- Well, things annoying people are kind
of what we're about, aren't
- We?
Well, it's certainly a podcast possibility ,
because I'm sure that in other cultures,
what is annoying in one is not necessarily
in another and vice versa.
- Well, I'm just saying that that's true.
I think, you know, when that's kind of annoying actually,
your response just then it, it was .
Well, okay. Only in that
- I didn't even say, I - Didn't even address it to you.
I mean, what, geez. Oh, everything is addressed to me.
- But, but to your point, is it to your point,
different cultures can take it,
and you don't even mean it to be, but it's taken that way.
- Well, well see. Exactly.
And I'm, I'm saying I think
the cultural aspect, there we go.
The cultural aspect of this is, in one way, is that people
will take it in that form,
- Even if it wasn't meant that - Way.
Absolutely. So, and you might not know that.
And that gets you in trouble. So
that's why we are talking about it on a regular basis,
- Because this is - Oops, oops. Your culture,
- Your culture showing.
- Well, speaking of annoying, I'm Tom Peterson
and I'm here with Dean Foster.
Hello, Dean. Hello,
- Tom.
And you are rarely annoying.
I, I must say, I don't think most
of the time talking about me.
Most of the time annoying.
Not all the time, but most of the time
- Him being - Annoying .
Yeah. Well, I didn't take, I didn't take it that way.
You didn't take See what a support I am. Right.
- I see. So going along with Yes.
Our opening you, uh, you're saying that depending on the,
how the person is taking it, that's going,
there's gonna be a cultural element to that
- Always.
Right. And we have with us today in studio.
- Yes. Torin Peterson. Torin Peterson. Am I annoying?
Constantly annoying. Oh wait, whoops. Never.
So that's Sorry equals sometimes. Yeah, sure. We'll go
- With that.
We'll, we'll split. That sounds right. Yeah.
We'll split the difference right there.
- Yeah. Yeah. I'll accept that.
- This will be a wonderful podcast, by the way.
But we're not talking about annoying.
Well, we might be actually,
because we were talking about what to talk about.
Right. And we were talking about the po um, idioms. Really?
- Ah-Huh? idioms are because we're idiots.
We weren't, but we are now.
Well, we were a little bit, and I suppose some,
and then we were annoyed we went there. I see. Okay.
- Some idioms could be annoying.
- Well, they could be. Yes.
- And to your point, yes.
Unintentionally, this whole idea of intentionality,
you know, where I would never intentionally
wanna annoy somebody.
Well, maybe, but
- .
- But, but what I'm doing is now taken as annoying. Mm-Hmm.
- . Yes. Yes, yes. Well, yeah.
I mean, theoretically it takes two in that you,
because the person speaking isn't annoying
unless there's a receiver of it.
We're getting philosophical here. Uh, well, yeah.
I mean, we're getting into all sorts of heavy stuff in
- There.
This, this is the Martin Buber eye.
- V I'm grooving on it. You know what I'm saying? What, who?
- The who? Well, if you have to ask,
- What are we talking about now?
? I thought, I, I thought I heard
something we shouldn't be talking about.
I like Congressman
- Being very, very philosophical.
And I mentioned the, the Martin Buber of Phil philosopher.
Mm-Hmm. , his book, I vow.
It's about the interaction between the,
the object and the subject.
The speaker and the, and the intent
intended receiver. Now the
- Audience, I'm sorry, I I
nodded off in the middle of that .
Now the audience is annoyed. . Really?
They're getting a philosopher. There is no audience.
Oh, that's, that's good point.
Don't worry about it. Why am I
- Not a problem.
I didn't mean to be intentionally annoying, but there I was.
- But it happened. I wonder if there's an idiom
to cover this, because, uh, there must be.
There must be. I now let, let, let's,
let me ask this question though.
'cause idioms are used all the time in, in, in,
in all, probably all cultures. And some, to some degree,
- I would imagine that's - True.
Mm-Hmm. . And so they're, they're doing that.
But I would say that most people
don't know they're using them because they're so common.
Right. Definitely. Yeah. Right. So it's usually in all
- S it's usually - They're just using
without thinking. Right.
- As I understand, it's usually a phrase. Yeah.
Which, um, has a meaning that is not apparently literal.
So the meaning maybe it literal,
but most of the time,
or oftentimes it's not, it's an implication.
And, and, and the reason you don't understand it, if you're
of another culture, is
because you are not experiencing those words the same way
you're experiencing them as translated.
- It requires a background of either personal
or cultural context, historical, um, relativity context.
- You need the context. - Absolutely.
- Right. And, and, - But you,
but you're acquiring that,
that's the kind of the thing I'm talking about.
You're acquiring that context
by your existence in the culture Yeah.
As opposed to having someone explain it to you. That's
- Right.
And that's where you get into problems. Right.
When we would talk about, um, US American culture Mm-Hmm.
, for example. Mm-Hmm. . And if
we're talking about it to a non-US American, right?
We would play a little game sometimes and,
and say the US idiom, but take out a key word
and ask the non-American listener to fill in
what they imagine that missing word might be.
Like. Here's the idiom from the us.
God helps those who help blank. Okay.
- Mm-Hmm. . - Okay.
Now, whenever we would say this
to somebody from China Chili,
- And if you're listening to this, fill in the blank. Yeah.
- So, so if we said, if we said, what's the missing word?
God helps those who help blank.
And if we ask this question of someone from China or Japan
or East, east Asia, inevitably the response was very quick.
Oh, God helps those who helps others. Mm-Hmm.
- . Okay. Hmm.
- And then we would say, whoops, wrong.
- Yeah. Because - The
- American, wrong in, in the context of the United States,
- The American idiom Yeah.
Is God helps those who help themselves. Right. Right.
- Right. - That's rough in my mind.
And then when we would explain that,
that would raise all sorts of problems.
Yeah. Because from an Asian perspective, that's selfish.
Sure. God's not gonna help you if you're selfish.
God's only gonna help you if you're selfless.
- Yeah. Which - Makes sense to me. Yeah. And
- Help others.
- Right, - Right. From a collectivist culture.
- Right, - Right. But not from an individualist culture.
Right. Right. Which is the US where we get rewarded by fate
or God or whoever gives out rewards, we get rewarded
for taking care of ourselves. Right.
- Right. - And that allows us to take care of others.
- Right. - Because by being rewarded,
you've got money in the bank,
you can now start to take care of others.
So you develop a society that depends on, uh, philanthropy.
Right. As opposed to societal supports for
- That's a like an ongoing concept, right?
- Mm-Hmm, - . Okay. Interesting.
I also just realized that, I just said
before that I said, uh, if you're listening
to this , fill in the blank.
And, and if you're not,
- And if you're not listening to it, don't. If you're
- Not listening to this, no, I would actually like them
to also fill in the, the blank. Oh, oh.
- I, - I'm sorry. I would like them do's, even the people
who are not listening to fill in the blank.
- I mean, this seems like a prime example
of Oops. Your culture showing.
- Exactly. Absolutely. That's fascinating.
But now how many times has that happened to,
to any, any of us, you know?
Right. Where we're in a foreign culture
and we hear somebody use an idiom of their culture,
and literally we interpret it through our own lens.
Mm-Hmm. . Yes. Right.
Um, or we have no idea how to interpret it,
because the words, the literal translation
in English just makes
- No sense.
No sense at all. No sense at all.
And they, and they think too, and it,
and the opposite is true as well.
You, you interpret the other direction.
And, and our idioms in the United States are not going
to make sense in other languages, or,
- Or they're gonna be most likely, or they're gonna be
interpreted through the culture of the listener.
- Well, they're probably gonna do
that anyway. Right. Because that's why we,
- Like God helps those who help
- Others.
Right. Right. Yeah.
So you, and, and,
but if, if the language is different too,
they may just be interpreted incorrectly.
So that not at all what you're intending,
even if it was interpreted, um, well,
it won't be interpreted correctly then at all, will it, if,
if you're getting, if the words used in the interpretation,
I've really gone down a rabbit hole.
- Yeah. It's diving in. Give
- Us an example.
Going down a rabbit hole. Well,
- There's one - I just thinking of.
Isn't that, isn't that an
- Yeah.
Going down a rabbit hole. Down a rabbit hole. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I was thinking of when pigs fly, see
- How clever and witty I am.
Excuse me. Well, that's
- Moving right along. .
- Um, - I was thinking of when pigs fly, right.
I mean, that's when I use all the time
without thinking about it.
Yeah. And someone could say,
why are we talking about pigs flying?
- That's right. Huh. Sure. - And I could see that very much
- Happening.
- There's no cultural context for
- Understanding, but I'll just be saying it,
and hopefully I try to have some awareness
that maybe someone didn't under, but,
- But I think that - Also probably would not,
- I think there's also an aspect to it that it, that goes
beyond international cultural uhhuh, uh, to,
to national cultural aspects.
Oh. And even just, um, corporate culture aspects
of using certain phrases that are, are, are used in ways
that aren't used in other parts of your state, your town.
Sure. Your your associates. Yeah. I could see that too.
And, and so you might use them in the group and,
and you could very easily be misconstrued Yeah.
In the, in the process of doing that.
There's a phrase, uh, in the United States
that is used pretty regularly, which,
and especially in business type of things, they might,
someone might bring something up
and you might say, well, that came outta left field.
And Right in, you have to
- Know, you have to know baseball's in order
- To make sense. Lot
- IDs.
It's a baseball with's, a lot of baseball IDMs.
It's very good for idiom. Mm-Hmm. .
And, but also it's, it's any kind of, there's a lot
of sports idioms in a lot of areas.
- Yeah. And I think I, - Well,
I'll touch base with you in the morning. Right,
- Absolutely. Particularly
- Baseball. I've noticed
- That idea is from left field. Yes. Well, it's
- Older - Too.
Yeah. That idea is from left field Uhhuh outta left field.
- Yep. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. There's a ton. Yeah. Yeah.
And, and, and it's absolutely it.
So it becomes kind of a, um, it's,
- You're in the ballpark.
- Absolutely. There's Yes. Yeah. There's a lot.
Well, that's, yeah. I, let's just ballpark this. Yeah.
People will say, and Right. You know, what,
- Is that a ballpark figure? But
- If you, but if you come from, but if you come from a
culture where we don't play baseball,
then you, it's essentially meaningless.
Right. It's meaning. Right. Or don't know
what it means. Maybe you
- Can, the thing is - Contextually figure it out. Right.
- You have to - Kind of work at that. But I don't even
think it's, it, it needs to be,
but my, I guess my point on that Mm-Hmm.
to climb out of the
- Rabbit hole - All down police.
Um, I It's a, it I'm saying it's even if you have people
that don't know sports Yeah.
In the same culture. Right.
You're, you're, you're running into a mini culture aspect
of having it misinterpreted or not understood.
Right. That could have, there's sports even knowing,
even knowing the same language.
Right. Right. But it's not only sports.
I'm just using that one as
an example. I mean, there's, well,
- There's always cultures and subcultures and culture
- Break a leg.
Right, right. Right. What does break a leg mean to a person
who doesn't understand show business?
Right. Right. Now in the United States,
that has become pretty common. Well,
- That's the thing, is it becomes, you,
you understand the meeting behind
- The literal meeting, they start to become, then
they become cultural.
- And so you don't worry about the literal
- Meeting internationally cultural, I think at that point,
because now you've got a vast, um, number of people in the,
in the culture using it.
Right. And thinking
that everybody's gonna know what that means. But
- Outside of the culture, if you hear someone say to you,
break a leg, you might be horrified.
Right. ,
I was in a situation, so listeners may know
that I did the Peace Corps in Jordan several years ago.
And because it was so many years
ago, and I have very poor memory.
I don't remember the idiom that I, so I was in a room
with some friends of friends,
and they said at Idiom, if I remember right,
I think it had to do with chickens.
Don't quite remember. Anyway, the point being,
they were just talking casually between themselves,
some friends of friends, and they said, happen
to say this idiom that I think it was related to chickens.
And I'm sort of overhearing while I'm doing something else.
And it's, in my mind, I'm listening more to
what they're saying, trying to put it in context.
I cannot put it all into context.
So I'm really curious, what in
the world are they talking about with chickens?
Like, I don't think there's any chickens around.
So a little time goes by and then I approach one of them
and say, why, why were you talking about chickens?
Or whatever it was? And .
And they, they had, they explained to me, oh, no, no, no.
This means something completely different. Right.
And I'm there thinking, you know, I've been, I've,
I was in Jordan about a year and a half at that point.
So now I'm going through the process internally of,
you know, why, why didn't I know that?
Right. Yeah. So I've been there,
I've been there where it's like, I
- Think we all experience it, - You know,
had no idea what that meant in one way
- Or another. I think we really do.
- I remember growing up as a kid,
and my grandmother would say,
you should grow like an onion with your head in the ground.
She wouldn't always say that to me, Uhhuh,
but she would say that to others, Uhhuh.
And I would hear her say that.
And I was thinking, why would she wanna
wish that on somebody?
Right. Doesn't just doesn't sound right.
You should grow like an onion with your head in the ground.
Then I realized it's a curse. Yeah. Oh yeah.
It's an old Yiddish curse. Okay. Yeah.
Which means like, you know, you should be stuck in one place
and you should never know anything. Oh,
- Okay.
You should stay, um, kind of ignorant
to what's going on, or naive
- Yeah.
As ignorant as you are right now.
- Right, right. - I gotcha. Okay.
- Sure. So I think the lots of idioms
around cursing everywhere in every culture.
- Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
My wife talks about a Yiddish phrase that her mother used
to use, which was, go knock your head against the wall, is
how it is interpreted.
Right. And, and you're saying, well, maybe
that's not interpreted from the Yiddish correctly.
And No, it is It is.
Um, basically that's what it was saying.
Right. Interesting. And so
- Don't, don't waste my time either. So
- Those of you who understand Yiddish, you might know
what the phrase is out there.
- Right. So Torin, you have, you have an idiom, right? That
- Yeah, I do.
Because there was an article that I, um,
I knew we were thinking about,
talking about idioms idiots talking idioms.
So I pulled up this article from, from i,
- I, that's, that's, that's the name of the episode,
- I think Definitely is.
- I think it has to be. And, and that's what's happening.
, um, pull up this article from Education First
or ef, um, that has these 10 kind of entertaining idioms.
Um, one was from,
I'm just pulling it up, one was from Sweden.
Um, I won't try to read it in the Swedish,
but it translates to, to slide in on a shrimp sandwich
- To slide in. Mm-Hmm.
- on a shrimp. On a shrimp sandwich. Sandwich.
It explains, in Sweden, um, when this phrase was created,
shrimp was considered a fancy food.
Ah. So it's sort of like, you know, in, in us,
we would say someone born
with a silver spoon in their mouth. Ah, right.
- And yeah. - Okay. Right. Okay.
- She got this privilege and everything just kind
of works out for you, and you don't even have to work at it.
- Right. And I'm, and I'm hearing this
through the cultural filter.
Right. And I'm saying, what makes this uniquely Swedish?
Yeah. Yeah. Like, why would Swedes have
an expression like this?
And now maybe lots
of cultures have a similar type expression.
Yeah. But why is it, why, why is it this way in Sweden?
Why shrimp sandwich? Yeah. For the same reason that
to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth has a
slightly negative connotation.
Definitely. Right? Yeah.
It's used to describe people who basically
were not admiring
because their achievements have not been done
through their efforts.
Right. But rather through their privilege. Right?
- Yes, - Exactly. Right.
- Yep. Maybe through their birth. Right.
- And so in any culture that's egalitarian
Mm-Hmm. , that's gonna be
- Sure.
Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Mm-Hmm. .
- So in the US that makes sense.
We pride ourselves on having egalitarian values.
We don't always live up to them. Right. Right.
And we struggle to. Right.
But they are the foundational, I mean, they're,
they're built into the laws of the land.
Mm-Hmm. . And, and,
and in Sweden in a far
more accomplished egalitarian culture than the us
I can see why we would have this kind of video.
Mm-Hmm. . Right.
Because privilege should not be, we all know
that it does give advantages,
but it's not necessarily something that we're gonna admire.
Right. Right. You slid in on a shrimp sandwich.
I could be so happy about that. Don't be, don't be so,
don't be so fully yourself.
- Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.
That's interesting, huh? Okay. Huh. Okay.
Um, but it's still interesting.
And I'm also just finding an inter, I mean,
certainly Sweden is going to be a water-based, um, uh, uh,
place, you know, uhhuh, uh, seafood type of place to use.
That's true. Right? Sure. To use a shrimp,
there's shrimp sandwich besides the fact
that it might have been, but it was also special.
So I'm, and I wanna, I don't wanna go on the road of
how special are shrimps in Sweden, but, um,
but it, well, it was considered fancy at the time.
That's it. Yeah. It may be have been not a common
type of thing to eat. Right.
- It may have been an Indian that developed at a
particularly economically difficult moment in time.
Be could, could be. Sure. I don't dunno. Could
- Be.
I dunno. Right. Um, Dean, were there other, I know you,
you pulled up this article now.
Were there other idioms on here
that kind of stood out to you
- As, as uniquely representative of, of the culture? Yeah.
- Or just fun? Or just fun or both? . Yeah.
Hopefully both. Right.
- Well, - We are doing a podcast
- , well, there was this
- Oh, we're, yeah. Oh, I thought
- We were static.
You might as well say in the neighborhood,
there was this Norwegian in Sweden. Oh yeah. I saw this
- One - Go across the border.
There was this Norwegian one, which translated, again,
the literal translation is there is an owl in the bog.
Mm. An owl in the bog
- Who doesn't use that one. Yeah.
- Or, or . - We,
we don't is basically it in the, in the us Yeah. But
- What does that, what does that mean?
- Right. I don't, I don't know. Yeah.
I wouldn't be able to tell you. Can I guess.
- Please. - Okay.
Well, uh, I, at least here in the United States,
there is a feeling that owls are very smart.
Right. That's what I was gonna say. They're very
wise, so Yeah.
And now whether they are or not, I have no idea, but,
but they, they appear to be,
so I guess we give them that credit.
Right. And so do we stick 'em in the bog? Um, I don't know.
But it's, we, we do talk about things being bogged down.
So meaning that they get kind of stuck. Yeah.
So I'm gonna go with, um, uh,
the owl's not so bright. Okay. How's
- That?
I was thinking like the bo the bog is kind of like murky,
and so they're trying to maybe figure something out. I
- Don't dunno.
I dunno. Either. It's, I think the interpretation,
- I, I haven't looked to see what it was.
I just noticed the idiom.
- So what do you got over - There? Yeah.
So owls are, what does it, owls are fairly,
they're looked upon as intelligent animals.
Right. Right. And if they're in the bog,
that's the reason why they're there.
Something's, something's not right.
So they're suspicious
of something and they're trying to figure
- Out.
Oh. Oh, okay. Okay.
So we were kind of in the right direction. Yeah, I think
- So. We're in the
- Ballpark.
We didn't interpret You're in the
- Ballpark, - Right?
Oh, look at you over there. Yeah.
- Call back - .
No, half our audience
doesn't know what you're talking about.
- Half.
- Yeah. We're gonna go with half. Okay.
- Yeah. . Okay. That makes sense.
So something's, uh, su
- That guy, that guy over there who's
- Listening, right? .
- Yeah. You I'm talking to you there, Jerry. Yeah.
- But, but in Italian, I'm gonna say to you, um, you're,
you're, you're, uh, you're, you're a pizza,
you're a piece of bread.
You're not a pizza, you're a piece, you're a piece of sort
of kind bread.
- Yeah. That's kind of Right. That's
- True. Pizza.
- I'd be like, Ooh, you're a piece of bread. A
- Piece of - Bread.
You're a piece of bread. Yeah.
- Or he's a piece of bread That
- Could go, a piece.
Go many ways. I feel like. Yeah.
- Yeah. I, I'm, this is, I don't know if that's good or bad.
- This is Italian. - I'm, I'm not sure.
I mean, 'cause the Italians are, are, are,
have wonderful food.
Yeah. And, and eat. So
- That's the reason why it's uniquely Italian right
there. So
- Maybe it's - Good we're using food as part
as the basis of the idiom.
- Right. Right. - So maybe it's good 'cause Yeah.
It's delicious. Italian bread.
- I'm gonna go kind of good at least. Yeah. Sounds good.
Good. So, bread, however, see, I, I don't think of them,
although I know they have, you know, their bakeries
and stuff probably are wonderful.
But, um, I'm not thinking them in that, that mode.
So I'm thinking it's kind of your base
or basic as opposed to being Oh, really special.
Oh, okay. Yeah. I don't, I'm making stuff up here.
- Okay. Yeah. No, I would, yeah,
because I would think it's a, it's a lot of bread,
delicious bread related things.
So, yeah. I don't know. I'm gonna say it's,
- Well, it is a good thing.
Okay. And I think the English equivalent, um, the,
the non Italian equivalent would be, uh, to, to refer
to someone as salt of the earth.
- Oh, okay. - Okay. Yeah.
- Okay. - Yeah. You know,
- That's one too, where if I heard that I didn't,
you know, I didn't know that as a, I'm not
- Quite sure what that means in, in,
in American English, but I mean,
- Especially because isn't salt of the,
like, salt in the earth bad?
- No. But salt of the earth is, when you say someone is salt
of the earth, I think that means they're,
they're trustworthy there.
- Yes. But Right. But I mean, literally
- Basic, they're, well
- Salt in your, in your earth,
it's probably not gonna be a good
thing's I if you're trying to grow stuff. So
- If I'm just taking it literally, I'd go, oh, no.
Right. Why are you calling me? He said, salted
- Beer.
But salt I think was such an important thing. Yeah.
In, in throughout history,
salt has been meant to be a commodity.
- There's an interesting twist to this a little bit.
- That is, it'll we'll be the judge
of whether it's interesting or not.
- As well, our listeners. Tell us, listeners,
- We're talking to you again, Jerry in, in T
or Jerry, whoever you want, wake up in
- Tuscany.
Yes. Okay. And we're in Italy,
but in the Tuscan region, particularly bread, usually, um,
people complain that Tuscan bread, when they eat it
with a meal, is kind of flavorless.
Ah. And that's because it's intentionally
made without any salt.
Okay. Sure. Um,
now this is not the case in bread in other parts
of Italy necessarily.
Mm-Hmm. But in Tuscany, you don't add salt
to the mixture when you're making bread.
Mm. And the reason, as it was explained to me once was that
because salt was very expensive at one time, historically.
Ah, I, I believe
- That's the case. I believe that.
- Sure. So, um, so they left it out there and,
and the cuisine developed over time
where it developed the flavors
elsewhere, but not in the bread. Uhhuh.
- . Okay. - And
but the idea, anyway, that salt of the earth Yeah.
And referring to someone as bread is,
they're both compliments.
Yeah. Right. Okay. Basic fundamental. Yeah.
Trustworthy, dependable.
- Right. Okay. So I see I was interpreting there,
see there's an interesting, uh, dichotomy
because I'm interpreting that almost the same thing,
but not as a good thing saying you were just too
base. You were Yeah.
- You were so fundamental that it's weren't,
- You weren't, you're not special. Yeah, exactly.
- I could see that. I don't think that's what it means.
Right's that we No, no. I, I when is not that? It's not
- That. No. Right, right.
- Now, this is a good thing. - Okay, cool.
What else? You guys, you got another one to,
- To be referred to as tasteless bread.
Right. . It's a good thing.
- . It is a good thing. Reliable. Yes. Yes.
Well, it's not tasty.
- Torin.
You f you found another one.
- Well, I can tell you about one. Okay.
Um, that I, I think is representative of Yeah.
Would definitely be representative of, uh, again, going back
to Jordan of Jordanian
or Mediterranean culture, which is, um, one
that I learned in a class.
I didn't hear it ever said, but I learned in a class, um,
the Arabic is book rfi, mish, mish, mish.
Which literally means tomorrow if
apricots. And so the idea of being
- Tomorrow, if apricots - Tomorrow, if apricots.
Okay. So literally meaning like tomorrow if apricots bloom
or if the apricots are available.
Uhhuh. Um, the problem being that there's only a very,
very short season when apricots are actually blooming.
- Ah. And - Even when they do,
they don't last very long and you can't store them.
Yes. So it basically, it sort of gets back to when pigs fly.
It's sort of like Yeah.
Tomorrow with apricots, but there aren't gonna be
- Apricots.
Yeah. That's a pigs fly uhhuh. That's the Jordanian version.
Exactly. When pigs fly. Yeah. When
- Pigs fly, for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
'cause it's not, this ain't gonna happen.
- But that's be one again, if I had heard it in
conversation, didn't know that. Yeah.
- Like, what the heck are you talking about? Why
- Are we talking about apricots?
Yeah. Are you growing apricots?
Right. I could see myself asking that.
- Oh, oh, okay. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, there's an interesting thing happening in,
in, in, in American English, and I'm,
and this is just in the United States that it is,
that this is happening with,
but I know we've talked about this a little bit in the past,
but still in the, in the midst of all of this.
And that is what we refer to here as ASAP or Mm-Hmm.
as soon as possible. Mm-Hmm. .
- Well, acronyms are very confusing.
- Very confusing. And to some degree
it has crossed over from being not only an acronym though,
but the, the actual phrase as soon as possible.
Right, right. Right. Is becomes an idiom
because according to who is
- Possible, what does that mean? And
- If you're dealing with culture that have a
different concept of time,
- Ah, ah, - Yeah.
- So that gets broken up. Then what becomes
- Possible if you're dealing with individuals
who have a different concept of time,
- Well, individuals, concepts of time,
they're often culturally determined
- And will to, to some degree.
Yes. I think you're right. Yep.
But I'm saying in the United States, you send me something
that says as soon as possible, my first reaction to that
has been for a long time is get this done when you
- Can.
Right. As opposed to right now.
- Now if you look out and throw all the things out there,
and of course online where everything is true, ,
if you look as soon as possible, is interpreted as now.
Sure. Right now. No, it totally.
- So - You gotta get it done now.
- Stop everything, do this and do this now.
- Yes. And that is not really what it's saying. Right.
Because if you literally interpret it,
it means when you have the opportunity,
- That's possible.
- Right. I was working with a customer in Taiwan
who was completely befuddled at the American reaction when
the American asked them to send this package ASAP
to them from, from Taiwan, and he didn't do anything.
Yeah. And the Americanist starts to push on this, like,
I'm waiting for the package, I need this package now.
And he pushed back and he said,
but you said send it as soon as possible.
Yeah. It's not possible for me to send it now, now,
and maybe I'll be able to send it next week.
I can't really tell you when. Yeah.
But you're not asking me
to tell you when you're just telling
me, send it when you can.
- And if you annoy me, maybe when the apricots bloom,
- And if you annoy me, you're never gonna get it.
- Tomorrow of apricots is not gonna be,
but you know, apricots grow better
in a Mediterranean climate. Right. So,
- So it's reference point for them.
That makes sense. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Absolutely.
- Um, I just wanna share, I I, I think it's interesting
to think about the origin of idioms
and how oftentimes, you know,
we don't really know what the origins are.
It's, or it's unclear and there's different theories
because I looked up what the origin might be
to win pig's flag, because I was just curious,
and apparently it's unknown,
but there was a 16th century writing that references.
Um, the author was saying, basically you, like, you know,
when pigs fly, but it was when pigs fly
with their tails forward.
So it wasn't just, when pigs fly
- , now we gotta get 'em going backwards.
- , if you got any more specific. Okay.
- Well, because in medieval times they
were pigs that were flying.
That's true. Exactly. But they never flew backwards.
- Right. Never saw that. That's not gonna happen.
Never. Of course they're gonna fly.
- Yeah. Yeah. And it's only pigs with tails, so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they have to point backwards, not
- The tailless pigs, - You, your,
your grounded tailless pigs have nothing to do with this
- .
That's right. So you gotta specify here
- It's a, or if they have a tail in the front
Uhhuh too. Yeah. So,
- Well, we've seen the unicorn tapestries, so we know
that unicorns existed in the middle age.
Of course. Absolutely. So we also seen, wait
- A minute, what, what are you saying?
We've also seen, we don't exist now,
- We've also seen the piggy tapestries, haven't we? The
- The piggy Yes. The piggies, the
- Pigs, the flying pigs, the ones
that were flying. Absolutely. They're also from the,
- With the little wings.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh,
- Nice.
But then interestingly, to your point,
they're not flying backwards.
- They're not, see you get those tapestries out there,
you might think, you know, those pigs can fly.
Yeah. But I don't see 'em flying backwards, so.
Sure. Makes perfect
- Sense.
That really, that really tickled me.
- And we think we are messed up as,
as a humans at this point.
And by the way, certainly footnote here, we are messed up.
Oh, okay. Just moving on. Um,
- So, so t just, I, I
'cause in, in telling about, um,
in telling you about when I heard that idiom with chickens,
again, I wish I remember what it actually was,
but when I heard that
and just sort of my internal process there of going,
you know, I should have known what that that idiom by now.
And what are your, what are your thoughts on your,
somewhere international
and a culture you're not familiar with
and you hear an idiom like that?
Maybe it's a business meeting
or a social event or whatever it might be.
What, what are your thoughts on what you do? Ah, how do
- You handle that?
You know, whenever you're en encountering something
that you don't understand culturally, you're in a culture
and you go, wait a minute,
there's something I'm not getting here.
Right. You really should be able to control the situation so
that you can ask the question.
Hmm. I mean, there's nothing really wrong in being able
to say, ideally this is your strategy.
Um, hold on for a second.
Um, I don't understand what you just said.
I think we don't, we don't have a similar phrase in English.
Mm-Hmm. Um, could you explain that? Mm-Hmm.
I've never heard that before. Yeah.
Now I know that sometimes you can't do that.
You can't stop the business negotiation necessarily.
Or, or maybe there's a tense moment
and your relationship is not as good as it should.
So that you asking them
to explain themselves might be interpreted as, uh, sure.
As, as a problem.
But ideally you should be able to, and,
and I, I think for most people, in most circumstances,
they can much more than they think they can stop the show
and say, whoa, you know, I've never heard
that phrase before.
We don't use that in English. What does that mean? Yeah.
And because everybody knows
that there are things you are gonna say and,
and, and you can add.
And by the way, if I ever say anything
that you don't understand, please,
please ask me. That's what I
- Was gonna say. I imagine
- It must, must be make it reciprocal
- Must be flow. Yeah.
- Appreciation of,
we wanna make sure there's no gaps in communication.
- Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
- Okay. And I think too, you mentioned in, in, in,
in your explanation there in like negotiations and stuff
and whether you could stop it at that moment.
And I think when you really think about that in a business
or a personal negotiation for that matter, um, if,
if you didn't understand something like that as opposed
to thinking you can figure it out.
Mm-Hmm. you probably should make sure you know
what the heck they were saying.
- Absolutely. - 'cause otherwise you could really end up in
a, in a bad spa, in a bad place. Yeah.
- And it sounds like, you know,
'cause again, I, I maybe wasn't giving myself,
and by the example, I gave a ton of grace in that moment.
I was sort of saying, I, I should have
known more, but maybe Yeah.
Giving some, some grace to yourself and the other, and Yeah.
The other party there saying, yeah, gaps
of communication gonna happen, let's try to bridge that.
- Right. I mean, they know that you're not of their culture.
Right. Right. So as soon as you admit that,
and by the way, if I ever say anything
that you don't understand, please ask me.
Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I'll do my best to explain.
- Yeah. I'm sure I used many, uh,
baseball related idiom idioms
- Probably without even thinking about.
I'm sure I did. Yeah.
And I think in another thing that goes with it, I mean,
I took a lot of years of Spanish
and, um, remembered unfortunately not anywhere near
as as much as I should have. Same
- With my French.
- Yeah. And, you know, kicked back in when I went to places
that were Spanish speaking countries.
But, but it, to a degree at least,
but it, it's, it's a how much do you get taught idioms,
you know, I guess it depends on the language
instruction you're getting.
- And most of the time you're getting it.
It's subliminally you grow up with it. Mm-Hmm.
- . - Well, that's it. It's so conversational.
- I mean Yeah. So it is, I don't know that it's built in
'cause you're getting vocabulary,
vocabulary doesn't help you with idioms that's
- Not gonna go - There.
Right. Because that's a literal translation of the word.
Yeah. So it's what are you doing with that?
You now, you're trying to put it together
and pull it apart in a, in a manner
that is gonna be confusing
- In, in my experience, working with people
who are working in other countries
and my own personal experience, not only with the people,
but myself as well.
Time and time again, we have this inclination,
I've seen this and, and, and,
and I think we need to be conscious of it, uh, um, to,
if we ask a question where I'm afraid I'm going
to be seen as foolish Mm.
Or I'm afraid I'm gonna be seen as ignorant.
And the truth is, you are ignorant. Right. That's okay.
Because you don't know the culture. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah.
Right. It's okay. Right. I mean, you get a pass on this.
Yeah. Especially when you remind the other person that,
by the way, I'll give you a pass when you do it too.
Right? Sure. Two way street.
So we tend to avoid asking these kinds of questions at,
or making statements that imply some way
that you don't know something about them.
Right, right. Truth is they know you
don't know anything about them.
Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. Or, or
that you're missing this information. Mm-Hmm.
- And also I think you're a, if you ask for their help Yeah.
It's like, uh, I think it's a fairly, you open
- Universal.
- You sure. Do you really open the door?
I think that's a universal reaction.
I think you can say if I'm wrong,
but I think across cultures you're gonna find
people respond to that.
Yeah. As opposed to the kind of the,
the whole mess you can get into when you're,
- And one, and one of the nice things that is
that people really love to talk about their culture.
Hmm. Yeah. So if you don't understand an idiom
or any aspect of their culture,
- Ask Yeah.
- Most of the time it's opening a door that allows
for the building of a relationship.
Mm-Hmm. that is important.
- I think it's also very possible,
as we've already said a couple of times,
but I think it's very possible that the person
or the people who are using the idiom are not seeing it
as something, um, yeah.
Extraordinary at all. Yeah.
So they're seeing it as, as very,
very common and Right. Very,
- Very happy to Yeah.
Say, oh, oh, you know, I didn't realize that, that that was,
you know, again, a gap of communication here,
so I'm happy to explain it.
Yeah. Yeah. Didn't, didn't even
think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Nice.
- Yeah. Absolutely. Nice. Well, that's helpful. Yeah.
To me, Well, you know, I,
- Well, I, I feel less of an idiot at
- Yeah. I don't feel
- Anymore.
- I idiot. Yeah, exactly.
- I'm, I'm not the idiot idiot
that I was when we started. Yeah.
- . Yeah. Okay, we'll go with that.
I'm a different shade of I . Yeah.
I think I, I I like that. Yes.
We pulled a different crayon out of the Cray box.
- It's a song from the seventies
- Level of .
- Shade - Of Idiot. Shady of Idiot.
It may very well have been. Yes.
It, um, Well, I, I, I think we've,
we've covered ground very nicely in this
subject and I think so too.
And I think there's, honestly, I'm gonna say there's
so many idioms to Covered, grounded sort of an idiom.
We might, we might revisit this. Yes. Mm-Hmm.
, yeah. Maybe. Yeah.
Covered ground, I guess it would be. Yeah. Yeah.
There we go. I'm not sure at all where
that would come from .
I would imagine. I can imagine.
But we don't have time to. Yeah.
- I don't know. And now I feel like an idiot
- Again because I don't know.
Oh, well, well, as the old phrase goes,
you don't know what you don't know.
- Again, deep. - Well, that's why we are.
And, and that's why we are here.
- Yes. And also, but the reason we're here is
because, oops, your
- Culture showing, your showing
- Smell you
before you run off
and disappear back into your own cultures.
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