Happy sixtieth episode. Why?
Yeah. It's our sixtieth episode. 60. Oh, oh,
really? 60? I believe so. Yes. Wow. That's
a lot.
We've we've got it.
We've gone in and out of studio 60
times already. I guess so.
Whew. That is a lot. I guess so.
Well, we actually during COVID, we were we
were out in the, That's true. We were
outside. We were outside. Right? Yeah. Right. Right.
So, technically,
no. But Man, sometimes we were remote. Pretty
early on, we were we're we're we're we're
remote. That's hard to say. That's true. Yeah.
There was remoteness to it. Well, well, happy
sixtieth birthday. Well, thank you. Sixtieth birthday. Well,
thank you. Put
put all those candles on that cake.
I've got 60 right here. Alright. I'll just
be putting them on the cake the entire
episode. It's a little weird. Well, I know
how to get us out of this. Yeah.
Oops.
Your culture show.
60 episodes, and this is my sixth book
coming up. Oh, look at this. Look at
this. We've got sixes all over the place.
Wow.
So so okay. It's coming out soon. Right?
I get it, I think, isn't it? Like
a little more Have you changed the name
of it since the last podcast?
Alright.
Good question. There's always that temptation. And, you
know, while I was writing the book, you're
all I
you're always getting to the point of thinking,
do I is this really what I wanna
say? Or should I say something different? Yep.
Yeah. Yeah. You're always self editing. You're always
sort of, like, judging it again every time
you're making sure. Always a question mark. And
it gets so frustrating that that's the point
at which you know it's time to wrap
the book. Get out. Get out now. Yeah.
Yeah. Just stop. Yeah. Because it's like every
any kind of artistic endeavor
at all, the question always becomes, well, how
do you know when it's done?
And the answer is, you don't. It just
stops. Which is why the publisher very wisely
gives you deadlines. That's right. That's right. I
just I just ran out of time. That's
right. Yep. That's it. The best I could
do in the time I have. Sort of
like life itself. It is. It is. I
appreciate the deadlines.
Foul. So to the title, yes, the title
has remained the same.
However,
was there some doubt?
You bet. Oh, okay. Okay. Sure. Of course.
And what is this title? Yeah. So it's
Business Beyond Borders.
Beyond borders. Triple b. I love that. Stories,
tales, and lessons learned from working in a
100 cultures around the world. Nice. A 100
cultures around the world. A do you have
you have a 100 that you you touch
on? In the book? Yeah.
No. I don't think I'm referencing it from
a 100. But this is pulled from a
100. It's so real wow. That's Pulled from
a 100. Yeah. Sure. Wow. Because I have
worked in over a 100 cultures around the
world. Nice. Wow. And so, you know, I'm
pulling the stories that I think are the
most relevant for the reader Uh-huh. And the
most interesting to me and,
maybe most fun to read as well. Lots
of criteria that I really do think, you
know, we check off all those boxes. Yeah.
Yeah. Nice. And it's storytelling
and that kind of stuff that you're basing
it in. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Stories that have happened to me, and others
that I know Okay. All around the world
and,
that are gonna be useful,
I think, lessons learned for people who are
traveling there Yeah. And certainly doing business there.
So did you steal any stories that happened
to me in around the world?
No. Oh. I didn't never. Okay.
Oh, now he's sad. I'm a little sad.
Is there a story that you'd like to
contribute to the next book, the sequel? Maybe.
Well, I'll keep that in mind. Is it
weird I'm feeling a little bit of joy
from your sadness? Oh, well, I think I
was last that was What? There's there should
be a term for that. There should be.
Yeah. Only. Having a little bit of schadenfreude?
That's oh, that's right. There is a term.
Sure.
The word that's migrated into our language because
it talks about something that we all experience.
But in Germany,
they gave it a word
and we didn't. And what's the reasons for
that difference? That's the interesting part. Because the
Germans are the only ones in the world
who feel joy out of other people's problems.
Sure. No. Yeah. No. Definitely none of us
have ever felt joy. Am I right on
that? I I don't think I am. But
You're totally wrong. Oh, totally wrong. But it
was
fun
to to and I'm I'm not enjoying the
shot in the shot in Freud of Me
being wrong. Yes. Misfortune of you being wrong.
Understood. Uh-huh. No. No. I'm feeling quite a
bit of joy. I'm actually feeling kinda good
for myself being wrong. I don't know. That's
weird. That I don't know about the term
for that. Probably not the same term. Schadenfreude?
So this is part two of a two
parter. So listen to our last episode That's
right. That's right. This is Go back and
do that, and then come back to this
one. There you go. We talk about it.
Or whatever. But we do we do so
backwards. You know, we don't have to came
from the book, the un well, not shutting
for the word, but there was a book
that we all love. We did. Yeah. We
do. Inflatables. Yep. Yep. Christopher Moore. Thank you,
Christopher Moore. Christopher j Moore. Christopher j Moore.
Yes. And can I just jump in here
and and and go back make a connection
to the first book we were talking about,
which is that you can order this book?
And who wrote that book? Dean Foster. Okay.
Business Beyond Borders. Business Beyond Borders. Which might
be you. Is that you? That Samuel. Okay.
Alright. I'm just clarifying because we have not
introduced each other. The answer. Oh.
What do we do? What do we do?
How
about that? Who are we? I have no
idea.
Oh, no. Does anyone know? I'm going to
excuse myself now. Okay. Well, we know the
author is?
I'm here, Dean Foster
and Tom Peterson, my colleague. Thank you. Thank
you. We're talking about this whole interesting notion
of cultural terms that don't exist in some
cultures but do exist in others. And Torin
Peterson Yes. And I'm here too. Hello. Here.
Hello. Our producer, thank you for for being
here and for sharing your wisdom as well.
Oh, I have wisdom. Wisdom? Little bit. We'll
get you credit for a little bit. Very
generous. Very generous. Accurate, but I appreciate it.
This is probably more gratuitous than that. Definitely
gratuitous. We're gonna find a word for that
in there somewhere. I'm sure. Yes. Business Beyond
Borders by Dean Foster. It's available for preorder.
Right? It's Pre yes. Available for preorder right
now in this minute. You can just go
to your favorite place where you buy books
Nice. And preorder it. And it's available in
hardcover and Kindle
and,
what's the other Audio book. Which
you voiced.
Yes. Yes. Read by Dean Foster in the
show. Just a few weeks ago. Mhmm. Yes.
Read by the author. Nice. Nice. And when
is it released? November 4. Ah, yeah. Very
soon. Of 2025.
Well, that's in the call. A month. Yes.
Yeah. As we as you're listening to this,
if you listen to them as soon as
we release them, because I'm sure you do,
then it's coming up in
a few weeks. That was that's not a
threat. If it is after 11/04/2025,
then it's out there right now. Go get
it. Yes. Exactly. Right. What have you been
doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing great.
Look at it. And if you're so inspired,
write a review because we all need to
know and the publisher needs to know. And
I would like to know what was most
meaningful for you,
what what you enjoyed.
And,
if you don't have anything kind to say,
then please don't write.
Keep it to yourself. Thank you. Well I
look forward to reading it, and and I
I probably read and listen to it. I'll
do all the above. All of it. Wow.
Get it on the Kindle. Get the audio.
The hearts. All all the Man. Are we
looking at paper paperback at any point? Yes.
That will be full forthcoming after the initial
release. Sure. I'm getting them all. Okay.
Well, that's a little weird. That's a little
weird. Yeah. Yeah. That's good stuff. Okay. It
is. Right? I'm sure it is good stuff.
Stories, and they're they're top notch. Yeah. Mister
mister president of the fan club. Thank you.
Jeez. I've got the oldest fag.
We'll talk about the swag. We've got the
t shirt to them. We're working on the
swag. Yeah.
Nice. That's very exciting. Thank you very much,
gentlemen. Back to mister Moore. Congratulations on that.
Thank you. Yes. Let's talk about mister Moore
now with the untranslatables.
Alright. Very fascinating book Yeah. From which we've
got this idea of talking about
different cultural concepts that may or may not
exist in different cultures.
Right. Right. Right. And and I think and
I think we'd spoke a little bit in
the last episode about the idea that this
is a these are human experiences. So these
are not
not necessarily result. Yeah. Right. So that if
that you have them, you're part of it.
But
we we were mentioning maybe one of the
reasons that some cultures have
specific terms for these types of things and
others don't.
And what is that? And it could be
that they recognize it more often. It's a
priority for some reason. For some reason. Yes.
And that's a culture. Sure. Right. So that's
where I get fascinated by this. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Yeah. Okay. And, like, with schadenfreude, you know,
there could be I think in US culture,
it's maybe fair to say that there might
be feelings of guilt or shame around schadenfreude.
So we don't we don't talk about that
as much as opposed to, no. We're gonna
just I'm not supposed to feel good at
somebody else's expense. Right. And that's what schadenfreude
Friday is. Which which is sounds very admirable,
but to the point of denying
it. Or Yeah. What is that about? Or
feeling bad about feeling good about somebody's misfortune.
Yeah. It's gets complicated. Feeling bad about feeling
good about somebody's misfortune. Right? And it and
like we talked about last episode, it's interesting
that it has become more known in US
American culture. I'm thinking, It has. Definitely. Yes.
Is
a term that I only really learned about
in the last ten years or so. Mhmm.
And I don't hear it a lot, but
I've definitely heard it out there in English.
There's been articles written about it. There are
people who who pay attention to it quite
a bit now. And that's a word that's
in the book. It's it's Sure. Finnish word.
And then I should just note, there's other
words in the book that we have talked
about at at length, like Yes. Lagom.
Lagom. Which is Swedish term. And Yeah. Yeah.
Wabi Sabi came up in our IKIGAI. Which
is just too much fun to say right
there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was a
few episodes ago with Wabi Sabi and and
the IKIGAI guy episode. Right. So we're not
gonna talk about those because we already have.
Sure. Sure. But there are other words that,
we haven't talked about yet that are quite
fascinating. Yeah.
And there was this aspect of of
of of schadenfreude
that had a stickiness to it. So I
think it allowed the word to migrate into
English easily. Yeah. Not quite sure what what
the essence of that stickiness is, but it
does work, you know. It does work. Be
a linguist to tell us that. Yeah. Yes.
Maybe the the the connection between the German
language and the English language. I Yeah. And
there's quite a bit of connection. Yes. Quite
a bit.
But then I so so I'm thinking, okay.
What what cultural concept described by a foreign
word
doesn't have that same kind of stickiness and
therefore
might
might not allow it to migrate so easily.
I think I I think that's an important
part of that is going to be how
easily we can maybe pronounce it. Exactly. Right.
Yeah. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Immediately go to
either Asian languages or French. Sure. Right? Because
for an English speaker, French can be difficult,
I think, in in terms of pronunciation. To
to to pronounce it in any way that
someone from France would understand what you're saying.
Yes. And there was this, it's it's referenced
in in the untranslatables,
this marvelous French concept Uh-huh. For which they
have a word or at least a term
Okay.
Esprit de l'escalier.
It's it's more like a phrase than yeah.
Yeah. The spirit of going down the stairs.
Stairs. Okay. Sure. Stairs. Right? Yeah. I'm assuming
it's not a phobia of walking downstairs. No.
It is. And it's describing this concept which
we can understand,
but we have no word for it in
English, and we have no no no term
for it in English. Mhmm. In French, it
means
it's when you realize
after having left the dinner party Mhmm. That
there was something you really should have said
in the moment,
but you didn't have the words for it.
And as you're walking down the stairs after
the door closes behind you,
it comes to you. You have that
moment. Uh-huh. Yeah. I really should've said that
was that witty remark I was looking for
in the right way.
But that, you know, there was just too
much Beaujolais at the table, and I couldn't
come up with it at the time. Right.
I mean, that's so incredibly relatable. It's like,
yeah. I feel that way all the time.
It's a it it it's very much a,
someone who's, well, maybe I'm gonna put it
on teenagers, but I will say it may
be at any age. Especially then. Especially then.
Definitely. It's it's your teenage life. I mean,
that really was just constant. Right. Oh, absolutely.
Why didn't I say that? Oh, yeah. That
would've been so much better. It was the
wrong thing. Oh, it should yeah. And and
but even through pretty much for the rest
of your life, at any time when
you're still when you're with someone you truly
wish to to impress Right. That's what's in
some form. Yeah. I think it's almost impossible
to not suffer from this. Right. Just the
whole idea of, I think, being witty about
something Yeah.
About being in engaging your intellect to play
on to play with words, to play with
concepts, to play with ideas
so that it comes out as,
something that's entertaining that people will enjoy.
This is uniquely French.
Yeah. That was gonna be my question is
what so why do we think the French
have this term and we don't have this
term even though clearly it's a universal thing.
Yeah. It be it's important in French culture
to display
the,
creativity of your mind. Okay. And it's a
priority. Uh-huh.
Right. And the ability to do that quickly
and and in a wonderful way, in a
in in a charming way, in an entertaining
way Not a show off way. Right. No.
You don't do it in a show off
way. You're kind of you're kind of just
in Well, the best way your remarks, you
just sort of throw off. Right? Exactly. Yeah.
En natural. En natural.
You just drop it in. Yes. We're we're
making motions of what we are. We're throwing
it off. We're rubbing our hands. Yes. That's
the drop in motion. That's right. Yes. Yeah.
Okay. There it is. Uh-huh. Just by then.
There it is. How witty. Aren't I witty
and and intelligent? And that's what you dream
of after you walked away. You walked down
the stairs going, but if only that happens.
Right. This is when you kick yourself or
you hit you hit your head with your
hand. Yeah. Right. Oh, man. I wish I
had thought of that. Right. It's that opposite
of the of the time when you made
that that witty phrase and the entire group
of people you were talking to stared at
you for. Oh, yeah. Well, that's what actually
happens. And nothing happened. That's a reality. Right.
Yeah. That's connected
to another French phrase that you just made
me think of. Oh. Okay. Yeah. Oftentimes
at the dinner table or at the dinner
party. Uh-huh. Yes. Sure. It's in French, it's
referred to as, the moment of.
Ange pass. Ange pass? Yes. When an angel
passes
across the table. Okay. Oh, when there's a
but is that that or is that that
just when everybody just sits there and no
one has anything to say? We have that
that's the point. Uh-huh. We in English, we
don't have a word that defines that phenomenon.
No. But in French, we do. Yeah. Interesting.
Oh, I see what you're saying. Yes. Yes.
So that's Okay. That's fine. But it's not
driven by the person who would like me
who have many times in my life managed
to say something that I thought was going
to be just wonderful. Mhmm. And the entire
group looked at me like, what are you
talking about? Yeah. It's slightly different. Yes. Because
this is just a moment where no one
has anything to add. Right.
As opposed to an. Right. Okay. Yeah.
Right. Right. Yeah. I just think I emphasized
that they're bonmart. Yeah. Because bonmart. Yeah.
Because you were trying
with the bon mau
to do something entertaining and waiting until I
sure was trying. Oh, yes. Interesting. It didn't
happen. It didn't work. No. Yeah. No. So
that's the silence. That wasn't the sigh yes.
That's not After a remark. After yeah. That's
the sign of Crickets. Okay. So we kind
of a term for that. I guess. Crickets.
Yeah. Yeah. But For that. Yeah. Yeah. But
it also for the thing after the facts.
No. Which is not really interested. There's a
in The United States, there's a memory among
certain people. There's a memory of the Algonquin
round table Mhmm. Where these very witty writers
mainly, but but other people used to meet,
at the Algonquin Hotel in New York That's
right. Regularly.
Sort of as a club, it was kind
of unofficial, I believe, but they nevertheless, they
were there all the time. And these were
people who were very smart and very quick
and very witty. Right. And they would and
and basically, while they were there at that
table That's what it was about. That was
the game. Yeah. That was the total game.
The balls. Yeah. And and that's that can
be very hard for people. I mean, to
if you're around that without That would strike
many, I think, in The US culture as
elitist. Elitist. Right. And, unfortunately,
that attitude can be that there's a negative
aspect to it. Yes. Oh, sure. And as
opposed to saying, well, good for you. Yeah.
You know?
Precisely. Yeah. Right. I think to your point,
Tom, and thanks for bringing that up, it
really illustrates
the fact that all cultures have this tension
between these things. Yeah. Oh, sure. Just some
less with a more defined
priority on one side and some more, you
know, with less less defined priority.
I mean, in The US, there is this
very powerful stream of of anti intellectualism.
Yes. Right? And it's always been there. And
every now and then, it gets tapped and
becomes
Yeah. Very influential. When was the last time
that happened, Dean? Exactly.
Like, maybe now.
Now.
So if you go to other cultures that
are completely different that are not necessarily anti
intellectual or
or not even individualistic,
then you see some really different kinds of
behaviors that and words for those behaviors that
we don't have
in our culture. Okay. Sure. I'm thinking,
in let's go to Asia. I'm thinking of
in China, and and again, Christopher Moore raises
this term in his book.
He's talking about the very, very powerful
concept
of Guanxi.
Guanxi. Guanxi. Guanxi. Okay. Mandarin.
Okay.
Probably not pronouncing it as best I should.
I think the transliteration
for that is g U A
N x I. X I? Right. Guanshi. Guanshi.
Guanshi. Guanshi. Guanshi. Guanshi. Guanshi.
Guanshi could be simplified into one word almost,
obligations.
Obligations
toward? The obligations that individuals
have toward one another.
Oh. And now, again, universal. We all have
this. Well, we all have them kinda based
in our yes.
We we just all have certain levels of
obligations. But Guanche
has been so powerful and so it's such
a fundamental
aspect of Chinese culture
for so long. We're talking about five thousand
years. Mhmm. Deeply ingrained. Deeply, deeply ingrained.
And while there's less of it today and
certainly,
the government has made real efforts to try
to minimize
Oh. The impact of Guanchi.
It's a very, very long struggle. So this
is
a one on one person to person type
of obligation.
Yes. So basically,
back in the day, going back 5,000
Yeah. Think about what the world was like
then. No. I remember it well. I'm sure
you do.
Sorry. I couldn't help it. Before there was
currency, before there was regulations,
before there was communication, before you know, where
everybody was basically a farmer and and and
but living with each other, there was certain
urban life as well. Yep. The idea that
in order to get anything done Mhmm.
I'm gonna do for you, and therefore, you're
gonna do something for me.
So social contract. So it's kinda Sure. So
the beginning of a social contract, but or
you could say, you know, I scratch your
back, you scratch mine. Sure. Yeah. But here's
the difference. Favors.
Yeah. That's why. So powerful because there wasn't
anything else you could rely on. Right. It's
currency. It became currency. Literally currency before there
was currency. Kind of a bartering of favors.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it didn't I like
that. Bartering of favors may be my next
book. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it didn't have
to be
you did this, so I'll do this for
you. No. It was you did this for
me, so I'll do that for you.
In other words,
it wasn't I'm doing the same thing back
to you. Oh. It's whatever you need me
to do, I will do because when I
needed you to do something for me, you
did.
Okay. A favor. So You know, I there
yeah. I do I do recall. I actually
I was we were talking about something about
this. So it's it's hold you just for
a second. I'm holding. It's not tit for
it's not tit for tit. It's tit for
tat. Oh. Oh.
Oh.
You can quote about that. I really you
know, right there is where he said that's
when I'm gonna be going down the stairs
and I'm gonna go, oh, I should've said
that. That was great.
I I had to say because I didn't
want it to be in esprit de the
desiccaille pour moi.
People are going, did he say it's not
tit for tit? Yeah. Yeah. I think so.
Yes. He did. He did say that.
Sorry.
Yeah. Well, you know, that would be okay
too. I mean
Boo how. Boo how.
Not good.
Not good. No. Mandarin. Not good. Okay. Well,
you Is there
a You define good your way. I'll define
it. I liked it. I liked it. I'm
sorry. You were about to say something. I
have no idea. Who knows?
So but it's not a it's not a
climbing thing. It's not like, if I give
you this, then if if you gave me
this or you did this for me, now
I have to do even more for you.
No. You have to do showing up. Equal.
It has to be the same. Okay. It
could be more. But you owe that person
and is there a time where that expires?
Never. Never. Okay. Okay. There is not a
forgiveness of it at any time. It becomes
a tally sheet, an accounting sheet. Really? Life's
accounting sheet Sure. With whomever you're doing business
with or have any kind of activity with
Uh-huh. Any kind of life life reason to
to be with each other.
And it becomes
because you
you did this for me, now I need
something.
And it might not be the same thing
that I did for you,
but you're gonna have to. You're obligated
now to do what I need
this time. It's going to be considered it
it's gotta be considered a an actual,
trade off of a say of a certain
level. The lifetime piece is real. The value
has to be equal, at least equal,
but it doesn't have to be the same
thing.
So if you came to me and needed
to borrow money,
and next time I needed something,
I would never ask, you know, ask for
it back, but you're obligated now to do
whatever it is that I need you to
do. And it may not be borrowing money.
Maybe something else. Sure.
And but it has to be equally important.
Yeah. Yes. And and and can be valuable.
Okay. So so to me, that lifetime element
really takes it up enough. That's interesting. Yeah.
I'm just I'm I'm And and the giving
of the gifts also Yeah. You know, works
in
both ways because
we might
say something
with the intent, we being westerners Yeah. With
the intent of
giving a compliment
in China.
Mhmm. And so,
if I were invited to someone's home, let's
say, and I was sitting and I noticed
in in the room, there was a beautiful,
Chinese vase in the corner. Mhmm.
And I admire it, and I voice my
admiration.
And I say, oh, that's a beautiful vase
in the corner.
That vase might show up in a bag
at the end of the dinner table Sure.
At with the insistence that I take it.
Mhmm. And then I open the bag
when I get home and I realize it's
the vase.
Mhmm.
And what this has done
is it is it has made one sheet.
You're right. Now you have the obligation.
I have the ongoing process.
Right. Sure. Wow. Right. Well, and it's I'm
I'm gonna read some words from Christopher Moore
on the untranslatables.
Christopher writes a sentence that maybe because of
this unspoken obligation that exists, people people often
try to refuse gifts because sooner or later,
they may have to repay the debt. So
they're trying not to get in, it sounds
like. Yeah. Exact
exactly. The other element of Guanche that I
think is really important to understand is that
it is obligations
and traditionally, historically,
has been obligations at the exclusion
of so many other things.
In other words, the obligation
is what takes priority above Oh. Everything else.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the the struggle
in,
historically that China has had to institute a
to create a society of rules and laws
Yeah. And,
and processes that can be depended upon by
everybody Mhmm.
Is really the story of overcoming
the
obligations that existed before
that in the in the older days
between individuals.
That's gotta be incredibly hard. Incredibly
hard. Yeah. And that these Guang Xi based
obligations
take priority
above everything Yeah.
Including government fiat.
So Beijing says this is the way things
are gonna be done in China around x
y z, whatever it is, but but
but everywhere else in Shanghai and Guangzhou and
and and and some little village in in
Xinjiang,
Everybody's doing it differently because they've got these
personal obligations
Yeah. That is this essence and the fundamental
basis of everyday life. Right. Interesting. Independent of
these rules that are coming from Beijing 3,000
miles away. Right. Right.
Okay. So that's a that's a term that's
coming out of a collectivism,
it sounds like, with there's an exclusionary element
as part of that. And I think there's
another term in the book.
Well, you'll you'll tell us what it was.
I'm forgetting right now. But, that also was
tied into a collectivist culture that maybe was
more inclusionary,
I think, if I'm if I'm thinking of
right now. Good way to phrase it. I
think. Is it? Oh, good. I think so.
Are you referring to Ubuntu? Oh, that's it.
Yeah. Ubuntu. Yeah. Now we're going to South
Africa.
Okay.
And not just the Republic Of South Africa,
but other nations in South Southern Africa. Of
South Africa as well. Uh-huh.
Ubuntu really talks about but it is it
was it was seized upon by Desmond Tutu
in the Republic Of South Africa
in an effort to try to unite
all the the very disparate people of the
rainbow nation. Oh, yes. Right? Yeah. Okay. But
it's based on this
preexisting
South African notion, cultural notion of
no individual
exists
without the group of which they are a
member.
You cannot even you don't even have an
individual identity.
You are the group.
You are a piece of the group and
lead the group. The group
your membership in the group is what gives
you your identity.
Sure. Now it doesn't mean you don't have
individual personality
and and all of that,
but it does mean that in order to
function in life Yeah.
You must first
take into consideration
the fact that you are
what you say, what you do is all
the result of
your membership in this larger group of other
human beings. Okay. Okay. And I'm I'm looking
again in Christopher Moore's book here, and I
we should mention I don't know if we
did. Like, one, she is Mandarin from the
Mandarin language. Right. Buntu from the Bantu language,
and it comes from a Zulu phrase, meaning
a person is a person only through other
people. Right. Right. Does that make perfect sense,
Claudia, what you're saying? And and I you
know,
to say that phrase to, let's say, a
US American Mhmm.
Almost sounds
impossible.
And ridiculous. Like
like Almost, you know, to the well, why
would I be that way? Why? Because of
the independent
person concept
in in The US. Whether that's true or
a myth is another story that we've talked
about in previous podcasts. But
but it's a but nevertheless, absolutely, that's how
they're gonna look at it. And yet and
yet
what do we do? We join groups Well,
right. And we identify with those groups. I
will say for me personally, when I hear
that, as a US American myself,
I feel two things going on at the
same time when I'm thinking about Ubuntu.
Right? I'm feeling
that I wanna
almost rebel against that idea of a person
is a person only through other people. Right?
There's that element of, like, no. I'm an
individual.
And then another part of me that goes,
oh, this concept of common humanity and we're
all one, that's very appealing. Right? So, yeah,
both are both are happening. Yeah. I think
US Americans can identify with the idea, but
very hard to
translate and implement into day to day life
because we're rewarded for individual
decision making
and
individualism.
Maybe it becomes the difference or the importance
of this idea comes clearer when
I think about some of the experiences
that
I've heard
from folks who are trying to, let's say,
do business in South Africa or in in
just about anywhere in Africa Yeah. Because this
concept
is is pretty universal and very strong throughout
the continent.
But it is from the from the South
African Southern African region.
The idea that
just because
you come with an with something of value
to someone
doesn't mean that you're gonna be able to
do what you wanna do unless
unless there's a role for everybody
in it.
Okay.
And every so the whole village,
starting with the village always,
the whole village has to be taken care
of. Mhmm. And the the and all of
the villages that are part of the larger
tribe need to be taken care of, and
all of the tribes within the larger nation
have to be taken care of.
And that's what determines
your ability to do what you wanna do.
Mhmm.
Mhmm. See, again, when you say that, I'm
going, that sounds lovely,
and I don't, you know, that's hard to
imagine,
you know, really actualizing
in my life. Right? Where
every every you know, everyone's being taken care
of. Well, it's just the the idea. It's
almost the opposite in The US where
let's target
who's gonna benefit from this. So again, in
group, out group. And yeah. That's who you're
in group, out group. And and just
just focus on that because
the more focused you can be to your
demo or to your in group Right. Or
to or to your audience,
the more success you're gonna have. Right. It's
getting Gee, that sounds polarizing, doesn't it?
Yeah. You know?
I've I've have we ever had that experience
in this country? Never.
Never. Wow. No. That's very interesting. Very interesting.
Yeah. And so I think, you know, you
have a word for it in South Africa,
and we don't have a word for it.
Right. Not really. We don't. Nope. Nope. And
it's interesting. I I will say I worked
for many years ago now, maybe ten or
more years ago now. I worked for an
organization where Ubuntu was cited as
one of the values of the organization. And
again so again, it was cited as this
is we aspire to this. Right? That's really
the only time I've come across it in
in a US culture. And was it and
it was a US American organization? Yeah. They're
gonna really have a struggle trying to find
a way to implement that. Yeah.
Because nothing about that really fundamentally, I think,
is valued.
Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Well,
that on that cheering note There's always yeah.
Things you know, that it's like with the
witty remark. It's like you want you walk
away and you
wanna change it. That wasn't the bon mot
I was reaching for.
Well, don't trip on your way down the
stairs. Alright. That's the that's the key here.
I've already tripped down the stairs.
Very interesting.
Very interesting. Alright. Well, thank you. That was,
great. And by the way, thank you, Christopher
j Moore. We I think we might,
look for more of that book.
Wordplay.
And if you want more wonderful wordplay, in
addition to this podcast, read Dean's book. Dean's
book. This is the author's November 4. November
4. Have not 2025,
if you have not or this is after
that,
get your little tush out there. Just get
it. Yeah. What's it named again, Dean?
Business Beyond Borders,
Stories, Tales, and Lessons Learned from Working in
a 100 Cultures Around the World. Great.
And, you know, book form, ebook.
Audio. Kindle. Audio. Yep. Kindle. Do it all
at once. Play the audio while you're reading
it. Yep. Right. Absolutely. Whatever whatever makes it.
And listen, I as we've said, if you're
listening to this, you gotta eat this book
up. Oh, yeah. Because because, you know, I
think you'll love this, so you're gonna love
it. Absolutely. And you're gonna be listening to
me rattle on and rattle on and rattle
on. You know?
We know that's your thing.
There he go. He has left the building.
Well, he just floated away.
Like an angel. An orange pot. Passing over.
Yes.
We
well, I don't know about that. Okay. Well,
not a Stretching the definition of angel. Definitely.
Oh, culture of hell is that in the
civil war? Yes. Oh, the Passover. Yeah. Oh,
yeah.
Mark the door. The angel of death. Yes.
Alright. There you go.
Well, thank you, Dean Foster. Thank you, Tom
Peterson. And thank you, Torin. Thank you both.
For your work today. And thank you, dear
listener. And,
we hope you've learned something because,
after all,
oops.
Your culture's showing.
Smell you.
Before you run off and disappear back into
your own cultures,
let me give you some information about something
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Give us your questions, your comments, anything along
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Thanks.