1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,405 - Well, here we are talking about really 2 00:00:02,885 --> 00:00:03,965 relevant things in the world. 3 00:00:04,185 --> 00:00:05,645 - Oh my God, that sounds so serious. 4 00:00:05,995 --> 00:00:07,845 - Well, . - But here we are. 5 00:00:07,865 --> 00:00:10,045 But we're, but we were here just last night. 6 00:00:10,065 --> 00:00:11,285 We went out to dinner. Actually. 7 00:00:11,285 --> 00:00:13,005 - We did go, we did go out to dinner last night. Yeah. It 8 00:00:13,005 --> 00:00:14,125 - Was a lovely, I had a lovely - Time. 9 00:00:14,185 --> 00:00:15,605 It was very, very nice. The food was good. 10 00:00:15,665 --> 00:00:18,325 The company was meh. Oh, . 11 00:00:18,705 --> 00:00:19,765 - Ah. Oh, 12 00:00:20,445 --> 00:00:21,445 - I didn't realize that. 13 00:00:21,445 --> 00:00:23,925 Explain words. What? I thought the company was delightful. 14 00:00:24,115 --> 00:00:26,685 - Well, no, I uh, I kid, I kid, 15 00:00:27,265 --> 00:00:30,245 the company was smart and funny. Well, it 16 00:00:30,245 --> 00:00:31,245 - Wouldn't go that far. 17 00:00:31,245 --> 00:00:34,925 - Okay. I agree. Um, um, yeah. 18 00:00:35,185 --> 00:00:37,965 We were out there and to knew, 19 00:00:37,965 --> 00:00:39,725 had noticed something about that night. What was it? 20 00:00:39,825 --> 00:00:40,965 - It was a freezing cold night. 21 00:00:41,505 --> 00:00:43,725 - It was very cold. - Yes. I was also there. 22 00:00:44,715 --> 00:00:47,455 And , I noticed that, uh, Dean, 23 00:00:47,555 --> 00:00:49,495 you were wearing a coat that 24 00:00:49,495 --> 00:00:50,535 - Had a little, uh, of many colors. 25 00:00:51,015 --> 00:00:52,815 A no, actually many colors. Oh, actually just one 26 00:00:52,815 --> 00:00:53,815 - Coat. 27 00:00:53,815 --> 00:00:54,095 We were calling you Joe, I believe 28 00:00:54,185 --> 00:00:55,185 - We're now Yeah. 29 00:00:55,185 --> 00:00:56,255 We're gonna list all the colors now. Yeah. 30 00:00:56,595 --> 00:00:59,255 Um, no, it was, it was an orange coat. Right. 31 00:00:59,255 --> 00:01:00,375 And it looked very warm 32 00:01:00,795 --> 00:01:03,415 and it had a little insignia that said an Antarctica 33 00:01:03,415 --> 00:01:04,415 - On it. 34 00:01:04,415 --> 00:01:05,175 Right, right. So I was very intrigued. Yeah. 35 00:01:05,175 --> 00:01:09,375 Bo both my wife and I were wearing our Antarctica jackets, 36 00:01:09,585 --> 00:01:10,895 which are jackets that are given 37 00:01:10,895 --> 00:01:13,855 to you if you go on this cruise to Antarctica. 38 00:01:14,675 --> 00:01:16,575 And, um, it's part of it 39 00:01:16,575 --> 00:01:19,975 because the, um, the company wisely doesn't want anybody 40 00:01:20,035 --> 00:01:22,015 to freeze the death they 41 00:01:22,015 --> 00:01:23,015 - Take. 42 00:01:23,015 --> 00:01:24,015 Are they orange? So they won't lose you. 43 00:01:24,235 --> 00:01:26,735 - And they are orange. So that against the, the 44 00:01:26,795 --> 00:01:28,175 - Ice. Yeah. Stand, 45 00:01:28,665 --> 00:01:30,055 - Stand out. Sure. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, 46 00:01:30,375 --> 00:01:31,415 - Absolutely. A lot of sense. Right. 47 00:01:31,415 --> 00:01:35,335 - Because you are literally walking on, on the continent 48 00:01:35,635 --> 00:01:38,415 of the Antarctica and it's vast, 49 00:01:38,635 --> 00:01:39,635 - Uh, yeah. 50 00:01:39,635 --> 00:01:42,255 - Vast beyond, beyond words. Yeah. 51 00:01:42,635 --> 00:01:44,615 And there are no people, 52 00:01:44,825 --> 00:01:47,015 there are no towns, there are no cities. 53 00:01:47,145 --> 00:01:49,535 There are penguins and seals, birds, 54 00:01:49,815 --> 00:01:50,535 - , right. At ice. 55 00:01:50,795 --> 00:01:51,935 - And scientists. 56 00:01:52,185 --> 00:01:55,455 Those are the only people on Antarctica, essentially. Right. 57 00:01:55,485 --> 00:01:58,895 Yeah. Um, from all over the world who have 58 00:01:58,895 --> 00:01:59,975 to communicate with each other. 59 00:02:00,555 --> 00:02:04,495 And so therein is an issue of culture, which really anybody 60 00:02:04,495 --> 00:02:06,135 who goes to Antarctica is going 61 00:02:06,135 --> 00:02:08,255 to view the experience through their own life. 62 00:02:08,475 --> 00:02:10,095 And my life has to deal with culture 63 00:02:10,095 --> 00:02:12,655 because this is after all, 64 00:02:14,005 --> 00:02:15,775 - Oops. Your culture 65 00:02:16,075 --> 00:02:17,075 - Is - Showing. 66 00:02:24,555 --> 00:02:26,935 - And I'm Dean Foster. - And I'm Tom Peterson. 67 00:02:27,475 --> 00:02:30,095 And with us in studio today, we also have 68 00:02:31,105 --> 00:02:32,655 - Torin . That's me. 69 00:02:32,655 --> 00:02:35,535 - Welcome. Torin. - Hi. Hey. That's my name 70 00:02:36,155 --> 00:02:39,255 - Who invited - . I'm having fun. 71 00:02:39,515 --> 00:02:41,415 - And we're talking about, okay. We're talking about Orange 72 00:02:41,565 --> 00:02:44,775 Jackets and Antarctica and Yes, it's interesting. 73 00:02:44,775 --> 00:02:46,975 And culture. And for me, it's kind of interesting 74 00:02:46,975 --> 00:02:49,215 because you talk about culture in a place 75 00:02:49,215 --> 00:02:52,255 where there really isn't a culture except Right. 76 00:02:52,835 --> 00:02:57,135 The human population is very few and far between. 77 00:02:57,135 --> 00:02:58,535 They're in research stations 78 00:02:58,835 --> 00:03:00,725 and they're scientists from all over the world 79 00:03:01,505 --> 00:03:02,845 who have to communicate with each other. 80 00:03:02,945 --> 00:03:06,325 So I guess there's a cultural element to that is in my work, 81 00:03:06,505 --> 00:03:07,805 I'm always trying, Tom. Sure. There 82 00:03:07,805 --> 00:03:08,805 - Is. 83 00:03:08,805 --> 00:03:10,485 I can't see how they could avoid it. Right, right. 84 00:03:10,635 --> 00:03:13,925 That would, you're going to have, you know, there's, 85 00:03:14,105 --> 00:03:15,405 and I've heard people talk about this. 86 00:03:15,545 --> 00:03:18,285 I'm not a scientist and, uh, not even close. 87 00:03:18,865 --> 00:03:22,725 So, but it is a, there is a culture in science 88 00:03:23,745 --> 00:03:25,405 and a way of doing things. 89 00:03:25,405 --> 00:03:29,565 Certainly there is a scientific method that is universal in, 90 00:03:29,565 --> 00:03:31,245 uh, in the, in the sense of the planet. 91 00:03:31,275 --> 00:03:33,165 It's universal among scientists, 92 00:03:34,185 --> 00:03:35,925 but not where they come from. 93 00:03:35,975 --> 00:03:36,925 Right. And I mentioned that 94 00:03:36,925 --> 00:03:37,925 was like astronauts as well, right. 95 00:03:38,205 --> 00:03:39,885 Impacted that. I would think so. Countries Sure. 96 00:03:39,885 --> 00:03:41,325 And spending close, wait a minute, are close. 97 00:03:41,385 --> 00:03:43,725 Are there astronauts in Antarctica? Yes. Well, actually 98 00:03:45,295 --> 00:03:48,485 - Maybe we actually did some work many years back, um, 99 00:03:48,625 --> 00:03:50,565 on one of the Mars missions, um, 100 00:03:52,105 --> 00:03:53,105 - On the continent there? 101 00:03:53,265 --> 00:03:56,045 - No, not in Antarctica. This was in the United States. 102 00:03:56,345 --> 00:03:58,085 Um, teams that were working from 103 00:03:58,085 --> 00:03:59,085 - Russia. 104 00:03:59,085 --> 00:03:59,445 Oh, you did some work with Russian 105 00:03:59,625 --> 00:04:00,625 - And American teams. 106 00:04:00,735 --> 00:04:03,165 Uhhuh , yeah. Who were having to work on, 107 00:04:03,225 --> 00:04:04,565 on the Mars Mission together. 108 00:04:04,565 --> 00:04:06,165 Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we did the 109 00:04:06,165 --> 00:04:07,525 cross-cultural support on that. 110 00:04:07,545 --> 00:04:10,045 Oh, mm-Hmm. . And, and yes, the, the need for 111 00:04:10,045 --> 00:04:11,805 that kind of understanding, uh, 112 00:04:11,825 --> 00:04:14,685 in the scientific research community is great. 113 00:04:14,685 --> 00:04:15,885 Mm-Hmm. . Sure. Mm-Hmm. . So we 114 00:04:15,885 --> 00:04:17,765 could have gone down to Antarctica to do 115 00:04:17,765 --> 00:04:19,165 that, which would've been lovely. 116 00:04:19,405 --> 00:04:20,685 'cause then someone would've been actually 117 00:04:20,685 --> 00:04:23,085 paying me to make the trip. Right. But that 118 00:04:23,085 --> 00:04:24,285 - Didn't happen. No, 119 00:04:24,565 --> 00:04:25,565 - . 120 00:04:25,565 --> 00:04:28,525 So there I am in Antarctica, in my orange jacket, so 121 00:04:28,525 --> 00:04:30,325 that I stand out against the snow so 122 00:04:30,325 --> 00:04:31,525 that they don't lose me. 123 00:04:31,985 --> 00:04:34,245 And Good. And my wife probably good. Yeah. 124 00:04:34,465 --> 00:04:36,965 And about, uh, 30 other people. Okay. 125 00:04:37,025 --> 00:04:39,405 And, um, you, you, 126 00:04:39,845 --> 00:04:42,045 I understand you can fly into Antarctica, 127 00:04:42,045 --> 00:04:44,965 but that's not typically the way most of the time you do it. 128 00:04:45,105 --> 00:04:46,645 So you took a boat, you have to take a ship. 129 00:04:46,945 --> 00:04:50,725 So you, you, uh, we flew down from New York to Buenos Aires 130 00:04:50,725 --> 00:04:53,925 and from Buenos Aires to us, which is the ccb ah, 131 00:04:54,045 --> 00:04:55,485 tiara del Tiara del Fuego. 132 00:04:55,585 --> 00:04:58,205 - Oh, that's - Cool. And the furthest south southern 133 00:04:58,215 --> 00:04:59,405 point in the Americas. 134 00:04:59,905 --> 00:05:01,805 And that's Cape Horn. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. 135 00:05:01,845 --> 00:05:03,205 right there. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. And then you get 136 00:05:03,205 --> 00:05:04,445 on a ship, and for two 137 00:05:04,445 --> 00:05:07,645 or three days you sail across days, the Drake passage Wow. 138 00:05:08,265 --> 00:05:09,645 To Antarctica. 139 00:05:09,645 --> 00:05:11,245 And you, and you wake up that morning 140 00:05:11,545 --> 00:05:12,605 and the sun is shining, 141 00:05:12,625 --> 00:05:15,165 and you open the, the ship's window of your cabin, 142 00:05:15,745 --> 00:05:17,885 and you see this other continent. Mm. 143 00:05:18,155 --> 00:05:20,205 - Yeah. - Which for all intents 144 00:05:20,205 --> 00:05:23,285 and purposes, doesn't belong there in my mind 145 00:05:23,745 --> 00:05:26,645 as I'm looking at it, because I was just at the southern 146 00:05:26,715 --> 00:05:28,925 most point of the earth. Mm. 147 00:05:28,925 --> 00:05:31,925 - Mm-Hmm. or, so you thought or Land's end. 148 00:05:32,035 --> 00:05:34,245 - Yeah. Land's end. Yeah. But it wasn't, yeah. 149 00:05:34,245 --> 00:05:36,005 There's yet more to come. Were 150 00:05:36,005 --> 00:05:40,285 - You able to walk around - On the continents? 151 00:05:40,285 --> 00:05:44,205 Yes, absolutely. So the, the, the ship, um, docks as close 152 00:05:44,265 --> 00:05:46,005 to land as it possibly can. 153 00:05:46,145 --> 00:05:49,445 Mm. And then you go out in zodiacs 154 00:05:49,445 --> 00:05:50,925 that are kind of like these dinghy. 155 00:05:51,475 --> 00:05:53,165 - Yeah. The inflatable crafts. Inflatable 156 00:05:53,165 --> 00:05:54,165 - Crafts. 157 00:05:54,165 --> 00:05:57,935 And the zodiacs go between the ship and the actual land. Mm. 158 00:05:58,115 --> 00:06:01,255 So, uh, it was quite a remarkable moment for me, 159 00:06:01,515 --> 00:06:03,855 uh, emotional, really. 160 00:06:03,885 --> 00:06:07,455 When you step out of that, um, zodiac 161 00:06:07,595 --> 00:06:10,415 and you put your foot onto the continent of Antarctica. 162 00:06:10,565 --> 00:06:14,215 Yeah. It's, it was, it was a, it was a very moving moment. 163 00:06:14,595 --> 00:06:18,175 I'm not quite sure why, except that I was there. Uh, me. 164 00:06:18,205 --> 00:06:19,535 - Well, - That's fascinating. 165 00:06:19,915 --> 00:06:20,975 - And the penguins, - You, could you 166 00:06:21,025 --> 00:06:22,895 comprehend where you were? 167 00:06:23,975 --> 00:06:26,515 Was it, was it star so stark that it was, 168 00:06:26,775 --> 00:06:28,515 or not stark maybe is not the right word, 169 00:06:28,615 --> 00:06:31,075 but was it the, was there an ability? 170 00:06:31,255 --> 00:06:34,595 I'm only saying that in the sense that it, 171 00:06:34,625 --> 00:06:37,235 sometimes in my experience when I've gone somewhere 172 00:06:37,235 --> 00:06:40,915 different, it has been, it's been almost a, um, 173 00:06:41,135 --> 00:06:45,315 an interesting aspect of my, of, of my adapting to it, in 174 00:06:45,315 --> 00:06:47,835 that it, it suddenly doesn't seem that different. 175 00:06:48,255 --> 00:06:50,515 It just seems it's another space that I'm in. I 176 00:06:50,515 --> 00:06:51,915 - Think you're raising a very important point. 177 00:06:52,185 --> 00:06:54,715 Okay. Yes. Because I think one of my initial reactions, 178 00:06:54,715 --> 00:06:55,915 and you can have many mm-Hmm. 179 00:06:55,955 --> 00:06:57,115 , you know, I think you don't wanna filter 180 00:06:57,565 --> 00:06:59,155 these different feelings out, 181 00:06:59,215 --> 00:07:01,395 and they can be overwhelming a little bit. 182 00:07:01,735 --> 00:07:04,995 But one of many feelings reactions I had was, 183 00:07:05,415 --> 00:07:06,715 uh, oh, this is not so different. 184 00:07:06,745 --> 00:07:09,675 I've been in cold places, I've seen mountains before. 185 00:07:09,865 --> 00:07:12,195 I've seen striking sunshine before. Mm-Hmm. 186 00:07:12,235 --> 00:07:13,395 , uh, I've even seen 187 00:07:13,395 --> 00:07:14,795 penguins before in the zoo. 188 00:07:15,295 --> 00:07:17,355 Um, so it's not so different. 189 00:07:17,755 --> 00:07:21,315 I think we tend to want to see similarities in order 190 00:07:21,315 --> 00:07:24,115 to be able to encompass the experience. 191 00:07:24,225 --> 00:07:26,235 Sure. We have to relate it to something that know that's 192 00:07:26,405 --> 00:07:27,795 - Point. Sure. Right. 193 00:07:28,015 --> 00:07:29,355 - Are you walking on ice 194 00:07:29,495 --> 00:07:31,915 or are you walking on more land dirt? 195 00:07:32,345 --> 00:07:33,995 - Well, it depends. What are you able to walk on? 196 00:07:34,035 --> 00:07:37,235 I mean, there, there's gravel actually, uh, like a, like, 197 00:07:37,305 --> 00:07:38,755 like a beach head, uh, okay. 198 00:07:38,755 --> 00:07:39,915 Where you're walking on land. 199 00:07:40,055 --> 00:07:43,115 Um, but then the gravel very, very quickly becomes ice. 200 00:07:43,315 --> 00:07:44,635 - I see. But there's enough there where you could walk. 201 00:07:44,755 --> 00:07:46,395 I, 'cause I assume that's where you were probably walking. 202 00:07:46,575 --> 00:07:48,835 - Yes. That's where the dingy pulls in. Okay. 203 00:07:49,095 --> 00:07:52,075 And but literally within yards of that, you're on ice. Yeah. 204 00:07:52,075 --> 00:07:54,555 - Because then that's more, you know, familiar ground, 205 00:07:55,195 --> 00:07:57,195 somewhat than if you're having to go walk 206 00:07:57,195 --> 00:07:58,195 - On this. 207 00:07:58,195 --> 00:07:58,195 There's, there's some length 208 00:07:58,195 --> 00:07:59,435 glacier now. Yeah. You mean? Yeah. Yeah. 209 00:07:59,485 --> 00:08:03,755 - Right. And, and so I tended, as you described Tom, to try 210 00:08:03,755 --> 00:08:07,835 to see similarities there, I think in order to, um, 211 00:08:08,555 --> 00:08:12,035 minimize the, uh, the reality Mm. 212 00:08:12,055 --> 00:08:13,875 - Of being the overwhelming aspects of it, 213 00:08:13,935 --> 00:08:15,915 - Of being in a place so far away. 214 00:08:16,145 --> 00:08:18,355 - Sure. And well, it's interesting too 215 00:08:18,355 --> 00:08:20,035 because we do relate that, because you can even say 216 00:08:20,035 --> 00:08:23,675 that if you listen to the, the feed back to 217 00:08:24,655 --> 00:08:27,535 the Earth from the first people 218 00:08:27,595 --> 00:08:28,975 who walked on the moon, right. 219 00:08:28,975 --> 00:08:31,655 Neil Armstrong, buzz Aldrin, when they were their, 220 00:08:31,665 --> 00:08:33,655 their first things are, and I'm, 221 00:08:33,655 --> 00:08:35,295 and sure there's an aspect that science 222 00:08:35,355 --> 00:08:36,695 and stuff like that that goes with that. 223 00:08:36,995 --> 00:08:39,575 But they are then comparing it to 224 00:08:39,575 --> 00:08:40,695 what they know about the earth. 225 00:08:41,295 --> 00:08:44,655 Hmm. You know, he's talking about the, the depth, the depth 226 00:08:44,755 --> 00:08:48,175 of the dust, similar to when he gives some examples 227 00:08:48,195 --> 00:08:49,855 and stuff like that as he is going around 228 00:08:49,855 --> 00:08:51,415 because it's familiar. 229 00:08:51,615 --> 00:08:53,655 'cause this, this is otherworldly, 230 00:08:53,795 --> 00:08:54,815 - It is otherworldly - . 231 00:08:54,815 --> 00:08:57,805 And, and, and that would appear to be too I, yeah. 232 00:08:58,035 --> 00:09:02,125 - Only is, is, um, I, I think it's hard 233 00:09:02,125 --> 00:09:03,845 to do if not terrifying. 234 00:09:03,945 --> 00:09:05,605 Mm-Hmm. So you wanna relate it to things 235 00:09:05,605 --> 00:09:07,325 that you make you feel comfortable. Sure. 236 00:09:07,325 --> 00:09:08,885 - Right. Yeah. And relate to it. Right. 237 00:09:08,945 --> 00:09:11,725 - And then the, and then a penguin walks up to you, . 238 00:09:12,665 --> 00:09:15,325 And then I'm reminded, oh, this is very 239 00:09:16,005 --> 00:09:17,005 - Probably different. 240 00:09:17,005 --> 00:09:18,845 This is pretty different. This is, yeah. Did you have, um, 241 00:09:19,095 --> 00:09:20,485 maybe scientists there 242 00:09:20,585 --> 00:09:22,565 or sort of experts to guide you through 243 00:09:22,565 --> 00:09:23,565 - What you were seeing? 244 00:09:23,585 --> 00:09:25,885 We did. We were on a remarkable, um, trip. 245 00:09:26,185 --> 00:09:29,485 And, um, there were, uh, experts and scientists with us. 246 00:09:29,665 --> 00:09:33,565 And, um, on this particular trip we had, uh, 247 00:09:34,175 --> 00:09:38,965 Christiana Es, who is, uh, a foremost climate expert. 248 00:09:39,625 --> 00:09:42,605 And so there was a lot of emphasis in this trip on the whole 249 00:09:42,605 --> 00:09:44,205 issue of climate and climate change 250 00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:46,165 and how it affects Antarctica 251 00:09:46,225 --> 00:09:47,845 and subsequently the rest of the world. 252 00:09:48,185 --> 00:09:52,765 Uh, Christiana in fact, led the, um, un, um, 253 00:09:53,515 --> 00:09:56,165 climate talks, the Paris Treaty, 254 00:09:56,355 --> 00:09:58,125 that was the first big Paris treat 255 00:09:58,125 --> 00:09:59,125 - Treaty. 256 00:09:59,125 --> 00:09:59,445 Oh, interesting. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. 257 00:09:59,465 --> 00:10:00,645 That's a big deal. That, that 258 00:10:00,645 --> 00:10:01,645 - Yeah. 259 00:10:01,645 --> 00:10:03,085 That first big agreement many years. But other 260 00:10:03,085 --> 00:10:05,325 - Than that, she'd done . Yeah. 261 00:10:05,585 --> 00:10:08,125 - And she spoke about her, that whole experience 262 00:10:08,305 --> 00:10:10,285 and how culturally fraught that was. 263 00:10:10,385 --> 00:10:12,045 Oh my goodness. Yeah. Wow. And, 264 00:10:12,045 --> 00:10:13,205 - Um, in a way still is. 265 00:10:13,395 --> 00:10:14,685 Yeah. It's very much still is 266 00:10:14,885 --> 00:10:15,885 - . 267 00:10:15,885 --> 00:10:17,725 And, and, and I remember a very interesting conversation 268 00:10:17,895 --> 00:10:21,485 about the cultural issues of getting 269 00:10:22,115 --> 00:10:23,165 climate awareness 270 00:10:23,465 --> 00:10:26,805 and climate change policies put in place 271 00:10:27,775 --> 00:10:28,845 based on culture. 272 00:10:29,865 --> 00:10:33,485 And that if we can take the, 273 00:10:34,985 --> 00:10:38,165 the cultures that are involved in this issue, 274 00:10:38,165 --> 00:10:39,485 which is all cultures in the world, 275 00:10:40,585 --> 00:10:44,365 and leverage the cultural preferences for 276 00:10:44,985 --> 00:10:47,405 how they feel about climate change Mm-Hmm. 277 00:10:47,825 --> 00:10:50,085 We can use culture as a lever 278 00:10:50,505 --> 00:10:52,485 for getting it adopted more quickly. 279 00:10:52,695 --> 00:10:55,365 Right. In other words, my thinking was 280 00:10:55,365 --> 00:10:59,845 that there are certain cultures that would get on board 281 00:10:59,845 --> 00:11:02,565 with climate with what we need to do about climate change. 282 00:11:03,225 --> 00:11:05,325 If we appeal to what, 283 00:11:06,675 --> 00:11:10,645 what their culture values, if we try to appeal to 284 00:11:10,645 --> 00:11:13,525 what the culture doesn't value, it's gonna turn them off. 285 00:11:14,545 --> 00:11:19,125 So Yeah. What do, um, what's gonna juice Americans 286 00:11:19,345 --> 00:11:22,445 to get behind climate change policies? 287 00:11:22,555 --> 00:11:25,525 Sure. What's gonna juice Chinese to get 288 00:11:25,525 --> 00:11:27,365 behind climate change policies? 289 00:11:27,365 --> 00:11:30,365 Mm. And my thinking was that we've got 290 00:11:30,365 --> 00:11:32,605 to emphasize two different things when we're talking 291 00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:33,765 to these two different groups, 292 00:11:34,155 --> 00:11:37,485 because what's gonna juice them is gonna be different Mm. 293 00:11:37,695 --> 00:11:38,925 Based on their culture. Mm. 294 00:11:39,225 --> 00:11:40,405 - And it's gonna be different. And, 295 00:11:40,465 --> 00:11:42,725 and, uh, it would seem to me that it's going 296 00:11:42,725 --> 00:11:45,485 to be even different if you've gotta sell this 297 00:11:46,225 --> 00:11:48,125 to a public as a whole. 298 00:11:48,545 --> 00:11:49,805 Within those cultures, 299 00:11:50,095 --> 00:11:52,205 those cultures aren't the same all throughout. 300 00:11:52,255 --> 00:11:55,245 Right. They have have their own idiosyncrasies, at least 301 00:11:55,865 --> 00:11:58,285 within large countries especially, 302 00:11:58,345 --> 00:11:59,685 but even in small countries. 303 00:11:59,735 --> 00:12:02,485 Right. So you've got, you've gotta juice not only the, 304 00:12:02,745 --> 00:12:04,405 the overall culture, but you've gotta be able 305 00:12:04,405 --> 00:12:08,085 to juice enough of those in individual pieces 306 00:12:08,535 --> 00:12:09,645 Right. Within those cultures. 307 00:12:09,775 --> 00:12:12,285 - Right. And, and - Other than that, it's not hard. Right. 308 00:12:12,625 --> 00:12:15,405 - And this has to cascade down from leadership and from 309 00:12:15,985 --> 00:12:18,165 and from elites who, who advocate. 310 00:12:18,165 --> 00:12:20,245 Right. Right. But how do you advocate for it? 311 00:12:20,665 --> 00:12:23,805 And, and the point is that in the US it's gotta be advocated 312 00:12:23,805 --> 00:12:25,925 around individual benefit and corporate benefit 313 00:12:26,145 --> 00:12:28,285 and economic benefit. And 314 00:12:28,675 --> 00:12:31,205 - Even the idea to make it, to, to get to the point 315 00:12:31,215 --> 00:12:36,005 where you get these people thinking that there is a, 316 00:12:37,305 --> 00:12:42,215 there is a reason to, a real reason to pay attention 317 00:12:42,275 --> 00:12:44,895 to this that they will benefit from. 318 00:12:45,185 --> 00:12:47,015 Right. A self benefit. Yeah. Uhhuh . 319 00:12:47,015 --> 00:12:49,135 And in the US as you're talking about the culture, 320 00:12:49,265 --> 00:12:51,175 since it's an individualist society, 321 00:12:51,235 --> 00:12:55,095 or at least believes this, then in, in doing so, 322 00:12:55,115 --> 00:12:57,375 you're gonna have to What's in it for me? Yeah. 323 00:12:57,485 --> 00:12:58,615 - It's the bottom line. Yeah. 324 00:12:58,615 --> 00:13:00,095 Where do I make the, where, where, 325 00:13:00,095 --> 00:13:01,735 - Where the, is this really going to impact me? 326 00:13:02,135 --> 00:13:04,255 I don't feel it on a daily basis. So look at 327 00:13:04,255 --> 00:13:06,815 - What's been happening in terms of, uh, 328 00:13:06,815 --> 00:13:08,935 social policy development from this. 329 00:13:09,315 --> 00:13:12,575 In the US we get this cell, which is based on, 330 00:13:13,525 --> 00:13:15,535 there's a green opportunity here. 331 00:13:15,535 --> 00:13:18,855 Mm-Hmm. But it's gotta be a green economic opportunity. 332 00:13:18,875 --> 00:13:22,495 Mm-Hmm. for corporations and for individuals. 333 00:13:22,505 --> 00:13:24,935 Right. Right. In, and it's gotta be green. 334 00:13:25,435 --> 00:13:26,695 I'm sorry. It's gotta be economic. 335 00:13:26,885 --> 00:13:28,455 - It's gotta be an opportunity, and it's gotta be an 336 00:13:28,455 --> 00:13:31,055 opportunity that is, doesn't come wrapped in a threat. 337 00:13:31,235 --> 00:13:33,735 - And, and it's often, it would be almost impossible 338 00:13:33,755 --> 00:13:37,575 to think of it in any other terms for us culture. 339 00:13:38,435 --> 00:13:39,815 Um, but yeah. 340 00:13:40,005 --> 00:13:43,815 That isn't the sell point for a lot 341 00:13:43,975 --> 00:13:45,895 of Asian cultures. Mm. 342 00:13:46,065 --> 00:13:47,135 - Right - Now, China 343 00:13:47,235 --> 00:13:50,655 and the US are pretty much the two big players on when it 344 00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:51,735 comes to this climate issue. 345 00:13:51,735 --> 00:13:53,815 Mm-Hmm. . So how are we gonna sell it 346 00:13:53,815 --> 00:13:54,895 in China is biggest 347 00:13:55,095 --> 00:13:55,495 - Emitters. Yeah. 348 00:13:55,675 --> 00:13:56,975 - It, and so this, 349 00:13:56,975 --> 00:14:01,015 because we've got a society based on this whole notion 350 00:14:01,765 --> 00:14:03,975 that almost doesn't exist in the us 351 00:14:04,035 --> 00:14:07,375 and in fact in the US it's, it's looked at in many ways 352 00:14:07,475 --> 00:14:11,655 as anathema, but the whole notion of doing things 353 00:14:11,755 --> 00:14:12,935 for collective good. 354 00:14:13,525 --> 00:14:17,475 - Yeah. Right. - And now that doesn't mean you, 355 00:14:18,855 --> 00:14:20,115 that's, I mean, we don't do that at all. 356 00:14:20,145 --> 00:14:22,875 That doesn't mean China's a white knight and the US isn't. 357 00:14:22,875 --> 00:14:23,875 Right. You know what we're saying. 358 00:14:24,175 --> 00:14:25,635 We all know how that gets corrupted. 359 00:14:25,815 --> 00:14:28,715 And we all know in an autocratic society like China, 360 00:14:29,015 --> 00:14:30,355 it gets very much corrupted. 361 00:14:30,375 --> 00:14:34,475 Mm. But the cell has to be based on that notion 362 00:14:34,495 --> 00:14:35,595 of collective good. 363 00:14:35,615 --> 00:14:39,805 Mm-Hmm. . And so that you, you just going 364 00:14:39,805 --> 00:14:44,285 to have to, uh, advocate for this in a very different way. 365 00:14:51,065 --> 00:14:55,165 So we presented, um, basically this theoretical framework 366 00:14:55,225 --> 00:14:57,965 for thinking about how culture impacts the adoption 367 00:14:58,185 --> 00:15:00,605 of climate change initiatives. 368 00:15:00,805 --> 00:15:03,405 Hmm. And, um, of course, they have to go 369 00:15:03,405 --> 00:15:05,925 through the political filters of the economic filters 370 00:15:05,925 --> 00:15:06,965 of all of these nations. 371 00:15:07,585 --> 00:15:10,525 Uh, and, and those are real hard realities. 372 00:15:10,715 --> 00:15:13,765 They are, I mean, the whole notion that a lot of, um, 373 00:15:14,275 --> 00:15:17,725 nations that are, that are impacted first by climate change 374 00:15:18,145 --> 00:15:19,805 of the least cause of it. 375 00:15:19,805 --> 00:15:20,805 Mm-Hmm. . And so 376 00:15:20,865 --> 00:15:23,525 how do we create some equity around that? 377 00:15:23,815 --> 00:15:26,445 Right. Yeah. Big political problems. Mm-Hmm. . 378 00:15:26,585 --> 00:15:29,245 But, but stepping back from that, 379 00:15:29,515 --> 00:15:33,685 what we were looking at solely was the issue of, um, how do, 380 00:15:33,825 --> 00:15:37,565 how do we come up with a, a, a theoretical 381 00:15:39,365 --> 00:15:44,055 roadmap for dealing with, with the cultural, uh, adoption 382 00:15:44,515 --> 00:15:46,295 of the whole idea of culture change 383 00:15:46,675 --> 00:15:49,055 and climate, uh, of the whole idea of climate change. 384 00:15:49,085 --> 00:15:52,415 Yeah. Um, and then we even spoke about Latin America. Mm. 385 00:15:52,415 --> 00:15:54,335 Okay. Where, okay, we've got Brazil, 386 00:15:54,435 --> 00:15:55,615 you know, the lungs of the world. 387 00:15:55,965 --> 00:15:58,135 There's the Yeah. There's the Amazon jungle 388 00:15:58,755 --> 00:16:00,575 and or Amazon is. 389 00:16:00,675 --> 00:16:02,135 And so how do we deal with 390 00:16:03,135 --> 00:16:05,815 adopting these ideas in Brazil? 391 00:16:05,995 --> 00:16:07,455 And at the time, uh, 392 00:16:07,515 --> 00:16:09,535 we had Bolsonaro who was in charge Mm-Hmm. 393 00:16:09,575 --> 00:16:11,295 . And he was, he was denying the whole 394 00:16:11,295 --> 00:16:12,415 existence of climate change. 395 00:16:12,415 --> 00:16:15,135 Right. But we knew that that was just a political moment, 396 00:16:15,475 --> 00:16:17,935 and that that did now disappear. 397 00:16:17,935 --> 00:16:21,095 Right. Mm-Hmm. . Um, so in Latin America, 398 00:16:21,395 --> 00:16:25,095 the cultural requirements for adoption of 399 00:16:25,195 --> 00:16:27,055 of climate change initiatives are 400 00:16:27,055 --> 00:16:28,615 different in Latin America. 401 00:16:29,135 --> 00:16:32,295 Culturally, the issue over the centuries has always been 402 00:16:32,735 --> 00:16:36,055 aligning yourself with in groups and outgroups. 403 00:16:36,365 --> 00:16:40,465 Okay. And if a country could make it a look 404 00:16:40,465 --> 00:16:44,905 as if the ingroup was now advocating for this, 405 00:16:45,375 --> 00:16:48,585 then, and, and make it so that people would, um, 406 00:16:48,855 --> 00:16:53,465 find benefit in aligning with a particular group, that 407 00:16:53,465 --> 00:16:56,945 that would be a very powerful, uh, way of getting, 408 00:16:57,055 --> 00:16:59,545 getting climate change initiatives adopted. 409 00:16:59,685 --> 00:17:01,345 So it was a fascinating, interesting trip. 410 00:17:01,845 --> 00:17:03,905 And we wrote up this theoretical roadmap 411 00:17:04,005 --> 00:17:05,705 and we presented it to the penguins. 412 00:17:06,055 --> 00:17:07,545 - Okay. And what did the Penguins say? 413 00:17:07,615 --> 00:17:09,745 Well, they had a lot to say about this. Oh, okay. Did they? 414 00:17:09,805 --> 00:17:12,505 I'm sure, yes. They, they're annoying. I find them annoying. 415 00:17:12,785 --> 00:17:14,065 . They like the squawk. It. 416 00:17:14,215 --> 00:17:15,385 They, and they think they're cool 417 00:17:15,545 --> 00:17:17,345 'cause they, they're always formally dressed. 418 00:17:17,695 --> 00:17:18,705 They, yeah. I know. You know, 419 00:17:19,245 --> 00:17:20,425 the bow ties though, chill out. 420 00:17:20,585 --> 00:17:22,865 I like the bow tie aspect. Just chill out. Penguins. It, 421 00:17:22,865 --> 00:17:26,065 - It's remarkable how refined they look Yeah. 422 00:17:26,485 --> 00:17:29,545 And how much they stink. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. 423 00:17:30,645 --> 00:17:32,625 The, the two just were dichotomy. 424 00:17:32,695 --> 00:17:34,865 They, they were a dissonance in my right. Sure. 425 00:17:34,865 --> 00:17:37,705 Because as your, as your zodiac approach, the shore, 426 00:17:38,135 --> 00:17:40,105 - I've had people say that about me, actually. 427 00:17:40,195 --> 00:17:41,265 - Especially when you're in 428 00:17:41,265 --> 00:17:42,265 - A tuxedo. 429 00:17:42,265 --> 00:17:45,465 Absolutely. Which you often are. Yeah. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. 430 00:17:45,465 --> 00:17:49,405 Yeah. Yeah. . But , you know, know it. 431 00:17:49,475 --> 00:17:52,325 It's, I I do another question about the Penguins. 432 00:17:52,705 --> 00:17:55,725 Um, in, in your experience, vast as it is 433 00:17:56,395 --> 00:17:57,805 with Penguins, did the p Yes. 434 00:17:57,805 --> 00:18:01,165 With the penguins did, could they tap dance? 435 00:18:01,545 --> 00:18:02,685 - Oh, they did. Yeah. 436 00:18:02,945 --> 00:18:04,365 You could, you can give them any tune 437 00:18:04,365 --> 00:18:05,525 you want. Yeah, sure. And 438 00:18:05,525 --> 00:18:06,525 - They, yeah. 439 00:18:06,525 --> 00:18:07,885 - Did you film Happy Feet? The sequel to Happy Feet there? 440 00:18:08,045 --> 00:18:10,085 - ? Yeah. Well, doc, could you work on that? Yeah. 441 00:18:10,385 --> 00:18:11,485 - Here's the thing about that. Not so 442 00:18:11,485 --> 00:18:12,605 - Happy Feet, another sequel, you know, 443 00:18:12,605 --> 00:18:13,845 because that's the, that's the, that's the 444 00:18:13,985 --> 00:18:15,125 not so Happy Feet, the climate 445 00:18:15,125 --> 00:18:15,965 - Change. So Happy Feet. 446 00:18:16,265 --> 00:18:17,965 - Oh. Video is the not so happy Feet, 447 00:18:18,165 --> 00:18:19,165 - Actually. 448 00:18:19,165 --> 00:18:19,845 So to that I did wanna, so, okay. I have two 449 00:18:19,925 --> 00:18:20,925 - Questions. 450 00:18:20,925 --> 00:18:21,365 Oh, we've got an actual cultural aspect. 451 00:18:21,435 --> 00:18:22,805 - This, that know, well, not, not really on this one. 452 00:18:23,275 --> 00:18:26,605 Well, I guess sort of, um, did you see effects 453 00:18:26,605 --> 00:18:27,685 of climate change in 454 00:18:27,685 --> 00:18:28,685 - Antarctica? 455 00:18:28,725 --> 00:18:29,765 - Absolutely. Did you? Okay. Yeah. 456 00:18:29,945 --> 00:18:32,845 In fact, it was very ironic that the very first day 457 00:18:32,955 --> 00:18:35,805 that we stepped out onto the ice, uh, 458 00:18:36,105 --> 00:18:39,805 and encountered a penguin colony of, I, 459 00:18:39,845 --> 00:18:41,565 I would say's tens of thousands of 460 00:18:41,565 --> 00:18:42,725 - Pens. Really? Oh my God. Oh, 461 00:18:42,725 --> 00:18:43,725 - Wow. 462 00:18:43,725 --> 00:18:45,245 Um, it's not individual. 463 00:18:46,645 --> 00:18:49,845 Interesting about the penguins is that from an 464 00:18:50,455 --> 00:18:54,995 an anthropomorphic perspective, um, it's easy to 465 00:18:55,655 --> 00:18:58,315 see them as creatures in tuxedos and, 466 00:18:58,815 --> 00:19:00,595 and waddling around cat dancing 467 00:19:00,815 --> 00:19:03,275 and tap cute, cute as hell and cute. 468 00:19:03,355 --> 00:19:04,795 It and all of that. we're 469 00:19:04,895 --> 00:19:06,755 anthropomorphizing, you know, these creatures. 470 00:19:07,155 --> 00:19:09,505 Absolutely. And they're really birds. 471 00:19:09,925 --> 00:19:13,705 And they're not living collectively, uh, in a society. 472 00:19:14,925 --> 00:19:18,345 We tend to, uh, overlay that perception on them 473 00:19:18,345 --> 00:19:19,585 because we humans do. 474 00:19:21,275 --> 00:19:24,905 - Right. - They are living with each other, not 475 00:19:24,905 --> 00:19:28,905 because there is, um, a society of behavior 476 00:19:29,415 --> 00:19:30,825 that has built up. 477 00:19:31,225 --> 00:19:33,745 'cause they're birds, they don't, for the same reason 478 00:19:33,775 --> 00:19:36,505 that birds will cluster in a bush, in a tree, 479 00:19:37,215 --> 00:19:39,305 it's merely for protection. Oh, 480 00:19:39,335 --> 00:19:40,335 - Well, that's what I was gonna say. 481 00:19:40,615 --> 00:19:42,625 It's one of the, but it that still, safety 482 00:19:42,845 --> 00:19:45,105 and security is one of the blocks of the pyramid. 483 00:19:45,435 --> 00:19:46,505 Right. Of what we 484 00:19:46,505 --> 00:19:47,505 - See. 485 00:19:47,505 --> 00:19:48,985 But a very fundamental one. There's very, very fundamentals. 486 00:19:48,985 --> 00:19:51,025 There's no society structures and rules. You're 487 00:19:51,025 --> 00:19:52,425 - Not getting beyond that. Right. Yeah. 488 00:19:52,455 --> 00:19:53,905 - Yeah. So they're not cooperating 489 00:19:53,905 --> 00:19:56,625 with each other in any way other than to be near each other 490 00:19:56,765 --> 00:19:59,665 so that there's 10,000 of them when the operation 491 00:19:59,665 --> 00:20:00,665 - Of survival. 492 00:20:00,665 --> 00:20:03,425 - Really? When - Yes. And survival of the species. Right. 493 00:20:03,575 --> 00:20:05,625 - When the, when the, the sewers, 494 00:20:05,625 --> 00:20:07,985 which are these huge birds, uh, 495 00:20:07,985 --> 00:20:11,185 almost prehistoric looking things come swooping in 496 00:20:11,405 --> 00:20:13,105 and to scoop up the penguins. 497 00:20:13,105 --> 00:20:14,185 Yes. Yes. The baby penguins 498 00:20:14,185 --> 00:20:14,985 - The babies. Yeah. Yeah. 499 00:20:15,605 --> 00:20:18,345 - So, um, there's tens of thousands 500 00:20:18,345 --> 00:20:19,785 of them living in these colonies. 501 00:20:19,805 --> 00:20:22,425 Wow. But there's no social structure to these colonies. 502 00:20:22,655 --> 00:20:25,105 There's no hierarchy. There's nothing like that. Hmm. 503 00:20:25,765 --> 00:20:30,345 And, uh, and because they've, they've rarely see humans. 504 00:20:31,065 --> 00:20:32,505 Hmm. Yeah. When we land 505 00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:36,305 and step onto, onto land, we're now walking amongst them. 506 00:20:37,325 --> 00:20:39,465 And they have, they have made their paths. 507 00:20:39,815 --> 00:20:42,185 They make these little paths through the colonies, 508 00:20:42,565 --> 00:20:44,105 and so you walk on their paths. 509 00:20:44,815 --> 00:20:47,245 Sure. Um, and you have to be careful 510 00:20:47,245 --> 00:20:48,685 because they know no fear. 511 00:20:48,985 --> 00:20:52,725 Mm. Interesting. Yeah. They don't know humans can hurt them. 512 00:20:52,895 --> 00:20:57,045 Right. And so they don't walk away from you. Yeah. 513 00:20:57,355 --> 00:20:58,365 Some walk up to you. 514 00:20:59,185 --> 00:21:01,485 Um, and they're all walking on the path with you. 515 00:21:02,105 --> 00:21:03,205 - Mm-Hmm. Right, right. 516 00:21:03,465 --> 00:21:07,525 - So we're all using the path Mm-Hmm. That they made. Right. 517 00:21:07,525 --> 00:21:09,965 Well, to get from point A to point B. Yeah. 518 00:21:10,545 --> 00:21:14,725 And you're being escorted, or at least surrounded by 519 00:21:14,745 --> 00:21:17,565 and accompanied by penguins. Yeah. 520 00:21:17,625 --> 00:21:20,325 - Wow. Yeah. Very weird, I would think. 521 00:21:20,625 --> 00:21:23,485 But did, how long did it take for, 522 00:21:24,945 --> 00:21:27,165 and I, I do believe there actually is some, some sort 523 00:21:27,165 --> 00:21:28,365 of cultural aspect of this. 524 00:21:28,865 --> 00:21:30,605 How long did it take 525 00:21:31,105 --> 00:21:34,045 before that seemed somewhat normal? 526 00:21:34,765 --> 00:21:37,305 , I guess. How long were you doing it too? Because, 527 00:21:37,695 --> 00:21:38,695 - Yeah. 528 00:21:38,695 --> 00:21:41,305 Well, I was only in Antarctica for about a week. Okay. 529 00:21:41,445 --> 00:21:43,305 And every day we would go on the ice. 530 00:21:43,925 --> 00:21:45,305 At the end of the day, you take the, 531 00:21:45,365 --> 00:21:46,585 the zodiac back to the ship. 532 00:21:46,965 --> 00:21:50,965 - Did, but did you acclimate at all acclimate, so to speak, 533 00:21:51,185 --> 00:21:53,885 to the, to, to the , to the surroundings, yes. 534 00:21:54,505 --> 00:21:56,805 To the, I wish I could say I did that on purpose, . 535 00:21:57,085 --> 00:21:59,645 I know you did. It's Let's go with that. Yeah. Yeah. 536 00:22:00,035 --> 00:22:03,805 It's to, to the, to to the procedure, to the idea 537 00:22:03,805 --> 00:22:05,205 that these things are going to be there 538 00:22:05,225 --> 00:22:06,685 and that they're going to walk with you 539 00:22:06,745 --> 00:22:08,045 and, and stuff like that. 540 00:22:08,345 --> 00:22:11,325 - On the one hand, uh, it, it, it, 541 00:22:11,625 --> 00:22:14,485 it became more comfortable Right. 542 00:22:14,625 --> 00:22:17,445 As we became more knowledgeable of 543 00:22:17,445 --> 00:22:18,885 what we were encountering Uhhuh . 544 00:22:18,945 --> 00:22:21,805 But on the other hand, it became more mysterious too. 545 00:22:22,435 --> 00:22:23,685 - Okay. Because, - Uh, 546 00:22:24,355 --> 00:22:26,125 - Explain that a little more. Yeah. See more of 547 00:22:26,125 --> 00:22:27,125 - It. 548 00:22:27,125 --> 00:22:29,285 Because as we, as we went every day, 549 00:22:29,385 --> 00:22:30,605 we learned more about Mm-Hmm. 550 00:22:30,605 --> 00:22:33,005 What being an Antarctica was. Sure. Okay. 551 00:22:33,225 --> 00:22:36,485 And so one day, you know, the first day you get familiar 552 00:22:36,485 --> 00:22:38,445 with the penguins at this very superficial level. 553 00:22:39,065 --> 00:22:40,885 And the next day, maybe a little bit more. 554 00:22:41,465 --> 00:22:43,605 Uh, but then you learn also 555 00:22:43,665 --> 00:22:46,485 as the days go on about these strange other things. 556 00:22:46,625 --> 00:22:49,565 See, we're walking, uh, down a path 557 00:22:49,945 --> 00:22:52,485 and o over over a crest. 558 00:22:52,485 --> 00:22:55,685 Mm-Hmm. . And we hear this phenomenal crashing. 559 00:22:56,465 --> 00:22:58,125 What's an iceberg calving? 560 00:22:58,785 --> 00:23:00,925 - Ah, yeah. Breaking off. Okay. 561 00:23:01,025 --> 00:23:02,645 For those that don't know the term. Yes. 562 00:23:02,645 --> 00:23:05,645 - Right. Yeah. And the sound is like nothing I 563 00:23:05,645 --> 00:23:07,085 can imagine. Oh, 564 00:23:07,085 --> 00:23:08,085 - Imagine. 565 00:23:08,085 --> 00:23:08,355 Yeah. Sure. 566 00:23:09,545 --> 00:23:12,765 - And we were supposed to be in our zodiacs at one point, 567 00:23:13,185 --> 00:23:14,805 uh, in a particular cove. 568 00:23:15,745 --> 00:23:18,525 And, uh, we were in the zodiacs, 569 00:23:18,625 --> 00:23:22,565 and then we had to turn back as quickly as we could. 570 00:23:22,705 --> 00:23:26,645 Mm. Because one of the, the sheer side 571 00:23:26,645 --> 00:23:28,165 of a glacier was calving. 572 00:23:28,265 --> 00:23:29,365 Mm huh. 573 00:23:29,385 --> 00:23:31,965 And when that side came into the water, it was going 574 00:23:31,965 --> 00:23:34,165 to create basically a tidal wave. 575 00:23:34,275 --> 00:23:37,365 Sure. Wow. And we had to get out. Yeah. Yeah. Right. 576 00:23:37,385 --> 00:23:39,645 So we, we had to hustle back to the ship 577 00:23:39,745 --> 00:23:40,805 as fast as we could. 578 00:23:40,985 --> 00:23:44,685 - Huh. Well, the fact and the fact that your guides weren't 579 00:23:45,455 --> 00:23:47,685 - Aware this was gonna happen, maybe, I dunno, suggest 580 00:23:47,685 --> 00:23:48,685 - They were aware of it. 581 00:23:48,685 --> 00:23:50,125 - Yeah. Were they Okay. I just was wondering, 582 00:23:50,185 --> 00:23:51,405 is this something unusual 583 00:23:51,405 --> 00:23:52,885 because of climate change was happening more 584 00:23:53,285 --> 00:23:54,285 - Frequently? 585 00:23:54,285 --> 00:23:54,765 Is that happening more frequently? 586 00:23:54,795 --> 00:23:58,205 - Yeah. Oh, to your original question, the day that we, uh, 587 00:23:58,255 --> 00:23:59,485 first day we landed 588 00:23:59,545 --> 00:24:02,845 and stepped onto the ice, uh, was the warmest day ever 589 00:24:03,365 --> 00:24:05,045 recorded in Antarctica? 590 00:24:05,105 --> 00:24:08,765 Oh. And although those, those wonderful orange jackets 591 00:24:08,765 --> 00:24:11,045 that we were wearing did keep us very warm. 592 00:24:11,505 --> 00:24:13,485 It was too warm. I had to unzip it. Wow. 593 00:24:13,555 --> 00:24:15,455 - Yeah. Wow. - Yeah. 594 00:24:16,205 --> 00:24:17,295 - Yeah. That's not great. 595 00:24:24,225 --> 00:24:25,895 - Every day that we stayed there, there were, 596 00:24:25,895 --> 00:24:27,575 there were more things to learn. 597 00:24:27,835 --> 00:24:30,975 And by the time we left, we realized there was so much more 598 00:24:30,975 --> 00:24:33,415 to know than what we, than than what we had learned. 599 00:24:33,415 --> 00:24:36,535 Mm-Hmm. . So the mystery kept compounding, um, 600 00:24:36,905 --> 00:24:39,335 again, on the, on the zodiacs, going back 601 00:24:39,335 --> 00:24:44,215 to the ship in one particular day, we had to really get back 602 00:24:44,215 --> 00:24:47,695 to the ship quickly, because these winds were coming up. 603 00:24:47,695 --> 00:24:49,055 Mm-Hmm. . And these are winds 604 00:24:49,055 --> 00:24:50,455 that are only in Antarctica, 605 00:24:50,455 --> 00:24:52,335 because they have to do with the fact 606 00:24:52,335 --> 00:24:54,615 that the glaciers can be a certain height. 607 00:24:55,235 --> 00:24:57,735 And the temperature between the top of the glacier 608 00:24:57,735 --> 00:25:00,295 and the bottom of the glacier is so distinctly different 609 00:25:00,685 --> 00:25:02,135 that it creates this wind. 610 00:25:02,915 --> 00:25:06,815 And once this wind comes up, um, it, um, it, 611 00:25:06,815 --> 00:25:08,175 it's very, it's hurricane force. 612 00:25:08,555 --> 00:25:11,375 - Wow. Yeah. - So you gotta get out of the way fast. Wow. 613 00:25:11,675 --> 00:25:16,135 So these kinds of things we were encountering over 614 00:25:16,135 --> 00:25:18,855 and over again, so that mysteries only got bigger. 615 00:25:18,995 --> 00:25:23,335 Mm. And the strangeness of the place overcame 616 00:25:24,155 --> 00:25:25,615 my sense of familiarity, 617 00:25:25,625 --> 00:25:28,335 which I realized at the beginning was a 618 00:25:28,335 --> 00:25:29,535 defense mechanism. Yeah, 619 00:25:29,605 --> 00:25:30,095 - Sure. You 620 00:25:30,095 --> 00:25:30,735 - Wanted to feel more comfortable in 621 00:25:30,865 --> 00:25:32,095 order, in order to feel comfortable. 622 00:25:32,095 --> 00:25:34,295 - And, and to some degree, I think you probably, that, 623 00:25:34,295 --> 00:25:37,535 that allows you to, in the beginning, to, 624 00:25:37,915 --> 00:25:40,375 to drop the defenses somewhat and start to look around. 625 00:25:40,505 --> 00:25:43,215 Right. And then you take in things like you're talking 626 00:25:43,215 --> 00:25:47,215 about, and then that becomes more, um, well, 627 00:25:47,855 --> 00:25:49,495 whatever the impact is gonna be , 628 00:25:49,495 --> 00:25:51,535 - You become aware of how strange and different, it 629 00:25:51,535 --> 00:25:52,455 - Could be strange or frightening, 630 00:25:52,455 --> 00:25:53,135 depending on where you are. 631 00:25:53,155 --> 00:25:54,895 And in that case, I can see how 632 00:25:55,095 --> 00:25:56,815 that very much could be like that. Yeah. 633 00:25:57,235 --> 00:25:58,695 - Huh. Um, Dean, can I ask, 634 00:25:59,075 --> 00:26:00,535 so this is my, my second question of 635 00:26:00,535 --> 00:26:01,535 - The two. 636 00:26:01,535 --> 00:26:03,215 No, you can't. Oh, I'm so sorry. So let's move on. Oh. 637 00:26:03,795 --> 00:26:07,055 - Uh, but , uh, thank you, uh, before 638 00:26:07,475 --> 00:26:08,495 before we wrap up. 639 00:26:08,595 --> 00:26:12,215 Um, you mentioned earlier about sort of ingroup, 640 00:26:12,335 --> 00:26:13,615 outgroup dynamics 641 00:26:13,995 --> 00:26:15,215 - For Latin America, America 642 00:26:15,355 --> 00:26:18,415 - In particular, and how that could influence the, you know, 643 00:26:18,415 --> 00:26:22,615 the dynamics of, um, climate change, uh, 644 00:26:22,615 --> 00:26:23,775 dealing with climate change, 645 00:26:24,155 --> 00:26:25,655 - The uptake of solutions. 646 00:26:25,845 --> 00:26:28,175 - Yeah. Can you talk, I, I just, you know, I know 647 00:26:28,175 --> 00:26:30,695 that obviously in any culture, in any society, 648 00:26:30,695 --> 00:26:31,895 there is in groups outgroups. 649 00:26:32,115 --> 00:26:33,735 Um, can you talk more about what 650 00:26:33,735 --> 00:26:35,095 that looks like in Latin America? 651 00:26:35,115 --> 00:26:36,495 - In particular? In Latin America, 652 00:26:36,605 --> 00:26:39,055 it's been a major theme throughout Latin American history. 653 00:26:39,055 --> 00:26:42,175 Okay. So, so there would always be, uh, you know, 654 00:26:42,175 --> 00:26:46,285 the indigenous peoples of Latin America, Inca, Maya, um, 655 00:26:47,065 --> 00:26:48,325 um, Aztec. 656 00:26:48,705 --> 00:26:50,945 And then suddenly overnight, this, 657 00:26:51,215 --> 00:26:54,345 this ingroup right now is deposed. 658 00:26:54,355 --> 00:26:56,585 Right. And another ingroup comes in. Yeah. 659 00:26:56,685 --> 00:26:58,705 And it start, it starts this process. 660 00:26:59,205 --> 00:27:02,585 Uh, Latin American history has always been about the, 661 00:27:02,605 --> 00:27:03,865 the right versus the left. 662 00:27:03,865 --> 00:27:05,545 Mm-Hmm. But very extreme versions. 663 00:27:05,725 --> 00:27:07,545 So if you were, if the right was in power 664 00:27:07,565 --> 00:27:09,425 and you remember the right, you benefited. 665 00:27:09,425 --> 00:27:14,265 Mm. And then, um, over time, for various reasons, uh, 666 00:27:14,965 --> 00:27:16,825 the power shifts and it goes left. 667 00:27:17,145 --> 00:27:18,545 I see. And then suddenly you have to become a member 668 00:27:18,545 --> 00:27:22,865 of the left in order to be to, to get the benefits of the, 669 00:27:22,865 --> 00:27:24,865 of the next decade of years. 670 00:27:24,975 --> 00:27:26,265 It's sort of these extremes, 671 00:27:26,365 --> 00:27:28,345 but it's always the swing between extremes 672 00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:30,505 and extremes represented by different groups. 673 00:27:30,905 --> 00:27:34,665 Hmm. And, uh, it, there has never been, it's been very hard 674 00:27:34,665 --> 00:27:36,825 to do nation building in Latin America Mm-Hmm. 675 00:27:36,825 --> 00:27:39,665 Because of this where we can all feel like we're all members 676 00:27:39,685 --> 00:27:41,705 of one group called the Nation. 677 00:27:41,815 --> 00:27:44,185 Yeah. You know? And that nation is exists 678 00:27:44,285 --> 00:27:45,585 for me, for all of us. 679 00:27:45,655 --> 00:27:49,065 Yeah. Uh, that's been a major theme in Latin America, 680 00:27:49,205 --> 00:27:50,205 - You know? 681 00:27:50,205 --> 00:27:50,665 And that's so interesting because to 682 00:27:50,665 --> 00:27:52,185 what we were saying earlier about it being a more 683 00:27:52,185 --> 00:27:55,585 individualistic society in America, in the US America, 684 00:27:56,165 --> 00:27:57,345 um, yeah. 685 00:27:57,345 --> 00:27:59,745 It just makes me think of there could, from what you're, 686 00:27:59,745 --> 00:28:01,305 from your theory to the penguins, 687 00:28:01,925 --> 00:28:05,145 it sounds like you are proposing that this effort 688 00:28:05,165 --> 00:28:07,865 of focusing around addressing climate change could help 689 00:28:07,865 --> 00:28:11,225 to unify the different parties in throughout Latin America. 690 00:28:11,335 --> 00:28:14,185 Whereas I, I, I think I feel like here in making 691 00:28:14,185 --> 00:28:16,705 that argument of like, let's come together as one earth, 692 00:28:17,455 --> 00:28:19,625 that for a lot of folks could be like, well, that's nice, 693 00:28:19,625 --> 00:28:20,825 but that's not enough for me. 694 00:28:21,255 --> 00:28:22,825 - It's okay to come together. That's very interesting. 695 00:28:22,825 --> 00:28:24,625 As long as you're coming together to what I believe 696 00:28:25,055 --> 00:28:26,145 - It's what I believe and 697 00:28:26,165 --> 00:28:27,985 how does it benefit me economically and in other ways. 698 00:28:28,265 --> 00:28:30,945 Absolutely. But yes, economically for sure. Um, 699 00:28:30,945 --> 00:28:34,745 - Well, the kumbaya aspect of getting people on board, uh, 700 00:28:34,815 --> 00:28:38,185 join my group because it's gonna represent more people 701 00:28:38,205 --> 00:28:39,825 and it's gonna benefit more of us. 702 00:28:39,975 --> 00:28:41,985 Yeah. Um, yeah. 703 00:28:41,985 --> 00:28:43,865 There is a kumbaya aspect to it, 704 00:28:44,085 --> 00:28:46,785 but at the same time, that has a lot of power 705 00:28:46,885 --> 00:28:50,985 and in Latin America appealing to people based on that idea. 706 00:28:51,055 --> 00:28:53,225 Yeah. That we can all be in this together 707 00:28:53,405 --> 00:28:56,185 and benefit all more than just a handful 708 00:28:56,215 --> 00:28:58,865 that are benefiting now that has a lot 709 00:28:58,865 --> 00:29:00,345 of power in Latin America. Mm-Hmm. 710 00:29:00,645 --> 00:29:02,425 - That's, that's an important thing 711 00:29:02,425 --> 00:29:03,825 to know if you're in the middle of trying 712 00:29:03,825 --> 00:29:07,145 to make people understand what is, what is happening to, 713 00:29:07,285 --> 00:29:08,705 and, and why it's happening. 714 00:29:08,995 --> 00:29:10,185 Right. Um, in, 715 00:29:10,205 --> 00:29:13,065 in a thing like climate change, ab absolutely. 716 00:29:13,285 --> 00:29:14,425 It, it's very important. 717 00:29:14,485 --> 00:29:18,025 By the way, I believe there's been several different types 718 00:29:18,085 --> 00:29:21,905 of species who have been eliminated from this planet due 719 00:29:21,905 --> 00:29:23,385 to circumstances in some cases. 720 00:29:23,385 --> 00:29:24,705 Oh goodness. Far beyond their control, 721 00:29:25,125 --> 00:29:27,785 but just circumstances that in, in, in all of those cases, 722 00:29:27,785 --> 00:29:29,225 really beyond their control. 723 00:29:29,375 --> 00:29:31,185 Yeah. But in, but it, 724 00:29:31,625 --> 00:29:33,545 'cause no one's really come along that has been able 725 00:29:33,545 --> 00:29:36,985 to contribute to that with the exception 726 00:29:36,985 --> 00:29:38,865 of us Oh yeah. 727 00:29:38,865 --> 00:29:41,325 Of humans. Oh, yeah. And, and being able to do that. 728 00:29:41,465 --> 00:29:42,725 So you get a, you get a, 729 00:29:42,875 --> 00:29:43,875 - Well, it's like we're talking about, 730 00:29:43,995 --> 00:29:45,045 - It's a totally different game 731 00:29:45,045 --> 00:29:46,085 - With trends earlier, right. 732 00:29:46,085 --> 00:29:47,645 With the idea of yes, there are chase in the earth, 733 00:29:47,645 --> 00:29:49,725 however you look from the industrial revolution on Yeah. 734 00:29:49,725 --> 00:29:51,845 All these species have gone extinct and climb 735 00:29:51,845 --> 00:29:54,485 - In the air even in that small period at a time. Hottest, 736 00:29:54,485 --> 00:29:55,485 - Hottest month ever hottest month ever. 737 00:29:55,485 --> 00:29:56,525 Ever. You know, it's like, okay. 738 00:29:57,185 --> 00:29:59,165 Trends are very clearly pointed towards, 739 00:29:59,165 --> 00:30:01,045 there's something in addition going on here. 740 00:30:01,045 --> 00:30:04,045 Yeah. We urgently need address. Um, how do we do it? 741 00:30:04,045 --> 00:30:05,365 That's the question. Yeah. We're 742 00:30:06,625 --> 00:30:08,765 - We, and we were talking about just one way 743 00:30:08,765 --> 00:30:11,045 of addressing it, the cultural issue, addressing it. 744 00:30:11,045 --> 00:30:12,845 Yeah. Yeah. Clearly there's a whole lot of certainly 745 00:30:12,845 --> 00:30:13,845 - Gotta do it. 746 00:30:13,845 --> 00:30:14,285 Certainly. I don't know. And, and 747 00:30:14,285 --> 00:30:15,085 I, but that's very interesting. 748 00:30:15,105 --> 00:30:16,525 But I don't, and that's, that's an, 749 00:30:16,705 --> 00:30:18,725 that's an interesting thing too, in the sense 750 00:30:18,725 --> 00:30:22,965 that I don't think that we are necessarily needing 751 00:30:22,965 --> 00:30:25,885 to address the problem in a cultural way, 752 00:30:25,885 --> 00:30:29,765 but we need to address our ability to manage the problem. 753 00:30:30,295 --> 00:30:31,925 Definitely. In a cultural, it 754 00:30:31,925 --> 00:30:32,925 - Feels like it has to start there. 755 00:30:32,925 --> 00:30:33,925 - It has to be there. - Like, 756 00:30:33,925 --> 00:30:35,285 like we talk about, we're not gonna do it. 757 00:30:35,545 --> 00:30:37,805 We talk about real, it kind of has to start there. Yeah. 758 00:30:38,035 --> 00:30:40,845 - Yeah. Well, I was, you know, my position is always 759 00:30:40,845 --> 00:30:42,845 that you, you gotta get the culture right 760 00:30:42,845 --> 00:30:44,685 or else that nothing else is gonna happen. Right? 761 00:30:44,755 --> 00:30:46,645 - Yeah. You think there's a cultural aspect to this? 762 00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:47,885 - I think there's a cultural piece to 763 00:30:47,885 --> 00:30:48,885 - This unbelievable. 764 00:30:48,885 --> 00:30:50,085 You know, why there's a cultural aspect to this 765 00:30:50,435 --> 00:30:53,685 - Because oops, - Your culture 766 00:30:53,835 --> 00:30:56,205 - Showing - Smell ya 767 00:31:06,225 --> 00:31:08,205 before you run off and disappear back into 768 00:31:08,205 --> 00:31:09,245 your own cultures. 769 00:31:09,785 --> 00:31:12,525 Let me give you some information about something we really 770 00:31:12,635 --> 00:31:15,605 want you to know, and that's how to get hold of us. 771 00:31:16,355 --> 00:31:18,245 Give us your questions, your comments, 772 00:31:18,805 --> 00:31:21,165 anything along those lines by email. 773 00:31:21,915 --> 00:31:25,605 It's oops. Culture show@gmail.com. 774 00:31:26,185 --> 00:31:28,925 And be sure to follow us on whatever social media you 775 00:31:28,925 --> 00:31:30,245 use at Oops. 776 00:31:30,675 --> 00:31:32,605 Culture show. Thanks.