1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,039 Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly 2 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:11,539 podcast. 3 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:13,139 I'm Hamish Johnston. 4 00:00:13,894 --> 00:00:17,355 I'm very pleased to announce that the 2025 5 00:00:17,654 --> 00:00:20,154 Physics World breakthrough of the year award 6 00:00:20,454 --> 00:00:21,914 goes to Gong Yuzhang 7 00:00:22,614 --> 00:00:23,434 and colleagues 8 00:00:23,894 --> 00:00:26,795 at the Institute of Physics of the Chinese 9 00:00:27,175 --> 00:00:28,474 Academy of Sciences. 10 00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:31,719 And they've won for producing the first 11 00:00:32,020 --> 00:00:33,960 two d sheets of metal. 12 00:00:34,979 --> 00:00:36,920 Coming up, I'm in conversation 13 00:00:37,219 --> 00:00:40,659 with Gong Yu, who explains why his team 14 00:00:40,659 --> 00:00:41,159 worked 15 00:00:41,475 --> 00:00:41,975 tirelessly 16 00:00:42,435 --> 00:00:45,954 to create two d versions of several different 17 00:00:45,954 --> 00:00:46,454 metals, 18 00:00:47,155 --> 00:00:50,195 and how these new materials could boost our 19 00:00:50,195 --> 00:00:52,534 understanding of condensed matter physics 20 00:00:53,075 --> 00:00:56,215 and lead to the development of new technologies. 21 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,759 I'm also joined in this episode by my 22 00:00:59,759 --> 00:01:01,299 colleague, Matin Durrani, 23 00:01:01,679 --> 00:01:04,239 to talk about what will be hot in 24 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:04,739 physics 25 00:01:05,119 --> 00:01:06,819 in 2026. 26 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:09,140 But first, a message 27 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:12,259 from reports on progress in physics, 28 00:01:12,795 --> 00:01:13,295 which 29 00:01:13,915 --> 00:01:15,375 supports the Physics World 30 00:01:15,834 --> 00:01:17,534 Breakthrough of the Year Award. 31 00:01:18,314 --> 00:01:20,015 Celebrating the most significant 32 00:01:20,394 --> 00:01:20,894 advances 33 00:01:21,435 --> 00:01:23,055 across the physical sciences, 34 00:01:23,834 --> 00:01:24,569 this award 35 00:01:24,969 --> 00:01:26,030 highlights discoveries 36 00:01:26,329 --> 00:01:27,150 that reshape 37 00:01:27,530 --> 00:01:28,430 our understanding 38 00:01:28,810 --> 00:01:29,629 of the universe 39 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:30,909 and inspire 40 00:01:31,370 --> 00:01:32,510 future innovation. 41 00:01:33,609 --> 00:01:35,709 Reports on Progress in Physics 42 00:01:36,010 --> 00:01:38,430 is the leading journal for authoritative 43 00:01:38,890 --> 00:01:39,390 research, 44 00:01:40,064 --> 00:01:42,004 connecting researchers worldwide 45 00:01:42,625 --> 00:01:44,325 with cutting edge insights 46 00:01:44,784 --> 00:01:46,644 across every field of physics. 47 00:01:47,185 --> 00:01:49,765 From quantum technologies to astrophysics, 48 00:01:50,465 --> 00:01:51,125 it provides 49 00:01:51,424 --> 00:01:52,805 the depth and clarity 50 00:01:53,340 --> 00:01:54,079 that drive 51 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:55,680 scientific progress. 52 00:01:56,299 --> 00:01:56,799 Search 53 00:01:57,099 --> 00:01:57,599 reports 54 00:01:57,900 --> 00:01:59,519 on progress in physics 55 00:01:59,819 --> 00:02:01,359 on your favorite browser 56 00:02:01,819 --> 00:02:03,359 to explore the ideas 57 00:02:03,819 --> 00:02:04,319 transforming 58 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:05,759 science today. 59 00:02:07,454 --> 00:02:10,175 One of the hottest topics in physics over 60 00:02:10,175 --> 00:02:11,474 the past two decades 61 00:02:11,854 --> 00:02:14,115 is the study of two d materials 62 00:02:14,495 --> 00:02:15,474 such as graphene, 63 00:02:16,175 --> 00:02:19,215 which itself is a sheet of carbon just 64 00:02:19,215 --> 00:02:20,675 one atom thick. 65 00:02:21,710 --> 00:02:23,330 While researchers have discovered 66 00:02:23,710 --> 00:02:24,370 a plethora 67 00:02:24,669 --> 00:02:25,490 of fascinating 68 00:02:26,030 --> 00:02:27,569 and potentially useful 69 00:02:27,870 --> 00:02:28,370 phenomena 70 00:02:28,750 --> 00:02:30,050 in two d materials, 71 00:02:31,069 --> 00:02:31,569 physicists 72 00:02:31,949 --> 00:02:34,849 had not been able to create and study 73 00:02:35,415 --> 00:02:36,474 two d versions 74 00:02:36,775 --> 00:02:37,514 of metals. 75 00:02:38,375 --> 00:02:39,194 But now, 76 00:02:39,655 --> 00:02:40,474 Gong Yuzhong 77 00:02:41,014 --> 00:02:41,754 and colleagues 78 00:02:42,135 --> 00:02:44,074 have found a way forward. 79 00:02:44,775 --> 00:02:47,514 He joins me down the line from Beijing 80 00:02:47,974 --> 00:02:50,155 to talk about his group's research. 81 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,740 Hi, Gong Yu. Welcome to the podcast. 82 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:03,980 Hi, Hamish. 83 00:03:04,415 --> 00:03:05,555 Nice to meet you. 84 00:03:06,014 --> 00:03:06,995 And and congratulations 85 00:03:07,455 --> 00:03:10,415 to you and your team for, winning this 86 00:03:10,415 --> 00:03:10,915 year's 87 00:03:11,375 --> 00:03:13,955 Physics World breakthrough of the year. 88 00:03:14,814 --> 00:03:16,594 Thank you very much. 89 00:03:17,020 --> 00:03:19,180 So so I'd like to start, with the 90 00:03:19,180 --> 00:03:20,560 basics, with the motivation 91 00:03:20,860 --> 00:03:21,840 for your research. 92 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:25,120 Why why are you interested in creating 93 00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:28,300 two d metals? Why why are they, you 94 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:30,000 know, such a fascinating system? 95 00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:31,840 Okay. 96 00:03:32,175 --> 00:03:32,675 So, 97 00:03:33,694 --> 00:03:36,354 this question actually can be divided 98 00:03:36,655 --> 00:03:38,194 into two questions. 99 00:03:38,814 --> 00:03:40,895 The first one is why we are interested 100 00:03:40,895 --> 00:03:41,395 in, 101 00:03:41,854 --> 00:03:44,275 two d materials, and the second is, 102 00:03:44,655 --> 00:03:46,834 why we are interested in, metals. 103 00:03:47,430 --> 00:03:48,329 So the first 104 00:03:48,709 --> 00:03:49,349 question is, 105 00:03:49,989 --> 00:03:50,489 because, 106 00:03:52,789 --> 00:03:54,310 right now, everybody knows, 107 00:03:54,789 --> 00:03:56,009 graphene. Right? 108 00:03:56,310 --> 00:03:58,469 So graphene is a well known two d 109 00:03:58,469 --> 00:04:00,185 materials. It's discovered 110 00:04:00,564 --> 00:04:02,004 in 2004, 111 00:04:02,245 --> 00:04:02,745 from, 112 00:04:03,284 --> 00:04:03,784 Manchester, 113 00:04:05,205 --> 00:04:05,705 University. 114 00:04:06,004 --> 00:04:08,504 So the two d material has many fascinating 115 00:04:08,645 --> 00:04:09,145 properties. 116 00:04:09,685 --> 00:04:11,385 So related to, 117 00:04:11,844 --> 00:04:12,344 their, 118 00:04:12,965 --> 00:04:13,784 low demand, 119 00:04:14,245 --> 00:04:14,905 low dimension 120 00:04:16,029 --> 00:04:16,529 analogy. 121 00:04:17,149 --> 00:04:18,209 So when you, 122 00:04:19,149 --> 00:04:19,629 shrink, 123 00:04:20,029 --> 00:04:21,009 a bulk material 124 00:04:21,550 --> 00:04:22,930 to, two dimensions, 125 00:04:23,310 --> 00:04:26,029 this this this material is is very, very 126 00:04:26,029 --> 00:04:29,569 faint. It's atomically thin. So such same materials 127 00:04:29,870 --> 00:04:30,285 have, 128 00:04:31,485 --> 00:04:34,305 so in most cases, it has very different, 129 00:04:34,845 --> 00:04:35,324 properties, 130 00:04:36,365 --> 00:04:38,225 compared to their buck, 131 00:04:38,764 --> 00:04:40,225 like a like a graphite, 132 00:04:40,845 --> 00:04:41,345 versus, 133 00:04:41,884 --> 00:04:44,205 graphene. So graphene is very different, 134 00:04:45,169 --> 00:04:47,969 to to to graphite. Right? So this is 135 00:04:47,969 --> 00:04:49,829 a one, one one, 136 00:04:50,289 --> 00:04:51,909 motivation. So we are, 137 00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:53,909 are going to pursue, 138 00:04:54,849 --> 00:04:57,349 like, new two two d materials. 139 00:04:58,425 --> 00:04:58,925 So 140 00:04:59,384 --> 00:05:02,925 the second one is why why metals. Right? 141 00:05:03,064 --> 00:05:06,665 So, metals are are are very common in 142 00:05:06,665 --> 00:05:08,985 our in our daily life. Right? You can 143 00:05:08,985 --> 00:05:11,169 see it everywhere, and we use it every 144 00:05:11,169 --> 00:05:13,189 day. Right? So so metals, 145 00:05:13,729 --> 00:05:15,349 if you look at the theoretical, 146 00:05:16,289 --> 00:05:16,789 table, 147 00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:20,610 you will find, like, over like, around 80% 148 00:05:20,610 --> 00:05:24,305 of elements are metals. This is and metals 149 00:05:24,305 --> 00:05:28,064 are are are are, it can behave very 150 00:05:28,064 --> 00:05:29,605 differently, like, from 151 00:05:30,064 --> 00:05:31,444 metals can be magnetic. 152 00:05:31,824 --> 00:05:32,964 Metals can be, 153 00:05:33,264 --> 00:05:34,645 can be silver conducting, 154 00:05:35,185 --> 00:05:36,404 and, metals, 155 00:05:37,009 --> 00:05:39,410 so can be used for for, you know, 156 00:05:39,410 --> 00:05:40,389 for many, many, 157 00:05:41,090 --> 00:05:41,590 cases. 158 00:05:42,610 --> 00:05:43,210 So, like, 159 00:05:43,650 --> 00:05:45,970 so this huge amount of, 160 00:05:46,610 --> 00:05:48,555 of of of choices in the 161 00:05:49,115 --> 00:05:51,754 periodical table. So we we want to do 162 00:05:51,754 --> 00:05:52,654 it, like, 163 00:05:53,274 --> 00:05:55,694 in two d forms of metals. But, 164 00:05:57,115 --> 00:05:57,615 like, 165 00:05:58,555 --> 00:05:59,055 spuriously, 166 00:05:59,754 --> 00:06:01,694 these metals, actually, 167 00:06:02,419 --> 00:06:05,060 they cannot be made into the key two 168 00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:08,180 d forms. The the the this is our 169 00:06:08,180 --> 00:06:08,680 motivation. 170 00:06:10,339 --> 00:06:12,339 And and you mentioned that it it is 171 00:06:12,339 --> 00:06:14,279 very difficult to make metals 172 00:06:14,955 --> 00:06:15,455 into, 173 00:06:16,074 --> 00:06:17,375 into two d materials. 174 00:06:17,915 --> 00:06:19,754 Can can you explain why? Does it have 175 00:06:19,754 --> 00:06:21,055 to do with how the 176 00:06:21,355 --> 00:06:23,455 atoms in a metal bond 177 00:06:24,235 --> 00:06:24,735 differently 178 00:06:25,115 --> 00:06:26,654 to, let's say, carbon 179 00:06:27,899 --> 00:06:30,220 atoms. Is is is that the main problem 180 00:06:30,220 --> 00:06:31,920 that they just don't want to 181 00:06:32,379 --> 00:06:35,580 only bond in in two directions? You've you've 182 00:06:35,580 --> 00:06:37,839 got the third direction as well. 183 00:06:38,939 --> 00:06:39,439 Exactly. 184 00:06:39,904 --> 00:06:40,404 So, 185 00:06:40,944 --> 00:06:44,225 like in graphene, carbon atoms are are bonded 186 00:06:44,225 --> 00:06:44,465 in, 187 00:06:45,504 --> 00:06:48,545 in, in a form of covalent bonds. So 188 00:06:48,545 --> 00:06:50,085 these bonds are very strong. 189 00:06:50,465 --> 00:06:54,079 And, also these bonds are very anisotropic. So, 190 00:06:56,620 --> 00:06:57,919 this is one reason, 191 00:06:58,699 --> 00:06:59,680 like, we can, 192 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:04,219 use, the exfoliation method to create two d 193 00:07:04,219 --> 00:07:07,360 materials for many two d materials, like graphene, 194 00:07:07,995 --> 00:07:10,254 like a black phosphorus, like like, 195 00:07:11,194 --> 00:07:12,574 like, a monolith sulfide, 196 00:07:13,595 --> 00:07:16,254 like many many many other materials. 197 00:07:16,795 --> 00:07:19,375 So, but if you look at the metals, 198 00:07:19,514 --> 00:07:21,055 so most metals are 199 00:07:21,470 --> 00:07:22,850 are are isotropic. 200 00:07:23,389 --> 00:07:24,370 So so 201 00:07:24,750 --> 00:07:25,250 if 202 00:07:25,790 --> 00:07:27,569 the atoms are arranged, 203 00:07:28,029 --> 00:07:30,850 like, if you look at the lattice so 204 00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:33,009 if if you regard 205 00:07:33,310 --> 00:07:35,504 one atom as a man, so if you 206 00:07:35,504 --> 00:07:37,665 look, like, all around a few, so you 207 00:07:37,665 --> 00:07:39,845 will see up and down, left and right, 208 00:07:40,064 --> 00:07:42,305 back and forth. Like, you see 209 00:07:43,504 --> 00:07:46,704 yeah. You are surrounded by by many items, 210 00:07:46,704 --> 00:07:49,125 but these items are are the same, 211 00:07:49,740 --> 00:07:52,139 just as the same to you that that, 212 00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:55,040 so that means this this materials, 213 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:58,240 you know, the lattice is is very isotropic. 214 00:07:58,460 --> 00:07:59,839 So you cannot use, 215 00:08:00,779 --> 00:08:02,000 like, a mechanical, 216 00:08:02,620 --> 00:08:03,120 exfoliation 217 00:08:03,420 --> 00:08:03,920 method 218 00:08:04,435 --> 00:08:06,834 to to create, like, a two d form 219 00:08:06,834 --> 00:08:07,574 of metals. 220 00:08:07,954 --> 00:08:10,354 So this is the one, one one, 221 00:08:10,995 --> 00:08:11,495 difficulty. 222 00:08:13,475 --> 00:08:15,154 And, I mean, that's you know, when when 223 00:08:15,154 --> 00:08:16,375 we were looking over, 224 00:08:17,089 --> 00:08:18,930 you know, all the sort of work that 225 00:08:19,089 --> 00:08:21,189 that's been done in physics this year, 226 00:08:22,050 --> 00:08:23,730 you know, I think, you you know, the 227 00:08:23,730 --> 00:08:25,669 the the fact that you've managed to overcome 228 00:08:25,810 --> 00:08:29,029 that was the thing that really stood out. 229 00:08:29,785 --> 00:08:32,684 And, you know, it's why we we chose, 230 00:08:33,384 --> 00:08:35,384 your work as our breakthrough of the year. 231 00:08:35,384 --> 00:08:37,325 You know, we were scratching our heads thinking, 232 00:08:37,544 --> 00:08:38,605 how on earth, 233 00:08:39,384 --> 00:08:42,610 you know, have they managed to to get 234 00:08:42,750 --> 00:08:45,089 a a metal to to to create, 235 00:08:46,269 --> 00:08:48,429 a a two d structure? So how did 236 00:08:48,429 --> 00:08:50,129 you do it? How did you overcome 237 00:08:50,589 --> 00:08:51,089 this 238 00:08:51,709 --> 00:08:54,990 urge for metals to bond in all three 239 00:08:54,990 --> 00:08:55,490 dimensions, 240 00:08:56,965 --> 00:08:59,225 to to create a two d metal? 241 00:09:00,085 --> 00:09:02,024 Yeah. So, in principle, 242 00:09:02,485 --> 00:09:05,545 metals cannot have a stable two d structure. 243 00:09:05,925 --> 00:09:06,425 Like, 244 00:09:06,804 --> 00:09:08,985 if you use a, like, a freestanding 245 00:09:09,610 --> 00:09:11,070 a two d form of metals, 246 00:09:11,450 --> 00:09:12,990 this structure is totally, 247 00:09:14,169 --> 00:09:14,910 not stable. 248 00:09:15,450 --> 00:09:18,009 So, it is it it should not be 249 00:09:18,009 --> 00:09:19,470 existed, in nature. 250 00:09:20,009 --> 00:09:23,309 This is the the the the also violation 251 00:09:23,529 --> 00:09:26,384 of a of a common sense. Like, so 252 00:09:26,384 --> 00:09:27,664 so we we have, 253 00:09:28,464 --> 00:09:31,605 so we developed we have developed our, a 254 00:09:31,664 --> 00:09:35,264 a a a process. We called it one 255 00:09:35,264 --> 00:09:36,164 of our squeezing. 256 00:09:36,625 --> 00:09:37,125 So 257 00:09:37,504 --> 00:09:39,284 so the idea is very simple. 258 00:09:39,690 --> 00:09:40,910 Like, so, 259 00:09:42,009 --> 00:09:43,149 so if you like, 260 00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:44,830 you just imagine 261 00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:46,429 a metal like 262 00:09:47,290 --> 00:09:48,450 a a a kind of like a model 263 00:09:48,450 --> 00:09:51,129 or something. Like, it's very soft. So if 264 00:09:51,129 --> 00:09:52,889 you squeeze it, you squeeze it, you can 265 00:09:52,889 --> 00:09:55,434 make it thinner and thinner. So the problem 266 00:09:55,434 --> 00:09:57,534 is if you can squeeze it 267 00:09:57,835 --> 00:09:58,335 into, 268 00:09:58,875 --> 00:09:59,934 like, just a, 269 00:10:00,554 --> 00:10:02,335 one atom sick, like, 270 00:10:02,714 --> 00:10:05,914 to a physical limit. So that's that that 271 00:10:05,914 --> 00:10:06,394 is, 272 00:10:07,629 --> 00:10:08,769 the most important, 273 00:10:09,470 --> 00:10:09,970 thing. 274 00:10:10,829 --> 00:10:11,709 So we have, 275 00:10:12,509 --> 00:10:14,990 this the thing is, like, if you want 276 00:10:14,990 --> 00:10:16,610 to, like, squeeze it 277 00:10:17,549 --> 00:10:19,009 squeeze, like, press 278 00:10:19,514 --> 00:10:20,495 the metal, 279 00:10:21,035 --> 00:10:21,535 into, 280 00:10:22,315 --> 00:10:24,014 the, the two d image. 281 00:10:24,394 --> 00:10:25,295 So we need, 282 00:10:26,075 --> 00:10:27,295 we need to 283 00:10:27,754 --> 00:10:29,835 use, like, a the the top and the 284 00:10:29,835 --> 00:10:31,855 bottom surface must be atomically 285 00:10:32,450 --> 00:10:35,090 flat. So, otherwise, you cannot create, like, a 286 00:10:35,090 --> 00:10:37,490 large area of of two b two d 287 00:10:37,490 --> 00:10:37,990 crystals. 288 00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:41,410 So the second thing is you have to 289 00:10:41,410 --> 00:10:41,910 use, 290 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:43,750 like, a quite high pressure 291 00:10:44,289 --> 00:10:44,690 and, 292 00:10:45,250 --> 00:10:47,190 and last quite a long time 293 00:10:47,544 --> 00:10:49,945 to make these metals, like, to to, like, 294 00:10:49,945 --> 00:10:50,445 rearrange, 295 00:10:51,065 --> 00:10:51,565 like, 296 00:10:51,945 --> 00:10:56,024 at this confined surf confined space. Like, it's 297 00:10:56,024 --> 00:10:59,085 confined by the two surfaces of these atomic 298 00:10:59,144 --> 00:11:00,125 is most surfaces. 299 00:11:00,610 --> 00:11:00,690 And, 300 00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:01,809 and, 301 00:11:02,290 --> 00:11:02,790 and, 302 00:11:03,410 --> 00:11:05,970 to make it like to to rearrange in 303 00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:06,790 this confined 304 00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:09,649 space to form a two d metal, a 305 00:11:09,649 --> 00:11:10,149 lattice. 306 00:11:12,735 --> 00:11:14,274 And and so you 307 00:11:14,735 --> 00:11:17,294 you were able to to to do this 308 00:11:17,294 --> 00:11:18,115 with several 309 00:11:18,894 --> 00:11:19,394 metals. 310 00:11:19,855 --> 00:11:20,335 Yeah. 311 00:11:21,214 --> 00:11:23,634 I think five of them. Did you, 312 00:11:24,495 --> 00:11:26,414 were they I mean, once you managed to 313 00:11:26,414 --> 00:11:27,075 get them, 314 00:11:27,490 --> 00:11:29,910 you know, sort of into a two d 315 00:11:30,050 --> 00:11:30,550 structure, 316 00:11:31,009 --> 00:11:33,990 did they do they still behave like metals, 317 00:11:34,050 --> 00:11:35,490 you know, in the sense that we would 318 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:37,029 think of metals as being 319 00:11:37,410 --> 00:11:38,149 good conductors 320 00:11:39,009 --> 00:11:40,629 of electricity, for example, 321 00:11:40,975 --> 00:11:42,835 or did their properties 322 00:11:43,855 --> 00:11:44,514 change dramatically? 323 00:11:44,975 --> 00:11:47,975 Did they become semiconductors or insulators? Or Yeah. 324 00:11:48,095 --> 00:11:50,115 You know, what Yeah. What exactly happened? 325 00:11:50,975 --> 00:11:51,875 Yeah. That's 326 00:11:52,254 --> 00:11:54,894 what we are we are studying right now, 327 00:11:54,894 --> 00:11:56,139 actually. So 328 00:11:56,519 --> 00:11:59,000 we we found that, like, for a very 329 00:11:59,000 --> 00:11:59,500 simple, 330 00:11:59,879 --> 00:12:03,419 metal like bismuth. Like, so so the bismuth, 331 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,480 if you make it to two d. But, 332 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,200 actually, you have 333 00:12:07,399 --> 00:12:09,879 it will have in principle, it will have 334 00:12:09,879 --> 00:12:10,379 different 335 00:12:11,284 --> 00:12:12,264 atomic structures. 336 00:12:12,804 --> 00:12:14,664 Like, it have different phases. 337 00:12:15,125 --> 00:12:17,865 And these different phases give you totally different 338 00:12:18,084 --> 00:12:18,584 properties. 339 00:12:19,204 --> 00:12:22,504 So some of them are are just, metallic, 340 00:12:22,725 --> 00:12:24,240 very, very, very 341 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:25,700 electronically, 342 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:26,820 very conductive. 343 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,039 And, the others are are even, semiconductor, but 344 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:32,580 the gap is is quite small. 345 00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:35,039 And, also, the we have we have, 346 00:12:36,455 --> 00:12:38,215 we have developed this pro 347 00:12:39,095 --> 00:12:39,995 approach approach, 348 00:12:40,455 --> 00:12:40,955 for, 349 00:12:41,575 --> 00:12:42,615 right now, we have, 350 00:12:43,254 --> 00:12:43,754 reported 351 00:12:44,134 --> 00:12:44,634 five 352 00:12:45,014 --> 00:12:45,914 single element, 353 00:12:46,455 --> 00:12:47,674 single element metals, 354 00:12:48,054 --> 00:12:50,129 like but, actually, we can do more, 355 00:12:52,049 --> 00:12:54,470 like, because of the the the the like, 356 00:12:55,649 --> 00:12:56,450 88, 357 00:12:56,769 --> 00:12:59,809 kind of metals in the in in the 358 00:12:59,809 --> 00:13:00,950 theoretical table. 359 00:13:01,330 --> 00:13:03,585 But right now, it's just five. So we 360 00:13:03,904 --> 00:13:05,605 still over, like, eighties 361 00:13:05,985 --> 00:13:09,105 18 metal, like, a single atom metals to, 362 00:13:09,585 --> 00:13:10,565 to do, like, 363 00:13:12,065 --> 00:13:14,165 later. And, also, if you consider 364 00:13:14,705 --> 00:13:16,004 the metals actually, 365 00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:17,289 it it 366 00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:20,409 it it have other forms, like binary 367 00:13:20,789 --> 00:13:22,730 alloys, like like like 368 00:13:23,189 --> 00:13:24,230 like bismuths and, 369 00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:28,089 and, and, and, something else, 370 00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:31,850 like and, also, you have much more, complex 371 00:13:31,909 --> 00:13:35,085 system, like of like, for example, like, five 372 00:13:35,085 --> 00:13:35,585 different, 373 00:13:36,445 --> 00:13:39,105 metals. You can mix it together and, 374 00:13:39,644 --> 00:13:41,644 and make it in two d form. I 375 00:13:41,644 --> 00:13:43,825 think this kind of works are very interesting 376 00:13:43,884 --> 00:13:46,399 in the future and we are doing that. 377 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:49,340 And have you I mean, in terms of 378 00:13:49,419 --> 00:13:50,940 yeah. I I know it's sort of early 379 00:13:50,940 --> 00:13:53,100 days in terms of studying the properties of 380 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:55,840 these two d metals. But are there, 381 00:13:56,460 --> 00:13:58,539 I mean, do you have any experimental evidence, 382 00:13:58,539 --> 00:14:00,559 or maybe there's theoretical predictions 383 00:14:01,304 --> 00:14:04,105 that some two d metals could have very 384 00:14:04,105 --> 00:14:04,605 useful 385 00:14:05,384 --> 00:14:06,524 electronic properties, 386 00:14:07,384 --> 00:14:09,325 you know, for, I don't know, creating 387 00:14:10,585 --> 00:14:13,884 computer chips or sensors or quantum devices? 388 00:14:14,909 --> 00:14:15,409 You 389 00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:19,009 know, is there some technological relevance here? 390 00:14:19,870 --> 00:14:20,929 Sure. Sure. 391 00:14:21,389 --> 00:14:22,850 I think there are 392 00:14:23,230 --> 00:14:24,129 plenty of, 393 00:14:24,990 --> 00:14:25,490 possibilities 394 00:14:25,870 --> 00:14:28,669 in the future to do such studies. Like, 395 00:14:28,669 --> 00:14:29,569 you know, like, 396 00:14:30,105 --> 00:14:32,584 for example, just as you mentioned, like, for 397 00:14:32,584 --> 00:14:36,264 computer chips. So if, like, because right now, 398 00:14:36,264 --> 00:14:38,284 the CPU chips, like, 399 00:14:39,065 --> 00:14:42,125 so the basic elements are, transistors. 400 00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:44,710 So when the when the transistors are getting, 401 00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:46,090 like, smaller and smaller, 402 00:14:47,029 --> 00:14:49,450 like, like, so we, like, 403 00:14:49,830 --> 00:14:50,330 because, 404 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:54,009 the Moore's law is still going. Right? 405 00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:54,970 So 406 00:14:55,429 --> 00:14:58,024 so we want to make such a fabricate, 407 00:14:58,165 --> 00:15:01,125 such transistor, such devices to be, like, even 408 00:15:01,125 --> 00:15:03,144 smaller. Like, when you, like, 409 00:15:03,524 --> 00:15:04,745 shrink shrink reduce 410 00:15:05,285 --> 00:15:07,924 the dimension of of of the size or 411 00:15:07,924 --> 00:15:10,230 the size of the device to to be 412 00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:12,470 very, very small, like, at at a a 413 00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:12,970 nanos 414 00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:16,710 at nanometer scale. So you you view we 415 00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:17,450 we view 416 00:15:17,830 --> 00:15:18,970 face this 417 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:20,809 serious problems, 418 00:15:21,429 --> 00:15:24,330 like, about about this dimensional, 419 00:15:25,254 --> 00:15:25,754 reduction. 420 00:15:27,334 --> 00:15:30,794 For example, so every transistor use metal contacts. 421 00:15:31,095 --> 00:15:32,714 So when the metal wears 422 00:15:33,254 --> 00:15:35,754 are reducing, like, around, like, 10 nanometer 423 00:15:36,294 --> 00:15:38,334 or or something around, like, 424 00:15:38,774 --> 00:15:39,674 it will be 425 00:15:40,250 --> 00:15:43,690 less connective, and it will be face, like, 426 00:15:43,690 --> 00:15:44,909 variation problem. 427 00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:48,570 So if we we can replace such a 428 00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:49,549 connecting wires 429 00:15:49,929 --> 00:15:50,429 to, 430 00:15:51,049 --> 00:15:52,269 like, a two d metals, 431 00:15:53,075 --> 00:15:54,855 it will be much better. 432 00:15:55,394 --> 00:15:58,195 I see. Yeah. Another thing is, yeah, another 433 00:15:58,195 --> 00:15:59,254 thing is, like, 434 00:15:59,955 --> 00:16:02,835 I I I give you another example. Like, 435 00:16:03,075 --> 00:16:03,394 like, 436 00:16:04,035 --> 00:16:05,575 we know, like, like, 437 00:16:06,445 --> 00:16:09,529 like, Aaron Nickel or something like that. 438 00:16:09,909 --> 00:16:10,490 It's magnetic. 439 00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:13,509 So but, but the thing is, if you 440 00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:16,730 can make it, like, a a a single 441 00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:20,230 atomic layer of of of Aaron or or 442 00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:21,289 nickel or cobalt, 443 00:16:21,815 --> 00:16:24,075 Like, this kind of thing can give you, 444 00:16:24,615 --> 00:16:25,115 quite, 445 00:16:25,735 --> 00:16:26,955 quite, promising, 446 00:16:27,735 --> 00:16:28,235 properties, 447 00:16:28,615 --> 00:16:29,115 because, 448 00:16:30,134 --> 00:16:32,634 in theory, we have some calculations, 449 00:16:33,095 --> 00:16:33,595 previously. 450 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,420 Like, if you make such kind of thing, 451 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,940 you can use it for some, like, like, 452 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,580 like, quantum hall effect. 453 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,899 You can make some useful devices, 454 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:46,420 like, in the future. 455 00:16:47,964 --> 00:16:51,004 And you mentioned that, you're interested in your 456 00:16:51,004 --> 00:16:52,384 lab at at exploring 457 00:16:53,404 --> 00:16:55,725 other metals, you know, whether you can make 458 00:16:55,725 --> 00:16:58,464 two d versions of other metals. Are some 459 00:16:58,684 --> 00:16:59,904 metals easier 460 00:17:00,339 --> 00:17:02,759 to make in two d than others? 461 00:17:03,379 --> 00:17:04,980 Is that what you've found, or is that 462 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:05,880 what you expect? 463 00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:07,319 Sure. 464 00:17:07,619 --> 00:17:08,599 This is absolutely 465 00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:09,940 true. Like, 466 00:17:10,420 --> 00:17:13,460 because we we we have, we have report 467 00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:16,154 five. Right? Five type of metals. That kind 468 00:17:16,154 --> 00:17:18,795 of metals are actually are easier are easier 469 00:17:18,795 --> 00:17:21,054 to make, like, in two d forms. 470 00:17:21,674 --> 00:17:23,454 But, for some, 471 00:17:23,914 --> 00:17:27,515 some other metals, like, especially the the high 472 00:17:27,515 --> 00:17:28,815 melting point metals, 473 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,000 is is where it's it's quite difficult. It's 474 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,180 more difficult to, to make, 475 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,140 because this is limited by, 476 00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:39,140 by by the experimental 477 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:39,940 setup, 478 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,740 because in that, you you need to, 479 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:44,660 add a high pressure. 480 00:17:45,105 --> 00:17:47,924 At the same time, you you you you, 481 00:17:48,785 --> 00:17:49,365 you thought 482 00:17:49,664 --> 00:17:50,164 a 483 00:17:51,105 --> 00:17:53,744 high high temperature. Right? The temperature is higher 484 00:17:53,744 --> 00:17:54,545 to make your 485 00:17:55,265 --> 00:17:56,404 make these environments, 486 00:17:56,785 --> 00:17:57,845 like, more difficult. 487 00:17:59,230 --> 00:18:01,630 I see. Okay. Well, it sounds like you've 488 00:18:01,630 --> 00:18:02,269 got lots of, 489 00:18:03,149 --> 00:18:05,149 lots of potential work for you and your 490 00:18:05,149 --> 00:18:05,649 team 491 00:18:05,950 --> 00:18:06,769 in the future. 492 00:18:08,349 --> 00:18:10,349 So thanks thanks so much for coming on 493 00:18:10,349 --> 00:18:12,609 the podcast. And, again, congratulations 494 00:18:13,149 --> 00:18:13,389 for, 495 00:18:14,664 --> 00:18:18,125 for being the, recipients of the Physics World 496 00:18:18,505 --> 00:18:20,585 breakthrough of the year for 2025, 497 00:18:20,585 --> 00:18:21,724 you and your team. 498 00:18:22,184 --> 00:18:24,265 And, yeah, here at Physics World, we wish 499 00:18:24,265 --> 00:18:25,724 you all the best. 500 00:18:26,424 --> 00:18:27,164 Thank you. 501 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:30,480 Thank you, Hamish. Thank you. See you 502 00:18:36,059 --> 00:18:36,559 later. 503 00:18:38,059 --> 00:18:39,440 That was Gong Yuzhang 504 00:18:40,015 --> 00:18:42,515 at the Institute of Physics of the Chinese 505 00:18:42,894 --> 00:18:44,115 Academy of Sciences, 506 00:18:44,654 --> 00:18:46,894 who led the team that has won the 507 00:18:46,894 --> 00:18:48,275 2025 508 00:18:48,575 --> 00:18:51,694 Physics World breakthrough of the year award for 509 00:18:51,694 --> 00:18:54,755 their pioneering work on two d metals. 510 00:18:55,349 --> 00:18:57,930 And there's much more about the Physics World 511 00:18:58,150 --> 00:19:00,650 breakthrough of the year and the nine 512 00:19:01,029 --> 00:19:03,049 runners up on the website. 513 00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:06,730 As this year is drawing to an end, 514 00:19:06,869 --> 00:19:09,670 here at Physics World, we're busy planning for 515 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:10,845 2026. 516 00:19:11,644 --> 00:19:14,125 Joining me to chat about what will be 517 00:19:14,125 --> 00:19:15,265 hot in physics 518 00:19:15,644 --> 00:19:18,224 in the coming year is Matin Durrani, 519 00:19:18,845 --> 00:19:20,065 editor in chief 520 00:19:20,365 --> 00:19:21,585 of Physics World. 521 00:19:22,044 --> 00:19:22,784 Hi, Matin. 522 00:19:23,244 --> 00:19:24,144 Hello, Hamish. 523 00:19:24,769 --> 00:19:25,269 So, 524 00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:28,369 what's going to be hot in physics in 525 00:19:28,369 --> 00:19:29,329 2026? 526 00:19:29,329 --> 00:19:30,690 Do you have any pics? Have you got 527 00:19:30,690 --> 00:19:32,789 your crystal ball out yet? 528 00:19:33,169 --> 00:19:34,849 Well, you're right. I what I always used 529 00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:36,549 to do is I'd get my imaginary 530 00:19:36,929 --> 00:19:39,204 crystal ball out and try and predict what's 531 00:19:39,204 --> 00:19:40,644 gonna happen in physics. But you know what 532 00:19:40,644 --> 00:19:43,125 it's like, Hamish. It's so difficult to know 533 00:19:43,125 --> 00:19:44,825 what's gonna happen in physics because, 534 00:19:45,204 --> 00:19:46,244 you know, if we knew what was gonna 535 00:19:46,244 --> 00:19:48,085 happen, we wouldn't bother doing physics. We wouldn't 536 00:19:48,085 --> 00:19:49,384 get out of bed, would we? 537 00:19:50,269 --> 00:19:51,630 I mean, there were only some things that 538 00:19:51,630 --> 00:19:53,950 you can always guarantee, which are things like, 539 00:19:54,429 --> 00:19:57,630 specific space missions launching or a particle collider 540 00:19:57,630 --> 00:20:00,029 opening or a light source. And those are 541 00:20:00,029 --> 00:20:02,444 sort of the big science projects, which have 542 00:20:02,444 --> 00:20:05,325 big timetables and, you know, big plan. Those 543 00:20:05,325 --> 00:20:06,684 are the kind of things that you can 544 00:20:06,684 --> 00:20:08,125 know about for sure. 545 00:20:08,605 --> 00:20:10,845 But it's a really thankless task. So, basically, 546 00:20:10,845 --> 00:20:12,765 Hamish, to answer your question, what's gonna happen 547 00:20:12,765 --> 00:20:15,839 next year? I don't know. However, we've got 548 00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:17,599 a couple of things lined up on Physics 549 00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:18,579 World, which, 550 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,119 these, online panel discussions called, Physics World Live. 551 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,220 And I guess we've got three coming up, 552 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,755 which in a sense is our take on 553 00:20:27,755 --> 00:20:29,595 what we think of the, the big things 554 00:20:29,595 --> 00:20:31,214 in physics happening right now. 555 00:20:31,515 --> 00:20:33,034 And these I mean, I have to say 556 00:20:33,034 --> 00:20:34,815 these are very timely topics. 557 00:20:35,515 --> 00:20:37,615 One of them is quantum metrology, 558 00:20:38,394 --> 00:20:40,554 and anything quantum is very hot. I mean, 559 00:20:40,554 --> 00:20:43,820 you're you're pretty well guaranteed that anything quantum 560 00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:47,039 will be hot and exciting in 2026. 561 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:50,080 Another one is on fusion energy, 562 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:53,100 and it seems like the momentum is is 563 00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:56,695 growing, isn't it, for fusion fusion energy? Lots 564 00:20:56,695 --> 00:20:59,275 of small and medium sized companies coming in 565 00:20:59,414 --> 00:20:59,894 with, 566 00:21:00,375 --> 00:21:03,654 novel technologies that they hope will sort of 567 00:21:03,654 --> 00:21:04,154 crack, 568 00:21:05,255 --> 00:21:07,515 crack what has been a very difficult problem 569 00:21:07,654 --> 00:21:09,674 getting fusion energy going. 570 00:21:10,679 --> 00:21:13,720 Medical physics, again, you know, applying physics to 571 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,019 medicine is a very, very hot topic. So 572 00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:19,400 what what what are these physics world live 573 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,559 events? And so what, you know, what what 574 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,259 why are we covering these topics? 575 00:21:23,835 --> 00:21:25,115 Well, we've been doing this for a few 576 00:21:25,115 --> 00:21:27,115 years now, Hamish. So these are online panel 577 00:21:27,115 --> 00:21:27,615 discussions 578 00:21:27,914 --> 00:21:28,414 about, 579 00:21:29,035 --> 00:21:30,734 particular hot topics in physics. 580 00:21:31,755 --> 00:21:34,474 So anybody can register and and and watch 581 00:21:34,474 --> 00:21:37,029 them. So, yeah, the first one, which you're 582 00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:38,549 actually organizing, Hamish, so I hope you know 583 00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:40,410 what this is about. It's about quantum metrology. 584 00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:41,769 So the idea of, 585 00:21:43,509 --> 00:21:46,089 ensuring it's ways of ensuring companies and academics 586 00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:49,289 can sort of test and validate and commercialize 587 00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:52,384 new quantum tech. And we know that, you 588 00:21:52,384 --> 00:21:54,384 know, it's been the International Year of Quantum 589 00:21:54,384 --> 00:21:56,944 Science Technology, which, by the way, that is 590 00:21:56,944 --> 00:21:58,625 one thing that's happening next year. It draws 591 00:21:58,625 --> 00:22:00,704 to a close with a closing ceremony in 592 00:22:00,704 --> 00:22:02,565 Ghana, so that's something that's happening. 593 00:22:02,865 --> 00:22:04,065 And we know that there's a it's a 594 00:22:04,065 --> 00:22:06,829 burgeoning industry, and you need the metrologists 595 00:22:07,289 --> 00:22:09,069 to come in and sort of validate 596 00:22:09,369 --> 00:22:11,950 these technologies and make sure that everybody's operating 597 00:22:12,009 --> 00:22:14,409 to the same standards and principles. And you 598 00:22:14,409 --> 00:22:16,829 can sort of you could compare different 599 00:22:17,130 --> 00:22:18,970 pieces of kits, and it's really important that 600 00:22:18,970 --> 00:22:20,250 you have that in place so that the 601 00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:21,710 industry as a whole can 602 00:22:22,065 --> 00:22:24,244 can make progress. So I think quantum metrology 603 00:22:25,504 --> 00:22:27,744 is a really important area. So, well, we're 604 00:22:27,744 --> 00:22:29,924 looking forward to doing that one. Oh, definitely. 605 00:22:29,984 --> 00:22:31,504 I I was I was very lucky. I 606 00:22:31,504 --> 00:22:34,164 went to a a conference or a meeting. 607 00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:36,809 I suppose possibly it's better to describe it 608 00:22:36,809 --> 00:22:37,869 as on quantum 609 00:22:38,170 --> 00:22:38,670 metrology 610 00:22:38,970 --> 00:22:40,590 at the National Physical Laboratory 611 00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:41,789 in The UK, 612 00:22:42,650 --> 00:22:45,390 which is the, you know, the the institute 613 00:22:45,609 --> 00:22:48,090 institution in The UK that looks after things 614 00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:51,585 like standards and develops new technologies for measuring 615 00:22:52,444 --> 00:22:54,365 current, and, you know, all those sorts of 616 00:22:54,365 --> 00:22:56,125 things. And it's always a real pleasure to 617 00:22:56,125 --> 00:22:59,025 go to NPL. The physicists who work there 618 00:22:59,085 --> 00:22:59,825 are fantastic. 619 00:23:00,845 --> 00:23:02,444 They, you know, they work on some really 620 00:23:02,444 --> 00:23:04,845 interesting projects, and they're always really happy to 621 00:23:04,845 --> 00:23:05,220 chat. 622 00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:08,039 And, yeah, definitely, quantum metrology 623 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,140 is, is a hot topic there. And it's 624 00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:12,119 interesting that 625 00:23:12,579 --> 00:23:14,179 one of the things that I suppose I 626 00:23:14,179 --> 00:23:15,940 never really thought of before I went to 627 00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:18,119 the conference was this distinction 628 00:23:18,579 --> 00:23:19,079 about 629 00:23:19,634 --> 00:23:20,134 using 630 00:23:21,555 --> 00:23:22,055 quantum 631 00:23:22,674 --> 00:23:23,894 to make better 632 00:23:24,595 --> 00:23:25,095 metrology, 633 00:23:27,795 --> 00:23:28,295 versus 634 00:23:28,835 --> 00:23:29,335 developing 635 00:23:29,954 --> 00:23:30,454 metrology 636 00:23:31,394 --> 00:23:33,255 to make better quantum technologies. 637 00:23:33,849 --> 00:23:36,569 And I suppose a classic example of the 638 00:23:36,569 --> 00:23:37,069 former 639 00:23:37,369 --> 00:23:37,869 is, 640 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:40,970 an atomic clock, where you're using the, you 641 00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:44,329 know, the quantum properties of atoms and of 642 00:23:44,329 --> 00:23:44,829 lasers, 643 00:23:45,769 --> 00:23:46,589 or masers 644 00:23:47,164 --> 00:23:47,664 to, 645 00:23:48,044 --> 00:23:50,224 to to to make a a much better 646 00:23:50,845 --> 00:23:53,404 time standard. And that's a great example of 647 00:23:53,404 --> 00:23:54,304 using quantum 648 00:23:54,605 --> 00:23:55,345 for metrology. 649 00:23:56,924 --> 00:23:57,984 On the other hand, 650 00:23:58,605 --> 00:24:01,664 when you're developing new quantum technologies, 651 00:24:01,964 --> 00:24:02,625 you need 652 00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:03,690 standards, 653 00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:05,190 to, 654 00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:07,850 I suppose work out if those quantum technologies 655 00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:10,470 are are good enough for doing what you 656 00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:12,230 what you want them to do. So for 657 00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:12,730 example, 658 00:24:13,109 --> 00:24:16,230 a quantum computer is based on qubits, and 659 00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:18,964 you need to decide whether these qubits, 660 00:24:20,144 --> 00:24:22,005 remain quantum for long enough 661 00:24:22,305 --> 00:24:23,105 to do your, 662 00:24:24,464 --> 00:24:25,285 your calculation 663 00:24:25,744 --> 00:24:27,984 on the quantum computer. So, you know, you 664 00:24:27,984 --> 00:24:28,644 need to 665 00:24:29,025 --> 00:24:29,924 define standards, 666 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,140 metrology standards for how good a qubit is. 667 00:24:34,519 --> 00:24:36,440 So, you know, there's two ways of looking 668 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,160 at quantum metrology, you know, harnessing the power 669 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,900 of quantum mechanics to make better metrology, 670 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,980 and then actually developing 671 00:24:45,305 --> 00:24:49,005 metrology for new quantum technologies. So, yeah, it's 672 00:24:49,144 --> 00:24:49,644 doubly 673 00:24:50,025 --> 00:24:52,825 exciting, I think. So, yeah, stay tuned for 674 00:24:52,825 --> 00:24:53,325 that. 675 00:24:53,865 --> 00:24:56,265 Yeah. Because it's amazing things like entanglement being 676 00:24:56,265 --> 00:24:58,184 used for practical purposes. You know, I was 677 00:24:58,184 --> 00:24:58,845 at the 678 00:24:59,224 --> 00:25:00,285 Institute of Physics 679 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,960 event at the Royal Institution in London last 680 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,140 month in November, and there was a representative 681 00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:07,099 from the company, 682 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,079 Digistain that makes entangled cam, which is this 683 00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:14,039 piece of equipment using entangled photons for medical 684 00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:14,859 physics purposes. 685 00:25:15,474 --> 00:25:16,914 And, you know, it's incredible to think that 686 00:25:16,914 --> 00:25:18,355 that's happening and that you well, you know, 687 00:25:18,355 --> 00:25:19,954 if there's other companies in the area, how 688 00:25:19,954 --> 00:25:22,274 do you make sure that they're all working 689 00:25:22,274 --> 00:25:23,714 to the same standard and that you could 690 00:25:23,714 --> 00:25:26,274 compare one entangled camera with another? You know, 691 00:25:26,274 --> 00:25:28,115 these are kind of questions that you need 692 00:25:28,115 --> 00:25:30,900 metrology for. You need that system in place. 693 00:25:31,140 --> 00:25:33,460 Like with the kilogram or the second, you 694 00:25:33,460 --> 00:25:35,539 need those systems in place so that we're 695 00:25:35,539 --> 00:25:36,820 all operating to the same, 696 00:25:37,460 --> 00:25:39,940 principles. Oh, definitely. It's a big big deal, 697 00:25:39,940 --> 00:25:41,940 and it's, you know, just that area that 698 00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:44,440 physicists make, you know, contributions to. 699 00:25:44,845 --> 00:25:46,684 And yeah. I mean, I I suppose now, 700 00:25:46,684 --> 00:25:48,924 you know, entanglement is not seen as a 701 00:25:48,924 --> 00:25:51,085 sort of a weird thing. It's seen as 702 00:25:51,085 --> 00:25:53,484 a resource. I mean, that's how how people 703 00:25:53,484 --> 00:25:55,884 describe it these days. Entanglement is a resource 704 00:25:55,884 --> 00:25:57,024 for quantum computing. 705 00:25:57,539 --> 00:25:59,720 And, so, yeah, how do you measure it? 706 00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:00,920 Exactly. 707 00:26:01,220 --> 00:26:03,320 So, yeah, I think I think quantum metrology, 708 00:26:03,539 --> 00:26:06,100 all different flavors of it, will be very 709 00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:08,580 exciting next year. Good. Because you you're organizing 710 00:26:08,580 --> 00:26:09,320 that event. 711 00:26:09,634 --> 00:26:11,315 I'm glad you're enthused about that. Well, you 712 00:26:11,315 --> 00:26:13,555 know, I've I've I've at least I've spoken 713 00:26:13,555 --> 00:26:16,355 to lots of interesting people at NPL about 714 00:26:16,355 --> 00:26:19,075 it. So, yeah, I'm sure it'll be, it'll 715 00:26:19,075 --> 00:26:20,375 be a a great success. 716 00:26:20,755 --> 00:26:22,595 And, I mean, I suppose fusion is the 717 00:26:22,595 --> 00:26:24,595 same way, isn't it, in the sense that, 718 00:26:25,309 --> 00:26:28,049 there's a lot of interest in fusion energy, 719 00:26:28,429 --> 00:26:29,329 a lot of, 720 00:26:29,710 --> 00:26:31,970 companies that are springing up with their own 721 00:26:32,109 --> 00:26:33,970 sort of takes on how to 722 00:26:34,589 --> 00:26:36,929 extract energy from the fusion of 723 00:26:37,309 --> 00:26:37,809 hydrogen 724 00:26:38,269 --> 00:26:38,769 nuclei. 725 00:26:41,365 --> 00:26:42,644 So can you tell us a bit more 726 00:26:42,644 --> 00:26:44,505 about that PW Live? 727 00:26:45,365 --> 00:26:46,884 Well, I mean, if you think of fusion, 728 00:26:46,884 --> 00:26:48,484 you tend to associate it with the big 729 00:26:48,484 --> 00:26:50,965 project like Eat Well, ITER in Southern France. 730 00:26:50,965 --> 00:26:51,845 That's a huge, 731 00:26:52,484 --> 00:26:54,700 machine being built at the moment. But there 732 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:56,539 are a lot of private companies involved in 733 00:26:56,539 --> 00:26:58,299 this area at the moment. So not last 734 00:26:58,299 --> 00:27:00,400 week, I was at the Institute of Physics 735 00:27:00,460 --> 00:27:01,279 business awards 736 00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:04,539 in London at the Houses of Parliament, and 737 00:27:04,539 --> 00:27:06,720 there was somebody from Tokamak Energy 738 00:27:07,244 --> 00:27:09,424 who, they won one of the business awards. 739 00:27:09,565 --> 00:27:11,345 And she was their chief 740 00:27:11,644 --> 00:27:13,805 technology officer and used to work at Rolls 741 00:27:13,805 --> 00:27:16,224 Royce Aerospace in Derby. 742 00:27:16,605 --> 00:27:16,924 And, 743 00:27:17,805 --> 00:27:18,924 you know, she said to me, and I 744 00:27:18,924 --> 00:27:21,345 didn't quite realize this, they have 300 745 00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:23,410 members of staff there including 746 00:27:24,190 --> 00:27:26,750 a 120 people with PhDs. So, you know, 747 00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:29,630 these are, you know, big companies, serious companies 748 00:27:29,630 --> 00:27:31,789 with a lot of effort being put into, 749 00:27:31,789 --> 00:27:33,250 you know, harnessing fusion 750 00:27:33,549 --> 00:27:34,769 as an energy source 751 00:27:35,524 --> 00:27:37,204 and building the magnets and so on and 752 00:27:37,204 --> 00:27:38,644 coming up with designs for how it would 753 00:27:38,644 --> 00:27:41,204 work. So, yeah, that that's, you know, that's 754 00:27:41,204 --> 00:27:42,005 gonna be in the, 755 00:27:43,125 --> 00:27:44,404 towards the end of next year when we 756 00:27:44,404 --> 00:27:46,005 have that Physics World Live. So, yeah, looking 757 00:27:46,005 --> 00:27:48,244 forward to that one. Yeah. That'll be interesting. 758 00:27:48,244 --> 00:27:49,524 I mean, I have to say I'm a, 759 00:27:49,524 --> 00:27:51,420 you know, sort of a slight skeptic 760 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,180 when it comes to fusion. 761 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,119 And, I I often wonder that, 762 00:27:57,079 --> 00:27:58,519 you know, the reason why we have all 763 00:27:58,519 --> 00:27:59,740 these small and medium 764 00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:01,019 sized companies 765 00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:03,980 is that it's turning out to be incredibly 766 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:04,700 expensive 767 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,380 to build a large 768 00:28:06,704 --> 00:28:07,684 fusion facility. 769 00:28:08,224 --> 00:28:09,525 And we sort of think, well, 770 00:28:10,544 --> 00:28:11,684 maybe that's the problem. 771 00:28:12,304 --> 00:28:14,065 It's that we're trying to build a large 772 00:28:14,065 --> 00:28:16,484 one. Maybe we can build a small one. 773 00:28:16,625 --> 00:28:18,625 But I don't I don't know. Is that 774 00:28:18,625 --> 00:28:21,265 backed by physics and engineering? Or is it 775 00:28:21,265 --> 00:28:23,430 just, well, we tried it one way, and 776 00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:24,809 it's taking a long time. 777 00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:26,869 And, you know, we haven't got the results 778 00:28:26,869 --> 00:28:28,630 that we've wanted, so we just try it 779 00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:30,390 another way. I mean, that's fair enough. I 780 00:28:30,390 --> 00:28:32,970 suppose that's a a fairer way to innovate. 781 00:28:33,349 --> 00:28:35,349 But, I mean, there's that notion of there's 782 00:28:35,349 --> 00:28:37,029 that notion that we covered in physics world 783 00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:38,205 this year of unobtanium. 784 00:28:39,065 --> 00:28:40,984 The idea that you set yourself a challenge 785 00:28:40,984 --> 00:28:43,305 knowing it may might not be possible. Yeah. 786 00:28:43,545 --> 00:28:45,325 But, you know, trying to get there 787 00:28:45,705 --> 00:28:48,265 as a target is a useful exercise because 788 00:28:48,265 --> 00:28:50,345 other good things might happen along the way. 789 00:28:50,345 --> 00:28:51,705 And, you know, you hope you achieve it 790 00:28:51,705 --> 00:28:53,529 and if you but if you don't, you 791 00:28:53,529 --> 00:28:55,930 may come up with other breakthroughs or other 792 00:28:55,930 --> 00:28:59,289 developments that are also useful. So unobtanium, I 793 00:28:59,289 --> 00:29:00,730 think, is quite a nice way of putting 794 00:29:00,730 --> 00:29:01,230 it. 795 00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:04,650 Again, the other idea is vaporware, the idea 796 00:29:04,650 --> 00:29:06,515 that something sort of so ethereal that you 797 00:29:06,515 --> 00:29:08,595 you may it may never even happen, but, 798 00:29:08,595 --> 00:29:10,595 you know, still worth pursuing. So, yeah, fusion 799 00:29:10,595 --> 00:29:10,835 is, 800 00:29:11,394 --> 00:29:13,255 you know, exciting times at the moment. 801 00:29:13,794 --> 00:29:16,275 So medical physics, I mean, that's a a 802 00:29:16,275 --> 00:29:17,095 very broad, 803 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:18,460 field. 804 00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:21,019 Has that one been narrowed down, 805 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,400 that PW Live? Or Well, we got a 806 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,240 couple of speakers lined up for this one, 807 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:25,880 which is, 808 00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:29,400 we're running it in July to celebrate the 809 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,180 seventieth anniversary of the journal 810 00:29:31,755 --> 00:29:34,815 Physics in Medicine and Biology, which IOP Publishing 811 00:29:34,954 --> 00:29:35,454 publishes, 812 00:29:35,914 --> 00:29:38,015 on behalf of the Institute of Physics 813 00:29:38,394 --> 00:29:40,255 and Engineering in Medicine, IPEN. 814 00:29:40,795 --> 00:29:43,434 So it's celebrating its seventieth anniversary. So we've 815 00:29:43,434 --> 00:29:46,389 got the current editor in chief and two 816 00:29:46,389 --> 00:29:49,029 former editors editors in chief lined up to 817 00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:52,409 speak about the role of medical physics in, 818 00:29:53,109 --> 00:29:55,589 medicine and biology and how that field has 819 00:29:55,589 --> 00:29:57,795 evolved over the last seventy years. So that's 820 00:29:57,795 --> 00:29:59,394 definitely one to look forward to. And, yeah, 821 00:29:59,394 --> 00:30:00,755 a lot lots going on in that area 822 00:30:00,755 --> 00:30:02,055 as well as we all know, 823 00:30:02,515 --> 00:30:05,075 all sorts of different things. Oh, interesting. Yeah. 824 00:30:05,075 --> 00:30:07,075 I just I I did a podcast interview 825 00:30:07,075 --> 00:30:08,535 today, earlier today. 826 00:30:08,914 --> 00:30:11,075 I've, the microphones have been out all day 827 00:30:11,075 --> 00:30:12,535 today. It's been very busy 828 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,380 with, 829 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:15,440 someone called, 830 00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:18,579 Luke Cox at a company called Impulsonics. 831 00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:20,339 And they're using, 832 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:22,740 ultrasound, 833 00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:26,259 in a medical application that, 834 00:30:26,585 --> 00:30:27,404 you know, it's nothing 835 00:30:27,865 --> 00:30:29,644 to do with ultrasound imaging. 836 00:30:30,025 --> 00:30:32,664 It's using the effect of ultra ultrasound on 837 00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:33,164 cells 838 00:30:33,785 --> 00:30:35,644 to, you know, to 839 00:30:36,825 --> 00:30:39,704 encourage processes that could ultimately be used for 840 00:30:39,704 --> 00:30:41,565 things like personalized medicine. 841 00:30:42,169 --> 00:30:44,250 So, yeah, I mean, things are very exciting 842 00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:46,329 in medical physics. Yeah. Well, we saw the, 843 00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:48,809 physics well, our own top 10 breakthroughs for 844 00:30:48,809 --> 00:30:49,609 2025 845 00:30:49,609 --> 00:30:52,029 that included one of the breakthroughs was on 846 00:30:52,089 --> 00:30:54,809 proton arc therapy. And, of course, proton therapy, 847 00:30:54,809 --> 00:30:56,329 you know, twenty years ago is brand new, 848 00:30:56,329 --> 00:30:57,549 and that's being refined 849 00:30:57,884 --> 00:31:00,684 further and further. So, yeah, lots lots going 850 00:31:00,684 --> 00:31:02,445 on in that field. So, yeah, medical physics 851 00:31:02,445 --> 00:31:03,005 will be the, 852 00:31:03,724 --> 00:31:05,184 physics worldwide in July. 853 00:31:05,644 --> 00:31:08,205 And there's one more thing, I think that 854 00:31:08,205 --> 00:31:10,445 we can preview, Matin, and that is that 855 00:31:10,445 --> 00:31:11,265 our colleague, 856 00:31:12,019 --> 00:31:15,059 Margaret Harris, is going to the Global Physics 857 00:31:15,059 --> 00:31:16,579 Summit, which is the big, 858 00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:18,279 APS shindig. 859 00:31:18,740 --> 00:31:19,720 That's in March, 860 00:31:20,259 --> 00:31:21,559 in Boulder, Colorado. 861 00:31:22,339 --> 00:31:24,819 And she'll be doing a a live event 862 00:31:24,819 --> 00:31:27,544 there. Is that right? That's right. So Margaret 863 00:31:27,605 --> 00:31:30,325 and will be, hosting a Physics Worldwide at 864 00:31:30,325 --> 00:31:33,125 the Global Physics Summit, for people who are 865 00:31:33,125 --> 00:31:35,065 attending that in Denver and Colorado, 866 00:31:35,524 --> 00:31:37,284 which is funny because I went there in 867 00:31:37,284 --> 00:31:38,585 2020 868 00:31:38,804 --> 00:31:41,079 just when the pandemic struck. And I was 869 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:42,200 there with lots of other people, and the 870 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,339 whole meeting was canceled. 871 00:31:43,879 --> 00:31:45,879 And that was a very strange experience. So 872 00:31:45,879 --> 00:31:47,960 we spent a week, six well, it'd be 873 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,099 six years ago now, 874 00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:51,019 you know, in this cavernous 875 00:31:52,904 --> 00:31:55,225 auditorium and conference hall with nothing going on, 876 00:31:55,225 --> 00:31:56,904 and all the companies were sort of packing 877 00:31:56,904 --> 00:31:59,465 their exhibits away. So it's back in Denver 878 00:31:59,465 --> 00:32:01,545 in, in in the spring. So, yeah, that 879 00:32:01,625 --> 00:32:03,384 that's what Margaret will be doing about careers 880 00:32:03,384 --> 00:32:05,519 in physics. And, of course, we know that, 881 00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:07,440 you know, physics degree can open all sorts 882 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,960 of doors, but often there are so many 883 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,559 doors that it can open that people aren't 884 00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:12,980 aware of all the opportunities that are available. 885 00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:14,720 So we'll be looking at some of the 886 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,160 options that you can do, 887 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:18,480 with a degree in physics. So that's another 888 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,160 thing to keep an eye out for next 889 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,234 year. Sounds good. I've I think I've been 890 00:32:22,234 --> 00:32:24,634 to a few APS conferences in Denver. And, 891 00:32:24,634 --> 00:32:25,674 you know, I have to say the best 892 00:32:25,674 --> 00:32:27,615 thing about going to a conference in Denver 893 00:32:27,835 --> 00:32:30,335 is that it's very close to Boulder, Colorado, 894 00:32:30,794 --> 00:32:33,355 which is the headquarters of, an well, not 895 00:32:33,355 --> 00:32:35,294 the headquarters, but one of the big, 896 00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:37,519 sort of outposts of NIST, 897 00:32:37,900 --> 00:32:40,480 the, American Standards Institute, 898 00:32:40,940 --> 00:32:43,900 which, like NBL, is a fantastic place to 899 00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:47,179 visit. Lots of amazing physicists there doing some 900 00:32:47,179 --> 00:32:50,644 incredible work. So, who knows? Maybe Margaret will, 901 00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:52,725 be able to visit the folks at NIST 902 00:32:52,725 --> 00:32:53,305 as well. 903 00:32:53,684 --> 00:32:55,365 Yeah. That's where I mean, I know in 904 00:32:55,365 --> 00:32:56,884 in Boulder, they do a lot of on 905 00:32:56,884 --> 00:32:59,365 the the atomic clock work is done there. 906 00:32:59,365 --> 00:33:00,005 So that's, 907 00:33:00,325 --> 00:33:00,750 great. 908 00:33:01,230 --> 00:33:02,670 The other thing to mention, Hamish, that I 909 00:33:02,670 --> 00:33:04,430 should also add in is that our colleagues 910 00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:06,509 at the Institute of Physics in London are 911 00:33:06,509 --> 00:33:07,009 doing, 912 00:33:07,869 --> 00:33:09,410 more of their impact projects. 913 00:33:09,869 --> 00:33:12,029 These are the sort of in-depth reports looking 914 00:33:12,029 --> 00:33:15,164 at important tech technology areas. So they're doing 915 00:33:15,164 --> 00:33:16,224 more work on, 916 00:33:16,845 --> 00:33:17,345 artificial 917 00:33:17,964 --> 00:33:18,464 intelligence, 918 00:33:19,085 --> 00:33:20,845 and they're also starting a new impact project 919 00:33:20,845 --> 00:33:22,684 on medical physics, which ties in with what 920 00:33:22,684 --> 00:33:24,865 we were saying about medical physics being important. 921 00:33:25,085 --> 00:33:28,204 So those three areas, AI, metamaterials, and medical 922 00:33:28,204 --> 00:33:30,140 physics, the Institute of Physics will be looking 923 00:33:30,140 --> 00:33:32,539 at with their impact reports, which are we've 924 00:33:32,539 --> 00:33:33,259 done ones, 925 00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:36,619 previously on quantum physics and the green economy. 926 00:33:36,619 --> 00:33:38,380 So those are sort of three areas that 927 00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:40,559 are, you know, also hot topics. 928 00:33:40,934 --> 00:33:42,214 Like I say with physics, I said to 929 00:33:42,214 --> 00:33:43,575 you a few minutes ago, Amish, you never 930 00:33:43,575 --> 00:33:45,654 can quite predict exactly what will happen, and 931 00:33:45,654 --> 00:33:47,575 so I'm not going to. But I think 932 00:33:47,575 --> 00:33:49,494 these areas that I've talked about, we've talked 933 00:33:49,494 --> 00:33:51,654 about, kinda give a sense of, you know, 934 00:33:51,654 --> 00:33:53,734 where the where the hot topics are in 935 00:33:53,734 --> 00:33:55,335 in physics right now as far as we're 936 00:33:55,335 --> 00:33:55,835 concerned. 937 00:33:56,190 --> 00:33:58,829 So, yeah, lots to look forward to, in 938 00:33:58,829 --> 00:33:59,970 2026. 939 00:34:00,509 --> 00:34:02,349 I'm afraid that's all the time we have 940 00:34:02,349 --> 00:34:05,329 for this episode, which is supported by reports 941 00:34:05,470 --> 00:34:07,250 on progress in physics. 942 00:34:08,045 --> 00:34:11,025 Thanks to Gong Yoo Zhong and Matin Dharani 943 00:34:11,164 --> 00:34:12,545 for joining me today, 944 00:34:12,844 --> 00:34:15,105 and a special thanks to our producer, 945 00:34:15,405 --> 00:34:16,385 Fred Iles.