We're talking about magic.
Magic in the world and what that means.
I mean, we we can define
magic in a lot of ways.
And and Dean Foster,
you're you're just staring ahead straight into space.
Do you believe
in magic?
Oh, no. We're in the market. Yes. What?
Yeah. If we say another bar of that,
we're gonna have to pay. Okay. Licensing. Yeah.
There's licensing is really upset about this. Ding.
You even had the lyrics that time. And
they may have been right, which is scary.
So,
It's magic, man. Yeah. It's magic. It's the
magic man. It's magic. So is this is
this a cultural issue? Is there a cultural
piece to it? I don't know. Is there
a cultural piece to it? And why should
we be thinking about it? Because we are
loops,
your culture's showing.
And I'm Dean Foster, and you're Tom Peterson.
And this Did you forget my name? Thank
you. That's why I asked. This is
this is always a magical moment, you know,
when we get together to do these podcasts
also. They're magical in what way?
I I don't know.
Wow.
No. I mean, like, why do you say
it's magical? Because it's Well, because I I'm
doing something but this takes us to the
definition of magic and magical. It does. Are
we doing something that is, what, irrational?
Unproductive?
Already. I can't believe it. That's, like, maybe
a record. It's maybe the fastest that you've
killed the fun in in the discussion and
Just suck the fun right out of it.
Just take it right out of it. There
is god. It's god. Anybody tuning in for,
for fun? Forget it. We're we're done.
Fun?
No. No fun.
Enter the Take your fun and leave. But
different cultures have different views on magic. Do
they. And what one culture might seem say
is magical, another culture might have a very
rational scientific explanation for it. Yeah. Name 1.
Well, western cultures often That's my job. That's
what I do here. Often default to a
scientific
explanation.
If you can't define it or explain it
scientifically
Mhmm. Then therefore,
sometimes
some other people would say it is magical
or superstitious or spiritual or whatever, but there's
no rational reason for it.
Magic is one of those
one of those pieces to to that non
scientific side of understanding things. Okay.
Is it all is it purely entertainment? I
mean, I think magic, you know, magic shows,
magicians,
card tricks, charlatans,
all of that Right. As a certain tradition.
But magic is also very serious business and
a very serious part of a lot of
cultures. Now in this case, right now, we're
not talking Harry Potter magic.
We're talking, at least I don't think we
are. Maybe we are. But but we're talking
a,
the actual belief of things
being done and and being created or
or fixed or adjusted
or anything along those lines that are done
through a way that isn't isn't understandable
to the average person. Understandable,
rationally.
Yeah. Right. Scientifically
or with a scientific basis. Well, they may
be scientifically, and they may be a rational
explanation to it. But it certainly can't be
part of the scenario. You know, from an
anthropological
perspective, to just share this, magical thinking is
all about
thinking in a way
where you're putting
cause and effect together
unscientifically.
Mhmm. So, you know,
you see the combination of certain ingredients in
a cauldron. Mhmm. And if you believe that
this is going to turn
average metal into gold,
you throw the metal in there with all
these ingredients and you say some magic spells
and
if you believe hard enough, I guess it
does turn to gold, right, if you take
out whatever the result is and call it
gold. If we call it gold and label
it gold and treat it as gold, it's
gold. Right? And this kind of magical thinking
is a way that a lot of people
get through the day. Okay. And at the
end of the day, they believe whatever it
is they wanna believe even though it's provably
false.
That's magic. Mhmm.
And evidence
is not required.
And,
I think a lot of cultures
selectively
choose to
interpret
their their their experience of reality that way.
We all do to some degree, more or
less. Right. Okay.
So but
in the in the cultural,
world,
the world of cultures,
do what roles might this play as we
go along? I mean, historically,
we know that magic has been looked at
as being,
as being potentially
the the religion of the time. I remember
my grandmother used to believe in the Kadahara,
which was this this Eastern European Jewish thing,
which was like the the evil eye. Mhmm.
And that somebody
cast The baby got sick because somebody cast
an evil eye on that baby because they
had some reason to do so. Right? So
a curse of some kind. Right. Right. And
so you had to do something to counteract
the Kanahara.
Right. Okay. You spit 3 times on the
ground
and the evil eye will be protected. Now
did you have to spit through your fingers
or anything like that? I know that's one
thing that's done
in some areas. No. I don't know if
she ever did that. Okay. Yeah. I don't
remember.
Did you ever see her spit Oh, yeah.
For this? Oh, yeah. She would do that.
And she would speak very seriously about this.
Okay. Yeah. And I know and and there
are versions of this, you know, in so
many cultures. In Latin culture Mhmm. There is
a form of a casting of an evil
eye. Okay. In many Mediterranean
cultures, there are. Certainly, in the Levantine cultures
and in the Arab world, not so much
in the in in in modern Arab because
because that's been dominated by Islam. But but
to be even even pre Islamic traditions
go
and include this idea of the of of
an evil eye that needs to be cast
out.
Mhmm. Okay.
Well, it then then this whole concept of
magic then
permeates these
beliefs, the belief system. Right? If especially if
the culture is an old one. I mean,
the older a culture, the more prescientific
the base of a culture, the more these
kinds of issues will
definitely be part of daily tradition.
Whether people even believe it in or not,
it's the tradition. You know, people walk around
with,
with amulets.
Yeah. And they may not even know that
they're amulets. They may not even know that
they come out of these pre scientific traditions
of magical thinking.
But,
the northern North African,
hand,
it's a 5 fingered hand. Mhmm. And you've
seen people wearing that around their necks. Mhmm.
That's been
become part of the Jewish tradition
of North Africans, North African Jews.
But it it it comes out of an
ancient magical way of thinking and a magical
way of protecting oneself from evil curses. And
a lot of, like, good luck charms
And what is a good luck charm? But
a magical way of thinking.
Yeah. Exactly. Might carry those for a variety
of reasons. I mean and they can do
it they they might have a good luck
penny or or or some other coin. And
what was a poor unfortunate rabbit? Where did
that come from? A rabbit's foot.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hey, Torren. How are you?
Oh, hello.
We're meant to here's Dean. Here's Tom. And
we didn't oh. No. Torren's with us. Yes.
Are you gonna forgive us? Are you gonna
forgive us? You're over there in the corner.
We didn't even see you. We're just ignoring
you. Oh. I don't have a blanket on
me today, thankfully. That's good. No. You we
could you were healthy the last episode. So,
we expected you to be healthy again. And
in fact, I'm I'm hoping you do have
a good luck charm on you so that
you can, now stay perfectly healthy. And is
there is there some performance
we can do?
What kind of magical penance
can we do
to redeem ourselves from the
almost irredeemable oversight of not having
introduced you when we so selfishly introduced ourselves?
Yeah. Yeah. That was long and and boring
most of the time. I I felt like
I I felt like that was penance enough.
Right? I think it was. Moving on. Just
getting through that.
How about a Quidditch match? I would I
would enjoy that if that was Fantastic. Now
isn't the idea of penance
a form of magic? Well, it could be.
You know, the the whole concept. But there
is this fine line and between
religious belief
and
superstitious belief
and belief in these things that cannot be
scientifically or evidentially
proven. Yes. Right? Yes.
And so certain religions
say that if you go through this kind
of ceremony,
then this will be the result. Yes. And
it will prove to be the beneficial or
not. Right. Right?
However, we we look back at that magic?
Well, it's it there's a magical element to
it, I think, because if we look back
at cultures element of magical thinking. Right. Right.
If if we look back to cultures
historically,
and especially ones going back, let's say, ancient
Rome or, ancient Egypt,
any anything in those the Mayan civilizations
and so forth. And we look at things
that they did. We look at them,
worshiping multiple gods, gods that took part in
trees and rocks or
whatever it happened to be, and in ceremonies
that were and sometimes, you know, bloody ceremonies
that some did. And we look at those,
and we say, well, this was Sacrifices is
a is a great is a form of
penance. Right. So there's often blood associated with
sacrifice. And we can look at it from
a distance, from a time distance, and say,
well,
yeah. It was sort of magic at that
time. They were just you know, it was
but in the time period Well, it's easier
for us to say that if we don't
have this if we don't We don't have
that belief.
Yeah. What I'm saying is in the time
period, they're not looking at it like that.
I mean, maybe someone is, but most of
them aren't.
Right? Am I wrong? That's right. And if
it's validated by authority
Yeah. Which is what authority does because authority
needs religion to to get on with its
agenda. Mhmm. So if it's validated by authority,
it's really hard for an individual to step
back and say,
this is not so. Right.
What you're saying is nonsense. There's no proof
for this is a way to end up
being the human sacrifice.
That's right. That's if you start to call
it out as fiction
Yeah. You're in big trouble. Right. Right.
And and so in many ways that we
might look at as being magical. I mean,
in the medical world,
when we when we look at medicine,
I mean, certainly we can use the term,
what doctors sometimes do is is pure magic.
And but in reality, it's not. It is
If we use the term
sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt, but You did
did you mean to interrupt right then? Of
course I meant to. Of course you did.
But I'm still sorry about it. Oh, in
making it.
In one of the ways that we talked
about right there. Yes. Sorry.
So so I meant to interrupt even though
I said I didn't. Right. And I'm sorry
about it even though I'm not. No. You're
not. But moving on from that. Piss, moving
on. What was I gonna say? I have
no clue what you were gonna say. It's
we're talking
medical magic.
Oh, well, yeah. When somebody does something that's
amazing,
we often use the word
magical. We do. You know,
because it's so
unpredictable
and we can't fathom it because we're not
the scientist or the priest who did it.
Absolutely. Okay. So that's the province of these
people with special skills and talents. Mhmm. So
we we call it magical skills.
With them. It's a problem of us the
way we're treating them. We should not treat
any of them as being magical. They're skilled.
They're skilled at what they do. Well, then
the pickpocket
who magically distracts you well, the magician who
distracts you from
the fact that he's picking your pocket Mhmm.
Is kind of a skilled
magician. Absolutely. He is. And it's the that
is more and there are magicians out there
who get very upset
when you,
when you when other magicians try to pass
it off as being
complete magic.
Not not,
not the idea of distraction and things along
those lines. Trickery.
Yeah. Trickery. Which is what it is. Isn't
there a law
that says that
if you learn
if a magician tells you
the magic,
the trick,
that you could be arrested for that,
It's in the constitution. Is it? It's in
the bill of rights. I'm sure it is.
That if you are told something by a
magician Well
if you're told the secret
and you tell the secret Yeah. Done. Yeah.
That's it. Done. Wow.
That's harsh. Finished. Yeah. Yeah. Well, stay away
from Las Vegas. I think, like, every third
person's a magician in Las Vegas. I'm pretty
sure. It's the 28th. Is it the 20
can you look that up, Tory? The 28th
of the I just did. It's 20 Oh,
okay. Thank you for that. And and circling
back to the I also wanted to know
about the the source of the rabbit's foot.
Is there a way we can find that
out?
Yeah. I can I'm curious about that too.
I will Is there a magical machine that
might help you learn? Is there a magical
machine? See? Now there's there we go. Let's
think about it. The Internet, if you were
born in
in 1919
okay. Today is it's 2019. Right? It's just
2 years before me. So if you were
born
you have no idea how accurate that is.
If you were born in 1919,
and and you
somehow were in a coma or something, and
then we woke you up,
and you were then told you're a 100
years old, which should be very depressing at
that point. But and and then you woke
up, and suddenly, here's the Internet.
Here's wireless.
Isn't that going to come off to you
as magic? I mean Yes. Of course. Until
you learn why it isn't. It it it's
the old trope parlor game where
if you could take one thing with you
and go back 200 years to your predecessors,
what would that one thing from today be?
Mhmm. And wouldn't that look magical?
Absolutely. If if whatever it was. Right? What
Yes. Would you what would you do? What
would you bring back with you if you
could That's a really good question. She's gonna
sign the sheet. In order to Get into
a time machine and go back 200 years.
I would bring a computer back with me.
Your laptop? Yes.
Because it doesn't need to be connected to
the Internet. That would be something I couldn't
bring with me, but I can bring the
computer
and and hope that I could figure out
a way to charge it occasionally. Yeah. I
was I wouldn't bring the computer because there's
no Internet and there's no electricity. Yeah. But
the Internet doesn't make the computer. The computer
can do amazing things without the Internet.
And to someone 200 years ago, they would
be blown away by the electricity. But there's
no electricity.
Well, you got to sparingly use your battery.
Maybe a solar charger. I bring that with
me so I could could because whatever you
bring that's electronic, you're gonna run out of
electricity.
That's
200 years ago, you're saying? So we're back
in the 1800s, the early 1800s.
Yeah. There's other than Ben Franklin running around
with a key and a and a and
a, kite, we've got no electricity at that
point. I I I would I think I
would bring a Band Aid.
Okay. Or In case you cut yourself along
the way, which is smart, but
I'm not so sure I'm a mess. It's
the early 1800. They they bandaged people. Oh,
that's true. That's true. You know, the edges
of this time machine Velcro would be interesting.
Velcro would be interesting. Right? Yeah. Or a
little
antibiotic
cream. Yeah. But would they understand the antibiotic
cream? Sure. Because that back then, everybody was
was dying from
little
thorn cuts in the face. That's a just
a long term magic trick. But, yeah, you're
right. You you put it on someone and
then they heal up. They'd think, oh, this
is a magic potion. Right? The term magic
potion. Right. Magic potion. Someone comes up with
something whether it was from leaves or whatever.
Torin, what would what would you take back
with you?
I'm sorry. I'm I'm just looking up rabbit
holes. He's he's he's over there in his
own world. He doesn't have it? He doesn't
come with it. Magic machine. No. No. Yeah.
He's really looking up The magic machine is
not working right now because it's something it
up. Not so magical.
I'm immersed in this because it's yeah. It's,
it's interesting. They
from what I'm seeing, and this is, you
know, it's Wikipedia. So We're on the we're
on the rabbit's foot now? Yeah. Go ahead
with a grain of salt here. But,
appears to have, it says may have originated
from a system of folk magic known as
hoodoo,
which came out of West Africa. Yeah. Right.
And the belief was that the rabbit's foot,
so rabbit is an animal into which shape
shifting witches could transform themselves. Oh, okay. So,
shifting
witches could transform themselves. Oh, okay. So hence,
from that, it was believed if you took
off a piece, that it could be good
luck and you would wear it around your
neck. Well, and and the
the basis of cannibalism in many cannibalistic tribes
around the world
is to eat something of the body of
the person that you capture.
Right. And then you're
you're you're bringing that quality or that aspect
of that person Strength.
Strength into you. Mhmm. Right? So,
oftentimes,
if you were served up as dinner
in these cultures,
it was an honor. Sure.
I'm not sure where I could go with
all of that. I'm I'm going to get
in trouble. I'm pretty sure.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Dean. What was your
question before now that I put that up?
That's fine. My my question was if you
to a world of media. What what
what would you take from today if you
were magically transported back in the time machine,
which is also magical. Right? Yes.
To your predecessors
and you could bring something from today
to show them?
Oh, that's a good question.
I mean, the smartphone jumps to mind. I
don't know if you've already mentioned that.
But that I mean, that's just would be
you don't have you don't have the the
Internet.
And you don't have electricity.
And you don't and, again, I I mentioned
That's true. A laptop computer because it it's
got its own memory, so it has stuff
you can work with.
But you also have to have a way
to recharge it, or you can only do
that for a short period of time.
Right.
Yeah. That's true. Dean mentioned an antibiotic
cream so that you would have, like, a
magic potion.
Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah. And tacos.
Tacos is good. Yes. I'm sure they didn't
have tacos 200 years ago.
No. No. They didn't have Taco Bell, so
there you go. I'm taking it
back to my predecessors.
Okay. Of course, if I were Latino and
I were going back 200 years, you know,
in in Mexico, yeah, they had tacos. They
had They bring a bagel back. Better tacos.
But all my predecessors had were pierogies and
bagels. Taco.
They didn't know about tacos.
If they knew about tacos, they never would
have invented gefilte fish. There you go.
We don't need this.
Which is a whole podcast in its in
itself,
gefilte fish. But
we
I also wanna know,
Tore, real just Yes. Real quick. If you're
looking things up in the magical machine that
you have there,
where does the source of the Shamrock come
from? The lucky
you know, the The lucky charms. The luck
well, lucky charms. Lucky charms. And it's book
because it's been transmuted in America into all
these from these Serial now. Irish symbols. But
Yes. Mainly Irish and Celtic
is where they're they're they're source.
While listening to this, you may think,
hey. You know, I wonder well, if you
have a question like that and wanna ask
us, there's a couple ways you can do
it. One would be through email, which is
oops culture show atgmail.com.
That's o0pscultureshow@gmail.com.
And then there's also our handle on Twitter,
which is oops culture show.
That's
o o p s culture show.
I know. I know. It's not original, but
but it works. Okay?
Torren, have you have you come up with
anything on, Shamrock's force? The the Celtic symbols.
I have. Okay. What do you got? From
the from the authority of finegardening.com.
Ah. So I I always go by them.
I never want to start the day without
looking at them. A true magician. Yes. Oh.
This is
this is not an advertisement for finegardening.com.
Okay. They're not being paid by them. Unless
they're gonna pay us. But okay. So yeah.
Exactly. Then it'll happily be an ad for
them. I actually looked up knock on wood
too, and so I'll get to the both
of those. So what they say is according
to legend, the shamrock was a sacred plant
to the Druids of Ireland because its leaves
formed a a triad. And 3 was a
mystical number in the Celtic region. Of course.
3 is 3 is mystical
Right. Everywhere. Yeah. 3 the 3 is whenever
you tell a joke, you always tell one
thing, the second thing, and the third thing
is your bang. Yeah. It's your punchline. And
you know where the the the source of
the magic of 3 comes from? No. I
don't.
It's the source of patriarchy.
Okay.
You're not gonna give me any more than
that. That's it. We're done. It's it's the
physical
aspect of a male that distinguishes them from
a female.
Ah, you're talking about the, the boys. The
fleur de lis. Yeah. Okay.
Okay. Well, I suppose
there there's a whole lot of themes in
in our own way. The son and the
holy ghost. Well, I know, but that's that's
down the road aways. The the the the
the the trilogy Or the thigh away. Triad
goes back.
Neptune
carried a triad. It just gets repeated called
every every Absolutely. Oh, there's nothing new.
It's every all of this stuff gets stolen
from other stories that were told in the
past as we don't remember them or we
didn't never heard them in the first place.
So the so the druids had the had
the same
worship of the of 3.
And therefore, if you had a 3 leaf
clover, it was common, but a 4 leaf
was uncommon? How did that The 3 so
is the
excuse my ignorance on all of this, but
is the shamrock and I'm I have an
Irish background, but but it means nothing.
The 3 of the shamrock and the 4
of the 4 leaf clover.
Is that correct? I I I believe so.
Okay. Well, we'll go with that for now
until you tell us differently.
So the the 4 leaf clover then is
just 4 leaf clover, and it's so it's
considered
good luck. Did you know did you find
out why? No. I don't know. Okay. Great.
Thanks for your help.
We didn't ask him that. Why the hell
is he here? No. Do we have any
ideas? Why is the same that he would
wanna go there?
Did not provide that.
How about knocking on how about knocking on
wood, which I'm about to do here in
a minute with my head. Yeah. I did
look that up. You know, this is what
I think about a lot because it comes
out of my mouth quite a bit Yeah.
And the mouths of those around me quite
a bit. I don't know if we wanna
talk about what comes out of your mouth
quite a bit. That's Well, we'll we'll leave
we'll leave it at that. And
yet, you know, why do we why do
we say this? Right? Yeah.
According again, this is according to Wikipedia, so,
you know, grain salt. But,
you know, what they say is, obviously, this
is something we say
in the US quite a bit. Mhmm. It
also is said in Britain. It's said in
Australia. It's said in New Zealand. Oh, so
there's an Anglo Saxon Africa. Anglo Saxon route.
So we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna take it
out of the UK area there. Anglo Saxon
or Celtic, perhaps.
Well, so according to this article, the origin
of the custom maybe, they say maybe, so
obviously, there's some uncertainty, but maybe in German
folk folklore,
lore where supernatural beings were thought to live
in trees and can be invoked for protection.
Mhmm. So you gotta knock on the wood,
get them to come out and help you.
Right up. It's sort of like it's sort
of like warding off the evil eye. Sure.
That makes perfect sense to me. For protection
then. Yeah. Well, if you believe
if you believe that there are,
spirits in the in the wood, in the
wood, in the wood, with a tree or
whatever, then you say wake up, I need
your help, I guess is what it is.
Okay?
And and that's going back aways into into
German lore then for for those types of
things. There's something interesting. You know, I think
we can connect to this really,
very profoundly.
If you walk up to a tree Mhmm.
And knock on the tree Mhmm.
It
in that experience,
you do there's something very human about calling
out a spirit
from inside the tree. Okay. Have you been
doing this recently? I do this all the
time. Do you?
I think it's time to call someone. Right?
As soon as possible.
I'll get on this. Okay. Thank you. We
I've got him trapped in here right now.
See,
that's
the perfect response by people who don't believe.
Absolutely. It is.
The non believers. Then you're insane. Authority will
try to lock the law. Witch, and we
drown you. Oh, but it but if if
as we keep talking about this, I'm realizing
that the the idea of magic,
I mean, the appeal of it
is huge.
Because for it's the it's the I believe
it's the foundation of all these religions that
we can look at
much less controversially,
the ones that have already kind of gone
away. Like Yeah. You can't. Because you can't
start to say these things about the things
that people believe.
Because then you're asking people to We may
get to spend their actual,
belief system. Yeah. And that's a very uncomfortable
place to do. Very uncomfortable. And it's always
been there regardless. Far as we know, in
every kind of culture, in every kind of
group of people of any size, there's been
some form of this Right. That that they
have people have gone to. Okay. Here's the
thing. Here's the thing. Magical thinking Hold on.
This is the thing, Torin. Get a pencil
out. Write this down. Okay. I'll note it.
Magical thinking is magical thinking is magical thinking
whether it's applied to religion or to superstition
or to Right. Or to turning, you know,
a piece of wood into gold.
But here's the thing. Oh no, it's another
thing. Oh, I'm gonna make another note. Thing
too, yes. Anybody can believe
because it's all about faith. It's just about
faith in what you choose to believe and
that cannot be challenged. If you say I
believe there are fairies in the bottom of
the garden,
If you believe that,
okay, I can't challenge that. That's right. I
can say
I have no evidence to that. Yeah. I
do not believe it. And I can say
scientifically that they don't
live in the bottom of the garden. Mhmm.
And therefore, I can choose not to believe
in it. Mhmm. But if you choose to
believe in it even in the face of
scientific evidence that they don't exist there, I
can't challenge them. Mhmm. All right.
Therefore,
is it a
superstition that the fairies live on the bottom
of the garden or is it a religion?
But you're believing that the fairies live on
the bottom of the garden. The only way
it becomes a religion is when authority steps
in and says,
yes. There are fairies at the bottom of
the garden.
And then
And here's the structure we're working. Then you
got a 100 people or a 1000 people
or a 1000000 people saying there are fairies
at the bottom of the garden. Theologians would
probably,
they may debate that. I don't know. But
I would say that that they yes. I
mean, that's the essence of who they are.
And if you and if you look at
human history, you know, you can't begin to
catalog
the amount of fiction
that has been
authorized
as fact by authority.
You know, you had Roman gods. You had
Greek gods. You had Hittite gods. You had
Judeo gods. You had
you had Egyptian gods. You had the You
had the You had the Aztec gods. This
goes on and on. Forever. Everybody
in that group Uh-huh.
Believed it
and believed it as fact because the authorities
That's right. Made it very dangerous for you
to choose not to. Well, we also knew
things like the sun was was eaten
by a large monster Right. Each evening,
and then it was reborn again
in the morning.
And and that was a fact. That was
that was what was going on, and there
it was. Every it, you know, it happened
to be over those hills right over there
every time. And it's rising on the back
of a turtle. Or exactly. Or we're on
we're on the back of a turtle or
who knows? And I believe the turtle thing,
by the way. I think the earth is
a flat plane on the back of a
turtle. I But, you know I've not seen
anything to dispute that. I've only seen 2
dimensional pictures of the planet. So there you
go. In in fact,
here's the thing.
Between between thing 3. Digging up. Wait a
sec. Between you and me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It is the turtle. Yeah. Yeah. It's the
turtle. I knew it. I knew it.
Which is why
Hey. Have you seen a have you seen
a three-dimensional picture of the of the earth?
It's one of no. No. Nor have I.
No. No. No one has. Right. So if
and so if you pose a situation where
we don't have the scientific knowledge or equipment
to actually
prove or supply the evidence Right. Then you
can default
to belief. You you absolutely can. I mean,
other than the fact that the the bottom
of the ship disappears before the masts suit,
which is absolutely not what would happen under
those circumstances. But other than that, we have
no proof whatsoever
of Right. Of it being anything but a
flat flat earth. The,
I'm I'm sure I've offended someone out there
with my anti flat earth opinion, but there
you go. Deal with it. I'm gonna go
back to Harry Potter here for a minute
because Harry Potter was a phenomenon.
The whole the whole concept of books moving
everything. Magic in medieval
England
Mhmm. Was a very powerful
force. I mean It was a very powerful
force, but but it's but it's a powerful
force today.
I mean Mhmm. To this day, from the
beginning of the first release of the first
book. Well, it became yes. It's it's fabulous.
It's fab But that's what I'm saying. The
word fabulous itself Yeah. It implies magical. Does
it? Well, to be
a fabulous
is somebody who tells stories that have no
basis.
The word Sort of like our podcast. Yes.
Absolutely.
The word itself We should have called it
fabulous. Something that's fabulous even used in our
vernacular.
You know? It's fabulous. It's like beyond belief.
It's beyond knowledge,
but it's also beyond belief.
Yeah. It's And yet It's fabulous.
But Because it's kind of fun and interesting.
Well, it's liberating to try to to to
think that that there may be another way
of seeing things
that makes the world a nicer place to
live in. Right.
And and so so where I was going
before once again, I was so rudely interrupted.
Who did that? I don't know, but they
really have to stop.
The the idea of the the Harry Potter
thing, what I'm going with, is that in
so many cultures, this thing has been turned
into so many languages
around the globe,
and it is it is incredibly appealing
throughout the planet, really.
Most of the planet is familiar with this
whole idea. So that it it appears that
it is a cross cultural,
appeal toward magic.
And I mean, and they and they refer
to it as magic. That's in in the
book,
JK Rowling refers to this as magic.
And so we see it that way. And
so it's it's which is brilliant on her
part,
because everyone can deal with that under those
concepts. We can deal with it on whatever
level
we want to like that. But we have,
I think,
as cultures
and throughout history
and continuing today.
I mean, people believe that certain animals will
will bring them benefits.
People believe that, is it magic to, feng
shui?
Is is that magic? Yeah. Is it magic?
I mean, if we have no scientific evidence
Right.
Or if we're lacking in scientific
evidence and believe that in the future we
will not have any to prove it Mhmm.
Then at this point in time, if you
believe it, it's magic.
And that's a very strong cultural influence right
there in that type of thing. Absolutely. We've
talked about that in in past podcasts about,
where things are placed if you go into
a Chinese restaurant or you go into a
Korean restaurant or a Japanese restaurant. You will
see things placed in different ways
and for different reasons, but there are they
have a belief system to them. I know
the kind of food that I'm gonna get
if I walk into a Chinese restaurant just
by looking at the placement of the objects.
Mhmm. You know, whether it's gonna be Sichuanese
or whether it's gonna be
Hunanese or Cantonese.
Cantonese is from the south of China where
feng shui plays a large
role in life. And so what you've got
Lots of Hong Kong restaurants in the south
of China.
So you'll see this kind of food there.
Well, if there's a water element
upfront like a tank of fish. Right. You
know you know you can order the fish.
You can choose your fish and they'll take
it out of a tank. But the water
is a feng shui element which is bringing
good luck into the restaurant.
And there'll be a mirrored wall in the
back because that reflects the bad forces out
of the restaurant. Mhmm. So if I walk
past the restaurant and I see mirrored wall
in the back and and fish tanks up
front, I know I know the kind of
food I'm gonna get. Right. Yeah. That's an
element of feng shui. Absolutely. Right. And it's
and and but you can recognize it because
you recognize the culture that's dictating that portion
of the feng shui.
And and that is and and you can
recognize it. Within the scope of things, it's
I'm I'm saying, okay. See, you're that's a
rational approach to it. As opposed to the
belief system that there is going to be
a drawing of good luck or a bouncing
out of bad things that might happen to
you.
Now that that's superstitious.
Right?
You know, lucky Maybe it is. But but
but I I am a strong believer of
the idea of, as you know,
of the of the idea of energy, and
and that's something we can prove. Energy is
there, and it has no beginning and no
end.
And which reflects an awful lot of things
that have come up in religions throughout the
history of of
humans.
But beyond that, in that energy, we don't
we don't really know much.
We don't know exactly how energy behaves in
many different ways. Can
can a
human through different sources and through using materials
or water or mirrors or rocks or stones
or plants or or other other creatures or
whatever, can you impact the energy and in
fact
have these results?
Maybe. That's I mean, that's as much as
I think we can say about it. I
think I don't care who it is. And
and the fact that we can't say more
may be
due to the fact that there isn't any
more to say.
So therefore therefore, it's just belief. It's not
scientific evidence. Just be belief. Or it may
be that we don't have enough science yet
to show it. And do the culture show
us then that if a if the if
you have
the strong enough belief, then in fact, there
is a direct impact by these types of
Well, that's kind of like the placebo effect,
you know, that that if you're true Right.
Which may or may not be a real
effect. Although Which which becomes a scientific
fact. Right. So if a person is given
a sugar pill instead of given a penicillin
or whatever it else is, although I don't
think I'd go there with penicillin. It's a
little dangerous. But if it's they're given something
in instead of,
what we would normally consider
pharmaceuticals,
And and they still come up with the
result
that is there, which happens.
I mean, doctors, scientists That's why they call
it the placebo effect. It's the placebo effect.
But the the another person can take the
sugar pill
and not be impacted at all by it.
It will not in it will not positively
or negatively
impact them because it turns out it's a
sugar pill. And the believer will say that's
because sugar probably is bad for you, but
that's an honest And the believer will say
that's because they didn't believe hard enough. You
didn't. Right.
That's right. Then the non believer will say
no. That's because it really didn't have any
scientific effect. Had no effect. And who's right?
Depending on your culture. Right? Depending on your
culture and whether you want to believe
that that that's the case. Now wouldn't you
want to believe and this goes to I
I think I was gonna say I believe,
but I think,
that the that it's like Harry Potter. Harry
Potter, the nice thing about that was it
gave it gave solutions.
It's almost like the the,
and I was a big time
superhero comic fan when I was a kid.
I I I bought them all the time.
Superman, Batman, Aquaman, slash The whole superhero thing
is all about magical powers. Right.
Right?
Right. So this is and this is is
this within cultures? Yes. It's it's, again, throughout
the world. This is part
of culture. If you believe in that Mhmm.
That You want to believe in that. That
Superman, you know, could see
through well, this is part of its appeal
because people want solutions. And that's that's where
I think this is taking us. And therefore,
that need can be manipulated by power elites
Mhmm. Who claim to be the authorities and
the holders of the keys. And and, you
know, the whole notion of trying to establish
what is sane and not sane Mhmm. Is
really about
what is allowable by the authorities
and what is not. Yes.
Right.
Who has the power to be able to
say that? They're the ones who dictate it,
or they're protecting themselves from what they perceive
as a threat.
That's right. Yeah. And that's why they use
that. Right.
So okay. Well, well, that's interesting. That's an
interesting Like, the Wizard of Oz, I think,
was a marvelous metaphor for that. But when
when Dorothy pulls the curtain back Yes. And
she sees Oh, yes. What the authority was
was really about.
Pay no attention to the man behind the
curtain. The curtain. There is yes. Pay no
attention to the man behind the.
Pay no attention to the man behind the
the bema. Pay no attention to the man
behind
Yes. Whatever it happens to be along those
lines. Absolutely. It's in the blank. Yeah. It's
it's a that that's that's
very but The Wizard of Oz story, by
the way, is is is quite a deep
story if you really, really look into it.
Not to get off onto that, but,
but there's a lot of,
symbolism, a significant
symbolism in that in that story. A remarkable
amount and, there's a
very, very profound connection
between the Ramayana
and The Wizard of Oz and the story
of flying monkeys.
Okay. Yeah. And that exists in the and
Ramayana, by the way, is one of the
great one of the great Hindu myths. And
that also goes to the idea that there
really isn't
anything new anymore. It's or and there hasn't
been in quite some time
that as as we said before, Shakespeare really
didn't create any of his plots. Or that
that that,
who's the author? Frank,
of the was it of Oz? Oh, Bum.
Frank Bum? Yeah. Yeah. Frank Gell Bum? Yeah.
Just
took a really good story that millions and
millions of people had been believing in for
Right. Millennia Right. And said, well, if it's
good enough for them, let's let's trans transmute
it for the west. Sure. Whether that was
done consciously or subconsciously, it doesn't really matter.
We don't know. It's Yeah. But that that's
There will always be a willingness to it
that would be almost plagiaristic if it occurred
today, I think.
Well, it possibly, if we care enough about
the other version of it. Yes. That's right.
If we don't, then we don't care. If
if
if enough people even knew about it then.
Right. Right. Which in in the Here. In
the English speaking world, we probably did not.
Right. Right. Most likely. So check out the
Ramayana,
folks, if you don't know it. College, and
it made me think of Star Wars.
You know? It's that Interesting. Okay. Structure. Well,
Star Wars is nothing new in Star Wars
either. I hate to tell that. A thick
structure.
Right. That's right.
Yeah. Sure. All of all of those types
of things are. Not that there's anything wrong
with that. There that is No. It it
obviously Why not build on really fine structure?
Yeah. Yeah. May build on a good foundation.
Enjoy it. Sure. That that's always the problem.
You know, when something is that good you
get people, let's let's let's use it again
somehow, which is fine Mhmm. As long as
you don't Well, you've gotta you've gotta bring
but you've gotta bring your own Gotta bring
your own message to it or your own,
twist to it. Yep. It's it's the hero's
journey, Joseph Campbell, and you just adapt. Yeah.
Right. That's right.
Well, alright then.
Okay. Listen. The way to get hold of
us is oops culture show atgmail.com,
And our Twitter handle
is oops culture show. Whether this is the
first episode or the third episode or whatever
episode that you've listened to, if you're still
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But do it today. Okay? Subscribe. Thank you.
I never got the fortune telling thing. Well,
that's because they tell you things you don't
wanna hear. No. No. No. They tell me
no. They they don't they sometimes tell me
things I don't wanna I remember one time
I went I went on I went on
a fortune telling
spree. Did you? I did. Did you? I
went to 4 different fortune tellers. I wouldn't
believe anything he says from this point on.
In one
day.
Anything he says
from
this point on. In one day. In one
day,
we went from one fortune teller to another.
And the thing about it is this,
why would I give my money?
It's like we're
why would I give my money to somebody
who if they knew the future Right. For
everybody else Right.
Why would they be doing this? Right. And
why wouldn't they just do it for themselves?
Absolutely.
Absolutely. Just go to the stock market and
make a $1,000,000,000
and and move on. Well, it's like this
that's the same thing. This crummy little storefront.
Right. Well,
it's the same reason why I don't get
I don't wanna give my money, the little
that I have to a stock broker.
Because if you knew how to invest my
money,
then you don't need my money. Right. You
shouldn't need my money. Just go invest the
money you have and, and live happily ever
after. Exactly. Now I know there are lots
of other reasons why I need a financial
analyst. Of course, I need an analyst. Yeah.
See, you're believing in the magic. Right. I
need an analyst in a lot of areas.
Right. But
but but nevertheless,
you know, why would I need a fortune
teller? Why would I believe with a fortune
teller? Well, but but but it goes to
so many other areas too. The the groundhog
in the US. But
but here's my point. Oh, wait. Here's the
point. Hold hold on. Hold your groundhog.
Okay. Hold your groundhog. Yes. I've got my
groundhog.
He's got no idea. He's got no idea
at all.
Nothing.
Nothing. Why am I not surprised? I'm not
surprised.
Is that something to do with the fortune
teller?
Yeah.
And you had to go to the round
hog, and then it threw out my head.
Throw it on me. That's that's why I'm
here.
Oh, wow.
I'll just take my blame and move along.
Oh, is it time for magical penance on
my part now? I think it is. I
think it might be. Yes.
I think you should feel very sorry for
me right now. But I was going to
say let me go to my groundhog, and
you can sit over there and Try to
get it back. Magically remember what you have
forgotten.
The groundhog
is is this silly silly superstition
that came about who knows why, which I
I think it's simply meaning we took an
animal. And this is in the US. I
do not know if they do it anywhere
else in the world. Hopefully, they probably do
their own versions, but it's an incredibly
stupid superstition.
I'm sure the people in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania
will be very upset about me saying this.
Yes. Hopefully, they're not stupid. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah.
Sorry, Punxsutawney.
I'm sure you're all lovely. Sorry? No. I'm
not sorry at all. Okay.
So if this if this
large, woolly, furry rat It's not that large.
Right? Well, it's it's bigger than a regular
rat, except some of them in New York.
But but most of them. And if when
that comes out of its burrow, its den
that they keep it in, and it comes
out, if it sees its shadow, it goes
back in, and there's 6 more weeks of
winter. Supposedly.
Well, well, no. Not no. In there were
6 more weeks of winter. But it'll be
a rough winter or a mild winter. Right.
It's either gonna you're gonna get over and
have a little bit what we would refer
to as maybe an early spring. Obviously, this
is only important to people living in climates
that are,
seasonal,
specifically seasonal.
So you that's that's the idea. If he
doesn't see his shadow or she doesn't see
her shadow Is it a he or a
I don't Nepaxitani Phil, I'm assuming, but it
could be sure for Phyllis.
Mhmm. But Or Phyllis. Mhmm. What was yours?
Phyllisia. Or Phyllisia. Okay.
But it I I don't believe it is
a it is a male. And,
regard we'll use they and move on from
there. If they see their shadow
and then then 6 more weeks. If they
do not, well then spring is right around
the corner. Now
over the years,
this has
been shown
to be utter nonsense.
And it it really isn't a a safe
prediction. Not to mention that, like, every little
area now has some critter
who is doing the same thing all on
February 2nd, which is known as Groundhog Day.
And and that's when we bring them out.
So
is it is it going to be right?
Well, it's a 5050
chance.
You could flip a coin and get that,
but then, no, there is a scientific aspect
to it because
or if I'm running a ski, hill mountain,
I, probably would like 6 more weeks of
winter. If I am looking forward to warmer
weather and getting outside more and so on
and so forth, I don't want it. So
to some group,
Punxsutawney is going to give a an answer
that they are not pleased with or they're
very pleased with. And those who are very
pleased with at the time when they're very
pleased with it, why not buy into it?
It's telling me what I wanna hear. Well,
especially when authorities
are verifying. Blessing. Mhmm. That's right. I mean,
the media covers this thing when they take
the rat out of the hole. And but
they cover it for one simple reason. People
are paying attention. If you don't pay attention,
the media doesn't cover it. And that's the
point. They they believe it. And and the
thing about in in in Punxsutawney, Philip, Pennsylvania,
it is a
it is a moneymaker for them.
As,
you know, the,
Loch Ness monster is for,
the Loch Ness area of Scotland. No. And
now that's another, you know, any kind of
myth making thing. You know? Right.
There's a magical element to myth. Yes. Absolutely.
Myth Yeti. Yeah. Myth is a magical story.
Mhmm. It's a story based on a magical
a fabulous creature. A fabulous creature that may
have threads of reality and truth to it.
Or the gods which is why the gods
always looked human
when they were depicted so that we could
so that the listener to the story could
relate to the myth. Sure. Right?
I mean, if you make the gods
featureless
or looking like something else, if you made
them look like a different creature other than
humans and they had different attributes. Mhmm. Right?
So a lot of the Greek gods would
be the satyrs would be half human and
half,
Horse. Horse, is it? Right? And That that
would give them certain attributes. And back to
your point about the magic of charms and
animals having certain characteristics and animals being able
to
so the wise fox.
Yes.
The the Oh, the wise owl. The wise
owl. The sly fox. The sly fox. Right.
Right. The, Giving them human characteristics. Right. And
you have the not not to slander their
beliefs in this part of the system, but
the cows in India
and and the the the developments that they
have to the to the greater mix.
And all of these things intertwine, whether they
are based on more of of reality or
stronger beliefs.
I don't know that that it it can
be it's gonna be dictated by the time
element.
And it's it's like if you asked me
before, what would I bring back? If I'm
going back far enough,
I would bring back a microscope
and slides
so that I could show people the world
that they cannot see with their eyes. And
when they first did that, when luenoke did
that Yes. You know, people didn't believe it.
They Of course not. They they they they
jumped back in horror at what they were
seeing on the slide. Mhmm.
I still do, but that's a different story.
It's Do you know you know what those
little things on your eyelashes look like?
Well, that's They look like little rhinoceros.
In
You know that?
This is not belief.
If you scrape your eyelash right now and
put it under a mic on a slide
under a microscope,
you'd have like these little rhinoceroses.
Really? Yes. Rhinocerae.
Is it rhinocerae? Rhinoceroses?
What is it? I don't know. Did I
say rhinocerae?
Yes. Grammar time. Grammar time. Everybody loves grammar
time. Yeah. Grammar
time. Well, listen. Just Rhinocerae. Obviously, we've got
a long way to go with this. Rhinocerae.
But oh, wait. We're not
Uh-huh. Oh, licensing. Licensing? Yes. Oh, sorry. Yeah.
Okay.
When,
we had grammar time of licensing in one
swoop there.
It was big stuff. When are we gonna
have grandpa time? Speaking of
Alright.
We forgot
about that. Yeah. Well, we will do that.
We've got an upcoming podcast actually. We're gonna
do grandpa time. That's good. About, elders and
and younger and and youngers too. So Well,
youngers
age and how different cultures view age and
age. That's coming. That's coming up. As well
as you're gonna tell us about New Zealand
and your trip there because,
you have An absolutely fascinating culture and the
Maori beliefs. And again, here are Maori beliefs,
and one could view it as superstitious, or
one could view it as cultural, one could
view it as religious.
But they're magical because And it's certainly not.
Many of them have no scientific evidence Right.
To support them. Right. And yet even just
the microscope
itself,
things that could have been happening that people
said, well, that can't be real. That's that's
not. The microscope may have said, but it
is real. It is real. Right. It may
have, and they did not have that before.
So now all of a sudden you've got
this tool
that opens up an entire,
galaxy,
universe
that that we didn't realize was right there
around us.
And
and and science was saying, no. There's nothing
there. And then you see Until they Until
you could see it. It's provide the evidence.
Right. And and then they're all over it.
And that's great. That's what science does. But
it's but it's one of those kinds of
things where you cannot necessarily
just
say, well, that's just superstition. Yeah. It Or
something along those lines. Because it might might
not be. And if you but if you
do the argument in reverse, it becomes difficult
because because what happened was everybody there before
the microscope was invented Yes. Could not see
this other world. No. Therefore, you couldn't make
a case for its existence which is why
Pasteur had such a hard problem with that.
Right. He thought that it was microscopic germs
that were causing the illnesses Yes. But he
couldn't prove it. So people said if you
can't if I can't see it, if I
don't have the evidence Right. Then I then
you're asking me to believe something
I cannot see, therefore I can't do that.
Except when people want to. Except when it's
a good thing for them. No. Right. If
it's penicillin,
that's a no, that's a good thing. No.
But then they'll believe in, you know, all
sorts of amazing fabulous stories Right. That that
have absolutely no basis whatsoever Right. But that
are
given by authority.
And then the response to that is even
though I can't be proven, I believe it
anyway. Well, yes. And and look It works
in both directions. But I'll give you another
area too, another part another
aspect of that and and then I I
have a fortune to tell here.
But and that would be
in when you start talking about,
UFOs and creatures from another world or outer
space or and in the United States, there's
an area a place called Area 51,
which is supposedly hiding,
people from other or creatures from other other
galaxies, other planets who have come to Earth
and they've been captured or crashed there or
whatever. And and they have there, and that
is to this day. Now the funny thing
about that It's called New York City. The
authority. It's where everything in the world is.
Well, yes. True. That's it. Or that. That's
Area 51. That's Area 51. But the funny
thing about that is that people keep responding
to that, and it grows and grows and
grows and grows in power.
To this day, the Internet is talking about
getting millions of people and rushing the place
now. Currently, at the time we were recording
this, they're talking about doing that. And and
and they're saying, oh, you know, that that
you can't do that, but if you do,
we'll probably kill you. So there's the authority
figures kind of verifying things in a negative
way.
And and as opposed to the going, this
you must believe, they're going, no. No. You
shouldn't believe. And the belief is so strong
or wants to be so strong that it
actually takes it and runs it and makes
it even bigger. Yeah. It is. I I'm
fascinated
I'm fascinated with the fact that people will
choose to believe
something that they have no evidence for
and then disbelieve things
that there is plenty of evidence for. Right.
Which only goes to show
that the choice that's being made
of what you actually wanna believe in is
based on
not fact
and not belief, but rather
on fear
and desire.
And selfishness.
Well, fear and desire as you know. Which
come out of that. That's that's right. Right.
That's right. Absolutely. Which can be reinforced by
the authorities.
Absolutely.
Or denied, which makes our interest peaked even
more.
The
thing I'm going to now predict for us
here, going into the television. The
the the future that you're looking into? Yes.
The crystal ball? That's right. Yeah. That's the
other thing. A crystal ball. Yeah.
They're kinda cool looking. That may just simply
be what that is about. Crystal and and
who had control the magical forces because I
couldn't do with a crystal ball what the
fortune teller does with the crystal ball. You
know where we're going here? The the orbs
come become very big players in in different
parts of the world too. The orbs. Yeah.
But I'm going to see into the future
right now. What is your future? The future
is that that that we're done with this
podcast today.
So yeah.
Oh.
Do you believe in magic?
Oh, here we go again. Ding.
Licensing? Yes.
I know I told them already, but okay.
Alright.
Toren,
we I'm going to say thank you for
for your efforts today and your rabbit's foot,
and I hope you have good luck throughout
the day. Well, thank you very much. You're
welcome. To you as well. And and and
let me spit on the ground three times,
to get rid of any kind of horror
you might be walking around. Also, knocking on
wood while we do it. Are you knocking
on wood? Yeah. I'm knocking on wood here.
So so anyway, that's that's that's magic for
today. And magically, I am correct with my
prediction.
And and this is the end of, this
particular podcast. And I'm Tom Peterson. And I'm
Dean Foster. And you know what, everyone?
Oops.
Your culture's showing.
Smell you.
Just wanna bother you one last time to
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Oops Your Culture Showing,
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Your Culture Showing,
thanks.