1 00:00:07,919 --> 00:00:10,800 Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,900 podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston. 3 00:00:13,535 --> 00:00:14,035 Today, 4 00:00:14,414 --> 00:00:18,274 many creative industries are reliant on cutting edge 5 00:00:18,494 --> 00:00:19,475 digital technologies, 6 00:00:20,094 --> 00:00:23,054 so it's not surprising that this sector could 7 00:00:23,054 --> 00:00:26,994 easily become an early adopter of quantum computing. 8 00:00:27,829 --> 00:00:30,870 In this episode, I'm in conversation with James 9 00:00:30,870 --> 00:00:34,950 Wootton, who is chief scientific officer at Moth 10 00:00:34,950 --> 00:00:35,450 Quantum. 11 00:00:36,390 --> 00:00:38,329 Based in The UK and Switzerland, 12 00:00:38,789 --> 00:00:40,170 the company is developing 13 00:00:40,664 --> 00:00:44,125 quantum software tools for the creative industries, 14 00:00:44,825 --> 00:00:46,045 focusing on artists, 15 00:00:46,344 --> 00:00:46,844 musicians, 16 00:00:47,304 --> 00:00:48,364 and game developers. 17 00:00:49,384 --> 00:00:51,714 James joined Moth in September 18 00:00:51,714 --> 00:00:52,684 2024 19 00:00:52,929 --> 00:00:56,710 after working on quantum error correction at IBM. 20 00:00:57,409 --> 00:01:00,689 He also has a long standing interest in 21 00:01:00,689 --> 00:01:01,670 quantum gaming 22 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:05,590 and in creating tools that make quantum computing 23 00:01:05,650 --> 00:01:06,469 more accessible. 24 00:01:07,225 --> 00:01:09,885 He joins me down the line from Basil. 25 00:01:10,984 --> 00:01:14,185 That interview is coming up. 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Welcome to the podcast. 46 00:02:08,395 --> 00:02:09,775 Hi. Great to be here. 47 00:02:10,635 --> 00:02:12,635 So, James, can you give us a brief 48 00:02:12,635 --> 00:02:14,735 in introduction to Moth? 49 00:02:15,115 --> 00:02:17,534 What does it produce, and how many employees 50 00:02:17,900 --> 00:02:18,800 does it have? 51 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:22,939 Yes. So Moth is a quantum computing startup, 52 00:02:22,939 --> 00:02:25,260 and there are many quantum computing startups. Some 53 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:27,260 of them focus on hardware. We're not one 54 00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:27,840 of those. 55 00:02:28,140 --> 00:02:30,159 We're one of the quantum software startups. 56 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:31,200 Often, 57 00:02:31,625 --> 00:02:34,125 quantum software startups will focus on a particular 58 00:02:34,185 --> 00:02:36,525 industry. You have some looking at health care. 59 00:02:36,664 --> 00:02:38,364 You have some looking at finance. 60 00:02:38,824 --> 00:02:41,324 But we are the only one who focus 61 00:02:41,465 --> 00:02:44,205 on the creative industries, so things like games 62 00:02:44,745 --> 00:02:45,245 and, 63 00:02:45,944 --> 00:02:47,599 and art and music. 64 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:51,120 So what we produce is is quantum software. 65 00:02:51,180 --> 00:02:51,919 We produce, 66 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:55,019 software for people products for people to be 67 00:02:55,019 --> 00:02:56,639 able to use quantum computing 68 00:02:56,939 --> 00:02:58,400 in their creative practices. 69 00:02:59,365 --> 00:03:02,245 That could be from no code interfaces where 70 00:03:02,245 --> 00:03:04,885 people just have to twiddle some buttons and 71 00:03:04,885 --> 00:03:07,064 some magical quantum things will come out. 72 00:03:07,844 --> 00:03:09,145 Or it could be to, 73 00:03:09,925 --> 00:03:10,425 like, 74 00:03:11,284 --> 00:03:14,485 higher level programming languages that people could use 75 00:03:14,485 --> 00:03:15,650 to create their own, 76 00:03:16,430 --> 00:03:17,409 quantum software. 77 00:03:18,669 --> 00:03:20,830 As for how many employees we have, 78 00:03:21,150 --> 00:03:22,209 I don't know exactly. 79 00:03:22,509 --> 00:03:24,830 I'd say 15 to 20 is a sort 80 00:03:24,830 --> 00:03:26,610 of level where that we are at. 81 00:03:27,069 --> 00:03:30,129 I see. And and are those people mostly 82 00:03:30,715 --> 00:03:32,734 sort of quantum people, physicists, 83 00:03:33,674 --> 00:03:35,674 engineers, or or do you also have, 84 00:03:36,555 --> 00:03:38,314 I don't know, for for lack of a 85 00:03:38,314 --> 00:03:38,954 better word, 86 00:03:39,354 --> 00:03:40,655 creative people, musicians, 87 00:03:41,674 --> 00:03:42,174 artists, 88 00:03:42,474 --> 00:03:42,974 etcetera, 89 00:03:43,834 --> 00:03:44,734 on your staff? 90 00:03:45,189 --> 00:03:47,509 Yeah. Well, as a small company, it's good, 91 00:03:47,830 --> 00:03:49,909 that if people can do multiple things at 92 00:03:49,909 --> 00:03:50,810 once. So, 93 00:03:51,750 --> 00:03:53,509 we would like to have people who are 94 00:03:53,509 --> 00:03:55,530 quantum people and creative people. 95 00:03:56,310 --> 00:03:58,675 But, yeah, we have a research division and 96 00:03:58,675 --> 00:04:00,854 that's based, here in Basel in Switzerland, 97 00:04:01,955 --> 00:04:03,574 where people come from 98 00:04:04,194 --> 00:04:04,935 a a background 99 00:04:05,474 --> 00:04:08,594 in quantum, but they also bring expertise from 100 00:04:08,594 --> 00:04:10,614 various creative areas as well, 101 00:04:11,155 --> 00:04:12,215 either with a 102 00:04:12,669 --> 00:04:15,469 long standing passion for music or someone who, 103 00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:18,910 has has made their own quantum educational board 104 00:04:18,910 --> 00:04:19,410 games. 105 00:04:19,949 --> 00:04:21,170 We have team members, 106 00:04:21,949 --> 00:04:22,449 covering 107 00:04:22,990 --> 00:04:24,449 a full spectrum here. 108 00:04:24,990 --> 00:04:26,024 We also have 109 00:04:26,584 --> 00:04:28,125 another office in London. 110 00:04:28,985 --> 00:04:31,305 And in that office, we have more the 111 00:04:31,305 --> 00:04:34,264 the engineers, and those engineers are are usually 112 00:04:34,264 --> 00:04:36,664 from creative backgrounds. So we have one engineer 113 00:04:36,664 --> 00:04:39,164 who's just finished her master's degree, 114 00:04:40,713 --> 00:04:42,680 at, the University of Arts London, 115 00:04:43,860 --> 00:04:46,100 but is, deep in the code of of 116 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:47,639 quantum computing as well. 117 00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:50,980 I see. So, James, before we we sort 118 00:04:50,980 --> 00:04:52,899 of focus in on some of the projects 119 00:04:52,899 --> 00:04:55,264 that you're working on at Moth, Can you 120 00:04:55,264 --> 00:04:57,365 give us a a broad stroke 121 00:04:57,824 --> 00:05:00,884 description of why quantum computing technologies 122 00:05:01,665 --> 00:05:04,004 can be useful for creating music, 123 00:05:04,785 --> 00:05:06,805 video games, visual art? 124 00:05:08,019 --> 00:05:08,759 Yeah. Sure. 125 00:05:09,060 --> 00:05:10,899 I think this is probably a question people 126 00:05:10,899 --> 00:05:13,139 asked at the beginning of computing as a 127 00:05:13,139 --> 00:05:15,860 whole, why people might wanna apply it to 128 00:05:15,860 --> 00:05:17,879 creativity. But, actually, 129 00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:19,939 games and music were some of the first 130 00:05:19,939 --> 00:05:21,884 things that people experimented with. 131 00:05:22,444 --> 00:05:24,845 Because the creative space is such a a 132 00:05:24,845 --> 00:05:27,264 large one, there are so many computational problems, 133 00:05:28,285 --> 00:05:30,225 that one could try to tackle. 134 00:05:31,004 --> 00:05:34,685 And so quantum computers coming and bringing their 135 00:05:34,685 --> 00:05:37,665 unique ability to solve certain kinds of problems, 136 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:40,629 it's inevitable that we'll find problems within the 137 00:05:40,629 --> 00:05:41,689 creative space 138 00:05:42,149 --> 00:05:42,649 that, 139 00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:46,069 are relevant for that. But also, quantum has 140 00:05:46,069 --> 00:05:49,110 also always been something that is inspirational for 141 00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:49,610 people. 142 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:53,535 And so there's also the aspect that it's 143 00:05:53,774 --> 00:05:55,235 quantum as inspiration, 144 00:05:56,574 --> 00:05:59,214 as something that people can can use to 145 00:05:59,214 --> 00:06:01,694 get sort of new insights. And so this 146 00:06:01,694 --> 00:06:04,014 is actually one thing that's really exciting about 147 00:06:04,014 --> 00:06:05,634 working in this area 148 00:06:06,149 --> 00:06:08,330 is that you're not searching for 149 00:06:08,790 --> 00:06:11,350 a specific right answer as you are when 150 00:06:11,350 --> 00:06:13,509 you are doing quantum chemistry and trying to 151 00:06:13,509 --> 00:06:14,649 calculate an energy 152 00:06:14,949 --> 00:06:15,689 or doing, 153 00:06:16,149 --> 00:06:18,410 factoring and trying to calculate factors. 154 00:06:19,269 --> 00:06:20,009 There is 155 00:06:20,709 --> 00:06:21,370 a realm 156 00:06:21,904 --> 00:06:24,084 before that in which it's just 157 00:06:25,264 --> 00:06:27,745 exploring the new technology and what it can 158 00:06:27,745 --> 00:06:28,245 do 159 00:06:28,785 --> 00:06:31,285 and finding unique insights from that. 160 00:06:32,305 --> 00:06:33,285 And procedural 161 00:06:34,064 --> 00:06:34,564 generation 162 00:06:34,944 --> 00:06:35,764 for games, 163 00:06:36,259 --> 00:06:37,779 That's one of the targets, 164 00:06:38,180 --> 00:06:41,060 that you have for quantum computing. What is 165 00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:41,560 procedural 166 00:06:41,939 --> 00:06:42,439 generation, 167 00:06:42,819 --> 00:06:45,319 and how could it benefit from a quantum 168 00:06:45,539 --> 00:06:46,600 computing approach? 169 00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:50,439 Yeah. So procedural generation is the algorithmic 170 00:06:50,819 --> 00:06:54,334 generation of content for things like games. 171 00:06:55,435 --> 00:06:58,154 Although it could also include things for other 172 00:06:58,154 --> 00:07:01,055 areas, as well, such as in CGI, 173 00:07:01,514 --> 00:07:02,014 just, 174 00:07:02,555 --> 00:07:03,055 generating 175 00:07:03,675 --> 00:07:05,375 textures is used to make, 176 00:07:06,235 --> 00:07:08,339 things less plasticky sometimes. 177 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,919 But, I think of it mostly as its 178 00:07:11,919 --> 00:07:14,560 application in games, and there is generating content, 179 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,539 which could be, 180 00:07:16,079 --> 00:07:18,240 levels. It could be story lines. It could 181 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:18,740 be, 182 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,699 characters. It could be all kinds of things. 183 00:07:22,514 --> 00:07:26,615 And, this differs from the current generative AI 184 00:07:26,834 --> 00:07:29,394 where you just, you know, you throw a 185 00:07:29,394 --> 00:07:31,894 million pictures of of cats and dogs 186 00:07:32,514 --> 00:07:32,995 into, 187 00:07:33,634 --> 00:07:36,274 an AI technology and it will eventually learn 188 00:07:36,274 --> 00:07:38,639 what a cat is, And it might then 189 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:40,959 be able to generate new cats. But in 190 00:07:40,959 --> 00:07:44,240 procedural generation, it's more handmade. It's more tailored. 191 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,080 You have to understand what it is you 192 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:46,740 are generating. 193 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,500 You have to know the rules. 194 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,464 And then the task is to try and 195 00:07:51,704 --> 00:07:54,044 generate something as new and as unique, 196 00:07:54,745 --> 00:07:55,245 within 197 00:07:55,704 --> 00:07:56,524 those constraints, 198 00:07:58,105 --> 00:07:59,004 as you can, 199 00:08:00,024 --> 00:08:01,084 while satisfying 200 00:08:01,464 --> 00:08:02,204 those rules. 201 00:08:03,384 --> 00:08:05,399 And so, essentially, it's 202 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,139 it's a problem as constraint satisfiability. 203 00:08:08,519 --> 00:08:10,759 You have certain constraints, and you you want 204 00:08:10,759 --> 00:08:13,660 to find something that satisfies them while 205 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,339 exploring the possibility space as much as possible. 206 00:08:17,735 --> 00:08:19,975 And this is is very hard because, 207 00:08:20,774 --> 00:08:21,754 constraint satisfiability 208 00:08:22,055 --> 00:08:23,435 problems are hard 209 00:08:23,975 --> 00:08:24,634 to solve. 210 00:08:25,495 --> 00:08:27,595 So people do it in different ways. 211 00:08:28,455 --> 00:08:30,810 But because of that, they sometimes roll run 212 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:33,450 into what's called the 10,000 bowls of oatmeal 213 00:08:33,450 --> 00:08:35,389 problem, where you have a generator 214 00:08:35,929 --> 00:08:39,129 that is technically generating something very unique every 215 00:08:39,129 --> 00:08:40,730 time, but just not doing it in a 216 00:08:40,730 --> 00:08:42,590 way that people perceptually 217 00:08:43,210 --> 00:08:45,690 care about. Just as every bowl of porridge 218 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:46,350 is unique, 219 00:08:46,704 --> 00:08:48,565 but no one cares about the difference 220 00:08:49,584 --> 00:08:52,245 between today's and yesterday's. It's all the same. 221 00:08:52,784 --> 00:08:55,524 So having ways to really drive at the 222 00:08:55,745 --> 00:08:58,245 constraints of the liability problems and the optimization 223 00:08:58,464 --> 00:09:00,959 problems, well, are now new tools to help 224 00:09:00,959 --> 00:09:03,299 people who are building these generative systems. 225 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,240 I see. And, you know, the fact that 226 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:07,919 quantum mechanics is all about, 227 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:09,779 probability 228 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:11,459 and and correlations, 229 00:09:11,919 --> 00:09:14,144 does that does that sort of help? I 230 00:09:14,144 --> 00:09:15,745 mean, I I think I might be getting 231 00:09:15,745 --> 00:09:18,225 a bit sort of quantum woo y here, 232 00:09:18,225 --> 00:09:20,144 but I'm sort of thinking of, you know, 233 00:09:20,144 --> 00:09:20,884 the multiverse 234 00:09:21,745 --> 00:09:24,384 in a game, and, you know, allowing quantum 235 00:09:24,384 --> 00:09:24,884 states 236 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:25,700 to 237 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:26,660 evolve. 238 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,040 Am I sort of out to lunch on 239 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,340 that or is there something 240 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:31,779 is there something there? 241 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,279 Yeah. There was, an app a few actually 242 00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:38,179 probably about ten years ago called Universe Splitter, 243 00:09:38,674 --> 00:09:39,174 which, 244 00:09:39,634 --> 00:09:40,134 took, 245 00:09:41,714 --> 00:09:43,815 photons from Eddy Quantic, 246 00:09:44,754 --> 00:09:47,095 and measured them in one or the other, 247 00:09:48,274 --> 00:09:50,274 basis. And and you use that as a 248 00:09:50,274 --> 00:09:52,355 as a decision maker. So you would put 249 00:09:52,355 --> 00:09:54,929 in, shall I have pizza tonight or not? 250 00:09:54,929 --> 00:09:56,850 And then you would get the universe splitter 251 00:09:56,850 --> 00:09:58,769 to do it. And it's quite, like, quite 252 00:09:58,769 --> 00:10:02,050 the most narrative there that in theory, if 253 00:10:02,050 --> 00:10:04,529 you believe in the in the many world 254 00:10:04,529 --> 00:10:07,170 interpretation, then in the other universe, you're having 255 00:10:07,170 --> 00:10:09,225 pizza, but in this universe, you're not. 256 00:10:10,644 --> 00:10:13,125 So there's there's things that people could be 257 00:10:13,125 --> 00:10:15,284 inspired by in this area. But for me, 258 00:10:15,284 --> 00:10:15,945 the probabilities 259 00:10:17,205 --> 00:10:19,304 are more of a nuisance than they are 260 00:10:19,445 --> 00:10:21,544 a help because I think people 261 00:10:21,899 --> 00:10:24,539 often think of procedure generation as something very 262 00:10:24,539 --> 00:10:26,299 random even though you have to put a 263 00:10:26,299 --> 00:10:27,679 lot of effort into 264 00:10:28,299 --> 00:10:30,779 into constraining it. And you often do it 265 00:10:30,779 --> 00:10:33,019 in a seeded way. So you with a 266 00:10:33,019 --> 00:10:35,519 definite seed, you produce a definite outcome. 267 00:10:36,504 --> 00:10:39,085 So the randomness of quantum is not necessarily 268 00:10:39,784 --> 00:10:42,105 a good thing. I much prefer when running 269 00:10:42,105 --> 00:10:44,924 circuits to be calculating expectation values 270 00:10:45,384 --> 00:10:47,565 and therefore be to be getting the nice, 271 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,179 solid, predictable things 272 00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:51,620 rather than, 273 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:54,480 relying on the randomness. That's not really what 274 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,980 we wanna do. I see. Okay. 275 00:10:57,759 --> 00:10:58,160 And, 276 00:10:58,879 --> 00:11:03,460 using artificial intelligence for generating characters in games 277 00:11:03,894 --> 00:11:07,754 is another quantum application that, that the company's 278 00:11:07,815 --> 00:11:09,834 interested in. Why would quantum 279 00:11:10,375 --> 00:11:12,315 AI be better than conventional 280 00:11:12,934 --> 00:11:15,034 AI for character generation? 281 00:11:15,495 --> 00:11:17,034 And and maybe you can start, 282 00:11:17,654 --> 00:11:19,440 by I mean, could you give us a 283 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,820 taste of what what does character generation mean 284 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,340 in a in a game? 285 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:25,540 Yeah. 286 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,720 Well, it's essentially, one can think of it 287 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,440 as another part of procedural generation, and indeed 288 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,000 people often think of procedural generation as a 289 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,075 branch of AI. 290 00:11:35,455 --> 00:11:37,294 So it's just a continuation in some ways 291 00:11:37,294 --> 00:11:38,514 of what I said before. 292 00:11:39,134 --> 00:11:41,615 For characters, it could be from things like 293 00:11:41,615 --> 00:11:42,434 just generating 294 00:11:42,894 --> 00:11:44,514 what the character looks like. 295 00:11:45,455 --> 00:11:45,934 But, 296 00:11:46,894 --> 00:11:50,100 maybe more pertinent for this question is 297 00:11:50,899 --> 00:11:53,959 is broader things like the, the storyline 298 00:11:54,659 --> 00:11:56,659 of a game. So you might be generating 299 00:11:56,659 --> 00:11:58,279 a game and that game has 300 00:11:58,659 --> 00:11:59,319 a narrative. 301 00:12:00,179 --> 00:12:00,659 And, 302 00:12:01,620 --> 00:12:03,959 and then you can procedurally generate 303 00:12:04,419 --> 00:12:04,919 that 304 00:12:05,414 --> 00:12:05,914 narrative. 305 00:12:06,534 --> 00:12:07,595 And for that, 306 00:12:07,975 --> 00:12:09,815 you need to have some way of encoding 307 00:12:09,815 --> 00:12:12,134 the narrative. Like with any procedure generation, you 308 00:12:12,134 --> 00:12:13,434 need to know what you're generating 309 00:12:13,975 --> 00:12:14,475 to, 310 00:12:15,575 --> 00:12:17,575 encode everything in the right way in your 311 00:12:17,575 --> 00:12:18,075 generator. 312 00:12:18,534 --> 00:12:20,620 And so one can ask the question, 313 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,779 what kinds of information 314 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:23,980 are more 315 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:25,259 naturally 316 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:26,539 encoded 317 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:28,460 in quantum systems 318 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:29,580 than 319 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,105 in classical systems in bits? And, of course, 320 00:12:33,105 --> 00:12:33,845 we know 321 00:12:34,384 --> 00:12:38,544 completely obvious that quantum states are more naturally 322 00:12:38,544 --> 00:12:40,165 encoded in quantum systems. 323 00:12:40,785 --> 00:12:43,665 You know, it's much easier to make a 324 00:12:43,665 --> 00:12:44,165 superposition 325 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,480 than it is to write down all of 326 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:47,220 the coefficients 327 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:48,340 in binary. 328 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,160 But that doesn't mean it's just restricted to, 329 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,019 quantum physics. There's also, 330 00:12:54,799 --> 00:12:56,960 evidence that other kinds of information are more 331 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:57,460 naturally 332 00:12:58,154 --> 00:13:00,575 encoded in quantum systems as well. 333 00:13:00,955 --> 00:13:01,855 And one 334 00:13:02,235 --> 00:13:03,534 that, some of our, 335 00:13:05,195 --> 00:13:05,855 some people 336 00:13:06,235 --> 00:13:09,674 at, Continuum have been looking at is natural 337 00:13:09,674 --> 00:13:13,294 language processing, particularly using this framework called Discocat. 338 00:13:14,450 --> 00:13:15,509 So this is 339 00:13:16,290 --> 00:13:18,610 a way of showing that, the kinds of 340 00:13:18,610 --> 00:13:21,350 mathematical structures that are good for 341 00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:23,509 encoding quantum states 342 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:26,070 are also good for encoding 343 00:13:26,634 --> 00:13:29,694 the kinds of structures, the grammatical structures 344 00:13:30,235 --> 00:13:32,894 that you get in in natural language. 345 00:13:33,595 --> 00:13:36,254 And grammar is something that also, 346 00:13:37,034 --> 00:13:40,394 exists beyond language. So you can use ideas 347 00:13:40,394 --> 00:13:42,649 from grammar to kind of 348 00:13:43,029 --> 00:13:45,190 if you think of the the narrative of 349 00:13:45,190 --> 00:13:46,649 a game as 350 00:13:46,950 --> 00:13:49,829 essentially a very large sentence in which all 351 00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:51,929 other of sentences in the game were just 352 00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:54,644 subsets on. That that structure can also be 353 00:13:54,644 --> 00:13:55,465 expressed grammatically 354 00:13:56,004 --> 00:13:58,965 and other things in procedural gen generation. So 355 00:13:58,965 --> 00:14:00,105 the idea of grammars 356 00:14:00,725 --> 00:14:02,965 is something that even in the classical world 357 00:14:02,965 --> 00:14:05,304 is is very important in procedural generation. 358 00:14:05,845 --> 00:14:07,830 And so, we can help 359 00:14:08,309 --> 00:14:10,009 port some of those insights 360 00:14:10,549 --> 00:14:11,029 from, 361 00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:13,129 things like natural language processing 362 00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:17,049 over to procedure generation and also music. 363 00:14:18,309 --> 00:14:20,389 I see. And and and so is the 364 00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:23,205 is the idea here that using a quantum 365 00:14:23,205 --> 00:14:24,825 system, it will give you 366 00:14:25,205 --> 00:14:26,024 a computational 367 00:14:26,485 --> 00:14:28,404 advantage in the sense that you'll be able 368 00:14:28,404 --> 00:14:28,904 to, 369 00:14:29,845 --> 00:14:30,904 you know, compute, 370 00:14:31,285 --> 00:14:33,384 the things that you need for a game, 371 00:14:34,404 --> 00:14:37,225 much more quickly than a conventional com computer 372 00:14:37,285 --> 00:14:38,639 or even a conventional 373 00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:40,959 computer couldn't make those 374 00:14:41,259 --> 00:14:43,259 calculations? Or or is it more of a, 375 00:14:43,259 --> 00:14:45,740 sort of, a quality thing in the sense 376 00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:46,139 that, 377 00:14:46,779 --> 00:14:49,419 the stuff that you can get out of 378 00:14:49,419 --> 00:14:50,079 a quantum 379 00:14:50,695 --> 00:14:52,154 calculation is more 380 00:14:52,695 --> 00:14:54,714 realistic or more desirable 381 00:14:55,254 --> 00:14:57,334 to users, or or maybe it's a bit 382 00:14:57,334 --> 00:14:57,914 of both? 383 00:14:59,014 --> 00:15:00,954 Well, absolutely, it's a bit of both. 384 00:15:01,334 --> 00:15:03,115 And also I think it depends 385 00:15:03,495 --> 00:15:04,634 when we're talking 386 00:15:05,139 --> 00:15:05,620 because, 387 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:06,839 so we 388 00:15:07,459 --> 00:15:10,179 we believe that a quantum advantage will come 389 00:15:10,179 --> 00:15:12,579 when we have fault tolerant quantum computers, and 390 00:15:12,579 --> 00:15:14,259 we don't rule out the idea that a 391 00:15:14,259 --> 00:15:16,279 quantum advantage will come before then. 392 00:15:17,059 --> 00:15:20,445 But we also are definitely not betting on 393 00:15:20,445 --> 00:15:22,764 it. So a quantum advantage being a time 394 00:15:22,764 --> 00:15:25,485 when a quantum computer can do can solve 395 00:15:25,485 --> 00:15:25,985 problems 396 00:15:26,524 --> 00:15:27,024 that 397 00:15:27,965 --> 00:15:30,225 conventional digital computers could not. 398 00:15:31,164 --> 00:15:31,404 So 399 00:15:32,330 --> 00:15:34,090 yeah, we we want to have things that 400 00:15:34,090 --> 00:15:36,409 are based on concrete speed ups. We want 401 00:15:36,409 --> 00:15:37,230 to be solving 402 00:15:37,529 --> 00:15:39,870 problems that are useful for the creative industries 403 00:15:40,090 --> 00:15:42,570 in ways that are are faster or more 404 00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:46,064 accurately, really, quantum computers aren't about speeding up 405 00:15:46,064 --> 00:15:47,125 things that already, 406 00:15:48,064 --> 00:15:50,884 run at a decent rate. They're about 407 00:15:51,264 --> 00:15:53,664 speeding up problems that we would currently not 408 00:15:53,664 --> 00:15:55,444 even think about. And therefore, 409 00:15:55,824 --> 00:15:57,904 we we'll be able to we're able to 410 00:15:57,904 --> 00:15:58,804 get new tools, 411 00:15:59,539 --> 00:16:01,620 that we wouldn't have had before. So having 412 00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:02,120 those, 413 00:16:02,740 --> 00:16:05,779 computational speed ups is very important, but that's 414 00:16:05,779 --> 00:16:08,339 for the fault tolerant era. So we're planning 415 00:16:08,339 --> 00:16:10,980 towards that, but we don't plan to deploy 416 00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:13,000 any products with computational advantage 417 00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:14,715 anytime soon. 418 00:16:15,355 --> 00:16:18,315 Within the NIST era, we have devices. We 419 00:16:18,315 --> 00:16:19,295 can use them. 420 00:16:19,835 --> 00:16:21,695 And for that, it is more about 421 00:16:22,475 --> 00:16:24,335 creating something that is, 422 00:16:25,434 --> 00:16:27,835 unique. And so it's more about the quality 423 00:16:27,835 --> 00:16:28,559 of the results 424 00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,000 than than anything else. So if we for 425 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,320 example, one thing that we are quite interested 426 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,039 in is looking at simulations of quantum time 427 00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:37,539 evolution 428 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,240 because this is something that quantum computers are 429 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,519 very good at. It's one of the things 430 00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:43,679 that quantum computers are naturally good at, so 431 00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:45,554 we we can see good results in the 432 00:16:45,554 --> 00:16:48,274 NISC era. It's something that a lot of 433 00:16:48,274 --> 00:16:51,975 companies are looking at for its advantages in 434 00:16:52,034 --> 00:16:54,214 in health care and material design. 435 00:16:54,595 --> 00:16:56,294 So, there's gonna be 436 00:16:56,754 --> 00:16:59,730 quantum computers and quantum software dedicated to that. 437 00:16:59,889 --> 00:17:00,709 Now how can 438 00:17:01,089 --> 00:17:03,269 we use that in the creative industries? 439 00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:04,210 And, 440 00:17:04,849 --> 00:17:06,309 well, just as a very 441 00:17:06,690 --> 00:17:07,829 hand wave of the explanation, 442 00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:11,329 physics is is very important in all of 443 00:17:11,329 --> 00:17:12,309 the creative industries. 444 00:17:13,089 --> 00:17:14,069 Musical instruments 445 00:17:15,105 --> 00:17:17,664 are physics. They are, you know, the the 446 00:17:17,664 --> 00:17:18,164 waveforms, 447 00:17:19,105 --> 00:17:21,365 that they are creating is all due 448 00:17:21,744 --> 00:17:23,365 to the physics of of 449 00:17:23,744 --> 00:17:26,705 vibration of strings, of of how it affects 450 00:17:26,705 --> 00:17:27,205 the, 451 00:17:27,585 --> 00:17:28,325 the air. 452 00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:32,089 In in games, you use simulations of physics 453 00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:33,929 in order to implement, 454 00:17:34,869 --> 00:17:36,650 certain game mechanics. A lot 455 00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:39,289 of a lot of games are based around, 456 00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:40,390 the 457 00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:43,049 how things fall and how things 458 00:17:43,589 --> 00:17:44,089 move. 459 00:17:44,855 --> 00:17:47,255 So physics is very important within game engines. 460 00:17:47,255 --> 00:17:49,595 And in fact, game engines are often used 461 00:17:49,815 --> 00:17:51,355 outside the game industry 462 00:17:51,894 --> 00:17:53,994 because of how good they are at physics. 463 00:17:54,215 --> 00:17:56,529 I was at a games conference recently where 464 00:17:56,529 --> 00:17:58,849 there was a talk by people who worked 465 00:17:58,849 --> 00:18:00,710 from one of the formula one teams 466 00:18:01,089 --> 00:18:01,990 on how they 467 00:18:02,289 --> 00:18:05,490 simulate the tracks for the for the players 468 00:18:05,490 --> 00:18:07,490 to practice on. So, I think, 469 00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:10,369 physics and visual media is also interesting. You 470 00:18:10,369 --> 00:18:11,430 get a lot of 471 00:18:12,034 --> 00:18:15,394 artists now who are producing digital media, producing 472 00:18:15,394 --> 00:18:16,375 things like animations, 473 00:18:16,835 --> 00:18:17,654 and these 474 00:18:18,115 --> 00:18:20,275 are using some sort of simulation of physics 475 00:18:20,275 --> 00:18:22,934 as well. So then the idea is, well, 476 00:18:23,075 --> 00:18:25,649 what about quantum physics? And in fact, in 477 00:18:25,649 --> 00:18:28,609 some of our artistic collaborations so far, they 478 00:18:28,609 --> 00:18:31,250 have been using ideas and simulations from quantum 479 00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:32,710 physics to generate 480 00:18:33,009 --> 00:18:34,630 things that they find very inspirational. 481 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:37,569 I made a thing called Quantum Blurb back 482 00:18:37,569 --> 00:18:38,789 in my time at IBM, 483 00:18:39,434 --> 00:18:39,934 which, 484 00:18:41,034 --> 00:18:43,214 was it it basically intended 485 00:18:43,755 --> 00:18:44,815 as a 486 00:18:45,115 --> 00:18:46,954 a toy to for people to play within 487 00:18:46,954 --> 00:18:47,454 hackathons. 488 00:18:47,914 --> 00:18:50,634 Because coming back to my hatred of, quantum 489 00:18:50,634 --> 00:18:51,134 randomness, 490 00:18:51,809 --> 00:18:53,269 I found that when 491 00:18:53,569 --> 00:18:55,429 there were quantum game jams, 492 00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:58,049 then often people who had no idea about 493 00:18:58,049 --> 00:18:59,970 quantum would come to the quantum game jam 494 00:18:59,970 --> 00:19:01,730 with the idea of making a game and 495 00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:03,269 learning something about quantum. 496 00:19:03,649 --> 00:19:05,250 This is what people often do at game 497 00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:06,769 jams. They make a game over a short 498 00:19:06,769 --> 00:19:08,505 amount of time and use it as an 499 00:19:08,505 --> 00:19:11,384 opportunity to learn some new piece of programming 500 00:19:11,384 --> 00:19:13,384 that they haven't done before. So they came 501 00:19:13,384 --> 00:19:14,365 to learn quantum, 502 00:19:14,904 --> 00:19:16,825 but as far as they got into quantum 503 00:19:16,825 --> 00:19:18,445 was learning that if you do a Hadamard 504 00:19:18,505 --> 00:19:19,325 and then a measurement 505 00:19:20,505 --> 00:19:22,184 in a quantum circuit, then you get a 506 00:19:22,184 --> 00:19:23,404 random number generator. 507 00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:25,460 They made the random number generator, 508 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,000 and then they made a game around it, 509 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,779 which was entirely non quantum. 510 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,339 So I thought it's good to help people 511 00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:34,880 start off not at the ground level, but 512 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,960 at something a little bit more sophisticated by 513 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,565 giving them a tool that does 514 00:19:38,884 --> 00:19:39,384 something. 515 00:19:39,684 --> 00:19:42,105 So I made this thing based on simulations 516 00:19:42,964 --> 00:19:45,704 of essentially simulations of quantum time evolution, 517 00:19:46,565 --> 00:19:48,325 that could be used to generate the kind 518 00:19:48,325 --> 00:19:50,904 of textures that you can use in very 519 00:19:51,044 --> 00:19:52,585 simple terrain generation, 520 00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:54,470 in procedural generation. 521 00:19:56,609 --> 00:19:58,849 And this was picked up by an artist 522 00:19:58,849 --> 00:20:00,369 who has now been using it as his 523 00:20:00,369 --> 00:20:02,450 main tool of expression for the last five 524 00:20:02,450 --> 00:20:04,869 years, and he tells me that he could 525 00:20:05,009 --> 00:20:06,710 keep on going until he dies 526 00:20:07,170 --> 00:20:07,670 just 527 00:20:08,065 --> 00:20:11,045 basing his art on on quantum blur. 528 00:20:11,825 --> 00:20:12,325 So, 529 00:20:12,705 --> 00:20:14,244 yeah, it's really become the 530 00:20:14,865 --> 00:20:16,705 the quality of the output is is what 531 00:20:16,705 --> 00:20:19,285 is important to him. He finds it inspirational, 532 00:20:19,744 --> 00:20:21,345 and this is something that we see with 533 00:20:21,345 --> 00:20:23,750 other artists as well, not just in visual 534 00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:24,730 media, but also 535 00:20:25,349 --> 00:20:27,769 in in in, music as well. 536 00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:30,630 I see. So so the company's interest in 537 00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:31,450 in visual 538 00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:32,890 art 539 00:20:33,349 --> 00:20:34,169 goes beyond, 540 00:20:35,109 --> 00:20:36,890 creating visuals for games. 541 00:20:37,304 --> 00:20:39,304 You're you're working with artists. I mean, do 542 00:20:39,304 --> 00:20:42,024 do you work with people in film and 543 00:20:42,024 --> 00:20:43,484 television, for example, 544 00:20:43,944 --> 00:20:44,605 to create, 545 00:20:45,544 --> 00:20:46,044 visuals 546 00:20:46,585 --> 00:20:48,585 for for those media, or is that is 547 00:20:48,585 --> 00:20:50,444 that something possibly for the future? 548 00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:53,830 So well, we're a young company, so we 549 00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:56,170 have lots of plans and lots of contacts. 550 00:20:56,309 --> 00:20:56,549 And, 551 00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:58,410 we are actively 552 00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:59,289 pursuing 553 00:20:59,750 --> 00:21:02,009 those kinds of, activities at the moment. 554 00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:04,570 But it's not not anything we've got 555 00:21:04,924 --> 00:21:05,424 signed 556 00:21:05,804 --> 00:21:07,724 up that I've got a a nice official 557 00:21:07,724 --> 00:21:09,565 thing that I can, talk about it on 558 00:21:09,565 --> 00:21:10,865 a podcast and provide. 559 00:21:11,884 --> 00:21:13,325 I see. Well, we'll have to we'll have 560 00:21:13,325 --> 00:21:15,325 to get you get you back to talk 561 00:21:15,325 --> 00:21:18,544 about that. And finally, James, music is also 562 00:21:18,924 --> 00:21:19,980 a a a very big, 563 00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:22,880 target, I suppose, for MOTH. Company's 564 00:21:23,339 --> 00:21:24,640 very active in 565 00:21:25,259 --> 00:21:25,759 developing, 566 00:21:26,299 --> 00:21:29,200 something called AKTIA. Did I say that right? 567 00:21:29,339 --> 00:21:32,079 AkTIA? It's AKTIAUS as an s. AKTIAUS. 568 00:21:32,380 --> 00:21:33,440 Oh, sorry. AKTIAUS. 569 00:21:34,315 --> 00:21:35,455 And that's a quantum 570 00:21:35,914 --> 00:21:37,855 synthesizer and sound controller. 571 00:21:38,235 --> 00:21:40,235 Can you can you talk about that? How 572 00:21:40,235 --> 00:21:42,815 does it use quantum physics to make music? 573 00:21:43,674 --> 00:21:44,174 Yeah. 574 00:21:44,555 --> 00:21:45,615 So well, 575 00:21:46,075 --> 00:21:47,615 the names of all of our products. 576 00:21:48,179 --> 00:21:50,019 So this is maybe one thing just to 577 00:21:50,019 --> 00:21:51,879 take an aside to to emphasize. 578 00:21:52,179 --> 00:21:54,019 Yeah. We we are a company that wants 579 00:21:54,019 --> 00:21:56,179 to be building products based on quantum computing. 580 00:21:56,179 --> 00:21:58,039 Even though we don't think a quantum advantage 581 00:21:58,339 --> 00:22:00,519 is necessarily coming into a fault tolerance, 582 00:22:01,619 --> 00:22:02,919 we can still be 583 00:22:03,315 --> 00:22:04,214 building products, 584 00:22:05,315 --> 00:22:06,134 in the meantime. 585 00:22:06,755 --> 00:22:09,234 And so Acteus is kind of step zero, 586 00:22:09,234 --> 00:22:11,815 you might say, because it's entirely based around, 587 00:22:12,914 --> 00:22:14,934 simulations of of of quantum. 588 00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:17,650 So you're emulating a quantum computer rather than 589 00:22:17,650 --> 00:22:19,349 actually running on a quantum computer. 590 00:22:20,049 --> 00:22:21,269 And it's essentially, 591 00:22:22,210 --> 00:22:23,990 you could think of it as an educational 592 00:22:24,130 --> 00:22:26,529 tool or or a way of getting your 593 00:22:26,529 --> 00:22:29,269 first taste of of quantum because it's basically 594 00:22:29,634 --> 00:22:31,794 a block sphere that you plug into a 595 00:22:31,794 --> 00:22:32,294 synthesizer. 596 00:22:33,154 --> 00:22:35,075 So a block sphere is a representation of 597 00:22:35,075 --> 00:22:35,654 a single, 598 00:22:36,275 --> 00:22:36,775 qubit. 599 00:22:37,394 --> 00:22:40,355 So, you know, for I've been talking maybe 600 00:22:40,355 --> 00:22:42,355 throughout most of this assuming people know what 601 00:22:42,355 --> 00:22:44,730 quantum computing is, but, of course, it's built 602 00:22:44,730 --> 00:22:46,890 on the qubit, the the two level quantum 603 00:22:46,890 --> 00:22:47,390 system. 604 00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:48,990 And so, 605 00:22:50,170 --> 00:22:51,930 this means that you can you have these 606 00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:54,410 two number two complex values. You have these 607 00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:55,549 restrictions of normalization, 608 00:22:56,325 --> 00:22:57,704 which means that the mathematics 609 00:22:58,085 --> 00:22:58,904 of a qubit 610 00:22:59,284 --> 00:23:02,565 or just one qubit is essentially the same 611 00:23:02,565 --> 00:23:03,544 as the mathematics 612 00:23:03,924 --> 00:23:05,944 of a of a point on a sphere. 613 00:23:06,325 --> 00:23:09,125 So there's this great jet, a visualization of 614 00:23:09,125 --> 00:23:10,980 what's going on in a qubit with what's 615 00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:12,519 going on in the point of a sphere. 616 00:23:13,059 --> 00:23:14,579 On on the point of a sphere, you 617 00:23:14,579 --> 00:23:16,660 have the x axis, the y axis, the 618 00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:18,359 zed axis telling you where your 619 00:23:18,819 --> 00:23:21,619 where your position is. So you could those 620 00:23:21,619 --> 00:23:23,494 are three real numbers that you could plug 621 00:23:23,494 --> 00:23:24,315 into various, 622 00:23:24,934 --> 00:23:26,715 knobs and dials on a synthesizer. 623 00:23:28,215 --> 00:23:31,515 So then you can be placing quantum gates 624 00:23:31,894 --> 00:23:33,275 and seeing how that, 625 00:23:33,735 --> 00:23:36,455 affects the point that you're at on the 626 00:23:36,455 --> 00:23:37,259 block sphere. 627 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:39,259 So you look at the block sphere, you 628 00:23:39,259 --> 00:23:40,079 get an idea, 629 00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:41,680 from that visualization. 630 00:23:42,539 --> 00:23:43,759 But, with 631 00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:46,859 by plugging into a synthesizer, it also gives 632 00:23:46,859 --> 00:23:48,619 you a way of sonifying it and giving 633 00:23:48,619 --> 00:23:50,575 you maybe a bit more of a hands 634 00:23:50,575 --> 00:23:52,654 on experience of what happens when you put 635 00:23:52,654 --> 00:23:54,035 those quantum gates in. 636 00:23:55,375 --> 00:23:57,955 Yeah. So that's that's what we're doing 637 00:23:58,494 --> 00:23:58,894 with, 638 00:23:59,535 --> 00:24:00,035 Actias. 639 00:24:00,494 --> 00:24:02,414 But also another thing that we have out 640 00:24:02,414 --> 00:24:05,170 currently is our quantum audio package. So this 641 00:24:05,170 --> 00:24:07,730 is a Python package, and it's it's also 642 00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:08,630 music based. 643 00:24:09,089 --> 00:24:10,930 It's it's taking a few different ways that 644 00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:13,589 people over time have proposed encoding music 645 00:24:14,049 --> 00:24:15,269 in quantum systems 646 00:24:15,570 --> 00:24:17,330 and also taken a few different ways that 647 00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:18,309 people have proposed, 648 00:24:19,224 --> 00:24:19,724 encoding 649 00:24:20,025 --> 00:24:22,744 images in quantum systems and then hacked them 650 00:24:22,744 --> 00:24:24,125 to do music instead. 651 00:24:24,984 --> 00:24:26,924 And then that gives you a way 652 00:24:27,544 --> 00:24:29,704 of encoding music in quantum systems in a 653 00:24:29,704 --> 00:24:31,804 in a more sophisticated way than in Actias, 654 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,880 but in also less of a a fun 655 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,859 hands on way. 656 00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:39,119 I see. And and just in terms of, 657 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:40,820 you know, your customers, 658 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:42,259 how 659 00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:44,000 would 660 00:24:44,904 --> 00:24:46,924 I mean, you mentioned that you are simulating 661 00:24:47,065 --> 00:24:49,964 quantum computers for for some of these applications, 662 00:24:50,184 --> 00:24:50,684 but 663 00:24:51,065 --> 00:24:53,065 would, you know, if you did have a 664 00:24:53,065 --> 00:24:54,444 a quantum algorithm 665 00:24:54,904 --> 00:24:57,545 that a customer was using to, I don't 666 00:24:57,545 --> 00:24:58,845 know, generate material 667 00:24:59,460 --> 00:25:00,200 for a 668 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:01,480 game, would they 669 00:25:01,859 --> 00:25:04,440 would they then lease time on 670 00:25:04,819 --> 00:25:07,140 on a on a quantum computer from a 671 00:25:07,140 --> 00:25:08,279 hardware provider? 672 00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:10,839 I'm you know, I'm just trying to understand 673 00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:13,220 how, you you know, the the the whole 674 00:25:13,220 --> 00:25:14,200 sort of ecosphere 675 00:25:14,579 --> 00:25:17,265 of of the industry and how how you 676 00:25:17,265 --> 00:25:18,565 would see that happening. 677 00:25:19,105 --> 00:25:19,605 Yeah. 678 00:25:19,984 --> 00:25:22,384 Yeah. So these these early things there in 679 00:25:22,384 --> 00:25:22,464 the 680 00:25:23,265 --> 00:25:25,025 or Actus at least is in the realms 681 00:25:25,025 --> 00:25:27,825 of simulation, but everything that we build in 682 00:25:27,825 --> 00:25:29,430 future, we want to be, 683 00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:32,570 moving into actually running on hardware. 684 00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:35,110 So so yeah, the infrastructure of that, how 685 00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:36,009 does that work? 686 00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:38,710 Well, one sort of dream I have in 687 00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:39,670 some ways is that, 688 00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:42,410 IBM Quantum offers everyone 689 00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:45,304 ten minutes free access on their systems 690 00:25:45,684 --> 00:25:48,244 per month. And so what would be great 691 00:25:48,244 --> 00:25:50,244 is to build the software that people can 692 00:25:50,244 --> 00:25:53,384 plug it into their IBM Quantum free access, 693 00:25:54,244 --> 00:25:57,130 and use that and, you know, really use 694 00:25:57,130 --> 00:25:59,609 those IBM quantum systems so much that they 695 00:25:59,609 --> 00:26:01,950 they have to think about revisiting that policy. 696 00:26:02,569 --> 00:26:04,829 So that that's that's the dream I have. 697 00:26:05,450 --> 00:26:05,690 But, 698 00:26:06,329 --> 00:26:07,150 more generally, 699 00:26:08,009 --> 00:26:09,929 you know, one of the main sort of 700 00:26:10,009 --> 00:26:12,169 the product of all products, the thing behind 701 00:26:12,169 --> 00:26:15,024 everything is gonna be the the infrastructure, the 702 00:26:15,024 --> 00:26:15,765 back end, 703 00:26:16,544 --> 00:26:17,044 where, 704 00:26:17,664 --> 00:26:20,384 all of our products point to this way 705 00:26:20,384 --> 00:26:22,224 that we are handling all of the quantum 706 00:26:22,224 --> 00:26:23,524 system. So the people 707 00:26:23,825 --> 00:26:24,325 themselves 708 00:26:24,625 --> 00:26:26,304 will not need to worry about, 709 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,640 how they're going to run it on a 710 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,559 quantum system, how they're gonna do the error 711 00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,299 mitigation or error correction when the time comes. 712 00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:35,220 They're not gonna need to worry 713 00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:37,920 about which device they have to use or 714 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,000 which qubits on that device are the best 715 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:40,500 qubits. 716 00:26:40,994 --> 00:26:43,494 All of that we'll take care of, 717 00:26:44,994 --> 00:26:46,835 and they just have to come along and, 718 00:26:47,394 --> 00:26:48,535 and use the product. 719 00:26:49,234 --> 00:26:50,914 I see. And if you could, you know, 720 00:26:50,914 --> 00:26:54,000 sort of gaze into your quantum crystal ball, 721 00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:57,039 when I mean, when do you think I 722 00:26:57,039 --> 00:26:59,220 mean, is that something that can happen now, 723 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,700 I mean, you know, in terms of 724 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,019 you or a customer 725 00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:07,835 booking time on a on a quantum computer 726 00:27:07,894 --> 00:27:09,275 and doing something useful. 727 00:27:09,654 --> 00:27:11,734 Or is that something for five years in 728 00:27:11,734 --> 00:27:13,835 the future or ten years in the future? 729 00:27:14,454 --> 00:27:15,355 No. It's absolutely 730 00:27:15,734 --> 00:27:18,075 now. I mean, we've got a reservation 731 00:27:18,375 --> 00:27:20,934 for one of the QPUs tomorrow morning, for 732 00:27:20,934 --> 00:27:22,809 example, where we are gonna run a bunch 733 00:27:22,809 --> 00:27:23,390 of stuff. 734 00:27:24,009 --> 00:27:24,750 But also, 735 00:27:25,529 --> 00:27:27,549 it can be done at any time, 736 00:27:28,329 --> 00:27:29,769 as long as you're willing to get in 737 00:27:29,769 --> 00:27:30,349 the queue. 738 00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:33,210 So, these things are already there. We can 739 00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:35,805 very much run things on quantum computers now. 740 00:27:35,965 --> 00:27:37,585 And in fact, our our forthcoming 741 00:27:38,045 --> 00:27:38,545 projects, 742 00:27:39,085 --> 00:27:41,585 which are based around quantum reservoir computing, 743 00:27:42,205 --> 00:27:45,005 are much more solidly based around running it 744 00:27:45,005 --> 00:27:46,305 on real quantum hardware. 745 00:27:46,684 --> 00:27:48,945 There is a, secret demo 746 00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:51,490 of our upcoming game that that is out 747 00:27:51,490 --> 00:27:52,390 there in the world 748 00:27:52,769 --> 00:27:54,710 if people can go and find it. 749 00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:56,230 But, 750 00:27:56,850 --> 00:27:58,850 once that goes beyond being a demo, it 751 00:27:58,850 --> 00:28:00,150 will be something that, 752 00:28:00,690 --> 00:28:03,170 could for example, we haven't figured out the 753 00:28:03,170 --> 00:28:05,924 details yet, but it's it's it's gonna be 754 00:28:05,924 --> 00:28:08,265 a a game in which levels are generated 755 00:28:08,884 --> 00:28:09,384 procedurally, 756 00:28:09,845 --> 00:28:11,384 and they'll be generated 757 00:28:11,765 --> 00:28:13,684 on a quantum computer. So it might be, 758 00:28:13,684 --> 00:28:16,105 for example, every day it refreshes. 759 00:28:16,644 --> 00:28:18,325 And so every day we're running it on 760 00:28:18,325 --> 00:28:21,250 a quantum computer to get the new level. 761 00:28:21,950 --> 00:28:24,269 Right. Any any hints for our listeners about, 762 00:28:25,549 --> 00:28:27,569 about about where they can find this demo? 763 00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:29,390 Well, it, 764 00:28:29,869 --> 00:28:31,630 if they're a 10 year old, they already 765 00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:32,130 know. 766 00:28:32,509 --> 00:28:34,529 Let's let's get it like that. Okay. 767 00:28:34,875 --> 00:28:37,035 I'm sure we've got a few ten year 768 00:28:37,035 --> 00:28:38,894 old listeners out there. And 769 00:28:39,434 --> 00:28:40,335 if I can 770 00:28:40,634 --> 00:28:42,795 if you can indulge me, James, just by 771 00:28:42,795 --> 00:28:44,174 answering one more question. 772 00:28:44,714 --> 00:28:47,595 It's the International Year of Quantum Science and 773 00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:48,095 Technology. 774 00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:51,130 And so whenever I interview somebody, 775 00:28:52,309 --> 00:28:54,730 associated with quantum science and technology, 776 00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:57,369 I'm asking them one question, 777 00:28:58,069 --> 00:29:01,369 and that question is, what does quantum 778 00:29:01,670 --> 00:29:02,170 physics 779 00:29:02,654 --> 00:29:04,494 mean to you? So do do do you 780 00:29:04,494 --> 00:29:05,715 think you could have a go 781 00:29:06,095 --> 00:29:08,015 at answering that question? And, you know, you 782 00:29:08,015 --> 00:29:10,015 can say anything. It doesn't Yeah. It doesn't 783 00:29:10,015 --> 00:29:12,035 have to be technical. It can be personal 784 00:29:12,095 --> 00:29:13,615 or whimsical. Or 785 00:29:13,934 --> 00:29:14,430 Mhmm. 786 00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:16,930 Well, I've been so deep in it for 787 00:29:16,990 --> 00:29:18,990 a long time now. So it means just, 788 00:29:19,789 --> 00:29:21,869 it's what I do every day. It's it's, 789 00:29:22,590 --> 00:29:24,289 so it's my job, but it's also 790 00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:27,309 my hobby, I suppose. The the reason I 791 00:29:27,309 --> 00:29:28,049 got into 792 00:29:29,795 --> 00:29:32,035 doing these kinds of things, looking at games 793 00:29:32,035 --> 00:29:32,855 and art, 794 00:29:33,474 --> 00:29:36,195 was because I wanted to supplement my my 795 00:29:36,195 --> 00:29:37,815 job of quantum error correction 796 00:29:38,275 --> 00:29:40,134 with things that were gonna be 797 00:29:41,799 --> 00:29:44,440 more accessible to the general public. The the 798 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,680 first thing I ever did in this space 799 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,080 was in 2016 to make a citizen science 800 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:49,580 game. 801 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,080 And I think I've I had an article 802 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,000 in Physics World. It might have been about 803 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,955 that, but it if it wasn't about that, 804 00:29:56,955 --> 00:29:59,455 it was on about one of its successes. 805 00:30:00,234 --> 00:30:01,674 So, yeah, that's what it means to me. 806 00:30:01,674 --> 00:30:02,734 It it's a job, 807 00:30:03,115 --> 00:30:04,015 but it's also 808 00:30:04,474 --> 00:30:05,134 a passion. 809 00:30:06,315 --> 00:30:08,394 Oh, that's great, James. And I will put 810 00:30:08,394 --> 00:30:10,815 a link to that article in the notes 811 00:30:11,049 --> 00:30:12,029 for this podcast. 812 00:30:12,410 --> 00:30:15,049 Thanks so much for joining me today, and, 813 00:30:15,769 --> 00:30:18,029 best wishes to you and all your colleagues 814 00:30:18,089 --> 00:30:19,549 at Moth for the future. 815 00:30:20,009 --> 00:30:21,789 Thanks a lot. It's great to be here. 816 00:30:29,804 --> 00:30:32,384 That was James Wootton of Moth Quantum. 817 00:30:33,085 --> 00:30:35,744 It was one hundred years ago that Werner 818 00:30:35,804 --> 00:30:36,944 Heisenberg formulated 819 00:30:37,325 --> 00:30:38,224 matrix mechanics, 820 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,619 which provided an appealing mathematical 821 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:42,500 framework 822 00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:45,220 for explaining the puzzling observations 823 00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:47,220 of the quantum world. 824 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:48,500 Heisenberg's 825 00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:52,660 inspiration came on the German island of Helgoland, 826 00:30:53,434 --> 00:30:56,494 where he was seeking relief from his severe 827 00:30:56,794 --> 00:30:57,294 allergies. 828 00:30:57,994 --> 00:30:59,535 But what if Heisenberg 829 00:30:59,994 --> 00:31:02,494 had never made the journey to Helgoland 830 00:31:03,035 --> 00:31:04,174 in the first place? 831 00:31:04,794 --> 00:31:07,535 In the latest episode of the Physics World 832 00:31:07,914 --> 00:31:09,054 Stories podcast, 833 00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:11,500 the writer, Kevlin Henney, 834 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,940 discusses his new flash fiction, 835 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,220 Heisenberg, 836 00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:18,539 not in Helgoland. 837 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,179 It was written exclusively 838 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,924 for Physics World as part of the International 839 00:31:25,144 --> 00:31:27,884 Year of Quantum Science and Technology. 840 00:31:28,825 --> 00:31:30,924 The story spans two worlds, 841 00:31:31,384 --> 00:31:32,525 the one we know 842 00:31:32,904 --> 00:31:34,845 and an alternative reality 843 00:31:35,144 --> 00:31:36,285 in which Heisenberg 844 00:31:37,065 --> 00:31:39,250 never visits the island of Helgoland. 845 00:31:40,429 --> 00:31:41,169 That episode 846 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:43,490 is hosted by Andrew Glester, 847 00:31:43,950 --> 00:31:45,630 and you can listen to it on the 848 00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:46,929 Physics World website 849 00:31:47,389 --> 00:31:50,369 or at your favorite podcast provider. 850 00:31:51,149 --> 00:31:52,529 Just look for the headline, 851 00:31:53,265 --> 00:31:55,045 alternate quantum realities. 852 00:31:55,825 --> 00:31:56,964 What if Heisenberg 853 00:31:57,424 --> 00:31:58,404 stayed at home?