1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,119 Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Weekly 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,059 podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston. 3 00:00:13,724 --> 00:00:16,625 This week, I'm in conversation with Tim Shea 4 00:00:16,844 --> 00:00:18,785 of Canada's Perimeter Institute 5 00:00:19,164 --> 00:00:20,704 for Theoretical Physics. 6 00:00:21,244 --> 00:00:24,285 We explore some of the hottest topics in 7 00:00:24,285 --> 00:00:25,824 quantum science and technology, 8 00:00:26,605 --> 00:00:27,105 including 9 00:00:27,484 --> 00:00:28,544 emergent phenomena, 10 00:00:29,350 --> 00:00:30,570 quantum error correction, 11 00:00:30,870 --> 00:00:32,250 and quantum simulation. 12 00:00:33,510 --> 00:00:36,409 This episode is supported by the APS 13 00:00:37,030 --> 00:00:38,649 Global Physics Summit, 14 00:00:39,030 --> 00:00:42,967 which takes place on March 15 00:00:42,967 --> 00:00:45,304 2026 16 00:00:45,765 --> 00:00:47,304 in Denver, Colorado 17 00:00:47,844 --> 00:00:48,984 and online. 18 00:00:49,765 --> 00:00:52,664 At the largest physics meeting in the world, 19 00:00:52,885 --> 00:00:54,984 you can join thousands of physicists, 20 00:00:55,630 --> 00:00:59,070 students, and policy leaders for a week of 21 00:00:59,070 --> 00:01:00,609 connection and collaboration. 22 00:01:01,789 --> 00:01:05,390 Immerse yourself in the cutting edge science that's 23 00:01:05,390 --> 00:01:07,409 shaping our shared future, 24 00:01:07,855 --> 00:01:10,915 and be part of the global physics community 25 00:01:11,534 --> 00:01:12,754 driving innovation 26 00:01:13,055 --> 00:01:13,555 forward. 27 00:01:14,254 --> 00:01:19,234 Explore the meeting at summit.aps.org. 28 00:01:20,579 --> 00:01:23,219 Earlier this autumn, I had the pleasure of 29 00:01:23,219 --> 00:01:25,079 visiting the Perimeter Institute 30 00:01:25,620 --> 00:01:27,799 where I interviewed four physicists 31 00:01:28,260 --> 00:01:29,400 about their research. 32 00:01:30,099 --> 00:01:32,359 This is the third of those conversations 33 00:01:32,900 --> 00:01:34,439 to appear on the podcast, 34 00:01:35,094 --> 00:01:36,715 And it's with Tim Hsieh, 35 00:01:37,094 --> 00:01:40,075 whose research focuses on quantum information 36 00:01:40,614 --> 00:01:42,075 and quantum matter. 37 00:01:42,534 --> 00:01:43,674 Here's that conversation. 38 00:01:52,829 --> 00:01:56,450 I'm at the Peruner Institute in Waterloo, Ontario, 39 00:01:56,750 --> 00:01:59,069 and I'm very pleased to be joined by 40 00:01:59,069 --> 00:01:59,969 Tim Shea. 41 00:02:00,349 --> 00:02:02,129 Hi, Tim. Welcome to the podcast. 42 00:02:02,509 --> 00:02:05,069 Thanks a lot, Himesh. Thanks for, being here 43 00:02:05,069 --> 00:02:07,354 visiting with us. So Tim, we're gonna talk 44 00:02:07,354 --> 00:02:09,294 about quantum matter, 45 00:02:09,754 --> 00:02:11,354 and I think we need to we need 46 00:02:11,354 --> 00:02:12,655 a definition here. 47 00:02:13,194 --> 00:02:16,495 I mean, aren't most, if not all material 48 00:02:16,715 --> 00:02:17,215 properties 49 00:02:17,834 --> 00:02:18,334 defined 50 00:02:18,790 --> 00:02:22,069 by quantum mechanics. So what is quantum matter 51 00:02:22,069 --> 00:02:22,969 as opposed to 52 00:02:23,349 --> 00:02:24,889 just matter that's 53 00:02:25,189 --> 00:02:27,750 defined by quantum mechanics? Yeah. That's a that's 54 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:29,990 a great question. So it it's true that, 55 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:32,824 you know, everything is dictated by the laws 56 00:02:32,824 --> 00:02:35,064 of quantum mechanics, but it turns out that 57 00:02:35,064 --> 00:02:36,205 in certain materials, 58 00:02:37,544 --> 00:02:38,844 the really counterintuitive 59 00:02:39,384 --> 00:02:40,844 laws of quantum mechanics, 60 00:02:41,864 --> 00:02:44,504 play a much bigger role than in other 61 00:02:44,504 --> 00:02:46,800 materials, which look more classical. 62 00:02:47,259 --> 00:02:48,639 Right? Like, so for example, 63 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:52,719 you know, given our phones, our our computers, 64 00:02:53,819 --> 00:02:56,620 you know, we have a deep appreciation of, 65 00:02:57,340 --> 00:02:57,840 semiconductor 66 00:02:58,139 --> 00:02:59,840 chips, right, like silicon, 67 00:03:00,699 --> 00:03:01,919 things like that. Right? 68 00:03:02,414 --> 00:03:03,074 And these, 69 00:03:03,694 --> 00:03:05,555 you know, for for these these, 70 00:03:06,254 --> 00:03:07,235 very useful materials, 71 00:03:08,334 --> 00:03:11,854 quantum mechanics already plays some role. Right? Like, 72 00:03:11,854 --> 00:03:14,754 the the the power exclusion principle, for example, 73 00:03:15,250 --> 00:03:15,750 is, 74 00:03:17,009 --> 00:03:19,330 really important. Right? We wouldn't be here if 75 00:03:19,330 --> 00:03:21,169 it wasn't for the Pauli exclusion principle. Yeah. 76 00:03:21,169 --> 00:03:22,469 Yeah. Ex exactly. 77 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:25,090 And and so, you know, in in coming 78 00:03:25,090 --> 00:03:25,409 up with, 79 00:03:26,209 --> 00:03:28,629 a theory of, band gaps in semiconductors, 80 00:03:28,930 --> 00:03:29,669 for example, 81 00:03:31,305 --> 00:03:33,544 we already need quantum mechanics. But this is 82 00:03:33,544 --> 00:03:36,425 more quantum mechanics at, at a single particle 83 00:03:36,425 --> 00:03:36,925 level. 84 00:03:37,224 --> 00:03:39,064 Right? We're basically dealing with, 85 00:03:39,625 --> 00:03:40,444 you know, how, 86 00:03:40,825 --> 00:03:43,465 a single electron moves in in a whole 87 00:03:43,465 --> 00:03:44,525 crystal array. 88 00:03:44,879 --> 00:03:47,680 And, by analyzing that, we can already, you 89 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,060 know, derive a lot of 90 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,419 the, useful properties of of semiconductors, for example. 91 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:55,439 Okay. So that's, like, that's kinda like level 92 00:03:55,439 --> 00:03:56,819 one quantum materials. 93 00:03:57,759 --> 00:03:59,199 But then it turns out that there are 94 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:00,340 even more exotic, 95 00:04:00,775 --> 00:04:03,594 like, higher level quantum materials where, 96 00:04:04,215 --> 00:04:06,075 quantum mechanics plays a much 97 00:04:06,694 --> 00:04:08,635 deeper and complex role. 98 00:04:09,014 --> 00:04:10,855 So some of which we haven't even completely 99 00:04:10,855 --> 00:04:11,355 understood. 100 00:04:11,895 --> 00:04:13,974 Right? And and that's because, for these, you 101 00:04:13,974 --> 00:04:15,675 know, more exotic quantum materials, 102 00:04:16,620 --> 00:04:18,720 we're not dealing with a a single particle 103 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:20,699 moving into crystal. We're dealing with, like, a 104 00:04:20,699 --> 00:04:22,479 whole collection of interacting 105 00:04:23,019 --> 00:04:23,519 electrons 106 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:26,560 or or spins, magnetic moments. 107 00:04:27,019 --> 00:04:27,839 And so now, 108 00:04:28,539 --> 00:04:29,519 you know, we have 109 00:04:29,979 --> 00:04:31,915 a a a many body problem in which 110 00:04:31,915 --> 00:04:33,355 we have to apply the laws of quantum 111 00:04:33,355 --> 00:04:34,334 mechanics are. 112 00:04:34,955 --> 00:04:36,235 We have to apply the laws of quantum 113 00:04:36,235 --> 00:04:36,735 mechanics. 114 00:04:37,115 --> 00:04:38,634 And so that that can give rise to 115 00:04:38,634 --> 00:04:39,435 a lot of new, 116 00:04:40,074 --> 00:04:40,574 emergent 117 00:04:41,115 --> 00:04:43,595 phenomena that we didn't expect at the single 118 00:04:43,595 --> 00:04:44,495 particle level. 119 00:04:44,819 --> 00:04:47,139 Right? And so one one example is, for 120 00:04:47,139 --> 00:04:48,039 example, superconductivity, 121 00:04:48,899 --> 00:04:49,779 right, or, 122 00:04:50,339 --> 00:04:52,519 our what what we call quantum spin liquids. 123 00:04:54,019 --> 00:04:55,620 These are where we really have to deal 124 00:04:55,620 --> 00:04:57,860 with the the whole system, like, you know, 125 00:04:57,860 --> 00:04:59,639 10 to the 23 or more, 126 00:05:00,214 --> 00:05:02,235 electrons degrees of freedom interacting. 127 00:05:02,855 --> 00:05:05,274 Right? So so these, I would say, are, 128 00:05:05,814 --> 00:05:07,355 much of the focus of modern, 129 00:05:08,055 --> 00:05:09,274 quantum matter research. 130 00:05:09,735 --> 00:05:11,915 And I I wanted to ask you about 131 00:05:12,294 --> 00:05:12,794 emergent 132 00:05:13,449 --> 00:05:15,550 phenomena. I think it was it Philip Anderson 133 00:05:15,610 --> 00:05:18,329 who said more is different Right. Right. In 134 00:05:18,329 --> 00:05:19,849 the sense that when you when you have 135 00:05:19,849 --> 00:05:21,470 lots of things interacting 136 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:24,750 Mhmm. You can have very strange well, 137 00:05:25,754 --> 00:05:27,915 structures pop out of it. Right. Right. And, 138 00:05:27,915 --> 00:05:30,074 you know, I suppose these are it's not 139 00:05:30,074 --> 00:05:31,754 just in the quantum world. You know, if 140 00:05:31,754 --> 00:05:33,514 you go to a beach, for example, you'll 141 00:05:33,514 --> 00:05:35,915 see lovely ripples in the sand. Mhmm. Things 142 00:05:35,915 --> 00:05:37,675 like that. So we're we're sort of used 143 00:05:37,675 --> 00:05:38,175 to, 144 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:41,639 collections of small things 145 00:05:41,939 --> 00:05:46,019 organizing themselves into big patterns. Right. But how, 146 00:05:47,220 --> 00:05:49,060 how does this work in in the quantum 147 00:05:49,060 --> 00:05:51,139 world? Yeah. Yes. You gave a few examples. 148 00:05:51,139 --> 00:05:53,055 Can you maybe give a a few more? 149 00:05:53,055 --> 00:05:54,975 Sure. Sure. Yeah. So in in indeed, it's 150 00:05:54,975 --> 00:05:57,314 true that even in, you know, macroscopic 151 00:05:57,694 --> 00:06:01,235 classical systems, you know, without any, you know, 152 00:06:01,855 --> 00:06:05,214 quantum mechanics necessary, there's already immersion phenomena, like 153 00:06:05,214 --> 00:06:06,355 like the type you described. 154 00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:09,319 For for large or, you know, macroscopic 155 00:06:10,420 --> 00:06:13,300 quantum systems, you can have even more interesting 156 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:13,800 phenomena. 157 00:06:14,819 --> 00:06:17,319 One of my favorites is, something called 158 00:06:17,699 --> 00:06:19,160 the topological order. 159 00:06:19,939 --> 00:06:21,060 And that that's when, 160 00:06:21,694 --> 00:06:22,754 you know, you can have 161 00:06:23,134 --> 00:06:25,314 systems of, you know, individual, 162 00:06:26,254 --> 00:06:26,754 bosonic 163 00:06:27,134 --> 00:06:28,595 degrees of freedom. Right? 164 00:06:29,214 --> 00:06:30,754 But whose whose interaction 165 00:06:31,535 --> 00:06:33,535 give rise to some state in which you 166 00:06:33,535 --> 00:06:34,914 have immersion fermion 167 00:06:35,214 --> 00:06:35,714 particles, 168 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,439 coming out. Oh, really? That's that's really interesting. 169 00:06:40,439 --> 00:06:41,420 So the the 170 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,199 how can bosons team up to make a 171 00:06:44,199 --> 00:06:46,540 fermion? Yeah. Yeah. So I could see fermions 172 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,520 teaming up to make a boson, but Right. 173 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,444 Right. Right. The opposite seems a bit odd. 174 00:06:50,524 --> 00:06:52,305 It's it's it's pretty amazing. Like, 175 00:06:53,004 --> 00:06:54,404 one way to think of this is that, 176 00:06:54,404 --> 00:06:56,845 you know, you can you can imagine the 177 00:06:56,845 --> 00:06:57,345 individual 178 00:06:58,205 --> 00:06:59,585 constituents of the system 179 00:07:00,125 --> 00:07:02,925 as being composed of even smaller degrees of 180 00:07:02,925 --> 00:07:03,425 freedom. 181 00:07:03,730 --> 00:07:06,050 Right? So so in in in, you know, 182 00:07:06,050 --> 00:07:08,930 fundamental particle physics, there's there's this old idea 183 00:07:08,930 --> 00:07:11,569 of, partons. Right? Like, our our, 184 00:07:12,129 --> 00:07:14,050 you know, our protons, our neutrons are made 185 00:07:14,050 --> 00:07:15,910 out of smaller particles called quarks. 186 00:07:16,334 --> 00:07:16,834 Right? 187 00:07:17,214 --> 00:07:18,514 So it turns out to be 188 00:07:18,894 --> 00:07:20,654 somewhat valuable in thinking in terms of that 189 00:07:20,654 --> 00:07:24,014 perspective even for, like, you know, these these 190 00:07:24,014 --> 00:07:26,254 tabletop systems or materials. So you you can 191 00:07:26,254 --> 00:07:29,394 imagine your individual constituents consist of smaller 192 00:07:29,830 --> 00:07:31,350 degrees of freedom. Like, you can imagine a 193 00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:34,389 boson that's composed of two fermions bound together. 194 00:07:34,389 --> 00:07:34,889 Right? 195 00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:36,970 And for, 196 00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:39,050 you know, what I call trivial 197 00:07:39,670 --> 00:07:41,910 phases of matter, you can imagine that these 198 00:07:41,910 --> 00:07:45,205 these these, you know, imaginary fermions are, like, 199 00:07:45,205 --> 00:07:48,004 bound together tightly, and each boson is doing 200 00:07:48,004 --> 00:07:49,685 its own thing. So you never really see 201 00:07:49,685 --> 00:07:51,785 the fermions by themselves. Right? 202 00:07:52,085 --> 00:07:54,725 But you could imagine the possibility that these 203 00:07:54,725 --> 00:07:55,225 bosons, 204 00:07:56,165 --> 00:07:57,605 each of which have, like, a pair of 205 00:07:57,605 --> 00:07:58,585 bound fermions, 206 00:07:58,939 --> 00:08:01,919 are interacting so much that these bound fermions 207 00:08:01,979 --> 00:08:02,879 become deconfined. 208 00:08:03,740 --> 00:08:05,579 Right? It's just like how in again, 209 00:08:06,060 --> 00:08:07,680 using a particle physics analogy, 210 00:08:08,060 --> 00:08:11,180 if you have, like, protons and neutrons, like, 211 00:08:11,180 --> 00:08:12,719 high enough temperature or pressure, 212 00:08:13,185 --> 00:08:15,105 in principle, you could have quarks that are 213 00:08:15,105 --> 00:08:15,605 deconfied. 214 00:08:15,985 --> 00:08:18,404 And you you could see the individual constituents 215 00:08:18,865 --> 00:08:21,365 in in a very, you know, extreme setting. 216 00:08:21,904 --> 00:08:24,324 Right? Here, it's like the the strong interactions 217 00:08:24,785 --> 00:08:25,285 between, 218 00:08:25,824 --> 00:08:27,045 in this case, like bosons, 219 00:08:27,949 --> 00:08:29,810 that lead to the deconfident 220 00:08:30,350 --> 00:08:31,410 of this imaginary 221 00:08:31,870 --> 00:08:34,110 constituent of this fermion. And this is how 222 00:08:34,110 --> 00:08:36,670 this fermion becomes, like, unbound due to strong 223 00:08:36,670 --> 00:08:37,170 interactions 224 00:08:37,710 --> 00:08:39,649 of many collective degrees of freedom. 225 00:08:40,485 --> 00:08:43,045 And and some of these emergent phenomena, they're 226 00:08:43,045 --> 00:08:44,904 not I mean, it's not just a theoretical 227 00:08:45,205 --> 00:08:46,665 curiosity, is it? Right. 228 00:08:47,045 --> 00:08:48,485 Right. Right. Yeah. You you know, you mentioned 229 00:08:48,485 --> 00:08:48,985 topological 230 00:08:49,365 --> 00:08:51,605 Yeah. That's definitely not. So useful for computing, 231 00:08:51,605 --> 00:08:53,125 couldn't you? Yeah. So this this has, you 232 00:08:53,125 --> 00:08:55,304 know, gone all the way back until the, 233 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,139 the the nineteen eighties. So, 234 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:00,519 there there's a system called the the fractional 235 00:09:00,519 --> 00:09:03,320 quantum hall effect, right, which basically is like 236 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,480 a two d electron gas in a very 237 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,865 high magnetic field at low temperature. And 238 00:09:08,325 --> 00:09:11,625 and here, there there's already this phenomenon of, 239 00:09:12,325 --> 00:09:13,304 this fractionalization 240 00:09:13,845 --> 00:09:17,304 of individual particles into some smaller constituents. 241 00:09:17,924 --> 00:09:19,684 So one of the simplest example is, like, 242 00:09:19,684 --> 00:09:21,605 you have these this this two d electron 243 00:09:21,605 --> 00:09:24,149 system. You know, it's built out of electrons, 244 00:09:24,209 --> 00:09:26,629 but, again, due to strong interactions, 245 00:09:27,809 --> 00:09:28,709 you have fractionalization 246 00:09:29,089 --> 00:09:29,589 into, 247 00:09:30,529 --> 00:09:33,089 pieces of electron. For example, a third of 248 00:09:33,089 --> 00:09:35,809 the electron charge with with a third of 249 00:09:35,809 --> 00:09:36,105 its, 250 00:09:36,745 --> 00:09:39,304 particle statistics in some sense. And so, yeah, 251 00:09:39,304 --> 00:09:41,464 these these fractional quantum ball systems have been, 252 00:09:41,784 --> 00:09:42,684 seen experimentally, 253 00:09:43,784 --> 00:09:46,184 since since the eighties. So these systems, you 254 00:09:46,184 --> 00:09:47,964 know, remarkably exist. And, 255 00:09:49,279 --> 00:09:51,120 yeah, that that that's what makes this phenomenon, 256 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,080 of course, even more, interesting and relevant. And 257 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,759 and and it can be useful as well 258 00:09:55,759 --> 00:09:57,620 because I think, you know, for example, topological 259 00:09:57,919 --> 00:09:58,419 properties, 260 00:09:59,919 --> 00:10:03,345 perhaps resistant to noise, and that could be 261 00:10:03,345 --> 00:10:05,424 handy when you're trying to build a quantum 262 00:10:05,584 --> 00:10:08,725 Exactly. Exactly. So exactly. One one approach toward 263 00:10:09,345 --> 00:10:12,725 encoding this, you know, very fragile quantum information 264 00:10:12,945 --> 00:10:15,605 is to encode the information into 265 00:10:16,009 --> 00:10:16,669 the fractionalized 266 00:10:17,129 --> 00:10:19,610 pieces of the individual degrees of freedom. Right? 267 00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:20,730 So so if you if you didn't have 268 00:10:20,730 --> 00:10:23,549 fractionalization, if you just have information encoded directly 269 00:10:23,929 --> 00:10:25,149 at the physical level, 270 00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:26,909 then, you know, the that physical 271 00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:29,389 that physical degree of freedom can be corrupted 272 00:10:29,450 --> 00:10:31,664 easily by some some noise. But if you 273 00:10:31,664 --> 00:10:34,384 encode it non locally in in terms of, 274 00:10:34,865 --> 00:10:36,784 you know, fractions of the original degrees of 275 00:10:36,784 --> 00:10:38,644 freedom that are separated in space, 276 00:10:39,264 --> 00:10:42,144 then it's much less likely that some noise 277 00:10:42,144 --> 00:10:42,644 event 278 00:10:43,105 --> 00:10:45,745 will collectively corrupt all three and lead to 279 00:10:45,745 --> 00:10:48,459 a logical error. Right? So this this nonlocal 280 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,339 encoding of of information is more, 281 00:10:51,799 --> 00:10:53,500 robust, and this is why, 282 00:10:54,199 --> 00:10:56,039 you know, we have this pretty promising approach 283 00:10:56,039 --> 00:11:00,139 of topological computation using these fractional oxide fractionalized 284 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:00,860 excitations, 285 00:11:01,915 --> 00:11:02,975 to do computation. 286 00:11:03,835 --> 00:11:05,995 And, Tim, I wanted to move on to, 287 00:11:06,634 --> 00:11:07,695 quantum computers. 288 00:11:08,075 --> 00:11:09,754 Mhmm. I mean, I suppose you could think 289 00:11:09,754 --> 00:11:11,855 of a quantum computer as essentially 290 00:11:12,475 --> 00:11:15,690 a piece of quantum matter that physicists can 291 00:11:15,690 --> 00:11:17,149 control very precisely. 292 00:11:18,009 --> 00:11:20,029 Mhmm. If we were able to create 293 00:11:20,409 --> 00:11:23,449 large scale quantum computers, let's say using those 294 00:11:23,449 --> 00:11:23,949 topological 295 00:11:24,250 --> 00:11:25,049 qubits Mhmm. 296 00:11:25,690 --> 00:11:26,909 What sort of emergent 297 00:11:27,289 --> 00:11:29,485 phenomena do you think we could see? Or 298 00:11:29,485 --> 00:11:31,245 or maybe we don't know and we'll have 299 00:11:31,245 --> 00:11:31,825 to wait. 300 00:11:32,285 --> 00:11:34,384 Yeah. Exactly. I think I think this is, 301 00:11:35,245 --> 00:11:37,024 at least for me, the most 302 00:11:37,565 --> 00:11:38,065 exciting 303 00:11:38,684 --> 00:11:41,425 thing would be to, you know, see some 304 00:11:41,980 --> 00:11:44,299 phenomenon that we don't know yet how to 305 00:11:44,299 --> 00:11:46,059 understand. Right? I think that that's always the 306 00:11:46,059 --> 00:11:47,519 most exciting mode 307 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:50,320 of of physics being done. Right? 308 00:11:50,779 --> 00:11:52,220 This for example, this is what happened for 309 00:11:52,220 --> 00:11:54,700 the the factional quantum hall effect. Right? Like, 310 00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:56,080 like, there was no prediction 311 00:11:56,475 --> 00:11:58,495 of this very interesting phenomenon beforehand. 312 00:11:58,954 --> 00:12:00,634 And so that, I think, is also true 313 00:12:00,634 --> 00:12:01,034 for this, 314 00:12:02,634 --> 00:12:03,294 you know, 315 00:12:03,914 --> 00:12:06,154 for for the quantum computers being developed right 316 00:12:06,154 --> 00:12:07,674 now. You you can think of it as 317 00:12:07,674 --> 00:12:08,975 kind of probing a new 318 00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:12,090 probing a new extreme, 319 00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:14,570 of, complexity 320 00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:16,730 access. Right? So, 321 00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:20,470 as you probably know, like, a lot of 322 00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:22,105 the the big breakthroughs, 323 00:12:22,565 --> 00:12:25,625 you know, in seeing new phenomenon from experiments 324 00:12:25,764 --> 00:12:28,904 leading to new theories has come from probing, 325 00:12:29,845 --> 00:12:30,424 in a extreme, 326 00:12:32,004 --> 00:12:33,625 point in some parameter. 327 00:12:34,259 --> 00:12:35,240 Right? Like, superconductivity, 328 00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:37,399 we're cooling down to very low temperature. 329 00:12:37,860 --> 00:12:40,100 Right? For pressure quantum ball, it's like reducing 330 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:40,600 dimensionality 331 00:12:41,460 --> 00:12:43,379 to, you know, like, a two d plane 332 00:12:43,379 --> 00:12:46,179 applying a really high magnetic field. Right? And 333 00:12:46,179 --> 00:12:48,100 so this, you know, this this, 334 00:12:49,514 --> 00:12:51,934 development of quantum computing is, like, probing, 335 00:12:52,875 --> 00:12:53,375 this 336 00:12:53,834 --> 00:12:55,934 new access of, like, quantum coherence. 337 00:12:56,875 --> 00:13:00,315 Right? Of, like, basically, how how big of 338 00:13:00,315 --> 00:13:01,834 a system can we have, 339 00:13:02,554 --> 00:13:04,830 you know, superposition of states. 340 00:13:05,309 --> 00:13:06,830 And right? So it's this it's this new 341 00:13:06,830 --> 00:13:08,690 regime of, like, quantum complexity 342 00:13:09,389 --> 00:13:12,450 that's being now, you know, newly available. 343 00:13:13,070 --> 00:13:14,129 Right? And, 344 00:13:15,149 --> 00:13:17,149 and, yeah, again, to be I think it'd 345 00:13:17,149 --> 00:13:19,274 be the most exciting if we see, you 346 00:13:19,274 --> 00:13:21,454 know, some new phenomena that might suggest 347 00:13:21,914 --> 00:13:23,674 even, like, a, like, a breakdown in the 348 00:13:23,674 --> 00:13:26,954 current laws upon mechanics. Right? Yeah. Now that'll 349 00:13:26,954 --> 00:13:28,954 be obviously very, you know like, we we 350 00:13:28,954 --> 00:13:30,735 we don't expect it right now, but, 351 00:13:31,309 --> 00:13:32,909 that would be, I think, the most exciting 352 00:13:32,909 --> 00:13:35,230 thing. Yeah. I mean, that is a that 353 00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:37,389 is an interesting thing, isn't it? An idea 354 00:13:37,389 --> 00:13:38,129 that's emerged, 355 00:13:38,669 --> 00:13:40,990 you know, sorry about the pun, over the 356 00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:43,629 last little while is that you, you know, 357 00:13:43,629 --> 00:13:46,029 you could see that crack in in the 358 00:13:46,029 --> 00:13:47,009 standard model. 359 00:13:47,495 --> 00:13:49,334 Right. That's right. In a in a quantum 360 00:13:49,334 --> 00:13:50,955 computer rather than smashing 361 00:13:51,414 --> 00:13:53,815 particles together. You know, you could get your 362 00:13:53,815 --> 00:13:54,934 first glimpse of, 363 00:13:56,134 --> 00:13:58,534 of physics beyond what we know. That's right. 364 00:13:58,534 --> 00:14:01,529 That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. So for 365 00:14:01,529 --> 00:14:03,690 for, I guess, beyond the center model, there 366 00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:04,590 were kind of, 367 00:14:06,090 --> 00:14:08,190 we're kind of looking at this, like, reductionist 368 00:14:08,809 --> 00:14:11,850 paradigm, right, where, you know, we have, like, 369 00:14:11,850 --> 00:14:14,410 you know, basic degrees of freedom that and 370 00:14:14,410 --> 00:14:16,855 and their laws, and we're trying to see 371 00:14:16,855 --> 00:14:18,695 what the complete description of those basic degrees 372 00:14:18,695 --> 00:14:20,615 of freedom. But but in this in this 373 00:14:20,615 --> 00:14:22,455 other axis of, like, you know, building a 374 00:14:22,455 --> 00:14:23,434 a big controllable 375 00:14:24,054 --> 00:14:24,955 quantum computer, 376 00:14:25,495 --> 00:14:27,815 right, it's like more of like a I 377 00:14:27,815 --> 00:14:29,735 don't know. The opposite of reduction is, like, 378 00:14:29,735 --> 00:14:30,235 constructionist 379 00:14:31,559 --> 00:14:33,899 philosophy. Again, this philosophy of of emergence, 380 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,399 you know, coming from basic degrees of freedom, 381 00:14:37,399 --> 00:14:38,539 which we already understand, 382 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,419 you know, what laws are describing them, but 383 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:43,960 together, they lead to these emergent laws that 384 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:44,715 that we don't, 385 00:14:45,274 --> 00:14:46,654 really know about. Right? 386 00:14:47,675 --> 00:14:50,875 So so we've chatted a bit about quantum 387 00:14:50,875 --> 00:14:52,975 computers, and I know that that's one 388 00:14:53,595 --> 00:14:55,434 interest that you have in terms of your 389 00:14:55,434 --> 00:14:55,934 research. 390 00:14:56,555 --> 00:14:59,370 Where are we at the moment with quantum 391 00:14:59,370 --> 00:15:02,090 computers? What what are the challenges facing people 392 00:15:02,090 --> 00:15:04,090 who are trying to develop them at the 393 00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:06,809 moment? Is it this this coherence problem dealing 394 00:15:06,809 --> 00:15:09,529 with the noise that Yeah. Destroys your quantum 395 00:15:09,529 --> 00:15:11,210 state? That's right. So that that that is 396 00:15:11,210 --> 00:15:13,975 the biggest challenge because, you know, quantum information 397 00:15:13,975 --> 00:15:17,355 is even more fragile than, classical information. 398 00:15:17,735 --> 00:15:20,075 Right? Because quantum information, you have to 399 00:15:20,695 --> 00:15:21,915 worry about noise, 400 00:15:22,615 --> 00:15:25,089 pretty much in along different axes. Right? So 401 00:15:25,089 --> 00:15:27,089 in in in the classical world, you only 402 00:15:27,089 --> 00:15:28,149 have one basis. 403 00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:30,230 Right? Like, one zero, 404 00:15:30,610 --> 00:15:32,210 up or down. And if you worry about 405 00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:35,190 noise, like flipping bits in that one basis. 406 00:15:35,730 --> 00:15:36,230 But, 407 00:15:37,169 --> 00:15:38,769 as you probably know, you know, a a 408 00:15:38,769 --> 00:15:39,830 qubit is, 409 00:15:40,394 --> 00:15:41,834 in some sense, almost like a like a 410 00:15:41,834 --> 00:15:44,254 continuous space. Right? You can have arbitrary superpositions 411 00:15:44,475 --> 00:15:45,995 of zero and one, and so you could 412 00:15:45,995 --> 00:15:48,894 have noise acting along all these different directions, 413 00:15:49,274 --> 00:15:50,975 along the block sphere. Right? 414 00:15:51,595 --> 00:15:53,274 And so, you have to work a lot 415 00:15:53,274 --> 00:15:54,240 harder to protect 416 00:15:54,559 --> 00:15:57,139 any quantum information that you've you've encoded. 417 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,259 But but that said, there's been remarkable 418 00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:03,839 experimental progress in in, a whole variety of 419 00:16:03,839 --> 00:16:06,899 approaches for quantum computing, like trapped ions, superconducting 420 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:07,605 qubits, 421 00:16:08,164 --> 00:16:09,625 red brick arrays, for example. 422 00:16:10,644 --> 00:16:12,164 And and so I think it's it's really 423 00:16:12,164 --> 00:16:14,725 exciting time where, you know, people are scaling 424 00:16:14,725 --> 00:16:18,264 up, their quantum simulators in computers. The controllability 425 00:16:18,485 --> 00:16:20,824 is improving. Their gate fidelities are improving. 426 00:16:21,159 --> 00:16:22,620 And so now this is really, 427 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,460 like a new playground for for theorists 428 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,259 to, at this point, you know, predict, 429 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,679 new types of phases, for example, that can 430 00:16:32,679 --> 00:16:33,820 emerge in these systems, 431 00:16:34,445 --> 00:16:35,345 things like that. 432 00:16:36,205 --> 00:16:38,284 And, Tim, am I right that you you 433 00:16:38,284 --> 00:16:41,245 work on some quantum error correction? Is that 434 00:16:41,245 --> 00:16:43,565 right? Yeah. So, yeah. I I've been Now 435 00:16:43,565 --> 00:16:45,164 can you talk a bit about that? Because 436 00:16:45,164 --> 00:16:47,004 that, I mean, you know, as well as 437 00:16:47,004 --> 00:16:49,370 improving the fidelity or quality of a of 438 00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:52,089 a quantum Right. Right. Right. The I suppose 439 00:16:52,089 --> 00:16:53,149 for the time being, 440 00:16:53,610 --> 00:16:56,009 error correction is is a really important Right. 441 00:16:56,089 --> 00:16:57,929 Issue, isn't it? Yes. So what will what 442 00:16:57,929 --> 00:17:00,329 is quantum error correction? And Yeah. So so 443 00:17:00,329 --> 00:17:03,289 quantum error correction is is how you, you 444 00:17:03,289 --> 00:17:04,095 know, protect 445 00:17:04,414 --> 00:17:06,434 this logical infer this quantum 446 00:17:06,734 --> 00:17:10,115 information you're encoding against noise. Right? And so, 447 00:17:10,654 --> 00:17:12,835 typically, you have to, you know, measure 448 00:17:13,214 --> 00:17:13,714 certain 449 00:17:14,095 --> 00:17:14,595 syndromes 450 00:17:14,974 --> 00:17:17,234 in in your in your system, repeatedly. 451 00:17:17,809 --> 00:17:20,630 And based on those the syndrome measurement outcomes, 452 00:17:21,009 --> 00:17:21,509 decide, 453 00:17:21,890 --> 00:17:23,569 you know, what is the most likely error 454 00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:26,049 that occurred. Right? And then you'll apply some 455 00:17:26,049 --> 00:17:27,109 feedback to, 456 00:17:27,410 --> 00:17:28,549 reverse those errors. 457 00:17:28,849 --> 00:17:31,169 So that that's that's the basic idea. But, 458 00:17:31,410 --> 00:17:33,410 remarkably, that like, quantum error correction, I think, 459 00:17:33,410 --> 00:17:36,365 is extremely deep and has a lot of 460 00:17:36,365 --> 00:17:37,505 relevance to, 461 00:17:39,644 --> 00:17:43,164 beyond its, original practical intention of preserving logical 462 00:17:43,164 --> 00:17:43,664 information. 463 00:17:44,445 --> 00:17:46,605 For example, it, you know, it it provides, 464 00:17:46,605 --> 00:17:48,065 like, a new angle for, 465 00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:49,789 for interpreting, 466 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:51,490 the the holographic 467 00:17:51,789 --> 00:17:53,330 correspondence, right, between, 468 00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:56,849 like, a, a system in one lower dimension 469 00:17:56,990 --> 00:17:59,330 and one in higher dimension with gravity. 470 00:18:00,109 --> 00:18:02,444 And and also for for me, there are 471 00:18:02,444 --> 00:18:04,125 a lot of deep connections between quantum error 472 00:18:04,125 --> 00:18:04,625 correction 473 00:18:05,164 --> 00:18:06,704 and quantum phases of matter. 474 00:18:07,325 --> 00:18:09,325 Right? So so my my interest is has 475 00:18:09,325 --> 00:18:10,704 been in kinda understanding, 476 00:18:12,284 --> 00:18:15,325 you know, the the error correcting regime versus 477 00:18:15,325 --> 00:18:17,744 the non error correcting regime as two different 478 00:18:18,029 --> 00:18:19,730 types of phase of matter. 479 00:18:20,029 --> 00:18:21,869 Right? Again, we'd like, going back to what 480 00:18:21,869 --> 00:18:23,230 you said, we can think of this quantum 481 00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:24,609 computer as some macroscopic 482 00:18:25,470 --> 00:18:27,730 quantum system, right, to be analyzed 483 00:18:28,269 --> 00:18:30,670 on the same footing as some quantum material, 484 00:18:30,670 --> 00:18:31,730 which we would conventionally, 485 00:18:32,914 --> 00:18:34,615 label as some phase of matter. 486 00:18:34,914 --> 00:18:36,914 Right. And and so yeah. So does that 487 00:18:36,914 --> 00:18:38,434 go back to, you know, you you were 488 00:18:38,434 --> 00:18:41,554 talking about top a topological state where the 489 00:18:41,554 --> 00:18:42,054 quantum 490 00:18:42,674 --> 00:18:44,275 well, the as as well as the quantum 491 00:18:44,275 --> 00:18:45,255 state is distributed 492 00:18:45,954 --> 00:18:46,434 between, 493 00:18:47,075 --> 00:18:47,974 several different 494 00:18:48,569 --> 00:18:50,250 entities. Is that I mean, is that an 495 00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:50,750 example 496 00:18:51,289 --> 00:18:54,569 maybe of a an error corrective Exactly. Yeah. 497 00:18:54,569 --> 00:18:56,089 Yeah. That that's a that's a very nice 498 00:18:56,089 --> 00:18:58,809 example of a of a topological phase of 499 00:18:58,809 --> 00:18:59,309 matter 500 00:18:59,690 --> 00:19:02,509 serving as a quantum error correcting code. 501 00:19:03,045 --> 00:19:04,725 Right? But then you can ask, you know, 502 00:19:04,725 --> 00:19:07,045 if you try to corrupt this, you know, 503 00:19:07,045 --> 00:19:09,924 with environmental noise, like, what's actually happening on 504 00:19:09,924 --> 00:19:12,565 the experimental quantum computer, at some point, it 505 00:19:12,565 --> 00:19:15,205 will lose the quantum information. Right? At some 506 00:19:15,205 --> 00:19:17,519 point, you will destroy this order. Right? So 507 00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:19,220 here, you have a case in which the 508 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,000 the error correction threshold, right, that the point 509 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:22,660 at which 510 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,840 you're, you know, you're you've lost the ability 511 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,680 to store quantum information gets, 512 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,640 destroyed, and that coincides with a a phase 513 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,580 transition. Right? So 514 00:19:33,414 --> 00:19:35,494 so, what I've been very interested in is, 515 00:19:35,494 --> 00:19:36,954 you know, applying this 516 00:19:37,255 --> 00:19:39,515 perspective of phases of matter and phase transitions, 517 00:19:40,454 --> 00:19:40,954 to, 518 00:19:41,575 --> 00:19:43,575 error correction, like, viewing that as a phase 519 00:19:43,575 --> 00:19:45,335 of matter and, you know, importing a lot 520 00:19:45,335 --> 00:19:46,855 of the techniques we have and thinking about 521 00:19:46,855 --> 00:19:47,755 phases of matter, 522 00:19:48,309 --> 00:19:51,109 into this, air correction setting. Yeah. Well, that's 523 00:19:51,109 --> 00:19:53,509 really interesting because I've I've always maintained that 524 00:19:53,509 --> 00:19:55,750 if there's one thing a physicist loves, it's 525 00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:58,009 a phase transition. Yeah. That's true. 526 00:19:58,309 --> 00:19:59,210 That's true. Yeah. 527 00:19:59,590 --> 00:20:01,509 There's, you know, a huge amount of insight 528 00:20:01,509 --> 00:20:03,224 into a system that you can get, isn't 529 00:20:03,224 --> 00:20:05,224 there, by watching? And there's a lot of, 530 00:20:05,304 --> 00:20:06,744 you know, like, notions of, 531 00:20:07,144 --> 00:20:09,224 universality. Right? The whole the whole idea of 532 00:20:09,224 --> 00:20:10,664 thinking about a phase of matter is that 533 00:20:10,664 --> 00:20:13,005 you don't have to deal with every individual 534 00:20:13,224 --> 00:20:16,285 system, right, and their, you know, different microscopic 535 00:20:16,505 --> 00:20:19,089 properties. You you care about the universal long 536 00:20:19,089 --> 00:20:21,589 distance physics, what's common to the whole, 537 00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:23,349 set of these systems. 538 00:20:23,809 --> 00:20:25,250 Right? And that that's a powerful way of 539 00:20:25,250 --> 00:20:27,329 thinking that I think, again, gives you some 540 00:20:27,329 --> 00:20:30,470 insights into these error correcting or not regimes. 541 00:20:31,964 --> 00:20:34,045 And and finally, Tim, I I wanted to, 542 00:20:35,085 --> 00:20:36,845 to to, you know, ask you about, 543 00:20:37,644 --> 00:20:40,204 your wish list Mhmm. For for quantum. You 544 00:20:40,204 --> 00:20:41,184 know, let's say, 545 00:20:41,884 --> 00:20:43,884 sometime in the future, not too far in 546 00:20:43,884 --> 00:20:46,710 the future, Mhmm. You know, people are able 547 00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:47,850 to build 548 00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:50,490 reasonably large quantum computers. 549 00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:54,009 Uh-huh. What what I mean, what sort of 550 00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:56,309 well, I don't know if if is program 551 00:20:56,309 --> 00:20:58,255 the right word? What would you like to 552 00:20:58,255 --> 00:21:00,095 run on a quantum computer? What sort of 553 00:21:00,095 --> 00:21:01,555 system would you like to simulate 554 00:21:02,015 --> 00:21:03,954 or create on that computer? 555 00:21:04,255 --> 00:21:06,815 What what would be your first? Mhmm. I 556 00:21:06,815 --> 00:21:08,434 see. Yeah. That's that's a 557 00:21:09,055 --> 00:21:10,115 that's a good question. 558 00:21:12,015 --> 00:21:12,515 So 559 00:21:13,369 --> 00:21:16,029 I guess, you know, given my condensed matter 560 00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:18,990 background of, you know, dealing with very 561 00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:21,230 hard models, 562 00:21:21,690 --> 00:21:24,250 you know, that we think describe real quantum 563 00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:26,330 materials that we have yet to solve, I 564 00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:28,154 think I would still like to, you know, 565 00:21:28,154 --> 00:21:29,375 probably use a quantum 566 00:21:29,755 --> 00:21:32,715 computer to gain insights into those effective models 567 00:21:32,715 --> 00:21:33,695 of quantum materials. 568 00:21:34,795 --> 00:21:37,035 For example, there are, you know, these these 569 00:21:37,035 --> 00:21:39,855 thing called Hubbard models, which are effective descriptions 570 00:21:39,994 --> 00:21:41,934 of, like, high temperature, superconductors, 571 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:45,980 things like that. And, you know, they're they're 572 00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:46,480 very 573 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:50,539 they're somewhat intractable for our classical computers to 574 00:21:50,539 --> 00:21:52,140 handle. And, also, we don't have that many 575 00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:53,599 great analytical techniques 576 00:21:54,059 --> 00:21:54,884 often to do. 577 00:21:55,605 --> 00:21:58,644 And so, you know, using some analog quantum 578 00:21:58,644 --> 00:22:00,984 simulator or maybe even a digital quantum computer, 579 00:22:02,484 --> 00:22:04,404 if we can get insights into, you know, 580 00:22:04,404 --> 00:22:06,105 like, the finite temperature properties 581 00:22:06,724 --> 00:22:07,285 of these, 582 00:22:07,684 --> 00:22:08,424 you know, 583 00:22:08,884 --> 00:22:10,265 strongly directing Hamiltonians, 584 00:22:10,819 --> 00:22:12,519 right, or, you know, like, the dynamics, 585 00:22:13,619 --> 00:22:15,380 I think that would be very, very useful 586 00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:16,519 and insightful. 587 00:22:17,299 --> 00:22:19,640 And I suppose beyond, you know, the 588 00:22:20,099 --> 00:22:21,160 the the pure physics, 589 00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:23,460 if you could get a handle on those 590 00:22:23,460 --> 00:22:25,654 materials. Mhmm. That I mean, that would be 591 00:22:25,654 --> 00:22:28,394 a revolution in material science, wouldn't it? Right. 592 00:22:28,535 --> 00:22:30,075 Right. Yeah. You could design 593 00:22:30,454 --> 00:22:31,275 some amazing 594 00:22:31,815 --> 00:22:34,214 material. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So 595 00:22:34,214 --> 00:22:36,855 maybe maybe learning more about these effective models, 596 00:22:36,855 --> 00:22:39,095 their, you know, their final temperature properties would 597 00:22:39,095 --> 00:22:41,320 would give us insight into 598 00:22:41,940 --> 00:22:44,500 maybe, you know, how to design materials with, 599 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:46,359 like, higher TC, for example. 600 00:22:47,140 --> 00:22:47,640 Yeah. 601 00:22:48,340 --> 00:22:50,500 Well, thanks, Tim. Thanks for for speaking to 602 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:52,740 me, and, I hope that your dream will 603 00:22:52,740 --> 00:22:55,255 come true. Yeah. Yeah. You'll get to, to 604 00:22:55,255 --> 00:22:58,294 do those those calculations or experiments or whatever 605 00:22:58,294 --> 00:23:00,054 you want to call it Yeah. Yeah. On 606 00:23:00,054 --> 00:23:02,294 the quantum computer sometime in the future. Thanks 607 00:23:02,294 --> 00:23:04,954 for coming on the podcast. Thanks, Alish. Thanks. 608 00:23:13,450 --> 00:23:16,269 That was Tim Shea of the Perimeter Institute 609 00:23:16,330 --> 00:23:17,869 for Theoretical Physics. 610 00:23:18,410 --> 00:23:20,910 Thanks to Tim for a fascinating discussion 611 00:23:21,289 --> 00:23:22,910 about all things quantum. 612 00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:25,789 And thank you for listening to this podcast, 613 00:23:26,204 --> 00:23:28,224 which is supported by the APS 614 00:23:28,845 --> 00:23:30,384 Global Physics Summit. 615 00:23:31,005 --> 00:23:32,464 To continue advancing 616 00:23:32,765 --> 00:23:34,704 physics beyond this podcast, 617 00:23:35,244 --> 00:23:36,784 participate in the APS 618 00:23:37,565 --> 00:23:39,184 Global Physics Summit 619 00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:42,090 on March 620 00:23:42,090 --> 00:23:44,420 2026 621 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,259 in Denver, Colorado, 622 00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:47,940 and online. 623 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:49,299 Experience 624 00:23:49,599 --> 00:23:50,339 high impact 625 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,779 scientific sessions, 626 00:23:52,375 --> 00:23:53,434 networking opportunities, 627 00:23:54,054 --> 00:23:54,554 workshops, 628 00:23:55,015 --> 00:23:56,954 and community building events 629 00:23:57,255 --> 00:23:59,434 designed for every career stage. 630 00:24:00,134 --> 00:24:02,535 Learn how you can attend and shape the 631 00:24:02,535 --> 00:24:07,674 future of physics at summit.aps.org. 632 00:24:08,289 --> 00:24:10,849 We'll be back again next week with our 633 00:24:10,849 --> 00:24:13,109 top 10 breakthroughs in physics 634 00:24:13,410 --> 00:24:15,109 for 2025. 635 00:24:15,570 --> 00:24:19,029 Thanks to Fred Iles for producing this episode.