Physics world. Hello and welcome to the Physics Worlds Stories podcast.
I'm Andrew G. Lester, and if you're a regular listener to this podcast,
you'll know that each month I'm tasked with finding a story from the world
of physics.
It had been the intention for this episode to be about when research goes wrong,
but in the process of researching that particular episode,
I discovered the story of Charity Woodrum,
the subject of a new film space, hope and charity,
directed by Sandy Cummings. We'll hear from Sandy later in the episode,
but the film tells the remarkable story of charity Woodrum following a
heartbreaking family tragedy.
My name is Charity Woodrum, and I'm a,
a grad student at the University of Arizona,
getting my PhD in astronomy and astrophysics.
My specific field is called Galaxy Evolution. You know, in general,
we're looking to explain how galaxies form and evolve
over cosmic time. Um, more specifically,
my research focuses on what's called the quenching of galaxies, um,
because if you look at the population of galaxies, there's two main types.
There's star forming galaxies, and there's quiescent galaxies.
And in the early universe, most of the galaxies are all forming lots of stars.
But as time passes,
we start to see these quiescent galaxies appearing that have stopped forming
stars.
And so my thesis is trying to explain the physical processes that are
causing these galaxies to stop forming stars, and we call this quenching. Wow.
That's quite a thing. Yeah. Wow. So, uh,
can you tell me what drew you to that in the first place?
Well, um, I took a non-traditional track, I guess. Um,
the first time I went to school, actually, I became a registered nurse,
and then I worked as a registered nurse for a few years,
but I wasn't really able to separate it from my personal life.
It, I would go home, you know, very sad, you know,
because at least once a week you would see something extremely tragic,
and then daily there were sad things that would happen.
And so I just wasn't able, you know, to handle it emotionally.
And in high school, I was good at math. And so, um,
I started reading books to get my mind off of, you know, the nursing job,
and came across popular science books by Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking.
And, you know, I just felt this draw that I, I just felt like I had to do it.
Um, and around the same time I was, you know, pregnant with my son,
and I wanted him to follow his biggest dreams,
and so I decided I had to lead by example.
And so actually when I was nine months pregnant,
I went into the academic counselor and asked what it would take for me to get my
bachelor's in physics. So that's when it all started.
Just step back a slightly Carl Sagan.
Well, you know, of course I, uh, would watch his show and everything, and just,
um, I liked the perspective that astronomy offered,
and I think he was really good at, um,
getting that across because it allowed me to step outside of, you know,
the hu the human condition,
which w is what I was faced facing every day as a nurse. But with astronomy,
you get to just, you know, step outside of that and try to,
and think about things on much larger scales from. And I,
I just wanted that perspective, I guess, to just, instead of going home,
thinking about the human suffering I had seen, I'd rather, you know,
go home and be in awe of the universe, I guess. Mm-hmm.
I, I can see on the shelf behind you is Cosmos, the, uh, the book of the series,
the original one there. Is that the specifically the one you read that,
that you were talking about?
Yeah, yeah. As well as a brief history of time by Stephen Hawking. Yeah.
Okay. So your life is the story,
or your life so far, at least, is the story of a film.
The universe is just so huge.
It feels like there's gotta be a reason we're here. When I was a kid,
our home life was tumultuous.
I would often go out and look up and it would calm me.
I remember asking one of my teachers lift off how I could work for NASA someday,
and I remember him chuckling. I had always wanted to work for nasa,
but at some point it felt like it was too far of a goal
for me.
She calls me out of the blue from Texas. I'm like,
charity, why are you there? And she's like, well, I, I fell in love.
He was basically the most caring person I had ever met in my life.
Well, I'll start before I guess the documentary was even a thing. So when I was,
um, an undergrad at the University of Oregon and physics, um,
my sophomore year my father died, and then my junior year, um,
I, we took a family vacation and, uh,
at the Oregon coast and there was an accident,
and I lost both my husband and my son on the same day.
I remember waking up in an ambulance and not knowing how I got there,
and I felt like a pounding on my head.
And then I opened my eyes and realized that I was like hitting myself in the
head. I just didn't want to believe that they were gone. At first,
I was hospitalized for about a week. It, you know, it was too much to handle,
and I would just scream. So they hospitalized me and, um,
sedated me for about a week. And then, you know, the weeks following that,
I, you know, spent a lot of time on the couch, didn't eat much, um,
didn't sleep much. Uh, but then, you know, after the funeral, which,
um, by the way, the University of Oregon, uh, paid for the entire funeral. The,
all of the professors that I had worked with, you know,
in the computer science department,
the physics department departments all over the University of Oregon, you know,
banded together and donated to, um, you know, pay for the funeral.
And so after the funeral, I, I don't, I don't know,
I guess I could just feel myself fading on that couch. I, you know,
I knew I wasn't gonna survive if I just kept s you know,
staying there on that couch. And so my undergrad research advisor,
he had sent me an email and told me, you know, anything I needed,
he was there and to just contact him. And so I set up a meeting with him and,
um, he asked me what I needed, and I said, you know,
that I felt like I needed to go back to school and finish my degree in physics.
Both my husband and son were very proud of me for doing that,
and I felt like I needed a distraction. And so at first, um,
so he, he, you know, was able to work that out for me. Obviously,
I had missed a lot of class,
and so my electromagnetism professor said that I could
finish the class over the summer by independent study,
and then that allowed me so that I didn't have to postpone graduation by
an entire year. And so she was incredibly supportive. And, you know,
my undergrad research advisor realized that everything in my life was
completely turned upside down and that I needed some sort of stability.
And so he said the research group could do that for me, and they would be solid,
you know, and, um, that's exactly what I needed. I,
I really needed that distraction. Um, I had been working on a paper and, um,
so I went back to start finishing this paper. Um,
at first it was really hard, you know, I, I honestly, I couldn't even read.
I would stare at stare at the paper, you know, and or my screen,
and I couldn't even read at first.
But just going in every day and trying to read,
eventually I got back into the swing of things. And, um, that was a,
yeah, like I said, I just needed that. I needed that distraction. Um,
and I was able to graduate on time.
The next year I got my bachelor's in physics at the University of Oregon and
decided to apply to graduate school. And, um,
got accepted into, you know, a couple different schools.
And I chose the University of Arizona.
I think the main reason I chose here was because during the perspective visit,
I noticed that the grad students were happy and they were really supportive of
each other, and it was a really collaborative environment.
And I knew I didn't want to be in a competitive environment.
And so I eventually chose to come to the University of Arizona. Um,
but actually before I even got accepted into graduate school,
there was this group of women in Oregon and they said, you know,
they had heard about my story and they wanted to have a meeting with me to see,
you know, if there was any way they could help me. And so I went, you know,
this was pretty early after the tragedy happened. Um, so, you know,
it was kind of a, a raw time for me. But, you know,
I was sitting in this house with this group of women and they were trying to
figure out ways they could help me. And I,
I had told them I was applying to grad school and all of this, and I think,
you know, they didn't really know what to do to help me really. Um,
there had already been a GoFundMe that was set up by actually a complete
stranger who had seen my story. She wanted to help me, um, finish my program,
and so she set up a GoFundMe and that was able to pay for the rest of my
bachelor's degree. Um, but this group of women, one of them was a filmmaker,
and I did not know that at the time. Um, and I,
after I, and we have a mutual friend and, you know,
she would ask for updates from my mu our mutual friend,
and the mutual friend told her that I had gotten into grad school and that I was
continuing this, um, career that I had started.
And so she flew to Tucson one day and with a life story rights
agreement and asked me if I'd be willing, uh, to make a documentary with her.
She's an independent filmer, um, used to work at N NBC News for, you know,
most of her career, and Dateline and has, you know, she's ex you know,
very good at her job. But, um, my question for her was,
what was her goal for the documentary? And she told me that,
well,
so over the years there's been people who have seen what I've gone through,
and they've messaged me and told me that it watching me go through what I've
been through and still, um, you know, doing what,
still following my dreams, inspired them to, um,
get through their own hard times. And when I asked the,
so when I asked the director what her goals were for the film,
she said basically the same thing. And so I felt like it was a good fit.
So that's what made me decide to sign, sign that life story rights agreement.
And, you know, this was four years ago. She's been following me for four years,
and the film just now got finished very recently.
Okay. Have, have you.
Seen it? I have seen it, yeah. We've had a couple of,
we've had a couple of private screenings, so I've seen it. Yeah.
You happy with it?
Yeah, I'm definitely happy with it.
She's a very loving person and I think she did a, a great job.
She did it with love. And um, honestly, I'm not the type of person that,
um, really is comfortable in front of a camera. And so it was scary at first,
but um, actually Covid happened and so that kind of delayed things.
But during that time,
I became really close friends with her and also the person, the Filmographer,
the director of photography, um, you know,
we would go to dinner every night after filming.
And so I really got to know them both very well.
And they're both just incredibly kind,
empathetic people and they've honestly become my best friends.
And so I think the reason I was able to be so vulnerable in the film
was because I trusted them and because they were, you know, friends of mine,
you know, because if I was in cry, if I was crying in front of the cameras,
they were crying behind the cameras with me. They,
so I really trusted both of them, them to, you know,
be vulnerable in front of them.
Okay. And you say you wanted to do it because she shared the same
motivations as you for sharing your story? Uh, it, that's what that's happened,
has it?
Yeah. Yeah, because like I said,
we've had a couple of private screenings and there's a huge shift,
you know, because I interact with people before the screening and then after the
screening. And oftentimes these are strangers to me and there's a huge shift.
Um, people approach me afterwards and it,
I think they feel like they know me and that they can open up to me. And so,
you know, I've had some of the most genuine conversations I've ever had with,
with people after a screening and they open up to me about their own hard things
that they've been through. And they've told me,
they have told me that it helped them, you know, so that's been gr you know,
great to see already that, you know, from the few private screenings,
people do feel like they connect with me, so.
Okay, that's good. And when can the rest of us see it?
So Sandy's applying to, um, film festivals right now, um,
all over the United States. I think the world,
she's applying to some international ones as well.
We did get accepted into our first film festival,
which is the Phoenix Film Festival. And um, yeah,
we'll be applying to more. So I'm not sure, uh, you know,
which other ones we'll get into, but for now it's, you know,
the Phoenix Film Festival at the end of March and beginning of April.
You've mentioned that the research group were really supportive to
begin with. Is that an ongoing thing? Do you still feel supported?
Yeah, so my undergrad research group, um, as I said,
was incredibly supportive. Um, especially my undergrad research advisor.
That's another reason I want people to watch the film is to see what he did for
me. Um, he shows what good mentorship can do.
I had a meeting with Dr.
Fisher and it must have been a shock for him to see me like that.
I said, look,
our group can be the one spot that didn't change,
that that was the one part of her life that, you know,
didn't get thrown, you know, in, into chaos. Wow.
That was tough at first cuz she was numb. It was clear.
You honestly, coming to grad school, moving away from my support group,
uh, my support system in Oregon was very scary. Um,
I didn't know what the people were gonna be like here.
And actually during my first year in graduate school,
I got incredibly close with my cohort, um, to the point where, you know,
we were cooking dinner together every night and they've been incredibly
supportive as well. And you know,
I couldn't have made it this far without all of the people that have stepped in
and been my community that have gotten me through all of this. And, you know,
my current,
my PhD advisor has been incredibly supportive as well cuz you know, um,
for example, I still have hard days on the anniversary of the tragedy,
for example, or on my son's birthday. Um,
I'm not able to work on those days and I didn't know how to tell my PhD advisor
this. I was, you know, very afraid to at first.
And so I actually did it by email because it's hard to tell people in person.
And so I sent her an email and told her, you know,
I'm taking next week off because of this thing that happened.
It's the anniversary of losing my husband and son. And she said she,
she already knew about what happened to me, um, but that she didn't,
she was waiting for me to tell her and she said, you know,
take all of the time you need.
And she's continued to do that for the past five years. Every time I say,
you know, today's my son's birthday, I can't work today or, you know,
she'll give me as much time as I need.
So she's been incredibly supportive as well.
I guess they treat me like a full human, you know, which sounds obvious to do,
but, um, I don't think that's, you know,
incredibly common in academia honestly.
And so they realize that I have complications and I
outside of work and they just honor those. Um, and so I just,
I know that's not been everyone's experience, but I would say that, you know,
they've done an incredible job of being supportive.
So empathy and understanding really.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
And how was it making the.
Film? Honestly, making the documentary was a cathartic process, I would say.
Um, I didn't realize how hard it would be. I think, you know, doing a PhD in,
um, you know, making a documentary at the same time, but I'm glad I did it.
I do feel stronger doing it, um, because like I said,
it was very hard to talk about at first and I think there's some, you know,
strength in being able to talk about it.
And so I do feel a lot stronger after making it. And, um, I,
I do feel honored when people, um,
have these genuine conversations with me after seeing it and open up to me about
their own hardships. Um, I do feel honored that, you know,
it helped them in some way.
I don't know what I would've done without astronomy.
It's really what kept me going, especially early on.
I think that's part of resilience is being part of something that's bigger than
you.
You mentioned covid affecting the, the filming.
Did it affect your research as well?
Yeah, I think it affected everybody's research. Just, you know, it it,
I think it delayed things. There were also, you know,
a few telescope closings for a bit for example. So, um,
yeah, I would say it affected all of us for sure.
I think, uh, one telescope sort of opened up since then.
Have you been able to get involved in uh, J W S T?
Yeah, so, um,
my PhD advisor is Professor Marsha Reiki and she is the
principal investigator for Near cam,
which is the primary camera on the James Webb Space Telescope. And uh,
one of the perks of that is that she got over 900 hours of J W S T
time. And so we have this very large Yeah,
we have this very large collaboration, um, with near spec, the, you know,
the instrument, the Specter graph, um, with the European Space Agency. Uh,
we have a very large collaboration and you know, we're,
we basically have access to humanity's best data of the universe and it's
been incredible to be part of that team. And so the last chapter of my thesis,
um, will be written using that data. Oh.
I made, that's just awesome, right?
Yeah, definitely .
It's one of the other main reasons I chose the University of Arizona for sure
was to work with her cuz and she's just, you know, amazing. Yeah.
So, uh, did you know that that was go, like when JW was going up,
did you know that that was a possibility? So you were kind of watching that.
? Yes, for sure. Um, yeah,
actually a lot of the grad schools I applied to,
I would look and see if, uh, you know,
different professors had time on J W S C already for cycle one or for, you know,
the early time. And so that was one of the deciding factors, uh, was, yeah,
that was certainly one of the deciding factors for grad school.
Cause I knew I wanted,
my dream was to work for J with JW s t in some way and I hope to continue that
after graduation.
But it's really lovely to know that even with everything that you have been
through are going through that astronomy research space
and that inspiration that's come from, you know,
science communicators before us is giving you, you know,
hope.
Yeah, definitely. It's been a huge part,
especially at first I really needed it as a distraction, but it's also,
you know, of course given me hope and um, you know,
part of resilience is being part of something bigger than you.
And with astronomy it does feel like we're part of something that's bigger than
us. And so that's been certainly part of my resilience as well.
Space Hope and Charity.
That documentary about Charity's life is produced and directed by Sandy
Cummings.
I've always been drawn to stories about people who are facing
extraordinary challenges and their process of finding their way through them
and how they, how they do that,
and then how it changes their lives.
And I heard about Charity's story through a mutual friend who has
known her since she was in middle school and we were just having
coffee one day and she was telling me this story about what charity had been
through and where she was now. And I got goosebumps.
I just thought that's an incredible story and so
inspiring that it was a story that I wanted to tell.
So what kind of stories have you told before?
Well,
my background is that I was a producer for N B C News for most
of my career. Many of those for Dateline N B C.
And it was long form stories or shows
for the network.
And one that I had done not too long before I met charity was
about a family from eastern Oregon who lived on a ranch and
had five children.
And after all five children were born,
they learned that they had this genetic problem
that caused car cardiomyopathy, which is heart failure.
So three of their five children needed to have heart transplants
over a period of years.
One of them had two transplants during the course of time that I was following
them.
So I followed that family for about six years as three of their children went
through heart transplants. And um,
it was just really an incredible experience.
I got to know the family very well and, um,
just to see them facing that, you know, sending their children off to surgery,
not knowing whether or not they would come out and being with them during those
moments was just really remarkable. You know,
over the course of years I covered everything from, you know,
the Oklahoma City bombing here, nine 11,
um, the terrorist attacks, just many, many stories people about, you know,
I did a story once about a french horn player.
He was a professional musician who scored some Disney films and things
like that and he had a brain tumor and
I was allowed to be in the operating room as they took this tumor out.
But what they did was they put him under anesthesia,
opened up his skull,
and then they woke him up during the surgery and they actually had him
humming tunes to make sure that they didn't damage the part of his brain
that processes music.
And so to be in an operating room with someone awake during brain surgery
was incredible. And um,
so I've just been really grateful for opportunities to meet interesting people
and see things I wouldn't be able to see otherwise.
Is it literally just a story of people? Are you trying to convey hope?
Are you trying, what is it you're trying to do?
Yes, it's the stories of people and yes,
definitely the idea of trying to convey hope because you know,
we all go through really difficult things during the course of our lives.
And to be able to see someone like Charity lose,
she really lost everything meaningful in her life.
And to see her create a new life for herself has just
been fantastic.
And so my hope is that other people watching the film will come
away feeling like they too can find hope in the
end and find new purpose,
even though they've been through some really difficult things.
The other part of Charity's story that really resonated with me
was the power of human connection.
Because to see old friends,
I mean people she hadn't seen in years who she knew when she was a kid circle
around her,
and then also perfect strangers reaching out to her and helping her get
her life back on track after this awful tragedy.
Just that human connection to me was really important.
And also just the idea that it really takes very little to have
a huge impact on someone else's life.
And so my hope is that the film also inspires people just to
be kind to each other and to reach out to people who might need
a little hand now and then, so that was the other part of it that was really,
that I really hope people take away.
This isn't presumably a new world to you,
sort of physics and the academic.
World, . Absolutely.
Was there anything that sort of surprised you about the community when you've
been researching and making the.
Film? Well, what was really interesting to me,
our very first screening was for the American Astronomical Society,
uh, during their meeting in Seattle. And honestly,
I didn't know what to expect because of course I think of people in that world
as being sort of not terribly emotive.
And I was wondering how are they going to react to this?
Are they going to think I want more science?
I don't wanna hear the personal story. And so it was really interesting doing,
um, the screening with them and to see these, you know,
old white-haired guys with their PhDs in tears.
And it just, you know, to me it just opened up this,
it just made them seem more human ,
I guess that's, of course they're human,
but it just made them seem like they connected to the human story
in a way that I wasn't sure that they would. Um, you know,
what I have loved about meeting the people in the physics world is their passion
for what they're doing,
how excited they get about these things that make absolutely no sense to me.
And fortunately,
charity dumbs everything down when she tries to explain to me what she's doing
with her research. And, um,
I think she probably is speaking to me as though I'm in sixth grade
and I think that's a good thing because then I understand what she's saying.
But it's been, you know, some of the people I've met through her are just,
they're phenomenal and brilliant and it's been fun to
be around some of her friends from the University of Arizona and her old
mentor, um, Dr.
Scott Fisher is just so passionate about his work and
has been such a huge supporter for her that it's been great.
It's been really fun.
Is that something that you knew you were going to encounter when you were
making the film That,
that the academic team around charity were that supportive?
I knew that Dr. Fisher had been supportive,
but I didn't realize to what degree and when I interviewed
him,
it was just really interesting when he talked about seeing her for the first
time after the tragedy. I mean, he,
he was in tears talking about it. I mean he just,
it was like he was right back in that moment of seeing her and the shock and
trauma that she had been through.
And I would not have expected everything that they did. I mean,
the university held a memorial service for charity's husband and son,
um, Dr.
Fisher as an undergrad gave charity an office to work from
and just really,
they just circled around her in a way that was just beautiful and supportive.
Well, I haven't managed to see the film yet.
I can help you with that. .
Well, thank you. I, I'll take you off on that if that's all right.
But I know that your goal is really to tell charity story,
but I wonder whether people when they watch the film might be drawn towards the
physics as.
Well. It introduces people to the physics a little bit.
We do talk a bit about the James Webspace telescope and the significance of
that. And a lot of it,
of course is in relation to charity's life and the work that she's doing now
because she's analyzing data that's being sent back and um,
so it really is in that context more than anything. Um,
so no, we don't really get into the physics.
She talks just a little bit about the significance of the telescope
and how that will change,
how we see everything that it really is revolutionary and about the
work that she's doing and connecting the dots between, you know,
the earliest galaxies and where we are now
with some of the data and that that's what she's doing.
And how about you? Has this made you more interested in.
Physics? I'm definitely reading a lot about the James web TA space telescope
and am definitely more interested than I was before meeting
charity. And she'll send me things,
she'll get so excited about some new piece of research and she'll send me a
picture of a graph or of something that she's all excited about and then I have
to say to her, okay, what does that mean ?
So I'm definitely learning from her.
Oh, that's great, isn't it? I mean, people will take hope from your film,
from charity story,
and I'm sure people will be drawn towards the science the way that,
that you have as well and that deep connection, I think the word is awe,
isn't it? It's awesome that deep understanding,
or even if it's just not even a deep understanding,
but just an understanding of just how immense it is.
It can be quite a soulful experience,
can't it just a grasp it a.
Little bit? Yes, yes, absolutely.
And in the film she talks about how from the time she was a small
child when things were chaotic at home,
she would go out and look up at the night sky and how that was always
calming to her. And, um, and you know,
and she talked about how it also,
the work that she's doing gives you perspective about how vast the universe
is and how we're living on this little rock in the middle of nowhere and you
realize really how small we are.
And so she does talk about some of those big picture
ideas and um,
of course the imagery from the James Webspace telescope
is stunning. And so we were able to get some of that in there as well,
which is, which is just beautiful.
Yeah, no, it's amazing stuff, isn't it.
I'm glad that that's made it into the film.
I can't wait to to see that and how you've used it.
But when you are making a film about this topic or,
and the other topics that you've made,
which are very emotional and emotive and you are speaking to people who've been
through or going through very difficult times,
how do you approach that as an interviewer.
With charity?
Because of the trauma and the P T S D that she
experienced, I've wanted to step very lightly.
I did not want to push her at all.
So as we were getting ready for the interview,
I let her know that we could stop at any time. We could take breaks. Um,
and I really let her guide the interview. I would, you know,
sort of introduce something and then let her say as much as she wanted to,
but I never pushed her for details that she might not be comfortable talking
about.
So I really kind of gave her that power over
how much and what she wanted to share.
And during the interview we did stop and, you know,
take a water break and, uh, give her a chance to recover before going on.
And, um, she did just a tremendous job. I don't know that,
um, I would've done as well as she did under the circumstances,
but it's emotional for everybody. I mean, the cameraman was in tears and he's,
you know, an older guy who's seen a lot and, um,
it was emotional for all of.
Us.
I'd like to thank Sandy and Charity for talking to me for this episode of the
Physics World Stories Podcast.
You can find out more about the film at space hope charity film.com.
I have now been fortunate enough to see the film,
and all I can say is I hope that you will all get the chance to
see it soon,
whether that's on a streaming platform or at a film
festival or however it is that you manage to see it. I hope that you will soon,
we'll be back next month when we'll be looking at quantum music.
No, I'm not quite sure what that is yet either.
I guess we'll all find out in next month's episode of the Physics World Stories
Podcast. And thank you very much for listening.
Physics World.