- Tom, we're back. It's shining.
- We're in - Studio. The sun, the shining the sun is back.
The spring is, is here it is. We're in studio.
And we're talking about culture.
- And we are talking about culture.
And, and I, yeah, go ahead. And
- I, I just heard that, um,
your daughter got a pet, didn't she?
She got a, a cat.
- Wow. Really gets around. You know, .
I didn't, I didn't. It's in the New York Times.
I believe that . Uh, yes she did. She, uh,
- A new member of the - Family.
It's a new member of the family.
They have, uh, two children, uh, a a, a young, a lady who's,
uh, about to turn 10 and,
and a young man who's going to turn five this summer.
And now they have a 1-year-old, um, kitten
or a cat, I guess, at one.
And, um, and just joined the family. Yeah.
- Terrific. - And they, and they're very happy.
And the cat can go anywhere it wants pretty much.
And do anything it wants as cats will. They, they,
- That's not gonna change. No.
- Whether you want 'em to or not, actually,
the cat has gone many areas They do not want it to cats
and did that almost like
day one, because that's what a, that
- Immediately Yeah.
That's, that's how they know they have a cat and not a dog.
- Absolutely. It Oh, absolutely.
It actually figured out how to climb into the bottom
of the oven and up behind it.
Uh, now there's no advantage to doing that,
but it's a cat and it just went
'cause I can And then got stuck.
And got stuck. Yeah. , of course.
- It was like a paw flailing.
And what's the, what's the name of the cat?
- The name? Well, it's called Gigi,
but the name is actually g Gordon Kitty .
Which, which for those of you who are not familiar with the,
um, the history of,
of the Watergate era in the United States
around Richard Nixon's presidency.
Um, one of the infamous, uh, contributor to that, all of
that, that ended up with a president having to resign
for the only time in the history of the United States, um,
was a gentleman by the name of g Gordon Liddy.
And as we do this podcast, um, Mr.
Liddy has just passed away with a, oh,
I don't know, within the last two weeks.
Yeah. Just in this last week. Yeah. Yeah.
- And then they got a cat.
- And then they got a cat. But they
already gotten the cat before, before that.
Yeah. He, it was, the cat was named prior to Mr.
Liddy actually, um, shedding the, the, uh, the human coil.
- But there are reasons for these
- Things.
Well, yes. 'cause now he no longer was needed.
So they had another thing that was a pain in the neck.
- So now he, he's now, he's now he's taken over the,
the body of this incarnate. Well,
- Let's hope not, but it's possible. Yeah, it's possible.
- And and - They have, especially with cats. It's possible.
- It's possible, of course. Yes.
- Right now. And the, and the interesting thing with Mr.
Liddy also is that he, not the cat, but Liddy, not kitty.
The, that he went on to have
- The human, the human Liddy, not the kitty kitty Liddy.
- Sure. Right. Yes. I don't, well, I don't know
- What he said. And
- No one does.
No. Okay. Um, anyway, was that he,
he ended up having like multiple careers
and doing quite well for himself, which is really kind
of amazing since, and,
and never, never spoke a word of regret of the things he did
during the time of, of the Watergate era. He
- Didn't have any, - He didn't have any, Nope.
And, um, which makes him a very dangerous human being.
. Yeah. 'cause you just don't care.
Then what do you do? You
- Know?
But Tom don't speak ill of the dead.
- No, I will, I certainly will. And he deserves it.
And he probably would
agree if he was sitting here
right now. He had his own podcast.
- Podcast. Exactly.
But, but the whole idea that your daughter as now,
uh, a new member of the family. That's right. A
- Feline, a feline fe brought,
bought an animal into the house,
- Made me think of a wonderful conversation.
I think we, we, we might have Uhhuh , the,
the what's the cultural piece to
- This?
Because, well, you know, we've spoken just a little bit
about, about certain animals around the world,
but I don't think we've really
discussed pets around the world.
- Pets around the world. Is there a cultural issue to
- That?
The world ?
Are there, is there, is there ever not a cultural aspect
- To it?
Because I am Dean Foster,
- And I'm Tom Peterson, and - This is Oops,
- Your culture showing, - Showing.
And we also have Torin with us
- Too.
Oh yeah. He's our pet.
- .
- What, what? , sorry. Torin. I,
- I, it's, - He's, um, yes, he's with us in studio again.
This is, this is crazy stuff.
- And, and to you grew up with pets, didn't you? I did, yes.
- You had - Numerous. Yeah, we had a, we had a few,
or I had a couple when I was Well, that's not true.
I think Bananas and Tuesday, which are cats. Yes.
Were still around. When I was very, when
- Young.
You were very, very young. Okay. So
- I don't remember them.
- No, - But I remember our cat chicken. Yeah.
- Or your chicken named cat.
- And the chicken named Cat. Yeah. Game
- Game later, of course, as you do
- Uhhuh and our dog named Bailey. Yeah. Who
- Was very cute.
Well, there was also the cat named Lester,
- Right? That's right. Lester. Yep.
- Yep. And there was Fox as well.
Although Fox was an outdoor cat.
- Okay. Again, when I was young.
- Yeah. Yeah. - And,
and then there was also the fox named Cat
- .
There was, we had, we had chicken in the fox did,
- This is an interesting pattern.
You constantly named an animal after another animal.
- Yes. Well, that's right. Uhhuh.
- , because they name
- Resemble, there's actually a reason for that.
But it would just bore you to tears.
So, um, well, let's move
- On then. ,
- Let's move on.
- And I'm thinking, okay, it's always cats or dogs, cats
or dogs, cats or dogs here pretty much in the us Right?
These seem to be the predominant, you know? Yeah.
And there are certain cultural, um, patterns to this,
because I remember reading that, um,
as the country became more
and more urbanized, um, cats become the preferred animal
because they don't take as much attention.
Hmm. You can leave them in the apartment.
- I think there may have been another reason too.
And, and then, because you're talking
the industrial revolution. No,
- I'm talking about much more recently than that.
- Ah, okay. Yeah. Well,
- Absolutely recent, recent urbanization.
- I see. Okay. Yeah. Right. - Okay.
But the cat was always in the house
because they kept the rats away.
- That's, that's - The other
- History.
Throughout history. And, and I think in the, in the,
in the beginning of the Augusto revolution,
when the urban areas really started to grow, uh,
that became a huge factor.
But it also had been a huge factor on the farms.
- Yes. The barn cat. Yeah.
Was in the barn because the mousers, the mousers. Yeah.
And you didn't feed these animals. No.
'cause you wanted them to live off the mice. That's right.
- Yeah. But, but also that's a working animal.
It's, it's almost like the cats on the farms
for the most part.
Were, were like the horses, you know?
It's, it's, they were, they were to do work of some kind,
whether it was carrying humans around
or it was pulling a plow,
or it was something like that. Turning
- A wheel.
- Yeah. And Yeah, exactly. Or
- Inventing the computer.
There was this horse, the horse, yeah.
Love that horse in, in the stable.
He was sitting, burning the midnight oil,
just working on those.
- He was amazing. Working - On those.
- What was his name? Ed - Zeroes and ones, something
- Like that.
Something, yeah. Anyway,
you couldn't shut 'em up, that's all I know.
. But, but, so they would, it
- Was a lot of horse feathers.
- , we moving quickly. . But
- To your point, Tom.
Oh, can a working animal? I had a point. Hold on.
- Yeah. Oh, okay. Go - Ahead. Yes.
Well, I, I'm taking a point from what you're saying.
Thank you. Bet. Yeah. Can a working animal be
defined as a pet?
- Yeah. See, I don't think so. So,
- No.
- Is your cow your pet? Probably not. Could it be it?
I guess it could be, but then you have
to treat it significantly different
than most cows get treated. Right.
- So I think the definition of a pet is
where you simply have an animal for affection.
Yep. Uh, to, to take this place of, um,
an object of affection,
- Basically.
Yes. I think a company, uh, for especially people
who might live alone, might need it
to just give them someone something else around.
- And then you have that strange category of animals
that provide emotional support,
where one could make the case that they are working animals,
not necessarily pets.
- You could, - But they're somewhere in between.
- Right. Yeah. Because that's, that's almost like getting a,
- You still love them like a pet.
- Well, yeah. I think, you know, there's a lot of talk now.
People growing older and living longer,
and in some cases needing can't,
they can't really live by themselves.
So there's a whole industry that is built around that,
where people come in and, and, and spend a lot of time,
or in fact, live with older people in order to, um,
give them support and take help, take care of them,
but also emotional support.
And in doing so, they, I'm sure there's an attachment there,
at least from the person who is being taken care of.
And I'm thinking that those animals offer that as well.
Now, is there going to be a give and take on that?
I think so. I think those emotional, um,
support animals are going to both.
I mean, aren't they going to get some sort of,
whatever animals get out of that,
they're still gonna get out of it?
- Well, they get food and care and, and attention.
And attention, yeah. And they
- Give back attention.
- Right, right. - And what we perceive to be, um, love
and understanding and appreciation.
- But here's a cultural thing.
It, in the US it's mainly been,
therefore by the definition
of a pet not being a working animal.
Right. With the exception of cats on the farm and,
and the mousers and such.
Right. Um, it's basically been dogs and, and cats.
- Yeah. I would say in the
United States, it's primarily dogs. And,
- And that's, and the cultural thing is
that different cultures have different animals as pets
using the pet as a definition. Sure. First
- Of all, do they even have pets too?
- Places don't. Well, that's, yeah. Don't, yeah.
It, it, it, it, there's the presumption
that you are economically as a society, uh, capable
of enabling a critical number of people, the economic,
uh, privilege of being able to keep animals strictly for,
strictly for em, emotional and, and affectionate reasons.
And for nothing else. Sure. Not for food, not for working.
So that already eliminates a lot of cultures,
because in many cultures, I have an animal
because I'm gonna ultimately eat them, or
because they're do providing some sort of work,
or they're providing some sort of food, you know?
So I don't eat the cow until it's given me all the milk,
and then we'll slaughter the cow and, and,
and throughout human history Wow.
I think human history,
this has been the world of animals. You're
- Correct. Yes.
- But now it's, so the whole idea of a pet is kind of a, a,
a a on, on a mass scale, kind of a recent development.
I think all throughout human history, elites did have pets.
- Well, we know the Egyptians revered cats. Right.
And, and it, but, but, but probably from what you're saying,
and I think this is what has been found, is
that they can trace back that, that, that the pharaohs and,
and might have have a cat or,
or the family of the pharaohs might have some sort of cat.
And it was, and was it, did it represent a God?
I'm not sure in. Yes.
- Yes. I thought it did. It did. I don't remember the name
of the Egyptian God.
But it did represent a God Yes. A very powerful God.
- Right. And, and so in some cases, they've been mummified
and buried, uh, in some of the pyramids and,
and other tombs that they've found, I believe.
And, um, and so, and,
and in that case, I don't know, is that, again,
are we crossing a line of, of pet to actually something
that's doing something for them?
It's, it's offering them some sort of eternity
that they are, um, getting from the pet.
- Well, I remember in, in China, I was walking through, um,
a kind of a flea market, um, in, in Shanghai.
And there were lots of interesting things there
that were catching my eye.
I love these outdoor flea markets.
And there was a little box,
and it had what looked to me like a screen on the cover,
and the cover would slide forward and back.
So I'm looking at it, and
because it had a screen on it, I'm thinking they,
if you flip the cover back,
you must have kept something alive inside it.
Hmm. And then you would close it up,
and the thing inside it could live
through the air, with the air Sure.
From Peter screen. And I found out
that this was a cricket box.
Ah. And the cricket in Chinese culture was always a,
um, a bringer of good luck.
So, but it was a live cricket.
And you would keep a live cricket in Ms. Little cricket box
and keep the cricket box with you
as you walked, spent your day.
I mean, you walked around, you know, and, and,
but this brought luck.
So, I mean, was it a pet? Huh?
Did you keep the cricket because you were affectionate
with it, or, yeah.
Or did you keep the cricket because it was
- 'cause it brought you good luck, or
- You believed it brought you good luck.
Yeah. So you, yeah. So you fed it, you know? Right.
And you gave it air and water and,
- And you actually kept it and,
and took responsibility for it for that reason.
- By Jiminy, you did .
- Okay. Wow. Wow.
Um, that, okay. That's, that's kind of interesting.
'cause you know, my first reaction to it,
and this is very cultural reaction, I believe, is that, um,
no, you don't, you don't have affection for it,
but maybe you do.
Maybe you do. Yeah.
I mean, just, and maybe the cricket does for you also,
my other reaction to that is how long do crickets live?
- Yeah. - I, I don't, I think you got a limited
time span before.
- So just when you get, it's just when you
get bored with it, .
Right. You open it up one day
and it's Cricket, Jiminy Jiminy, uh,
nothing's happening. ,
- According to the internet, about eight to 10 weeks.
That's it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay.
So, um, oh my gosh.
- Just enough time to breed, I guess.
- Yeah. - But not if it's in a box, but
- Right.
, it's, maybe that was,
maybe that's the problem with them.
Um, but again, if you're, if you're doing that,
maybe a little bit different, only
because crickets may have things that,
that consume crickets, I'm assuming they do.
And so the, like, birds
and stuff, so that the average lifespan is gonna be impacted
by a predator, as opposed to if it's living in a box with,
um, and getting whatever sustenance it needs. Yeah.
- Now you mentioned birds, you know,
and I'm thinking back now,
my very first pet was not a cat or a dog.
No, it was a bird. Hmm.
And one of the reasons was
because we lived in an apartment Mm-Hmm.
in an apartment building.
And my mother just did not want
to have a four footed creature walking through cat or dog.
Right, right. And, and didn't want the, it was too small.
Right. So, uh, uh, she allowed a bird in, in a small cage,
and it was a parakeet.
And, and we had Ricky the first, and then Ricky the second.
Wow. And I think we may have had a Ricky the third .
- At some. At some. Alright.
Now, now I got asked these questions.
did, did, um, was,
- And I remember the first one, Ricky.
The first was of the blue variety,
and then Ricky, the second was of green variety. Mm.
- Okay. Was, was, um, where, where did Ricky come from?
- Well, who knows? - I mean, I mean, the name not, yeah.
Oh, we don't know. Okay. No,
- I was too young.
I didn't ask. It sounded like a nice name. Okay.
That's the name the bird came with. Why, uh, why
- Did I - Go? Of
- Course, it's the bird's name.
Hello . Um, right. Well, he mentioned my pets before.
I also had fish
- And tropical fish, - But not for very long.
Yes. Because I did not take care of them very well.
- Well, they're very hard to take care of.
I think tropical fish is difficult.
Hey, I have a tropical fish story, which is very true.
- Is it - Cultural? No, it's not cultural at all. ,
- Then go for it.
That has to do, and please continue.
- I remember as a little kid, my grandmother told me
that we were gonna have a dinner that night,
and she wanted to let me know that
that sky was coming to dinner.
And he was an uncle of mine who I'd never met before.
And she said, and I'm telling you now,
because you have to be very polite with him.
He's gonna shake your hand,
and when you shake his hand,
you're gonna realize he's missing his fingers.
- And Okay. - And so I just want,
I remember my grandmother wanted me to know this, so I would
- George Kaufman play and No, no,
- I just, - For the four of you out there
who know who George Kaufman
- Is .
So, so of course I'm, I'm, I'm like the 6-year-old kid,
and I'm going, whoa,
I'm gonna meet this guy with no fingers.
Cool. And my grandmother told me to behave, you know,
so I meet him, and sure enough, he shakes my hand that night
and, and it's missing his fingers.
And all of them, I don't remember that detail.
- Oh, wow. Maybe
- He had a thumb.
There was, I don't know. But , you know,
without the thumb, he couldn't grab my
- Hand.
Well, that's true. Or you would've slid
right up to his elbow, which is
- Why some people have monkeys as pets, I guess.
- So you won't slide up to their elbow. Yeah.
- , they'll slide up to your elbow anyway.
Oh, okay. I see. And monkeys
- Now it's getting very, very strange.
. Go ahead.
- I asked my mother, - So you're holding this guy's elbow?
- Couldn't ask my grandmother. She wouldn't tell me.
I don't know. I had this, you know, don't,
she wasn't gonna tell me, but I asked.
- Oh, it's one of those unspeakable things in the family.
- Yes. Unspeakable family things.
But I felt comfortable enough to ask my mother
what ha what's with Uncle George? You know, like, he
- Has no face.
Was his real name George, the way we changed it to protect
- No, I just thought of it now because I couldn't remember
what his real name was.
That's fine. Never met him before.
Never met him again. Okay.
- Yeah. - It turned out he lost his fingers in the Amazon
because he went down to the Amazon looking
for gold Uhhuh at, at some point.
Huh. You know, he was one of these guys saw an opportunity.
Yeah. And, and he wasn't able to do any,
but he became the first importer
of tropical fish to the United States.
Oh. And while he was down in the Amazons in South America,
he discovered the piranhas. Oh.
- Oh, no. Oh, wow. I My hand hurts right now. Oh, yeah.
Oh, goodness.
So I guess you could say there was a cultural aspect
to it in the sense that he was going down there
and pilfering, uh, resources of that country in
- A grand colonialist tradition.
- Exactly. - Absolutely.
Exploiting whatever, whatever he could exploit.
- Well, he got his, or the piranhas got their just
dessert. That's
- True.
Now fast, fast forward to my career.
- I think it was, uh, lady Fingers
or Man Fingers in this case. Yes.
- Man. Fingers - ,
- Which are very different from Lady Fingers.
Yes. Fast forward to my career. Sure.
30 years later, I find myself down in the Amazons in Uhhuh,
the, the section of Venezuela.
Yes. Which is the, in, in, in,
it's the Amazon Uhhuh.
You think of Venezuela as the coast and Caracas.
But significant part of the country is in the Amazons.
And I am walking through an area where the, I'm
with a guide and he's, we have to cross a river.
And he said, now the way you cross a river safely when,
when there's the possibility of piranha in the river,
is you look for a waterfall
and then cross just before the waterfall.
So before it crests over the
- Rocks. Above the waterfall.
- Above the waterfall. Just cross it there.
Because they'll never be piranha by a waterfall. Oh.
Because they know that if they fall over the rocks Yeah,
- Yeah.
- They could die. So you can safely cross a piha infested
river by a
- Waterfall.
Interesting. Good to know. Yeah. Okay.
- Aren't you glad you tuned in already? Yeah. Really. Right.
- We're all learned something.
No, it's gonna save some people.
I'm sure. I, you know, I I think keep your fingers a lot
of , a lot of people with, uh, man
- Fingers, old lady fingers - As you like a lot of feet.
Were probably sacrificed to find that out, actually.
Um, well, I didn't think, no, not here. I think
- The development of human knowledge was, you know, over,
- Over things had to be sacrificed. Yeah.
- And just like the saying, you know,
it was a brave man to eat the first oyster. Right.
- . Right. Who then opened up, uh, an oyster bar,
I believe in Grand Central Station, I think it was.
- And why, why some people keep oysters as
- Pets.
That's right. . Well, thing thing.
And you can't beat the pearls, you know,
it's just, it's a, it's a side note. Well,
- It's a great company. Well then it's
- A working now it's a working scene.
That's true. Yeah. There you go. See? Wow.
- Yeah. But for one thing, you know,
you don't have to chase it around the room. Well,
- No.
Or it's very slow. Chase .
So let me, let me back up a tad here.
Uh, we, we ended up with piranhas in, in, in, in
- And pet - Oysters and, and then oysters and, um,
but if pet oysters, well, pet oysters, sure.
The, um, there was a pet rock too in the
United States, so I don't know if
- World - Or not for pet.
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot about
- That.
And what about the Chia Pet,
which wasn't an animal, it was a vegetable
- .
Well, or, or a person's head. It was, uh, right.
But the Chia Pet was just, well,
- The Chia Pet, if it was shaped like a person's head was,
then it was a vegetable that was being sold as an animal
that was really a human head.
- Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's weird. it,
- It, it, it needed a lot of marketing
- .
Very catchy jingle. So Yeah.
, don't just ignore the fact it's an animal
that's not an animal, but a vegetable, and a human.
It's good. They didn't go with that one. .
No, that was not it. I was respected.
Well, I don't think we have to
worry about getting sued on that one.
Yeah, we're Okay. ,
- You made the first few cuts, though, but ultimately close.
- Yeah, it was close. But story of my career, actually,
, um, when, um,
your culture showing, um,
and so is your foot, and so is my foot.
Uh, we're that close together. How amazing is that? .
Wow. Um, and I, okay. I'm off COVID. 19. No, no.
- We're not doing covid. - No. Um, but
- Some people do keep bats as pets.
- They do keep, some people keep bat as pets.
- I had - To . Wow. .
Uh, I'm sure they do .
I'm sure they do well in, if I'm not mistaken,
and tell me if I'm wrong, but don't you have a bat house?
- I do have a bat house. Mm.
Um, hanging on the exterior of the garage. Uhhuh
- .
- Uh, the problem with my bat house is that I wasn't able
to hang it high enough.
Okay. I needed to get up there with a ladder,
because if you put your bat house too
low, the bats won't come.
I see. It has to be at least, I think, nine or 10 feet up.
- Well, I've, I've heard
that often in the conversations, I believe. Sure.
- Yes. It very, very, - The bats need to be high. Right.
- At - Very boring. I went to many people cocktail parties.
I went to college with many people who were like, that
- Actually, .
And so you might ask,
why didn't I just hang the bat house high enough? Dean,
- Why didn't you hang the bat house high enough? I
- Was too lazy.
I don't wanna get the ladder. There
- You go.
The ladder. Fair enough. Sure. Yeah.
- , and I look at it every now and then,
and I go, you know, you should really hang
that higher. 'cause the bats will
- Come if you do do. Yeah.
- And, and why do you want the bats to come?
They, the mosquitoes.
- Okay. They do. So it's not to have them as pets.
Oh, no, no. They're, they're working animals
for No, they're working pets.
- They're working - Animals. Well, also, I think that, um,
if in, in reality, I believe if you actually look it up,
and maybe you could do this.
Okay. I believe that bats consume
for bats for, uh, for humans.
They consume an incredible number of mosquitoes
of each individual bat does,
however, in the overall numbers of mosquitoes,
they're a minor contributor to, to control of mosquitoes.
Yeah. I'm not looking that up. I buy that. Okay. Yeah.
So I sounded like I knew what I was about.
- That is very authoritative. So then even if
one buys a bat house,
- It's really not gonna make a difference. It's
- Not gonna make a difference.
You're gonna sit outside and you're gonna
- Scratching the, you're running the risk anyway.
Some bite, some bat biting your neck
and sucking all your blood out.
Mm-Hmm. . Sure.
But, you know, that's how you gotta take risks, as
- Opposed talking about, as opposed to getting a,
getting a mosquito bite.
Right. , which, which can give you dengue,
malaria, ua. What else
- Could you those things probably a lot.
Oh, man. Um, yeah.
So, no, I mean,
but also there are people who are bat specialists
and everything and, and find them fascinating.
And maybe they keep them as pets as well.
- I'm sure somebody does. - Yeah. Name three,
- .
You know, I, I don't,
but this whole idea of what kind
of animals constitute pets in different
cultures. Hey, Dean. You
- Know, what kind of animals, uh,
are considered pets in different cultures? .
- Well, it made me think we were talking about cats and dogs
and, you know, many cultures have religious prescriptions.
Again, prescriptions. Not prescriptions. Okay.
Prescriptions against certain animals.
- Okay. Mm-Hmm. - Like I'm thinking, um,
throughout much of the Middle East.
Mm-Hmm. Uh, which is, which is Islamic. Yes.
Um, the idea of having a dog as a pet Mm-Hmm.
Has traditionally been profane.
You, you don't, you don't write Right to Yeah. Thats right.
You spend some time in Jordan's. I did. And that's right.
Yep. Right. You, why would you bring a dirty
or an animal that, that lives outside
a four footed animal into the house?
The house is sacred and the house must be clean as possible.
Which, and, and,
and the, the, the traditional role of,
of the woman in these traditional cultures was
to keep the house as clean as possible.
So the last thing you wanna do is have
a dog inside the house.
Yes. This doesn't make,
it's gonna be defeating the purpose. Right,
- Right.
I think when we owned a dog, my wife was on board with that,
that, uh, , but she also got the dog.
So she couldn't really argue that fact too much. But
- and, and remember, these ideas come out
of traditional societies where Right.
These animals do live outside.
And so you don't want these packs of dogs
or animals come from, from packs
of dogs suddenly coming into your house.
- Sure. - Um, they
- Weren't, they weren't coming in.
They weren't looking at it as something that was going
to sleep with your Mm-Hmm.
with your son or
your daughter or something like that.
And they would look at it as their pet and take care of it.
No, it wasn't becoming that kind of thing. It
- Wasn't a No, they weren't seen as, even,
- In fact, the, the, the wrong thing in
that is what you're saying.
It was, that was not an a factor at all. Right, right.
- Right. Now, has this changed? Yeah, of course.
It's changed. Uhhuh, , um, you know, you go
to some of, go to the, the Emirates, for example. Know
- I to say, I do know an Islamic family that has a petar
- Of course.
Or live, you know, a very Western style life. Yes.
And so you're living in a, in a co-op building, you know,
a hundred floors, uh, in the middle of Dubai,
a hundred floors up, you know?
Yeah. And you're living a very western style life.
And a lot of people have pets, uh, dogs as pets.
There's no doubt about it. Yeah.
But, um, for the Maine,
this has been something that you didn't do.
Yeah. And, and you compare that to the European Western
tradition of Yes.
Having the pet inside the house as a source of affection.
- Yes. - Completely different.
- Yeah. Yeah. Now, in those, in those, uh, cultures,
would there be pets of other kinds?
Anything like that, that might be kept out?
Did you notice, did you see anything in Jordan torn?
- Not that I can think of.
Well, for the elite in those societies, falcons birds. Ah,
- Oh, interesting.
Oh, now we're getting into it.
- You know, but again, this is,
- Is that a pet though?
- It wasn't a working animal, but it was a status symbol.
- A status symbol. Sure. Well, I mean,
so are dogs sometimes too?
Yeah, I'd say that's a pet then. So
I guess we can give them that. Sure.
- And you know, you can, if you travel even as a tourist
to Gulf Arabia, you can, uh, participate in falconry, uh,
uhhuh events, Uhhuh , you know, you hold out
for a fee, you, they'll put the leather band on your arm
and you can hold your arm out
and then suddenly be thrilled
with a 60 pound falcon landing on your hand.
, . Those birds are heavy.
- They are not quite 60 pounds, but Yes.
- Well, alright. ,
- The one I think that you had, it felt
- Like 60 pounds to me.
- Well, dad, good enough. And
- I'm standing there going, get the attic.
- . I'm this - Bird of prey, ,
- It's about to suck all the blood out of my neck. Oh, no
- Wait. Wrong. It's going from my eyes.
- Wrong animal. Oh, your eyes. Sure, sure. .
Well, yeah, I can see that.
That also leads us, I know that a, in, in the United States,
there's been a major, um, problem with,
we were talking about before, , your,
your relative going down
and pilfering, uh, tropical fish out of, um, the Amazon. He
- Was, he was the first person to import tropical fish. He
- Was importing it right into the
United States. So that, that makes it
- Better.
His give him not sure He was still
exploiting whatever he could.
It's still colonialism. Absolutely.
Anyway, and, and, and did anybody in the Amazons
benefit from his presence? I doubt.
- Probably not. No, no. It minimally.
Um, but, um, that being said, one
of the things in the United States is there's a whole both,
uh, legal and, and illegal.
And probably the illegal one is probably much larger, uh,
industry of, of, of pets.
- Exotic - Pets. Exotic pets. Yes.
Which is a, a nice term for things
who shouldn't be pets pretty much.
Um, but, and, and snakes, um, spiders.
And I think those are some of the good ones, as opposed to,
um, bringing in things like large
- Carnivores.
- Yeah. Large cats of, uh, yes.
Um, and you've got tigers and, uh,
and lions and things like that.
- I had a friend, more
or less a, a neighbor actually, who lived upstairs from me,
um, when I was in my twenties in,
in the strange apartment in Brooklyn,
who had a monkey as a pet.
Yeah. And, um, every time I entered his apartment,
you know, I, I felt a bit uncomfortable
because the monkey was always in a cage.
Mm-Hmm. . And so
that made me feel uncomfortable.
And then I would feel even more
uncomfortable when the monkey came outta
- The cage.
Outta the cage. Yeah. Right.
- And it made me think this guy shouldn't have a monkey
No. In New York City.
- No. You know, I, and,
and I'm sure there's people out there going,
wait a minute, hold on.
I've had, you know, monkeys
and I have the small monkey,
then it, and it's perfectly fine.
I treat it very well, and it has free to run
around and so on.
And, and I'm sure there are situations
where they do get treated quite well.
Um, however, I, I still am uncomfortable just with the idea
and, and of, of animals that are used
to being out in these open spaces,
or I guess you could say should be being used in a form,
just, it's really in for the comfort of the human.
Because I, I maybe the animal's getting something out of it
that's beyond that, it's hard to, to communicate with 'em.
So it's tough to really tell.
But I'm guessing that in some cases at least, they're just,
that's, they're just a, a, you know, a trained thing.
You know, you, I, they're not domesticated animals as a,
as a cat and a dog are.
Um, they are, they are animals that are wild
and they're being brought in.
And, um, as far as we know, we, we don't have the ability
to domesticate them.
And every once in a while, you know, we hear the stories of,
of the one that, that gets extremely angry.
Look, that happens with domesticated animals too. Oh. That
- Happens with people.
- Oh, it often happens with people. It's .
- I don't know how you can domesticate people.
- No, that's, that's the, that's a challenge. Part
- Of which is why you never call your closest ones my pet
- .
Oh, okay. Uh, is it time for a commercial or
- Anything?
- ? Uh, no. Petco wanna buy time. Anybody?
Um, , this is why I'm not the pet.
- .
I remember Ira, this kid in the seventh grade.
- Oh, IRA, I - Remember.
- Yeah. No idea. You're talking about
- Kid in the seventh grade, he kept, uh, snakes.
He it Yes. Pythons.
Remember there little, a kid who had a python
and a uhhuh tank.
And I remember being in, um, social studies class
and his mother runs into the classroom demanding to see him.
And because the python had
escaped and she left the house. . Yeah.
- Smart. Get outta there. Yep.
- That snake got out and she got out. Yeah. Yeah.
- Wise . Absolutely. Get out of jumps.
Vacate the premises. . Yes.
It's a, it's a, um, well, pythons
and like boa constrictors and other animals like that, or,
or the snakes like that.
They have become a major problem in the United States
because people in Florida, especially
because people have let them go. They
- Are, you're gonna talk about the flushing,
the alligators down the,
- No, that's not a real thing.
But, um, but, but this is real.
They, these are releasing them into the Everglades with the,
with the concept of, oh,
well it'll disappear into the Everglades,
but there are no predators for these creatures.
Mm-Hmm. So they can find things to eat
and they can multiply as soon as there's, you know, a male
and a female, we can, it's a Garden
of Eden in there for them.
And that's what's happened.
And there is a major problem down.
They're actually doing hunts now in the Everglades to,
to rid the Everglades of them.
'cause they're, they're not indigenous. Mm.
They've been brought in for other parts of the world.
And it's a, it's a serious problem.
And I think that's been true with other,
other things from, um, other pets.
- Well, when you bring an animal out of its territory
and you bring it to a new environment that
where it never existed
before, you're putting everything out of balance.
Yes. And you're gonna get some weird stuff going on
after you do something like that.
Yeah. And I think that's, that's what we're seeing
- It is.
- So, you know, culling animals becoming a business, be
becoming an economic opportunity to have hunting
because animals need to be called
because they've been introduced into places
where they shouldn't have been
introduced in the first place.
Right. It's, yeah. Very debatable. Very debatable. It,
- It's practice.
It's all questionable. But it's, it's, but it goes to pets.
'cause they were, the, the bottom line of that seems to be
that the idea was these,
these creatures have been brought to be pets.
And are they, are they actually becoming pets also?
Um, some of these animals live an incredibly long time.
And so I guess and another cultural
- Oh, like the parrot.
Yeah. We're talking about birds as
as pets parrots typically have, I'm sorry to interrupt.
- No, you're not. Actually didn't, and we covered that
- .
But, but, but you, you know,
you stimulate my thought when you
say things and then beg your
- Pardon?
- . . Well, you, you did, you you,
you're talking about these animals that live very long
and it made me think Aha.
Like the parrot. Ah, right. Yes.
Which is why pirates had traditionally
a pa How did a pirate, by the way, develop the stereotype
that they have, which is there's always an ancient parrot on
their shoulder, an
- Ancient parrot on their - Shoulder.
Well, I'm assuming they've lived a very long time.
- Yeah. Okay. I see. Because someone said that.
I think I heard it on a podcast. Right?
Exactly. Oh, recently
- .
It sound like Gilbert Godfrey a patch on one eye. ,
- They all sound like Gilbert Godfrey.
- They all sound like Gilbert Godfrey,
- Which is great.
- Sure. We love it. Yep.
- . Well, who has the patch? The para?
- Well, no, in advanced stereotypes.
The parrot also has a patch. I see.
- I think stereotypes, we, we only wanna play
with advanced stereotype .
- Is there a breakfast cereal where the, there's a parrot
as the car Cat crunch
- Two can cat - Crunch? A
- Two - Can. It's a two can for,
- It's got a patch on its - Eye.
No, the two can does not have a patch. It's
- Not a patch. There is one.
- Well, it might be on, is this Captain Crunch?
Have a parrot on there? Mine, I don't know. I don't know.
It's, I haven't eaten Captain Crunch in a long time.
- This implies of course, that the parrot had something
wrong with its eye and went to the optometrist
and they put a patch on it because
- The parrot would need the patch.
. You know, that's definitely's
because God forbid people could see any kind of deformity
or any, any problem with the eye.
So, well, you know, ,
- It's, well the pirate, the pirate master could only see it
with one eye because he also had
a patch on his eye. I don't
- See, no, they gotta be on the
right, on the correct shoulder. Which
- Is why the - Parrot is, which is
where the eye is. Right. Which
- Is why the parrot is always on the left shoulder.
And the parro and the pirate.
The pirate master is always, , always,
always has a patch on the left
- Arm.
Is it a pirate master or a parro master?
- Yes. . - Well, the parrot
- Could, the pirate is the parro master. But the parent
- Could sometimes be the pirate master.
- The parrot can be the pirate master if
- The parrot takes charge.
- If the parrot plays it card's. Right, exactly.
A card playing parrot. Now we're talking.
But if exactly adds entertainment . But,
- But if the parrot was not a pirate master Yes.
Then the pirate, usually the parrot master.
- I see. Uh, without a doubt. Yes, correct. Clearly there's
- Pirate's booty.
Is that what, is that what you're thinking of?
- Pirate - Booty Pirate's. Booty.
- What? What's pirate Booty?
That's their what they That's a,
- It's a snack.
It's like a cheesy
- Snack.
Oh it is? Oh yeah. Oh, I see. And
- It's got a pirate with the eye patch and the parrot.
I don't know if the parrot has an eye
patch. I can't see that, but
- Oh, I see. Definitely
- Has the parrot, - The
- Pirate - Booty.
I don't. Okay. Oh yeah.
Lots of things I could say about that.
And I will refrain from saying all of them. ,
- Well say one.
- Okay. . - We can only see one of the parrot's.
Eyes. Eyes. I didn't, so the other eye may have a patch.
- It may have a patch and,
and it's, it's, it's, well, pirate booty could .
That's be, wouldn't that be like the backside
of the pirate? Am I wrong on that?
- It's pirate's booty. - Oh, pirate's possessive.
Well, okay. Still, is it, is it possessive? Well, let's,
- Let's be accurate here.
- And is there a patch on it? - ? We'll never know.
- Goodness. - We'll, goodness. Never know. Goodness. Thank
- Goodness - I choose the backside of the
- Bag.
. I choose not to know.
- You could have patches all over the place.
Could on your eye. It may.
- Sure. wherever you want.
- Oh my God. Well, uh, I think we've
absolutely covered this .
- Well, I have one question. - Okay. Before we put
- The, if you put the patch in the right
place, you have covered it. Yeah, I think
- Exactly. .
- So Dean, I'm wondering, you know, we talked about how cats
and dogs are, you know, very common pets in the US
and are domesticated animals.
Are there other animals in other cultures that are kind
of known for being common pets
that are more domesticated, that you
- Can think of in the traditional definition of the pet,
which is the non-working animal?
Yeah. I, I think,
and with the exception of the elites of any
of these cultures, 'cause they've been able, like as
- Ubiquitous as it - Is in the past Yeah.
As a mass phenomenon. Right.
Um, I think the western concept of the dog
and the cat and the really Okay.
And the probably then the bird and the fish Yeah.
After that, but okay. Yeah.
That's pretty much, that's become pretty much universal.
But I think that's a modern development. Hmm.
- Okay. - Well it, it's it, you know, I, I think that, um,
I know I've learned a lot
- Have - You today.
Unfortunately none of it's cultural. But
- I learned a lot about pirate's booty.
- But then again, isn't, isn't everything cultural?
- Everything has a cultural element. Does it?
And sometimes those elements,
- I mean, we are going by that, but you know,
- Sometimes they're a whole lot more
important than in other cultures.
Um, now
- , yes.
We've lost him. You're gonna cut this out. Well, that's it.
. Oh no, we're keeping this. Oh, that's it.
This is gold. That's all in,
it's all gold all in. We need to return
- To the pirate and the parrot. Great.
- Good. We didn't cover that enough,
- Really.
- You know what I'm saying? - 'cause the, it,
there's not only the patch on the eye
and the parrot on the shoulder ,
but there's also the missing arm
that's replaced with a hook.
Mm-Hmm. . And,
and usually a leg that's replaced with a peg leg
with a wooden right.
Yes. Wooden leg. Right? Yes. Yes.
- That's a dangerous job. Yeah. Is
- That where it all comes - From?
Absolutely. I assume. Yeah.
And these people who are, are captains have, have been
so out front so much
and have been in the midst of the, of the battles and the,
and the, and the entanglements and,
and all the things that can happen in that, in
that profession that they have been, um, marred and
therefore they're, they're marred
- And scarred. Mard
- Andd.
Mm-Hmm. . And these are their badges
of courage that they've shown
- Now in that same stereotype
with the believe that on the para
- It just running it out there.
- Didn't the, didn't the Parols have a peg leg?
- Pe - I think it should, I think it did.
- I think there may be a few animations like that. Yes.
Let's hope not. Real life . Alright. Well, yes,
- To your point, parrot live, we're back a very long time.
They do. And they outlive their masters in
Yes. In many cases
- They do.
And, and, and that's true.
And so you have to kind of deal
with them almost like children in those situations.
They far outlive.
Usually they will far outlive dogs and cats. Um, Mm-Hmm.
. That is, that is, I,
I don't know for sure how long.
Yeah. And some of the birds live a
considerably long time. I'm,
- I'm seeing their lifespan is as little as 20 to 30 years
for smaller species up to 50 years or more for larger
- Species.
Yeah. I mean, come on. If you're, if, if you're 50 years old
and you get a parrot Yeah.
You got a shot at having to leave it in your will. Yeah.
You know, a serious one. And, and that's, and that's true.
- And that's why the parrot's hanging around. You bet.
And when it finds out no place that it's not in the will,
you're gonna have one piss parrot .
- Well, you know what? I don't know of any better time
to wrap up our podcast,
but on a piss parrot .
So thank you Dean Foster.
- Hey, thank you Tom.
- And, uh, thank you Torin.
We're glad you're with us again
and we're all in studio and me too.
And we're just happy that this whole thing is moving forward
and we hope you're all safe
and everybody is still taking precautions
unless you're listening to it after we've gotten by.
In which case, thank goodness we got bye .
Mm-Hmm . Anyhow. Hope your pet is safe
and you all enjoy your pets, whatever they may be,
and take good care of them and treat them very well
and name them Very clever names
- . That's
- Important.
That was the in the will by the way of, of
G Gordon lid .
So, so, so that's, uh, this podcast
of, oops,
- Your culture's showing - Smell.
Ya.
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