1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,379 Today, we're talking turkey. 2 00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:04,179 Right? I think that's what we had decided 3 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,219 to talk about. Oh, okay. Alright. 4 00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:09,939 Alright. The the Why are we talking turkey? 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,299 The country. The country. Country. 6 00:00:14,714 --> 00:00:16,335 Not okay. The phrase. 7 00:00:16,954 --> 00:00:18,795 Well, we wouldn't talk about the phrase in 8 00:00:18,795 --> 00:00:19,295 this 9 00:00:19,675 --> 00:00:20,175 podcast. 10 00:00:20,554 --> 00:00:21,855 This podcast is 11 00:00:22,394 --> 00:00:22,894 oops. 12 00:00:23,355 --> 00:00:24,654 Your culture's showing. 13 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,719 I'm Dean Foster, and we talk about culture 14 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:36,659 in the show all the time because that's 15 00:00:36,799 --> 00:00:38,560 the work that I've done for thirty five 16 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,060 years. 17 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,159 And I'm Tom Peterson, and somehow I come 18 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,399 on this thing and and encourage you to 19 00:00:44,399 --> 00:00:46,384 talk about it. Well, because we had fun 20 00:00:46,384 --> 00:00:49,684 doing it. That's why. Oh. That's true. 21 00:00:50,625 --> 00:00:52,725 See, we're now we're talk we're talking turkey. 22 00:00:53,024 --> 00:00:54,884 Now we're Now we're talking turkey. 23 00:00:55,424 --> 00:00:56,884 And I'm torn Wait a minute. 24 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:58,719 What do you mean we're talking turkey? What 25 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:00,000 do you mean by that? I don't know. 26 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,679 Oh, the country you said. Right? Is that 27 00:01:01,679 --> 00:01:03,359 what we're doing, or are we talking something 28 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:05,299 else? Well, we could talk turkey, 29 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,259 but we don't have to talk turkey. 30 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:10,259 We could talk something else. 31 00:01:11,474 --> 00:01:11,974 Okay. 32 00:01:12,435 --> 00:01:14,594 Alright. Well, I'm gonna go get something to 33 00:01:14,594 --> 00:01:15,075 eat. And, 34 00:01:16,755 --> 00:01:18,515 Alright. Well, that was a good podcast. We're 35 00:01:18,515 --> 00:01:20,615 wrapping it up. Yeah. That was great. 36 00:01:21,395 --> 00:01:23,575 One of our better ones, actually, I think. 37 00:01:24,755 --> 00:01:26,869 Real tight. Brevity is the soul of it. 38 00:01:26,869 --> 00:01:27,769 You know? So 39 00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:30,950 let's let's talk let's talk the country. Because, 40 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:32,069 Dean, I think you and, 41 00:01:32,629 --> 00:01:33,849 and your wife, Cheryl, 42 00:01:34,709 --> 00:01:36,950 you both, went on an expedition to Turkey 43 00:01:36,950 --> 00:01:38,629 fairly recently. Did you not? And I I 44 00:01:38,629 --> 00:01:40,525 have heard little to nothing about it, so 45 00:01:40,525 --> 00:01:42,364 I'm very curious to know more. Yeah. One 46 00:01:42,364 --> 00:01:43,965 of the weird things about it, 47 00:01:44,525 --> 00:01:46,765 for me was I was if I would 48 00:01:46,765 --> 00:01:48,704 tell somebody we were going to Turkey 49 00:01:49,245 --> 00:01:49,745 Mhmm. 50 00:01:50,284 --> 00:01:53,005 One of the first things my American friends 51 00:01:53,005 --> 00:01:54,145 would say is, 52 00:01:55,530 --> 00:01:57,069 oh, why are you going to Turkey? 53 00:01:57,530 --> 00:02:00,170 Like, it wasn't supposed to be a place 54 00:02:00,170 --> 00:02:03,549 you you either go to or it's dangerous 55 00:02:03,770 --> 00:02:05,549 and you really wanna go there. 56 00:02:06,810 --> 00:02:09,254 And I started to get this weird feeling 57 00:02:09,254 --> 00:02:12,134 like, where did all this come from? I 58 00:02:12,134 --> 00:02:13,895 never felt that way about the place, and 59 00:02:13,895 --> 00:02:15,594 I'm usually pretty plugged in. 60 00:02:16,055 --> 00:02:17,194 So if I've 61 00:02:17,495 --> 00:02:19,594 if I hear that a place is dangerous 62 00:02:20,134 --> 00:02:20,634 or 63 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:23,959 there's some reasons why I shouldn't be visiting, 64 00:02:24,419 --> 00:02:27,239 I kinda know about it. But this attitude 65 00:02:27,539 --> 00:02:29,060 that I was getting from a lot of 66 00:02:29,060 --> 00:02:29,560 people 67 00:02:29,939 --> 00:02:31,560 really, really surprised me, 68 00:02:32,020 --> 00:02:34,819 because either I was really not plugged in 69 00:02:34,819 --> 00:02:36,814 and not hearing what they were 70 00:02:37,275 --> 00:02:39,995 hearing or something was going on in the 71 00:02:39,995 --> 00:02:40,495 air 72 00:02:40,875 --> 00:02:43,455 that were that was spooking people about 73 00:02:44,314 --> 00:02:45,534 traveling to Turkey. 74 00:02:47,594 --> 00:02:48,094 And, 75 00:02:48,979 --> 00:02:50,900 you know, I I found myself having to, 76 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:51,719 like, say, 77 00:02:52,340 --> 00:02:55,699 well, no. It's there's nothing dangerous about it, 78 00:02:55,699 --> 00:02:57,379 not anymore or less than a lot of 79 00:02:57,379 --> 00:02:58,840 other places I can think of. 80 00:02:59,219 --> 00:03:01,379 And I'm a pretty adventurous guy, so maybe 81 00:03:01,379 --> 00:03:03,925 for me, going here wouldn't be that much 82 00:03:03,925 --> 00:03:05,444 of a deal, but for some other people, 83 00:03:05,444 --> 00:03:06,585 it might be. But 84 00:03:06,885 --> 00:03:08,344 I don't know. It was like 85 00:03:09,284 --> 00:03:10,185 it was like 86 00:03:10,805 --> 00:03:12,985 people were getting all this propaganda 87 00:03:13,365 --> 00:03:13,844 about, 88 00:03:15,370 --> 00:03:16,830 a wonderful, fabulous 89 00:03:17,129 --> 00:03:18,189 place to visit. 90 00:03:19,210 --> 00:03:19,710 And 91 00:03:20,330 --> 00:03:22,330 and when I got into conversations about it 92 00:03:22,330 --> 00:03:24,330 with some people, it really had to do 93 00:03:24,330 --> 00:03:25,150 with the politics 94 00:03:25,770 --> 00:03:26,270 and 95 00:03:26,569 --> 00:03:27,770 and the fact that, 96 00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,389 Turkey is 97 00:03:30,805 --> 00:03:33,205 is being run by an autocrat. We'll we'll 98 00:03:33,205 --> 00:03:34,504 we'll call it that. 99 00:03:35,205 --> 00:03:37,705 It's much less of a democracy than what 100 00:03:38,165 --> 00:03:40,485 it started out as. There are groups that 101 00:03:40,485 --> 00:03:43,064 are marginalized and being victimized in Turkey. 102 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,159 The mayor of, 103 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:46,939 Istanbul was arrested, 104 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,719 by the Turkish government. So there's a lot 105 00:03:49,719 --> 00:03:51,420 that that that is 106 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:53,319 very, very 107 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,540 could be very concerning about going to Turkey. 108 00:03:56,599 --> 00:03:58,379 And every time I heard these stories 109 00:03:58,705 --> 00:04:01,185 and these reasons why I shouldn't go, I 110 00:04:01,185 --> 00:04:01,925 kept thinking, 111 00:04:02,384 --> 00:04:04,384 I shouldn't be in the country that I'm 112 00:04:04,384 --> 00:04:04,884 in. 113 00:04:05,185 --> 00:04:07,185 And, you know, and they always and and 114 00:04:07,185 --> 00:04:09,264 all of these stories always ended with and 115 00:04:09,264 --> 00:04:11,025 so why do you wanna give your money 116 00:04:11,025 --> 00:04:13,110 to support this kind of a group? This 117 00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:14,629 this kind of a this kind of a 118 00:04:14,629 --> 00:04:17,189 government. And I'm thinking like, I'm paying taxes 119 00:04:17,189 --> 00:04:18,089 to The US, 120 00:04:18,389 --> 00:04:20,069 and I live here, and I don't know 121 00:04:20,069 --> 00:04:22,629 why I wanna support this government right now. 122 00:04:22,629 --> 00:04:23,930 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 123 00:04:24,389 --> 00:04:25,154 It was like, 124 00:04:25,714 --> 00:04:28,214 that's not why I travel, and that's not 125 00:04:28,754 --> 00:04:30,935 and when I travel, I don't feel like 126 00:04:31,314 --> 00:04:34,435 like I I am my first concern is 127 00:04:34,435 --> 00:04:36,214 whether I'm supporting a regime 128 00:04:36,675 --> 00:04:37,654 that is politically 129 00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:42,540 doing things that I that I would disagree 130 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,180 with. 131 00:04:43,879 --> 00:04:45,879 And if that's the case, maybe all the 132 00:04:45,879 --> 00:04:47,660 more reasons to go and investigate 133 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,680 and find Yep. A little bit more about 134 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,060 what's really going on. 135 00:04:52,375 --> 00:04:55,754 Right. And hopefully, you know, tourism done responsibly 136 00:04:55,894 --> 00:04:57,435 is providing jobs for, 137 00:04:57,814 --> 00:04:59,514 you know, regular folks. Right? 138 00:04:59,894 --> 00:05:01,894 Precisely. Yes. There's there's quite a bit of 139 00:05:01,894 --> 00:05:05,175 benefits involved involved with that. Right. Yeah. No. 140 00:05:05,175 --> 00:05:07,319 That makes sense. Yeah. But I just was 141 00:05:07,319 --> 00:05:09,240 struck. There's always people who are gonna raise 142 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,240 issues why you shouldn't visit this place or 143 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:12,860 that place, and I get that. 144 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:15,500 But then 145 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,620 why visit Why didn't you go? 146 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,045 And why didn't you go? 147 00:05:21,605 --> 00:05:25,064 Yeah. We went because it was Istanbul particularly. 148 00:05:25,285 --> 00:05:26,504 It was a place that 149 00:05:26,884 --> 00:05:28,025 strangely enough, 150 00:05:28,564 --> 00:05:29,705 and I say that 151 00:05:30,645 --> 00:05:33,605 because it seems strange to me. I'd never 152 00:05:33,605 --> 00:05:34,585 been there before. 153 00:05:35,370 --> 00:05:38,410 Oh, really? Before I before I left this 154 00:05:38,410 --> 00:05:39,310 mortal plane, 155 00:05:39,850 --> 00:05:41,470 I wanted to see Istanbul. 156 00:05:42,410 --> 00:05:44,970 Yeah. And for me, seeing the rest of 157 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:45,470 Turkey, 158 00:05:46,089 --> 00:05:47,709 was secondary to that. 159 00:05:48,675 --> 00:05:49,175 Istanbul 160 00:05:49,634 --> 00:05:51,095 is a major historical, 161 00:05:54,355 --> 00:05:56,375 I can't even I can't even say place. 162 00:05:57,074 --> 00:06:00,535 It has a profound role in world history 163 00:06:01,189 --> 00:06:02,649 and human history. 164 00:06:03,269 --> 00:06:03,669 And, 165 00:06:04,069 --> 00:06:05,990 I needed to experience it, and I needed 166 00:06:05,990 --> 00:06:07,750 to see it because I talk about it 167 00:06:07,750 --> 00:06:09,689 all the time because you can't talk about 168 00:06:10,069 --> 00:06:12,649 all of the other civilizations that have affected 169 00:06:12,790 --> 00:06:15,529 the development of cultures around the world without 170 00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:16,250 understanding 171 00:06:17,004 --> 00:06:18,305 Istanbul and Mhmm. 172 00:06:19,165 --> 00:06:19,985 And and development 173 00:06:20,444 --> 00:06:23,564 of the Ottoman Empire, but beyond the Ottoman 174 00:06:23,564 --> 00:06:25,964 Empire, just Istanbul as a center of the 175 00:06:25,964 --> 00:06:26,865 world, actually. 176 00:06:27,324 --> 00:06:27,824 Yeah. 177 00:06:28,365 --> 00:06:30,225 Not the center, but a center. 178 00:06:30,699 --> 00:06:33,599 Mhmm. One, however, that I had never experienced 179 00:06:34,459 --> 00:06:36,620 in all of my travels to over a 180 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:37,519 100 countries, 181 00:06:38,379 --> 00:06:40,620 which is the subtitle of my new book. 182 00:06:40,620 --> 00:06:41,120 Right? 183 00:06:41,579 --> 00:06:44,295 Business Beyond Borders. Here comes the plug, guys. 184 00:06:44,375 --> 00:06:46,455 Here it is. On borders. Here it is. 185 00:06:46,455 --> 00:06:46,955 Bye. 186 00:06:48,535 --> 00:06:50,955 Stories, tales, and lessons learned 187 00:06:51,415 --> 00:06:53,895 from working in a 100 cultures around the 188 00:06:53,895 --> 00:06:56,775 world. Nice. I always went to where my 189 00:06:56,775 --> 00:06:59,415 clients sent me, and it was always work 190 00:06:59,415 --> 00:06:59,915 related. 191 00:07:00,669 --> 00:07:03,229 And for some weird reason, I never had 192 00:07:03,229 --> 00:07:05,089 a client who sent me to Istanbul 193 00:07:06,110 --> 00:07:08,909 and never Yeah. That is odd. Yeah. Very 194 00:07:08,909 --> 00:07:10,829 odd. Very odd, but that's the way it 195 00:07:10,829 --> 00:07:11,970 goes. You know? 196 00:07:12,430 --> 00:07:13,949 There are lots of odd things in the 197 00:07:13,949 --> 00:07:16,245 world. So I just chalked that up to 198 00:07:16,245 --> 00:07:18,884 one of them. There's three right here. Yeah. 199 00:07:18,884 --> 00:07:21,705 Three very odd things right here, this room. 200 00:07:22,805 --> 00:07:24,404 So here it was, you know, 201 00:07:25,125 --> 00:07:25,764 an opportunity, 202 00:07:27,149 --> 00:07:28,990 that I just wanted to take and I 203 00:07:28,990 --> 00:07:31,410 wanted to go. And I and and maybe 204 00:07:31,790 --> 00:07:33,709 maybe I've wore maybe I was a little 205 00:07:33,709 --> 00:07:36,669 blinkered to some reality that at another place 206 00:07:36,669 --> 00:07:37,329 and time, 207 00:07:37,870 --> 00:07:38,509 I would, 208 00:07:39,069 --> 00:07:41,490 choose not to go to for various reasons. 209 00:07:43,574 --> 00:07:44,555 But this one, 210 00:07:45,334 --> 00:07:47,894 every reason why I shouldn't go, I felt 211 00:07:47,894 --> 00:07:48,394 like 212 00:07:49,894 --> 00:07:52,375 if you give me that reason, you're being 213 00:07:52,375 --> 00:07:52,875 hypocritical. 214 00:07:53,495 --> 00:07:54,555 If you go somewhere 215 00:07:55,014 --> 00:07:56,615 else where I could also tell you all 216 00:07:56,615 --> 00:07:58,920 the reasons why you shouldn't go there. Sure. 217 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:03,220 And it was, important for me to experience 218 00:08:03,220 --> 00:08:05,300 it. And I did. And I'm so glad 219 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:07,860 I did because it came up to all 220 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:08,759 of my expectations. 221 00:08:09,779 --> 00:08:10,759 Istanbul is 222 00:08:11,779 --> 00:08:12,279 fabulous. 223 00:08:13,035 --> 00:08:13,855 Just fabulous, 224 00:08:14,955 --> 00:08:15,455 glorious 225 00:08:16,235 --> 00:08:17,535 center of the world. 226 00:08:17,915 --> 00:08:19,675 And and one of the things I realized 227 00:08:19,675 --> 00:08:21,514 that is, you know, when people think of 228 00:08:21,514 --> 00:08:23,295 Istanbul as I did, 229 00:08:23,754 --> 00:08:25,435 you think of a city that has three 230 00:08:25,435 --> 00:08:28,319 names. Right? It started out as Byzantium, 231 00:08:29,020 --> 00:08:30,639 and then it became Constantinople, 232 00:08:31,339 --> 00:08:32,799 and then it became Istanbul. 233 00:08:33,340 --> 00:08:36,000 And what are those three names about, and 234 00:08:36,139 --> 00:08:37,360 why did that happen, 235 00:08:37,820 --> 00:08:38,320 and 236 00:08:39,845 --> 00:08:41,444 why is it so important? And one of 237 00:08:41,444 --> 00:08:42,985 the things I realized is that 238 00:08:44,245 --> 00:08:46,164 and people say, but if that's the major 239 00:08:46,164 --> 00:08:48,345 city, why is the capital of the country, 240 00:08:48,964 --> 00:08:49,944 you know, Ankara 241 00:08:50,324 --> 00:08:52,105 Mhmm. Why isn't it Istanbul? 242 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:53,740 Mhmm. And I kept thinking, 243 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,040 why isn't New York City the capital of 244 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,059 The US? Right. Exactly. 245 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,120 Or, you know, the capital of New York 246 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,860 State for that matter. Yeah. Right. Exactly. 247 00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:06,200 Or or this malarial marshland that we call 248 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,835 Washington DC. How did that become the capital 249 00:09:08,835 --> 00:09:09,815 of The United States? 250 00:09:10,514 --> 00:09:12,595 Yeah. Oh, Victoria, I'm sorry. I know you 251 00:09:12,595 --> 00:09:14,434 live there now, and it's a wonderful place. 252 00:09:14,434 --> 00:09:16,115 It's I do. It's lovely. It's better than 253 00:09:16,115 --> 00:09:18,695 it's ever been, especially because you're there now. 254 00:09:18,754 --> 00:09:20,295 Oh, thank you. That's very nice. 255 00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:23,190 But it did start start out as a 256 00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:25,669 malarial marshland. You know? And Yeah. Yeah. That's 257 00:09:25,669 --> 00:09:26,970 fair. Yeah. It did. 258 00:09:27,429 --> 00:09:30,870 It did. So It did. Istanbul Istanbul. What 259 00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:32,649 does this have to do with Turkey? Okay. 260 00:09:32,709 --> 00:09:33,209 Istanbul 261 00:09:35,485 --> 00:09:37,884 was never really the capital of of what 262 00:09:37,884 --> 00:09:39,725 became the the the, 263 00:09:40,205 --> 00:09:41,504 the nation of Turkey. 264 00:09:42,924 --> 00:09:44,285 If first of all, the nation of Turkey 265 00:09:44,285 --> 00:09:45,965 only became the nation of Turkey in the 266 00:09:45,965 --> 00:09:48,924 last hundred and some odd years. Yep. Prior 267 00:09:48,924 --> 00:09:50,304 to that, it was 268 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:52,639 like many other places, a 269 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:55,179 a culture that was made up of many 270 00:09:55,179 --> 00:09:56,320 regional cultures. 271 00:09:57,340 --> 00:09:59,040 Geographically, it was Anatolia. 272 00:09:59,660 --> 00:10:00,160 Right? 273 00:10:00,540 --> 00:10:02,559 The the landmass of Turkey today. 274 00:10:04,065 --> 00:10:04,804 But Istanbul 275 00:10:06,225 --> 00:10:08,804 was always on the edge geographically 276 00:10:09,504 --> 00:10:11,125 and politically and economically. 277 00:10:11,745 --> 00:10:14,085 It stood apart from the, 278 00:10:14,865 --> 00:10:16,485 the cultures of Anatolia. 279 00:10:17,470 --> 00:10:20,350 Istanbul was a world center and a world 280 00:10:20,350 --> 00:10:20,850 culture 281 00:10:21,309 --> 00:10:22,289 created by 282 00:10:23,389 --> 00:10:25,250 people from all over the world, 283 00:10:26,350 --> 00:10:27,490 in at sometimes 284 00:10:28,269 --> 00:10:30,129 more of one area than another. 285 00:10:30,669 --> 00:10:31,169 Mhmm. 286 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:31,970 But 287 00:10:33,375 --> 00:10:36,274 they all came there because of its geography. 288 00:10:36,815 --> 00:10:38,815 Yeah. It was the end of the Silk 289 00:10:38,815 --> 00:10:40,914 Road and the beginning of 290 00:10:41,294 --> 00:10:42,674 the European civilizations. 291 00:10:43,375 --> 00:10:46,355 Mhmm. And it was where Europe and Asia 292 00:10:46,894 --> 00:10:47,394 met 293 00:10:47,889 --> 00:10:49,190 physically. Right? 294 00:10:50,450 --> 00:10:52,049 And you could take a boat every day 295 00:10:52,049 --> 00:10:54,529 today between Europe and Asia. You can drive 296 00:10:54,529 --> 00:10:56,370 across one of the bridges that cross the 297 00:10:56,370 --> 00:10:58,529 Bosporus, and and you can start out in 298 00:10:58,529 --> 00:11:00,049 the morning, and you can end up in 299 00:11:00,049 --> 00:11:01,730 the afternoon in Asia and then go back 300 00:11:01,730 --> 00:11:03,350 to Europe or the other way around. 301 00:11:03,674 --> 00:11:06,634 Yeah. That's pretty cool. It's it's really quite 302 00:11:06,634 --> 00:11:08,794 phenomenal. And when you study the geography of 303 00:11:08,794 --> 00:11:11,115 the city, you begin to really understand why 304 00:11:11,115 --> 00:11:12,654 it developed the way it did 305 00:11:13,034 --> 00:11:13,534 and, 306 00:11:14,075 --> 00:11:16,495 and how different areas in the city represented 307 00:11:16,554 --> 00:11:19,590 the different groups of people who came there 308 00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:20,570 from all over 309 00:11:21,029 --> 00:11:21,690 the world, 310 00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:22,730 to 311 00:11:23,029 --> 00:11:26,389 see what they're doing. Freedom, whatever it was 312 00:11:26,389 --> 00:11:27,370 that they were seeking. 313 00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:30,230 What are the main cultures, Dean? What are 314 00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:32,570 the main cultures that seem to be influencing 315 00:11:33,715 --> 00:11:35,394 at least today? What what would you say 316 00:11:35,394 --> 00:11:38,195 are the main cultures that influence? Yeah. Yeah. 317 00:11:38,195 --> 00:11:39,414 Well, all three 318 00:11:39,794 --> 00:11:40,294 historical 319 00:11:40,595 --> 00:11:41,095 cultures, 320 00:11:41,875 --> 00:11:42,534 the Byzantium, 321 00:11:43,634 --> 00:11:44,615 when it was Constantinople, 322 00:11:46,759 --> 00:11:48,379 and then when it became 323 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:50,459 Muslim, when it became Ottoman, 324 00:11:51,159 --> 00:11:53,579 all three have their influences there. So 325 00:11:53,959 --> 00:11:55,659 you hear the prayer to call, 326 00:11:56,839 --> 00:11:58,220 sorry, the call to prayer 327 00:11:58,544 --> 00:12:00,144 from the mosques. You are reading it right 328 00:12:00,144 --> 00:12:02,464 below. So that's Right. Exactly. That's right. Exactly. 329 00:12:02,464 --> 00:12:02,964 Yeah. 330 00:12:04,384 --> 00:12:06,464 You hear it every day from from, you 331 00:12:06,464 --> 00:12:08,804 know, a 100 different mosques in the city. 332 00:12:09,904 --> 00:12:10,644 And yet, 333 00:12:12,779 --> 00:12:15,679 the the greatest mosque, the Hagia Sophia, 334 00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:18,860 if one could say the greatest mosque, certainly 335 00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:20,319 the most historic building, 336 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:21,919 in Istanbul, 337 00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:25,504 stands apart and alone because it it once 338 00:12:25,504 --> 00:12:26,404 was a mosque. 339 00:12:27,184 --> 00:12:27,764 It became 340 00:12:28,465 --> 00:12:29,605 a a a national museum, 341 00:12:30,304 --> 00:12:32,004 and now it's a mosque again. 342 00:12:32,705 --> 00:12:33,605 But for 343 00:12:34,225 --> 00:12:36,165 more than, I think, 344 00:12:36,545 --> 00:12:39,024 five hundred years, it was a church. It 345 00:12:39,024 --> 00:12:40,245 was a Christian church. 346 00:12:40,569 --> 00:12:42,569 Yes. And before and before that, it was 347 00:12:42,569 --> 00:12:43,230 a pagan 348 00:12:43,690 --> 00:12:46,009 church. If you can put pagan and church 349 00:12:46,009 --> 00:12:48,190 together in the same same phrase. 350 00:12:48,889 --> 00:12:49,389 So 351 00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:51,709 these three certainly 352 00:12:52,329 --> 00:12:55,334 play themselves out. And and today, in in 353 00:12:55,334 --> 00:12:56,875 modern secular Turkey, 354 00:12:58,134 --> 00:13:01,434 admittedly, the politics right now makes the government 355 00:13:01,735 --> 00:13:03,514 more of a representation 356 00:13:03,975 --> 00:13:04,714 of the, 357 00:13:05,574 --> 00:13:08,394 of Islam and and and Muslim interests. 358 00:13:09,540 --> 00:13:11,379 And depending on who you talk to, they'll 359 00:13:11,379 --> 00:13:13,000 say at the expense of 360 00:13:13,379 --> 00:13:15,399 other groups that are in Turkey. 361 00:13:18,179 --> 00:13:19,879 But the government is still 362 00:13:21,139 --> 00:13:22,440 nominally secular, 363 00:13:23,264 --> 00:13:23,764 and 364 00:13:24,625 --> 00:13:27,105 Islam does play its role. But Islam in 365 00:13:27,105 --> 00:13:28,565 Turkey is nominally, 366 00:13:31,264 --> 00:13:31,504 fairly 367 00:13:34,944 --> 00:13:36,324 it's it's not fundamentalist, 368 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:38,559 and it's, 369 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:42,000 a soft version of Islam, 370 00:13:42,379 --> 00:13:45,259 a secularized version of Islam, depending where in 371 00:13:45,259 --> 00:13:47,200 the country you are. Certainly in Istanbul. 372 00:13:48,139 --> 00:13:48,639 Yeah. 373 00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:51,825 Certainly in Istanbul, it is. Right? 374 00:13:52,384 --> 00:13:54,544 So all of these things come together in 375 00:13:54,544 --> 00:13:55,605 this in this place, 376 00:13:56,625 --> 00:14:00,004 which is only recently a a modern nation. 377 00:14:01,024 --> 00:14:03,285 It was so many other things before that. 378 00:14:03,825 --> 00:14:05,285 And in many ways, 379 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,620 probably will always be. 380 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:15,139 Can you give us kind of the itinerary 381 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,679 of your of your expedition to Turkey, Dean? 382 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,200 Like, how long were there in total? How 383 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,004 long in Istanbul? Yeah. I would have been 384 00:14:21,004 --> 00:14:22,764 very happy to spend all my time in 385 00:14:22,764 --> 00:14:24,924 Istanbul when I started, but I'm glad I 386 00:14:24,924 --> 00:14:27,165 didn't because Cheryl, my wife, who came with 387 00:14:27,165 --> 00:14:29,644 me reminded me that, you know, for making 388 00:14:29,644 --> 00:14:31,325 this trip, let's try to see as much 389 00:14:31,325 --> 00:14:33,804 of the country as we can. Yeah. And 390 00:14:33,804 --> 00:14:36,419 and there's so much to see. It's has 391 00:14:36,419 --> 00:14:38,839 to be the world's largest outdoor museum. 392 00:14:39,139 --> 00:14:42,360 Mhmm. I mean, every city, every location, every 393 00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:44,519 part of the country has its own 394 00:14:46,259 --> 00:14:49,059 Roman set of Roman ruins and Hittite ruins, 395 00:14:49,059 --> 00:14:52,095 which go go back before that, and Greek 396 00:14:52,095 --> 00:14:54,415 ruins, which go put back before the Roman 397 00:14:54,415 --> 00:14:57,075 ruins, and then all of the Ottoman, 398 00:14:58,174 --> 00:15:00,894 empire that came and and overlaid all of 399 00:15:00,894 --> 00:15:01,394 this. 400 00:15:02,495 --> 00:15:04,995 So there's all of this to see everywhere 401 00:15:05,054 --> 00:15:05,715 you go. 402 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,740 Yeah. Wow. So we started in Istanbul, 403 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,360 and we spent about five days there. And 404 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,179 then we moved out into, the countryside, 405 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,340 went east to Ankara. 406 00:15:16,879 --> 00:15:17,279 And, 407 00:15:17,985 --> 00:15:19,825 I would have been happy to go further 408 00:15:19,825 --> 00:15:21,845 east, but, we didn't because 409 00:15:22,625 --> 00:15:24,865 there was concern about the politics. You start 410 00:15:24,865 --> 00:15:26,784 to get further east. You start to get, 411 00:15:27,345 --> 00:15:28,884 into the borders of, 412 00:15:29,424 --> 00:15:30,644 Iraq and, 413 00:15:30,945 --> 00:15:31,605 the Caucasus. 414 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:33,539 And so 415 00:15:35,039 --> 00:15:36,579 there there are regions that 416 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:39,759 you need to be careful just traveling through. 417 00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:42,639 Mhmm. I would have felt perfectly comfortable, but 418 00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:45,014 not everybody was. So we didn't do that. 419 00:15:46,295 --> 00:15:48,774 The trip then took us down into Central 420 00:15:48,774 --> 00:15:51,335 Turkey, into Konya, and into which is kind 421 00:15:51,335 --> 00:15:54,475 of a a much more traditionalist Muslim area, 422 00:15:56,295 --> 00:15:58,315 and and then into Cappadocia, 423 00:15:58,950 --> 00:16:01,129 which is where they have those wonderful 424 00:16:01,670 --> 00:16:02,970 fairy like chimney 425 00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:06,170 houses, they call them, people living in, 426 00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:10,649 basically inside stone caves that have been shaped 427 00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:13,615 by nature into these very weird and strange 428 00:16:13,615 --> 00:16:14,115 shapes, 429 00:16:15,295 --> 00:16:18,014 which was fascinating because we actually visited a 430 00:16:18,014 --> 00:16:19,855 family that lived in one of these cave 431 00:16:19,855 --> 00:16:20,355 houses. 432 00:16:20,975 --> 00:16:22,514 Cool. Very cool. Yeah. 433 00:16:23,774 --> 00:16:25,615 It it I couldn't imagine what it would 434 00:16:25,615 --> 00:16:27,715 be inside, but, of course, I could imagine. 435 00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:29,429 Wait a minute. I should have said to 436 00:16:29,429 --> 00:16:29,929 myself, 437 00:16:30,309 --> 00:16:31,850 it's not going to be 438 00:16:32,149 --> 00:16:34,789 like the caves were when people lived in 439 00:16:34,789 --> 00:16:35,289 them 440 00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:39,289 a thousand years ago. Right. Probably gonna have 441 00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:41,049 all of the modern conveniences. 442 00:16:41,669 --> 00:16:44,464 And guess what, guys? It did. You know? 443 00:16:45,164 --> 00:16:46,065 What do you know? 444 00:16:46,524 --> 00:16:48,764 It's the people who live there are living 445 00:16:48,764 --> 00:16:49,264 there 446 00:16:49,565 --> 00:16:50,065 today, 447 00:16:50,605 --> 00:16:51,105 not 448 00:16:51,485 --> 00:16:53,824 a thousand years ago. Right. Right. 449 00:16:56,284 --> 00:16:56,784 Astounding. 450 00:16:57,324 --> 00:16:57,824 Astounding. 451 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,960 Yes. Listen. So so okay. So you see 452 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,759 went there in in overall, what are these 453 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:05,660 I mean 454 00:17:06,039 --> 00:17:07,960 okay. This is gonna sound simplistic. But but 455 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,220 what are these people doing? I mean, what 456 00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:12,134 what are they doing? How are they how 457 00:17:12,134 --> 00:17:15,055 are they living? What's what's dominating their lives 458 00:17:15,055 --> 00:17:17,954 in that area? Because it sounds very interesting 459 00:17:18,015 --> 00:17:19,615 that they're living in these kinds of houses, 460 00:17:19,615 --> 00:17:22,434 but but does that bleed over into, 461 00:17:22,815 --> 00:17:25,134 like, who they are and and what's going 462 00:17:25,134 --> 00:17:27,634 on there and and why they're there, Patosio? 463 00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:30,380 They're there because 464 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:33,559 people are wherever they are. Right? They're if 465 00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:35,720 you're out in Cappadocia, you're out in the 466 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,339 center of places. 467 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:38,220 And 468 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:41,259 you probably if your family was there, 469 00:17:41,914 --> 00:17:42,974 they were probably 470 00:17:43,275 --> 00:17:45,454 fifty or a hundred years ago agriculturalists, 471 00:17:46,474 --> 00:17:48,815 and many people are still living on farms. 472 00:17:49,515 --> 00:17:51,934 It is That's what I'm wondering. Yeah. Yeah. 473 00:17:52,794 --> 00:17:54,589 It is a med it's a Mediterranean 474 00:17:55,049 --> 00:17:57,289 climate for the most part. You get north, 475 00:17:57,289 --> 00:17:59,130 you get toward the Black Sea. It's not 476 00:17:59,130 --> 00:18:01,690 quite. Although the Russians on the other side 477 00:18:01,690 --> 00:18:03,690 of the Black Sea and and Ukrainians on 478 00:18:03,690 --> 00:18:05,529 the other side of the Black Sea will 479 00:18:05,529 --> 00:18:08,734 gladly come to the North Shore Of Turkey 480 00:18:08,875 --> 00:18:09,855 for their vacations, 481 00:18:11,115 --> 00:18:14,174 because it's still further south and very Mediterranean 482 00:18:15,275 --> 00:18:17,855 when compared to Ukraine and and Russia. 483 00:18:20,075 --> 00:18:23,019 So the climate is very mild for the 484 00:18:23,019 --> 00:18:23,759 most part, 485 00:18:25,259 --> 00:18:27,660 certainly along the coast and along the Southern 486 00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:28,160 Coast. 487 00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:30,799 And so we got down there as well, 488 00:18:31,099 --> 00:18:31,599 Istanbul, 489 00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:34,460 Central Turkey, Eastern Turkey, and then down to 490 00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:35,119 the South. 491 00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:36,480 And it's 492 00:18:36,779 --> 00:18:37,279 magnificently 493 00:18:37,660 --> 00:18:38,160 gorgeous, 494 00:18:39,154 --> 00:18:39,654 Geographically, 495 00:18:40,275 --> 00:18:42,054 one of the most stunning landscapes, 496 00:18:43,315 --> 00:18:45,174 mountains going down to the sea, 497 00:18:45,714 --> 00:18:46,214 and, 498 00:18:46,755 --> 00:18:49,654 lots of Greek ruins because we're literally, 499 00:18:50,515 --> 00:18:51,015 within 500 00:18:51,714 --> 00:18:53,654 walking distance in many cases 501 00:18:54,089 --> 00:18:56,750 as you go up the Western Coast to 502 00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:57,470 Thrace, 503 00:18:58,009 --> 00:19:00,809 which is the geographic part of Turkey, which 504 00:19:00,809 --> 00:19:02,190 is in in Europe, 505 00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:03,869 and it borders Greece. 506 00:19:04,890 --> 00:19:08,015 And so that was the itinerary, making making 507 00:19:08,015 --> 00:19:09,075 the route around. 508 00:19:10,894 --> 00:19:11,394 And 509 00:19:13,454 --> 00:19:16,974 people are living modern twenty first century lives. 510 00:19:16,974 --> 00:19:17,634 Of course, 511 00:19:18,095 --> 00:19:20,815 in most places, certainly in Istanbul, we spend 512 00:19:20,815 --> 00:19:23,100 time with a, you know, a family in 513 00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:25,359 their apartment in Downtown Istanbul, 514 00:19:26,779 --> 00:19:27,279 living 515 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:29,039 living in a major 516 00:19:29,660 --> 00:19:30,799 international city, 517 00:19:31,580 --> 00:19:34,400 the way people in major international cities live. 518 00:19:34,985 --> 00:19:37,545 And out in the country, though, they're they're 519 00:19:37,545 --> 00:19:38,445 out in the countryside 520 00:19:39,225 --> 00:19:41,785 and doing a lot of farming, actually. A 521 00:19:41,785 --> 00:19:43,565 lot of agriculture going on. 522 00:19:46,184 --> 00:19:48,460 Nice. Okay. Were there, 523 00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:51,480 to to tell us more about when you 524 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,240 were in each location and so it sounds 525 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:54,759 like you did you were able to spend 526 00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:56,220 some time with families 527 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,875 and getting to know kind of, you know, 528 00:19:58,875 --> 00:20:00,494 day to day life, so to speak. 529 00:20:01,515 --> 00:20:02,894 Were to what degrees 530 00:20:03,434 --> 00:20:05,355 to a degree were you able to see 531 00:20:05,355 --> 00:20:06,974 cultural practices happening? 532 00:20:07,674 --> 00:20:09,775 Depending on who you were speaking with, 533 00:20:12,234 --> 00:20:12,734 you 534 00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:16,340 you would either see evidence of 535 00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:18,019 some of the 536 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:19,059 ancient 537 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:20,180 traditions, 538 00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:24,259 and I mean, going back to Hittites and 539 00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:26,820 pre pre Greek and pre Roman. 540 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,220 But 541 00:20:30,615 --> 00:20:33,035 since we're living in today's world now, 542 00:20:33,494 --> 00:20:34,535 there was a lot of, 543 00:20:36,455 --> 00:20:38,555 a a lot of influence of Islam. 544 00:20:39,095 --> 00:20:41,335 Mhmm. This is a Middle Eastern country in 545 00:20:41,335 --> 00:20:42,474 in geographically. 546 00:20:43,654 --> 00:20:44,154 And 547 00:20:45,690 --> 00:20:47,149 one of the more interesting 548 00:20:47,529 --> 00:20:48,029 versions 549 00:20:48,409 --> 00:20:50,649 of some of the traditions that I'm already 550 00:20:50,649 --> 00:20:52,909 familiar with, but I had never really seen 551 00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:54,429 until I got to Turkey 552 00:20:54,809 --> 00:20:55,289 was, 553 00:20:55,690 --> 00:20:56,429 the Dervishes. 554 00:20:57,210 --> 00:20:59,470 And and I had no understanding 555 00:20:59,769 --> 00:21:02,945 or very little of the of the impact 556 00:21:03,164 --> 00:21:04,704 of the Dervish culture 557 00:21:05,164 --> 00:21:08,224 on the general development of Islam in Turkey 558 00:21:08,445 --> 00:21:08,945 and 559 00:21:10,125 --> 00:21:11,585 of Dervish ideas, 560 00:21:13,330 --> 00:21:14,150 even today, 561 00:21:15,650 --> 00:21:16,150 on, 562 00:21:16,930 --> 00:21:18,470 on Islam in Turkey. 563 00:21:18,930 --> 00:21:19,430 Apparently, 564 00:21:21,090 --> 00:21:23,250 Rumi, you know, one of the world's great 565 00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:23,750 poets, 566 00:21:24,690 --> 00:21:26,549 was a Dervish follower. 567 00:21:27,865 --> 00:21:28,105 And, 568 00:21:28,664 --> 00:21:30,125 he wrote from 569 00:21:30,505 --> 00:21:31,884 and of and about 570 00:21:32,744 --> 00:21:35,164 Dervish ideas and Dervish ways of life. 571 00:21:36,345 --> 00:21:39,085 And when we went to visit his, tomb 572 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:39,859 in 573 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:40,740 in, 574 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,700 I think it was in Konya, Central Turkey, 575 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:45,700 and 576 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:46,900 and, 577 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:48,019 the 578 00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:51,619 the place where 579 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:52,980 Dervish monks 580 00:21:53,404 --> 00:21:55,804 lived most of their life, and Rumi, I 581 00:21:55,804 --> 00:21:57,884 believe, lived part of his life as a 582 00:21:57,884 --> 00:21:58,865 Dervish monk, 583 00:21:59,565 --> 00:22:01,884 where we were able to witness the, yes, 584 00:22:01,884 --> 00:22:02,544 the ceremony, 585 00:22:03,804 --> 00:22:05,184 of the whirling Dervishes, 586 00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:07,390 which I thought was gonna 587 00:22:08,650 --> 00:22:10,509 be, oh, it's gonna be commercialized. 588 00:22:10,970 --> 00:22:13,630 It's gonna be a touristic thing 589 00:22:14,009 --> 00:22:16,170 where you where you watch these guys get 590 00:22:16,170 --> 00:22:17,869 up and whirl around and 591 00:22:19,289 --> 00:22:19,789 no. 592 00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:21,904 No. It was a 593 00:22:22,285 --> 00:22:22,785 beautiful, 594 00:22:23,164 --> 00:22:23,664 truthful, 595 00:22:25,644 --> 00:22:26,144 authentic, 596 00:22:28,684 --> 00:22:29,184 ceremony 597 00:22:29,884 --> 00:22:30,384 that 598 00:22:30,924 --> 00:22:31,664 the practitioners, 599 00:22:32,045 --> 00:22:32,940 the monks there, 600 00:22:33,579 --> 00:22:34,799 would have done 601 00:22:35,179 --> 00:22:35,679 anyway 602 00:22:36,059 --> 00:22:38,299 whether there had been a visitor to observe 603 00:22:38,299 --> 00:22:39,200 it or not. 604 00:22:39,659 --> 00:22:41,980 Okay. Because it's part of their tradition, and 605 00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:43,679 it's part of their belief system. 606 00:22:44,619 --> 00:22:47,714 And we were simply privileged to observe it. 607 00:22:48,355 --> 00:22:50,355 And that we were told, of course, when 608 00:22:50,355 --> 00:22:51,095 it begins, 609 00:22:52,275 --> 00:22:54,914 there's no there's no photography. You can't take 610 00:22:54,914 --> 00:22:55,414 pictures. 611 00:22:55,954 --> 00:22:58,595 But afterwards, you could you could photograph some, 612 00:22:59,899 --> 00:23:01,359 some select moments, 613 00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:03,899 and and they some of the, 614 00:23:04,539 --> 00:23:06,539 some some of the participants would come out 615 00:23:06,539 --> 00:23:07,039 and, 616 00:23:07,980 --> 00:23:10,059 and answer questions and talk to us about 617 00:23:10,059 --> 00:23:10,559 it. 618 00:23:11,419 --> 00:23:13,039 So that was really quite 619 00:23:13,705 --> 00:23:16,265 interesting for me, but that's subjective for me. 620 00:23:16,265 --> 00:23:17,625 You know? It might not have been very 621 00:23:17,625 --> 00:23:18,924 interesting for other people. 622 00:23:20,265 --> 00:23:22,365 I just found the entire experience, 623 00:23:23,545 --> 00:23:24,045 enlightening, 624 00:23:24,825 --> 00:23:26,985 because I I I I love some of 625 00:23:26,985 --> 00:23:30,580 Rumi's poetry. I think everybody does who reads 626 00:23:30,580 --> 00:23:31,080 him. 627 00:23:32,340 --> 00:23:34,900 And this was this explained a lot of 628 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:36,119 where he came from 629 00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:38,359 and and why he became, 630 00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:41,619 known as, you know, such a great mystic 631 00:23:41,619 --> 00:23:43,714 and such a such a strong, 632 00:23:44,894 --> 00:23:48,575 devout follower of this particular sect. And and 633 00:23:48,575 --> 00:23:50,575 over different times in history, they had quite 634 00:23:50,575 --> 00:23:51,954 a lot of political power. 635 00:23:53,535 --> 00:23:56,115 You can Dean, can you give, an example 636 00:23:56,734 --> 00:23:57,714 in some form 637 00:23:58,319 --> 00:23:59,460 of what that, 638 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,440 what makes it that way to you and 639 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,000 what you think to others too? What what 640 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,140 makes it that way? 641 00:24:07,679 --> 00:24:08,960 Yeah. I think if you look at the 642 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,140 history of Islam in Turkey, 643 00:24:12,079 --> 00:24:13,140 you realize that 644 00:24:13,985 --> 00:24:17,025 over different periods of time, there were different, 645 00:24:17,424 --> 00:24:17,924 groups 646 00:24:18,225 --> 00:24:20,404 in Islam that were looking to 647 00:24:20,865 --> 00:24:23,904 define what what leadership and what Islam was 648 00:24:23,904 --> 00:24:25,605 going to be in Turkey. 649 00:24:25,985 --> 00:24:26,485 And, 650 00:24:27,585 --> 00:24:28,065 at some 651 00:24:28,669 --> 00:24:30,289 well, at one time, it was the Ottomans, 652 00:24:30,349 --> 00:24:32,589 but the Ottomans were very pragmatic. They were 653 00:24:32,589 --> 00:24:33,809 not necessarily, 654 00:24:36,429 --> 00:24:39,250 autocratic in in their insistence on the devout 655 00:24:39,309 --> 00:24:40,769 interpretation of Islam. 656 00:24:41,355 --> 00:24:43,054 They were not that way at all, 657 00:24:43,674 --> 00:24:46,174 which is why Istanbul, where they were centered, 658 00:24:46,234 --> 00:24:48,954 became a place that was fairly welcoming to 659 00:24:48,954 --> 00:24:50,654 people from all over the world. 660 00:24:51,914 --> 00:24:52,414 Yeah. 661 00:24:53,115 --> 00:24:53,615 But 662 00:24:54,474 --> 00:24:56,490 there was a time where there was 663 00:24:57,690 --> 00:24:58,750 tension between 664 00:25:00,170 --> 00:25:00,670 those 665 00:25:01,130 --> 00:25:04,190 the dervishes, for example, that wanted to interpret 666 00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:06,509 Islam in a more mystical way, 667 00:25:07,529 --> 00:25:09,529 as opposed to those who were either more 668 00:25:09,529 --> 00:25:11,069 pragmatic like the Ottomans, 669 00:25:12,015 --> 00:25:14,755 or those who wanted to those other 670 00:25:15,295 --> 00:25:18,734 religious leaders who wanted to interpret Islam in 671 00:25:18,734 --> 00:25:19,394 a more 672 00:25:21,295 --> 00:25:21,795 fundamentalist 673 00:25:22,174 --> 00:25:22,674 way. 674 00:25:23,549 --> 00:25:24,049 And, 675 00:25:24,670 --> 00:25:27,650 these groups were always vying with each other 676 00:25:28,029 --> 00:25:28,850 for power, 677 00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:31,809 as as Turkey, 678 00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:35,789 at that by that time, had become a 679 00:25:35,789 --> 00:25:36,289 Muslim 680 00:25:37,384 --> 00:25:39,784 nation, one could say, even though it hadn't 681 00:25:39,784 --> 00:25:42,044 really been formally become a nation. 682 00:25:42,345 --> 00:25:44,424 So there was always this diff these different 683 00:25:44,424 --> 00:25:46,984 ways of looking at Islam, and they these 684 00:25:46,984 --> 00:25:50,099 different groups were always vying with each other. 685 00:25:50,179 --> 00:25:52,019 There was a time when the Dervishes had 686 00:25:52,019 --> 00:25:53,000 a lot of authority. 687 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:55,460 And then there was a time when the 688 00:25:55,460 --> 00:25:58,099 Ottomans had the authority, and the two often 689 00:25:58,099 --> 00:25:59,720 didn't get along with each other. 690 00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:01,400 So 691 00:26:02,019 --> 00:26:04,615 one could say one was a more pure 692 00:26:04,615 --> 00:26:06,534 way of thinking about Islam. One was a 693 00:26:06,534 --> 00:26:08,694 more mystical way of thinking of it. One 694 00:26:08,694 --> 00:26:10,694 was a more practical way of thinking of 695 00:26:10,694 --> 00:26:11,194 it. 696 00:26:12,454 --> 00:26:15,575 And these different perspectives played itself out at 697 00:26:15,575 --> 00:26:18,075 different times throughout Turkish history. 698 00:26:18,970 --> 00:26:21,450 Well, for me, that stuff's fascinating. For other 699 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:23,369 people, I don't know. Maybe all they wanna 700 00:26:23,369 --> 00:26:24,429 do is eat baklava. 701 00:26:24,809 --> 00:26:25,309 But 702 00:26:25,769 --> 00:26:27,369 no. Which, by the way, the Turks will 703 00:26:27,369 --> 00:26:29,069 tell you to me. It's Turkish. 704 00:26:29,690 --> 00:26:31,849 There. You've learned something already. So 705 00:26:32,649 --> 00:26:33,950 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 706 00:26:39,545 --> 00:26:41,305 Can we talk more about your your food 707 00:26:41,305 --> 00:26:44,505 experiences while there? Oh my god. This is 708 00:26:44,505 --> 00:26:45,404 so good. 709 00:26:45,945 --> 00:26:48,660 So so fresh. We would go, like, 710 00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:50,339 yogurt 711 00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:51,460 at breakfast 712 00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:54,019 and fresh vegetables at breakfast, 713 00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:57,140 and you mix yogurt with pomegranates 714 00:26:57,519 --> 00:26:58,339 and honey, 715 00:26:58,799 --> 00:26:59,299 and 716 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,140 I 717 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,554 don't know. That sounds great to me. And 718 00:27:03,554 --> 00:27:04,294 it was 719 00:27:05,554 --> 00:27:08,134 it was really, really, really fine food. 720 00:27:09,394 --> 00:27:10,214 Well done. 721 00:27:10,754 --> 00:27:11,815 Carefully done. 722 00:27:13,315 --> 00:27:13,815 And 723 00:27:15,234 --> 00:27:17,414 markets that was just stuffed right 724 00:27:17,779 --> 00:27:20,419 right from the ground, just, you know, days 725 00:27:20,419 --> 00:27:23,700 days before. And breads. Oh my god. Fresh 726 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:25,559 baked breads of all different kinds. 727 00:27:26,339 --> 00:27:27,079 It was 728 00:27:27,779 --> 00:27:30,019 I yeah. I'd I'd go back and just 729 00:27:30,019 --> 00:27:31,480 do the just do the food. 730 00:27:31,994 --> 00:27:34,974 Were you seeing clear were you seeing influences 731 00:27:36,075 --> 00:27:39,535 a mix of influences from, like, Europe, Asia, 732 00:27:39,674 --> 00:27:42,714 Middle East? Was that was that apparent in 733 00:27:42,714 --> 00:27:45,214 food you were coming across and or eating? 734 00:27:45,434 --> 00:27:48,529 Yes. Yes. This this is the story of 735 00:27:48,529 --> 00:27:49,990 of Turkey and Istanbul. 736 00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:54,710 It's this constant interplay of cultures from everywhere 737 00:27:54,930 --> 00:27:57,970 going everywhere else. You had all of the 738 00:27:57,970 --> 00:27:59,269 Silk Road from Asia 739 00:27:59,575 --> 00:28:00,634 coming into Europe. 740 00:28:00,934 --> 00:28:02,555 It had to go through 741 00:28:03,095 --> 00:28:06,475 Istanbul to get there. And then and Istanbul 742 00:28:06,535 --> 00:28:07,355 was the last 743 00:28:07,894 --> 00:28:10,055 the last port. And well, it was the 744 00:28:10,055 --> 00:28:10,555 first 745 00:28:11,414 --> 00:28:13,910 port. You know? It it was a the 746 00:28:13,910 --> 00:28:15,910 Silk Road was a land journey, but then 747 00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:17,830 you got to Istanbul and you got on 748 00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:19,609 ships and sailed up the Adriatic 749 00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:22,250 and sailed to the rest of of Europe. 750 00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:25,750 Mhmm. So everything from Asia was mixing in 751 00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:27,775 right there. And the Europeans that were coming 752 00:28:27,775 --> 00:28:29,714 in, going in the opposite direction, 753 00:28:30,575 --> 00:28:33,234 they brought all of their cultures with them. 754 00:28:33,295 --> 00:28:36,654 So the the food is an incredible mix 755 00:28:36,654 --> 00:28:37,634 of all of that. 756 00:28:37,934 --> 00:28:38,755 They have the influence 757 00:28:39,295 --> 00:28:40,994 of Russian food and, 758 00:28:42,015 --> 00:28:43,234 Caucasian food, 759 00:28:43,829 --> 00:28:44,329 Iranian, 760 00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:47,669 Iranians had a big influence in in Turkey 761 00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:50,490 at different different times for different reasons. 762 00:28:51,910 --> 00:28:54,230 So it's it's all I mean, they're selling 763 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:55,049 fresh pomegranates 764 00:28:55,394 --> 00:28:56,134 on the street, 765 00:28:56,674 --> 00:28:57,575 and you 766 00:28:57,955 --> 00:28:59,714 and you cut them and they squeeze them 767 00:28:59,714 --> 00:29:00,934 and they turn them into 768 00:29:01,394 --> 00:29:03,015 fresh pomegranate juice. 769 00:29:03,555 --> 00:29:05,555 I mean, in The States, we just don't 770 00:29:05,555 --> 00:29:08,434 have that much fresh pomegranate juice. Right? No. 771 00:29:08,434 --> 00:29:10,869 No. I really don't. They're having that as 772 00:29:10,869 --> 00:29:11,690 a street snack. 773 00:29:13,349 --> 00:29:15,669 Yeah. Yeah. I experienced that. And I I, 774 00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:17,029 for those who don't know, served in the 775 00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:18,470 peace corps in Jordan for a couple of 776 00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:20,309 years, and I I experienced that too. Fresh 777 00:29:20,309 --> 00:29:22,169 pomegranate juice was just glorious. 778 00:29:24,150 --> 00:29:25,575 And everything was just like 779 00:29:27,014 --> 00:29:28,294 I guess you could eat a lot of 780 00:29:28,294 --> 00:29:30,375 junk food too there. Right? They sell that. 781 00:29:30,375 --> 00:29:31,134 But Sure. 782 00:29:31,575 --> 00:29:33,894 I didn't, and I didn't see it as 783 00:29:33,894 --> 00:29:35,034 part of the 784 00:29:35,335 --> 00:29:36,075 of the 785 00:29:36,534 --> 00:29:38,075 of the food of the country. 786 00:29:38,615 --> 00:29:39,115 Yeah. 787 00:29:39,679 --> 00:29:40,179 Yeah. 788 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:41,619 The food was Nice. 789 00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:42,819 Nice. 790 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:43,700 Nice. 791 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:44,559 How was it, 792 00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:47,039 did did you get to walk through, like, 793 00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,519 markets in Istanbul? What what would was what 794 00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:51,599 was that scene like? Yeah. Well, there's, you 795 00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:54,799 know, two very big markets. There's the, spice 796 00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:55,299 market, 797 00:29:55,894 --> 00:29:57,734 and and then there's the, 798 00:29:58,934 --> 00:29:59,994 the Grand Bazaar. 799 00:30:00,934 --> 00:30:02,234 And the Grand Bazaar, 800 00:30:02,615 --> 00:30:05,654 it's enormous. I mean, it's this covered it 801 00:30:05,654 --> 00:30:07,575 started out as a small one, and over 802 00:30:07,575 --> 00:30:09,839 the centuries, it's gotten bigger and bigger. And 803 00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:11,599 it's massive and you can get lost in 804 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:12,660 there. And 805 00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:14,640 I had a little case of, 806 00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:16,259 what is it, agoraphobia 807 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,019 when you've or claustrophobia 808 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,500 when you're in a place that, 809 00:30:21,679 --> 00:30:22,740 is so big. 810 00:30:23,214 --> 00:30:26,254 Agora. Yeah. Mhmm. And I I felt like 811 00:30:26,254 --> 00:30:26,914 I don't 812 00:30:27,375 --> 00:30:29,134 what what would happen if I couldn't find 813 00:30:29,134 --> 00:30:30,974 my way out of this? How do I 814 00:30:30,974 --> 00:30:32,734 how do I get out of here? Because 815 00:30:32,734 --> 00:30:35,694 it's it's it's myriads of little alleyways that 816 00:30:35,694 --> 00:30:38,720 get smaller and smaller and branch out like 817 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,019 spiders into different 818 00:30:40,399 --> 00:30:41,940 different areas, and 819 00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:43,460 it's filled with shops. 820 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:45,940 People are just selling 821 00:30:46,399 --> 00:30:47,859 selling everything. Right? 822 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:50,914 Day to day stuff that is not necessarily 823 00:30:51,054 --> 00:30:53,615 different from what you find anywhere else. I 824 00:30:53,615 --> 00:30:54,974 need a pot. I need a pan. I 825 00:30:54,974 --> 00:30:56,194 need clothes for the kids. 826 00:30:57,534 --> 00:30:59,234 But then, you know, really 827 00:31:00,335 --> 00:31:00,835 magnificent, 828 00:31:02,255 --> 00:31:04,674 original Turkish things like 829 00:31:05,369 --> 00:31:06,589 fantastic rugs. 830 00:31:07,210 --> 00:31:08,509 I can't resist rugs. 831 00:31:08,809 --> 00:31:11,369 I can never have enough rugs, and I 832 00:31:11,369 --> 00:31:13,309 don't mind bargaining. I like bargaining. 833 00:31:13,769 --> 00:31:15,230 So I had a great time. 834 00:31:16,170 --> 00:31:16,670 And, 835 00:31:18,569 --> 00:31:21,654 so there's this Grand Bazaar, which is huge, 836 00:31:22,194 --> 00:31:23,154 and then there's, 837 00:31:23,875 --> 00:31:25,634 and then there's the spice market. But both 838 00:31:25,634 --> 00:31:27,095 of them have become commercialized. 839 00:31:27,875 --> 00:31:30,274 And I found it was much more fun 840 00:31:30,274 --> 00:31:32,434 just to go through some of the the 841 00:31:32,434 --> 00:31:33,335 local markets 842 00:31:33,634 --> 00:31:36,490 because all it was all fresh food, and 843 00:31:36,490 --> 00:31:38,009 you could just buy it and eat it 844 00:31:38,009 --> 00:31:38,750 right there. 845 00:31:39,849 --> 00:31:41,609 And that And the local by the local 846 00:31:41,609 --> 00:31:42,829 markets, do you mean 847 00:31:43,130 --> 00:31:46,890 smaller smaller towns or smaller sections of of 848 00:31:46,890 --> 00:31:47,390 Istanbul 849 00:31:47,929 --> 00:31:50,089 or or what? Where does Well, every every 850 00:31:50,089 --> 00:31:52,125 every town every small town would have its 851 00:31:52,365 --> 00:31:52,865 market 852 00:31:53,785 --> 00:31:56,924 Right. Out usually, at in the big square 853 00:31:56,924 --> 00:31:58,365 in front of the in front of the 854 00:31:58,365 --> 00:31:59,184 big mosque. 855 00:31:59,724 --> 00:32:00,224 But, 856 00:32:01,884 --> 00:32:04,684 but Istanbul too is just like any big 857 00:32:04,684 --> 00:32:07,659 international city. It's just a conglomeration of little 858 00:32:07,659 --> 00:32:10,480 villages that over the years have grown together. 859 00:32:11,259 --> 00:32:12,799 And so each 860 00:32:13,099 --> 00:32:14,880 little village within Istanbul 861 00:32:15,339 --> 00:32:18,399 represents usually a particular group, particular, 862 00:32:18,940 --> 00:32:19,440 ethnicity, 863 00:32:20,755 --> 00:32:21,255 particular 864 00:32:21,795 --> 00:32:23,095 vibe in the neighborhood. 865 00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:26,674 And so the food would always also represent 866 00:32:26,674 --> 00:32:27,174 that. 867 00:32:27,634 --> 00:32:28,134 And, 868 00:32:29,474 --> 00:32:30,934 there were always little markets 869 00:32:31,554 --> 00:32:32,535 throughout Istanbul 870 00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:34,960 as well as these big markets as, you 871 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,599 know, that you could go to. And you 872 00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:39,279 didn't even have to ever sit down in 873 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:41,119 a restaurant and have a meal. You could 874 00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:43,359 just wander through the market and and and 875 00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:45,839 nibble a notch, and that would be fine. 876 00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:47,380 For me, that would be fine. 877 00:32:48,134 --> 00:32:49,975 Yeah. That sounds pretty great. And just the 878 00:32:49,975 --> 00:32:51,894 the smells, all, you know, all the senses 879 00:32:51,894 --> 00:32:52,394 are 880 00:32:52,775 --> 00:32:54,795 being used. That's great. Yeah. Exactly. 881 00:32:55,174 --> 00:32:56,934 And you go you go down to the, 882 00:32:57,894 --> 00:33:00,615 to to where the Golden Horn meets the 883 00:33:00,615 --> 00:33:01,115 Bosporus, 884 00:33:01,909 --> 00:33:02,409 And, 885 00:33:02,869 --> 00:33:04,089 there are these bridges, 886 00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:07,690 and there there there's one particular bridge 887 00:33:08,069 --> 00:33:08,789 that is, 888 00:33:09,589 --> 00:33:12,250 just lined with shops, and they're basically, 889 00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:15,609 fish fish shops and seafood shops. 890 00:33:16,150 --> 00:33:18,105 And you go in there, and 891 00:33:18,644 --> 00:33:19,625 you order 892 00:33:20,804 --> 00:33:23,605 this fish sandwich, I guess you could call 893 00:33:23,605 --> 00:33:26,505 it. It's like a fried white fish, 894 00:33:27,684 --> 00:33:28,184 on 895 00:33:29,444 --> 00:33:31,784 a on a big sliced roll 896 00:33:32,299 --> 00:33:34,700 and with, I think it's kind of I 897 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:35,679 think it's butter. 898 00:33:36,059 --> 00:33:38,779 I'm not quite sure. Anyway, it's delicious. So 899 00:33:38,779 --> 00:33:40,059 I believe this is called the filet o 900 00:33:40,059 --> 00:33:41,660 fish. Is that is that what you're referring 901 00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:43,039 to? I just see one. 902 00:33:44,140 --> 00:33:45,359 Oh, okay. Okay. 903 00:33:45,965 --> 00:33:48,205 And there's this there's this kind of pretzel 904 00:33:48,205 --> 00:33:50,205 that they have. I that's the closest thing 905 00:33:50,205 --> 00:33:51,744 I could call it is a pretzel. 906 00:33:52,045 --> 00:33:52,525 It's, 907 00:33:53,404 --> 00:33:56,465 it's like a rolled dough, and it's cooked, 908 00:33:57,325 --> 00:33:58,465 but there's a, 909 00:33:59,484 --> 00:34:01,960 a brine of, I believe, pomegranate 910 00:34:02,259 --> 00:34:02,759 juice. 911 00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:05,619 I think it may be pomegranate juice that 912 00:34:05,619 --> 00:34:06,980 they that they, 913 00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:08,840 or pomegranate molasses 914 00:34:09,619 --> 00:34:12,019 that it's brined in. Like a glaze almost? 915 00:34:12,019 --> 00:34:14,199 Like a glaze. Yeah. Uh-huh. And, 916 00:34:14,579 --> 00:34:16,739 and you walk through the streets and and 917 00:34:16,739 --> 00:34:18,655 and you you just break off pieces of 918 00:34:18,655 --> 00:34:20,755 it and you eat it. Anyway, the birds 919 00:34:21,135 --> 00:34:21,954 and the seagulls 920 00:34:22,574 --> 00:34:24,414 down at the down at the bridges in 921 00:34:24,414 --> 00:34:24,994 the water, 922 00:34:26,255 --> 00:34:27,934 if you take it on one of the 923 00:34:27,934 --> 00:34:29,855 ferries, and there's, like, a 100,000,000 924 00:34:29,855 --> 00:34:32,909 ferries that cross the waterways in Istanbul all 925 00:34:32,909 --> 00:34:33,650 day long. 926 00:34:34,429 --> 00:34:36,530 The birds will descend on you and 927 00:34:36,909 --> 00:34:39,409 pull the pretzel out of your hand because 928 00:34:39,949 --> 00:34:41,630 they want you know, they figured all the 929 00:34:41,710 --> 00:34:44,269 you know, they they've learned that thousands of 930 00:34:44,269 --> 00:34:46,815 tourists all day long go go on these 931 00:34:46,815 --> 00:34:47,315 boats 932 00:34:47,855 --> 00:34:49,454 and, yeah, they'll take the pretzel out of 933 00:34:49,454 --> 00:34:51,135 hand. You gotta eat fast. They're vulnerable. Yeah. 934 00:34:51,135 --> 00:34:52,514 You can get it from them. Yeah. 935 00:34:54,574 --> 00:34:56,574 It was a great experience. Great a great 936 00:34:56,574 --> 00:34:57,074 city. 937 00:34:58,630 --> 00:35:01,530 Wow. Sounds great. Yeah. That sounds incredible. 938 00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:03,690 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 939 00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:07,030 So I feel like there's probably I mean, 940 00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:08,869 because you you went all over the country. 941 00:35:08,869 --> 00:35:10,389 I feel like there's probably so much more 942 00:35:10,389 --> 00:35:11,829 we could talk about, so maybe we need 943 00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:13,434 to make this a a two parter. I 944 00:35:13,434 --> 00:35:14,795 know we we focus quite a bit on 945 00:35:14,795 --> 00:35:16,315 Istanbul, so maybe, you know, the next part, 946 00:35:16,315 --> 00:35:19,034 we can talk some Istanbul and some more 947 00:35:19,034 --> 00:35:19,855 other places. 948 00:35:20,795 --> 00:35:22,795 Yeah. This is it sounds so how long 949 00:35:22,795 --> 00:35:24,074 were you there in total, Dean? Did you 950 00:35:24,074 --> 00:35:25,050 say? Was it, like, a month? 951 00:35:25,769 --> 00:35:27,929 No. It wasn't that Turkey? No. It wasn't 952 00:35:27,929 --> 00:35:29,550 that long. It was about two weeks. 953 00:35:30,410 --> 00:35:30,910 Okay. 954 00:35:31,690 --> 00:35:33,469 It's nice. Long enough. Weeks. 955 00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:35,869 Right. Sure. Yeah. Sure. 956 00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:37,530 Yeah. Because the in the business, it's a 957 00:35:37,530 --> 00:35:39,864 big country. Yeah. Speaking of not being long 958 00:35:39,864 --> 00:35:42,585 enough, this, this podcast isn't long enough. So, 959 00:35:42,984 --> 00:35:44,585 but we'll we can wrap it up to 960 00:35:44,585 --> 00:35:46,664 pick this up again the next time. That 961 00:35:46,664 --> 00:35:47,404 sound good? 962 00:35:48,744 --> 00:35:50,984 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. Yeah. 963 00:35:50,984 --> 00:35:51,565 Yeah. Yeah. 964 00:35:52,289 --> 00:35:54,230 Nice. Well, we all we can talk about 965 00:35:54,530 --> 00:35:56,690 places that I need to go to that 966 00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:59,570 I haven't been to yet. And Well, sure. 967 00:35:59,650 --> 00:36:01,730 It's wise for me to I would like 968 00:36:01,730 --> 00:36:03,829 to find out if if if our listeners 969 00:36:04,224 --> 00:36:07,025 have a particular place that they need to 970 00:36:07,025 --> 00:36:07,844 hear about. 971 00:36:08,625 --> 00:36:10,065 Maybe I've been there and I can talk 972 00:36:10,065 --> 00:36:11,364 about it. Maybe I haven't 973 00:36:12,065 --> 00:36:13,125 and I should go. 974 00:36:13,585 --> 00:36:15,344 We should all go. The three of us 975 00:36:15,344 --> 00:36:17,570 should go. I'm going right now. Goodbye. 976 00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:22,190 In a way, we're going right now. Yeah. 977 00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:24,610 It's Right. Oh, okay. Alright. It's, 978 00:36:25,390 --> 00:36:27,470 because after all, you know, what we are 979 00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:30,704 doing is, we're talking about a certain aspect 980 00:36:30,704 --> 00:36:32,405 of humans' lives and 981 00:36:32,945 --> 00:36:33,684 that's because, 982 00:36:35,025 --> 00:36:35,525 oops. 983 00:36:35,985 --> 00:36:37,445 Your culture's showing. 984 00:36:47,010 --> 00:36:49,010 Before you run off and disappear back into 985 00:36:49,010 --> 00:36:50,150 your own cultures, 986 00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:52,769 let me give you some information about something 987 00:36:52,769 --> 00:36:54,769 we really want you to know, and that's 988 00:36:54,769 --> 00:36:56,144 how to get hold of 989 00:36:57,025 --> 00:36:59,844 us. Give us your questions, your comments, anything 990 00:36:59,985 --> 00:37:02,164 along those lines by email. 991 00:37:02,465 --> 00:37:02,965 It's 992 00:37:03,344 --> 00:37:06,724 oopscultureshow@gmail.com, 993 00:37:06,945 --> 00:37:09,105 and be sure to follow us on whatever 994 00:37:09,105 --> 00:37:12,250 social media you use at oops culture 995 00:37:12,789 --> 00:37:13,530 show. Thanks.