:00:52,545 --> 00:00:54,085 Analysis of the proteins 22 00:00:54,465 --> 00:00:55,684 provides important 23 00:00:56,145 --> 00:00:56,645 information 24 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,340 about how the objects were used. 25 00:00:59,799 --> 00:01:02,140 Here's my conversation with Gleb. 26 00:01:10,905 --> 00:01:13,084 Hi, Gleb. Welcome to the podcast. 27 00:01:14,185 --> 00:01:16,905 Hello, doctor Johnson. Thank you very much for 28 00:01:16,905 --> 00:01:19,004 your kind invitation to your podcast. 29 00:01:19,784 --> 00:01:21,465 Yeah. I mean, I have to say, Gleb, 30 00:01:21,465 --> 00:01:22,605 Gleb, I'm really, 31 00:01:22,984 --> 00:01:25,950 excited about talking to you about your work. 32 00:01:25,950 --> 00:01:27,170 I mean, it sounds like 33 00:01:27,549 --> 00:01:29,329 an amazing sort of multidisciplinary, 34 00:01:31,869 --> 00:01:33,890 bit of research that you do. 35 00:01:34,829 --> 00:01:37,390 And and in particular, you were recently involved 36 00:01:37,390 --> 00:01:38,609 in a study of 37 00:01:39,105 --> 00:01:41,364 residues that were left by readers 38 00:01:41,905 --> 00:01:43,284 on a on a Renaissance 39 00:01:43,745 --> 00:01:45,045 book of recipes 40 00:01:45,584 --> 00:01:46,965 for medical treatments, 41 00:01:47,424 --> 00:01:49,765 which sounds I mean, the book sounds fascinating 42 00:01:49,905 --> 00:01:50,564 in itself. 43 00:01:51,265 --> 00:01:53,959 Before we talk about the science, can you 44 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:56,840 give us a brief description of the book? 45 00:01:57,540 --> 00:01:58,599 We we started 46 00:01:58,900 --> 00:01:59,400 two 47 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:04,500 sixteenth century German prints, books containing hundreds of 48 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:05,799 medical and cosmetic 49 00:02:06,260 --> 00:02:06,760 recipes. 50 00:02:08,175 --> 00:02:09,634 The two books 51 00:02:09,935 --> 00:02:10,754 are entitled, 52 00:02:11,775 --> 00:02:14,435 How to Cure and Expel of 53 00:02:14,974 --> 00:02:16,114 All Afflictions. 54 00:02:16,974 --> 00:02:18,354 And second, Illnesses 55 00:02:18,974 --> 00:02:20,914 of the Human Body and 56 00:02:21,539 --> 00:02:22,039 a 57 00:02:22,340 --> 00:02:23,879 useful and essential 58 00:02:24,419 --> 00:02:26,120 little book of medicine 59 00:02:26,579 --> 00:02:28,359 for the common man. 60 00:02:29,379 --> 00:02:31,879 These, two German medical manuals 61 00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:34,439 have been published by 62 00:02:35,025 --> 00:02:35,525 Bartolomeus 63 00:02:36,064 --> 00:02:36,564 Wachter 64 00:02:37,425 --> 00:02:38,245 in Germany 65 00:02:38,625 --> 00:02:41,364 Augsburg in 1531 66 00:02:41,985 --> 00:02:42,485 Germany, 67 00:02:42,944 --> 00:02:43,444 Bavaria, 68 00:02:45,264 --> 00:02:46,405 Bavarian Kingdom. 69 00:02:47,104 --> 00:02:49,500 These two works are usually 70 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,379 bound together into one volume. 71 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:55,260 And, we studied the two, 72 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,580 works bound together 73 00:02:57,879 --> 00:02:58,939 in one volume, 74 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:01,955 with a book held in, 75 00:03:02,435 --> 00:03:05,574 John Rylands Research Institute and Library 76 00:03:06,435 --> 00:03:08,215 in University Of Manchester, 77 00:03:09,395 --> 00:03:10,294 United Kingdom. 78 00:03:11,955 --> 00:03:16,050 The Rylands Library volume is covered with sixteenth 79 00:03:16,050 --> 00:03:18,150 and seventeenth century marginalia 80 00:03:18,930 --> 00:03:19,750 that evidence 81 00:03:20,050 --> 00:03:20,949 reader practitioners, 82 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:23,750 experimental 83 00:03:24,050 --> 00:03:24,550 engagement 84 00:03:24,930 --> 00:03:25,989 with the recipes. 85 00:03:26,930 --> 00:03:30,550 This points to the availability of chemical information 86 00:03:31,175 --> 00:03:32,715 from, the fingerprints 87 00:03:33,094 --> 00:03:34,474 of past users 88 00:03:35,174 --> 00:03:35,674 that 89 00:03:36,215 --> 00:03:37,834 rift through the pages. 90 00:03:38,854 --> 00:03:40,155 And, these readers 91 00:03:40,534 --> 00:03:41,034 notes 92 00:03:41,414 --> 00:03:45,009 include the comments of owners and the efficacy 93 00:03:45,009 --> 00:03:46,709 of recipes in the, 94 00:03:47,650 --> 00:03:48,150 improvised 95 00:03:48,449 --> 00:03:49,430 edit recipes. 96 00:03:50,849 --> 00:03:52,469 And they're handwritten notes, 97 00:03:53,729 --> 00:03:54,549 on the margins. 98 00:03:55,090 --> 00:03:56,400 And the this 99 00:03:57,495 --> 00:04:01,275 book provide unique information on the social contextual 100 00:04:01,414 --> 00:04:01,914 contextualization 101 00:04:02,694 --> 00:04:04,235 of, scientific data. 102 00:04:04,775 --> 00:04:06,314 It means that, we make 103 00:04:06,854 --> 00:04:07,354 synchronization. 104 00:04:07,814 --> 00:04:09,814 We try to make synchronization between, 105 00:04:10,375 --> 00:04:11,514 what was, 106 00:04:12,294 --> 00:04:13,860 written on on the book, 107 00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:16,720 what was printed on the book, and what 108 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:17,860 was real 109 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:20,819 biochemical traces, 110 00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:23,060 kept in the 111 00:04:24,399 --> 00:04:26,444 pages of these books. 112 00:04:27,564 --> 00:04:28,064 And, 113 00:04:28,764 --> 00:04:29,985 this book of workers' 114 00:04:30,365 --> 00:04:33,645 affiliations in the Little Book of Medicine are 115 00:04:33,645 --> 00:04:36,785 exemplary among of a vast number of, 116 00:04:37,564 --> 00:04:40,340 medical manuals printed in the early 117 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:41,780 sixteenth century, 118 00:04:42,639 --> 00:04:46,180 providing the for common man like we are 119 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:47,780 for physicists or 120 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,460 for future physicists. 121 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,540 And, we've 122 00:04:51,995 --> 00:04:55,675 reached collection of recipes for everyday use. This 123 00:04:55,675 --> 00:04:57,134 means that, these books 124 00:04:57,995 --> 00:04:58,495 are 125 00:04:59,435 --> 00:05:00,014 for everyday 126 00:05:00,634 --> 00:05:01,134 for 127 00:05:01,675 --> 00:05:02,175 home 128 00:05:02,714 --> 00:05:04,254 healings, for home 129 00:05:05,330 --> 00:05:06,470 medicine practitioners. 130 00:05:07,889 --> 00:05:11,350 This volume contain hundreds of medical and cosmetic 131 00:05:12,210 --> 00:05:12,710 recipes 132 00:05:13,330 --> 00:05:14,870 that were widely used, 133 00:05:15,810 --> 00:05:16,870 including remedies 134 00:05:17,354 --> 00:05:20,814 for brain diseases and for stones and fertility 135 00:05:21,435 --> 00:05:23,375 and other severe illnesses 136 00:05:24,235 --> 00:05:24,735 that 137 00:05:25,035 --> 00:05:25,774 are discussed 138 00:05:26,235 --> 00:05:26,735 alongside, 139 00:05:28,634 --> 00:05:30,779 recipes for treatment of wounds, 140 00:05:31,180 --> 00:05:33,680 skin disorders, hair loss, and cosmetics. 141 00:05:36,459 --> 00:05:38,459 I see. And and so I suppose the 142 00:05:38,459 --> 00:05:40,860 the idea is that people are using this 143 00:05:40,860 --> 00:05:43,199 book. They're they're mixing up these recipes. 144 00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:45,439 They're trying out the treatments. 145 00:05:46,064 --> 00:05:48,064 And they they I suppose they're sitting in 146 00:05:48,064 --> 00:05:50,625 the kitchen or in their workshop with the 147 00:05:50,625 --> 00:05:52,884 book, and they're mixing things up. And 148 00:05:53,185 --> 00:05:55,504 maybe they're spilling a bit of material onto 149 00:05:55,504 --> 00:05:58,404 the book, or their their finger their fingers 150 00:05:58,464 --> 00:05:59,044 are sticky 151 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,660 because they're making some sort of solve, 152 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,959 and that gets onto the book. 153 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,139 And you're, 154 00:06:07,959 --> 00:06:10,379 through the magic of modern science, I suppose, 155 00:06:11,649 --> 00:06:14,345 detecting those molecules. Can you explain 156 00:06:14,645 --> 00:06:17,145 how you do that? What sort of techniques 157 00:06:17,205 --> 00:06:18,585 do you use to, 158 00:06:19,925 --> 00:06:22,425 I suppose, remove a small amount of material 159 00:06:22,645 --> 00:06:26,750 from the book and determine its biochemical nature 160 00:06:26,810 --> 00:06:28,110 or its chemical nature. 161 00:06:29,449 --> 00:06:31,629 Well, yeah, it's a great subject. 162 00:06:32,250 --> 00:06:34,430 What kind of method need to 163 00:06:35,209 --> 00:06:36,349 use it for, 164 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:38,750 detection in the 165 00:06:39,974 --> 00:06:41,274 determination of 166 00:06:41,574 --> 00:06:42,074 residues 167 00:06:43,014 --> 00:06:45,754 on antique books or manuscripts. 168 00:06:46,454 --> 00:06:47,514 Because sometimes 169 00:06:47,974 --> 00:06:48,875 people use 170 00:06:52,294 --> 00:06:52,794 XPS 171 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:53,900 or 172 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,779 another type of limited analysis, 173 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,939 but, we choose, proteomics. 174 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:01,100 This is first 175 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,420 study that use proteomics to analyze Renaissance medical 176 00:07:05,805 --> 00:07:06,305 recipes. 177 00:07:07,084 --> 00:07:10,225 Before we use the same technique for analysis 178 00:07:10,285 --> 00:07:10,785 of, 179 00:07:11,165 --> 00:07:13,425 letters of, clontula and 180 00:07:14,125 --> 00:07:15,504 George Orwell and other 181 00:07:18,444 --> 00:07:20,705 historical personas. But this 182 00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:25,009 study first time medical recipes 183 00:07:25,389 --> 00:07:27,790 at period of renaissance May 184 00:07:27,790 --> 00:07:28,290 ago. 185 00:07:29,069 --> 00:07:30,769 Whenever sixteenth century 186 00:07:31,230 --> 00:07:32,449 reader Rakshaners 187 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:34,209 handed the recipe 188 00:07:34,509 --> 00:07:35,649 in the scabbled 189 00:07:36,274 --> 00:07:39,875 down commons, they left behind invisible proteins on 190 00:07:39,875 --> 00:07:40,935 the paper surface. 191 00:07:41,714 --> 00:07:42,375 This article 192 00:07:42,754 --> 00:07:45,175 develops a novel methodology for, 193 00:07:45,954 --> 00:07:49,574 extraction analysis in the very important contextualization. 194 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,660 It means that the translation from, 195 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:56,420 life science or physical language 196 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,819 to historical or homogeneous language is important 197 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:01,620 thing. 198 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:03,620 Because, historians 199 00:08:04,305 --> 00:08:06,725 have no clue about spectrums and 200 00:08:08,145 --> 00:08:08,965 other, analytical 201 00:08:09,425 --> 00:08:09,925 data. 202 00:08:10,384 --> 00:08:12,805 And there was a very important to translate 203 00:08:13,185 --> 00:08:13,685 for, 204 00:08:15,105 --> 00:08:18,465 to humanist language from life science in the, 205 00:08:19,310 --> 00:08:21,009 physical and chemical language. 206 00:08:21,629 --> 00:08:23,410 At the same time, this 207 00:08:24,110 --> 00:08:26,930 is a very few study to use dev 208 00:08:27,550 --> 00:08:28,050 archival 209 00:08:28,750 --> 00:08:32,769 archival research to construct utilization of proteomics results. 210 00:08:33,845 --> 00:08:35,704 For example, to use a historical 211 00:08:36,245 --> 00:08:38,264 con historical con contextualization 212 00:08:38,804 --> 00:08:41,304 to better understand biochemical data. 213 00:08:41,764 --> 00:08:43,684 And the real methods to, 214 00:08:44,084 --> 00:08:44,584 to 215 00:08:44,884 --> 00:08:45,384 get 216 00:08:46,809 --> 00:08:47,710 answers to 217 00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:49,070 research questions. 218 00:08:50,570 --> 00:08:51,070 How, 219 00:08:54,409 --> 00:08:57,789 in the our study performed in tandem 220 00:08:58,250 --> 00:08:58,909 with development 221 00:08:59,605 --> 00:09:00,825 of user sophisticated 222 00:09:01,205 --> 00:09:02,345 and sensitive technologies, 223 00:09:03,445 --> 00:09:06,504 such as, as a high resolution mass spectrometry 224 00:09:07,365 --> 00:09:08,345 and the noninvasive 225 00:09:08,725 --> 00:09:10,585 and the non damaged technique 226 00:09:11,524 --> 00:09:13,544 known under the acronym 227 00:09:14,004 --> 00:09:14,490 EVA, 228 00:09:15,529 --> 00:09:16,029 EVA. 229 00:09:17,690 --> 00:09:18,330 Here in, 230 00:09:19,529 --> 00:09:20,509 in the study, 231 00:09:21,209 --> 00:09:22,669 we use mostly 232 00:09:23,209 --> 00:09:24,029 mass spectrometry 233 00:09:24,809 --> 00:09:25,309 protein 234 00:09:25,690 --> 00:09:27,070 mass spectrometry characterization 235 00:09:27,450 --> 00:09:29,629 of peptides fragments of proteins. 236 00:09:30,424 --> 00:09:33,324 And the harvest which was harvested 237 00:09:33,704 --> 00:09:34,204 by 238 00:09:34,664 --> 00:09:36,605 our unique Ewai technology 239 00:09:37,945 --> 00:09:39,004 and the VISTA, 240 00:09:39,704 --> 00:09:40,445 Ewai technology 241 00:09:40,985 --> 00:09:41,485 extracted 242 00:09:42,024 --> 00:09:44,125 very gently without any traces, 243 00:09:45,019 --> 00:09:46,159 mobile residues 244 00:09:46,539 --> 00:09:47,039 from 245 00:09:47,779 --> 00:09:48,279 pages 246 00:09:49,019 --> 00:09:49,519 of, 247 00:09:50,379 --> 00:09:51,919 VISI renaissance book. 248 00:09:52,860 --> 00:09:54,000 And the technique 249 00:09:54,379 --> 00:09:55,120 which we 250 00:09:55,659 --> 00:09:57,199 call as EVO technology, 251 00:09:58,220 --> 00:10:01,855 it's extraction, sampling, non destructive technology for sampling 252 00:10:01,855 --> 00:10:02,995 of proteins in 253 00:10:03,375 --> 00:10:04,274 the as a biological 254 00:10:04,654 --> 00:10:06,434 molecules like DNA, RNA, 255 00:10:06,815 --> 00:10:09,475 and in this case, just proteins and peptides, 256 00:10:10,495 --> 00:10:12,754 from historical objects in the 257 00:10:15,750 --> 00:10:16,970 priceless documents. 258 00:10:18,309 --> 00:10:21,610 No. Imagine, if you have, just one, 259 00:10:22,709 --> 00:10:27,209 litter of, blood Dracula or Giacomo Casanova, nobody 260 00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:30,485 give you possibility to cut part part of 261 00:10:30,485 --> 00:10:30,985 this 262 00:10:32,085 --> 00:10:33,384 correspondence and destroy. 263 00:10:33,924 --> 00:10:35,384 And, for us was 264 00:10:35,845 --> 00:10:36,904 extremely important 265 00:10:37,285 --> 00:10:40,504 to keep confidence about safety for, 266 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:43,259 safety for 267 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,299 our historical objects. 268 00:10:46,919 --> 00:10:47,419 And, 269 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:49,100 with 270 00:10:49,879 --> 00:10:50,379 technology 271 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:52,059 our technology, it's 272 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:53,019 some 273 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:53,980 very 274 00:10:55,664 --> 00:10:56,164 sophisticated 275 00:10:57,105 --> 00:10:59,204 molecule sponge to extraction, 276 00:10:59,504 --> 00:11:00,964 to selective extraction 277 00:11:01,424 --> 00:11:02,404 of, some, 278 00:11:02,944 --> 00:11:03,664 sort of, 279 00:11:04,144 --> 00:11:06,865 analyze molecules which are needed to analyze which 280 00:11:06,865 --> 00:11:07,924 are able to analyze. 281 00:11:08,944 --> 00:11:10,149 And the samples 282 00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:12,389 that we analyzed in laboratories 283 00:11:13,090 --> 00:11:13,590 by, 284 00:11:14,450 --> 00:11:15,750 in York University 285 00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:16,870 by, 286 00:11:17,330 --> 00:11:17,830 doctor 287 00:11:18,370 --> 00:11:20,629 Samantha Grievs before she was, 288 00:11:21,250 --> 00:11:22,309 Samantha Priestley. 289 00:11:22,769 --> 00:11:23,269 And 290 00:11:24,355 --> 00:11:25,014 we use 291 00:11:25,394 --> 00:11:26,214 a mass spectrometry 292 00:11:26,914 --> 00:11:27,735 after separation 293 00:11:28,274 --> 00:11:30,214 in, by liquid chromatography. 294 00:11:30,674 --> 00:11:34,214 It's called technique as a a liquid chromatography 295 00:11:34,754 --> 00:11:36,615 tandem before mass spectrometry. 296 00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:41,420 And, to make, in for to make, this, 297 00:11:41,740 --> 00:11:42,879 informed decisions 298 00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:45,279 regarding sampling, we also 299 00:11:45,660 --> 00:11:46,720 use a multispectral 300 00:11:47,420 --> 00:11:47,920 imaging, 301 00:11:49,660 --> 00:11:50,720 with, acronym 302 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:51,600 MSI 303 00:11:52,304 --> 00:11:55,924 conducted by Joe John Rylands Imaging Club, 304 00:11:56,705 --> 00:11:58,804 a part of, Manchester University, 305 00:12:00,065 --> 00:12:00,565 using 306 00:12:01,345 --> 00:12:01,845 lightning 307 00:12:02,304 --> 00:12:03,845 conditions that combine 308 00:12:04,384 --> 00:12:05,669 wavelengths from 309 00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:07,190 365 310 00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:07,690 nanometers 311 00:12:08,549 --> 00:12:09,049 to 312 00:12:09,589 --> 00:12:11,029 940 313 00:12:11,029 --> 00:12:13,850 nanometers. It's means that, they cover full, 314 00:12:14,309 --> 00:12:16,329 range from UV to infrared 315 00:12:16,709 --> 00:12:18,409 with long pass violet. 316 00:12:19,235 --> 00:12:21,495 And, we have different selective 317 00:12:22,834 --> 00:12:23,654 light filters. 318 00:12:24,514 --> 00:12:25,334 Such wavelets 319 00:12:25,794 --> 00:12:29,394 are beyond the human visible light range and 320 00:12:29,394 --> 00:12:31,095 recover invisible information. 321 00:12:32,019 --> 00:12:33,799 By this multispectral analysis, 322 00:12:34,899 --> 00:12:35,399 our 323 00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:39,559 team members analyze invisible 324 00:12:40,580 --> 00:12:41,080 handwritten, 325 00:12:42,420 --> 00:12:42,920 handwritten 326 00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:44,740 notes of, 327 00:12:45,704 --> 00:12:46,204 medial, 328 00:12:48,664 --> 00:12:51,644 and then navigate where needed to apply 329 00:12:52,105 --> 00:12:54,444 our extraction foil, our foil. 330 00:12:55,144 --> 00:12:57,625 It's a it was a navigation by not 331 00:12:57,625 --> 00:13:00,444 I. The decision was after 332 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:01,600 multispectral 333 00:13:02,059 --> 00:13:03,120 analysis of, 334 00:13:05,740 --> 00:13:06,639 pages surface. 335 00:13:08,379 --> 00:13:09,120 For instance, 336 00:13:09,899 --> 00:13:11,839 we had recovered strongly 337 00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:13,360 fitted 338 00:13:14,404 --> 00:13:14,904 handwriting 339 00:13:15,284 --> 00:13:16,664 on the inside cover 340 00:13:17,365 --> 00:13:19,225 of the collection of recipes. 341 00:13:20,245 --> 00:13:23,125 That writing provides instructions for the use of, 342 00:13:23,524 --> 00:13:26,184 for example, the wall lines, scorpion 343 00:13:26,669 --> 00:13:27,330 oil against 344 00:13:27,789 --> 00:13:30,929 of, oralis and the ulcers, respectively. 345 00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:32,589 And, 346 00:13:33,789 --> 00:13:34,529 as a exotic 347 00:13:35,389 --> 00:13:38,370 for us, comp drugs company companies. 348 00:13:39,309 --> 00:13:40,769 All this was a 349 00:13:41,245 --> 00:13:41,745 contextualization 350 00:13:42,365 --> 00:13:45,345 we've heard in the depth archival research. 351 00:13:45,804 --> 00:13:48,625 For example, the study of medical and botanical 352 00:13:50,204 --> 00:13:50,704 treatises, 353 00:13:51,164 --> 00:13:53,839 hairballs, and the records of Augsburg 354 00:13:54,539 --> 00:13:55,039 German, 355 00:13:55,579 --> 00:13:57,039 Germany medical practitioners. 356 00:13:58,940 --> 00:14:01,600 Gleb, I wanted to ask you specifically about 357 00:14:01,740 --> 00:14:02,240 proteomics 358 00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:04,399 because I think it it might be 359 00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:07,519 a, a technique that some of our listeners 360 00:14:07,579 --> 00:14:10,404 aren't familiar with. Is the idea that you 361 00:14:10,544 --> 00:14:13,044 you sort of do your analysis and you 362 00:14:13,264 --> 00:14:14,404 you identify, 363 00:14:15,745 --> 00:14:18,644 a number of proteins that are, 364 00:14:19,664 --> 00:14:20,725 within a sample, 365 00:14:21,039 --> 00:14:23,139 And then you sort of look at that 366 00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:25,059 ensemble and decide 367 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,139 where those proteins 368 00:14:27,919 --> 00:14:30,639 may have come from. Is that is that 369 00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:32,559 how it works, or have I got that 370 00:14:32,559 --> 00:14:35,039 completely wrong? So as my question is, how 371 00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:35,860 does it work? 372 00:14:37,485 --> 00:14:38,625 No. First of all, 373 00:14:39,485 --> 00:14:39,725 all, 374 00:14:41,805 --> 00:14:42,625 our civilization, 375 00:14:44,205 --> 00:14:46,684 built from proteins. It means that, 376 00:14:48,445 --> 00:14:49,184 our body 377 00:14:49,485 --> 00:14:51,184 plenty of proteins and 378 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,559 things which we use plenty of proteins and, 379 00:14:55,919 --> 00:14:57,459 even trash around 380 00:14:57,839 --> 00:14:58,659 us also, 381 00:14:59,440 --> 00:14:59,940 proteins. 382 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:01,940 And the protonics, it's, 383 00:15:02,959 --> 00:15:06,419 generally denotes the large scale experimental analysis 384 00:15:06,875 --> 00:15:09,214 of proteins in the protons. 385 00:15:09,754 --> 00:15:10,975 It means that complexes 386 00:15:11,355 --> 00:15:12,575 in the as a, 387 00:15:15,115 --> 00:15:16,654 in the other subcellular, 388 00:15:17,514 --> 00:15:18,254 in the 389 00:15:18,634 --> 00:15:19,615 comp components. 390 00:15:21,179 --> 00:15:23,919 But often refers refers especially, 391 00:15:25,019 --> 00:15:27,899 to protein qualification and mass spectrometer. It means 392 00:15:27,899 --> 00:15:29,679 that proteomics is some technological 393 00:15:30,860 --> 00:15:31,360 discipline, 394 00:15:31,980 --> 00:15:33,199 which include 395 00:15:35,065 --> 00:15:35,884 extraction, purification, 396 00:15:36,584 --> 00:15:37,084 analysis, 397 00:15:37,544 --> 00:15:38,845 and the data treatment 398 00:15:39,625 --> 00:15:40,524 by bioinformatic. 399 00:15:41,304 --> 00:15:43,245 And the we have different variations. 400 00:15:43,625 --> 00:15:46,605 Protomix, it's a very flexible and transformable 401 00:15:47,144 --> 00:15:48,269 term. And, 402 00:15:49,129 --> 00:15:51,470 when we use in our study 403 00:15:52,409 --> 00:15:54,990 term, protonics, we mean that extraction, 404 00:15:56,329 --> 00:15:56,829 separation, 405 00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:57,870 analysis, 406 00:15:58,649 --> 00:15:59,149 and 407 00:15:59,769 --> 00:16:00,269 translation 408 00:16:00,649 --> 00:16:01,149 from 409 00:16:02,654 --> 00:16:04,674 one database to another database 410 00:16:05,054 --> 00:16:05,955 and bring 411 00:16:06,415 --> 00:16:06,915 valuable 412 00:16:07,455 --> 00:16:11,315 results for end user. For example, for historians, 413 00:16:12,014 --> 00:16:12,514 need 414 00:16:12,975 --> 00:16:13,475 mostly 415 00:16:14,014 --> 00:16:14,514 identification 416 00:16:14,894 --> 00:16:15,394 of 417 00:16:16,459 --> 00:16:17,919 taxonomy of organism. 418 00:16:18,379 --> 00:16:21,279 This means that it's chicken or hippo or 419 00:16:21,419 --> 00:16:22,639 human being, etcetera. 420 00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:25,440 And, for humanist, they usually 421 00:16:25,819 --> 00:16:26,639 they require 422 00:16:27,659 --> 00:16:29,600 the, determination of taxonomy, 423 00:16:30,195 --> 00:16:33,415 condition environmental conditions and other things. 424 00:16:34,674 --> 00:16:36,375 In our in our case, 425 00:16:37,075 --> 00:16:37,815 we use 426 00:16:38,915 --> 00:16:39,415 bioinformatics 427 00:16:39,875 --> 00:16:40,615 for proteomics, 428 00:16:41,795 --> 00:16:43,575 which called protum informatics. 429 00:16:44,830 --> 00:16:47,309 And the much protumics data is collected with 430 00:16:47,309 --> 00:16:50,350 the help of high throughput technologies such as 431 00:16:50,350 --> 00:16:51,169 mass spectrometry 432 00:16:51,790 --> 00:16:53,649 and the various of, microarray 433 00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:54,610 techniques. 434 00:16:55,710 --> 00:16:58,610 Using bioinformatics techniques, researchers are capable 435 00:16:59,524 --> 00:17:01,625 of fast analysis and data storage. 436 00:17:02,164 --> 00:17:04,244 A good place to find the list of 437 00:17:04,244 --> 00:17:05,945 current programs in databases 438 00:17:06,565 --> 00:17:08,345 is in where some special, 439 00:17:09,684 --> 00:17:10,184 bioinformatics 440 00:17:10,724 --> 00:17:13,144 resource resource portals like Xpazy 441 00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:15,590 And applications, bioinformatics 442 00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:16,710 based proteomics 443 00:17:17,170 --> 00:17:18,630 include medicine, disease 444 00:17:19,250 --> 00:17:20,789 diagnosis, biomarker identification, 445 00:17:21,170 --> 00:17:21,830 the many 446 00:17:22,289 --> 00:17:24,950 more. In the in our case, we use 447 00:17:25,090 --> 00:17:25,830 all these 448 00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:26,710 medical, 449 00:17:27,615 --> 00:17:28,115 apply 450 00:17:29,134 --> 00:17:32,195 protonics applications for medicine field field 451 00:17:32,734 --> 00:17:34,195 for antique medicine. 452 00:17:34,894 --> 00:17:35,394 This 453 00:17:37,295 --> 00:17:41,380 new thing because we analyze not fresh from, 454 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,580 hospital for modern hospital. We use 455 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:45,700 a, 456 00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:48,180 a simple from 457 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:49,620 a medieval 458 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:50,740 kitchen. 459 00:17:53,434 --> 00:17:55,535 And, Gleb, I wanted to ask you about 460 00:17:55,674 --> 00:17:58,575 some of the interesting and perhaps unexpected 461 00:17:58,875 --> 00:18:00,255 things that you found 462 00:18:00,795 --> 00:18:02,795 in this study. I mean, a few minutes 463 00:18:02,795 --> 00:18:03,775 ago, you mentioned, 464 00:18:04,795 --> 00:18:05,535 a hippopotamus. 465 00:18:07,399 --> 00:18:09,559 I don't that that that that wasn't just 466 00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:12,359 a random animal that you've pulled off the 467 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,359 top of your head. Am I right in 468 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:15,079 thinking that, 469 00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:18,619 in this paper that you've written about, 470 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:20,539 these Renaissance 471 00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:21,339 books, 472 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:22,859 the hippopotamus, 473 00:18:23,934 --> 00:18:25,875 you you've have you detected 474 00:18:27,055 --> 00:18:29,795 evidence that parts of a hippopotamus 475 00:18:30,095 --> 00:18:32,575 were being used in medicine? Is is is 476 00:18:32,575 --> 00:18:33,315 that right? 477 00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:37,339 Well, first of all, 478 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:38,859 Hippopotamus, 479 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,339 it's, of course, it's, was 480 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,519 a very unexpected in the medieval Germany because, 481 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:45,660 you know, 482 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:46,859 some 483 00:18:49,815 --> 00:18:50,714 even before 484 00:18:51,414 --> 00:18:52,394 ice age, 485 00:18:52,855 --> 00:18:53,355 hippopotamus 486 00:18:54,855 --> 00:18:55,994 never were in, 487 00:18:56,775 --> 00:18:58,474 even continental even. 488 00:18:59,095 --> 00:18:59,494 And, 489 00:18:59,894 --> 00:19:00,394 but, 490 00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:02,539 you need 491 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:03,700 to 492 00:19:04,519 --> 00:19:06,220 first, you need to understand that, 493 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,419 medieval medicine, 494 00:19:10,599 --> 00:19:13,660 was a a result of 495 00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:14,940 a mixture 496 00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:15,819 of 497 00:19:16,434 --> 00:19:16,934 recipes 498 00:19:18,115 --> 00:19:18,615 from, 499 00:19:21,634 --> 00:19:23,255 Persia, from China, 500 00:19:23,555 --> 00:19:25,955 from Byzantium, and, from, 501 00:19:26,515 --> 00:19:27,015 Arabic 502 00:19:27,875 --> 00:19:30,434 countries. And, you know, it's a big it's 503 00:19:30,434 --> 00:19:31,345 a it's a 504 00:19:32,940 --> 00:19:33,759 this book 505 00:19:34,299 --> 00:19:35,299 at, from, 506 00:19:35,740 --> 00:19:36,240 Paratelsus' 507 00:19:37,179 --> 00:19:39,259 period when Paratelsus' first, 508 00:19:40,059 --> 00:19:40,960 non scholastic 509 00:19:41,420 --> 00:19:41,920 med 510 00:19:42,539 --> 00:19:43,039 medical 511 00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:45,119 doc doctor, 512 00:19:45,924 --> 00:19:47,245 destroy all of his, 513 00:19:47,684 --> 00:19:49,144 all previous scholastic 514 00:19:49,525 --> 00:19:50,025 medical 515 00:19:54,965 --> 00:19:55,465 medical 516 00:19:56,325 --> 00:19:56,825 approach. 517 00:19:57,205 --> 00:19:58,184 This means that 518 00:20:01,670 --> 00:20:02,490 all exotic 519 00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:04,170 materials like hippopotamus, 520 00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:05,210 like, 521 00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:06,970 lizards, like, 522 00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:11,049 you know, elephants and other things, 523 00:20:11,910 --> 00:20:12,650 and other animals, 524 00:20:17,294 --> 00:20:18,674 you use it for, 525 00:20:19,534 --> 00:20:20,514 medical comp 526 00:20:21,294 --> 00:20:23,954 use from for medical comp companies 527 00:20:24,255 --> 00:20:26,755 because European medicines have, 528 00:20:27,534 --> 00:20:28,410 roots from, 529 00:20:29,049 --> 00:20:30,269 oriental medicine 530 00:20:30,730 --> 00:20:33,630 and, from Byzantine medicine. This means that, 531 00:20:34,890 --> 00:20:35,789 this book 532 00:20:36,490 --> 00:20:36,990 contain 533 00:20:37,369 --> 00:20:38,509 a lot of translation 534 00:20:38,809 --> 00:20:39,130 from, 535 00:20:40,009 --> 00:20:40,509 oriental 536 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:42,590 notebooks, 537 00:20:43,035 --> 00:20:46,335 from oriental book and the manus medical manuscripts. 538 00:20:46,634 --> 00:20:47,595 And, of course, it was, 539 00:20:50,075 --> 00:20:50,815 they recommend 540 00:20:51,275 --> 00:20:52,414 that use, some 541 00:20:52,955 --> 00:20:55,134 for you exotic for, 542 00:20:55,755 --> 00:20:56,255 Europe, 543 00:20:57,369 --> 00:20:58,589 organisms like hippopotamus. 544 00:20:59,529 --> 00:21:00,429 And the 545 00:21:01,250 --> 00:21:01,289 of of 546 00:21:02,089 --> 00:21:03,150 and the Germany, 547 00:21:04,730 --> 00:21:05,390 for example, 548 00:21:06,809 --> 00:21:08,190 in the in Germany, 549 00:21:08,650 --> 00:21:09,710 New Nurburg 550 00:21:10,144 --> 00:21:10,884 and Augsburg 551 00:21:12,384 --> 00:21:12,784 were, 552 00:21:13,264 --> 00:21:14,464 famous centers of, 553 00:21:16,384 --> 00:21:16,884 trade 554 00:21:17,264 --> 00:21:17,764 between 555 00:21:18,464 --> 00:21:19,845 West and the East. 556 00:21:20,464 --> 00:21:21,605 And there are many, 557 00:21:22,544 --> 00:21:23,044 different 558 00:21:23,585 --> 00:21:24,085 commodities, 559 00:21:25,009 --> 00:21:25,909 exotic commodities 560 00:21:26,690 --> 00:21:27,190 arrived 561 00:21:28,369 --> 00:21:28,950 to medieval 562 00:21:29,250 --> 00:21:29,750 Germany 563 00:21:30,369 --> 00:21:32,230 and, for different, 564 00:21:33,730 --> 00:21:37,269 medical and, not and not only medical purposes. 565 00:21:37,845 --> 00:21:38,565 No. For example 566 00:21:39,444 --> 00:21:40,664 famous example, it's 567 00:21:42,365 --> 00:21:42,865 a, 568 00:21:44,804 --> 00:21:45,944 elephant bones. 569 00:21:47,525 --> 00:21:48,744 Because before, 570 00:21:49,444 --> 00:21:49,944 plastic, 571 00:21:50,859 --> 00:21:52,059 era, human 572 00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:54,399 people in Europe use, elephant 573 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:55,200 bones, 574 00:21:55,579 --> 00:21:55,819 and, 575 00:21:57,659 --> 00:21:59,279 it was not unusual. 576 00:21:59,659 --> 00:21:59,980 And, 577 00:22:00,619 --> 00:22:01,119 hippopotamus 578 00:22:02,539 --> 00:22:03,339 also was, 579 00:22:03,980 --> 00:22:04,480 probably, 580 00:22:06,164 --> 00:22:07,625 was a product 581 00:22:08,085 --> 00:22:08,585 commodity 582 00:22:09,285 --> 00:22:11,065 of trade between 583 00:22:11,445 --> 00:22:13,144 east and west. And then 584 00:22:13,765 --> 00:22:16,025 I didn't see that something unusual 585 00:22:16,485 --> 00:22:16,985 that, 586 00:22:17,924 --> 00:22:19,065 we fall we found 587 00:22:19,445 --> 00:22:20,184 the hippopotamus 588 00:22:20,940 --> 00:22:23,819 traces in on these pages. And these are 589 00:22:23,819 --> 00:22:24,319 still. 590 00:22:25,579 --> 00:22:27,839 And Gleb, I wanted to ask you about, 591 00:22:27,899 --> 00:22:30,059 you know, what you've learned, you and your 592 00:22:30,059 --> 00:22:32,319 colleagues, what you've learned about how people 593 00:22:33,019 --> 00:22:35,339 used this book. I mean, it sounds to 594 00:22:35,339 --> 00:22:36,194 me that this 595 00:22:36,755 --> 00:22:40,694 particular volume didn't sit on a dusty shelf 596 00:22:40,914 --> 00:22:41,414 somewhere, 597 00:22:42,514 --> 00:22:44,694 that it that people were using it 598 00:22:45,154 --> 00:22:45,815 a lot, 599 00:22:46,835 --> 00:22:48,134 to to treat 600 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:49,019 disease. 601 00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:50,679 It 602 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,640 is that your conclusion about this book that 603 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,059 it was very well thumbed? People, 604 00:22:56,839 --> 00:22:58,059 learned the concepts. 605 00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:00,920 Maybe they improved on some of the the 606 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,015 remedies that were in the book. Is that 607 00:23:03,255 --> 00:23:05,115 Did you get the feeling that people were, 608 00:23:06,695 --> 00:23:09,275 using the information and even perhaps experimenting 609 00:23:09,974 --> 00:23:11,275 on their own as well? 610 00:23:13,015 --> 00:23:13,515 Yeah. 611 00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:17,130 Well, first of all, Renaissance 612 00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:18,869 was a era of, 613 00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:19,930 experiments. 614 00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:22,950 And, I mean that, not, 615 00:23:23,509 --> 00:23:24,570 European Renaissance. 616 00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:27,450 And, because the scholastic 617 00:23:28,015 --> 00:23:30,674 science and the and the scholastic 618 00:23:31,134 --> 00:23:32,835 particularly scholastic medicine, 619 00:23:34,335 --> 00:23:36,835 it period it says in sixteenth century 620 00:23:37,694 --> 00:23:38,174 already 621 00:23:39,375 --> 00:23:40,674 was already finished. 622 00:23:41,134 --> 00:23:42,269 And people start 623 00:23:42,670 --> 00:23:44,049 experimentation, and they're, 624 00:23:45,630 --> 00:23:46,529 I think that, 625 00:23:47,070 --> 00:23:48,849 first first of all, this particular 626 00:23:49,630 --> 00:23:51,730 book was a manual for, 627 00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:52,930 common 628 00:23:53,309 --> 00:23:55,330 man and, for everyday, 629 00:23:56,509 --> 00:23:58,375 using. In the in Germany, 630 00:23:59,554 --> 00:24:00,774 in in in in Germany, 631 00:24:02,514 --> 00:24:05,554 people made the experimentation on the kitchen. I 632 00:24:05,554 --> 00:24:08,134 think that, quite often because 633 00:24:08,994 --> 00:24:10,534 not always, hippo 634 00:24:10,994 --> 00:24:13,319 thieves thieves or some lizards, 635 00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:16,279 they try to use some surrogates, 636 00:24:16,579 --> 00:24:17,559 some sort of 637 00:24:18,740 --> 00:24:22,679 materials to substitute of exotic materials to more 638 00:24:24,585 --> 00:24:25,805 to to more achievable, 639 00:24:30,105 --> 00:24:32,444 initial products and comp components. 640 00:24:33,065 --> 00:24:35,085 And, this book teach us 641 00:24:35,464 --> 00:24:36,365 that handwritten 642 00:24:37,785 --> 00:24:38,160 notes 643 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:39,759 with, 644 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,259 some modification of, 645 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:44,900 modifications 646 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,340 of recommended printed 647 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:49,220 recipes 648 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,720 is also very interest very interesting because people 649 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:53,865 try to make 650 00:24:54,424 --> 00:24:56,204 some sort of fine tuning 651 00:24:56,505 --> 00:24:57,325 or tuning 652 00:24:57,865 --> 00:24:58,605 for recipes. 653 00:24:58,984 --> 00:24:59,484 And, 654 00:25:01,224 --> 00:25:02,904 another thing I think, 655 00:25:03,304 --> 00:25:06,825 which very surprised for us that we didn't 656 00:25:06,825 --> 00:25:07,325 find 657 00:25:07,865 --> 00:25:08,765 the expected, 658 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:10,000 components 659 00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:12,639 because, for example, for 660 00:25:13,099 --> 00:25:13,599 higher, 661 00:25:14,619 --> 00:25:15,679 dime for 662 00:25:16,379 --> 00:25:18,159 for for higher dime, 663 00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:21,039 and, people didn't use basmat. 664 00:25:21,464 --> 00:25:23,464 Basma, it's for to make of, 665 00:25:24,105 --> 00:25:24,605 black 666 00:25:25,384 --> 00:25:26,924 color of, hairs. 667 00:25:28,664 --> 00:25:30,924 We paid a lot of attention to, 668 00:25:31,785 --> 00:25:32,285 identify 669 00:25:32,984 --> 00:25:33,964 famous companions, 670 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,299 famous from 671 00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:36,740 modern books, 672 00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:40,339 historical books, but we didn't find the classical, 673 00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:42,339 recipes 674 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,054 in these pages. This means that in the 675 00:25:47,134 --> 00:25:48,355 for example, for 676 00:25:48,734 --> 00:25:49,794 whitening of, 677 00:25:51,054 --> 00:25:51,554 hires, 678 00:25:51,855 --> 00:25:54,974 use lemon juice. We didn't find lemon, and 679 00:25:54,974 --> 00:25:56,034 they're also interesting. 680 00:25:56,734 --> 00:25:58,115 And there are many unexpected 681 00:25:58,654 --> 00:26:01,394 even in the these studies are very important, 682 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,539 even negative results. 683 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,820 Sometimes you expect you some some results, 684 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,400 but when you not receive these results, it's 685 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:10,900 also, 686 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:12,340 good 687 00:26:13,279 --> 00:26:13,779 to, 688 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:15,940 it's also 689 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:16,900 good 690 00:26:18,535 --> 00:26:19,035 good, 691 00:26:20,375 --> 00:26:22,035 think to make, 692 00:26:22,934 --> 00:26:23,434 some 693 00:26:23,815 --> 00:26:24,634 new conclusions. 694 00:26:26,215 --> 00:26:28,215 That's interesting. And, you know, I suppose when 695 00:26:28,215 --> 00:26:30,295 we think about the history of science and, 696 00:26:30,295 --> 00:26:31,434 you know, the Renaissance 697 00:26:32,570 --> 00:26:33,390 and the enlightenment 698 00:26:33,690 --> 00:26:34,190 era, 699 00:26:34,650 --> 00:26:36,570 we we tend to think of, you know, 700 00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:37,549 the big names. 701 00:26:38,089 --> 00:26:39,869 Like, oh, I don't know, Galileo, 702 00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:40,750 Copernicus, 703 00:26:42,330 --> 00:26:45,044 etcetera. But it it sounds to me like 704 00:26:45,044 --> 00:26:47,944 you've got a very interesting window into how 705 00:26:48,484 --> 00:26:50,585 sort of everyday people were 706 00:26:50,964 --> 00:26:51,464 experimenting, 707 00:26:53,365 --> 00:26:54,105 with things. 708 00:26:54,804 --> 00:26:56,664 And, you know, I suppose that could 709 00:26:57,079 --> 00:26:59,900 possibly shed some light on how those big 710 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:00,700 scientific 711 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,500 ideas 712 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,900 that were being developed were 713 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:05,740 sort of being embraced 714 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:06,619 by 715 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,400 by the population. Is I mean, is that 716 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,234 something that that could come out of studies 717 00:27:12,234 --> 00:27:13,455 of books like this? 718 00:27:15,275 --> 00:27:17,914 Yeah. It's a good point about the Galileo 719 00:27:17,914 --> 00:27:19,695 and the and other big names. 720 00:27:20,394 --> 00:27:21,695 Because for me, 721 00:27:22,394 --> 00:27:22,894 constantly, 722 00:27:23,914 --> 00:27:24,654 big question 723 00:27:24,955 --> 00:27:25,455 how 724 00:27:26,059 --> 00:27:27,039 almost blind, 725 00:27:28,299 --> 00:27:28,799 Galileo 726 00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:30,480 made the, 727 00:27:31,660 --> 00:27:33,519 first drawings of, moon 728 00:27:33,980 --> 00:27:34,640 on the, 729 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:36,380 not perfect, 730 00:27:36,859 --> 00:27:37,359 telescope 731 00:27:37,819 --> 00:27:38,319 observation. 732 00:27:39,019 --> 00:27:40,154 The observations by 733 00:27:41,755 --> 00:27:43,134 a not perfect telescope. 734 00:27:44,315 --> 00:27:46,095 For example, in our 735 00:27:46,474 --> 00:27:48,575 parallel project, which we 736 00:27:49,434 --> 00:27:51,215 can start started, 737 00:27:52,154 --> 00:27:52,654 about 738 00:27:53,115 --> 00:27:53,615 English 739 00:27:56,369 --> 00:27:56,869 astronomers, 740 00:27:58,049 --> 00:27:58,710 who work 741 00:27:59,089 --> 00:28:00,549 in the Dutch astronomers 742 00:28:01,329 --> 00:28:04,069 who work in the same period as Galileo 743 00:28:04,609 --> 00:28:05,650 and what kind of, 744 00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:07,670 astronomical 745 00:28:08,049 --> 00:28:11,255 observation they did in the first telescopes because, 746 00:28:11,575 --> 00:28:13,755 Galileo and the Dutch, 747 00:28:15,134 --> 00:28:15,634 the 748 00:28:17,015 --> 00:28:17,835 Dutch opticians, 749 00:28:18,775 --> 00:28:20,474 work in the same time 750 00:28:20,855 --> 00:28:22,075 with a very, 751 00:28:23,345 --> 00:28:23,845 narrow 752 00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:29,029 in in a very in a very narrow 753 00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:30,089 time period for 754 00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:32,069 each other. And, 755 00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:35,609 for example, the Leo was 756 00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:36,890 sick with 757 00:28:37,349 --> 00:28:37,815 ice 758 00:28:38,294 --> 00:28:38,794 disease, 759 00:28:39,335 --> 00:28:41,434 and they're very interesting to check, 760 00:28:42,534 --> 00:28:43,034 Galileo 761 00:28:43,414 --> 00:28:47,514 telescopes from, Galileo Museum in, Florence, for example. 762 00:28:48,054 --> 00:28:48,554 Or 763 00:28:50,429 --> 00:28:50,929 also 764 00:28:51,630 --> 00:28:52,130 check 765 00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:54,210 condition 766 00:28:54,509 --> 00:28:57,789 health conditions of Gallio in from personal manuscript 767 00:28:57,950 --> 00:29:00,450 handwritten manuscripts of Gallio from, 768 00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:01,964 Florence archive, 769 00:29:02,365 --> 00:29:04,944 city archive. It's also interesting subject. 770 00:29:05,565 --> 00:29:06,065 It's, 771 00:29:06,765 --> 00:29:09,085 of course, it's this period of, 772 00:29:09,644 --> 00:29:10,144 renaissance 773 00:29:10,525 --> 00:29:11,904 was a very 774 00:29:12,765 --> 00:29:13,265 intensive 775 00:29:15,609 --> 00:29:16,109 experimentation, 776 00:29:16,730 --> 00:29:19,869 not only in physics, but also in medicine. 777 00:29:20,730 --> 00:29:21,549 Now we 778 00:29:22,089 --> 00:29:24,829 use a very more very, you know, 779 00:29:26,890 --> 00:29:29,390 modern term is a personalized personalized 780 00:29:29,929 --> 00:29:30,429 medicine. 781 00:29:31,224 --> 00:29:32,125 Personalized medicine 782 00:29:32,585 --> 00:29:35,724 started the Renaissance period when each 783 00:29:37,544 --> 00:29:38,444 common man, 784 00:29:39,224 --> 00:29:40,924 made the experiment on the kitchen. 785 00:29:42,105 --> 00:29:43,164 And and, Gleb, 786 00:29:44,024 --> 00:29:46,845 you started out, your career as a physicist. 787 00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:47,359 And, 788 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,859 you know, I think some of our listeners 789 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,600 may be thinking, wow. This is, you know, 790 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,180 fascinating work that Gleb and his colleagues 791 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,859 have done. If if I'm in physics now, 792 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,460 how could I get 793 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,085 involved in this sort of research? So could 794 00:30:03,085 --> 00:30:04,765 could you maybe just let us know how 795 00:30:04,765 --> 00:30:06,625 you went from being a physicist 796 00:30:07,484 --> 00:30:10,305 to being somebody who is involved in multidisciplinary 797 00:30:11,805 --> 00:30:13,904 studies of of Renaissance 798 00:30:14,365 --> 00:30:14,819 books? 799 00:30:16,019 --> 00:30:16,759 I graduated, 800 00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:18,200 in 801 00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:19,880 Novosibir State University 802 00:30:20,579 --> 00:30:22,279 in Russia in 803 00:30:22,819 --> 00:30:23,960 1994, 804 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:26,679 and, I graduated in 805 00:30:27,075 --> 00:30:28,774 quantum optics department. 806 00:30:29,474 --> 00:30:31,255 And the quantum optics, 807 00:30:32,515 --> 00:30:35,075 it was a very unique department because, 808 00:30:36,274 --> 00:30:37,875 showed of this department, 809 00:30:38,355 --> 00:30:39,974 professor Sergey Rotyan, 810 00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:42,980 bring us many historical, 811 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:44,500 anecdotes 812 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:45,359 about, 813 00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:47,380 how to use, 814 00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:48,500 for example, 815 00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:50,740 Roman games 816 00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:53,460 for a first experience of 817 00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:57,984 nonlinear optics. It was very interesting because, physicists 818 00:30:58,605 --> 00:31:00,944 use historical objects for 819 00:31:02,765 --> 00:31:03,744 physical experiments 820 00:31:04,285 --> 00:31:05,105 quite often. 821 00:31:05,644 --> 00:31:07,259 And, it was, like, 822 00:31:07,579 --> 00:31:08,720 initial anecdotal, 823 00:31:09,339 --> 00:31:09,839 motivation. 824 00:31:10,779 --> 00:31:12,059 And, later on, 825 00:31:12,940 --> 00:31:13,680 I met 826 00:31:15,099 --> 00:31:18,160 with, professor Pierre Giorgio Riggetti from Milano Polytechnica. 827 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:20,240 He is 828 00:31:21,099 --> 00:31:22,444 a very big 829 00:31:23,625 --> 00:31:24,924 name in proteomics 830 00:31:25,304 --> 00:31:26,125 and biochemistry, 831 00:31:27,384 --> 00:31:28,845 and he is constantly, 832 00:31:30,024 --> 00:31:31,704 involved for for different, 833 00:31:32,105 --> 00:31:32,605 cultural 834 00:31:33,144 --> 00:31:33,644 and 835 00:31:34,105 --> 00:31:34,605 historical 836 00:31:36,424 --> 00:31:36,924 projects. 837 00:31:37,549 --> 00:31:39,970 And, we work with a practice regulator 838 00:31:40,589 --> 00:31:42,210 last twenty seven years. 839 00:31:42,670 --> 00:31:45,329 And, cost and, most of our our 840 00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:46,769 work is 841 00:31:47,150 --> 00:31:48,450 application of proteomics 842 00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:50,369 and the other biochemical 843 00:31:50,829 --> 00:31:51,315 technique, 844 00:31:52,034 --> 00:31:55,974 new biochemical technique for culture heritage and historical 845 00:31:56,115 --> 00:31:56,615 objects. 846 00:31:57,394 --> 00:31:59,875 I develop sales reps and develop new analysis 847 00:31:59,875 --> 00:32:01,014 methods and materials 848 00:32:01,394 --> 00:32:02,134 for biotechnology, 849 00:32:03,234 --> 00:32:03,734 with 850 00:32:05,234 --> 00:32:07,014 a biggest part of my 851 00:32:07,580 --> 00:32:08,080 activity 852 00:32:08,539 --> 00:32:09,200 for last, 853 00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:10,960 thirty years. 854 00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:13,759 And, I was interested to 855 00:32:14,299 --> 00:32:17,440 in how to obtain additional and hidden information 856 00:32:17,580 --> 00:32:20,720 from books, historical documents, and museum 857 00:32:21,075 --> 00:32:21,575 objects. 858 00:32:22,274 --> 00:32:23,174 These material 859 00:32:23,554 --> 00:32:27,255 objects contain valuable historical and humanitarian information. 860 00:32:28,755 --> 00:32:31,575 This information can be extracted from, visa, 861 00:32:32,835 --> 00:32:33,315 valuable 862 00:32:33,634 --> 00:32:34,774 from from visa, 863 00:32:36,274 --> 00:32:36,690 objects, 864 00:32:37,089 --> 00:32:38,869 from documents in the books. 865 00:32:39,409 --> 00:32:42,769 I began developing new devices and technologies for 866 00:32:42,769 --> 00:32:43,509 such interdisciplinary 867 00:32:44,450 --> 00:32:44,950 research. 868 00:32:45,809 --> 00:32:47,349 This is especially relevant 869 00:32:48,129 --> 00:32:50,309 now in the age of AI, 870 00:32:50,634 --> 00:32:51,134 artificial 871 00:32:51,835 --> 00:32:53,694 intelligence, is a new interface between 872 00:32:54,075 --> 00:32:54,974 human being, 873 00:32:55,434 --> 00:32:55,934 artificial 874 00:32:56,234 --> 00:32:56,734 intelligence, 875 00:32:57,035 --> 00:32:58,414 AI, and computers 876 00:32:59,035 --> 00:33:01,194 are required, and the all of these are 877 00:33:01,194 --> 00:33:01,694 required. 878 00:33:02,875 --> 00:33:07,009 We have essentially created an interface between modern 879 00:33:07,009 --> 00:33:10,549 user and, an ancient book or object. 880 00:33:11,009 --> 00:33:14,230 This is a new level of object digitization 881 00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:15,990 historical 882 00:33:16,609 --> 00:33:17,750 object digitization. 883 00:33:19,544 --> 00:33:21,404 We call it, biochemical 884 00:33:22,105 --> 00:33:22,605 digitization. 885 00:33:23,144 --> 00:33:24,284 Using these interfaces, 886 00:33:24,904 --> 00:33:28,444 we provide information about biological and chemical composition 887 00:33:29,224 --> 00:33:32,924 of an object to AI, to artificial intelligence. 888 00:33:33,889 --> 00:33:35,809 Currently, the digitization of, 889 00:33:36,450 --> 00:33:39,190 museum objects and culture heritage sites 890 00:33:39,569 --> 00:33:40,710 primarily involve 891 00:33:41,329 --> 00:33:43,509 involves audio and video information, 892 00:33:44,210 --> 00:33:46,549 but we provide biological and chemical 893 00:33:47,169 --> 00:33:47,669 digitization. 894 00:33:49,235 --> 00:33:50,134 Incident objects, 895 00:33:50,914 --> 00:33:51,414 data 896 00:33:52,434 --> 00:33:52,934 repositories 897 00:33:53,235 --> 00:33:54,695 that can be decoded. 898 00:33:55,555 --> 00:33:56,855 The data digit 899 00:33:57,955 --> 00:34:00,934 digitized and used for a variety of purposes. 900 00:34:01,475 --> 00:34:02,215 For example, 901 00:34:02,674 --> 00:34:03,575 it's a good 902 00:34:04,380 --> 00:34:05,759 source for OpenAI, 903 00:34:06,220 --> 00:34:06,720 much 904 00:34:07,259 --> 00:34:07,920 and other 905 00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:11,840 human 906 00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:12,800 AI 907 00:34:15,019 --> 00:34:15,519 interfaces. 908 00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:16,394 This is 909 00:34:17,195 --> 00:34:21,375 object objective information about bygone errors and events. 910 00:34:22,315 --> 00:34:22,635 And, 911 00:34:25,275 --> 00:34:27,375 for I collaborate with 912 00:34:28,715 --> 00:34:29,215 my, 913 00:34:30,954 --> 00:34:31,855 with other colleagues, 914 00:34:32,660 --> 00:34:34,039 professor Leonid Fruman 915 00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:34,840 from, 916 00:34:35,860 --> 00:34:37,720 Nocibbe University University and 917 00:34:38,420 --> 00:34:39,880 professor Emmanuel Baskin, 918 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:41,000 he's 919 00:34:41,460 --> 00:34:42,519 a expert in, 920 00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:45,800 theory of Soviet state physics. 921 00:34:46,420 --> 00:34:46,739 And, 922 00:34:47,474 --> 00:34:49,015 all these colleagues 923 00:34:49,555 --> 00:34:50,055 constantly 924 00:34:50,515 --> 00:34:51,015 interested 925 00:34:51,315 --> 00:34:54,135 in history and how to use of different 926 00:34:56,434 --> 00:34:57,414 physical techniques 927 00:34:57,715 --> 00:34:58,215 for 928 00:34:58,755 --> 00:34:59,255 this, 929 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:02,079 you know, nonstop, 930 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:05,300 humanist 931 00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:06,579 applications. 932 00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:07,920 It means that, 933 00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:09,539 we are not 934 00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:10,820 so strange 935 00:35:11,359 --> 00:35:11,859 guys 936 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,659 who try to analyze books 937 00:35:15,515 --> 00:35:18,335 just for fun. We have some very, 938 00:35:19,515 --> 00:35:20,015 clear 939 00:35:20,555 --> 00:35:21,055 and 940 00:35:21,594 --> 00:35:22,655 pragmatic purpose 941 00:35:23,114 --> 00:35:24,494 how to make interface 942 00:35:25,035 --> 00:35:25,535 between, 943 00:35:26,715 --> 00:35:27,215 antique 944 00:35:29,219 --> 00:35:31,719 data center. It's been it's a business 945 00:35:32,340 --> 00:35:33,639 sounds it's it's book. 946 00:35:34,260 --> 00:35:35,239 And the modern, 947 00:35:36,539 --> 00:35:37,139 the mass 948 00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:38,840 computing machines. 949 00:35:39,380 --> 00:35:40,840 This means that we create, 950 00:35:41,859 --> 00:35:42,359 some 951 00:35:42,659 --> 00:35:44,244 new level of CSYNC 952 00:35:45,184 --> 00:35:47,525 to make of new level of computing 953 00:35:48,224 --> 00:35:48,965 of a biochemical 954 00:35:49,265 --> 00:35:51,125 data and to make bridge 955 00:35:51,425 --> 00:35:51,925 between, 956 00:35:52,625 --> 00:35:53,125 humanist 957 00:35:53,505 --> 00:35:54,525 and the, 958 00:35:55,344 --> 00:35:56,730 exact in the life sciences. 959 00:35:57,210 --> 00:35:58,190 These are 960 00:35:58,489 --> 00:35:59,230 our purposes. 961 00:36:00,250 --> 00:36:02,269 And, Glenn, before I let you go, 962 00:36:02,809 --> 00:36:04,650 I wanted to ask you about, you know, 963 00:36:04,650 --> 00:36:06,889 future work and what you're working on at 964 00:36:06,889 --> 00:36:08,190 the moment. You mentioned 965 00:36:10,255 --> 00:36:10,755 Galileo, 966 00:36:11,855 --> 00:36:13,875 and English and Dutch 967 00:36:14,175 --> 00:36:14,675 astronomers. 968 00:36:15,054 --> 00:36:17,614 Is there anything else that you're looking at 969 00:36:17,614 --> 00:36:19,795 at the moment? Any manuscripts or 970 00:36:20,335 --> 00:36:21,394 ancient objects? 971 00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:23,630 What are you doing at the moment? 972 00:36:25,369 --> 00:36:27,389 No. Be before then I start 973 00:36:28,809 --> 00:36:30,650 the answer to this question, I would like 974 00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:31,150 to, 975 00:36:32,969 --> 00:36:33,469 may 976 00:36:34,244 --> 00:36:37,464 make a great thanks to professor Stefan Hans 977 00:36:37,764 --> 00:36:38,264 who 978 00:36:38,724 --> 00:36:41,204 was the initiator of, VIS and the who 979 00:36:41,204 --> 00:36:41,944 was a, 980 00:36:42,324 --> 00:36:43,384 principal investigator, 981 00:36:44,164 --> 00:36:44,664 with 982 00:36:45,674 --> 00:36:46,505 a, particular 983 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,980 study of, this renaissance book in the, 984 00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:52,099 doctor 985 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:52,900 Samantha 986 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,500 Grievs from 987 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,019 York University who who made full analytical 988 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:00,820 work. 989 00:37:02,405 --> 00:37:03,304 Our part 990 00:37:03,605 --> 00:37:04,105 might 991 00:37:05,045 --> 00:37:07,784 my colleagues and, Svetlana Zivgierstein, 992 00:37:08,565 --> 00:37:09,605 who made the, 993 00:37:10,085 --> 00:37:12,804 supervision in production and the creation of this 994 00:37:12,804 --> 00:37:15,065 EVO technology industry was 995 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:16,900 involved as, 996 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,180 for interpretation of results and to professor professor 997 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,539 Pier Giorgio Righetti, 998 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:24,579 who was 999 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:27,200 a is a 1000 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:28,980 who was a participant 1001 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,474 in the EVA technology side. 1002 00:37:32,855 --> 00:37:35,355 And, I would like to answer from 1003 00:37:35,655 --> 00:37:37,355 our team side what kind of, 1004 00:37:38,375 --> 00:37:38,875 projects. 1005 00:37:39,815 --> 00:37:41,675 Well, first of all, Galileo, 1006 00:37:42,614 --> 00:37:43,355 in the 1007 00:37:43,815 --> 00:37:45,514 we call it we call it as 1008 00:37:46,110 --> 00:37:46,610 competition 1009 00:37:47,150 --> 00:37:47,650 between, 1010 00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:50,289 like, a star 1011 00:37:50,670 --> 00:37:53,570 glass wars, we call this project. Star wars 1012 00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:54,849 stars 1013 00:37:55,150 --> 00:37:55,650 stars 1014 00:37:56,190 --> 00:37:56,690 war 1015 00:37:57,070 --> 00:37:57,570 stars 1016 00:37:57,950 --> 00:37:59,525 glass war because, 1017 00:38:01,264 --> 00:38:03,924 we try to understand the recipe 1018 00:38:04,545 --> 00:38:05,444 of glasses, 1019 00:38:06,784 --> 00:38:11,045 glasses and glasses for Galileo telescope, for Dutch 1020 00:38:11,105 --> 00:38:11,605 telescopes 1021 00:38:11,905 --> 00:38:12,630 and the 1022 00:38:13,269 --> 00:38:15,130 Dutch telescopes which use, 1023 00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:18,329 English astronomers to observation of, 1024 00:38:18,949 --> 00:38:21,769 first observation. So for in the recording of 1025 00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:22,329 moon, 1026 00:38:22,949 --> 00:38:23,449 images. 1027 00:38:23,989 --> 00:38:24,230 And, 1028 00:38:26,605 --> 00:38:27,105 also, 1029 00:38:28,204 --> 00:38:31,905 we're looking for to develop project for Galileo 1030 00:38:32,364 --> 00:38:33,025 health conditions 1031 00:38:33,724 --> 00:38:35,105 because Galileo was 1032 00:38:36,204 --> 00:38:36,785 a very 1033 00:38:39,179 --> 00:38:41,359 secret period of, this, 1034 00:38:43,579 --> 00:38:44,079 this, 1035 00:38:44,699 --> 00:38:45,199 this, 1036 00:38:45,980 --> 00:38:46,420 first, 1037 00:38:46,859 --> 00:38:47,359 moon 1038 00:38:47,659 --> 00:38:48,159 moon 1039 00:38:49,179 --> 00:38:49,679 observations. 1040 00:38:50,139 --> 00:38:52,319 And the same was with English 1041 00:38:52,619 --> 00:38:54,719 astronomer. He was sick with 1042 00:38:55,554 --> 00:38:58,434 some, type of cancer, and they needed to 1043 00:38:58,434 --> 00:38:58,934 check 1044 00:39:00,195 --> 00:39:02,135 health conditions for for both, 1045 00:39:03,155 --> 00:39:03,655 astronomers. 1046 00:39:04,515 --> 00:39:07,094 And the another project which we 1047 00:39:07,474 --> 00:39:09,414 which are closer to, 1048 00:39:10,670 --> 00:39:11,170 physics, 1049 00:39:11,950 --> 00:39:13,250 and maybe 1050 00:39:13,710 --> 00:39:15,170 for Kerouos, we 1051 00:39:15,950 --> 00:39:18,289 open project for analysis of, 1052 00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:21,150 logbooks of, 1053 00:39:21,710 --> 00:39:22,094 ships 1054 00:39:22,815 --> 00:39:25,795 was contingent which made the, transcontinental, 1055 00:39:27,454 --> 00:39:27,954 voyages 1056 00:39:29,215 --> 00:39:30,994 between America and 1057 00:39:31,295 --> 00:39:31,795 the 1058 00:39:32,175 --> 00:39:33,315 Europe and the 1059 00:39:34,094 --> 00:39:35,715 and from Europe to Asia 1060 00:39:36,449 --> 00:39:36,949 with 1061 00:39:37,650 --> 00:39:38,150 objects, 1062 00:39:39,489 --> 00:39:40,449 logbooks that bring, 1063 00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:43,269 information about, 1064 00:39:44,929 --> 00:39:46,389 circulation of diseases, 1065 00:39:47,889 --> 00:39:48,389 epidemias, 1066 00:39:48,769 --> 00:39:49,269 and 1067 00:39:49,795 --> 00:39:51,894 bring information about environmental 1068 00:39:52,434 --> 00:39:52,934 conditions. 1069 00:39:53,875 --> 00:39:56,775 And particularly, we open project for slave 1070 00:39:57,155 --> 00:39:57,655 ships 1071 00:39:57,954 --> 00:39:58,454 logbooks 1072 00:39:59,315 --> 00:40:03,269 because, it's also important for humanity humanities to 1073 00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:04,630 understand of, 1074 00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:08,489 what happened in the slave 1075 00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:12,489 ships at period of, slave trades. 1076 00:40:13,269 --> 00:40:16,730 And then another project which also open in 1077 00:40:17,964 --> 00:40:18,625 in our 1078 00:40:19,164 --> 00:40:22,224 which in our pipe pipeline, it's 1079 00:40:23,005 --> 00:40:23,984 Nikola Tesla, 1080 00:40:25,244 --> 00:40:25,744 documents. 1081 00:40:26,764 --> 00:40:28,144 It's a with 1082 00:40:28,764 --> 00:40:31,184 Serbian g Serbian American genius. 1083 00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:33,010 And so, 1084 00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:34,250 have a very 1085 00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:35,210 intrigues 1086 00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:36,730 in the interesting, 1087 00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:39,210 legacy 1088 00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:42,010 which needed to understand not only 1089 00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:43,349 from, 1090 00:40:43,989 --> 00:40:47,704 analysis of, text. Not only from textual analysis, 1091 00:40:47,704 --> 00:40:50,204 but also from biochemical analysis. 1092 00:40:50,585 --> 00:40:53,625 Nikola Tesla, it's also he's also part of 1093 00:40:53,625 --> 00:40:54,125 our 1094 00:40:54,744 --> 00:40:55,244 ambitious 1095 00:40:56,025 --> 00:40:56,525 project, 1096 00:40:57,065 --> 00:40:58,765 which we started from Alessandra 1097 00:40:59,065 --> 00:41:00,925 Volta. You know, as before, 1098 00:41:01,650 --> 00:41:02,630 Alessandro Volta 1099 00:41:03,089 --> 00:41:03,589 personal 1100 00:41:03,889 --> 00:41:06,150 handwritten documents and sketches from 1101 00:41:06,530 --> 00:41:07,989 Lombardia Science Institute 1102 00:41:08,289 --> 00:41:09,429 with in Milano. 1103 00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:10,449 And, 1104 00:41:11,969 --> 00:41:14,369 Nikola Tesla, I think that, one of the 1105 00:41:14,369 --> 00:41:14,869 interesting, 1106 00:41:18,464 --> 00:41:18,704 historical, 1107 00:41:19,824 --> 00:41:20,324 person 1108 00:41:20,625 --> 00:41:21,125 which 1109 00:41:22,065 --> 00:41:23,284 interesting to analyze. 1110 00:41:23,664 --> 00:41:24,164 And, 1111 00:41:25,505 --> 00:41:26,724 also, we continue 1112 00:41:27,264 --> 00:41:28,405 work with Leonardo, 1113 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:31,300 Da Vinci, 1114 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:32,340 Legacy. 1115 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:33,860 We made before 1116 00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:36,179 analysis of, Leonardo, 1117 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,099 painting, which call 1118 00:41:41,454 --> 00:41:42,494 Dona Nude from, 1119 00:41:43,135 --> 00:41:45,315 government Hermitage in Saint Petersburg. 1120 00:41:46,574 --> 00:41:48,114 It was a unique journey. 1121 00:41:48,574 --> 00:41:49,295 We receive, 1122 00:41:49,934 --> 00:41:50,835 access to, 1123 00:41:52,655 --> 00:41:53,840 take sampling 1124 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:55,680 samples from full, 1125 00:41:56,380 --> 00:41:56,880 area 1126 00:41:57,340 --> 00:41:57,840 of, 1127 00:41:58,220 --> 00:41:59,039 Dona Nude. 1128 00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:02,220 And then we published article about this, and, 1129 00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:04,000 we found the unexpected 1130 00:42:06,585 --> 00:42:07,085 components 1131 00:42:07,385 --> 00:42:07,885 which, 1132 00:42:09,385 --> 00:42:09,885 didn't 1133 00:42:11,304 --> 00:42:11,804 mention 1134 00:42:12,264 --> 00:42:13,405 famous Vasari. 1135 00:42:13,704 --> 00:42:14,204 Vasari, 1136 00:42:14,824 --> 00:42:16,445 he is very famous, 1137 00:42:17,144 --> 00:42:19,005 renaissance artist who wrote 1138 00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:20,619 a book about 1139 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:22,380 Renaissance 1140 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:24,140 period 1141 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:26,280 artists in the, 1142 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,619 techniques of painting. 1143 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,079 And, this direction for analysis of art objects, 1144 00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:33,579 it's 1145 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:34,380 very 1146 00:42:35,285 --> 00:42:36,265 interesting because, 1147 00:42:37,845 --> 00:42:38,985 last period, another, 1148 00:42:39,845 --> 00:42:40,345 physicist, 1149 00:42:40,724 --> 00:42:42,425 Falco from our Arkansas. 1150 00:42:43,925 --> 00:42:44,425 And, 1151 00:42:44,885 --> 00:42:45,945 together with 1152 00:42:47,539 --> 00:42:49,159 famous British artist 1153 00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:50,280 Hockney, 1154 00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:52,599 they both made 1155 00:42:53,059 --> 00:42:53,639 a hypothesis 1156 00:42:54,179 --> 00:42:54,920 which call 1157 00:42:55,219 --> 00:42:56,280 Falco Hockney 1158 00:42:56,980 --> 00:42:57,480 about 1159 00:42:58,179 --> 00:42:58,760 using optical 1160 00:42:59,059 --> 00:42:59,559 devices 1161 00:43:00,179 --> 00:43:00,679 for 1162 00:43:01,059 --> 00:43:02,519 precise and very 1163 00:43:03,945 --> 00:43:04,445 fine, 1164 00:43:05,385 --> 00:43:05,885 high 1165 00:43:06,265 --> 00:43:07,805 high quality of painting. 1166 00:43:08,505 --> 00:43:09,644 And then we develop 1167 00:43:09,945 --> 00:43:10,445 with, 1168 00:43:11,945 --> 00:43:12,925 Falco Hockney 1169 00:43:15,059 --> 00:43:15,559 hypothesis 1170 00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:16,579 and, 1171 00:43:17,780 --> 00:43:18,280 modify 1172 00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:19,380 to, 1173 00:43:19,940 --> 00:43:20,440 use, 1174 00:43:21,940 --> 00:43:23,000 to modify to, 1175 00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:25,320 modify by using for, 1176 00:43:26,099 --> 00:43:26,599 photopolymerization. 1177 00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:32,025 And it means that Foulcore and Hockney bring, 1178 00:43:33,445 --> 00:43:35,945 optical part, and we provided 1179 00:43:37,204 --> 00:43:39,065 some, renaissance period, 1180 00:43:39,844 --> 00:43:42,425 photographic part. Photographic part because 1181 00:43:43,769 --> 00:43:44,750 we found in 1182 00:43:45,610 --> 00:43:46,110 Leonardo, 1183 00:43:46,969 --> 00:43:47,469 painting, 1184 00:43:50,090 --> 00:43:51,949 the reasons which easily 1185 00:43:52,969 --> 00:43:53,469 photopolymerized 1186 00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:55,309 under light, 1187 00:43:55,930 --> 00:43:56,430 illumination. 1188 00:43:57,315 --> 00:43:57,815 And, 1189 00:43:58,675 --> 00:44:00,295 obviously, also very provocative, 1190 00:44:01,315 --> 00:44:02,214 idea to, 1191 00:44:03,234 --> 00:44:03,734 bring, 1192 00:44:04,755 --> 00:44:05,974 a renaissance period 1193 00:44:06,434 --> 00:44:06,934 photography. 1194 00:44:07,394 --> 00:44:08,135 I mean, 1195 00:44:08,675 --> 00:44:09,734 based on the photopolymerization 1196 00:44:10,434 --> 00:44:11,655 through Farco, 1197 00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:16,170 HOKNI optical devices, 1198 00:44:16,869 --> 00:44:17,690 which they, 1199 00:44:19,269 --> 00:44:19,989 believes that, 1200 00:44:20,469 --> 00:44:22,489 use at the renaissance period. 1201 00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:23,429 And, 1202 00:44:24,644 --> 00:44:25,784 also, Michelangelo, 1203 00:44:26,324 --> 00:44:27,065 it's also 1204 00:44:28,164 --> 00:44:29,385 part of our activity 1205 00:44:30,085 --> 00:44:30,985 in, Florence 1206 00:44:32,085 --> 00:44:32,585 because 1207 00:44:35,364 --> 00:44:35,864 Michelangelo 1208 00:44:36,244 --> 00:44:37,144 and Bernini 1209 00:44:37,605 --> 00:44:38,105 later 1210 00:44:38,589 --> 00:44:39,969 use of, some 1211 00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:41,170 important 1212 00:44:41,949 --> 00:44:43,809 and interesting and unknown 1213 00:44:44,670 --> 00:44:45,170 physical, 1214 00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:47,409 tools and the physical, 1215 00:44:48,829 --> 00:44:49,329 observations 1216 00:44:49,789 --> 00:44:50,750 to create of, 1217 00:44:51,710 --> 00:44:52,210 this 1218 00:44:56,614 --> 00:44:58,795 this sculptures in the also 1219 00:44:59,094 --> 00:44:59,594 interesting 1220 00:45:01,175 --> 00:45:02,954 field of application for 1221 00:45:03,414 --> 00:45:05,434 our technology and, for 1222 00:45:05,894 --> 00:45:06,715 our approach. 1223 00:45:07,335 --> 00:45:08,155 And the 1224 00:45:10,070 --> 00:45:13,289 last year, we've contacted in contacted with 1225 00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:14,250 French 1226 00:45:14,789 --> 00:45:17,130 Academy of Science, and we received, 1227 00:45:18,469 --> 00:45:19,769 some initial interest 1228 00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:21,030 to check of, 1229 00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:24,809 French Academy of Science archives. 1230 00:45:25,474 --> 00:45:27,655 And we are in a period of, 1231 00:45:28,594 --> 00:45:29,574 in a period of 1232 00:45:30,195 --> 00:45:32,614 of discussions about this possibility 1233 00:45:33,235 --> 00:45:33,894 to make 1234 00:45:34,594 --> 00:45:37,815 a pro project with French Academy of Science, 1235 00:45:38,434 --> 00:45:39,414 to check off 1236 00:45:39,869 --> 00:45:40,769 famous scientists 1237 00:45:41,150 --> 00:45:43,329 French scientist doc documents. 1238 00:45:43,630 --> 00:45:44,130 And, 1239 00:45:49,710 --> 00:45:52,049 one of the example when we use 1240 00:45:52,574 --> 00:45:53,315 our technology, 1241 00:45:54,574 --> 00:45:57,155 in Russian Academy of Science before, 1242 00:45:58,734 --> 00:46:00,355 and, we made the, 1243 00:46:01,054 --> 00:46:03,714 analysis of, Erlang Kepler documents. 1244 00:46:04,335 --> 00:46:05,315 And we identify, 1245 00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:10,829 doc traces of alchemical elements in web pages 1246 00:46:11,369 --> 00:46:11,869 of 1247 00:46:12,250 --> 00:46:12,750 handwritten, 1248 00:46:13,610 --> 00:46:14,110 manuscripts 1249 00:46:14,730 --> 00:46:14,890 of, 1250 00:46:15,610 --> 00:46:17,470 Jurgen Kipler. This interesting 1251 00:46:17,849 --> 00:46:20,250 story with, Jurgen Kipler because, 1252 00:46:22,494 --> 00:46:23,315 still more 1253 00:46:23,614 --> 00:46:24,114 access 1254 00:46:25,375 --> 00:46:26,114 to digitize 1255 00:46:26,414 --> 00:46:27,394 even digitize 1256 00:46:28,015 --> 00:46:30,114 copies of this archive. 1257 00:46:30,655 --> 00:46:31,715 And then if you, 1258 00:46:32,655 --> 00:46:33,929 make a visit 1259 00:46:34,329 --> 00:46:36,750 to Visa archive and check, you will find 1260 00:46:37,210 --> 00:46:40,429 so many drawings and figures and some 1261 00:46:40,809 --> 00:46:41,309 unknown, 1262 00:46:43,369 --> 00:46:45,389 scientific instruments which which 1263 00:46:47,664 --> 00:46:48,164 propose 1264 00:46:48,625 --> 00:46:49,525 in the recorded 1265 00:46:49,904 --> 00:46:50,724 Ergod keeper. 1266 00:46:51,664 --> 00:46:53,364 This another thing, which, 1267 00:46:55,105 --> 00:46:56,085 close to, 1268 00:46:56,704 --> 00:46:57,204 physics. 1269 00:46:57,664 --> 00:47:00,144 And the NASA subject, Albert Einstein, I think, 1270 00:47:00,144 --> 00:47:00,644 because 1271 00:47:01,904 --> 00:47:02,724 we we 1272 00:47:04,030 --> 00:47:04,530 it's 1273 00:47:05,069 --> 00:47:06,690 a in the you know, 1274 00:47:07,710 --> 00:47:09,489 Jyn's production company, 1275 00:47:11,389 --> 00:47:11,889 Levi's, 1276 00:47:13,549 --> 00:47:16,130 they they have a in they have museum, 1277 00:47:16,815 --> 00:47:18,014 and they store of, 1278 00:47:18,574 --> 00:47:19,315 shirt of, 1279 00:47:20,894 --> 00:47:22,655 Albert Einstein. And they have 1280 00:47:24,094 --> 00:47:25,054 Levi's shirt, 1281 00:47:26,094 --> 00:47:27,234 in a museum, 1282 00:47:29,214 --> 00:47:29,954 shirt of 1283 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:30,940 instene. 1284 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,039 And the the it I think that it 1285 00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:34,860 will be interesting 1286 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,860 project to check off, metabolites 1287 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,280 and the platinum of valvictine stain. Many, many 1288 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:40,680 different, 1289 00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:42,840 interesting projects. And 1290 00:47:43,364 --> 00:47:46,164 Yeah. That that's amazing, Gleb. I mean, you 1291 00:47:46,164 --> 00:47:48,184 know, who who who haven't you mentioned? 1292 00:47:49,125 --> 00:47:51,545 We've gone from Tesla to Michelangelo 1293 00:47:52,005 --> 00:47:52,905 to Einstein, 1294 00:47:54,244 --> 00:47:56,664 via Galileo. I mean, it it 1295 00:47:57,150 --> 00:47:58,769 it must be really fascinating, 1296 00:47:59,389 --> 00:48:00,690 the work that you do, 1297 00:48:01,469 --> 00:48:03,949 must be very rewarding. And, you know, thanks 1298 00:48:03,949 --> 00:48:05,650 so much for coming on the podcast 1299 00:48:06,269 --> 00:48:08,829 and, and talking to us about it. Thank 1300 00:48:08,829 --> 00:48:11,889 you very much, doctor Johnson. Thank you. 1301 00:48:20,494 --> 00:48:22,755 That was the physicist and entrepreneur 1302 00:48:23,454 --> 00:48:24,594 Gleb Zilberstein. 1303 00:48:25,739 --> 00:48:28,400 Thanks, Gleb, for a fascinating conversation. 1304 00:48:29,340 --> 00:48:31,340 If you'd like to learn more about the 1305 00:48:31,340 --> 00:48:32,400 use of proteomics 1306 00:48:32,780 --> 00:48:34,239 in historical research, 1307 00:48:34,699 --> 00:48:36,800 you can find links to some of Gleb's 1308 00:48:36,940 --> 00:48:37,440 papers 1309 00:48:37,739 --> 00:48:39,519 in the notes for this podcast. 1310 00:48:40,425 --> 00:48:42,505 I'm afraid that's all the time we have 1311 00:48:42,505 --> 00:48:43,644 for this week's episode. 1312 00:48:44,184 --> 00:48:47,065 I'm Hamish Johnston, and our producer is Fred 1313 00:48:47,065 --> 00:48:47,565 Iles. 1314 00:48:48,265 --> 00:48:51,724 The podcast music is called one three seven, 1315 00:48:51,864 --> 00:48:53,965 and it was composed and performed 1316 00:48:54,265 --> 00:48:55,164 by the physicist 1317 00:48:55,860 --> 00:48:56,760 Philip Moriarty. 1318 00:48:57,619 --> 00:48:59,480 We'll be back again next week.