Typically when we have wine at the beginning
of drinking
it, we give a toast. Make a toast.
And why do we why do why is
it referred to in English as a toast?
I can tell you, but I would be
making it all up. Make it up, Tom.
What else do you Make it up. Alright.
So
what else is new is correct. Get out.
I'm sorry.
When
years ago, we're talking middle ages now. Okay?
They would get their drink and they had
their alcoholic
drinks of various kinds. Mead.
Mead would be one. Sure. Mead and beer
and Ale. It was typically going to be
done in the surroundings where you were sitting
in a room with a fire, which in
fact is what we're doing right now. That's
true. We have a roaring fire next to
you. And so everyone felt toasty.
And that's why they said now we'll give
a toast in those situations. It's not because
they were putting pieces of bread into the
fireplace and making toast. Well, there was that
too, but that's a stupid story. And mine
was so brilliant. I know you just made
it up, but that sounds plausible. Well, it
is plausible because I can lie very well.
You are an excellent liar. Uh-huh. Thank you.
But if any but if any of our
listeners have I've never done it before. Have
an have the have a definitive, you know,
Wikipedia definition of why it's referred to as
toast, let us know. I mean, we could
do that. That we could who we refuse.
But we're not going to do that because
after all, we're here to talk about culture
and, oops,
your
culture
show.
But here's my question. He jumped right in
with a butt. You see that? He just
butted in. He always does.
I don't know. I liked your definition of
of the reason for toast. I did too,
though. It was totally made up. It completely
made up. Although, it may be based in
some reality, but
I don't know that at all. Since you're
the infamous lying Tom Peterson. I am the
infamous lying Tom Peterson, Torin. Thank you very
much. So glad to have you here for
this episode. Glad to be here. Good. And
I am the and I am the always,
scientifically
objective
directive I see. Dean Foster Yeah. Who's gonna
talk about Yes. The facts of culture. Oh,
thank goodness. This is all facts. Completely. Totally
facts. Completely facts. Uh-huh. And you raise an
interesting point, Tom. Do I? Yeah. Do
I? Have I finally raised an interesting point
after all these years? Finally, after all these
years. Hallelujah.
The idea that there would be this individual
who would be responsible for raising the spirit
of conviviality
as we all sat around and imbibed
in a drink that was, in effect, making
us all pretty convivial.
We still have remnants of this, which is
part of what makes your your definition so,
so plausible.
We still have remnants of this
from a cultural perspective. Uh-huh.
In the Caucasus,
you know, the region
East Of The Black Sea, West Of The
Caspian Sea,
the North Of Iran, South Of Russia.
Are they caucuses or are they cockeye?
Well, no. Cockeye, you see,
was a character on MASH. Here we go.
Is that right? Yes. I see. Cockeye. Okay.
He he was Fine. Don't push it. That
was good. Move on. No. We think it's
not there. Just leave it there,
and you'd have to be of my generation
to even know what MASH was. Right. Well,
but you can watch it. Is. People you
can watch it now. MASH is great. It's
on Hulu, in fact, if you'd like to
look it up. Yeah. That's true. There you
go. Yeah. But in the in the caucus
caucuses Oh, yeah. That's what we're talking about.
The Caucasus
as as the mountains are referred to. Mhmm.
But it wouldn't be wrong, I think, to
try to make a case for cockeye because
He's gonna go there. It is one of
the and try to run. He wouldn't be
wrong. He's gonna make a run at it.
No. It's wrong.
It's not very nice, but it wouldn't be
wrong. Oh, I see. Oh, well. Is that
okay to a whole other subject? It's at
whole different And the reason I say this
And what is that? What is objective fact?
Do we have a reason? It's an objective
fact. Because It is one of the most
culturally complex regions in the world. In the
world. Okay. Yes. Okay. So you could go
from one side of the of the mountain
to the other side of the mountain, and
you're in a very, very different culture. So
we would say it complex cockey.
Complex cockey? Yeah. That's a medical condition. I
see. Take two aspirins and call me in
the morning. Right. You'll have to see the
optometrist,
which is a contradiction in terms. If I
need an optometrist, how can I see him?
Anyway,
in the caucus I think we should get
more wine is is what we should do.
I'm gonna take another drink. Alright. Go for
it. We have these
very complex mix of cultures. Uh-huh. In some
cases, represented by the national borders. In other
cases, more cases than not, not represented very
well by the national border. Well, national borders
typically are brought up for some political reason
as opposed to really geographical or anything like
that. These different tribes, these different groups of
people are from one side of the mountain
to the other have been fighting each other
for centuries.
That's fun. And so it's a very,
very complicated place. Sounds like it. You know,
literally go two miles in the wrong direction
and suddenly find yourself in enemy territory. Mhmm.
And even today, I mean, they make the
headlines. You see it. But some of the
but but some of the larger nations in
they're all relatively small in this very small
region,
are Georgia,
Armenia,
Azerbaijan,
and
these, going back to biblical times and even
before,
were wine baking regions.
And in fact, Georgian wine is having a
renaissance right now.
And,
I I have to say that
I didn't realize that at all. And the
their winemaking tradition
is very, very unique.
They dig these holes in the ground,
and they put these amphora, which is like
these ancient Greek vases. Mhmm. We would refer
to them as amphora. There's a Georgian term
for it, which I'm not familiar with, but
I know it it exists. And and then
they insert the amphora into the ground and
they let the wine
develop
the grape juice develop into wine in that
informent. To a degree. Yeah.
And some of these wines are extraordinary
and the this is an ancient wine making
technique, probably the oldest in the world that's
still in operation.
Sure. And you can you can go to
the vineyards in Georgia and see them. Wow.
But
because of this winemaking tradition, here's the point
to to your what your comment was about
the Toastmaster Yes. Is that you have the
development in Georgia. If you're invited to a
social event,
and if you're invited to a business event,
it will become social. There will always be
a social aspect. A dinner, a banquet, a
Georgian feast is really what it's like.
And somebody has to become the tamada.
And the tamada is the leader, the toastmaster.
And this person has a very important role.
They will keep the party going all night
long.
And one of the things that you should
expect if you're invited to to a Georgian
feast
is that everybody is going to be expected
evening. Every And everyone. And you will be
called upon to make a toast by the
Tamata if you don't volunteer.
Okay.
Alright. And there will be there'll be much
singing.
Everyone is expected to join in. And if
you don't know the the the Georgian words,
I mean, how we all know the Georgian
words, the one of the great Georgian songs.
I've known them set as long as I
can remember. Well, if you don't, you can
always just
latch on to the melody and la la
la you can seal it out. You can
scat your way through it. And with enough
wine, everyone would care. It's like it's like
Georgian karaoke.
Sure. Mhmm.
And this goes on all night long, and
the Tamada
is in many in many cases, a very
well paid position
in Georgia. So if you're hosting an event,
you can pay for a professional Tamada to
come in. Like an emcee MC or it
or even in today's world, a DJ or
someone like that that might come along to
keep the party moving. And this person is
gonna be a combination DJ,
Borscht Belt comic Mhmm.
Singer Oh, that's fun. And For the four
people who remember the Borscht Belt comics. Go
ahead.
Don't we all? No. No. That that was
a little older. Little most of them wouldn't
even know what Verscht Yeah. Wouldn't know what
Borscht is. Yes. Or the Borscht Belt. Where
is that? Anyway, Toastmasters.
Yeah.
Well, so it's a very long event. It
it it I bet it is. When the
weather is nice, it's often held outdoors Mhmm.
In the Okay. Gorgeous. You know, the Caucasus
is beautiful. Mhmm. Topographically, it's these rugged mountains.
And in the summertime, you know, they're all
in bloom with wildflowers.
Mhmm. Having a picnic out in that's where
you will be hosted on the ground. Blankets.
Really spread out and you sit down and,
and and a raucous time will be had
by all. That's a good picnic. Good. Yeah.
I know. And if it seems to be
a little more of an official
event, maybe a business event or something like
that, then you can have a professional tomato
who'll be just running the evening for you.
Okay. Sure. That And it's it's a really
important position.
Anyway
Toastmasters.
Yeah. So the Toastmaster.
Other than the glass of wine that's in
front of me right now, I'm not sure
why we're talking about Toastmasters. Isn't Toastmasters an
organization? I don't really know what I mean.
Organization. Yes. You want me to lie about
this now? Please. I mean Okay. Whatever I'm
gonna do now. I've been on a roll.
So
it's,
well, Toastmasters in in The United States and
I think internationally,
Toastmasters is an organization for,
public speaking. People typically people who have difficulties
of some level, some some severe and some
just trying to be better at it. Okay.
And they, and they try to
help people get better at it. That makes
sense. Okay. Yeah. I could I could use
help with
I'm okay public speaking wise, but with, like,
a wedding toast. You know? That makes me
nervous. Specific public speaking then. Yeah. Yeah. There's
a lot of pressure on that one. What's
the worst wedding toast you've ever heard? Can
you recall that? I really actually I don't
think I've heard of a very bad one.
I've like, on TV, that's a trope. It's
a trope. Yeah. But in real life it
all the time. It actually it used to
be pretty good. I think most people do
pretty well with it. Yeah. I don't think
people seriously. Yeah. They do. And and and,
I mean, occasionally, you might get someone who
wants to stand up and do it who
Right. And had too much wine. Too much
wine or just isn't good at those things.
It's inevitably too long if they've had too
much wine. And when they start to cry,
then you know it's time to And also,
at some point, they probably
said something they should not have said in
it. Yeah. And, again, like, I feel like
in TV shows that always happens. That's regular.
I personally haven't seen it, but I'm I'm
just I have either. Yeah. Either that or
I was too drunk to remember it. Well
oh, yeah. That you know? Which is, you
know. Well, the Toastmaster.
Okay. Okay. And Toastmasters as an organizer. She
really shifted over it. On it. Right? And
I Amber. When I wrote an article,
oh, I think I think it was several
months ago
that was published in Toastmaster. Oh, did you?
Oh, well. About public speaking across cultures. Hey.
Wow. Okay. Yeah. And so I thought, let's
take a look at like, I made I
said, you know, top 10 tips for public
speaking across cultures. Oh, cool.
And, if we take a look at them
Alright. We can pull it up. I would
like to ask Tom Uh-oh.
What? My colleague, dear friend.
What's happening?
What do you mean? Collegial philosopher. Cannot.
Can I get a, another glass of wine
first? No. Oh, okay.
Torin, do you do you have them? I
have pulled it up. Yes. Okay. Okay. So
there are 10 suggestions about public speaking across
cultures. So let's No. I have an idea.
Okay. So I'm gonna read the,
sentence right before we get into your rules.
And then each rule has sort of a
headline.
So why don't I read the headline, and
let's see what he thinks you're talking about.
Okay. How's that sound? Oh, that's good. Like,
which culture am I talking about? Yeah. Or
or yeah. And what's what's the
concept that you're discussing? Yeah. Okay.
It says here are my top 10 rules
for communicating across culture successfully no matter where
in the world you are. And it goes
ten, nine, etcetera to one.
So number 10 In that order. In that
order.
Wait a minute. I'm I'm already lost. I
know you are.
Rule number 10 More wine, please. The headline.
Rule number 10 ways. Learn the communication style.
What does that mean? What learn the communication
style?
Right. What's he talking about? Style is broad.
Okay? So,
when I when I say that, I mean,
the communication style can be very,
very verbal, very physical, but more often is
some combination of both.
But there is going to be a kind
of
if you don't
if you're doing things in your
basic,
culture,
in your in your communication style,
there's a possibility you could run into conflict
with whomever you're in front of if they're
not from that culture.
Okay. I like that. I because I think
that's what I was meaning to say. Generally
generally correct. Yeah. I I think so. Oh,
generally correct. I remember him.
Lee correct. Lee correct. Lee's a good guy.
Yeah. I think he's a character in Mash.
He was correct. Yeah. Him and cockeye.
Cockeye and General Lee. Alright. Oh, that's good.
Okay. We've got a good show going here.
I I think we have a pitch. But
now we just have to come up with
a pitch, and I think we've got it.
Yep. Yep. Okay. Not bad. Yeah. I what
I was really intending,
to refer what I was referring to was
that
all around the world, you have this difference
in
direct communicators and indirect communicators.
Okay. So for various reasons, there may be
things that you that you cannot,
directly comment on.
You have to indirectly allude to them. We
all know this. Right? There are certain things
that we
politically correct and not politically correct, quote, unquote,
to use that term. Yep.
That may not have anything to do with
politics, but you know what it means. Mhmm.
And so if you're a public speaker, you've
gotta know
how
indirect or direct
the orientation of your culture is in order
to focus your remarks in a way where
they'll be understood,
where it it fits with the expectations
of the of the listener.
And,
that's something that you gotta do your research
on. I mean, there
Japan, for example, is an indirect
communicating culture. Mhmm. It there are so many
things that we all understand in Japan
that mean things that nobody else understands that
they mean. Mhmm. Okay. And so how is
an outsider who's gonna be speaking in Japan
going to go navigate that? Yeah. Andy, can
I ask you refer to Japan in the
article here as a, the Japanese culture as
a high context culture? Do you know what
that means? Yeah. That the what what you
really mean to say
is embedded not in the words, but in
the con not in the content of your
of your comments,
but in the context
in which the comments are being made. Oh,
okay.
So that changes the whole approach to how
you are going to Mhmm. Say just about
anything. Sure.
Now this has lots of consequences in business
and and and and in social life, but
also in public speaking. You get up there
and
you're trying to communicate in a way that
is,
if you're a Westerner,
far more direct
than
typically appropriate in a Japanese
context.
So in some way could be taken
poorly, let's just say,
for one reason or another. Or maybe completely
misunderstood.
Well, but you may not be again without
without the research done ahead of time, you
may not have been aware of that.
Precisely. But to some degree, you're kind of
responsible for being more aware of that
or not putting yourself in a position where
you're going down that path. Because you won't
understand you won't understand what's what's what's happening.
And and and because of other aspects of
Japanese culture, like the need to always protect
face,
which means you'll never kind of know that
you did anything wrong or said anything wrong
because it's the obligation
of your Japanese hosts or audience
to,
in in case in the case of an
audience, to applaud,
to make you feel like you did well
Yeah. Even though you may not have. Yeah.
Even though you may may have seriously screwed
up. I mean, there's an example of somebody
making the very critical mistake, a westerner in
Japan,
of telling a joke. Now now jokes across
cultures do not translate well at all. Yeah.
Well, just kind of very quickly off of
that. Getting dangerous territory. Right? It jokes are
dangerous anyway. They're not necessarily
because there's I'm saying that only because there's
a lot of talk about a good thing
to do is start off with a joke.
Warm people up. And that's in your own
culture. In your own culture, but what's funny
in your culture may be very offensive in
another Here's the bottom line of it. Translation.
Yeah. You also may not be very good
at telling them jokes. And if you're not
good at telling jokes, don't tell jokes. Right.
Yeah. Don't And that's I don't care what
your culture is. Humor is good. Jokes are
not. Yeah. So you need a different form
of humor. Yeah. And be good at that
too. Otherwise, just stick to what you're doing.
Right. It's like you. I tell you all
the time. Don't be funny. Right.
Self deprecating humor
is is good. Right. Sure. Well, that's gonna
depend on the culture, isn't it? It's it's
more or less good, but gooder in some
and not so gooder than others. Yeah. Sure.
Sure. But here's what happened to the guy
just That was grammar, by the way, wasn't
it? Yeah. Well, yeah. It was. More gooder?
Is it more gooder? Grammar time in there.
Grammar time. Grammar time. It was. Okay. Everybody
loves grammar time. Alright. So there was this
guy in Japan standing up there trying to
make a joke, and he's being translated because
in because nobody in the audience is speaking
English. Right?
And, so the translator goes, now he's telling
a joke.
And
now he's getting to the punchline. Yeah. The
best jokes are told in that way. And
then go well And then in many situations.
And then the translator goes, now everybody laugh.
Yeah. Okay. Because nobody got it. It it
didn't translate across the culture. Right? And and
he didn't know that nobody got it. He
thought it was a big success. Right. Right.
Because Because in Japan, we had to save
his face. Right. Oh, interesting. Okay. And you
mentioned the article too, Dean, that Dutch culture
is a low context culture. So I assume
that meaning that comments tend to be a
little bit more direct. You can be very
much direct. I mean, one of the one
of the great complaints by
many,
other Europeans and North Americans is that
the the Dutch are going to say it
the way they need to say it in
order for you to understand it.
And that was very blunt. Oh, that was
very that was too direct. That was Mhmm.
It was not done nicely.
You know? Yeah. Well, the Dutch are gonna
say,
but that's the fact. Right. Right. You know?
What's the problem with that? But it it's
don't take it personally. Let's just deal with
the problem. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. So let
let's make this into a game show format
somewhat if this is gonna be a terrible
scale. So I did really well on the
first one.
You did. You got a thousand points. Well,
so but here's my question.
Thousand. If we do, well, if we do
have 25,
terrible scale, 25 being knocked it out of
the park. Wait a minute. You you twenty
five five. We're gonna do four of these,
and I wanna get to a hundred. So
okay. 25. Alright. Go ahead. 25 being the
best it could be, one being terrible. No.
Why don't we say a thousand points Okay.
And if we do four of them Just
4,000 divided by four or whatever we get
divided by four,
4,000.
It's it's a base of 40. Not a
point. Why don't we do it as a
base of a hundred?
If I get a hundred, that's good. How's
that?
Okay.
So that means What?
25,000
points for each one. Okay. Hold on. Bartenders,
you can put the wine away.
Okay. Thank you. You get a 22.
Except bring another class from me. Out of
a thousand of soca beers.
Okay. So for Maybe we scraped that out.
22 out of 25. Is that what you're
saying? First twenty five thousand points.
What? The first twenty five thousand points.
Here's an idea. Let's just do them. Okay.
Roll number five. I'm gonna do well on
all of them anyway. Oh, sure. Okay. Sure.
Rule number five. Yes.
Oh, and I think,
Dean may have just alluded to this. Rule
number five, respect the need for face, and
faces in quotation marks.
Okay. Well, that's, it's kind of unfair because
Dean has just done a very brilliant,
job of Well, that assumes you were listening.
Well, that's a good point because I really
wasn't mostly. Well, I'm not gonna repeat myself.
Well, well So let's move on to this.
So
I,
but face would be more like,
saving your own kind of self esteem but
more of a an esteem in front of
the public, I think. Yeah. I think you
nailed it. In in that kind of thing.
It's what how how you're seen. You don't
wanna be seen as fill in the blank,
whatever, negative. And different cultures are going to
use different benchmarks or standards for what determines
that. So in some cultures, your authority needs
to be understood
ahead of time in order for them to
grant you the honor of listening to your
comments Yes. Or public speaking. Yes. So so
and so who is and then all of
your act all all of your credits, all
of your accomplishments, all of your
your degrees
has to be understood
in order to be able to
to to generate the kind of respect
that the audience needs to give you. In
other cultures, and and I would say in
The US culture,
we don't need all that. We don't want
all that. Anybody bragging, quote, unquote, about their
achievements or their success or their credits,
that's no reason to to brag. Just tell
us the the latest and greatest right now.
And and and if it's interesting and useful,
then we'll then we'll then we'll buy it.
But it's not because of your not because
of your degrees or your or your accreditation.
Right. Right. We if if you can have
all the accreditation in the world and if
you don't bring something to the table right
here, we don't we don't care. Right. Or
we'll tell you to be quiet. Which is
also the reason why we have more cultures
that rely on formalities and
and traditions while other cultures are breaking formality
and tradition all the time. Sure. What was
that noise, by the way, in in just
a few minutes ago? Did you hear that?
Yes. That was the, robot.
Oh, okay. Fine. Okay. Was pouring us some
more wine. Oh, good. Well, the doing a
heck of a job. It really really is.
Was that the robot tamata? Yes. It was.
Robot tamata? That'd be great. Well, but we
don't wanna put the tomato human tomatoes out
of work. That's true. That's true. You gotta
think about that. You really do. You really
do. I think you nailed that one. I
think you got 25 out of 25. I
really will.
25,000
points. Okay. You just lost 20,000,000 points.
Okay. Roll number three. Wait a minute. I
wanna talk about the robotic Tamata for a
second. Okay. Of course. Oh.
Okay. There it was again. Yeah. Oh, it's
still pouring. It's well, it's doing a heck
of a job by the way. I I
called I'm talking about it. Yeah. It's like
Siri. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I just activate everyone's
series. Let's make sure. Siri could be an
interesting tomato.
It could be.
Next,
rule number three.
Determine the cultural let me start again. Determine
the cultural comfort with risk.
Determine the cultural comfort with risk. Risk or
not. The game?
That's what I was wondering if it was
part of the game. Old board game? Well,
in The US and maybe probably across the
many parts of of the world,
It's an old Milton Bradley board game. Is
that what Dean's referring to here? No.
No. Well,
not really. Although that game is based on
whether you want to
go ahead and take risk or not or
you'd rather stay away from risk. And I
think that's what Dean's referring to
generally within a culture as to whether a
speaker
Then I think maybe if Take it from
the speaker's point of view. I think a
speaker has to know whether they feel comfortable
with actually
taking a risk in front
of a
the the audience. Whatever that audience is made
up of. And whatever determines a risk for
that audience. Well, well that's the other side
because I'm saying from from the speakers viewpoint
first. But you're right. I think there's then
also taking into consideration
that there is an audience there who is
who may,
see risk differently.
And and maybe see that you're you're not
really telling us what you should be telling
us or
I can't believe they said that in front
of us. So yeah. So if it's maybe
more risk
is it is it less
comfortable with risk? Risk. Yeah. Then maybe more
information is required. That's right. Yeah. I I
think that's going down a particular avenue. So
before you expect me to to
to endorse your ideas,
to support your ideas, me as the audience,
as the listener, I need a lot more
information
or I need a lot more
of things that for me would confirm
the the reason why I should why I
should be listening to you.
In
other cultures, I don't have to provide so
much information.
Maybe my my achievements speak for themselves. Okay.
And so I just say what I need
to say and and you're gonna buy it.
Sure. I would also say in in when
I
teach speaking in public,
I I make sure that people understand that
it is important to understand where your audience
is coming from.
And which culture they're coming? What are they
In your case, what you're talking about is
throwing the culture aspect in across borders. And,
absolutely, that has to be taken into consideration.
If you do not,
then and you're talking about the Japanese approach
to it, general Japanese approach, and being
I guess we would describe it as kind
to the speaker, but that person should have
an awareness of where the boundaries are. Where
those boundaries are. What they can say and
not say. Which takes us to a question
Oh, the way they can say it. That
I'm gonna raise around this is what happens
when you're talking to a global audience?
Well, then you have to go somewhere when
you're you're somewhere in the middle. But here's
the thing too. I don't think a a
good speaker
can completely
alter everything they do,
based on an audience.
I think they have to have some ability
to bring to
their their talk
themselves. Oh, absolutely. Authenticity is critical. Right. You
never, never lose your authenticity.
But what you do is you you you
say what you say and be and act
and do what you do in a way
that understands
how what you're doing is being taken
by others. I just think when you brought
up the idea of the of the global
of the global audience, I think that there's
I I think at a certain point, you
have to go, okay. This is a very
diverse
audience. Right. I I should keep things within
these boundaries,
but Mhmm. Some people will not like some
things that I say or and or the
way I say them. And I can only
do so much for that because of the
broadness
of the demographics of this audience. No. I'll
tell you what happened to me. I was
I was making a presentation in Hong Kong
Mhmm. And just before I I was literally
stepping out from behind the proscenium onto the
stage,
this,
the Hong Kong Chinese fellow came up to
me, one of my colleagues there, and he
said,
you know, a good way to start
is to just apologize to everybody. Mhmm. You
know, make an apology because that
shows well, he didn't even go into that
because I understood what that was.
He said, but it it it and it
is very common in in Chinese culture to
kind of apologize,
which is a way of demurring, which is
a way of showing humility, which is actually
related to face because what you're doing is
you're actually giving yourself more face by being
that way. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
But as the Westerner,
I knew also that people like
something light and something to warm up, like,
quote unquote, the joke, but not a joke.
Right. Something like that.
So, basically, I went out and I said,
look.
I know that when I start a presentation
and I like to start with something that's
humorous and funny, but I know that something
in in Hong Kong might be to start
more effective,
with an apology. So I'm gonna apologize that
I don't have any jokes to tell. Yeah.
Right. Right. And that itself became a joke.
Sure. Right? Good.
And that was kind of like a warm
way to to to make it a multicultural
experience for everybody because this is what we're
gonna talk about.
It it's gonna I think you can say
that across cultures globally,
the people
listening
or the person listening even
to another person
wants to be comfortable with them.
They want to feel that they are a
human
and that there's
that they're going to be telling them things
that they can
understand
and they're gonna be telling them things that
are acceptable to them. And useful for them.
And useful for them, sure. When I say
acceptable I don't mean that they have to
agree with everything. I simply mean that they
they're being presented in a way that is
acceptable to them. And and I think that's
kind of a common courtesy thing
in any culture,
cross cultures, or within cultures. I think it's
just the way we should address other human
beings. Absolutely. Can I ask going back to
the idea of speaking, if you're truly speaking
to a global audience and with this idea
of how much information to give,
I mean, would you recommend, Dean, that, you
know, an approach to take is to try
to find that balance of, okay? I'm going
to try to give a healthy amount of
you know, use your authentic voice as much
as you can, give a healthy amount of
information, but not overload. Right? Try to kind
of find a sweet spot. Or is that
yeah. I don't No. I think you're right.
As soon as people start to get the
deer in the headlights, you know, as soon
as and if any
if you know your audience,
if there's the risk of some of a
significant percentage getting deer in the headlights syndrome.
Right. Then stop. I mean, which is why
you need to simplify,
which is why the skillful
speaker and the skillful interpreter,
really, is somebody who can take a complicated
concept
and verbalize it in a way where everybody
Yeah.
Everybody gets it. Yeah. Because I'm wondering too
if it's it's a case where you're speaking
and you don't necessarily know the audience, but
you do know this is going out worldwide.
Well, then you know that what you know
Then you know your audience. Yeah. So you
to an extent you know your audience. Yeah.
Okay. Right. I'm just gonna give a quick
example you gave in the article, Dean, about
this, idea of giving information. You said my
Korean colleagues may require more and more information
from me before responding to my requests, while
my Nigerian associates might suddenly decide to move
forward with the entire plan overnight. Yeah. So
just So Nigerians traditionally, you know, as a
cultural definition,
are more risk tolerant.
We don't need the whole
backstory, they don't need the whole Adam and
Eve in order to take action.
Just enough to make them feel comfortable with
it and on their way. And in Korea,
we need lots of information. As is typical
in much of East Asia,
Lots of information before we even take a
baby step. Okay. So there's there's that as
a general
structure to think about. Okay. So out of
25, how did he do? Oh, he he
got 13,722
points. Good. That's what I thought too. Yeah.
Alright. I'm putting him down for 23.
Perfect.
Okay. Last but not least, rule number one.
Is this my rule number one? Yes. Like,
the great rule of the great priority rule,
the greatest rule of all? I don't know.
You you wrote the article. I don't know.
I don't remember. I don't know.
Oh my. Is this number one because it
because I ran out of numbers? Yes. Because
anything below number one I don't see a
zero or, like, a half.
So we're gonna go with one thing. One
because first one? It's the most important. Maybe
that's the one you saw you thought of
first.
Well, I let's Can we do it? Let's
assume that's what I just fell asleep in
the middle of that
right there.
You just lost lots of points there. Okay.
Rule number one. Uh-huh.
Learn how authority is determined.
In that culture.
It's all says, learn how authority is determined.
Okay.
I will go with the idea that
it I'm gonna say it's it goes to
the person who is speaking
in the sense of,
like, do you have the authority
to be speaking about what you are talking
about
and what the subject is and if or
areas in your talk that you may be
drifting from the thing that you are the
authority of
and that could be difficult, perhaps dangerous.
I don't mean physically dangerous. I just mean
dangerous for being,
appreciated
by that particular cultural audience. Okay. Not bad.
I'm gonna for extra credit here, how might
authority be determined
in a particular culture?
I made it up.
What?
But didn't I I or you know, it's
about showing credentials.
Right? Could be credentials. Sure. Right. Or
achievements. It could also be those- Past. Past.
Because there's money. I'm just thinking the credential
I have, does
that hold muster in that particular culture?
Because if
you if you don't know that Now I'm
gonna guess that it probably does if you're
being asked to speak
to that culture,
but if you're coming in and saying you're
going to speak to that culture like maybe
in a business scenario where you're coming in
to sell something there And you're saying you're
the you're an authority on it, but they
may not consider your your background, your credentials
Right. What are they looking as authority? Yeah.
That's that's all. Okay. I'm just thinking Sometimes
authority
is is established by mere celebrity,
it's the social media phenomenon. Could be celebrity.
Sure.
It could also be but you can establish
it too
in in what else you're doing.
In other words, if you're bringing to whatever
you're you're supposed to be an authority and
and you are speaking of that and that
seems very feasible and
and and intelligent and and thought,
provoking,
then I think that you are given more
credit in many cultures. I don't know. In
in maybe,
but I think overall, that's kind of a
human reaction, isn't it? In some more than
others. Sure. Right? Okay.
Okay. So I win.
Yeah. Some examples here, it says in, Dean
wrote, in some cultures like Scandinavia and The
US, authorities determine based on someone's experience. In
other cultures like Korea and Egypt, authorities based
on age, gender, ethnicity, tribe, or relationship.
Right. And I would and I would add
regardless of
experience and regardless of knowledge and and expertise
in in those cases. Right. Right. Not always,
but sometimes. I can see that. I can
see that I mean, in The United States,
I think maybe a little bit more in
recent times because people are living longer. But
as people get older, oftentimes
it is thought that we don't have to
pay as much attention to them. And I
think it goes the other direction too. A
younger person doesn't have to be paid as
much attention to.
So we just pay attention to middle aged
people, I guess. But,
but authority can be then has to be
built from more because the culture is looking
at it in those terms.
You have to show you do know what
you're doing well. And then there are those
cultures where age does give you authority. Maybe
when you don't deserve it. Even when you
don't have that experience. That's exactly what I
was gonna say. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.
Very interesting. Yeah. Well Which is why, you
you know, oftentimes,
the Japanese
businessperson
who is the leader of the team is
the older gray haired
fellow,
but he's depending on his younger
associates
in order to help him make the decision.
And so
as somebody from the outside who's negotiating,
the older fellow is gonna make the decision,
but it's gonna be based on the feedback
that he gets from the younger folks. Yeah.
Right. Interesting. Right. Okay. Yeah.
Right. Well, I gotta say your scores well,
I I I decided you got a 20
out of 25 on that one.
Really? That's it? Well, your overall score is
90 out of a hundred. But that but
that's 90,000
points out of a hundred thousand
hundred thousand points. In that case, in that
case, that's pretty good. Yeah. Otherwise
yeah. Yeah. Which officially
in in Georgia
makes you an honored tomato. Yes. Does it?
Yes. It does. Alright. And you have a
big a minus on your shirt. Okay. About
a star letter or something. Totally
different culture, but Okay. Just go with it.
Well, I'll tell you.
So well done.
You say Tamara, I say Tamara.
So
I say time to end this podcast. Yes.
I say we've gone way beyond our time.
I'm done with my wine. And then oh,
good. So cheers. Let's go get the robot.
Cheers. Well, turn over your amphora and pour
yourself some more wine. I shall.
To a great podcast. Yes. Cheers. Cheers.
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