1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,139 Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly 2 00:00:11,199 --> 00:00:11,699 podcast. 3 00:00:12,255 --> 00:00:15,394 In this episode, we discuss the career opportunities 4 00:00:15,855 --> 00:00:16,914 open to physicists 5 00:00:17,295 --> 00:00:18,195 and engineers 6 00:00:18,495 --> 00:00:21,375 looking to work within health care as medical 7 00:00:21,375 --> 00:00:21,875 physicists 8 00:00:22,335 --> 00:00:23,154 or clinical 9 00:00:23,454 --> 00:00:23,954 engineers. 10 00:00:25,279 --> 00:00:27,539 This podcast is sponsored by Radformation, 11 00:00:28,239 --> 00:00:29,219 which is redefining 12 00:00:29,599 --> 00:00:30,099 automation 13 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,100 in radiation oncology 14 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,199 with a full suite of tools designed to 15 00:00:35,199 --> 00:00:35,699 streamline 16 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,059 clinical workflows 17 00:00:37,359 --> 00:00:38,659 and boost efficiency. 18 00:00:39,484 --> 00:00:41,825 At the 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00:01:19,765 --> 00:01:20,265 supports 37 00:01:20,564 --> 00:01:22,025 zero click workflows, 38 00:01:22,885 --> 00:01:23,385 deformable 39 00:01:23,765 --> 00:01:24,745 image registration, 40 00:01:25,659 --> 00:01:27,680 and advanced review tools, 41 00:01:28,060 --> 00:01:29,840 giving teams more control 42 00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:30,799 and flexibility 43 00:01:31,659 --> 00:01:32,480 while saving 44 00:01:32,859 --> 00:01:33,920 valuable time. 45 00:01:34,540 --> 00:01:37,519 Now is the time to explore everything AutoContour 46 00:01:38,219 --> 00:01:39,280 has to offer. 47 00:01:39,704 --> 00:01:40,204 Visit 48 00:01:40,584 --> 00:01:42,765 radformation.com 49 00:01:42,825 --> 00:01:44,924 to learn more or schedule 50 00:01:45,224 --> 00:01:46,284 your personalized 51 00:01:46,664 --> 00:01:47,164 demo. 52 00:01:49,064 --> 00:01:52,024 This week, Physics World's Tammy Freeman is in 53 00:01:52,024 --> 00:01:52,524 conversation 54 00:01:52,825 --> 00:01:53,884 with two physicists 55 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:55,819 working in The UK's 56 00:01:56,359 --> 00:01:57,819 National Health Service, 57 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:58,939 the NHS. 58 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:01,740 They are Rachel Alcock, 59 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,900 a trainee clinical scientist at University Hospitals 60 00:02:06,454 --> 00:02:07,915 Coventry and Warwickshire 61 00:02:08,375 --> 00:02:09,514 NHS Trust, 62 00:02:09,895 --> 00:02:11,115 and George Bruce, 63 00:02:11,495 --> 00:02:12,715 a clinical scientist 64 00:02:13,014 --> 00:02:13,995 at NHS 65 00:02:14,854 --> 00:02:16,715 Greater Glasgow and Clyde. 66 00:02:17,254 --> 00:02:19,900 We also hear from Chris Watt, head of 67 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:20,400 communications 68 00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:23,039 and public affairs at IPEM, 69 00:02:23,579 --> 00:02:26,079 about the new IPEM careers guide. 70 00:02:27,019 --> 00:02:29,599 This episode was created in collaboration 71 00:02:30,060 --> 00:02:30,879 with IPEM, 72 00:02:31,514 --> 00:02:34,174 the Institute of Physics and Engineering 73 00:02:34,474 --> 00:02:35,294 in Medicine. 74 00:02:36,074 --> 00:02:37,854 IPEM owns the journal 75 00:02:38,155 --> 00:02:40,655 Physics in Medicine and Biology. 76 00:02:41,674 --> 00:02:42,814 Here's that interview. 77 00:02:51,340 --> 00:02:53,180 A degree in physics can open up a 78 00:02:53,180 --> 00:02:54,719 wide range of career opportunities. 79 00:02:55,819 --> 00:02:57,360 One area in which physicists, 80 00:02:57,735 --> 00:03:00,134 as well as those with engineering degrees, could 81 00:03:00,134 --> 00:03:03,114 apply their unique skills is within health care. 82 00:03:03,894 --> 00:03:05,995 This could be working as a medical physicist 83 00:03:06,375 --> 00:03:08,455 to develop and optimize state of the art 84 00:03:08,455 --> 00:03:11,034 techniques for diagnosing and treating disease, 85 00:03:11,689 --> 00:03:13,069 or as a clinical engineer, 86 00:03:13,610 --> 00:03:17,370 designing, maintaining, and improving medical devices ranging from 87 00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:20,270 ventilators to advanced surgical robots. 88 00:03:21,610 --> 00:03:24,270 In this podcast, we speak with two physicists 89 00:03:24,569 --> 00:03:26,909 working in The UK's National Health Service. 90 00:03:27,525 --> 00:03:29,604 I'm pleased to be joined today by Rachel 91 00:03:29,604 --> 00:03:30,104 Alcock, 92 00:03:30,405 --> 00:03:32,745 a trainee clinical scientist in radiotherapy 93 00:03:33,044 --> 00:03:33,544 physics 94 00:03:33,925 --> 00:03:37,784 at University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust, 95 00:03:38,485 --> 00:03:39,629 and George Bruce, 96 00:03:40,030 --> 00:03:43,150 a clinical scientist at NHS Greater Glasgow and 97 00:03:43,150 --> 00:03:45,969 Clyde who specializes in MRI physics. 98 00:03:46,990 --> 00:03:49,629 We're also joined by Chris Watt, head of 99 00:03:49,629 --> 00:03:51,969 communications and public affairs at IPEM, 100 00:03:52,365 --> 00:03:54,784 the Institute of Physics and Engineering in Medicine. 101 00:03:55,245 --> 00:03:56,685 And Chris is gonna tell us about the 102 00:03:56,685 --> 00:03:59,664 dedicated careers guide that IPEM has just produced. 103 00:04:00,365 --> 00:04:03,405 So welcome to the podcast, Rachel, George, and 104 00:04:03,405 --> 00:04:03,905 Chris. 105 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,140 Thank you. Nice to be here. 106 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:08,659 So 107 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,680 let's start off with a few questions for 108 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,400 Rachel and George. So first of all, can 109 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,920 you just tell us a bit about your 110 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,020 current role and what this involves? 111 00:04:19,464 --> 00:04:20,585 Okay. I'll go first. 112 00:04:21,064 --> 00:04:22,105 So I'm, 113 00:04:22,504 --> 00:04:25,384 training at the moment to be a clinical 114 00:04:25,384 --> 00:04:26,685 scientist in radiotherapy 115 00:04:26,985 --> 00:04:27,964 physics. So 116 00:04:28,264 --> 00:04:29,964 I did a physics degree. 117 00:04:30,745 --> 00:04:31,245 And 118 00:04:32,149 --> 00:04:34,490 in radiotherapy, we're trying to 119 00:04:34,790 --> 00:04:35,290 treat 120 00:04:35,829 --> 00:04:36,329 cancerous 121 00:04:37,189 --> 00:04:38,810 tumors with radiation. 122 00:04:39,430 --> 00:04:40,649 And as physicists, 123 00:04:41,029 --> 00:04:43,050 we have a role to understand, 124 00:04:44,629 --> 00:04:46,810 understand the physics is going on and 125 00:04:47,964 --> 00:04:49,185 basically have responsibility 126 00:04:49,805 --> 00:04:51,725 to make sure that when the doctor says 127 00:04:51,725 --> 00:04:53,165 they want a certain amount of radiation to 128 00:04:53,165 --> 00:04:55,404 a certain place that it happens. So this 129 00:04:55,404 --> 00:04:57,884 involves a variety of things like planning of 130 00:04:57,884 --> 00:05:01,584 treatments and testing of equipment and commissioning 131 00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:04,250 new equipment and software to use 132 00:05:04,629 --> 00:05:07,770 and answering doctors' queries when they've got complicated 133 00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:09,290 patients coming in. 134 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:10,250 And 135 00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:12,389 trials are also part of our role as 136 00:05:12,389 --> 00:05:14,410 well. So it's a variety of things, really. 137 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:16,330 And you're based in a hospital? 138 00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:19,125 Yes. Yes. We're based in the cancer center 139 00:05:19,125 --> 00:05:19,865 of the hospital. 140 00:05:20,964 --> 00:05:21,845 Okay. Great. And, 141 00:05:22,564 --> 00:05:24,664 George, could you tell us about what your 142 00:05:25,204 --> 00:05:26,344 current role is? 143 00:05:26,805 --> 00:05:29,365 Yeah. So, unlike Rachel, I work in non 144 00:05:29,365 --> 00:05:32,664 ionizing radiation. So I specialize in MRI physics, 145 00:05:33,180 --> 00:05:35,259 which has all to do with MRI scanners. 146 00:05:35,259 --> 00:05:37,199 And while there isn't any ionizing radiation, 147 00:05:37,819 --> 00:05:40,139 because it's a very, very large magnet in 148 00:05:40,139 --> 00:05:41,819 the center of a hospital, which is three 149 00:05:41,819 --> 00:05:43,580 times stronger than those ones you used to 150 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:44,400 pick up cars, 151 00:05:45,115 --> 00:05:47,595 they can still be very dangerous. So we 152 00:05:47,595 --> 00:05:49,274 have to make sure that everyone is safe 153 00:05:49,274 --> 00:05:51,615 around the magnet and don't bring anything ferromagnetic 154 00:05:52,475 --> 00:05:53,294 near the magnet. 155 00:05:53,995 --> 00:05:56,975 There's also dangers to do with, radio frequency 156 00:05:57,035 --> 00:05:58,334 transmission and heating. 157 00:05:58,699 --> 00:06:01,019 And then on the more patient facing side, 158 00:06:01,019 --> 00:06:03,839 we do an awful lot of, sequence optimization, 159 00:06:04,139 --> 00:06:04,959 making images 160 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:08,220 faster and look nicer. And we do research 161 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:10,139 as well trying to develop new techniques to 162 00:06:10,139 --> 00:06:13,180 use MRI in different ways to detect different 163 00:06:13,180 --> 00:06:14,055 types of disease. 164 00:06:15,894 --> 00:06:17,814 K. Great. So what what attracted you to 165 00:06:17,814 --> 00:06:19,274 a career in health care? 166 00:06:21,334 --> 00:06:23,735 Well, for me, I'd I'd started out with 167 00:06:23,735 --> 00:06:24,214 physics, 168 00:06:24,535 --> 00:06:26,134 because I was always the sort of child 169 00:06:26,134 --> 00:06:28,279 who asked how does that work and and 170 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,839 why. And then, when I was about 15, 171 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:32,680 I landed in hospital, and that got me 172 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,139 really interested in health care. 173 00:06:35,319 --> 00:06:35,639 Then, 174 00:06:36,439 --> 00:06:38,040 my grades weren't good enough to go on 175 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,720 to do medicine, so I continued down the 176 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,354 physics track. But when I was in about 177 00:06:41,354 --> 00:06:42,574 my third year at university, 178 00:06:43,354 --> 00:06:44,875 I found out about medical physics, and I 179 00:06:44,875 --> 00:06:46,555 thought it was a really, really good combination 180 00:06:46,555 --> 00:06:48,414 of the two things that I'd really enjoyed 181 00:06:48,794 --> 00:06:50,954 learning about. So that that really attracted me 182 00:06:50,954 --> 00:06:51,774 to this role. 183 00:06:53,754 --> 00:06:55,354 So for me, I 184 00:06:56,930 --> 00:06:58,449 for a long time, I was kind of 185 00:06:58,449 --> 00:07:00,689 attracted to working in a hospital. Like, I 186 00:07:00,689 --> 00:07:03,250 vividly remember I was sat waiting for a 187 00:07:03,250 --> 00:07:05,490 physiotherapy appointment in the waiting room, and I 188 00:07:05,490 --> 00:07:07,490 thought, I want to work here. Not particularly 189 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:09,649 in physiotherapy, but just in the hospital. And 190 00:07:09,649 --> 00:07:11,009 I didn't really know what to do with 191 00:07:11,009 --> 00:07:13,524 that thought. I was never particularly attracted to 192 00:07:13,524 --> 00:07:15,845 being the sort of doing the sort of 193 00:07:15,845 --> 00:07:18,485 standard medical roots of being a doctor or 194 00:07:18,485 --> 00:07:19,144 a nurse. 195 00:07:19,925 --> 00:07:21,704 And I've had an interest in 196 00:07:22,004 --> 00:07:24,084 physics and and maths in particular for a 197 00:07:24,084 --> 00:07:25,605 long time and knew I wanted to use 198 00:07:25,605 --> 00:07:27,800 those skills in a way that helped people, 199 00:07:27,939 --> 00:07:29,399 like, helped people directly. 200 00:07:30,180 --> 00:07:32,019 And so when I found out about medical 201 00:07:32,019 --> 00:07:33,939 physics, that really fit for me, 202 00:07:34,259 --> 00:07:35,639 and the rest is history. 203 00:07:38,785 --> 00:07:40,704 Okay. That's great. So, I mean, what what 204 00:07:40,704 --> 00:07:42,625 training route did you take? How did you 205 00:07:42,625 --> 00:07:44,644 move from physics to 206 00:07:45,024 --> 00:07:45,925 medical physics? 207 00:07:47,504 --> 00:07:48,004 So 208 00:07:48,545 --> 00:07:51,345 I'm doing what's called the NHS scientist training 209 00:07:51,345 --> 00:07:51,845 program. 210 00:07:52,199 --> 00:07:54,860 So this is a three year program, 211 00:07:55,639 --> 00:07:56,139 which 212 00:07:56,439 --> 00:07:56,939 involves, 213 00:07:58,039 --> 00:07:59,019 being in 214 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,519 use you're recruited into a hospital and you 215 00:08:02,519 --> 00:08:04,279 are a member of staff at that hospital, 216 00:08:04,279 --> 00:08:05,639 and you spend most of the time in 217 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:07,180 your center, in your department. 218 00:08:08,055 --> 00:08:10,375 And you work on a portfolio, basically. You've 219 00:08:10,375 --> 00:08:13,014 got a long list of activities you need 220 00:08:13,014 --> 00:08:15,414 to tick off during your time training to 221 00:08:15,414 --> 00:08:17,254 make sure you've got the skills to be 222 00:08:17,254 --> 00:08:18,314 a clinical scientist. 223 00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:22,310 And alongside that, you also do a master's 224 00:08:22,310 --> 00:08:23,529 in clinical science. 225 00:08:24,389 --> 00:08:24,889 So, 226 00:08:25,509 --> 00:08:28,230 over the three years part time. So it's 227 00:08:28,389 --> 00:08:29,050 you have 228 00:08:29,430 --> 00:08:31,270 some time dedicated to the masters and some 229 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:33,125 and but most of your time is in 230 00:08:33,125 --> 00:08:35,144 the center doing the work, basically. 231 00:08:36,004 --> 00:08:36,985 It recruits 232 00:08:37,684 --> 00:08:38,184 nationally 233 00:08:38,565 --> 00:08:39,384 every year, 234 00:08:40,245 --> 00:08:43,125 and hospitals around the country take part in 235 00:08:43,125 --> 00:08:43,865 it, basically. 236 00:08:45,919 --> 00:08:48,559 Okay. And, Georgie, did you follow a similar 237 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:49,620 route for your training? 238 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,720 Similar, but not the same. So, based up 239 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,440 in Scotland, we've got the Scottish medical physics 240 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,620 and clinical engineering training scheme, 241 00:08:58,115 --> 00:08:58,615 which, 242 00:08:59,714 --> 00:09:02,115 effectively is is slightly different because you do 243 00:09:02,115 --> 00:09:04,514 your first year as a pure masters at 244 00:09:04,514 --> 00:09:05,735 the University of Glasgow. 245 00:09:06,274 --> 00:09:08,514 And then the following years, the second year 246 00:09:08,514 --> 00:09:10,355 is based as a foundation year. So you 247 00:09:10,355 --> 00:09:12,360 rotate around and you do ten weeks in 248 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,899 each specialism, which would be, 249 00:09:14,759 --> 00:09:17,100 for medical physics, it'd be MRI, 250 00:09:17,399 --> 00:09:17,899 radiotherapy, 251 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:20,940 nuclear medicine, and radi radiation protection. 252 00:09:21,639 --> 00:09:23,000 And then at the end of your second 253 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,125 year, you would choose one of those to 254 00:09:25,125 --> 00:09:26,725 specialize in, and you would spend a year 255 00:09:26,725 --> 00:09:28,884 and a half specializing in that. At which 256 00:09:28,884 --> 00:09:31,065 point, you would submit your sort of portfolio 257 00:09:31,365 --> 00:09:33,365 of evidence, which shows that what you have 258 00:09:33,365 --> 00:09:35,605 done is equivalent to what Rachel will have 259 00:09:35,605 --> 00:09:37,764 done. So you you're showing that the two 260 00:09:37,764 --> 00:09:38,665 things are equivalent. 261 00:09:39,205 --> 00:09:41,070 I think it's also worth mentioning that both 262 00:09:41,070 --> 00:09:42,850 of the positions as a trainee 263 00:09:43,470 --> 00:09:45,230 are paid. So you're are paid as a 264 00:09:45,230 --> 00:09:46,830 NHS member of staff. So you're not having 265 00:09:46,830 --> 00:09:48,670 to take three and a half years out 266 00:09:48,670 --> 00:09:50,769 unpaid, which I don't think anyone could do. 267 00:09:50,910 --> 00:09:52,509 No. Because this is this is after your 268 00:09:52,509 --> 00:09:55,245 first degree, your initial degree. Yeah? Yes. Yeah. 269 00:09:55,245 --> 00:09:56,924 Yeah. So I I did a physics degree, 270 00:09:56,924 --> 00:09:59,325 and then, you are paid effectively to do 271 00:09:59,325 --> 00:10:00,845 the masters and your fees are taken care 272 00:10:00,845 --> 00:10:02,065 of, which is very nice. 273 00:10:03,004 --> 00:10:04,225 So you both, 274 00:10:04,845 --> 00:10:06,384 studied for master's degrees, 275 00:10:06,845 --> 00:10:09,004 as part of this training. And then, George, 276 00:10:09,004 --> 00:10:11,669 you're also currently studying for a PhD? 277 00:10:12,929 --> 00:10:14,850 Yes. Yeah. So about two years ago, I 278 00:10:14,850 --> 00:10:17,169 applied to the chief scientist office for a 279 00:10:17,169 --> 00:10:17,669 fellowship. 280 00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:20,929 And so they effectively have bought me out 281 00:10:20,929 --> 00:10:22,850 three days a week now for the next 282 00:10:22,850 --> 00:10:24,690 five years or well, for the five years 283 00:10:24,690 --> 00:10:25,750 from two years ago. 284 00:10:27,035 --> 00:10:28,875 So that means that I'm now studying for 285 00:10:28,875 --> 00:10:29,934 a PhD alongside 286 00:10:30,394 --> 00:10:32,794 my clinical role, but it's quite nice because 287 00:10:32,794 --> 00:10:35,434 I get dedicated PhD days. So while a 288 00:10:35,434 --> 00:10:36,875 lot a lot of my colleagues have had 289 00:10:36,875 --> 00:10:37,855 to do PhDs 290 00:10:38,959 --> 00:10:41,120 with whatever time their department can give them, 291 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,259 I've actually been given 292 00:10:42,639 --> 00:10:45,440 guaranteed days to do my PhD, which is 293 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:46,899 very, very lucky, I think. 294 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,199 That's great. I mean and why did you 295 00:10:49,199 --> 00:10:50,980 choose to focus on MRI? 296 00:10:53,865 --> 00:10:55,384 Well, if I'm honest, when I was doing 297 00:10:55,384 --> 00:10:57,144 the masters, the m MRI was the thing 298 00:10:57,144 --> 00:10:58,365 I really didn't understand. 299 00:10:58,985 --> 00:11:00,425 I just I didn't get it. It was 300 00:11:00,425 --> 00:11:01,165 too complicated. 301 00:11:02,024 --> 00:11:04,684 And so I decided to do my MSC 302 00:11:04,825 --> 00:11:05,309 project 303 00:11:05,789 --> 00:11:07,629 in MRI to try and gain a better 304 00:11:07,629 --> 00:11:09,870 understanding of it. And as with a lot 305 00:11:09,870 --> 00:11:11,789 of things, maybe when you don't understand it 306 00:11:11,789 --> 00:11:13,149 at first, when you finally get your head 307 00:11:13,149 --> 00:11:15,309 around the corner, it suddenly becomes really, really 308 00:11:15,309 --> 00:11:17,595 interesting. And once you're down the rabbit hole, 309 00:11:17,914 --> 00:11:19,294 you find it really interesting. 310 00:11:19,914 --> 00:11:21,595 I also was really attracted to the fact 311 00:11:21,595 --> 00:11:24,954 that there is no ionizing radiation for MRI, 312 00:11:24,954 --> 00:11:27,294 which means that if you're interested in doing 313 00:11:27,754 --> 00:11:30,870 research or having healthy volunteers, the the doors 314 00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:32,550 are more open in that sense because you 315 00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:35,430 can volunteer for an MRI scan, and there's 316 00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:37,990 much less legislation. There's still obviously protections and 317 00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:41,210 everything in place, but there's significantly fewer hurdles. 318 00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:44,090 Yeah. I guess if you're sort of 319 00:11:45,054 --> 00:11:47,134 studying x-ray based imaging, you're gonna have a 320 00:11:47,134 --> 00:11:48,034 lot more problems 321 00:11:48,414 --> 00:11:50,995 doing that stuff. Yeah. Definitely. Anything through radionuclides 322 00:11:51,615 --> 00:11:53,534 or gamma rays or x rays, you're gonna 323 00:11:53,534 --> 00:11:54,195 have issues. 324 00:11:55,855 --> 00:11:59,289 Okay. And, Rachel, why did you choose radiotherapy 325 00:11:59,830 --> 00:12:01,129 as your specialist area? 326 00:12:01,750 --> 00:12:03,450 So similar to, 327 00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:06,549 the Scottish scheme that George mentioned, the first 328 00:12:06,549 --> 00:12:09,429 year of the scientist training program, you spend 329 00:12:09,429 --> 00:12:11,929 rotating around different areas of medical physics. 330 00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:13,190 And I was 331 00:12:14,144 --> 00:12:16,305 frankly, my hospital gave me the option to 332 00:12:16,305 --> 00:12:18,625 choose which area I wanted to specialize in 333 00:12:18,625 --> 00:12:20,225 after I'd done those rotations. So I got 334 00:12:20,225 --> 00:12:21,605 a really good sort of taster 335 00:12:22,065 --> 00:12:23,524 of each of those areas. 336 00:12:25,345 --> 00:12:27,425 For me, the sort of different areas of 337 00:12:27,425 --> 00:12:29,365 medical physics, they vary in 338 00:12:29,740 --> 00:12:30,559 how much 339 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,360 how much time you spend with the patients. 340 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:35,500 So some are really patient facing in the 341 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:37,259 sense that you see patients every day, you 342 00:12:37,259 --> 00:12:39,259 have appointments with them. That would be the 343 00:12:39,259 --> 00:12:42,540 more nuclear medicine side, I'd say, or, to 344 00:12:42,540 --> 00:12:45,179 ones where you don't really see patients at 345 00:12:45,179 --> 00:12:47,714 all, but you're working on the equipment and 346 00:12:47,714 --> 00:12:50,695 the physics required to, you know, diagnose them. 347 00:12:50,914 --> 00:12:51,975 For me, radiotherapy 348 00:12:52,674 --> 00:12:54,294 was a really nice in between. 349 00:12:54,914 --> 00:12:59,075 We are consistently involved in the pathway of 350 00:12:59,075 --> 00:13:01,254 a patient and cases of patients. 351 00:13:02,330 --> 00:13:04,910 Although we don't see patients every day where 352 00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:07,690 there's always a sort of new case coming 353 00:13:07,690 --> 00:13:10,090 in that we need to look at, which 354 00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:11,769 I found really interesting. I want to sort 355 00:13:11,769 --> 00:13:14,110 of be directly involved in that, 356 00:13:15,345 --> 00:13:17,264 and the problem solving side of it, but 357 00:13:17,264 --> 00:13:18,245 also having, 358 00:13:19,904 --> 00:13:21,904 sort of a balance of that and sort 359 00:13:21,904 --> 00:13:24,165 of behind the scenes working on the equipment 360 00:13:24,225 --> 00:13:26,545 and doing the science. I just found that 361 00:13:26,545 --> 00:13:28,230 to be a really good balance for me, 362 00:13:28,789 --> 00:13:31,049 which is ultimately why I chose it. 363 00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:34,169 Okay. Great. And then 364 00:13:34,709 --> 00:13:36,789 what key skills would you say are essential 365 00:13:36,789 --> 00:13:39,190 if someone's looking for a career in medical 366 00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:39,690 physics? 367 00:13:41,245 --> 00:13:42,144 I would say, 368 00:13:43,245 --> 00:13:46,144 communication, interpersonal skills are really important. 369 00:13:47,404 --> 00:13:47,904 You 370 00:13:48,284 --> 00:13:51,404 work in you're always gonna be working in 371 00:13:51,404 --> 00:13:51,904 teams, 372 00:13:53,004 --> 00:13:53,504 and, 373 00:13:54,524 --> 00:13:55,504 working with 374 00:13:56,509 --> 00:14:00,529 other physicists, but also other other professions, radiographers, 375 00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:02,050 doctors, technicians. 376 00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:03,809 So being able to communicate 377 00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:07,470 physics ideas to people who aren't physicists is 378 00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:09,710 really important and to be able to work 379 00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:12,264 well with other people is really important. 380 00:14:12,725 --> 00:14:14,664 And also, as I said, you know, 381 00:14:15,365 --> 00:14:16,345 some of the time 382 00:14:16,804 --> 00:14:18,985 medical physicists spend is with patients. 383 00:14:19,444 --> 00:14:20,725 And so you need to be able to 384 00:14:20,725 --> 00:14:23,384 relate well to patients and, and 385 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,720 have a good bedside manner and compassion and 386 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,019 things like that. So, 387 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,799 yeah, communication and interpersonal skills, I think, are 388 00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:31,539 really important. 389 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:35,360 Yep. I I I would agree with that. 390 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:36,799 I think one of the ones that's most 391 00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:39,460 commonly quoted is problem solving skills. 392 00:14:40,345 --> 00:14:41,945 And that's sort of true for all physics 393 00:14:41,945 --> 00:14:42,445 things. 394 00:14:42,825 --> 00:14:44,904 Every patient is going to come through differently, 395 00:14:44,904 --> 00:14:47,225 and even the same disease will present differently. 396 00:14:47,225 --> 00:14:47,725 And 397 00:14:48,345 --> 00:14:51,304 all different scanners and pieces of equipment behave 398 00:14:51,304 --> 00:14:52,985 differently, so you need to be able to 399 00:14:52,985 --> 00:14:55,325 think well on the fly and solve problems. 400 00:14:55,839 --> 00:14:57,440 And the other thing I would sort of 401 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,159 say is, 402 00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:01,700 being able to maintain a level of empathy 403 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:02,500 while 404 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,059 maintaining a level of, professionalism. 405 00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:07,679 And this is a a hard line sometimes 406 00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:09,279 to tell because you can get very, very 407 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:10,179 difficult cases, 408 00:15:11,365 --> 00:15:13,924 pediatric cases, terminally ill cases where you've still 409 00:15:13,924 --> 00:15:15,845 got to do your job, but it's very, 410 00:15:15,845 --> 00:15:16,664 very important 411 00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:19,284 to in some respects, it's important to be 412 00:15:19,284 --> 00:15:21,845 detached. And in some respects, it's very, very 413 00:15:21,845 --> 00:15:23,225 important that you maintain 414 00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:25,740 the appropriate level of empathy as well. 415 00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:28,360 And that that's sometimes a difficult line to 416 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,600 tow because you gotta remember that you're dealing 417 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,800 with people and patients and entire lives and 418 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,480 do the best get make the job to 419 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,315 the best for your ability. But at the 420 00:15:37,315 --> 00:15:38,595 same time, you can't let that sort of 421 00:15:38,595 --> 00:15:40,195 thing overwhelm you to the point that you 422 00:15:40,195 --> 00:15:41,554 can no longer do your job and no 423 00:15:41,554 --> 00:15:42,375 longer function. 424 00:15:42,834 --> 00:15:44,914 So I'd say that's that's another really important 425 00:15:44,914 --> 00:15:45,414 trait. 426 00:15:46,834 --> 00:15:48,355 Yeah. So, I mean, that's that's really a 427 00:15:48,355 --> 00:15:49,174 sort of unique 428 00:15:49,794 --> 00:15:50,294 challenge 429 00:15:51,154 --> 00:15:52,850 of this this sort of work. 430 00:15:53,549 --> 00:15:54,450 So, I mean, 431 00:15:54,830 --> 00:15:55,330 both 432 00:15:55,710 --> 00:15:58,610 you, George and Rachel, you're working within hospitals 433 00:15:58,750 --> 00:16:00,049 in the clinical sector. 434 00:16:01,309 --> 00:16:04,269 But medical physicists and clinical engineers have got 435 00:16:04,269 --> 00:16:06,269 a there's a range of other career options 436 00:16:06,269 --> 00:16:06,769 available. 437 00:16:07,605 --> 00:16:09,945 They could work within academia, for example, 438 00:16:10,725 --> 00:16:13,704 performing cutting edge research and teaching and developing 439 00:16:13,764 --> 00:16:14,824 clinical trials. 440 00:16:15,605 --> 00:16:18,804 Or another option is the industrial sector, so 441 00:16:18,804 --> 00:16:21,144 working to produce and develop innovative 442 00:16:21,445 --> 00:16:23,144 medical equipment and technology. 443 00:16:24,139 --> 00:16:26,299 Now as I mentioned at the start, IPEM 444 00:16:26,299 --> 00:16:28,860 has just published a careers guide that aims 445 00:16:28,860 --> 00:16:31,899 to provide the tools and knowledge needed to 446 00:16:31,899 --> 00:16:34,320 pursue a career in any of these sectors. 447 00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:37,345 So, Chris, if I can turn to you 448 00:16:37,345 --> 00:16:40,464 now and ask what prompted IPEM to create 449 00:16:40,464 --> 00:16:41,764 this careers guide? 450 00:16:42,704 --> 00:16:46,225 Well, as the professional body representing medical physicists 451 00:16:46,225 --> 00:16:48,644 and clinical engineers as well as clinical technologists, 452 00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:52,470 The promotion of the workforce and support for 453 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:53,129 the workforce 454 00:16:53,589 --> 00:16:55,750 is very much one of our absolute top 455 00:16:55,750 --> 00:16:56,250 priorities, 456 00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:58,870 and a great deal of our work goes 457 00:16:58,870 --> 00:17:00,169 into doing that. 458 00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:02,789 And we've heard back from our members and 459 00:17:02,789 --> 00:17:04,409 the wider professional community 460 00:17:05,054 --> 00:17:07,134 that getting more people into the workforce is 461 00:17:07,134 --> 00:17:08,894 a key challenge that we face at the 462 00:17:08,894 --> 00:17:10,894 moment. So we put our minds to it 463 00:17:10,894 --> 00:17:12,335 and talked to many of our members and 464 00:17:12,335 --> 00:17:14,595 decided that coming up with a careers guide, 465 00:17:14,815 --> 00:17:16,355 which could be used by, 466 00:17:16,815 --> 00:17:17,634 both students 467 00:17:17,934 --> 00:17:18,674 and also, 468 00:17:19,210 --> 00:17:20,590 earlier careers professionals, 469 00:17:21,450 --> 00:17:23,950 would be a really useful resource for them 470 00:17:24,090 --> 00:17:25,630 to not only promote, 471 00:17:26,330 --> 00:17:28,650 the exciting careers that people can have in 472 00:17:28,650 --> 00:17:31,850 medical physics and clinical engineering, but also explain 473 00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:33,450 to them a bit about the various roles 474 00:17:33,450 --> 00:17:35,394 that there are, training pathways, 475 00:17:36,174 --> 00:17:37,154 and other opportunities, 476 00:17:37,855 --> 00:17:39,234 and also some of the requirements 477 00:17:39,774 --> 00:17:41,315 around, for example, CPD, 478 00:17:41,855 --> 00:17:43,075 the benefits of registration. 479 00:17:43,694 --> 00:17:45,855 And we've also been extremely grateful to many 480 00:17:45,855 --> 00:17:46,674 of our members, 481 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,119 including both George and Rachel for allowing themselves 482 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,960 to be case studies for this to give 483 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,200 real life examples of the sorts of careers 484 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,759 that people can follow in medical physics and 485 00:17:56,759 --> 00:17:57,660 clinical engineering. 486 00:17:59,559 --> 00:18:00,619 Great. So, I mean, 487 00:18:01,054 --> 00:18:02,815 you you mentioned this briefly, but what what 488 00:18:02,815 --> 00:18:05,154 sort of information does the guide contain? 489 00:18:05,934 --> 00:18:07,615 So as well as our case studies of 490 00:18:07,615 --> 00:18:08,595 some of our members, 491 00:18:08,974 --> 00:18:12,194 we've also got pathways into the profession, 492 00:18:12,494 --> 00:18:15,075 the various training routes that people can follow. 493 00:18:15,309 --> 00:18:16,830 We've got a bit of a jargon buster 494 00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:18,589 in there because I think for 495 00:18:18,990 --> 00:18:20,750 even for those of us who work in 496 00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:23,330 the medical physics and clinical engineering sphere, 497 00:18:23,869 --> 00:18:26,130 we'll accept that most people out there, 498 00:18:26,430 --> 00:18:28,269 in the world don't know a great deal 499 00:18:28,269 --> 00:18:30,434 about medical physics and clinical engineering. So we've 500 00:18:30,434 --> 00:18:31,795 got a bit of a jargon buster in 501 00:18:31,795 --> 00:18:33,575 there to explain to people, 502 00:18:33,954 --> 00:18:35,494 exactly what we're talking about. 503 00:18:36,035 --> 00:18:37,815 It says information on the CPD, 504 00:18:38,275 --> 00:18:39,335 some of the CPD, 505 00:18:40,194 --> 00:18:43,154 training and career development that IPEM itself offers 506 00:18:43,154 --> 00:18:44,914 as well as other options as well, 507 00:18:45,369 --> 00:18:47,849 the importance of registration. So for instance, if 508 00:18:47,849 --> 00:18:49,149 you're a clinical technologist, 509 00:18:49,609 --> 00:18:52,029 why it's important to go onto the RCT, 510 00:18:52,089 --> 00:18:53,789 the register of clinical technologists. 511 00:18:54,809 --> 00:18:56,829 So there's a great deal of of information 512 00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:59,804 in there. And alongside the careers guide, we're 513 00:18:59,804 --> 00:19:01,565 also going to be launching a number of 514 00:19:01,565 --> 00:19:04,365 careers videos, which, again, we've worked with some 515 00:19:04,365 --> 00:19:07,744 of our members covering medical physics, clinical engineering, 516 00:19:07,964 --> 00:19:10,544 and clinical technologist professions and careers. 517 00:19:10,924 --> 00:19:13,140 And those videos will also be coming out 518 00:19:13,299 --> 00:19:15,380 out around the same same time as the 519 00:19:15,380 --> 00:19:16,680 careers guide as well. 520 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:20,900 So how can our listeners access the careers 521 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:21,400 guide? 522 00:19:22,259 --> 00:19:24,259 So the careers guide, as well as our 523 00:19:24,259 --> 00:19:27,240 videos can be accessed on the IPEM website 524 00:19:27,684 --> 00:19:29,605 at ipem.ac.uk, 525 00:19:29,605 --> 00:19:31,525 and you can find, an easy link on 526 00:19:31,525 --> 00:19:33,525 there and have a look through the careers 527 00:19:33,525 --> 00:19:35,765 guide and watch our careers videos on our 528 00:19:35,765 --> 00:19:36,265 website. 529 00:19:37,365 --> 00:19:39,384 Excellent. Thank you. So 530 00:19:39,845 --> 00:19:40,345 finally, 531 00:19:40,805 --> 00:19:42,569 perhaps you can all answer this. 532 00:19:43,289 --> 00:19:45,869 Could you offer one key piece of advice 533 00:19:46,089 --> 00:19:47,789 for physicists or engineers 534 00:19:48,169 --> 00:19:50,889 interested in a career in health care? Perhaps, 535 00:19:50,889 --> 00:19:52,190 Chris, you could go first. 536 00:19:53,849 --> 00:19:55,149 For me, as somebody, 537 00:19:55,690 --> 00:19:56,909 who doesn't work 538 00:19:57,285 --> 00:19:59,765 specifically as a medical physicist or clinical engineer 539 00:19:59,765 --> 00:20:01,765 but works for the professional body, I would 540 00:20:01,765 --> 00:20:03,465 say have a look at the IPEN website. 541 00:20:03,525 --> 00:20:05,365 We've got a great deal of information on 542 00:20:05,365 --> 00:20:05,865 there, 543 00:20:06,325 --> 00:20:08,965 both about the benefits of becoming an IPEN 544 00:20:08,965 --> 00:20:11,869 member. We provide a great deal of training, 545 00:20:12,009 --> 00:20:12,509 CPD, 546 00:20:13,049 --> 00:20:13,789 and education. 547 00:20:14,089 --> 00:20:17,069 We provide events, member discounts on events, 548 00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:18,909 and a whole load of information 549 00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:21,210 about the various career pathways and what our 550 00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:22,970 members do. So do have a look on 551 00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:23,630 our website, 552 00:20:24,224 --> 00:20:26,384 and find out more about the exciting careers 553 00:20:26,384 --> 00:20:27,585 that you can have would be the piece 554 00:20:27,585 --> 00:20:28,964 of advice that I would give. 555 00:20:29,424 --> 00:20:32,144 Excellent. Thanks. And, George, do you have any 556 00:20:32,144 --> 00:20:33,845 important advice for people? 557 00:20:34,785 --> 00:20:36,785 Yeah. I would just say for people to 558 00:20:36,785 --> 00:20:37,525 be tenacious, 559 00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:41,019 because, obviously, as has been mentioned, medical physics 560 00:20:41,019 --> 00:20:43,179 and clinical engineer, that thing is is sort 561 00:20:43,179 --> 00:20:44,160 of lesser known 562 00:20:44,539 --> 00:20:47,019 applications of physics and lesser known jobs still. 563 00:20:47,019 --> 00:20:48,460 So a lot of people don't even know 564 00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:49,119 we exist. 565 00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:51,019 But that said, the people who do know 566 00:20:51,019 --> 00:20:51,679 we exist, 567 00:20:52,535 --> 00:20:55,095 the the job positions are fought over quite 568 00:20:55,095 --> 00:20:55,595 competitively. 569 00:20:56,134 --> 00:20:57,815 So anyone who's managed to get onto any 570 00:20:57,815 --> 00:20:59,755 of the training schemes has done very well, 571 00:20:59,815 --> 00:21:01,275 which means that if you're interested 572 00:21:01,654 --> 00:21:03,414 in a role or a career in health 573 00:21:03,414 --> 00:21:05,434 care from a physics or engineering perspective, 574 00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:07,759 You need to be quite committed to it. 575 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:09,440 You need to be tenacious in making sure 576 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,759 that you get some work experience and fill 577 00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:13,440 out your application as best you can and 578 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,740 make yourself the best candidate. 579 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:15,680 So, 580 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,740 for want of a better word, being bullheaded 581 00:21:19,125 --> 00:21:21,525 and enthusiastic are two very good things, and 582 00:21:21,525 --> 00:21:23,625 also asking a lot of the stupid questions. 583 00:21:23,684 --> 00:21:25,365 Because the number of times I've asked a 584 00:21:25,365 --> 00:21:26,924 stupid question and it stand out as not 585 00:21:26,924 --> 00:21:28,805 a stupid question at all, but you just 586 00:21:28,805 --> 00:21:30,244 felt like it was a silly thing to 587 00:21:30,244 --> 00:21:30,960 ask. Is this 588 00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:33,200 all of those things would be my my 589 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,640 sort of key pieces of advice that I 590 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,240 give to a lot of the trainees or 591 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,220 aspiring trainees. 592 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,819 Excellent. Thanks. And, finally, Rachel. 593 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:41,759 Yeah. 594 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,839 So my key piece of advice kind of 595 00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:46,179 follows from what George was saying. I think 596 00:21:46,325 --> 00:21:48,904 if you want to work specifically in healthcare, 597 00:21:50,244 --> 00:21:50,744 Getting 598 00:21:51,204 --> 00:21:53,765 experience in a healthcare environment, I think is 599 00:21:53,765 --> 00:21:54,585 really important. 600 00:21:55,204 --> 00:21:58,585 So I've had friends who have had jobs 601 00:21:58,644 --> 00:22:01,444 in areas other than medical physics prior to 602 00:22:01,444 --> 00:22:01,944 applying 603 00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:04,990 for, to get on a training scheme, which 604 00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:06,049 has really helped them. 605 00:22:06,349 --> 00:22:08,450 I mean, in my case, my, I didn't 606 00:22:08,990 --> 00:22:11,409 work professionally, but I did, 607 00:22:12,269 --> 00:22:14,929 some volunteering in a COVID vaccination center. 608 00:22:15,634 --> 00:22:17,474 And it's things like that that show when 609 00:22:17,474 --> 00:22:20,034 you're applying that you're not just interested in 610 00:22:20,034 --> 00:22:22,534 the physics, but you're interested in the application 611 00:22:22,595 --> 00:22:25,335 of it. You're interested in the healthcare environment 612 00:22:25,554 --> 00:22:26,934 and looking after patients, 613 00:22:28,509 --> 00:22:30,210 and the importance of that role. 614 00:22:30,990 --> 00:22:33,330 And that will really help you stand out, 615 00:22:33,789 --> 00:22:34,769 in those applications. 616 00:22:37,150 --> 00:22:38,289 Excellent. Well 617 00:22:38,670 --> 00:22:41,144 yeah. I mean, thanks. There's some great information 618 00:22:41,144 --> 00:22:43,404 there and some advice for people looking 619 00:22:44,184 --> 00:22:46,445 to follow this unique and rewarding 620 00:22:47,065 --> 00:22:48,045 career, and 621 00:22:49,065 --> 00:22:51,785 thanks everybody for joining us today on the 622 00:22:51,785 --> 00:22:52,285 podcast. 623 00:22:52,745 --> 00:22:55,245 Thank you. It's been lovely. Very much. Cheers. 624 00:23:03,259 --> 00:23:04,880 That was Rachel Alcock, 625 00:23:05,259 --> 00:23:08,859 George Bruce, and Chris Watt in conversation with 626 00:23:08,859 --> 00:23:10,720 Physics World's Tammy Freeman. 627 00:23:11,424 --> 00:23:14,085 Thanks to them for a fascinating conversation, 628 00:23:14,865 --> 00:23:16,805 and a special thanks to our producer, 629 00:23:17,184 --> 00:23:18,085 Fred Ailes. 630 00:23:18,945 --> 00:23:21,204 This podcast is sponsored by Radformation, 631 00:23:21,904 --> 00:23:22,964 which is redefining 632 00:23:23,345 --> 00:23:23,845 automation 633 00:23:24,144 --> 00:23:24,964 in radiation 634 00:23:25,424 --> 00:23:25,924 oncology 635 00:23:26,349 --> 00:23:28,909 with a full suite of tools designed to 636 00:23:28,909 --> 00:23:29,409 streamline 637 00:23:29,789 --> 00:23:30,769 clinical workflows 638 00:23:31,149 --> 00:23:32,369 and boost efficiency. 639 00:23:33,149 --> 00:23:35,490 At the center of it all is AutoContour, 640 00:23:36,269 --> 00:23:39,809 a powerful AI driven auto contouring solution 641 00:23:40,365 --> 00:23:42,144 trusted by centers worldwide. 642 00:23:42,845 --> 00:23:45,884 It delivers high quality contours for organs at 643 00:23:45,884 --> 00:23:49,984 risk, lymph nodes, and even complex HDR 644 00:23:50,605 --> 00:23:51,105 brachytherapy 645 00:23:51,565 --> 00:23:52,065 cases. 646 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,680 With over 290 647 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,299 models across CT, 648 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,180 MR, 649 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,299 and CBCT 650 00:23:58,920 --> 00:23:59,420 models, 651 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,900 including new structures like estro breast nodes, prone 652 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,299 breast and heart, and HDR 653 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:07,180 bowel, 654 00:24:07,555 --> 00:24:08,055 AutoContour 655 00:24:08,434 --> 00:24:11,734 helps clinics stay ahead of evolving standards. 656 00:24:12,515 --> 00:24:13,015 AutoContour 657 00:24:13,474 --> 00:24:13,974 supports 658 00:24:14,275 --> 00:24:15,815 zero click workflows, 659 00:24:16,674 --> 00:24:18,535 deformable image registration, 660 00:24:19,234 --> 00:24:21,255 and advanced review tools, 661 00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:24,640 giving teams more control and flexibility 662 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:26,240 while saving 663 00:24:26,539 --> 00:24:27,680 valuable time. 664 00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:30,480 Now is the time to explore everything 665 00:24:30,779 --> 00:24:31,599 Auto Contour 666 00:24:31,980 --> 00:24:32,960 has to offer. 667 00:24:33,340 --> 00:24:33,840 Visit 668 00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:36,480 radformation.com 669 00:24:36,654 --> 00:24:37,474 to learn more 670 00:24:37,855 --> 00:24:39,954 or schedule your personalized 671 00:24:40,335 --> 00:24:40,835 demo. 672 00:24:41,934 --> 00:24:43,775 I'm afraid that's all the time we have 673 00:24:43,775 --> 00:24:44,994 for this week's podcast. 674 00:24:45,454 --> 00:24:47,234 We'll be back again next week.