Hello and welcome to the Physics world weekly
podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston.
This episode is sponsored by the Shaw prize
Foundation.
In this podcast,
I'm in
conversation with Sri K.
Who is the winner of the 20 24
shaw prize in astronomy.
For his groundbreaking
discoveries about millisecond P sars,
gamma ray bursts,
supernova,
and other variable or transient astronomical
objects.
He's also cited for his leadership of the
Palo transient facility, and its successor the Wiki
transient facility.
Which have revolutionized our understanding of the time
variable
optical sky.
This episode also features an interview with Scott
T,
who is the chair of the selection committee
for the 20 24
shop prize in astronomy.
The shaw prize is an international prize based
in Hong Kong.
It consists of 3 annual awards.
The prize in astronomy,
the prize in life science and medicine,
and the prize in mathematical sciences.
Each prize carries a monetary award of 1200000.0
Us dollars.
The prize was established by run run shaw
a media mo and philanthropist
and was first presented in 2004.
Celebrating its 20 first
anniversary, the prize has honored over 100
individuals from across the world.
This year, the shaw prize is awarded to
4 distinguished scientists
and
mathematicians.
They are Sri K,
for the prize in astronomy.
She lay
and Stuart Or for life science and medicine
and Peter Sa for mathematical sciences.
Sri K was born in India and completed
an Ms degree in physics at the Indian
Institute of technology
in New delhi in 19 78.
He then went to the Us where he
did a Phd in astronomy in 19 83
at the University of California
Berkeley.
In 19 85,
he joined Cal where he is now George
Elle Hale professor of astronomy and planetary science
is. He joins me down the line from
California.
Hi, S. Welcome to the podcast and
congratulations on winning the sharp prize in astronomy.
Happy to join Amy.
So, I wanted to start by asking you
about the focus of your research.
What fa you about variable
and transient
astronomical
objects?
Well, how can you 2 answers to that?
The first 1 is in my view,
I'm
fascinated,
I would say by
almost everything in life.
And
I think honestly,
you know, if you're,
think about anything,
any phenomena.
For more than how say, maybe a minute,
you'd find it fascinating.
For example,
you know, sharks can go at very high
speed in the water.
Where turns out nature has developed a certain
kind of
their skin, which is actually not very smooth
as you might think, but slightly
rough that allows them to have less turbulence
and go faster.
Why, I think that's extremely fascinating.
You may not get a nobel prize for
that. But I think it is very fascinating.
That's, I would say number 1
a part of the question... A first part
of my response.
Second 1 is, I'm a bit more of
a what... I might call in a good
way hook an
scientist.
That is
I don't believe,
personally again that I had to
take an important question and address it.
My view is that at any given time
as a result of our technology and
the capacity we have. Some questions are more
answer than others.
And
I would rather use that as a way
to choose my direction,
than the more classical way which is your
fascinated by particular
question or a issue, and then you said
about your life to answer that.
No value judgment here. I'm just giving you
my views on that,
So,
the time I would say starting with the
turn of the millennium has been ripe for
variable and transient
astronomical
the study of these objects,
mainly because the technology to too, so
has grown and in fact, it makes it
affordable
as well as,
practical
to repeatedly serve with a sky and look
for changes.
If we try to do the sort of
projects I've done in the last 15 years.
Let's say 30 years ago, it would have
been just not possible there. Sensors would cost
more. The computation was simply not there.
So
that's the reason why in the you know,
let's say,
the last 50 years, much of the focus
has been in catalog loving the sky, in
various bands. A radio and optical ultra ultraviolet
x rays and on.
But having done that,
now the sensor and computing technology has decreased
the next obvious step realized is to do
repeated surveys of the sky. Was a long
answer to your short question.
Transient and variable objects. So these these are
objects that blink on and off or and
or or maybe they come on really brightly
for a short amount of time and then
fade away. Is the we have a good
way of describing them. Yeah. They'll basically 3
categories.
The first 1
moving from the solar system outward. The first
1 is actually
moving objects. So if I take a picture,
let's say a sky
now. And even if I take a picture,
maybe even
few minutes later.
Some objects would have moved because there are
loa earth orbit,
a bit away, know, near earth asteroid.
And if I take 1, like, an hour
away, then you the main belt asteroids would
vote. Okay? So
you would think
if you just sat on that pixel, oh,
the object has disappeared No. It's just
reappeared somewhere else. So moving objects in that
sense are a part of this search. Okay?
So where should call this as moving, variable
and tries and objects. So I finished moving.
Variable is,
many stars
Oh, I would say,
depending on how your sensitivity be,
easily,
to 10 percent of the stars,
actually are not steady.
We are lucky. The sun is an extremely
steady star.
Can you imagine if the sun where in
its output by 1 percent. I mean, our
global warming problems would be very minor.
But
many stars vary at the 1 percent level,
at least a few of stars simply vary
for a variety of underlying reasons.
They may be p shading. They may have
rotating with large star,
or there may be in a binary system
showing eclipse or re
modulation.
So that's a fairly
major phenomena variability.
And going out of a galaxy,
quasars,
also vary, you know, super massive black holes
in the centers of galaxies,
a acc matter from the from the, you
know, gas. They also vary.
And transient and some are the 1 that
most people are fascinated and the biggest character
the biggest
phenomena has super,
stellar death.
When
massive stars die, it's a very violent process.
And that sort of thing that happens on
human.
At times because we actually understands. It would
be
seconds, you know, where the explosion happens, of
course it takes a while for the light
to come out.
And,
Know whether you be surprised if I told
you there's a supernova
somewhere in the universe every second.
Of course,
and every server doesn't find, you know, because
some of them will be very faint. There'll
be somewhere else in the sky.
But this project that we'll talk a little
later. I suppose the Wiki tri facility. We
find, oh, maybe about 20000
super Arena a year
or candidates of which we pursue 2000. We'll
come back to that later.
And so, Sherry, why why do we need
to understand
these phenomena, you know, by understanding
variable and transient objects. What do we learn
about some
about astronomy and about astro physics?
Okay. Well, I will give my answer and
2 parts.
First is why do we do astronomy at
all? I would say,
is sometimes, you know, it's frequently,
I asked that because it all seems so
far out.
And
I would claim
that,
the most,
the supreme goal of the human
civilization should be understand the universe into which
we are born.
I would say this is far more important
than anything else because
we can actually do that.
I still have very fascinated that sitting around
on earth,
already, you know, with only a few people
left earth and come back. Already, we can
Actually start to understanding the universe. So when
I said the universe I'm talking was an
astronomy of the, you stuff outside of, but
I'm also talking about geology,
biology
and all this stuff. I I think this
is the
supreme achievement of man mankind in my view.
It's not the literature. It's not the other
stuff because those are things we do for
ourselves. This is absolute when you understand the
universe.
You can explain to another alien the... It
may be in different words, but it is
understanding is universal.
Okay.
That's a philosophical answer.
The more,
narrower answer is
the
let's start with
something as simple as
asteroids. Okay? You know, a hundred years ago,
there was a massive blast.
In Siberia,
called the Tu sky event.
Well, if I think will that happened today
and not in Siberia, but
you know, let's say in California,
the damage would be in men's. I mean,
and
if the
asteroid was a little larger. It could be
in more. There been ideas, maybe that Dino
died that way and so on. But no
question. It would be a life changing
situation. So
in some practical terms, it is important to
accept and understand that, you know,
our life yet could be impacted by these
objects. So
that's extremely practical. And then only by catalog
and then maybe thinking of missions to
slightly nudge away. Those hazardous
objects. Okay.
At the other end, Super,
you know, if we
in, most of our bodies is water. Okay.
Let's get rid of that. And then we
have things like calcium, in our teeth and
bones and
iron in a blood.
Where do you think this came from? This
did not come from the universe directly? When
the universe was born,
there's hydrogen and helium,
a little bit of lithium maybe, and that's
about it.
Okay?
It's the stars which turned out to be
factories
synthesized new elements through fusion reaction.
So low mass style, like the sun, they
by the time they die there to produced,
you know, carbon.
That sort of that. So they go through
hydrogen to Helium then Helium to carb.
But stars more massive than that they can
produce all the way to ions through fusion,
and then some very exotic
it's lo produced stuff beyond iron all the
way out to gold and thinks that. Some
of us like.
So
I would say, understanding the can... The...
Basically, how did the universe, which was a
very simple physical object? You know, how did
chemistry get introduced namely the periodic table? That's
very much the domain of supernova
physics?
So that's sort of a grand quest of
which we have astronomers have made amazing progress
in the last,
Oh, I would say about 70 years, we
actually sort of
understand the chemical buildup of the universe.
And, S, I wanted to ask you about
your involvement with, you know, some of the
ob trees and facilities that,
that have made that possible made our understanding
of of transient possible.
You led the Palo
transient
factory
and its successor,
the wiki transient
facility. What were the goals of these facilities?
And and what have they achieved?
Yeah. So
I took you a little bit of background
on how these projects came about.
I
I'm very curious... As I told you, I'm
very curious. I find almost anything very curious.
The only question is, how do you spend
time then?
Well, you to have some talent, and you
had to have something in that field that
gives Ad. Gives you an to work in
that field.
So
over my career about Oh, I know. Every
5 to 10 years, I switched fields because
the other side of being curious is after
I understand something
to a reasonable level Actually, I lose interest
in that because I'm and then I wanna
to go to the next stuff that seems
interesting.
So,
about 96 and my friend Dale Fail and
I started a program
to
understand a gamma ray bus,
we thought there's an opportunity.
So I also I had to tell you
that there's a... I sort of look at
many of what I do in a slightly
more business like fashion
because what I do with to me is
not as important, but you know, whether can
I do it because everything's interesting? The only
question are, which wants to choose and a
part of choosing,
how to make a choice of a project
is,
my sense with a
rapid progress can be made.
Sort of a person, I guess he could
say,
lives on Ad Hill, and I wanna produce
something very fast.
Make progress in in a short time.
Anyway, we...
Our hunch on, you know, the... That G
b's was going to be a big game
that worked very well we.
Made huge progress on that in and by
you know, lots of papers in nature and
the usual sort of stuff, that scientists,
haven't.
But by 2004,
Nasa launched, on 2004 coming back from a
Nasa,
a launch of what has got the swift
gamma ray observatory,
which was
which is gonna convert a gamma burst studies
into AAA little industry.
That was it was going to find about
a hundred gamma burst in the year.
And
until then through,
the previous mission or it does only 1
a month. So this is a huge jump.
And I said, well, this is the time
to leave the field because now very popular
and it's not what I call as low
hanging fruits.
The fruits are getting a little higher on
the tree.
And I start thinking about
what is an interesting
project to do?
And I a more engineering bent of mind
on on on these things. So
And,
1 of things was fascinated was, the study
of Su,
which
in those days, was what I call as
a small scale operation. You know, there's, like,
a graduate student and a professor,
the best anyone could do was take a
small telescope,
observe
nearby galaxies.
And during the day, analyze,
the images, See something new has come up
against nearby galaxy,
And then a few days later, I, know,
another student or,
would take a spectrum and say, oh, this
is a a this kind of super way
to to a
find super is easy, in the sense, you
see something pop up.
But to say what kind it is? Oh,
and there's a nearly dozen sub classes,
you need a spectrum, which is a more
is like a fingerprint of the chemicals it
has produced,
oh, or the elements to be more accurate.
And I was thinking well,
and the record then was about, oh, let's
say, yeah, it was done in, from a
colleague of mine in Berkeley, Alex Silver bank
it was about hundred a year. Okay? They're
finding a hundred supernova year through a dedicated
program,
and the other more, you know, sort of
focus pro... Other progress, maybe I let's another
hundred also
worldwide.
I was thinking well,
I thought the technology
to do this can be highly automated,
as well as the detectors were getting
cheaper,
you know, in electronics, there's a thing, lock
or moore's law, which is
depending exactly what component it is,
the the the cost per
you know, item, or transistor or sensors of
falls
every 18 months to 2 years.
And
I could foresee that in another few years,
law
sensors, meaning images,
would become affordable to make large field of
view,
images. Okay.
If you call... You can call it as
a grass, which is the product of the
size of the telescope. So the bigger telescope
more collect,
times how much of the sky you can
use, you can survey at a given time.
And
the larger the grass the more
unit.
And
so
the 2 basic
innovations there where,
you know,
build
images with large
very large field of you as as
only limited by how much money you want
to spend on sensors,
and then
say, you know,
automate a lot of these things. That that
was my goal was
we don't need grad students and so on
that that worked well for a while. But
right data reduction pipelines
that
they... You
obtain, you a pipeline,
and, you know, subtract the images,
oh, some intelligence is put in the software
that says, okay. This looks pretty good.
And that is part 1 of this project.
And part 2 was as I told you
had to get spec from.
Well, there are many things that change in
the sky, for example, variable stars. Now those
you can more or less element eliminate by
saying, it only varies by a percent or
2 or a tenth of a percent. Okay?
So
but even within Supernova,
there could be,
false,
nonetheless, there's such a large background of wearing
phenomena that
if you... If we are simply not in
a position to go and
get a detailed spectrum of everything that burp
and
explodes in the sky because our ability to
find them at high confidence level isn't
wasn't that high at that point. So part
2 was to actually
improve
understanding of that supernova
and for that,
the innovation I had in mind was to
use another telescope scope, a bigger telescope scope
actually,
to get roughly what are called colors, which
is is it
is it blue? Is it yellow? Is it
red? Because that tells you what kind of
supernova it is as well as it's a
way to also eliminate some of the false
positives.
So they stand the idea of using 2
telescopes curves simultaneously,
sounds you know, it's not a the deepest
idea, but that was, I would say, a
bit major innovation. The idea of using
automated pipelines was around, but insisting that they
work every night, it with a very high
fault tolerance runs. Yeah. And that's what led
to the power
factory. Came in with a 48 inch
Palo
Schmidt telescope scope
called the
ocean telescope
with a Schmidt camera,
and
the palo 60 inch
with the ability to do colors.
And,
finally,
with a software pipeline
that actually,
did not require a human in the loop.
K? So there's pipelines ran
while we are asleep.
And so we speed it up also the
the the whole process.
Finally, in at the end of Palo the
the Pt t project,
we able to go from
identifying supermarket candidates.
Having some confidence is a good candidate through
this color observations and getting the spectrum the
same night.
The spectrum usually
requires a much larger telescope scope, which we
didn't have you know, we only had limited
access. We had good access but limited.
That's what led to Pt t, and
I was quite surprised that
these
engineering goals could be met.
And I was talking with my nephew, Rohan,
Rohan And He said, well, you should you
should call this the automated discovery of the
universe. And I like that. So, that that
was the founder foundation.
I give a talk about Pt t at
Mit and as in the audience and.
Anyway, that led to Z t where
at this point,
this was everything on steroids,
including spectroscopy, which was done robotic.
And so you you mentioned a figure of
a, was it a hundred objects a year?
Are you how how how many objects a
year are you detecting now? Are you detecting
a similar number, but just doing a much
better
job at analog loss.
With Z etf, we probably have, I would
say,
how to be somewhere between 20000 to 30000
candidates that is in our data,
you'll find something
plausible next to a, you know, galactic object
goes up, then comes down,
of which
we only study 10 percent of them, so
we... Were able to get the spec
classification. So we know it's a supernova and
we know what kind it is to a
certain level.
So that's about 2000 a year. So we've
gone from a hundred to 2000
classified.
But probably,
oh, certainly a 20000, maybe even 30000, not
classified, but we know they're super because they're
light curves that is how they behave, how
they come up,
have a plateau or not a plateau and
then they decline. We know it's a super
with a high degree of confidence or probability
that they are.
And you you mentioned that you've worked on
on gamma ray bursts. You've worked on supernova.
Do do you have a a favorite
object
that you've looked at during your career or
is it just the 1 that you happen
to be working on today that's your favorite?
Yeah. Well,
as Joe come to my kids says,
I always... You know, my first 2... First
bets were 2 rabbits and
So...
And then I always had a, you know,
pits or after they died,
and then
I didn't have when I was a,
grad student. But when
you know, we had kids. They wanted to
have pets. So I said, oh, yeah. They
wanted a dog. I said, let's go and
went to the pet
shop and immediately got a rabbit.
And then since that we've been doing of
rescue,
people abandoned private after the Easter.
So I've had I know in the last
not anymore right now.
About 7... 0, it's 8 now, you know,
that we rescued then. They
they stay at some point pass away.
It's how hard to say what's my favorite
driver because I like them all.
Food
So
I would say
perhaps, for me, the 1
that is in some sense of favorite
was
the very first discovery I made as a
graduate student,
working with the Dawn Ba,
was that I received,
radio observatory,
and I got the first millisecond pulse. Oh,
this is more than about 40 years ago.
That is a a favorite because,
a was my first,
and b,
it was sort of you know, I was
there all alone set up the whole process
and
analyze and discovered, and it was very thrilling.
And
after that, you know, working with students
we found the first brown wolf. That was
kind of fun.
So, you know, when you find a new
class of object,
there's a certain thrill knowing that you maybe
and your students are only people in the
world aware what this is,
in the grand scheme of things, perhaps, it
means nothing. But in the very small scheme
of things size of that day or that
month. It means a lot.
Yeah. So I've sort of the the
the
focus on transient and Sand explosive events and
is to me, this has been in the
last roughly
20 years with Gamma ray and Pt t
and Z t of the 2 projects we
us.
But before that I've been through, you know,
other fears,
big instruments,
you know, observing,
neutron stars, black holes, that sort of stuff.
Tri, I'd like to ask you to look
forward
you know, to the future.
Bigger and better telescopes are being built?
What what do you look forward to? Are
there any
ob or instruments out there that are about
to come online that you're really interested in
seeing the data from?
Well, I'll...
Oh,
I'll again, give the answer in 2 parts.
So the the first 1
is this is a fantastic time to do
astronomy. I mean,
the instruments we're building
are
just have enormous capacity of information delivery.
Just, you know, I know, like, a week
ago,
the European space agency, released pictures
of the sky taken with the up euclid.
Okay? I know they saw that. They're like
gorgeous
pictures, and you first look at it, and
they actually give you the the with the
real data as other Jpeg of its files.
And I was looking, you know, you can
keep zooming the like about every time you
zoom, it's a factor of 2 it it
mag signifies.
I don't no I think I went about
maybe
10 times before I could see the pixels.
It was just so rich.
So a single image you know, is, like,
few square degrees or that they're giving maybe
a square degrees was just amazing.
That's number 1. So the data flow, but
the instruments is is
exponentially growing.
And
so...
And the, you know us, you know, has
been around for about nearly 14000000000 years.
There 10 to the 11 stars in each
galaxy like our own, and they 10 to
the 11 galaxy like a milky way.
So the us has had, first of all,
many opportunity do some very strange things and
a very long time to cook up those
things.
So there's no shortage
of
phenomena to explore.
That's first part. The second 1 is
many times people think and try to just
finish
writing what I call as a creed,
that, you know, bigger telescopes is better, of
course, that is true. You know, bigger telescopes
scope means you can study more faint. Thanks
or you can study the bright things with
better precision.
However,
I just finished this article and the title
is something that there is more room sideways.
By that, I mean, the l... The the
the
you know, the usual idea for subject is
like a pair... There's an Apex, a Pyramid.
You know, we build the base and we
keep going up to the very top. Well,
that's at the top. But when I say
more room sideways is we can employ a
variety of telescopes
to study the universe. They don't... Don't... Don't
have to be big at all actually.
So the
Z t and it... You know, Z was
based on a 48 inch telescope.
Which was commissioned in 19 49,
and a 16 telescope commissioned in 19 72
and for spectroscopy used the 200 inch
commissioned in 19 50,
also so. Okay?
So here we are that with these old
telescopes scope, but with new instruments, we can
study the Scott ferocious.
Okay?
The number papers, Z t published,
I was surprised. I think the team itself
was publishing 1 every 10 days. And because
we put the data out, the rest of
the word was publishing for every, we published
they're publishing 4 others using the data made
available to them. So
so there's many
different ways.
You can study the universe
It doesn't have to with the larger sales.
And there's no shortage of phenomena.
I would say absolutely no shortage.
You know, we could
be,
tell me
anything that fast it to you a you
know, you know, or what... Ask me a
question and then about...
Oh, maybe about 30 seconds I can come
with a project for that.
So I know it doesn't... You know I'm
not... I'm not trying to be specific for
a simple reason. I really want,
young people to understand that there is no
set way of approaching science.
This idea, you know, I would say somewhat
popular
by high energy,
physics switch has been, you know, physics in
general has been a race, perhaps the most
successful part of our science,
sciences,
you know, you had to build bigger accelerators
to find things. Yes. That is... But that's
just 1 particular approach,
in contrast, astronomy
and biology geology.
We can do many things
across the board, and you don't know until
you're done whether which is a more important
thing.
And and finally, Sri, what? I mean, it
sounds to me like,
you think this is a golden age.
Of astronomy. And I'm guessing that you would
encourage young people to to become interested in
it, and, you know, maybe do a Phd
or and and become a an astronomer. What
advice would you give to early career people
or students who are interested in following in
your footsteps.
Yeah. I would say, definitely, there's a golden
age for astronomy perhaps biology.
Any these... The fields which require data, they're
exploding because
the sensors have increased. Believe the computer increased
and those fields are producing far more data.
I our data
exponentially larger than the
number of users.
And that's always means to me
an opportunity for a young person to get
in with fresh perspective.
You know, someone like me has been around
doing research for more than 40 years. I'll
be very good. I'll be very cunning in
doing things that I can. But I lag
the fresh perspective. So this is a very
good time to be in this data which
fields.
And what I... The main advice I'll give
to a young person is,
figure out who you are, not what do
you want to be. Okay? Yeah. It's okay
to say, oh, I want to be an
eye einstein, which is, you know, largely
very cerebral here did go work. Okay? And
it's a nice thing. Know, I einstein. So
famous.
He sat in the patent office and figured
out this and that and so. I mean,
it's like amazing. Okay. I don't even understand
how that even could happen.
Okay. Much easier to understand someone like myself.
Yeah. You know, you collect data, You see
patterns. You write papers. It seems more
clear.
But don't confuse what he aspire to be
to what you can do. And it's good
to say, yeah, I can do a lot,
but I think we all have
some talent in
directions that we need to know what it
is. And I know that I don't have
talent in some other directions or let me
say it comes more slowly.
So for example, you ought been astronomer. There
are roughly 3 categories.
Either you can be a adhere that is
you sort of
do put a lot of time, understand the
physics,
especially mathematics you should have really good skills
and mathematics though
equations and so on. And then you look
at the observations and try to make sense
of it by
applying physics to it. Okay. That's 1 kind.
At the other end is you build Gizmos
like I do, you say, okay.
You look at the world So, what is
it I can do with the technology today.
And
that gizmo more... In order to know what
kind of build how to understand the the
large landscape and say, okay. I won't do
this. And you can connect very poor choices.
If we don't understand the landscape.
Okay?
So it's not just like, big Gizmos and
things will happen. You to build sensible Gizmos
and then things will happen.
Okay? And then another person could be what
you call roughly a model?
Okay, sort of in between a theorist and
observer.
This could be people who do numerical, it
they they take the equations in theory
and apply that in a computer, and that's
become a very big field it's called numerical
astro physics.
I... You need the rough 3 categories,
and
The first thing a student has to do
be a young person has to do is
who you are?
Are you a, b or c,
not who you want to be? Okay. Have
so you to try those things and see...
And feel naturally where you think your inclination
is and where you're growing fast.
The second thing is you confidence, I would
say,
you to confidence,
in the following sense,
it's easy.
Few people are just over confident, which is
not useful because,
it you, you know, but actually it's easiest
to find out if you're very all confident,
you set forth on of Voyage and it
the incident is disaster,
Next time we set forth ends in a
disaster. So after a while you'll figure out.
So actually, being over confident is something that,
you know, reality will eventually inform you.
Many people are actually have the opposite problem.
They is shy about themselves, and they don't
want to push and understand their limits.
And for that, you got to undergo failure
and resilience. Okay.
I don't know how to teach this, because
I now I'd wise, oh, is it 31
grad students.
Mentored maybe 52 post stocks.
It... This has been the hard 1 to
actually try to to teach.
But I think I've been moderately successful,
at least in few cases.
And in most cases certainly by the end
of their, you know, stay,
they do leave better off than they started.
Yeah. So
the the 1 thing I would add advocate...
1 trick advocate to a young person is,
step outside your body and look at yourself
and what happened during the day.
When I was young, I do that all
the time. End of the day hey, I
would sort of... It's a pretend exercise. You're
you're sitting there, You said, okay. I'm gonna
step outside my body. And once you step
outside, you look at this person, I you
surgical, not with any emotions.
What are the things that
this person did write optimal
strategic today. And most importantly, what are the
things in red respect would have been done
better and so on.
And this sort of a surgical analysis
will
help you improve,
in a search very business like way. So,
you to learn how to suspend ego
on analyzing yourself. But at the same time
of confidence requires having confidence in yourself, which
is sort of, like, having some stake in
yourself. So life is always, you know, understanding
the 2 extremities and trying to learn to
operate that. So to summarize, I tell a
young person,
stone is a fantastic field. You want to
do research,
come. This is things are really happening in
a very big way.
And bring your fresh perspective,
bring energy, you got to work hard, no
excuse on that. If you don't work hard,
you know, there are other people who want
to work hard, and, you know, who will
get the job and so on.
And develop confidence yourself,
analyze yourself,
and improve. Life is a process of continual
improvement, continual education,
and continual curiosity.
Well, that's great, Sure. That's that's fantastic advice.
And thanks again. Thanks so much for coming
on the podcast.
And
congratulations
for winning the sharp price.
Oh, thanks, Har.
Scott T is professor Em am at the
Institute for advanced study in Princeton, New Jersey.
He's made important
contributions to our understanding of the formation and
evolution of a wide range of astronomical
systems.
Including planets,
black holes, and galaxies.
He served as chair of the selection committee,
for the 20 24
shaw prize in astronomy,
and he joins me down the line from
the Us to talk about this year's Lau.
So, Scott, can you highlight some of Ko
achievements
that led the selection committee to award him
the prize.
C achievements have been focused on the area
of time domain astronomy that is on
on trying to,
identify
astronomical
events or objects that only last for a
short time. This is a very challenging area
of astronomy because you have to sift through
huge amounts of,
huge amounts of data
to try to isolate,
a, single event that may only last
for a fraction of a second.
Within that area,
his,
the crown achievement of his career,
has been the development of 2 surveys,
the, Palo transient
factory in the Wiki transient facility,
that has been purpose built to find,
short duration transient events
in that,
area,
they've been extraordinarily
successful.
So, for example, 1 of the events that
they felt look for is supernova in distant
galaxies,
which last
for,
periods of,
weeks to months.
They've been able to find many of these
within hours
of the time the explosion first occurs.
And have contributed a significant fraction
of all of the, Supernova that have been
discovered recently.
And and, Scott, 1 thing that struck me.
I mean, I'm not an astronomer, but when
I looked at the the sort of broad
range of object types that that he's studied
and also, you know, some of the amazing
instruments
that he's helped develop.
You know, to me, that that seemed like
a very broad and interesting career so far.
I mean, is is that a reasonable,
way to describe what what he's done, you
know, sort of the length and breadth of
his research?
Very very much so,
K Ka
has been interested in,
almost all areas of astronomy.
1 of the,
really remarkable features of the facilities that he's
built
has been there
discoveries over a wide range of
astronomy, everything from,
of,
binary stars with orbital periods as short a
few hours
to,
exploding store stars at distant galaxies,
to
solar system objects,
Cl county has been interested in in almost
all areas of astronomy.
And although the award was focused
on his work and time domain astronomy. He's
also made
other major
contributions, for example,
he had his collaborators
discovered the first really
persuasive
and,
unique brown dwarf, stars intermediate between,
stars and planets.
And although,
and and so the the award partly represented,
his overall
contribution to astronomy, although those have been focused
on time domain astronomy.
And in terms of his legacy, I mean,
I know it may maybe it's a too
early to talk about that.
But because my understanding is that he's he's
still actively
working.
But what... I mean, what influence so far
has he had on modern astronomy? He... You
know, would he be the sort of astronomer
that that many astronomers were would have heard
of, you know, that young astronomers would aspire
to be like.
Well, I can't I can't speak for the
young astronomers, of course, but
and it it probably is early to speak
about his legacy.
His legacy is particularly complicated
because
in the next year or 2 the ruben
telescope will,
come online.
Its focus is on time domain astronomy.
And
because it's a much bigger, much more expensive,
telescope,
than,
than Ko telescopes,
it has the potential to discover much more.
But I think,
C work
has to a large extent paved the way
for the the Ruben telescope.
And many of the problems that he's had
to solve
have been
our our problems that the ruben telescope is
is going to have to solve as well.
I think 1 of the really
important features of his legacy
has been the
the democrat
of science,
Cl,
telescopes,
don't save the data. It's not analyzed first
by his group.
It goes through an automated pipeline and then
it's made available
over an alert system to astronomers around the
world.
And so,
Ko has been 1 of the leaders
in democrat
the study of time domain astronomy.
And, making,
really,
useful and unique alerts available to astronomers
in every country.
I see. And is that something Scott that
that you and and the selection committee members
considered when you made your choice? Or is
that just an added
bonus of of Cole Career that that you
that you can talk about his contribution there.
The focus of the shaw price is on,
rewarding
unique
contributions to astronomical knowledge and to research. So
I would characterize this as a bonus,
Cl,
Ko Carney approach to distributing his data has
made it,
has has been a real asset for astronomers
who may not have access
to the biggest telescopes,
and
we think that's AAA
great addition.
We think the, you know, the the shop
price is intended
to be,
rewarding people who have an international impact. And
this is 1 unique way in which Ko
really has had
an impact around the world.
Well, that's great, Scott. Thanks so much for
coming on the podcast and talking to me
about the winner of this year's shop prize
and astronomy.
My pleasure.
I'm afraid that's all the time we have
for this week's podcast.
Thanks to Sri Cool Carney, and Scott T
for joining me today. And a special thanks
to our producer Fred Isles.
This episode is sponsored by the Shaw prize
foundation. The Shaw prize honors
individuals regardless of race,
nationality,
gender, and religious belief. Who are currently active
in their respective fields and who have recently
achieved
distinguished and significant
advances.
Who have made
outstanding
contributions in academic and scientific
research or
applications or who in other domains have achieved
excellence.
The shop rise is dedicated to furthering
societal progress
enhancing quality of life had enriching humanity's
spiritual
civilization.
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next week on the fourth of July.
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