1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,199 Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly 2 00:00:11,199 --> 00:00:11,699 podcast. 3 00:00:12,095 --> 00:00:15,134 I'm Hamish Johnston, and my guest this week 4 00:00:15,134 --> 00:00:16,435 is Liz Martin. 5 00:00:17,135 --> 00:00:18,515 She is sustainability 6 00:00:18,894 --> 00:00:20,835 lead at IOP Publishing, 7 00:00:21,295 --> 00:00:22,975 and we're going to chat about how the 8 00:00:22,975 --> 00:00:27,570 company has reduced its carbon emissions by 36% 9 00:00:28,109 --> 00:00:30,929 when compared to a 2020 baseline. 10 00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:35,570 IOP Publishing is a wholly owned subsidiary 11 00:00:35,950 --> 00:00:37,649 of the Institute of Physics, 12 00:00:38,244 --> 00:00:41,704 which is the professional body and learned society 13 00:00:41,924 --> 00:00:44,664 for physics in The UK and Ireland. 14 00:00:45,604 --> 00:00:48,585 IOP Publishing produces over 100 15 00:00:48,725 --> 00:00:50,024 scholarly journals, 16 00:00:50,370 --> 00:00:53,829 around half of which are published jointly with 17 00:00:53,969 --> 00:00:56,789 or on behalf of partner societies 18 00:00:57,250 --> 00:00:58,870 and research organizations. 19 00:01:00,130 --> 00:01:03,329 Physics world is also brought to you by 20 00:01:03,329 --> 00:01:04,390 IOP publishing. 21 00:01:05,075 --> 00:01:05,975 Here's my 22 00:01:08,135 --> 00:01:08,635 conversation 23 00:01:10,795 --> 00:01:11,295 with 24 00:01:13,454 --> 00:01:13,954 Liz. 25 00:01:16,115 --> 00:01:17,975 Hi, Liz. Welcome to the podcast. 26 00:01:18,439 --> 00:01:19,880 Hi, Hamish. It's nice to be here. I 27 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,200 always like an opportunity to talk about things 28 00:01:22,439 --> 00:01:23,500 all things sustainable. 29 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:24,620 Great. 30 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,920 So, can we start off by, 31 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,520 can you give us a little summary of 32 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:31,579 IOP Publishing's 33 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:32,380 commitment 34 00:01:33,185 --> 00:01:34,084 to sustainability? 35 00:01:34,625 --> 00:01:36,465 What what what is our commitment as a 36 00:01:36,465 --> 00:01:36,965 company? 37 00:01:37,584 --> 00:01:40,545 As a company, we're committed to operating our 38 00:01:40,545 --> 00:01:43,444 business in as an environmentally friendly, 39 00:01:43,825 --> 00:01:45,284 sustainable way as possible. 40 00:01:45,670 --> 00:01:48,150 So that covers the day to day running 41 00:01:48,150 --> 00:01:50,810 of the business, our offices, our our people, 42 00:01:51,270 --> 00:01:53,189 but also the the business that we do, 43 00:01:53,189 --> 00:01:56,490 so publishing scientific research in all its forms. 44 00:01:57,189 --> 00:01:59,605 So we do this by focusing on on 45 00:01:59,605 --> 00:02:02,265 measuring our our carbon emissions and then reducing 46 00:02:02,484 --> 00:02:03,784 the that that carbon, 47 00:02:04,885 --> 00:02:07,045 working with our supply chains to reach, 48 00:02:07,605 --> 00:02:08,585 on their emissions, 49 00:02:09,365 --> 00:02:11,865 those that are not directly within our control, 50 00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:14,900 and also supporting our colleagues in understanding what 51 00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:16,120 they can do as individuals, 52 00:02:16,580 --> 00:02:18,439 both inside and outside of work. 53 00:02:18,740 --> 00:02:21,479 But unlike other businesses, as a publisher, 54 00:02:21,860 --> 00:02:23,159 we have an added responsibility 55 00:02:23,460 --> 00:02:25,584 of of the research that we publish. So 56 00:02:25,584 --> 00:02:27,905 we're also committed to to making the best 57 00:02:27,905 --> 00:02:30,884 research in all areas of environmental sustainability 58 00:02:31,584 --> 00:02:32,724 accessible to all, 59 00:02:33,264 --> 00:02:35,104 accessible to all of those people that that 60 00:02:35,104 --> 00:02:36,965 need to drive the solutions of the future. 61 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:40,120 Okay. And I think we we've done a 62 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:41,900 pretty good job, haven't we? 63 00:02:43,319 --> 00:02:43,819 IOPP 64 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,659 has reduced its carbon footprint by 36% 65 00:02:48,359 --> 00:02:51,019 when compared to 2020, 66 00:02:51,365 --> 00:02:52,824 which to me seems amazing. 67 00:02:54,245 --> 00:02:55,764 How how did we do this? How how 68 00:02:55,764 --> 00:02:56,665 is this achieved? 69 00:02:57,284 --> 00:02:58,985 Well, firstly, absolutely 70 00:02:59,444 --> 00:03:02,405 is amazing and, I certainly, you know, not 71 00:03:02,405 --> 00:03:03,544 not taking the credit. 72 00:03:03,844 --> 00:03:05,605 Lots and lots of people across the the 73 00:03:05,605 --> 00:03:06,960 company involved there. 74 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,680 The the first step for us though was 75 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,200 was measuring our our corporate carbon footprint, which 76 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:14,740 it sounds super easy, 77 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,599 but it it can be pretty challenging to 78 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:19,840 get started. For me at least, it was 79 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,060 a bit of a roller coaster. 80 00:03:21,675 --> 00:03:23,515 I come from a I have a physics 81 00:03:23,515 --> 00:03:24,575 background, so, 82 00:03:25,194 --> 00:03:28,075 consider myself fairly fairly sort of well versed 83 00:03:28,075 --> 00:03:29,694 in in sort of, 84 00:03:30,075 --> 00:03:30,575 methodologies 85 00:03:30,955 --> 00:03:32,875 and and and calculations of this type. But 86 00:03:32,875 --> 00:03:34,075 it was a a bit of a roller 87 00:03:34,075 --> 00:03:36,199 coaster, feeling like you had it all under 88 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:39,079 control and then realizing quite how complex it 89 00:03:39,079 --> 00:03:39,979 could be in places. 90 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,199 But we we we got there. We needed 91 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:45,639 to do that, we needed to set some 92 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:47,639 really clear boundaries on on what we were 93 00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:48,539 trying to measure, 94 00:03:49,064 --> 00:03:51,705 to make some decisions on how we were 95 00:03:51,705 --> 00:03:53,465 going to to to measure it and then 96 00:03:53,465 --> 00:03:55,245 how we were going to calculate the emissions. 97 00:03:56,504 --> 00:03:58,425 You need a lot of data, a a 98 00:03:58,425 --> 00:04:00,444 huge amount of operational data. 99 00:04:00,745 --> 00:04:03,449 Again, that sounds simple, and and data is 100 00:04:03,449 --> 00:04:05,849 is really simple to track in real time, 101 00:04:05,849 --> 00:04:08,569 but it's it's really difficult to to gather 102 00:04:08,569 --> 00:04:09,069 retrospectively. 103 00:04:11,050 --> 00:04:13,050 But we got there. We got there. And 104 00:04:13,050 --> 00:04:15,794 once we had collected that that or calculated 105 00:04:15,854 --> 00:04:16,995 rather that first footprint, 106 00:04:17,295 --> 00:04:19,454 it was immediately clear that we had some 107 00:04:19,454 --> 00:04:20,194 some hotspots. 108 00:04:21,615 --> 00:04:24,095 But identifying those hotspots is is really just 109 00:04:24,095 --> 00:04:25,154 the start of it. 110 00:04:26,095 --> 00:04:27,899 You know, once you know what they are, 111 00:04:27,979 --> 00:04:30,220 some some hot spots can be relatively easy 112 00:04:30,220 --> 00:04:32,699 to address. But more often, the areas where 113 00:04:32,699 --> 00:04:33,360 you can, 114 00:04:33,819 --> 00:04:36,539 make the biggest impact in terms of, carbon 115 00:04:36,539 --> 00:04:37,039 reduction 116 00:04:37,419 --> 00:04:39,975 are are not the straightforward areas to address. 117 00:04:41,014 --> 00:04:42,694 I see. And, Liz, there I mean, you 118 00:04:42,694 --> 00:04:44,295 you didn't do this on your own, I 119 00:04:44,295 --> 00:04:45,355 don't think. You 120 00:04:45,735 --> 00:04:47,814 you you had you worked the the company 121 00:04:47,814 --> 00:04:48,714 worked with partners, 122 00:04:49,735 --> 00:04:51,735 and and worked within a a a sort 123 00:04:51,735 --> 00:04:54,060 of a standard framework. Is that right? 124 00:04:54,459 --> 00:04:57,819 Absolutely right. This would be simply impossible for 125 00:04:57,819 --> 00:05:00,540 for any one person to do. So we 126 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:02,959 have a sustainability task force, 127 00:05:03,660 --> 00:05:06,459 and that we have executive sponsor there, and 128 00:05:06,459 --> 00:05:08,714 I chair that. And that is people from 129 00:05:08,714 --> 00:05:10,334 around the business of all levels, 130 00:05:11,194 --> 00:05:13,354 who have an interest or have a particular 131 00:05:13,354 --> 00:05:14,254 area of responsibility, 132 00:05:16,235 --> 00:05:18,794 that is that is pertinent. And they really 133 00:05:18,794 --> 00:05:19,294 drive 134 00:05:19,754 --> 00:05:20,814 all of our sustainability 135 00:05:21,194 --> 00:05:22,735 activities across the company. 136 00:05:23,540 --> 00:05:24,680 But the, but 137 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:26,740 separate to that, we have a couple of 138 00:05:26,740 --> 00:05:27,639 working groups. 139 00:05:28,020 --> 00:05:30,259 We have a supply chain working group who 140 00:05:30,259 --> 00:05:32,020 engage with with all of the suppliers that 141 00:05:32,020 --> 00:05:34,040 we use, and we have a carbon footprint 142 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:36,740 working group. So within the carbon footprint working 143 00:05:36,740 --> 00:05:39,725 group, that is people around the business who 144 00:05:39,725 --> 00:05:41,104 are who have responsibility 145 00:05:41,485 --> 00:05:42,384 for the activities 146 00:05:42,925 --> 00:05:45,245 where we need to collect primary data for 147 00:05:45,245 --> 00:05:45,985 that calculation. 148 00:05:46,524 --> 00:05:47,884 So we have a a big team of 149 00:05:47,884 --> 00:05:51,264 people, and we're also supported by, a consultant 150 00:05:51,404 --> 00:05:52,464 called Climate Partner 151 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:53,699 who are experts. 152 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:55,680 And I have to say, without them, I 153 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,240 think we'd probably still be calculating that first 154 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,300 footprint now. 155 00:05:59,919 --> 00:06:03,199 And and, Liz, we're recording this, podcast in 156 00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:03,699 IOP's 157 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,740 new ish office in Bristol. 158 00:06:07,305 --> 00:06:07,805 And 159 00:06:08,105 --> 00:06:09,725 it seems to have a remarkably 160 00:06:10,105 --> 00:06:10,605 low 161 00:06:11,064 --> 00:06:12,045 carbon footprint. 162 00:06:13,144 --> 00:06:14,904 How has that been achieved? I mean, is 163 00:06:14,904 --> 00:06:17,485 it simply because it's a fairly new building, 164 00:06:17,545 --> 00:06:19,464 or are there lots of other things that 165 00:06:19,464 --> 00:06:22,024 were done to to ensure the low carbon 166 00:06:22,024 --> 00:06:22,524 footprint? 167 00:06:23,579 --> 00:06:25,740 A little bit of both. I think, you 168 00:06:25,740 --> 00:06:27,759 know, we're we're incredibly fortunate, 169 00:06:28,779 --> 00:06:29,839 with our new offices 170 00:06:30,459 --> 00:06:32,379 precisely as you say because it's a new 171 00:06:32,379 --> 00:06:32,879 build. 172 00:06:33,180 --> 00:06:34,399 And it was built 173 00:06:34,779 --> 00:06:35,599 with sustainability 174 00:06:35,899 --> 00:06:38,735 in mind, and that makes a huge difference. 175 00:06:38,735 --> 00:06:40,595 It can be much more challenging, 176 00:06:41,454 --> 00:06:42,274 for businesses 177 00:06:42,735 --> 00:06:45,214 who are in older buildings. And when you 178 00:06:45,214 --> 00:06:48,495 try and retrofit sustainability in there, it simply 179 00:06:48,495 --> 00:06:49,235 can be, 180 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,240 you know, an enormous cost to the business 181 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,400 to try and do that. So we made 182 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,000 the move with that in mind. We were 183 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,400 previously in in another building, not so very 184 00:06:58,400 --> 00:06:59,779 far away, as you know. 185 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:02,819 So the move to here 186 00:07:03,495 --> 00:07:05,975 delivered for us in the long term and 187 00:07:05,975 --> 00:07:07,495 that we were able to move to this 188 00:07:07,495 --> 00:07:10,134 very sustainable building. But it did give us 189 00:07:10,134 --> 00:07:11,574 it did give us a year or two 190 00:07:11,574 --> 00:07:13,254 of overlap well, not a year or two. 191 00:07:13,254 --> 00:07:15,435 Sorry. It gave us a year of overlap, 192 00:07:15,975 --> 00:07:18,295 where we were effectively running two offices. So 193 00:07:18,295 --> 00:07:21,550 that did temporarily increase our footprint. But now 194 00:07:21,550 --> 00:07:23,970 we're here. It's made a huge different 195 00:07:24,349 --> 00:07:26,269 difference. And I think the the biggest single 196 00:07:26,269 --> 00:07:26,769 benefit 197 00:07:27,149 --> 00:07:29,709 is really the setup for for temperature control 198 00:07:29,709 --> 00:07:32,464 within the bay building, the heating, the cooling. 199 00:07:33,805 --> 00:07:36,064 You know, it was created with energy efficiency 200 00:07:36,125 --> 00:07:38,205 in mind. We can even open the windows, 201 00:07:38,205 --> 00:07:40,605 which doesn't sound like much, but makes a 202 00:07:40,605 --> 00:07:42,444 a a real difference in terms of when 203 00:07:42,444 --> 00:07:44,285 you then press that switch on the wall 204 00:07:44,285 --> 00:07:46,365 to heat or cool down or whatever you 205 00:07:46,365 --> 00:07:48,439 need to do. You open a window instead. 206 00:07:48,500 --> 00:07:50,500 And that's all energy that you you don't 207 00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:52,580 use. And, of course, the energy that we 208 00:07:52,580 --> 00:07:55,060 we do still use, because everybody does, is 209 00:07:55,060 --> 00:07:56,980 clean here as well. So that has a 210 00:07:56,980 --> 00:07:58,120 has a big impact, 211 00:07:58,819 --> 00:08:00,980 across our our scope one and scope two 212 00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:01,480 emissions. 213 00:08:02,504 --> 00:08:02,824 And, 214 00:08:03,625 --> 00:08:05,865 I I I should say for the benefit 215 00:08:05,865 --> 00:08:07,944 of listeners that it is a very nice 216 00:08:07,944 --> 00:08:10,185 building as well. I mean, it's not like, 217 00:08:10,425 --> 00:08:11,944 you know, we're we're in this sort of 218 00:08:11,944 --> 00:08:14,849 horrible building, saving lots of energy. It's it's 219 00:08:14,849 --> 00:08:16,849 it's a lovely building. It's a really nice 220 00:08:16,849 --> 00:08:17,909 place to work in. 221 00:08:18,529 --> 00:08:20,449 So, you know, to me, as as somebody 222 00:08:20,449 --> 00:08:22,310 who comes in every day to the office, 223 00:08:22,529 --> 00:08:23,829 it's been a real success, 224 00:08:24,769 --> 00:08:25,509 I think. 225 00:08:27,095 --> 00:08:29,415 So so in terms of measurement, Liz, you 226 00:08:29,415 --> 00:08:29,995 you mentioned, 227 00:08:31,095 --> 00:08:32,154 the the difficulties, 228 00:08:32,695 --> 00:08:34,375 in terms of how to measure the carbon 229 00:08:34,375 --> 00:08:35,595 footprint of a company. 230 00:08:36,934 --> 00:08:40,235 That's done in terms of scopes one, 231 00:08:40,695 --> 00:08:42,075 two, and three. 232 00:08:42,459 --> 00:08:44,799 And I think, maybe some of our listeners 233 00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:47,820 might not be familiar with those scopes. Would 234 00:08:47,820 --> 00:08:50,399 it be possible for you to briefly explain 235 00:08:50,860 --> 00:08:52,000 these three categories 236 00:08:52,459 --> 00:08:55,120 and give an example of each that's relevant 237 00:08:55,659 --> 00:08:56,879 to IOP publishing? 238 00:08:58,065 --> 00:08:58,945 Of course. It's, 239 00:08:59,665 --> 00:09:01,345 I don't think I realized at the beginning, 240 00:09:01,345 --> 00:09:02,725 but it is an incredibly 241 00:09:03,105 --> 00:09:05,585 complex area. So I will try and do 242 00:09:05,585 --> 00:09:07,745 it as as simply as I'm as I'm 243 00:09:07,745 --> 00:09:08,245 able. 244 00:09:09,105 --> 00:09:11,924 So escape one emissions are the direct emissions 245 00:09:11,985 --> 00:09:13,960 produced by our burning fuels. 246 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:17,299 So for us, that's our offices and and 247 00:09:17,299 --> 00:09:19,059 it would be vehicles, but we we don't 248 00:09:19,059 --> 00:09:22,100 have them. So it's it's largely around the 249 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:24,279 the burning of fuels for our offices. 250 00:09:25,554 --> 00:09:28,054 Scope two are indirect emissions 251 00:09:28,675 --> 00:09:31,475 generated by the electricity that we purchase and 252 00:09:31,475 --> 00:09:31,975 consume. 253 00:09:32,355 --> 00:09:34,434 So I think that's that that one's fairly 254 00:09:34,434 --> 00:09:38,115 clear. And scope three then are indirect emissions 255 00:09:38,115 --> 00:09:41,070 again, but they are produced by our activities 256 00:09:41,529 --> 00:09:43,850 but are owned and controlled by a different 257 00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:44,350 company. 258 00:09:44,889 --> 00:09:45,610 So this, 259 00:09:46,009 --> 00:09:48,889 covers everything we buy, whether that be goods 260 00:09:48,889 --> 00:09:49,629 or services. 261 00:09:50,009 --> 00:09:52,269 It covers distribution of our products, 262 00:09:52,695 --> 00:09:54,715 business travel, employee commuting. 263 00:09:55,254 --> 00:09:57,575 There's there's a really long list. There's 15 264 00:09:57,575 --> 00:10:00,394 categories that that fit into scope three. 265 00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:02,615 So I I won't list them all, but 266 00:10:02,615 --> 00:10:04,134 but those are those are a few of 267 00:10:04,134 --> 00:10:04,860 the key ones. 268 00:10:05,259 --> 00:10:08,379 And and for IOP publishing, scope three is 269 00:10:08,379 --> 00:10:12,079 really important because it represents 99% 270 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:14,000 of the company's emissions. 271 00:10:15,259 --> 00:10:17,919 And within that 99%, 272 00:10:18,834 --> 00:10:22,615 the the emissions are dominated by purchased services, 273 00:10:23,235 --> 00:10:24,214 business travel, 274 00:10:24,674 --> 00:10:27,554 and employee commuting. So I suppose those are 275 00:10:27,554 --> 00:10:29,414 the key ones that we need to reduce. 276 00:10:29,714 --> 00:10:30,855 How can the company, 277 00:10:31,554 --> 00:10:33,634 reduce each of these? I mean, given the 278 00:10:33,634 --> 00:10:37,069 fact that we've already gone down by 36% 279 00:10:37,449 --> 00:10:39,629 over the last, five years or so. 280 00:10:40,089 --> 00:10:42,009 Well, I mean, that really is the million 281 00:10:42,009 --> 00:10:43,870 dollar question because that's what 282 00:10:44,329 --> 00:10:47,309 any company out there that's trying to reduce 283 00:10:47,449 --> 00:10:50,355 their carbon footprint is is looking at. And 284 00:10:50,355 --> 00:10:51,174 and, actually, 285 00:10:51,634 --> 00:10:52,115 you know, I 286 00:10:53,394 --> 00:10:55,154 to deliver that 36% 287 00:10:55,154 --> 00:10:57,235 that that we have achieved already, I don't 288 00:10:57,235 --> 00:10:58,754 want to make it sound like those were 289 00:10:58,754 --> 00:11:01,075 easy things to do. They weren't. They were 290 00:11:01,075 --> 00:11:04,034 possibly slightly more straightforward. They were slightly more 291 00:11:04,034 --> 00:11:04,534 obvious. 292 00:11:05,170 --> 00:11:05,970 And the, 293 00:11:07,009 --> 00:11:09,269 the implications of making those changes, 294 00:11:10,050 --> 00:11:10,950 we were happy 295 00:11:11,330 --> 00:11:12,629 to work with those implications. 296 00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:16,790 But but purchase services in particular is particularly 297 00:11:16,850 --> 00:11:17,350 challenging. 298 00:11:17,795 --> 00:11:19,795 Well and that includes goods as well. You 299 00:11:19,795 --> 00:11:22,675 know, any business who operates has to buy 300 00:11:22,675 --> 00:11:25,415 some things, whether that be the, 301 00:11:26,835 --> 00:11:28,675 the water that we drink or the pens 302 00:11:28,675 --> 00:11:30,915 that we write with or the the the 303 00:11:30,915 --> 00:11:32,375 laptops that we're using. 304 00:11:33,450 --> 00:11:36,190 But it covers everything. It covers everything from, 305 00:11:36,490 --> 00:11:38,809 you know, a a software system that we 306 00:11:38,809 --> 00:11:41,370 use to book our meeting rooms. So there 307 00:11:41,370 --> 00:11:43,850 is there is really no getting away from 308 00:11:43,850 --> 00:11:45,370 the fact that as a company, you have 309 00:11:45,370 --> 00:11:46,424 to purchase things. 310 00:11:46,745 --> 00:11:48,264 And some of those are are are good. 311 00:11:48,264 --> 00:11:50,345 So these are real physical things, and and 312 00:11:50,345 --> 00:11:52,345 some of those might be software as, you 313 00:11:52,345 --> 00:11:52,845 know, 314 00:11:53,784 --> 00:11:56,825 buying Microsoft in order to use Word. That 315 00:11:56,825 --> 00:11:58,764 comes at a price, and and that, therefore, 316 00:11:58,825 --> 00:12:01,600 has some emissions associated with it. So I 317 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,019 think that's really the most challenging 318 00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:04,899 area. 319 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:08,320 And, you know, the fact that that 99% 320 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,799 of our emissions come from scope three isn't 321 00:12:10,799 --> 00:12:13,700 particularly unusual. I think we've done really well 322 00:12:13,975 --> 00:12:16,134 in reducing our scopes one and two with 323 00:12:16,134 --> 00:12:17,034 our our buildings, 324 00:12:18,054 --> 00:12:20,475 down to 1%. But that that very, 325 00:12:21,735 --> 00:12:24,134 that that really sort of high number on 326 00:12:24,215 --> 00:12:25,995 in the scopes three is is not particularly 327 00:12:26,054 --> 00:12:26,554 unusual. 328 00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:30,959 So how can a company reduce each of 329 00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:33,120 these? I mean, that's going to be you 330 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,679 know, that's different for for every business. I 331 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,639 mean, we've done really well so far in 332 00:12:38,639 --> 00:12:40,500 in delivering that 36%, 333 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,975 because we looked at 334 00:12:43,375 --> 00:12:44,975 or we continue to work on it. But 335 00:12:44,975 --> 00:12:47,554 we we we made some big strides in 336 00:12:47,855 --> 00:12:48,914 moving from 337 00:12:49,375 --> 00:12:51,954 the material we publish being consumed in print 338 00:12:52,095 --> 00:12:53,394 to being consumed digitally. 339 00:12:54,014 --> 00:12:56,334 And, you know, I don't I don't want 340 00:12:56,334 --> 00:12:58,800 to make that sound like an easy decision 341 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,720 to make. You know? It it it wasn't 342 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,720 an easy decision to make, but it was 343 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,120 quite an an obvious one in terms of 344 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,879 the impact that it could have on carbon 345 00:13:06,879 --> 00:13:07,379 emissions. 346 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:09,600 So that's been a a big driver of 347 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,059 that reduction so far. 348 00:13:11,785 --> 00:13:13,465 But we're nearly there now. You know, we've 349 00:13:13,465 --> 00:13:14,665 got a little bit more to go, but 350 00:13:14,665 --> 00:13:15,644 we're nearly there. 351 00:13:16,264 --> 00:13:19,384 Then you start moving into really challenging areas, 352 00:13:19,384 --> 00:13:21,804 you know, taking business travel as an example. 353 00:13:23,304 --> 00:13:23,965 You know, 354 00:13:24,345 --> 00:13:26,669 it's obvious. Right? If you travel less, 355 00:13:27,870 --> 00:13:30,029 or you use use a more environment 356 00:13:30,429 --> 00:13:32,750 environmentally friendly method to do it, you will 357 00:13:32,750 --> 00:13:35,709 reduce. But if you travel less, then, you 358 00:13:35,709 --> 00:13:38,370 know, you're seeing clients less, you're seeing customers 359 00:13:38,429 --> 00:13:40,429 less, your the the the things that you 360 00:13:40,429 --> 00:13:41,950 have to do to be successful as a 361 00:13:41,950 --> 00:13:42,450 business 362 00:13:42,884 --> 00:13:45,285 become more challenging. So it's those areas. And 363 00:13:45,285 --> 00:13:46,825 and it's not right or wrong. 364 00:13:47,285 --> 00:13:48,425 You know, you have to, 365 00:13:49,125 --> 00:13:50,184 embed sustainability 366 00:13:50,965 --> 00:13:54,024 into people's decision making about how they operate. 367 00:13:54,485 --> 00:13:56,644 And I think that's that's really the key 368 00:13:56,644 --> 00:13:59,139 for us us now. And the same goes 369 00:13:59,139 --> 00:14:00,759 with employee commuting. You know, 370 00:14:01,139 --> 00:14:03,299 if you give people the information to make 371 00:14:03,299 --> 00:14:04,039 good decisions 372 00:14:04,340 --> 00:14:07,379 and let them make them those decisions within 373 00:14:07,379 --> 00:14:09,879 the context of what they have to achieve, 374 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:12,945 in their work, then that's the most effective 375 00:14:13,165 --> 00:14:15,004 way of making it work for sort of 376 00:14:15,004 --> 00:14:16,225 both sides of the argument. 377 00:14:17,165 --> 00:14:19,004 I was I was a bit surprised by 378 00:14:19,004 --> 00:14:19,504 how 379 00:14:20,285 --> 00:14:20,785 dominant, 380 00:14:21,644 --> 00:14:23,264 employee commuting was, 381 00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:26,059 you know, particularly because a lot of a 382 00:14:26,059 --> 00:14:27,759 lot of colleagues work at home. 383 00:14:28,940 --> 00:14:30,960 And the ones who do come into, 384 00:14:31,899 --> 00:14:34,300 the distillery, the office that we're in right 385 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:34,800 now, 386 00:14:35,259 --> 00:14:37,019 a lot of those people walk or ride 387 00:14:37,019 --> 00:14:37,680 their bikes. 388 00:14:38,774 --> 00:14:41,514 So is that I mean, that commuting, 389 00:14:42,054 --> 00:14:42,794 I assume 390 00:14:43,335 --> 00:14:46,615 pre pandemic and pre having the ability to 391 00:14:46,615 --> 00:14:47,514 work at home, 392 00:14:47,975 --> 00:14:49,274 commuting would have been 393 00:14:49,735 --> 00:14:51,914 off the scale in terms of our carbon 394 00:14:52,279 --> 00:14:53,720 footprint, wouldn't it? So 395 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:54,700 Yeah. 396 00:14:55,559 --> 00:14:56,759 I I I can I mean, I I 397 00:14:56,759 --> 00:14:58,120 see what you mean because I can't see 398 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:01,100 I mean, you know, knowing how people here 399 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,399 get to work, I can't see how you 400 00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:05,899 could really reduce that that much? 401 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,485 It's a really good point. Don't forget, we're 402 00:15:08,485 --> 00:15:10,565 we're talking about people here based in our 403 00:15:10,565 --> 00:15:12,644 HQ in Bristol, but we're also talking about 404 00:15:12,644 --> 00:15:14,024 the colleagues that we have, 405 00:15:14,565 --> 00:15:17,445 in China and India and The US. So 406 00:15:17,445 --> 00:15:19,445 there is a little there is, you know, 407 00:15:19,445 --> 00:15:20,519 a different mix 408 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:21,559 of, 409 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,840 opportunities for walking and cycling to work, for 410 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:25,340 example. 411 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,440 But the other key point is that although 412 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,679 the the scope three category is called employee 413 00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,820 commuting, it does also include working from home. 414 00:15:34,295 --> 00:15:34,795 So 415 00:15:35,175 --> 00:15:37,815 that the the emissions associated with all of 416 00:15:37,815 --> 00:15:40,315 us working from home are also being captured 417 00:15:40,455 --> 00:15:43,175 in that category. Oh, I see. Yeah. So, 418 00:15:43,175 --> 00:15:45,495 well, actually, that brings me on nicely to 419 00:15:45,495 --> 00:15:46,555 my next question. 420 00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:49,129 How do you capture, 421 00:15:50,549 --> 00:15:51,049 emissions, 422 00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:54,309 you know, that are associated with people working 423 00:15:54,309 --> 00:15:56,970 at home? That is there a standard formula 424 00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:59,049 that you can use based on, 425 00:15:59,774 --> 00:16:02,654 I don't know, the average consumption of a 426 00:16:02,654 --> 00:16:04,815 of a house in in The UK, for 427 00:16:04,815 --> 00:16:06,894 example? Is that is that how it works? 428 00:16:07,294 --> 00:16:08,975 Because, you know, you don't know. You, you 429 00:16:08,975 --> 00:16:10,914 know, some people might not 430 00:16:11,870 --> 00:16:14,029 not be too upset if it's chilly in 431 00:16:14,029 --> 00:16:15,970 the winter and not turn the heat on. 432 00:16:16,110 --> 00:16:18,669 Whereas other people might be sensitive to temperature 433 00:16:18,669 --> 00:16:19,870 or have a health, 434 00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:22,669 risk where they have to turn the heat 435 00:16:22,669 --> 00:16:23,649 up in their house. 436 00:16:23,955 --> 00:16:26,355 It must be difficult to, to sort of 437 00:16:26,355 --> 00:16:27,894 get a handle on that. 438 00:16:28,274 --> 00:16:29,495 How is that done? 439 00:16:30,195 --> 00:16:32,595 Well, you're you're exactly right. And and the 440 00:16:32,595 --> 00:16:34,915 way that is handled I mean, as as 441 00:16:34,915 --> 00:16:36,835 much as we would love primary day you 442 00:16:36,835 --> 00:16:38,460 know, first hand data, we would like to, 443 00:16:38,540 --> 00:16:40,300 you know it would be nice to ask 444 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:42,460 every single person exactly what they're doing, exactly 445 00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:44,540 what time the heat their heating's turned on 446 00:16:44,540 --> 00:16:46,379 in the morning, and how many lights on 447 00:16:46,379 --> 00:16:48,139 they have in the house. And then split 448 00:16:48,139 --> 00:16:50,059 that down and if, you know, there's a 449 00:16:50,059 --> 00:16:52,059 partner or a family member also working in 450 00:16:52,059 --> 00:16:54,274 the building, how much is a proportion 451 00:16:54,735 --> 00:16:57,875 to each person? But the but the reality 452 00:16:58,174 --> 00:17:00,595 is that that what you do to calculate 453 00:17:00,654 --> 00:17:03,695 that is use kind of averages. You know, 454 00:17:03,695 --> 00:17:04,595 there are emission 455 00:17:04,894 --> 00:17:05,394 factors, 456 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,339 which will change by 457 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,240 geography. So we do split it down by 458 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,900 various geographies, but then you will use averages 459 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:12,460 about, 460 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,380 you know, that understand what kind of renewable 461 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,380 splitters in the grid in The UK 462 00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:19,259 versus 463 00:17:19,559 --> 00:17:22,265 in China or India or The US. So 464 00:17:22,565 --> 00:17:24,505 much of, of a carbon footprint 465 00:17:24,884 --> 00:17:26,184 does, out of necessity, 466 00:17:27,045 --> 00:17:29,765 end up, you know, operating in a space 467 00:17:29,765 --> 00:17:32,644 of of national averages. So there's there's fixed 468 00:17:32,644 --> 00:17:34,805 emission factors that are are set that we 469 00:17:34,805 --> 00:17:37,170 use. But, you know, I think 470 00:17:38,369 --> 00:17:39,970 it it's true to say that that a 471 00:17:39,970 --> 00:17:42,710 carbon footprint, you know, we're we're working constantly 472 00:17:43,090 --> 00:17:45,090 and and have improved year on year since 473 00:17:45,090 --> 00:17:45,910 2020 474 00:17:46,289 --> 00:17:49,484 to maximize the primary data that we use. 475 00:17:49,484 --> 00:17:51,484 But the reality is that it it it's 476 00:17:51,484 --> 00:17:54,224 completely impossible to have primary data for everything. 477 00:17:54,525 --> 00:17:57,085 So you do use those averages. So so 478 00:17:57,085 --> 00:17:59,424 just taking the the example you had there 479 00:17:59,565 --> 00:18:01,505 for for working at home in The UK, 480 00:18:02,125 --> 00:18:04,045 what we do do in terms of primary 481 00:18:04,045 --> 00:18:04,545 data 482 00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:07,579 is survey all of our colleagues. But rather 483 00:18:07,579 --> 00:18:09,740 than than get sending them a survey with 484 00:18:09,740 --> 00:18:12,059 a 100 questions about what time you turn 485 00:18:12,059 --> 00:18:13,980 your lights on and and what temperature you 486 00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:15,900 have your heating set to and who's your 487 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:18,480 energy provider, we do keep it quite simple. 488 00:18:18,825 --> 00:18:21,865 So we calculate it based on on average, 489 00:18:21,865 --> 00:18:23,544 how many days they're in the office, how 490 00:18:23,544 --> 00:18:25,464 many days they're at home, and then we 491 00:18:25,464 --> 00:18:28,825 will use, UK averages or whatever country that 492 00:18:28,825 --> 00:18:31,565 we're we're talking about, use those those geographical 493 00:18:31,784 --> 00:18:33,289 averages to to incorporate 494 00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:35,529 that work from home into that category. 495 00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:37,850 I see. And and what can you do, 496 00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:40,970 you know, to to to reduce that? 497 00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:43,910 You know, for example, we had the the 498 00:18:43,910 --> 00:18:45,610 the walls of our house 499 00:18:46,304 --> 00:18:46,804 insulated, 500 00:18:47,585 --> 00:18:49,505 a few years ago. My my wife works 501 00:18:49,505 --> 00:18:51,825 at home full time, and she noticed a 502 00:18:51,825 --> 00:18:52,565 huge difference 503 00:18:53,105 --> 00:18:53,605 immediately, 504 00:18:54,304 --> 00:18:56,464 you know, both in the comfort of her 505 00:18:56,464 --> 00:18:58,544 working in our house, and, you know, also 506 00:18:58,544 --> 00:18:59,984 the fact that the heat didn't have to 507 00:18:59,984 --> 00:19:00,724 come on 508 00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:01,819 as often. 509 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:05,599 I mean, we can I mean, I mean, 510 00:19:05,599 --> 00:19:08,279 I suppose the company can encourage people to, 511 00:19:09,319 --> 00:19:11,159 to to, you know, to to to look 512 00:19:11,159 --> 00:19:13,159 at how those sort of things could be 513 00:19:13,159 --> 00:19:15,964 done? But, I mean, I suppose we you 514 00:19:15,964 --> 00:19:17,804 know, because it is a private house, we 515 00:19:17,804 --> 00:19:19,565 we really can't do any more than that, 516 00:19:19,565 --> 00:19:21,644 can we? You're absolutely right. And Gold Star, 517 00:19:21,644 --> 00:19:23,484 by the way, I think insulation is is 518 00:19:23,484 --> 00:19:25,404 is probably one of the most important things 519 00:19:25,404 --> 00:19:27,589 that that people could do. But you're absolutely 520 00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:29,029 right. You you know, 521 00:19:29,569 --> 00:19:31,970 although it forms part of our corporate carbon 522 00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:32,470 footprint, 523 00:19:32,929 --> 00:19:35,109 you know, clearly, we can't enforce 524 00:19:35,809 --> 00:19:38,450 those those type you know, somebody might will 525 00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:40,710 be choosing an energy provider for a variety 526 00:19:40,769 --> 00:19:43,424 of reasons outside of what impact is it 527 00:19:43,424 --> 00:19:45,424 going to have on IOP Publishing's corp, 528 00:19:45,904 --> 00:19:46,804 carbon footprint. 529 00:19:47,105 --> 00:19:49,424 So we don't enforce, but what we do 530 00:19:49,424 --> 00:19:50,625 do is we try, 531 00:19:52,304 --> 00:19:52,804 to, 532 00:19:53,984 --> 00:19:56,964 support colleagues in their understanding of the issues. 533 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:58,799 So we've worked with, 534 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,619 a company called Geeky, 535 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,980 which was available to all colleagues. 536 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,160 And that, 537 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,619 what what Geeky did was enable an individual 538 00:20:09,679 --> 00:20:12,019 to create their own personal carbon footprint. 539 00:20:13,134 --> 00:20:15,454 And once they've done that, they they then 540 00:20:15,454 --> 00:20:18,255 would get suggestions and and and challenges and 541 00:20:18,255 --> 00:20:19,775 things that they could take on. None of 542 00:20:19,775 --> 00:20:21,315 it was forced. It was all completely 543 00:20:21,775 --> 00:20:22,674 up to the individual 544 00:20:23,295 --> 00:20:25,710 to but there were there were ideas and 545 00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:27,950 suggestions that they could commit to taking on. 546 00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:28,990 And then there was a little bit of 547 00:20:28,990 --> 00:20:31,070 a leaderboard so we could see which individual 548 00:20:31,070 --> 00:20:33,070 or which team you could group together in 549 00:20:33,070 --> 00:20:33,570 teams, 550 00:20:34,670 --> 00:20:36,910 to because you you scored points if you 551 00:20:36,910 --> 00:20:39,654 took on a challenge, for example, to, 552 00:20:40,434 --> 00:20:43,474 eat only vegetarian meals for a week. That 553 00:20:43,474 --> 00:20:46,914 has a a tremendous impact on on, an 554 00:20:46,914 --> 00:20:49,714 an individual's carbon footprint. So if you completed 555 00:20:49,714 --> 00:20:51,474 that challenge, you would earn points and you 556 00:20:51,474 --> 00:20:52,615 would rise up the leaderboard. 557 00:20:52,970 --> 00:20:55,210 So we we we come at this from 558 00:20:55,210 --> 00:20:58,829 the perspective of supporting people's knowledge and understanding 559 00:20:58,970 --> 00:21:00,509 about the things that they can do. 560 00:21:00,809 --> 00:21:02,750 Absolutely not trying to to 561 00:21:03,049 --> 00:21:06,744 enforce anyone to, you know, install solar panels 562 00:21:06,744 --> 00:21:08,765 or or change their energy provider. 563 00:21:09,865 --> 00:21:12,105 And and so, Liz, what's next? I mean, 564 00:21:12,105 --> 00:21:14,424 we have discussed a few things for the 565 00:21:14,424 --> 00:21:14,924 future, 566 00:21:15,384 --> 00:21:15,705 but, 567 00:21:17,305 --> 00:21:19,164 we've got this 36% 568 00:21:19,330 --> 00:21:19,830 reduction. 569 00:21:21,250 --> 00:21:23,570 Do do you have a target to lower 570 00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:26,130 that even more by, I don't know, 2030 571 00:21:26,130 --> 00:21:27,430 or something like that? 572 00:21:28,130 --> 00:21:28,950 Yes. Absolutely. 573 00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:32,630 So, again, with with our consultant climate partner, 574 00:21:33,365 --> 00:21:35,305 we've been able to 575 00:21:35,684 --> 00:21:37,785 map our net zero trajectory. 576 00:21:38,965 --> 00:21:41,125 So over the so 36% 577 00:21:41,125 --> 00:21:44,505 is a, you know, obviously, absolutely fantastic start 578 00:21:44,644 --> 00:21:46,105 and means that we're tracking 579 00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:48,210 really nicely 580 00:21:48,589 --> 00:21:51,089 beneath that trajectory that we need to achieve 581 00:21:51,390 --> 00:21:52,429 to to meet, 582 00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:54,990 you know, a target of being net net 583 00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:56,210 zero in the future. 584 00:21:57,549 --> 00:21:59,789 But and there's there is always a but, 585 00:21:59,789 --> 00:22:02,414 isn't there? The big but is we absolutely, 586 00:22:02,714 --> 00:22:04,575 you know, won't be able to achieve 587 00:22:04,954 --> 00:22:06,174 36% 588 00:22:06,234 --> 00:22:06,734 every, 589 00:22:07,195 --> 00:22:09,195 you know, every five years. That that was 590 00:22:09,275 --> 00:22:11,195 you know, as with all these things at 591 00:22:11,195 --> 00:22:11,855 the beginning, 592 00:22:12,154 --> 00:22:14,154 you know, when you start out, there's there's 593 00:22:14,154 --> 00:22:15,375 some some 594 00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:18,559 bigger fish there that you can you can, 595 00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:20,740 catch and and address. 596 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,859 So there there will be diminishing, I think, 597 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,900 reductions going forward. But we remain absolutely 598 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:27,859 committed. 599 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,819 So we're gonna we're gonna maintain our momentum 600 00:22:31,035 --> 00:22:32,414 on the digital transformation. 601 00:22:33,515 --> 00:22:36,715 So reducing then and, you know, hopefully, at 602 00:22:36,715 --> 00:22:37,695 some point, eliminating 603 00:22:38,234 --> 00:22:39,934 completely our reliance on print, 604 00:22:40,715 --> 00:22:41,434 because that's, 605 00:22:42,154 --> 00:22:44,315 that that's a that's a huge win both 606 00:22:44,315 --> 00:22:46,715 in both in terms of reducing the emissions 607 00:22:46,715 --> 00:22:49,509 of production, of producing the that that material, 608 00:22:49,809 --> 00:22:51,029 but also in the distribution. 609 00:22:52,529 --> 00:22:54,690 And we're going to continue to work closely 610 00:22:54,690 --> 00:22:55,589 with our suppliers. 611 00:22:55,890 --> 00:22:58,049 This is possibly something that I haven't mentioned 612 00:22:58,049 --> 00:23:00,049 in detail so far, but we work closely 613 00:23:00,049 --> 00:23:00,704 with them 614 00:23:01,664 --> 00:23:02,164 to 615 00:23:02,544 --> 00:23:05,204 encourage every single supplier that we use 616 00:23:05,505 --> 00:23:06,005 to, 617 00:23:06,784 --> 00:23:09,345 identify opportunities of their own to reduce their 618 00:23:09,345 --> 00:23:09,845 emissions. 619 00:23:10,544 --> 00:23:13,365 So what happens within your supply chain is 620 00:23:13,505 --> 00:23:14,005 that, 621 00:23:14,730 --> 00:23:15,630 as a company, 622 00:23:16,089 --> 00:23:18,490 we are responsible for a part of that 623 00:23:18,490 --> 00:23:20,269 supplier's emissions that can be, 624 00:23:20,890 --> 00:23:21,390 attributed 625 00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:23,869 to the activities they perform on our behalf. 626 00:23:24,089 --> 00:23:26,009 So that is really, really key. That's why 627 00:23:26,009 --> 00:23:28,509 purchase goods and services is so key here. 628 00:23:29,505 --> 00:23:31,424 We're not a huge company, so we do 629 00:23:31,424 --> 00:23:33,265 not we don't have the buying power of 630 00:23:33,265 --> 00:23:35,025 some to be able to say, if you 631 00:23:35,025 --> 00:23:35,845 don't reach 632 00:23:36,305 --> 00:23:37,684 this threshold of sustainability, 633 00:23:38,305 --> 00:23:40,225 you you simply can't be in our supply 634 00:23:40,225 --> 00:23:42,809 chain. So the way we approach it is 635 00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:46,170 to engage with them every year with with 636 00:23:46,170 --> 00:23:46,670 sustainability 637 00:23:47,049 --> 00:23:49,690 assessment to encourage them, to ask them to 638 00:23:49,690 --> 00:23:51,309 join us on on the journey. 639 00:23:51,610 --> 00:23:53,710 So we are seeing improvements there already. 640 00:23:54,250 --> 00:23:56,170 You know, a couple of real successes in 641 00:23:56,170 --> 00:23:56,990 terms of, 642 00:23:57,370 --> 00:23:59,904 the suppliers we work with really taking on 643 00:23:59,904 --> 00:24:02,005 board what they, you know, what we initiated 644 00:24:02,065 --> 00:24:04,865 with them and and making great start strides. 645 00:24:04,865 --> 00:24:07,184 So we'll continue there. And as I say, 646 00:24:07,184 --> 00:24:09,445 you know, also to continue to support colleagues 647 00:24:09,744 --> 00:24:12,005 to develop their knowledge and and understanding 648 00:24:12,569 --> 00:24:14,509 so they can make good decisions, 649 00:24:15,289 --> 00:24:17,609 every day. And I think together, these these 650 00:24:17,609 --> 00:24:20,009 efforts will will really help us build on 651 00:24:20,009 --> 00:24:22,970 the progress we've we've already made and move 652 00:24:22,970 --> 00:24:24,829 closer to our sustainability goals. 653 00:24:25,164 --> 00:24:26,765 And I suppose it's a two way street, 654 00:24:26,765 --> 00:24:28,625 isn't it? Because we're we're a supplier. 655 00:24:29,005 --> 00:24:31,244 So I'm guessing that we have relationships with 656 00:24:31,244 --> 00:24:34,065 our customers, and our customers are asking us 657 00:24:34,444 --> 00:24:35,345 about our 658 00:24:35,644 --> 00:24:36,144 sustainability 659 00:24:36,605 --> 00:24:37,105 metrics. 660 00:24:38,369 --> 00:24:40,609 So those must be useful discussions as well, 661 00:24:40,609 --> 00:24:41,430 I would imagine. 662 00:24:41,970 --> 00:24:44,609 Absolutely. We're we're really seeing that in the 663 00:24:44,609 --> 00:24:47,089 last few years. So when we started on 664 00:24:47,089 --> 00:24:48,710 our journey in 2020, 665 00:24:49,410 --> 00:24:51,730 I don't think that I'd I'd come across 666 00:24:51,730 --> 00:24:53,924 any anybody asking us, really. 667 00:24:54,704 --> 00:24:56,224 There were that you know, there were various 668 00:24:56,224 --> 00:24:57,825 questions that came out of sort of audit 669 00:24:57,825 --> 00:25:00,305 process things. But, yes, we're we're seeing that 670 00:25:00,305 --> 00:25:03,424 a lot more now. So where customers are 671 00:25:03,424 --> 00:25:07,079 are licencing content or or or purchasing content, 672 00:25:07,299 --> 00:25:07,779 they're 673 00:25:08,419 --> 00:25:10,980 they are themselves constrained by their own governments 674 00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:12,039 or by their own 675 00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:13,000 frameworks 676 00:25:13,460 --> 00:25:14,679 to ensure the sustainability. 677 00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:17,380 So, yeah, it's really great to see that 678 00:25:17,380 --> 00:25:18,679 it's it's it's really 679 00:25:19,214 --> 00:25:22,575 spreading out there. It's becoming much more the 680 00:25:22,575 --> 00:25:23,075 norm 681 00:25:23,375 --> 00:25:25,454 to to be asked about these things than 682 00:25:25,454 --> 00:25:27,375 than when I started out on this journey 683 00:25:27,375 --> 00:25:28,275 five years ago. 684 00:25:29,134 --> 00:25:31,075 Well, that's great. Thanks, Liz. Congratulations. 685 00:25:31,775 --> 00:25:32,255 And, 686 00:25:33,214 --> 00:25:36,069 hopefully, the, the drop in carbon emissions will 687 00:25:36,069 --> 00:25:37,529 continue into the future. 688 00:25:37,829 --> 00:25:39,289 Thanks for coming on the podcast. 689 00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:41,429 Thanks, Hamish. It's been really great to be 690 00:25:41,429 --> 00:25:42,490 here. Thank you. 691 00:25:50,634 --> 00:25:53,375 That was Liz Martin, who is sustainability 692 00:25:53,835 --> 00:25:55,694 lead at IOP Publishing. 693 00:25:56,315 --> 00:25:58,974 Thanks, Liz, for a fascinating discussion 694 00:25:59,355 --> 00:26:00,335 about sustainability 695 00:26:01,115 --> 00:26:02,734 in scholarly publishing. 696 00:26:03,595 --> 00:26:05,569 You can find the sustainability 697 00:26:06,109 --> 00:26:06,609 report 698 00:26:06,990 --> 00:26:08,369 2025 699 00:26:08,669 --> 00:26:10,849 on the IOP publishing website, 700 00:26:11,390 --> 00:26:13,390 and I'll put a link to it in 701 00:26:13,390 --> 00:26:14,929 the notes for this episode. 702 00:26:15,789 --> 00:26:17,869 I'm afraid that's all the time we have 703 00:26:17,869 --> 00:26:19,089 for this week's podcast. 704 00:26:19,565 --> 00:26:23,005 I'm Hamish Johnston, and our producer is Fred 705 00:26:23,005 --> 00:26:23,505 Iles. 706 00:26:24,125 --> 00:26:27,005 The music for this podcast is called one 707 00:26:27,005 --> 00:26:30,224 three seven, and it was composed and performed 708 00:26:30,525 --> 00:26:31,424 by the physicist 709 00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:33,029 Philip Moriarty. 710 00:26:34,210 --> 00:26:36,450 We'll be back again next week when our 711 00:26:36,450 --> 00:26:38,309 guest will be the medical physicist, 712 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:39,430 inventor, 713 00:26:39,809 --> 00:26:40,789 and entrepreneur, 714 00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:42,630 Brian Pope.