1
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,480
Hello, and welcome to the physics world stories

2
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,400
podcast. I'm Andrew Glaston. And on physicsworld.com,

3
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,315
you'll be able to find the quantum briefing.

4
00:00:13,375 --> 00:00:14,894
As we will do in this episode of

5
00:00:14,894 --> 00:00:15,554
the podcast,

6
00:00:15,855 --> 00:00:18,435
it explores some of the most amazing stories

7
00:00:18,495 --> 00:00:21,214
from the past, present, and future of quantum

8
00:00:21,214 --> 00:00:21,714
mechanics,

9
00:00:22,975 --> 00:00:25,774
including the link between quantum physics and the

10
00:00:25,774 --> 00:00:29,670
Cheshire cat and possibility that, and stay tuned

11
00:00:29,670 --> 00:00:32,649
for this, we might be able to influence

12
00:00:32,789 --> 00:00:33,530
the past.

13
00:00:34,950 --> 00:00:36,789
That's all to come, but on the front

14
00:00:36,789 --> 00:00:39,909
cover of the physics world quantum briefing was

15
00:00:39,909 --> 00:00:42,310
a wonderful piece of art inspired by quantum

16
00:00:42,310 --> 00:00:44,844
mechanics that I wanted to know more about,

17
00:00:44,844 --> 00:00:47,504
and there's quite a story behind its creation.

18
00:00:47,884 --> 00:00:50,545
So here, to start today's podcast,

19
00:00:50,924 --> 00:00:52,784
is the person behind it.

20
00:00:53,564 --> 00:00:56,445
My name's Felicity Inkpen. I'm an artist. I

21
00:00:56,445 --> 00:00:57,504
used to be a scientist.

22
00:00:57,969 --> 00:00:59,189
Academia was

23
00:00:59,810 --> 00:01:02,289
not for me, and I think that's the

24
00:01:02,289 --> 00:01:03,829
experience of a lot of scientists.

25
00:01:05,010 --> 00:01:07,090
I was heartbroken about it because I I

26
00:01:07,090 --> 00:01:10,129
love science, and I built my world around

27
00:01:10,129 --> 00:01:12,034
it. I built my life around it. But

28
00:01:12,034 --> 00:01:13,954
I guess I felt quite lucky in that

29
00:01:13,954 --> 00:01:15,554
I had always always had this,

30
00:01:16,114 --> 00:01:18,034
twin passion of the art. And I've been

31
00:01:18,034 --> 00:01:19,715
making art my entire life since I was

32
00:01:19,715 --> 00:01:21,734
a tiny little girl. So

33
00:01:22,594 --> 00:01:25,314
when I finally made the heartbreaking decision to

34
00:01:25,314 --> 00:01:25,954
leave academia,

35
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,560
I just wanted to paint. And my plan

36
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,959
was I'll just paint and see how far

37
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,799
I can go. And that was a few

38
00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:36,560
years ago. And that was just over three

39
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,799
years ago. And I've been making a lot

40
00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:40,959
of science inspired art because it turns out

41
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,479
when you leave academia, it doesn't mean you

42
00:01:42,479 --> 00:01:43,424
stop loving science.

43
00:01:45,984 --> 00:01:46,805
So the

44
00:01:47,105 --> 00:01:49,825
is everything you do science inspired? No. No.

45
00:01:49,825 --> 00:01:50,625
Not at all.

46
00:01:52,064 --> 00:01:54,965
You know, as an artist, you're trying to

47
00:01:55,905 --> 00:01:56,385
explore

48
00:01:57,025 --> 00:01:58,530
you know, when I, when I first quit

49
00:01:58,769 --> 00:02:00,209
science to, to do the art, I didn't

50
00:02:00,209 --> 00:02:01,729
know what kind of artist I wanted to

51
00:02:01,729 --> 00:02:04,209
be. There's very many different ways in which

52
00:02:04,209 --> 00:02:05,829
to be an artist. And

53
00:02:06,609 --> 00:02:08,689
I had a period of play, which I

54
00:02:08,689 --> 00:02:11,569
highly recommend. Like people should just take a

55
00:02:11,569 --> 00:02:13,455
little bit of time out and play and

56
00:02:13,455 --> 00:02:15,614
figure out what makes them happy. Really enjoyed

57
00:02:15,614 --> 00:02:16,114
that.

58
00:02:16,735 --> 00:02:17,235
And

59
00:02:18,974 --> 00:02:21,694
I have been making, you know, various different

60
00:02:21,694 --> 00:02:23,534
works, but I kept on finding that I

61
00:02:23,534 --> 00:02:25,314
kept on coming back to the science.

62
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,640
I had one piece. So the first painting

63
00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:30,300
that I painted after I quit, the lab

64
00:02:30,439 --> 00:02:32,920
was a painting called synesthesia counting by numbers.

65
00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:34,120
Would you like me to chat about that

66
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,460
a little bit? And Yes, please. Yes.

67
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:37,640
So,

68
00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:39,980
I have number color synesthesia.

69
00:02:40,335 --> 00:02:42,175
What that means is I see all numbers

70
00:02:42,175 --> 00:02:44,495
as colors. I didn't know that other people

71
00:02:44,495 --> 00:02:46,194
didn't see numbers as colors.

72
00:02:46,814 --> 00:02:47,635
It was only

73
00:02:47,935 --> 00:02:50,094
a conversation with colleagues that led me to

74
00:02:50,094 --> 00:02:52,094
discover this when we were just talking about

75
00:02:52,094 --> 00:02:53,775
what happens in your head when you multiply

76
00:02:53,775 --> 00:02:56,159
two numbers together. And one person said, oh,

77
00:02:56,159 --> 00:02:56,900
I see,

78
00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,680
a square getting larger. And somebody else saw

79
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,620
it said, I saw a line getting longer.

80
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,520
And I was like, what are you talking

81
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,219
about? Don't you just see the colors?

82
00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,080
And they went, oh, you're the weird one

83
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:08,900
in this conversation.

84
00:03:10,905 --> 00:03:11,405
So,

85
00:03:12,185 --> 00:03:14,985
when I sat down in my art studio

86
00:03:14,985 --> 00:03:17,145
to paint my first kind of painting of,

87
00:03:17,145 --> 00:03:19,164
like, I am a full time artist now,

88
00:03:19,305 --> 00:03:21,705
it was just a painting of numbers. So

89
00:03:21,705 --> 00:03:24,419
I painted the numbers, one to a 24

90
00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:26,740
because that's 32 squared. And, you know, 32

91
00:03:26,740 --> 00:03:28,580
is beautiful because it's green and it's pink

92
00:03:28,580 --> 00:03:29,699
and it's yellow and it's got a little

93
00:03:29,699 --> 00:03:31,300
bit of blue in it because it's two

94
00:03:31,300 --> 00:03:32,900
to the power of five as well as

95
00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:35,379
being four times eight and the digits three

96
00:03:35,379 --> 00:03:36,039
and two.

97
00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:37,000
And

98
00:03:37,594 --> 00:03:38,814
that painting definitely,

99
00:03:39,594 --> 00:03:41,454
set me on a particular trajectory

100
00:03:42,474 --> 00:03:42,974
because

101
00:03:43,435 --> 00:03:46,254
it was such an important conduit for conversations.

102
00:03:46,715 --> 00:03:49,114
And that was definitely something in terms of

103
00:03:49,114 --> 00:03:51,674
finding my place as a artist inspired by

104
00:03:51,674 --> 00:03:53,969
science, because I was I I realized this

105
00:03:53,969 --> 00:03:56,050
is what art is for. I can have

106
00:03:56,050 --> 00:03:56,550
conversations

107
00:03:57,169 --> 00:03:58,710
because of this painting existing

108
00:03:59,250 --> 00:04:00,710
that I could never have before.

109
00:04:01,169 --> 00:04:03,889
And they might be kept conversations with somebody

110
00:04:03,889 --> 00:04:05,490
who wants into my studio. It might be

111
00:04:05,490 --> 00:04:08,710
conversations with a neuroscientist who specializes in synesthesia.

112
00:04:10,665 --> 00:04:12,284
All these different ways

113
00:04:13,305 --> 00:04:14,125
of generating

114
00:04:14,504 --> 00:04:15,004
questions

115
00:04:16,504 --> 00:04:18,365
through communicating something visually.

116
00:04:19,305 --> 00:04:21,084
And that feels like

117
00:04:21,629 --> 00:04:23,810
what I'm supposed to be doing right now

118
00:04:23,949 --> 00:04:26,270
is taking the strangest ideas and all of

119
00:04:26,270 --> 00:04:28,670
the kind of benefit and the knowledge and

120
00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:30,030
the love that I have of of my

121
00:04:30,030 --> 00:04:31,090
career in science

122
00:04:31,629 --> 00:04:35,150
and creating it or channeling it into visual

123
00:04:35,150 --> 00:04:35,650
images

124
00:04:37,164 --> 00:04:38,064
that that communicate

125
00:04:39,084 --> 00:04:41,964
those strange ideas and allow people who wouldn't

126
00:04:41,964 --> 00:04:45,004
necessarily feel that science was something accessible to

127
00:04:45,004 --> 00:04:46,764
them to say, oh, I know exactly what

128
00:04:46,764 --> 00:04:49,084
you mean. Because now I've seen that image,

129
00:04:49,084 --> 00:04:50,865
I can describe something that I

130
00:04:51,379 --> 00:04:53,319
experienced or something that I've thought

131
00:04:53,699 --> 00:04:54,919
or something that,

132
00:04:56,019 --> 00:04:58,360
I don't know, I've I've experimented with.

133
00:04:59,620 --> 00:05:02,360
So that painting was very, very key, and

134
00:05:03,459 --> 00:05:03,824
it's,

135
00:05:04,384 --> 00:05:06,465
you know, I loved painting. I loved being

136
00:05:06,625 --> 00:05:08,944
it didn't feel like it was mine. That's

137
00:05:08,944 --> 00:05:10,705
that's another really fun thing about being an

138
00:05:10,705 --> 00:05:13,504
artist. Sometimes you're painting something and you don't

139
00:05:13,504 --> 00:05:15,745
feel like, oh, I'm the creator. You feel

140
00:05:15,745 --> 00:05:17,365
like this painting already existed.

141
00:05:18,064 --> 00:05:19,125
Just the lucky

142
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,600
individual that it gets channeled through, who gets

143
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,040
to be the one to create it and

144
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,959
then talk about it later. And I definitely

145
00:05:25,959 --> 00:05:27,740
felt that about that particular painting.

146
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,720
So I it's central because you've mentioned that,

147
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,720
you know, strange ideas. And the reason we're

148
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,685
talking is because you've done the the front

149
00:05:35,685 --> 00:05:37,764
cover of the quantum briefing for physics world,

150
00:05:37,764 --> 00:05:39,125
which we will get to. But I just

151
00:05:39,125 --> 00:05:41,764
wanna, you know, to pick apart a couple

152
00:05:41,764 --> 00:05:42,564
of things there. Because you've

153
00:05:44,324 --> 00:05:46,485
when you had that initial conversation, then they

154
00:05:46,485 --> 00:05:48,344
were, you know, you're the strange one.

155
00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:49,850
It's a conversation.

156
00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:52,709
Presumably, through your art, you've met more people

157
00:05:52,709 --> 00:05:55,750
who have the same sort of experiences as

158
00:05:55,750 --> 00:05:58,490
you do. Absolutely. And I think,

159
00:05:59,029 --> 00:06:01,430
you know, one thing so I used to

160
00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:02,329
be a neuroscientist,

161
00:06:03,584 --> 00:06:04,084
and,

162
00:06:05,504 --> 00:06:06,884
found out about aphantasia,

163
00:06:07,345 --> 00:06:08,785
which is when people have a lack of

164
00:06:08,785 --> 00:06:09,685
a visual imagination.

165
00:06:10,384 --> 00:06:10,884
And,

166
00:06:12,785 --> 00:06:14,785
I I think if there's a spectrum, I'm

167
00:06:14,785 --> 00:06:16,785
probably more on the other end of it

168
00:06:16,785 --> 00:06:17,845
as, like, a hypofantasia

169
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:19,680
kind of person. I know that they were

170
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,720
doing research at Exeter University about a sort

171
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,060
of spectrum between aphantasia and hypofantasia.

172
00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,279
And that's an example of something where you

173
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:31,779
realize

174
00:06:32,495 --> 00:06:35,375
through talk through creating images and through talking

175
00:06:35,375 --> 00:06:37,854
about your process of creating images that not

176
00:06:37,854 --> 00:06:40,034
everybody has the same internal,

177
00:06:40,334 --> 00:06:41,474
you know, way of of,

178
00:06:42,334 --> 00:06:45,055
experiencing the world. The but we will take

179
00:06:45,055 --> 00:06:46,194
for granted our,

180
00:06:46,814 --> 00:06:49,529
perception. We will assume that everybody else has

181
00:06:49,529 --> 00:06:50,750
the exact same perception

182
00:06:51,689 --> 00:06:52,589
and that,

183
00:06:53,529 --> 00:06:55,449
you know, if you say imagine an apple,

184
00:06:55,449 --> 00:06:55,949
I

185
00:06:56,490 --> 00:06:58,009
see what I see, and I imagine that

186
00:06:58,009 --> 00:06:59,849
everybody else sees exactly the same thing that

187
00:06:59,849 --> 00:07:01,449
I see. And it's it's not the case

188
00:07:01,449 --> 00:07:02,029
at all.

189
00:07:03,664 --> 00:07:05,444
All of which is to say, like,

190
00:07:05,824 --> 00:07:08,245
I think it's really important to create

191
00:07:09,264 --> 00:07:10,324
things, paintings,

192
00:07:10,785 --> 00:07:11,604
mock sculptures,

193
00:07:12,144 --> 00:07:13,444
performances, whatever,

194
00:07:13,824 --> 00:07:15,745
that allow us to realize that we don't

195
00:07:15,745 --> 00:07:17,204
all have the same experience

196
00:07:17,529 --> 00:07:18,990
and to ask each other questions

197
00:07:19,290 --> 00:07:20,110
and to

198
00:07:21,370 --> 00:07:23,689
grow in empathy because then you're like, oh,

199
00:07:23,689 --> 00:07:25,069
I didn't, I didn't know

200
00:07:25,449 --> 00:07:25,949
that,

201
00:07:26,329 --> 00:07:28,169
that you experienced this world in this different

202
00:07:28,169 --> 00:07:29,529
way. And yeah. It's, oh my gosh. It's

203
00:07:29,529 --> 00:07:31,050
such a privilege because people will come to

204
00:07:31,050 --> 00:07:33,095
me and I'll talk about the synesthesia painting

205
00:07:33,095 --> 00:07:33,995
or other paintings,

206
00:07:34,535 --> 00:07:35,035
and

207
00:07:35,735 --> 00:07:37,814
they'll share things with me that they'll say,

208
00:07:37,814 --> 00:07:39,654
oh, I've I've never shared this with anybody,

209
00:07:39,654 --> 00:07:40,954
but this is how I,

210
00:07:41,254 --> 00:07:41,735
you know,

211
00:07:42,375 --> 00:07:43,975
I think in a monologue or I think

212
00:07:43,975 --> 00:07:45,514
in a dialogue or,

213
00:07:46,759 --> 00:07:49,100
I think in images that look like this.

214
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,879
And it's only because that piece of art

215
00:07:51,879 --> 00:07:54,600
has existed that they have felt able to

216
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:55,500
find the words.

217
00:07:55,959 --> 00:07:56,459
And

218
00:07:56,839 --> 00:07:58,634
and, you know, like, part of the fun

219
00:07:58,634 --> 00:08:00,555
of being an artist is having license to

220
00:08:00,555 --> 00:08:02,795
be the weirdo in the room, which means

221
00:08:02,795 --> 00:08:05,355
that other people feel very liberated to share

222
00:08:05,355 --> 00:08:07,995
their weirdoness with you, which again is, like,

223
00:08:07,995 --> 00:08:09,855
is a total joy. Right?

224
00:08:12,955 --> 00:08:13,439
And,

225
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:15,779
yeah, you you you can

226
00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:17,620
just lean into

227
00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:19,839
or, you know, what have you done this

228
00:08:19,839 --> 00:08:21,759
week whilst other people have been in the

229
00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:24,319
office? Well, and this week I've been messing

230
00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:26,959
around with ink and thinking about the sizes

231
00:08:26,959 --> 00:08:29,514
of molecules and how that changes how ink

232
00:08:29,514 --> 00:08:31,214
moves across a piece of paper

233
00:08:32,235 --> 00:08:33,834
and how I can make that into a

234
00:08:33,834 --> 00:08:35,754
piece of art that I like. You said

235
00:08:35,754 --> 00:08:38,394
32 is particular colors. Is it always those

236
00:08:38,394 --> 00:08:40,315
colors? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

237
00:08:41,595 --> 00:08:43,950
I mean, everybody who has number color synesthesia

238
00:08:44,009 --> 00:08:45,370
is gonna see something different. And it is

239
00:08:45,370 --> 00:08:47,049
funny because sometimes you come across other people

240
00:08:47,049 --> 00:08:49,129
with number color synesthesia, and they'll you get

241
00:08:49,129 --> 00:08:51,210
into arguments about, like, you know, I was

242
00:08:51,210 --> 00:08:53,450
saying, obviously, four is yellow. And they're like,

243
00:08:53,450 --> 00:08:55,309
what are you talking about? Four is green.

244
00:08:58,434 --> 00:08:59,735
So for me personally,

245
00:09:00,754 --> 00:09:03,075
prime numbers tend to be quite flat and

246
00:09:03,075 --> 00:09:03,815
quite earthy.

247
00:09:04,995 --> 00:09:07,235
And then a number that has lots of

248
00:09:07,235 --> 00:09:10,534
factors tends to be multicolored and very vibrant.

249
00:09:11,269 --> 00:09:11,769
So,

250
00:09:12,629 --> 00:09:15,769
24 would be a very colorful number.

251
00:09:16,309 --> 00:09:17,750
It's got all of the you know, the

252
00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:18,710
the colors of,

253
00:09:19,429 --> 00:09:21,190
it's got yellow and red and orange and

254
00:09:21,190 --> 00:09:23,990
green because it's it's three times eight, and

255
00:09:23,990 --> 00:09:26,309
it's four times six. So the factors of

256
00:09:26,309 --> 00:09:26,809
it

257
00:09:27,404 --> 00:09:27,884
create,

258
00:09:28,365 --> 00:09:29,584
the mixture of colors.

259
00:09:29,884 --> 00:09:31,264
Whereas the number 17

260
00:09:31,725 --> 00:09:33,745
is quite a boring mauve.

261
00:09:34,524 --> 00:09:35,024
And,

262
00:09:36,684 --> 00:09:39,325
but that's, that's my personal, you know, that's

263
00:09:39,325 --> 00:09:41,259
just for me. Yeah. But it is really

264
00:09:41,259 --> 00:09:44,080
interesting then thinking about how we conceptualize numbers

265
00:09:44,139 --> 00:09:45,740
because for me, it's always,

266
00:09:47,019 --> 00:09:48,540
being just like a joy to see the

267
00:09:48,540 --> 00:09:50,220
patterns and the way the numbers relate to

268
00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:51,920
one another. So, like,

269
00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:55,754
multiples of four are always going to have

270
00:09:55,754 --> 00:09:57,835
that bit of yellow. So they're always going

271
00:09:57,835 --> 00:10:00,495
to have that little callback to, don't forget

272
00:10:01,115 --> 00:10:02,735
there's a four in here somewhere.

273
00:10:03,434 --> 00:10:03,934
And,

274
00:10:04,794 --> 00:10:06,634
you know, that's it's a very useful and

275
00:10:06,634 --> 00:10:09,460
and beautiful way of of seeing numbers and

276
00:10:09,460 --> 00:10:10,680
then thinking about mathematics.

277
00:10:12,180 --> 00:10:14,340
And it is a fun thing to explore.

278
00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:16,519
I did a a the the second synesthesia

279
00:10:16,660 --> 00:10:18,420
painting I did was a painting of prime

280
00:10:18,420 --> 00:10:20,034
numbers, and I didn't know what it was

281
00:10:20,034 --> 00:10:21,235
going to look like. I sort of you

282
00:10:21,235 --> 00:10:23,154
know, I I knew what the prime numbers

283
00:10:23,154 --> 00:10:25,174
up to a certain amount looked like roughly

284
00:10:25,235 --> 00:10:26,134
in my head.

285
00:10:27,154 --> 00:10:28,434
But, you know, you get into the larger

286
00:10:28,434 --> 00:10:30,674
prime numbers. And and what came back is

287
00:10:30,674 --> 00:10:32,450
it was yeah, the colors of, like, the

288
00:10:32,450 --> 00:10:34,850
earth kept on coming up. And I was

289
00:10:34,850 --> 00:10:36,070
like, oh, that's interesting.

290
00:10:37,089 --> 00:10:39,009
They're all quite flat, but they're all quite

291
00:10:39,009 --> 00:10:39,509
earthy.

292
00:10:41,009 --> 00:10:42,309
So that was, yeah,

293
00:10:42,929 --> 00:10:44,070
a a joy to discover.

294
00:10:45,485 --> 00:10:47,485
It so it helps with the maths as

295
00:10:47,485 --> 00:10:49,425
well as sort of helping with the art.

296
00:10:49,485 --> 00:10:49,985
Absolutely.

297
00:10:51,805 --> 00:10:54,125
I was one of those nerdy kids in

298
00:10:54,125 --> 00:10:56,605
school that really loved maths. I couldn't get

299
00:10:56,605 --> 00:10:57,419
enough of maths.

300
00:10:58,779 --> 00:11:00,860
I wouldn't you know, I'm I'm definitely not

301
00:11:00,860 --> 00:11:03,100
particularly mathematically talented. I have a great many

302
00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:05,579
friends who are much more mathematically talented than

303
00:11:05,579 --> 00:11:06,879
I would ever be, but,

304
00:11:07,980 --> 00:11:09,899
but I definitely had a a a great

305
00:11:09,899 --> 00:11:12,185
deal of love for maths. And I I

306
00:11:12,185 --> 00:11:14,285
struggle to understand why other people

307
00:11:14,985 --> 00:11:16,365
in my class at school

308
00:11:17,065 --> 00:11:17,565
didn't

309
00:11:18,425 --> 00:11:20,105
see how beautiful it was to that, you

310
00:11:20,105 --> 00:11:21,865
know, they seemed to struggle with it maybe

311
00:11:21,865 --> 00:11:23,545
a bit more than I did. And then

312
00:11:23,545 --> 00:11:26,289
after realizing that not everybody else see sees

313
00:11:26,289 --> 00:11:28,370
colors, I was like, oh, well, maths would

314
00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:30,289
be really boring and really dull if it

315
00:11:30,289 --> 00:11:31,830
wasn't colorful. And I was like,

316
00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:33,669
oh, right. Okay.

317
00:11:34,610 --> 00:11:36,850
That is why, you know, not of all

318
00:11:36,850 --> 00:11:39,429
all of our experiences are the same. And,

319
00:11:41,235 --> 00:11:43,075
yeah, I wish I I I could exploit

320
00:11:43,075 --> 00:11:45,154
the synesthesia a bit more. I possibly should

321
00:11:45,154 --> 00:11:46,695
go back to,

322
00:11:47,875 --> 00:11:50,855
back to some of my undergraduate notes and

323
00:11:51,475 --> 00:11:53,154
and see if I can kind of, you

324
00:11:53,154 --> 00:11:54,774
know, exploit it to

325
00:11:55,669 --> 00:11:58,389
to finally get my head around, certain types

326
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:58,889
of,

327
00:12:01,190 --> 00:12:03,589
notation. Yeah. I mean, presumably, when you were

328
00:12:03,589 --> 00:12:06,089
learning maths as a as a young person,

329
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:08,569
that that that's when the colors came. Presumably.

330
00:12:08,789 --> 00:12:10,704
You'd learn. I I can't remember them not

331
00:12:10,704 --> 00:12:11,524
having colors.

332
00:12:12,225 --> 00:12:12,725
So,

333
00:12:14,544 --> 00:12:15,424
and, you know, it is

334
00:12:16,704 --> 00:12:19,284
as you say, presumably, it's not something inherent.

335
00:12:19,345 --> 00:12:21,365
It's a learned thing. Right?

336
00:12:22,539 --> 00:12:23,179
And I

337
00:12:24,220 --> 00:12:27,259
you know, thinking back to to neuroscience and

338
00:12:27,259 --> 00:12:28,159
about how our,

339
00:12:30,139 --> 00:12:31,759
our circuits of sensation

340
00:12:32,299 --> 00:12:34,754
kind of are established so early in life,

341
00:12:36,995 --> 00:12:39,414
but also how plastic our brains are, how

342
00:12:39,475 --> 00:12:42,195
adaptable to change, how we can, you know,

343
00:12:42,195 --> 00:12:42,695
grow

344
00:12:43,075 --> 00:12:43,815
new connections

345
00:12:44,195 --> 00:12:45,654
in everything that we're doing.

346
00:12:47,875 --> 00:12:48,149
It's

347
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:50,790
you know, I I think probably other people

348
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:53,830
could lean into choosing different colors for numbers

349
00:12:53,830 --> 00:12:55,990
and seeing if it changes their experience of

350
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:56,490
mathematics.

351
00:12:57,910 --> 00:13:00,330
And, also, certainly, there's plenty of people who

352
00:13:00,389 --> 00:13:01,690
have other abstract

353
00:13:02,075 --> 00:13:03,615
sensations connected, like,

354
00:13:04,035 --> 00:13:05,995
you know, people who can smell music or

355
00:13:05,995 --> 00:13:08,335
taste people's names and things like that.

356
00:13:09,115 --> 00:13:10,654
I mean, it's fascinating, but

357
00:13:11,754 --> 00:13:14,254
for me, the fascination comes from the realization

358
00:13:14,554 --> 00:13:16,440
that our brains have all adapted

359
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,519
that we all take for granted. And it's

360
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,500
whatever way you have learned something, it's magical.

361
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,659
My one just happens to be able to

362
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,139
allow me to print pretty pictures sometimes.

363
00:13:30,785 --> 00:13:31,524
That's lovely.

364
00:13:31,985 --> 00:13:33,825
Just a very silly question because you just

365
00:13:33,825 --> 00:13:34,565
mentioned names.

366
00:13:35,105 --> 00:13:37,345
How often as an artist do people ask

367
00:13:37,345 --> 00:13:39,424
you whether ink pen is your real name?

368
00:13:39,424 --> 00:13:40,565
About once a week.

369
00:13:44,625 --> 00:13:46,820
I I mean, what's funnier for me is

370
00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:47,320
that,

371
00:13:47,940 --> 00:13:49,779
more than once, I don't know even know

372
00:13:49,779 --> 00:13:52,019
how many times now, friends that I have

373
00:13:52,019 --> 00:13:53,160
known for years

374
00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:54,440
through art

375
00:13:54,820 --> 00:13:56,580
have turned to me and said, what's your

376
00:13:56,580 --> 00:13:57,320
real name?

377
00:13:57,705 --> 00:13:58,205
And

378
00:14:03,465 --> 00:14:05,065
I said And then pointed a breaker to

379
00:14:05,065 --> 00:14:06,825
them like, you've known my real name the

380
00:14:06,825 --> 00:14:07,644
entire time.

381
00:14:08,345 --> 00:14:10,825
Yeah. And it's I it's funny for me

382
00:14:10,825 --> 00:14:11,325
because,

383
00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:15,230
nobody else in my family is an artist,

384
00:14:15,850 --> 00:14:18,250
of any type. And for them, it's just

385
00:14:18,250 --> 00:14:19,529
a name, you know, a name that they're

386
00:14:19,529 --> 00:14:21,850
proud of, but it's only me that gets

387
00:14:21,850 --> 00:14:23,929
the, you know well, of course, you were

388
00:14:23,929 --> 00:14:25,450
born to be an artist, a name like

389
00:14:25,450 --> 00:14:26,429
that. I'm like, well,

390
00:14:26,914 --> 00:14:29,394
scientifically, that doesn't go very far because my

391
00:14:29,394 --> 00:14:31,794
other members of my family were not born

392
00:14:31,794 --> 00:14:33,095
to be artists at all.

393
00:14:34,595 --> 00:14:36,754
The numbers are colors. Do the colors translate

394
00:14:36,754 --> 00:14:38,534
back into numbers if you see?

395
00:14:39,475 --> 00:14:41,814
No. It's a it's it's a sad answer.

396
00:14:42,689 --> 00:14:44,929
It's it it doesn't really go back the

397
00:14:44,929 --> 00:14:46,449
other way. The color is just the color.

398
00:14:46,449 --> 00:14:46,949
It's

399
00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:49,809
the number that has the concept and the

400
00:14:49,809 --> 00:14:50,309
patterns.

401
00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:52,149
It's, you know, the the

402
00:14:52,929 --> 00:14:55,544
a kinda a number like 256,

403
00:14:55,784 --> 00:14:56,445
for example,

404
00:14:57,065 --> 00:14:57,884
that is

405
00:14:58,504 --> 00:15:01,144
beautifully bright and vibrant and colorful because of

406
00:15:01,144 --> 00:15:03,304
the factors that make it. Mhmm. So it

407
00:15:03,304 --> 00:15:05,704
is the the patterns that are drawing all

408
00:15:05,704 --> 00:15:06,764
these colors together.

409
00:15:07,625 --> 00:15:10,139
Whereas a color kind of stands alone as

410
00:15:10,139 --> 00:15:11,339
itself. I mean, I can I can look

411
00:15:11,339 --> 00:15:12,699
at something and be like, oh, well, that

412
00:15:12,699 --> 00:15:13,360
would be,

413
00:15:14,459 --> 00:15:15,279
I don't know,

414
00:15:15,659 --> 00:15:17,759
3,403?

415
00:15:17,819 --> 00:15:20,159
I'm looking at my glasses case right now.

416
00:15:22,059 --> 00:15:23,995
But, you know, it's not like the color

417
00:15:23,995 --> 00:15:26,975
of my glasses case has that intrinsic feeling

418
00:15:27,434 --> 00:15:30,014
of a number. Mhmm. It's the the numbers

419
00:15:30,074 --> 00:15:32,814
and the the beautiful patterns and the elements

420
00:15:32,875 --> 00:15:35,595
and the factors that contribute to how that

421
00:15:35,595 --> 00:15:37,800
number relates to other numbers. It's colorful.

422
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:39,879
So you were drawn

423
00:15:40,259 --> 00:15:42,340
to maths and physics, and that's where you

424
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:43,940
sort of studied first of all. Is it

425
00:15:44,180 --> 00:15:46,899
was was the weird world of quantum something

426
00:15:46,899 --> 00:15:48,920
that drew you? Oh, absolutely. And,

427
00:15:49,779 --> 00:15:52,985
I had wonderful quantum physics lecturers. So I

428
00:15:52,985 --> 00:15:55,785
studied my undergrad at, the University of Leeds,

429
00:15:55,785 --> 00:15:56,285
and

430
00:15:56,825 --> 00:15:58,125
they at that time,

431
00:15:58,585 --> 00:15:59,865
they had a I don't know if it's

432
00:15:59,865 --> 00:16:01,965
still there, but they had a really wonderful

433
00:16:02,024 --> 00:16:02,924
quantum computing,

434
00:16:05,705 --> 00:16:07,379
bit lab, whatever you call it.

435
00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:10,200
So it wasn't

436
00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:13,539
just, like, learning about quantum. It was learning

437
00:16:13,539 --> 00:16:15,779
about quantum or people who are really passionate

438
00:16:15,779 --> 00:16:17,779
about it and who were at the the

439
00:16:17,779 --> 00:16:20,295
forefront of science and who were so engaging

440
00:16:20,355 --> 00:16:23,095
and able to really communicate it well.

441
00:16:24,195 --> 00:16:24,695
I

442
00:16:25,554 --> 00:16:27,554
went to study physics. Like, I think, like

443
00:16:27,554 --> 00:16:28,295
many physicists,

444
00:16:29,715 --> 00:16:31,095
I wanted to be an astrophysicist.

445
00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:33,809
I wanted to study nebula. That was my

446
00:16:33,809 --> 00:16:35,169
kind of thought going into it as a

447
00:16:35,169 --> 00:16:35,669
teenager.

448
00:16:36,129 --> 00:16:36,629
And

449
00:16:36,929 --> 00:16:37,429
after

450
00:16:37,809 --> 00:16:40,129
a year's worth of astrophysics modules, I was

451
00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:41,429
like, you know what? Astrophysics,

452
00:16:41,809 --> 00:16:43,269
not for me, not my favorite.

453
00:16:44,784 --> 00:16:46,304
Not to say I didn't love it, and

454
00:16:46,304 --> 00:16:48,464
I still, you know, I still love the

455
00:16:48,464 --> 00:16:50,544
stars, of course. How could you not? But,

456
00:16:51,345 --> 00:16:53,345
I found the the type of physics I

457
00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:56,625
really enjoyed was thermodynamics and statistical mechanics and

458
00:16:56,625 --> 00:16:59,365
the physics of gloop and complex fluids and

459
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,980
and jelly and colloids and things like that,

460
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,460
and eventually biophysics,

461
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,080
which then lent itself towards the transition into

462
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,160
neuroscience, which happened later. There was a kind

463
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,080
of a period of about four years when

464
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,384
I worked in different jobs before I eventually

465
00:17:16,384 --> 00:17:17,904
decided I I wanted to go back to

466
00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:18,404
science.

467
00:17:19,825 --> 00:17:20,325
But,

468
00:17:21,105 --> 00:17:23,744
yeah, the the I was glad to have

469
00:17:23,744 --> 00:17:25,044
a really well rounded,

470
00:17:25,505 --> 00:17:27,204
physics education as an undergrad.

471
00:17:28,464 --> 00:17:30,085
And quantum's amazing,

472
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:31,400
obviously.

473
00:17:32,180 --> 00:17:33,859
How can you, like, how can you learn

474
00:17:33,859 --> 00:17:36,740
about quantum and not just be fundamentally changed

475
00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:39,220
as a person after after learning about it?

476
00:17:39,220 --> 00:17:42,740
I remember this particular lecture where our first

477
00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:45,875
year physics lecturer brought us the whole way

478
00:17:45,875 --> 00:17:48,515
through a derivation and kept on checking and

479
00:17:48,515 --> 00:17:49,714
being like, we all agree with it. Right?

480
00:17:49,714 --> 00:17:51,234
And you got a 100 students all nodding

481
00:17:51,234 --> 00:17:52,674
being like, yeah, we're all following this. We're

482
00:17:52,674 --> 00:17:55,234
all following this. And then the kind of

483
00:17:55,234 --> 00:17:56,294
conclusion was,

484
00:17:57,474 --> 00:17:57,974
therefore,

485
00:17:58,355 --> 00:17:59,174
many universes.

486
00:18:00,910 --> 00:18:03,070
And you kind of had a 100 people

487
00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:05,470
who've all been following this derivation, following the

488
00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:07,230
maps the whole way through, agreeing with it

489
00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:09,630
with every step, and then being like, yeah.

490
00:18:09,630 --> 00:18:11,414
I can't really argue with that.

491
00:18:13,575 --> 00:18:15,734
I I had a friend, a physicist friend

492
00:18:15,734 --> 00:18:17,115
visit just this weekend.

493
00:18:17,494 --> 00:18:17,994
And,

494
00:18:19,414 --> 00:18:21,095
this physicist friend that I studied with as

495
00:18:21,095 --> 00:18:21,755
an undergraduate

496
00:18:22,055 --> 00:18:24,295
doesn't work in physics anymore, works in data

497
00:18:24,295 --> 00:18:24,690
science.

498
00:18:25,809 --> 00:18:28,129
And she and I were talking about how

499
00:18:28,129 --> 00:18:29,429
you're never not a physicist.

500
00:18:30,369 --> 00:18:32,609
Like, even though it was, you know, our

501
00:18:32,609 --> 00:18:35,509
undergraduate years, we still have that identity

502
00:18:36,129 --> 00:18:37,429
so kind of fundamentally

503
00:18:37,865 --> 00:18:39,625
in ourselves. And I think, you know, quantum

504
00:18:39,625 --> 00:18:40,825
has a a big role to play in

505
00:18:40,825 --> 00:18:41,325
that.

506
00:18:42,744 --> 00:18:44,365
Yeah. So you have,

507
00:18:45,224 --> 00:18:48,125
created the front cover of the quantum briefing

508
00:18:48,184 --> 00:18:49,224
for physics world.

509
00:18:49,545 --> 00:18:51,065
Perhaps we could look at that as a

510
00:18:51,065 --> 00:18:51,724
sort of

511
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:55,990
example of your creative process. Maybe talk us

512
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:58,390
through what how that came to you. And

513
00:18:58,630 --> 00:19:00,710
Well, I was delighted to get the commission,

514
00:19:00,710 --> 00:19:03,589
and the commission was, can you paint a

515
00:19:03,589 --> 00:19:05,414
picture of quantum mechanics that's,

516
00:19:06,695 --> 00:19:09,894
beautiful and colorful and original and not something

517
00:19:09,894 --> 00:19:10,955
that we've seen before?

518
00:19:11,975 --> 00:19:14,455
So no cats in boxes or anything like

519
00:19:14,455 --> 00:19:14,955
that.

520
00:19:16,775 --> 00:19:17,275
And,

521
00:19:18,455 --> 00:19:20,075
obviously, that's slightly daunting.

522
00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:24,850
My process when it comes to art is

523
00:19:26,190 --> 00:19:28,590
often it goes back to experimentation and play.

524
00:19:28,590 --> 00:19:30,910
And, actually, I sort of see experimentation and

525
00:19:30,910 --> 00:19:32,190
play as kind of one and the same

526
00:19:32,190 --> 00:19:32,690
thing.

527
00:19:33,070 --> 00:19:33,570
The,

528
00:19:35,615 --> 00:19:37,134
I will go into my studio and I'll

529
00:19:37,134 --> 00:19:38,974
see what art materials I have around, and

530
00:19:38,974 --> 00:19:40,275
I will just start

531
00:19:40,654 --> 00:19:41,555
messing about,

532
00:19:41,934 --> 00:19:44,255
messing about like a kid. And then sort

533
00:19:44,255 --> 00:19:46,015
of thinking what would happen if? What would

534
00:19:46,015 --> 00:19:46,835
happen if?

535
00:19:47,535 --> 00:19:48,674
So I'd already,

536
00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:52,580
started this series of works, which were just

537
00:19:52,580 --> 00:19:53,720
exploring how

538
00:19:54,019 --> 00:19:56,580
how different pigments move, which had all started

539
00:19:56,580 --> 00:19:58,180
when I was just washing my brush. I

540
00:19:58,180 --> 00:19:59,700
was washing my some ink off of my

541
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:02,580
paintbrush in some water, and I was like,

542
00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:05,045
oh, I like that. I like the way

543
00:20:05,045 --> 00:20:06,505
the ink moves in the water.

544
00:20:06,805 --> 00:20:09,125
And then that led to more and more

545
00:20:09,125 --> 00:20:10,265
elaborate setups,

546
00:20:10,724 --> 00:20:14,025
adding in bigger glasses, different inks, different pigments,

547
00:20:14,724 --> 00:20:17,704
different lighting setups, getting myself a UV torch,

548
00:20:17,809 --> 00:20:19,569
buying a big spaghetti jar because that I

549
00:20:19,569 --> 00:20:21,349
could fill the whole way up with water.

550
00:20:23,169 --> 00:20:23,669
So

551
00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:26,210
I was thinking about, right, how could you

552
00:20:26,210 --> 00:20:28,210
represent quantum mechanics? And I'm I'm sort of,

553
00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:30,369
you know, going back and thinking about everything

554
00:20:30,369 --> 00:20:32,174
I'd loved about quantum mechanics. And

555
00:20:32,975 --> 00:20:35,075
and the a lot of it comes down

556
00:20:35,695 --> 00:20:36,355
to probability,

557
00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:40,654
the idea of many things being true at

558
00:20:40,654 --> 00:20:41,154
once

559
00:20:41,535 --> 00:20:42,015
and,

560
00:20:42,335 --> 00:20:44,015
being able to kind of prove that through

561
00:20:44,015 --> 00:20:44,515
interference.

562
00:20:46,059 --> 00:20:48,240
So I was thinking, how can I create,

563
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:50,000
a plain full setup

564
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:51,919
where I can see,

565
00:20:53,339 --> 00:20:56,720
different pigments, different inks interfering and coexisting

566
00:20:57,179 --> 00:20:58,275
in the same space?

567
00:20:58,994 --> 00:21:01,075
Maybe that will lead me to something that

568
00:21:01,075 --> 00:21:03,394
I feel starts to represent something to do

569
00:21:03,394 --> 00:21:04,375
with quantum mechanics.

570
00:21:06,275 --> 00:21:06,775
And

571
00:21:07,474 --> 00:21:08,214
what I,

572
00:21:08,515 --> 00:21:10,914
this is another like weird thing about being

573
00:21:10,914 --> 00:21:12,914
an artist. It's very hard to throw anything

574
00:21:12,914 --> 00:21:13,740
away, very

575
00:21:14,299 --> 00:21:16,160
because you're always like, that might be useful.

576
00:21:17,660 --> 00:21:19,980
So I had a bunch of expired printer

577
00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:20,480
cartridges,

578
00:21:21,660 --> 00:21:23,599
which had been sitting on my table,

579
00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:26,539
in a little dish. And I thought, right,

580
00:21:26,539 --> 00:21:28,214
maybe I can do something with these.

581
00:21:28,775 --> 00:21:29,414
And then,

582
00:21:30,855 --> 00:21:32,474
I thought it'd be really good

583
00:21:32,934 --> 00:21:34,075
if I could

584
00:21:34,615 --> 00:21:36,454
see how the ink flows out of the

585
00:21:36,454 --> 00:21:37,355
printer cartridges.

586
00:21:38,855 --> 00:21:39,355
But,

587
00:21:40,214 --> 00:21:41,255
I I first had tried it in my

588
00:21:41,255 --> 00:21:42,775
big spaghetti jar, and I thought, no. No.

589
00:21:42,775 --> 00:21:45,259
No. No. We need something shallow, wide and

590
00:21:45,259 --> 00:21:46,299
shallow. So I went off to the shop

591
00:21:46,299 --> 00:21:48,460
and bought myself a oven dish, came back,

592
00:21:48,460 --> 00:21:50,539
and I thought, how can I light this?

593
00:21:50,539 --> 00:21:51,980
It's really hard to light this. It'd be

594
00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:53,180
really good if I had a light box.

595
00:21:53,180 --> 00:21:54,460
I didn't have a light box, but what

596
00:21:54,460 --> 00:21:56,720
I did have was a seasonal affective disorder

597
00:21:56,779 --> 00:21:58,380
lamp, you know, one of these sort of

598
00:21:58,380 --> 00:22:01,115
flat lamps that kind of emits incredibly bright

599
00:22:01,115 --> 00:22:03,674
LED lights. So went and got that, put

600
00:22:03,674 --> 00:22:05,835
it underneath the oven dish, and then put

601
00:22:05,835 --> 00:22:07,835
my put some water in the oven dish,

602
00:22:07,835 --> 00:22:09,355
and then put the printer cartridges in. And

603
00:22:09,355 --> 00:22:10,634
then I was like, right. I like how

604
00:22:10,634 --> 00:22:12,234
they're moving, or I like how the ink

605
00:22:12,234 --> 00:22:14,174
is is moving out of that.

606
00:22:16,089 --> 00:22:17,769
But I think we can adapt how the

607
00:22:17,769 --> 00:22:19,609
ink moves a bit more. So then it

608
00:22:19,609 --> 00:22:20,750
was it was

609
00:22:21,049 --> 00:22:22,349
a a couple of days of

610
00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:24,109
intense play.

611
00:22:24,890 --> 00:22:26,670
I mean, like, getting really focused

612
00:22:27,565 --> 00:22:29,404
and experimenting with, like, what happens if I

613
00:22:29,404 --> 00:22:30,845
add a bit of salt? What happens if

614
00:22:30,845 --> 00:22:33,565
I make a really thin layer of water

615
00:22:33,565 --> 00:22:35,404
before I add main cartridges? What happens if

616
00:22:35,404 --> 00:22:38,225
I add this? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So, eventually,

617
00:22:39,245 --> 00:22:40,465
two printer cartridges

618
00:22:41,009 --> 00:22:44,130
and a very thin layer of, like, 60%

619
00:22:44,130 --> 00:22:45,589
sugar, 40% water

620
00:22:45,890 --> 00:22:47,830
was the golden kind of,

621
00:22:49,490 --> 00:22:49,990
mixture.

622
00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:51,190
And then

623
00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:53,570
I basically, I just sit in my studio,

624
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:55,605
and I I watch and I observe. And

625
00:22:55,605 --> 00:22:57,545
eventually, I'll go, oh, I like that.

626
00:22:57,924 --> 00:22:59,625
And take a quick photo

627
00:22:59,924 --> 00:23:01,525
or take a video if you're sort of

628
00:23:01,525 --> 00:23:02,744
trying to see the dynamics.

629
00:23:03,605 --> 00:23:04,744
And then from that,

630
00:23:05,845 --> 00:23:08,519
basically, start playing with the images, start playing

631
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:10,779
with paints because then it's you know,

632
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,180
I'm not a photographer. I'm a painter.

633
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:15,880
I've created I've captured an image of a

634
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,519
moment that can never be created again of

635
00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:19,259
of this

636
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,960
this diffusion of dyes that I feel is

637
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,704
is able to communicate something about,

638
00:23:26,204 --> 00:23:27,585
about, yeah, probability,

639
00:23:28,045 --> 00:23:28,525
about,

640
00:23:29,884 --> 00:23:32,384
states existing in the same place. But

641
00:23:33,005 --> 00:23:34,845
for me as an artist, that's it's not

642
00:23:34,845 --> 00:23:37,069
enough to stop there. I need

643
00:23:37,369 --> 00:23:38,990
to then have that engagement

644
00:23:39,369 --> 00:23:40,669
with it. So,

645
00:23:41,929 --> 00:23:44,569
yeah, once I have that that photograph, it's

646
00:23:44,569 --> 00:23:46,409
then how can I recreate this? And I

647
00:23:46,409 --> 00:23:48,089
love working with oil paints. Oh my gosh.

648
00:23:48,089 --> 00:23:49,529
Everybody should have a go playing with oil

649
00:23:49,529 --> 00:23:51,345
paints once you have, Unfortunately, you have to

650
00:23:51,345 --> 00:23:53,204
buy a bunch of, like, solvents and

651
00:23:53,984 --> 00:23:55,744
mediums and things like that, and they do

652
00:23:55,744 --> 00:23:57,984
take an absolute age to dry. But oil

653
00:23:57,984 --> 00:24:00,144
paints, oh, they're delicious. They're just so fun

654
00:24:00,144 --> 00:24:01,045
to paint with.

655
00:24:02,305 --> 00:24:05,149
So then it's going about, right, can you

656
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:07,849
manipulate these oil paints on your on your,

657
00:24:08,329 --> 00:24:08,829
panel,

658
00:24:10,089 --> 00:24:11,769
in such a way that you feel is

659
00:24:11,769 --> 00:24:15,129
is managing to capture this spontaneous moment that

660
00:24:15,129 --> 00:24:16,750
you've captured in this photograph?

661
00:24:19,095 --> 00:24:20,535
So in some ways, it feels like it

662
00:24:20,535 --> 00:24:21,894
feels like a bit of a ruse or

663
00:24:21,894 --> 00:24:23,115
a bit of a luck that

664
00:24:23,894 --> 00:24:25,894
that I've taken a a couple of days

665
00:24:25,894 --> 00:24:27,035
of pure play,

666
00:24:27,894 --> 00:24:28,875
and out of

667
00:24:29,335 --> 00:24:31,734
it have, an image which is on the

668
00:24:31,734 --> 00:24:34,059
cover of the quantum briefing. You know,

669
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,859
it it's what a great job I have.

670
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:37,660
Okay.

671
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,240
It's amazing. And what a wonderful job you

672
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,720
have done on that, front cover. Yeah. So

673
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,855
if people want to see that, of course,

674
00:24:45,855 --> 00:24:48,194
you'll have to find the quantum briefing links

675
00:24:48,414 --> 00:24:50,654
to them on physicsworld.com.

676
00:24:50,974 --> 00:24:52,974
I just want to, before I let you

677
00:24:52,974 --> 00:24:54,835
go and play some more,

678
00:24:55,295 --> 00:24:56,974
I'd I will have to kind of out

679
00:24:56,974 --> 00:24:58,894
myself with something of a fan because there

680
00:24:58,894 --> 00:25:00,659
is some of your work on the walls

681
00:25:00,659 --> 00:25:01,799
of my house. Yes. Which

682
00:25:04,099 --> 00:25:06,440
is an illustration rather than a painting. Absolutely.

683
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:08,579
Yes. Well, I think it's something you might

684
00:25:08,579 --> 00:25:10,200
do for other people as well.

685
00:25:10,579 --> 00:25:13,214
But it comes from from my love of,

686
00:25:13,615 --> 00:25:16,015
Philip Pullman's work. Oh, I really hope we

687
00:25:16,015 --> 00:25:17,694
will talk about this because I also love

688
00:25:17,694 --> 00:25:19,714
Philip Pullman's work. Amazing.

689
00:25:20,095 --> 00:25:21,375
So can you tell me a bit about

690
00:25:21,375 --> 00:25:23,134
what that is that you do for Oh,

691
00:25:23,134 --> 00:25:24,355
absolutely. So

692
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:26,220
I should probably give a tiny bit of

693
00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:28,480
context, which is to say that when

694
00:25:29,019 --> 00:25:31,500
2020 happened, when there was a lockdowns, I

695
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:34,059
really struggled. And, unfortunately, that's part of my

696
00:25:34,059 --> 00:25:35,519
reason for leaving academia

697
00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:38,404
was the struggle that I experienced during,

698
00:25:39,105 --> 00:25:39,845
the pandemic.

699
00:25:40,625 --> 00:25:43,025
I have a preexisting phobia of pandemics, which

700
00:25:43,025 --> 00:25:43,924
I don't recommend.

701
00:25:45,025 --> 00:25:45,525
So,

702
00:25:47,825 --> 00:25:50,244
that time was very, very tricky. And,

703
00:25:50,705 --> 00:25:53,205
although I was still fully employed in neuroscience,

704
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:57,049
I found that art was an amazing

705
00:25:57,670 --> 00:26:00,490
solace for me that when I was creating,

706
00:26:00,950 --> 00:26:02,869
I could switch off the anxiety of my

707
00:26:02,869 --> 00:26:03,369
brain,

708
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:05,684
in a way that I couldn't really achieve

709
00:26:05,684 --> 00:26:06,664
doing anything else.

710
00:26:08,085 --> 00:26:10,585
So I I desperately needed a project

711
00:26:11,284 --> 00:26:12,744
to keep my brain engaged,

712
00:26:13,125 --> 00:26:13,605
and,

713
00:26:14,244 --> 00:26:16,005
I thought about Philip Pullman and his dark

714
00:26:16,005 --> 00:26:16,505
materials

715
00:26:16,964 --> 00:26:18,809
trilogy, which I loved

716
00:26:19,130 --> 00:26:21,210
since I first read Northern Lights when it

717
00:26:21,210 --> 00:26:22,490
would have been about, I don't know, 10

718
00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:23,150
or 11.

719
00:26:24,809 --> 00:26:26,970
And I wanted I asked people if I

720
00:26:26,970 --> 00:26:29,289
could draw their demons. So in the in

721
00:26:29,289 --> 00:26:30,330
the trilogy of,

722
00:26:31,130 --> 00:26:32,110
His Dark Materials,

723
00:26:33,585 --> 00:26:36,244
every person, their soul has a physical manifestation,

724
00:26:36,384 --> 00:26:37,984
which takes the shape of an animal. And

725
00:26:37,984 --> 00:26:39,605
in this trilogy, it's called a demon.

726
00:26:40,384 --> 00:26:40,884
And

727
00:26:41,585 --> 00:26:43,505
I started off drawing some for close friends

728
00:26:43,505 --> 00:26:44,164
and then,

729
00:26:45,184 --> 00:26:47,345
started asking other people, would you like yours

730
00:26:47,345 --> 00:26:47,845
drawn

731
00:26:48,179 --> 00:26:50,259
And what a joyful thing to do.

732
00:26:51,059 --> 00:26:51,960
Also, like,

733
00:26:52,579 --> 00:26:53,639
I don't know how,

734
00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:57,859
how relevant this is for this chat, but

735
00:26:57,859 --> 00:26:59,379
I I was I was hoping that you

736
00:26:59,379 --> 00:27:01,724
might bring up his dark materials, Andrew, because,

737
00:27:02,605 --> 00:27:04,785
the character of doctor Mary Malone.

738
00:27:05,404 --> 00:27:07,005
I was thinking about it,

739
00:27:07,404 --> 00:27:09,025
in preparation for this conversation

740
00:27:09,724 --> 00:27:10,865
and thinking how

741
00:27:12,285 --> 00:27:14,099
fundamental that character is

742
00:27:14,579 --> 00:27:16,660
for me. Like, that's a character that as

743
00:27:16,660 --> 00:27:18,980
a child I really related to. So this

744
00:27:18,980 --> 00:27:21,940
is a character who she's a a quantum

745
00:27:21,940 --> 00:27:23,960
physicist who's gone into neuroscience

746
00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:25,240
and

747
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:26,744
then goes off on this

748
00:27:27,944 --> 00:27:29,085
beautiful adventure

749
00:27:29,384 --> 00:27:30,525
to try and understand,

750
00:27:32,664 --> 00:27:33,805
how consciousness works.

751
00:27:34,345 --> 00:27:34,845
And

752
00:27:35,704 --> 00:27:38,605
I think it's so important to have examples

753
00:27:38,825 --> 00:27:41,190
of people like that in art or in

754
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:43,450
literature or in creativity to

755
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:46,869
inspire people to to to see to imagine

756
00:27:46,869 --> 00:27:48,569
themselves as different kinds of people.

757
00:27:48,869 --> 00:27:50,329
Like, I don't think

758
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:51,130
it's,

759
00:27:51,509 --> 00:27:53,109
you know, it's not that much of a

760
00:27:53,109 --> 00:27:54,950
coincidence that I ended up being a physicist

761
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:57,424
who went into neuroscience after being so inspired

762
00:27:57,424 --> 00:27:59,285
by a character like that. You know?

763
00:28:00,705 --> 00:28:01,765
But, yes, I

764
00:28:02,065 --> 00:28:02,964
really enjoyed

765
00:28:03,505 --> 00:28:06,565
drawing doing illustrations of of different people's

766
00:28:07,105 --> 00:28:08,724
demons, their soul animals.

767
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:13,000
You know what? I've never actually done my

768
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,779
own. I think mine is a cormorant.

769
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:16,700
But Okay.

770
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:18,700
Yeah.

771
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,400
I need to sit down and and draw

772
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,904
my own demon at some point.

773
00:28:24,585 --> 00:28:26,105
I I I don't wanna ask too many

774
00:28:26,105 --> 00:28:27,865
questions about that because that's gonna go really

775
00:28:27,865 --> 00:28:30,125
deep if we start analyzing our demons.

776
00:28:31,945 --> 00:28:34,265
That's not too much. But, the the Mary

777
00:28:34,265 --> 00:28:36,184
Malone thing is quite interesting. I mean, I

778
00:28:36,184 --> 00:28:38,285
absolutely love the character of Mary Malone

779
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,440
and that, as you say, for for many

780
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:41,940
reasons,

781
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:43,859
including that

782
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:44,740
transitional,

783
00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:48,079
career that she's having. Yes. You say you're

784
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:49,920
inspired by it. I'm sure there's some of

785
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,759
that in there, but I think it's also

786
00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:52,500
that that's

787
00:28:52,924 --> 00:28:55,565
that character enabled you to see who you

788
00:28:55,565 --> 00:28:57,345
were. Yes. And that's the importance

789
00:28:57,644 --> 00:29:00,204
of art is that sometimes you need to

790
00:29:00,204 --> 00:29:01,884
see something on a page in a book

791
00:29:01,884 --> 00:29:04,044
or in a performance or in a hear

792
00:29:04,044 --> 00:29:05,244
it in a song or see it in

793
00:29:05,244 --> 00:29:07,184
a painting before you're able to articulate,

794
00:29:07,769 --> 00:29:09,369
oh, this is how I feel about this

795
00:29:09,369 --> 00:29:11,369
thing, which, you know, going back to beginning

796
00:29:11,369 --> 00:29:14,330
our conversation is why the synesthesia painting has

797
00:29:14,330 --> 00:29:16,570
been so interesting because so many people have

798
00:29:16,570 --> 00:29:19,130
been able to articulate things that they'd never

799
00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:20,590
able to articulate before.

800
00:29:21,734 --> 00:29:24,134
My, I did a a art exhibition back

801
00:29:24,134 --> 00:29:25,275
in 2016,

802
00:29:25,654 --> 00:29:26,795
which was all about,

803
00:29:27,174 --> 00:29:29,735
a phenomenon phenomenon called lapel de vid or

804
00:29:29,735 --> 00:29:31,734
a call of the void, which if you've

805
00:29:31,734 --> 00:29:32,634
ever been

806
00:29:32,934 --> 00:29:34,615
up in some high place and you've had

807
00:29:34,615 --> 00:29:36,910
a little intrusive thought of, like, what would

808
00:29:36,910 --> 00:29:39,070
happen if I lent too far over this

809
00:29:39,070 --> 00:29:39,570
railing?

810
00:29:39,950 --> 00:29:41,170
That's lapel David.

811
00:29:41,630 --> 00:29:42,130
And,

812
00:29:42,990 --> 00:29:45,630
so I created all these paintings, explored this

813
00:29:45,630 --> 00:29:48,190
idea and then presented them. And, oh my

814
00:29:48,190 --> 00:29:50,775
gosh. I had the best conversations with strangers

815
00:29:51,335 --> 00:29:53,734
because people would say, I know exactly what

816
00:29:53,734 --> 00:29:55,654
you mean. It's like when I'm driving really

817
00:29:55,654 --> 00:29:57,335
fast on the motorway and I have a

818
00:29:57,335 --> 00:29:58,934
little voice in my head, that's like, well,

819
00:29:58,934 --> 00:30:00,455
what would happen if, or,

820
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:04,710
there was some very,

821
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:07,190
interesting examples that other people gave me. Actually,

822
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:08,950
maybe I won't share them because maybe that's

823
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:10,490
a breaking of trust, but,

824
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:14,710
it's a privilege as an artist that you

825
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:15,769
get to be

826
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:18,089
exploring these ideas,

827
00:30:18,554 --> 00:30:19,054
creating

828
00:30:19,355 --> 00:30:22,154
images, and then having the most amazing conversations

829
00:30:22,154 --> 00:30:24,075
with other people as those other people find

830
00:30:24,075 --> 00:30:25,934
value in the images that you've created.

831
00:30:26,554 --> 00:30:28,095
It's it's a complete privilege.

832
00:30:29,994 --> 00:30:32,554
Yeah. I tell you what's really lovely about

833
00:30:32,554 --> 00:30:33,294
the demon

834
00:30:33,809 --> 00:30:35,809
illustration that you did for us is when

835
00:30:35,809 --> 00:30:38,049
people come and stay with us or come

836
00:30:38,049 --> 00:30:39,889
and visit us, and they look at the

837
00:30:39,889 --> 00:30:41,569
picture and then they go Uh-huh. Hang on

838
00:30:41,569 --> 00:30:44,769
a second. Yeah. Is this is this and

839
00:30:44,769 --> 00:30:46,674
you're like, oh, yeah. Now I've got a

840
00:30:46,674 --> 00:30:49,555
proper friend because they recognize what this is.

841
00:30:49,555 --> 00:30:51,474
I I I love that too. I love,

842
00:30:52,115 --> 00:30:53,474
so as I said, I think mine is

843
00:30:53,474 --> 00:30:54,055
a cormorant.

844
00:30:55,315 --> 00:30:57,154
What is absolutely certain is that it's a

845
00:30:57,154 --> 00:30:59,710
bird because whenever I've sort of mentioned it,

846
00:31:00,090 --> 00:31:02,170
the concept of demons from historic materials to

847
00:31:02,170 --> 00:31:04,490
anyone, they've always gone, oh, you're a bird

848
00:31:04,490 --> 00:31:05,869
of some kind. Mhmm.

849
00:31:07,690 --> 00:31:09,529
And then it's just different people. Some people

850
00:31:09,769 --> 00:31:11,210
my I think my mother thinks I'm a

851
00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:11,710
jackdaw.

852
00:31:13,195 --> 00:31:13,695
Okay.

853
00:31:16,555 --> 00:31:18,315
They're very clever. I didn't know that's about

854
00:31:18,315 --> 00:31:19,994
me. They I think I think it means

855
00:31:19,994 --> 00:31:21,994
they're very clever, very useful. You use the

856
00:31:21,994 --> 00:31:24,634
tools to make the world a better place,

857
00:31:24,634 --> 00:31:26,095
so that seems fine.

858
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:28,130
I like that interpretation.

859
00:31:29,710 --> 00:31:31,070
If people want to know,

860
00:31:31,549 --> 00:31:33,390
more about your work, where would they find

861
00:31:33,390 --> 00:31:35,250
you? Thank you so much for asking.

862
00:31:35,950 --> 00:31:36,930
I'm on Instagram.

863
00:31:37,950 --> 00:31:39,009
I have a website.

864
00:31:40,095 --> 00:31:42,994
Basically, if you search for Felicity ink pen,

865
00:31:43,134 --> 00:31:45,615
it is an unusual name. You're gonna find

866
00:31:45,615 --> 00:31:47,394
me. So you can just

867
00:31:47,695 --> 00:31:49,934
chuck my name into your search engine of

868
00:31:49,934 --> 00:31:50,434
choice,

869
00:31:50,894 --> 00:31:52,414
and you'll be able to find me on

870
00:31:52,414 --> 00:31:54,434
those. I'm also on Blue Sky and Substack

871
00:31:54,654 --> 00:31:57,509
at felicity ink pen. I highly recommend that

872
00:31:57,509 --> 00:32:00,490
you do find your way to looking through

873
00:32:00,789 --> 00:32:04,009
Felicity's work on those various links. But

874
00:32:04,390 --> 00:32:05,369
to dive deeper

875
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:08,869
into the quantum briefing, here's someone whose voice

876
00:32:08,869 --> 00:32:11,224
and name might well be familiar

877
00:32:11,525 --> 00:32:13,525
to quite a few of you. Hi, Andrew.

878
00:32:13,525 --> 00:32:16,244
I'm Tishna Kumar Sarayat. I am the features

879
00:32:16,244 --> 00:32:17,785
editor for Physics World.

880
00:32:18,164 --> 00:32:20,805
And this year, my special project all year

881
00:32:20,805 --> 00:32:21,705
long is

882
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,599
all our coverage for the international year of

883
00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:25,099
quantum

884
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,599
technology and science twenty twenty five. So it's

885
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:31,159
all quantum all the time for me. Yeah.

886
00:32:31,159 --> 00:32:32,700
Does that make you feel a bit weird?

887
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:35,559
I like that part. No. Do you know

888
00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:36,539
what? My my

889
00:32:36,845 --> 00:32:38,605
aim for this year is to make most

890
00:32:38,605 --> 00:32:40,865
people think that quantum is not that weird.

891
00:32:41,005 --> 00:32:42,845
Or if it's weird, it's a fun kind

892
00:32:42,845 --> 00:32:44,924
of weird and not, oh, no idea what's

893
00:32:44,924 --> 00:32:46,305
going on kind of weird.

894
00:32:47,085 --> 00:32:49,404
Okay. But does because I find when I'm

895
00:32:49,404 --> 00:32:51,644
doing these podcasts about quantum that it makes

896
00:32:51,644 --> 00:32:54,039
me it makes me kind of think about

897
00:32:54,099 --> 00:32:55,619
what's going on around me in a slightly

898
00:32:55,619 --> 00:32:56,980
different way. If you're doing it all the

899
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:58,339
time, does it not do that a little

900
00:32:58,339 --> 00:32:58,839
bit?

901
00:32:59,539 --> 00:33:01,380
It does. It does. It makes you have

902
00:33:01,380 --> 00:33:02,279
this amazing

903
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:03,400
appreciation

904
00:33:03,859 --> 00:33:04,680
for how

905
00:33:05,325 --> 00:33:06,544
strange and wonderful,

906
00:33:07,085 --> 00:33:08,924
the world is around us and and the

907
00:33:08,924 --> 00:33:10,605
fact that there's still so much to be

908
00:33:10,605 --> 00:33:12,284
learned. There's so much that we don't understand

909
00:33:12,284 --> 00:33:16,065
about what is essentially a really fundamental aspect

910
00:33:16,125 --> 00:33:17,265
of our existence.

911
00:33:19,170 --> 00:33:21,170
So you have a quantum briefing. We we

912
00:33:21,170 --> 00:33:23,329
were we were developing this briefing in the

913
00:33:23,329 --> 00:33:24,710
early half of the year,

914
00:33:25,089 --> 00:33:27,089
and, you know, we were saying, well, we've

915
00:33:27,089 --> 00:33:29,170
got so much excellent content in it. We

916
00:33:29,170 --> 00:33:31,670
want something really exciting on the cover.

917
00:33:32,494 --> 00:33:35,454
And here's the thing. Right? Quantum mechanics, very

918
00:33:35,454 --> 00:33:36,434
popular subject,

919
00:33:37,054 --> 00:33:39,454
very hard to have interesting pretty pictures of

920
00:33:39,454 --> 00:33:41,294
it because it's not something you can photograph.

921
00:33:41,294 --> 00:33:42,894
You know? It's not like astronomy. You can't

922
00:33:42,894 --> 00:33:44,494
stick a pretty picture of a galaxy or

923
00:33:44,494 --> 00:33:47,419
a nebula on. It's really hard to visualize.

924
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,759
And I realized that all the magazines and

925
00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:53,640
things that are out right now, everyone's using

926
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,679
the same 40 or 50 pictures from, you

927
00:33:56,679 --> 00:33:59,160
know, Shutterstock and iStock and Science Photos. So

928
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,285
it's either a picture of a so called

929
00:34:01,285 --> 00:34:04,105
quantum computer, which is mostly the dilution refrigeration

930
00:34:04,404 --> 00:34:06,725
part of it because the actual computer is

931
00:34:06,725 --> 00:34:08,345
really tiny and boring looking,

932
00:34:09,605 --> 00:34:11,204
or it's something, you know, some sort of

933
00:34:11,204 --> 00:34:14,344
bushy lines that look vaguely like an atom

934
00:34:14,769 --> 00:34:16,769
or something like that. And I wanted something

935
00:34:16,769 --> 00:34:19,750
really different and visually exciting on the cover.

936
00:34:20,369 --> 00:34:22,530
And so I thought I wanted an artist

937
00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:25,190
who really understands quantum mechanics to represent,

938
00:34:26,450 --> 00:34:29,425
their idea of key quantum concepts on the

939
00:34:29,425 --> 00:34:32,244
cover. And so I thought of, Felicity, Fliss,

940
00:34:32,625 --> 00:34:34,784
who used to work at IOP publishing many

941
00:34:34,784 --> 00:34:36,724
years ago, and she has a big background

942
00:34:37,025 --> 00:34:37,844
in science.

943
00:34:38,144 --> 00:34:39,425
And so I sort of reached out to

944
00:34:39,425 --> 00:34:40,784
her and I said, hey. Would you like

945
00:34:40,784 --> 00:34:42,784
to paint something about quantum? And she absolutely

946
00:34:42,784 --> 00:34:43,050
loved it,

947
00:34:45,610 --> 00:34:48,170
and so, you know, I'm sure you've heard

948
00:34:48,170 --> 00:34:49,530
her talk about how she came up with

949
00:34:49,530 --> 00:34:52,349
the the dyes and the imaging and then

950
00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:56,010
her stunning painting, cubit's duality, which I love,

951
00:34:56,010 --> 00:34:57,769
which I think is just amazing on the

952
00:34:57,769 --> 00:34:58,269
cover.

953
00:34:58,635 --> 00:35:00,815
I think it really gives you this

954
00:35:01,114 --> 00:35:02,414
amazing sense of

955
00:35:02,954 --> 00:35:05,295
the ideas of entanglement and superposition,

956
00:35:05,594 --> 00:35:07,755
but in a beautiful way that is quite

957
00:35:07,755 --> 00:35:08,655
rare to

958
00:35:09,034 --> 00:35:11,900
associate with quantum mechanics. So yeah.

959
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:14,119
It's quite a lovely thing, isn't it? Because

960
00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:15,559
I've done some things in the past where

961
00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:17,880
you've been kinda working on something, and then

962
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,799
as a result of what you're working on,

963
00:35:19,799 --> 00:35:21,559
something else has come out of it. Some

964
00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:23,559
sort of art or creation or something's come

965
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:25,155
out of it. It's just a lovely thing

966
00:35:25,155 --> 00:35:27,474
to happen, isn't it? Absolutely. And I'm so

967
00:35:27,474 --> 00:35:30,515
happy to say that this painting is being

968
00:35:30,515 --> 00:35:33,494
displayed all over The UK at different events.

969
00:35:34,114 --> 00:35:36,835
So two weeks ago, it was displayed as

970
00:35:36,835 --> 00:35:39,795
part of the Great Exhibition Road Festival in

971
00:35:39,795 --> 00:35:40,295
London,

972
00:35:40,659 --> 00:35:42,599
and it was part of Imperial's,

973
00:35:43,219 --> 00:35:44,099
quantum art,

974
00:35:44,659 --> 00:35:47,559
quantum jungle where they had all these amazing,

975
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:50,840
pieces of quantum art, some of them interactive.

976
00:35:51,380 --> 00:35:53,139
And there were so many people there, so

977
00:35:53,139 --> 00:35:55,664
many young children. It was amazing having them

978
00:35:55,664 --> 00:35:57,765
all look at this and go, oh, pretty,

979
00:35:57,824 --> 00:36:00,005
you know, which is quite rare for quantum.

980
00:36:01,265 --> 00:36:03,105
Hopefully, the painting is going to also be

981
00:36:03,105 --> 00:36:04,545
displayed at the,

982
00:36:05,425 --> 00:36:05,925
Royal

983
00:36:06,224 --> 00:36:08,785
Society Summer Festival. And later on in the

984
00:36:08,785 --> 00:36:11,410
year, the Science Gallery in London is having

985
00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:13,809
a special quantum exhibition, and,

986
00:36:14,690 --> 00:36:17,170
Qubit's Duality will be seen there too. So

987
00:36:17,170 --> 00:36:19,410
if you're anywhere in The UK, keep your

988
00:36:19,410 --> 00:36:21,974
eyes peeled for our stunning quantum art.

989
00:36:22,695 --> 00:36:25,255
Amazing. Yeah. I've I didn't know that. That's

990
00:36:25,255 --> 00:36:27,335
a delightful thing. I'll be finding my way

991
00:36:27,335 --> 00:36:28,934
to one of those. Because the other place

992
00:36:28,934 --> 00:36:30,614
I can see is on the front cover

993
00:36:30,614 --> 00:36:32,855
of the Quantum Briefing, and I would like

994
00:36:32,855 --> 00:36:35,434
to just sort of open the pages

995
00:36:36,829 --> 00:36:39,710
of that and look inside. What's sort of

996
00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:41,869
drawn you as you've been looking into it

997
00:36:41,869 --> 00:36:44,750
and, putting this this briefing together? You know,

998
00:36:44,750 --> 00:36:46,909
sometimes you you come up with what you

999
00:36:46,909 --> 00:36:47,409
want

1000
00:36:47,710 --> 00:36:50,030
to go exactly, what you wanna cover in

1001
00:36:50,030 --> 00:36:51,170
this kind of thing,

1002
00:36:51,775 --> 00:36:52,994
in the special collection.

1003
00:36:53,375 --> 00:36:55,135
And other times, you sort of look at

1004
00:36:55,215 --> 00:36:58,094
we we have so much exciting quantum content

1005
00:36:58,094 --> 00:36:59,235
that we pull together,

1006
00:37:00,094 --> 00:37:02,574
this massive spreadsheet, and then we actually had

1007
00:37:02,574 --> 00:37:04,480
to cut things down. Because if we we

1008
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,000
printed it all and put it all in,

1009
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,680
it would have been 200 pages. It would

1010
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:08,579
have been a book.

1011
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,119
So we had to sort of choose the

1012
00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:12,559
best of the best of the best, the

1013
00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,380
most interesting things. And as we pulled,

1014
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,579
content together, we realized that naturally,

1015
00:37:19,934 --> 00:37:23,155
all the content divided up into three sections

1016
00:37:23,295 --> 00:37:25,215
that with a little bit of whimsy, we

1017
00:37:25,215 --> 00:37:27,394
decided to call quantum history,

1018
00:37:27,934 --> 00:37:31,135
quantum mystery, and quantum industry. And then, of

1019
00:37:31,135 --> 00:37:32,760
course, there's a bit of science and culture

1020
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,679
because we like science and culture, and we

1021
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:36,300
think that's a key part of,

1022
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:38,380
the scientific process.

1023
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,500
So that that's sort of the sections,

1024
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:43,820
that it covers. Obviously, history

1025
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,525
looks back at,

1026
00:37:46,484 --> 00:37:47,864
some key people,

1027
00:37:48,724 --> 00:37:51,525
who were pivotal in the discovery of quantum

1028
00:37:51,525 --> 00:37:52,025
mechanics.

1029
00:37:52,804 --> 00:37:55,364
Quite a fun feature that starts out on

1030
00:37:55,364 --> 00:37:57,625
the island of Helgoland, which is sort of

1031
00:37:57,844 --> 00:38:00,244
where it all began a hundred years ago,

1032
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:02,960
the island on which Heisenberg

1033
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:05,679
sort of went to recover from his blistering

1034
00:38:05,739 --> 00:38:06,960
hay fever and

1035
00:38:07,340 --> 00:38:09,519
sort of wrote down the mathematical

1036
00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:12,320
matrix equations of of quantum mechanics.

1037
00:38:13,579 --> 00:38:16,385
What's really fun is that Helgoland was

1038
00:38:17,085 --> 00:38:18,144
the site for,

1039
00:38:18,765 --> 00:38:20,545
the hundred year anniversary conference,

1040
00:38:21,485 --> 00:38:22,864
the Helgoland conference.

1041
00:38:23,804 --> 00:38:26,364
A week ago, and Nitin Drani, who is

1042
00:38:26,364 --> 00:38:26,864
editor,

1043
00:38:27,324 --> 00:38:30,000
of Physics World, editor in chief, He managed

1044
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,699
to go along to this conference,

1045
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,019
and, I would definitely

1046
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,199
recommend reading his blogs on sort of all

1047
00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:39,380
the things that they discussed that look back

1048
00:38:39,519 --> 00:38:41,940
at a hundred years of quantum mechanics and

1049
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,385
look forward at the next one hundred years.

1050
00:38:44,385 --> 00:38:46,385
Is that was that a big argument in

1051
00:38:46,385 --> 00:38:48,545
the physics world office as who was going

1052
00:38:48,545 --> 00:38:49,844
to get to go to that one?

1053
00:38:51,025 --> 00:38:52,945
Well, it's funny you say that, but do

1054
00:38:52,945 --> 00:38:55,425
you know what? This this island is really

1055
00:38:55,425 --> 00:38:57,664
a tiny island off the coast of Germany.

1056
00:38:57,664 --> 00:38:58,889
It's really not built

1057
00:38:59,369 --> 00:39:01,309
for, you know, a huge amount of physicists

1058
00:39:01,369 --> 00:39:04,329
to land up. And so very quickly, what

1059
00:39:04,329 --> 00:39:06,809
happened with the Helgoland conference was that every

1060
00:39:06,809 --> 00:39:09,049
possible location where you could stay on the

1061
00:39:09,049 --> 00:39:09,549
island

1062
00:39:09,929 --> 00:39:11,929
sold out. So they were asking people to

1063
00:39:11,929 --> 00:39:14,170
pair up and share rooms. And the final

1064
00:39:14,170 --> 00:39:14,670
option,

1065
00:39:15,105 --> 00:39:17,664
which I heard a couple of people did

1066
00:39:17,664 --> 00:39:20,405
succumb to, was to camp on the island.

1067
00:39:21,344 --> 00:39:24,545
And from Mateen's reporting, it was fairly cold

1068
00:39:24,545 --> 00:39:26,565
and windy, so not exactly

1069
00:39:27,505 --> 00:39:28,324
the dream,

1070
00:39:28,864 --> 00:39:30,480
holiday or anything. But

1071
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,960
as Mazin says in his final blog, he

1072
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,539
felt that he could really understand why Helgoland

1073
00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:37,380
was such a good place for thinking

1074
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,119
and coming up with amazing new ideas. So

1075
00:39:41,119 --> 00:39:41,699
if you're

1076
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,019
if you're looking for a place for inspiration

1077
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,260
and some bracing sea air,

1078
00:39:46,775 --> 00:39:49,094
perhaps Helgoland should be on your list now

1079
00:39:49,094 --> 00:39:51,494
that all the quantum physicists have on hand.

1080
00:39:51,494 --> 00:39:53,494
I've I've I've got maybe I'll take get

1081
00:39:53,494 --> 00:39:55,255
that painting somehow and take it with me.

1082
00:39:55,255 --> 00:39:56,215
I'll tell you what. I'll just take the

1083
00:39:56,215 --> 00:39:58,155
briefing. It's on the front cover of that.

1084
00:39:58,295 --> 00:39:59,894
Oh, well, there you go. So There you

1085
00:39:59,894 --> 00:40:01,575
go. Back at the history of it, if

1086
00:40:01,575 --> 00:40:03,069
we can do that first of all,

1087
00:40:04,030 --> 00:40:06,510
the other people in this story I asked

1088
00:40:06,510 --> 00:40:08,670
that question knowing the answer to it. But

1089
00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:10,349
other people in the history of the story

1090
00:40:10,349 --> 00:40:12,589
whose story hasn't been told and maybe should

1091
00:40:12,589 --> 00:40:13,250
have been?

1092
00:40:14,429 --> 00:40:15,409
Yes. Absolutely.

1093
00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:18,905
You know, obviously, everyone everyone knows of Heisenberg.

1094
00:40:19,204 --> 00:40:20,265
Everyone knows of

1095
00:40:20,724 --> 00:40:22,405
of Niels Bohr. By the way, there's a

1096
00:40:22,405 --> 00:40:24,485
great feature about Niels Bohr and something that

1097
00:40:24,485 --> 00:40:26,405
he got really wrong, which I really enjoy.

1098
00:40:26,405 --> 00:40:28,585
I really like it. Very clever people

1099
00:40:28,965 --> 00:40:30,824
come up with what they think were fantastic

1100
00:40:30,885 --> 00:40:33,119
ideas and then are very quickly proven wrong

1101
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,200
because it's always amazing to me how happy

1102
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,039
they are about that. They're always like, oh,

1103
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:38,099
well, try that,

1104
00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:41,119
but this is more exciting that I'm wrong.

1105
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:43,440
And so there's a great feature called when

1106
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:44,500
Bohr got it wrong.

1107
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,440
And I'll I'll leave you to read that

1108
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,135
to find out what exactly it was that

1109
00:40:49,135 --> 00:40:51,295
he proposed in the very early days of

1110
00:40:51,295 --> 00:40:54,494
quantum mechanics that was quickly proven wrong. But

1111
00:40:54,494 --> 00:40:56,574
the person you referred to, the sort of

1112
00:40:56,574 --> 00:40:57,554
missing person,

1113
00:40:58,494 --> 00:41:01,315
was this amazing German physicist and philosopher

1114
00:41:01,614 --> 00:41:03,315
by the name of Greta Hermann.

1115
00:41:03,890 --> 00:41:06,610
Now she was someone who was a true

1116
00:41:06,610 --> 00:41:07,110
contemporary

1117
00:41:07,489 --> 00:41:08,550
of of Heisenberg

1118
00:41:09,090 --> 00:41:10,949
and even John von Neumann.

1119
00:41:11,410 --> 00:41:14,369
And so she was sort of very active

1120
00:41:14,369 --> 00:41:16,390
in those early days. And she

1121
00:41:16,835 --> 00:41:19,154
because she was a philosopher and not just

1122
00:41:19,154 --> 00:41:19,894
a physicist,

1123
00:41:20,355 --> 00:41:23,174
she had some very certain interesting ideas

1124
00:41:23,795 --> 00:41:24,295
about

1125
00:41:24,674 --> 00:41:25,654
quantum fundamentals

1126
00:41:26,514 --> 00:41:28,375
at a time when they were really discussing,

1127
00:41:28,434 --> 00:41:30,880
you know, whether you you were in Boer's

1128
00:41:31,099 --> 00:41:33,360
camp or or Einstein's camp, etcetera.

1129
00:41:34,539 --> 00:41:36,460
And she sort of proposed some of the

1130
00:41:36,460 --> 00:41:38,400
things that we later attribute

1131
00:41:39,340 --> 00:41:39,840
completely

1132
00:41:40,539 --> 00:41:42,885
to von Neumann was actually things that

1133
00:41:43,844 --> 00:41:46,724
she had suggested or talked about or even

1134
00:41:46,724 --> 00:41:49,764
proved much earlier than he had. But, you

1135
00:41:49,764 --> 00:41:52,324
know, because she was a very, highly trained

1136
00:41:52,324 --> 00:41:52,824
mathematician.

1137
00:41:53,204 --> 00:41:54,264
So she actually

1138
00:41:54,804 --> 00:41:57,239
used her skills and training to point out

1139
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,420
some early flaws in von Neumann's

1140
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,360
early proofs that there were these no hidden

1141
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:03,579
variable theories,

1142
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,639
etcetera. And so she came up with some

1143
00:42:05,639 --> 00:42:07,960
great responses to that, but no one you

1144
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,719
know, she sparred with von Neumann, but no

1145
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,659
one really knows about her today.

1146
00:42:13,738 --> 00:42:15,204
After the the war, she sort of went

1147
00:42:15,204 --> 00:42:17,445
off and did some quite different things because

1148
00:42:17,445 --> 00:42:19,945
she was interested. She was a free thinker.

1149
00:42:20,005 --> 00:42:21,785
She was, you know, working with the unions

1150
00:42:21,844 --> 00:42:23,144
and things like that.

1151
00:42:23,525 --> 00:42:26,005
But she had these really great ideas about

1152
00:42:26,005 --> 00:42:26,505
quantum

1153
00:42:27,150 --> 00:42:27,650
causality,

1154
00:42:28,510 --> 00:42:30,510
and things like that. And so her legacy

1155
00:42:30,510 --> 00:42:32,609
is something that we really wanted to highlight

1156
00:42:32,909 --> 00:42:34,049
in our history.

1157
00:42:34,349 --> 00:42:36,289
Can I ask you a very silly question?

1158
00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:38,589
Why is she not more well known? Why

1159
00:42:38,589 --> 00:42:39,069
was the

1160
00:42:39,710 --> 00:42:40,530
Oh, I mean,

1161
00:42:40,909 --> 00:42:41,730
oh, Andrew.

1162
00:42:42,585 --> 00:42:43,244
I feel

1163
00:42:44,264 --> 00:42:45,405
like I feel like, unfortunately,

1164
00:42:45,784 --> 00:42:47,784
there is this you know, it's it's almost

1165
00:42:47,784 --> 00:42:49,704
a term that we now know called hidden

1166
00:42:49,704 --> 00:42:52,125
figures, and and you almost consistently,

1167
00:42:52,505 --> 00:42:53,244
those figures

1168
00:42:53,625 --> 00:42:54,284
are women

1169
00:42:54,585 --> 00:42:57,324
or or people from other minority backgrounds

1170
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,420
who sort of played such key roles

1171
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:02,579
in so much of

1172
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:04,099
the fundamental

1173
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,280
development of science over eons, and they just

1174
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,440
got written out because they were the wrong

1175
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,244
kind of people to be in those stories

1176
00:43:12,304 --> 00:43:14,864
and or they just didn't shout loud enough

1177
00:43:14,864 --> 00:43:17,105
or they just didn't have a platform for

1178
00:43:17,105 --> 00:43:18,085
it. And, unfortunately,

1179
00:43:19,025 --> 00:43:21,585
you know, it's sort of it's almost sort

1180
00:43:21,585 --> 00:43:23,744
of happening again now while we haven't even

1181
00:43:23,744 --> 00:43:25,505
got all of those hidden figures out and

1182
00:43:25,505 --> 00:43:27,059
and women are being written out of the

1183
00:43:27,059 --> 00:43:27,960
story again,

1184
00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:29,480
unfortunately,

1185
00:43:30,180 --> 00:43:31,880
in The US right now. But

1186
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:35,300
so, yeah, I mean, it's quite sad that

1187
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:36,039
we're still

1188
00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:38,119
finding these amazing people.

1189
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:41,000
But, hopefully, all these stories will be told

1190
00:43:41,364 --> 00:43:42,184
and appreciated.

1191
00:43:43,125 --> 00:43:43,625
Yes.

1192
00:43:44,885 --> 00:43:45,385
Absolutely.

1193
00:43:46,244 --> 00:43:48,244
I can't quite believe it's happening again. But,

1194
00:43:48,405 --> 00:43:49,305
that's the history.

1195
00:43:49,684 --> 00:43:51,765
Can we turn now to the mystery, not

1196
00:43:51,765 --> 00:43:53,605
just the mystery of why the the people

1197
00:43:53,605 --> 00:43:55,864
I've talked about more who were so instrumental

1198
00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:58,049
in it, but the mystery of the science.

1199
00:43:58,049 --> 00:43:59,190
Absolutely. Yeah.

1200
00:43:59,889 --> 00:44:01,730
So quite often, when we talk about quantum

1201
00:44:01,730 --> 00:44:04,869
mechanics, people refer to things like

1202
00:44:05,329 --> 00:44:06,789
quantum and, you know, entanglement,

1203
00:44:07,569 --> 00:44:10,275
this idea that you you can have quantum

1204
00:44:10,275 --> 00:44:13,414
particles that are inherently linked to one another

1205
00:44:13,795 --> 00:44:15,894
even if they're nowhere in the same

1206
00:44:16,514 --> 00:44:18,275
space and, you know, this can be across

1207
00:44:18,275 --> 00:44:18,934
the universe,

1208
00:44:19,714 --> 00:44:20,855
or or superposition

1209
00:44:21,234 --> 00:44:23,315
where different quantum states are all at the

1210
00:44:23,315 --> 00:44:25,414
same sort of happening at the same time.

1211
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,239
And these are these quantum effects that are

1212
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,179
deemed so weird and strange,

1213
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:31,300
but, actually,

1214
00:44:31,839 --> 00:44:34,079
there are a number those concepts have been

1215
00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:36,000
around now for a hundred years, and they're

1216
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,760
pretty well understood. We test them in the

1217
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,839
lab. We do experiments with them. We use

1218
00:44:39,839 --> 00:44:40,900
them all the time.

1219
00:44:41,484 --> 00:44:43,964
But there's these other quantum effects that have

1220
00:44:43,964 --> 00:44:46,364
maybe been discovered a bit later that are

1221
00:44:46,364 --> 00:44:48,525
even stranger. They're even weirder. And the way

1222
00:44:48,525 --> 00:44:50,684
we see it is that they're so odd

1223
00:44:50,684 --> 00:44:54,125
that they make superposition and entanglement seem almost

1224
00:44:54,125 --> 00:44:54,625
ordinary.

1225
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,119
So that's what we kind of wanted to

1226
00:44:57,119 --> 00:44:58,579
highlight through this,

1227
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,339
International Year of Quantum.

1228
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,719
And we've got the first three of these

1229
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:03,219
effects,

1230
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,480
in the guide. The first one is the

1231
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:06,980
quantum

1232
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:08,260
Zeno effect.

1233
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,154
Then we have quantum Cheshire cats, and then

1234
00:45:11,154 --> 00:45:14,594
we have the quantum eraser delayed choice effect,

1235
00:45:14,594 --> 00:45:15,494
which are all

1236
00:45:15,795 --> 00:45:16,934
pretty mysterious.

1237
00:45:17,234 --> 00:45:19,234
Yeah. Yes. They are. But but to a

1238
00:45:19,234 --> 00:45:21,315
certain extent, I wonder if some of these

1239
00:45:21,315 --> 00:45:23,154
things do require a bit of time with

1240
00:45:23,154 --> 00:45:26,050
reading in order to, you know, really grasp

1241
00:45:26,050 --> 00:45:28,849
them Yes. Rather than just hearing about them

1242
00:45:28,849 --> 00:45:31,489
on a podcast, I think. Yeah. I think

1243
00:45:31,489 --> 00:45:33,969
these are what we kind of what we

1244
00:45:33,969 --> 00:45:36,210
think of as lean forward articles. You have

1245
00:45:36,210 --> 00:45:38,230
to pay a little bit of attention and

1246
00:45:38,505 --> 00:45:40,984
stay with us to learn something truly mind

1247
00:45:40,984 --> 00:45:41,484
boggling.

1248
00:45:41,944 --> 00:45:43,944
Okay. So I'm gonna pick one of them.

1249
00:45:44,184 --> 00:45:45,304
And you could just shout at me if

1250
00:45:45,304 --> 00:45:46,505
it's the wrong one to pick, but I'll

1251
00:45:46,505 --> 00:45:47,724
just pick one of them.

1252
00:45:48,184 --> 00:45:50,025
And I'm gonna pick this one, but largely

1253
00:45:50,025 --> 00:45:51,484
because I was born in Cheshire.

1254
00:45:51,944 --> 00:45:53,565
The Quantum Cheshire Cat.

1255
00:45:54,599 --> 00:45:56,300
Absolutely. One of my favorites.

1256
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,519
And it also happens to me the same

1257
00:45:58,519 --> 00:46:01,400
feature is also in the Jude issue of

1258
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,720
Physics World, and it's on the cover. So

1259
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:05,320
you have all these lovely cats on the

1260
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,019
cover. It's a very exciting cover.

1261
00:46:07,525 --> 00:46:09,364
Just a quick aside here because there are

1262
00:46:09,364 --> 00:46:10,664
some wonderful illustrations,

1263
00:46:10,965 --> 00:46:13,204
not only on the front cover of Physics

1264
00:46:13,204 --> 00:46:15,284
World magazine, but in the quantum briefing to

1265
00:46:15,284 --> 00:46:16,105
go alongside

1266
00:46:16,804 --> 00:46:17,945
some of these wonderful

1267
00:46:18,485 --> 00:46:20,750
stories of quantum physics. So I do recommend

1268
00:46:20,750 --> 00:46:22,909
if you're interested in that kind of cross

1269
00:46:22,909 --> 00:46:24,909
section between science and art we've been talking

1270
00:46:24,909 --> 00:46:28,050
about to delve into both the magazine

1271
00:46:28,429 --> 00:46:29,730
and the Quantum Briefing.

1272
00:46:30,030 --> 00:46:31,090
Back to Tushnet.

1273
00:46:32,184 --> 00:46:36,105
Quantum Cheshire cats. Truly, truly mind boggling stuff.

1274
00:46:36,105 --> 00:46:36,605
So

1275
00:46:36,905 --> 00:46:38,585
for those of you who've read Alice in

1276
00:46:38,585 --> 00:46:41,324
Wonderland, you'll be familiar with the Cheshire cat,

1277
00:46:41,784 --> 00:46:44,025
that has does this amazing thing where it

1278
00:46:44,025 --> 00:46:47,005
slowly disappears, leaving behind its grin.

1279
00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:49,230
The grin is the last thing that disappears,

1280
00:46:49,230 --> 00:46:51,309
and Alice sort of says that I've often

1281
00:46:51,309 --> 00:46:53,309
seen a cat without a grin, but a

1282
00:46:53,309 --> 00:46:55,230
grin without a cat, that is the most

1283
00:46:55,230 --> 00:46:57,170
curious thing I ever saw in my life.

1284
00:46:58,510 --> 00:46:59,730
And so I'm

1285
00:47:00,945 --> 00:47:02,625
in in the eighties, there were a bunch

1286
00:47:02,625 --> 00:47:05,285
of physicists who who perhaps thought very deeply

1287
00:47:05,345 --> 00:47:06,885
about grinning cats.

1288
00:47:08,465 --> 00:47:11,765
And so they put forward this really crazy

1289
00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:13,360
proposition

1290
00:47:13,900 --> 00:47:15,980
in the early nineteen eighties. This was,

1291
00:47:16,380 --> 00:47:17,440
Yakir Aronov,

1292
00:47:18,380 --> 00:47:19,280
Sandu Provasku,

1293
00:47:19,820 --> 00:47:20,300
and,

1294
00:47:21,579 --> 00:47:22,079
colleagues.

1295
00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:23,119
And they

1296
00:47:23,820 --> 00:47:26,005
came up with this suggestion that they said

1297
00:47:26,005 --> 00:47:28,585
that because of the way quantum properties

1298
00:47:28,885 --> 00:47:30,724
are of of a certain particle. So if

1299
00:47:30,724 --> 00:47:31,704
you look at

1300
00:47:32,164 --> 00:47:34,985
a particle such as a photon, now photons,

1301
00:47:35,125 --> 00:47:36,344
particles of light,

1302
00:47:37,139 --> 00:47:39,719
they have polarization. We all know what polarization

1303
00:47:40,099 --> 00:47:40,760
is. Right?

1304
00:47:41,219 --> 00:47:41,719
So

1305
00:47:42,819 --> 00:47:46,280
they found that you could have a quantum

1306
00:47:46,420 --> 00:47:47,639
particle, a photon's

1307
00:47:48,019 --> 00:47:48,519
polarization

1308
00:47:49,139 --> 00:47:52,039
in a completely different physical location

1309
00:47:52,835 --> 00:47:54,855
from the actual particle itself.

1310
00:47:55,635 --> 00:47:57,414
So like the Cheshire cat,

1311
00:47:57,795 --> 00:48:00,194
the grin is separate from the cat, and

1312
00:48:00,194 --> 00:48:01,974
so the photons' polarization

1313
00:48:02,755 --> 00:48:03,574
is actually

1314
00:48:03,875 --> 00:48:06,994
in a physically separate location from the photon

1315
00:48:06,994 --> 00:48:08,099
itself. What?

1316
00:48:09,059 --> 00:48:10,680
Yeah. I know. I know.

1317
00:48:11,460 --> 00:48:12,980
And the crazy thing is that they came

1318
00:48:12,980 --> 00:48:14,840
up with this almost like a sort of

1319
00:48:14,980 --> 00:48:15,880
thought experiment

1320
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:17,619
in the early eighties.

1321
00:48:17,940 --> 00:48:19,780
This this it was an idea, a concept

1322
00:48:19,780 --> 00:48:22,054
that they said that, you know, if if

1323
00:48:22,054 --> 00:48:24,795
you make, a measurement on a quantum system,

1324
00:48:25,174 --> 00:48:27,255
it collapses the system. You know, it's when

1325
00:48:27,255 --> 00:48:28,474
you have a certain

1326
00:48:29,174 --> 00:48:29,674
entanglement

1327
00:48:29,974 --> 00:48:30,875
or a certain position.

1328
00:48:31,255 --> 00:48:32,855
You make a measurement. You sort of poke

1329
00:48:32,855 --> 00:48:35,109
the system, and it causes the system to

1330
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:37,829
change immediately because quantum systems don't like being

1331
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:38,329
watched.

1332
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:40,710
And so you, you know, then you find

1333
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:42,070
out it's like open the box and you

1334
00:48:42,070 --> 00:48:43,769
find out the cat is dead or alive.

1335
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:45,130
I was Schrodinger. Right?

1336
00:48:45,590 --> 00:48:48,554
But there's this there's this amazing idea. So

1337
00:48:48,554 --> 00:48:50,574
so that's what you call a very definitive

1338
00:48:50,635 --> 00:48:53,275
measurement, but there's this phenomenal concept in quantum

1339
00:48:53,275 --> 00:48:54,894
mechanics called weak measurements.

1340
00:48:55,355 --> 00:48:58,574
So that's like not fully opening the box,

1341
00:48:58,795 --> 00:49:00,474
not opening it all the way and letting

1342
00:49:00,474 --> 00:49:02,074
all the, you know, light out to see

1343
00:49:02,074 --> 00:49:03,890
if there's definitely a dead cat. But what

1344
00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:06,130
if you did something like just a teeny

1345
00:49:06,130 --> 00:49:08,289
tiny little peak, sort of look from the

1346
00:49:08,289 --> 00:49:10,309
corner of your eye without really looking?

1347
00:49:10,690 --> 00:49:11,190
So

1348
00:49:11,490 --> 00:49:14,450
that's what physicists called weak measurements. So that's

1349
00:49:14,450 --> 00:49:16,769
where you do sort of a series of

1350
00:49:16,769 --> 00:49:19,025
very gentle pokes on a system,

1351
00:49:19,324 --> 00:49:21,484
and you keep measuring those. You you make

1352
00:49:21,484 --> 00:49:23,025
these tiny, tiny, tiny measurements,

1353
00:49:23,405 --> 00:49:25,244
and then you add up the sum of

1354
00:49:25,244 --> 00:49:28,385
this measurement to get a sort of coherent

1355
00:49:28,605 --> 00:49:31,744
answer by doing these tiny, tiny, gentle pokes.

1356
00:49:32,525 --> 00:49:33,025
So

1357
00:49:33,890 --> 00:49:35,969
this this concept of weak measurements was sort

1358
00:49:35,969 --> 00:49:38,610
of a radical idea in quantum mechanics when

1359
00:49:38,610 --> 00:49:41,329
it happened. And so so they realized that

1360
00:49:41,329 --> 00:49:43,349
if you set up you do a certain

1361
00:49:43,410 --> 00:49:43,910
series

1362
00:49:44,450 --> 00:49:46,150
of sort of what they call preselection

1363
00:49:46,530 --> 00:49:47,030
criteria

1364
00:49:47,434 --> 00:49:49,034
to set up a photon, and then you

1365
00:49:49,034 --> 00:49:50,414
put it through a beam splitter,

1366
00:49:51,034 --> 00:49:53,215
send it, you know, do do the standard

1367
00:49:53,275 --> 00:49:55,835
sort of interferometry that we do with photons,

1368
00:49:55,835 --> 00:49:57,994
you know, to check, then you get a

1369
00:49:57,994 --> 00:50:00,715
system where the photon ends up in one

1370
00:50:00,715 --> 00:50:02,974
arm of the beam splitter and the polarization

1371
00:50:03,420 --> 00:50:05,579
is in the other arm. And then you

1372
00:50:05,579 --> 00:50:07,579
can put the two bits back together and

1373
00:50:07,579 --> 00:50:09,359
do some really crazy things.

1374
00:50:10,059 --> 00:50:10,559
Is

1375
00:50:11,019 --> 00:50:13,179
this actually been tested then, is it? It

1376
00:50:13,179 --> 00:50:15,500
has indeed, and we do these experiments all

1377
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:17,980
the time, which is just crazy. They've they've

1378
00:50:18,574 --> 00:50:20,734
so from when it was proposed and it's

1379
00:50:20,734 --> 00:50:23,134
been done in different systems even. That's the

1380
00:50:23,134 --> 00:50:24,674
that's the amazing part.

1381
00:50:25,054 --> 00:50:25,795
And now

1382
00:50:26,094 --> 00:50:26,835
what people

1383
00:50:27,454 --> 00:50:29,775
are actually studying and looking at is the

1384
00:50:29,775 --> 00:50:30,275
interpretation.

1385
00:50:30,654 --> 00:50:32,494
So what does this mean? What does it

1386
00:50:32,494 --> 00:50:34,329
mean if you can do these weak measurements?

1387
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:36,010
What does it mean if you can separate

1388
00:50:37,269 --> 00:50:39,769
these these things? How does it impact things

1389
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:42,710
like, you know, the this concept of hidden

1390
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:44,730
variables? Is there some hidden information

1391
00:50:45,525 --> 00:50:46,585
within these systems,

1392
00:50:46,885 --> 00:50:48,644
or is there something you know, how does

1393
00:50:48,644 --> 00:50:50,804
it all work? And what I really like,

1394
00:50:50,804 --> 00:50:52,565
I'll say this. So this feature was written

1395
00:50:52,565 --> 00:50:55,284
for us by, Julia Georgescu, who is one

1396
00:50:55,284 --> 00:50:57,224
of my colleagues at the IOP in London.

1397
00:50:57,844 --> 00:51:00,105
And she came up with this really

1398
00:51:00,405 --> 00:51:01,019
sort of

1399
00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:02,880
fun idea of,

1400
00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:06,219
cats at a pachinko parlor in Japan. So

1401
00:51:06,219 --> 00:51:07,420
I don't know if you ever heard of

1402
00:51:07,420 --> 00:51:09,579
pachinko. It's, you know, like a slot machine,

1403
00:51:09,579 --> 00:51:11,659
a jackpot thing that they have. And the

1404
00:51:11,659 --> 00:51:13,820
reason why pachinko works really well is that

1405
00:51:13,820 --> 00:51:14,719
in pachinko,

1406
00:51:15,420 --> 00:51:16,320
you have this

1407
00:51:16,655 --> 00:51:18,974
preselection so that the balls that drop from

1408
00:51:18,974 --> 00:51:20,195
the top are in a certain

1409
00:51:21,054 --> 00:51:23,875
spaces, and there is a criteria that determines

1410
00:51:24,655 --> 00:51:26,994
how they will fall through the machine. So

1411
00:51:27,135 --> 00:51:29,480
she has this idea of cats are in

1412
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,019
this pachinko machine, and

1413
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,559
as they go through, you know, you have

1414
00:51:33,559 --> 00:51:35,480
the beam splitter and the the sort of

1415
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,819
the cat is on on one end and

1416
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:40,039
the the the chair that you sit on

1417
00:51:40,039 --> 00:51:41,204
to play these slots

1418
00:51:41,605 --> 00:51:43,285
has the grin. So the cat is on

1419
00:51:43,285 --> 00:51:45,045
the machine and the grin is on the

1420
00:51:45,045 --> 00:51:47,684
chair. And so it's an interesting way of

1421
00:51:47,684 --> 00:51:49,925
thinking of this very curious phenomenon. And and,

1422
00:51:49,925 --> 00:51:50,585
you know, I mentioned photons,

1423
00:51:51,844 --> 00:51:52,344
but

1424
00:51:53,250 --> 00:51:56,243
same thing happens with any quantum particle, really.

1425
00:51:56,243 --> 00:51:59,236
So with an electron, you can do the

1426
00:51:59,236 --> 00:52:02,229
same thing with its charge. With a neutron,

1427
00:52:02,229 --> 00:52:05,222
it's it's magnetic moment. And with an atom,

1428
00:52:05,222 --> 00:52:05,971
it's the,

1429
00:52:06,505 --> 00:52:08,744
inertial energy of the atom. So we've tested

1430
00:52:08,744 --> 00:52:10,284
it across all these platforms.

1431
00:52:10,744 --> 00:52:11,565
So, yeah,

1432
00:52:12,505 --> 00:52:14,505
crazy stuff. I don't know if this is

1433
00:52:14,505 --> 00:52:16,125
a silly question. Right? But

1434
00:52:16,425 --> 00:52:16,925
it

1435
00:52:17,385 --> 00:52:20,059
feels to me like we're sort of peeping

1436
00:52:20,119 --> 00:52:22,119
into this world. You know, you peep there's

1437
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:23,880
that kind of peep but we're peeping into

1438
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,360
this world. And is it is it possible

1439
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,280
that the reason why these things are happening

1440
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,519
is just purely because we're peeping into it

1441
00:52:30,519 --> 00:52:31,980
and there are connections

1442
00:52:32,355 --> 00:52:34,034
that would make total sense if you were

1443
00:52:34,034 --> 00:52:36,594
in it, but because we're sort of peeping

1444
00:52:36,594 --> 00:52:37,255
at it.

1445
00:52:37,954 --> 00:52:39,715
I mean, that is that is a big

1446
00:52:39,715 --> 00:52:41,094
question. That is this

1447
00:52:41,474 --> 00:52:43,875
fundamental, you know, one of those that's that's

1448
00:52:43,875 --> 00:52:46,534
also something else that's really interesting that hopefully,

1449
00:52:47,869 --> 00:52:49,550
we'll get some answers to words. They say

1450
00:52:49,550 --> 00:52:50,910
now physics world live,

1451
00:52:51,309 --> 00:52:53,550
that will be published by the time you

1452
00:52:53,550 --> 00:52:54,690
listen to this podcast.

1453
00:52:55,949 --> 00:52:58,750
This idea that there are these inherent quantum

1454
00:52:58,750 --> 00:53:00,989
fundamental questions that a hundred years later, we

1455
00:53:00,989 --> 00:53:03,864
really have no answers to. But what's interesting

1456
00:53:03,864 --> 00:53:05,404
is that we now technologically

1457
00:53:05,704 --> 00:53:08,264
advance so much. The fact that we can

1458
00:53:08,264 --> 00:53:10,284
have entangled states between,

1459
00:53:11,065 --> 00:53:12,924
an atom in the lab and an atom,

1460
00:53:13,304 --> 00:53:15,304
up in space. Right? We've done it. We're

1461
00:53:15,304 --> 00:53:17,724
seeing it. We're still not quite sure what's

1462
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:20,640
how and what. So these interpretations

1463
00:53:21,099 --> 00:53:22,940
of it is what physicists are still trying

1464
00:53:22,940 --> 00:53:24,320
to figure out. But there's

1465
00:53:24,780 --> 00:53:26,699
this really, we're in a great position where

1466
00:53:26,699 --> 00:53:28,780
we can use the technology that we have

1467
00:53:28,780 --> 00:53:29,920
today to probe

1468
00:53:30,344 --> 00:53:31,085
these fundamental

1469
00:53:31,465 --> 00:53:33,704
questions and try and figure out. So there

1470
00:53:33,704 --> 00:53:35,784
is a big question about the act of

1471
00:53:35,784 --> 00:53:36,844
measurement itself

1472
00:53:37,625 --> 00:53:40,125
in quantum mechanics, the act of observation

1473
00:53:40,585 --> 00:53:42,605
itself in quantum mechanics and

1474
00:53:43,150 --> 00:53:45,070
the role that plays. And that's sort of

1475
00:53:45,070 --> 00:53:47,389
what Bohr and Einstein were arguing about from

1476
00:53:47,389 --> 00:53:49,409
the start. And we still don't have

1477
00:53:49,869 --> 00:53:52,030
a very definitive answer. We do all these

1478
00:53:52,030 --> 00:53:54,449
experiments, but we still can't quite

1479
00:53:55,309 --> 00:53:56,769
explain how and why.

1480
00:53:57,094 --> 00:53:59,014
And that actually I won't go into it

1481
00:53:59,014 --> 00:54:00,775
in too much detail because it is really

1482
00:54:00,775 --> 00:54:03,014
mind boggling and I recommend you read the

1483
00:54:03,014 --> 00:54:05,734
article. But it brings us quite nicely to

1484
00:54:05,734 --> 00:54:08,375
the third effect in the feature in the

1485
00:54:08,375 --> 00:54:10,315
in the briefing, which is the quantum

1486
00:54:10,650 --> 00:54:13,230
eraser or the quantum eraser and the delayed

1487
00:54:13,289 --> 00:54:14,349
choice experiment

1488
00:54:14,969 --> 00:54:16,969
as it is called. And that's this crazy

1489
00:54:16,969 --> 00:54:19,069
thing of, you know, most of us

1490
00:54:19,369 --> 00:54:20,349
when you're at university,

1491
00:54:21,049 --> 00:54:23,210
you learn about the double slit experiments. If

1492
00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:24,969
you have a single light source, you send

1493
00:54:24,969 --> 00:54:25,630
a photon

1494
00:54:26,034 --> 00:54:28,034
towards a double slit that is really quite

1495
00:54:28,034 --> 00:54:28,534
tiny.

1496
00:54:29,235 --> 00:54:31,414
Even though it's a single photon because

1497
00:54:31,715 --> 00:54:33,574
light occasionally acts like a wave,

1498
00:54:34,355 --> 00:54:36,755
it's sort of that single photon passes through

1499
00:54:36,755 --> 00:54:38,994
both of the slits. And if you have

1500
00:54:38,994 --> 00:54:40,769
a screen at the other side of it,

1501
00:54:40,929 --> 00:54:43,570
you see this amazing interference pattern. So the

1502
00:54:43,570 --> 00:54:45,429
photon has interfered with itself.

1503
00:54:46,050 --> 00:54:48,289
But the crazy thing is that if you

1504
00:54:48,289 --> 00:54:50,789
have that very same setup, but now

1505
00:54:51,090 --> 00:54:52,949
you put some kind of detector

1506
00:54:53,250 --> 00:54:56,309
on each individual slit so you can measure

1507
00:54:56,885 --> 00:54:57,385
which

1508
00:54:57,844 --> 00:55:00,484
slit that atom goes through. The minute you

1509
00:55:00,484 --> 00:55:02,585
measure, you record that information,

1510
00:55:03,284 --> 00:55:05,144
the interference pattern disappears.

1511
00:55:06,164 --> 00:55:09,204
The the the yeah. The light refuses to

1512
00:55:09,204 --> 00:55:10,644
let you know what it's gone. It goes,

1513
00:55:10,644 --> 00:55:12,579
no. No. If if you do that, I'm

1514
00:55:12,579 --> 00:55:14,019
not doing it. I'm going through one or

1515
00:55:14,019 --> 00:55:15,619
the other. And so it just turns into

1516
00:55:15,619 --> 00:55:18,260
that Those dark and light bands disappear. And

1517
00:55:18,260 --> 00:55:19,699
this is something you do in the lab

1518
00:55:19,699 --> 00:55:22,340
and it's it's crazy. It's like how does

1519
00:55:22,340 --> 00:55:24,885
it know? So that that in itself is

1520
00:55:24,885 --> 00:55:26,664
this the role of the observer,

1521
00:55:26,965 --> 00:55:28,184
right, and and what

1522
00:55:28,565 --> 00:55:29,625
this information

1523
00:55:30,724 --> 00:55:33,765
that is how how crucial information is in

1524
00:55:33,765 --> 00:55:34,744
quantum systems.

1525
00:55:35,204 --> 00:55:37,525
But then to make things really, really mind

1526
00:55:37,525 --> 00:55:39,650
boggling, the point of the quantum eraser

1527
00:55:40,030 --> 00:55:40,769
is that

1528
00:55:41,630 --> 00:55:42,449
once again,

1529
00:55:42,750 --> 00:55:43,889
if you sort of

1530
00:55:44,190 --> 00:55:47,010
delay the choice so what if you don't

1531
00:55:47,469 --> 00:55:47,969
measure

1532
00:55:48,510 --> 00:55:49,489
at the slit

1533
00:55:49,789 --> 00:55:51,869
which slit it goes through, but you somehow

1534
00:55:51,869 --> 00:55:52,609
have something

1535
00:55:52,989 --> 00:55:54,130
past the slit

1536
00:55:54,695 --> 00:55:56,394
that measures the interference.

1537
00:55:57,094 --> 00:55:59,414
And then it kind of tries and looks

1538
00:55:59,414 --> 00:55:59,914
at

1539
00:56:00,295 --> 00:56:02,775
what's coming from the left hand side slit

1540
00:56:02,775 --> 00:56:04,614
versus the right hand slide. So and, again,

1541
00:56:04,614 --> 00:56:06,855
brings us to these weak measurements. So you

1542
00:56:06,855 --> 00:56:08,534
look at it weekly and you add it

1543
00:56:08,534 --> 00:56:08,969
up,

1544
00:56:09,449 --> 00:56:12,030
then you get that interference pattern back up.

1545
00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:15,050
So it's this idea of what if you

1546
00:56:15,050 --> 00:56:15,550
delay

1547
00:56:16,090 --> 00:56:17,710
the choice of measuring it.

1548
00:56:18,329 --> 00:56:20,570
And what's truly mind boggling with that, the

1549
00:56:20,570 --> 00:56:22,489
sort of why we're talking about, does it

1550
00:56:22,489 --> 00:56:23,565
rewrite the past?

1551
00:56:24,045 --> 00:56:27,264
Because this very same concept of this so

1552
00:56:27,644 --> 00:56:28,944
so John Wheeler,

1553
00:56:30,125 --> 00:56:31,184
the very famous

1554
00:56:31,644 --> 00:56:34,444
quantum physicist and and thinker, I would say,

1555
00:56:34,444 --> 00:56:35,699
he said that

1556
00:56:37,139 --> 00:56:39,380
so what if you take starlight from a

1557
00:56:39,380 --> 00:56:42,099
star that's millions of light years away and

1558
00:56:42,099 --> 00:56:44,920
you do this double slit experiment with it,

1559
00:56:44,980 --> 00:56:47,300
but then you you measure which slit is

1560
00:56:47,300 --> 00:56:50,045
going through? Are you are we saying that

1561
00:56:50,045 --> 00:56:52,444
we can control the starlight and what it

1562
00:56:52,444 --> 00:56:54,605
does? Are we making it change what it

1563
00:56:54,605 --> 00:56:55,105
did

1564
00:56:55,565 --> 00:56:57,824
in the past by measuring it

1565
00:56:58,125 --> 00:56:59,984
in the present? That's just

1566
00:57:00,525 --> 00:57:03,179
crazy. So so that was his big question.

1567
00:57:03,179 --> 00:57:04,880
He's like, what does that mean?

1568
00:57:05,980 --> 00:57:06,480
And

1569
00:57:06,940 --> 00:57:09,260
so I think what most scientists believe today

1570
00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:09,920
is that

1571
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:13,099
it isn't really this there is it isn't

1572
00:57:13,099 --> 00:57:15,840
that you're actually having a path and influence

1573
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:17,824
in the past or that you are rewriting

1574
00:57:17,885 --> 00:57:18,545
the past.

1575
00:57:18,925 --> 00:57:21,664
It's just that there is this truly quantum

1576
00:57:22,525 --> 00:57:23,025
inherently

1577
00:57:23,565 --> 00:57:24,784
quantum effect

1578
00:57:25,324 --> 00:57:26,545
or quantum correlation

1579
00:57:27,005 --> 00:57:29,485
that happens because of entanglement that we still

1580
00:57:29,485 --> 00:57:31,505
don't understand, but we just have to appreciate

1581
00:57:31,780 --> 00:57:33,880
that it is not something that we can

1582
00:57:34,180 --> 00:57:34,680
put

1583
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:38,099
as simply in classical terms as rewriting the

1584
00:57:38,099 --> 00:57:38,599
past.

1585
00:57:39,220 --> 00:57:41,559
And, again, that even that, there there's experiments

1586
00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:43,940
on this that people are doing and trying

1587
00:57:43,940 --> 00:57:45,480
to make more sense of

1588
00:57:46,545 --> 00:57:47,045
this

1589
00:57:47,344 --> 00:57:48,885
link between information,

1590
00:57:49,824 --> 00:57:50,324
observers,

1591
00:57:50,704 --> 00:57:53,344
and quantum competing even. So it's not all

1592
00:57:53,344 --> 00:57:55,905
just very esoteric thinking. It starts out that

1593
00:57:55,905 --> 00:57:59,125
way, but it always has quite practical implications.

1594
00:58:00,909 --> 00:58:03,070
Yeah. That's an interesting thing, isn't it? Because

1595
00:58:03,070 --> 00:58:05,789
I really recommend people do lean into that

1596
00:58:05,789 --> 00:58:08,190
and and read fully the article and really,

1597
00:58:08,190 --> 00:58:10,110
you know, get into it because Mhmm. I

1598
00:58:10,110 --> 00:58:11,789
don't know about you, but I find myself

1599
00:58:11,789 --> 00:58:13,710
looking at the news and the newspapers and

1600
00:58:13,710 --> 00:58:15,394
things, and I just I just find the

1601
00:58:15,394 --> 00:58:17,414
world a very odd place at the moment.

1602
00:58:17,474 --> 00:58:19,554
And it's much more fun to look into

1603
00:58:19,554 --> 00:58:21,795
something like this with my spare time than

1604
00:58:21,795 --> 00:58:23,474
it is to look into to the news.

1605
00:58:23,474 --> 00:58:24,534
But is there

1606
00:58:25,074 --> 00:58:25,974
a kind of,

1607
00:58:26,914 --> 00:58:28,440
application of this stuff?

1608
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,420
The applications of this in society, what

1609
00:58:31,719 --> 00:58:32,859
what other possible

1610
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,519
apart from just making me happier Yes. When

1611
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:38,679
I go to bed. Absolutely. So like I

1612
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:40,760
said, there there are hopefully I mean, from

1613
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:41,260
what

1614
00:58:42,195 --> 00:58:44,695
scientists and governments across the world are hoping

1615
00:58:44,835 --> 00:58:47,715
is that the sort of quantum renaissance will

1616
00:58:47,715 --> 00:58:49,735
have such a deep impact on our lives,

1617
00:58:50,434 --> 00:58:52,994
in the long term because, really, what you

1618
00:58:52,994 --> 00:58:53,655
can do

1619
00:58:54,035 --> 00:58:54,775
with quantum

1620
00:58:55,394 --> 00:58:57,894
computing, quantum sensors, and other quantum

1621
00:58:58,809 --> 00:58:59,250
technologies,

1622
00:58:59,690 --> 00:59:01,949
is is hopefully going to be wide ranging

1623
00:59:03,130 --> 00:59:06,089
and and truly amazing once we achieve it.

1624
00:59:06,089 --> 00:59:08,109
We could talk a bit about quantum computing,

1625
00:59:08,170 --> 00:59:10,569
but perhaps that's still something that's in the

1626
00:59:10,569 --> 00:59:12,190
making. We don't have

1627
00:59:12,644 --> 00:59:15,045
a definitive quantum computer, and that can do

1628
00:59:15,045 --> 00:59:17,304
something really useful as of now

1629
00:59:17,605 --> 00:59:20,005
that we can't do with classical computing. Our

1630
00:59:20,005 --> 00:59:21,125
sort of massive

1631
00:59:21,605 --> 00:59:24,085
you know, the bigger supercomputers that we have

1632
00:59:24,085 --> 00:59:26,724
still outperform what the best quantum computer can

1633
00:59:26,724 --> 00:59:29,110
do today. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't

1634
00:59:29,110 --> 00:59:31,210
be building towards it. And that's something

1635
00:59:31,590 --> 00:59:33,829
that we're gonna hopefully dig into in a

1636
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:35,909
big way in our second volume of the

1637
00:59:35,909 --> 00:59:38,230
quantum briefing that's gonna come later in the

1638
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:40,364
year. That's a little teaser for you. But

1639
00:59:40,364 --> 00:59:41,724
one of the things that I love to

1640
00:59:41,724 --> 00:59:44,385
talk about is the area of quantum sensors.

1641
00:59:45,405 --> 00:59:47,164
So we talked a little bit about how,

1642
00:59:47,164 --> 00:59:49,164
you know, quantum systems, you set it up

1643
00:59:49,164 --> 00:59:51,164
and then you measure it and it quickly

1644
00:59:51,164 --> 00:59:53,105
sort of collapses. You have this decoherence.

1645
00:59:53,644 --> 00:59:55,469
So they're extremely sensitive

1646
00:59:55,930 --> 00:59:56,829
to the environment.

1647
00:59:57,210 --> 00:59:59,450
And someone ages ago thought, wait a minute.

1648
00:59:59,450 --> 01:00:01,769
They're really, really sensitive to everything going on

1649
01:00:01,769 --> 01:00:04,010
around them. That could be a feature. It's

1650
01:00:04,010 --> 01:00:06,010
something that we've been taking as a as

1651
01:00:06,010 --> 01:00:07,450
a pain in the ass for all our

1652
01:00:07,450 --> 01:00:07,950
experiments.

1653
01:00:08,664 --> 01:00:09,404
But actually,

1654
01:00:10,184 --> 01:00:12,184
it's gonna be something that could be quite

1655
01:00:12,184 --> 01:00:14,364
useful. What if I try and use these

1656
01:00:14,424 --> 01:00:16,605
very sensitive things as a sensor?

1657
01:00:17,144 --> 01:00:19,464
And so that scenario of physics that, you

1658
01:00:19,464 --> 01:00:20,684
know, quantum sensors

1659
01:00:21,065 --> 01:00:21,565
are

1660
01:00:21,949 --> 01:00:24,349
way ahead in terms of they're being used

1661
01:00:24,349 --> 01:00:26,849
in real life already. They're out of

1662
01:00:27,230 --> 01:00:29,710
the labs and and and being tested in

1663
01:00:29,710 --> 01:00:31,329
many spaces. And,

1664
01:00:33,469 --> 01:00:35,730
Catherine Skipper, who was features editor,

1665
01:00:36,109 --> 01:00:38,534
with us for last year, she's written this

1666
01:00:38,534 --> 01:00:41,734
brilliant feature in the guide about quantum based

1667
01:00:41,734 --> 01:00:42,875
gravity sensors.

1668
01:00:43,414 --> 01:00:45,114
And that's really interesting because

1669
01:00:45,494 --> 01:00:48,155
really often, we need to look at things,

1670
01:00:49,255 --> 01:00:51,130
that are buried under ground. And this is

1671
01:00:51,130 --> 01:00:52,909
really important for construction

1672
01:00:53,289 --> 01:00:55,230
or anyone who's doing anything

1673
01:00:55,929 --> 01:00:58,250
that is underground and that's, you know, under

1674
01:00:58,250 --> 01:01:00,650
a road, in a residential area, under a

1675
01:01:00,650 --> 01:01:02,110
mountain, under the sea.

1676
01:01:02,744 --> 01:01:04,764
There's many options of that. And

1677
01:01:05,625 --> 01:01:06,525
we can use,

1678
01:01:07,304 --> 01:01:09,944
cold atom interferometry, which is this idea of

1679
01:01:09,944 --> 01:01:10,924
falling atoms

1680
01:01:11,304 --> 01:01:12,125
to to

1681
01:01:12,904 --> 01:01:15,780
test what's going on under the ground. And

1682
01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:17,619
you might say, well, there's plenty of ways

1683
01:01:17,619 --> 01:01:19,140
to test that. You know, you have radar

1684
01:01:19,140 --> 01:01:20,340
and this and that, and we have so

1685
01:01:20,340 --> 01:01:21,000
many things.

1686
01:01:21,380 --> 01:01:24,099
But the thing is whether whether you're doing

1687
01:01:24,099 --> 01:01:26,519
something for the government or you're a construction

1688
01:01:26,579 --> 01:01:28,664
firm trying to figure out what's going on

1689
01:01:28,905 --> 01:01:29,644
on a road.

1690
01:01:30,425 --> 01:01:32,664
Measurements for these kind of things can take

1691
01:01:32,664 --> 01:01:34,204
weeks and months sometimes.

1692
01:01:34,824 --> 01:01:37,065
They take really long. They're not as accurate

1693
01:01:37,065 --> 01:01:39,065
as you like them. And, you know, the

1694
01:01:39,065 --> 01:01:41,144
last thing you want is a road closed

1695
01:01:41,144 --> 01:01:42,989
for a month because they're just trying to

1696
01:01:42,989 --> 01:01:44,909
figure out where the water mains are. Or

1697
01:01:44,909 --> 01:01:46,590
worse, they've got it wrong and there's a

1698
01:01:46,590 --> 01:01:48,269
hole in your water pipe, and now your

1699
01:01:48,269 --> 01:01:49,890
road's closed and you have no water.

1700
01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:53,710
So that's some of the stuff that some

1701
01:01:53,710 --> 01:01:56,510
of these quantum sensors are looking at, these

1702
01:01:56,510 --> 01:01:59,494
gravity based quantum sensors. The University of Birmingham

1703
01:01:59,554 --> 01:02:00,454
has a huge,

1704
01:02:01,315 --> 01:02:05,155
team, a collaboration working on many different aspects

1705
01:02:05,155 --> 01:02:06,454
of this kind of stuff,

1706
01:02:07,714 --> 01:02:08,934
with quantum gravimeters.

1707
01:02:09,474 --> 01:02:11,809
I think it's some really fascinating stuff.

1708
01:02:12,190 --> 01:02:14,670
They've they've been testing it in exciting places

1709
01:02:14,670 --> 01:02:15,570
like an underground

1710
01:02:16,030 --> 01:02:17,809
cavern in the Peak District

1711
01:02:18,670 --> 01:02:20,590
and out at sea in the in out

1712
01:02:20,590 --> 01:02:21,970
at sea in the North Sea,

1713
01:02:22,674 --> 01:02:23,494
with the navy.

1714
01:02:23,875 --> 01:02:26,194
They've been testing, and that's all part of

1715
01:02:26,194 --> 01:02:29,234
The UK's quantum technology hub for sensors and

1716
01:02:29,234 --> 01:02:29,734
timing.

1717
01:02:30,434 --> 01:02:31,255
So it's

1718
01:02:31,554 --> 01:02:34,355
some amazing stuff that's already out there. The

1719
01:02:34,355 --> 01:02:36,135
the quantum is already being

1720
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:38,179
used in the real world.

1721
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:40,739
It's lovely, lovely stuff. I think,

1722
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,840
we should probably allow people to stop listening

1723
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,679
to this podcast and start reading the quantum

1724
01:02:45,679 --> 01:02:47,199
briefing. How do they do that if they

1725
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:48,500
would like to find it?

1726
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:52,184
So it's the quantum briefing is free to

1727
01:02:52,184 --> 01:02:56,105
read and access to everyone online on physicsworld.com.

1728
01:02:56,105 --> 01:02:58,605
If you just click through to our magazines

1729
01:02:58,744 --> 01:03:00,505
tab and you look at all of the

1730
01:03:00,505 --> 01:03:02,184
magazines lined up for this year, you will

1731
01:03:02,184 --> 01:03:02,684
see

1732
01:03:02,985 --> 01:03:04,664
you you can read it online in a

1733
01:03:04,664 --> 01:03:06,425
nice flip book. You can download it in

1734
01:03:06,425 --> 01:03:07,005
a PDF,

1735
01:03:07,409 --> 01:03:09,329
all the options, and it's free to read

1736
01:03:09,329 --> 01:03:09,989
and access.

1737
01:03:10,369 --> 01:03:13,109
And it also includes little bits of audio

1738
01:03:13,250 --> 01:03:15,889
and podcasts and so you can hear people

1739
01:03:15,889 --> 01:03:18,609
talking about it. You can find out what

1740
01:03:18,609 --> 01:03:21,250
author Ursula Caleb Gwynn had to do with

1741
01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:22,869
Schrodinger's cat. Amazing.

1742
01:03:24,025 --> 01:03:26,204
You can look at that beautiful quantum artwork.

1743
01:03:26,824 --> 01:03:28,525
You can look at an absolutely

1744
01:03:28,824 --> 01:03:31,085
fascinating little bit of science fiction

1745
01:03:31,784 --> 01:03:33,465
on on what happened if,

1746
01:03:33,945 --> 01:03:35,885
Heisenberg never made it to Helgoland

1747
01:03:36,184 --> 01:03:38,929
and what happens when he did a little

1748
01:03:39,309 --> 01:03:40,429
a little sort of,

1749
01:03:41,150 --> 01:03:42,130
parallel situation.

1750
01:03:43,230 --> 01:03:45,789
And finally, you can also go and test

1751
01:03:45,789 --> 01:03:48,829
your quantum acumen with our quantum quiz on

1752
01:03:48,829 --> 01:03:50,190
the back page for a little bit of

1753
01:03:50,190 --> 01:03:52,075
fun. And there are no prizes for that

1754
01:03:52,075 --> 01:03:53,934
apart from feeling extremely clever.

1755
01:03:54,795 --> 01:03:56,954
I'd like to thank Felicity and Tushna for

1756
01:03:56,954 --> 01:03:58,394
talking to me for this episode of the

1757
01:03:58,394 --> 01:04:00,795
Physics World Stories podcast. And don't forget that

1758
01:04:00,795 --> 01:04:02,954
you can delve much deeper into the world

1759
01:04:02,954 --> 01:04:05,295
of quantum physics on the Physics World's website,

1760
01:04:05,355 --> 01:04:06,750
physicsworld.com,

1761
01:04:06,750 --> 01:04:09,010
where you will, of course, also find

1762
01:04:09,309 --> 01:04:12,369
those blogs from Mateen Jurani from Helgoland.

1763
01:04:12,829 --> 01:04:15,070
We'll be back next month with something else

1764
01:04:15,070 --> 01:04:17,230
from this wonderful world of physics, and thank

1765
01:04:17,230 --> 01:04:19,090
you very much for listening.