1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,199 Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly 2 00:00:11,199 --> 00:00:11,699 podcast. 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,365 Last week, Physics World's Matin Durrani boarded a 4 00:00:15,365 --> 00:00:16,585 ferry in Hamburg 5 00:00:17,125 --> 00:00:18,744 that was bound for Helgoland, 6 00:00:19,445 --> 00:00:20,265 an archipelago 7 00:00:20,804 --> 00:00:24,085 in the North Sea, about 70 kilometers off 8 00:00:24,085 --> 00:00:26,184 the Northwest Coast of Germany. 9 00:00:26,969 --> 00:00:29,629 It was a century ago in Helgoland 10 00:00:30,010 --> 00:00:32,350 that the physicist Werner Heisenberg 11 00:00:33,049 --> 00:00:34,189 devised the mathematical 12 00:00:34,570 --> 00:00:35,070 framework 13 00:00:35,450 --> 00:00:39,070 that underpins our understanding of quantum physics. 14 00:00:39,795 --> 00:00:41,715 Matin was there with some of the world's 15 00:00:41,715 --> 00:00:42,215 leading 16 00:00:42,594 --> 00:00:43,575 quantum physicists 17 00:00:44,115 --> 00:00:46,215 for a conference called Helgoland 18 00:00:46,914 --> 00:00:48,215 twenty twenty five, 19 00:00:48,594 --> 00:00:51,174 one hundred years of quantum mechanics. 20 00:00:51,554 --> 00:00:54,539 And this conference celebrated Heisenberg's 21 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,020 brief stay on the archipelago's 22 00:00:57,960 --> 00:00:58,940 main island. 23 00:00:59,719 --> 00:01:02,380 Matin caught up with three eminent scientists 24 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,380 and asked them to reflect 25 00:01:04,745 --> 00:01:05,405 on Heisenberg's 26 00:01:05,784 --> 00:01:08,844 contributions to quantum science and also 27 00:01:09,145 --> 00:01:11,245 to look forward to the next 28 00:01:11,545 --> 00:01:13,645 one hundred years of quantum 29 00:01:14,105 --> 00:01:15,484 science and technology. 30 00:01:16,424 --> 00:01:17,965 Here are those conversations. 31 00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:28,590 My name is Tracy Northup. I'm a professor 32 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:30,689 at the University of Innsbruck in Austria. 33 00:01:31,229 --> 00:01:33,549 I'm a professor in experimental physics. My group 34 00:01:33,549 --> 00:01:35,045 works on quantum interfaces, 35 00:01:35,825 --> 00:01:36,325 between, 36 00:01:37,424 --> 00:01:38,384 light and matter. 37 00:01:39,185 --> 00:01:40,484 And we're in Helgoland, 38 00:01:40,944 --> 00:01:43,504 in Germany at this conference celebrating a hundred 39 00:01:43,504 --> 00:01:44,644 years of quantum mechanics. 40 00:01:45,024 --> 00:01:46,965 And is this your first visit to Helgoland? 41 00:01:47,104 --> 00:01:48,405 Have you, felt any 42 00:01:48,739 --> 00:01:50,900 inspiration from Werner Heisenberg from all those years 43 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:52,979 ago? It is my first visit to Helgoland. 44 00:01:53,219 --> 00:01:55,459 It's a very remote island. It's beautiful, and 45 00:01:55,459 --> 00:01:57,399 it's so certainly inspiring to be here. 46 00:01:57,859 --> 00:02:00,019 And we've heard a lot about fundamental questions 47 00:02:00,019 --> 00:02:02,439 in or the foundational questions in quantum mechanics. 48 00:02:03,034 --> 00:02:04,555 Do those interest you, and what do what 49 00:02:04,555 --> 00:02:06,415 most inspires you about those questions? 50 00:02:07,155 --> 00:02:09,514 I think these foundational questions are absolutely interesting. 51 00:02:09,514 --> 00:02:11,034 It's it's not what I work on myself. 52 00:02:11,034 --> 00:02:11,935 I'm an experimental 53 00:02:12,395 --> 00:02:14,395 researcher where we work with trapped ions and 54 00:02:14,395 --> 00:02:15,215 trapped nanoparticles. 55 00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:17,930 But it's fascinating to hear about these questions 56 00:02:17,930 --> 00:02:19,849 that my colleagues are engaging with and also 57 00:02:19,849 --> 00:02:22,169 to think about what the repercussions of those 58 00:02:22,169 --> 00:02:25,050 questions are for experimental physics. You know, how 59 00:02:25,050 --> 00:02:25,949 does our 60 00:02:26,250 --> 00:02:29,104 interpretation of quantum mechanics, how does that shape 61 00:02:29,104 --> 00:02:31,025 how we think about quantum mechanics, how we 62 00:02:31,025 --> 00:02:32,165 think about our measurements, 63 00:02:32,784 --> 00:02:35,264 how we think about this interplay between experiment 64 00:02:35,264 --> 00:02:35,925 and theory? 65 00:02:36,305 --> 00:02:37,745 So tell me about the panel that you're 66 00:02:37,745 --> 00:02:40,064 chairing on the last day of the conference, 67 00:02:40,064 --> 00:02:41,745 Saturday. Who who who who's going to be 68 00:02:41,745 --> 00:02:43,444 on it, and what will you be discussing? 69 00:02:43,719 --> 00:02:46,360 Right. So on Saturday, at noon, I'll chair 70 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,280 a panel. It will be the the last 71 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:49,879 event at the conference, and it will be 72 00:02:49,879 --> 00:02:51,959 about the next hundred years of quantum mechanics. 73 00:02:51,959 --> 00:02:54,439 So that's an exciting topic. It's a daunting 74 00:02:54,439 --> 00:02:58,060 topic. And, the panel members are Peter Zoller, 75 00:02:58,324 --> 00:03:01,384 Gerd Leichs, Lorenzo Mccone, and Ramon Schnabel. So, 76 00:03:01,844 --> 00:03:02,745 really leading, 77 00:03:03,125 --> 00:03:06,745 theorists and experimental physicists, in quantum mechanics, and, 78 00:03:07,205 --> 00:03:08,745 I'm looking forward to their insights. 79 00:03:09,444 --> 00:03:10,644 So, I mean, how are you gonna pack 80 00:03:10,644 --> 00:03:12,164 the next hundred years into an is it 81 00:03:12,164 --> 00:03:14,120 an hour? That sounds really, really ambitious. I've 82 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,400 I've good luck to you. How are you 83 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,240 going to do that? Yeah. It is an 84 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,460 hour. So 85 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,599 we'll we'll start by having, 86 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:23,719 each panelist comment for a few minutes on, 87 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:24,974 you know, some of their thoughts, 88 00:03:25,775 --> 00:03:28,335 and then we've put together some questions that 89 00:03:28,335 --> 00:03:30,014 we've discussed in advance that we thought would 90 00:03:30,014 --> 00:03:31,855 be interesting to to kind of see some 91 00:03:31,855 --> 00:03:33,135 different counterpoints on. 92 00:03:33,855 --> 00:03:35,694 And so we've, we'll have a couple of 93 00:03:35,694 --> 00:03:37,955 different panel members address each question. 94 00:03:38,909 --> 00:03:40,990 And, yeah, I think we're we won't maybe 95 00:03:40,990 --> 00:03:43,009 tackle the whole hundred years all at once, 96 00:03:43,310 --> 00:03:45,069 but, but I think maybe also kind of 97 00:03:45,069 --> 00:03:46,590 in the shorter term, what are we looking 98 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:47,569 forward to seeing? 99 00:03:48,030 --> 00:03:49,889 What are some trends that that we see? 100 00:03:49,949 --> 00:03:51,389 So where do you think most progress will 101 00:03:51,389 --> 00:03:53,055 be made in the next hundred years? What 102 00:03:53,055 --> 00:03:54,655 do you think? Where where's your money on? 103 00:03:54,655 --> 00:03:56,254 What what what's what progress will we see 104 00:03:56,254 --> 00:03:57,794 the quickest pace of change? 105 00:03:58,415 --> 00:04:00,495 Oh, you know, I think it's it's so 106 00:04:00,495 --> 00:04:02,735 hard to say. So maybe I will I 107 00:04:02,735 --> 00:04:05,375 will stick with what I know best. You 108 00:04:05,375 --> 00:04:07,875 know, this morning actually here at the conference, 109 00:04:08,230 --> 00:04:08,969 we heard about, 110 00:04:10,950 --> 00:04:13,689 macroscopic quantum mechanics, about people, 111 00:04:14,469 --> 00:04:16,649 like Marcus Arndt and Marcus Asplemaier, 112 00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:18,810 looking at, 113 00:04:22,104 --> 00:04:25,144 we quant sorry. The the weave dynamics of 114 00:04:25,144 --> 00:04:25,964 of of 115 00:04:26,664 --> 00:04:28,745 of of of matter and also asking, you 116 00:04:28,745 --> 00:04:31,144 know, can we build experiments to test the 117 00:04:31,144 --> 00:04:34,024 interplay of gravity and quantum mechanics? And so 118 00:04:34,024 --> 00:04:35,164 I find this frontier 119 00:04:35,544 --> 00:04:37,540 of trying to build 120 00:04:38,079 --> 00:04:38,579 macroscopic 121 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,379 quantum states really compelling. And, 122 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,839 because there's been so much progress, you know, 123 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,519 it's something I, it's it's a field that 124 00:04:45,519 --> 00:04:47,040 we also work on in my group, 125 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,439 and and I'm I'm really excited to see 126 00:04:49,439 --> 00:04:51,254 what comes in the next few years. So 127 00:04:51,415 --> 00:04:52,615 if we were here in a hundred years' 128 00:04:52,615 --> 00:04:54,615 time, there was another conference celebrating two hundred 129 00:04:54,615 --> 00:04:57,095 years of quantum mechanics. What would you think 130 00:04:57,095 --> 00:04:57,654 would be the, 131 00:04:58,375 --> 00:04:59,814 you know, the the big questions on the 132 00:04:59,814 --> 00:05:01,415 horizon in a hundred years? Or what would 133 00:05:01,415 --> 00:05:03,334 be what would be celebrating in a hundred 134 00:05:03,334 --> 00:05:05,519 years? Sorry. That's a really difficult question. I 135 00:05:05,519 --> 00:05:07,360 don't envy you trying to answer it. Yeah. 136 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:08,800 I think I think the most honest answer 137 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,240 is I just don't know. You know, something 138 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,419 I was thinking about today is 139 00:05:12,959 --> 00:05:15,040 where would where would people have been in 140 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,254 previous centuries? You know, when we think so 141 00:05:17,254 --> 00:05:18,555 in 1925, 142 00:05:18,615 --> 00:05:21,814 it's Heisenberg here making this this breakthrough in 143 00:05:21,814 --> 00:05:24,134 the development of quantum mechanics. When we think 144 00:05:24,134 --> 00:05:25,654 a hundred years before that, 145 00:05:26,294 --> 00:05:28,454 people were just sort of figuring out that 146 00:05:28,454 --> 00:05:31,254 electricity and magnetism were were two aspects of 147 00:05:31,254 --> 00:05:33,470 the same thing. And so, you know, for 148 00:05:33,470 --> 00:05:35,870 those for that those people to have imagined 149 00:05:35,870 --> 00:05:38,029 quantum mechanics, you know, that was so far 150 00:05:38,029 --> 00:05:38,529 beyond 151 00:05:39,069 --> 00:05:41,310 where they were, and and they they didn't 152 00:05:41,310 --> 00:05:42,029 yet have, 153 00:05:42,509 --> 00:05:44,209 Maxwell's equations and electromagnetism. 154 00:05:45,230 --> 00:05:47,069 And then, you know right. So it's interesting 155 00:05:47,069 --> 00:05:48,129 to imagine what 156 00:05:49,444 --> 00:05:52,165 Heisenberg and and Born and Pauli and the 157 00:05:52,165 --> 00:05:53,925 set of people in in the nineteen twenties 158 00:05:53,925 --> 00:05:55,545 would have imagined for now. 159 00:05:56,485 --> 00:05:56,985 I, 160 00:05:59,165 --> 00:06:01,524 I yeah. Is it now perhaps in terms 161 00:06:01,524 --> 00:06:03,860 of these foundational questions, you know, how do 162 00:06:03,860 --> 00:06:06,180 we interpret quantum mechanics? Perhaps that's something where 163 00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:07,300 they might have thought we would be a 164 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:08,360 lot further along. 165 00:06:09,220 --> 00:06:11,540 But until yeah. I feel the same that 166 00:06:11,540 --> 00:06:13,460 same gap in in saying, you know, I'm 167 00:06:13,460 --> 00:06:14,899 sure that in in a hundred years, we 168 00:06:14,899 --> 00:06:16,180 will be somewhere that none of us can 169 00:06:16,180 --> 00:06:17,944 picture right now. So will we all all 170 00:06:17,944 --> 00:06:19,865 be sitting here with quantum computers on our 171 00:06:19,865 --> 00:06:20,665 laptops and, 172 00:06:21,225 --> 00:06:23,725 you know, sending messages, you know, with QKD 173 00:06:23,865 --> 00:06:25,384 and, you know, what will we be doing? 174 00:06:25,384 --> 00:06:27,404 How what sort of technologies can you imagine 175 00:06:27,704 --> 00:06:29,790 us having ordinary people having? 176 00:06:30,189 --> 00:06:31,629 Right. I mean, I think we're we're still 177 00:06:31,629 --> 00:06:34,270 quite clear that we expect quantum computers to 178 00:06:34,270 --> 00:06:36,370 be used for very specialized tasks. 179 00:06:37,069 --> 00:06:38,670 So it's it's hard for me to imagine 180 00:06:38,670 --> 00:06:40,509 us having quantum computers, you know, sitting on 181 00:06:40,509 --> 00:06:42,509 our laps because I I I I I 182 00:06:42,509 --> 00:06:44,775 can't imagine the need for them. But I 183 00:06:44,775 --> 00:06:45,835 I do picture 184 00:06:46,295 --> 00:06:48,935 that we would have access, you know, via 185 00:06:48,935 --> 00:06:51,835 the cloud, via secure communication channels, 186 00:06:53,254 --> 00:06:55,814 two powerful quantum computers that that maybe we 187 00:06:55,814 --> 00:06:57,415 would be using, you know, researchers here at 188 00:06:57,415 --> 00:06:59,759 that conference would be using to be running 189 00:06:59,899 --> 00:07:02,860 simulations or calculations in in parallel with with 190 00:07:02,860 --> 00:07:05,099 with meeting here. And I think these kind 191 00:07:05,099 --> 00:07:08,319 of channels for secure communication, quantum communication, 192 00:07:09,819 --> 00:07:12,939 will become, right, cheap and accessible. That's something 193 00:07:12,939 --> 00:07:14,250 that we're we're hoping. Because 194 00:07:14,814 --> 00:07:16,014 because some people are quite interested in the 195 00:07:16,014 --> 00:07:18,415 sort of ethical questions about quantum. Is that 196 00:07:18,415 --> 00:07:20,095 something that concerns you, or do you give 197 00:07:20,095 --> 00:07:21,235 much thought to that? 198 00:07:21,935 --> 00:07:23,855 So I think, right, ethical questions of any 199 00:07:23,855 --> 00:07:26,274 new technology are are crucial and important. 200 00:07:27,580 --> 00:07:29,259 But it's also a question of when is 201 00:07:29,259 --> 00:07:30,939 the right time that you start writing those 202 00:07:30,939 --> 00:07:33,500 regulations. You know? And and, for example, if 203 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:35,520 if if we were trying to regulate 204 00:07:35,980 --> 00:07:36,480 AI, 205 00:07:36,939 --> 00:07:38,720 you know, twenty five years ago, 206 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:40,879 would that have made sense? 207 00:07:41,685 --> 00:07:43,764 And so I I think people are with 208 00:07:43,764 --> 00:07:45,845 quantum. I would say that with quantum knowledge, 209 00:07:45,845 --> 00:07:46,824 people are quite 210 00:07:47,764 --> 00:07:49,944 aware of or thinking about 211 00:07:50,324 --> 00:07:52,345 questions about ethics and regulation 212 00:07:53,444 --> 00:07:53,944 in, 213 00:07:54,529 --> 00:07:55,889 in a nice way. I mean, I see 214 00:07:55,889 --> 00:07:57,589 those discussions already happening. 215 00:07:58,209 --> 00:07:59,910 But I think the point at which you 216 00:07:59,970 --> 00:08:00,470 start 217 00:08:03,329 --> 00:08:05,350 start regulating that in in a, 218 00:08:06,425 --> 00:08:08,105 that that we're we're not that's it feels 219 00:08:08,105 --> 00:08:09,625 too early for that for me. But you 220 00:08:09,625 --> 00:08:11,225 definitely think we'll be here in a hundred 221 00:08:11,225 --> 00:08:12,425 years. Do you think we will still have 222 00:08:12,425 --> 00:08:14,585 meetings that we will come together and, we'll 223 00:08:14,585 --> 00:08:16,745 be going up to the Heisenberg monuments in 224 00:08:16,745 --> 00:08:18,180 a in a 100 years' time? 225 00:08:18,819 --> 00:08:20,500 But it's also a great question. Yeah. Right? 226 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:21,860 Will it will it still make sense that 227 00:08:21,860 --> 00:08:23,319 you bring everybody together, 228 00:08:23,699 --> 00:08:25,220 for these kind of meetings? You know, I 229 00:08:25,220 --> 00:08:27,479 I think what you see after the pandemic 230 00:08:27,539 --> 00:08:29,620 is that people kind of value meeting in 231 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:31,379 person in in a in a special way. 232 00:08:31,379 --> 00:08:33,240 Right? We say, look, there are things that 233 00:08:33,504 --> 00:08:34,964 where it's really worthwhile 234 00:08:35,424 --> 00:08:36,964 not to do this over Zoom, 235 00:08:37,584 --> 00:08:39,664 but also to to take the time, right, 236 00:08:39,664 --> 00:08:41,345 to carve out time in our schedules to 237 00:08:41,345 --> 00:08:42,485 just have these discussions. 238 00:08:43,504 --> 00:08:44,164 And so, 239 00:08:44,544 --> 00:08:45,605 yeah, I I certainly, 240 00:08:46,529 --> 00:08:47,970 imagine that that will still be the case, 241 00:08:47,970 --> 00:08:50,850 that that's something fundamental to to being human. 242 00:08:51,169 --> 00:08:52,610 But we also think about you know, we 243 00:08:52,610 --> 00:08:54,370 have also have to be aware of the, 244 00:08:54,370 --> 00:08:56,690 you know, the ecological cost of travel. Right? 245 00:08:56,690 --> 00:08:58,210 You know, to this, how often does it 246 00:08:58,210 --> 00:08:59,625 make sense for for for us as a 247 00:08:59,625 --> 00:09:01,705 community to come together and to travel over 248 00:09:01,705 --> 00:09:02,904 great distances to do that? 249 00:09:03,785 --> 00:09:05,225 But I think these these meetings are very 250 00:09:05,225 --> 00:09:06,045 special opportunities. 251 00:09:06,504 --> 00:09:08,024 And how did you enjoy the ferry ride 252 00:09:08,024 --> 00:09:09,625 over? You know, that was quite exciting, wasn't 253 00:09:09,625 --> 00:09:10,825 it? It was quite about three and a 254 00:09:10,825 --> 00:09:12,480 half hours from Hamburg. Three and a half 255 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,240 hours from Hamburg. You know, most of it 256 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,919 was on the Elbe, which is quite quiet. 257 00:09:15,919 --> 00:09:17,040 It's, you know, the river. But then when 258 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,399 we got into the open sea, it was 259 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:19,299 a little choppy. 260 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,600 I was outdoors, so I felt, like, you 261 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,600 know, getting a little wet, but I think 262 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,139 I, didn't get too seasick. 263 00:09:26,245 --> 00:09:28,164 It's funny to think about Heisenberg doing his 264 00:09:28,164 --> 00:09:30,004 calculations because he wouldn't have had anything other 265 00:09:30,004 --> 00:09:31,764 than sort of textbooks and then his pen 266 00:09:31,764 --> 00:09:33,945 and paper, and there would have been no 267 00:09:34,164 --> 00:09:37,524 telephones, no any way of communicating, no radio. 268 00:09:37,524 --> 00:09:39,190 It's really bizarre to think that, you know, 269 00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:41,509 the progress he made with no technology at 270 00:09:41,509 --> 00:09:42,170 his fingertips. 271 00:09:42,629 --> 00:09:44,070 Right. It's a sort of picture that he's 272 00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:45,830 kind of over here where he's brought some, 273 00:09:45,830 --> 00:09:48,470 you know, books and paper, and that mostly 274 00:09:48,470 --> 00:09:50,550 he's kinda wandering around the island, you know, 275 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:52,090 recovering from his allergies, 276 00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:53,610 getting some exercise, 277 00:09:54,605 --> 00:09:57,105 but then, yeah, kinda sitting down and scribbling 278 00:09:57,164 --> 00:09:58,924 and and working things out in his head. 279 00:09:58,924 --> 00:10:00,764 Yeah. Do do you worry about AI or 280 00:10:00,764 --> 00:10:02,924 anything? Sorry. Going off completely off, of quantum. 281 00:10:02,924 --> 00:10:04,605 But AI, is that something that worries you 282 00:10:04,605 --> 00:10:06,044 about how we all sort of learn and 283 00:10:06,044 --> 00:10:07,424 do physics in the future? 284 00:10:08,019 --> 00:10:10,259 I mean, it's I I think it's certainly 285 00:10:10,259 --> 00:10:12,179 something that we all have to engage with. 286 00:10:12,179 --> 00:10:12,919 Right? What 287 00:10:13,779 --> 00:10:15,860 how can we use it to help our 288 00:10:15,860 --> 00:10:17,379 work? You know? And that's, of course, not 289 00:10:17,379 --> 00:10:19,539 just for physics. That's for everybody in the 290 00:10:19,539 --> 00:10:21,375 world. You know? How how does it how 291 00:10:21,375 --> 00:10:22,034 do we 292 00:10:22,735 --> 00:10:24,674 use it to, you know, 293 00:10:25,695 --> 00:10:27,294 to allow us to do things that maybe 294 00:10:27,294 --> 00:10:28,434 we couldn't do otherwise? 295 00:10:28,975 --> 00:10:30,735 But but also to acknowledge that what are 296 00:10:30,735 --> 00:10:32,735 the things that we are currently doing well 297 00:10:32,735 --> 00:10:34,095 and that where we don't think it can 298 00:10:34,095 --> 00:10:36,290 replace us. Of course, the tricky question is, 299 00:10:36,290 --> 00:10:38,690 you know, the answer in six months or 300 00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:40,210 a year is gonna maybe be different than 301 00:10:40,210 --> 00:10:41,830 what what what we know now. 302 00:10:42,690 --> 00:10:44,470 So, yeah, I think it's, 303 00:10:44,929 --> 00:10:45,590 and and 304 00:10:46,210 --> 00:10:48,290 so it's it's this very positive development, but, 305 00:10:48,290 --> 00:10:49,335 of course, plenty of 306 00:10:49,894 --> 00:10:53,095 ethical questions there and just questions about how 307 00:10:53,095 --> 00:10:54,855 does this change the way we work? How 308 00:10:54,855 --> 00:10:57,014 do we evolve as scientists? So do you 309 00:10:57,014 --> 00:10:58,455 use AI in your work at all? Is 310 00:10:58,455 --> 00:10:59,654 there any way you use it for helping 311 00:10:59,654 --> 00:11:02,730 with your experiments or with your research papers? 312 00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:04,230 Right. So in, 313 00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:06,009 not really currently. 314 00:11:06,709 --> 00:11:07,190 Is I, 315 00:11:07,829 --> 00:11:10,069 I think maybe people in my research group 316 00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:12,009 would be using it perhaps for kind of, 317 00:11:12,549 --> 00:11:15,174 for help with with coding, with programming something, 318 00:11:16,014 --> 00:11:16,514 or 319 00:11:16,855 --> 00:11:17,355 for, 320 00:11:19,174 --> 00:11:21,735 checking, spelling or grammar on a paper, that 321 00:11:21,735 --> 00:11:22,955 they're writing. But but, 322 00:11:23,495 --> 00:11:25,914 I think we we haven't kind of implemented 323 00:11:25,975 --> 00:11:27,195 any kind of 324 00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:30,029 structured use of it in our room. 325 00:11:30,570 --> 00:11:32,089 Alright. Well, let's hope maybe in a hundred 326 00:11:32,089 --> 00:11:34,089 years someone's gonna listen back to this conversation. 327 00:11:34,089 --> 00:11:35,450 Who knows? I wonder what they make what 328 00:11:35,450 --> 00:11:36,970 they make of it. Thank you very much, 329 00:11:36,970 --> 00:11:38,990 Tracy. You're welcome. Thank you so much. 330 00:11:46,085 --> 00:11:48,884 So I'm Michelle Simmons. I'm the CEO and 331 00:11:48,884 --> 00:11:51,625 founder of Silicon Quantum Computing in Sydney, Australia, 332 00:11:51,845 --> 00:11:54,480 and we're currently at the hundredth anniversary of, 333 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,339 quantum physics in Helgoland. 334 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,419 And this is your first visit to Helgoland. 335 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,220 What's been your impressions of, following in Heisenberg's 336 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:01,860 footsteps? 337 00:12:02,959 --> 00:12:04,500 This it's been pretty amazing 338 00:12:04,879 --> 00:12:07,365 mainly because of the, variety of the talks. 339 00:12:08,084 --> 00:12:09,225 But also, I think, 340 00:12:10,084 --> 00:12:11,924 Heisenberg came here to get away from the 341 00:12:11,924 --> 00:12:14,084 rest of the world and to have clarity 342 00:12:14,084 --> 00:12:16,245 of thought by being in a beautiful location, 343 00:12:16,245 --> 00:12:18,164 and so it certainly is that. And have 344 00:12:18,164 --> 00:12:20,250 you had any clarity of thought yourself? 345 00:12:20,649 --> 00:12:22,649 I have. So I'm known to be a 346 00:12:22,649 --> 00:12:23,149 workaholic, 347 00:12:23,690 --> 00:12:25,370 and so I have very much enjoyed I 348 00:12:25,370 --> 00:12:27,529 get up very early walking across the island 349 00:12:27,529 --> 00:12:28,990 and looking at the wildlife, 350 00:12:29,769 --> 00:12:32,169 looking at the little fairy birds that are 351 00:12:32,169 --> 00:12:32,970 out there, and, 352 00:12:33,495 --> 00:12:35,575 and then basically being in the North Sea 353 00:12:35,575 --> 00:12:37,914 wind, which is strong and refreshing. 354 00:12:38,455 --> 00:12:40,615 So you originally, you did you you're from 355 00:12:40,615 --> 00:12:42,534 The UK, aren't you originally? You studied at 356 00:12:42,534 --> 00:12:44,455 Durham. Is that right? And, in fact, you 357 00:12:44,455 --> 00:12:45,654 were at the Cavendish, I think, when I 358 00:12:45,654 --> 00:12:47,279 was there in the nineties, so maybe we 359 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,279 brushed past each other. But you've been in 360 00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,519 Australia for quite a long time now. Yeah. 361 00:12:51,519 --> 00:12:53,040 So, yeah, I grew up in London, went 362 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:54,560 up to Durham, and then, as you say, 363 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:56,740 was in Cavendish from '92 to '97. 364 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,200 Oh, sorry. '92 to '99. And then, yeah, 365 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,480 I went to Sydney, and I've been there 366 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:01,784 for twenty five years now. 367 00:13:02,504 --> 00:13:05,144 Very much focused on one big mission, and 368 00:13:05,144 --> 00:13:07,304 that is to build a quantum computer using 369 00:13:07,304 --> 00:13:08,684 atom qubits in silicon. 370 00:13:09,144 --> 00:13:10,904 And are there many people doing that sort 371 00:13:10,904 --> 00:13:12,365 of project who are here at Helgoland? 372 00:13:13,144 --> 00:13:14,824 So that there's actually a lot of theorists 373 00:13:14,824 --> 00:13:16,649 here mainly. So but there are a few 374 00:13:16,809 --> 00:13:19,210 experimentalists hidden amongst them. And a lot of 375 00:13:19,210 --> 00:13:21,290 those experimentalists are right at the forefront of 376 00:13:21,290 --> 00:13:23,309 their respective field. So either, 377 00:13:23,610 --> 00:13:26,009 in ion trap quantum computing or superconducting qubits. 378 00:13:26,009 --> 00:13:28,170 So it's quite fascinating to be here. There's 379 00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:29,370 been a lot of talk about sort of 380 00:13:29,370 --> 00:13:31,865 foundational work. Is that sort of relevant to 381 00:13:31,865 --> 00:13:33,404 what you're doing in your group? 382 00:13:34,105 --> 00:13:36,345 Yeah. So in quantum physics, obviously, it's a 383 00:13:36,345 --> 00:13:38,184 field that's very rich. It's, you know, 100 384 00:13:38,184 --> 00:13:41,784 years old. It is, mainly academic and theoretical, 385 00:13:41,784 --> 00:13:43,019 has been for a long time. 386 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:44,940 But I call it the golden age of 387 00:13:44,940 --> 00:13:46,779 the experiment. This in the last twenty five 388 00:13:46,779 --> 00:13:49,179 years or so, we now have the tools 389 00:13:49,179 --> 00:13:51,019 that allow us to manipulate the world at 390 00:13:51,019 --> 00:13:53,259 the very smallest length scales. And so we're 391 00:13:53,259 --> 00:13:55,100 able, really, for the first time, to try 392 00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:57,605 and control quantum states and then see if 393 00:13:57,605 --> 00:13:59,605 we can use them for different types of 394 00:13:59,605 --> 00:14:01,464 information encoding or for sensing. 395 00:14:02,085 --> 00:14:03,605 And then sorry. I can't remember. Are you 396 00:14:03,605 --> 00:14:05,544 presenting a talk at, Helgoland? 397 00:14:06,404 --> 00:14:08,105 So I'm actually on a panel tonight. 398 00:14:08,644 --> 00:14:10,699 And that panel, I think, is gonna hopefully 399 00:14:10,699 --> 00:14:12,299 have a little bit of controversy, but really 400 00:14:12,299 --> 00:14:14,700 talking about, quantum physics in the future. So 401 00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:16,059 if we came back in a hundred years' 402 00:14:16,059 --> 00:14:18,620 time to Helgoland in, 2125, 403 00:14:18,620 --> 00:14:20,220 what do you think where would be with 404 00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:22,779 quantum physics, quantum computing? Can you can you 405 00:14:22,779 --> 00:14:23,894 even look that far ahead? 406 00:14:24,535 --> 00:14:26,455 I I don't think I can. So I'm 407 00:14:26,455 --> 00:14:29,254 a very pragmatic and practical person. So I 408 00:14:29,254 --> 00:14:31,335 think I have always tried to plan my 409 00:14:31,335 --> 00:14:32,934 life ten years ahead of where I am 410 00:14:32,934 --> 00:14:33,434 today. 411 00:14:33,735 --> 00:14:35,735 And so I think the next ten years 412 00:14:35,735 --> 00:14:37,254 are certainly gonna be very exciting for the 413 00:14:37,254 --> 00:14:39,929 field. You can see that there are companies 414 00:14:39,929 --> 00:14:41,389 setting up all across the world, 415 00:14:41,769 --> 00:14:44,190 really making practical systems now. 416 00:14:44,649 --> 00:14:46,889 So we believe we've got some processes in 417 00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:49,290 the quantum machine learning space that are showing 418 00:14:49,290 --> 00:14:51,870 advantage today, and that's something we didn't anticipate 419 00:14:52,009 --> 00:14:54,115 until another four years from now. And so 420 00:14:54,115 --> 00:14:56,355 I think the field is rapidly accelerating, so 421 00:14:56,355 --> 00:14:58,115 it's gonna be hugely exciting over the next 422 00:14:58,115 --> 00:15:00,274 five, ten years. And what sort of skills 423 00:15:00,274 --> 00:15:02,115 do you think, you know, physicists need if 424 00:15:02,115 --> 00:15:03,795 they want to go into the quantum sector? 425 00:15:03,795 --> 00:15:05,475 I mean, you've obviously set up your own 426 00:15:05,475 --> 00:15:07,495 company. There's obviously lots of opportunities. 427 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,159 Huge opportunities in this field at the moment. 428 00:15:10,159 --> 00:15:11,299 I think, obviously, 429 00:15:11,679 --> 00:15:13,600 having a background in physics and maths is 430 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,940 is fantastic for this field, but also statistics 431 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,720 and coding are two areas that are are 432 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:19,220 fundamental. 433 00:15:19,839 --> 00:15:22,639 But as it becomes very experimental and practical, 434 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:24,754 then you need skills right across the board 435 00:15:24,754 --> 00:15:26,834 of people that manufacture things, people that make 436 00:15:26,834 --> 00:15:28,934 instruments, that measure things very precisely. 437 00:15:29,554 --> 00:15:31,074 There's a lot of theory that comes quite 438 00:15:31,074 --> 00:15:32,995 embedded in a lot of the experimental work, 439 00:15:32,995 --> 00:15:34,995 so getting very close to the experimentalist as 440 00:15:34,995 --> 00:15:36,454 a theorist would be ideal. 441 00:15:36,914 --> 00:15:38,914 But then, yes, with companies, you have products. 442 00:15:38,914 --> 00:15:40,910 So it's really kind of expanding, 443 00:15:41,290 --> 00:15:42,570 to all the skill sets you would have 444 00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:43,549 for a new industry. 445 00:15:43,929 --> 00:15:45,450 So which sort of products are closest to 446 00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:47,690 market? People talk about sensors being very close 447 00:15:47,690 --> 00:15:49,529 or what but, obviously, maybe you you think 448 00:15:49,529 --> 00:15:50,029 differently. 449 00:15:50,410 --> 00:15:52,169 Yes. So sensing is always believed to be 450 00:15:52,169 --> 00:15:54,410 the closest. But, in the machine learning space, 451 00:15:54,410 --> 00:15:56,524 I I think that's that's real now. So, 452 00:15:56,985 --> 00:15:59,304 we have a processor that gives, an increased 453 00:15:59,304 --> 00:16:01,004 accuracy for feature identification, 454 00:16:01,705 --> 00:16:03,784 and that's something that we're selling today. And 455 00:16:03,784 --> 00:16:05,784 so lots of companies are very keen to 456 00:16:05,784 --> 00:16:08,125 increase the accuracy of their classical machine learning. 457 00:16:08,319 --> 00:16:10,159 Right. And you also won that award. Was 458 00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:11,440 it Australian of the Year a few years 459 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,079 ago? Have there been any other Australians of 460 00:16:13,079 --> 00:16:15,199 the Year on Helgoland, do you think? I've 461 00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:18,019 never thought about that. It's an interesting concept. 462 00:16:18,559 --> 00:16:21,184 I would doubt it, but who knows? Who 463 00:16:21,184 --> 00:16:23,504 knows? So any final thoughts before we finish? 464 00:16:23,825 --> 00:16:25,985 What's your, what's your vision for the future 465 00:16:25,985 --> 00:16:26,644 of Quantela? 466 00:16:27,424 --> 00:16:29,764 Yeah. Look. I I have actually been reflecting 467 00:16:30,065 --> 00:16:31,664 whilst I've been here, and I think one 468 00:16:31,664 --> 00:16:32,940 of the things that I 469 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:35,100 feel more and more as I get older 470 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:37,500 is the ability to separate yourself from the 471 00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:39,980 herd and to think independently and get away 472 00:16:39,980 --> 00:16:41,419 from things every now and again is quite 473 00:16:41,419 --> 00:16:42,320 vital. So 474 00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:44,860 having walked around this island, I've got the 475 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:47,524 sense that that's probably what Heisenberg did when 476 00:16:47,524 --> 00:16:49,445 he came here. So he basically detached from 477 00:16:49,445 --> 00:16:50,904 the rest of the world to have clear 478 00:16:51,285 --> 00:16:53,445 clear thoughts. And so yeah. So as a 479 00:16:53,445 --> 00:16:54,904 physicist, it's very, 480 00:16:55,684 --> 00:16:57,925 it's very compelling to work with others. That's 481 00:16:57,925 --> 00:16:59,925 a great way to expand the knowledge of 482 00:16:59,925 --> 00:17:02,799 yourself. But fundamentally, learning is an individual thing. 483 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:04,799 And so deep learning and spending time by 484 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:07,039 yourself really reflecting on what you know and 485 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:08,400 what are the challenges ahead, I think, is 486 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,380 quite quite important. 487 00:17:09,759 --> 00:17:11,599 Very profound. We'll we'll finish there. Thank you, 488 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:12,099 Michelle. 489 00:17:20,095 --> 00:17:22,575 Peter Zoller is my name. So I'm a 490 00:17:22,575 --> 00:17:24,674 professor, actually, now emeritus professor 491 00:17:25,049 --> 00:17:27,210 at the University of Innsbruck and also at 492 00:17:27,210 --> 00:17:28,830 the Austrian Academy of Sciences. 493 00:17:29,370 --> 00:17:31,289 We have a quantum institute that's called the 494 00:17:31,289 --> 00:17:33,850 Institute for Quantum Objects and Quantum Information in 495 00:17:33,850 --> 00:17:34,990 Innsbruck in Austria. 496 00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:38,090 And, we're here at, the Helgoland meeting. Is 497 00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:39,630 this your first visit to Helgoland? 498 00:17:39,974 --> 00:17:42,454 It is my first visit to Helgoland, and 499 00:17:42,454 --> 00:17:43,974 I always wanted to have, you know, a 500 00:17:43,974 --> 00:17:44,474 pilgrimage 501 00:17:44,775 --> 00:17:45,515 to Heisenberg's, 502 00:17:46,934 --> 00:17:49,335 place where he invented quantum mechanics. Yeah. It's 503 00:17:49,335 --> 00:17:50,934 the first time here. Did you go and 504 00:17:50,934 --> 00:17:53,414 visit his, the little plaque where he, is 505 00:17:53,414 --> 00:17:56,460 honored? I saw that, took my photograph, and, 506 00:17:56,460 --> 00:17:58,659 you know, that's right. And, of course, you 507 00:17:58,659 --> 00:18:00,359 know, wrote it there. I know it's it's 508 00:18:00,819 --> 00:18:02,599 a sight. You know? Peter was here. 509 00:18:03,379 --> 00:18:05,299 Did you feel any inspiration for it? Was 510 00:18:05,299 --> 00:18:06,679 it a sort of profound moment 511 00:18:06,980 --> 00:18:09,285 going there? I'm still I'm still waiting for 512 00:18:09,285 --> 00:18:11,684 that, but, who knows? Maybe, you know, after 513 00:18:11,684 --> 00:18:13,365 my talk or after my panel, 514 00:18:13,765 --> 00:18:16,325 participation then. So, yeah, you're talking the panel, 515 00:18:16,325 --> 00:18:17,605 which is tomorrow, actually, 516 00:18:18,164 --> 00:18:20,345 the future the next hundred years of quantum 517 00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:23,400 physics, which sounds really ambitious. What what points 518 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,940 are you going to make in the debate? 519 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,759 Okay. So, we sort of discussed inside of 520 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:30,759 the panel how we distribute and our our 521 00:18:30,759 --> 00:18:32,680 contributions, and I will talk about the future 522 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,279 of quantum information. And, 523 00:18:35,505 --> 00:18:37,105 of course, I mean, the main statements will 524 00:18:37,105 --> 00:18:38,705 be, and I really believe that it's a 525 00:18:38,705 --> 00:18:41,265 little bit black and white that, no, that 526 00:18:41,265 --> 00:18:42,785 I think we are not too far away 527 00:18:42,785 --> 00:18:44,884 from building fault tolerant quantum computers. 528 00:18:46,144 --> 00:18:47,744 This will come. The question is to know 529 00:18:47,744 --> 00:18:49,265 how big we can make them and how 530 00:18:49,265 --> 00:18:51,059 we can scale them up and all that. 531 00:18:51,059 --> 00:18:52,039 This will be technical 532 00:18:53,059 --> 00:18:55,380 developments. This will sort of proceed in different 533 00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:57,859 thresholds and so on, but it will come. 534 00:18:58,019 --> 00:18:59,539 This is for me very clear. And I 535 00:18:59,539 --> 00:19:01,634 think that this will open new doors and 536 00:19:02,195 --> 00:19:04,035 will also, I guess, open new doors. That's 537 00:19:04,035 --> 00:19:06,035 sort of my second statement in this context 538 00:19:06,035 --> 00:19:08,195 that I think that a lot of the 539 00:19:08,195 --> 00:19:10,515 qubits that will have logical qubits, you know, 540 00:19:10,515 --> 00:19:11,954 many of them, at the end of the 541 00:19:11,954 --> 00:19:13,494 day, they will become cheap. 542 00:19:13,890 --> 00:19:15,490 And, also, at the moment, we have all 543 00:19:15,490 --> 00:19:18,210 of this discussion. Quantum information processing is very 544 00:19:18,210 --> 00:19:20,690 expensive, but we have quantum advantage. Can we 545 00:19:20,690 --> 00:19:21,190 demonstrate? 546 00:19:21,809 --> 00:19:24,049 But at the point where qubits, fault tolerant 547 00:19:24,049 --> 00:19:26,529 qubits become cheap, you know, then it's a 548 00:19:26,529 --> 00:19:29,085 complete game changer. And many things that we 549 00:19:29,085 --> 00:19:30,924 are doing today, you know, in the classical 550 00:19:30,924 --> 00:19:33,484 context, in the quantum context, we know it 551 00:19:33,484 --> 00:19:35,404 can be done better. But once it becomes 552 00:19:35,404 --> 00:19:37,085 cheap to do quantum, you know, then this 553 00:19:37,085 --> 00:19:39,424 is sort of another threshold to this context. 554 00:19:39,964 --> 00:19:42,045 Do you have a def definition for cheap? 555 00:19:42,045 --> 00:19:42,605 What do you, 556 00:19:43,450 --> 00:19:44,269 compare that to? 557 00:19:44,650 --> 00:19:46,730 Well, I would say cheap's very similar what 558 00:19:46,730 --> 00:19:48,650 we saw in, for example, classical computing. You 559 00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:50,650 know, I still remember when I bought my 560 00:19:50,650 --> 00:19:53,049 first laptop or or Apple computer, how much 561 00:19:53,049 --> 00:19:54,730 money I put down. You know? I went 562 00:19:54,730 --> 00:19:57,070 to BMW to work for the whole summer, 563 00:19:57,684 --> 00:19:59,845 cleaning in the factory, but not whole summer, 564 00:19:59,845 --> 00:20:02,085 three weeks or whatever it was, and making 565 00:20:02,085 --> 00:20:03,865 some money. And then I bought myself, 566 00:20:04,484 --> 00:20:06,965 just a Hewlett Packard calculator, you know, that 567 00:20:06,965 --> 00:20:09,205 could I could program 128 568 00:20:09,205 --> 00:20:09,569 steps, 569 00:20:11,089 --> 00:20:13,169 later on, you know, buying again from sort 570 00:20:13,169 --> 00:20:14,690 of money that I earned over the summer 571 00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:16,690 as a student and the first computer, first 572 00:20:16,690 --> 00:20:17,829 laptop. And so, 573 00:20:18,450 --> 00:20:20,369 today, these things are cheap and all relative 574 00:20:20,369 --> 00:20:21,970 to the salaries that we have. And so 575 00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:24,230 I would expect that Quanta will also become 576 00:20:24,525 --> 00:20:25,884 cheap at one point and all in a 577 00:20:25,884 --> 00:20:28,705 very similar way. Yeah. What sort of, applications 578 00:20:28,765 --> 00:20:30,924 do you foresee being used over the next 579 00:20:30,924 --> 00:20:31,744 hundred years? 580 00:20:32,445 --> 00:20:33,724 I think that this is sort of the 581 00:20:33,724 --> 00:20:36,125 main bottleneck that we have in this, quantum 582 00:20:36,125 --> 00:20:38,849 computing or quantum information context that, I mean, 583 00:20:38,849 --> 00:20:40,470 Ike Chuang here at the meeting 584 00:20:40,930 --> 00:20:42,529 made a strong statement. He said that, you 585 00:20:42,529 --> 00:20:44,690 know, we are sort of progressing and being 586 00:20:44,690 --> 00:20:46,470 able to do all of these things, but 587 00:20:46,769 --> 00:20:49,089 we have not really very much advanced in 588 00:20:49,089 --> 00:20:51,730 terms of finding applications of quantum computing where 589 00:20:51,730 --> 00:20:53,329 we can claim that this will be of 590 00:20:53,329 --> 00:20:53,595 an 591 00:20:54,554 --> 00:20:55,375 social economic 592 00:20:55,755 --> 00:20:57,914 benefit and so on that, you know, companies 593 00:20:57,914 --> 00:20:59,615 at the end have to make money. And, 594 00:20:59,835 --> 00:21:01,595 of course, there will be these things will 595 00:21:01,595 --> 00:21:03,835 be funded by military, but at the end, 596 00:21:03,835 --> 00:21:06,015 you know, you won't would like to identify 597 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:09,200 applications. And, I see a lot of, you 598 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,660 know, applications that, 599 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,779 that are sort of, you know, one side. 600 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,240 You know, these quantum computers that we will 601 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,019 produce a new quantum technology. 602 00:21:18,414 --> 00:21:20,575 I'm very excited about bringing them back into 603 00:21:20,575 --> 00:21:22,494 physics. You know? They will be the basis, 604 00:21:22,494 --> 00:21:24,914 like, in the context of quantum sensing, and 605 00:21:25,055 --> 00:21:27,055 I could list here many examples in this 606 00:21:27,055 --> 00:21:28,815 context, you know, that will allow us to 607 00:21:28,815 --> 00:21:30,035 discover new physics. 608 00:21:30,509 --> 00:21:32,830 So I see new technologies as a door 609 00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:35,309 to find to making fundamental discoveries on the 610 00:21:35,309 --> 00:21:36,130 physics side. 611 00:21:36,670 --> 00:21:38,190 Kind of saying the obvious, but I think 612 00:21:38,190 --> 00:21:40,109 it will be true here. And, you know, 613 00:21:40,109 --> 00:21:42,509 these things about gravity that we're hearing here, 614 00:21:42,509 --> 00:21:43,330 you know, like, 615 00:21:43,734 --> 00:21:46,375 you we have quantum communication. You know? There 616 00:21:46,375 --> 00:21:49,414 will be quantum sensing networks based on have 617 00:21:49,414 --> 00:21:51,494 you learned how to do quantum communication and 618 00:21:51,494 --> 00:21:53,434 getting entanglement over large distances? 619 00:21:53,815 --> 00:21:55,734 There will be quantum sensors, you know, in 620 00:21:55,734 --> 00:21:57,660 a new way. This will be a new 621 00:21:57,799 --> 00:22:00,359 interface to, for example, gravity. Talk about, you 622 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:01,740 know, classical GR 623 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,339 and provide new, 624 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,359 measurements, you know, new instruments for measurements. And 625 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,200 at the end, I think something very interesting 626 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,339 will come out because 627 00:22:09,704 --> 00:22:11,704 even more, at least, atomic physics had a 628 00:22:11,704 --> 00:22:14,265 very long tradition and, you know, high precision 629 00:22:14,265 --> 00:22:16,345 measurements. Think about the lamp shift. You know? 630 00:22:16,345 --> 00:22:18,424 It was technology of microwave in the in 631 00:22:18,424 --> 00:22:21,085 the second World War then applied to spectroscopy. 632 00:22:21,384 --> 00:22:22,984 We discovered the lamp shift. So it will 633 00:22:22,984 --> 00:22:24,744 be very similar over here, at least I 634 00:22:24,744 --> 00:22:26,720 expect. So that it will be this is 635 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,440 a door opener for fundamental discovery. It also 636 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,379 meant there's many applications in science. 637 00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:34,240 On the other hand, you know, industry, as 638 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,179 I said, you know, wants to make money, 639 00:22:36,639 --> 00:22:38,639 on one hand, building a quantum computer, on 640 00:22:38,639 --> 00:22:40,304 the other hand, also then, you know, 641 00:22:40,944 --> 00:22:43,204 solving useful problems for society. 642 00:22:43,984 --> 00:22:46,784 And, you know, one obvious statement has always 643 00:22:46,784 --> 00:22:48,625 been that, you would like to do, for 644 00:22:48,625 --> 00:22:52,384 example, quantum simulation for drug discovery or chemistry 645 00:22:52,384 --> 00:22:54,724 and all of these things, quantum material design. 646 00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:57,390 So tomorrow, we'll make a a brief statement 647 00:22:57,390 --> 00:22:58,990 about things that we're working on at the 648 00:22:58,990 --> 00:23:01,150 moment where we are doing what we call 649 00:23:01,150 --> 00:23:04,430 inverse quantum simulation, where we write down we're 650 00:23:04,430 --> 00:23:06,589 sort of doing quantum material design on a 651 00:23:06,589 --> 00:23:08,750 quantum computer by writing down the list of 652 00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:10,845 properties. You know? We encode them in a 653 00:23:10,845 --> 00:23:12,525 cost function that we solve in a quantum 654 00:23:12,525 --> 00:23:14,365 computer, and what comes out at the end 655 00:23:14,365 --> 00:23:16,445 is the Hamiltonian that generates this thing as 656 00:23:16,445 --> 00:23:18,065 the ground set or is an approximate 657 00:23:18,445 --> 00:23:20,045 ground set. And so this becomes in a 658 00:23:20,045 --> 00:23:20,865 way of doing 659 00:23:21,164 --> 00:23:24,365 material design. And, this looks actually very promising 660 00:23:24,365 --> 00:23:26,210 and it's a very constructive way 661 00:23:26,509 --> 00:23:27,730 of, you know, designing 662 00:23:28,029 --> 00:23:30,509 this particular case materials or the molecules or 663 00:23:30,509 --> 00:23:33,269 whatever, you know, that have desired properties. And 664 00:23:33,269 --> 00:23:35,410 I think it's a beautiful application, and, 665 00:23:36,029 --> 00:23:38,589 we have to search for ideas along, these 666 00:23:38,589 --> 00:23:41,215 slides. So So it's interesting you say new 667 00:23:41,355 --> 00:23:44,394 advances in technology can feedback and create new 668 00:23:44,394 --> 00:23:45,535 fundamental discoveries. 669 00:23:47,275 --> 00:23:49,115 Have you got some examples about where that's 670 00:23:49,115 --> 00:23:51,835 happened in recent years? Well, in recent year, 671 00:23:51,835 --> 00:23:53,595 examples that happened in the past in the 672 00:23:53,595 --> 00:23:55,200 recent years, well, I would say that, 673 00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:57,759 maybe not at the level of now quantum 674 00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:00,079 computing coming back because quantum computing is a 675 00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,399 whole new paradigm. But, you know, if you 676 00:24:02,399 --> 00:24:04,079 look at the development of the laser, you 677 00:24:04,079 --> 00:24:05,839 know, that the at the very beginning was 678 00:24:05,839 --> 00:24:07,679 just, you know, a coherent light source, and 679 00:24:07,679 --> 00:24:09,825 we learned how to stabilize these things. And 680 00:24:09,904 --> 00:24:11,424 when you listen here to the talk by, 681 00:24:11,424 --> 00:24:12,565 for example, Junier 682 00:24:12,944 --> 00:24:13,424 on, 683 00:24:13,744 --> 00:24:16,384 on atomic clocks, you know, that measures now 684 00:24:16,384 --> 00:24:18,404 time accurate to 21 digits. 685 00:24:18,784 --> 00:24:20,304 I mean, this is just amazing. And this 686 00:24:20,304 --> 00:24:22,144 was sort of one example where sort of 687 00:24:22,144 --> 00:24:23,764 there was this interplay between 688 00:24:24,150 --> 00:24:27,029 technology, developing the proper laser, then doing very 689 00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:29,450 fundamental science, which we're building now, 690 00:24:29,910 --> 00:24:31,990 when we build, for example, quantum computers. So 691 00:24:32,869 --> 00:24:35,269 And, you've also been involved in that company, 692 00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:37,269 AQT. Are you still closely involved in that 693 00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:39,029 on the you know, you're helping to run 694 00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:39,690 that company? 695 00:24:40,174 --> 00:24:41,934 Well, I'm sort of in the the second 696 00:24:41,934 --> 00:24:43,694 row, I have to admit, to this company, 697 00:24:43,694 --> 00:24:45,454 so I'm not directly involved in all of 698 00:24:45,454 --> 00:24:47,054 that. But, of course, I talk a lot 699 00:24:47,054 --> 00:24:48,894 to my colleagues, you know, like Rainer Platt 700 00:24:48,894 --> 00:24:51,134 and Thomas Muntz, who are doing these things. 701 00:24:51,134 --> 00:24:53,779 And, yeah, we have sometimes discussions about where 702 00:24:53,779 --> 00:24:55,539 things are going. And I if my opinion 703 00:24:55,539 --> 00:24:56,359 is a theorist, 704 00:24:57,299 --> 00:24:59,299 very often they have their own opinions, you 705 00:24:59,299 --> 00:25:00,980 know, companies to make money as we said 706 00:25:00,980 --> 00:25:01,480 before. 707 00:25:01,940 --> 00:25:02,339 And, 708 00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:05,460 companies also have to identify certain niches where 709 00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:06,980 they belong. You know? There's a lot of 710 00:25:06,980 --> 00:25:08,365 competition, a lot of startups, 711 00:25:08,664 --> 00:25:10,664 and you have to identify, though, where, for 712 00:25:10,664 --> 00:25:12,525 example, a trapped icon to computer 713 00:25:13,065 --> 00:25:15,625 has unique advantages when it leads to other 714 00:25:15,625 --> 00:25:17,625 possibilities. And there's a lot of companies out 715 00:25:17,625 --> 00:25:19,465 there that have quite a lot of money 716 00:25:19,465 --> 00:25:20,285 for the development. 717 00:25:20,809 --> 00:25:22,970 So you have to identify your corner where 718 00:25:22,970 --> 00:25:24,809 you're the king. Okay? And I think that 719 00:25:24,809 --> 00:25:26,970 this, this can be done. Yeah. Now here 720 00:25:26,970 --> 00:25:28,490 at Helgoland, there have been all sorts of 721 00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:30,089 different talks on all sorts of different areas. 722 00:25:30,089 --> 00:25:31,529 Have there been any ones that you found 723 00:25:31,529 --> 00:25:34,349 particularly interesting or where you've learned something new? 724 00:25:35,255 --> 00:25:36,615 Well, I can list the, 725 00:25:37,095 --> 00:25:38,775 many talks here that I got very excited 726 00:25:38,775 --> 00:25:39,975 about. I mean, I have to say that, 727 00:25:40,215 --> 00:25:42,855 many of the experimental talks were very exciting 728 00:25:42,855 --> 00:25:45,095 for me because they point out the different 729 00:25:45,095 --> 00:25:46,934 platforms. There was a lot here about nano 730 00:25:46,934 --> 00:25:49,414 mechanics, this interface with gravity, like the last 731 00:25:49,414 --> 00:25:50,430 talk that you just 732 00:25:50,910 --> 00:25:51,470 heard now, 733 00:25:51,869 --> 00:25:53,710 here, you know, that was on on on 734 00:25:53,710 --> 00:25:55,730 on gravity and being able to be nanomechanics 735 00:25:56,029 --> 00:25:59,170 to probe fundamental physics along these lines. 736 00:25:59,630 --> 00:26:01,549 And, I think that this is where the 737 00:26:01,549 --> 00:26:03,630 field is developing. And, of course, I'm thinking 738 00:26:03,630 --> 00:26:05,234 now these things in terms of the system 739 00:26:05,234 --> 00:26:07,474 I'm interested in, like, you know, you make 740 00:26:07,474 --> 00:26:09,954 large scale networks of quantum sensors to do 741 00:26:09,954 --> 00:26:12,035 these kind of things. So as the theorist, 742 00:26:12,035 --> 00:26:14,434 the goal is always to identify important problems, 743 00:26:14,434 --> 00:26:16,855 but also see what the experimental developments are 744 00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:20,090 and extrapolating these experimental developments into the future. 745 00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:22,170 You know what, five years down the road, 746 00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:24,329 the experimentalist might be able to do. And 747 00:26:24,329 --> 00:26:26,570 this is then the door opener to completely 748 00:26:26,570 --> 00:26:28,570 new things that are could be game changers. 749 00:26:28,570 --> 00:26:30,835 You know? And this is so picking up, 750 00:26:30,835 --> 00:26:33,394 you know, the progress, picking up interesting topics, 751 00:26:33,394 --> 00:26:35,554 and I would say gravity was a very 752 00:26:35,554 --> 00:26:38,515 strong point of this conference here. Yeah. And, 753 00:26:38,835 --> 00:26:40,355 how active are you still in research? Are 754 00:26:40,355 --> 00:26:42,035 you still doing plenty of research? Are you 755 00:26:42,035 --> 00:26:44,194 almost full time still even though you're normally 756 00:26:44,194 --> 00:26:44,694 retired? 757 00:26:45,099 --> 00:26:46,940 Well, I'm formally retired, but I have to 758 00:26:46,940 --> 00:26:48,940 admit that I go every day to under 759 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:50,480 cold work, you know, and, 760 00:26:50,940 --> 00:26:52,460 while I'm not allowed to have my own 761 00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:54,539 group anymore, what I do have is that 762 00:26:54,539 --> 00:26:55,980 I have access to some of the other 763 00:26:55,980 --> 00:26:57,899 graduate students from some of the other groups. 764 00:26:57,899 --> 00:26:59,440 I discuss with them. And so, 765 00:27:00,095 --> 00:27:01,855 to the extent that I have interesting ideas, 766 00:27:01,855 --> 00:27:03,295 they also want to listen to me. And 767 00:27:03,295 --> 00:27:05,455 so, yeah, I'm I'm still involved in these 768 00:27:05,455 --> 00:27:05,955 things. 769 00:27:06,335 --> 00:27:08,174 Not like having your own group where you 770 00:27:08,174 --> 00:27:10,174 could always, you know, decide. Okay. Let's do 771 00:27:10,174 --> 00:27:11,910 this thing now and not and not that, 772 00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:14,869 but still on the level where I think 773 00:27:14,869 --> 00:27:16,710 it's interesting. So as long as I have 774 00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:19,349 interesting ideas and I can convince some students 775 00:27:19,349 --> 00:27:21,029 to know that these ideas are interesting and 776 00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:21,690 some postdocs, 777 00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:24,410 you know, they will be collaborators. 778 00:27:24,865 --> 00:27:26,384 So if you were a young student today, 779 00:27:26,384 --> 00:27:28,065 what field would you go into? Would you 780 00:27:28,065 --> 00:27:29,664 stay in quantum physics? And if so, you 781 00:27:29,664 --> 00:27:31,284 know, which area would you go into? 782 00:27:32,625 --> 00:27:34,704 Well, maybe I would say now the obvious. 783 00:27:34,704 --> 00:27:36,704 I mean, quantum physics is now the point 784 00:27:36,704 --> 00:27:39,009 which has changed a lot relative to when 785 00:27:39,009 --> 00:27:40,850 I entered. You know, I decided all of 786 00:27:40,850 --> 00:27:43,830 this quantum computing ideas and business and developing 787 00:27:44,369 --> 00:27:46,609 hardware with atoms and ions and so on. 788 00:27:46,609 --> 00:27:48,049 This was in the middle of the nineties, 789 00:27:48,049 --> 00:27:50,130 and there was then, you know, a very 790 00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:52,609 fruitful period of about maybe ten years where 791 00:27:52,609 --> 00:27:54,125 we came up with a lot of theoretical 792 00:27:54,184 --> 00:27:54,684 ideas. 793 00:27:55,705 --> 00:27:57,865 Today, many of these ideas are reality in 794 00:27:57,865 --> 00:27:58,525 the lab 795 00:27:59,065 --> 00:28:01,144 and sort of, you know, things are changing 796 00:28:01,144 --> 00:28:02,984 now in the sense that, you know, we 797 00:28:02,984 --> 00:28:04,904 thought a lot about hardware, how to build 798 00:28:04,904 --> 00:28:06,265 it, and, you know, how to make it 799 00:28:06,265 --> 00:28:07,945 perfect and what could be done, how to 800 00:28:07,945 --> 00:28:08,445 entangle, 801 00:28:08,779 --> 00:28:10,220 and how these things are here. But we 802 00:28:10,220 --> 00:28:11,819 also had a vision what we wanted to 803 00:28:11,819 --> 00:28:13,579 do with this kind of devices, you know, 804 00:28:13,579 --> 00:28:15,500 like, quantum computing, what problems we want to 805 00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:18,539 solve, like, many body problems for quantum simulation, 806 00:28:18,539 --> 00:28:21,259 whatever it may be. And today is very 807 00:28:21,259 --> 00:28:23,179 fascinating for me. This is somehow a game 808 00:28:23,179 --> 00:28:24,559 changer, and the young 809 00:28:24,964 --> 00:28:27,384 generation finds itself confronted with 810 00:28:27,684 --> 00:28:29,445 that. That, you know, we wrote a lot 811 00:28:29,445 --> 00:28:31,285 of theory papers that it took five years, 812 00:28:31,285 --> 00:28:32,884 maybe even ten years for this thing to 813 00:28:32,884 --> 00:28:33,705 become reality, 814 00:28:34,244 --> 00:28:35,945 in the in the lab because they experimentally 815 00:28:36,085 --> 00:28:38,184 said to start at zero, it really work. 816 00:28:38,380 --> 00:28:40,640 Now these machines exist, and they are programmable 817 00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:43,419 machines. So this means that we can take 818 00:28:43,419 --> 00:28:45,579 our ideas off and just go to these 819 00:28:45,579 --> 00:28:47,659 machines and program these things directly. And, 820 00:28:48,380 --> 00:28:50,535 yeah, we just throw the paper together with, 821 00:28:50,535 --> 00:28:52,535 for example, Queva, you know, the the the 822 00:28:52,535 --> 00:28:54,234 company of of Michelukin, 823 00:28:55,174 --> 00:28:55,914 and so on, 824 00:28:56,455 --> 00:28:57,195 at Harvard, 825 00:28:57,575 --> 00:28:58,075 MIT. 826 00:28:58,695 --> 00:29:00,775 And, we wrote a paper together. It came 827 00:29:00,775 --> 00:29:02,455 out in Nature last week, you know, on 828 00:29:02,455 --> 00:29:04,855 simulating lattice gauge theories. You know, this was 829 00:29:04,855 --> 00:29:07,130 just an outcome like that. It's an interesting 830 00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:09,190 problem. We sort of see how to implement 831 00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:10,250 it on these machines, 832 00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:12,470 and then, well, there's a machine available. And 833 00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:14,470 then you work together, and it takes some 834 00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:15,670 time. You know, it took two and a 835 00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:17,589 half years, but in the end, it's a 836 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:20,695 positive outcome. You know? Very exciting. Yeah. Mhmm. 837 00:29:21,555 --> 00:29:22,914 There were one or two rumbles at the 838 00:29:22,914 --> 00:29:25,075 conference about the fact that there are two 839 00:29:25,075 --> 00:29:27,154 sponsors from the US military. Does that bother 840 00:29:27,154 --> 00:29:28,275 you at all? Do you have any view 841 00:29:28,275 --> 00:29:28,855 on that? 842 00:29:30,115 --> 00:29:31,875 Well, I would say that, you know, being 843 00:29:31,875 --> 00:29:33,715 physics sort of got used that in The 844 00:29:33,715 --> 00:29:35,559 US, this is very different in Europe. 845 00:29:36,259 --> 00:29:38,359 I know the military are sort of funding 846 00:29:38,420 --> 00:29:40,740 basic science. I think there is maybe a 847 00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:41,140 more 848 00:29:41,539 --> 00:29:43,859 a tradition that is, you know, based on 849 00:29:43,859 --> 00:29:46,660 how science was done emerging then after the 850 00:29:46,660 --> 00:29:47,720 second World War. 851 00:29:48,234 --> 00:29:49,835 So I would say that this is something 852 00:29:49,914 --> 00:29:52,414 it's just maybe more cultural in The US. 853 00:29:52,474 --> 00:29:54,414 I would not take it too seriously, 854 00:29:55,115 --> 00:29:56,714 but I would say that the situation that 855 00:29:56,714 --> 00:29:57,994 we have in Europe, where we have a 856 00:29:57,994 --> 00:30:00,234 very clear distinction, you know, basic science is 857 00:30:00,234 --> 00:30:02,394 funded by the government, by some National Science 858 00:30:02,394 --> 00:30:02,894 Foundation, 859 00:30:03,539 --> 00:30:05,539 and and not by the military, you know, 860 00:30:05,539 --> 00:30:06,740 that this is distinct. 861 00:30:07,059 --> 00:30:07,380 But, 862 00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:09,940 I'm I don't want to criticize my American 863 00:30:09,940 --> 00:30:11,160 friends for that. You know? 864 00:30:11,460 --> 00:30:13,460 But I'm happy that we had a different 865 00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:15,380 situation here. So if we came back to 866 00:30:15,380 --> 00:30:17,779 Holderland in, 2125, 867 00:30:17,779 --> 00:30:19,454 how would you sort of see the quantum 868 00:30:19,454 --> 00:30:20,734 world? What would be on the two hundredth 869 00:30:20,734 --> 00:30:23,295 anniversary of quantum mechanics conference? Have you organizing 870 00:30:23,295 --> 00:30:23,795 it? 871 00:30:24,335 --> 00:30:24,835 Oh, 872 00:30:25,775 --> 00:30:27,454 well, I think the exciting thing is that 873 00:30:27,454 --> 00:30:29,214 we don't know, and we, you know, it 874 00:30:29,214 --> 00:30:31,054 will be much more exciting than we think 875 00:30:31,054 --> 00:30:32,275 right now. And, 876 00:30:33,539 --> 00:30:35,779 I don't know. Maybe this fundamental problem of, 877 00:30:35,779 --> 00:30:38,099 you know, interface of quantum and gravity will 878 00:30:38,099 --> 00:30:38,899 be solved. You know? 879 00:30:39,940 --> 00:30:41,539 I have a little bit doubt about, you 880 00:30:41,539 --> 00:30:42,440 know, understanding 881 00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:44,819 more. There was a lot of discussion here 882 00:30:44,819 --> 00:30:47,140 about foundations that I find interesting, but I 883 00:30:47,140 --> 00:30:49,674 don't work on this myself. Like, the measurement 884 00:30:49,674 --> 00:30:51,355 problem and so on, it seems to be 885 00:30:51,355 --> 00:30:53,835 very hard to make progress. And I believe 886 00:30:53,835 --> 00:30:55,595 progress in physics is made at the end 887 00:30:55,595 --> 00:30:56,654 by doing experiments, 888 00:30:56,955 --> 00:30:58,955 you know, building apparatus that allow to do 889 00:30:58,955 --> 00:31:00,095 new kind of experiments. 890 00:31:00,555 --> 00:31:02,170 And these are then the ones that at 891 00:31:02,170 --> 00:31:04,009 the end, you know, surprise us by new 892 00:31:04,009 --> 00:31:05,390 results. And once we have 893 00:31:05,690 --> 00:31:08,009 experimental evidence in whatever sense, you know, this 894 00:31:08,009 --> 00:31:09,390 is guiding our 895 00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:12,650 our understanding and our our development of theory 896 00:31:12,650 --> 00:31:14,730 and, you know, it's sort of the next 897 00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:17,045 step. Yeah. I always find it remarkable to 898 00:31:17,045 --> 00:31:19,365 think that Heisenberg was 23 when he did 899 00:31:19,365 --> 00:31:20,884 all that amazing work. You know, is there 900 00:31:20,884 --> 00:31:22,884 is there still an open field for young 901 00:31:22,884 --> 00:31:24,984 people to do those kind of big breakthroughs 902 00:31:25,045 --> 00:31:25,865 that he had? 903 00:31:26,164 --> 00:31:28,259 Well, I would say that, you know, 904 00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:30,660 at the time of Heisenberg, Heisenberg was, of 905 00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:32,180 course, I mean, one hand very clever, and 906 00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:33,559 the other hand, he was very lucky 907 00:31:33,940 --> 00:31:35,559 because, you know, in the physics, 908 00:31:35,940 --> 00:31:38,099 there's often periods, and I would say that 909 00:31:38,099 --> 00:31:39,940 the creation of quantum mechanics was one of 910 00:31:39,940 --> 00:31:42,275 them, where there was sort of a problem 911 00:31:42,275 --> 00:31:44,515 was was was ripe to be solved, you 912 00:31:44,515 --> 00:31:46,914 know, ready to be solved. And the most 913 00:31:46,914 --> 00:31:48,994 clever people, you know, that just were there 914 00:31:48,994 --> 00:31:50,674 at that time, you know, they were they 915 00:31:50,674 --> 00:31:52,994 made the seminal contribution within a few years. 916 00:31:52,994 --> 00:31:56,480 Think about Schrodinger who you know? And, again, 917 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,480 it was '25, I think, in December, and 918 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,880 I also wrote down the Schrodinger equation, solved 919 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,220 the hydrogen problem, and all then found afterwards, 920 00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:06,000 well, that his wave mechanics was equivalent to 921 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,839 matrix mechanics. So there was a lot of 922 00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:10,535 clever people around, but there was also problems 923 00:32:10,535 --> 00:32:12,694 that are ready to be solved. And, this 924 00:32:12,694 --> 00:32:14,775 does not always happen. Not to say that 925 00:32:14,775 --> 00:32:17,575 I myself considered to be very lucky because, 926 00:32:17,575 --> 00:32:19,494 you know, I was working on quantum optics 927 00:32:19,494 --> 00:32:21,894 at dummy physics at the time where, well, 928 00:32:21,894 --> 00:32:23,115 it was kind of interesting. 929 00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:25,369 But then quantum computing came along, and, you 930 00:32:25,369 --> 00:32:27,849 know, we were just had our tools ready, 931 00:32:27,849 --> 00:32:29,150 our ideas ready. 932 00:32:29,769 --> 00:32:31,609 You know, and, like, if you'd look at 933 00:32:31,609 --> 00:32:33,609 trapped ion quantum computing, you know, we were 934 00:32:33,609 --> 00:32:35,369 working on that before. We just didn't know 935 00:32:35,369 --> 00:32:37,690 that you would also access your computer. It'd 936 00:32:37,690 --> 00:32:39,835 be very interesting. You know? So very often 937 00:32:39,835 --> 00:32:41,194 you work on something and you're sort of 938 00:32:41,194 --> 00:32:42,894 surprised. Well, this is actually 939 00:32:43,194 --> 00:32:45,355 looking from a different angle, much more interesting 940 00:32:45,355 --> 00:32:47,115 than I ever thought. So this element of 941 00:32:47,115 --> 00:32:49,835 being lucky and surprising and but also having 942 00:32:49,835 --> 00:32:51,835 the right discussion partners and going to the 943 00:32:51,835 --> 00:32:53,595 right conferences like, yeah, I know it can 944 00:32:53,595 --> 00:32:54,255 be the 945 00:32:54,779 --> 00:32:56,240 the insider for that. 946 00:32:56,619 --> 00:32:58,299 I was just sort of a a final 947 00:32:58,299 --> 00:32:59,900 question. If you could imagine going back in 948 00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:01,660 time, if would there be any figures from 949 00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:03,420 the early years of quantum physics that you'd 950 00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:05,340 like to meet? And what would you ask 951 00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:06,779 them if you had the choice to meet 952 00:33:06,779 --> 00:33:07,759 one of those people? 953 00:33:08,585 --> 00:33:10,904 Well, it's interesting for us when we start 954 00:33:10,904 --> 00:33:12,585 reading some of these old papers, you know, 955 00:33:12,585 --> 00:33:14,424 most of them still written in German and 956 00:33:14,424 --> 00:33:16,125 always has changed some time later, 957 00:33:17,065 --> 00:33:19,545 that, it would be very interesting to discuss 958 00:33:19,545 --> 00:33:21,305 them. And, like, for example, being here and 959 00:33:21,305 --> 00:33:22,125 asking Heisenberg 960 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:22,940 and 961 00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:25,000 how he really saw these things. I know 962 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,179 very often in in in in retrospect, 963 00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:28,859 these stories, this history, 964 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:30,700 I mean, is somehow, 965 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,399 written then in a certain way, which is 966 00:33:33,399 --> 00:33:35,240 maybe not 100% how it happened. I think 967 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,240 there were much more fluctuations and sort of 968 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,095 uncertainties. And Heisenberg, on one hand, was a 969 00:33:40,095 --> 00:33:41,775 genius. On the other hand, if you read 970 00:33:41,775 --> 00:33:42,674 his first paper, 971 00:33:43,055 --> 00:33:44,335 I was saying, how the hell did he 972 00:33:44,335 --> 00:33:46,095 ever write these things down? And how could 973 00:33:46,095 --> 00:33:47,775 out of this thing then emerge something that 974 00:33:47,775 --> 00:33:49,775 was so fundamental and they'd be working on 975 00:33:49,775 --> 00:33:50,275 today 976 00:33:50,575 --> 00:33:53,134 and which is experimentally confirmed on all these 977 00:33:53,134 --> 00:33:55,670 levels. So, yeah, I'd very much like to 978 00:33:55,670 --> 00:33:57,830 talk to these people. Yeah. So may maybe 979 00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:59,849 Heisenberg. Well, because I would be really fascinated. 980 00:33:59,910 --> 00:34:01,589 You know, he came here with just a 981 00:34:01,589 --> 00:34:03,990 pen and paper, no Yeah. No Internet and 982 00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:06,630 no phone, no television, no computing, and he 983 00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:08,574 did all that work with just nothing, just 984 00:34:08,574 --> 00:34:09,934 coming on his own. It's just, you know, 985 00:34:09,934 --> 00:34:12,574 horrible to think. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I 986 00:34:12,574 --> 00:34:14,175 mean, I have to say that for me, 987 00:34:14,175 --> 00:34:16,355 Schrodinger writing down the Schrodinger equation 988 00:34:16,734 --> 00:34:18,175 is sort of something where you say, well, 989 00:34:18,175 --> 00:34:20,835 it's pretty obvious. As a physicist, you know, 990 00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:23,090 There was, de Broglie and over the, 991 00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:24,390 that there would 992 00:34:24,849 --> 00:34:27,170 be waves, you know, matter waves, and there's 993 00:34:27,170 --> 00:34:28,230 a dispersion relation. 994 00:34:28,530 --> 00:34:29,890 He asked them, you know, what is the 995 00:34:29,890 --> 00:34:32,130 corresponding wave equation, then writing it down, and 996 00:34:32,130 --> 00:34:34,289 then him solving it for the hydrogen atom. 997 00:34:34,289 --> 00:34:36,855 And it was a problem incoming from acoustics, 998 00:34:36,914 --> 00:34:39,255 for example. He knew how to solve eigenvalue 999 00:34:39,394 --> 00:34:41,315 problems, and so the hydrogen was just one 1000 00:34:41,315 --> 00:34:43,795 of a different type, very complicated, but he 1001 00:34:43,795 --> 00:34:45,954 could do it analytically, you know, while being 1002 00:34:45,954 --> 00:34:47,894 on on winter vacation in Ouse. 1003 00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:49,750 So this is, 1004 00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:51,989 this is for me much more logical. But 1005 00:34:51,989 --> 00:34:52,489 Heisenberg's, 1006 00:34:52,949 --> 00:34:55,029 no entry to quantum mechanics with this matrix 1007 00:34:55,029 --> 00:34:57,609 mechanics, I find it very mysterious. You know? 1008 00:34:58,389 --> 00:35:00,309 Well, we'll leave it there. Fantastic mystery to 1009 00:35:00,309 --> 00:35:01,529 end on. Thank you, Peter. 1010 00:35:09,025 --> 00:35:12,085 That was Physics World's Mateen Durrani in conversation 1011 00:35:12,224 --> 00:35:15,265 with Peter Zoller. And before that, you heard 1012 00:35:15,265 --> 00:35:16,244 Michelle Simmons 1013 00:35:16,619 --> 00:35:18,000 and Tracy Northup. 1014 00:35:18,619 --> 00:35:19,279 The Helgoland 1015 00:35:19,579 --> 00:35:22,079 conference is one of many events worldwide 1016 00:35:22,539 --> 00:35:23,519 that are celebrating 1017 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:25,119 2025 1018 00:35:25,339 --> 00:35:26,319 as the international 1019 00:35:26,619 --> 00:35:27,920 year of quantum 1020 00:35:28,219 --> 00:35:29,199 science and technology 1021 00:35:30,155 --> 00:35:32,574 as decreed by the United Nations 1022 00:35:32,954 --> 00:35:33,454 Educational, 1023 00:35:34,234 --> 00:35:34,734 Scientific, 1024 00:35:35,195 --> 00:35:36,734 and Cultural Organization, 1025 00:35:37,755 --> 00:35:39,295 better known as UNESCO. 1026 00:35:40,155 --> 00:35:43,675 We've been celebrating here at Physics World throughout 1027 00:35:43,675 --> 00:35:45,860 the year, and you can find all of 1028 00:35:45,860 --> 00:35:46,680 our special 1029 00:35:47,059 --> 00:35:48,119 quantum coverage 1030 00:35:48,420 --> 00:35:49,719 by going to our website 1031 00:35:50,099 --> 00:35:51,719 and clicking on quantum 1032 00:35:52,019 --> 00:35:53,640 under the topics tab. 1033 00:35:54,099 --> 00:35:55,940 I'm afraid that's all the time we have 1034 00:35:55,940 --> 00:35:58,974 for this week's podcast. Thanks to Michelle Simmons, 1035 00:35:59,195 --> 00:36:02,815 Peter Zoller, and Tracy Northup for their reflections 1036 00:36:03,114 --> 00:36:06,735 on the past, present, and future of quantum 1037 00:36:06,795 --> 00:36:07,295 physics, 1038 00:36:07,675 --> 00:36:10,494 and to Matin Jurani for making the epic 1039 00:36:10,555 --> 00:36:13,829 journey to Helga Land on behalf of Physics 1040 00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:14,329 World. 1041 00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:17,029 And as always, a special thanks to our 1042 00:36:17,029 --> 00:36:17,529 producer, 1043 00:36:17,989 --> 00:36:18,969 Fred Isles. 1044 00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:21,829 We'll be back again next week. See you 1045 00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:22,329 then.