1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,500 Okay. Well, we're rolling right now. I'm gonna 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,459 get that moment of silence here. So, 3 00:00:06,319 --> 00:00:08,660 just sit. Don't make any noise. Okay? 4 00:00:14,634 --> 00:00:15,855 Okay. That's plenty. 5 00:00:17,035 --> 00:00:18,635 You can you can make noise. Is my 6 00:00:18,635 --> 00:00:21,835 heart still alive there? No. I'm sorry. You've 7 00:00:21,835 --> 00:00:22,654 passed away. 8 00:00:23,114 --> 00:00:24,714 We got a good strong It looks like 9 00:00:24,714 --> 00:00:26,875 an EKG. It does, doesn't it? Yeah. It 10 00:00:26,875 --> 00:00:28,750 does. It really does. Or a seismograph. 11 00:00:29,289 --> 00:00:31,230 Right. Well, it is a seismograph, 12 00:00:31,530 --> 00:00:34,010 actually. If the if the wrong guys were 13 00:00:34,010 --> 00:00:36,489 reading the wrong chart and they didn't know 14 00:00:36,489 --> 00:00:38,109 it. Like, if your cardiologist 15 00:00:38,570 --> 00:00:39,869 is reading the seismograph. 16 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:41,070 Yeah. Yeah. 17 00:00:41,530 --> 00:00:41,689 It's 18 00:00:42,895 --> 00:00:44,354 Wait a minute. You look 19 00:00:44,815 --> 00:00:47,854 you look dead. It's actually In California, though, 20 00:00:47,854 --> 00:00:50,734 you look quite healthy. Really? You you look 21 00:00:50,734 --> 00:00:53,615 pretty good to me, but we just lost 22 00:00:53,615 --> 00:00:54,115 California. 23 00:00:57,810 --> 00:00:59,750 Yep. Oh, well, 24 00:01:01,090 --> 00:01:04,549 okay. So we are going to discuss today 25 00:01:04,930 --> 00:01:05,430 the, 26 00:01:06,770 --> 00:01:07,270 apologies. 27 00:01:07,890 --> 00:01:10,010 Are you apologizing to me for something? I 28 00:01:10,010 --> 00:01:12,209 am. I'm not. Are you sorry about something? 29 00:01:12,209 --> 00:01:14,295 Well, not right. No. I'm not right now. 30 00:01:14,754 --> 00:01:17,075 No. But you were once sorry about something 31 00:01:17,075 --> 00:01:19,395 and then I'm sorry. I'm doing this right 32 00:01:19,395 --> 00:01:22,015 now. That's what I'm sorry for. I'm sorry. 33 00:01:22,034 --> 00:01:25,635 I'm questioning it. Well, okay. But neither of 34 00:01:25,635 --> 00:01:27,314 us are really sorry about any of that. 35 00:01:27,314 --> 00:01:29,020 Not at all. No. It's like what does 36 00:01:29,020 --> 00:01:31,659 that mean? Remember when we've mentioned in the, 37 00:01:32,140 --> 00:01:33,040 in past 38 00:01:33,659 --> 00:01:34,159 podcasts 39 00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:36,530 where we Past podcast. Say that three times 40 00:01:36,530 --> 00:01:37,520 fast. Past podcast. 41 00:01:45,234 --> 00:01:45,974 Thank you. 42 00:01:47,954 --> 00:01:50,355 I thought that was done quite well. Wasn't 43 00:01:50,355 --> 00:01:52,674 it though? Yeah. Wasn't it surprising as well? 44 00:01:52,674 --> 00:01:54,515 I think that was an e flat. Can 45 00:01:54,515 --> 00:01:56,354 we do it in g? I thought it 46 00:01:56,354 --> 00:01:58,920 was in l because it sure sounded like 47 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,340 L to me. Alright. There we go. Okay. 48 00:02:02,519 --> 00:02:02,840 They 49 00:02:03,879 --> 00:02:05,319 I don't have any idea what we were 50 00:02:05,319 --> 00:02:08,439 talking about. Oh, apologies. Sorry about that. See? 51 00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:11,020 But why did you apologize about the apology? 52 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:12,764 What we've talked about in past 53 00:02:13,164 --> 00:02:13,664 podcasts 54 00:02:14,604 --> 00:02:17,405 Yes. Has been when people will say, I'm 55 00:02:17,405 --> 00:02:19,724 sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, and 56 00:02:19,724 --> 00:02:21,965 exactly what they mean. If somebody says, I 57 00:02:21,965 --> 00:02:23,805 didn't mean to interrupt, that's exactly what they 58 00:02:23,805 --> 00:02:25,805 mean. Of course it is. But they're saying 59 00:02:25,805 --> 00:02:27,584 they're sorry. So can we 60 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:29,710 justify that? So the articulation 61 00:02:30,490 --> 00:02:32,349 of the process of deception 62 00:02:32,969 --> 00:02:34,030 makes it okay? 63 00:02:35,050 --> 00:02:36,810 I have no idea what you just said. 64 00:02:36,810 --> 00:02:38,490 He did hide, but it fell great. It 65 00:02:38,490 --> 00:02:40,745 really did sound like it too. Almost like 66 00:02:40,745 --> 00:02:42,104 you knew what you were talking about. No. 67 00:02:42,104 --> 00:02:43,784 No. I I'm sorry if you didn't get 68 00:02:43,784 --> 00:02:45,705 it. It wasn't. Well, obviously, I didn't I 69 00:02:45,705 --> 00:02:48,664 enjoyed it, though. Obviously, I didn't articulate it 70 00:02:48,664 --> 00:02:51,064 as well as I should have. Okay. So 71 00:02:51,064 --> 00:02:54,125 I'm gonna be self deprecation with self deprecating 72 00:02:54,185 --> 00:02:55,084 with my articulation. 73 00:02:56,370 --> 00:02:59,110 Again, now that I believe is is outlawed 74 00:02:59,250 --> 00:03:01,090 in in most of the the the the 75 00:03:01,090 --> 00:03:01,590 articulation. 76 00:03:05,409 --> 00:03:07,669 I think I've lost you completely now. I 77 00:03:09,665 --> 00:03:11,344 was trying to turn it into a Cole 78 00:03:11,344 --> 00:03:14,085 Porter song. Well It didn't happen. 79 00:03:14,465 --> 00:03:16,784 Will, I'm sorry. It's didn't sound like a 80 00:03:16,784 --> 00:03:17,925 Cole Porter song. 81 00:03:19,745 --> 00:03:20,245 Well 82 00:03:20,545 --> 00:03:23,519 okay. But so so of all, I guess 83 00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:26,659 we should just mention that, you're Dean Foster. 84 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,459 Yep. And I'm Tom Peterson. 85 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,400 And we also have Torin with us today. 86 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,439 Hello, Torin. Hello. Talking apologies. And I'm not 87 00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:38,099 sorry about that. Oh, guess what? 88 00:03:38,935 --> 00:03:39,514 Oops. Your culture 89 00:03:41,094 --> 00:03:41,594 show. 90 00:03:48,534 --> 00:03:49,034 Apologies. 91 00:03:49,574 --> 00:03:50,074 And 92 00:03:50,375 --> 00:03:53,120 people who apologize when they don't mean it, 93 00:03:53,180 --> 00:03:54,479 people who apologize 94 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:56,000 too much 95 00:03:56,459 --> 00:03:57,599 or not enough, 96 00:03:58,379 --> 00:04:00,560 and can that be attributed 97 00:04:01,180 --> 00:04:03,180 to cultures around the world? It is a 98 00:04:03,180 --> 00:04:04,719 very uncomfortable topic. 99 00:04:05,125 --> 00:04:07,444 Why? Because I don't think people are comfortable 100 00:04:07,444 --> 00:04:09,144 with the whole idea of apologizing. 101 00:04:09,525 --> 00:04:11,925 Or maybe they're quite comfortable with it. Or 102 00:04:11,925 --> 00:04:14,245 when that may be a cultural thing. Maybe 103 00:04:14,245 --> 00:04:15,144 in some cultures, 104 00:04:15,844 --> 00:04:18,165 we that's where we default. That's where we 105 00:04:18,165 --> 00:04:20,324 go all the time Mhmm. And it's very 106 00:04:20,324 --> 00:04:20,824 comfortable. 107 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:24,540 Maybe I'm talking about certain cultures where they 108 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:27,019 feel very uncomfortable about talking. I'm see, I'm 109 00:04:27,019 --> 00:04:30,319 not comfortable about talking about apologies. I will. 110 00:04:30,620 --> 00:04:32,620 I will. But I'm sorry if I if 111 00:04:32,620 --> 00:04:34,720 I if that's the truth. That's the truth. 112 00:04:35,125 --> 00:04:36,824 Well, that's all we have for today. 113 00:04:37,764 --> 00:04:38,264 So 114 00:04:39,285 --> 00:04:39,785 well, 115 00:04:40,805 --> 00:04:43,145 it's I think you can use an apology 116 00:04:43,524 --> 00:04:46,425 for lots of different reasons. You can evade. 117 00:04:46,884 --> 00:04:47,545 You can 118 00:04:49,170 --> 00:04:49,670 deflect. 119 00:04:50,370 --> 00:04:52,610 You you can say I'm sorry to try 120 00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:56,449 to increase the perception of how humble a 121 00:04:56,449 --> 00:04:59,490 person you are. Okay. There's lots of reasons 122 00:04:59,490 --> 00:05:01,330 why you can say I'm sorry. And I 123 00:05:01,330 --> 00:05:03,569 think people can be very deceptive about it. 124 00:05:03,569 --> 00:05:05,714 Isn't it isn't it often used in a 125 00:05:05,714 --> 00:05:08,274 passive aggressive way? I think that's the point. 126 00:05:08,274 --> 00:05:10,355 You just nailed it. Right. I think there 127 00:05:10,355 --> 00:05:12,754 is a cultural piece to this. Oh, okay. 128 00:05:12,754 --> 00:05:14,435 Okay? Depending on Have we come up with 129 00:05:14,435 --> 00:05:17,229 anything yet that that didn't have a cultural 130 00:05:17,229 --> 00:05:19,870 piece to it? No. There's nothing that doesn't 131 00:05:19,870 --> 00:05:21,629 have a cultural piece to it. I'm saying 132 00:05:21,629 --> 00:05:24,509 that definitively. And if somebody disagrees with me, 133 00:05:24,509 --> 00:05:25,329 I'm sorry. 134 00:05:28,365 --> 00:05:30,444 I think you just defined it right there. 135 00:05:30,444 --> 00:05:31,745 That's an I'm sorry, 136 00:05:32,204 --> 00:05:32,704 parentheses, 137 00:05:33,165 --> 00:05:35,024 you're wrong, close parentheses. 138 00:05:35,324 --> 00:05:35,824 Absolutely. 139 00:05:36,204 --> 00:05:37,884 Yes. See, so there are lots of reasons, 140 00:05:37,884 --> 00:05:40,460 lots of different ways you can apologize and 141 00:05:40,460 --> 00:05:43,020 say I'm sorry, and it depends on what 142 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:45,580 your intent really is. Sure. Like, on an 143 00:05:45,580 --> 00:05:46,720 individual psychological 144 00:05:47,100 --> 00:05:49,680 level, I mean, I've heard people say 145 00:05:50,139 --> 00:05:51,600 I'm sorry or apologize 146 00:05:52,139 --> 00:05:55,375 about things where it could have meant anything. 147 00:05:55,375 --> 00:05:56,654 You know, it could have meant so many 148 00:05:56,654 --> 00:05:59,295 different things. It may have been sincere. It 149 00:05:59,295 --> 00:06:01,134 may not have been sincere. How many of 150 00:06:01,134 --> 00:06:03,555 us have had or even said, 151 00:06:03,855 --> 00:06:06,415 I'm sorry and didn't really mean it or 152 00:06:06,415 --> 00:06:08,254 have somebody say that to them and you 153 00:06:08,254 --> 00:06:09,329 know they don't mean 154 00:06:10,129 --> 00:06:10,789 it. I've 155 00:06:11,169 --> 00:06:13,349 never done that. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, well, 156 00:06:13,490 --> 00:06:15,970 I'm sorry too, but I think I've never 157 00:06:15,970 --> 00:06:17,349 done it. I'm 158 00:06:17,810 --> 00:06:18,310 sorry. 159 00:06:20,370 --> 00:06:20,870 Who's 160 00:06:21,329 --> 00:06:22,389 so sorry? 161 00:06:23,089 --> 00:06:23,990 And then there's 162 00:06:24,314 --> 00:06:24,814 who's 163 00:06:25,115 --> 00:06:25,615 sorry 164 00:06:25,995 --> 00:06:26,495 now. 165 00:06:27,035 --> 00:06:29,194 Right. Right. Wait. Hold on. For a minute. 166 00:06:29,194 --> 00:06:31,194 For a minute. If we a couple more 167 00:06:31,194 --> 00:06:33,115 measures and we and we have to pay. 168 00:06:33,115 --> 00:06:35,835 Yeah. Licensing. Licensing is back again. I I 169 00:06:35,835 --> 00:06:37,889 will say this. The licensing guy 170 00:06:38,370 --> 00:06:40,930 is is on duty, like, twenty four hours 171 00:06:40,930 --> 00:06:42,389 a day, seven days a week, 172 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:43,830 all year long. 173 00:06:44,449 --> 00:06:46,610 It's He's gonna jump on it. He or 174 00:06:46,610 --> 00:06:48,530 she is gonna jump on it. They. Let's 175 00:06:48,530 --> 00:06:50,370 use the pronoun they for that. Okay. I 176 00:06:50,370 --> 00:06:52,545 think it's appropriate. They'll jump on it like 177 00:06:52,625 --> 00:06:54,004 like that. Yeah. 178 00:06:54,384 --> 00:06:56,085 Yeah. Well, let me ask you a question. 179 00:06:56,305 --> 00:06:57,985 Can you and I this is the this 180 00:06:57,985 --> 00:07:00,225 is the softball. This is the easy one. 181 00:07:00,225 --> 00:07:03,045 Okay. We'll start with that. I'm already nervous. 182 00:07:03,185 --> 00:07:05,025 No. No. This is the easy one. Can 183 00:07:05,025 --> 00:07:06,884 you name a country 184 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,100 that would be prone 185 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:10,220 to 186 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,580 saying I'm sorry or a version of that, 187 00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:15,020 quite often? 188 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,240 There are lots. And and again I didn't 189 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,220 ask for lots. 190 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:19,899 I asked for one. 191 00:07:25,625 --> 00:07:28,345 What? What is that? But hang on. I 192 00:07:28,345 --> 00:07:29,944 think you should say you're sorry for that. 193 00:07:29,944 --> 00:07:30,925 I'm really sorry. 194 00:07:31,464 --> 00:07:34,185 I have to provide the context for my 195 00:07:34,185 --> 00:07:34,685 answer. 196 00:07:35,889 --> 00:07:39,029 Alright. Two come to mind. Oh, jeez. See? 197 00:07:40,289 --> 00:07:41,250 Alright. The UK 198 00:07:41,649 --> 00:07:44,529 Mhmm. And Japan. But it depends and I'm 199 00:07:44,529 --> 00:07:47,970 using these two. Okay. Such similar cultures. Very 200 00:07:47,970 --> 00:07:48,470 dissimilar. 201 00:07:48,930 --> 00:07:52,145 Right? Yeah. And so depending on who is 202 00:07:52,145 --> 00:07:52,645 receiving 203 00:07:53,665 --> 00:07:57,185 communication from either Britain or Tokyo, let's say 204 00:07:57,345 --> 00:07:57,845 Yeah. 205 00:07:58,705 --> 00:08:01,045 You might not hear it as 206 00:08:01,665 --> 00:08:04,850 an apology as we would term an apology. 207 00:08:05,069 --> 00:08:05,569 Okay. 208 00:08:06,589 --> 00:08:09,330 But that's because both of those cultures 209 00:08:09,709 --> 00:08:10,770 are sounding 210 00:08:11,149 --> 00:08:13,790 apologetic to, let's say, my ear or your 211 00:08:13,790 --> 00:08:15,970 ear as a US American. Yes. 212 00:08:16,925 --> 00:08:18,865 But they're using the apology 213 00:08:19,245 --> 00:08:21,584 for different reasons in different ways. 214 00:08:22,365 --> 00:08:22,865 Okay. 215 00:08:23,245 --> 00:08:25,245 Yeah. Wow. Did you do that all on 216 00:08:25,245 --> 00:08:25,904 one breath? 217 00:08:27,004 --> 00:08:30,439 Standing on one leg. Oh, my goodness. Well 218 00:08:30,979 --> 00:08:31,959 Chewing gum 219 00:08:32,419 --> 00:08:34,179 and rubbing my belly and all at the 220 00:08:34,179 --> 00:08:36,179 same time. Tapping patting the top of your 221 00:08:36,179 --> 00:08:38,019 head too, which was pretty impressive. I don't 222 00:08:38,019 --> 00:08:39,860 know. You didn't do that? No. Okay. Wait. 223 00:08:39,860 --> 00:08:41,539 Let me try to say all of that 224 00:08:41,539 --> 00:08:44,179 again and pat the whole leg. Let's not 225 00:08:44,179 --> 00:08:46,815 do that. No. I'm be doing that immediately. 226 00:08:47,035 --> 00:08:49,514 Sorry. But that's out. Alright. So here's the 227 00:08:49,514 --> 00:08:51,675 thing. Like This is the thing right here. 228 00:08:51,675 --> 00:08:53,754 Okay. Good. We're getting to the thing early 229 00:08:53,754 --> 00:08:54,735 today. Okay. 230 00:08:55,355 --> 00:08:57,115 Go go. No. I'm sorry. I didn't mean 231 00:08:57,115 --> 00:08:58,654 to interrupt. In in Japan, 232 00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:02,080 such a group oriented culture, very powerfully group 233 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:03,460 oriented. Yes. So 234 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,060 what you do is, 235 00:09:05,519 --> 00:09:08,180 you know, this idea of humility 236 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:09,460 and humbleness 237 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,360 is is a very highly regarded value. Mhmm. 238 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,674 And one of the much of Asia. Throughout 239 00:09:15,674 --> 00:09:17,514 much of Asia, but I'm using Japan here 240 00:09:17,514 --> 00:09:18,654 as a particular 241 00:09:19,195 --> 00:09:21,355 extreme example. Right. I just thought I'd throw 242 00:09:21,355 --> 00:09:23,115 something in so people would know it. Yes. 243 00:09:23,115 --> 00:09:24,794 Yeah. Yeah. That's all. And and the source 244 00:09:24,794 --> 00:09:27,035 of this is there are many sources for 245 00:09:27,035 --> 00:09:29,730 this. It has to do with Confucianism and 246 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:31,110 Buddhism and Shintoism 247 00:09:31,649 --> 00:09:34,389 and and and beyond just those religious influences 248 00:09:34,610 --> 00:09:35,269 or philosophies 249 00:09:36,129 --> 00:09:37,509 philosophies of life, 250 00:09:37,810 --> 00:09:38,870 you also have 251 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:42,735 historical precedents that that 252 00:09:43,695 --> 00:09:44,995 significant group orientation. 253 00:09:45,454 --> 00:09:47,475 There's a lot of reasons for it, but 254 00:09:47,615 --> 00:09:48,914 the result is 255 00:09:49,294 --> 00:09:50,914 that if I'm doing 256 00:09:51,294 --> 00:09:53,695 anything or if I even need to say 257 00:09:53,695 --> 00:09:54,195 something 258 00:09:54,654 --> 00:09:57,315 that in any way I might think 259 00:09:57,940 --> 00:09:59,879 would make you feel uncomfortable 260 00:10:00,259 --> 00:10:01,000 or disappointed 261 00:10:01,779 --> 00:10:02,279 or, 262 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:04,519 or challenged 263 00:10:04,899 --> 00:10:07,860 in some way, then I can't say it 264 00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:08,360 directly. 265 00:10:08,820 --> 00:10:10,519 And using an apology 266 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:11,800 upfront 267 00:10:12,565 --> 00:10:13,945 is a great device 268 00:10:14,404 --> 00:10:17,384 for then saying what you need to say. 269 00:10:18,004 --> 00:10:18,504 So 270 00:10:18,965 --> 00:10:19,785 it's a 271 00:10:20,245 --> 00:10:23,045 way of saying, Here's kind of how I 272 00:10:23,045 --> 00:10:24,904 feel, but I'm really, really sorry 273 00:10:26,299 --> 00:10:28,059 if this hurts you or harms you or 274 00:10:28,059 --> 00:10:30,319 makes you uncomfortable in any way. 275 00:10:31,019 --> 00:10:33,659 So the use of an apology is is 276 00:10:33,659 --> 00:10:35,839 is a terrific technique in Japan. 277 00:10:36,220 --> 00:10:39,085 When you say something that advances, let's say, 278 00:10:39,085 --> 00:10:41,884 your agenda in a business meeting or or 279 00:10:41,884 --> 00:10:43,184 even just a casual 280 00:10:43,644 --> 00:10:44,865 meeting on the street, 281 00:10:45,804 --> 00:10:47,985 if you're trying to get something done 282 00:10:48,365 --> 00:10:50,684 and you're not sure how it's gonna be 283 00:10:50,684 --> 00:10:52,865 received by the other person, apologizing 284 00:10:53,245 --> 00:10:54,144 right up front 285 00:10:54,610 --> 00:10:56,070 is a good way to start. 286 00:10:56,610 --> 00:10:59,250 Right? Well, it's not that dissimilar. Right? If 287 00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:01,410 we pass somebody on the street in New 288 00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:04,370 York, I might say, excuse me, or if 289 00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:06,615 I need some help for something, you know, 290 00:11:06,774 --> 00:11:09,495 excuse me, but excuse me, but how do 291 00:11:09,495 --> 00:11:11,815 I get from here to there or would 292 00:11:11,815 --> 00:11:13,514 you know, whatever it is. 293 00:11:14,054 --> 00:11:15,434 But in Japan, you 294 00:11:15,815 --> 00:11:17,834 really want to elaborate on that 295 00:11:18,615 --> 00:11:20,774 and and I'm so so you would rather 296 00:11:20,774 --> 00:11:21,274 say, 297 00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:24,820 I'm so very sorry to bother you, and 298 00:11:24,820 --> 00:11:27,080 I hope this is not an inconvenience. 299 00:11:28,179 --> 00:11:31,159 Almost I'm hearing that almost like someone who 300 00:11:31,779 --> 00:11:33,779 in a in a business situation or in 301 00:11:33,779 --> 00:11:34,360 an office 302 00:11:34,875 --> 00:11:37,115 maybe goes up to a door, taps on 303 00:11:37,115 --> 00:11:38,715 it, and then opens it up, and there's 304 00:11:38,715 --> 00:11:40,174 people in there who are in a meeting, 305 00:11:40,315 --> 00:11:42,394 and says, I'm sorry to bother you, but 306 00:11:42,475 --> 00:11:44,075 and then goes on from there. But you're 307 00:11:44,075 --> 00:11:45,615 saying it's a much more widespread 308 00:11:46,075 --> 00:11:49,429 impact in Japan. Yes. It it it's it's 309 00:11:49,429 --> 00:11:49,929 positively 310 00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:52,730 valued. Mhmm. Okay. Strongly valued. 311 00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:54,889 And and if you don't do it, 312 00:11:55,990 --> 00:11:57,509 you know, you're kind of looked on as 313 00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:58,009 barbaric. 314 00:11:58,470 --> 00:12:00,809 Okay. You're not it's you're not being sensitive 315 00:12:01,029 --> 00:12:01,529 to 316 00:12:02,434 --> 00:12:06,195 how others might feel by your comments. Okay. 317 00:12:06,195 --> 00:12:08,595 Mhmm. Yeah. Now in Britain, you have this 318 00:12:08,595 --> 00:12:09,975 interesting thing where, 319 00:12:12,195 --> 00:12:14,274 coming out of a much more European tradition, 320 00:12:14,274 --> 00:12:16,034 we're not coming out of a Confucian or 321 00:12:16,034 --> 00:12:16,529 a Buddhist 322 00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:18,149 influenced tradition. 323 00:12:19,330 --> 00:12:22,450 It's kind of odd, actually, that you have 324 00:12:22,450 --> 00:12:22,950 this 325 00:12:23,649 --> 00:12:26,230 strong emphasis in Britain on, 326 00:12:26,850 --> 00:12:27,910 oh, I'm sorry. 327 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:30,470 Mhmm. Excuse me. Mhmm. Pardon. 328 00:12:31,304 --> 00:12:34,284 Right? Mhmm. All of those things. Just sorry. 329 00:12:34,745 --> 00:12:38,024 Sorry. Yeah. Is very common word there. All 330 00:12:38,024 --> 00:12:40,445 the time. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. And 331 00:12:40,904 --> 00:12:43,725 what's the difference between those three things? Sorry, 332 00:12:44,184 --> 00:12:45,245 excuse me, 333 00:12:45,830 --> 00:12:46,649 and pardon. 334 00:12:47,029 --> 00:12:47,529 Mhmm. 335 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:50,629 There there are very subtle differences. I would 336 00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:53,029 love to hear some from some of our 337 00:12:53,029 --> 00:12:56,250 listeners who might be British who could articulate 338 00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:59,264 that Sure. For us because Sure. You know, 339 00:12:59,345 --> 00:13:01,585 I I think I have an idea, but 340 00:13:01,585 --> 00:13:03,904 I'm not British myself. Right. So I wouldn't 341 00:13:03,904 --> 00:13:06,545 necessarily use these. Yeah. Because we're gonna filter 342 00:13:06,545 --> 00:13:08,304 it as you often say. We're gonna filter 343 00:13:08,304 --> 00:13:10,545 it through our culture to make decisions on 344 00:13:10,545 --> 00:13:11,445 what they mean, 345 00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:14,070 as opposed to the person who's actually been 346 00:13:14,070 --> 00:13:15,289 raised in the culture 347 00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:19,029 defining it. Yeah. I think sorry is sorry, 348 00:13:19,029 --> 00:13:21,610 and then the unsaid part is the parenthesis, 349 00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:25,105 and and it's sorry to bother you Mhmm. 350 00:13:25,264 --> 00:13:28,404 But Mhmm. Close parenthesis. Okay. Right? 351 00:13:29,585 --> 00:13:31,985 Pardon, I think, is the British way of 352 00:13:31,985 --> 00:13:32,485 saying, 353 00:13:32,865 --> 00:13:33,845 say that again? 354 00:13:35,024 --> 00:13:35,845 Yes. Yes. 355 00:13:36,170 --> 00:13:38,009 Which can be used here, but we don't 356 00:13:38,009 --> 00:13:39,930 use it a lot like that. I think 357 00:13:39,930 --> 00:13:41,610 there was a time when it was used 358 00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:44,350 more here like that than it is now. 359 00:13:44,410 --> 00:13:47,610 Here being The US. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 360 00:13:47,769 --> 00:13:50,809 Yes. Right. And then and then there's excuse 361 00:13:50,809 --> 00:13:51,870 me Mhmm. 362 00:13:52,345 --> 00:13:53,085 Which is, 363 00:13:54,745 --> 00:13:57,065 again, in Britain, my take on that is, 364 00:13:57,065 --> 00:13:59,144 yes, it could be, I'm sorry I said 365 00:13:59,144 --> 00:14:01,965 what I said. But it more likely, 366 00:14:02,504 --> 00:14:04,044 it's a way of asking 367 00:14:04,424 --> 00:14:06,205 for some sort of accommodation. 368 00:14:07,149 --> 00:14:09,090 Mhmm. Like getting past someone 369 00:14:10,029 --> 00:14:12,669 or accidentally bumping into them or something like 370 00:14:12,669 --> 00:14:15,309 that. Yeah. I think that's a that's a 371 00:14:15,309 --> 00:14:16,289 subtle variation 372 00:14:16,669 --> 00:14:19,549 of sorry. Yeah. Yeah. But it says the 373 00:14:19,549 --> 00:14:22,129 use of sorry in a very specific circumstance. 374 00:14:22,384 --> 00:14:25,024 Okay. Right? Mhmm. But both of those are 375 00:14:25,024 --> 00:14:27,284 very different from pardon. Mhmm. 376 00:14:27,825 --> 00:14:30,964 Pardon is say it again. Mhmm. Please. Okay. 377 00:14:31,825 --> 00:14:34,085 In in in your interpretation of the British 378 00:14:34,144 --> 00:14:36,170 use of it. Right? I'm I'm seeing it 379 00:14:36,170 --> 00:14:38,889 that way. Yeah. Well, we should please help 380 00:14:38,889 --> 00:14:40,649 us out a little bit. If you are 381 00:14:40,649 --> 00:14:41,149 British, 382 00:14:42,090 --> 00:14:44,490 let us know what you think about that 383 00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:47,470 because that would be a huge help. 384 00:14:48,009 --> 00:14:49,825 And if you and and if you if 385 00:14:49,825 --> 00:14:50,404 you disagree, 386 00:14:51,184 --> 00:14:53,845 don't start with an apology. Right. 387 00:14:54,705 --> 00:14:56,644 Don't be sorry for disagreeing. 388 00:14:56,945 --> 00:14:57,445 Yeah. 389 00:14:57,904 --> 00:14:59,825 Or or go ahead and be sorry for 390 00:14:59,825 --> 00:15:02,350 disagreeing if if you can't help yourself. Yeah, 391 00:15:02,350 --> 00:15:03,549 of course. Because we don't want you to 392 00:15:03,549 --> 00:15:05,629 fall to our culture anyway. Right. We don't 393 00:15:05,629 --> 00:15:07,870 want you to not contact us because you're 394 00:15:07,870 --> 00:15:10,269 afraid you'll say the wrong thing. We'll give 395 00:15:10,269 --> 00:15:11,250 you a blanket, 396 00:15:12,110 --> 00:15:13,970 you can put in a blanket apology 397 00:15:14,590 --> 00:15:16,875 for whatever you do, and we'll accept it. 398 00:15:17,195 --> 00:15:18,715 Now, unless you don't like what we're doing, 399 00:15:18,715 --> 00:15:20,715 in which case, no. Don't. No. We're not 400 00:15:20,715 --> 00:15:22,235 sorry about it. We're we're not sorry at 401 00:15:22,235 --> 00:15:23,375 all. No apologies. 402 00:15:24,955 --> 00:15:26,195 Here's the thing. Interesting 403 00:15:26,634 --> 00:15:28,235 Wait. I thought we already had the thing. 404 00:15:28,235 --> 00:15:30,075 No. We've got lots of things. Oh. There's 405 00:15:30,075 --> 00:15:32,799 multiple things. We got the all thing right 406 00:15:32,799 --> 00:15:34,773 here. All things for all the people. All 407 00:15:34,773 --> 00:15:36,179 the time. All the time. Considered. 408 00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:37,139 Alright. 409 00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:38,960 So do you remember what the thing is 410 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,100 again? Go ahead. Well, 411 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:43,360 I do. Oh, that's that's surprising right there. 412 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,200 In a previous episode, we talked about the 413 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,674 ice Icelandic all thing. Oh, yeah. And for 414 00:15:48,674 --> 00:15:51,554 those listeners who don't know or don't remember 415 00:15:51,634 --> 00:15:53,475 Or if you haven't listened to it, go 416 00:15:53,475 --> 00:15:56,615 find the islands of Iceland and Malta 417 00:15:57,154 --> 00:15:59,279 and and listen to that episode. That's right. 418 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:00,959 Because we talked about the all thing, which 419 00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:02,339 is a unique Icelandic, 420 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,139 but I'm not gonna give it away anymore. 421 00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:06,899 No. That's right. Go listen. 422 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,039 Go listen again. So what was the thing 423 00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:10,959 I was talking about? I have no clue. 424 00:16:10,959 --> 00:16:12,720 Okay. So here's the thing. Oh, here it 425 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,865 is. Okay. Alright. Thought I was gonna get 426 00:16:14,865 --> 00:16:15,264 away, but 427 00:16:16,304 --> 00:16:17,524 Alright. Yes. So 428 00:16:18,065 --> 00:16:20,865 I'm walking down the street in Tokyo. Oh, 429 00:16:20,865 --> 00:16:23,584 okay. No. Right now, you're not. You're no. 430 00:16:23,584 --> 00:16:25,845 And you're in the studio. Setting a scenario. 431 00:16:26,304 --> 00:16:27,800 Oh, and and now you're knocking over your 432 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,720 water glass. That's what that noise was in 433 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,379 the background. 434 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,519 And I'm waiting for I'm sorry. There you 435 00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:35,019 go. 436 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,800 Now now go ahead. Let us see your 437 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,125 thing. Now here's an example of how we 438 00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:43,625 have to be careful about not 439 00:16:44,245 --> 00:16:44,745 overgeneralizing 440 00:16:46,644 --> 00:16:49,204 cultures being similar just because they're near each 441 00:16:49,204 --> 00:16:50,024 other. Right? 442 00:16:50,964 --> 00:16:52,964 Let let me let me take my example 443 00:16:52,964 --> 00:16:54,504 and move from 444 00:16:54,990 --> 00:16:56,129 Tokyo to 445 00:16:57,629 --> 00:16:58,129 Shanghai 446 00:16:58,509 --> 00:17:00,049 or Beijing, China. 447 00:17:01,549 --> 00:17:03,309 And I'm walking down the street and I 448 00:17:03,309 --> 00:17:06,349 bump into somebody. It's crowded. Big cities. Right? 449 00:17:06,349 --> 00:17:06,849 Okay. 450 00:17:08,035 --> 00:17:08,855 Or actually, 451 00:17:09,315 --> 00:17:09,815 somebody 452 00:17:10,355 --> 00:17:12,434 walks down the street and bumps into me. 453 00:17:12,434 --> 00:17:13,654 Okay. Yeah. Sure. 454 00:17:14,035 --> 00:17:15,174 You know, an anonymous, 455 00:17:15,634 --> 00:17:18,434 some a strange a Chinese person. Not that 456 00:17:18,434 --> 00:17:19,255 they're strange. 457 00:17:19,875 --> 00:17:20,375 Wow. 458 00:17:20,914 --> 00:17:23,154 Okay. Now we're in trouble. It's 459 00:17:23,830 --> 00:17:24,330 English 460 00:17:24,869 --> 00:17:26,490 doesn't English is too complicated. 461 00:17:27,509 --> 00:17:30,150 Or maybe I'm not that competent with it, 462 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:33,109 and I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Well, maybe It's 463 00:17:33,109 --> 00:17:35,750 just my language, and it it I'm losing 464 00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:38,549 it. Let's just assume that the person who 465 00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:40,835 is walking down the street bumps into you. 466 00:17:40,835 --> 00:17:42,195 They're not strange at all. They're 467 00:17:42,755 --> 00:17:43,735 They're not strange 468 00:17:44,195 --> 00:17:45,654 at all. Absolutely together. 469 00:17:45,955 --> 00:17:47,815 They are. And they're in Shanghai, 470 00:17:48,115 --> 00:17:50,515 however. I'm the stranger. I'm the stranger. You 471 00:17:50,515 --> 00:17:52,755 are the in Shanghai, you are the stranger. 472 00:17:52,755 --> 00:17:55,259 And I'm also strange. That's for sure. 473 00:17:55,660 --> 00:17:57,339 I think if you put me up against 474 00:17:57,339 --> 00:18:00,220 most anybody, Chinese or not, I'm gonna be 475 00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:01,599 the strange one. Absolutely. 476 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:06,059 There's there's no argument happening here. And I'm 477 00:18:06,059 --> 00:18:07,039 not even apologizing 478 00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:09,794 for it. No. And you should apologize for 479 00:18:09,794 --> 00:18:11,954 agreeing with me. Oh, I don't think so. 480 00:18:11,954 --> 00:18:12,694 I'm just 481 00:18:12,994 --> 00:18:16,274 verifying facts. That's all I'm doing. I'm really 482 00:18:16,274 --> 00:18:18,515 sorry. That's not common these days, but I'm 483 00:18:18,515 --> 00:18:21,315 verifying facts. Alright. So here's what happened. Oh, 484 00:18:21,315 --> 00:18:23,575 please. Go ahead. Down the street. In Shanghai. 485 00:18:24,380 --> 00:18:24,880 A 486 00:18:25,180 --> 00:18:25,680 stranger. 487 00:18:25,980 --> 00:18:27,600 Yes. A native A native 488 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:31,680 of China and Shanghai. Fine. 489 00:18:32,059 --> 00:18:34,620 He's walking to me, bumps right into me. 490 00:18:34,620 --> 00:18:36,559 Yes. Right? And doesn't say anything. 491 00:18:37,845 --> 00:18:39,684 In fact, this happened to a colleague of 492 00:18:39,684 --> 00:18:40,184 mine 493 00:18:42,325 --> 00:18:45,365 in a swimming pool in Beijing. They were 494 00:18:45,365 --> 00:18:45,865 swimming 495 00:18:46,484 --> 00:18:48,484 and a Chinese guy is swimming in the 496 00:18:48,484 --> 00:18:51,549 opposite direction and swims right into him. Okay. 497 00:18:51,549 --> 00:18:53,230 That's under the water. Right? Okay. So you 498 00:18:53,230 --> 00:18:55,150 could say he didn't see him, but he 499 00:18:55,150 --> 00:18:56,450 swam right into him, and 500 00:18:58,029 --> 00:18:58,529 he 501 00:18:58,910 --> 00:19:00,369 jumps up out of the water. 502 00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:02,990 The guy is the swimmer Yeah. And looks 503 00:19:02,990 --> 00:19:04,450 at him and starts laughing. 504 00:19:05,325 --> 00:19:07,005 The the person who bumped into him The 505 00:19:07,005 --> 00:19:10,204 Chinese guy who swam into him. Yes. He's 506 00:19:10,204 --> 00:19:11,984 laughing. He's laughing. Okay. 507 00:19:12,684 --> 00:19:14,684 And so my colleague is like, wait a 508 00:19:14,684 --> 00:19:16,845 minute. That's a fake You just Because your 509 00:19:16,845 --> 00:19:19,724 colleague was from Europe, from The US. He's 510 00:19:19,724 --> 00:19:22,339 an American. Okay. You just swam into me. 511 00:19:22,339 --> 00:19:24,839 You just caused the accident. Yeah. And 512 00:19:25,380 --> 00:19:28,339 I expect an apology. Okay. And instead of 513 00:19:28,339 --> 00:19:31,059 getting an apology, I get you laughing in 514 00:19:31,059 --> 00:19:31,880 my face 515 00:19:32,259 --> 00:19:35,134 over this. Okay. Yeah. Yep. And I'm walking 516 00:19:35,134 --> 00:19:37,134 down the street in Shanghai, and an old 517 00:19:37,134 --> 00:19:38,835 Chinese lady comes 518 00:19:39,615 --> 00:19:42,894 barreling by me. Uh-huh. And I'm obviously in 519 00:19:42,894 --> 00:19:45,294 her way, and she sticks her elbow out 520 00:19:45,294 --> 00:19:45,794 into 521 00:19:46,414 --> 00:19:49,054 my side Uh-huh. And pushes me away. Right. 522 00:19:49,054 --> 00:19:51,529 Right. And I'm going, wait a minute, lady. 523 00:19:51,589 --> 00:19:53,909 Yeah. I'm from New York. I know about 524 00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:55,990 crowds. Yeah. You don't have to stick your 525 00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:58,309 elbow in to my side. No apologies are 526 00:19:58,309 --> 00:20:01,609 happening. No apologies. Nothing. Well, that sounded intentional 527 00:20:01,829 --> 00:20:03,849 right there. If I take the same scenarios, 528 00:20:04,255 --> 00:20:05,775 kind of like that, and I'm on a 529 00:20:05,775 --> 00:20:06,835 street in London, 530 00:20:07,454 --> 00:20:09,534 if I bump into somebody- Oh my gosh. 531 00:20:09,534 --> 00:20:11,375 They'd still be there. They'd still be saying 532 00:20:11,375 --> 00:20:13,534 sorry. We're both standing there saying, I'm sorry. 533 00:20:13,534 --> 00:20:15,065 No, I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. No, I'm 534 00:20:15,065 --> 00:20:16,835 sorry. Who's fault? Sorry. Who's fault? I'm sorry. 535 00:20:16,934 --> 00:20:18,515 You feel that way. 536 00:20:20,190 --> 00:20:20,690 So 537 00:20:22,349 --> 00:20:24,130 what's going on here culturally? 538 00:20:24,669 --> 00:20:27,389 Because it's Yeah. Yeah. There's something going on. 539 00:20:27,389 --> 00:20:28,210 We have these 540 00:20:28,829 --> 00:20:30,349 in London, if you've been been to a 541 00:20:30,349 --> 00:20:30,849 stranger, 542 00:20:31,710 --> 00:20:34,845 you apologize immediately Yeah. For offending them. Yeah. 543 00:20:35,404 --> 00:20:36,625 And then in China, 544 00:20:37,724 --> 00:20:39,484 why do I even have to apologize to 545 00:20:39,484 --> 00:20:41,964 you if I bump into you? Uh-huh. Well, 546 00:20:41,964 --> 00:20:43,964 you know what? Hang on to that thought 547 00:20:43,964 --> 00:20:45,184 for a because 548 00:20:45,724 --> 00:20:47,484 we've got a little bit of business to 549 00:20:47,484 --> 00:20:48,924 do, and we're gonna take a break. So 550 00:20:48,924 --> 00:20:50,464 I'm sorry to interrupt you, 551 00:20:51,269 --> 00:20:53,109 but we're going to do that. And when 552 00:20:53,109 --> 00:20:55,049 we come back from the break, 553 00:20:55,910 --> 00:20:57,690 you're going to address that. 554 00:20:58,150 --> 00:20:58,549 And, 555 00:20:59,109 --> 00:21:00,970 Thornton's gonna add something 556 00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:02,250 that seems 557 00:21:03,109 --> 00:21:04,694 really hammers home this 558 00:21:05,255 --> 00:21:07,434 this whole idea of the of the Brit, 559 00:21:08,054 --> 00:21:10,075 apology. Well, hammer away. 560 00:21:10,375 --> 00:21:10,875 Well, 561 00:21:11,575 --> 00:21:13,434 alright then. I'm sorry. 562 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,380 While listening to this, you may think, hey. 563 00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:25,359 You know, I wonder well, if you have 564 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,519 a question like that and wanna ask us, 565 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:29,279 there's a couple ways you can do it. 566 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:34,134 One would be through email, which is oopscultureshow@atgmail.com. 567 00:21:34,134 --> 00:21:38,375 That's oopscultureshow@gmail.com. 568 00:21:38,375 --> 00:21:40,714 And then there's also our handle on Twitter, 569 00:21:40,775 --> 00:21:43,035 which is oops culture show. 570 00:21:43,494 --> 00:21:43,994 That's 571 00:21:44,934 --> 00:21:47,275 o o p s culture show. 572 00:21:47,815 --> 00:21:50,329 I know. I know. It's not original, but 573 00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:51,930 but it works. Okay? 574 00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:55,910 All you're seeing is the back of that, 575 00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:59,269 elderly Chinese woman moving away from you. Yeah. 576 00:21:59,269 --> 00:22:01,430 Flailing that elbow out to clear her way 577 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:03,904 So what on other people. What's behind all 578 00:22:03,904 --> 00:22:06,244 this? I don't know. That's why you're here. 579 00:22:08,384 --> 00:22:10,964 Oh, no. I'm now this is called 580 00:22:11,424 --> 00:22:14,224 I'm sorry, which is is kind of what 581 00:22:14,224 --> 00:22:15,924 is that? That's in The US 582 00:22:16,224 --> 00:22:17,204 that's being 583 00:22:17,529 --> 00:22:19,950 I'm sorry because you're so pitiful, 584 00:22:20,329 --> 00:22:21,150 which I believe. 585 00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:25,849 In in China, Asia too, and and to 586 00:22:25,849 --> 00:22:28,650 some degree, similarly in Tokyo. But let's use 587 00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:31,514 the example there. Very group oriented cultures Yeah. 588 00:22:31,674 --> 00:22:35,115 And very relationship based oriented cultures. So if 589 00:22:35,115 --> 00:22:37,115 I have a relationship with you, and the 590 00:22:37,115 --> 00:22:38,335 relationship could be 591 00:22:38,794 --> 00:22:41,674 as simple as somebody, a party introduced me 592 00:22:41,674 --> 00:22:44,255 to you. Right? Then I have an obligation 593 00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:46,650 because I know you, because I've been introduced 594 00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:49,069 to you, because you are somebody to me. 595 00:22:49,289 --> 00:22:50,750 We have some connection. 596 00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:53,390 Therefore, once that happens, 597 00:22:54,329 --> 00:22:56,269 then I am very, very 598 00:22:58,575 --> 00:23:00,275 concerned about your feelings 599 00:23:01,294 --> 00:23:02,355 and apologies 600 00:23:03,134 --> 00:23:05,694 are very, very much a part of how 601 00:23:05,694 --> 00:23:08,483 we get things done. Okay. But until I 602 00:23:08,483 --> 00:23:08,757 have that relationship, you are just an anonymous 603 00:23:08,757 --> 00:23:09,474 number on the street. You mean 604 00:23:16,910 --> 00:23:19,630 obligations to each other. See, in Chinese culture, 605 00:23:19,630 --> 00:23:21,710 Chinese culture for five thousand years ran on 606 00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:23,089 this idea of guanxi, 607 00:23:23,664 --> 00:23:24,565 which is obligations 608 00:23:25,184 --> 00:23:27,105 to take care of each other. So if 609 00:23:27,105 --> 00:23:28,565 we have a business relationship, 610 00:23:29,424 --> 00:23:31,904 then we are very careful with each other. 611 00:23:31,904 --> 00:23:33,365 But until we have guanxi, 612 00:23:33,984 --> 00:23:35,744 I don't know you, you don't know me. 613 00:23:35,744 --> 00:23:38,720 And in some cases, we're fully capable of 614 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,359 actually harming each other until we have a 615 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:42,579 reason not to. 616 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:43,859 Now, 617 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:44,740 therefore, 618 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,359 if I'm walking down the street and you're 619 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:48,579 blocking my way, 620 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:49,380 right, 621 00:23:50,424 --> 00:23:51,785 elbow you out of the way. I know 622 00:23:51,785 --> 00:23:53,384 I'm not going to cause you, you know, 623 00:23:53,384 --> 00:23:56,605 terrible harm. Right. And there's no apology necessary 624 00:23:56,744 --> 00:23:58,744 because we don't have any obligation to each 625 00:23:58,744 --> 00:24:00,744 other. Okay. I remember standing on a street 626 00:24:00,744 --> 00:24:03,640 corner in in in Seoul, Korea. Mhmm. And 627 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,420 I step outside of the hotel 628 00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:07,180 room to get a taxi. 629 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,360 And this taxi comes, and as soon as 630 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:12,279 the taxi pulls up to the curb, these 631 00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:13,820 two other Korean guys 632 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,519 leave the hotel and jump in front of 633 00:24:16,519 --> 00:24:18,674 me and jump into the taxi. 634 00:24:20,015 --> 00:24:23,055 Now, not so dissimilar to the behavior of 635 00:24:23,055 --> 00:24:24,095 a lot of people in a lot of 636 00:24:24,095 --> 00:24:26,015 big cities. And I've seen that happen in 637 00:24:26,015 --> 00:24:28,115 New York too. Right. Yeah. But 638 00:24:29,134 --> 00:24:31,634 but these two guys did it with such 639 00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:34,429 it's okay, you know. Like, I'm not trying 640 00:24:34,429 --> 00:24:35,970 to Is it okay? I'm not 641 00:24:36,509 --> 00:24:38,669 exactly. That's the difference. Yeah. You know, I'm 642 00:24:38,669 --> 00:24:40,349 not trying to get away with something. I 643 00:24:40,589 --> 00:24:42,669 it's not like I know I'm doing something 644 00:24:42,669 --> 00:24:45,069 bad, but I'm gonna get away with it 645 00:24:45,069 --> 00:24:46,210 anyway. Right. 646 00:24:46,714 --> 00:24:48,315 No. This is the way the game is 647 00:24:48,315 --> 00:24:50,234 played. I don't know you. You don't know 648 00:24:50,234 --> 00:24:52,335 me. We don't owe each other anything. 649 00:24:53,355 --> 00:24:53,855 Okay. 650 00:24:54,234 --> 00:24:57,115 So Now, again, you're speaking about that a 651 00:24:57,115 --> 00:25:00,075 little more broadly in the Asian context, or 652 00:25:00,075 --> 00:25:02,599 are you speaking about that specifically about Korea? 653 00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:05,779 South Korea? I I think we're talking about 654 00:25:05,859 --> 00:25:08,900 you'll see evidence of this kind of behavior. 655 00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,480 In one way or another? Yes. In places 656 00:25:11,619 --> 00:25:12,119 where 657 00:25:13,634 --> 00:25:14,855 relationships drive 658 00:25:15,154 --> 00:25:15,654 behavior. 659 00:25:15,955 --> 00:25:17,575 Okay. Not rules 660 00:25:17,955 --> 00:25:19,414 and processes. Okay. 661 00:25:20,115 --> 00:25:21,654 Yeah. Or have traditionally. 662 00:25:22,115 --> 00:25:24,295 Now, by the way, most of these places 663 00:25:24,355 --> 00:25:26,980 are intention over this. Yeah. Right? Because they 664 00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:27,799 know that 665 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,179 the the rest of the world might not 666 00:25:30,179 --> 00:25:32,599 subscribe to this way of doing things. Right. 667 00:25:32,660 --> 00:25:35,460 And and so the idea of applying some 668 00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:36,200 sort of 669 00:25:37,940 --> 00:25:38,440 protocol 670 00:25:38,740 --> 00:25:40,184 or etiquette or even 671 00:25:40,745 --> 00:25:41,805 a moral reason 672 00:25:42,184 --> 00:25:43,404 not to do that 673 00:25:44,585 --> 00:25:46,904 is a real consideration to me. Uh-huh. Right. 674 00:25:46,904 --> 00:25:48,505 So not everybody is going to behave this 675 00:25:48,505 --> 00:25:49,565 way, but traditionally, 676 00:25:50,184 --> 00:25:52,265 and in these cultures, these traditions go back 677 00:25:52,265 --> 00:25:54,025 5,000. Right. So they have a lot of 678 00:25:54,025 --> 00:25:56,839 weight. Yeah. Yeah. So so traditionally, though, this 679 00:25:56,839 --> 00:25:59,240 was an acceptable behavior. Right. If I don't 680 00:25:59,240 --> 00:25:59,900 know you, 681 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,579 hey, you know? Sure. 682 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:03,880 Now once we know each other, then we're 683 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,679 very, very careful about our human relationship. So 684 00:26:06,679 --> 00:26:07,579 does it swing 685 00:26:08,085 --> 00:26:09,304 when you say very, very, 686 00:26:09,605 --> 00:26:11,605 meaning it swings Very much the other way. 687 00:26:11,605 --> 00:26:12,804 Much to the other. And then you get 688 00:26:12,804 --> 00:26:15,525 all these apologies all the time. Okay. But 689 00:26:15,525 --> 00:26:18,164 until that happens Yeah. There's no reason to 690 00:26:18,164 --> 00:26:18,664 apologize. 691 00:26:18,964 --> 00:26:20,900 Yeah. Then you take the flip side, you 692 00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:21,720 go to London, 693 00:26:22,099 --> 00:26:23,700 and and as soon as you, you know, 694 00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:25,079 bump into a stranger, 695 00:26:25,539 --> 00:26:27,460 then you get you're setting off this whole 696 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:30,500 apology bomb that goes back and Sure. And 697 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:32,500 so what's that about? You know, why do 698 00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:33,240 we apologize 699 00:26:33,539 --> 00:26:34,279 to strangers? 700 00:26:34,740 --> 00:26:37,234 Uh-huh. Right? And and and then when we 701 00:26:37,234 --> 00:26:38,615 get to know each other, 702 00:26:39,075 --> 00:26:41,234 once we get to know each other, then 703 00:26:41,234 --> 00:26:44,115 we can act much more truthfully with each 704 00:26:44,115 --> 00:26:46,994 other. Right. So the it's it's once the 705 00:26:46,994 --> 00:26:48,214 relationship starts 706 00:26:49,315 --> 00:26:49,815 in 707 00:26:50,275 --> 00:26:50,775 London, 708 00:26:51,740 --> 00:26:53,580 then we can be honest with each other. 709 00:26:53,580 --> 00:26:54,559 Right. But 710 00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:56,940 but until that time, we have to be 711 00:26:56,940 --> 00:26:58,799 very respectful of intruding 712 00:26:59,100 --> 00:26:59,600 on 713 00:26:59,980 --> 00:27:01,840 or or causing any kind of discomfort 714 00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:03,039 to the stranger. 715 00:27:03,684 --> 00:27:05,445 I see what you're saying. Yeah. A Korean 716 00:27:05,445 --> 00:27:07,445 friend of mine said, actually, once he says 717 00:27:07,445 --> 00:27:09,305 it's very strange in the West, 718 00:27:10,085 --> 00:27:11,605 you're you're very, very, 719 00:27:11,924 --> 00:27:15,605 kind with strangers Yes. But not so kind 720 00:27:15,605 --> 00:27:17,125 with the with the people 721 00:27:17,525 --> 00:27:19,900 The closest to you. Yeah. And then in 722 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:20,400 Korea, 723 00:27:20,779 --> 00:27:21,279 we're 724 00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:22,480 extremely 725 00:27:22,859 --> 00:27:25,339 kind with the people who mean the most 726 00:27:25,339 --> 00:27:26,000 to us. 727 00:27:27,099 --> 00:27:29,180 But why do we care about strangers we 728 00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:32,140 don't know? Right. Right. So there's a logic 729 00:27:32,140 --> 00:27:34,539 to both of these things. Right? Well, it 730 00:27:34,662 --> 00:27:36,325 of some some work 731 00:27:36,865 --> 00:27:37,845 of some kind. 732 00:27:38,384 --> 00:27:40,164 Yeah. Sure. It's it's 733 00:27:40,865 --> 00:27:43,025 that's really interesting. And then why did the 734 00:27:43,025 --> 00:27:45,105 guy the Chinese guy in the pool in 735 00:27:45,105 --> 00:27:45,605 Beijing 736 00:27:46,545 --> 00:27:49,869 slam into the into the western swimmer, and 737 00:27:49,869 --> 00:27:52,130 then come up and laugh at him. Right. 738 00:27:52,590 --> 00:27:55,470 But but but what is exactly what was 739 00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:58,109 the reason? Did did your friend ever find 740 00:27:58,109 --> 00:28:00,690 out what the reason was behind the laughter? 741 00:28:00,910 --> 00:28:03,170 Yeah. Sure. Well, the laughter, that's the cultural 742 00:28:03,230 --> 00:28:05,144 piece. Well, it is. But I'm wondering is 743 00:28:05,144 --> 00:28:08,505 that an embarrassment or Exactly. Okay. The guy 744 00:28:08,505 --> 00:28:10,744 realized he caused an accident and that he 745 00:28:10,744 --> 00:28:12,265 was at fault. Is that what's the reaction? 746 00:28:12,265 --> 00:28:14,424 Alright. So anybody can do that. Right? But 747 00:28:14,424 --> 00:28:15,644 it's about the reaction. 748 00:28:15,944 --> 00:28:17,804 Yeah. Instead of getting an apology, 749 00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:21,940 the more important issue in Chinese culture Mhmm. 750 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:24,420 Especially since you're a stranger. That's Mhmm. Like 751 00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:25,000 the the 752 00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:27,460 old lady with the with her elbows in 753 00:28:27,460 --> 00:28:28,680 my ribs. Right. 754 00:28:28,980 --> 00:28:31,779 The more important issue with the stranger is 755 00:28:31,779 --> 00:28:32,279 to 756 00:28:33,275 --> 00:28:34,255 make the situation 757 00:28:34,794 --> 00:28:37,294 comfortable because clearly what you did 758 00:28:37,595 --> 00:28:40,394 was you caused you caused the situation to 759 00:28:40,394 --> 00:28:41,134 be uncomfortable. 760 00:28:41,674 --> 00:28:44,315 Yep. You made a mistake. Yeah. So you 761 00:28:44,315 --> 00:28:45,214 lost face. 762 00:28:45,580 --> 00:28:48,240 Okay. And and you caused the the the 763 00:28:48,460 --> 00:28:49,039 the bumpy 764 00:28:49,420 --> 00:28:51,900 to also or the bumper, I don't know, 765 00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:54,779 to also lose face. Maybe the water was 766 00:28:54,779 --> 00:28:55,279 cold. 767 00:28:55,580 --> 00:28:58,220 That may have created the the bumpiness. For 768 00:28:58,220 --> 00:28:59,920 whatever reason. Oh, okay. 769 00:29:00,299 --> 00:29:02,575 So the way to set everything right Uh-huh. 770 00:29:02,654 --> 00:29:04,575 Is to laugh about it. Yeah. Sure. And 771 00:29:04,575 --> 00:29:07,454 please join me in the laughter. No. Okay. 772 00:29:07,454 --> 00:29:08,194 The response 773 00:29:08,494 --> 00:29:10,115 from the western swimmer 774 00:29:10,494 --> 00:29:11,554 should have been 775 00:29:12,335 --> 00:29:15,775 to laugh with him. Right. Okay. No. That's 776 00:29:15,775 --> 00:29:19,640 interesting. That's that's unlike road rage. Right? You're 777 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,799 Yeah. Now then so now let's We're on 778 00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:23,320 the other end of this spectrum. Some of 779 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,240 these other cultures. Right. Let's look at The 780 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,600 US where all you gotta do is Well 781 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,259 get in your car and look at somebody, 782 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,934 and it's like I'm chest bumping you all 783 00:29:31,934 --> 00:29:33,694 the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now we're in 784 00:29:33,694 --> 00:29:34,674 total confrontation. 785 00:29:35,055 --> 00:29:37,535 Right? Until most of people until you get 786 00:29:37,535 --> 00:29:39,234 out of the car, and then it becomes 787 00:29:39,615 --> 00:29:42,015 a different approach. But if if, 788 00:29:42,734 --> 00:29:45,134 okay. Let's but let's jump back to to 789 00:29:45,134 --> 00:29:45,990 England now 790 00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:48,329 for a because I mentioned 791 00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:50,089 a little earlier that 792 00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:51,769 Torin had this 793 00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:55,369 article, I believe, Torin, that 794 00:29:55,829 --> 00:29:57,670 right? That's right. Yet you 795 00:29:58,244 --> 00:30:00,744 that he read in the New York Times 796 00:30:01,365 --> 00:30:01,865 regarding 797 00:30:02,484 --> 00:30:02,984 trains 798 00:30:04,244 --> 00:30:07,204 and and and primarily England, I think, and 799 00:30:07,365 --> 00:30:09,845 Right. The and apologizing. Oh, I believe I 800 00:30:09,845 --> 00:30:12,279 saw that article. Did you? Because they weren't 801 00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:14,920 running on time, and so Yeah. The Well 802 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,559 well, Tor, what what what fill us in. 803 00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:19,240 Yeah. I was talking about this one railway 804 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,000 company in The UK in particular and how 805 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,654 there had been more schedule changes than usual, 806 00:30:23,654 --> 00:30:24,555 more upgrades 807 00:30:25,015 --> 00:30:26,535 going on than usual. So there were more 808 00:30:26,535 --> 00:30:29,434 complaints coming in to this railway company. 809 00:30:30,134 --> 00:30:31,975 So it sort of started there. The article 810 00:30:31,975 --> 00:30:34,055 began there, but then it generalized a little 811 00:30:34,055 --> 00:30:36,609 bit to talking about the different railway companies 812 00:30:36,609 --> 00:30:38,230 in The UK and saying how, 813 00:30:39,169 --> 00:30:41,569 typically, there's a lot of apologizing going on. 814 00:30:41,569 --> 00:30:43,089 In fact, it was saying for this one 815 00:30:43,089 --> 00:30:44,950 railway company, Great Western, 816 00:30:45,569 --> 00:30:47,509 they will, on average, submit, 817 00:30:48,694 --> 00:30:50,075 or I should say tweet, 818 00:30:50,454 --> 00:30:53,115 so submit on Twitter over 100 apologies 819 00:30:53,654 --> 00:30:54,315 per day. 820 00:30:54,615 --> 00:30:56,615 And there was actually one other UK railway 821 00:30:56,615 --> 00:30:57,595 company that, 822 00:30:58,054 --> 00:31:00,054 tweets out more apologies per day. So this 823 00:31:00,054 --> 00:31:00,954 was not uncommon. 824 00:31:01,679 --> 00:31:03,039 And in fact, there's a website that you 825 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:06,179 can go to that collects UK Railway apologies 826 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,079 called sorryfortheinconvenience.c0.uk. 827 00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:11,519 So you can go there and see those 828 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:13,519 apologies for yourself. But it was saying how 829 00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:15,679 great Western has their own social media team. 830 00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:17,724 I think there were six people on the 831 00:31:17,724 --> 00:31:20,044 team where their full time job is to 832 00:31:20,044 --> 00:31:22,044 wait for complaints to come in on Twitter 833 00:31:22,044 --> 00:31:23,804 and to reply to them in real time 834 00:31:23,804 --> 00:31:26,285 and apologize, and to make those apologies as 835 00:31:26,285 --> 00:31:28,544 personal and as warm as possible. 836 00:31:29,099 --> 00:31:31,180 And the article even actually sort of related 837 00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:32,940 back to the last couple of episodes that 838 00:31:32,940 --> 00:31:35,440 that we did because it was mentioning how 839 00:31:35,579 --> 00:31:37,119 just to what, you know, Dean, 840 00:31:37,579 --> 00:31:39,579 you were talking about, where there's a lot 841 00:31:39,579 --> 00:31:41,819 of apologizing going on, generally speaking, in The 842 00:31:41,819 --> 00:31:43,359 UK, and how the word pardon 843 00:31:43,674 --> 00:31:46,255 comes up over 300 times across 844 00:31:46,634 --> 00:31:48,015 all of Shakespeare's plays. 845 00:31:48,394 --> 00:31:49,914 So it connects right back to, 846 00:31:50,474 --> 00:31:51,914 Shakespeare that we were talking about the last 847 00:31:51,914 --> 00:31:53,674 couple of episodes. And and again, this idea 848 00:31:53,674 --> 00:31:55,434 of a lot of apologizing going on in 849 00:31:55,434 --> 00:31:56,815 The UK. Right. 850 00:31:57,250 --> 00:31:59,970 of all, that's an amazing number of of 851 00:31:59,970 --> 00:32:00,470 apologies 852 00:32:01,410 --> 00:32:01,809 in, 853 00:32:02,369 --> 00:32:05,089 for the train people. I mean, I'm thinking 854 00:32:05,089 --> 00:32:07,730 about in in especially in New York with 855 00:32:08,049 --> 00:32:09,669 in in this whole Northeastern 856 00:32:09,970 --> 00:32:12,934 United States region where the train system is 857 00:32:12,934 --> 00:32:14,475 basically one gigantic 858 00:32:15,095 --> 00:32:15,595 disaster 859 00:32:16,855 --> 00:32:18,795 on a regular basis. And 860 00:32:19,335 --> 00:32:21,975 they're talking about all sorts of work being 861 00:32:21,975 --> 00:32:23,910 done, which is a good thing, but it 862 00:32:24,150 --> 00:32:25,049 it's a mess. 863 00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:27,930 And and I nobody's apologizing 864 00:32:28,309 --> 00:32:31,369 for anything. Wait a minute. A public works 865 00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:31,930 project 866 00:32:32,309 --> 00:32:32,809 like 867 00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:33,610 trains 868 00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:34,730 transportation 869 00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:37,450 based on the premise of 870 00:32:38,924 --> 00:32:40,784 individuals giving up their 871 00:32:41,404 --> 00:32:44,444 personal private right to get around in their 872 00:32:44,444 --> 00:32:46,704 own personal private vehicle 873 00:32:47,565 --> 00:32:48,544 isn't working 874 00:32:49,724 --> 00:32:51,325 in The US? I don't know if we 875 00:32:51,325 --> 00:32:52,865 wanna go that far. I think, 876 00:32:55,779 --> 00:32:57,779 yeah. I think that idea is changing, by 877 00:32:57,779 --> 00:32:59,700 the way. But Well, it is. It's gonna 878 00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:00,519 be an evolutionary 879 00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:02,679 process. Yes, I believe. 880 00:33:03,539 --> 00:33:05,859 Unless there's a major thing that happens to 881 00:33:05,859 --> 00:33:07,379 to move it along. We don't we don't 882 00:33:07,379 --> 00:33:09,795 like to give up our own individual things 883 00:33:09,855 --> 00:33:11,855 in The United States. No. That's it. It 884 00:33:11,855 --> 00:33:13,875 it it's a very strongly individualistic 885 00:33:14,494 --> 00:33:17,855 oriented culture. And Yep. Anything that challenges the 886 00:33:17,855 --> 00:33:20,355 individual's right to do whatever they want 887 00:33:20,830 --> 00:33:23,230 as at the expense of and to be 888 00:33:23,230 --> 00:33:24,049 in competition 889 00:33:24,350 --> 00:33:26,269 with the rights of other individuals 890 00:33:26,670 --> 00:33:29,309 Mhmm. Is considered an okay thing Mhmm. Until 891 00:33:29,309 --> 00:33:32,029 it reaches a point where it becomes so 892 00:33:32,029 --> 00:33:33,250 obviously not 893 00:33:33,684 --> 00:33:34,505 not doable. 894 00:33:36,244 --> 00:33:38,505 Great. That's another podcast, and 895 00:33:38,884 --> 00:33:41,465 which which we'll probably get to soon. But, 896 00:33:42,244 --> 00:33:42,805 right now 897 00:33:43,684 --> 00:33:45,625 so before we get away from the article, 898 00:33:45,684 --> 00:33:46,184 the 899 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,059 the the idea 900 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,259 of the it's I almost 901 00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:54,720 hear this as what you were talking about 902 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,420 before, but being used 903 00:33:56,799 --> 00:33:58,480 a little differently. And when I say that, 904 00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,380 I mean the 905 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:00,180 apology 906 00:34:00,855 --> 00:34:01,355 ahead 907 00:34:01,734 --> 00:34:02,795 of this situation. 908 00:34:03,575 --> 00:34:04,394 So that 909 00:34:04,855 --> 00:34:07,494 it it almost sounds like the the greater 910 00:34:07,494 --> 00:34:10,394 use in this kind of in this area 911 00:34:10,534 --> 00:34:11,434 with the trains 912 00:34:12,135 --> 00:34:13,675 is being done because 913 00:34:14,054 --> 00:34:15,835 it may be able to 914 00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:19,570 soften the blow. Mhmm. And then protect those 915 00:34:19,630 --> 00:34:20,130 who 916 00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:23,230 are creating the problems or Yeah. And maybe 917 00:34:23,230 --> 00:34:24,750 not I mean, they may be trying to 918 00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:27,650 do good things, but there's going to be 919 00:34:28,110 --> 00:34:29,250 difficulties, hardships. 920 00:34:30,264 --> 00:34:32,744 It's going to maybe making something that is 921 00:34:32,744 --> 00:34:34,525 used in The UK. 922 00:34:34,905 --> 00:34:36,844 The train system is used extensively. 923 00:34:37,304 --> 00:34:39,065 It's a small island, and getting people around. 924 00:34:39,065 --> 00:34:41,005 I mean, that is where the Industrial Revolution 925 00:34:41,065 --> 00:34:42,204 began historically. 926 00:34:42,664 --> 00:34:44,295 They built the train. And what it is 927 00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:45,880 is a vital, 928 00:34:46,180 --> 00:34:46,680 thriving, 929 00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:50,039 part of London life. 930 00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:52,340 So all of that, along with the regular 931 00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:53,160 train system, 932 00:34:54,180 --> 00:34:55,559 which all of this apologizing 933 00:34:55,860 --> 00:34:56,840 is coming from, 934 00:34:57,554 --> 00:34:59,474 It sounds to me that Don't you think 935 00:34:59,474 --> 00:35:01,335 or am I misreading this? Well, 936 00:35:02,434 --> 00:35:03,494 I think you're right. 937 00:35:03,875 --> 00:35:04,835 I think that, 938 00:35:06,034 --> 00:35:08,034 I don't want to say that 939 00:35:08,914 --> 00:35:10,835 I don't want to imply that there are 940 00:35:10,835 --> 00:35:12,840 people in Britain who wouldn't think 941 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,099 that think cynically 942 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,219 around this and who wouldn't be surprised that, 943 00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:20,360 they were having to make all these apologies 944 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,900 and that they were very disingenuous 945 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,000 with these apologies. Mhmm. I I'm sure there 946 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,680 are lots of folks who would feel that 947 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,280 way and I'm not gonna say that's wrong 948 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,795 because I'm not experiencing 949 00:35:30,094 --> 00:35:31,934 the the fallout the way they would the 950 00:35:31,934 --> 00:35:32,914 way they do. 951 00:35:33,934 --> 00:35:35,614 But at the same time, I think there 952 00:35:35,614 --> 00:35:38,194 is an element to this that is genuine. 953 00:35:39,214 --> 00:35:41,775 Where there where it is coming from a 954 00:35:41,775 --> 00:35:42,275 place 955 00:35:42,890 --> 00:35:44,750 where from a cultural perspective, 956 00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:49,150 we're having to admit that something is wrong. 957 00:35:50,090 --> 00:35:52,489 So it's really there is an honesty to 958 00:35:52,489 --> 00:35:54,250 it, you're thinking. Yeah. I think it's An 959 00:35:54,250 --> 00:35:54,750 obligation 960 00:35:55,130 --> 00:35:57,644 perhaps, A little bit obligatory. Right. And I 961 00:35:57,644 --> 00:35:58,785 think that element 962 00:36:00,045 --> 00:36:00,785 is missing 963 00:36:01,965 --> 00:36:04,864 in the Northeastern trade system. Oh, absolutely. 964 00:36:05,164 --> 00:36:08,605 Mhmm. Where where I, number one, because I 965 00:36:08,605 --> 00:36:10,845 can say it because I am here and 966 00:36:10,845 --> 00:36:12,440 I am experiencing it 967 00:36:12,739 --> 00:36:15,460 can be very cynical about it. Mhmm. Oh, 968 00:36:15,460 --> 00:36:17,239 yes. Because I don't believe 969 00:36:17,539 --> 00:36:20,599 that there is any real sense of apology. 970 00:36:21,139 --> 00:36:24,019 Right. Right. For what's going on or any 971 00:36:24,019 --> 00:36:24,839 real caring 972 00:36:26,235 --> 00:36:28,894 for the consequences of of what this does 973 00:36:29,035 --> 00:36:30,015 to the individual. 974 00:36:30,635 --> 00:36:32,715 Because we don't have that piece built into 975 00:36:32,715 --> 00:36:34,255 our culture. No. In fact, 976 00:36:34,555 --> 00:36:36,255 I'm gonna jump in and say, 977 00:36:37,115 --> 00:36:39,675 again, because of coming from The US and 978 00:36:39,675 --> 00:36:41,135 the Northeastern US, 979 00:36:41,434 --> 00:36:41,934 that 980 00:36:42,289 --> 00:36:43,829 the the idea would be 981 00:36:44,289 --> 00:36:46,789 they're not going to start to apologize 982 00:36:47,409 --> 00:36:49,670 until somebody comes after them 983 00:36:50,289 --> 00:36:52,609 with a problem that they may have caused. 984 00:36:52,609 --> 00:36:55,635 And even then, they'll probably try to get 985 00:36:55,875 --> 00:36:56,614 to defend 986 00:36:57,394 --> 00:36:59,315 it before they revert to, 987 00:37:00,355 --> 00:37:01,894 apologizing. Yeah. Absolutely. 988 00:37:02,914 --> 00:37:06,034 Because the the reasons why the system is 989 00:37:06,034 --> 00:37:07,414 working the way it is 990 00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:09,309 have greater validity 991 00:37:09,849 --> 00:37:11,150 than the consequence 992 00:37:11,610 --> 00:37:14,110 that it's causing a great deal of inconvenience 993 00:37:14,170 --> 00:37:15,469 and suffering. Sure. 994 00:37:16,329 --> 00:37:18,969 And so therefore, it is the way it 995 00:37:18,969 --> 00:37:21,369 is. Yeah. You know? And I think that 996 00:37:21,369 --> 00:37:22,349 missing element 997 00:37:23,295 --> 00:37:24,355 of sincerely 998 00:37:24,655 --> 00:37:27,614 believing that, gee, things are not right, and 999 00:37:27,614 --> 00:37:29,775 we're gonna make it right. And until that 1000 00:37:29,775 --> 00:37:30,275 happens, 1001 00:37:31,054 --> 00:37:33,534 we're sorry about it. Right. That's just not 1002 00:37:33,534 --> 00:37:36,434 baked into The US DNA. Yeah. Yeah. 1003 00:37:37,295 --> 00:37:38,190 Well, we're done. 1004 00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:42,849 Actually, we we kind of are. But as 1005 00:37:43,389 --> 00:37:45,389 you know, it takes us a while to 1006 00:37:45,389 --> 00:37:47,630 finish these. There are a lot of other 1007 00:37:47,630 --> 00:37:49,389 cultures we need to talk about this whole 1008 00:37:49,389 --> 00:37:51,730 thing about apologizing for. Okay. 1009 00:37:52,614 --> 00:37:54,175 Not just Well, I'm guessing that we're going 1010 00:37:54,175 --> 00:37:56,295 to go and in fact, we we we 1011 00:37:56,295 --> 00:37:58,375 will hang on. I'm gonna put my mouth 1012 00:37:58,375 --> 00:38:00,135 back on. Hang on. I just fell on 1013 00:38:00,135 --> 00:38:01,494 the floor. Let me get it. I'm sorry. 1014 00:38:01,494 --> 00:38:04,715 I didn't I didn't okay. We will address 1015 00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:08,400 this We will. Numerous times in the future. 1016 00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:10,619 We will come back as we will be 1017 00:38:10,619 --> 00:38:12,880 doing with other subjects that we've already, 1018 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:14,000 addressed, 1019 00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:16,300 that we will be doing in the future 1020 00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:18,465 as well. Let's talk about those cultures where 1021 00:38:18,625 --> 00:38:21,025 even the hint of an apology Here we 1022 00:38:21,025 --> 00:38:21,925 go. Is considered, 1023 00:38:22,465 --> 00:38:24,085 we're never gonna do that. 1024 00:38:24,545 --> 00:38:25,045 What? 1025 00:38:25,585 --> 00:38:27,744 Oh. No. We we you and I will 1026 00:38:27,744 --> 00:38:30,224 do that. Oh, I see. Okay. I was 1027 00:38:30,224 --> 00:38:32,545 really throwing a lot of quotation marks. I 1028 00:38:32,545 --> 00:38:35,119 think our train has left the station now. 1029 00:38:35,420 --> 00:38:35,579 That's 1030 00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:40,299 so, Torin. Hey. Torin, we wanna thank you 1031 00:38:40,299 --> 00:38:42,000 for bringing us the information 1032 00:38:42,460 --> 00:38:42,960 on, 1033 00:38:43,339 --> 00:38:45,819 on England. Sure. I'm sorry I didn't bring 1034 00:38:45,819 --> 00:38:47,579 it around. You don't have to apologize. Okay. 1035 00:38:47,579 --> 00:38:49,815 Okay. Okay. Well, by the way, I'm sorry 1036 00:38:49,815 --> 00:38:52,614 that we didn't do grammar time in this 1037 00:38:52,614 --> 00:38:55,094 episode because I know everyone loves grammar time. 1038 00:38:55,094 --> 00:38:58,454 Mhmm. Not grandma time, but grammar time. It's 1039 00:38:59,014 --> 00:39:01,734 Everybody feels close to grandma time. Do they? 1040 00:39:01,734 --> 00:39:03,195 Don't they? No. 1041 00:39:03,609 --> 00:39:06,250 You never met my grandma. Everybody. That's for 1042 00:39:06,250 --> 00:39:08,109 sure. Yeah. Okay. It's fine. 1043 00:39:08,730 --> 00:39:10,429 We could look into that. Elderly, 1044 00:39:11,449 --> 00:39:14,409 people and the relationship in their families throughout 1045 00:39:14,409 --> 00:39:14,909 cultures. 1046 00:39:15,210 --> 00:39:15,710 Nuclear 1047 00:39:16,170 --> 00:39:19,394 families and and and extended families. Are we 1048 00:39:19,474 --> 00:39:20,534 having some sort of radiation 1049 00:39:20,994 --> 00:39:23,175 going on? Or It's possible. 1050 00:39:23,795 --> 00:39:24,295 New 1051 00:39:24,914 --> 00:39:27,074 nuclear. You live to a certain age. You 1052 00:39:27,074 --> 00:39:28,695 might need some. Yeah. 1053 00:39:30,755 --> 00:39:31,815 I will say 1054 00:39:32,849 --> 00:39:34,930 thank you, Dean, for Thank you, Tom. For 1055 00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:37,570 your insights. Once again, it it's been it's 1056 00:39:37,570 --> 00:39:38,470 been stimulating. 1057 00:39:39,730 --> 00:39:42,130 Good. I'm I think I'm sorry for using 1058 00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:44,844 that word, but it's it's been stimulating. And 1059 00:39:44,844 --> 00:39:45,585 if I've 1060 00:39:46,045 --> 00:39:48,204 offended you or any of our listeners in 1061 00:39:48,204 --> 00:39:49,025 any way, 1062 00:39:50,125 --> 00:39:52,305 I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. 1063 00:39:52,684 --> 00:39:53,505 You know what? 1064 00:39:54,125 --> 00:39:54,625 Oops. 1065 00:39:55,805 --> 00:39:57,105 Your culture's showing. 1066 00:39:57,485 --> 00:39:57,985 Sorry. 1067 00:40:07,849 --> 00:40:10,650 Smell you. Just wanna bother you one last 1068 00:40:10,650 --> 00:40:13,714 time to say we're a brand new podcast 1069 00:40:13,855 --> 00:40:15,954 here at Oops Your Culture Showing 1070 00:40:16,255 --> 00:40:18,494 and we could really use your help by 1071 00:40:18,494 --> 00:40:20,194 subscribing to the podcast. 1072 00:40:20,654 --> 00:40:22,335 And not to mention that if if you 1073 00:40:22,335 --> 00:40:24,174 hung around this long and and you liked 1074 00:40:24,174 --> 00:40:26,609 what you heard, well, this makes it just 1075 00:40:26,609 --> 00:40:28,609 easier for you to get the podcast. They'll 1076 00:40:28,609 --> 00:40:31,269 pop up for you whenever they're released. So 1077 00:40:31,409 --> 00:40:32,929 you can listen to them on your phone 1078 00:40:32,929 --> 00:40:35,250 or your computer or however you listen to 1079 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:37,750 them. And it's easy to get too. Just 1080 00:40:37,969 --> 00:40:41,795 subscribe using iTunes or wherever you get your 1081 00:40:41,795 --> 00:40:42,775 podcast from. 1082 00:40:43,074 --> 00:40:45,795 It really isn't hard, and we could really 1083 00:40:45,795 --> 00:40:46,775 use your support. 1084 00:40:47,234 --> 00:40:49,795 So from all of us here at Oops 1085 00:40:49,795 --> 00:40:50,855 Your Culture Showing, 1086 00:40:51,315 --> 00:40:51,815 thanks.