1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,060 Imagine this. You're at the Hyatt Regency Chicago 2 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:06,000 immersed in insightful discussions with the health care 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,459 industry's top leaders. 4 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:10,580 Welcome to Becker's 12th annual CEO 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,740 and CFO roundtable from November 11th to 14th 6 00:00:15,134 --> 00:00:15,634 2024. 7 00:00:16,175 --> 00:00:19,315 Picture yourself networking with over a 1000 executive 8 00:00:19,454 --> 00:00:20,275 level attendees, 9 00:00:20,734 --> 00:00:23,795 collecting business cards, and forging valuable connections. 10 00:00:24,255 --> 00:00:26,654 Feel the excitement as you engage in 4 11 00:00:26,654 --> 00:00:28,675 days of sessions featuring 400 12 00:00:29,135 --> 00:00:30,870 elite health system speakers. 13 00:00:31,429 --> 00:00:35,049 Envision yourself diving deep into critical topics like 14 00:00:35,109 --> 00:00:37,450 rural health care, digital transformation, 15 00:00:38,070 --> 00:00:40,409 health equity, and c suite diversity. 16 00:00:41,270 --> 00:00:44,729 Now imagine being inspired by our celebrity keynotes, 17 00:00:45,195 --> 00:00:48,234 pro football hall of famers Troy Aikman and 18 00:00:48,234 --> 00:00:52,075 Emmett Smith, 43rd president George w Bush, and 19 00:00:52,075 --> 00:00:55,435 author and journalist Jenna Bush Hager. Their stories 20 00:00:55,435 --> 00:00:56,495 will leave you motivated 21 00:00:56,875 --> 00:00:57,695 and energized. 22 00:00:58,234 --> 00:00:59,535 Don't miss this unparalleled 23 00:00:59,995 --> 00:01:00,495 opportunity. 24 00:01:00,990 --> 00:01:03,329 Get registered today. Visit beckershospitalreview.com 25 00:01:05,230 --> 00:01:06,989 and click on the events page to find 26 00:01:06,989 --> 00:01:08,129 the conference website. 27 00:01:08,510 --> 00:01:09,489 That's the beckershospitalreview.com 28 00:01:11,709 --> 00:01:13,729 events page. See you in Chicago. 29 00:01:14,344 --> 00:01:16,344 This is Chris Sosa with the Becker's HealthCare 30 00:01:16,344 --> 00:01:16,844 podcast. 31 00:01:17,145 --> 00:01:18,825 I'm thrilled to be joined by doctor Barry 32 00:01:18,825 --> 00:01:22,344 Newman, pediatric surgeon, former director of pediatric surgery 33 00:01:22,344 --> 00:01:24,424 at Providence Health, and an active lead in 34 00:01:24,424 --> 00:01:26,924 the world of informatics to reduce clinician burnout. 35 00:01:26,984 --> 00:01:29,165 Doctor Newman, thank you for joining us today. 36 00:01:30,459 --> 00:01:32,060 It's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for 37 00:01:32,060 --> 00:01:32,879 having me. 38 00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:36,299 Doctor Newman, for those who don't know you 39 00:01:36,299 --> 00:01:37,819 and are not familiar with your work, could 40 00:01:37,819 --> 00:01:39,500 you please introduce yourself and tell us a 41 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:40,560 bit about your background? 42 00:01:41,625 --> 00:01:41,944 Well, 43 00:01:42,745 --> 00:01:45,545 first and foremost, I'm a full time pediatric 44 00:01:45,545 --> 00:01:47,784 surgeon. I've been in practice for 40 years 45 00:01:47,784 --> 00:01:48,284 now. 46 00:01:48,825 --> 00:01:50,825 I have an MBA in finance and in 47 00:01:50,825 --> 00:01:51,645 health care, 48 00:01:52,265 --> 00:01:54,924 and, also a master's in health care informatics. 49 00:01:56,060 --> 00:01:58,459 I'm board certified in surgery as well as 50 00:01:58,459 --> 00:01:59,200 in informatics. 51 00:02:00,380 --> 00:02:02,459 Since obtaining my informatics degree, 52 00:02:02,859 --> 00:02:05,260 several years ago, I've been actively engaged in 53 00:02:05,260 --> 00:02:08,000 efforts to reduce clinician burden and its consequences 54 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:09,120 of burnout. 55 00:02:10,324 --> 00:02:12,085 I've been working with an h l seven 56 00:02:12,085 --> 00:02:14,564 working group and currently had a task force 57 00:02:14,564 --> 00:02:17,284 sponsored by HIMSS as well as efforts in 58 00:02:17,284 --> 00:02:19,465 AMIA's 25 by 5 project, 59 00:02:20,164 --> 00:02:20,905 and recently, 60 00:02:21,764 --> 00:02:23,129 I'm serving as a lead, 61 00:02:23,530 --> 00:02:26,569 in a working group sponsored by HL 7 62 00:02:26,569 --> 00:02:28,669 and the International Standards Organization, 63 00:02:29,290 --> 00:02:32,490 looking to develop programs and practices to reduce 64 00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:33,550 burden and burnout, 65 00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:34,510 through, 66 00:02:35,370 --> 00:02:36,830 health information technology. 67 00:02:38,235 --> 00:02:39,675 Thank you for laying that out for us, 68 00:02:39,675 --> 00:02:40,495 doctor Newman. 69 00:02:41,115 --> 00:02:42,875 Given all the projects that you have going 70 00:02:42,875 --> 00:02:44,735 on, which are tremendous in many, 71 00:02:45,034 --> 00:02:46,574 what are your top priorities today? 72 00:02:47,914 --> 00:02:49,775 Well, my elevator speech 73 00:02:50,219 --> 00:02:52,060 is that my goal was to make health 74 00:02:52,060 --> 00:02:54,860 care better, more accessible, and more affordable for 75 00:02:54,860 --> 00:02:56,159 my children and grandchildren. 76 00:02:57,020 --> 00:02:59,500 That's what led to my MBA in finance 77 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:01,840 and health care and then, subsequently, 78 00:03:02,219 --> 00:03:04,080 my master's in health care informatics. 79 00:03:05,194 --> 00:03:05,694 However, 80 00:03:06,314 --> 00:03:07,834 while I wanted to do that for my 81 00:03:07,834 --> 00:03:08,814 children and grandchildren, 82 00:03:09,114 --> 00:03:11,275 I now unfortunately believe that I need to 83 00:03:11,275 --> 00:03:13,694 do that for myself and for my generation. 84 00:03:15,034 --> 00:03:17,375 Higher quality care should be a given. 85 00:03:18,460 --> 00:03:21,520 However, since the addition of electronic health records, 86 00:03:22,140 --> 00:03:23,760 clinician burden was skyrocketed. 87 00:03:24,860 --> 00:03:26,960 There's a number of reasons for this, 88 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:29,439 that it's not just the EHR. 89 00:03:30,379 --> 00:03:31,200 There are 90 00:03:32,379 --> 00:03:33,200 very multifactorial, 91 00:03:34,034 --> 00:03:36,134 but this has been leading to increased burnout, 92 00:03:36,675 --> 00:03:39,715 which leads to early retirement, providers leaving for 93 00:03:39,715 --> 00:03:40,215 nonclinical 94 00:03:40,514 --> 00:03:41,014 positions. 95 00:03:41,634 --> 00:03:44,375 And now we're seeing worsening shortages of caregivers 96 00:03:44,834 --> 00:03:46,614 where we were already previously 97 00:03:46,914 --> 00:03:48,134 developing shortages, 98 00:03:49,439 --> 00:03:52,080 without great caregivers who are working at top 99 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:52,580 form, 100 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,280 with the means of entering high quality data 101 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,520 that can really be used to improve health 102 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:58,020 care. 103 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,400 We have no hope of turning this around. 104 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:01,875 So it starts 105 00:04:02,354 --> 00:04:04,775 with engaged and not burned out providers. 106 00:04:05,794 --> 00:04:07,955 And that's my that's my passion and that 107 00:04:08,115 --> 00:04:10,215 that's my goal is to 108 00:04:10,914 --> 00:04:13,715 try to get this fixed because we need 109 00:04:13,715 --> 00:04:16,115 to we need to be increasing our numbers 110 00:04:16,115 --> 00:04:18,300 of providers, not not losing them. 111 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,639 Those are absolutely worthy goals, doctor, and certainly 112 00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:23,720 everyone listening to this podcast can relate to 113 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:24,220 them. 114 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,000 On that note, how do you anticipate your 115 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,240 role as well as anyone that you're working 116 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,705 with in your atmosphere? How I anticipate that 117 00:04:31,705 --> 00:04:33,465 will evolve over the next 18 months or 118 00:04:33,465 --> 00:04:33,965 so. 119 00:04:34,745 --> 00:04:36,665 Well, it turns out that this is actually 120 00:04:36,665 --> 00:04:37,564 a very timely 121 00:04:39,305 --> 00:04:41,884 offer to be involved with the podcast because, 122 00:04:42,665 --> 00:04:44,745 I actually will be stepping away from a 123 00:04:44,745 --> 00:04:46,979 full time clinical practice in the next few 124 00:04:46,979 --> 00:04:47,479 months. 125 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:50,839 After 43 years in practice, 126 00:04:51,699 --> 00:04:53,800 I'm moving on to my next stage. 127 00:04:54,979 --> 00:04:55,479 So 128 00:04:56,419 --> 00:04:58,259 while I'll be moving away from full time 129 00:04:58,259 --> 00:05:00,660 clinical practice, I plan to continue my work 130 00:05:00,660 --> 00:05:03,115 on reducing burden and burnout both on a 131 00:05:03,115 --> 00:05:04,175 volunteer basis, 132 00:05:04,634 --> 00:05:05,995 as well as in my role as a 133 00:05:05,995 --> 00:05:08,654 consultant. I do do consulting as well. 134 00:05:09,115 --> 00:05:12,654 I've also been developing research plans regarding identifying 135 00:05:12,875 --> 00:05:15,295 and measuring burdens and their contribution 136 00:05:15,915 --> 00:05:16,574 to burnout. 137 00:05:17,610 --> 00:05:19,449 And my research has shown that there are 138 00:05:19,449 --> 00:05:20,270 many contributors 139 00:05:20,649 --> 00:05:23,050 to to burnout and burnout, not just the 140 00:05:23,050 --> 00:05:24,270 electronic health record. 141 00:05:24,810 --> 00:05:26,990 For example, one of the other prime contributors 142 00:05:27,850 --> 00:05:28,910 is dissatisfaction 143 00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:30,189 with administrators, 144 00:05:31,044 --> 00:05:32,185 just as an example. 145 00:05:32,644 --> 00:05:34,745 Because there are other factors as well, but 146 00:05:35,285 --> 00:05:36,904 those are 2 147 00:05:37,524 --> 00:05:38,185 2 major 148 00:05:38,964 --> 00:05:39,464 contributors. 149 00:05:41,044 --> 00:05:43,125 We're also looking at the inclusion of burden 150 00:05:43,125 --> 00:05:44,504 as a strategic imperative 151 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:47,210 through the 25 by 5 work group in 152 00:05:47,210 --> 00:05:47,710 India. 153 00:05:48,569 --> 00:05:50,970 And we're hoping that hospitals and health systems 154 00:05:50,970 --> 00:05:51,870 include this, 155 00:05:52,410 --> 00:05:54,430 in their global planning and awareness, 156 00:05:54,810 --> 00:05:56,350 because I think that this is 157 00:05:56,889 --> 00:05:59,050 this is an important part of the solution. 158 00:05:59,050 --> 00:05:59,790 And without 159 00:06:00,185 --> 00:06:01,485 without that awareness 160 00:06:01,785 --> 00:06:04,104 and without including it in that type of 161 00:06:04,104 --> 00:06:05,084 global planning, 162 00:06:06,664 --> 00:06:08,745 I'm afraid that we're gonna we're gonna lose 163 00:06:08,745 --> 00:06:09,485 that battle. 164 00:06:10,824 --> 00:06:13,224 Doctor Newman, looking in a little bit of 165 00:06:13,224 --> 00:06:15,470 a different direction, although it's all related, of 166 00:06:15,470 --> 00:06:17,150 course. I have a 2 part question for 167 00:06:17,150 --> 00:06:18,670 you, and that is what are you excited 168 00:06:18,670 --> 00:06:20,910 about right now, and what is making you 169 00:06:20,910 --> 00:06:23,230 nervous? And please answer that in whichever order 170 00:06:23,230 --> 00:06:24,529 you feel is most appropriate. 171 00:06:25,550 --> 00:06:27,194 Well, I think the the first thing is 172 00:06:27,194 --> 00:06:29,834 is that there are so many incredible things 173 00:06:29,834 --> 00:06:30,975 that are on the horizon. 174 00:06:31,754 --> 00:06:34,975 Technology, both in the information technology space, 175 00:06:35,514 --> 00:06:38,495 as well as things like genomics and personalized 176 00:06:38,634 --> 00:06:39,134 medicine. 177 00:06:40,350 --> 00:06:43,230 They they hold such amazing potential to extend 178 00:06:43,230 --> 00:06:45,650 lifespans and not just extending lifespans, 179 00:06:46,189 --> 00:06:49,650 but useful lifespans to keep people productive and 180 00:06:49,949 --> 00:06:50,449 functional 181 00:06:51,069 --> 00:06:53,475 for many, many, more years. 182 00:06:53,955 --> 00:06:56,455 I do this when people talk about retirement. 183 00:06:56,915 --> 00:06:58,675 I tell people don't give up your day 184 00:06:58,675 --> 00:07:01,314 job because you you may live, a lot 185 00:07:01,314 --> 00:07:03,975 longer than you think you're gonna live. 186 00:07:04,595 --> 00:07:06,595 You know, most people are planning living into 187 00:07:06,595 --> 00:07:08,675 their eighties or maybe their nineties, and I 188 00:07:08,675 --> 00:07:11,210 I suspect people are gonna be living even 189 00:07:11,210 --> 00:07:13,069 longer than that. So, 190 00:07:13,930 --> 00:07:15,529 when you look at what's coming down the 191 00:07:15,529 --> 00:07:16,029 pipe, 192 00:07:16,410 --> 00:07:18,990 I think that we have an amazing future, 193 00:07:19,610 --> 00:07:21,310 potentially in front of us. 194 00:07:22,504 --> 00:07:25,064 But, I am concerned about a number of 195 00:07:25,064 --> 00:07:25,564 things. 196 00:07:26,665 --> 00:07:28,845 You know, we talked about burden and burnout, 197 00:07:29,464 --> 00:07:33,004 but I am increasingly concerned about the progressive 198 00:07:33,305 --> 00:07:33,805 financialization 199 00:07:34,185 --> 00:07:35,084 and the corporatization 200 00:07:35,384 --> 00:07:36,365 of health care. 201 00:07:37,439 --> 00:07:39,839 I think that this poses great risks to 202 00:07:39,839 --> 00:07:41,139 how care is provided. 203 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,980 Professionals, and I'm speaking about not just physicians, 204 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:46,660 but nurses and other related, 205 00:07:47,199 --> 00:07:47,699 professions, 206 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,540 are increasingly being treated as only employees 207 00:07:51,975 --> 00:07:54,154 and not utilized to their full potential. 208 00:07:54,535 --> 00:07:56,455 And there's been a loss of autonomy and 209 00:07:56,455 --> 00:07:58,395 freedom of act freedom of action. 210 00:07:59,175 --> 00:08:01,175 And, some of the problems that I mentioned 211 00:08:01,175 --> 00:08:03,115 earlier regarding burden and burnout, 212 00:08:03,415 --> 00:08:05,514 these are only going to fester and deteriorate, 213 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:08,420 potentially to the point where we can't redeem 214 00:08:08,420 --> 00:08:08,920 it. 215 00:08:10,019 --> 00:08:11,699 And the only people who can fix this 216 00:08:11,699 --> 00:08:14,360 now may be hospital and health system administrators, 217 00:08:15,139 --> 00:08:17,220 who do control the purse strings and do 218 00:08:17,220 --> 00:08:17,720 control 219 00:08:18,305 --> 00:08:20,644 how their employees are addressed 220 00:08:21,264 --> 00:08:21,664 and, 221 00:08:22,625 --> 00:08:24,944 whether they are listened to or not. And 222 00:08:24,944 --> 00:08:26,464 while I don't want to say the word 223 00:08:26,464 --> 00:08:29,425 tone deaf, and sadly, I'm afraid that this 224 00:08:29,425 --> 00:08:31,764 is where many situations are right now. 225 00:08:32,384 --> 00:08:35,339 So I think that needing to turn around 226 00:08:35,399 --> 00:08:36,860 how health care is managed, 227 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:38,779 with an eye towards 228 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,100 being inclusive and listening and, you know, leadership, 229 00:08:44,919 --> 00:08:46,699 playing a major part in 230 00:08:47,524 --> 00:08:49,305 reengaging with clinicians, 231 00:08:50,404 --> 00:08:52,105 I think becomes such an important, 232 00:08:52,884 --> 00:08:55,045 important aspect of of what we need to 233 00:08:55,045 --> 00:08:56,105 do with health care. 234 00:08:56,725 --> 00:08:58,404 And if we don't get there, 235 00:08:58,805 --> 00:09:00,805 I think we're sadly gonna be in a 236 00:09:00,805 --> 00:09:01,625 lot of trouble. 237 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,320 Doctor Newman, thank you so much for being 238 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,399 so generous with your time and your insights 239 00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:08,559 today. I cannot wait to share them with 240 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,639 our larger audience, and we definitely look forward 241 00:09:10,639 --> 00:09:12,339 to connecting again with you soon. 242 00:09:13,774 --> 00:09:15,294 Well, thank you so much for having me. 243 00:09:15,294 --> 00:09:17,215 And I I look forward to talking again. 244 00:09:17,215 --> 00:09:19,695 Hopefully, we can have this conversation again in 245 00:09:19,695 --> 00:09:21,215 a year, and we can talk about all 246 00:09:21,215 --> 00:09:22,894 the great things that have happened over the 247 00:09:22,894 --> 00:09:24,115 past year or so. 248 00:09:24,654 --> 00:09:25,715 No doubt, doctor.