1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,120 Welcome to the Becker's pharmacy leadership podcast. I'm 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,779 Ella Jeffries, pharmacy reporter with Becker's healthcare. 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,240 Today, I'm joined by Melissa Chase, director of 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,019 pharmacy at Valley Children's Healthcare. 5 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,559 In this episode, we'll be discussing how pharmacy 6 00:00:12,559 --> 00:00:14,984 leaders plan for acute care models, IV room 7 00:00:14,984 --> 00:00:17,464 repairs, and automation decisions, and what it takes 8 00:00:17,464 --> 00:00:20,265 to maintain safe and efficient operations during major 9 00:00:20,265 --> 00:00:21,324 infrastructure changes. 10 00:00:21,704 --> 00:00:23,464 Melissa, thank you so much for joining me 11 00:00:23,464 --> 00:00:25,385 today. To start us off, can you please 12 00:00:25,385 --> 00:00:27,224 introduce yourself and share a bit about your 13 00:00:27,224 --> 00:00:29,625 role and how you're involved in pharmacy operations 14 00:00:29,625 --> 00:00:30,125 planning? 15 00:00:31,699 --> 00:00:34,100 Hi. Good morning, Ella. My name is Melissa 16 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:35,859 Chase, and I am the director of pharmacy 17 00:00:35,859 --> 00:00:38,979 at Valley Children's Healthcare. My role here really 18 00:00:38,979 --> 00:00:40,520 sits at that intersection 19 00:00:40,899 --> 00:00:42,600 between clinical care 20 00:00:42,979 --> 00:00:43,799 and operations. 21 00:00:44,899 --> 00:00:45,399 And 22 00:00:45,875 --> 00:00:47,814 I oversee our pharmacy services 23 00:00:48,115 --> 00:00:49,255 here, which includes 24 00:00:49,795 --> 00:00:52,835 acute care hospital, about 358 25 00:00:52,835 --> 00:00:53,335 licenses, 26 00:00:53,954 --> 00:00:54,454 ambulatory 27 00:00:54,835 --> 00:00:55,335 services. 28 00:00:55,715 --> 00:00:58,274 And in that ambulatory services, it includes our 29 00:00:58,274 --> 00:00:59,895 home care pharmacy services. 30 00:01:00,740 --> 00:01:03,000 A big part of what I do 31 00:01:03,859 --> 00:01:04,359 is, 32 00:01:05,299 --> 00:01:06,840 making sure that our infrastructure, 33 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:08,519 our workflow design, 34 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:09,560 and, 35 00:01:10,180 --> 00:01:12,040 that we're evaluating new technologies. 36 00:01:12,965 --> 00:01:14,805 A lot of my focus is making sure 37 00:01:14,805 --> 00:01:17,844 our pharmacy spaces, our systems are built not 38 00:01:17,844 --> 00:01:20,245 just for today, but also for where we 39 00:01:20,245 --> 00:01:22,105 anticipate health care to be going, 40 00:01:22,564 --> 00:01:23,784 especially in pediatrics 41 00:01:24,165 --> 00:01:26,105 where safety and precision 42 00:01:26,484 --> 00:01:29,430 are everything for our patients, our our families, 43 00:01:29,890 --> 00:01:30,950 and our team. 44 00:01:32,609 --> 00:01:34,929 Definitely. Thank you so much for that context. 45 00:01:34,929 --> 00:01:36,929 And with that, I'd like to go into, 46 00:01:36,929 --> 00:01:39,170 you know, when a hospital begins planning a 47 00:01:39,170 --> 00:01:41,625 new acute care model or major pharmacy infrastructure 48 00:01:42,825 --> 00:01:45,064 project, what do you think are the first 49 00:01:45,064 --> 00:01:47,004 operational questions pharmacy leaders should be asking? 50 00:01:48,105 --> 00:01:49,724 So one of the things with pharmacy 51 00:01:50,104 --> 00:01:53,305 leaders is that we always feel like we're 52 00:01:53,305 --> 00:01:53,805 not 53 00:01:54,549 --> 00:01:56,709 at the table from the very beginning of 54 00:01:56,709 --> 00:01:59,590 a project. It seems sometimes that we get 55 00:01:59,590 --> 00:02:00,090 engaged 56 00:02:00,469 --> 00:02:03,030 a little bit after the scope of the 57 00:02:03,030 --> 00:02:03,530 building 58 00:02:04,229 --> 00:02:06,469 is designed, and so then we're on the 59 00:02:06,469 --> 00:02:09,224 backside saying, oh, no. That space that's dedicated 60 00:02:09,224 --> 00:02:11,544 for us isn't big enough or it doesn't 61 00:02:11,544 --> 00:02:13,245 meet our needs for these reasons. 62 00:02:13,784 --> 00:02:16,284 So I really try to ensure that, 63 00:02:17,544 --> 00:02:21,064 our voice is heard very early on, say, 64 00:02:21,064 --> 00:02:23,830 for instance, when they're just initially meeting with 65 00:02:23,830 --> 00:02:25,370 an architect to determine 66 00:02:25,909 --> 00:02:28,069 space planning or the size and scope of 67 00:02:28,069 --> 00:02:31,030 a building, really trying to get pharmacy's voice 68 00:02:31,030 --> 00:02:33,509 from the very beginning because that's a lot 69 00:02:33,509 --> 00:02:34,009 easier 70 00:02:34,389 --> 00:02:35,530 than to try and 71 00:02:36,135 --> 00:02:38,715 change space, which can be very expensive 72 00:02:39,175 --> 00:02:39,574 if, 73 00:02:39,974 --> 00:02:41,355 certain ports of 74 00:02:41,814 --> 00:02:44,555 the architectural design are already in place. 75 00:02:44,855 --> 00:02:46,855 And then you're coming in and saying, okay. 76 00:02:46,855 --> 00:02:49,014 This is what pharmacy needs for this workflow, 77 00:02:49,014 --> 00:02:51,115 and it was never considered from the beginning. 78 00:02:51,659 --> 00:02:54,620 So really trying to get involved very early 79 00:02:54,620 --> 00:02:57,900 on and making sure that any decisions that, 80 00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:01,500 your executives are making about new pharmacy space 81 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:03,340 or new space in general that may or 82 00:03:03,340 --> 00:03:04,560 may not include pharmacy, 83 00:03:05,064 --> 00:03:07,865 it has you, involved in that very early 84 00:03:07,865 --> 00:03:08,365 on. 85 00:03:09,064 --> 00:03:11,645 The other thing is is learning to understand 86 00:03:12,985 --> 00:03:13,965 the dialogue 87 00:03:14,264 --> 00:03:14,764 between 88 00:03:15,145 --> 00:03:15,645 contractors 89 00:03:16,185 --> 00:03:17,084 and architects, 90 00:03:18,909 --> 00:03:20,209 is critical. So 91 00:03:20,509 --> 00:03:21,009 understanding, 92 00:03:22,349 --> 00:03:25,250 space planning and being able to review blueprints 93 00:03:25,629 --> 00:03:26,689 and CAD drawings, 94 00:03:26,989 --> 00:03:28,989 that took me a minute. And so working 95 00:03:28,989 --> 00:03:30,609 at that and trying to learn, 96 00:03:31,215 --> 00:03:33,935 will really help you as a pharmacy leader 97 00:03:33,935 --> 00:03:35,634 with these major projects 98 00:03:35,935 --> 00:03:36,655 as things, 99 00:03:37,134 --> 00:03:37,634 progress. 100 00:03:39,615 --> 00:03:41,854 Yeah. That was a really helpful perspective. Thank 101 00:03:41,854 --> 00:03:43,870 you for sharing. And I'm curious, you know, 102 00:03:43,870 --> 00:03:45,950 you mentioned making sure pharmacy has a seat 103 00:03:45,950 --> 00:03:47,730 at the table right from the very beginning. 104 00:03:47,790 --> 00:03:49,469 What would you say are some barriers that 105 00:03:49,469 --> 00:03:52,430 pharmacy leaders experience that prohibit that from happening 106 00:03:52,430 --> 00:03:52,930 sometimes? 107 00:03:55,310 --> 00:03:57,650 Usually, I find that it's 108 00:03:58,485 --> 00:04:02,185 an unconscious bias. They just don't realize 109 00:04:02,644 --> 00:04:05,205 sometimes the importance of engaging pharmacy from the 110 00:04:05,205 --> 00:04:07,144 very beginning. It's not that they didn't, 111 00:04:09,044 --> 00:04:09,784 you know, 112 00:04:10,245 --> 00:04:11,064 or they didn't 113 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:14,240 reach out on purpose. It's just that it's 114 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,919 not something that they thought of from the 115 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:17,860 very beginning. They're looking at 116 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,019 land. They're looking at, 117 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:21,699 you know, 118 00:04:22,399 --> 00:04:25,199 building size structure. Is it going to be 119 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:27,279 so many stories? Is it going to be 120 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:28,955 so, you know, large? 121 00:04:29,495 --> 00:04:31,274 What are some of the different, 122 00:04:31,735 --> 00:04:33,814 pieces that they're going to put into the 123 00:04:33,814 --> 00:04:34,314 building? 124 00:04:34,774 --> 00:04:36,935 So they look at scope sometimes. Say, for 125 00:04:36,935 --> 00:04:37,435 instance, 126 00:04:37,975 --> 00:04:39,675 a ambulatory surgical center. 127 00:04:40,055 --> 00:04:42,060 They know how many suites they're going to 128 00:04:42,060 --> 00:04:44,459 need, but they don't always anticipate all the 129 00:04:44,459 --> 00:04:46,379 ancillary services that are going to need to 130 00:04:46,379 --> 00:04:47,279 be involved, 131 00:04:48,060 --> 00:04:50,459 in that building and then the scope of 132 00:04:50,459 --> 00:04:52,939 those needs. How much data will they need 133 00:04:52,939 --> 00:04:55,419 for Pyxis machines or power, and is it 134 00:04:55,419 --> 00:04:56,479 emergency power? 135 00:04:57,544 --> 00:04:59,225 How much space will they need? Will they 136 00:04:59,225 --> 00:04:59,884 be compounding, 137 00:05:00,824 --> 00:05:03,064 any medications? Do they need an IV room 138 00:05:03,064 --> 00:05:04,285 in that space? So 139 00:05:04,665 --> 00:05:07,084 we think about things very differently, 140 00:05:08,345 --> 00:05:09,805 when it's just at an architectural 141 00:05:10,264 --> 00:05:10,764 phase 142 00:05:11,399 --> 00:05:13,339 versus an operations planning. 143 00:05:13,639 --> 00:05:15,980 And so making sure that 144 00:05:16,759 --> 00:05:17,580 they understand 145 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:20,120 that I'm not going to be trying to 146 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,699 change the overall scope, just making sure that 147 00:05:22,759 --> 00:05:24,634 what the scope is determined 148 00:05:25,095 --> 00:05:27,814 has the right support for all of the 149 00:05:27,814 --> 00:05:30,534 ancillary services and especially in my role for 150 00:05:30,534 --> 00:05:31,034 pharmacy. 151 00:05:32,375 --> 00:05:32,875 But 152 00:05:33,814 --> 00:05:34,214 barriers 153 00:05:35,175 --> 00:05:37,735 to reiterate, it's it's mostly making sure that 154 00:05:37,735 --> 00:05:39,149 you're not forgotten about, 155 00:05:39,709 --> 00:05:41,069 or that you have that seat at the 156 00:05:41,069 --> 00:05:43,310 table from the very beginning. So a little 157 00:05:43,310 --> 00:05:46,129 bit of strategy sometimes is the squeaky wheel, 158 00:05:46,990 --> 00:05:50,029 or to keep your ears open when you 159 00:05:50,029 --> 00:05:52,029 think that they're about to engage with an 160 00:05:52,029 --> 00:05:53,629 architect or you think that they're about to 161 00:05:53,629 --> 00:05:54,884 engage on a big move, 162 00:05:55,605 --> 00:05:57,764 just asking, hey. Is it possible for me 163 00:05:57,764 --> 00:05:59,525 to join you? Is it you know, when 164 00:05:59,525 --> 00:06:01,444 you start having those meetings, do you think 165 00:06:01,444 --> 00:06:03,444 you can invite me even if you don't 166 00:06:03,444 --> 00:06:05,764 think that there's, you know, a need at 167 00:06:05,764 --> 00:06:07,685 the moment? It's just really important for pharmacy 168 00:06:07,685 --> 00:06:09,305 to be involved from the very beginning. 169 00:06:11,060 --> 00:06:12,759 Definitely. Thank you for sharing. 170 00:06:13,620 --> 00:06:15,860 And, you know, aside from, you know, pharmacy 171 00:06:15,860 --> 00:06:17,639 leaders in general, you also mentioned, 172 00:06:18,819 --> 00:06:20,500 I wanna say it was the contractors and 173 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:21,000 architects. 174 00:06:21,379 --> 00:06:23,060 But, you know, aside from those two groups, 175 00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:24,979 who are the key stakeholders that you would 176 00:06:24,979 --> 00:06:26,595 say need to be involved early to make 177 00:06:26,754 --> 00:06:29,394 these projects successful, and how do you coordinate 178 00:06:29,394 --> 00:06:31,954 across these teams to, you know, to bring 179 00:06:31,954 --> 00:06:34,535 the project to life and ensure its success? 180 00:06:35,795 --> 00:06:38,055 One of the key priorities is your team. 181 00:06:38,115 --> 00:06:40,774 You really need to engage with your team, 182 00:06:40,834 --> 00:06:41,610 whether it's, 183 00:06:42,089 --> 00:06:44,490 the technicians working in an IV room or 184 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:46,490 who are going to be displaced and what 185 00:06:46,490 --> 00:06:49,389 other alternative locations they'll be displaced to, 186 00:06:49,849 --> 00:06:52,490 whether it's a a trailer or another IV 187 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:53,469 room on campus 188 00:06:54,024 --> 00:06:55,084 or off campus, 189 00:06:55,625 --> 00:06:58,504 work. So really engaging with your team to 190 00:06:58,504 --> 00:06:59,725 get their ideas. 191 00:07:00,185 --> 00:07:03,485 I many times find that when we, 192 00:07:04,504 --> 00:07:07,319 work on a large project like this and 193 00:07:07,319 --> 00:07:11,079 we gave we we gained the best insight 194 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:13,480 and knowledge and ideas from the people doing 195 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:14,139 the work. 196 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:16,680 And so, what there's been a variety of 197 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,519 ways that we've done that. We've been able 198 00:07:18,519 --> 00:07:21,394 to take architectural drawings when they're not finalized, 199 00:07:21,454 --> 00:07:23,394 but they're maybe 50 through, 200 00:07:23,855 --> 00:07:25,855 tape them up on a dry erase board, 201 00:07:25,855 --> 00:07:27,235 and just tell the team, 202 00:07:28,095 --> 00:07:30,574 tell us what you see. Tell us what 203 00:07:30,574 --> 00:07:32,175 you think needs to be changed. Tell us 204 00:07:32,175 --> 00:07:33,899 what you would like to see in that 205 00:07:34,459 --> 00:07:36,540 space. We've also done it where we've taped 206 00:07:36,540 --> 00:07:37,680 off certain spaces, 207 00:07:38,379 --> 00:07:40,160 and tried to walk through them. 208 00:07:40,699 --> 00:07:41,600 We've also 209 00:07:42,060 --> 00:07:42,560 engaged, 210 00:07:43,419 --> 00:07:46,300 outside consultants. So when you're designing a new 211 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:47,199 IV room, 212 00:07:47,524 --> 00:07:49,625 we didn't go to pharmacy school to become 213 00:07:50,085 --> 00:07:51,225 architects or 214 00:07:51,685 --> 00:07:55,285 HVAC technicians. And so working with consultants have 215 00:07:55,285 --> 00:07:57,785 helped us to also be successful to 216 00:07:58,165 --> 00:07:59,845 know not just what do we need to 217 00:07:59,845 --> 00:08:01,145 design this for today, 218 00:08:01,540 --> 00:08:04,600 but what are those potential changes in USP? 219 00:08:04,660 --> 00:08:06,819 What are those potential changes in regulations? What 220 00:08:06,819 --> 00:08:08,180 do we need to plan so that this 221 00:08:08,180 --> 00:08:11,160 sustains us five, ten, fifteen years out? 222 00:08:11,699 --> 00:08:13,620 And making sure that we build it to 223 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:16,339 those standards and not just to today. Sometimes 224 00:08:16,339 --> 00:08:18,875 we have limited space, and we need to 225 00:08:18,875 --> 00:08:21,835 make the absolute best use out of the 226 00:08:21,835 --> 00:08:22,975 smaller spaces. 227 00:08:23,514 --> 00:08:26,875 And sometimes consultants have seen many other ideas 228 00:08:26,875 --> 00:08:29,995 or many other technologies, and they can, share 229 00:08:29,995 --> 00:08:31,720 those with us and with our team. We 230 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,399 can take that back to our team, and 231 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:35,240 we can make decisions as to would you 232 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:36,860 rather have x or y. 233 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,399 And then they buy in to what that 234 00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:42,039 solution will be and what that, 235 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,799 future remodel or what that new space is 236 00:08:45,799 --> 00:08:48,495 going to bring for them. And they're excited 237 00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:51,154 and they're engaged. And so when they're displaced 238 00:08:51,934 --> 00:08:53,855 or when they're having to work through more 239 00:08:53,855 --> 00:08:54,914 challenging operations, 240 00:08:55,454 --> 00:08:58,174 they still have that inspired shared vision that 241 00:08:58,174 --> 00:08:59,394 they can look towards 242 00:08:59,934 --> 00:09:00,754 knowing that 243 00:09:01,059 --> 00:09:03,300 this is difficult and challenging now, but it's 244 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:05,139 for the good, and we're going to have 245 00:09:05,139 --> 00:09:07,800 this wonderful new space and opportunity 246 00:09:08,259 --> 00:09:09,080 in the future. 247 00:09:09,860 --> 00:09:12,259 So really getting them engaged from the very 248 00:09:12,259 --> 00:09:15,475 beginning, having their buy in, including their ideas, 249 00:09:15,475 --> 00:09:17,074 which many of them are the best and 250 00:09:17,074 --> 00:09:19,495 the brightest ideas to help drive the project, 251 00:09:19,954 --> 00:09:21,975 and then having them to really 252 00:09:22,754 --> 00:09:25,414 buy in and be excited about the future 253 00:09:25,875 --> 00:09:27,495 really keeps that engaged 254 00:09:27,860 --> 00:09:29,240 team during those challenging 255 00:09:30,740 --> 00:09:34,500 times. Definitely. That collaborate collaboration piece is very 256 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:36,679 key, and I'm glad you brought that up. 257 00:09:37,459 --> 00:09:38,980 And now I'd like to turn to, you 258 00:09:38,980 --> 00:09:41,639 know, touching more back on, like, the evaluation 259 00:09:42,019 --> 00:09:44,634 aspect of these changes. When you're looking at 260 00:09:44,634 --> 00:09:47,674 automation solutions, what factor factors matter most to 261 00:09:47,674 --> 00:09:48,575 you and why? 262 00:09:49,674 --> 00:09:51,615 Thanks for asking. I love automation, 263 00:09:52,075 --> 00:09:54,154 but I love automation only when it makes 264 00:09:54,154 --> 00:09:54,654 sense. 265 00:09:55,035 --> 00:09:56,955 So the biggest factors for me are always 266 00:09:56,955 --> 00:09:57,455 safety, 267 00:09:57,839 --> 00:10:00,480 and we usually ask, does it reduce risk? 268 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,019 What risk does it reduce? 269 00:10:02,399 --> 00:10:05,059 Does it add meaningful checks in the process? 270 00:10:05,759 --> 00:10:08,000 And right after that, it's workflow. If a 271 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,240 piece of technology doesn't fit into how our 272 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,695 team actually works, it's just going to create 273 00:10:12,695 --> 00:10:15,174 frustration instead of value, and then they'll start 274 00:10:15,174 --> 00:10:17,754 working around it instead of working with it. 275 00:10:18,454 --> 00:10:21,115 So we really look at, 276 00:10:22,054 --> 00:10:23,195 uses of automation 277 00:10:23,894 --> 00:10:24,394 that 278 00:10:25,269 --> 00:10:27,610 incorporate a wide variety of strategies. 279 00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:30,149 For us, space is always a challenge. So 280 00:10:30,149 --> 00:10:32,090 we've looked at automation that, 281 00:10:33,269 --> 00:10:35,769 help with space and inventory control 282 00:10:36,149 --> 00:10:38,811 and also things that help with safety. So 283 00:10:38,811 --> 00:10:38,986 we fully invested in gravimetrics in our IV 284 00:10:38,986 --> 00:10:40,250 rooms, and we have also, 285 00:10:47,964 --> 00:10:48,464 room, 286 00:10:49,084 --> 00:10:49,584 and 287 00:10:49,964 --> 00:10:51,745 those also incorporate gravimetrics. 288 00:10:52,204 --> 00:10:54,945 And so we have tried to focus on 289 00:10:55,660 --> 00:10:56,160 reducing 290 00:10:56,620 --> 00:10:58,720 repetitive injuries for our staff 291 00:10:59,100 --> 00:10:59,840 and ensuring 292 00:11:00,379 --> 00:11:04,000 safety for our patients and making sure that 293 00:11:04,220 --> 00:11:06,540 any technology that we bring on or any 294 00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:08,320 automation that we bring on 295 00:11:08,694 --> 00:11:11,095 fits with all of these goals for our 296 00:11:11,095 --> 00:11:14,794 team and is the right piece for our 297 00:11:15,254 --> 00:11:19,095 size, for our workflow, and for the team 298 00:11:19,095 --> 00:11:20,794 that's gonna be working with it. 299 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,080 Automation just feel like a support system for 300 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,179 your staff, not something that they have to 301 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,000 work around or find a way to deal 302 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,460 with it in other ways. 303 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,620 Definitely. I couldn't agree more. 304 00:11:34,585 --> 00:11:36,504 And, you know, looking ahead to the future, 305 00:11:36,504 --> 00:11:38,424 where do you see the biggest opportunities for 306 00:11:38,424 --> 00:11:41,644 automation or also, you know, broader pharmacy infrastructure 307 00:11:41,705 --> 00:11:42,924 in general to improve 308 00:11:43,225 --> 00:11:45,625 not only patient care but just operations for 309 00:11:45,625 --> 00:11:46,285 your staff? 310 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,259 Continuing to build on, 311 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:51,940 existing efficiencies, 312 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,179 are some of the areas. It feels like 313 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:56,740 in 314 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,019 the IV workflow 315 00:11:58,879 --> 00:12:01,894 systems, we're taking a bit of a step 316 00:12:02,195 --> 00:12:04,215 backwards with two of the major, 317 00:12:05,235 --> 00:12:05,735 companies, 318 00:12:07,634 --> 00:12:09,575 bringing their products to end of life. 319 00:12:10,035 --> 00:12:12,274 And so that's a big challenge. I know 320 00:12:12,274 --> 00:12:14,934 many people are looking to EHR solutions, 321 00:12:15,715 --> 00:12:16,375 for incorporating 322 00:12:17,529 --> 00:12:19,070 the ID workflow solutions, 323 00:12:19,690 --> 00:12:21,529 and that's something we're gonna be looking at 324 00:12:21,529 --> 00:12:22,269 as well. 325 00:12:23,289 --> 00:12:24,730 We're looking at, 326 00:12:25,210 --> 00:12:25,710 partnerships. 327 00:12:26,089 --> 00:12:28,190 So what is the future with the partnerships 328 00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:30,350 with our five zero three b contractors? 329 00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:33,315 What is going to be, you know, the 330 00:12:33,315 --> 00:12:33,815 continued, 331 00:12:35,075 --> 00:12:36,295 support that they'll, 332 00:12:36,754 --> 00:12:38,455 provide versus the costs, 333 00:12:39,715 --> 00:12:42,134 instead of maybe making everything 334 00:12:42,514 --> 00:12:43,014 ourselves 335 00:12:45,009 --> 00:12:47,009 and with the use of our IV room 336 00:12:47,009 --> 00:12:47,509 automation. 337 00:12:48,690 --> 00:12:49,909 I think automation 338 00:12:50,289 --> 00:12:52,789 is going to continue to progress. 339 00:12:53,409 --> 00:12:55,190 We now see more adoption 340 00:12:55,569 --> 00:12:57,509 of robotics for delivering 341 00:12:58,544 --> 00:13:01,044 products to our nurses and at bedside. 342 00:13:02,304 --> 00:13:05,424 So we're just continuing to see where are 343 00:13:05,424 --> 00:13:06,164 those inefficiencies, 344 00:13:06,784 --> 00:13:09,845 where are the tasks that are, 345 00:13:10,544 --> 00:13:12,804 not value add, where are 346 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:16,699 times where, you know, we're using 347 00:13:17,079 --> 00:13:18,919 thirty minutes of our time when there's a 348 00:13:18,919 --> 00:13:20,759 piece of technology that might be able to 349 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:22,759 do something in five minutes? An example of 350 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:23,259 that 351 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:24,059 is, 352 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,500 RFID tagging for your trays or, 353 00:13:28,345 --> 00:13:31,085 kits. And instead of manually 354 00:13:32,024 --> 00:13:35,065 refilling and checking them and documenting, you know, 355 00:13:35,065 --> 00:13:37,465 there's a lot of, technology now that can 356 00:13:37,465 --> 00:13:39,245 help with that, and that really, 357 00:13:39,705 --> 00:13:41,404 reduces the burden on, 358 00:13:41,865 --> 00:13:42,764 your your 359 00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:43,589 people, 360 00:13:44,149 --> 00:13:46,730 for doing those tasks. So what 361 00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:47,850 additional 362 00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:48,889 automation, 363 00:13:49,909 --> 00:13:52,470 is available? The other thing I really think 364 00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:55,289 that we're all on the tipping point of 365 00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:56,009 is 366 00:13:56,514 --> 00:13:58,595 AI. What is AI going to bring? What 367 00:13:58,595 --> 00:14:01,714 is that additional level of data, and what 368 00:14:01,714 --> 00:14:03,495 are we going to be able to do 369 00:14:03,554 --> 00:14:06,355 with all of that data and information? How 370 00:14:06,355 --> 00:14:08,134 can we bring it together into 371 00:14:08,595 --> 00:14:10,455 one location? How can we 372 00:14:10,899 --> 00:14:13,379 divide that data? How can we analyze that 373 00:14:13,379 --> 00:14:15,379 data? And how do we use that data 374 00:14:15,379 --> 00:14:17,480 to really streamline our operations, 375 00:14:18,259 --> 00:14:19,799 drive more efficiencies, 376 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:22,679 and make the best decisions possible? 377 00:14:23,615 --> 00:14:26,115 We are seeing AI adoption in health care, 378 00:14:26,575 --> 00:14:27,554 as an industry, 379 00:14:28,735 --> 00:14:31,375 and it's moving rapidly. And so I think 380 00:14:31,375 --> 00:14:33,294 that's an area that as pharmacy leaders we're 381 00:14:33,294 --> 00:14:36,254 all trying to evaluate and figure out how 382 00:14:36,254 --> 00:14:39,289 do we incorporate that into our software and 383 00:14:39,289 --> 00:14:41,210 learning systems. I know we're using it in 384 00:14:41,210 --> 00:14:42,110 our drug diversion, 385 00:14:43,450 --> 00:14:43,950 analysis, 386 00:14:44,809 --> 00:14:46,190 but there's many other, 387 00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:48,110 I think, software 388 00:14:48,730 --> 00:14:51,794 opportunities, not necessarily the hardware, the remodel, or 389 00:14:51,794 --> 00:14:53,894 the the direct automation, but 390 00:14:54,195 --> 00:14:57,235 developing those systems that incorporate AI in order 391 00:14:57,235 --> 00:14:58,375 to bring those efficiencies, 392 00:14:59,475 --> 00:15:01,654 and yet still being careful, 393 00:15:02,115 --> 00:15:03,174 and keeping safety, 394 00:15:04,274 --> 00:15:04,934 at the 395 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,240 at the core front of anything that we're 396 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,000 doing to adopt AI. I think there's still 397 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,680 a little risk in that, and we're still 398 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:12,580 trying to learn, 399 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,700 how to manage the AI in the future. 400 00:15:17,804 --> 00:15:20,605 Definitely. Yeah. Speaking with other leaders, you know, 401 00:15:20,605 --> 00:15:22,445 AI is at the forefront of a lot 402 00:15:22,445 --> 00:15:25,164 of people's minds, so it's exciting to to 403 00:15:25,164 --> 00:15:28,384 hear and continue evaluating what those possible opportunities 404 00:15:28,605 --> 00:15:29,264 can be. 405 00:15:30,299 --> 00:15:31,500 And I'd like to take a step back 406 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,179 now. You know, looking back at projects you've 407 00:15:33,179 --> 00:15:35,660 worked on, what lessons have you learned about, 408 00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:37,580 you know, when it comes to planning pharmacy 409 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:40,639 models or IV room upgrades or anything infrastructure 410 00:15:40,779 --> 00:15:42,700 wise? You know, were there any surprises during 411 00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:45,535 those projects that changed how you approach planning 412 00:15:45,535 --> 00:15:46,035 now? 413 00:15:47,294 --> 00:15:47,794 Absolutely. 414 00:15:48,174 --> 00:15:50,575 So over the twenty six years of my 415 00:15:50,575 --> 00:15:53,535 experience, I've learned a lot. Sometimes I've had 416 00:15:53,535 --> 00:15:55,774 to learn it the hard way. One of 417 00:15:55,774 --> 00:15:57,615 the things is is that these projects are 418 00:15:57,615 --> 00:16:00,460 never just pharmacy projects. So they may say 419 00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:03,500 pharmacy IV room on them, but you you 420 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:05,200 have so many different teams, 421 00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:09,200 that are involved in these, whether it's IT, 422 00:16:09,820 --> 00:16:10,320 finance, 423 00:16:10,875 --> 00:16:11,375 legal, 424 00:16:11,754 --> 00:16:12,815 infection prevention, 425 00:16:13,355 --> 00:16:13,855 construction 426 00:16:14,394 --> 00:16:14,894 teams, 427 00:16:15,434 --> 00:16:17,054 your EVS team, 428 00:16:17,754 --> 00:16:19,355 as to, you know, when are they going 429 00:16:19,355 --> 00:16:20,875 to clean, when are they not going to 430 00:16:20,875 --> 00:16:21,375 clean. 431 00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:25,639 It's so many different teams that you really 432 00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:27,960 need to engage people early, and you need 433 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,539 to keep them engaged. When you engage 434 00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:32,940 with or you forget somebody, 435 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,975 and you bring them in later, that late 436 00:16:35,975 --> 00:16:36,475 feedback, 437 00:16:36,855 --> 00:16:39,014 kind of alluded to earlier, it can be 438 00:16:39,014 --> 00:16:40,955 expensive. It can lead to, 439 00:16:41,654 --> 00:16:43,975 a change. It can lead to feedback that's 440 00:16:43,975 --> 00:16:46,955 critical that didn't get incorporated into the planning, 441 00:16:47,095 --> 00:16:48,475 and now you have to pivot. 442 00:16:49,740 --> 00:16:52,240 And so really ensuring that 443 00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:55,100 you've reached out, you have the right people 444 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:55,919 at the meetings. 445 00:16:56,940 --> 00:17:00,139 They all understand what their roles are and 446 00:17:00,139 --> 00:17:02,160 what you need from them. 447 00:17:03,065 --> 00:17:05,384 Who's the project lead? Who's the expert? Who 448 00:17:05,384 --> 00:17:07,865 do we defer to when, you know, there's 449 00:17:07,865 --> 00:17:10,664 differences of opinions? How are the decisions going 450 00:17:10,664 --> 00:17:11,484 to be made? 451 00:17:12,424 --> 00:17:15,964 And then really trying to limit those changes. 452 00:17:16,429 --> 00:17:18,369 Change orders in construction 453 00:17:19,309 --> 00:17:19,809 really, 454 00:17:21,069 --> 00:17:22,690 can delay projects 455 00:17:23,230 --> 00:17:24,509 if you have to go back and re 456 00:17:24,509 --> 00:17:25,490 permit something, 457 00:17:26,269 --> 00:17:29,549 or can add significant expense and rework. And 458 00:17:29,549 --> 00:17:31,470 so I really tried to 459 00:17:32,804 --> 00:17:34,404 with the engagement of the teams from the 460 00:17:34,404 --> 00:17:36,184 very early on stages, 461 00:17:36,644 --> 00:17:37,144 trying 462 00:17:37,524 --> 00:17:39,044 to make sure that we get it right 463 00:17:39,044 --> 00:17:39,865 the first time, 464 00:17:40,404 --> 00:17:42,325 which is sometimes very difficult. But I think 465 00:17:42,325 --> 00:17:44,325 the only way that we've ever been successful 466 00:17:44,325 --> 00:17:46,950 with that is keeping everybody engaged and at 467 00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:48,570 the table from the very beginning. 468 00:17:49,349 --> 00:17:51,430 The last thing is is never forget your 469 00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:53,590 frontline staff. Your frontline staff are some of 470 00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:56,070 your most important stakeholders. They are the ones 471 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:58,470 living in these spaces every day. You have 472 00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:59,690 to include them early. 473 00:18:00,335 --> 00:18:02,755 You're going to miss things. You don't know 474 00:18:03,055 --> 00:18:06,115 what you don't know. And from their perspective, 475 00:18:06,654 --> 00:18:08,195 that's what really matters. 476 00:18:09,055 --> 00:18:10,815 The other thing is is that any new 477 00:18:10,815 --> 00:18:12,195 space or technology 478 00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:16,529 doesn't automatically mean that you're gonna have better 479 00:18:16,529 --> 00:18:17,029 outcomes. 480 00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:19,330 You have to bring your team along through 481 00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:22,289 that transition because if they don't understand the 482 00:18:22,289 --> 00:18:24,390 why or if they don't buy into 483 00:18:25,009 --> 00:18:27,250 or if they don't understand the transition or 484 00:18:27,250 --> 00:18:29,414 they don't fully understand the new automation or 485 00:18:29,575 --> 00:18:30,075 technology, 486 00:18:30,695 --> 00:18:33,515 then they're gonna struggle in the new space. 487 00:18:34,455 --> 00:18:35,674 And change management 488 00:18:36,295 --> 00:18:39,195 with their adult learning or their understanding 489 00:18:39,734 --> 00:18:43,015 of the operations, their understanding of the new 490 00:18:43,015 --> 00:18:43,515 technologies, 491 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,000 That takes time. So you have to build 492 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,059 in the opportunity 493 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,380 for them to learn 494 00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:51,779 the new space, to learn the new technologies 495 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,140 in order to 496 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,619 implement and go live successfully. 497 00:18:56,855 --> 00:18:59,734 So making sure, just to recap, you engage 498 00:18:59,734 --> 00:19:01,894 with all of the teams, keep them at 499 00:19:01,894 --> 00:19:02,555 the table, 500 00:19:03,015 --> 00:19:05,355 avoid changes as much as possible, 501 00:19:05,894 --> 00:19:07,654 and then really have a plan for that 502 00:19:07,654 --> 00:19:09,734 go live, making sure that your team is 503 00:19:09,734 --> 00:19:12,730 fully engaged and they have time to practice, 504 00:19:12,730 --> 00:19:14,250 they have time to learn, and they have 505 00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:16,909 time to develop in order to ensure success. 506 00:19:19,049 --> 00:19:21,369 Yeah. Well, great. That was awesome advice. Thank 507 00:19:21,369 --> 00:19:22,809 you so much for sharing, and I think 508 00:19:22,809 --> 00:19:24,429 a lot of pharmacy leaders, 509 00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:26,809 that will be helpful to to hear. So 510 00:19:26,809 --> 00:19:27,549 thank you. 511 00:19:28,744 --> 00:19:30,265 Unfortunately, that is all the time we have 512 00:19:30,265 --> 00:19:31,244 for today's conversation. 513 00:19:31,784 --> 00:19:34,184 I wanna thank Melissa again for sharing such 514 00:19:34,184 --> 00:19:34,924 great perspectives, 515 00:19:36,265 --> 00:19:38,024 and, we will see you guys next time. 516 00:19:38,024 --> 00:19:38,684 Thank you.