1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,399 Welcome to Becker's Healthcare podcast. I'm Chris Sosa, 2 00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:03,839 your host. And I thought we'll be joined 3 00:00:03,839 --> 00:00:05,299 today by doctor Mason Kebriae, 4 00:00:05,599 --> 00:00:08,720 medical director of neurosurgery and neurosciences at Children's 5 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,820 Minnesota, and doctor Colin Torok, 6 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,599 medical director of neurointerventional surgery at the health 7 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:16,125 system. Mason and Stalin, thank you for joining 8 00:00:16,125 --> 00:00:16,864 us today. 9 00:00:17,164 --> 00:00:18,065 Thanks for having 10 00:00:18,445 --> 00:00:20,844 me. Wonderful. So you're both on to tell 11 00:00:20,844 --> 00:00:22,844 us about this, wonderful new program you have 12 00:00:22,844 --> 00:00:23,824 at Children's Minnesota. 13 00:00:24,765 --> 00:00:26,765 It's free sweet. But before we get into 14 00:00:26,765 --> 00:00:29,070 that, could you both please introduce yourselves and 15 00:00:29,149 --> 00:00:30,210 some bit about your backgrounds. 16 00:00:31,469 --> 00:00:32,949 My name is Colin Torok. I'm an inter 17 00:00:33,070 --> 00:00:36,770 neurodivergental surgeon in Minneapolis Saint Paul. Provide neurovascular 18 00:00:37,149 --> 00:00:39,390 care to adult pediatric patients throughout the region. 19 00:00:39,629 --> 00:00:42,195 I trained in radiology and neuroradiology at Johns 20 00:00:42,195 --> 00:00:44,835 Hopkins and subsequently in neurointerventional surgery at Massachusetts 21 00:00:44,835 --> 00:00:45,655 General Hospital. 22 00:00:46,435 --> 00:00:48,195 I was actually originally inspired to pursue a 23 00:00:48,195 --> 00:00:51,075 career in this field by, pediatric neurointerventional leaders, 24 00:00:51,075 --> 00:00:53,655 including doctors Gayut and Pearl at Johns Hopkins 25 00:00:54,130 --> 00:00:56,369 and, continue to develop my interest and experience 26 00:00:56,369 --> 00:00:59,250 with doctor Darren Orbach at Boston Children's Hospital, 27 00:00:59,329 --> 00:01:01,809 during my time at Mass General. Currently, serve 28 00:01:01,809 --> 00:01:03,969 as assistant co director of neurodivergental surgery at 29 00:01:03,969 --> 00:01:06,129 Alina Health, medical director of the same at 30 00:01:06,129 --> 00:01:07,030 Children's Minnesota, 31 00:01:07,715 --> 00:01:09,555 and I hold an adjunct appointment in the 32 00:01:09,555 --> 00:01:11,814 department of neurosurgery at the University of Minnesota. 33 00:01:12,594 --> 00:01:15,474 Yeah. Mason Khebri. I am a pediatric and 34 00:01:15,474 --> 00:01:16,295 adult neurosurgeon. 35 00:01:16,594 --> 00:01:18,915 I, did my residency at University of Nebraska 36 00:01:18,915 --> 00:01:19,650 Medical Center 37 00:01:20,130 --> 00:01:21,349 and a pediatric fellowship 38 00:01:21,650 --> 00:01:22,450 at Emory. 39 00:01:22,770 --> 00:01:24,609 I did wonderful mentors there. I've been at 40 00:01:24,609 --> 00:01:27,170 Children's Minnesota for fourteen years. I'm the medical 41 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:30,209 director of neurosurgery and neurosciences like you mentioned. 42 00:01:30,209 --> 00:01:30,370 And, 43 00:01:31,010 --> 00:01:32,450 Colin and I have had the pleasure of, 44 00:01:32,915 --> 00:01:35,394 working together, and being friends for for a 45 00:01:35,394 --> 00:01:37,795 long time, and on the adult side where 46 00:01:37,795 --> 00:01:38,854 we have a joint, 47 00:01:39,555 --> 00:01:41,655 similar joint venture in, cerebrovascular 48 00:01:41,954 --> 00:01:44,055 neurosurgery. So we work together quite a bit. 49 00:01:44,515 --> 00:01:46,619 Wonderful. Thank you guys for sharing it with 50 00:01:46,619 --> 00:01:48,060 our audience just what has brought you to 51 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:50,079 this moment in time, at which point 52 00:01:50,539 --> 00:01:52,060 back to what we originally said we were 53 00:01:52,060 --> 00:01:53,519 gonna talk about. That's the neuroangiography 54 00:01:53,819 --> 00:01:55,659 suite at Children's Minnesota. This has gotta be 55 00:01:55,659 --> 00:01:57,039 a very exciting development, 56 00:01:57,819 --> 00:01:59,579 no doubt, and one that's taken a while 57 00:01:59,579 --> 00:01:59,739 to, 58 00:02:00,724 --> 00:02:01,625 come to fruition. 59 00:02:01,924 --> 00:02:03,204 So can you take us back to the 60 00:02:03,204 --> 00:02:04,645 beginning and what led to the creation of 61 00:02:04,645 --> 00:02:05,305 the suite? 62 00:02:06,004 --> 00:02:08,645 Yeah. Absolutely. We at Children's Minnesota, we're one 63 00:02:08,645 --> 00:02:10,884 of the largest stand alone children's hospitals. And 64 00:02:10,884 --> 00:02:12,564 what that means for our patients in the 65 00:02:12,564 --> 00:02:14,884 region is that we are made up of, 66 00:02:15,284 --> 00:02:17,819 specialists that are have dedicated our careers and 67 00:02:17,819 --> 00:02:20,159 our training, have self specialized training in pediatrics 68 00:02:20,379 --> 00:02:20,879 specifically. 69 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:23,419 And so we have a lot of and 70 00:02:23,419 --> 00:02:25,259 especially in neuroscience program, we've got a lot 71 00:02:25,259 --> 00:02:28,060 of multidisciplinary programs like our neuro oncology program 72 00:02:28,060 --> 00:02:29,759 where it's neurosurgeons, neuroradiologists, 73 00:02:30,955 --> 00:02:33,514 neuro oncologists, and other other team members, our 74 00:02:33,514 --> 00:02:35,834 fetal program. So really our goal is to 75 00:02:35,834 --> 00:02:37,834 become a regional referral center, not just for 76 00:02:37,834 --> 00:02:39,194 the people in the community and the Twin 77 00:02:39,194 --> 00:02:40,715 Cities and the surrounding area, but for the 78 00:02:40,715 --> 00:02:43,594 surrounding states to be able to, offer our, 79 00:02:43,995 --> 00:02:46,334 kids and families a high level of care, 80 00:02:46,710 --> 00:02:48,469 that they really where they wouldn't have to 81 00:02:48,469 --> 00:02:50,009 travel far. And so 82 00:02:50,389 --> 00:02:53,590 in in that talking about that, we with 83 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:54,330 the neurovascular 84 00:02:54,790 --> 00:02:57,349 care, with aneurysms, AVMs, for example, there are 85 00:02:57,349 --> 00:02:59,125 a lot of centers that do a great 86 00:02:59,125 --> 00:02:59,604 job, 87 00:03:00,004 --> 00:03:02,405 us included, where you have neurosurgeons that do 88 00:03:02,405 --> 00:03:05,444 the the neurosurgical portion, and then you you 89 00:03:05,444 --> 00:03:05,944 transform, 90 00:03:06,324 --> 00:03:08,004 for example, for us to to our partners 91 00:03:08,004 --> 00:03:09,944 at Allina, which is an adult hospital. 92 00:03:10,324 --> 00:03:11,685 They do a great job, but then they 93 00:03:11,685 --> 00:03:13,319 they do their intervention or neuroradiology 94 00:03:13,780 --> 00:03:15,540 there, and then the patient gets shipped back, 95 00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:16,680 transferred back to Children's. 96 00:03:17,060 --> 00:03:20,580 And so it's somewhat siloed care, not, not 97 00:03:20,580 --> 00:03:24,040 a truly comprehensive program. And then, unfortunately, because, 98 00:03:24,754 --> 00:03:26,754 of the sort of limitation that we'll probably 99 00:03:26,754 --> 00:03:29,395 get into for pediatric programs, it's really hard 100 00:03:29,395 --> 00:03:29,974 to get, 101 00:03:30,675 --> 00:03:33,235 a comprehensive program. One of the really, the 102 00:03:33,235 --> 00:03:34,455 benchmark for a comprehensive, 103 00:03:34,995 --> 00:03:36,215 pediatric cerebrovascular 104 00:03:36,514 --> 00:03:37,814 program is, Boston. 105 00:03:38,449 --> 00:03:40,129 And so Colin and I have worked together 106 00:03:40,129 --> 00:03:41,590 for a long time. He's a fantastic 107 00:03:41,889 --> 00:03:42,389 neuromerangiologist 108 00:03:43,009 --> 00:03:44,769 and a and an even better guy. And, 109 00:03:44,769 --> 00:03:46,129 you know, we thought, well, we you know, 110 00:03:46,129 --> 00:03:47,489 there are a lot of adult programs like 111 00:03:47,489 --> 00:03:49,650 the ones that we actually work, together. And, 112 00:03:50,049 --> 00:03:52,289 we we offer really comprehensive care to these 113 00:03:52,289 --> 00:03:53,909 patients that come in with an aneurysm, 114 00:03:54,365 --> 00:03:55,724 with AVM, with other, 115 00:03:56,205 --> 00:03:59,264 pathologies that require both the neurosurgeon, neurologist, 116 00:04:00,044 --> 00:04:00,544 neuroradiologist, 117 00:04:00,844 --> 00:04:02,064 and interventional neuroradiologist 118 00:04:02,685 --> 00:04:04,224 so they can get the best care. 119 00:04:04,605 --> 00:04:05,965 What can we do so we can provide 120 00:04:05,965 --> 00:04:08,050 that to, to children? And and, really, we 121 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:10,050 put a lot of, work together. We came 122 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:11,409 up with a plan. We, 123 00:04:11,729 --> 00:04:13,909 work closely with our colleagues on the administrative 124 00:04:14,050 --> 00:04:15,830 side at the Children's as well, 125 00:04:16,370 --> 00:04:17,569 and we're able to, 126 00:04:17,970 --> 00:04:20,209 get approval and and and take this program 127 00:04:20,209 --> 00:04:21,029 off the ground. 128 00:04:21,834 --> 00:04:23,995 About how long does that process take, Mason? 129 00:04:23,995 --> 00:04:25,754 You said there you mentioned a lot of 130 00:04:25,754 --> 00:04:27,355 moving parts, which, of course, is gonna be 131 00:04:27,355 --> 00:04:29,134 with any sort of endeavor like this. 132 00:04:29,595 --> 00:04:30,334 So about 133 00:04:31,194 --> 00:04:33,535 when you started to this point in time, 134 00:04:33,754 --> 00:04:34,920 what are what are we talk? 135 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,639 I would say and you correct me, Colin, 136 00:04:37,639 --> 00:04:39,400 if if, if I'm off on this. But, 137 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,319 I mean, I would say probably five, six 138 00:04:41,319 --> 00:04:43,160 years ago is where we had the we 139 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:44,620 we talked about this vision 140 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,480 that we both shared of building a program 141 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,785 like this, for for the kids and their 142 00:04:49,785 --> 00:04:51,324 families in our in our community. 143 00:04:51,785 --> 00:04:53,384 And so from there, it was kinda coming 144 00:04:53,384 --> 00:04:55,384 up with a plan and and, of course, 145 00:04:55,384 --> 00:04:57,544 COVID hit and that, you know, reset everything 146 00:04:57,544 --> 00:05:00,504 and then really reinventing that, planting the seas, 147 00:05:00,504 --> 00:05:02,264 talking to different people, trying to see what 148 00:05:02,264 --> 00:05:03,600 obstacles there are. And, 149 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,439 one of the issues is there's a lot 150 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:07,360 of there there's there are two challenges, two 151 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,520 big challenges to this program is, one, is 152 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,220 having the pediatric expertise, 153 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:12,819 in Colin, 154 00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:15,680 and then, myself and the rest of our 155 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,279 team. And we're lucky that we have that 156 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,555 in our community. So that's one. We thought, 157 00:05:19,555 --> 00:05:21,235 okay. Well, we have that handled. The next 158 00:05:21,235 --> 00:05:23,954 thing is this big capital expenditure investment in 159 00:05:23,954 --> 00:05:24,454 the 160 00:05:24,754 --> 00:05:27,314 biplane suite, this neuroimmunity suite in a stand 161 00:05:27,314 --> 00:05:29,235 alone children's hospital. We we don't have the 162 00:05:29,235 --> 00:05:29,735 big 163 00:05:30,194 --> 00:05:33,875 dollars of of, the larger adult hospital systems 164 00:05:33,875 --> 00:05:34,694 that are sometimes, 165 00:05:35,509 --> 00:05:37,529 tied and and partnered up with the pediatric 166 00:05:37,590 --> 00:05:39,830 programs. And so, you know, hospitals in general 167 00:05:39,830 --> 00:05:42,730 run on a shoestring budget, but pediatric hospitals 168 00:05:42,870 --> 00:05:45,430 more so. And so so it was really 169 00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:48,230 partnering with our cardiologists, interventional cardiologists, and say, 170 00:05:48,230 --> 00:05:49,830 hey. We don't if we're not using this 171 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:50,865 suite, you know, is this something 172 00:05:51,824 --> 00:05:53,985 that we can partner with you guys and 173 00:05:53,985 --> 00:05:54,625 your team and have you guys use it. 174 00:05:54,625 --> 00:05:56,144 So there there's, you you know, so there's 175 00:05:56,144 --> 00:05:58,064 some scale and there's usability so that the 176 00:05:58,064 --> 00:05:59,985 performer works out. We have a we have 177 00:05:59,985 --> 00:06:03,104 a great, colleague and colleagues in a body 178 00:06:03,104 --> 00:06:04,949 IR department as well too that we so 179 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:06,550 a lot of stakeholders when you say, well, 180 00:06:06,550 --> 00:06:08,230 how can we make this happen? So it's 181 00:06:08,230 --> 00:06:09,370 not just feasible, 182 00:06:10,389 --> 00:06:12,389 to for build up, but financially feasible so 183 00:06:12,389 --> 00:06:13,670 we can get approval so that it makes 184 00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:15,750 sense for hospital systems so we don't, you 185 00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:16,250 know, 186 00:06:17,569 --> 00:06:19,110 cut cut cut the crash financially for them 187 00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:20,555 and put them in a in a a 188 00:06:20,555 --> 00:06:22,474 tough position. And so really, it took a 189 00:06:22,474 --> 00:06:24,794 lot lot of talking to different stakeholders to 190 00:06:24,794 --> 00:06:25,694 bring this together. 191 00:06:26,474 --> 00:06:28,154 Mason, thanks for taking us through all the 192 00:06:28,154 --> 00:06:29,995 the mechanisms that it takes to get a 193 00:06:29,995 --> 00:06:31,615 project like this off the ground. 194 00:06:32,314 --> 00:06:34,870 So, Colin, how would you say Children's Minnesota 195 00:06:34,870 --> 00:06:36,970 is gonna measure the success of this program? 196 00:06:37,509 --> 00:06:39,269 Yeah. We'll measure the success of the program 197 00:06:39,269 --> 00:06:40,410 in multiple dimensions. 198 00:06:41,029 --> 00:06:43,209 Certainly, clinical excellence is first and foremost. 199 00:06:43,829 --> 00:06:46,410 So we'll be participating in various international academic 200 00:06:46,470 --> 00:06:46,970 organizations, 201 00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:49,529 such as the International Pediatric Stroke Organization, 202 00:06:49,954 --> 00:06:52,995 Society of Neurotiverventional Surgery Pediatric Section, and have 203 00:06:52,995 --> 00:06:55,415 a a distinct presence in in academic conferences 204 00:06:55,475 --> 00:06:57,954 and publications. So taking all these dimensions together, 205 00:06:57,954 --> 00:06:59,634 we're we're really planning to, be a leader 206 00:06:59,634 --> 00:07:00,375 in the field. 207 00:07:01,074 --> 00:07:02,774 Thanks so much, Colin. So 208 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,459 when we think about 209 00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:06,939 where this program is headed, 210 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,060 what is important for health systems to know 211 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,360 about treating children with these types of disorders 212 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:13,019 and conditions? 213 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,480 And there's an end of that question. So 214 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,394 I know it's a lot, but take one 215 00:07:17,394 --> 00:07:19,074 thing at a time. So along those lines, 216 00:07:19,074 --> 00:07:20,834 what advice would you give other health systems 217 00:07:20,834 --> 00:07:23,415 that are considering creating their own angiography suite? 218 00:07:24,035 --> 00:07:25,714 Well, I think maybe I'll start with that 219 00:07:25,714 --> 00:07:26,214 one, 220 00:07:26,595 --> 00:07:28,194 Chris and Colin. You know, I think the 221 00:07:28,194 --> 00:07:29,714 first thing you have to look at is 222 00:07:29,714 --> 00:07:31,870 is what are the needs of what what 223 00:07:31,870 --> 00:07:34,349 are the goals of your your hospital system, 224 00:07:34,349 --> 00:07:35,870 health care system, and what are the needs 225 00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:37,470 of your community? I mean, there there are 226 00:07:37,470 --> 00:07:37,970 certainly 227 00:07:38,430 --> 00:07:40,829 infinite demands and infinite needs out there and 228 00:07:40,829 --> 00:07:44,029 limited resources both in in people and in 229 00:07:44,029 --> 00:07:45,250 finances. And so 230 00:07:45,625 --> 00:07:47,644 we we look at our department at neuroscience 231 00:07:47,704 --> 00:07:50,185 at Children's Minnesota and and ask ourselves, what 232 00:07:50,185 --> 00:07:51,785 is it that we wanna do? You know, 233 00:07:51,785 --> 00:07:53,625 do do and our our goal really is 234 00:07:53,625 --> 00:07:55,245 to be a quaternary system 235 00:07:55,785 --> 00:07:57,384 and and to be a to be a 236 00:07:57,384 --> 00:08:00,879 regional referral center center for our patients and 237 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:02,479 and families in the community. And what that 238 00:08:02,479 --> 00:08:04,319 means isn't that we're just here to help 239 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:06,399 out the the patients and their families, but 240 00:08:06,399 --> 00:08:09,039 also our our partners in from other health 241 00:08:09,039 --> 00:08:10,814 care systems, from other referring providers, 242 00:08:11,214 --> 00:08:13,455 and also and and and that we we 243 00:08:13,455 --> 00:08:15,615 have the capability and the fact that we've 244 00:08:15,615 --> 00:08:18,254 got the subspecialist. That that in itself, having 245 00:08:18,254 --> 00:08:20,995 the pediatric subspecialist subspecialist that also 246 00:08:21,455 --> 00:08:22,355 further subspecialize 247 00:08:22,735 --> 00:08:23,555 in cerebrovascular 248 00:08:24,175 --> 00:08:24,675 neurosurgery 249 00:08:24,975 --> 00:08:26,435 and neurointerventional radiology, 250 00:08:26,910 --> 00:08:28,189 That's a rare feat, but we have that 251 00:08:28,189 --> 00:08:29,870 under one umbrella. And then to be able 252 00:08:29,870 --> 00:08:30,370 to 253 00:08:30,910 --> 00:08:32,670 make it financially make sense as well too 254 00:08:32,670 --> 00:08:34,350 as a hospital system and be able to 255 00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:36,129 build out this neuro IR suite, 256 00:08:36,509 --> 00:08:37,009 neuroangiography 257 00:08:37,389 --> 00:08:39,230 suite, that is tough too was was a 258 00:08:39,230 --> 00:08:40,910 big challenge that we overcame. So now we 259 00:08:40,910 --> 00:08:42,615 have this together, and really we can partner 260 00:08:42,615 --> 00:08:44,934 with with our communities and be able to 261 00:08:44,934 --> 00:08:47,495 bring those bring those patients here. Give them 262 00:08:47,495 --> 00:08:49,975 the the best outcome, the best care, which 263 00:08:49,975 --> 00:08:52,455 will will measure the way, that Colin had 264 00:08:52,455 --> 00:08:53,274 mentioned earlier. 265 00:08:53,575 --> 00:08:55,495 And then and then really let those patients 266 00:08:55,495 --> 00:08:57,059 go back in their community and seek care 267 00:08:57,059 --> 00:08:58,820 for everything else there. One of the worries 268 00:08:58,820 --> 00:09:00,420 that I think one of the challenges in 269 00:09:00,420 --> 00:09:02,500 getting referrals from other health care centers is 270 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:03,480 that there's there's 271 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:06,259 this thought of this the siloed mentality in 272 00:09:06,259 --> 00:09:08,179 general in health care of this competition. But 273 00:09:08,179 --> 00:09:09,700 in reality, you have to look at, well, 274 00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:11,220 what is our goal here? Our goal is 275 00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:13,375 here to make our community healthier and be 276 00:09:13,375 --> 00:09:15,295 a good partner to our chart the our 277 00:09:15,295 --> 00:09:17,055 patients in our community, and we do that 278 00:09:17,055 --> 00:09:17,555 by 279 00:09:18,175 --> 00:09:20,975 doing from providing care that other health care 280 00:09:20,975 --> 00:09:23,215 systems are limited in and providing the best 281 00:09:23,215 --> 00:09:24,894 care and then having those patients go back 282 00:09:24,894 --> 00:09:26,654 to their community for the care that they 283 00:09:26,654 --> 00:09:27,154 need. 284 00:09:27,850 --> 00:09:30,190 Excellent. So and as to what other 285 00:09:30,809 --> 00:09:31,629 health systems 286 00:09:32,570 --> 00:09:34,570 what is it important for them to know 287 00:09:34,570 --> 00:09:36,730 about treating children with these or disorders and 288 00:09:36,730 --> 00:09:37,230 conditions? 289 00:09:37,929 --> 00:09:39,149 I would say the, 290 00:09:39,529 --> 00:09:41,210 you know, the the more you look at 291 00:09:41,210 --> 00:09:43,865 outcomes and patient experience, that's really what patients 292 00:09:43,865 --> 00:09:46,524 are looking for is patient experience and also 293 00:09:46,745 --> 00:09:47,245 outcomes. 294 00:09:47,945 --> 00:09:48,684 And multidisciplinary 295 00:09:49,225 --> 00:09:50,665 and there's more and more data coming out 296 00:09:50,665 --> 00:09:53,544 that multidisciplinary programs, patients have a better outcome 297 00:09:53,544 --> 00:09:55,865 than programs that are siloed. And, unfortunately, in 298 00:09:55,865 --> 00:09:56,915 health care, it's just our 299 00:09:57,740 --> 00:09:59,899 for whatever reason, intuitively, there's a lot of 300 00:09:59,899 --> 00:10:02,779 siloed care. It's great care individually, but it's 301 00:10:02,779 --> 00:10:05,659 very, very siloed. So the more his the 302 00:10:05,659 --> 00:10:07,579 health care system starts thinking of of what 303 00:10:07,579 --> 00:10:08,860 can we do in, 304 00:10:09,419 --> 00:10:09,919 multidisciplinary 305 00:10:10,299 --> 00:10:10,799 care, 306 00:10:11,914 --> 00:10:13,855 that they'll be able to sort of organically 307 00:10:13,995 --> 00:10:15,595 come up with ideas of what they can 308 00:10:15,595 --> 00:10:17,674 provide given the the capabilities that they have. 309 00:10:17,674 --> 00:10:19,274 And I think they should focus on that. 310 00:10:19,274 --> 00:10:21,115 And then the other challenges, especially in a 311 00:10:21,115 --> 00:10:23,134 pediatric setting is I mean, finances 312 00:10:23,514 --> 00:10:26,039 is are are challenging and with the just 313 00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:28,460 ever changing regulations in health care and reimbursement 314 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:30,120 as well too, it's not gonna look better 315 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,320 and better. So you have to get creative 316 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,480 and say, well, we're gonna you know, we 317 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,320 know we need this biplane suite, but it 318 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,200 costs so much money. How can we, partner 319 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,519 up with other, subspecialists like we did with 320 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:42,904 our cardiology sub specialist, somebody IR subspecialist 321 00:10:43,445 --> 00:10:45,285 to to use this enough, utilize enough so 322 00:10:45,285 --> 00:10:47,285 that it'll financially make sense as well too. 323 00:10:47,285 --> 00:10:48,884 I think that's another you really have to 324 00:10:48,884 --> 00:10:51,125 get creative and work closely in partnership with, 325 00:10:51,285 --> 00:10:53,125 with other team members. So I guess my 326 00:10:53,125 --> 00:10:53,759 my big 327 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:55,519 word would be, 328 00:10:55,919 --> 00:10:57,519 you know, I think the key is just 329 00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:00,240 partnership, you know, both in multidisciplinary groups and 330 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,720 and partnership with other groups and and, solving 331 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,160 these problems to be able to provide, 332 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,040 super vascular care and other are they types 333 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,095 of care that are more challenging 334 00:11:09,475 --> 00:11:12,215 and resource limited at at health care systems? 335 00:11:12,835 --> 00:11:13,955 Yeah. I was gonna add too. I think 336 00:11:13,955 --> 00:11:15,554 it's worth pointing out that we're in a 337 00:11:15,554 --> 00:11:16,774 very unique situation. 338 00:11:17,394 --> 00:11:19,075 You really have to start with a a 339 00:11:19,075 --> 00:11:20,629 critical mass. And, 340 00:11:21,090 --> 00:11:22,790 Children's Minnesota, I think it has, 341 00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:26,290 the health care system is of, adequate size 342 00:11:26,290 --> 00:11:28,610 and reach that we have a referral base 343 00:11:28,610 --> 00:11:29,429 that can actually, 344 00:11:30,210 --> 00:11:32,370 lead to a viable program, and then on 345 00:11:32,370 --> 00:11:34,465 top of that division to invest in a 346 00:11:34,465 --> 00:11:37,125 dedicated neuron geography suite in a freestanding center. 347 00:11:37,504 --> 00:11:40,225 So these are very unique conditions. And, obviously, 348 00:11:40,225 --> 00:11:41,424 on top of that, we have a a 349 00:11:41,424 --> 00:11:44,245 wonderful collaborative team with a lot of experience 350 00:11:44,304 --> 00:11:46,085 in in taking care of children. So, 351 00:11:46,465 --> 00:11:48,625 we're we're very lucky, but I think if 352 00:11:48,625 --> 00:11:51,019 if you're missing any of those single components, 353 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,480 very difficult to to pull this off. And 354 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,320 I think that's why it's it's taken us, 355 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:57,639 years of of planning and execution to get 356 00:11:57,639 --> 00:11:58,139 here. 357 00:11:58,839 --> 00:12:00,759 Mason, thank you so much for sharing all 358 00:12:00,759 --> 00:12:03,055 those details on what it takes to put 359 00:12:03,055 --> 00:12:04,274 this program together. 360 00:12:04,815 --> 00:12:06,815 My last question for you is when will 361 00:12:06,815 --> 00:12:09,535 it officially be rolling at Children's Minnesota? Any 362 00:12:09,535 --> 00:12:11,315 other details you wanna share with us? 363 00:12:11,935 --> 00:12:13,774 Yes. I'll take that. So we're we're proud 364 00:12:13,774 --> 00:12:15,535 to announce that this is, again, going to 365 00:12:15,535 --> 00:12:18,289 be the region's first dedicated pediatric neurointerventional angiography 366 00:12:18,350 --> 00:12:20,509 suite, and we we hope to launch, in 367 00:12:20,509 --> 00:12:21,009 February. 368 00:12:21,549 --> 00:12:22,049 So, 369 00:12:22,429 --> 00:12:26,110 we'll have dramatically expanded capabilities to, treat all 370 00:12:26,110 --> 00:12:28,370 variety of complex conditions on on-site. 371 00:12:28,750 --> 00:12:30,750 And, again, it's taken a while to get 372 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:32,590 here, but we're we're very excited to to 373 00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:33,090 finally, 374 00:12:33,464 --> 00:12:34,204 get to work. 375 00:12:34,664 --> 00:12:36,664 Perfect. Colin, Mason, thank you so much for 376 00:12:36,664 --> 00:12:39,304 sharing everything involved with this wonderful program you 377 00:12:39,304 --> 00:12:41,464 guys have at Children's Minnesota. I know it's 378 00:12:41,464 --> 00:12:43,144 take taken a lot of work and a 379 00:12:43,144 --> 00:12:45,225 lot of time, and I'm sure, you know, 380 00:12:45,225 --> 00:12:46,504 part of it is just paying off now, 381 00:12:46,504 --> 00:12:47,944 and the rest will pay off well into 382 00:12:47,944 --> 00:12:49,839 the future. Thank you both so much for 383 00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:51,199 your time, and, you know, we look forward 384 00:12:51,199 --> 00:12:52,799 the next time we speak to you or 385 00:12:52,799 --> 00:12:54,100 anyone at Children's Minnesota. 386 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,070 Thank you so much. Nice talking to you.