You sneezed, Tor, and Yeah. That reminded me
that, you know, we all automatically,
in this room anyway, say
Right.
Salud. Uh-huh.
God bless you. Mhmm. Right? So in Western
cultures, there's this thing about if somebody sneezes,
you say something to, like, get rid of
the
the bad health that that might represent in
some way. The salute is health. Health. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. But
is that universal? Are there other cultures where
we do the same thing? I can think
of a bunch of cultures where nobody says
anything. Yet everybody, the human condition, is that
we all sneeze. Yeah. Many animals sneeze. And
that's such a metaphor for what culture does.
You know, we're all capable of all of
the human behaviors that we talk about in
this show all the time. Yeah. Everybody's capable
of it, and everybody
displays these things at some point.
But does our culture
reward us for it?
Does our culture
emphasize it? Is it important in our culture?
And that's where culture
starts to have a real effect. And I'm
guessing that really influences language and what words
are created and used regularly versus words that
maybe just don't come up or don't even
have there's not really a word for that
concept in that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And and
and and I think that's a fascinating thing.
We were gonna talk we're gonna talk about
that Oh, okay. Today? Yes. Today. Because this
is
Oops. Oops. Your culture
show. You're Dean Foster. Oh, I am Dean
thank you. Thank you. I am Dean Foster.
You are.
And I'm Tom Peterson.
Right. Hi, Tom Peterson. Yes. I'm Dean Foster.
And and Torin's with us here. I'm Torin.
Hi. I'm our illustrious producer. Always good to
have you in studio. Yes. Thank you. You
as well. Both of you.
And all of you listening at home. Okay.
They're not in the studio. What am I
talking about? Now I'm nauseous.
Now we're selling Pepsi then.
But
I'm interrupting this, podcast right here.
And, I'm interrupting it because,
I'm
proud to to announce that that my
good friend and accomplished,
the accomplished
co host of this podcast
is just finished writing and doing the audio
portion of a brand new book. Ah, Tom.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that.
I'm I'm glad to be able to talk
about it. Good. Well, let's talk about it
a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. So what
the heck is this book, and why are
you writing it? Yeah. Okay. That is a
really good question.
And I through going through the entire process
of writing a book,
that is the ultimate question that's always out
there. At least it was in my mind.
You know, why are we doing this? What
is the the reason for the book? For
me,
this was the,
this was gonna be my sixth book, and
all my books have had to do with
culture.
My first book, Bargaining Across Borders, was about
how cultures
change the negotiation process. So when you're doing
business and negotiating business
in different cultures,
you're gonna have to do it differently
in order to be successful.
And then my other the the follow-up four
books were the global etiquette guides. There's a
global etiquette guide to
Asia, global etiquette guide to,
Africa and The Middle East, a global etiquette
guide to Europe, and a global etiquette guide
to Latin America.
And in each book, these were kinda like
how to, dos, and don'ts,
the things you need to know about when
you do business in countries in these different
regions.
And it's gonna be different in every country.
So we try to cover as many of
the important topics
in a kind of dos and don'ts kind
of way.
When you're doing when you're
doing running meetings in China, do it this
way. But in the other book, it'll tell
you if you're running that same meeting in
Brazil, it's gotta be done a little bit
differently. Yeah. Super important. So what the heck?
Why So why do we need another book?
And, you know, when because I'm already tired
listening to you. So I went I went
to my agent. I said, I gotta write
another book. Okay. I I wanna write another
book. It's been a while. It's been too
long, actually Yeah. Since I had my last
book out.
And we're talking about a span of twenty
five years
Really?
From the first book to now. Oh, I
see. Sure. And yeah. So
so I needed a new book. I mean,
just from a business perspective, I needed to
be saying something new and different Right. Because
the whole
yeah. Because the whole field of culture has
changed. The nature of understanding culture,
when attempting to do business in other countries
is different.
And, fundamentally,
I felt like
I wasn't gonna be repeating what I wanted
what I've already said. And when I said
that to my agent about, like, let's let's
do another book,
she said to me the logical thing. She
said, well, you've said everything that needs to
be said. So you're in competition with yourself.
Right. Exactly. And
unless you come up with something else about
culture, you've already said it. Yeah. And, of
course, she was right, and and she threw
the challenge down at me. And my first
reaction to that was,
well,
I did not, in my first books, talk
about all of the wonderful stories that have
happened to me over the last thirty five
years. Sure. Yeah. When I do a presentation,
I use those stories. Yeah. Because
because I love telling stories, and people love
to hear stories. And I think the only
way you really learn
is through stories. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. You can
you can read a do or a don't
Yep. A a rule,
you know, a recommendation,
but it's not the same thing as hearing
about somebody's experience
and what they learned from it. Right. That
really resonates. Yeah. And
I've never really written that down
on paper.
It's not really in my books. It's in
my presentations. I stand up and I do
a keynote, and I talk about this. And
in this podcast. Yeah. And in this podcast,
thank you very much. Right. Exactly.
And that's where real learning takes place, I
think. It does. Or at least it's a
start for real learning. Yeah. It's also much
more fun. Right. That's probably one of the
reasons why easier for people to absorb
and and relate to when it's in a
story form. Exactly. So I said, I don't
wanna write I'm not looking to write another
how to book,
or be in competition with what I've already
said. Mhmm. I do wanna tell my stories.
And then I thought more about it, and
I realized also that because
the whole idea of working with culture has
changed over these the last thirty five years
since I've been doing this work,
I have to talk about it differently. The
world is different now from the way it
was when I first wrote those books. Okay.
There's a question of validity, first of all.
If what I said about Brazil
thirty years ago,
it's logical to say, wait a minute. Is
that still correct?
Sure. You know? Brazil's changed. Mhmm. What we
said about China
and Chinese culture and the things you needed
to know if you were doing business in
China, the China of thirty years ago Right.
Is very different today. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So
if the at the very least, we gotta
go back to these books and update some
of this information, make sure they're valid.
Talk about culture in a way where,
it we're dealing with it in the present
world, which is now a global world. Mhmm.
As opposed to the way we were dealing
with it or at least I was dealing
with it then in my previous books, which
was we were writing about culture in a
world that was becoming global but had not
yet gotten there. Yeah. Right?
So Ahmed in Saudi, for example. Right? He
grows up.
He's Saudi. He knows how to do business
in Saudi Arabia.
Everything about him, it it works. Right? And
and in Saudi Arabia.
But he's also spent his summers at his
daddy's
house in London.
He's gone to,
UCLA for his master's degree. Mhmm. Right? And
he's got a job now working,
in Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia for a global
company. Right. Mhmm. Right? So this is the
person now,
the Saudi of today Yeah. That we're gonna
be doing business with.
So can we say that the things that
we said about working in Saudi culture thirty
five years ago are valid for Ahmed?
Mhmm. Absolutely not. No. We can't. Right? Yeah.
It's completely different. Yep. And and that means
that we also have to understand that what
we said back then about culture was not
a predictor
of individual behavior because Ahmed's gonna behave very
differently
when he's with a a Saudi colleague than
when he's with you and me. Sure. Yeah.
Two two Westerners.
Absolutely. Right? Yes. Because he's capable of that.
He knows the he knows the rules. He
can he can do the switch.
And so that means that I have to
understand that working in the global world now
is different. Mhmm. Yeah. And I can't save
it just because I understand Russian culture. Therefore,
all Russians are gonna behave a b c.
Sure. It's not valid anymore. Sure. But understanding
the basis
and the impact that Russian culture has on
my Russian colleagues,
definitely still important. Mhmm. So there are lots
of reasons why I needed to write this
book. Okay. I wanted to tell stories, and
I wanted to talk about culture from a
the world now being global as opposed to
the world then, which was becoming global. Mhmm.
Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. It
really does. Yeah. So I sat down and
started to write a book. Okay.
And And you got there. Yeah. And I
started to think, okay. So I wanna do
stories.
What kind of stories will tell all of
that? Yeah.
And some of my stories told them better
than others. Some of my stories, I I
were like, I I wanna write I wanna
tell the story that was relevant
to,
most people who are reading the book.
So some stories that were, I think,
funny for me or useful or important for
me,
Maybe they weren't really that
gonna be that important to the reader. Right.
Okay.
So they got put on the shelf. Mhmm.
And maybe that'll be in the second edition.
Mhmm. You know? Or the next Okay. Well,
a little tease there for a follow-up.
Yeah. Thursday. Yeah.
So, so I had to sort through which
stories are gonna be useful here. Yeah. And
as I sorted through my stories, I found
myself gravitating
to the stories that that had that worked
with the smallest nugget of culture
and were able to
illustrate
the biggest impact that culture has. Uh-huh. Okay.
And a lot of those stories,
a lot of them had a business element
to them, but many of them were as
simple as
what I remember
my first story in the book, which became
chapter one, is about walking into the dining
room in Pondicherry, India
for breakfast one morning
and ordering
a croissant.
Yeah. And
the implication that that has and I don't
wanna give it away now. No. Right? No.
No. No. No. Because you gotta go out
and buy the book. Okay.
But the implication that that has for anybody
doing business in India
Sure.
Trying to order a Western
dish
in a
French influenced city
in India
and having to take into all those considerations
Yeah. Of how India's changed and Yeah. How
the fundamentals of Indian culture are still there.
However, what does this mean for you doing
business there? Right. Mhmm. Right. And I found
myself gravitating to those kinds of small stories
because I think Nice. These kinds of events
happen far more frequently in most people's lives.
Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Definitely. You know, we all
live for the big story, and every now
and then, the big story happens.
But
most of the time, we can find these
influences of culture in
every in just the smallest of details. I
think there's an important aspect to that in
that people with the big stories.
People
may recognize them, may remember them, if they
have any familiarity with, in your case, a
different culture at all. They may see that,
but they are not necessarily
taking real part in that. Right. They were
an observer of those stories. But And yet
in their lives,
there's all these smaller stories like you're talking
about where they are participants. If you go
to India and check into a hotel, there's
likelihood that you might be able to order
a croissant for breakfast and there are things
you need to know about what's gonna happen.
Definitely.
Yeah. It's much more likely you're going to
do that than many of the other big
stories we could really make. Exactly. And so
the stories are are often around small events
Yeah. With big implications.
Nice. Okay. Okay. So then we were thinking
about a title. What do we call this
this this book?
And and it was,
well,
the I have to say, titles are are
are difficult things, not so much to come
up with for me anyway. I can come
up with a whole bunch of different possibilities,
but they're difficult thing difficult pieces to get
the publishers to agree on.
Because the author's version of what the book
should be Mhmm. Is often very different from
what the publisher's
goals are. Mhmm. The publisher wants to sell
books. Mhmm. Right? And thank God for that.
Yeah. Yeah. Because that's their job. Make you
them. Make it sneaky. Yeah. Yeah.
So they wanna know what shelf do do
people
what shelf will people go to if they
want this book? Where do we put this
book Right. In the Okay. In the bookstore.
Whether it's audience we're we're looking to we're
targeting. Right. Yeah. Whether it's a physical bookstore
or whether it's a virtual. Right? Yeah.
So the publishers definitely wanted another business book.
But, they were very intrigued about the idea
of stories Yeah. And storytelling.
And they liked my first book's title was
Bargaining Across Borders Okay. Which, by the way,
it said what the book was about. It's
about negotiating across cultures,
bargaining across borders. But for another reason, I
never really liked that title, honestly. Okay.
Because I felt that using the word bargaining
to as a replacement for negotiating
Yeah. Limited
the whole concept of negotiating, and
and I felt that it kind
of cheapened it a little bit. Yeah.
It had kind of a pseudo alliteration to
it, though. Well, the alliteration is what they
like, because then I was trying to come
up with a similar type
alliteration for a different for a a newer
title with the word negotiating.
And I couldn't find that. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah.
Negotiating across
blah, what? Right? So I kept falling back
to what the publisher wanted, which was Bargaining
Across Borders, but it never was a 100%
satisfactory for me. But
my new publisher was saying, but that was
a good title. It said what the book
was. You know? It did its job. Yes.
So we came up with the title
Business
Beyond Borders. Oh, nice. Now we're talking alliteration
here. So lots of alliteration.
And
we're talking about culture today in the already
global world. Yeah. Sure. Not across borders, which
which has a set which talks a little
bit about
developing
global, right,
global perspectives.
But business beyond borders is that, hey. The
world is already Yeah. We've gone beyond them.
Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And now
so the title is Business Beyond Borders,
and the subtitle is Stories,
Tales, and Lessons Learned
from Working in a 100 Cultures Around the
World. Wow. Okay. Great. That sounds great. And
the publisher said,
yes. That's it.
Yeah. As they should. Yeah. Yes. So we
we we pulled all that together,
and then I got real excited about writing
this book. And I I sorted through my
stories and,
basically
made each story
representative of some important cultural concept
that if you're gonna do business in this
country, you really need to know about. But
even if you're just gonna travel there. Yeah.
Or even if you're just on a day
to day basis communicating with people from this
country. Because, again, back when the first books
were written,
we weren't doing that much communicating because we
didn't really have the technology.
Right. Right. But thirty five years ago. But
now,
if you're in business,
you're communicating globally
instantly. Mhmm. It is much easier to communicate
around the world right now. Or you're not
Absolutely. Or you're not communicating. Right. No. You're
not in business, basically. Yes.
Yeah. So,
so everybody can, you know, find something, I
think, in this that's gonna be useful for
them. It it sounds great, but it's not
out yet according to when we are doing
this podcast is coming out.
Now if you're listening to it at a
later date, maybe it is, and it probably
is. But but so tell us when it
is going to be released. Scheduled to be
November 4, the book drops. 2025.
Of 2025.
Yeah. It will be available in all major
bookstores.
It is now available
online,
at Amazon, at To preorder. Workshop
at,
at all, outlets that you might know for
preorder. Yeah. Great. Well Oh, great. And if
you're listening, you should be doing that. Yeah.
And if you preorder now, I think you
get some discounts too depending on the outlet
that you work that you do it in.
Okay.
Two weeks ago, I sat down in the
studio and recorded the audio version of the
book. Okay. Good. And that is also available,
in preorder. Nice. So you mean people who
listen to this podcast are gonna have to
listen to you drone on for hours? Absolutely.
Okay.
I drone very well. You know, you're a
good droner. Our listeners are acclimated too. Yeah.
That's true. Good point. If you're a good
droner. Still listening, if you're back with us
Yeah. They all just said what? I know.
You love it. Right? Yeah. Okay. Then I
got me in now. Yeah. This will work.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's avail it'll be
available in, hardcover,
in,
audiobook,
and in Kindle ebook. Nice. Okay. Good. That'll
that'll all be available
preorder now. Please preorder now. Yeah. And, I'm
doing it. And thank you. Thank you, Tarn.
I've got the tab up. Yeah. Thank you.
I was gonna do it because my really
good friend has not given me a copy
of it at all or anything about it
for that matter. I tried to, you know,
but, you know, you know
sell the sell the sell the sell the
sell the your really good friend doesn't have
a copy of the book yet. Sure. Convenient.
Okay.
For those of
okay. As an author,
if you're lucky,
you get 10 free copies Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
To to then distribute very carefully. Oh, it's
like the golden ticket. Right.
Selecting you all, mister Wonka. Let's,
And and, actually, you know, we we really
just finished it up, wrapped it up, wrapped
up all the editing, wrapped up the final
editing, wrapped up
put the bow on the package of the
manuscript
and got it in final form
really just about a month ago. Okay. Yeah.
So it's gonna be another month or so
before any physical copies are available. Sure. Sure.
So so again, and I'm just, you know,
might as well sell. We are, so that's
coming out November 4 Yep. Of 2025,
and it is
out there for a preorder right now. Right.
And a bunch of sources,
like Amazon and others similar to that. Yeah.
Where do you where do you go on
bookshop? Name of it again, Dean. Bar the
name of it is Business Beyond Borders,
Stories, Tales, and Lessons Learned from Working in
a 100 Cultures Around the World. By some
guy named Dean Foster. Dean Foster. That's me.
And if we get a chance, everybody who's
listening, to ever see each other in person,
I'd be more than thrilled to sign it
for you. Absolutely. Okay. And they can sign
it for you too, maybe. Yeah. Yeah.
Everyone can sign it. If that makes any
sense at all. Why not? Probably does. How
do you sign a an ebook or an
audiobook?
You're right right across the screen. I'm sure
they're fine with that. Yeah. Nobody with that
one. That's right. It's just a Sharpie to
it Right? That's right. Right there. I'm a
permanent marker, I think you wanna go with.
Yeah. Yeah. Listen,
that that's great. I think it's wonderful. Yeah.
That's great. On that because that's really an
effort and and a and it's
if people out there have not written books,
it's writing in large quantity like that is
very, very substantial and difficult to do. And
you have a lot of interesting stories to
tell. Yeah. Share them with the world. It
it brought it brought out for me the
stories that I wanted to tell that were
most important. It forced me to think hard
about that, what would be of of most
use to a reader who's doing business in
these places,
which Or even just traveling to these places.
Like you say Yes. Ordering a croissant in
in in the restaurant of wherever you happen
to be
is not necessarily as easy as you might
think it's going to be. Is that is
that the title of the next book? I
think it is. Croissants around the world. Yes.
It is.
Delicious.
That's the subtitle, isn't it? So you thought
you were gonna get a croissant. Right. Exactly.
Alright. We're signing the disclaimer now. Yeah. There
you go. If I excellent.
Speaking of books.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was a book that
we've all kind of taken a look at
Right. That we'd like to promote a little
bit for this person that we don't know
at all. Yeah. We don't know them at
all. We have no connection whatsoever. Which I
remember by the name of Christopher j Moore.
Right? And and I don't even know what
j stands for, but let's just go with
it. Just make up names for Okay. That'd
be fun. Let's fill the rest of the
podcast. Okay.
What could it be? There's
this book is called The Untranslatables.
Yeah. So It's a wonderful book. It's a
wonderful book, and and it and it's got
a lot to do with culture. Right, Dean?
Yeah. Yeah. I've talked I mean, talking about
books, we all there's lots of books on
culture, but I really love this book, the
untranslatables,
because it talks about
the phenomenon
of
putting words
to cultural concepts
that
are different in different cultures.
So, for example,
why is it that we we don't have
a word for
this human condition that we all share Yep.
Yep.
In a particular culture, but there's a word
for it in another culture. Sure. What about
that culture
makes that makes them need to emphasize
an
a concept and give it a word. While
maybe in our culture,
we know about that kind of thing, but
it's just not that important.
Right. Well, it could be there's something about
it that we shouldn't talk about, so we
don't wanna give it a name. Right. Right.
It's tied back to what we were talking
about in the beginning. Okay. Yeah.
Nice. Or and, also, I I'm just wondering
if if in this kind of thing, because
I and I think we'll get to it,
the first word here in a minute, I
think, because we want to we wanna make
sure people are understanding what we're talking. Right.
If you have an example. Right. It can
be a little bit hard to grasp if
you haven't really spoken about this type of
of phrase or word
in the past. So but nevertheless, I'd
my take on all of this is that
goes right along with what you're talking about
as far as it being something that is
important
within a certain culture,
and I suppose within a small
sections of that culture also in some cases.
But mainly it's that's why they have needed
to have something to refer to. Yeah. And
use to refer to.
And so it becomes important to have that
word.
And as as you mentioned before, the you
know, everybody's going to have this. But how
often do you encounter it? Does it really
come in? Or do we prefer
to place it in a different part of
our lives because we have a different culture?
And that's the fascinating thing about it. Right.
What is it about our culture that maybe
hasn't given us a word for it while
in another culture, they really do. They came
up with a word for this idea. We
both have
as people, as human beings,
the the individuals in both cultures
have experienced
this at some point, but
it's not important enough. It's not a priority
enough in one, and it's and it becomes
a priority in the other. So what does
that tell us about the two cultures? Yeah.
I think that's a really interesting explanation. I
do too. And I think it it it
becomes important. By the way, we're gonna we're
talking about this, for the most part. We're
talking about this
in in in other languages than English.
Yes. We're we're dealing with it in from
that perspective. Right. So it's it's it and
certainly, there are phrases and terms that we
use in The United States, in certain areas
of The United States
that others don't do or don't. And there
are other English speaking countries, England, Australia,
New Zealand, etcetera. Right. And I know there
are some, I believe, British English words in
in the untranslatables
in the book, but but we've we've decided
to chat about perhaps some others. Yes. Yeah.
For now, anyway. For now. Yeah. Let's take
it one step further. By the way, Canada
is another English speaking country in there. When
Love you, Canada. Love you, Canada.
When we do when we discover
a word from another culture that talks about
something that
we understand,
but we don't have a word for Right.
And then
that word migrates
over into English. Yeah. Yeah. And it becomes
sort of known in So how come that
happens? And I think we can best do
that conversation
with words.
Yeah. Let's look at a word. I'm think
I'm thinking of the the German word
schadenfreude.
Oh, okay. Okay. That's in the book for
sure. Yeah. And,
That's Chris Moore's book, The Untranslatables.
He
won't be We're not being paid by Chris
Moore. Don't even know him. You're welcome, Chris.
No idea. But we like your book, so
yeah. Here we go. Like your book. And
okay. So is there something about,
US culture? I'm we're gonna speak because the
three of us are US Americans. So Yes.
Okay. I'll start there.
Is there something about US culture that doesn't
have a word
to describe
the schadenfreude? Well, what is that? What is
schadenfreude?
Well but in Germany, we do have a
word for it. Yeah. Right? And
and and and Schadenfreude is when you're basically
dancing on somebody else's grave.
Right? So we sort of have a phrase
for it. We have an idiom for it.
Yeah. We have an idiom an idiom. Yeah.
Right. You're right. But it's more subtle than
that, I think. It's
it's when
something bad happens to somebody Mhmm. And you're
glad for it. Yeah. Yeah. Joy for someone's
misfortune. Joy for someone's misfortune. I don't does
that ever happen in The United States. Must
have ever felt that way. So this is
universal. Oh. Right. So we all feel it,
but we may not talk about it. No.
But is it? So for me as the
culturalist
feel really good.
I'm I'm kind of, like, curious about is
there something in US culture
that
makes it hard for us to
put create a word for that? Yeah. Is
there something that we shouldn't be talking about?
Yeah. There's a shame attached to that. I
mean, like, you should feel ashamed. Or do
we need it? I mean, I think there's
a question with all of these words.
In a particular culture, is it needed to
be described that way?
And in some cases it is, in some
cases it didn't.
Do we need it? And is there something
about German culture
that allow
that makes it important for us to
come up with a word that describes That
we need a term that was really wants
to have that word for it. I I
I I think they want to have a
word for everything that that they that That
they're represents a concept because they gotta put
it in the word book, and that's that
big book that they've organized for the last
five thousand years. And and every other order
it could possibly be in. Uh-huh. And it's
in the right spot on the right bookshelf.
And you don't shy away from it just
because it's an it describes something that's uncomfortable.
Right. Right. Okay. Well, also, I think it's
a fact. Is a German And I think
this becomes is it is it something that
is and this goes to what you started
talking about before. Is this the,
is it something that you feel one culture
feels better about
than another culture? Right. Right. It feels like
it's an honest thing to talk about. Sure.
Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about it. And
maybe it's a sense it's a kind of
an acceptable thing to do, but might be.
As opposed to it feels maybe not as
acceptable. I would say for me anyway in
US culture. Supposed to supposed to admit you
feel that. You're just kind of nonsense when
you really think about it. Well, the fact
that it's a guilty pleasure. Mhmm. A good
yeah. There's another good phrase for it. Sure.
Right? Shame. Guilty pleasure. A little bit of
shame associated with broader kind of a broader
take on it, but it's still one. Yeah.
So the focus in The US is on
the Oh, guilt? About the part of this
that is
I shouldn't feel this way, but I do.
Yeah. And the focus on the German culture
is like,
maybe I shouldn't feel this way, but this
is the way people feel when this happens.
But I do. That's right. But I do.
When it's there and I do it all
the regularly.
Yeah.
Very interesting. It's absolutely. You're gonna feel better
when it on all levels of things going
on, it's like, oh, I'm so sorry to
hear that your son didn't get into name
this college. Right. And my son did. And
my son did. Yeah. Oh, I have never
felt this because I'm I'm
superior. Are are you sure?
I'm sure.
Yes. And I don't think they're buying it.
Yeah. I it's I it's a very interesting
concept. Right.
I I I seek out my Schrodinger moment
every day. If you could please If I
can possibly find one. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay.
It's the other thing. But it has but
I think I think it has a legitimate
role
in that Sure. There are days that I
mean, there are days that are good days,
and there are days that are not good
days. Yeah. And and when and when you're
feeling kinda,
like garbage, which occasionally you can, you know,
it happens to all of us, And and
that maybe not occasionally, maybe relatively frequently, you
might feel that way.
It it gives you an outlet for something.
You find out that somebody else had a
worse day for some reason. Take joy where
you can get it. Yeah. It just kinda
lifts you up.
I'm okay. It's just a thought. You're not
hurting anyone.
You're really as long as you're not acting
in some real negative harmful way. Exactly. Yeah.
It's a recognition
of being human. Yeah.
As so many of these things are. That's
right. They all recognize
the human condition. Yeah. And you're saying, why
does this culture need to recognize it more
to the extent of coming up with a
with a word. But as we've said, there
are there are English
idioms and phrases that do dance around this.
So it's Going back to dancing on the
grave thing. There I did. Wordplay. Thank you.
Wordplay. Okay.
Been a while since we're I know. I
know.
Since the last episode. At least. Yeah.
So, yeah. Yeah. I kind of like that
whole stretch right there. You know, it's kind
of fun.
But there. Yeah, I just think in this
kind of emotion,
feeling,
I think, honestly, anyone who believes they're not
feeling it
is they're pushing it down so much. It's
a very human part. So maybe they're having
problems with the guilty part. I think guilt
becomes a real active player in all of
this. Or at least I admit that we're
feeling this. Yeah. It's just the wrong thing.
It's morally incorrect potentially Yeah. Yeah. To to
feel badly
to feel better rather for someone who's who's
having worse times? I I would like to
speak with a German,
a German colleague or or a German listener
if you're if you're so motivated. Let us
know how you how you think this word
is taken in Germany. Yeah. Is it also
talking about something that is equally felt to
be a guilty pleasure? Or is it just
a matter of fact statement about a human
condition? Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. And it may be
that there are you well, you're going to
find a wide range of people in any
culture
who will will approach it somewhat differently. Sure.
You're gonna find people, I think, who think
it's something that you should not be doing,
and you should feel guilty. You should feel
that it's not morally correct to do it
or however you wanna phrase it. And someone
else who's just gonna be like, yeah. That's,
that's what it is. That's what it is.
It's how I'm feeling.
Thank you very much for that. Right. That's
a very interesting example. Yeah. Yeah. Of of
the untranslatable.
Yeah. To essay oh, nice. More. Right? And
this this whole idea untranslatable
because it is culturally it is it is
a reflection of the culture in which the
word emerges Right. Which which talks I I
think it goes back to,
the research that was done by an anthropologist
many, many years ago. Uh-huh.
I I it's known as the Whorfian hypothesis
hypothesis. Okay. The idea that if you don't
have a word for something
in your culture, it's hard to also have
an an
accompanying knowledge of the concept of that word.
Right. Right. Okay.
So of it. I I I think that's
important. The the knowledge of it. Sure. Grasp
it. The Yeah. Uh-huh. The the traditional example
of this, which, by the way, has been,
I think,
more recent research has been proven this proven
this to be wrong. Okay.
Fair enough. But but the original example was
the fact that,
in the Inuit language in Northern Canada,
there's x number of words for,
for snow. Snow. Right.
And yes. Oh, yes. And and that in
English, we have basically
ten, fifteen words for snow. So if you
ask somebody Boy, do we have that many?
That's probably not. Depending on where in the
in the English speaking world you're asking people.
True. True. Okay. In in New England, you're
probably coming up with 15 or 20.
In Louisiana of them we're not going to
say right now. Yeah. Right. And yellow snow
is one of those There you go. There
you go. It's a fun one. Yeah. In
Louisiana,
most people are gonna go snow? Yeah. You
know? Sure. But or snow. There's there's sleet,
there's hail, but that's about it.
Right. Right. Right. So but in general,
therefore, the idea is if you don't have
a word for something, you can't think of
it. And the reason you don't have the
word for it is because it's not part
of your experience.
Right. Right. So Or if it is, it's
a very rare part of your experience. Yes.
Yes. So taking the same idea
to schadenfreude,
is it
less of an experience
because it's devalued? We didn't therefore come up
with a word for it in, let's say,
The US,
as opposed to in Germany when we just
kind of acknowledged it and was
wasn't more of an experience, but
it's it's worth its own word. Yeah. Yeah.
Sure. Yeah. I also think it's it's important
because I think in this particular case,
in The United States, anyhow, it's been there.
Schadenfreude, it's been there are a lot more
people who know it.
Some people really migrated into Asia. It has.
That's one that's that's
gotten, you know, become more and more known.
Yes. They may not necessarily know the full
definition in some cases, but they know the
term. Is that because there's just simply more
acknowledgment
more recently of the that that there's a
whole there's a whole world of son of
a bitches out there that really need to
get their just desserts and they haven't yet?
Or when they do, we feel really good
about it? Well, I I would love to
say yes.
I don't I don't know that it can
be directly put there, but let's directly put
it there for now. Yeah.
Sure. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Let's go. Yeah.
Well, there's an awful lot of untruths being
spoken out there, so let's add to it.
Yeah.
Just because it makes us feel good. Right.
Hey. There you go. You know it again.
You know what? Take your joy where you
could get it. Look. And I'm gonna say
this. See, because right there, we could have
said that. And years ago before Schadenfreude became
knowledgeable at all in this country, in The
United States,
we could have just left that there. But
when you have this term,
the it's a cool word.
And Yeah. It's funny. It really I get
it sticky. It works. Yeah. Yeah. It sticks
in the mind. It's like you were talking
about a title for a book, you know,
that works for that that emotion. It it
you can say it, and it's like, yeah.
You know, well, that's shot in for you.
Right. And everyone goes, Yeah, sure
is. Yeah. Here's but here's one that doesn't
stick
as well, and I don't think it's ever.
Yeah. Can I make a suggestion? Because I
think we're we're nearing our wrap time. Yes.
We are. I know there are several other
terms we wish to talk about. Let's get
another one in here. That maybe aren't as
No. I think let's let maybe let's do
it in two parts. Part two. Oh. I
know. Two parter.
Son of
untranslatables.
Well, I think there's work I mean, that
that's a working title. Right? Oh, yeah. I
like it. That maybe aren't as common in
the or maybe not known at all for
for at least folks in in, you know,
United States. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to think
about this the the importance of this whole
idea
when when we are working with a word
that has migrated into our language
because the because it reflects the whole process.
It's really revealing of something that we all
experience.
Mhmm. It's not a German uniquely a German
experience. Right. No. But we don't have a
word for it, and why is that and
why do they? Yeah. Yeah. Easy to to
easy to, I think, to get our heads
around that whole that whole
idea
with a word that's already made the migration.
But some words aren't as sticky. Some words
never migrate. Right. Yet they're reflective of the
concept. We can still understand it. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. Let's I I'm interested
to dive into those in the next in
the next And we will be doing that
next time. Because this is after all
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