- Well, here we are talking about really
relevant things in the world.
- Oh my God, that sounds so serious.
- Well, . - But here we are.
But we're, but we were here just last night.
We went out to dinner. Actually.
- We did go, we did go out to dinner last night. Yeah. It
- Was a lovely, I had a lovely - Time.
It was very, very nice. The food was good.
The company was meh. Oh, .
- Ah. Oh,
- I didn't realize that.
Explain words. What? I thought the company was delightful.
- Well, no, I uh, I kid, I kid,
the company was smart and funny. Well, it
- Wouldn't go that far.
- Okay. I agree. Um, um, yeah.
We were out there and to knew,
had noticed something about that night. What was it?
- It was a freezing cold night.
- It was very cold. - Yes. I was also there.
And , I noticed that, uh, Dean,
you were wearing a coat that
- Had a little, uh, of many colors.
A no, actually many colors. Oh, actually just one
- Coat.
We were calling you Joe, I believe
- We're now Yeah.
We're gonna list all the colors now. Yeah.
Um, no, it was, it was an orange coat. Right.
And it looked very warm
and it had a little insignia that said an Antarctica
- On it.
Right, right. So I was very intrigued. Yeah.
Bo both my wife and I were wearing our Antarctica jackets,
which are jackets that are given
to you if you go on this cruise to Antarctica.
And, um, it's part of it
because the, um, the company wisely doesn't want anybody
to freeze the death they
- Take.
Are they orange? So they won't lose you.
- And they are orange. So that against the, the
- Ice. Yeah. Stand,
- Stand out. Sure. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah,
- Absolutely. A lot of sense. Right.
- Because you are literally walking on, on the continent
of the Antarctica and it's vast,
- Uh, yeah.
- Vast beyond, beyond words. Yeah.
And there are no people,
there are no towns, there are no cities.
There are penguins and seals, birds,
- , right. At ice.
- And scientists.
Those are the only people on Antarctica, essentially. Right.
Yeah. Um, from all over the world who have
to communicate with each other.
And so therein is an issue of culture, which really anybody
who goes to Antarctica is going
to view the experience through their own life.
And my life has to deal with culture
because this is after all,
- Oops. Your culture
- Is - Showing.
- And I'm Dean Foster. - And I'm Tom Peterson.
And with us in studio today, we also have
- Torin . That's me.
- Welcome. Torin. - Hi. Hey. That's my name
- Who invited - . I'm having fun.
- And we're talking about, okay. We're talking about Orange
Jackets and Antarctica and Yes, it's interesting.
And culture. And for me, it's kind of interesting
because you talk about culture in a place
where there really isn't a culture except Right.
The human population is very few and far between.
They're in research stations
and they're scientists from all over the world
who have to communicate with each other.
So I guess there's a cultural element to that is in my work,
I'm always trying, Tom. Sure. There
- Is.
I can't see how they could avoid it. Right, right.
That would, you're going to have, you know, there's,
and I've heard people talk about this.
I'm not a scientist and, uh, not even close.
So, but it is a, there is a culture in science
and a way of doing things.
Certainly there is a scientific method that is universal in,
uh, in the, in the sense of the planet.
It's universal among scientists,
but not where they come from.
Right. And I mentioned that
was like astronauts as well, right.
Impacted that. I would think so. Countries Sure.
And spending close, wait a minute, are close.
Are there astronauts in Antarctica? Yes. Well, actually
- Maybe we actually did some work many years back, um,
on one of the Mars missions, um,
- On the continent there?
- No, not in Antarctica. This was in the United States.
Um, teams that were working from
- Russia.
Oh, you did some work with Russian
- And American teams.
Uhhuh , yeah. Who were having to work on,
on the Mars Mission together.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we did the
cross-cultural support on that.
Oh, mm-Hmm. . And, and yes, the, the need for
that kind of understanding, uh,
in the scientific research community is great.
Mm-Hmm. . Sure. Mm-Hmm. . So we
could have gone down to Antarctica to do
that, which would've been lovely.
'cause then someone would've been actually
paying me to make the trip. Right. But that
- Didn't happen. No,
- .
So there I am in Antarctica, in my orange jacket, so
that I stand out against the snow so
that they don't lose me.
And Good. And my wife probably good. Yeah.
And about, uh, 30 other people. Okay.
And, um, you, you,
I understand you can fly into Antarctica,
but that's not typically the way most of the time you do it.
So you took a boat, you have to take a ship.
So you, you, uh, we flew down from New York to Buenos Aires
and from Buenos Aires to us, which is the ccb ah,
tiara del Tiara del Fuego.
- Oh, that's - Cool. And the furthest south southern
point in the Americas.
And that's Cape Horn. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.
right there. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. And then you get
on a ship, and for two
or three days you sail across days, the Drake passage Wow.
To Antarctica.
And you, and you wake up that morning
and the sun is shining,
and you open the, the ship's window of your cabin,
and you see this other continent. Mm.
- Yeah. - Which for all intents
and purposes, doesn't belong there in my mind
as I'm looking at it, because I was just at the southern
most point of the earth. Mm.
- Mm-Hmm. or, so you thought or Land's end.
- Yeah. Land's end. Yeah. But it wasn't, yeah.
There's yet more to come. Were
- You able to walk around - On the continents?
Yes, absolutely. So the, the, the ship, um, docks as close
to land as it possibly can.
Mm. And then you go out in zodiacs
that are kind of like these dinghy.
- Yeah. The inflatable crafts. Inflatable
- Crafts.
And the zodiacs go between the ship and the actual land. Mm.
So, uh, it was quite a remarkable moment for me,
uh, emotional, really.
When you step out of that, um, zodiac
and you put your foot onto the continent of Antarctica.
Yeah. It's, it was, it was a, it was a very moving moment.
I'm not quite sure why, except that I was there. Uh, me.
- Well, - That's fascinating.
- And the penguins, - You, could you
comprehend where you were?
Was it, was it star so stark that it was,
or not stark maybe is not the right word,
but was it the, was there an ability?
I'm only saying that in the sense that it,
sometimes in my experience when I've gone somewhere
different, it has been, it's been almost a, um,
an interesting aspect of my, of, of my adapting to it, in
that it, it suddenly doesn't seem that different.
It just seems it's another space that I'm in. I
- Think you're raising a very important point.
Okay. Yes. Because I think one of my initial reactions,
and you can have many mm-Hmm.
, you know, I think you don't wanna filter
these different feelings out,
and they can be overwhelming a little bit.
But one of many feelings reactions I had was,
uh, oh, this is not so different.
I've been in cold places, I've seen mountains before.
I've seen striking sunshine before. Mm-Hmm.
, uh, I've even seen
penguins before in the zoo.
Um, so it's not so different.
I think we tend to want to see similarities in order
to be able to encompass the experience.
Sure. We have to relate it to something that know that's
- Point. Sure. Right.
- Are you walking on ice
or are you walking on more land dirt?
- Well, it depends. What are you able to walk on?
I mean, there, there's gravel actually, uh, like a, like,
like a beach head, uh, okay.
Where you're walking on land.
Um, but then the gravel very, very quickly becomes ice.
- I see. But there's enough there where you could walk.
I, 'cause I assume that's where you were probably walking.
- Yes. That's where the dingy pulls in. Okay.
And but literally within yards of that, you're on ice. Yeah.
- Because then that's more, you know, familiar ground,
somewhat than if you're having to go walk
- On this.
There's, there's some length
glacier now. Yeah. You mean? Yeah. Yeah.
- Right. And, and so I tended, as you described Tom, to try
to see similarities there, I think in order to, um,
minimize the, uh, the reality Mm.
- Of being the overwhelming aspects of it,
- Of being in a place so far away.
- Sure. And well, it's interesting too
because we do relate that, because you can even say
that if you listen to the, the feed back to
the Earth from the first people
who walked on the moon, right.
Neil Armstrong, buzz Aldrin, when they were their,
their first things are, and I'm,
and sure there's an aspect that science
and stuff like that that goes with that.
But they are then comparing it to
what they know about the earth.
Hmm. You know, he's talking about the, the depth, the depth
of the dust, similar to when he gives some examples
and stuff like that as he is going around
because it's familiar.
'cause this, this is otherworldly,
- It is otherworldly - .
And, and, and that would appear to be too I, yeah.
- Only is, is, um, I, I think it's hard
to do if not terrifying.
Mm-Hmm. So you wanna relate it to things
that you make you feel comfortable. Sure.
- Right. Yeah. And relate to it. Right.
- And then the, and then a penguin walks up to you, .
And then I'm reminded, oh, this is very
- Probably different.
This is pretty different. This is, yeah. Did you have, um,
maybe scientists there
or sort of experts to guide you through
- What you were seeing?
We did. We were on a remarkable, um, trip.
And, um, there were, uh, experts and scientists with us.
And, um, on this particular trip we had, uh,
Christiana Es, who is, uh, a foremost climate expert.
And so there was a lot of emphasis in this trip on the whole
issue of climate and climate change
and how it affects Antarctica
and subsequently the rest of the world.
Uh, Christiana in fact, led the, um, un, um,
climate talks, the Paris Treaty,
that was the first big Paris treat
- Treaty.
Oh, interesting. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
That's a big deal. That, that
- Yeah.
That first big agreement many years. But other
- Than that, she'd done . Yeah.
- And she spoke about her, that whole experience
and how culturally fraught that was.
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Wow. And,
- Um, in a way still is.
Yeah. It's very much still is
- .
And, and, and I remember a very interesting conversation
about the cultural issues of getting
climate awareness
and climate change policies put in place
based on culture.
And that if we can take the,
the cultures that are involved in this issue,
which is all cultures in the world,
and leverage the cultural preferences for
how they feel about climate change Mm-Hmm.
We can use culture as a lever
for getting it adopted more quickly.
Right. In other words, my thinking was
that there are certain cultures that would get on board
with climate with what we need to do about climate change.
If we appeal to what,
what their culture values, if we try to appeal to
what the culture doesn't value, it's gonna turn them off.
So Yeah. What do, um, what's gonna juice Americans
to get behind climate change policies?
Sure. What's gonna juice Chinese to get
behind climate change policies?
Mm. And my thinking was that we've got
to emphasize two different things when we're talking
to these two different groups,
because what's gonna juice them is gonna be different Mm.
Based on their culture. Mm.
- And it's gonna be different. And,
and, uh, it would seem to me that it's going
to be even different if you've gotta sell this
to a public as a whole.
Within those cultures,
those cultures aren't the same all throughout.
Right. They have have their own idiosyncrasies, at least
within large countries especially,
but even in small countries.
Right. So you've got, you've gotta juice not only the,
the overall culture, but you've gotta be able
to juice enough of those in individual pieces
Right. Within those cultures.
- Right. And, and - Other than that, it's not hard. Right.
- And this has to cascade down from leadership and from
and from elites who, who advocate.
Right. Right. But how do you advocate for it?
And, and the point is that in the US it's gotta be advocated
around individual benefit and corporate benefit
and economic benefit. And
- Even the idea to make it, to, to get to the point
where you get these people thinking that there is a,
there is a reason to, a real reason to pay attention
to this that they will benefit from.
Right. A self benefit. Yeah. Uhhuh .
And in the US as you're talking about the culture,
since it's an individualist society,
or at least believes this, then in, in doing so,
you're gonna have to What's in it for me? Yeah.
- It's the bottom line. Yeah.
Where do I make the, where, where,
- Where the, is this really going to impact me?
I don't feel it on a daily basis. So look at
- What's been happening in terms of, uh,
social policy development from this.
In the US we get this cell, which is based on,
there's a green opportunity here.
Mm-Hmm. But it's gotta be a green economic opportunity.
Mm-Hmm. for corporations and for individuals.
Right. Right. In, and it's gotta be green.
I'm sorry. It's gotta be economic.
- It's gotta be an opportunity, and it's gotta be an
opportunity that is, doesn't come wrapped in a threat.
- And, and it's often, it would be almost impossible
to think of it in any other terms for us culture.
Um, but yeah.
That isn't the sell point for a lot
of Asian cultures. Mm.
- Right - Now, China
and the US are pretty much the two big players on when it
comes to this climate issue.
Mm-Hmm. . So how are we gonna sell it
in China is biggest
- Emitters. Yeah.
- It, and so this,
because we've got a society based on this whole notion
that almost doesn't exist in the us
and in fact in the US it's, it's looked at in many ways
as anathema, but the whole notion of doing things
for collective good.
- Yeah. Right. - And now that doesn't mean you,
that's, I mean, we don't do that at all.
That doesn't mean China's a white knight and the US isn't.
Right. You know what we're saying.
We all know how that gets corrupted.
And we all know in an autocratic society like China,
it gets very much corrupted.
Mm. But the cell has to be based on that notion
of collective good.
Mm-Hmm. . And so that you, you just going
to have to, uh, advocate for this in a very different way.
So we presented, um, basically this theoretical framework
for thinking about how culture impacts the adoption
of climate change initiatives.
Hmm. And, um, of course, they have to go
through the political filters of the economic filters
of all of these nations.
Uh, and, and those are real hard realities.
They are, I mean, the whole notion that a lot of, um,
nations that are, that are impacted first by climate change
of the least cause of it.
Mm-Hmm. . And so
how do we create some equity around that?
Right. Yeah. Big political problems. Mm-Hmm. .
But, but stepping back from that,
what we were looking at solely was the issue of, um, how do,
how do we come up with a, a, a theoretical
roadmap for dealing with, with the cultural, uh, adoption
of the whole idea of culture change
and climate, uh, of the whole idea of climate change.
Yeah. Um, and then we even spoke about Latin America. Mm.
Okay. Where, okay, we've got Brazil,
you know, the lungs of the world.
There's the Yeah. There's the Amazon jungle
and or Amazon is.
And so how do we deal with
adopting these ideas in Brazil?
And at the time, uh,
we had Bolsonaro who was in charge Mm-Hmm.
. And he was, he was denying the whole
existence of climate change.
Right. But we knew that that was just a political moment,
and that that did now disappear.
Right. Mm-Hmm. . Um, so in Latin America,
the cultural requirements for adoption of
of climate change initiatives are
different in Latin America.
Culturally, the issue over the centuries has always been
aligning yourself with in groups and outgroups.
Okay. And if a country could make it a look
as if the ingroup was now advocating for this,
then, and, and make it so that people would, um,
find benefit in aligning with a particular group, that
that would be a very powerful, uh, way of getting,
getting climate change initiatives adopted.
So it was a fascinating, interesting trip.
And we wrote up this theoretical roadmap
and we presented it to the penguins.
- Okay. And what did the Penguins say?
Well, they had a lot to say about this. Oh, okay. Did they?
I'm sure, yes. They, they're annoying. I find them annoying.
. They like the squawk. It.
They, and they think they're cool
'cause they, they're always formally dressed.
They, yeah. I know. You know,
the bow ties though, chill out.
I like the bow tie aspect. Just chill out. Penguins. It,
- It's remarkable how refined they look Yeah.
And how much they stink. Mm-Hmm. Yeah.
The, the two just were dichotomy.
They, they were a dissonance in my right. Sure.
Because as your, as your zodiac approach, the shore,
- I've had people say that about me, actually.
- Especially when you're in
- A tuxedo.
Absolutely. Which you often are. Yeah. Yeah. A lot. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. . But , you know, know it.
It's, I I do another question about the Penguins.
Um, in, in your experience, vast as it is
with Penguins, did the p Yes.
With the penguins did, could they tap dance?
- Oh, they did. Yeah.
You could, you can give them any tune
you want. Yeah, sure. And
- They, yeah.
- Did you film Happy Feet? The sequel to Happy Feet there?
- ? Yeah. Well, doc, could you work on that? Yeah.
- Here's the thing about that. Not so
- Happy Feet, another sequel, you know,
because that's the, that's the, that's the
not so Happy Feet, the climate
- Change. So Happy Feet.
- Oh. Video is the not so happy Feet,
- Actually.
So to that I did wanna, so, okay. I have two
- Questions.
Oh, we've got an actual cultural aspect.
- This, that know, well, not, not really on this one.
Well, I guess sort of, um, did you see effects
of climate change in
- Antarctica?
- Absolutely. Did you? Okay. Yeah.
In fact, it was very ironic that the very first day
that we stepped out onto the ice, uh,
and encountered a penguin colony of, I,
I would say's tens of thousands of
- Pens. Really? Oh my God. Oh,
- Wow.
Um, it's not individual.
Interesting about the penguins is that from an
an anthropomorphic perspective, um, it's easy to
see them as creatures in tuxedos and,
and waddling around cat dancing
and tap cute, cute as hell and cute.
It and all of that. we're
anthropomorphizing, you know, these creatures.
Absolutely. And they're really birds.
And they're not living collectively, uh, in a society.
We tend to, uh, overlay that perception on them
because we humans do.
- Right. - They are living with each other, not
because there is, um, a society of behavior
that has built up.
'cause they're birds, they don't, for the same reason
that birds will cluster in a bush, in a tree,
it's merely for protection. Oh,
- Well, that's what I was gonna say.
It's one of the, but it that still, safety
and security is one of the blocks of the pyramid.
Right. Of what we
- See.
But a very fundamental one. There's very, very fundamentals.
There's no society structures and rules. You're
- Not getting beyond that. Right. Yeah.
- Yeah. So they're not cooperating
with each other in any way other than to be near each other
so that there's 10,000 of them when the operation
- Of survival.
- Really? When - Yes. And survival of the species. Right.
- When the, when the, the sewers,
which are these huge birds, uh,
almost prehistoric looking things come swooping in
and to scoop up the penguins.
Yes. Yes. The baby penguins
- The babies. Yeah. Yeah.
- So, um, there's tens of thousands
of them living in these colonies.
Wow. But there's no social structure to these colonies.
There's no hierarchy. There's nothing like that. Hmm.
And, uh, and because they've, they've rarely see humans.
Hmm. Yeah. When we land
and step onto, onto land, we're now walking amongst them.
And they have, they have made their paths.
They make these little paths through the colonies,
and so you walk on their paths.
Sure. Um, and you have to be careful
because they know no fear.
Mm. Interesting. Yeah. They don't know humans can hurt them.
Right. And so they don't walk away from you. Yeah.
Some walk up to you.
Um, and they're all walking on the path with you.
- Mm-Hmm. Right, right.
- So we're all using the path Mm-Hmm. That they made. Right.
Well, to get from point A to point B. Yeah.
And you're being escorted, or at least surrounded by
and accompanied by penguins. Yeah.
- Wow. Yeah. Very weird, I would think.
But did, how long did it take for,
and I, I do believe there actually is some, some sort
of cultural aspect of this.
How long did it take
before that seemed somewhat normal?
, I guess. How long were you doing it too? Because,
- Yeah.
Well, I was only in Antarctica for about a week. Okay.
And every day we would go on the ice.
At the end of the day, you take the,
the zodiac back to the ship.
- Did, but did you acclimate at all acclimate, so to speak,
to the, to, to the , to the surroundings, yes.
To the, I wish I could say I did that on purpose, .
I know you did. It's Let's go with that. Yeah. Yeah.
It's to, to the, to to the procedure, to the idea
that these things are going to be there
and that they're going to walk with you
and, and stuff like that.
- On the one hand, uh, it, it, it,
it became more comfortable Right.
As we became more knowledgeable of
what we were encountering Uhhuh .
But on the other hand, it became more mysterious too.
- Okay. Because, - Uh,
- Explain that a little more. Yeah. See more of
- It.
Because as we, as we went every day,
we learned more about Mm-Hmm.
What being an Antarctica was. Sure. Okay.
And so one day, you know, the first day you get familiar
with the penguins at this very superficial level.
And the next day, maybe a little bit more.
Uh, but then you learn also
as the days go on about these strange other things.
See, we're walking, uh, down a path
and o over over a crest.
Mm-Hmm. . And we hear this phenomenal crashing.
What's an iceberg calving?
- Ah, yeah. Breaking off. Okay.
For those that don't know the term. Yes.
- Right. Yeah. And the sound is like nothing I
can imagine. Oh,
- Imagine.
Yeah. Sure.
- And we were supposed to be in our zodiacs at one point,
uh, in a particular cove.
And, uh, we were in the zodiacs,
and then we had to turn back as quickly as we could.
Mm. Because one of the, the sheer side
of a glacier was calving.
Mm huh.
And when that side came into the water, it was going
to create basically a tidal wave.
Sure. Wow. And we had to get out. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
So we, we had to hustle back to the ship
as fast as we could.
- Huh. Well, the fact and the fact that your guides weren't
- Aware this was gonna happen, maybe, I dunno, suggest
- They were aware of it.
- Yeah. Were they Okay. I just was wondering,
is this something unusual
because of climate change was happening more
- Frequently?
Is that happening more frequently?
- Yeah. Oh, to your original question, the day that we, uh,
first day we landed
and stepped onto the ice, uh, was the warmest day ever
recorded in Antarctica?
Oh. And although those, those wonderful orange jackets
that we were wearing did keep us very warm.
It was too warm. I had to unzip it. Wow.
- Yeah. Wow. - Yeah.
- Yeah. That's not great.
- Every day that we stayed there, there were,
there were more things to learn.
And by the time we left, we realized there was so much more
to know than what we, than than what we had learned.
Mm-Hmm. . So the mystery kept compounding, um,
again, on the, on the zodiacs, going back
to the ship in one particular day, we had to really get back
to the ship quickly, because these winds were coming up.
Mm-Hmm. . And these are winds
that are only in Antarctica,
because they have to do with the fact
that the glaciers can be a certain height.
And the temperature between the top of the glacier
and the bottom of the glacier is so distinctly different
that it creates this wind.
And once this wind comes up, um, it, um, it,
it's very, it's hurricane force.
- Wow. Yeah. - So you gotta get out of the way fast. Wow.
So these kinds of things we were encountering over
and over again, so that mysteries only got bigger.
Mm. And the strangeness of the place overcame
my sense of familiarity,
which I realized at the beginning was a
defense mechanism. Yeah,
- Sure. You
- Wanted to feel more comfortable in
order, in order to feel comfortable.
- And, and to some degree, I think you probably, that,
that allows you to, in the beginning, to,
to drop the defenses somewhat and start to look around.
Right. And then you take in things like you're talking
about, and then that becomes more, um, well,
whatever the impact is gonna be ,
- You become aware of how strange and different, it
- Could be strange or frightening,
depending on where you are.
And in that case, I can see how
that very much could be like that. Yeah.
- Huh. Um, Dean, can I ask,
so this is my, my second question of
- The two.
No, you can't. Oh, I'm so sorry. So let's move on. Oh.
- Uh, but , uh, thank you, uh, before
before we wrap up.
Um, you mentioned earlier about sort of ingroup,
outgroup dynamics
- For Latin America, America
- In particular, and how that could influence the, you know,
the dynamics of, um, climate change, uh,
dealing with climate change,
- The uptake of solutions.
- Yeah. Can you talk, I, I just, you know, I know
that obviously in any culture, in any society,
there is in groups outgroups.
Um, can you talk more about what
that looks like in Latin America?
- In particular? In Latin America,
it's been a major theme throughout Latin American history.
Okay. So, so there would always be, uh, you know,
the indigenous peoples of Latin America, Inca, Maya, um,
um, Aztec.
And then suddenly overnight, this,
this ingroup right now is deposed.
Right. And another ingroup comes in. Yeah.
And it start, it starts this process.
Uh, Latin American history has always been about the,
the right versus the left.
Mm-Hmm. But very extreme versions.
So if you were, if the right was in power
and you remember the right, you benefited.
Mm. And then, um, over time, for various reasons, uh,
the power shifts and it goes left.
I see. And then suddenly you have to become a member
of the left in order to be to, to get the benefits of the,
of the next decade of years.
It's sort of these extremes,
but it's always the swing between extremes
and extremes represented by different groups.
Hmm. And, uh, it, there has never been, it's been very hard
to do nation building in Latin America Mm-Hmm.
Because of this where we can all feel like we're all members
of one group called the Nation.
Yeah. You know? And that nation is exists
for me, for all of us.
Yeah. Uh, that's been a major theme in Latin America,
- You know?
And that's so interesting because to
what we were saying earlier about it being a more
individualistic society in America, in the US America,
um, yeah.
It just makes me think of there could, from what you're,
from your theory to the penguins,
it sounds like you are proposing that this effort
of focusing around addressing climate change could help
to unify the different parties in throughout Latin America.
Whereas I, I, I think I feel like here in making
that argument of like, let's come together as one earth,
that for a lot of folks could be like, well, that's nice,
but that's not enough for me.
- It's okay to come together. That's very interesting.
As long as you're coming together to what I believe
- It's what I believe and
how does it benefit me economically and in other ways.
Absolutely. But yes, economically for sure. Um,
- Well, the kumbaya aspect of getting people on board, uh,
join my group because it's gonna represent more people
and it's gonna benefit more of us.
Yeah. Um, yeah.
There is a kumbaya aspect to it,
but at the same time, that has a lot of power
and in Latin America appealing to people based on that idea.
Yeah. That we can all be in this together
and benefit all more than just a handful
that are benefiting now that has a lot
of power in Latin America. Mm-Hmm.
- That's, that's an important thing
to know if you're in the middle of trying
to make people understand what is, what is happening to,
and, and why it's happening.
Right. Um, in,
in a thing like climate change, ab absolutely.
It, it's very important.
By the way, I believe there's been several different types
of species who have been eliminated from this planet due
to circumstances in some cases.
Oh goodness. Far beyond their control,
but just circumstances that in, in, in all of those cases,
really beyond their control.
Yeah. But in, but it,
'cause no one's really come along that has been able
to contribute to that with the exception
of us Oh yeah.
Of humans. Oh, yeah. And, and being able to do that.
So you get a, you get a,
- Well, it's like we're talking about,
- It's a totally different game
- With trends earlier, right.
With the idea of yes, there are chase in the earth,
however you look from the industrial revolution on Yeah.
All these species have gone extinct and climb
- In the air even in that small period at a time. Hottest,
- Hottest month ever hottest month ever.
Ever. You know, it's like, okay.
Trends are very clearly pointed towards,
there's something in addition going on here.
Yeah. We urgently need address. Um, how do we do it?
That's the question. Yeah. We're
- We, and we were talking about just one way
of addressing it, the cultural issue, addressing it.
Yeah. Yeah. Clearly there's a whole lot of certainly
- Gotta do it.
Certainly. I don't know. And, and
I, but that's very interesting.
But I don't, and that's, that's an,
that's an interesting thing too, in the sense
that I don't think that we are necessarily needing
to address the problem in a cultural way,
but we need to address our ability to manage the problem.
Definitely. In a cultural, it
- Feels like it has to start there.
- It has to be there. - Like,
like we talk about, we're not gonna do it.
We talk about real, it kind of has to start there. Yeah.
- Yeah. Well, I was, you know, my position is always
that you, you gotta get the culture right
or else that nothing else is gonna happen. Right?
- Yeah. You think there's a cultural aspect to this?
- I think there's a cultural piece to
- This unbelievable.
You know, why there's a cultural aspect to this
- Because oops, - Your culture
- Showing - Smell ya
before you run off and disappear back into
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