For all of you who are sitting out
there wondering about more food, last podcast, we
talked about foods around the globe. You remember
that, Dean?
No. He's got nothing.
He's just staring at me.
And, why am I surprised by this? I
will tell you that we talked about food
around the globe. We're gonna be talking more
about food around the globe today. Do I
eat it? Do I not eat it? Do
I do I pass it around? I mean,
I mean, I'm not gonna Should I touch
it, not touch it? And what do I
touch it with? Yeah. Yeah. And we've also
got a listener. And,
they wrote to us and and had a
question, which is really kind of intriguing and
interesting because it leads us into an area
that a lot of people, especially people in
the US, but I think in a lot
of parts of the world, they don't really
know or understand very well. Oh, let's hear
it. Well, we'll we'll we'll get to it.
Hold on.
Tell me gratification
again. And,
we will
and and then we've got, we've got some
other stuff. Torin, our producer's here. And and
hi, Torin. Hello. And, what else are we
talking about today? Some etiquette around eating eating
different foods. Are you gonna talk about more
food god. Around the world, and then how
do you Is that your idea, Dean? Go
ahead, eat them. I had nothing to do
with it. Okay. Great.
So etiquette also, Alright. And there's something with
exploding. I I'm not gonna Are you I'm
I'm alright. Okay. Yeah. Oh, we we're gonna
frightened. When we talk about this stuff, we
have to explode some myths. Well, okay then.
Well, in that case, guess what? Started. Guess
what?
Oops.
Your culture's showing.
And I'm Tom Peterson, and I'm, here with
my co host, Dean Foster,
who, as I read on a bathroom wall
just last week, is an expert in cultures
around the world.
So, Dean, what I was
dying to ask you about Dying to ask
you? Well, that may be extreme, but basically,
yeah. That what I wanna ask you about
was
fish.
I I just wanna know if there's a
cultural aspect
that you can can come up with here
for fish.
Didn't we once talk about
the ceremony of the head of the fish
in China? Uh-huh. Right? We did. You know,
where the you're the honored guest receives the
head of the fish because Yep. It's supposed
to be the most tasty part of the
fish. The cheeks, actually, the area right right
in front of the gills. Now
do we really buy that, or is that
look. If I had if you had I
don't buy it at all. I either buy
the fish or the fish. Because somebody offers
it.
When I go in a store, I'm talking
buying I see. I see.
I'm not talking about the actual
fish. I'm talking about the concept.
Again, I'm sort of looking at it in
a sense of, okay,
perhaps
the cheek of the fish.
And and and, by the way,
I'm going to be lined up with the
people who are going
wait.
Fish have cheeks?
But if if we go to the fish
cheek and we're eating that cheek fish. No.
Wait. Hold on. Fish cheek. Fish cheek.
And
if if we're doing that,
is it because we it's it's really that
good, like, we're being sold, or is it
because
we don't have a lot
and this will encourage people
by everyone agreeing that these parts of the
head
are are better tasting? Well, the scarcity issue,
yeah, makes it very ceremonial, makes it very
special. So So we we make
a a concept that is adjusted and adapted
over time
that bigger more and more people will do
it so that you will you will eat
this. Yeah. And you will actually use up
the the the stuff they have. The scarcer
it is, the more special it is. Even
if it's, I mean see,
not as dumb as he looks.
Old Fishcheeks Foster.
Fishcheeks
Foster. That's not easy to say. Foster. Now
how did you know that was what they
called me in junior high? Is it? Yeah.
And how much do I know I don't
wanna know why?
Well But I'm thinking, like, the different kinds
of foods that are out there, you know,
whether they're ceremonial or whether they're just day
to day foods, they they all are subject
to these kinds of rules, the cultural rules
and the economic rules
and which determines why or why we eat
them or not. There's also a use of
fish in ways that isn't about eating it,
That that you can, like What else do
you do with a fish that other than
eat it? I, I've well, you can have
a nice conversation with the fish. And you'll
always be right. Decorative. How many people have
fish tanks?
And Oh. And you have the feng shui
that we've spoken about. That's right. Where you
have that placed in certain positions and places.
And there's
a good luck aspect of I may be
oversimplifying it, but
that kind of thing that goes along with
it. And then there's the I mean, there's
the Moby Dick
idea of of the kind of massive fish
and power fish, jaws.
That that concept, I mean, I does is
that cultural? I mean, is there is there
an aspect to that that says well, the
whole the fish, I think, plays a powerful
role in a lot of,
Genesis myths. Jonah and the whale. Yes. Jonah
and the whale and and and these great
beasts that are under the water and as
part of classical Greece classical Greek story. Sure.
Sure. The heroes and Homer's Odyssey and
the encounters with, you know, the mermaids and
the strange sea creatures that are that are
lurking out there. I think it speaks to,
you know, the unknown and the things that
we 20,000 leagues under the sea. Sure. It's
been Yep. Part of our literature. Yeah. Yeah.
So
So eat it. You know? If it's on
your plate, eat it. Because Eat that cheek.
Right. Because this creature cheek. You know, now
it's kind of like once you eat it,
then you know it. You've conquered it. And
you know what?
Maybe there is also, like, eating the you
we we talked about things. You were talking
about, like, eating the you get the goat's
eye or some other tongue of something and
things like that. Well, and we were saying,
I think, in Kazakhstan, depending on the part
of the animal that you're given Yeah. That's
been sacrificed in your honor, it's a way
of acknowledging a certain aspect of you and
your personality.
So if you're given the eye, that means
you're very wise. Yeah. They see you as
very wise. Yeah. If you're given the tongue,
that means you talk a lot
in a good way, I guess. Oh, really?
Okay. So you can imagine that Well, you
took it that way. I'm sure. What parts
of the body
I was given. I don't want no. No.
I'm not going to imagine that. I'm I'm
gonna have incredible control over myself and not
imagine that. I was, just
I I just saw a Broadway show called
Come From Away, which is about
north Newfoundland.
And
if you visit Newfoundland, one of the ceremonies
that gets you into the community
says you have to kiss a cod.
Seriously? You have to kiss a cod. Okay.
Yeah. A live cod. Okay. Right?
It sounds like it sounds like some sort
of weird dating Presuming that a cod has
lips.
Well
And if it's a French cod, they have
it.
Then you have
more than just the lips involved. I guess
so. Well,
if
look. All the cods I dated had lips.
Okay? So that's all I can speak to.
But as a person who actually have caught
I I actually have caught a great many
cod. There are several different kinds. Do do
they have lips?
Most. I cannot remember any that I caught
that did not have lips. Did you ever
kiss them?
I think that's personal between me and the
cod.
And if the cod's not speaking, I'd ask
you. No.
Maybe. That's correct. But, you know, to this
to this idea of doing
challenging, difficult things Yes. Like, in some of
the some tribes in East Africa Yeah.
To show your manhood, and it's often part
of a rite of passage Yep. Coming of
age. Coming of age. Yeah.
You'd you'll cut the vein. The elder will
cut the vein of a of a cow.
And cows are very, very valuable
and very important aspects of
daily social life there. The more cows someone
owns, the wealthier they are, the higher the
status, etcetera.
So you you cut a vein of the
cow and you collect some of the blood,
and then you drink it. Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's a tough one. Mhmm. But how different
is that really from black pudding?
Well, that would assume I'm actually going to
eat black pudding. So Right. And which is
which is not you know, we don't have
to go to Africa to see this. I
mean, this is a this is a fairly
staple dish
in
in, you know, in England and Scotland. Right?
Pudding, which for the listeners, is basically congealed
blood, you know, and prepared in a sort
of a taste
So to answer your question, just logistically,
the difference is it's congealed.
And cooked. As opposed to being warm and
and runny. Right. Is anyone still listening to
us?
And tell me about haggis. Tell me about
haggis. I've had it. I've been in, you
know, I've been part of a ceremony,
and I know people like it. And, you
know Well Mhmm. Torin, you've had haggis. I
have. It's delicious. Okay. And and do you
remember what was in it? Did you know
what was in it when you ate it?
Yeah. Stomach stomach
beef stuff. It was it was good. It
was tasty, whatever it really was. Okay. It's
spicy up and and it's and it's inside
the stomach, right, of the Right. Mhmm. They
give it a in the stomach lining. Yep.
And you go in there to Which is
kind of like what It was good. I
remember growing up, part of the part of
the the the food from Eastern Europe that
we had, again, a ceremonial food Right. Was
kishka, which was stuffed intestine. Yeah. Oh, man.
Yeah. Yeah. Now what's surprising now, it it
it that's the whole concept of now now
here's a very basic cultural aspect that that
even I can talk to.
It's it's the old don't judge a book
by its cover type of thing. Because if
you're saying if Torrid is saying that there
is there is this thing, which I'm imagining
doesn't look all that great,
but when you eat it, you like the
taste of it.
Now if that's true, then your first reaction,
you would assume. Also, you know where it
came from. Your first reaction is, seriously?
I'm supposed to eat this?
And yet you eat it and then go,
oh, this tastes good. If you can do
that, but people can't necessarily get by what
they see. Or don't ask, you know, and
that raises a question that I'm often asked,
which is, should I ask about this food
that's being presented to me? Sure. You know,
do do I do I want to inquire?
Yeah. And, you know, I think the safe
thing is if you're ready to hear things
that you don't really wanna hear. Wanna hear,
then don't inquire. And if you're enjoying the
taste, then don't ask. You know? But but
if you do wanna know, get ready for
any possibility
because that meat could be of any kind
of animal. Sure. You know? And but, you
know, raises the issue that, you know, non
meat eaters. Right? They'll they'll feel similarly
turned off by any kind of meat that's
presented. And so it's it's all relative, isn't
it? And it's all basically what we're used
to. What you're mentioning, it sounds like many
of my relatives. That's for sure.
Okay. That just
completely killed everything.
Wait a minute. Your That was the haggis
of jokes. Right? Cannibalistic.
Are you talking about your relative? Said it's
all relative, and I went for the cheap
relative joke.
And then you decided to throw me under
the box. I was so mad eating meat.
So
it sounded like you were saying Well, look.
You're relatives. Own. Okay. And I guess if
it's relative, it is your own.
So it's Are they eating each other? Are
they is it but even cannibalism Where are
you going with this? I'm really frightened. In
Papua New Guinea. And
And in other
in other places, not just Papua New Guinea.
Cannibalism is part of in certain tribes. Not
not all right. Is it that it can
be in much of Polynesia, actually, traditionally.
But but it's a tradition. But it's about
taking in the qualities
of the individual that you're eating Uh-huh.
Or one aspect of So you're saying it's
being looked at. It is almost a an
honor to do that. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Interesting.
But like those hooded, you know, the hoods
you have to wear in southern France when
you eat that particular bird that they serve
you.
This isn't gonna go to a dark place
here, is it? Oh, yes. It's very dark
on the hood. Under the hood. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
The whole idea is to absorb the aroma
of the preparation of this this dish Yes.
That's made with this very particular kind of
bird. Yes. Lives in that area. It's a
very small, delicate bird, and it's a delicacy.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. And then
and then you take the hood off and
you and you eat it, but you first,
you absorb the the whole
aroma
using the sense of smell, which is very
powerful. You know? So
I don't
as a cultural In many of the Andean
cultures, there's the staple food is basically their
version of a guinea pig. It's called Cui
in Ecuador. I've heard that. Yeah. Okay.
Which is you know, I I think a
lot of US Americans have grown up with
hamsters as pets Right. Would find that objectionable.
I'm sure they would. Well, there's also the
concept of eating dogs
Yes. Which is done in some in some
cultures. Yes. Right. Yes. And we've talked about
the fact that It's not as is not
as not that common, and it's not as
ubiquitous as as the urban legend of it
is. But it does. Yes. It's part of
it. It does. It is part of the
diet. But also there is as we've as
we've spoken of before, there's also places that
domesticated animals aren't the same. It's not like
the dog and cat in the United States
that is that is kept indoors and loved
like another member of the family.
That's in
in in many countries, that's just not taking
place. It doesn't happen that way. You know,
it's what what I'm thinking right now is
is that all this eating talk has really
made me hungry.
So,
so we're gonna take a little break here.
But when we come back
when we come back, I want to, I
I got a question for you about something
that's coming up that I think kinda fits
into all of
this. And I think it's a Torrence, it's
a question from, one of our listeners. Right?
Yes. It is. Okay. Well, then we'll we'll
do that after we come back. But for
right now,
we're gonna get something to eat and take
a little break. We'll be right
Got any questions for us? Well, if you
do, there's a couple ways to get hold
of us. First of all, on email, our
email address is oops culture show at gmail.com.
And our handle on Twitter is
oops culture show. Pretty clever.
So talk to us.
Alright. So we're back, and we are talking
about foods, and and we've got something coming
at the time that we're recording this particular
podcast.
Coming up is the time of Ramadan,
and that's one of the times that, like,
in many, many parts of the world, in
different different ways,
there is a a time of fasting. Oh,
so we're talking about not eating. Right. And
that's where we're going with this. So, Toren,
there was a question.
I'm turning to you because I'm assuming you
have the question.
I do. Yeah.
So the question is that,
somebody's traveling to, the the person who who
who gave us the question.
They're gonna be traveling to the Middle East
during Ramadan,
and they're gonna be doing,
some business with folks there and, you know,
presumably,
during kind of, you know, normal for them,
for that person, kinda lunchtime.
And so the question was essentially they're wondering,
you know, because their their hosts there are
are not going to be eating. They're gonna
be fasting, not gonna be eating, not gonna
be drinking water for Ramadan.
They're wondering what they should do. Should is
it okay if they
eat something during their, you know, normal lunchtime?
Is it okay for them to drink water?
They mentioned I remember in the question, they
were saying, I really need to drink my
water. I don't wanna be dehydrated. So their
question is essentially, what do what do I
do in that circumstance? Yeah. That's a that's
a good question. But you know what? I
have a question first about this person.
What are you doing going to do business
during Ramadan in the Middle East? Yeah. I
don't think they I think it was just
planned for them. I don't think they had
control or Well, whoever was whoever was scheduling
things needs to get a little bit culturally
tuned up. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm I'm gonna jump
in and say that people don't necessarily even
if they are aware of Ramadan, don't necessarily
know that Ramadan
isn't the same every year too, but it
changes. Right. You have to follow the Muslim
calendar because it does change. That's the lunar
calendar, and so, therefore, it's gonna come up
on the on the solar calendar, our calendar,
at a different time every year. But it's
not a good time to be doing business
in
a in a in a Muslim country, particularly
an observant Muslim country,
such as many are in the in the
Middle East.
People are just not tuned into
those
colleagues who are observant tuned into
business because you're supposed to be
self reflective. This is a time of spirituality.
This is the time from from sun up
to sun down where you're thinking about your
role in with God and the cosmos and
and and other people. You're not tuned in.
And, also, it's a blood sugar thing. You're
fasting from sun up to sundown.
And so
if you're trying to do business with people
who are getting a little low on their
blood sugar,
it's just not pleasant. You know? People wanna
go home and break the fast. That's what
they're they wanna talk to you about business.
Okay. Having said that,
this person is obviously going nevertheless,
And they are gonna be there during the
day
while their colleagues are probably going to be
fasting. Alright. So the the the rule is
you certainly, as a nonobservant
or non Muslim, do not have to fast.
You can go back to your international hotel
and have lunch and
and and dinner and breakfast.
But if you're with people who are observing
Ramadan,
you cannot
drink
and eat in front of them. You just
can't. It's not it's not the right thing
to do. It's disrespectful.
Now I I don't know what country they're
going to. So there are many countries there,
in that region that are very observant. Right?
I'm thinking
of Saudi Arabia. But then there are many
that are very secular, and they know that
non Muslims
might not be observing. So if you I
would take my cue from them. If they
they invite you in, they sit you down
and put a glass of water in front
of you and they don't have a glass
of water in front of them.
They're trying to be kind to you.
I would probably not sip it in front
of them. Mhmm. But if you needed to,
there it is. And and they're making a
very nice and generous gesture by offering it
to you. I mean, maybe they'll even wanna
meet you at a restaurant. I I I
can't predict that. But, again, it depends on
the country.
But I would say, generally, stay away from
eating and drinking in front of anyone who's
observing Ramadan. It's So probably this this listener
should, make
in their mind should be ready to to
behave in that fashion. That's right. Because after
sundown, though, there is a a celebratory,
meal. Everybody wants to go home as quickly
as possible to meet their family and friends
to break the fast. Right. So,
yes. And in fact, everyone oftentimes
stays up late at night
feasting with friends and family.
I've I've I've had Muslim colleagues, you know,
admit to me that, Ramadan,
you don't lose weight. You gain weight because
you stay up, you know, all night long
party partying, beat a lot, and then go
to sleep. Yeah. And then go to sleep
and then, wake up before sun up to
have a big breakfast Sure. To get you
through the day. In order to be able
to make it. Right. Yeah. So I don't
know. Maybe they're actually putting on more calories
than than not. Maybe. Yeah. But it's the
timing of it that's important. Right. So if
you're if you can't be eating or drinking
during the day, then
you gotta do it,
at your hotel.
You can't do it out
with your colleagues.
Right. Okay.
Alright. Good. I think too,
I would imagine anyway that someone who's traveling
there for a relatively brief period of time
could could potentially make the adjustment knowing this
is a for that brief period of time.
But somebody's going for a period of time.
I'm saying that I'm guessing
a couple of weeks
might really have to consider what they're doing
because it's not they're not used to it.
Right. And and Ramadan is typically, you know,
approximately a month long Mhmm. Again, depending on
how the calendar falls.
So that's a long period of time where
people are are are deeply into this very
special
event. Mhmm. I mean, it's a major major,
if not the major holiday in in the
Muslim calendar. So Sure.
Yeah. Not a good time to be doing
business there, but okay.
Well, it may not be something that they
could put off. So Right. Right. Understandable
in that sense. But,
okay. Good. That's a
and and we remind you too,
anything like that or that you may have
a question about, send him on in, and
we will, you know, we'll ask Dean,
and he'll give you something. And if you
trust trust him at all, go ahead and
follow him. Personally, I'd be very wary.
We'll just make you sign a disclaimer. That's
all.
Oh, yes. By the way, we are not
responsible for anything that happens to you. No.
I'm certainly not responsible for anything I say.
You've never been responsible for anything. That's for
sure. And ever since I've known you,
which is the year 4, wasn't it, I
believe? Yeah. That's in the in the Christian
calendar. Yeah.
So, anyhow,
we've got, there is the phrase. So so
talking about Oh, that's okay. Interrupt. It's not
a problem. Was I interrupting? No. I I
don't mean to. You didn't mean to interrupt.
I haven't heard that before somewhere. No. But
you did me never mind. Go right ahead.
Please
continue.
No. No. Okay. Good. I'll I'll continue.
No. No. What were you going to say?
Was that what you were going to say?
I was gonna say what were you going
to say. Yes. Well, in that case Who's
on her? Right. So so in that case,
here's what I was gonna say. Oh, okay.
I was gonna interrupt you with what I
was going to say. Are you I well
You didn't have to ask. That seemed obvious,
perhaps.
Have you said what you're going to say?
What was I going to say? I don't
know.
I have no idea.
I just returned from a trip to,
to the Balkans. Are you sure where you
know where you went? I always have to
think twice
because there's a lot of trips in there.
Former Yugoslavia,
but broken up now into many independent countries.
And and names that depending again on age
and or interest in history have have been
spoken about
many times. There's a real chance that you've
heard the names of the places. Oh, this
is very important. This is a major cultural
area in the world. It sits on a
major cultural fault line,
which is the cause of tremendous
historical conflict. And and much of what we
live with every day in terms of political
reality
is the result of the kinds of conflicts
that have emerged in in the Balkans. Okay.
It it's important to remember, for example, the
capital of Bosnia, and Bosnia is one of
these countries in that region, is Sarajevo.
Yes. And Sarajevo, the 20th century began in
Sarajevo. Mhmm. Right. But the
in a sense, the beginning of World War
1 and the 1, the assassination
of the archduke,
which was just, of course, a a trigger.
There were many factors, but factors. Right? Yeah.
Began and it ended there in the 19
nineties with the with the wars, the Yugoslav
wars
most recently. Right. And the terrible, terrible conflict
in Sarajevo.
Right.
So this is a major area
that that doesn't get much, play in
in the US, but nevertheless,
we still have troops on the ground there.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure people don't re other
than people who have been in the armed
services who'd be aware of that, but otherwise.
So I'm traveling. We don't know that. The
beautiful, beautiful country of Bosnia, Herzegovina. Mhmm. And
it is physically
just spectacular.
Big mountains and
and clean running rivers. It's just a beautiful
place.
And I learned that one of the foods
that that people have is typical food is
like these sausages.
Yeah.
A mound of them little finger sized sausages
of meat, of minced meat. And and this
is something that you typically have for lunch
and you wash it down with a liquefied
yogurt.
Really? Yeah. Okay. So I was first of
all, I'm not
a red meat eater. So it was but
I but I was gonna be there, and
I was gonna try it. I was gonna
say, what kind of meat are they? Well,
it's it's not pork because
there's a significant Muslim population in Bosnia. Okay.
So it's it's mainly
beef and and
and chicken and,
lamb, of course. Yeah. That was the main
one, actually.
And and it's spiced, and it's very tasty.
And it's often served with this different kinds
of dressing,
IVAR, which is kind of a pimento kind
of dressing. So that's very tasty. But when
it was served with this liquefied
yogurt,
I had trouble with that.
You had trouble with it because of the
liquefied yogurt? Yeah. Do you think flavor was
very tart for me. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't
used to it. Right. I mean, people were
eating it with gusto all around me, but
I was having difficulty with it. When they're
giving that to you, are are these separate
things, or are these already somehow put together?
No. You get a plate full of these
sausage type things. Right. And
and then you get Which I'm guessing look
like what we would identify as, like, little
wieners. Yeah. But without the casing, it's just
Yeah. Just shaped into into a little
little wiener size thing. Okay. And then you
get a glass of yogurt with it
I gotcha. Okay. To drink. It's a it's
just a regular in a drink form. Mhmm.
Yes. Yeah. Okay. And And you couldn't, do
the drink.
But, I mean, is that are we talking
just was there something about it that popped
up? First of all, I don't really even
like milk. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So Okay. So
you're a freak. So we, we just we
go with that. I stopped drinking milk when
I was 10 years old Okay. Until I
I drank it. See, it was wrong. I'm
super freaked. I I drank it as long
as I had to. Okay. As long as
mom said drink it. What did you use
for a mustache on your upper lip? Oh,
no. I didn't have to have it. I
just Oh, is that at 10? Oh, yes.
At 10. Oh, oh. What a man. Supposed
to tell. What a man. Oh, wow.
Yeah. Yeah. We're laughing because we can see
him.
You should be laughing because the truth is
I can't grow a beard, really. Uh-huh. I
mean, it doesn't come in full. Uh-huh. I
get little spots. You know? I get a
little spot that that grows well, and then
the rest doesn't. And it looks like I
have the strange shape. Turning into a medical
podcast, and I'm already disgusted.
I'm I'm I'm not gonna be able to
keep food down here in a minute
when,
well, I'm sorry about that. It's it's,
About what? The the mustache or Yeah. About
your inability to to grow bigger. The yogurt.
And because, obviously, it it it reflects on
your manhood.
Yeah. We
but you could bite the head off of
a fish. Oh, absolutely. See? So there you
go. And drink the blood from a cow.
Well, let's let's go get a cow and
tap it right now.
And how brave was the first person to
eat an oyster?
Yeah. That's a good point. Yes. I mean,
the the that's an old saying, by the
way. I didn't come up with that. Is
that right? True. Well, I grew up on
the shore here in New England,
and I don't ever remember hearing someone say
how brave was the first man to eat
an oyster. No. There's a lullaby.
Oh, is there? That all New England children
are
lullaby too. I don't That has I know
one that wasn't.
I'm feeling bad.
I'm sure. Are you sure?
I'm pretty sure. You know the little lullaby
that went? Oh, you're gonna you're gonna give
us a lullaby now,
which which is fine. You're perfectly capable of
singing. I'm not concerned about that. I'm just
are we going to have to pay? This
is what this is. This is about foods
and and the and what to do at
the table. What okay. What lullaby is this?
Do do you really have a lullaby here,
or are we,
going down the road fantastique? Let let me
go on here. Okay.
How do you refuse something if it's presented
to you and you don't you don't want
it? How do you?
I think
if you know ahead of time and I
think if if you do your research and
you should do your research, if you know
ahead of time
the kinds of food that might be presented
to you,
then you can inform your your your host
that ahead of time
that this is something that is not part
of your diet
or
you're not eating meat these days or you're
not drinking alcohol these days, whatever it is.
Right. And so everybody's face is saved. Everyone
is spared the embarrassment of you not eating
something
that's served to you and you're spared having
to to deal with that challenge.
So if you can say something ahead of
time based on what you might know,
it's possibly
going to be served, then making it even
easier. Yeah. For them not to but if
you do it in that situation, then you're
saying most likely you will not insult your
host if you if you mention something about
your own
circumstances, that you're there's a reason that you're
doing it. The only thing I would say
is you better remember what you have said
at that point. You don't wanna later on
undermine yourself by doing something that would,
that you just said you couldn't do because
of fill in the blank. Yeah. Right.
Or at that point, you're I guess you'd
be compelled to try it. Right. And Right.
That's the worst that can happen. So
Yeah. You know, if something doesn't look good,
then just move it around on your plate
and until so you find something that does
look good. Sure. Let's
take a break.
While listening to this, you may think,
hey. You know, I wonder well, if you
have a question like that and wanna ask
us, there's a couple ways you can do
it. One would be through email, which is
oops culture show atgmail.com.
That's o0pscultureshow@gmail.com.
And then there's also our handle on Twitter,
which is oops culture show.
That's
o o p s culture show.
I know. I know. It's not original, but
but it works. Okay?
There are some myths that we have to
explode.
Wow. That myth Woah.
The myths of, you know, of how you're
supposed to behave because there's lots of things
we were discussing about
unusual behaviors at the table, like putting the
hood over your head when you're eating these
birds from France and things like that. But
but also, let's let's explode some, you know,
go right ahead. Let's blow a few things
up in France. Let's go for it. I'm
a everyone thinks that the formal French meal
is very fussy and you have to do
things
and you can't eat with your hands. Nonsense.
Uh-huh.
You have to eat asparagus with your fingers.
It's probably one of the few foods in
France in a traditional French meal that you
can and should eat with your with your
fingers. You pick up the asparagus. Now when
you say you can eat them with your
fingers, I'm assuming you to a knife and
fork. Right. Okay. And you're meaning to pick
them up with your fingers and eat them
as opposed to eating both the asparagus and
your fingers. Well,
no. The the only way you can eat
your fingers is by eating without a knife
and fork. Or if or if you're in
Vienna. I guess you could eat them with
a knife and fork, but then
thank you. Thank you, Taryn. Are we going
back to the discussion was a little too
high. A cannibalism. Flying over the roof of
the of the building.
We, when
well, we've gone from sausages to fingers. I
think that's a logical progression. Not a big
leap. It's it's well,
look at your own fingers over there. I'm,
I'm So you can pick up, You should
pick up the asparagus spews and eat it.
Okay. So you're eating asparagus with your fingers
in France too. Oh, yeah. That makes sense.
There's a lot of pretension
around many of these traditions that that this
is the part that I'd like to explode.
Perceived like if you go to Italy and
you have to eat your pizza with a
knife and fork. Nonsense. Well,
really? I didn't know. Yeah. No. I mean,
it depends on the size of the pizza
and depends on the kind of preparation that
the pasta is is. Right. But
there are some places you would, but there
are many places you would not. You would
you would eat it
the way you would expect to eat it,
like in New York. I mean, you you
get a slice of pizza from the Sicilian
pizzeria, which is about as authentic as you
can get Right. Down the street. And, you
know, you're you're eating it, without a knife
and fork. And and then I hope so.
But then you can walk into some restaurants
in America where they serve you a pizza,
and they give you knives and forks and,
like, nobody else is eating it that way.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's Chicago,
though, the deep dish pie. Like, that's that's
already
a a pasta in a class by itself.
Well, it's not it's it's it's it's a
it's a pizza that has morphed into something
else. I think our and and I think
our we may see our our our Northeastern,
United States regionalism
start to,
start to show about that. Oh, no. The
Chicago deep dish pizza is fantastic.
Okay. It's just nothing like a traditional slice
of pizza. No. It's not. So you of
course, you have to eat it differently because
it's it it is just a whole other
thing. Right. But that the pasta thing, like,
here's another pretension. Explode.
Oh, hold on. Hold on.
Now there's explosions going off. Pretension number 3,
explode.
You get a bowl of of pasta, and
Uh-huh. You're you're supposed people think they're supposed
to twirl. I'm sorry. Did you say bowl
of pasta? I'm having a little trouble hearing
you. My my ear is still ringing from
the explosion.
So
And you think you're supposed to twirl it
against the inside of a spoon. So you're
talking like spaghetti pasta? But yeah. Yeah. I'm
sorry. Like, we need fettuccine spaghetti. Right. Right.
The long noodle type. Right. And you're supposed
to twirl it against your spoon? Yeah. Yeah.
Nobody does that in Italy. Well, okay. Twirl
it against the inside of the bowl that
it's served in. Well, that makes perfect sense.
Well, you see of
then why did it evolve into twirling against
the inside of a spoon? Well, I'm going
to guess that it there because in the
US,
you'd oftentimes, you get spaghetti served on a
flat plate,
which makes it much more difficult to twirl
than if it was in a bowl where
you have that rounded edge. Well, that makes
sense, which makes the question and it begs
the question, why was it served on a
flat plate? And the answer is?
Torin, could you look that up?
Sure.
Yeah. There was an Italian diplomat who was,
stationed in New York. Yes.
And he was stunned. He was
he actually wrote it on purpose. Someone stunned
him.
Well, it's a diplomatic thing to do. Depends
on the location in New York City. It's
possible. Yeah. It could happen. But he wrote
a note back
home saying, I can't believe that in America.
He was in New York, though. But he
said, well,
it's in America. Okay. Go ahead.
They they put lemon peel
in their espresso.
Oh.
And that's because
this particular fellow was from Milan.
Uh-huh. Northern Italy. Right. But the culture in
New York City, the Italian culture in New
York City is from Southern Italian immigrants
primarily.
Right. And Southern Italian immigrants, Sicily, Calabria. Okay.
You have lemon trees.
Mhmm. And so it's a nice touch to
add us a piece of lemon peel to
your espresso. Right. So you're talking we're talking
little Italy, little Italy, which in Milan, we
don't do. Right. You don't get espresso with
lemon peel.
I don't even know if there are yes.
There are lemon trees around Milan. But but
this but certainly, it wasn't the tradition. And
he was stunned. He said, what kind of
what kind of Italian tradition is this?
He didn't know that in the southern part
of his own country,
that's how they served espresso, and that's how
it was being served in New York. Sure.
So for him, it was kind of strange
and maybe pretentious.
Right. But, you know,
we still enjoy our Well, you know, I
mean, way things are served throughout our country.
Obviously, our country is much larger than Italy,
but it's throughout our country. You'll find certain
dishes. What we were talking about, deep dish
pizza as opposed to
the the the pizza that we have in
the in the northeast,
and so forth. That there's they just serve
different ways. And here's the question. So you're
holding your pizza
slice of pizza? You're holding your pizza. And
as long as I'm holding my pizza and
not your pizza.
Okay.
The question We're talking about eating with our
fingers again here. Now reading it with our
fingers. Yeah. Not not not a knife and
a fork. Okay.
Certain politicians have I've really heard about it
here. Now still the question comes up. Do
we fold it
or do we about the pizza now? The
pizza slice of pizza. Do we fold it?
Yeah. Like the sides, like you would make
a a paper airplane?
Well, I I don't think you wanna make
a a pizza airplane out of it. Well,
some people fold it. Well, yeah. And I
think folding is is an acceptable way to
handle
usually, if there's if it's in danger of
sliding off
what's on top of it, the oils,
the cheese, things like that, that's in danger
of sliding off, then the fold, which goes
lengthwise
from the wide end to the narrow end,
is is the appropriate way to do it.
What if you ate it the other what
if you folded it the other way around?
And people have. I've seen people fold it
the other way, and usually they become a
mess. Yeah. It just kinda all runs out
the sides because that's doesn't make any sense.
And that's why we don't fold it that
way.
You know, like like a lot of like
Ethiopian bread, I'm thinking it's making me think
of that. Okay.
You said it's this big round
tray. Yeah. And it's and it's made to
serve the entire table. Okay. And depending on
where
you sit,
you're supposed to break off a piece of
the bread and dip it into the sauces
and the meats and all the other things
and pop it in your mouth. Right.
And it raises the rule. And this is
not pretentious, by the way. This is a
rule. I mean, it's practical.
You, whenever you're served communally like that, whether
it's a big
tray of of one particular item or many
different items,
you only eat from the side that's in
front of you.
Don't reach over to another side,
because that side is for the person on
that side. Right. Right.
And it just gets kind of messy
in to to be eating other than just
the area that's right in front of you.
But a lot of people, you know, if
you go to Ethiopia or you go to
places in India where we're eating with our
basically, communally like that, with our hands and
and and communally serve food,
they're reaching all over the place.
You know? First of all, the food isn't
any different in front of somebody else as
it is in front of you. No. Isn't
it, though? Yeah. Isn't it? No. It's not.
Come on. You always got that little bit
better thing that I did.
The if
that's if that's the case, it's because they're
honoring you by giving you the the scarcest
and choicest things.
Okay. So what you're getting is still probably
the better parts of the agency.
Probably shouldn't reach over and grab that from
someone who got it served to them by
the host.
It just seems really I'm just guessing on
that one. But, you know It's worth mentioning.
Yeah. I well yeah. And I did. Don't.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's
And in the Middle East and in India
and the place that we're talking about eating
with our hands here, you eat with your
hand.
Just one hand. The right hand. The correct
hand, which is the
The right hand. Keep your left hand in
your lap. Okay.
Just leave it in your lap. And there's
and that follows
more than tradition.
Which means you're breaking the bread,
you know, with your right hand. You're kind
of, like, tearing it.
Yep. Yep. And it's a little bit of
a trick to do. So you're saying you're
it's you're a one handed hand eater? Yes.
A one handed hand. Didn't they have a
song about that in the 50s?
Using one hand eater.
Yeah. Because otherwise, we're eating hands the way
I said it before again. And You keep
going back to that. I mean, maybe you
know something about a culture where Well, there
are there could be. You know? I mean,
you might don't like you said before, just
don't ask.
You know? Because if you like what it
tastes like, who cares? When yes. Sorry. Go
ahead. Just the right hand. And you're eating
with that hand, the right hand. Right. Which
can be a little bit of a trick
because if you break pieces Right. Bread, you
know, you gotta, like, do it with your
between your thumb and your finger and kind
of tear it. There's a talent to it.
You just get used to it. That's all.
Right. And your hands are gonna get a
lot of talent. What you're doing is you
break the bread, then you dip it in
the sauce, and then you pick up a
cube of
of lamb, let's say, or some veggies Mhmm.
And you pop the whole business in your
mouth. Yes. So the sauce is running down
your fingers. Are we primarily back in the
Middle East right now? We're in the Middle
East. Yeah. This is a traditional way of
eating,
let's say, at a at a Arab feast.
Okay. I
don't wanna be that general. A Bedouin feast.
Alright.
Okay.
Certainly in India and South Asia Yep. The
traditional Indian meal is eaten with the right
hand Mhmm. With the hands. You'd not serve
cutlery. There's no knives or forks or anything.
Right? In Southeast Asia, you can get your
food served on a big banana leaf, not
even a plate. Mhmm. So you just get
a big fresh banana leaf
put right in front of you. Yep. And
then the food, the rice will be a
little mound of rice and then some some
of the meat, some of the veggies, some
of the sauces. I mean, in those areas,
bananas
banana leaves grow on trees. Yes. You know?
I I think they grow on trees just
about everywhere. Do they? Yes. And in Southeast
Asia, they're called banana leaf restaurants, actually. So
it's an indication, First of all, you might
be getting, it might be Muslim. Right? And
Okay. And then it might also be you're
gonna get food served this way. Mhmm. It's
not even on a plate. Mhmm. It's not
even with knives and forks. Okay. Your hands
are gonna get messy.
That's okay. There's usually a a sink,
in the corner of the dining room where
you can go and wash off your hands
whenever We're in Southeast Asia now. Yes. Yeah.
Malaysia. I see. We're really bouncing around the
world today.
Stay with me. Pack your keep your bags
packed. I'm ready. Alright.
Singapore,
certain parts of Singapore, not the Chinese part
of Singapore, but the
the the the Malaysian
part of Singapore.
Yes. So,
you know Well, that's kind of inter I
mean, when you really think about that with
the the whole concept of,
you know, recycling, you know, that goes around,
a banana plate, a planted leaf plate
is is perfect. It's perfect. And when it's
when you're all done, they just fold up
the mess and throw it out. And it
becomes fertilizer. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.
So I have no idea how we got
you. And you can lick your fingers because
you got delicious Uh-huh. Rice and sauce and
all sorts of things on there. Right. And
it's fine. You know, some people might be
thinking,
why can they do they only use the
right hand? And always only on the right
hand. Because
in these cultures
let's see if we can do this with
Yeah. You do that. We'll be we'll be
back. We'll we're gonna go get something to
eat while you figure this out. Before the
advent of modern plumbing
Uh-huh.
And modern toilet conveniences.
Yes.
The left hand is the hand that's traditionally
used for personal hygiene. Okay. All right. So
and still today, you can walk into a
bathroom
and is basically
there's no toilet paper, but there may be
a bucket of water or or a
hose hose, you know, and you just wash
off
and use your left hand
and wash yourself off that way. Right? So
you don't wanna then go back to the
table and use your left hand to eat
with or
pass food with or and, traditionally, it's become
you don't pass important documents with your left
hand. Or shake hand or anything like that.
That's right. Yes. That's right. Okay.
Which may be hard to,
you know, remember when you sit down to
just sit on your left hand. Don't put
your left hand on the table. Don't don't
use it. Yes. Right. Don't coordinate it in.
And that that yeah. That's a distinct difference
between,
Western civilizations
primarily
and and the other areas of the world
that are are influenced by that. I mean,
it and I I would think that's gotta
be really, really important to remember
when when you're involved in that area to
to not do it. Because the other way
around
is there is no there's no real impact.
If you just ate with your right hand
coming here, someone might wonder why you didn't
use your left hand.
Maybe.
But mostly, it wouldn't have any real impact.
Right. Right. But the other way around would
have could have significant impact. I mean, it's
a general rule, right, that it does bend.
Like, if your colleague
reaches over to give you an embrace Mhmm.
With 2 hands.
Well, okay. Then then you can reciprocate with
2 hands. Mhmm. Right. But generally, in the
course of a day, you avoid using the
left hand for important
important exchanges. Sure. Okay. Okay.
And certainly
at the dining table. Well well done because,
you you know, we all have the the
reputation
for when we start getting into, like, toilet
talk, or or lack of toilet talk,
or lack of toilet. The,
Talking about lack of toilet. Yes.
That that we can
I was going to say really jump down
a hole with that, but that's probably a
bad bad choice?
Or did I just do that? I might
have. Yeah.
Sorry. I you know, it's my role. That's
what I do here.
It's probably time to take one last break.
Okay. Listen. The way to get hold of
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Thank you.
But here's the other thing I wanted to
mention. Yeah. Eating with the fingers. Yes. Right?
Also a Hawaiian tradition
with poi.
Because what's poi? Poi is that
that's the other rhyme I was looking for
when we were talking about
the Japanese toilet and the koi
toy. Oh, the toy. Oh, yes. Poi. We're
going back to episode 1 now.
It's
it's it's If you haven't heard episode 1,
by the way, do yourself a favor. Go
and listen to episodes. It's called Poi Boy.
Poi Boy.
It would be a
poi poi poi. Is what it would be.
And disgusting. I'm sorry if if anybody out
there likes poi. I mean, I like poi
too. You've now alienated the entire
poi poi
But but population.
But not in a in a sandwich. You
know? And
Why don't why can we get a You
know, see, you're jumping to conclusions. We've been
here. We we could have You could not
read a book by its cover or judge
a book by its cover. Hang on. We
could have a poi poi. Don't read a
book by its cover. It'll be much too
short. And you were talking about Much too
short. You were talking
about about fish.
And
a koi is a fish. A koi is
a fish. It's a cod, isn't it? No.
No. Koi is no. Koi is a is
more like a goldfish. Goldfish. It's one of
these big bulbous goldfish. Are you looking for
lips again here?
You you have a situation you need to
talk to somebody about, I believe. We could
have we could have a poi,
koi,
sandwich.
Yes. We could.
And the server is a The poi, koi,
poi?
Right. The poi, koi, boy, poi. Go ahead
and say that to recapture that. Yeah.
No. No. It's not. I speaking of lips,
I just threw mine out right there.
How do you put an ace bandage on
your lip? You don't. You have to put
it into the cast. Oh,
well,
yes. Koi is like a goldfish. We would
look at it and go, oh, that must
be a goldfish, but it's really a little
different. But you see them a lot in
decorative pools that are outside.
Thanks. Thanks.
That was the opposite of an explosion. I
believe it was an implosion,
and
it's it's now a black hole that's sucking
in everything around it.
So
Here's another Here he comes.
Are you blowing something else up? Yes. Okay.
What did I call those things that we've
been blowing up? I have no idea.
Pretensions.
Oh, okay. Pretensions.
Oh. Which is often what people do when
they don't know the rules. So they think
they're going to have to be
super proper in what and whatever that means
to them Right. In order to do it
right. And so here's another pretension,
right? In Japan, yes, you walk into a
noodle shop, okay? And
everyone
in Tokyo is having lunch at a noodle
shop or, you know, people. Right. It's very
common. You open the door and you walk
in, and all you hear is slurping.
Right? There was a slurp in their noodles,
and it's making that.
And didn't your mother always tell you in
the West, you know, yeah, chew with your
mouth closed. Don't make noise like that. And
that's a really rude
to slurp when you're eat
drinking soup. Soup. Eating soup, drinking soup. That's
right. So noodles are often served in a
broth. It's kind of like a soup. Very
much so. Like, chicken noodle soup would be
something we'd be familiar. Unaware Westerner would walk
into a noodle shop in Tokyo and be
done. Slurp fest. It's a slurp fest. Right?
And, yeah, you slurp. Of course. First of
all, it cools it down. Uh-huh. You may
be you may be eating it hot, but
there's also cold noodle dishes that Or it
could be that the kois are all sucking
up the water that they're in. So you
gotta eat it fast before they do. Go
get it. Yeah. You bet.
It was it was explained to me quite
earnestly that actually it tastes better when you
suck air through Uh-huh. As you eat it,
as the noodles enter your mouth. It just
helps the flavor.
Interesting.
And and in fact, so does wine when
you taste it when you're tasting it. You
sip it and initially and bring it in
with some air, it will exaggerate the, flavors.
That's like a that's a wine slurp, isn't
it? That's a wine slurp. Mhmm. By the
way, Ernest Lee, wasn't wasn't he a senator
from Louisiana?
Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. He was, actually. And and
his cousin
Go ahead. It's all yours.
That's gonna be cut. Right? Oh, no. Oh,
no.
Oh, no. We've got people writing in asking
me to set you up like that. Really.
Well,
I think, you know, we've covered a lot
of lot of ground, and I think that,
it's time to get out of here. It's
still,
oops.
Your culture's showing. You know, we've been infatuated
with food.
The last podcast and this podcast Everyone's infatuated.
If I may be. It's basic to life.
Well, it's It's sort of like It's one
of life's great pleasures. It is. The Chinese
say, you know, that it is the it
is the first great pleasure. Do they? Mhmm.
Okay.
Dean Foster, the,
the person who knows more about cultures in
the world than anyone else out there, at
least that's what he tells us,
and and who's been exploding
all day today.
I only say that because my publisher tells
me that. Is that right? Yes. Well, that's
good for them.
Probably that's in the their best interest, but
okay.
And and that exploding thing,
I'm thinking it's something you ate, which goes
right along with the, with the what we're
talking about here today.
Look, your culture's still showing and that's what's
going on. And you gotta do something about
that. That's right. And thank you very much
for that. And and and I'm still Tom
Peterson and we Torrin, are you still here?
I'm still here. Okay.
Torren's still here, and and we're heading on
our way out of here for this one.
So, oops. Your culture's showing. Thank you.
Smell you.
Just wanna bother you one last time to
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Oops Your Culture Showing,
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