1 00:00:00,545 --> 00:00:02,995 - This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. 2 00:00:03,695 --> 00:00:05,195 I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr. 3 00:00:05,225 --> 00:00:06,635 Mark Gorlick, president 4 00:00:06,635 --> 00:00:08,835 and Chief Executive Officer of Children's Minnesota. 5 00:00:09,215 --> 00:00:10,355 Dr. Gorlick, it's a pleasure 6 00:00:10,355 --> 00:00:11,555 to have you on the podcast today. 7 00:00:12,425 --> 00:00:13,895 - Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. 8 00:00:13,895 --> 00:00:14,975 Appreciate being invited. 9 00:00:16,195 --> 00:00:17,695 - Now, I'm really looking forward to talking 10 00:00:17,695 --> 00:00:18,855 with you more about what you're 11 00:00:18,855 --> 00:00:19,935 doing at Children's Minnesota. 12 00:00:20,095 --> 00:00:22,775 I know you've got some really fascinating things happening 13 00:00:22,775 --> 00:00:25,335 there, and so this will be an amazing discussion. 14 00:00:25,335 --> 00:00:26,655 But before we dive into that, 15 00:00:27,035 --> 00:00:28,095 can you tell me a little bit more 16 00:00:28,095 --> 00:00:29,335 about yourself and your background? 17 00:00:30,275 --> 00:00:32,565 - Yeah, sure. Delighted to, um, you know, 18 00:00:32,585 --> 00:00:34,965 my entire career has been in children's healthcare. 19 00:00:35,965 --> 00:00:38,845 I began as a pediatric emergency medicine physician, 20 00:00:39,145 --> 00:00:41,725 and I practiced that for about 25 years 21 00:00:41,785 --> 00:00:44,965 before I moved into full-time healthcare leadership. 22 00:00:45,625 --> 00:00:46,965 And, uh, I've done 23 00:00:46,965 --> 00:00:48,765 that at several different hospitals around the country. 24 00:00:48,955 --> 00:00:50,325 I've been here at Children's Minnesota, 25 00:00:50,355 --> 00:00:51,685 this month will be seven years, 26 00:00:52,105 --> 00:00:53,165 so I'm very excited about that. 27 00:00:54,105 --> 00:00:56,485 For your listeners who may not be familiar with, 28 00:00:56,755 --> 00:00:58,005 with our organization, 29 00:00:58,765 --> 00:01:00,125 children's Minnesota is an independent 30 00:01:00,125 --> 00:01:01,205 pediatric health system. 31 00:01:01,785 --> 00:01:04,565 Uh, we are based here in the Twin Cities of Minneapolis, St. 32 00:01:04,565 --> 00:01:06,845 Paul. Uh, we have two hospitals, 33 00:01:06,905 --> 00:01:08,205 one in Minneapolis, one in St. 34 00:01:08,205 --> 00:01:10,325 Paul, and we an ambulatory surgery center 35 00:01:10,385 --> 00:01:12,005 and over a dozen clinic locations. 36 00:01:12,705 --> 00:01:16,605 And between our two hospitals, we have about 460 beds, 37 00:01:16,605 --> 00:01:18,525 which makes us one of the 10 largest children's health 38 00:01:18,525 --> 00:01:19,685 systems in the United States. 39 00:01:20,265 --> 00:01:22,965 And we serve kids from, uh, throughout Minnesota 40 00:01:23,025 --> 00:01:24,125 and the surrounding states. 41 00:01:24,215 --> 00:01:25,565 We're the, we're actually the largest 42 00:01:26,075 --> 00:01:28,525 pediatric specialty provider in the upper Midwest. 43 00:01:29,615 --> 00:01:30,915 And importantly, I should note, 44 00:01:30,915 --> 00:01:33,395 we are celebrating our 100th anniversary this year. 45 00:01:34,335 --> 00:01:37,755 Uh, so we started in a little house in St. Paul in 1924. 46 00:01:37,855 --> 00:01:39,555 Now we've grown into this, you know, 47 00:01:40,305 --> 00:01:42,195 comprehensive pediatric health system, 48 00:01:42,195 --> 00:01:44,635 which we're very proud of, and, um, very proud 49 00:01:44,635 --> 00:01:46,475 to have served this community for the last century, 50 00:01:46,655 --> 00:01:49,515 and really excited to think about how we continue 51 00:01:49,515 --> 00:01:51,875 to serve this community for at least the next century. 52 00:01:53,445 --> 00:01:55,055 - Well, that's an amazing milestone 53 00:01:55,115 --> 00:01:58,535 and certainly excited, um, to, as you mentioned, 54 00:01:58,535 --> 00:02:00,855 have such a long and rich history in the community. 55 00:02:00,875 --> 00:02:04,375 And, you know, given, um, that reputation that you have, 56 00:02:04,805 --> 00:02:05,855 what are some of the trends 57 00:02:05,855 --> 00:02:07,575 that you're following most closely right now? 58 00:02:07,645 --> 00:02:10,375 What are you really, um, spending most of your time on? 59 00:02:11,945 --> 00:02:13,995 - Yeah, you know, it's, and when I think about trends, 60 00:02:13,995 --> 00:02:15,115 and it's timely, right? 61 00:02:15,115 --> 00:02:16,995 We're celebrating a hundredth anniversary, we're going 62 00:02:16,995 --> 00:02:18,235 through a strategic planning process. 63 00:02:18,455 --> 00:02:21,755 So certainly looking at, at trends is, is critical. 64 00:02:22,015 --> 00:02:23,315 So it's a really important question, 65 00:02:23,855 --> 00:02:25,355 and I think there are a few trends that, 66 00:02:25,355 --> 00:02:26,555 that we have our eyes on 67 00:02:26,555 --> 00:02:28,595 that are particularly relevant to what we're we are doing. 68 00:02:29,415 --> 00:02:32,115 You know, one is a trend around, um, what's happening 69 00:02:32,115 --> 00:02:33,595 with diversity, equity, and inclusion. 70 00:02:34,885 --> 00:02:38,905 So back in 2016, in our community health needs assessment, 71 00:02:39,765 --> 00:02:41,945 um, uh, systemic racism 72 00:02:42,445 --> 00:02:45,945 and health disparities were identified as two 73 00:02:45,945 --> 00:02:50,225 of the five top health issues facing kids in our community 74 00:02:50,565 --> 00:02:52,505 by the members of our community as part of that assessment. 75 00:02:52,645 --> 00:02:54,625 And that was a real wake up for us. 76 00:02:55,005 --> 00:02:58,625 And, and really, so since then, since I've been here, uh, 77 00:02:58,675 --> 00:03:02,605 early 2017, we have made, um, diversity, equity 78 00:03:02,605 --> 00:03:05,885 and inclusion a, a priority, uh, for children's Minnesota. 79 00:03:07,475 --> 00:03:10,235 I think in the last few years, certainly in the aftermath 80 00:03:10,335 --> 00:03:12,155 of the killing of George Floyd 81 00:03:12,155 --> 00:03:13,395 by a Minneapolis police officer, 82 00:03:13,395 --> 00:03:15,475 which happened literally 12 blocks from 83 00:03:15,475 --> 00:03:17,715 where I am right now in our Minneapolis hospital. 84 00:03:18,495 --> 00:03:22,875 Um, we saw real, uh, um, increase in, in activity 85 00:03:23,055 --> 00:03:24,875 and commitment around diversity, equity, 86 00:03:24,875 --> 00:03:27,155 and inclusion, not only across our industry, 87 00:03:27,175 --> 00:03:28,315 but across, you know, other 88 00:03:28,315 --> 00:03:29,795 industries in our entire community. 89 00:03:29,795 --> 00:03:30,795 And it was really great 90 00:03:30,795 --> 00:03:33,675 because we found a lot of willing partners that wanted 91 00:03:33,675 --> 00:03:35,875 to work with us to address those issues 92 00:03:35,875 --> 00:03:37,235 that our community's been facing. 93 00:03:38,415 --> 00:03:40,195 And in the last year 94 00:03:40,195 --> 00:03:41,635 or so, we've really started to see, 95 00:03:41,875 --> 00:03:43,915 I would think a certain amount of pullback 96 00:03:43,915 --> 00:03:45,075 and retrenchment from that. 97 00:03:45,535 --> 00:03:48,675 The organizations talking less often, um, 98 00:03:48,765 --> 00:03:50,195 about diversity, equity, inclusion. 99 00:03:50,215 --> 00:03:52,115 We see the magnitude of the commitments 100 00:03:52,115 --> 00:03:54,515 that were made being paired back a little bit. 101 00:03:55,135 --> 00:03:58,555 We see other states where, where school districts and cities 102 00:03:58,615 --> 00:04:01,715 and states even are passing laws that limit the ability 103 00:04:01,715 --> 00:04:03,115 of organizations like ours 104 00:04:03,135 --> 00:04:06,075 to address this very real issue of health disparities. 105 00:04:06,135 --> 00:04:08,355 And, you know, the data are pretty clear. 106 00:04:08,435 --> 00:04:10,955 I mean, there are enormous health disparities, 107 00:04:11,235 --> 00:04:13,075 particularly among kids. 108 00:04:13,555 --> 00:04:15,075 Minnesota happens to be among the worst, 109 00:04:15,175 --> 00:04:16,435 but it is a national problem. 110 00:04:17,255 --> 00:04:20,595 And so this trend of sort of backing off from, 111 00:04:20,865 --> 00:04:23,555 from our efforts to address this, I think is something that, 112 00:04:23,935 --> 00:04:26,035 um, I view as some concern. 113 00:04:26,745 --> 00:04:30,035 I'll tell you that at Children's Minnesota, we are remain 114 00:04:30,035 --> 00:04:33,075 as committed as ever to advancing diversity, equity, 115 00:04:33,075 --> 00:04:37,475 and inclusion and, and serving the very diverse population, 116 00:04:37,655 --> 00:04:39,115 uh, that we have here in the Twin 117 00:04:39,115 --> 00:04:40,355 Cities and, and in the state. 118 00:04:40,975 --> 00:04:43,435 So that's one trend. Um, another trend 119 00:04:43,435 --> 00:04:45,435 that is I think is similarly concerning is the trend 120 00:04:45,435 --> 00:04:47,115 that we're seeing nationally around, uh, 121 00:04:47,115 --> 00:04:49,555 gender affirming care, particularly for . 122 00:04:51,065 --> 00:04:53,345 I, I think, um, uh, 123 00:04:53,985 --> 00:04:57,505 although we, you know, in my 35 year career in, in, 124 00:04:57,565 --> 00:05:01,385 in children's health, um, this is a relatively new issue 125 00:05:01,385 --> 00:05:03,305 that we are dealing with, but it's not a new 126 00:05:03,305 --> 00:05:04,705 thing, not a fad. 127 00:05:05,005 --> 00:05:06,825 Um, it's not something that all of a sudden started in, 128 00:05:06,845 --> 00:05:08,145 you know, the two thousands. 129 00:05:08,445 --> 00:05:11,825 Um, but our ability to talk about it 130 00:05:11,925 --> 00:05:14,305 and address it, I think is really accelerated. 131 00:05:15,085 --> 00:05:18,905 And, um, what I view as some concern is 132 00:05:18,905 --> 00:05:21,545 that this has gone from being a children's health issue 133 00:05:21,545 --> 00:05:24,225 to being a partisan political issue, um, that creates a lot 134 00:05:24,225 --> 00:05:25,785 of divisiveness, and again, 135 00:05:25,805 --> 00:05:30,305 seeing what's happening in some places, um, with limitations 136 00:05:30,305 --> 00:05:33,785 of access to, uh, gender affirming care that we know for, 137 00:05:34,285 --> 00:05:38,065 uh, for kids who are either transgender, gender diverse, 138 00:05:38,395 --> 00:05:42,905 non-binary, that, that, um, they have significant, uh, 139 00:05:42,905 --> 00:05:45,425 health issues that they need to address, 140 00:05:45,425 --> 00:05:47,385 including physical and mental health issues. 141 00:05:47,605 --> 00:05:50,665 And having lack of access to those resources, 142 00:05:51,165 --> 00:05:52,385 um, is harmful. 143 00:05:53,165 --> 00:05:55,745 So we have a gender health program here at Children's 144 00:05:55,865 --> 00:05:57,605 Minnesota that we've had for a number of years. 145 00:05:58,225 --> 00:06:00,845 Um, we are now starting to get, uh, 146 00:06:00,845 --> 00:06:02,805 we serve kids from throughout the state, um, 147 00:06:02,805 --> 00:06:04,525 but we are starting to get a lot of referrals from 148 00:06:04,525 --> 00:06:07,085 outside the state in response to efforts 149 00:06:07,145 --> 00:06:08,605 to limit access to that care. 150 00:06:09,385 --> 00:06:13,245 And, uh, you know, we can barely meet the needs of, 151 00:06:13,585 --> 00:06:15,605 of kids in our own community. 152 00:06:16,145 --> 00:06:18,925 And so seeing this trend nationally is concerning. 153 00:06:19,285 --> 00:06:21,565 I will tell you that, you know, the, the, the care 154 00:06:21,565 --> 00:06:24,605 that we provide is, um, it's evidence-based. 155 00:06:24,785 --> 00:06:26,005 It is consistent with 156 00:06:26,005 --> 00:06:27,765 and supported by, you know, 157 00:06:27,865 --> 00:06:30,645 all the major professional organizations, um, such 158 00:06:30,645 --> 00:06:32,325 as the American Academy of Pediatrics. 159 00:06:32,745 --> 00:06:35,725 And what's interesting is we've, within our own community, 160 00:06:35,725 --> 00:06:37,845 we've certainly had, uh, 161 00:06:37,845 --> 00:06:39,845 community members donors raise questions 162 00:06:39,845 --> 00:06:43,045 and concerns about it based on what they see in the media. 163 00:06:43,595 --> 00:06:44,845 When we sit down and talk with them 164 00:06:44,845 --> 00:06:49,405 and explain about gender affirming care, um, I find 165 00:06:49,405 --> 00:06:52,045 that they have a lot of misperceptions about what we do 166 00:06:52,045 --> 00:06:54,685 and don't do what it does and doesn't involve. 167 00:06:55,385 --> 00:07:00,205 And, uh, what I, what I hope to see the trend reversed to is 168 00:07:00,265 --> 00:07:02,805 to get away from the partisanship 169 00:07:02,825 --> 00:07:04,245 and to get down to that ability 170 00:07:04,305 --> 00:07:08,285 to have conversations grounded in facts, grounded in, in, 171 00:07:08,585 --> 00:07:10,485 uh, evidence grounded in reality. 172 00:07:11,145 --> 00:07:13,045 Uh, because when we do that, we find 173 00:07:13,045 --> 00:07:15,645 that we actually have a lot more common ground than I think 174 00:07:15,975 --> 00:07:17,885 we're seeing, uh, on the front pages 175 00:07:17,905 --> 00:07:19,165 of the papers and in social media. 176 00:07:20,025 --> 00:07:23,805 Um, and then the third trend I would say that, um, is, uh, 177 00:07:24,405 --> 00:07:25,925 probably one that you a lot of your, uh, 178 00:07:26,285 --> 00:07:27,965 interviewees probably addressed, 179 00:07:27,965 --> 00:07:29,205 and that's, you know, how we're, 180 00:07:29,205 --> 00:07:30,485 how are we thinking about the use 181 00:07:30,485 --> 00:07:32,365 of artificial intelligence in healthcare? 182 00:07:33,305 --> 00:07:38,205 And, um, you know, to me, I think there's certainly, 183 00:07:38,425 --> 00:07:40,725 um, a, a lot of concerns that have been raised. 184 00:07:41,065 --> 00:07:42,325 Um, but there's so much promise. 185 00:07:43,625 --> 00:07:47,405 And I think when, when we think about the use 186 00:07:47,405 --> 00:07:49,925 of artificial intelligence, whether for clinical 187 00:07:49,925 --> 00:07:53,285 or nonclinical tasks, I think about it in terms of 188 00:07:53,305 --> 00:07:55,445 how can it help us advance quality of care 189 00:07:56,225 --> 00:07:58,045 and thinking about quality holistically. 190 00:07:58,185 --> 00:07:59,965 In terms of the six domains 191 00:07:59,965 --> 00:08:01,765 of quality identified by the Institute of Medicine. 192 00:08:02,265 --> 00:08:05,365 The obvious ones are AI has the potential 193 00:08:05,365 --> 00:08:08,165 to really dramatically increase efficiency and timeliness, 194 00:08:08,785 --> 00:08:12,045 and there's certainly some evidence that it's, um, 195 00:08:13,075 --> 00:08:14,125 more effective, right? 196 00:08:14,185 --> 00:08:16,845 You studies that have shown, uh, AI tools 197 00:08:16,845 --> 00:08:19,165 that deliver greater diagnostic accuracy 198 00:08:19,165 --> 00:08:20,325 than a human clinician can. 199 00:08:20,965 --> 00:08:22,165 I think what we need to make sure is 200 00:08:22,165 --> 00:08:24,685 that we're also focusing on those other domains of quality, 201 00:08:24,755 --> 00:08:27,365 that we're focusing on safety, that we're focusing on 202 00:08:28,105 --> 00:08:30,605 patient-centeredness, and we're focusing on equity. 203 00:08:31,425 --> 00:08:33,725 But in my own opinion is if we do this right, 204 00:08:34,005 --> 00:08:36,885 I think we have the ability to really advance quality in all 205 00:08:36,885 --> 00:08:39,445 of those domains with the use of AI tools, 206 00:08:39,695 --> 00:08:40,765 again, done properly. 207 00:08:41,545 --> 00:08:45,605 And while I certainly understand and appreciate 208 00:08:45,625 --> 00:08:47,725 and agree with the concerns about equity 209 00:08:47,725 --> 00:08:51,245 and bias, human intelligence has been demonstrated 210 00:08:51,245 --> 00:08:52,925 to be a significantly biased tool. 211 00:08:52,985 --> 00:08:55,205 And if it's done right, I think we actually can use this 212 00:08:55,205 --> 00:08:57,205 as a way to address some of the biases 213 00:08:57,475 --> 00:08:59,005 that have been built into our 214 00:08:59,005 --> 00:09:00,245 healthcare system over decades. 215 00:09:01,735 --> 00:09:02,995 So those are my three trends. 216 00:09:04,975 --> 00:09:07,135 - Absolutely. I, I think, you know, it's so important 217 00:09:07,315 --> 00:09:10,295 as you laid out all of those trends there, looking at some 218 00:09:10,295 --> 00:09:12,855 of the DEI work and as you mentioned, keeping that front 219 00:09:12,855 --> 00:09:16,175 and center, even though in some ways, um, some organizations 220 00:09:16,235 --> 00:09:18,135 and states have been backing away from it. 221 00:09:18,155 --> 00:09:20,415 And then too, looking at the gender affirming care, 222 00:09:20,705 --> 00:09:23,855 which has become extremely controversial in some places. 223 00:09:24,615 --> 00:09:26,775 I can imagine, as you mentioned, having some 224 00:09:26,775 --> 00:09:29,295 of those conversations and being able to bring, you know, 225 00:09:29,295 --> 00:09:30,895 understanding to what you're doing 226 00:09:31,075 --> 00:09:34,175 and how important that is, children's healthcare, um, 227 00:09:34,355 --> 00:09:38,335 is extremely, um, helpful, um, for the community at large. 228 00:09:38,395 --> 00:09:42,135 And then AI as well, like you mentioned being something, um, 229 00:09:42,205 --> 00:09:44,695 that so many healthcare organizations are trying 230 00:09:44,695 --> 00:09:46,055 to understand and troubleshoot 231 00:09:46,055 --> 00:09:49,095 and figure out as, um, the technology evolves quickly 232 00:09:49,555 --> 00:09:52,095 and making sure they're using it appropriately in a way 233 00:09:52,095 --> 00:09:54,855 that, um, really can best serve their patients 234 00:09:54,875 --> 00:09:56,095 and, and teammates. 235 00:09:56,115 --> 00:09:59,175 Um, you know, big issues here, when you look at all 236 00:09:59,175 --> 00:10:01,735 of these things together, I, I think it really, um, 237 00:10:02,265 --> 00:10:05,175 stems into being able to care for your teams 238 00:10:05,235 --> 00:10:08,455 and community, um, in a really, really important way. 239 00:10:08,875 --> 00:10:11,695 I'm wondering, you know, for the, um, as, 240 00:10:11,695 --> 00:10:12,895 as you were mentioning DEI 241 00:10:12,895 --> 00:10:16,495 and then the gender affirming care as well, how do you, um, 242 00:10:16,495 --> 00:10:20,255 really make sure that, you know, your teams feel supported, 243 00:10:20,395 --> 00:10:24,175 um, through, you know, some of these challenging times, um, 244 00:10:24,635 --> 00:10:26,015 as some of these issues 245 00:10:26,075 --> 00:10:30,495 and areas are, you know, kind of have become politicized 246 00:10:30,555 --> 00:10:31,815 as you mentioned, um, 247 00:10:31,995 --> 00:10:35,015 and really, you know, they can understand that, um, 248 00:10:35,445 --> 00:10:37,935 what your philosophy around it is at Children's Minnesota 249 00:10:38,115 --> 00:10:40,975 and how they can be supported in moving forward, um, 250 00:10:41,125 --> 00:10:42,175 with that philosophy? 251 00:10:43,285 --> 00:10:47,055 - Yeah, I think it comes down to being rooted in our vision 252 00:10:47,115 --> 00:10:48,255 and mission and values. 253 00:10:48,595 --> 00:10:50,935 You know, our vision is to be every family's essential 254 00:10:50,935 --> 00:10:52,495 partner in raising healthier children. 255 00:10:53,435 --> 00:10:54,655 And when I talk about that, 256 00:10:55,375 --> 00:10:57,135 starting from new employee orientation, I say, 257 00:10:57,135 --> 00:10:59,295 when we say every family, we mean every family, 258 00:10:59,825 --> 00:11:01,895 every family, no matter who they are, no matter 259 00:11:01,895 --> 00:11:03,615 what they look like, no matter where they're from, no matter 260 00:11:03,615 --> 00:11:05,375 what language they speak, no matter how, 261 00:11:05,525 --> 00:11:06,615 whether they can pay 262 00:11:06,615 --> 00:11:08,255 for their healthcare, we mean every family. 263 00:11:08,995 --> 00:11:11,095 And so when we rooted in that, then, then 264 00:11:11,245 --> 00:11:13,735 that drives the why do we care about 265 00:11:13,735 --> 00:11:15,135 diversity, equity, and inclusion? 266 00:11:15,395 --> 00:11:18,015 Why are we caring about making sure that, um, 267 00:11:18,065 --> 00:11:19,855 we're providing gender affirming care? 268 00:11:20,315 --> 00:11:21,975 Um, and, and all the other things we do, 269 00:11:21,975 --> 00:11:23,255 it's rooted in our why 270 00:11:23,755 --> 00:11:26,295 and in our values of, of, you know, 271 00:11:26,295 --> 00:11:27,575 being respectful and inclusive. 272 00:11:28,555 --> 00:11:29,655 And so, um, 273 00:11:29,805 --> 00:11:32,215 that goes a long way towards helping people understand 274 00:11:32,395 --> 00:11:34,055 and then, you know, demonstrating 275 00:11:34,055 --> 00:11:37,015 that it is actually truly important to the organization 276 00:11:37,015 --> 00:11:38,335 and not just something that we say. 277 00:11:39,115 --> 00:11:43,215 And when we look at our strategic scorecard of, uh, 278 00:11:43,275 --> 00:11:44,895 how are we measuring progress against our 279 00:11:45,135 --> 00:11:46,215 strategy, we have six metrics. 280 00:11:46,875 --> 00:11:48,535 Two of those six metrics are related 281 00:11:48,595 --> 00:11:49,855 to diversity, equity, and inclusion. 282 00:11:49,955 --> 00:11:51,455 One is around the diversity of our workforce, 283 00:11:51,595 --> 00:11:54,125 and one is around decreasing disparities 284 00:11:54,185 --> 00:11:55,445 for patients within our system. 285 00:11:56,105 --> 00:11:59,605 And so, and you know, that is something that we report on 286 00:11:59,785 --> 00:12:01,525 to our staff at our town hall meetings. 287 00:12:01,525 --> 00:12:03,165 How are we doing on our strategic metrics? 288 00:12:03,705 --> 00:12:06,605 Um, for our leaders, part of their compensation is tied to, 289 00:12:06,945 --> 00:12:08,525 uh, meeting those organizational goals. 290 00:12:09,065 --> 00:12:11,765 So I think rooting it in why, you know, in the why 291 00:12:11,785 --> 00:12:12,845 of Children's Minnesota 292 00:12:13,225 --> 00:12:16,045 and demonstrating that we are serious about it, I think are, 293 00:12:16,305 --> 00:12:18,685 are the two approaches that we've taken. 294 00:12:20,605 --> 00:12:21,615 - Well, that's great to hear. 295 00:12:21,675 --> 00:12:24,135 And you know, now zeroing in a little bit more, 296 00:12:24,385 --> 00:12:26,095 could you tell me a little bit about a project 297 00:12:26,155 --> 00:12:28,455 or initiative that you're most proud of from the last year? 298 00:12:30,725 --> 00:12:32,865 - Um, yeah, maybe I'll, I'll have a couple 299 00:12:32,925 --> 00:12:34,505 and I'll, I'll tie it back to 300 00:12:34,505 --> 00:12:35,905 what I previously talked about. 301 00:12:36,045 --> 00:12:38,985 So again, DEI has been a priority for our organization. 302 00:12:39,145 --> 00:12:41,625 I already told you that It makes up one third of our 303 00:12:42,185 --> 00:12:43,265 strategic scorecard and, 304 00:12:43,285 --> 00:12:46,425 and one third of our, um, incentive, uh, plan. 305 00:12:47,045 --> 00:12:49,025 Um, and we've made a lot of progress on that. 306 00:12:49,245 --> 00:12:50,545 So on having, 307 00:12:50,845 --> 00:12:53,185 and we know, I mean, there, there's, the, the thing is, 308 00:12:53,185 --> 00:12:55,185 there's research evidence that shows 309 00:12:55,775 --> 00:12:58,225 that if you have a more diverse healthcare workforce 310 00:12:58,295 --> 00:13:00,465 that better reflects the community that you're serving, 311 00:13:00,925 --> 00:13:02,905 you will do a better job of serving that community. 312 00:13:02,965 --> 00:13:04,025 You will have better outcomes, 313 00:13:04,025 --> 00:13:05,345 you'll have fewer disparities. 314 00:13:05,925 --> 00:13:07,905 And so, you know, we're not just doing this 315 00:13:07,905 --> 00:13:10,465 because, you know, it's the woke thing to do. 316 00:13:10,465 --> 00:13:12,225 We're doing it because the evidence says 317 00:13:12,225 --> 00:13:14,265 that this is the way we're going to get better outcomes. 318 00:13:14,965 --> 00:13:16,745 And so we've made significant efforts 319 00:13:16,765 --> 00:13:18,145 and we've made significant strides. 320 00:13:18,165 --> 00:13:22,265 So in 2019, 19% of our workforce identified as people 321 00:13:22,265 --> 00:13:25,705 of color, we had a goal of increasing that to 34%. 322 00:13:26,205 --> 00:13:28,905 Uh, by the end of next year, we're now at 30%. 323 00:13:29,085 --> 00:13:30,545 So just in that short period of time, 324 00:13:30,635 --> 00:13:32,265 we've made a tremendous, 325 00:13:32,405 --> 00:13:36,545 and we've done it through, um, more expansive recruitment 326 00:13:37,125 --> 00:13:39,225 and better job of, of retention. 327 00:13:39,645 --> 00:13:41,465 And, um, I'm very proud of that progress. 328 00:13:41,465 --> 00:13:44,905 And that's true at all levels. So, uh, we went from 0% 329 00:13:44,905 --> 00:13:47,585 of our executive team to one third of our executive team 330 00:13:48,145 --> 00:13:50,745 identifying as people of color, 30% of the next level 331 00:13:50,745 --> 00:13:53,145 of leaders, and again, 30% of the entire organization. 332 00:13:53,285 --> 00:13:55,425 So I'm very proud of that, very proud 333 00:13:55,425 --> 00:13:58,105 of the progress we've made on, on decreasing disparities. 334 00:13:58,805 --> 00:14:03,425 Um, we have, uh, identified three clinical outcomes 335 00:14:03,695 --> 00:14:06,665 that, uh, where we have gaps based on race, 336 00:14:07,205 --> 00:14:08,625 and we've combined those into 337 00:14:08,625 --> 00:14:09,985 what we call our health equity index. 338 00:14:10,965 --> 00:14:12,905 And each year we have a goal 339 00:14:12,905 --> 00:14:14,945 of decreasing the disparities in those outcomes, 340 00:14:14,945 --> 00:14:17,505 those outcomes being immunizations, being up to date, 341 00:14:17,965 --> 00:14:19,345 asthma being under good control 342 00:14:19,765 --> 00:14:21,225 and a patient experience measure. 343 00:14:22,325 --> 00:14:25,025 And through a variety of efforts, we have managed 344 00:14:25,085 --> 00:14:26,305 to narrow those gaps. 345 00:14:27,385 --> 00:14:28,745 Honestly, we still have a lot of work to do, 346 00:14:28,745 --> 00:14:30,025 we all do in this industry, 347 00:14:30,085 --> 00:14:32,225 but I'm proud of the fact that we're focusing on it 348 00:14:32,225 --> 00:14:34,585 and that we've started to move the needle on that. 349 00:14:35,325 --> 00:14:38,185 Um, and you know, these become mutually reinforcing. 350 00:14:38,185 --> 00:14:41,105 It's kind of interesting. Um, you know, people, 351 00:14:41,225 --> 00:14:42,865 I talk about this with colleagues 352 00:14:42,865 --> 00:14:45,505 and they say, well, how did you make such huge strides in, 353 00:14:45,525 --> 00:14:46,745 in diversity of your workforce? 354 00:14:46,965 --> 00:14:48,345 And how are you recruiting people? 355 00:14:48,365 --> 00:14:52,405 And I say, you know, not uncommonly at 356 00:14:52,405 --> 00:14:53,605 new employee orientation. 357 00:14:54,025 --> 00:14:56,365 People say to me, I came here 358 00:14:56,365 --> 00:14:57,565 to work at Children's Minnesota 359 00:14:57,565 --> 00:15:01,045 because of the stand you are taking on health equity 360 00:15:01,045 --> 00:15:03,285 because of the way you are showing up in the community 361 00:15:03,465 --> 00:15:07,365 to advocate and to, to be sincere about this. 362 00:15:07,625 --> 00:15:08,885 And that's what attracted me here. 363 00:15:09,105 --> 00:15:11,445 So these become mutually reinforcing things. 364 00:15:12,385 --> 00:15:15,805 And then we have not really done much with ai, 365 00:15:15,865 --> 00:15:18,485 but we have done some, I think, interesting things 366 00:15:18,485 --> 00:15:20,725 with technology in the last year that, um, 367 00:15:20,945 --> 00:15:22,205 are really helping us to deliver 368 00:15:22,205 --> 00:15:23,365 better outcomes for patients. 369 00:15:24,465 --> 00:15:25,845 And I'm gonna highlight two of them. 370 00:15:25,985 --> 00:15:27,165 One, actually one 371 00:15:27,165 --> 00:15:30,245 of our physicians talked about on your past not too long 372 00:15:30,265 --> 00:15:32,045 ago, um, uh, Dr. 373 00:15:32,045 --> 00:15:35,605 Mark Bergeron, who's the medical director of our, um, uh, 374 00:15:35,605 --> 00:15:36,845 neonatal telehealth program. 375 00:15:37,545 --> 00:15:38,605 And we've instituted 376 00:15:38,605 --> 00:15:40,285 what we call our kid experts at home program 377 00:15:40,315 --> 00:15:41,925 that has allowed us to discharge 378 00:15:42,685 --> 00:15:45,805 patients from our neonatal ICU earlier with 379 00:15:46,025 --> 00:15:47,205 as good or better outcomes. 380 00:15:47,425 --> 00:15:50,525 So decreasing length of stay, getting them home sooner, um, 381 00:15:50,945 --> 00:15:53,565 and, and still on track to, to have as good 382 00:15:53,565 --> 00:15:57,325 or better outcomes, um, despite that through the use of, 383 00:15:57,465 --> 00:15:59,205 of remote monitoring and telehealth. 384 00:15:59,585 --> 00:16:00,805 And that's been really exciting 385 00:16:01,145 --> 00:16:02,765 and that opens us up 386 00:16:02,765 --> 00:16:05,285 to then having really good conversations with payers 387 00:16:05,285 --> 00:16:09,325 because we have a mutual interest in keeping kids outta the 388 00:16:09,485 --> 00:16:11,445 hospital, um, when they don't need to be. 389 00:16:11,585 --> 00:16:12,765 And so that's been exciting. 390 00:16:13,465 --> 00:16:14,765 And then we opened, uh, 391 00:16:14,965 --> 00:16:17,845 a new intraoperative MRI suite last year, 392 00:16:18,385 --> 00:16:21,485 and while intraoperative MRI is not necessarily itself a new 393 00:16:21,485 --> 00:16:23,165 technology, we've actually had it for some time. 394 00:16:23,985 --> 00:16:28,765 Um, our kit experts had, um, constraints 395 00:16:28,765 --> 00:16:31,005 that they were discovering with the way it was being used, 396 00:16:31,065 --> 00:16:33,965 and they came up with a really innovative solution, um, 397 00:16:34,065 --> 00:16:35,205 to how we configure this. 398 00:16:35,205 --> 00:16:37,325 And it's actually, it's, we worked with a, a, 399 00:16:38,005 --> 00:16:39,885 a company to help us build this. 400 00:16:39,885 --> 00:16:41,605 It's only, it's the first one in North America 401 00:16:41,605 --> 00:16:42,765 with this configuration 402 00:16:42,955 --> 00:16:47,485 that allows us across a three room suite to have an MRI 403 00:16:47,485 --> 00:16:52,365 that is mounted on a rail system, so it can move from room 404 00:16:52,425 --> 00:16:55,125 to room, depending on the clinical circumstance. 405 00:16:55,145 --> 00:16:57,205 We can either move the patient into the scanner 406 00:16:57,205 --> 00:16:59,485 or the scanner to the patient without having 407 00:16:59,545 --> 00:17:01,805 to leave the operating room, without having 408 00:17:01,805 --> 00:17:04,125 to break anesthesia or, or sterile conditions, 409 00:17:04,705 --> 00:17:08,765 and, um, enables them to do imaging from brain all the way 410 00:17:08,765 --> 00:17:10,205 through spine in a way 411 00:17:10,205 --> 00:17:11,885 that's more effective and more efficient. 412 00:17:12,025 --> 00:17:13,485 And it's very exciting to, 413 00:17:13,545 --> 00:17:14,845 to see the growth in that program. 414 00:17:16,955 --> 00:17:18,215 - That's amazing. Wow. 415 00:17:18,575 --> 00:17:21,895 I, I can imagine, you know, it's just such a, um, 416 00:17:22,355 --> 00:17:24,575 big game changer, I guess, to be able to do that 417 00:17:24,575 --> 00:17:26,815 with the MRI machine and certainly everything else. 418 00:17:26,875 --> 00:17:29,015 You mentioned it, it's inspiring to know 419 00:17:29,015 --> 00:17:30,695 that people are paying attention 420 00:17:30,835 --> 00:17:33,175 to the work you're doing in the community with health equity 421 00:17:33,395 --> 00:17:36,575 and how, you know, you're really framing your stance on some 422 00:17:36,575 --> 00:17:38,975 of these issues, and that is attractive to folks. 423 00:17:39,195 --> 00:17:42,015 Um, that was gonna be one of my questions is, you know, 424 00:17:42,015 --> 00:17:45,295 what do you feel like, um, you, you really are unique in, 425 00:17:45,315 --> 00:17:48,095 in terms of being able to make such a significant process 426 00:17:48,435 --> 00:17:50,605 or progress, excuse me, towards your goal 427 00:17:50,605 --> 00:17:51,725 of a more diverse workforce? 428 00:17:51,825 --> 00:17:54,405 And especially on the leadership side of things, I think, 429 00:17:54,785 --> 00:17:58,685 um, you know, there's a lot of, uh, um, organizations 430 00:17:58,685 --> 00:18:00,285 that would like to be in a similar position. 431 00:18:00,305 --> 00:18:02,245 And so it's great to hear that that's been a, 432 00:18:02,325 --> 00:18:05,125 a really crucial part of how you've been able to grow 433 00:18:05,125 --> 00:18:07,245 and develop over the last three or four years. 434 00:18:07,915 --> 00:18:09,485 - Yeah. - Excellent. 435 00:18:09,515 --> 00:18:11,925 Well, you know, before we wrap up here, I'm wondering, 436 00:18:11,925 --> 00:18:15,525 you know, considering we've talked a lot about DEI as well 437 00:18:15,525 --> 00:18:17,165 as AI and some other areas, 438 00:18:17,745 --> 00:18:18,845 how are you thinking about growth 439 00:18:18,845 --> 00:18:20,085 and development for the future? 440 00:18:20,195 --> 00:18:21,325 What do you see as being ahead 441 00:18:21,325 --> 00:18:22,805 for the next two, three or five years? 442 00:18:25,015 --> 00:18:27,225 - Yeah, you know, when, when we think about growth, 443 00:18:27,245 --> 00:18:29,585 we often just think about it in terms of size, right? 444 00:18:29,615 --> 00:18:31,305 More revenue, more patients, et cetera. 445 00:18:31,305 --> 00:18:32,825 And that is certainly a dimension of growth. 446 00:18:32,845 --> 00:18:35,825 We are thinking about how can we serve more patients, um, 447 00:18:35,845 --> 00:18:37,345 how are we thinking about, you know, 448 00:18:37,735 --> 00:18:39,745 what services we offer and where we offer them. 449 00:18:39,765 --> 00:18:41,985 And, and we've certainly got plans for growth in that way. 450 00:18:42,825 --> 00:18:45,265 I also just think about growth in terms of, um, 451 00:18:45,355 --> 00:18:46,505 depth, greater depth. 452 00:18:46,805 --> 00:18:50,225 And I've always believed that one of the things 453 00:18:50,225 --> 00:18:53,305 that distinguishes a children's hospital is that 454 00:18:53,305 --> 00:18:55,545 as the kid experts, we recognize 455 00:18:55,545 --> 00:18:57,825 that kids are not just small adults, they have unique needs, 456 00:18:58,185 --> 00:18:59,825 physical, emotional, social needs, 457 00:19:00,365 --> 00:19:02,945 and we have the infrastructure 458 00:19:03,005 --> 00:19:04,825 and the services to meet those needs. 459 00:19:05,245 --> 00:19:07,025 And so that really is about the experience 460 00:19:07,025 --> 00:19:08,185 of being in a children's hospital. 461 00:19:08,245 --> 00:19:10,945 And I think what we have in line for the next 10 years is 462 00:19:10,945 --> 00:19:12,025 to really double down on that 463 00:19:12,565 --> 00:19:15,665 and really make the Children's Minnesota experience one 464 00:19:15,665 --> 00:19:18,185 that is highly differentiated. 465 00:19:18,445 --> 00:19:19,625 Um, you know, 466 00:19:19,785 --> 00:19:23,905 a really comprehensively outstanding experience, you know, 467 00:19:24,045 --> 00:19:26,385 in all encounters, whether they're clinic visits 468 00:19:26,645 --> 00:19:30,665 or appointment making or, or referrals for our patients 469 00:19:30,665 --> 00:19:32,145 and families and for our staff 470 00:19:32,205 --> 00:19:33,545 and for the rest of our community. 471 00:19:33,925 --> 00:19:35,905 And so that's something that we will be working on the next 472 00:19:35,905 --> 00:19:40,625 10 years is growing, um, our experience as one 473 00:19:40,625 --> 00:19:42,665 of the ways that we will also then grow to be able 474 00:19:42,665 --> 00:19:45,745 to serve more patients and, and, um, uh, 475 00:19:45,745 --> 00:19:46,745 and more of our community. 476 00:19:48,615 --> 00:19:50,255 - I love that. Dr. Gole, thank you so much 477 00:19:50,255 --> 00:19:51,735 for joining us on the podcast today. 478 00:19:51,735 --> 00:19:53,815 This has been such a fun and interesting conversation, 479 00:19:53,875 --> 00:19:55,735 and I look forward to connecting with you again soon. 480 00:19:56,455 --> 00:19:58,085 - Thank you, Laura. It's Belin been a pleasure.