Today, we're talking turkey.
Right? I think that's what we had decided
to talk about. Oh, okay. Alright.
Alright. The the Why are we talking turkey?
The country. The country. Country.
Not okay. The phrase.
Well, we wouldn't talk about the phrase in
this
podcast.
This podcast is
oops.
Your culture's showing.
I'm Dean Foster, and we talk about culture
in the show all the time because that's
the work that I've done for thirty five
years.
And I'm Tom Peterson, and somehow I come
on this thing and and encourage you to
talk about it. Well, because we had fun
doing it. That's why. Oh. That's true.
See, we're now we're talk we're talking turkey.
Now we're Now we're talking turkey.
And I'm torn Wait a minute.
What do you mean we're talking turkey? What
do you mean by that? I don't know.
Oh, the country you said. Right? Is that
what we're doing, or are we talking something
else? Well, we could talk turkey,
but we don't have to talk turkey.
We could talk something else.
Okay.
Alright. Well, I'm gonna go get something to
eat. And,
Alright. Well, that was a good podcast. We're
wrapping it up. Yeah. That was great.
One of our better ones, actually, I think.
Real tight. Brevity is the soul of it.
You know? So
let's let's talk let's talk the country. Because,
Dean, I think you and,
and your wife, Cheryl,
you both, went on an expedition to Turkey
fairly recently. Did you not? And I I
have heard little to nothing about it, so
I'm very curious to know more. Yeah. One
of the weird things about it,
for me was I was if I would
tell somebody we were going to Turkey
Mhmm.
One of the first things my American friends
would say is,
oh, why are you going to Turkey?
Like, it wasn't supposed to be a place
you you either go to or it's dangerous
and you really wanna go there.
And I started to get this weird feeling
like, where did all this come from? I
never felt that way about the place, and
I'm usually pretty plugged in.
So if I've
if I hear that a place is dangerous
or
there's some reasons why I shouldn't be visiting,
I kinda know about it. But this attitude
that I was getting from a lot of
people
really, really surprised me,
because either I was really not plugged in
and not hearing what they were
hearing or something was going on in the
air
that were that was spooking people about
traveling to Turkey.
And,
you know, I I found myself having to,
like, say,
well, no. It's there's nothing dangerous about it,
not anymore or less than a lot of
other places I can think of.
And I'm a pretty adventurous guy, so maybe
for me, going here wouldn't be that much
of a deal, but for some other people,
it might be. But
I don't know. It was like
it was like
people were getting all this propaganda
about,
a wonderful, fabulous
place to visit.
And
and when I got into conversations about it
with some people, it really had to do
with the politics
and
and the fact that,
Turkey is
is being run by an autocrat. We'll we'll
we'll call it that.
It's much less of a democracy than what
it started out as. There are groups that
are marginalized and being victimized in Turkey.
The mayor of,
Istanbul was arrested,
by the Turkish government. So there's a lot
that that that is
very, very
could be very concerning about going to Turkey.
And every time I heard these stories
and these reasons why I shouldn't go, I
kept thinking,
I shouldn't be in the country that I'm
in.
And, you know, and they always and and
all of these stories always ended with and
so why do you wanna give your money
to support this kind of a group? This
this kind of a this kind of a
government. And I'm thinking like, I'm paying taxes
to The US,
and I live here, and I don't know
why I wanna support this government right now.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It was like,
that's not why I travel, and that's not
and when I travel, I don't feel like
like I I am my first concern is
whether I'm supporting a regime
that is politically
doing things that I that I would disagree
with.
And if that's the case, maybe all the
more reasons to go and investigate
and find Yep. A little bit more about
what's really going on.
Right. And hopefully, you know, tourism done responsibly
is providing jobs for,
you know, regular folks. Right?
Precisely. Yes. There's there's quite a bit of
benefits involved involved with that. Right. Yeah. No.
That makes sense. Yeah. But I just was
struck. There's always people who are gonna raise
issues why you shouldn't visit this place or
that place, and I get that.
But then
why visit Why didn't you go?
And why didn't you go?
Yeah. We went because it was Istanbul particularly.
It was a place that
strangely enough,
and I say that
because it seems strange to me. I'd never
been there before.
Oh, really? Before I before I left this
mortal plane,
I wanted to see Istanbul.
Yeah. And for me, seeing the rest of
Turkey,
was secondary to that.
Istanbul
is a major historical,
I can't even I can't even say place.
It has a profound role in world history
and human history.
And,
I needed to experience it, and I needed
to see it because I talk about it
all the time because you can't talk about
all of the other civilizations that have affected
the development of cultures around the world without
understanding
Istanbul and Mhmm.
And and development
of the Ottoman Empire, but beyond the Ottoman
Empire, just Istanbul as a center of the
world, actually.
Yeah.
Not the center, but a center.
Mhmm. One, however, that I had never experienced
in all of my travels to over a
100 countries,
which is the subtitle of my new book.
Right?
Business Beyond Borders. Here comes the plug, guys.
Here it is. On borders. Here it is.
Bye.
Stories, tales, and lessons learned
from working in a 100 cultures around the
world. Nice. I always went to where my
clients sent me, and it was always work
related.
And for some weird reason, I never had
a client who sent me to Istanbul
and never Yeah. That is odd. Yeah. Very
odd. Very odd, but that's the way it
goes. You know?
There are lots of odd things in the
world. So I just chalked that up to
one of them. There's three right here. Yeah.
Three very odd things right here, this room.
So here it was, you know,
an opportunity,
that I just wanted to take and I
wanted to go. And I and and maybe
maybe I've wore maybe I was a little
blinkered to some reality that at another place
and time,
I would,
choose not to go to for various reasons.
But this one,
every reason why I shouldn't go, I felt
like
if you give me that reason, you're being
hypocritical.
If you go somewhere
else where I could also tell you all
the reasons why you shouldn't go there. Sure.
And it was, important for me to experience
it. And I did. And I'm so glad
I did because it came up to all
of my expectations.
Istanbul is
fabulous.
Just fabulous,
glorious
center of the world.
And and one of the things I realized
that is, you know, when people think of
Istanbul as I did,
you think of a city that has three
names. Right? It started out as Byzantium,
and then it became Constantinople,
and then it became Istanbul.
And what are those three names about, and
why did that happen,
and
why is it so important? And one of
the things I realized is that
and people say, but if that's the major
city, why is the capital of the country,
you know, Ankara
Mhmm. Why isn't it Istanbul?
Mhmm. And I kept thinking,
why isn't New York City the capital of
The US? Right. Exactly.
Or, you know, the capital of New York
State for that matter. Yeah. Right. Exactly.
Or or this malarial marshland that we call
Washington DC. How did that become the capital
of The United States?
Yeah. Oh, Victoria, I'm sorry. I know you
live there now, and it's a wonderful place.
It's I do. It's lovely. It's better than
it's ever been, especially because you're there now.
Oh, thank you. That's very nice.
But it did start start out as a
malarial marshland. You know? And Yeah. Yeah. That's
fair. Yeah. It did.
It did. So It did. Istanbul Istanbul. What
does this have to do with Turkey? Okay.
Istanbul
was never really the capital of of what
became the the the,
the nation of Turkey.
If first of all, the nation of Turkey
only became the nation of Turkey in the
last hundred and some odd years. Yep. Prior
to that, it was
like many other places, a
a culture that was made up of many
regional cultures.
Geographically, it was Anatolia.
Right?
The the landmass of Turkey today.
But Istanbul
was always on the edge geographically
and politically and economically.
It stood apart from the,
the cultures of Anatolia.
Istanbul was a world center and a world
culture
created by
people from all over the world,
in at sometimes
more of one area than another.
Mhmm.
But
they all came there because of its geography.
Yeah. It was the end of the Silk
Road and the beginning of
the European civilizations.
Mhmm. And it was where Europe and Asia
met
physically. Right?
And you could take a boat every day
today between Europe and Asia. You can drive
across one of the bridges that cross the
Bosporus, and and you can start out in
the morning, and you can end up in
the afternoon in Asia and then go back
to Europe or the other way around.
Yeah. That's pretty cool. It's it's really quite
phenomenal. And when you study the geography of
the city, you begin to really understand why
it developed the way it did
and,
and how different areas in the city represented
the different groups of people who came there
from all over
the world,
to
see what they're doing. Freedom, whatever it was
that they were seeking.
What are the main cultures, Dean? What are
the main cultures that seem to be influencing
at least today? What what would you say
are the main cultures that influence? Yeah. Yeah.
Well, all three
historical
cultures,
the Byzantium,
when it was Constantinople,
and then when it became
Muslim, when it became Ottoman,
all three have their influences there. So
you hear the prayer to call,
sorry, the call to prayer
from the mosques. You are reading it right
below. So that's Right. Exactly. That's right. Exactly.
Yeah.
You hear it every day from from, you
know, a 100 different mosques in the city.
And yet,
the the greatest mosque, the Hagia Sophia,
if one could say the greatest mosque, certainly
the most historic building,
in Istanbul,
stands apart and alone because it it once
was a mosque.
It became
a a a national museum,
and now it's a mosque again.
But for
more than, I think,
five hundred years, it was a church. It
was a Christian church.
Yes. And before and before that, it was
a pagan
church. If you can put pagan and church
together in the same same phrase.
So
these three certainly
play themselves out. And and today, in in
modern secular Turkey,
admittedly, the politics right now makes the government
more of a representation
of the,
of Islam and and and Muslim interests.
And depending on who you talk to, they'll
say at the expense of
other groups that are in Turkey.
But the government is still
nominally secular,
and
Islam does play its role. But Islam in
Turkey is nominally,
fairly
it's it's not fundamentalist,
and it's,
a soft version of Islam,
a secularized version of Islam, depending where in
the country you are. Certainly in Istanbul.
Yeah.
Certainly in Istanbul, it is. Right?
So all of these things come together in
this in this place,
which is only recently a a modern nation.
It was so many other things before that.
And in many ways,
probably will always be.
Can you give us kind of the itinerary
of your of your expedition to Turkey, Dean?
Like, how long were there in total? How
long in Istanbul? Yeah. I would have been
very happy to spend all my time in
Istanbul when I started, but I'm glad I
didn't because Cheryl, my wife, who came with
me reminded me that, you know, for making
this trip, let's try to see as much
of the country as we can. Yeah. And
and there's so much to see. It's has
to be the world's largest outdoor museum.
Mhmm. I mean, every city, every location, every
part of the country has its own
Roman set of Roman ruins and Hittite ruins,
which go go back before that, and Greek
ruins, which go put back before the Roman
ruins, and then all of the Ottoman,
empire that came and and overlaid all of
this.
So there's all of this to see everywhere
you go.
Yeah. Wow. So we started in Istanbul,
and we spent about five days there. And
then we moved out into, the countryside,
went east to Ankara.
And,
I would have been happy to go further
east, but, we didn't because
there was concern about the politics. You start
to get further east. You start to get,
into the borders of,
Iraq and,
the Caucasus.
And so
there there are regions that
you need to be careful just traveling through.
Mhmm. I would have felt perfectly comfortable, but
not everybody was. So we didn't do that.
The trip then took us down into Central
Turkey, into Konya, and into which is kind
of a a much more traditionalist Muslim area,
and and then into Cappadocia,
which is where they have those wonderful
fairy like chimney
houses, they call them, people living in,
basically inside stone caves that have been shaped
by nature into these very weird and strange
shapes,
which was fascinating because we actually visited a
family that lived in one of these cave
houses.
Cool. Very cool. Yeah.
It it I couldn't imagine what it would
be inside, but, of course, I could imagine.
Wait a minute. I should have said to
myself,
it's not going to be
like the caves were when people lived in
them
a thousand years ago. Right. Probably gonna have
all of the modern conveniences.
And guess what, guys? It did. You know?
What do you know?
It's the people who live there are living
there
today,
not
a thousand years ago. Right. Right.
Astounding.
Yes. Listen. So so okay. So you see
went there in in overall, what are these
I mean
okay. This is gonna sound simplistic. But but
what are these people doing? I mean, what
what are they doing? How are they how
are they living? What's what's dominating their lives
in that area? Because it sounds very interesting
that they're living in these kinds of houses,
but but does that bleed over into,
like, who they are and and what's going
on there and and why they're there, Patosio?
They're there because
people are wherever they are. Right? They're if
you're out in Cappadocia, you're out in the
center of places.
And
you probably if your family was there,
they were probably
fifty or a hundred years ago agriculturalists,
and many people are still living on farms.
It is That's what I'm wondering. Yeah. Yeah.
It is a med it's a Mediterranean
climate for the most part. You get north,
you get toward the Black Sea. It's not
quite. Although the Russians on the other side
of the Black Sea and and Ukrainians on
the other side of the Black Sea will
gladly come to the North Shore Of Turkey
for their vacations,
because it's still further south and very Mediterranean
when compared to Ukraine and and Russia.
So the climate is very mild for the
most part,
certainly along the coast and along the Southern
Coast.
And so we got down there as well,
Istanbul,
Central Turkey, Eastern Turkey, and then down to
the South.
And it's
magnificently
gorgeous,
Geographically,
one of the most stunning landscapes,
mountains going down to the sea,
and,
lots of Greek ruins because we're literally,
within
walking distance in many cases
as you go up the Western Coast to
Thrace,
which is the geographic part of Turkey, which
is in in Europe,
and it borders Greece.
And so that was the itinerary, making making
the route around.
And
people are living modern twenty first century lives.
Of course,
in most places, certainly in Istanbul, we spend
time with a, you know, a family in
their apartment in Downtown Istanbul,
living
living in a major
international city,
the way people in major international cities live.
And out in the country, though, they're they're
out in the countryside
and doing a lot of farming, actually. A
lot of agriculture going on.
Nice. Okay. Were there,
to to tell us more about when you
were in each location and so it sounds
like you did you were able to spend
some time with families
and getting to know kind of, you know,
day to day life, so to speak.
Were to what degrees
to a degree were you able to see
cultural practices happening?
Depending on who you were speaking with,
you
you would either see evidence of
some of the
ancient
traditions,
and I mean, going back to Hittites and
pre pre Greek and pre Roman.
But
since we're living in today's world now,
there was a lot of,
a a lot of influence of Islam.
Mhmm. This is a Middle Eastern country in
in geographically.
And
one of the more interesting
versions
of some of the traditions that I'm already
familiar with, but I had never really seen
until I got to Turkey
was,
the Dervishes.
And and I had no understanding
or very little of the of the impact
of the Dervish culture
on the general development of Islam in Turkey
and
of Dervish ideas,
even today,
on,
on Islam in Turkey.
Apparently,
Rumi, you know, one of the world's great
poets,
was a Dervish follower.
And,
he wrote from
and of and about
Dervish ideas and Dervish ways of life.
And when we went to visit his, tomb
in
in,
I think it was in Konya, Central Turkey,
and
and,
the
the place where
Dervish monks
lived most of their life, and Rumi, I
believe, lived part of his life as a
Dervish monk,
where we were able to witness the, yes,
the ceremony,
of the whirling Dervishes,
which I thought was gonna
be, oh, it's gonna be commercialized.
It's gonna be a touristic thing
where you where you watch these guys get
up and whirl around and
no.
No. It was a
beautiful,
truthful,
authentic,
ceremony
that
the practitioners,
the monks there,
would have done
anyway
whether there had been a visitor to observe
it or not.
Okay. Because it's part of their tradition, and
it's part of their belief system.
And we were simply privileged to observe it.
And that we were told, of course, when
it begins,
there's no there's no photography. You can't take
pictures.
But afterwards, you could you could photograph some,
some select moments,
and and they some of the,
some some of the participants would come out
and,
and answer questions and talk to us about
it.
So that was really quite
interesting for me, but that's subjective for me.
You know? It might not have been very
interesting for other people.
I just found the entire experience,
enlightening,
because I I I I love some of
Rumi's poetry. I think everybody does who reads
him.
And this was this explained a lot of
where he came from
and and why he became,
known as, you know, such a great mystic
and such a such a strong,
devout follower of this particular sect. And and
over different times in history, they had quite
a lot of political power.
You can Dean, can you give, an example
in some form
of what that,
what makes it that way to you and
what you think to others too? What what
makes it that way?
Yeah. I think if you look at the
history of Islam in Turkey,
you realize that
over different periods of time, there were different,
groups
in Islam that were looking to
define what what leadership and what Islam was
going to be in Turkey.
And,
at some
well, at one time, it was the Ottomans,
but the Ottomans were very pragmatic. They were
not necessarily,
autocratic in in their insistence on the devout
interpretation of Islam.
They were not that way at all,
which is why Istanbul, where they were centered,
became a place that was fairly welcoming to
people from all over the world.
Yeah.
But
there was a time where there was
tension between
those
the dervishes, for example, that wanted to interpret
Islam in a more mystical way,
as opposed to those who were either more
pragmatic like the Ottomans,
or those who wanted to those other
religious leaders who wanted to interpret Islam in
a more
fundamentalist
way.
And,
these groups were always vying with each other
for power,
as as Turkey,
at that by that time, had become a
Muslim
nation, one could say, even though it hadn't
really been formally become a nation.
So there was always this diff these different
ways of looking at Islam, and they these
different groups were always vying with each other.
There was a time when the Dervishes had
a lot of authority.
And then there was a time when the
Ottomans had the authority, and the two often
didn't get along with each other.
So
one could say one was a more pure
way of thinking about Islam. One was a
more mystical way of thinking of it. One
was a more practical way of thinking of
it.
And these different perspectives played itself out at
different times throughout Turkish history.
Well, for me, that stuff's fascinating. For other
people, I don't know. Maybe all they wanna
do is eat baklava.
But
no. Which, by the way, the Turks will
tell you to me. It's Turkish.
There. You've learned something already. So
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Can we talk more about your your food
experiences while there? Oh my god. This is
so good.
So so fresh. We would go, like,
yogurt
at breakfast
and fresh vegetables at breakfast,
and you mix yogurt with pomegranates
and honey,
and
I
don't know. That sounds great to me. And
it was
it was really, really, really fine food.
Well done.
Carefully done.
And
markets that was just stuffed right
right from the ground, just, you know, days
days before. And breads. Oh my god. Fresh
baked breads of all different kinds.
It was
I yeah. I'd I'd go back and just
do the just do the food.
Were you seeing clear were you seeing influences
a mix of influences from, like, Europe, Asia,
Middle East? Was that was that apparent in
food you were coming across and or eating?
Yes. Yes. This this is the story of
of Turkey and Istanbul.
It's this constant interplay of cultures from everywhere
going everywhere else. You had all of the
Silk Road from Asia
coming into Europe.
It had to go through
Istanbul to get there. And then and Istanbul
was the last
the last port. And well, it was the
first
port. You know? It it was a the
Silk Road was a land journey, but then
you got to Istanbul and you got on
ships and sailed up the Adriatic
and sailed to the rest of of Europe.
Mhmm. So everything from Asia was mixing in
right there. And the Europeans that were coming
in, going in the opposite direction,
they brought all of their cultures with them.
So the the food is an incredible mix
of all of that.
They have the influence
of Russian food and,
Caucasian food,
Iranian,
Iranians had a big influence in in Turkey
at different different times for different reasons.
So it's it's all I mean, they're selling
fresh pomegranates
on the street,
and you
and you cut them and they squeeze them
and they turn them into
fresh pomegranate juice.
I mean, in The States, we just don't
have that much fresh pomegranate juice. Right? No.
No. I really don't. They're having that as
a street snack.
Yeah. Yeah. I experienced that. And I I,
for those who don't know, served in the
peace corps in Jordan for a couple of
years, and I I experienced that too. Fresh
pomegranate juice was just glorious.
And everything was just like
I guess you could eat a lot of
junk food too there. Right? They sell that.
But Sure.
I didn't, and I didn't see it as
part of the
of the
of the food of the country.
Yeah.
The food was Nice.
Nice.
How was it,
did did you get to walk through, like,
markets in Istanbul? What what would was what
was that scene like? Yeah. Well, there's, you
know, two very big markets. There's the, spice
market,
and and then there's the,
the Grand Bazaar.
And the Grand Bazaar,
it's enormous. I mean, it's this covered it
started out as a small one, and over
the centuries, it's gotten bigger and bigger. And
it's massive and you can get lost in
there. And
I had a little case of,
what is it, agoraphobia
when you've or claustrophobia
when you're in a place that,
is so big.
Agora. Yeah. Mhmm. And I I felt like
I don't
what what would happen if I couldn't find
my way out of this? How do I
how do I get out of here? Because
it's it's it's myriads of little alleyways that
get smaller and smaller and branch out like
spiders into different
different areas, and
it's filled with shops.
People are just selling
selling everything. Right?
Day to day stuff that is not necessarily
different from what you find anywhere else. I
need a pot. I need a pan. I
need clothes for the kids.
But then, you know, really
magnificent,
original Turkish things like
fantastic rugs.
I can't resist rugs.
I can never have enough rugs, and I
don't mind bargaining. I like bargaining.
So I had a great time.
And,
so there's this Grand Bazaar, which is huge,
and then there's,
and then there's the spice market. But both
of them have become commercialized.
And I found it was much more fun
just to go through some of the the
local markets
because all it was all fresh food, and
you could just buy it and eat it
right there.
And that And the local by the local
markets, do you mean
smaller smaller towns or smaller sections of of
Istanbul
or or what? Where does Well, every every
every town every small town would have its
market
Right. Out usually, at in the big square
in front of the in front of the
big mosque.
But,
but Istanbul too is just like any big
international city. It's just a conglomeration of little
villages that over the years have grown together.
And so each
little village within Istanbul
represents usually a particular group, particular,
ethnicity,
particular
vibe in the neighborhood.
And so the food would always also represent
that.
And,
there were always little markets
throughout Istanbul
as well as these big markets as, you
know, that you could go to. And you
didn't even have to ever sit down in
a restaurant and have a meal. You could
just wander through the market and and and
nibble a notch, and that would be fine.
For me, that would be fine.
Yeah. That sounds pretty great. And just the
the smells, all, you know, all the senses
are
being used. That's great. Yeah. Exactly.
And you go you go down to the,
to to where the Golden Horn meets the
Bosporus,
And,
there are these bridges,
and there there there's one particular bridge
that is,
just lined with shops, and they're basically,
fish fish shops and seafood shops.
And you go in there, and
you order
this fish sandwich, I guess you could call
it. It's like a fried white fish,
on
a on a big sliced roll
and with, I think it's kind of I
think it's butter.
I'm not quite sure. Anyway, it's delicious. So
I believe this is called the filet o
fish. Is that is that what you're referring
to? I just see one.
Oh, okay. Okay.
And there's this there's this kind of pretzel
that they have. I that's the closest thing
I could call it is a pretzel.
It's,
it's like a rolled dough, and it's cooked,
but there's a,
a brine of, I believe, pomegranate
juice.
I think it may be pomegranate juice that
they that they,
or pomegranate molasses
that it's brined in. Like a glaze almost?
Like a glaze. Yeah. Uh-huh. And,
and you walk through the streets and and
and you you just break off pieces of
it and you eat it. Anyway, the birds
and the seagulls
down at the down at the bridges in
the water,
if you take it on one of the
ferries, and there's, like, a 100,000,000
ferries that cross the waterways in Istanbul all
day long.
The birds will descend on you and
pull the pretzel out of your hand because
they want you know, they figured all the
you know, they they've learned that thousands of
tourists all day long go go on these
boats
and, yeah, they'll take the pretzel out of
hand. You gotta eat fast. They're vulnerable. Yeah.
You can get it from them. Yeah.
It was a great experience. Great a great
city.
Wow. Sounds great. Yeah. That sounds incredible.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
So I feel like there's probably I mean,
because you you went all over the country.
I feel like there's probably so much more
we could talk about, so maybe we need
to make this a a two parter. I
know we we focus quite a bit on
Istanbul, so maybe, you know, the next part,
we can talk some Istanbul and some more
other places.
Yeah. This is it sounds so how long
were you there in total, Dean? Did you
say? Was it, like, a month?
No. It wasn't that Turkey? No. It wasn't
that long. It was about two weeks.
Okay.
It's nice. Long enough. Weeks.
Right. Sure. Yeah. Sure.
Yeah. Because the in the business, it's a
big country. Yeah. Speaking of not being long
enough, this, this podcast isn't long enough. So,
but we'll we can wrap it up to
pick this up again the next time. That
sound good?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Nice. Well, we all we can talk about
places that I need to go to that
I haven't been to yet. And Well, sure.
It's wise for me to I would like
to find out if if if our listeners
have a particular place that they need to
hear about.
Maybe I've been there and I can talk
about it. Maybe I haven't
and I should go.
We should all go. The three of us
should go. I'm going right now. Goodbye.
In a way, we're going right now. Yeah.
It's Right. Oh, okay. Alright. It's,
because after all, you know, what we are
doing is, we're talking about a certain aspect
of humans' lives and
that's because,
oops.
Your culture's showing.
Before you run off and disappear back into
your own cultures,
let me give you some information about something
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