WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.879 - Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Stories 2 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:07.620 - podcast. I'm Andre Glesser. And in this episode, 3 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:10.480 - we're gonna be exploring the creative ways that 4 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:13.059 - people are looking at the climate emergency. 5 00:00:13.654 --> 00:00:15.014 - It's a little bit of a departure for 6 00:00:15.014 --> 00:00:16.774 - us on the podcast, but I hope you'll 7 00:00:16.774 --> 00:00:18.954 - stay with us because we are, after all, 8 00:00:19.094 --> 00:00:22.234 - all parts of this planet, which is changing 9 00:00:22.295 --> 00:00:24.294 - as a result of the climate. Of course, 10 00:00:24.294 --> 00:00:26.054 - there's a lot of physics involved in that, 11 00:00:26.054 --> 00:00:28.074 - but what we're looking at in this episode 12 00:00:28.489 --> 00:00:31.309 - is the human reaction to it. 13 00:00:33.049 --> 00:00:34.989 - We'll hear later in the podcast 14 00:00:35.369 --> 00:00:36.270 - from a composer, 15 00:00:36.649 --> 00:00:39.789 - who's created a video game along with music 16 00:00:39.929 --> 00:00:42.189 - like this, which enables people 17 00:00:42.675 --> 00:00:45.414 - to spend ten minutes in a narrative exploring 18 00:00:45.875 --> 00:00:48.594 - a very particular story, which began with the 19 00:00:48.594 --> 00:00:51.975 - composer's child sitting in the car and exclaiming 20 00:00:52.034 --> 00:00:52.774 - their despair 21 00:00:53.315 --> 00:00:54.855 - at the climate emergency. 22 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:57.679 - That's to come later in the podcast. But 23 00:00:57.679 --> 00:00:59.920 - first, we'll hear from a man who's just 24 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:01.859 - returned from a 600 25 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:05.060 - kilometer performance tour in the Arctic borderlands, 26 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:06.180 - sometimes 27 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:08.259 - dressed as a reindeer. 28 00:01:08.765 --> 00:01:11.325 - Hello. My name is Tom Bailey, and I'm 29 00:01:11.325 --> 00:01:12.385 - a Bristol based, 30 00:01:12.924 --> 00:01:14.465 - theater maker and director. 31 00:01:15.484 --> 00:01:17.564 - And I make work through a company called 32 00:01:17.564 --> 00:01:18.064 - Mechanical. 33 00:01:18.844 --> 00:01:21.325 - And for several years now, the company's been 34 00:01:21.325 --> 00:01:23.665 - focused on creating work about, 35 00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:26.099 - and with the natural world, 36 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:30.079 - exploring what it means to live on a 37 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:31.459 - changing planet and 38 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:32.900 - exploring kind 39 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.159 - of creative questions about engaging with the more 40 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:36.900 - than human, 41 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:38.715 - on the planet. 42 00:01:39.194 --> 00:01:42.174 - So asking a a question, I suppose, is 43 00:01:42.954 --> 00:01:46.634 - theater for or with just humans, or can 44 00:01:46.634 --> 00:01:47.694 - it be made 45 00:01:48.634 --> 00:01:50.734 - with and in and about, 46 00:01:51.515 --> 00:01:53.914 - more than humans as well? And so so 47 00:01:53.914 --> 00:01:54.414 - really 48 00:01:54.739 --> 00:01:55.239 - trying 49 00:01:55.619 --> 00:01:58.019 - to, I guess, respond to questions about climate 50 00:01:58.019 --> 00:02:00.119 - change, but try not 51 00:02:00.579 --> 00:02:02.739 - to continue the kind of, like, I suppose 52 00:02:04.259 --> 00:02:06.359 - or explore apocalypse scenario 53 00:02:06.819 --> 00:02:08.120 - or data heavy 54 00:02:08.419 --> 00:02:10.905 - kind of questions about climate change that tend 55 00:02:10.905 --> 00:02:13.064 - to put audiences off. So what are the 56 00:02:13.064 --> 00:02:15.324 - kind of what's the kind of more exciting, 57 00:02:15.465 --> 00:02:15.965 - fresh, 58 00:02:16.905 --> 00:02:17.405 - and 59 00:02:18.264 --> 00:02:21.145 - relevant way to explore what it is to 60 00:02:21.145 --> 00:02:22.985 - live on a changing planet? So I've just 61 00:02:22.985 --> 00:02:23.625 - come back from 62 00:02:24.710 --> 00:02:26.889 - I'm still finding the right word to to 63 00:02:27.030 --> 00:02:29.129 - term it. A long, 64 00:02:29.590 --> 00:02:30.090 - slow, 65 00:02:30.710 --> 00:02:31.210 - landscape 66 00:02:31.510 --> 00:02:35.110 - focused performance tour or green tour from one 67 00:02:35.110 --> 00:02:36.810 - festival to another festival 68 00:02:37.110 --> 00:02:39.610 - in Northern Arctic Norway. And 69 00:02:40.485 --> 00:02:42.724 - this is, I guess, one strand of what 70 00:02:42.724 --> 00:02:43.784 - the company does, 71 00:02:44.485 --> 00:02:44.985 - exploring 72 00:02:45.284 --> 00:02:45.944 - the effects, 73 00:02:47.205 --> 00:02:50.025 - or or the impact of climate change on, 74 00:02:50.724 --> 00:02:51.705 - the way that 75 00:02:52.405 --> 00:02:54.585 - we, humans, or whatever, conventionally 76 00:02:54.885 --> 00:02:55.385 - tour 77 00:02:55.889 --> 00:02:58.129 - artworks. So I guess in the theater, you 78 00:02:58.129 --> 00:02:59.269 - could say, well, there's 79 00:02:59.729 --> 00:03:02.289 - if we're looking at international touring, there's quite 80 00:03:02.289 --> 00:03:04.449 - a big sort of helicopter touring model. So 81 00:03:04.449 --> 00:03:05.729 - you get an invitation to go to a 82 00:03:05.729 --> 00:03:07.889 - festival. Great. Fly out there, do a gig 83 00:03:07.889 --> 00:03:09.375 - for a couple nights, come back. 84 00:03:10.175 --> 00:03:12.495 - And that's okay, but, obviously, it's quite carbon 85 00:03:12.495 --> 00:03:12.995 - intensive. 86 00:03:13.294 --> 00:03:15.055 - You know, there's there's one way of looking 87 00:03:15.055 --> 00:03:17.395 - at green touring, which is about, 88 00:03:17.935 --> 00:03:20.335 - k, perhaps we could use kind of green 89 00:03:20.335 --> 00:03:22.620 - means of transport. We could reduce our carbon, 90 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:24.539 - try and reach net zero, go by train 91 00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:26.319 - rather than plane, things like that. 92 00:03:27.180 --> 00:03:28.879 - And I guess I found 93 00:03:29.419 --> 00:03:31.659 - when when looking at those questions with, you 94 00:03:31.659 --> 00:03:33.659 - know, larger companies that that maybe have a 95 00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:35.965 - bigger carbon footprint, You know, Mechanical is just 96 00:03:35.965 --> 00:03:37.965 - a small scale company. So I figured that, 97 00:03:37.965 --> 00:03:40.925 - okay. Well, the the carbon footprint isn't necessarily 98 00:03:40.925 --> 00:03:41.585 - a massive 99 00:03:42.764 --> 00:03:45.004 - thing for me because I'm you know, I 100 00:03:45.004 --> 00:03:46.525 - I often work with just two or three 101 00:03:46.525 --> 00:03:48.064 - creatives in creating shows. 102 00:03:49.099 --> 00:03:51.280 - There seems to be a really exciting question 103 00:03:52.379 --> 00:03:52.879 - artistically 104 00:03:53.419 --> 00:03:54.879 - for me or conceptually. 105 00:03:55.180 --> 00:03:56.859 - What if we explore this question of green 106 00:03:56.859 --> 00:03:59.180 - touring from an artistic point of view? What 107 00:03:59.180 --> 00:03:59.680 - if 108 00:04:00.219 --> 00:04:02.060 - rather than just being about, k, getting to 109 00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:04.275 - net zero, doing business as usual, but just 110 00:04:04.354 --> 00:04:05.814 - just doing it in green means, 111 00:04:06.354 --> 00:04:06.854 - perhaps 112 00:04:07.155 --> 00:04:07.974 - climate change 113 00:04:08.514 --> 00:04:10.514 - kind of makes us really think and question 114 00:04:10.514 --> 00:04:12.614 - about the the the models that we have 115 00:04:13.155 --> 00:04:15.474 - for touring arts, and do they need to 116 00:04:15.474 --> 00:04:17.149 - change, and what, I suppose, 117 00:04:17.689 --> 00:04:19.629 - what right now kind of radical 118 00:04:20.410 --> 00:04:22.089 - solutions or different ways of doing things are 119 00:04:22.089 --> 00:04:24.009 - there. So I I kind of followed this 120 00:04:24.009 --> 00:04:25.870 - kind of question a couple years ago 121 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:28.029 - about, okay, what if we 122 00:04:29.084 --> 00:04:29.745 - are inspired 123 00:04:30.605 --> 00:04:32.285 - to tour or travel with work by the 124 00:04:32.285 --> 00:04:34.285 - way that nature moves? So can we look 125 00:04:34.285 --> 00:04:36.144 - at examples of movement in nature 126 00:04:36.444 --> 00:04:38.925 - that that, you know, could could help us 127 00:04:38.925 --> 00:04:40.785 - think about touring models? So 128 00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:42.710 - couple years back, I 129 00:04:43.650 --> 00:04:46.230 - took a show to Denmark from Scotland 130 00:04:47.170 --> 00:04:47.670 - following 131 00:04:48.610 --> 00:04:50.930 - kind of well, based on looking at old 132 00:04:50.930 --> 00:04:51.430 - maps, 133 00:04:52.449 --> 00:04:54.629 - of kind of tree lines across millennia, 134 00:04:55.585 --> 00:04:57.904 - following a kind of poetic tree line from 135 00:04:57.904 --> 00:05:00.064 - place to place. And I got from yeah. 136 00:05:00.064 --> 00:05:02.004 - Took me across Northern Scotland, Norway, 137 00:05:02.464 --> 00:05:04.785 - and and then I traveled by foot and 138 00:05:04.785 --> 00:05:07.560 - boat, and eventually got to to Denmark. So 139 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:09.879 - I I did that exploration in 2024, 140 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:11.660 - the first kind of green touring exploration. 141 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:12.540 - And, 142 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:15.660 - I just I wasn't sure what to 143 00:05:15.960 --> 00:05:17.720 - make of it. I was just, like, obviously 144 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:19.480 - wanted, you know, really enjoy walking, and I 145 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:21.240 - just thought I'd take photos on the way. 146 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:21.319 - And, 147 00:05:22.745 --> 00:05:24.605 - I was quite surprised at the 148 00:05:25.064 --> 00:05:27.064 - response to it. People seem really interested in 149 00:05:27.064 --> 00:05:27.805 - this and, 150 00:05:28.904 --> 00:05:30.665 - kind of supportive of it, and there seemed 151 00:05:30.665 --> 00:05:33.464 - to be industry appetite for what was, I 152 00:05:33.464 --> 00:05:34.845 - guess, quite a sort of 153 00:05:35.430 --> 00:05:37.449 - perhaps more of a left field approach, 154 00:05:38.389 --> 00:05:40.810 - to to a big question. If I'm somebody, 155 00:05:40.949 --> 00:05:43.110 - not you, but somebody else experiencing it, what 156 00:05:43.110 --> 00:05:44.970 - do I see? What do you see? Well, 157 00:05:45.189 --> 00:05:47.910 - I guess so, obviously, I I I did 158 00:05:47.910 --> 00:05:49.129 - that journey in 159 00:05:49.764 --> 00:05:50.345 - that originally, 160 00:05:50.724 --> 00:05:52.884 - in 2024 in a couple of couple of 161 00:05:52.884 --> 00:05:54.644 - months it took me. And I took a 162 00:05:54.644 --> 00:05:55.464 - lot of documentation, 163 00:05:56.245 --> 00:05:57.144 - photos mainly. 164 00:05:57.524 --> 00:05:58.024 - And 165 00:05:58.964 --> 00:06:01.544 - the show that I took then was about 166 00:06:04.699 --> 00:06:07.980 - species extinction and the IUCN red list. And 167 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:10.000 - so the the show that I was taking 168 00:06:11.020 --> 00:06:13.759 - involved me embodying as a kind of clown 169 00:06:14.060 --> 00:06:16.879 - or trying to embody lots of extinct species 170 00:06:17.345 --> 00:06:18.644 - in the space of an hour. 171 00:06:19.584 --> 00:06:21.985 - So I kind of started the theme of 172 00:06:21.985 --> 00:06:22.805 - sort of documenting 173 00:06:23.824 --> 00:06:26.084 - myself doing these kind of, like, outdoor performance 174 00:06:26.225 --> 00:06:26.725 - and 175 00:06:27.185 --> 00:06:28.084 - taking on, 176 00:06:28.704 --> 00:06:29.845 - the shapes of animals. 177 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:32.599 - And so it exists now as a kind 178 00:06:32.599 --> 00:06:33.099 - of, 179 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:36.039 - yeah, as a kind of photo gallery that 180 00:06:36.039 --> 00:06:37.819 - is being translated into 181 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:39.419 - a performance, 182 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:40.779 - as we speak. 183 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:43.240 - So I'm in rehearsal for that. So I 184 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.145 - felt, okay. Well, there's obviously a tour in 185 00:06:46.145 --> 00:06:48.165 - nature that is happens remotely, 186 00:06:48.865 --> 00:06:49.365 - and 187 00:06:50.145 --> 00:06:52.404 - I do that. And it's it's it's about 188 00:06:52.785 --> 00:06:55.264 - research and experience and doing that journey. But 189 00:06:55.264 --> 00:06:56.085 - then I can 190 00:06:56.829 --> 00:06:58.610 - translate that to share it with people 191 00:06:59.229 --> 00:06:59.729 - into 192 00:07:00.189 --> 00:07:01.089 - online galleries 193 00:07:01.789 --> 00:07:02.610 - and also, 194 00:07:04.110 --> 00:07:06.509 - live performance. So I guess people were really 195 00:07:06.829 --> 00:07:10.110 - seemed really interested in witnessing material from those 196 00:07:10.110 --> 00:07:12.129 - journeys actually in live performance. 197 00:07:13.545 --> 00:07:16.185 - So that brings me to the journey that 198 00:07:16.185 --> 00:07:17.004 - I've just done. 199 00:07:18.584 --> 00:07:19.564 - So, I guess, 200 00:07:20.345 --> 00:07:22.024 - following on from kind of connections I had 201 00:07:22.024 --> 00:07:24.264 - in Norway, there came a new opportunity to 202 00:07:24.264 --> 00:07:25.884 - do a journey from 203 00:07:26.509 --> 00:07:29.870 - one festival to another festival in far Northern 204 00:07:29.870 --> 00:07:32.189 - Norway. So it's kind of like perhaps a 205 00:07:32.189 --> 00:07:34.610 - 100 kilometers north of the Arctic Circle. 206 00:07:35.470 --> 00:07:37.069 - You get, you know, this bit, which is, 207 00:07:37.069 --> 00:07:39.330 - you know, essentially Norway, Finland, Sweden, 208 00:07:39.824 --> 00:07:42.004 - all are kind of slightly in the, 209 00:07:42.464 --> 00:07:43.925 - the Arctic Circle there. 210 00:07:44.865 --> 00:07:45.365 - And, 211 00:07:46.464 --> 00:07:47.204 - in a nutshell, 212 00:07:47.584 --> 00:07:48.084 - basically, 213 00:07:49.345 --> 00:07:50.245 - Donald Trump's, 214 00:07:51.345 --> 00:07:53.479 - you know, saying we we're gonna, you know, 215 00:07:53.479 --> 00:07:55.319 - take Greenland, la di da. You know, that 216 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:57.079 - was in the news a a few few 217 00:07:57.079 --> 00:07:57.819 - months ago. 218 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:00.360 - And that's just the kind of tip of 219 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.099 - the iceberg in in terms of, you know, 220 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:04.379 - an international 221 00:08:05.524 --> 00:08:08.164 - awareness and focus on the Arctic region as 222 00:08:08.164 --> 00:08:09.704 - a fast changing region 223 00:08:10.245 --> 00:08:12.264 - with a huge amount of, 224 00:08:13.284 --> 00:08:15.305 - sea and land based resources 225 00:08:15.685 --> 00:08:17.064 - and minerals and things, 226 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:22.740 - but also, you know, questions about ownership and 227 00:08:23.599 --> 00:08:24.099 - international 228 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:28.099 - access to slash sharing of those resources. 229 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.459 - My understanding is that the Arctic Ocean, 230 00:08:32.424 --> 00:08:34.985 - where the ice cap currently exists, which who 231 00:08:34.985 --> 00:08:36.664 - who knows how long that is gonna be 232 00:08:36.664 --> 00:08:39.725 - there for, but that's that's not actually 233 00:08:40.345 --> 00:08:42.985 - owned by anyone. So there's there's this kind 234 00:08:42.985 --> 00:08:45.865 - of open there's this question about governance and 235 00:08:45.865 --> 00:08:47.399 - access resources and, 236 00:08:48.040 --> 00:08:50.840 - you know, extraction and so forth that is 237 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:52.379 - very much at the forefront 238 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:53.500 - of, 239 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:57.580 - I guess I guess well, 240 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.240 - now and looking at the, the the future 241 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.205 - of the Arctic region, And it's very much 242 00:09:03.205 --> 00:09:04.644 - in the minds of people who live in 243 00:09:04.644 --> 00:09:07.065 - the region, but, obviously, it's gonna affect 244 00:09:07.605 --> 00:09:10.004 - so many people beyond the region in terms 245 00:09:10.004 --> 00:09:12.804 - of, you know, who gets access to Greenland's 246 00:09:12.804 --> 00:09:13.865 - resources or 247 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:16.160 - undersea minerals and 248 00:09:16.540 --> 00:09:18.620 - this, that, and the other shipping routes access 249 00:09:18.620 --> 00:09:20.120 - to to to, 250 00:09:20.620 --> 00:09:21.360 - to waters. 251 00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:22.480 - And 252 00:09:23.500 --> 00:09:24.000 - so 253 00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:27.040 - it's kind of, you know, a a question, 254 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:29.120 - you know, in a perhaps a broader 255 00:09:29.714 --> 00:09:32.115 - artistic sense. I was interested. Well, you know, 256 00:09:32.115 --> 00:09:34.134 - in a in a changing planet where, 257 00:09:34.995 --> 00:09:35.654 - you know, 258 00:09:37.074 --> 00:09:37.574 - landscapes 259 00:09:38.754 --> 00:09:39.975 - change over time, 260 00:09:40.995 --> 00:09:42.855 - and there's questions about, 261 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:44.330 - you know, 262 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:47.210 - as the Earth changes, 263 00:09:47.590 --> 00:09:49.690 - who has access to space, 264 00:09:49.990 --> 00:09:50.490 - place, 265 00:09:51.190 --> 00:09:51.690 - and 266 00:09:51.990 --> 00:09:53.509 - what do we do with that, and how 267 00:09:53.509 --> 00:09:55.990 - do we potentially share that seems to be 268 00:09:55.990 --> 00:09:57.210 - quite an important question. 269 00:09:57.670 --> 00:09:58.649 - And, obviously, 270 00:09:59.574 --> 00:10:02.534 - as a passionate environmentalist, I'm like, well, is 271 00:10:02.534 --> 00:10:04.794 - it all just about extraction of those resources? 272 00:10:05.014 --> 00:10:06.774 - Like, is is that the only thing that 273 00:10:06.774 --> 00:10:07.514 - we're really 274 00:10:08.214 --> 00:10:09.834 - arguing about? And 275 00:10:10.695 --> 00:10:12.315 - from a very wide lens, 276 00:10:13.149 --> 00:10:15.070 - you know, I suppose the overarching question is, 277 00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:17.409 - well, how what's a way to, 278 00:10:20.750 --> 00:10:21.970 - share or have governance 279 00:10:22.269 --> 00:10:22.769 - of 280 00:10:23.230 --> 00:10:24.690 - place and resources 281 00:10:25.784 --> 00:10:27.784 - and dot dot dot from a a more 282 00:10:27.784 --> 00:10:30.664 - than human perspective as as weird and wacky 283 00:10:30.664 --> 00:10:32.664 - as it might seem at the moment, in 284 00:10:32.664 --> 00:10:35.485 - ten years' time, it might be quite logical 285 00:10:36.024 --> 00:10:36.524 - to 286 00:10:37.544 --> 00:10:38.524 - have nature 287 00:10:38.825 --> 00:10:41.084 - on the board or in 288 00:10:41.629 --> 00:10:43.090 - some kind of counsel 289 00:10:43.629 --> 00:10:45.970 - for as as you know, nature having representation 290 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:48.929 - in decision making. You know, we've seen examples 291 00:10:48.990 --> 00:10:49.889 - of, you know, 292 00:10:50.509 --> 00:10:51.870 - mountains or rivers have, 293 00:10:52.269 --> 00:10:54.370 - be granted legal rights and representation. 294 00:10:54.909 --> 00:10:55.730 - And so 295 00:10:56.294 --> 00:10:58.214 - I guess I found myself asking, well, what 296 00:10:58.214 --> 00:10:58.714 - if 297 00:10:59.095 --> 00:11:01.575 - what if the aspects of the Arctic were 298 00:11:01.575 --> 00:11:02.315 - to have 299 00:11:02.934 --> 00:11:03.434 - representation 300 00:11:03.894 --> 00:11:05.914 - on what's called the Arctic Council, 301 00:11:06.294 --> 00:11:07.835 - which is a a an intergovernmental 302 00:11:08.855 --> 00:11:09.754 - decision making 303 00:11:10.409 --> 00:11:12.889 - panel or body that decides of what goes 304 00:11:12.889 --> 00:11:13.789 - on in the Arctic. 305 00:11:14.409 --> 00:11:14.909 - So 306 00:11:15.529 --> 00:11:17.370 - that's a kind of bit of a kind 307 00:11:17.370 --> 00:11:19.309 - of conceptual overview. So I thought, 308 00:11:20.889 --> 00:11:22.750 - you know, there's a chance to, 309 00:11:23.904 --> 00:11:26.245 - I think, well, do a theater tour that 310 00:11:26.305 --> 00:11:27.125 - is taking 311 00:11:27.585 --> 00:11:28.644 - a kind of workshop 312 00:11:29.504 --> 00:11:30.004 - from, 313 00:11:30.384 --> 00:11:32.065 - you know, trying to engage people in these 314 00:11:32.065 --> 00:11:34.884 - questions from from one festival to another. 315 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.480 - But on that tour, actually engage physically with 316 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.259 - the landscape and the nature there 317 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:43.679 - rather than read articles about it or look 318 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:44.820 - at YouTube videos. 319 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.639 - Actually go there, explore what's there, speak to 320 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:49.299 - the people, 321 00:11:49.995 --> 00:11:50.735 - run interviews, 322 00:11:51.355 --> 00:11:52.815 - I guess, try and do 323 00:11:53.355 --> 00:11:55.995 - creative work en route that kind of takes 324 00:11:55.995 --> 00:11:57.855 - in or responds to the landscape 325 00:11:58.315 --> 00:11:59.695 - as part of this research, 326 00:12:00.475 --> 00:12:02.894 - and develop a whole body of material that 327 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:05.149 - I can eventually translate into a show to 328 00:12:05.149 --> 00:12:06.610 - engage people with these things. 329 00:12:07.389 --> 00:12:09.309 - And yeah. So that's that's kinda what I 330 00:12:09.309 --> 00:12:09.809 - did. 331 00:12:10.269 --> 00:12:12.990 - Okay. So sorry. Well, just so I'm clear. 332 00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:14.910 - In the two festivals, what show were you 333 00:12:14.910 --> 00:12:16.990 - performing? Is it not this show? So the 334 00:12:17.149 --> 00:12:19.784 - yeah. So here here's the here's the rub. 335 00:12:19.784 --> 00:12:20.764 - So, like, 336 00:12:21.304 --> 00:12:24.125 - the idea was that I was like, okay. 337 00:12:24.504 --> 00:12:25.565 - For green touring, 338 00:12:26.985 --> 00:12:28.044 - is it perhaps 339 00:12:28.584 --> 00:12:31.144 - more interesting if rather than I set travel 340 00:12:31.144 --> 00:12:33.449 - simply with a premade show from a to 341 00:12:33.449 --> 00:12:33.949 - b, 342 00:12:34.569 --> 00:12:37.470 - what if the show was born out of 343 00:12:37.529 --> 00:12:38.829 - the journey that I did? 344 00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:41.370 - So the journey is kind of the show 345 00:12:41.370 --> 00:12:43.929 - and the artwork itself. So I guess from 346 00:12:43.929 --> 00:12:45.870 - a bit of a kind of conceptual angle, 347 00:12:46.174 --> 00:12:48.174 - the journey was a a two month long 348 00:12:48.174 --> 00:12:48.674 - show, 349 00:12:49.615 --> 00:12:51.394 - with nature as its audience. 350 00:12:52.174 --> 00:12:52.674 - And, 351 00:12:54.735 --> 00:12:58.434 - like so, you know, from that, I presented 352 00:12:58.654 --> 00:12:59.314 - the first, 353 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:02.200 - you know, at the finishing festival, 354 00:13:02.660 --> 00:13:05.080 - I presented a kind of hybrid performance 355 00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:09.540 - lecture as it were or performance presentation, obviously, 356 00:13:09.540 --> 00:13:11.860 - showing some of the document documentation of what 357 00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:14.840 - I'd done, but also starting to translate that 358 00:13:15.144 --> 00:13:17.485 - into a performance for audiences already. 359 00:13:18.264 --> 00:13:21.004 - So so, yeah, it's as if, you know, 360 00:13:21.945 --> 00:13:24.504 - touring without a show as it were or 361 00:13:24.504 --> 00:13:26.284 - the show coming from the tour itself. 362 00:13:26.985 --> 00:13:28.945 - Yeah. I mean, that's interesting in itself. And 363 00:13:28.945 --> 00:13:30.845 - I think the other thing that's kind of 364 00:13:31.040 --> 00:13:32.879 - just screaming out at me there from what 365 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.200 - you're talking about is that, you know, we 366 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:37.360 - we think I think most of the time, 367 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.360 - our representations of the Arctic from documentaries, from 368 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:42.899 - from artworks are about 369 00:13:43.434 --> 00:13:45.615 - the beauty of it, about the kind of 370 00:13:45.995 --> 00:13:49.434 - sublime nature that's there, about the climate that's 371 00:13:49.434 --> 00:13:49.934 - changing. 372 00:13:50.394 --> 00:13:52.815 - And then there's this kind of political angle. 373 00:13:53.675 --> 00:13:55.835 - And it's just this I had this horrible 374 00:13:55.835 --> 00:13:57.695 - thought that if you are 375 00:13:58.209 --> 00:14:00.370 - a world leader you've mentioned one already. But 376 00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:02.470 - if if you are a world leader who 377 00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:05.909 - doesn't care about climate change, then you might 378 00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:08.149 - think, do you know what? I'm gonna accelerate 379 00:14:08.209 --> 00:14:09.970 - our use of fossil fuels because it's gonna 380 00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:11.990 - open up shipping lanes, and it's gonna 381 00:14:12.324 --> 00:14:14.565 - create a world that I can Yeah. Yeah. 382 00:14:14.565 --> 00:14:17.445 - And I that's very true. And it could 383 00:14:17.445 --> 00:14:18.504 - be said that 384 00:14:19.845 --> 00:14:22.024 - some countries in the North, I. E, potentially, 385 00:14:22.084 --> 00:14:24.725 - Russia, are not averse to climate change happening 386 00:14:24.725 --> 00:14:27.179 - because it opens up access to resources and, 387 00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:29.339 - as you say, shipping shipping routes, things like 388 00:14:29.339 --> 00:14:29.839 - that, 389 00:14:30.139 --> 00:14:32.000 - stuff hidden under the perm permafrost. 390 00:14:34.059 --> 00:14:35.899 - As much as, you know, there's loads of 391 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:39.179 - methane, there's also, you know, access to resources 392 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:41.504 - that have sinned, you know, sinned or 393 00:14:41.985 --> 00:14:43.205 - hitherto remained 394 00:14:43.745 --> 00:14:44.485 - under ice. 395 00:14:44.945 --> 00:14:45.445 - So 396 00:14:46.865 --> 00:14:47.365 - it's, 397 00:14:47.825 --> 00:14:50.164 - yeah, it's it's complicated. 398 00:14:50.465 --> 00:14:51.605 - And I and I think, 399 00:14:52.225 --> 00:14:54.144 - you know, right now, in terms of the 400 00:14:54.144 --> 00:14:54.644 - the 401 00:14:55.024 --> 00:14:57.125 - parts of the Arctic that I've seen, 402 00:14:58.070 --> 00:14:58.570 - there's 403 00:14:59.910 --> 00:15:02.629 - there's a mix of feelings. So so I 404 00:15:02.629 --> 00:15:04.090 - wanted to journey through 405 00:15:05.110 --> 00:15:07.190 - a season of melt. I wanted to try 406 00:15:07.190 --> 00:15:07.929 - and understand 407 00:15:08.550 --> 00:15:10.570 - rather than go in deep, deep winter. 408 00:15:11.345 --> 00:15:13.424 - I wanted to get a sense of a 409 00:15:13.424 --> 00:15:14.965 - travel over a changing season, 410 00:15:15.825 --> 00:15:16.644 - see how, 411 00:15:17.184 --> 00:15:19.665 - you know, in particular spring, the climate change 412 00:15:19.665 --> 00:15:20.404 - is affecting, 413 00:15:21.105 --> 00:15:24.085 - that particular area. And what I found was, 414 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.919 - at the moment, it varies really year to 415 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.279 - year whatever temperature you're gonna get. That was 416 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:32.600 - the one of those the most challenging things 417 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:34.120 - to deal with is to say, okay. So 418 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.919 - I've got a a temperature band of roughly 419 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.325 - about 40 degrees to to cater for. I 420 00:15:40.325 --> 00:15:43.065 - I on any given day, it can be 421 00:15:43.445 --> 00:15:46.024 - from my about minus 30 to plus 10 422 00:15:46.485 --> 00:15:48.565 - and just depending on what the weather does 423 00:15:48.565 --> 00:15:50.585 - that week or that particular year, 424 00:15:51.285 --> 00:15:53.029 - and where I am. So 425 00:15:54.850 --> 00:15:56.610 - that meant I just had to carry a 426 00:15:56.610 --> 00:15:57.910 - lot of kit to 427 00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:00.149 - cater for different scenarios. 428 00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:03.190 - And it so happened that this year, 429 00:16:03.490 --> 00:16:07.009 - that region had an exceptionally cold, sustained cold 430 00:16:07.009 --> 00:16:08.389 - winter, which was unusual. 431 00:16:08.745 --> 00:16:09.865 - You know, I got there and people are 432 00:16:09.865 --> 00:16:11.625 - like, god, it's been mad. It it was, 433 00:16:11.625 --> 00:16:14.684 - like, minus 30 for, like, successive weeks. 434 00:16:15.544 --> 00:16:17.945 - And then around the March 10, and I 435 00:16:17.945 --> 00:16:20.585 - started my journey soon after that. Around the 436 00:16:20.585 --> 00:16:23.079 - March 10, it kind of flipped 437 00:16:23.459 --> 00:16:24.600 - to a stable, 438 00:16:25.220 --> 00:16:26.519 - warm spring 439 00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:28.839 - of of almost consistently 440 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:30.120 - plus degrees, 441 00:16:30.820 --> 00:16:33.940 - which was extremely unusual for that region to 442 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:36.019 - have that sort of lack of variation across 443 00:16:36.019 --> 00:16:36.519 - spring. 444 00:16:37.034 --> 00:16:39.674 - So what I found essentially was that meant 445 00:16:39.674 --> 00:16:41.835 - that I was traveling through a very warm 446 00:16:41.835 --> 00:16:43.754 - spring. So, okay, I didn't have to, like, 447 00:16:43.754 --> 00:16:45.995 - worry about getting frostbite so much on my 448 00:16:45.995 --> 00:16:46.735 - my hands, 449 00:16:47.274 --> 00:16:50.335 - but I was constantly battling rotten snow, 450 00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:53.789 - constantly battling melt, slushy snow, 451 00:16:54.490 --> 00:16:57.209 - poor conditions for skiing. And when you're trying 452 00:16:57.209 --> 00:16:58.350 - to drag a sled, 453 00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:00.429 - about, 454 00:17:00.809 --> 00:17:02.570 - you know, for the first half of it, 455 00:17:02.570 --> 00:17:05.069 - about 400 kilometers across Finland, 456 00:17:05.835 --> 00:17:07.615 - It's it's blooming tough work. 457 00:17:08.075 --> 00:17:08.575 - So, 458 00:17:08.954 --> 00:17:10.714 - you know, in place in terms of places 459 00:17:10.714 --> 00:17:12.255 - that I encountered, that's obviously 460 00:17:13.275 --> 00:17:14.554 - some people are like, great. You know, we 461 00:17:14.554 --> 00:17:17.115 - prefer a warmer bit of spring, but other 462 00:17:17.115 --> 00:17:19.434 - people are like, well, that's massively affecting tourism. 463 00:17:19.434 --> 00:17:20.714 - And the people who are coming to the 464 00:17:20.714 --> 00:17:22.910 - region is in you know, if you're not 465 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:24.990 - a hunter or you work in nature, then 466 00:17:24.990 --> 00:17:27.230 - you know that that's affecting, you know, fish 467 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:29.549 - migration and what comes into the region. It's 468 00:17:29.549 --> 00:17:30.049 - affecting 469 00:17:30.589 --> 00:17:32.130 - other forms of animal migration, 470 00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:34.609 - and what plants grow. So, 471 00:17:35.345 --> 00:17:37.664 - yeah, I guess I guess not everyone is 472 00:17:37.664 --> 00:17:40.224 - totally averse to climate change happening up there. 473 00:17:40.224 --> 00:17:40.724 - But, 474 00:17:41.265 --> 00:17:42.484 - yeah, people are sort 475 00:17:43.585 --> 00:17:45.525 - of concerned about it, but, 476 00:17:46.224 --> 00:17:47.664 - I guess, living with it and just living 477 00:17:47.825 --> 00:17:48.960 - you know, learning to adapt. 478 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.659 - That major difference is a bit in temperature 479 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:54.720 - from day to day, week to week. Has 480 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.559 - that been like that for a while, or 481 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:58.559 - is that what the climate change has been 482 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.179 - bringing about? Climate change is bringing that, but 483 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:05.144 - but that's not, you know next year, it 484 00:18:05.144 --> 00:18:07.404 - will guarantee to be something completely different. 485 00:18:07.784 --> 00:18:09.404 - So you get this complete unpredictability 486 00:18:09.944 --> 00:18:12.664 - of weather patterns. I guess kind of what 487 00:18:12.664 --> 00:18:14.525 - you know now is that, generally, 488 00:18:15.065 --> 00:18:17.625 - the temperature across spring and summer will be 489 00:18:17.625 --> 00:18:18.125 - warmer. 490 00:18:19.809 --> 00:18:21.509 - But as I say, like, in in winter, 491 00:18:22.289 --> 00:18:24.849 - like, this year, they were plunged into deep 492 00:18:24.849 --> 00:18:26.950 - sustained cold like they've never had before 493 00:18:27.409 --> 00:18:29.829 - or in a long time. It's it's this 494 00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:33.190 - breaking of a traditional pattern. In some areas, 495 00:18:35.445 --> 00:18:36.424 - perhaps more 496 00:18:37.204 --> 00:18:37.704 - coastal, 497 00:18:38.644 --> 00:18:40.565 - they're saying that they're kind of, in the 498 00:18:40.565 --> 00:18:43.605 - last fifty, sixty years, lost two months of 499 00:18:43.605 --> 00:18:44.105 - winter, 500 00:18:44.805 --> 00:18:45.464 - you know, 501 00:18:46.005 --> 00:18:47.464 - such as the spring change. 502 00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:49.809 - But I found that as soon as you 503 00:18:49.809 --> 00:18:50.549 - get altitude, 504 00:18:51.569 --> 00:18:53.589 - you can generally trust that 505 00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:56.230 - you'll still get your cold and your snow. 506 00:18:56.289 --> 00:18:58.210 - So as soon as I hit border mountains 507 00:18:58.210 --> 00:18:59.509 - around Finland and Norway, 508 00:19:00.445 --> 00:19:02.945 - you know, in late April, it was like 509 00:19:03.164 --> 00:19:04.465 - plunging back into 510 00:19:05.325 --> 00:19:05.825 - winter. 511 00:19:06.605 --> 00:19:09.164 - So, you know, just an example, I had 512 00:19:09.164 --> 00:19:10.945 - a a friend who 513 00:19:11.404 --> 00:19:11.904 - visited, 514 00:19:12.205 --> 00:19:13.744 - I think, a couple years ago 515 00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:16.119 - or even last year was in a sim 516 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:17.539 - in a similar area, 517 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:18.900 - in April, 518 00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:22.480 - where I traveled around the kind of Finland, 519 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:24.000 - Sweden, Norway border region, 520 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.320 - on what's called the the, you know, the 521 00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:28.799 - finger Of Of Finland that kinda pokes up 522 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.394 - into Norway. And 523 00:19:31.734 --> 00:19:33.414 - she said when I when she got there 524 00:19:33.414 --> 00:19:35.815 - in April, it was she got minus 30 525 00:19:35.815 --> 00:19:36.315 - temperatures. 526 00:19:36.695 --> 00:19:38.934 - I was thinking, alright. Better better plan for 527 00:19:38.934 --> 00:19:40.535 - that. Better, you know, make sure I've got 528 00:19:40.535 --> 00:19:42.214 - my Arctic tent. But, 529 00:19:43.015 --> 00:19:44.394 - you know, when I got there, 530 00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:47.470 - I, you know, I'd had successive days of 531 00:19:47.470 --> 00:19:50.029 - sunlight. The only sort of stable conditions I 532 00:19:50.029 --> 00:19:51.170 - could travel on were, 533 00:19:51.789 --> 00:19:54.289 - lakes and rivers, which still remain frozen. 534 00:19:54.590 --> 00:19:56.109 - But when I actually got to the border 535 00:19:56.109 --> 00:19:56.590 - river, 536 00:19:56.910 --> 00:19:58.670 - even the river was open. So I ended 537 00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:00.609 - up having to shift from skis 538 00:20:01.525 --> 00:20:03.305 - to skis and sleds to hiking, 539 00:20:03.765 --> 00:20:05.365 - but I couldn't hike up the river because 540 00:20:05.365 --> 00:20:07.684 - it was kind of, you know, breaking open. 541 00:20:07.684 --> 00:20:09.144 - So I had to go on this horrendously 542 00:20:09.285 --> 00:20:10.025 - busy road, 543 00:20:10.325 --> 00:20:12.904 - basically, a main highway up to 544 00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:16.140 - up to up to the Norwegian border. So 545 00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:18.460 - and then found at that border in mountain 546 00:20:18.460 --> 00:20:18.960 - areas, 547 00:20:19.420 --> 00:20:21.580 - oh, it's it's actually you know, I get 548 00:20:21.580 --> 00:20:23.900 - elevation, and then suddenly it's winter conditions again. 549 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:25.660 - So I had to rehire some skis and 550 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:26.240 - a sled, 551 00:20:27.019 --> 00:20:30.413 - to travel travel there. So it was a 552 00:20:30.413 --> 00:20:33.085 - bit bit mad. So I I when you're 553 00:20:33.305 --> 00:20:35.545 - as an artist, you're traveling through this this 554 00:20:35.545 --> 00:20:37.785 - kind of changing landscape and you're talking to 555 00:20:37.785 --> 00:20:38.365 - the people 556 00:20:38.744 --> 00:20:41.164 - whose lives have been affected by it. 557 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:43.680 - Can you just tell me what what what 558 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:45.599 - you're thinking in terms of how you're going 559 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:47.920 - to represent that? And and to a certain 560 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.019 - extent, my my own interest particularly 561 00:20:50.320 --> 00:20:52.960 - because my job is, you know, documentaries and 562 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.820 - things, the TV documentaries is 563 00:20:55.505 --> 00:20:58.784 - it it it's often represented by melting snow. 564 00:20:58.784 --> 00:21:01.024 - Right? Melting ice. That's how we see climate 565 00:21:01.024 --> 00:21:03.264 - change in the Arctic. But what you're talking 566 00:21:03.264 --> 00:21:06.304 - about is is much more complex than that. 567 00:21:06.304 --> 00:21:07.764 - So how how do 568 00:21:08.224 --> 00:21:10.164 - you represent that to people? Yeah. 569 00:21:10.970 --> 00:21:13.230 - I guess, first off, I like, 570 00:21:13.609 --> 00:21:15.369 - it feels like the theme of the theme 571 00:21:15.369 --> 00:21:17.289 - of borders, which was the main theme of 572 00:21:17.289 --> 00:21:17.789 - threshold, 573 00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:20.890 - was, I guess, the thought about of of 574 00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:23.529 - of breaking it down into four different areas 575 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:24.190 - of focus. 576 00:21:25.144 --> 00:21:26.505 - Because, you know, we look at a map, 577 00:21:26.505 --> 00:21:27.804 - and, of course, we just see 578 00:21:28.265 --> 00:21:30.825 - geopolitical borders that have been drawn on there. 579 00:21:30.825 --> 00:21:31.724 - But, of course, 580 00:21:32.505 --> 00:21:34.664 - you know, we expand the lens. We've got, 581 00:21:34.664 --> 00:21:37.565 - you know, the indigenous Sami community up there 582 00:21:37.829 --> 00:21:38.230 - who 583 00:21:38.630 --> 00:21:41.909 - whose notions of territory and geography don't conform 584 00:21:41.909 --> 00:21:44.230 - to those international borders, which is still a 585 00:21:44.230 --> 00:21:46.390 - big bone of contention up there. So you 586 00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:49.529 - have Sami geographies that have been based around 587 00:21:49.909 --> 00:21:51.609 - migration and and travel. 588 00:21:52.865 --> 00:21:54.484 - And you've also got 589 00:21:55.184 --> 00:21:55.684 - animals 590 00:21:56.065 --> 00:21:58.164 - living in the region, animals and plants 591 00:21:58.464 --> 00:22:01.204 - who, again, you know, have different kinds of 592 00:22:01.825 --> 00:22:03.444 - geographies, sense of borders, 593 00:22:03.984 --> 00:22:04.484 - and 594 00:22:05.809 --> 00:22:08.289 - migration patterns. And one of those was one 595 00:22:08.289 --> 00:22:11.089 - that inspired the route that I took. So 596 00:22:11.089 --> 00:22:11.589 - I, 597 00:22:12.289 --> 00:22:13.890 - you know, I'll get onto it, but as 598 00:22:13.890 --> 00:22:16.049 - part of the more than human question, I 599 00:22:16.049 --> 00:22:16.789 - was traveling 600 00:22:17.330 --> 00:22:19.170 - with the kind of kind of conceit or 601 00:22:19.170 --> 00:22:19.830 - the guise 602 00:22:20.315 --> 00:22:23.134 - of a reindeer that's taken on human form, 603 00:22:23.835 --> 00:22:25.454 - on my way to the Arctic Council. 604 00:22:26.154 --> 00:22:26.894 - And so 605 00:22:27.755 --> 00:22:28.974 - I I was journeying 606 00:22:29.275 --> 00:22:29.775 - along, 607 00:22:31.115 --> 00:22:34.315 - the roots of of traditional reindeer herding from 608 00:22:34.315 --> 00:22:34.974 - the inland 609 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:37.559 - area to the coastal area, which is, you 610 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.180 - know, a a kind of spring to summer 611 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:40.460 - migration route. 612 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:43.900 - And there's also, 613 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:46.920 - lastly, the perspective of of kind of, like, 614 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.099 - geological borders, you know, the the 615 00:22:49.595 --> 00:22:52.335 - the rivers, the the the sea, the mountains. 616 00:22:53.595 --> 00:22:54.095 - So 617 00:22:54.795 --> 00:22:57.535 - your question, how does this get represented? 618 00:22:58.154 --> 00:22:59.994 - I guess, what questions was I asking to 619 00:22:59.994 --> 00:23:02.095 - people? Well, I was obviously gathering audio 620 00:23:02.474 --> 00:23:05.220 - audio information about, you know, asking people about 621 00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:07.059 - their experience of borders, what they think about, 622 00:23:07.059 --> 00:23:08.900 - you know, how what do they think about 623 00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:11.380 - what Donald Trump said and thoughts about Arctic 624 00:23:11.380 --> 00:23:11.880 - ownership. 625 00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:13.880 - But I felt like for me, 626 00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:15.880 - I wanted the 627 00:23:17.845 --> 00:23:19.704 - input to be more about 628 00:23:20.005 --> 00:23:20.505 - imagination. 629 00:23:20.964 --> 00:23:22.565 - What if we you know? Because this is 630 00:23:22.565 --> 00:23:24.585 - a creative con creative project 631 00:23:25.204 --> 00:23:27.684 - and not just a kind of documentary or 632 00:23:27.684 --> 00:23:29.144 - evidence gathering thing. 633 00:23:29.779 --> 00:23:32.019 - So people always seem to become slightly more 634 00:23:32.019 --> 00:23:34.740 - alive and interested when I ask, well, if 635 00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:36.679 - you were to represent 636 00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:39.159 - or or be able to 637 00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:41.539 - take on the form of nature and represent 638 00:23:41.539 --> 00:23:43.539 - something in nature that mattered to you at 639 00:23:43.539 --> 00:23:45.994 - the Arctic Council, something in the Arctic region, 640 00:23:45.994 --> 00:23:47.515 - what would it be, and what would it 641 00:23:47.515 --> 00:23:48.174 - look like? 642 00:23:48.474 --> 00:23:48.974 - And, 643 00:23:49.755 --> 00:23:51.595 - you know, if there was space and time, 644 00:23:51.595 --> 00:23:53.914 - like, how would that thing move and inviting 645 00:23:53.914 --> 00:23:56.474 - people to embody what this this thing would 646 00:23:56.474 --> 00:23:59.454 - be. So that that kind of collective imagination 647 00:23:59.755 --> 00:24:00.150 - will 648 00:24:00.789 --> 00:24:03.029 - in some way, inform the bedrock of of 649 00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:05.509 - the performance that I'm trying to make. Why 650 00:24:05.509 --> 00:24:07.670 - reindeer? What what was the thinking there? Because 651 00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:09.910 - there was there was other fauna up there, 652 00:24:09.910 --> 00:24:11.750 - so why reindeer? Is it because they can't 653 00:24:11.750 --> 00:24:13.289 - fly? Is that the way? 654 00:24:14.390 --> 00:24:16.724 - Well, I guess I guess I don't know 655 00:24:16.724 --> 00:24:18.085 - if you've been to the region. Have have 656 00:24:18.085 --> 00:24:20.345 - you? No. I haven't. No. So so reindeer 657 00:24:20.404 --> 00:24:22.744 - for us are these, obviously, you know, Rudolph 658 00:24:22.964 --> 00:24:24.325 - comes across in the, 659 00:24:25.605 --> 00:24:27.365 - in the myths and the legends and the 660 00:24:27.365 --> 00:24:29.684 - the kids' stories and all of that. But 661 00:24:29.684 --> 00:24:31.224 - if, like, in the region, 662 00:24:32.710 --> 00:24:36.470 - there's almost like nothing but reindeer in terms 663 00:24:36.470 --> 00:24:39.589 - of farming. They're so prevalent. They're they're they 664 00:24:39.589 --> 00:24:40.089 - are 665 00:24:41.349 --> 00:24:43.829 - this you know, the Sami have based their 666 00:24:43.829 --> 00:24:46.490 - kind of lives around reindeer herding for centuries. 667 00:24:48.755 --> 00:24:49.335 - And reindeer 668 00:24:50.355 --> 00:24:53.894 - stuff is actually very common, like reindeer skins 669 00:24:54.035 --> 00:24:56.214 - and and then clothes made out of reindeer. 670 00:24:56.275 --> 00:24:56.775 - And, 671 00:24:57.555 --> 00:24:59.394 - there's almost not you know, you you won't 672 00:24:59.394 --> 00:25:00.775 - see a cow for miles, 673 00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:03.769 - you know, and traditional forms of agriculture. All 674 00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:06.590 - of the agriculture is actually based around reindeer, 675 00:25:08.090 --> 00:25:10.990 - which are beautiful, incredible, amazing beings. 676 00:25:11.610 --> 00:25:12.110 - And 677 00:25:14.524 --> 00:25:15.184 - I guess, 678 00:25:15.724 --> 00:25:18.765 - I was partly trying to follow that question 679 00:25:18.765 --> 00:25:20.065 - of, you know, 680 00:25:21.085 --> 00:25:22.924 - can I be inspired by a way that 681 00:25:22.924 --> 00:25:25.565 - that nature moves and found this particular reindeer 682 00:25:25.565 --> 00:25:27.565 - migration pattern and thought that could be good 683 00:25:27.565 --> 00:25:29.369 - match for the route that I might take? 684 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:33.869 - And something that that would migrate across borders 685 00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:35.470 - and your human borders. 686 00:25:36.569 --> 00:25:38.490 - But I think there's a it's fair to 687 00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:40.670 - say that there's a fair amount of mythology 688 00:25:42.089 --> 00:25:42.910 - about reindeer 689 00:25:43.369 --> 00:25:46.325 - and and legends and folk tales that seem 690 00:25:46.345 --> 00:25:49.044 - to excite me and be quite inspiring, 691 00:25:49.585 --> 00:25:52.704 - not necessarily the kind of Rudolph, red nose 692 00:25:52.704 --> 00:25:53.684 - reindeer, but 693 00:25:54.144 --> 00:25:56.005 - but certainly in Sami mythology, 694 00:25:56.944 --> 00:25:59.390 - there's a huge amount of, you know, spirituality 695 00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:01.950 - and and a myth connected to the reindeer, 696 00:26:02.330 --> 00:26:04.349 - fascinating pictorial representations 697 00:26:04.809 --> 00:26:06.269 - going back hundreds of years. 698 00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:09.049 - And I just found an yeah. Around reindeer, 699 00:26:09.049 --> 00:26:11.390 - this kind of, like, cultural storehouse 700 00:26:11.690 --> 00:26:12.190 - of 701 00:26:12.784 --> 00:26:14.944 - very exciting and beautiful stuff that I I 702 00:26:14.944 --> 00:26:17.105 - kinda really wanted to respond to. But, of 703 00:26:17.105 --> 00:26:18.704 - course, as you say, there's, you know, there's 704 00:26:18.704 --> 00:26:21.904 - salmon migrating salmon there. Bears go across the 705 00:26:21.904 --> 00:26:22.404 - border. 706 00:26:23.664 --> 00:26:25.744 - All sorts to do with plants. But I 707 00:26:25.744 --> 00:26:26.644 - guess, you know, 708 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:29.420 - how it ended up was, you know, the 709 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:30.220 - the 710 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:33.819 - reindeer became my particular kind of, like, 711 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.859 - persona or character to travel with. But 712 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:38.920 - one of the questions that we ended up 713 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.164 - exploring was, and when I say we, 714 00:26:41.944 --> 00:26:43.484 - me and a kind of artistic 715 00:26:43.944 --> 00:26:44.924 - partner, Natasha, 716 00:26:45.304 --> 00:26:47.325 - who's a designer and a maker, 717 00:26:47.625 --> 00:26:49.144 - we asked this question, well, what if the 718 00:26:49.144 --> 00:26:52.904 - reindeer were to meet other embodiments of nature 719 00:26:52.904 --> 00:26:54.099 - on the way that were kind of on 720 00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:55.779 - their way as a kind of chorus to 721 00:26:55.779 --> 00:26:56.839 - the Arctic Council. 722 00:26:57.460 --> 00:26:57.960 - So 723 00:26:58.579 --> 00:26:59.559 - we ended up 724 00:27:00.099 --> 00:27:03.700 - designing and making and photography if photographing, sorry, 725 00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:04.919 - these various kind of, 726 00:27:05.539 --> 00:27:06.759 - characters who 727 00:27:07.394 --> 00:27:09.394 - might be on their way to the Arctic 728 00:27:09.394 --> 00:27:11.815 - Council. And so it's a kind of imaginative 729 00:27:12.035 --> 00:27:14.275 - exercise built out of research into kind of 730 00:27:14.275 --> 00:27:16.115 - myth and legend in the area and also 731 00:27:16.115 --> 00:27:17.255 - the landscape itself. 732 00:27:17.715 --> 00:27:19.255 - And so we we did, 733 00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:21.039 - depictions of ice, 734 00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:22.320 - of lingonberries, 735 00:27:22.779 --> 00:27:25.420 - of arctic night, of the aurora, of the 736 00:27:25.420 --> 00:27:25.920 - forest. 737 00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:28.700 - And so we we we sort of ended 738 00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:30.779 - up creating sort of gallery of video and 739 00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:32.000 - photo of these 740 00:27:32.414 --> 00:27:34.515 - characters with an with an eye to that 741 00:27:35.055 --> 00:27:35.555 - forming 742 00:27:35.855 --> 00:27:38.335 - what the performance is is gonna be based 743 00:27:38.335 --> 00:27:40.494 - around. Cool. Did you when you were doing 744 00:27:40.494 --> 00:27:41.555 - it, did you experience 745 00:27:41.934 --> 00:27:44.035 - the any of that kind of big 746 00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:47.170 - fauna when you were traveling around? 747 00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:50.529 - No bears. The bears are very secretive there. 748 00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:53.390 - People who live there barely see them at 749 00:27:53.549 --> 00:27:55.650 - oh, sorry. Bad pun. They hardly see it. 750 00:28:00.575 --> 00:28:01.315 - We saw, 751 00:28:03.855 --> 00:28:05.234 - well, tons of reindeer. 752 00:28:07.694 --> 00:28:08.914 - I actually saw orcas. 753 00:28:10.095 --> 00:28:11.554 - Oh, wow. Saw 754 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.559 - An arctic hare and a fox in a 755 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:15.059 - chase. 756 00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:17.619 - That was pretty amazing. 757 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.920 - Lots of returning migrating birds as the spring 758 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:24.660 - went on. 759 00:28:27.904 --> 00:28:28.404 - And, 760 00:28:30.065 --> 00:28:32.384 - a sea otter. You know? So saw saw 761 00:28:32.384 --> 00:28:35.365 - some pretty cool, cool things. But, 762 00:28:36.065 --> 00:28:39.000 - yeah. Yeah. Cool. So I wanna get into 763 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.000 - just a little bit of your own, kind 764 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.259 - of personal journey on this. So you're 765 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.399 - embodying a reindeer or you're imagining your reindeer 766 00:28:47.399 --> 00:28:49.099 - or reindeer, however you Mhmm. 767 00:28:49.815 --> 00:28:52.375 - Phrase that. Are you are you listening to 768 00:28:52.375 --> 00:28:54.534 - particular things? Have you got particular music that 769 00:28:54.534 --> 00:28:55.974 - you're listening to? Are you listening to the 770 00:28:55.974 --> 00:28:58.294 - Physics World Stories podcast? Is it moving around? 771 00:28:58.294 --> 00:29:00.615 - What are you doing? Yeah. I guess I 772 00:29:00.615 --> 00:29:02.075 - guess I'm trying to, 773 00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:06.539 - well, 774 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:09.740 - I mean, first off, like, 775 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.000 - I didn't wanna get the the the this 776 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:14.359 - when I say I was traveling as a 777 00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:15.880 - reindeer, it doesn't mean I was just going 778 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:16.940 - on on all fours, 779 00:29:17.644 --> 00:29:19.404 - pretending I was a reindeer for the entire 780 00:29:19.404 --> 00:29:19.904 - way. 781 00:29:20.284 --> 00:29:22.684 - I had this, almost like a magic reindeer 782 00:29:22.684 --> 00:29:23.904 - costume. So I traveled, 783 00:29:24.284 --> 00:29:25.424 - and took with me 784 00:29:25.724 --> 00:29:27.105 - a a reindeer pelt. 785 00:29:28.204 --> 00:29:29.825 - And this was my kind of costume 786 00:29:30.169 --> 00:29:32.089 - along with some antlers that I would put 787 00:29:32.089 --> 00:29:35.210 - on mostly in kind of nighttime rituals when 788 00:29:35.210 --> 00:29:37.789 - no one else was about, and I could 789 00:29:38.890 --> 00:29:41.049 - go and go and almost use this this 790 00:29:41.049 --> 00:29:43.369 - mask and this costume to as a way 791 00:29:43.369 --> 00:29:44.829 - of experiencing the world. 792 00:29:46.744 --> 00:29:48.525 - What I wanted to do was 793 00:29:49.785 --> 00:29:51.484 - not come to the region 794 00:29:52.025 --> 00:29:54.744 - with loads of ideas beforehand and say, well, 795 00:29:54.744 --> 00:29:57.065 - I'm gonna helicopter in. I'm gonna do this, 796 00:29:57.065 --> 00:29:58.859 - this, and this, and then get out. And 797 00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:01.200 - I just kinda wanted to go there and 798 00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:02.480 - witness. 799 00:30:03.740 --> 00:30:05.920 - And because reindeer has such 800 00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:09.200 - quiet, attentive, 801 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:10.640 - ready qualities 802 00:30:11.605 --> 00:30:12.904 - or any kind of deer. 803 00:30:13.684 --> 00:30:14.825 - I kind of felt 804 00:30:15.524 --> 00:30:18.164 - that the deer was a brilliant way to 805 00:30:18.164 --> 00:30:18.904 - just simply 806 00:30:19.284 --> 00:30:20.184 - really observe 807 00:30:21.284 --> 00:30:22.984 - what's around me, really listen, 808 00:30:23.365 --> 00:30:24.184 - and really 809 00:30:24.644 --> 00:30:26.964 - look at the small things, the care, the 810 00:30:26.964 --> 00:30:27.420 - detail. 811 00:30:27.820 --> 00:30:29.340 - So I spent quite a lot of time 812 00:30:29.340 --> 00:30:31.039 - just trying to observe in detail 813 00:30:31.340 --> 00:30:32.640 - and make sound recordings, 814 00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:34.240 - take a lot of photographs, 815 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:36.320 - take lots of voice recordings, 816 00:30:37.100 --> 00:30:38.539 - kind of soak it all in as it 817 00:30:38.539 --> 00:30:39.660 - were. I I feel like I was trying 818 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:40.859 - to be a bit of a sponge during 819 00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:41.565 - this time. 820 00:30:42.524 --> 00:30:43.804 - So that's what I do in my kind 821 00:30:43.804 --> 00:30:45.964 - of reindeer guys. And then, obviously, from day 822 00:30:45.964 --> 00:30:48.365 - to day, you've got, you know, eight to 823 00:30:48.365 --> 00:30:50.704 - ten hours of journeying where you got 824 00:30:51.804 --> 00:30:53.105 - stuff to listen to, 825 00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:57.940 - stuff to look at. Although Finland, 826 00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.000 - as much as I love it, becomes quite 827 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.159 - monotonous after a while of, you know, lakes, 828 00:31:02.159 --> 00:31:04.659 - rivers, pine trees, birch trees, snow. 829 00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:07.460 - You know, eat, sleep, repeat, basically. 830 00:31:09.424 --> 00:31:11.125 - Yeah. I guess I found myself 831 00:31:11.904 --> 00:31:12.404 - listening 832 00:31:13.184 --> 00:31:15.105 - not so much to kind of voice work 833 00:31:15.105 --> 00:31:15.845 - and podcast, 834 00:31:17.505 --> 00:31:19.845 - listening to, like, slow drone music 835 00:31:20.464 --> 00:31:21.924 - because I felt that 836 00:31:23.330 --> 00:31:25.890 - one of the unexpected things that I just 837 00:31:26.049 --> 00:31:27.970 - maybe it's stupid in hindsight that I hadn't 838 00:31:27.970 --> 00:31:30.549 - thought about it. But it's almost like 839 00:31:31.570 --> 00:31:33.509 - light was the main relationship 840 00:31:34.130 --> 00:31:35.565 - across the whole thing. 841 00:31:36.444 --> 00:31:38.065 - Like, it was way brighter 842 00:31:38.684 --> 00:31:40.764 - at that time of starting than I thought 843 00:31:40.764 --> 00:31:42.284 - it would be. I kind of felt it 844 00:31:42.284 --> 00:31:44.684 - would be like full night until about the 845 00:31:44.684 --> 00:31:46.924 - end of February and then start to get 846 00:31:46.924 --> 00:31:50.119 - lighter and lighter, But we were already in 847 00:31:50.419 --> 00:31:51.879 - reasonable day brightness 848 00:31:52.899 --> 00:31:53.720 - in March. 849 00:31:54.659 --> 00:31:55.879 - And, essentially, 850 00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:57.639 - I was journeying 851 00:31:58.819 --> 00:32:01.639 - to, you know, mid late May and finishing 852 00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:04.125 - just about the time of the midnight sun, 853 00:32:04.125 --> 00:32:05.424 - the full midnight sun. 854 00:32:06.365 --> 00:32:06.865 - And 855 00:32:07.164 --> 00:32:09.105 - because it was exceptionally warm, 856 00:32:10.605 --> 00:32:11.105 - spring 857 00:32:12.045 --> 00:32:14.305 - and the sun was out quite a lot, 858 00:32:14.605 --> 00:32:16.609 - I just, you know, was able to get 859 00:32:16.609 --> 00:32:17.669 - the best of 860 00:32:18.849 --> 00:32:19.349 - seeing 861 00:32:20.690 --> 00:32:22.390 - how the sun would change, 862 00:32:24.609 --> 00:32:25.990 - and the light would change 863 00:32:26.450 --> 00:32:27.349 - day to day 864 00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:28.549 - and 865 00:32:29.409 --> 00:32:32.505 - experiencing this, like, yeah, I mean, Arctic light 866 00:32:32.505 --> 00:32:35.244 - just just feels different. It feels quite incredible 867 00:32:35.464 --> 00:32:37.144 - and makes me feel, like, really 868 00:32:37.704 --> 00:32:39.464 - yeah. Just makes me feel a bit different 869 00:32:39.464 --> 00:32:41.384 - to say how I experienced this some some 870 00:32:41.384 --> 00:32:42.284 - here in Bristol. 871 00:32:42.984 --> 00:32:43.484 - So 872 00:32:44.049 --> 00:32:46.549 - I kind of really became attuned to 873 00:32:46.930 --> 00:32:49.650 - the the kind of minutiae of changes to 874 00:32:49.650 --> 00:32:50.789 - light across 875 00:32:51.890 --> 00:32:52.630 - the journey. 876 00:32:53.089 --> 00:32:53.589 - And 877 00:32:55.650 --> 00:32:57.170 - and as much as it's a kind this 878 00:32:57.170 --> 00:32:58.930 - is a kind of physics podcast, I have 879 00:32:58.930 --> 00:33:00.184 - to say, as and as much as I 880 00:33:00.184 --> 00:33:02.565 - love engaging with scientific research, I 881 00:33:02.904 --> 00:33:05.244 - as a creative, sometimes it's it's 882 00:33:06.664 --> 00:33:08.184 - I feel it's, like, it's okay to say, 883 00:33:08.184 --> 00:33:10.664 - I you know, I wanna explore reindeer, but 884 00:33:10.664 --> 00:33:12.105 - it doesn't mean I have to read all 885 00:33:12.105 --> 00:33:14.744 - about the biology of reindeer or how trees 886 00:33:14.744 --> 00:33:16.799 - respond to Arctic light. I just wanna experience 887 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.240 - it with my body and maybe at some 888 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.559 - point later look at the science behind it. 889 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.559 - You know? So I was kind of doing 890 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.819 - kind of kind of Luddite anti science 891 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:26.819 - approach first, 892 00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:27.619 - empirical 893 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.700 - experience, and then, 894 00:33:30.434 --> 00:33:32.774 - you know, maybe refer to some research afterwards. 895 00:33:32.835 --> 00:33:34.914 - Yeah. That's interesting. I'm sure there will be 896 00:33:34.914 --> 00:33:37.394 - people listening who are shouting at their phone 897 00:33:37.394 --> 00:33:39.634 - right now. But, but there also have been 898 00:33:39.634 --> 00:33:42.034 - lots and lots of people who understand that, 899 00:33:42.034 --> 00:33:42.615 - you know, 900 00:33:43.150 --> 00:33:43.970 - any kind 901 00:33:44.670 --> 00:33:46.910 - of even if it's science communication that you're 902 00:33:46.910 --> 00:33:48.210 - doing with your 903 00:33:48.509 --> 00:33:49.009 - art, 904 00:33:49.549 --> 00:33:51.009 - you've got to let go 905 00:33:51.470 --> 00:33:51.970 - of 906 00:33:53.150 --> 00:33:55.869 - the research because otherwise, people will read a 907 00:33:55.869 --> 00:33:58.265 - scientific paper, and the art that you're creating 908 00:33:58.265 --> 00:33:59.244 - has got to 909 00:33:59.545 --> 00:34:01.224 - be something that people engage with because they're 910 00:34:01.224 --> 00:34:02.904 - not going to go and read the scientific 911 00:34:02.904 --> 00:34:05.805 - paper because that's not what people do. Right? 912 00:34:06.184 --> 00:34:08.265 - It's not. And I you know, certainly is 913 00:34:08.344 --> 00:34:10.105 - you know, when I'm making work in the 914 00:34:10.105 --> 00:34:11.900 - theater where, obviously, obviously, my primary 915 00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.940 - audience is not necessarily the research community, 916 00:34:15.799 --> 00:34:18.039 - I would say that, generally, my feeling is 917 00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:20.039 - that climate change has become a thing that 918 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:21.339 - is dominated by 919 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:22.460 - scenarios, 920 00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:23.980 - and data 921 00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:24.940 - and 922 00:34:26.394 --> 00:34:28.014 - slightly sort of depressive outlooks. 923 00:34:28.474 --> 00:34:30.394 - And it's like, how do we get away 924 00:34:30.394 --> 00:34:31.614 - from that to make it 925 00:34:33.114 --> 00:34:33.614 - either 926 00:34:34.474 --> 00:34:36.875 - a a slightly more emotive or exciting subject 927 00:34:36.875 --> 00:34:38.635 - or something that is not depressing and heavy 928 00:34:38.635 --> 00:34:41.500 - for you? But it's it's still depressing. Right? 929 00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:43.440 - I mean, it's not a good thing that's 930 00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:46.139 - happening. Well, it depends, I guess, how you 931 00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:46.960 - look at it. 932 00:34:47.339 --> 00:34:47.920 - You know? 933 00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:51.179 - Take extinction, for example. It's desperately sad that 934 00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:52.965 - this is happening, and I and I don't 935 00:34:52.965 --> 00:34:55.125 - I don't want the sixth mass extinction to 936 00:34:55.125 --> 00:34:55.625 - happen. 937 00:34:55.925 --> 00:34:58.005 - But it's the sixth mass extinction because there 938 00:34:58.005 --> 00:35:00.885 - have been five more, five previous ones. It's 939 00:35:00.885 --> 00:35:03.125 - a natural phenomenon that happens on Earth. It 940 00:35:03.125 --> 00:35:05.224 - just happens to be accelerated by us. 941 00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:09.260 - I'm sure, you know, from the perspective of 942 00:35:09.260 --> 00:35:09.760 - rocks, 943 00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:12.559 - all of this that's happening now is just 944 00:35:12.860 --> 00:35:15.099 - a tiny little blip in the history of 945 00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:16.000 - the Earth that 946 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:18.460 - kind of doesn't really give a shit what 947 00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:19.599 - we do. Like, 948 00:35:20.075 --> 00:35:22.075 - something in the future will happen with or 949 00:35:22.075 --> 00:35:23.454 - without us. So 950 00:35:24.394 --> 00:35:24.795 - it's like 951 00:35:25.755 --> 00:35:26.255 - yeah. 952 00:35:27.755 --> 00:35:29.135 - It is desperately sad, 953 00:35:29.515 --> 00:35:30.015 - but 954 00:35:31.115 --> 00:35:31.934 - it's sad 955 00:35:32.315 --> 00:35:34.095 - mainly for the reason that 956 00:35:35.269 --> 00:35:37.589 - I feel that we the science and everything 957 00:35:37.589 --> 00:35:39.609 - is so clear, and we we could mitigate 958 00:35:39.750 --> 00:35:42.389 - it like that if we had collective governance 959 00:35:42.389 --> 00:35:43.449 - and power to do that. 960 00:35:44.069 --> 00:35:44.569 - But 961 00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:47.210 - such are the systems that we've set up. 962 00:35:47.750 --> 00:35:48.809 - Obviously, we can't, 963 00:35:49.335 --> 00:35:51.894 - And it feels like this this slow decline 964 00:35:51.894 --> 00:35:54.394 - into something very tragic that's gonna happen. 965 00:35:54.934 --> 00:35:55.434 - But 966 00:35:56.534 --> 00:35:57.514 - at the same time, 967 00:35:57.974 --> 00:36:00.295 - we are nature. We are nature doing that 968 00:36:00.295 --> 00:36:00.954 - to nature, 969 00:36:01.530 --> 00:36:03.530 - and there's there's no division between us and 970 00:36:03.530 --> 00:36:05.610 - nature. So I'm I'm a bit like 971 00:36:06.090 --> 00:36:07.929 - I don't know. It's not a deterministic view 972 00:36:07.929 --> 00:36:09.849 - that we are we are screwing the planet 973 00:36:09.849 --> 00:36:12.030 - up because that's what that should happen, but 974 00:36:12.090 --> 00:36:12.590 - but 975 00:36:13.385 --> 00:36:16.025 - I yeah. A a mix of conflicting thoughts. 976 00:36:16.025 --> 00:36:18.184 - But Earlier on, you said that people were 977 00:36:18.184 --> 00:36:20.184 - more interested when you started to get into 978 00:36:20.184 --> 00:36:21.864 - the imagination side of things. But can you 979 00:36:21.864 --> 00:36:23.704 - tell me a bit about what people's reaction 980 00:36:23.704 --> 00:36:26.105 - is to you talking about those geopolitical things? 981 00:36:26.105 --> 00:36:27.724 - Talking about the Donald Trump. 982 00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:30.690 - Talking about being on the, you know, on 983 00:36:30.690 --> 00:36:31.190 - on 984 00:36:32.130 --> 00:36:34.849 - the political map between Russia and America? Do 985 00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:37.809 - is it something that's part of their day 986 00:36:37.809 --> 00:36:38.630 - to day thinking? 987 00:36:41.905 --> 00:36:43.525 - It is very much so. 988 00:36:44.144 --> 00:36:45.525 - Certainly in that region, 989 00:36:46.704 --> 00:36:47.204 - people 990 00:36:48.625 --> 00:36:51.605 - really respond passionately to that and with heart. 991 00:36:51.824 --> 00:36:52.324 - But 992 00:36:52.704 --> 00:36:55.339 - for for, you know, perhaps for UK audiences, 993 00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:57.799 - it was kind of a surprise that Donald 994 00:36:57.799 --> 00:36:59.900 - Trump was going after Greenland. 995 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:00.699 - And, 996 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.139 - you know, the the 997 00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:04.139 - the notion of Arctic geopolitics 998 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.500 - being important 999 00:37:05.905 --> 00:37:08.644 - was kind of maybe news to us, basically. 1000 00:37:08.704 --> 00:37:10.485 - But for people in that region, 1001 00:37:11.345 --> 00:37:13.105 - it's kind of been going on for years. 1002 00:37:13.105 --> 00:37:15.204 - You know? Trump just saying this again 1003 00:37:16.385 --> 00:37:18.305 - or or saying this thing about Greenland. It's 1004 00:37:18.305 --> 00:37:19.204 - kinda like, well, 1005 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.719 - big questions about Arctic ownership and politics have 1006 00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:25.900 - been on the cards for a long time. 1007 00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:26.860 - And 1008 00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:32.059 - I think 1009 00:37:32.985 --> 00:37:33.885 - I think 1010 00:37:36.265 --> 00:37:38.204 - people people are very much aware of it, 1011 00:37:38.744 --> 00:37:40.204 - and no one 1012 00:37:41.065 --> 00:37:42.585 - well, I I I guess you've got a 1013 00:37:42.585 --> 00:37:44.664 - culture, you know, in all of those countries 1014 00:37:44.664 --> 00:37:46.825 - where people are very connected to nature, and 1015 00:37:46.825 --> 00:37:48.765 - nature is essentially the industry, 1016 00:37:49.359 --> 00:37:50.099 - you know, whether 1017 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.519 - it's fishing, whether it's hunting, whether it's oil 1018 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.260 - or whatever. 1019 00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:57.300 - It's based around nature. 1020 00:37:58.559 --> 00:37:59.059 - And 1021 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.219 - I guess 1022 00:38:05.635 --> 00:38:06.614 - I think I think 1023 00:38:07.155 --> 00:38:08.454 - people seem to be, 1024 00:38:09.715 --> 00:38:11.795 - I I I guess, looking for some sort 1025 00:38:11.795 --> 00:38:13.014 - of, you know, 1026 00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:16.679 - fair fair governance. No one's saying, oh, we 1027 00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:18.619 - need to claim and own this for ourselves. 1028 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:20.699 - But I think 1029 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:22.219 - concern 1030 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:23.900 - for what happens 1031 00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:25.420 - with essentially 1032 00:38:26.755 --> 00:38:29.235 - big players who are much bigger than those 1033 00:38:29.235 --> 00:38:29.735 - countries 1034 00:38:30.355 --> 00:38:32.114 - getting a slice of the pie. So for 1035 00:38:32.114 --> 00:38:33.655 - instance, on the Arctic Council, 1036 00:38:34.195 --> 00:38:35.494 - you can also get 1037 00:38:35.795 --> 00:38:38.135 - sort of secondary observer status. 1038 00:38:38.670 --> 00:38:40.989 - So you've got, you know, Arctic nations, which 1039 00:38:40.989 --> 00:38:44.109 - are based in the Arctic region, but you've 1040 00:38:44.109 --> 00:38:45.089 - also got, 1041 00:38:45.789 --> 00:38:46.849 - you know, secondary 1042 00:38:47.710 --> 00:38:49.089 - sub status or whatever 1043 00:38:49.469 --> 00:38:51.409 - countries like India, China, 1044 00:38:52.744 --> 00:38:53.405 - The US, 1045 00:38:54.184 --> 00:38:55.704 - although, you know, they've got Alaska. So I 1046 00:38:55.704 --> 00:38:57.644 - think Alaska is in the Arctic Circle. 1047 00:39:00.105 --> 00:39:01.864 - And, of course, Russia, which are much more 1048 00:39:01.864 --> 00:39:03.724 - kind of powerful players and 1049 00:39:07.250 --> 00:39:09.670 - are of concern to, say, the smaller Scandinavian 1050 00:39:10.130 --> 00:39:11.110 - Arctic nations. 1051 00:39:11.809 --> 00:39:12.309 - And, 1052 00:39:14.610 --> 00:39:17.090 - I mean, Greenland's a completely different cattle of 1053 00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:18.550 - fish, and I think there's obviously 1054 00:39:18.849 --> 00:39:20.309 - a huge amount of 1055 00:39:21.344 --> 00:39:22.965 - concern there amongst Danes. 1056 00:39:24.465 --> 00:39:26.485 - But I I think it's this, 1057 00:39:26.864 --> 00:39:27.925 - shall we say, 1058 00:39:28.224 --> 00:39:30.085 - threat to the shakeup of, 1059 00:39:30.784 --> 00:39:31.445 - I guess, 1060 00:39:32.065 --> 00:39:34.864 - traditional relationships to the landscape and traditional notions 1061 00:39:34.864 --> 00:39:37.170 - of identity and about Arcticness and what it 1062 00:39:37.170 --> 00:39:39.429 - means to be in the Arctic region and, 1063 00:39:40.449 --> 00:39:42.050 - who has a right to be there. That 1064 00:39:42.130 --> 00:39:44.449 - I think that that concerns people. Did you 1065 00:39:44.449 --> 00:39:46.789 - see the the northern lights, the aurora borealis? 1066 00:39:47.170 --> 00:39:49.349 - I did. You know what? You got people 1067 00:39:49.824 --> 00:39:52.224 - flying in from all over and paying thousands 1068 00:39:52.224 --> 00:39:52.885 - of pounds 1069 00:39:53.265 --> 00:39:55.605 - to get a northern lights experience. 1070 00:39:55.985 --> 00:39:57.125 - And I was just 1071 00:39:57.664 --> 00:40:00.324 - there on my skis in a little hut 1072 00:40:00.465 --> 00:40:00.965 - in, 1073 00:40:02.304 --> 00:40:04.704 - literally the first night that I went out 1074 00:40:04.704 --> 00:40:05.265 - in the, 1075 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.359 - next to the border river between Russian and 1076 00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:09.319 - Russia and nor 1077 00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:11.420 - Norway where I started. 1078 00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:14.539 - It's very kinda small, 1079 00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:19.485 - incredible natural forest called the Pasvik Forest in 1080 00:40:19.485 --> 00:40:21.644 - Norway. There was a little free nature hut 1081 00:40:21.644 --> 00:40:22.144 - there 1082 00:40:22.525 --> 00:40:24.365 - and went outside at the end of the 1083 00:40:24.365 --> 00:40:26.925 - day at about seven or 08:00 and just 1084 00:40:26.925 --> 00:40:28.545 - got the most incredible 1085 00:40:29.325 --> 00:40:31.585 - display of northern lights, like, 1086 00:40:32.570 --> 00:40:33.869 - for free. You know? 1087 00:40:34.409 --> 00:40:34.730 - Mhmm. 1088 00:40:35.289 --> 00:40:36.989 - It it it was quite 1089 00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:40.030 - quite astonishing. You know, often, I think 1090 00:40:40.329 --> 00:40:42.269 - smartphone cameras kind of, 1091 00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:43.869 - I don't know, 1092 00:40:44.489 --> 00:40:47.964 - jazz jazz the northern lights up, but I've 1093 00:40:47.964 --> 00:40:49.025 - never seen them 1094 00:40:49.405 --> 00:40:51.804 - when they're actually that jazzy, but to the 1095 00:40:51.804 --> 00:40:54.204 - eye. Yeah. They were so green and wild 1096 00:40:54.204 --> 00:40:56.445 - and dancing. Amazing. And that was that was 1097 00:40:56.445 --> 00:40:58.925 - really special, but they didn't appear for me 1098 00:40:58.925 --> 00:41:00.764 - again or at least I wasn't outside a 1099 00:41:00.764 --> 00:41:02.224 - particular time. Yeah. 1100 00:41:03.019 --> 00:41:05.760 - You know, by even by, what, early April, 1101 00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:07.760 - you're getting, like, 1102 00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:11.599 - 11:11 1103 00:41:11.900 --> 00:41:13.119 - ten or 11PM 1104 00:41:13.659 --> 00:41:15.659 - darkness. So it's it's really you know, you 1105 00:41:15.659 --> 00:41:17.339 - have to stay up to see see the 1106 00:41:17.339 --> 00:41:18.135 - northern lights. 1107 00:41:19.894 --> 00:41:21.574 - Okay. So I I don't think I can 1108 00:41:21.574 --> 00:41:23.655 - keep you for too much longer or indeed 1109 00:41:23.655 --> 00:41:25.094 - the or indeed the listeners. But, 1110 00:41:27.335 --> 00:41:29.574 - I'm sort of I'm I'm aware of the 1111 00:41:29.574 --> 00:41:31.094 - fact that quite a lot of our listeners 1112 00:41:31.094 --> 00:41:33.574 - are physicists, and maybe they don't engage with 1113 00:41:33.574 --> 00:41:35.660 - art a lot. Maybe they do, but some 1114 00:41:35.660 --> 00:41:37.880 - of them won't do. And I'm I'm wondering, 1115 00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:41.219 - if there's a question in their head, which 1116 00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:41.960 - might be, 1117 00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:44.760 - you know, what what's the point of doing 1118 00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:47.059 - this art? Is it actually gonna make any 1119 00:41:47.059 --> 00:41:49.825 - difference? Is it is it just for people 1120 00:41:49.825 --> 00:41:51.985 - to enjoy something, or is it gonna have 1121 00:41:51.985 --> 00:41:52.724 - an impact? 1122 00:41:56.065 --> 00:41:56.805 - Good question, 1123 00:41:59.025 --> 00:42:01.285 - to which there's no one clear response. 1124 00:42:01.744 --> 00:42:02.405 - I mean, 1125 00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:04.579 - you know, I work in the theater, 1126 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:06.420 - in the left field theater. 1127 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:09.139 - And, 1128 00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:12.819 - you know, in a world of Netflix 1129 00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:14.500 - and all of that, 1130 00:42:15.054 --> 00:42:16.594 - you know, my audience 1131 00:42:17.054 --> 00:42:17.715 - is tiny. 1132 00:42:18.414 --> 00:42:18.914 - And 1133 00:42:19.375 --> 00:42:21.534 - I'm for quite a bit of a realist 1134 00:42:21.534 --> 00:42:24.255 - about, you know, obviously, in funding applications and 1135 00:42:24.255 --> 00:42:25.695 - things, you have to sort of give quite 1136 00:42:25.695 --> 00:42:26.275 - a utilitarian 1137 00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:29.079 - argument as to, you know, doing this because 1138 00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:30.519 - you're going to change minds, and you're gonna 1139 00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:32.059 - have an effect on, you know, the 1140 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.760 - geopolitics, climate change, or whatever. You know? As 1141 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.800 - a theater maker, I'm not. And I, my 1142 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:39.739 - audience is going to be small. And 1143 00:42:40.144 --> 00:42:42.625 - so the effects that I'm looking to make 1144 00:42:42.625 --> 00:42:43.284 - is not, 1145 00:42:44.224 --> 00:42:44.724 - quantitative. 1146 00:42:45.184 --> 00:42:46.085 - It's qualitative. 1147 00:42:47.264 --> 00:42:47.764 - So 1148 00:42:48.704 --> 00:42:51.744 - my feeling is it's like, okay. Well, actually, 1149 00:42:51.744 --> 00:42:54.304 - in this small space of live performance, which 1150 00:42:54.304 --> 00:42:54.964 - is increasingly 1151 00:42:57.640 --> 00:43:00.300 - disappearing or under threat with, you know, 1152 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:03.900 - either commercial TV or commercial theater or whatever, 1153 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.000 - is the quality of what we're able to 1154 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.164 - do in the live space actually a really 1155 00:43:12.164 --> 00:43:12.664 - unique 1156 00:43:13.204 --> 00:43:16.264 - experience for people that is able to change 1157 00:43:16.644 --> 00:43:18.804 - hearts and minds and perhaps just a small 1158 00:43:18.804 --> 00:43:19.704 - group of people, 1159 00:43:21.525 --> 00:43:23.670 - in a completely different way, in a way 1160 00:43:23.670 --> 00:43:25.750 - that is not replicated in any other form 1161 00:43:25.750 --> 00:43:26.329 - of culture. 1162 00:43:28.309 --> 00:43:30.309 - Is that going to lead people to take 1163 00:43:30.309 --> 00:43:33.050 - up pitchforks and fight against climate change? 1164 00:43:33.429 --> 00:43:34.409 - Probably not. 1165 00:43:35.109 --> 00:43:35.609 - So 1166 00:43:37.905 --> 00:43:40.704 - it's it's more about, okay. Well, we're looking 1167 00:43:40.704 --> 00:43:41.204 - at 1168 00:43:42.144 --> 00:43:44.644 - trying to create an artwork. This is about 1169 00:43:44.945 --> 00:43:47.125 - trying to offer a beautiful gift 1170 00:43:47.664 --> 00:43:49.925 - and quality of life to the people 1171 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:51.380 - or nature 1172 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.239 - in the room with you or outdoors with 1173 00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:55.940 - you at that particular time. 1174 00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:57.380 - I suppose 1175 00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.199 - the way of seeing that is just like 1176 00:43:59.839 --> 00:44:01.440 - yeah. A way of seeing this kind of 1177 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:04.260 - theater is just a really a gift of 1178 00:44:04.525 --> 00:44:05.184 - a qualitative 1179 00:44:05.485 --> 00:44:06.864 - and beautiful experience 1180 00:44:07.405 --> 00:44:09.425 - that you won't find anywhere else. 1181 00:44:11.005 --> 00:44:13.184 - So shall we say, you know, niche theater 1182 00:44:13.405 --> 00:44:14.065 - is about 1183 00:44:14.445 --> 00:44:14.945 - boutique, 1184 00:44:15.565 --> 00:44:16.065 - special, 1185 00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:18.619 - once in a lifetime experience 1186 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:19.819 - rather than 1187 00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:21.339 - a bums on seats, 1188 00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.059 - you know, can we make people laugh approach. 1189 00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:26.299 - If people would like to 1190 00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.175 - experience your theater, and I know I would, 1191 00:44:29.255 --> 00:44:31.574 - how would we do that? I guess, first 1192 00:44:31.574 --> 00:44:33.414 - up is that I'm going to put a 1193 00:44:33.414 --> 00:44:35.914 - lot of the documentation video 1194 00:44:36.695 --> 00:44:37.195 - and, 1195 00:44:37.655 --> 00:44:40.775 - stills and audio onto an online platform over 1196 00:44:40.775 --> 00:44:42.535 - the next few months, and that'll be, you 1197 00:44:42.535 --> 00:44:44.719 - know, where I can share at least first 1198 00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:46.019 - up since the journey. 1199 00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:49.199 - The show will probably take about one or 1200 00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:50.739 - two years to develop, 1201 00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:54.799 - so I devised work, and we'll iteratively develop 1202 00:44:54.799 --> 00:44:55.699 - it in rehearsals 1203 00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:58.019 - and start presenting it in 1204 00:44:58.335 --> 00:44:59.234 - stages and festivals, 1205 00:44:59.775 --> 00:45:01.554 - as or next year. So, 1206 00:45:02.655 --> 00:45:03.635 - watch this space. 1207 00:45:04.494 --> 00:45:07.375 - You know, theater's a slow burner, but, I 1208 00:45:07.375 --> 00:45:08.594 - need, you know, 1209 00:45:08.974 --> 00:45:09.474 - fundraising. 1210 00:45:09.775 --> 00:45:10.275 - And, 1211 00:45:11.135 --> 00:45:11.635 - yeah, 1212 00:45:11.949 --> 00:45:13.789 - to to to to get the show over 1213 00:45:13.789 --> 00:45:15.949 - the line, need to need to get some 1214 00:45:15.949 --> 00:45:17.170 - luck from the arts council. 1215 00:45:21.630 --> 00:45:23.309 - We wish Tom all the luck with the 1216 00:45:23.309 --> 00:45:25.534 - arts council for the funding for that and 1217 00:45:25.534 --> 00:45:27.985 - hopefully some of you will be able to 1218 00:45:27.985 --> 00:45:30.436 - experience that theater. But we turn now to 1219 00:45:30.436 --> 00:45:32.887 - a video game which is all born out 1220 00:45:32.887 --> 00:45:35.338 - of the experience a composer had talking to 1221 00:45:35.338 --> 00:45:38.309 - their child in the car about the climate 1222 00:45:38.309 --> 00:45:38.809 - emergency. 1223 00:45:42.070 --> 00:45:45.190 - So I'm Naomi Hart, and I am a 1224 00:45:45.190 --> 00:45:45.690 - composer. 1225 00:45:46.470 --> 00:45:46.970 - And, 1226 00:45:47.829 --> 00:45:49.829 - a few years ago, about five four or 1227 00:45:49.829 --> 00:45:51.590 - five years ago, I did a master's in 1228 00:45:51.590 --> 00:45:52.844 - sound and music for interactive 1229 00:45:53.405 --> 00:45:53.905 - games. 1230 00:45:54.525 --> 00:45:55.025 - And 1231 00:45:55.565 --> 00:45:57.984 - from there, I've been kind of weaving my 1232 00:45:58.364 --> 00:45:58.864 - compositions 1233 00:45:59.244 --> 00:45:59.744 - into, 1234 00:46:01.005 --> 00:46:02.144 - interactive environments, 1235 00:46:02.525 --> 00:46:05.105 - either as personal personal projects or 1236 00:46:05.405 --> 00:46:07.489 - recently as as little commissions. 1237 00:46:08.030 --> 00:46:09.630 - Tell us about the game that you've created. 1238 00:46:09.630 --> 00:46:11.309 - Where did it come from, and can you 1239 00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:13.230 - sort of explain what it is? I mean, 1240 00:46:13.230 --> 00:46:15.469 - people will be able to find the link 1241 00:46:15.469 --> 00:46:18.110 - on Physics World website, physicsworld.com. 1242 00:46:18.110 --> 00:46:20.465 - But if you could sort of tell us 1243 00:46:20.465 --> 00:46:22.305 - what people should expect when they go to 1244 00:46:22.305 --> 00:46:24.465 - that link, that would be great. So I've 1245 00:46:24.465 --> 00:46:26.704 - made a small game in an engine called 1246 00:46:26.704 --> 00:46:27.204 - Bitsy, 1247 00:46:27.505 --> 00:46:28.324 - which is, 1248 00:46:28.785 --> 00:46:30.385 - it's like a very simple kind of game 1249 00:46:30.385 --> 00:46:30.885 - engine, 1250 00:46:31.425 --> 00:46:34.144 - using, like, pixel art and it's like a 1251 00:46:34.144 --> 00:46:35.639 - two d game. 1252 00:46:36.340 --> 00:46:38.179 - When you go to the link, you will 1253 00:46:38.179 --> 00:46:39.239 - have a ten minute 1254 00:46:39.859 --> 00:46:40.359 - story 1255 00:46:40.659 --> 00:46:42.599 - experience where you can move around 1256 00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:44.440 - and chat to people 1257 00:46:46.099 --> 00:46:47.400 - and think about 1258 00:46:47.859 --> 00:46:48.599 - the subjects 1259 00:46:48.980 --> 00:46:49.480 - that 1260 00:46:49.824 --> 00:46:51.765 - are brought up within that experience. 1261 00:46:52.304 --> 00:46:54.304 - And while you do that, you'll hopefully have 1262 00:46:54.304 --> 00:46:56.804 - your headphones on and you'll listen to music 1263 00:46:57.425 --> 00:46:58.164 - that will 1264 00:46:58.545 --> 00:47:00.005 - hopefully make you feel 1265 00:47:00.465 --> 00:47:02.005 - like it's okay. 1266 00:47:02.469 --> 00:47:04.550 - We're all in this together. And, yeah, this 1267 00:47:04.550 --> 00:47:05.769 - is difficult, but 1268 00:47:06.869 --> 00:47:08.809 - we can talk to each other about it. 1269 00:47:08.869 --> 00:47:11.030 - So it's a lovely, lovely thing. I have 1270 00:47:11.030 --> 00:47:12.010 - played the game 1271 00:47:12.390 --> 00:47:13.369 - several times. 1272 00:47:13.989 --> 00:47:16.090 - And that that not because 1273 00:47:16.775 --> 00:47:18.394 - of what I'm about to say, 1274 00:47:18.775 --> 00:47:22.055 - but because it's absolutely beautiful. But what is 1275 00:47:22.215 --> 00:47:23.974 - that's sorry. That is the reason. But this 1276 00:47:23.974 --> 00:47:26.215 - next thing is the reason, which is that 1277 00:47:26.215 --> 00:47:29.039 - I feature in the game, which is which 1278 00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:31.079 - is a delightful thing. I never thought I'd 1279 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.000 - feature in a is it a computer game, 1280 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.440 - a video game? What is it? How do 1281 00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:36.359 - you describe it? Oh, we can call it 1282 00:47:36.359 --> 00:47:38.119 - a video game. Yeah. It's a it's it's 1283 00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:40.359 - a little video game. Amazing. Yeah. You're in 1284 00:47:40.359 --> 00:47:42.914 - video game on Tuesday. Right? Yes. So Yeah. 1285 00:47:43.315 --> 00:47:44.835 - But I wanna get onto the music. But 1286 00:47:44.835 --> 00:47:46.195 - could you tell me a bit about the 1287 00:47:46.195 --> 00:47:48.275 - the the process of creating this? Because it 1288 00:47:48.355 --> 00:47:50.594 - it's sort of it it's come out of 1289 00:47:50.594 --> 00:47:51.875 - explorations of our, 1290 00:47:52.515 --> 00:47:54.855 - our reactions to climate change. 1291 00:47:56.539 --> 00:47:59.099 - Yes. It has. So I think so when 1292 00:47:59.099 --> 00:47:59.760 - I started, 1293 00:48:00.219 --> 00:48:01.900 - thinking about the concept of the game and 1294 00:48:01.900 --> 00:48:03.980 - making the game, I knew that I wanted 1295 00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:05.760 - the music to feel as beautiful 1296 00:48:06.139 --> 00:48:06.639 - as 1297 00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:09.355 - it could be because that was that was 1298 00:48:09.355 --> 00:48:11.114 - in a way gonna be the contrast between 1299 00:48:11.114 --> 00:48:12.494 - the very, very simple game, 1300 00:48:13.594 --> 00:48:14.815 - look and the style 1301 00:48:15.355 --> 00:48:17.035 - and the sort of functionality of the game. 1302 00:48:17.035 --> 00:48:18.394 - And but I wanted the music to just 1303 00:48:18.394 --> 00:48:20.655 - feel really kind of rich and lovely. 1304 00:48:21.809 --> 00:48:23.349 - So I just started kind of, 1305 00:48:23.809 --> 00:48:24.309 - improvising 1306 00:48:24.849 --> 00:48:25.590 - little bits 1307 00:48:25.890 --> 00:48:28.369 - of music on my synthesizer and cello and 1308 00:48:28.369 --> 00:48:28.869 - stuff. 1309 00:48:29.250 --> 00:48:31.170 - And until I came to a point where 1310 00:48:31.170 --> 00:48:32.610 - I just thought, oh, that's that's the right 1311 00:48:32.610 --> 00:48:34.130 - feeling for that part of the game. That's 1312 00:48:34.130 --> 00:48:36.425 - exactly what I want to feel as I 1313 00:48:36.425 --> 00:48:37.864 - start this. And then I also had some, 1314 00:48:37.864 --> 00:48:39.704 - like, placeholder music. So while I was developing 1315 00:48:39.704 --> 00:48:41.405 - the game, I just had sort of ideas, 1316 00:48:41.784 --> 00:48:43.945 - sort of like something like synthesized love, Edgios 1317 00:48:43.945 --> 00:48:45.644 - are gonna be okay here. 1318 00:48:46.184 --> 00:48:47.625 - But I knew that wasn't gonna be the 1319 00:48:47.625 --> 00:48:49.304 - final project, so I had to kinda, like, 1320 00:48:49.304 --> 00:48:51.530 - go back into the music side of things 1321 00:48:51.750 --> 00:48:54.070 - after the game was pretty much finished and 1322 00:48:54.070 --> 00:48:56.329 - be like, right now I'm gonna make 1323 00:48:56.710 --> 00:48:58.469 - the music that I really kind of wanna 1324 00:48:58.469 --> 00:49:00.949 - hear and would delight my ears as a 1325 00:49:00.949 --> 00:49:03.269 - listener. So then I kind of reworked some 1326 00:49:03.269 --> 00:49:04.570 - of those placeholder 1327 00:49:05.030 --> 00:49:06.010 - tunes and, 1328 00:49:07.094 --> 00:49:08.375 - and yeah. And I just sort of happened 1329 00:49:08.375 --> 00:49:09.114 - across some 1330 00:49:09.574 --> 00:49:11.894 - little melodies that I just thought, oh, wow. 1331 00:49:11.894 --> 00:49:14.054 - That's that's really satisfying to me. Like, I 1332 00:49:14.054 --> 00:49:16.215 - really like that. And the nice thing about 1333 00:49:16.215 --> 00:49:18.054 - the brief was so I should mention that 1334 00:49:18.054 --> 00:49:20.819 - this was commissioned by the Yorkshire Sound Women 1335 00:49:20.819 --> 00:49:21.319 - Network, 1336 00:49:21.940 --> 00:49:24.359 - who are a really good organization in Yorkshire. 1337 00:49:24.819 --> 00:49:25.319 - And 1338 00:49:25.779 --> 00:49:28.099 - it was a completely open musical brief, so 1339 00:49:28.099 --> 00:49:30.019 - you could just create whatever you wanted. So 1340 00:49:30.019 --> 00:49:31.699 - that was as a composer, that was just 1341 00:49:31.699 --> 00:49:33.699 - amazing. You've got a a a game that 1342 00:49:33.699 --> 00:49:34.519 - you're creating, 1343 00:49:35.434 --> 00:49:37.195 - and then you're putting music to to it. 1344 00:49:37.195 --> 00:49:38.734 - I'd never composed anything 1345 00:49:39.594 --> 00:49:40.094 - properly. 1346 00:49:40.474 --> 00:49:41.454 - So when 1347 00:49:41.994 --> 00:49:43.594 - so so you're sitting, what, at a at 1348 00:49:43.594 --> 00:49:45.114 - a piano? Are you is that how you 1349 00:49:45.114 --> 00:49:47.454 - compose it? And you're just sort of noodling? 1350 00:49:47.514 --> 00:49:49.579 - How does it work? I do noodle. That 1351 00:49:49.579 --> 00:49:51.820 - is my process. Yeah. Lots of people don't. 1352 00:49:51.820 --> 00:49:53.260 - Lots of people kind of they have a 1353 00:49:53.260 --> 00:49:54.460 - plan, they can hear it in their heads, 1354 00:49:54.460 --> 00:49:56.460 - and then they start, you know, mapping all 1355 00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:59.199 - that. I definitely just start by, 1356 00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:02.699 - playing on whatever instrument I decide I'm gonna 1357 00:50:02.699 --> 00:50:03.199 - use. 1358 00:50:04.554 --> 00:50:06.635 - Synthesizer mainly, so I had that set up 1359 00:50:06.635 --> 00:50:07.695 - beside me, and 1360 00:50:07.994 --> 00:50:09.355 - and I am. I'm just kind of I 1361 00:50:09.355 --> 00:50:11.535 - just let myself go completely free 1362 00:50:11.914 --> 00:50:13.675 - free form and just, 1363 00:50:14.155 --> 00:50:15.295 - just make some sounds. 1364 00:50:16.170 --> 00:50:17.929 - Then what tends to happen then is that 1365 00:50:17.929 --> 00:50:19.369 - I'll find something that I'm just like, oh, 1366 00:50:19.369 --> 00:50:22.089 - that's interesting, oh, that's a bit unexpected, so 1367 00:50:22.089 --> 00:50:24.969 - I've been recording something going along and then 1368 00:50:24.969 --> 00:50:27.210 - I'll then create more music in response to 1369 00:50:27.210 --> 00:50:28.349 - those things 1370 00:50:28.809 --> 00:50:29.309 - and 1371 00:50:29.694 --> 00:50:31.054 - piece it together a bit like that. So 1372 00:50:31.054 --> 00:50:32.355 - it's a bit like a kind of collage 1373 00:50:32.414 --> 00:50:32.914 - sometimes. 1374 00:50:33.934 --> 00:50:36.255 - Things that I'm really happy with musically and 1375 00:50:36.255 --> 00:50:36.755 - then, 1376 00:50:37.534 --> 00:50:38.974 - and then I might just start playing along 1377 00:50:38.974 --> 00:50:41.614 - and improvising over those and I just tend 1378 00:50:41.614 --> 00:50:42.194 - to then 1379 00:50:43.409 --> 00:50:45.730 - find things organically that I'm like, oh, yeah. 1380 00:50:45.730 --> 00:50:46.869 - That sounds great there. 1381 00:50:47.170 --> 00:50:48.690 - Or that bit didn't work. I'm gonna do 1382 00:50:48.690 --> 00:50:49.969 - a retake. But I think I I think 1383 00:50:49.969 --> 00:50:51.010 - I sort of know what I need to 1384 00:50:51.010 --> 00:50:52.949 - do to fix that to make that nicer. 1385 00:50:54.369 --> 00:50:56.769 - Yeah. So do you do you involve anybody 1386 00:50:56.769 --> 00:50:58.585 - else in the process? Like, were you there 1387 00:50:58.664 --> 00:51:00.505 - is there anybody that you would trust to 1388 00:51:00.505 --> 00:51:03.625 - go, I've is this is this right? Is 1389 00:51:03.625 --> 00:51:05.304 - this does this feel do you feel what 1390 00:51:05.304 --> 00:51:06.824 - I'm supposed to you're supposed to oh, I 1391 00:51:06.824 --> 00:51:08.344 - don't know what it is, but do you 1392 00:51:08.344 --> 00:51:10.445 - ask questions of other people in the processes? 1393 00:51:10.505 --> 00:51:12.585 - I do. I do. I mean, both me 1394 00:51:12.585 --> 00:51:14.250 - and my husband work from home. So if 1395 00:51:14.250 --> 00:51:16.650 - I think I've got something good, I'm like, 1396 00:51:16.650 --> 00:51:18.010 - oh, can you just listen to this? Do 1397 00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:18.989 - you think that's nice? 1398 00:51:19.289 --> 00:51:20.590 - And, you know, 1399 00:51:21.050 --> 00:51:23.050 - more often than not, he'll be like, yeah. 1400 00:51:23.050 --> 00:51:24.969 - Or sometimes he's a little bit like, yeah. 1401 00:51:24.969 --> 00:51:25.630 - It's okay. 1402 00:51:26.655 --> 00:51:28.094 - But at the end of the day, I 1403 00:51:28.094 --> 00:51:30.094 - think I tend to know personally if it's 1404 00:51:30.094 --> 00:51:31.695 - something I really like because I'll start to 1405 00:51:31.695 --> 00:51:32.974 - kinda want to listen to it over and 1406 00:51:32.974 --> 00:51:34.414 - over again. Like, if I've made something that 1407 00:51:34.414 --> 00:51:35.954 - really delights my own ears, 1408 00:51:36.335 --> 00:51:38.735 - I'll be like, oh, yeah. That's that's gold, 1409 00:51:38.735 --> 00:51:39.954 - and I'll be like that. 1410 00:51:40.789 --> 00:51:42.389 - Yes. Well, I can tell you it delighted 1411 00:51:42.389 --> 00:51:44.489 - my ears when I was playing the game. 1412 00:51:44.869 --> 00:51:46.550 - And the other thing about the game is 1413 00:51:46.550 --> 00:51:48.389 - that there is this story in it. So 1414 00:51:48.389 --> 00:51:49.130 - there's this 1415 00:51:50.070 --> 00:51:50.570 - mixture 1416 00:51:51.110 --> 00:51:54.309 - of music and storytelling, which are helping people 1417 00:51:54.309 --> 00:51:56.394 - who are playing their game to explore their 1418 00:51:56.695 --> 00:51:57.355 - own feelings 1419 00:51:57.655 --> 00:52:00.315 - and reactions to the climate crisis. 1420 00:52:00.695 --> 00:52:03.255 - Yes. Is it a crisis now or disaster? 1421 00:52:03.255 --> 00:52:05.014 - I don't know quite what what stage we're 1422 00:52:05.014 --> 00:52:06.855 - at at this particular moment. I don't know. 1423 00:52:06.855 --> 00:52:08.723 - Well, the wording in the brief that we 1424 00:52:08.723 --> 00:52:10.858 - had from the commission said that if you 1425 00:52:10.858 --> 00:52:12.992 - wanted to explore themes about the climate emergency, 1426 00:52:12.992 --> 00:52:15.661 - so that was Okay. That was the the 1427 00:52:15.661 --> 00:52:17.795 - wording there. You you can't. We didn't have 1428 00:52:17.795 --> 00:52:19.930 - to, but I did. Yes. Okay. That's good. 1429 00:52:19.930 --> 00:52:22.065 - So how how did that how did that 1430 00:52:22.144 --> 00:52:24.065 - feel for you then? What was your first 1431 00:52:24.065 --> 00:52:25.664 - reaction? Did you go through a few different 1432 00:52:25.664 --> 00:52:28.304 - ideas before landing on this one? I did 1433 00:52:28.304 --> 00:52:29.684 - actually. My first 1434 00:52:30.144 --> 00:52:31.605 - idea was to 1435 00:52:32.144 --> 00:52:34.530 - think about how do you feel about it 1436 00:52:34.769 --> 00:52:36.769 - today? Like in this moment. And I thought 1437 00:52:36.769 --> 00:52:38.610 - I could create a game where you could 1438 00:52:38.610 --> 00:52:40.390 - choose whether you're feeling grief, 1439 00:52:41.250 --> 00:52:41.750 - despair, 1440 00:52:43.010 --> 00:52:43.510 - neutral. 1441 00:52:44.050 --> 00:52:45.489 - You know, you might be thinking of other 1442 00:52:45.489 --> 00:52:47.250 - things that day. And then there might be 1443 00:52:47.250 --> 00:52:48.929 - like little offshoot games that you could go 1444 00:52:48.929 --> 00:52:51.034 - and explore, but that just didn't really come 1445 00:52:51.034 --> 00:52:53.275 - to anything. And then when I when I 1446 00:52:53.275 --> 00:52:55.034 - decided I was gonna make it in Bitsy, 1447 00:52:55.034 --> 00:52:57.755 - which is, it's got really tight constraints on 1448 00:52:57.755 --> 00:52:58.574 - how you can 1449 00:52:59.034 --> 00:53:00.474 - create a game in that. So you can't 1450 00:53:00.474 --> 00:53:02.369 - necessarily point and click and do that sort 1451 00:53:02.369 --> 00:53:03.789 - of thing anymore walking around. 1452 00:53:04.250 --> 00:53:04.750 - So, 1453 00:53:05.289 --> 00:53:07.050 - I then realized like, no, that's, that's just 1454 00:53:07.050 --> 00:53:08.590 - not gonna work. So then I, 1455 00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:10.429 - I think that I just, 1456 00:53:10.730 --> 00:53:12.590 - I watched a lot of Bitsy games 1457 00:53:12.890 --> 00:53:13.390 - and 1458 00:53:13.944 --> 00:53:15.545 - the kind of, the theme that runs through 1459 00:53:15.545 --> 00:53:17.144 - these is that they can be just really 1460 00:53:17.144 --> 00:53:18.045 - quiet, intimate 1461 00:53:18.585 --> 00:53:19.085 - storytelling 1462 00:53:19.864 --> 00:53:22.344 - from a very kind of personal viewpoint. And 1463 00:53:22.344 --> 00:53:23.784 - that's what's, that's what a lot of people 1464 00:53:23.784 --> 00:53:25.864 - really like about them is that you're just 1465 00:53:25.864 --> 00:53:28.424 - getting these like snapshots of someone else's life 1466 00:53:28.424 --> 00:53:31.260 - or something that's happened. And I just thought, 1467 00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:32.700 - oh, that's quite an interesting angle. Let's maybe 1468 00:53:32.700 --> 00:53:35.260 - just start with that thing that my kids 1469 00:53:35.260 --> 00:53:37.039 - said to me about the climate emergency 1470 00:53:37.420 --> 00:53:40.059 - eight years ago, which absolutely broke my heart. 1471 00:53:40.059 --> 00:53:40.559 - And 1472 00:53:41.019 --> 00:53:41.519 - maybe 1473 00:53:42.140 --> 00:53:44.300 - then I could, oh, well, I should, you 1474 00:53:44.300 --> 00:53:45.315 - know, I've got friends that 1475 00:53:46.114 --> 00:53:48.755 - are, you know, involved in science or climate 1476 00:53:48.755 --> 00:53:50.994 - and maybe I can chat to them about 1477 00:53:50.994 --> 00:53:53.074 - how they manage their feelings in the face 1478 00:53:53.074 --> 00:53:53.574 - of, 1479 00:53:54.434 --> 00:53:56.034 - you know, how we're all trying to deal 1480 00:53:56.034 --> 00:53:57.554 - with it these days, you know, because we're 1481 00:53:57.554 --> 00:53:58.230 - sort of, 1482 00:53:58.630 --> 00:54:00.170 - we're like a number of years into 1483 00:54:00.630 --> 00:54:03.670 - this being the norm now. And it's, I 1484 00:54:03.670 --> 00:54:05.349 - think it is an interesting point to say, 1485 00:54:05.349 --> 00:54:07.369 - like, how, how have we all kind of, 1486 00:54:08.469 --> 00:54:10.389 - coped this far and how do we all 1487 00:54:10.389 --> 00:54:11.849 - get on with our day to day lives 1488 00:54:11.989 --> 00:54:13.609 - when this is going on in the background? 1489 00:54:13.670 --> 00:54:14.114 - And, 1490 00:54:15.394 --> 00:54:17.155 - so, yeah, it just just just felt like, 1491 00:54:17.155 --> 00:54:18.514 - oh, yeah. That just felt right. And then 1492 00:54:18.514 --> 00:54:20.034 - I could see that there was a narrative 1493 00:54:20.034 --> 00:54:21.474 - knitting together. I could go and talk to 1494 00:54:21.474 --> 00:54:22.675 - my child at the end as well of 1495 00:54:22.675 --> 00:54:24.295 - the game and kind of bring it all 1496 00:54:24.434 --> 00:54:26.054 - bring it all in a neat narrative. 1497 00:54:26.780 --> 00:54:27.599 - Yeah. Absolutely. 1498 00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:29.579 - I don't I don't want to say too 1499 00:54:29.579 --> 00:54:31.260 - much about what happens in the story because 1500 00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:32.460 - I want people to go and play the 1501 00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:33.980 - game. It want to take them what did 1502 00:54:33.980 --> 00:54:35.339 - you say about ten minutes to play the 1503 00:54:35.339 --> 00:54:37.339 - game? It's about ten minutes. Yeah. Yeah. So 1504 00:54:37.339 --> 00:54:39.500 - I think let's not let's not do many 1505 00:54:39.500 --> 00:54:41.339 - spoilers on the game because I want people 1506 00:54:41.339 --> 00:54:42.485 - to go and play the ten minutes of 1507 00:54:42.485 --> 00:54:44.164 - your life if you're listening to this podcast. 1508 00:54:44.164 --> 00:54:44.664 - Just 1509 00:54:44.965 --> 00:54:46.644 - find at the end of it a computer 1510 00:54:46.644 --> 00:54:49.284 - and some headphones ideally to enjoy that and, 1511 00:54:49.605 --> 00:54:51.005 - we'll do that. But I just I want 1512 00:54:51.125 --> 00:54:52.885 - I wanted to just explore that a little 1513 00:54:52.885 --> 00:54:53.945 - bit with you because 1514 00:54:54.244 --> 00:54:55.590 - we're both parents of 1515 00:54:56.150 --> 00:54:58.710 - similar age children. Right? Yes. It's a, 1516 00:54:59.910 --> 00:55:00.890 - I think that 1517 00:55:01.670 --> 00:55:04.150 - it adds another aspect. I think most people 1518 00:55:04.150 --> 00:55:06.070 - will know people in their lives where they've 1519 00:55:06.070 --> 00:55:08.469 - got children or not who are younger than 1520 00:55:08.469 --> 00:55:10.329 - them and who for whom this climate 1521 00:55:10.954 --> 00:55:12.494 - emergency is going to be, 1522 00:55:13.675 --> 00:55:15.434 - more a part of their lives as they 1523 00:55:15.434 --> 00:55:16.954 - as they grow older. And if we love 1524 00:55:16.954 --> 00:55:18.954 - and care for those people, then that it 1525 00:55:18.954 --> 00:55:20.335 - adds to our own 1526 00:55:23.289 --> 00:55:26.170 - feelings about it, really. And and and it 1527 00:55:26.170 --> 00:55:26.829 - it seems 1528 00:55:27.929 --> 00:55:30.170 - it it seems really strange to me that 1529 00:55:30.170 --> 00:55:32.489 - there would be people who are being so 1530 00:55:32.489 --> 00:55:34.889 - incredibly selfish about their lives that they would 1531 00:55:34.889 --> 00:55:35.885 - just forget 1532 00:55:36.344 --> 00:55:38.344 - that and do all of the things anyway 1533 00:55:38.344 --> 00:55:39.965 - that they were going to do because 1534 00:55:40.265 --> 00:55:42.265 - they only live once and it's their life 1535 00:55:42.265 --> 00:55:44.664 - and the next generation can sort it. It 1536 00:55:44.664 --> 00:55:46.525 - seems an odd way of doing it. And 1537 00:55:46.585 --> 00:55:47.885 - and I think it's really 1538 00:55:48.469 --> 00:55:50.949 - lovely that you've made a game here, the 1539 00:55:50.949 --> 00:55:54.569 - music associated with it, which enables parents 1540 00:55:55.190 --> 00:55:56.329 - in a world of, 1541 00:55:57.269 --> 00:56:00.315 - you know, fast paced social media and 1542 00:56:01.994 --> 00:56:02.494 - Netflix 1543 00:56:02.954 --> 00:56:05.434 - edited documentaries where they change the scene every 1544 00:56:05.434 --> 00:56:07.454 - three seconds. To have that kind of 1545 00:56:07.755 --> 00:56:08.815 - slow paced 1546 00:56:09.675 --> 00:56:11.855 - Yeah. Experience to to actually 1547 00:56:12.410 --> 00:56:13.930 - take time out and think about it is 1548 00:56:13.930 --> 00:56:15.450 - a is a really valuable thing for me 1549 00:56:15.450 --> 00:56:16.809 - as a parent. I'm sure it is for 1550 00:56:16.809 --> 00:56:17.869 - lots of other people. 1551 00:56:20.410 --> 00:56:20.730 - Mhmm. It it's 1552 00:56:22.809 --> 00:56:24.730 - in the game, there's there's a moment which 1553 00:56:24.730 --> 00:56:27.255 - is kind of you you've you've explored the 1554 00:56:27.255 --> 00:56:28.474 - the shock, the, 1555 00:56:29.414 --> 00:56:31.594 - well, the emotion that you had when your 1556 00:56:32.614 --> 00:56:35.114 - child said what they said. Yes. 1557 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.639 - Was that the moment where it kind of 1558 00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.119 - hit home or you already be with with 1559 00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.279 - their kind of experience of it before then? 1560 00:56:45.279 --> 00:56:47.039 - Did you know that they were thinking about 1561 00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:47.539 - it? 1562 00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:51.940 - Not really. I just knew in that week 1563 00:56:52.144 --> 00:56:54.224 - that they were discussing the climate at school. 1564 00:56:54.224 --> 00:56:56.085 - And so I think we'd had some conversations 1565 00:56:56.144 --> 00:56:57.925 - after school, which were a bit like, 1566 00:56:58.625 --> 00:56:59.444 - just really 1567 00:56:59.905 --> 00:57:02.304 - shocked, you know? Like, they were just sort 1568 00:57:02.304 --> 00:57:04.545 - of, yeah, just talking about it like, oh 1569 00:57:04.545 --> 00:57:06.590 - my, wow. This is this is real and 1570 00:57:06.590 --> 00:57:08.130 - it's happening and it's terrible. 1571 00:57:08.750 --> 00:57:10.269 - And so it was just, yeah, it was 1572 00:57:10.269 --> 00:57:12.130 - just so sad to have to kind of 1573 00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:13.949 - just talk about it all at once and 1574 00:57:13.949 --> 00:57:17.489 - be like, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, it's quite 1575 00:57:18.025 --> 00:57:18.664 - bad, but, 1576 00:57:19.545 --> 00:57:20.664 - we try to think about it like this. 1577 00:57:20.664 --> 00:57:21.945 - I think I felt a bit on the 1578 00:57:21.945 --> 00:57:23.405 - back foot in a way because I didn't, 1579 00:57:23.465 --> 00:57:24.664 - it's not like you get a heads up, 1580 00:57:24.664 --> 00:57:26.664 - you know, from school. Because you do sometimes 1581 00:57:26.664 --> 00:57:28.184 - from schools, don't you? Sometimes you get letters 1582 00:57:28.184 --> 00:57:29.625 - saying, oh, by the way, we're gonna be 1583 00:57:29.625 --> 00:57:30.769 - talking about this. This. 1584 00:57:31.309 --> 00:57:31.809 - Oh 1585 00:57:32.349 --> 00:57:32.849 - no. 1586 00:57:36.190 --> 00:57:38.989 - Okay, okay, but you know we we don't 1587 00:57:38.989 --> 00:57:40.750 - get a heads up right, so this is 1588 00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:42.590 - just one of, this is just another subject 1589 00:57:42.590 --> 00:57:43.329 - and so 1590 00:57:43.789 --> 00:57:45.864 - yeah it was just, oh, it was just 1591 00:57:45.864 --> 00:57:48.184 - so sad. It is really, really sad. And, 1592 00:57:48.985 --> 00:57:50.585 - but I suppose that it makes you quite 1593 00:57:50.585 --> 00:57:52.744 - active in, like, well, it's not just me 1594 00:57:52.744 --> 00:57:53.785 - that I have to worry about. Like, I 1595 00:57:53.785 --> 00:57:55.625 - need to kind of, you know, create some 1596 00:57:55.625 --> 00:57:58.184 - sort of conversation or some kind of space 1597 00:57:58.184 --> 00:57:59.005 - where we can 1598 00:57:59.809 --> 00:58:01.510 - chat about this openly and, 1599 00:58:02.050 --> 00:58:02.710 - you know, 1600 00:58:03.329 --> 00:58:05.750 - try, try to sort of find 1601 00:58:06.130 --> 00:58:07.909 - aspects that we can hook onto 1602 00:58:08.210 --> 00:58:10.289 - because you can't just be like, yes, you 1603 00:58:10.289 --> 00:58:12.369 - should feel despair. It's terrible. It is. You 1604 00:58:12.369 --> 00:58:14.309 - know, you need to, you need to find 1605 00:58:14.824 --> 00:58:15.784 - a balance and, 1606 00:58:17.384 --> 00:58:19.164 - yeah, a way to kind of move forward. 1607 00:58:19.464 --> 00:58:21.625 - So the the game has been it it's 1608 00:58:21.625 --> 00:58:23.704 - online now, so people can play online, but 1609 00:58:23.704 --> 00:58:26.025 - the it's it's first kind of outing was 1610 00:58:26.025 --> 00:58:27.085 - at an event. 1611 00:58:27.464 --> 00:58:28.664 - So you were Yeah. 1612 00:58:28.984 --> 00:58:30.364 - Were you there at the event? 1613 00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:33.039 - I was. Yes. So it was, it was 1614 00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:34.420 - a kind of evening performance, 1615 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:37.039 - as part of a conference that was going 1616 00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:37.859 - on in Huddersfield 1617 00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:39.940 - called the Amplification Project, 1618 00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:42.559 - which was a fantastic conference. I can highly 1619 00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:43.059 - recommend. 1620 00:58:43.454 --> 00:58:43.954 - And 1621 00:58:44.414 --> 00:58:46.255 - so, yeah, we were all the musicians were 1622 00:58:46.255 --> 00:58:47.454 - there in the evening. And so I kind 1623 00:58:47.454 --> 00:58:49.454 - of got to see the conference people, the 1624 00:58:49.454 --> 00:58:51.375 - delegates, and other guests who would come to 1625 00:58:51.375 --> 00:58:52.114 - see the show, 1626 00:58:52.735 --> 00:58:54.255 - go in and play the game, which was 1627 00:58:54.255 --> 00:58:54.755 - lovely. 1628 00:58:55.375 --> 00:58:56.515 - I had a couple of, 1629 00:58:57.170 --> 00:58:59.170 - well, I had, like, a former and present 1630 00:58:59.170 --> 00:59:01.250 - student who came to play as well, which 1631 00:59:01.250 --> 00:59:02.769 - was very nice because they're from the video 1632 00:59:02.769 --> 00:59:04.930 - game audio world. So I was really keen 1633 00:59:04.930 --> 00:59:06.070 - to sort of see how they, 1634 00:59:06.610 --> 00:59:07.110 - responded. 1635 00:59:07.730 --> 00:59:09.250 - And, yeah, and I got to chat to 1636 00:59:09.250 --> 00:59:10.150 - people about 1637 00:59:10.454 --> 00:59:11.894 - how they how they found it at the 1638 00:59:11.894 --> 00:59:14.055 - end. It was really nice. Yeah. Because that 1639 00:59:14.135 --> 00:59:16.055 - that's what I was interested in really was 1640 00:59:16.055 --> 00:59:17.894 - that sort of, what what I wanted to 1641 00:59:17.894 --> 00:59:19.974 - ask about was that, you know, what were 1642 00:59:19.974 --> 00:59:22.535 - those conversations like when people were had played 1643 00:59:22.535 --> 00:59:23.114 - the game? 1644 00:59:23.575 --> 00:59:24.795 - Did people sort of 1645 00:59:25.289 --> 00:59:28.010 - explore their feelings with climate science with you, 1646 00:59:28.010 --> 00:59:29.449 - or were they more saying that was just 1647 00:59:29.449 --> 00:59:30.429 - so bloody lovely? 1648 00:59:31.929 --> 00:59:33.369 - It was it was a mixture. It was 1649 00:59:33.369 --> 00:59:34.969 - a really nice mixture. So, yeah, a couple 1650 00:59:34.969 --> 00:59:35.630 - of people 1651 00:59:36.250 --> 00:59:37.690 - did just kind of, you know, stop and 1652 00:59:37.690 --> 00:59:39.545 - have a chat about how they were feeling 1653 00:59:39.545 --> 00:59:42.025 - about it. There was one lady who was 1654 00:59:42.025 --> 00:59:44.045 - in tears and she gave me a hug 1655 00:59:44.105 --> 00:59:45.484 - and, and that was because 1656 00:59:45.784 --> 00:59:48.184 - for her family, it was a very, a 1657 00:59:48.184 --> 00:59:48.924 - very present, 1658 00:59:49.625 --> 00:59:51.224 - thing, a very present topic. They made lots 1659 00:59:51.224 --> 00:59:53.625 - of choices about not flying, for instance. And 1660 00:59:53.625 --> 00:59:54.125 - so 1661 00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:56.639 - I I just really felt that it was 1662 00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:58.639 - just very it was a very big subject 1663 00:59:58.639 --> 00:59:59.760 - for her personally. And, 1664 01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:02.159 - but it was really nice as well. She 1665 01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:03.859 - was she was lovely. And then 1666 01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:04.980 - one of my, 1667 01:00:05.359 --> 01:00:06.099 - ex students 1668 01:00:06.815 --> 01:00:08.015 - would have just had a big smile on 1669 01:00:08.015 --> 01:00:10.095 - his face and just said, that was, oh, 1670 01:00:10.095 --> 01:00:11.235 - it was just so heartfelt. 1671 01:00:12.414 --> 01:00:14.175 - And I was like, that is really nice 1672 01:00:14.175 --> 01:00:16.414 - feedback because that's what I was going for. 1673 01:00:16.414 --> 01:00:16.914 - Yeah. 1674 01:00:17.615 --> 01:00:19.650 - It was literally, I think one of my 1675 01:00:19.650 --> 01:00:21.409 - intentions of making the music was I just 1676 01:00:21.409 --> 01:00:22.309 - want this to feel 1677 01:00:22.929 --> 01:00:25.349 - really, really heartfelt, really open and, 1678 01:00:27.089 --> 01:00:27.909 - yeah, just, 1679 01:00:28.289 --> 01:00:30.929 - just nice. Mhmm. Just lovely. Even though it's 1680 01:00:30.929 --> 01:00:33.375 - difficult. Yeah. So that's a good that that's 1681 01:00:33.375 --> 01:00:35.954 - a thought. Right. So when when you're composing, 1682 01:00:36.815 --> 01:00:37.375 - is it 1683 01:00:37.934 --> 01:00:41.055 - it it is that thought thought process makes 1684 01:00:41.055 --> 01:00:43.535 - you go, okay. I'm gonna feel it here 1685 01:00:43.535 --> 01:00:45.375 - rather than gonna think about what I'm playing. 1686 01:00:45.375 --> 01:00:48.320 - I'm gonna feel it. Yeah. It absolutely is. 1687 01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:50.079 - And I think it's yeah. And I've only 1688 01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:52.320 - sort of come to know that, I suppose, 1689 01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:53.059 - in the last, 1690 01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:55.140 - I don't know, five or so years. 1691 01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:56.880 - I didn't I didn't sort of have that 1692 01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:59.140 - awareness when I was composing in my twenties. 1693 01:01:00.625 --> 01:01:02.065 - I definitely thought about it more in my 1694 01:01:02.065 --> 01:01:03.984 - head. And, but now recently I do, I, 1695 01:01:03.984 --> 01:01:05.824 - I will literally just sit like, how do 1696 01:01:05.824 --> 01:01:08.464 - I actually want to feel? Like, and I 1697 01:01:08.464 --> 01:01:10.404 - just keep noodling and 1698 01:01:10.704 --> 01:01:13.130 - improvising until I, until I hit that kind 1699 01:01:13.130 --> 01:01:14.250 - of spot. And I've done it a number 1700 01:01:14.250 --> 01:01:15.390 - of times and it really, 1701 01:01:15.849 --> 01:01:18.329 - really actually works. It's quite cool. 1702 01:01:19.050 --> 01:01:21.530 - Yeah. No. It's awesome. Just a specific word, 1703 01:01:21.530 --> 01:01:23.390 - a specific feeling, and then 1704 01:01:23.690 --> 01:01:25.309 - just really go for it 1705 01:01:25.655 --> 01:01:27.894 - with everything. And then I, yeah, I tend 1706 01:01:27.894 --> 01:01:29.734 - to find something that's just like, oh, yeah. 1707 01:01:29.734 --> 01:01:30.795 - Good. Yeah. 1708 01:01:31.175 --> 01:01:33.494 - That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I hope is 1709 01:01:33.494 --> 01:01:35.815 - there a particular piece of music that's in 1710 01:01:35.815 --> 01:01:37.994 - the in the game that you feel, 1711 01:01:39.630 --> 01:01:40.130 - particularly 1712 01:01:40.750 --> 01:01:41.650 - pleased with? 1713 01:01:42.589 --> 01:01:45.469 - Yes. There is. My favorite little bit is 1714 01:01:45.469 --> 01:01:47.489 - called disco friend theme. 1715 01:01:48.109 --> 01:01:49.329 - And that is when 1716 01:01:49.630 --> 01:01:50.929 - we all find ourselves 1717 01:01:51.644 --> 01:01:53.425 - in a party situation. 1718 01:01:54.125 --> 01:01:55.184 - And and, 1719 01:01:55.644 --> 01:01:57.405 - yeah, I just made this music that I 1720 01:01:57.405 --> 01:01:59.005 - I really like it so much. 1721 01:01:59.485 --> 01:02:01.804 - It kind of like, to me, it definitely 1722 01:02:01.804 --> 01:02:03.244 - reminds me a bit of Brian Eno. Like, 1723 01:02:03.244 --> 01:02:05.699 - it's got that kind of slightly underwater, 1724 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.940 - you know, that kind of scene from Trainspotting 1725 01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:10.800 - esque. I mean, I've really lent on the 1726 01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:11.300 - weaver. 1727 01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:16.640 - But I really like it a lot. And 1728 01:02:16.640 --> 01:02:18.239 - then I kind of put in this slightly 1729 01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:18.739 - wonky, 1730 01:02:19.295 --> 01:02:21.535 - very long kind of melody over the top. 1731 01:02:21.535 --> 01:02:22.655 - And that was one of the ones that 1732 01:02:22.655 --> 01:02:24.494 - I reworked and I was so pleased with 1733 01:02:24.494 --> 01:02:26.655 - because it kind of has this little twinkly 1734 01:02:26.655 --> 01:02:28.114 - aspect that's got kind of, 1735 01:02:28.974 --> 01:02:30.094 - a slight slight, 1736 01:02:30.655 --> 01:02:33.220 - odd wobble. And then this kind of long 1737 01:02:33.220 --> 01:02:34.740 - melody that to me sounds a bit like 1738 01:02:34.740 --> 01:02:35.880 - horns in the distance, 1739 01:02:36.579 --> 01:02:37.960 - kind of, something 1740 01:02:38.500 --> 01:02:40.579 - I don't know. Just some something quite interesting 1741 01:02:40.579 --> 01:02:42.360 - and unexpected for my own ears. 1742 01:02:56.015 --> 01:02:57.934 - You may have picked up that Naomi and 1743 01:02:57.934 --> 01:03:00.420 - I do know each other already. You'll have 1744 01:03:00.420 --> 01:03:02.420 - to play the game to find out how 1745 01:03:02.420 --> 01:03:03.079 - we met. 1746 01:03:16.324 --> 01:03:17.844 - Do you have you got a sense of 1747 01:03:17.844 --> 01:03:19.844 - this taking you to a different place with 1748 01:03:19.844 --> 01:03:22.425 - with your feelings on the climate? Oh, 1749 01:03:23.525 --> 01:03:24.984 - do you know it's it's 1750 01:03:26.085 --> 01:03:28.585 - I guess the main takeaway for me 1751 01:03:29.610 --> 01:03:33.230 - was that, our communities are really important, and 1752 01:03:33.930 --> 01:03:36.090 - and why not talk to your friends about 1753 01:03:36.090 --> 01:03:38.570 - stuff like this? Because every conversation that I 1754 01:03:38.570 --> 01:03:39.070 - had 1755 01:03:39.369 --> 01:03:39.869 - was 1756 01:03:40.570 --> 01:03:42.090 - you know, it'll just probably stay with me 1757 01:03:42.090 --> 01:03:44.329 - forever, like, because I sort of dedicated this, 1758 01:03:44.329 --> 01:03:45.855 - like, you know, I interviewed you all for 1759 01:03:45.855 --> 01:03:46.994 - about half an hour. 1760 01:03:47.454 --> 01:03:49.155 - And those conversations were 1761 01:03:49.614 --> 01:03:50.755 - really, really nice 1762 01:03:51.215 --> 01:03:51.715 - and 1763 01:03:52.255 --> 01:03:53.934 - felt really important to me, and I sort 1764 01:03:53.934 --> 01:03:55.875 - of carried them with me. And 1765 01:03:56.335 --> 01:03:57.235 - so I think 1766 01:03:57.775 --> 01:03:59.670 - however it's gonna all pan out, 1767 01:04:00.069 --> 01:04:01.349 - and I hope it pans out in a 1768 01:04:01.349 --> 01:04:02.630 - in a good way, I hope we kind 1769 01:04:02.630 --> 01:04:03.849 - of continue to make 1770 01:04:04.630 --> 01:04:07.030 - strides towards the places we need to go 1771 01:04:07.030 --> 01:04:09.829 - to actually not just keep going the wrong 1772 01:04:09.829 --> 01:04:10.329 - way. 1773 01:04:11.109 --> 01:04:12.869 - I I'll just I'll just take that with 1774 01:04:12.869 --> 01:04:15.034 - me that, you know, really hard things can 1775 01:04:15.034 --> 01:04:16.494 - be made better by 1776 01:04:16.875 --> 01:04:20.315 - talking to friends directly about them. And, obviously, 1777 01:04:20.315 --> 01:04:21.054 - it's a bit 1778 01:04:21.355 --> 01:04:23.674 - left field to say, hey. How are you 1779 01:04:23.674 --> 01:04:25.054 - feeling about this? 1780 01:04:25.700 --> 01:04:27.619 - Can we talk about that for half an 1781 01:04:27.619 --> 01:04:30.420 - hour? But maybe we will. You know, maybe 1782 01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:31.780 - maybe people that play the game will be 1783 01:04:31.780 --> 01:04:34.019 - like, oh, okay. I can. I I've been 1784 01:04:34.019 --> 01:04:35.160 - sending it to people, 1785 01:04:35.619 --> 01:04:36.119 - and, 1786 01:04:37.744 --> 01:04:40.005 - yeah, the the the reaction is 1787 01:04:40.625 --> 01:04:41.125 - uniformly 1788 01:04:41.585 --> 01:04:44.065 - delight. I think that's what it is. I 1789 01:04:44.144 --> 01:04:46.224 - there have been tears. I've see I've sat 1790 01:04:46.224 --> 01:04:47.585 - with people while they played it, and they 1791 01:04:47.585 --> 01:04:49.525 - have cried while they played it, which is 1792 01:04:49.664 --> 01:04:52.005 - I think I think it's That's amazing. 1793 01:04:52.960 --> 01:04:55.940 - I think it's it's it's it's in part 1794 01:04:56.960 --> 01:04:57.860 - of your story, 1795 01:04:58.160 --> 01:05:00.800 - and it's in part their own reaction to 1796 01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:01.539 - their own 1797 01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:03.840 - feelings about the climate framework, which is a 1798 01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:05.920 - lovely thing. Oh, that's so nice. Thank you. 1799 01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:07.539 - Thank you, Chase. Yeah. What 1800 01:05:07.934 --> 01:05:09.855 - what are you gonna do this sort of 1801 01:05:09.855 --> 01:05:11.215 - thing again? This is the first time you've 1802 01:05:11.215 --> 01:05:13.934 - made a game. I've I've dabbled in making 1803 01:05:13.934 --> 01:05:15.375 - games before. I had to do one for 1804 01:05:15.375 --> 01:05:17.055 - my projects when I was doing my masters, 1805 01:05:17.055 --> 01:05:18.494 - and that was in a different game kind 1806 01:05:18.574 --> 01:05:20.494 - kinda game engine. I would love to do 1807 01:05:20.494 --> 01:05:23.420 - this again, Andrew, and I really I really 1808 01:05:23.420 --> 01:05:24.880 - hope that somebody asks me, 1809 01:05:25.739 --> 01:05:27.819 - you know, employs me to to make another 1810 01:05:27.819 --> 01:05:29.199 - little Bitsy game narrative. 1811 01:05:29.739 --> 01:05:31.980 - Honestly, it is so much fun, and I 1812 01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:32.639 - could just 1813 01:05:33.179 --> 01:05:35.359 - if anyone's, like, wanting to dabble in 1814 01:05:35.900 --> 01:05:37.440 - making short form games, 1815 01:05:38.414 --> 01:05:40.094 - you just go to bitsy.org, 1816 01:05:40.094 --> 01:05:42.094 - have a little go. It is amazing. There 1817 01:05:42.094 --> 01:05:43.135 - are a lot there are lots of little, 1818 01:05:43.454 --> 01:05:45.934 - engines you can start dabbling with. But if 1819 01:05:45.934 --> 01:05:47.954 - you like a kind of creativity 1820 01:05:48.335 --> 01:05:48.835 - systems, 1821 01:05:50.250 --> 01:05:50.750 - whimsy, 1822 01:05:51.449 --> 01:05:52.989 - you will have a really good time 1823 01:05:53.289 --> 01:05:55.050 - doing it. So, yeah, I would I would 1824 01:05:55.050 --> 01:05:55.690 - love to, 1825 01:05:56.409 --> 01:05:57.390 - do this again. 1826 01:05:58.090 --> 01:05:59.929 - I can't So if people would want to 1827 01:05:59.929 --> 01:06:01.449 - commission you to do that, how would they 1828 01:06:01.449 --> 01:06:03.530 - find you? They would they could go to 1829 01:06:03.530 --> 01:06:06.445 - my website, which is Naomi Composers 1830 01:06:07.224 --> 01:06:07.965 - dot com. 1831 01:06:08.824 --> 01:06:09.324 - And, 1832 01:06:10.025 --> 01:06:12.344 - and on that website, there is a, it's 1833 01:06:12.344 --> 01:06:14.445 - actually an interactive business card 1834 01:06:14.744 --> 01:06:16.824 - that they can play. So I have made 1835 01:06:16.985 --> 01:06:18.425 - I actually have have made another little another 1836 01:06:18.425 --> 01:06:19.889 - little game there. I I did I did 1837 01:06:19.889 --> 01:06:21.170 - have a lot of help, but it's, it's 1838 01:06:21.170 --> 01:06:22.309 - it's a pretty cool 1839 01:06:22.609 --> 01:06:23.909 - pretty cool game, aren't you? 1840 01:06:24.369 --> 01:06:25.969 - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll have a go 1841 01:06:25.969 --> 01:06:27.089 - at that. I'll have a go at that. 1842 01:06:27.089 --> 01:06:29.409 - And, thank you so much for talking to 1843 01:06:29.409 --> 01:06:31.650 - me and also for making this beautiful game, 1844 01:06:31.650 --> 01:06:33.589 - which is called It's called Save Progress. 1845 01:06:33.945 --> 01:06:35.465 - I don't know why I called it that. 1846 01:06:35.465 --> 01:06:37.144 - It's quite fun, though, isn't it? Because when 1847 01:06:37.144 --> 01:06:38.585 - you start playing it, you think you need 1848 01:06:38.585 --> 01:06:40.398 - to save the progress in your game. I 1849 01:06:40.398 --> 01:06:41.864 - know. I know. And I did get feedback 1850 01:06:41.864 --> 01:06:42.425 - around that, 1851 01:06:43.065 --> 01:06:43.565 - and 1852 01:06:44.105 --> 01:06:45.545 - and then I was like, it's a bit 1853 01:06:45.545 --> 01:06:46.619 - too late to change it because it's gone 1854 01:06:46.619 --> 01:06:48.539 - in the program. So it's it's called safe 1855 01:06:48.539 --> 01:06:50.460 - progress. You can just interpret that however you 1856 01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:51.199 - like, but, 1857 01:06:51.819 --> 01:06:54.139 - yes, you don't actually need to, save your 1858 01:06:54.139 --> 01:06:54.639 - progress 1859 01:06:55.019 --> 01:06:57.019 - unless you're wanting it Okay. At the end. 1860 01:06:57.019 --> 01:06:59.019 - Okay. I'm not gonna say how I interpret 1861 01:06:59.019 --> 01:07:00.539 - it. But what I will say is people 1862 01:07:00.539 --> 01:07:02.385 - should play the game. Okay. And when it 1863 01:07:02.385 --> 01:07:04.625 - says safe progress, that's the name. You don't 1864 01:07:04.625 --> 01:07:07.344 - need to do anything. Just carry on clicking 1865 01:07:07.344 --> 01:07:07.844 - through. 1866 01:07:08.224 --> 01:07:10.324 - And, yeah, thank you so much. 1867 01:07:11.025 --> 01:07:13.265 - You can play the game now by finding 1868 01:07:13.265 --> 01:07:14.909 - the link on physicsworld.com, 1869 01:07:14.909 --> 01:07:16.670 - or indeed play the other game, which is 1870 01:07:16.670 --> 01:07:17.889 - Nomi's interactive 1871 01:07:18.429 --> 01:07:20.829 - business card. And if you're a fan of 1872 01:07:20.829 --> 01:07:24.109 - the old Atari games, well, I'll leave it 1873 01:07:24.109 --> 01:07:25.869 - at that. I'd like to thank Nomi and 1874 01:07:25.869 --> 01:07:27.644 - Tom for talking to me for this episode 1875 01:07:27.644 --> 01:07:29.404 - of the Physics World Stories podcast. We'll be 1876 01:07:29.404 --> 01:07:31.404 - back next month with something else from this 1877 01:07:31.404 --> 01:07:33.804 - wonderful world of physics, and thank you very 1878 01:07:33.804 --> 01:07:34.784 - much for listening.