1 00:00:00,755 --> 00:00:01,845 - Okay, we are rolling. 2 00:00:02,945 --> 00:00:05,365 And you're making banging noises 3 00:00:05,365 --> 00:00:06,645 over there. For some reason, 4 00:00:06,865 --> 00:00:08,085 - I'm keeping myself awake. 5 00:00:08,505 --> 00:00:09,925 - I'm not sure. Wow. 6 00:00:10,345 --> 00:00:12,605 - I'm sticking myself with a poker. Nice 7 00:00:12,885 --> 00:00:13,885 - . 8 00:00:14,115 --> 00:00:16,405 Well, here we are in the studio, and, and, um, 9 00:00:16,905 --> 00:00:18,605 and first of all, we're, we're glad 10 00:00:18,605 --> 00:00:19,685 to be back in the studio. 11 00:00:19,735 --> 00:00:21,445 We're glad to be back recording again. 12 00:00:21,455 --> 00:00:24,445 We've taken a little hiatus and we are back. 13 00:00:24,905 --> 00:00:28,565 And, um, so, uh, anyway, that's, that's, 14 00:00:28,745 --> 00:00:29,965 I'm Tom Peterson and 15 00:00:29,965 --> 00:00:31,045 - Dean Foster. And 16 00:00:31,045 --> 00:00:33,205 - We have Torin with us today, our producer. 17 00:00:33,295 --> 00:00:35,725 Hello. Hey, we're all to, we're all in studio. 18 00:00:36,375 --> 00:00:39,925 Sorry, I didn't mean to step on your, uh, hello there, Dean. 19 00:00:40,545 --> 00:00:43,245 You didn't, I didn't. No. Oh, I tried to . 20 00:00:43,305 --> 00:00:44,525 Um, all right. 21 00:00:44,595 --> 00:00:46,365 Well, so we've been trying to figure out 22 00:00:46,365 --> 00:00:48,565 what the heck we should talk about in this, in this podcast. 23 00:00:49,185 --> 00:00:52,645 And, um, and I'm thinking we should talk about something 24 00:00:52,645 --> 00:00:56,565 that is, um, currently notorious 25 00:00:57,385 --> 00:01:00,235 the symbols of, well, 26 00:01:00,255 --> 00:01:01,955 I'm not talking about an instrument in a band. 27 00:01:02,375 --> 00:01:05,275 I'm talking about, uh, yeah. Thank you, . Thank you. 28 00:01:05,495 --> 00:01:06,675 Simple section came to life. 29 00:01:07,395 --> 00:01:08,355 - Actually, we can I get a range shot? We probably, 30 00:01:08,355 --> 00:01:08,795 that we meet. 31 00:01:08,795 --> 00:01:10,355 We'll need that from time to time. . Yeah. 32 00:01:10,545 --> 00:01:11,875 - Yeah. Okay. I'm all over it. 33 00:01:12,155 --> 00:01:14,075 I played percussion in high school, so I'm all over it. 34 00:01:14,175 --> 00:01:17,035 Got a snare drum available. I, I do actually. Not 35 00:01:17,035 --> 00:01:17,915 - Far from your Nice, how about a penny 36 00:01:17,915 --> 00:01:18,875 whistle? Very nice . 37 00:01:19,155 --> 00:01:21,595 - I don't, I'll find it though. Penny whistle. Remember her? 38 00:01:22,195 --> 00:01:23,795 - I, I think I dated her in the seventh grade. 39 00:01:24,015 --> 00:01:26,355 - In the seventh grade. It's always the seventh grade. 40 00:01:26,635 --> 00:01:28,075 Interesting. That was a busy year for you. 41 00:01:28,295 --> 00:01:29,915 - Oh, it was a very busy year. 42 00:01:30,145 --> 00:01:33,435 - Yeah. Seventh grade after that was all downhill. Uh oh. 43 00:01:33,435 --> 00:01:35,835 Well, um, yeah, no, it's not, 44 00:01:35,935 --> 00:01:39,195 not symbols like you crash in an, in a band or an orchestra, 45 00:01:39,295 --> 00:01:43,355 but, uh, symbols like, uh, symbology, like, um, 46 00:01:43,545 --> 00:01:46,595 what Dan Brown has made a lot of money writing about. Oh, 47 00:01:46,595 --> 00:01:48,915 - Well, you know, this is, there's a cultural piece to this, 48 00:01:49,015 --> 00:01:51,195 - By the way, Mr. Brown, if you would like to, uh, 49 00:01:51,195 --> 00:01:53,715 contact us, we will, we will put you on the podcast. 50 00:01:55,035 --> 00:01:57,795 Probably. Um, , I'm sorry, Dean. There's 51 00:01:57,795 --> 00:01:58,795 - A cultural piece to this. 52 00:01:58,795 --> 00:01:59,955 Is there? That's amazing. 53 00:02:00,255 --> 00:02:02,195 The culture has its symbols there, 54 00:02:02,215 --> 00:02:03,395 and there are cultural symbols 55 00:02:03,395 --> 00:02:04,795 for everything all around the world. 56 00:02:05,385 --> 00:02:08,475 It's probably one of the most, uh, unique aspects 57 00:02:08,475 --> 00:02:09,475 of just being human. 58 00:02:09,695 --> 00:02:12,155 The humans have been creating symbols since, 59 00:02:12,285 --> 00:02:13,995 since, since the dawn. Maybe even 60 00:02:13,995 --> 00:02:14,995 - The dawn. 61 00:02:14,995 --> 00:02:15,795 - Even the dawn might be it. 62 00:02:15,945 --> 00:02:18,715 Even the words that you and I are using right now Yes. 63 00:02:18,935 --> 00:02:21,275 Are symbols. They're just nothing but symbols. There's 64 00:02:21,275 --> 00:02:22,275 - Nothing but symbols. 65 00:02:22,275 --> 00:02:25,315 They lead to pictures, visualizations, uh, actions. Exactly. 66 00:02:25,455 --> 00:02:27,915 - Things like that. Or the meaning of a word, you know, is, 67 00:02:28,175 --> 00:02:31,155 is, is is the symbol of the meaning. 68 00:02:31,335 --> 00:02:32,675 - You get, you have to - The word the symbol 69 00:02:32,895 --> 00:02:34,995 of the, of its of its own. Meaning. 70 00:02:35,135 --> 00:02:36,515 - The symbol means nothing at its own. 71 00:02:36,515 --> 00:02:38,195 People have to give something 72 00:02:38,255 --> 00:02:40,755 to it in order for it to mean something. Exactly. 73 00:02:40,775 --> 00:02:41,875 - You know, this is semi - Well, we 74 00:02:41,875 --> 00:02:43,195 summed that up quickly, didn't we? This is, 75 00:02:43,535 --> 00:02:44,535 - We didn't, can I and everybody? 76 00:02:44,655 --> 00:02:46,755 No, we just opened the door. Oh, we 77 00:02:46,925 --> 00:02:47,995 - Could somebody shut the door. 78 00:02:48,265 --> 00:02:49,355 It's killing the sound in here. 79 00:02:49,585 --> 00:02:51,675 - This is what we, this is semiotics. 80 00:02:51,815 --> 00:02:53,955 The, the whole, excuse me, a whole field 81 00:02:53,955 --> 00:02:55,235 of linguistics, and I think 82 00:02:55,235 --> 00:02:56,235 - You can take something for that. 83 00:02:56,235 --> 00:02:57,135 Now, , 84 00:02:58,265 --> 00:03:00,125 - Some people would I pick - Local pharmacist 85 00:03:00,685 --> 00:03:02,125 - and Well, you know, 86 00:03:02,125 --> 00:03:04,365 there's an interesting VV very fascinating. 87 00:03:04,455 --> 00:03:05,645 - We'll be the judge of that , 88 00:03:06,505 --> 00:03:07,725 - Uh, phenomenon. 89 00:03:08,045 --> 00:03:11,125 I think it's, I think it's called semantic satiation. 90 00:03:12,765 --> 00:03:15,085 Semantic. S satiation you 91 00:03:15,085 --> 00:03:16,565 - Say, easy for you to say. And, 92 00:03:16,585 --> 00:03:20,565 - And it proves that the word is merely a vehicle 93 00:03:21,585 --> 00:03:25,485 for symbolizing the concept that the meaning stands 94 00:03:25,545 --> 00:03:26,885 for of the word. 95 00:03:27,155 --> 00:03:29,525 Like here's the, here's the phenomenon. Okay. 96 00:03:29,625 --> 00:03:31,085 If you say a word over 97 00:03:31,085 --> 00:03:32,325 and over and over and over and over again, 98 00:03:33,145 --> 00:03:34,525 - It loses its meaning. It 99 00:03:34,615 --> 00:03:36,685 - Loses its meaning, and you just hear the 100 00:03:36,685 --> 00:03:37,925 sound of the word and the sound, and 101 00:03:37,925 --> 00:03:39,285 - You can't even remember how to spell it. Right. 102 00:03:39,345 --> 00:03:41,245 - And the word becomes very weird. Right. Right. 103 00:03:41,305 --> 00:03:44,885 That's right. Like if I say weird, weird, weird, weird, 104 00:03:45,175 --> 00:03:46,925 weird, weird, weird, weird. 105 00:03:46,955 --> 00:03:48,365 This is semantic satiation. 106 00:03:48,425 --> 00:03:50,085 - He does that again. Hit him with the poker. Okay. 107 00:03:50,345 --> 00:03:51,685 My poker, yeah. It, but it 108 00:03:51,805 --> 00:03:54,285 - A weird, it prove, it proves the fact 109 00:03:54,285 --> 00:03:56,125 that the word is just the symbol. 110 00:03:56,295 --> 00:03:58,925 Right. For the meaning behind the word. 111 00:03:58,925 --> 00:04:00,725 - Right. Uhhuh . It's, yeah. 112 00:04:01,425 --> 00:04:04,165 - So how - Does this, no one's arguing with you, . 113 00:04:05,065 --> 00:04:06,165 - I'm not looking for an argument, 114 00:04:06,585 --> 00:04:07,645 but if you want an argument, 115 00:04:07,835 --> 00:04:09,325 - Stop fighting you and me outside. 116 00:04:10,505 --> 00:04:13,685 He a oh look, is not good. . 117 00:04:15,265 --> 00:04:17,405 Or maybe it's really good. We're not sure. 118 00:04:18,065 --> 00:04:19,565 - So what's the cultural piece to this? 119 00:04:20,565 --> 00:04:21,725 - I don't know. That's your game. 120 00:04:21,725 --> 00:04:23,645 - Cultures use symbols all the time. 121 00:04:23,835 --> 00:04:25,245 - Yeah. Okay. 122 00:04:25,245 --> 00:04:29,165 So, so, so give me a, give me an idea of what you might use 123 00:04:29,805 --> 00:04:31,925 a symbol for in a culture. 124 00:04:32,145 --> 00:04:33,565 Why would a culture use a symbol? Well, 125 00:04:33,565 --> 00:04:35,565 - Well, the, that, that, 126 00:04:35,565 --> 00:04:37,805 - Because it seems like an indirect way of communicating. 127 00:04:37,825 --> 00:04:39,085 - That's right. And so where are 128 00:04:39,085 --> 00:04:40,125 the, where's the benefit of that? 129 00:04:40,425 --> 00:04:42,245 - It has to be, I don't know, again, to be a benefit. 130 00:04:42,245 --> 00:04:44,125 Think that's his job, isn't it? I think so. 131 00:04:44,155 --> 00:04:46,965 - Okay. Many times what it does is it allows you 132 00:04:46,965 --> 00:04:50,965 to say something or infer, well imply something. 133 00:04:50,965 --> 00:04:53,445 Mm-Hmm. without actually having to say it. 134 00:04:53,445 --> 00:04:56,365 Because actually saying it is gonna get you into big 135 00:04:57,005 --> 00:04:58,485 sru, big trouble 136 00:04:58,925 --> 00:04:59,925 - . 137 00:05:00,335 --> 00:05:01,605 Thank you for interpreting. 138 00:05:03,235 --> 00:05:05,085 - It's - A small part of the audience out there, . 139 00:05:06,545 --> 00:05:09,365 - So if you can't say it directly, Uhhuh , 140 00:05:09,425 --> 00:05:12,005 you use a symbol that implies it. 141 00:05:12,285 --> 00:05:13,525 - Hmm. Ah, - Right. 142 00:05:14,185 --> 00:05:15,965 So, you know, one of the things that comes to mind, 143 00:05:15,965 --> 00:05:17,725 and we've, we've had, we've discussed this in other, 144 00:05:17,855 --> 00:05:19,525 other episodes, is hand gestures. 145 00:05:19,525 --> 00:05:21,045 This is the most obvious symbol. Okay. 146 00:05:21,045 --> 00:05:23,405 If you, if you don't say something, you, you can't, you, 147 00:05:23,545 --> 00:05:24,925 I'm not responsible for having said it, 148 00:05:25,425 --> 00:05:27,565 but I indicated it with, with a gesture. 149 00:05:27,705 --> 00:05:28,945 Mm-Hmm, sure. 150 00:05:28,965 --> 00:05:30,225 And we're all familiar with the 151 00:05:30,305 --> 00:05:31,945 scatological ge hand gestures. Sure. 152 00:05:32,055 --> 00:05:34,345 - Some are acceptable and some are far less 153 00:05:34,345 --> 00:05:35,345 - Acceptable. 154 00:05:35,345 --> 00:05:36,625 And the fact that the same gesture might have different 155 00:05:36,625 --> 00:05:37,785 meanings in different cultures. 156 00:05:37,785 --> 00:05:40,385 Right. And I think we discussed this in previous, 157 00:05:40,505 --> 00:05:41,545 I think we have discuss Mm-Hmm. 158 00:05:41,585 --> 00:05:42,585 . Yep. Well, the same thing. 159 00:05:43,205 --> 00:05:44,945 So that, that's a, that's one of the reasons 160 00:05:45,125 --> 00:05:48,185 to avoid association of guilt with something 161 00:05:48,185 --> 00:05:49,625 that's going to get you in trouble. 162 00:05:49,915 --> 00:05:52,425 - Right. - Okay. You know, so you say it, it's a code. 163 00:05:52,775 --> 00:05:53,785 Yeah. It's a code. 164 00:05:53,965 --> 00:05:58,205 Now the trouble with codes is that you have 165 00:05:58,205 --> 00:06:00,965 to understand the code in order to be able 166 00:06:00,965 --> 00:06:03,245 to interpret it the way the sender meant. 167 00:06:03,245 --> 00:06:07,925 Right. So unless I'm also part of that information, 168 00:06:08,905 --> 00:06:12,565 if I'm a member of the same tribe, if I'm a citizen 169 00:06:12,565 --> 00:06:16,245 of the same country, if I'm on the same side of an issue 170 00:06:16,345 --> 00:06:18,725 as you are, I probably know the code. 171 00:06:18,725 --> 00:06:22,625 Mm-Hmm. . But if I'm not, I'm outside of that. 172 00:06:22,625 --> 00:06:25,625 Yeah. And, and being outside of it is good for the insiders 173 00:06:25,825 --> 00:06:27,505 'cause they're not gonna get in trouble with the outsiders. 174 00:06:27,505 --> 00:06:31,785 Mm. But being on the, on the outside is also not so good 175 00:06:31,785 --> 00:06:34,105 for the code, because it means 176 00:06:34,375 --> 00:06:36,185 that not everybody understands it. 177 00:06:36,465 --> 00:06:39,105 - I have no idea what side I'm on now. , . 178 00:06:39,445 --> 00:06:40,985 Am I in, am I out? I think I'm outside. 179 00:06:41,185 --> 00:06:43,585 I, I think you right now. Yes. Uh, am I, yeah. Okay. 180 00:06:43,985 --> 00:06:46,105 . Well, let get that door open and let me back in. 181 00:06:46,105 --> 00:06:47,145 There's a lot, there's, there's a coated message. 182 00:06:47,145 --> 00:06:50,185 There's a lot that's not coded at all. . 183 00:06:52,265 --> 00:06:53,825 I, I, I hate to say this, 184 00:06:53,845 --> 00:06:56,905 but I think I actually followed you on that. 185 00:06:57,135 --> 00:06:59,545 Yeah. For those of you listening, I, if I were you, 186 00:06:59,645 --> 00:07:02,465 I'd rewind and and go back at it again. Uh, just 187 00:07:02,565 --> 00:07:03,565 - And just listen again. 188 00:07:03,565 --> 00:07:04,585 Yeah. And listen again 189 00:07:04,585 --> 00:07:06,545 and listen again until all the words lose and mean, and then 190 00:07:06,545 --> 00:07:07,865 - Speed it up, up so that dean sounds like a 191 00:07:07,865 --> 00:07:09,345 chipmunk, if that's even better. 192 00:07:09,695 --> 00:07:11,305 Okay. It'll look like we have a, 193 00:07:11,545 --> 00:07:13,305 a billion listeners, so please go ahead. 194 00:07:13,545 --> 00:07:17,865 . Listen, many times we don't Hold on. What just 195 00:07:18,045 --> 00:07:21,385 - So, so many things are codes how we dress as a code. 196 00:07:21,775 --> 00:07:24,585 Okay. How we wear our hair is a code hair. 197 00:07:24,725 --> 00:07:27,145 And is remarkable for its coding. 198 00:07:27,685 --> 00:07:30,825 Really for the oh, for the message that it sends. 199 00:07:31,365 --> 00:07:35,185 The way, the way we choose to wear our hair hairstyles, it, 200 00:07:35,255 --> 00:07:37,625 it's coated, uh, to indicate whether 201 00:07:37,625 --> 00:07:42,105 or not you are of a certain group or Oh sure. 202 00:07:42,105 --> 00:07:45,985 Or not of a certain group of the colors that we use to dress 203 00:07:46,015 --> 00:07:49,865 with, the colors that we use to identify our, 204 00:07:50,165 --> 00:07:52,865 our identity or association with a particular group. 205 00:07:52,915 --> 00:07:53,785 Uhhuh . Mm-Hmm. , um, 206 00:07:53,785 --> 00:07:54,705 throughout history. 207 00:07:54,705 --> 00:07:56,905 Mm-Hmm. , we've got tons 208 00:07:56,925 --> 00:07:58,465 and tons of different examples of this. 209 00:07:58,625 --> 00:08:01,065 I mean, I think back to the, uh, what was it? 210 00:08:01,065 --> 00:08:02,265 The War of the Roses in England 211 00:08:02,265 --> 00:08:05,785 and the 14th century, 14th, 15th, hundreds, you had the war 212 00:08:05,785 --> 00:08:07,505 of the roses, the white rose. 213 00:08:07,595 --> 00:08:08,945 Right. And the red rose. Right. 214 00:08:08,965 --> 00:08:11,025 And so everybody knows which sides you're on, you know? 215 00:08:11,025 --> 00:08:13,985 Right. Mm-Hmm. symbols are like emotions. 216 00:08:14,535 --> 00:08:18,625 Symbols are to society as to emotions are 217 00:08:18,645 --> 00:08:19,745 to individuals. 218 00:08:20,135 --> 00:08:22,545 They're shortcuts to 219 00:08:23,925 --> 00:08:25,375 understanding something. 220 00:08:26,075 --> 00:08:29,455 In other words, individual emotions through evolution 221 00:08:30,245 --> 00:08:33,055 gave us the, uh, ability to 222 00:08:34,085 --> 00:08:35,935 feel something in response 223 00:08:35,955 --> 00:08:38,495 to a particular situation which allowed us action. 224 00:08:38,495 --> 00:08:39,455 Mm-Hmm. to deal 225 00:08:39,455 --> 00:08:40,495 with. And you can to deal with that, 226 00:08:40,875 --> 00:08:42,335 - It becomes, you can group feel it at 227 00:08:42,335 --> 00:08:44,615 that point, and you're part of that group. Right. 228 00:08:44,615 --> 00:08:46,815 - And that, well, that's where culture comes in. Right. 229 00:08:46,815 --> 00:08:48,855 Okay. Right. But even pre culture, just 230 00:08:48,855 --> 00:08:50,735 as when we were Neanderthals Mm-Hmm. 231 00:08:50,775 --> 00:08:53,095 the whole idea. But you 232 00:08:53,095 --> 00:08:54,295 - Were a Neanderthal. Go ahead. 233 00:08:54,455 --> 00:08:56,485 - I have, I have 6% Neanderthal. 234 00:08:56,845 --> 00:08:58,525 - I, you, we you had to tell us that, 235 00:08:58,585 --> 00:08:59,885 or we knew that. We know 236 00:08:59,885 --> 00:09:00,885 - Pretty much. 237 00:09:00,885 --> 00:09:03,125 And I think, I think I think the average is like four, 238 00:09:03,555 --> 00:09:04,555 - 4%. 239 00:09:04,555 --> 00:09:05,165 Is that right? Uh, well, 240 00:09:05,485 --> 00:09:06,765 I wondered why you were always walking 241 00:09:06,765 --> 00:09:08,085 around picking up berries 242 00:09:08,225 --> 00:09:10,365 and things like that and eating them. Don't 243 00:09:10,415 --> 00:09:12,005 - Short sell the Neanderthals. 244 00:09:12,195 --> 00:09:15,325 - Well, I'm, I did I I actually shortell them some of my, 245 00:09:15,345 --> 00:09:16,525 uh, some of my stock. 246 00:09:16,525 --> 00:09:17,725 Yeah, you sold, it was, it was a 247 00:09:17,725 --> 00:09:18,445 - Big deal. You sold it the wrong 248 00:09:18,445 --> 00:09:19,445 - Time. 249 00:09:19,445 --> 00:09:19,845 They're pretty stupid. You know, 250 00:09:19,845 --> 00:09:20,685 they don't know the stock 251 00:09:20,965 --> 00:09:21,525 exchange. Yeah, that's probably fine. 252 00:09:21,525 --> 00:09:22,525 - Then it went up, right, 253 00:09:22,645 --> 00:09:23,645 - . 254 00:09:23,645 --> 00:09:24,525 That's right. It went up immediately. . Yep. 255 00:09:25,295 --> 00:09:27,365 Smart move on my part. Yeah. Well done. Oh, well. 256 00:09:27,395 --> 00:09:29,645 - Well, so emotions are, are shortcuts 257 00:09:30,305 --> 00:09:32,405 to giving us information as to what 258 00:09:32,405 --> 00:09:33,965 to do in a particular situation. 259 00:09:33,965 --> 00:09:35,965 Mm-Hmm. instead of having to intellectually 260 00:09:36,345 --> 00:09:39,325 try to figure out, oh, what's the best thing for me 261 00:09:39,325 --> 00:09:40,605 to do given this situation? 262 00:09:40,605 --> 00:09:44,485 Mm-Hmm. our emotions give us action. Mm-Hmm. 263 00:09:44,505 --> 00:09:46,805 Now sometimes it, we act on our emotions 264 00:09:46,805 --> 00:09:47,965 and it doesn't solve the problem. 265 00:09:48,065 --> 00:09:51,045 It makes the problem worse. We is why we've developed 266 00:09:51,045 --> 00:09:53,125 intelligence subsequent 267 00:09:53,125 --> 00:09:54,845 to the evolutionary development of emotion. 268 00:09:54,985 --> 00:09:57,765 Mm-Hmm. symbols do the same thing. 269 00:09:57,955 --> 00:10:02,685 - Yeah. Yeah. - They are shortcuts to all of us 270 00:10:02,825 --> 00:10:05,205 inside the tribe, identifying with the tribe 271 00:10:05,585 --> 00:10:08,605 and everybody outside the tribe saying, whoops, 272 00:10:08,605 --> 00:10:10,925 they're on the inside and I'm on the outside, or Right. 273 00:10:10,955 --> 00:10:13,405 They're part of them and not part of me. Yeah. 274 00:10:13,785 --> 00:10:18,205 - So if, let me see if I can take this in a direction 275 00:10:18,355 --> 00:10:22,605 that goes to if, if it's a, if it's a very visible one, 276 00:10:22,665 --> 00:10:26,205 not ones that you're trying to do as a subterfuge 277 00:10:26,225 --> 00:10:28,685 of some kind to get away with something or, 278 00:10:29,145 --> 00:10:31,725 or to overthrow something or anything like that, but, 279 00:10:31,905 --> 00:10:35,485 but a very obvious form of symbolism, 280 00:10:36,075 --> 00:10:39,005 then we could look at national flags. Yeah, 281 00:10:39,005 --> 00:10:40,005 - Exactly. 282 00:10:40,005 --> 00:10:42,005 That. There's a perfect example of a s of symbols. Right. 283 00:10:42,005 --> 00:10:43,045 Okay. Yeah. And, 284 00:10:43,065 --> 00:10:45,525 and the, you, let's take a look at the 285 00:10:45,765 --> 00:10:46,965 current situation with Ukraine. 286 00:10:47,075 --> 00:10:51,125 Okay. Right. The colors of the Ukrainian flag. Yellow and 287 00:10:52,215 --> 00:10:53,215 - Blue, I - Think blue. 288 00:10:53,215 --> 00:10:54,905 Yes. Right. It flew outta my mind 289 00:10:54,905 --> 00:10:56,585 for a second. I was thinking of the fact that 290 00:10:56,585 --> 00:10:58,745 - Should be a neanderthal part of his in the mind. 291 00:10:58,815 --> 00:11:01,145 - Took over, we had just gone through, it went berries. 292 00:11:01,405 --> 00:11:03,985 We, we just gone through, through Easter and Passover 293 00:11:04,285 --> 00:11:08,425 and I, I went to a SA Passover Seder, um, last week. 294 00:11:08,765 --> 00:11:10,985 And they had the egg, which is a symbol, 295 00:11:11,985 --> 00:11:15,825 a very ancient symbol on the, of the, on the Passover plate. 296 00:11:15,955 --> 00:11:18,545 Uhhuh of the rebirth of spring. Right. 297 00:11:19,325 --> 00:11:21,585 Um, and, but the host 298 00:11:21,585 --> 00:11:24,545 of the Seder died the Easter egg, the Ukrainian colors. 299 00:11:24,605 --> 00:11:26,385 Mm. Ah, because it's a, 300 00:11:26,385 --> 00:11:29,585 because it is a, a holiday of festival of freedom. Mm. 301 00:11:29,775 --> 00:11:31,065 - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. - Alright. 302 00:11:31,165 --> 00:11:33,785 So those colors, um, the blue is the sky, 303 00:11:34,055 --> 00:11:35,225 it's the symbol for the sky. 304 00:11:35,445 --> 00:11:37,785 And the yellow is the symbol of the sunflower. Oh. 305 00:11:37,785 --> 00:11:40,505 Which grows all over the U Ukraine. Oh, okay. 306 00:11:41,245 --> 00:11:45,505 And, um, these two forces, these two natural forces 307 00:11:46,165 --> 00:11:50,985 create what is fundamentally, I think, part of the reason 308 00:11:51,045 --> 00:11:52,305 for the current situation. 309 00:11:52,535 --> 00:11:55,605 Because the Ukraine has always been the breadbasket 310 00:11:55,605 --> 00:11:58,245 of Russia, if not the world, Uhhuh . 311 00:11:58,465 --> 00:12:02,485 So it's been the farmland, not only sunflowers, 312 00:12:02,625 --> 00:12:06,805 but the, but wheat and all sorts of things would be grown 313 00:12:06,825 --> 00:12:08,645 and produced in Ukraine. 314 00:12:08,745 --> 00:12:10,045 Mm-Hmm. . And without it, 315 00:12:10,045 --> 00:12:13,325 because it's so far south geographically than Russia 316 00:12:13,505 --> 00:12:15,165 so much further south than Russia. 317 00:12:15,645 --> 00:12:19,045 Geographically, if you compare the production in the Ukraine 318 00:12:19,105 --> 00:12:23,045 of food with the production of, of food in Russia 319 00:12:23,265 --> 00:12:25,525 to the north, it, it, it, 320 00:12:25,525 --> 00:12:27,245 it vastly overwhelms the Russian numbers. 321 00:12:27,805 --> 00:12:32,045 Russians have been basically surviving on Ukrainian food, 322 00:12:32,345 --> 00:12:35,445 on Ukrainian sunflowers, on Ukrainian wheat. 323 00:12:35,595 --> 00:12:38,325 Yeah. And so the colors that are used in the symbols 324 00:12:38,325 --> 00:12:40,045 of Ukraine represent this. 325 00:12:40,365 --> 00:12:44,845 Hmm. And if you understand the power of these symbols, 326 00:12:44,945 --> 00:12:46,205 you know, Ukrainians under, 327 00:12:46,305 --> 00:12:49,805 for them the sunflower is incredibly powerful symbol. 328 00:12:49,905 --> 00:12:52,095 Mm-Hmm. , um, you know, 329 00:12:53,035 --> 00:12:55,135 you look at the symbols in Russia, uh, 330 00:12:55,895 --> 00:12:58,935 a powerful symbol in Russia that I think is iconic 331 00:12:58,935 --> 00:13:01,975 to understanding Russian culture is the matrika doll. 332 00:13:03,235 --> 00:13:05,615 The doll within the doll. Within the doll. Within the doll. 333 00:13:05,665 --> 00:13:08,535 Right. Right. Nesting doll. The nesting doll. Mm-Hmm. 334 00:13:08,575 --> 00:13:10,455 . That's right. And so you, 335 00:13:11,395 --> 00:13:13,855 why is this iconically symbolic of Russian culture? 336 00:13:13,855 --> 00:13:16,415 Because I think one of the essentials things you need 337 00:13:16,415 --> 00:13:19,575 to understand about Russian culture I is, is 338 00:13:19,575 --> 00:13:23,855 that there's always this superficial outer shell, 339 00:13:24,635 --> 00:13:28,495 and it hides an inner shell, which hides an even fruit, 340 00:13:28,615 --> 00:13:30,935 a deeper inner shell, which hide, which hides an, 341 00:13:31,315 --> 00:13:33,775 and the, the, the baby 342 00:13:34,995 --> 00:13:39,295 inside the deepest part is very, very fragile. 343 00:13:39,715 --> 00:13:41,775 Mm-Hmm. And very, very weak. Mm-Hmm. 344 00:13:41,955 --> 00:13:43,735 And needs to be protected Mm-Hmm. 345 00:13:44,075 --> 00:13:47,735 By these levels, layers and layers 346 00:13:48,115 --> 00:13:51,895 and layers that keep going to the out, out and out and out. 347 00:13:52,045 --> 00:13:56,535 Sure. So the blustery over the top, super emotional, 348 00:13:57,115 --> 00:14:00,815 um, bombastic, rhetorical outside. 349 00:14:01,205 --> 00:14:04,095 - Yeah. - The threatening outside the, 350 00:14:06,365 --> 00:14:09,985 the, the, the use of the weapons, the, 351 00:14:10,085 --> 00:14:11,745 the constant threats. Mm-Hmm. 352 00:14:11,785 --> 00:14:14,465 - . Yeah. - This is all an out 353 00:14:14,525 --> 00:14:15,785 an exterior cover 354 00:14:16,105 --> 00:14:17,105 - Hmm. 355 00:14:17,105 --> 00:14:19,825 To protect that inner, inner creature body. That's 356 00:14:19,945 --> 00:14:21,265 - Whatever, that's what's driving it. Yeah. Yeah. 357 00:14:21,395 --> 00:14:22,585 - Right. - Huh. 358 00:14:28,885 --> 00:14:32,985 - You, we look at Russia. Russia is a very large country. 359 00:14:33,935 --> 00:14:36,665 There's gotta be, as there is in other large countries in 360 00:14:36,665 --> 00:14:38,065 the United States, China, others, 361 00:14:38,065 --> 00:14:40,225 there's gonna be differences across there. 362 00:14:41,165 --> 00:14:45,385 Moscow is a, is is a far more western, uh, 363 00:14:45,575 --> 00:14:47,985 city than much of the rest of the country, 364 00:14:48,585 --> 00:14:49,665 - Geographically. It is, yes. 365 00:14:49,775 --> 00:14:54,205 - Yeah. And, um, so is it d do and, 366 00:14:54,225 --> 00:14:56,285 and I, I don't know, maybe it's not easy to know this 367 00:14:56,285 --> 00:14:59,285 because it is still Russia and it's somewhat secretive, 368 00:14:59,945 --> 00:15:03,045 but across the country, is there a reason to believe 369 00:15:03,045 --> 00:15:06,525 that there's a, is there a disconnect from the, the forces 370 00:15:06,555 --> 00:15:09,205 that are running things now and making these decisions? 371 00:15:09,745 --> 00:15:11,965 Is there a, is there, uh, that is, 372 00:15:12,065 --> 00:15:14,965 and is it symbolized in any way in, in that, 373 00:15:15,105 --> 00:15:19,645 or is that just another, um, is that just another enigma 374 00:15:19,645 --> 00:15:21,685 of Russia that we really don't know much about? 375 00:15:21,955 --> 00:15:26,725 - Well, you know, vast, vast lands within Russia are 376 00:15:27,495 --> 00:15:28,885 super underpopulated. 377 00:15:28,885 --> 00:15:30,325 Mm-Hmm. And we're looking at 378 00:15:30,525 --> 00:15:31,685 tundra, we're looking at Mm-Hmm. 379 00:15:31,685 --> 00:15:35,365 You know, um, a a a lot of just vast land area, 380 00:15:35,465 --> 00:15:36,485 but not too many people. 381 00:15:36,615 --> 00:15:37,965 Right. And then there are other areas 382 00:15:37,965 --> 00:15:39,205 where there's lots and lots of people. 383 00:15:39,205 --> 00:15:40,325 Right. Yes. Right. Okay. 384 00:15:40,745 --> 00:15:43,005 Um, I think your point is well taken, Tom, you, 385 00:15:43,105 --> 00:15:47,485 you do have Moscow, um, trying very hard 386 00:15:47,985 --> 00:15:52,285 to keep this vast empire within an empire. 387 00:15:52,305 --> 00:15:54,645 Mm-Hmm. , there's the Mareska doll again. Yeah. 388 00:15:54,785 --> 00:15:57,685 Uh, even within Russia as a nation state today, 389 00:15:58,835 --> 00:16:01,725 it's Ru Moscow still has difficulty controlling 390 00:16:03,015 --> 00:16:05,565 every part of that landmass. 391 00:16:05,745 --> 00:16:08,805 And the, the, the fear always is that 392 00:16:09,525 --> 00:16:12,525 somebody somewhere is gonna break away from our control. 393 00:16:12,525 --> 00:16:14,165 Mm-Hmm. . And so we've gotta, we've really 394 00:16:14,165 --> 00:16:15,645 gotta maintain a lot of control. 395 00:16:16,305 --> 00:16:20,365 And therefore it's, it's a natural crucible for autocracy. 396 00:16:20,365 --> 00:16:24,805 Mm-Hmm. recognize that, that never, 397 00:16:25,035 --> 00:16:29,905 ever in the history of Russia have there been any moments 398 00:16:30,165 --> 00:16:34,145 of democracy except very short-lived sparks here and there. 399 00:16:34,385 --> 00:16:37,505 Hmm. Just before, during, and just after the revolution. 400 00:16:37,505 --> 00:16:38,785 Mm-Hmm. And the Civil War. Mm-Hmm. . 401 00:16:38,885 --> 00:16:40,745 But, but it's inconsequential really, 402 00:16:41,055 --> 00:16:45,445 because they went straight from feudalism and cism Mm-Hmm. 403 00:16:45,485 --> 00:16:48,405 . Right, right. To to, to basically communism. 404 00:16:48,575 --> 00:16:50,285 Right. To basically gangsterism, 405 00:16:50,295 --> 00:16:51,365 which is what we have today. 406 00:16:51,375 --> 00:16:54,285 Right? Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. So there's no tradition 407 00:16:54,285 --> 00:16:56,005 whatsoever for, for any kind, 408 00:16:56,005 --> 00:16:59,525 for holding anything together other than OO other than 409 00:17:00,185 --> 00:17:01,965 steely autocracy. Mm-Hmm. . 410 00:17:02,135 --> 00:17:05,885 - Right. - So, to your point Y yes. 411 00:17:06,065 --> 00:17:09,085 Moscow is fearful that it will al that it will lose control 412 00:17:09,785 --> 00:17:12,085 of what's going on within its realms. 413 00:17:12,085 --> 00:17:15,205 Mm-Hmm. and sees the current situation as, 414 00:17:15,305 --> 00:17:17,725 as proof the failure of the Soviets, the collapse 415 00:17:17,725 --> 00:17:21,165 of the Soviets as proof that without this kind 416 00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:24,605 of steely autocracy, they are in fact going to collapse. 417 00:17:24,925 --> 00:17:26,405 Hmm. And, and, 418 00:17:26,625 --> 00:17:29,365 and the evidence of that for them is 419 00:17:29,365 --> 00:17:33,405 that the West is out there circling around, ready 420 00:17:33,405 --> 00:17:36,765 to take advantage of any situation where they can, uh, 421 00:17:37,115 --> 00:17:39,325 they can undermine the authority 422 00:17:39,345 --> 00:17:41,205 of the Russians in that re in the region. 423 00:17:41,205 --> 00:17:44,045 Mm-Hmm. and Ukraine represents that. Mm-Hmm. 424 00:17:44,085 --> 00:17:45,445 , because the majority 425 00:17:45,445 --> 00:17:47,445 of the people in the Ukraine voted, voted 426 00:17:47,465 --> 00:17:49,210 to be part of the west. Right? Mm-Hmm. . 427 00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:52,445 - Right, - Right. So Russia can simply not allow that. 428 00:17:52,445 --> 00:17:53,485 Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. 429 00:17:53,525 --> 00:17:57,805 , um, you know, the symbols of, of, of the, 430 00:17:57,865 --> 00:18:00,965 of Czars Russia was the two-headed eagle. 431 00:18:01,305 --> 00:18:02,925 And still, it's still on the Russian, 432 00:18:03,275 --> 00:18:06,405 it's still the Russian, uh, state seal, I think. 433 00:18:06,685 --> 00:18:10,605 Hmm. Okay. So the eagle is always looking east to make sure 434 00:18:10,605 --> 00:18:12,805 that everybody there is under the control of Moscow. 435 00:18:12,805 --> 00:18:14,325 Yeah. And also west Yeah. 436 00:18:14,345 --> 00:18:17,285 To make sure that the west doesn't do anything to, to, 437 00:18:17,425 --> 00:18:20,125 to stop us from maintaining these, the hard grip 438 00:18:20,125 --> 00:18:23,325 that we need to have over the lands, over which we should 439 00:18:23,955 --> 00:18:27,325 over the lands, over which in which there are Russians. 440 00:18:27,595 --> 00:18:30,285 - Sure. Alright. So 441 00:18:30,285 --> 00:18:31,765 - Symbols, A double-headed eagle. Right. 442 00:18:31,765 --> 00:18:34,045 - Double-headed eagle. There we go. Yeah. Which co 443 00:18:34,045 --> 00:18:36,085 - Code of arms of Russia - Coat of arms of Russia. 444 00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:39,005 - Yeah. Okay. Thank you. The producer finally did something. 445 00:18:39,145 --> 00:18:40,325 You're welcome. That's good. But 446 00:18:40,325 --> 00:18:42,765 - It's interesting now that the, the symbol, this idea 447 00:18:42,765 --> 00:18:47,005 of symbols during this time of war with Ukraine Mm-Hmm. 448 00:18:47,045 --> 00:18:50,765 is, is becoming a code, this 449 00:18:51,365 --> 00:18:54,445 becoming coded language for which side you are on. 450 00:18:55,085 --> 00:18:57,565 - Hmm. Right. So what are some of those symbols 451 00:18:57,565 --> 00:18:59,165 that we're seeing that are, um, 452 00:18:59,315 --> 00:19:00,965 showing us both sides, I guess? 453 00:19:01,355 --> 00:19:02,765 - Well, you know, I think about both sides, I think. 454 00:19:02,765 --> 00:19:04,005 Yeah. The, the Russian Z 455 00:19:04,315 --> 00:19:06,005 - Yeah. Yeah. I've seen 456 00:19:06,005 --> 00:19:07,005 - That. 457 00:19:07,005 --> 00:19:07,365 Where does that come from? I don't under, 458 00:19:07,365 --> 00:19:08,925 I've never seen the etymology of 459 00:19:08,925 --> 00:19:09,925 - It. 460 00:19:09,925 --> 00:19:10,205 I don't know. I'm not, I'm not sure. I mean, 461 00:19:10,205 --> 00:19:11,485 I can take a look, but I remember 462 00:19:11,485 --> 00:19:12,645 hearing it was sort of unknown. 463 00:19:12,645 --> 00:19:15,485 - Right. It's not like a World War Z reference. Is it? 464 00:19:15,785 --> 00:19:16,885 It could be , it could be, 465 00:19:16,945 --> 00:19:18,885 it could be a theory . Yeah. 466 00:19:18,885 --> 00:19:21,245 - I'll take a look. I think it is not entirely 467 00:19:21,475 --> 00:19:22,245 - Sure. Okay. 468 00:19:22,745 --> 00:19:26,205 - So that's being used to symbolize support for the war. 469 00:19:26,295 --> 00:19:27,445 - Right, right, right. 470 00:19:28,065 --> 00:19:32,315 - But the need for coded symbol symbolism, 471 00:19:32,775 --> 00:19:36,155 if you are against the war, particularly in Russia Right. 472 00:19:36,415 --> 00:19:37,755 Is absolutely powerful. 473 00:19:38,015 --> 00:19:40,795 So I've been hearing about different codes 474 00:19:40,875 --> 00:19:44,475 that have developed to indicate by Russians 475 00:19:44,475 --> 00:19:48,755 who do not support the war, that they are not, uh, you know, 476 00:19:48,755 --> 00:19:51,155 uh, of supporting the, the supporting Moscow 477 00:19:51,215 --> 00:19:54,315 or Putin I should say, but they're against the war. 478 00:19:54,895 --> 00:19:57,155 Um, Russians are very proud 479 00:19:57,335 --> 00:20:00,395 of the contributions they've made to, to the world. 480 00:20:00,695 --> 00:20:05,475 And Russian culture has been, um, in many aspects 481 00:20:05,475 --> 00:20:07,675 of Russian cultural literature, the arts particularly, 482 00:20:07,855 --> 00:20:11,515 and I think of ballet, become symbols of Russian, uh, 483 00:20:12,315 --> 00:20:13,315 contributions to the world. 484 00:20:13,465 --> 00:20:14,955 Sure. They're very proud of the ballet. 485 00:20:15,265 --> 00:20:16,555 - Sure. Yeah. They should 486 00:20:16,555 --> 00:20:18,435 - Be Tchaikovsky's Great ballet. 487 00:20:18,455 --> 00:20:19,795 Mm-Hmm. Swan Lake. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. 488 00:20:19,835 --> 00:20:20,875 is used 489 00:20:20,935 --> 00:20:23,395 and has been used historically in Russia, 490 00:20:23,695 --> 00:20:24,915 - But I remember hearing that - Yeah. 491 00:20:24,935 --> 00:20:26,075 In, in many different ways. 492 00:20:27,305 --> 00:20:30,955 Politically, it became used as a symbol, as a tool 493 00:20:31,015 --> 00:20:32,315 for the fact that the government, 494 00:20:33,515 --> 00:20:37,075 whenever one of the leaders died, and the, and, 495 00:20:37,415 --> 00:20:39,515 and the decision makers in Moscow didn't know 496 00:20:39,515 --> 00:20:40,755 who the next leader was gonna be. 497 00:20:40,885 --> 00:20:43,835 Right. They played Swan Lake on state media. 498 00:20:45,055 --> 00:20:49,245 And so every time you heard Swan Lake being played, it meant 499 00:20:49,245 --> 00:20:51,845 that government catastrophe has happened. 500 00:20:52,245 --> 00:20:55,405 , somebody, uh, our, our, our great leader has died, 501 00:20:55,785 --> 00:20:58,725 and we're awaiting the, the next, the next news as 502 00:20:58,725 --> 00:21:00,165 to who's gonna be running the country. 503 00:21:00,985 --> 00:21:03,485 Ah. And so the ballet 504 00:21:03,985 --> 00:21:07,865 and the symbol of the ballet dancer has been used 505 00:21:08,005 --> 00:21:11,705 by those against the war as a statement 506 00:21:11,735 --> 00:21:13,625 that the government is in trouble. 507 00:21:14,975 --> 00:21:18,305 Okay. And we're, and we're going to have to change 508 00:21:18,305 --> 00:21:20,785 that government, or that government needs to change. 509 00:21:21,205 --> 00:21:22,505 Ah, okay. Or will change. 510 00:21:22,765 --> 00:21:24,625 - So is it being used now? I 511 00:21:24,625 --> 00:21:25,625 - Believe so. 512 00:21:25,625 --> 00:21:27,865 I think the pro protestors have been doing that. Okay. 513 00:21:27,885 --> 00:21:30,865 Now, because of the, uh, very punitive new laws 514 00:21:30,895 --> 00:21:33,345 that have come down where you, you're not supposed 515 00:21:33,345 --> 00:21:34,585 to protest the war. 516 00:21:34,585 --> 00:21:35,865 Right. In Russia. Right. 517 00:21:36,365 --> 00:21:38,745 Um, those who are protesting the war are getting rounded 518 00:21:38,765 --> 00:21:39,825 up and, and jailed. 519 00:21:39,825 --> 00:21:40,865 Mm-Hmm. . Yes. So I, 520 00:21:41,105 --> 00:21:43,545 I think I was reading about protestors who instead 521 00:21:43,545 --> 00:21:46,985 of showing up, um, with protest signs, 522 00:21:48,765 --> 00:21:52,505 no war, they were showing up with signs that said no, 523 00:21:53,435 --> 00:21:55,945 first letter of the Russian word for war. 524 00:21:56,485 --> 00:22:00,105 And then the remaining letters indicated by an asterisk. 525 00:22:01,165 --> 00:22:02,265 - Oh. - Uh, okay. 526 00:22:02,725 --> 00:22:04,785 - It, the remaining relic letters. Yeah. 527 00:22:04,785 --> 00:22:07,105 - Right. Okay. I heard this. Yeah. On a podcast. 528 00:22:07,395 --> 00:22:09,105 There was a podcast from NPR, 529 00:22:09,155 --> 00:22:10,545 rough translation. That was, that's 530 00:22:10,545 --> 00:22:11,545 - Right. 531 00:22:11,545 --> 00:22:13,305 That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, of course, you know, the, 532 00:22:13,365 --> 00:22:16,505 the Russian security forces are looking, so, 533 00:22:16,525 --> 00:22:18,265 so this is an education for them. 534 00:22:18,285 --> 00:22:20,305 Mm-Hmm. And then they go, they have 535 00:22:20,305 --> 00:22:23,985 to reinterpret whatever the code is as to whether 536 00:22:23,985 --> 00:22:25,905 or not it's worthy of an arrest. 537 00:22:26,925 --> 00:22:29,545 So they're learning whatever the new code is. 538 00:22:29,845 --> 00:22:31,545 And the trick is, of course, to try to learn 539 00:22:31,545 --> 00:22:33,345 that code faster than anybody else does. 540 00:22:33,345 --> 00:22:34,465 Right. And before it becomes, 541 00:22:35,445 --> 00:22:37,425 before it becomes, then you move on, then you, 542 00:22:37,685 --> 00:22:38,825 you force them to move on. 543 00:22:38,925 --> 00:22:41,065 But anyway, and every culture's got its symbols. 544 00:22:41,225 --> 00:22:43,865 I mean, torn, you were in Hong Kong Yeah. Um, 545 00:22:44,465 --> 00:22:45,265 - A few years ago. A 546 00:22:45,265 --> 00:22:46,265 - Few years ago. 547 00:22:46,265 --> 00:22:48,025 During the, during the, the, the, the strikes, the 548 00:22:48,025 --> 00:22:49,025 - Protests, yeah. 549 00:22:49,025 --> 00:22:49,745 The protest that were happening there. Yeah. 550 00:22:49,745 --> 00:22:51,265 When you were talking about colors as symbols, 551 00:22:51,305 --> 00:22:53,065 I was remembering my friend who I was visiting 552 00:22:53,065 --> 00:22:56,505 who would live there for many years, was saying how, um, red 553 00:22:56,525 --> 00:22:59,025 as symbolized pro Beijing, which makes sense. 554 00:22:59,365 --> 00:23:02,745 Um, yellow symbolized pro, um, democracy 555 00:23:03,405 --> 00:23:05,145 and blue represent pro-police. 556 00:23:05,605 --> 00:23:08,305 So it was similar to pro-China with the authorities. 557 00:23:08,565 --> 00:23:10,545 - And didn't the protests initially start, um, 558 00:23:10,775 --> 00:23:12,185 with the symbol of the umbrella? 559 00:23:12,685 --> 00:23:14,305 - Yes. Right. And yeah, 560 00:23:14,325 --> 00:23:15,665 it was the umbrella movement. Mm-Hmm. 561 00:23:15,705 --> 00:23:16,665 - . Right. And why was the 562 00:23:16,825 --> 00:23:17,745 umbrella chosen as this? 563 00:23:17,825 --> 00:23:19,385 I don't remember as this symbol . Yeah. 564 00:23:19,645 --> 00:23:21,945 - But I could look it up. - Please do . 565 00:23:22,055 --> 00:23:25,425 - I'll . But yes, it was, yeah, that's right. Yeah. 566 00:23:25,425 --> 00:23:27,345 And so those are very powerful symbols. Symbols. 567 00:23:27,345 --> 00:23:28,865 And like you're talking about folks, 568 00:23:28,865 --> 00:23:30,345 when they saw the certain colors, and it would be 569 00:23:30,345 --> 00:23:32,545 outside different restaurants and be, and people's clothes, 570 00:23:32,545 --> 00:23:34,545 and they knew, okay, these are folks 571 00:23:34,545 --> 00:23:35,625 that I can relate to. And, 572 00:23:36,405 --> 00:23:38,305 - But, but let me just jump in for a second. 573 00:23:38,365 --> 00:23:40,225 Or I'm wondering, I'm, I'm wondering if 574 00:23:40,775 --> 00:23:44,425 with the symbols like that, then depending on where the, 575 00:23:44,555 --> 00:23:46,725 where we, where it goes, where everybody, 576 00:23:46,725 --> 00:23:48,525 where everything goes, what, what 577 00:23:48,525 --> 00:23:49,525 - Happens? 578 00:23:49,525 --> 00:23:50,485 You mean how this conflict works out with Ukraine, 579 00:23:50,485 --> 00:23:53,685 - This conflict or any conflict over in the past, ah, with, 580 00:23:53,915 --> 00:23:55,485 depending on where it ends up. 581 00:23:55,905 --> 00:23:57,765 And, and of course that's an ongoing conflict 582 00:23:57,765 --> 00:23:58,765 with Hong Kong also, 583 00:23:59,185 --> 00:24:03,285 and where, so where it, where it ends up, those symbols 584 00:24:03,945 --> 00:24:06,565 can at some point become iconic 585 00:24:07,345 --> 00:24:10,685 and become part of the culture in some ways, right? 586 00:24:10,905 --> 00:24:12,365 - Yes, absolutely. And then they become 587 00:24:12,365 --> 00:24:13,605 institutionalized as Yeah. 588 00:24:13,605 --> 00:24:15,325 Usually the victor's symbols. 589 00:24:15,675 --> 00:24:17,205 - Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. 590 00:24:17,205 --> 00:24:19,645 That, that they would have those as, as something that, 591 00:24:19,645 --> 00:24:23,525 and I'm wondering if it's a failure if those symbols just go 592 00:24:23,525 --> 00:24:24,845 by the wayside and, and 593 00:24:25,065 --> 00:24:27,005 or get put over here in the, in the file 594 00:24:27,035 --> 00:24:30,005 that says symbols not to be used in the near future. 595 00:24:30,485 --> 00:24:33,485 - Absolutely. These usually become taboo. Yeah. Or 596 00:24:33,485 --> 00:24:34,485 - Get outlawed overnight. 597 00:24:34,545 --> 00:24:36,925 The swastika. Yeah. Ly outlawed. 598 00:24:37,265 --> 00:24:39,285 - The swastika was nothing more than just a, 599 00:24:39,305 --> 00:24:41,085 an ancient Hindu symbol. Right, 600 00:24:41,085 --> 00:24:42,085 - Right, right. 601 00:24:42,085 --> 00:24:42,925 It's been used before, of course. 602 00:24:42,925 --> 00:24:45,565 - Sure. And then it became corrupted by the Nazis. 603 00:24:45,565 --> 00:24:47,445 By the Nazis. Right. And then it became 604 00:24:47,725 --> 00:24:48,805 verboten. I mean, you can't do 605 00:24:48,805 --> 00:24:49,485 - It. No, you can't. 606 00:24:50,205 --> 00:24:52,605 - Absolutely not. So the symbol itself has no meaning 607 00:24:52,605 --> 00:24:54,125 whatsoever, but it's the meaning 608 00:24:54,125 --> 00:24:55,765 that the symbol represents what 609 00:24:55,765 --> 00:24:57,245 - You apply to it. Precisely. 610 00:24:57,385 --> 00:24:59,245 - Yes. And that's what culture does. 611 00:24:59,245 --> 00:25:01,765 Culture says, I'm gonna give this symbol a meaning. Yes. 612 00:25:02,225 --> 00:25:05,485 And that's where it suddenly becomes very, very powerful. 613 00:25:05,635 --> 00:25:08,045 - Sure. - So, I remember now, my friend did tell me this, 614 00:25:08,045 --> 00:25:09,725 so umbrellas were popular in the protest 615 00:25:09,725 --> 00:25:11,045 because they could be used to protect, 616 00:25:11,045 --> 00:25:12,685 people could protect themselves against tear 617 00:25:12,685 --> 00:25:13,805 gas being fired by the police. 618 00:25:14,825 --> 00:25:16,725 - Ah. - They served a purpose, 619 00:25:17,025 --> 00:25:18,525 and then they can assemble from that. 620 00:25:18,615 --> 00:25:21,165 Right. Very interesting. Um, the z by the way, in Russia, 621 00:25:21,385 --> 00:25:23,245 so it, there are theories that's not clear, 622 00:25:23,265 --> 00:25:26,045 but there were Zs put on the Russian military tanks 623 00:25:26,045 --> 00:25:27,245 to avoid friendly fire. 624 00:25:27,665 --> 00:25:29,165 And so it's believed that it just came. 625 00:25:29,165 --> 00:25:30,445 And then it just really, the Z 626 00:25:30,445 --> 00:25:31,445 - Stood out. 627 00:25:31,445 --> 00:25:33,685 So the Z was saying just it's us, not them. Mm-Hmm. 628 00:25:33,725 --> 00:25:35,685 . And so leave us alone. Why wouldn't 629 00:25:35,685 --> 00:25:36,805 - They use this R 630 00:25:36,805 --> 00:25:38,125 - So again, purpose, I dunno, , 631 00:25:38,345 --> 00:25:39,445 but it seemed to serve a purpose. 632 00:25:39,465 --> 00:25:41,925 And so then it just became a symbol for Yeah, 633 00:25:42,185 --> 00:25:43,185 - That's a good question. 634 00:25:43,445 --> 00:25:47,805 I I it may have meant something else also within all of that 635 00:25:47,805 --> 00:25:48,805 - Could Yeah. 636 00:25:48,805 --> 00:25:49,205 That it seems to be unclear. Yeah. 637 00:25:49,275 --> 00:25:51,525 - Yeah. We don't know at this stage. Yeah. Huh. Well, 638 00:25:51,525 --> 00:25:53,165 - Why are we talking about symbols and culture? 639 00:25:53,905 --> 00:25:56,605 - Why, - Because, oops, 640 00:25:57,835 --> 00:25:59,005 - Your culture's showing. 641 00:26:05,875 --> 00:26:08,285 Yeah. We decided to wait till the end to do it this time. 642 00:26:08,685 --> 00:26:10,645 forgot about that. Oh, wow. 643 00:26:12,785 --> 00:26:15,125 You know what, you know what also, 644 00:26:15,635 --> 00:26:16,635 - Oops. 645 00:26:16,635 --> 00:26:17,445 Something else is showing too. Yeah. 646 00:26:18,425 --> 00:26:20,485 - Forget, there certainly is a lot a lot's 647 00:26:20,485 --> 00:26:21,525 showing something sticking outta here. 648 00:26:21,525 --> 00:26:23,485 We just sue into the conversation. Oh, man. 649 00:26:24,675 --> 00:26:27,005 - Well, well, we are of a certain generation 650 00:26:27,305 --> 00:26:29,965 and we are of at least, at least I out Well speak 651 00:26:29,965 --> 00:26:30,965 - For yourself of Yeah, - Exactly. 652 00:26:31,185 --> 00:26:34,005 And, you know, what were the cultural symbols in our gen? 653 00:26:34,005 --> 00:26:36,645 Because in my generation, I can vividly remember the, the, 654 00:26:36,865 --> 00:26:39,165 the, the, the confusion 655 00:26:39,385 --> 00:26:41,965 and the, um, intensity of the sixties. 656 00:26:42,155 --> 00:26:43,725 - Well, there's one major one that was there 657 00:26:43,825 --> 00:26:46,525 - And there, and that was driven by symbols. 658 00:26:47,355 --> 00:26:49,125 - Yeah. There was a lot. But there was one 659 00:26:49,125 --> 00:26:50,365 that was the predominant one. 660 00:26:50,535 --> 00:26:53,645 There was one Which one was the peace sign? The peace sign. 661 00:26:53,715 --> 00:26:56,485 Yeah. And that, I mean, that was the one that was, that was, 662 00:26:56,565 --> 00:26:58,045 I think was the dominant one. And, and 663 00:26:58,045 --> 00:27:00,405 - The peace sign, by the way was what? 664 00:27:00,435 --> 00:27:02,045 Because it's not universal. 665 00:27:02,795 --> 00:27:03,925 - What do you mean with what in 666 00:27:03,925 --> 00:27:04,925 - The us? 667 00:27:04,925 --> 00:27:05,445 What was the peace sign? 668 00:27:06,385 --> 00:27:08,205 - Oh, - Was it a hand gesture? Was it a 669 00:27:08,665 --> 00:27:09,665 - No? 670 00:27:09,665 --> 00:27:10,205 Well, yeah, it was a hand gesture. 671 00:27:10,385 --> 00:27:13,845 And it was a, it was a drawn circle with a, 672 00:27:14,385 --> 00:27:15,405 um, a 673 00:27:15,525 --> 00:27:17,045 - A disarmament si symbol. 674 00:27:17,475 --> 00:27:19,325 - Yeah. But it's a lot of discussion. 675 00:27:19,325 --> 00:27:21,445 Again, you go back to, we're talking about the z there's a 676 00:27:21,445 --> 00:27:23,485 lot of discussion on where that, where 677 00:27:23,485 --> 00:27:25,045 that sign inside the circle. 678 00:27:25,105 --> 00:27:26,845 Mm-Hmm. comes from some people. 679 00:27:27,035 --> 00:27:28,765 It's the foot of a dove. 680 00:27:29,265 --> 00:27:31,325 Um, some people, oh, there's, 681 00:27:31,325 --> 00:27:32,885 there's a few different things. 682 00:27:33,105 --> 00:27:34,645 It really doesn't matter. All it matters 683 00:27:34,645 --> 00:27:35,685 is what you were talking about before. 684 00:27:35,795 --> 00:27:38,605 What it means now. Does it mean that's a symbol? Yes. Yeah. 685 00:27:38,605 --> 00:27:40,245 What does it mean? Because a lot of people, 686 00:27:40,275 --> 00:27:42,685 when we were growing up, there was a lot of people 687 00:27:42,715 --> 00:27:45,765 that sign meant, uh, things they did not like. 688 00:27:45,795 --> 00:27:48,405 Sure. They were, they were afraid of Mm-Hmm. . 689 00:27:48,465 --> 00:27:49,885 And that they did not like them. 690 00:27:49,945 --> 00:27:52,325 And then you can look back at it in kind of the quaint way 691 00:27:52,325 --> 00:27:54,525 of looking at the sixties and the early seventies 692 00:27:54,865 --> 00:27:57,445 and think it's a, isn't that cool? 693 00:27:57,945 --> 00:28:00,685 But it really, honestly, at that time, it was 694 00:28:00,685 --> 00:28:02,365 so far from just being cool. 695 00:28:02,365 --> 00:28:05,645 Sure. It meant a lot. And it meant a lot on both sides. 696 00:28:05,645 --> 00:28:09,085 Sure. Um, and it was a lot of broad, a lot of pushback on 697 00:28:09,085 --> 00:28:10,445 that and a lot of dislike Sure. 698 00:28:10,575 --> 00:28:11,885 About the peace sign as well. 699 00:28:12,205 --> 00:28:13,845 I and the, and the hand figure of the, 700 00:28:13,845 --> 00:28:16,845 of the right V two fingers up towards other people. 701 00:28:16,915 --> 00:28:18,005 Towards, towards you. Yes. 702 00:28:18,505 --> 00:28:20,085 - It has to be, it has to be palm out 703 00:28:20,105 --> 00:28:20,845 - Saying two. Yes. 704 00:28:20,995 --> 00:28:22,925 - Palm in is a whole, well, in - England that 705 00:28:22,925 --> 00:28:23,925 - Was a problem - In Britain. 706 00:28:23,925 --> 00:28:26,725 Yes. In, in the United States, it would, nobody cared. 707 00:28:26,825 --> 00:28:30,085 But in, in here it was. But it was that, anyway, two beers. 708 00:28:30,235 --> 00:28:32,645 That is the peace sign. It's, it's the, uh, it's Right. 709 00:28:32,645 --> 00:28:34,485 But it should be palm out. It's like showing the number two 710 00:28:34,485 --> 00:28:36,885 like that with your palm toward whoever Churchill's 711 00:28:36,885 --> 00:28:37,885 - Showing V for victory. 712 00:28:38,055 --> 00:28:39,845 Right? Yes. It was from Churchill. 713 00:28:40,185 --> 00:28:42,085 - Yes. 'cause if he did it the other way, it was, uh, 714 00:28:42,375 --> 00:28:44,205 which he probably did to Hitler also. 715 00:28:44,725 --> 00:28:46,925 . Right. And if you don't know what that means, 716 00:28:47,275 --> 00:28:50,365 that means you haven't gone through all of our podcasts back 717 00:28:50,365 --> 00:28:51,365 to a prior episode. 718 00:28:51,465 --> 00:28:52,885 You've gotta go back to the beginning 719 00:28:53,115 --> 00:28:54,485 - With the hand - Gestures and, 720 00:28:54,485 --> 00:28:55,605 and check out the hand gestures. 721 00:28:55,605 --> 00:28:57,605 Here's a hint that has nothing to do 722 00:28:57,605 --> 00:28:58,925 with the Japanese toilet. 723 00:28:59,315 --> 00:29:01,405 Okay? Mm-Hmm. There you go. 724 00:29:01,925 --> 00:29:02,925 - . 725 00:29:03,745 --> 00:29:06,565 - But as far as we know, as far as we know, , um, 726 00:29:06,755 --> 00:29:09,645 - Well, I remember as going through, um, 727 00:29:09,875 --> 00:29:12,045 hearing it back then in the sixties. 728 00:29:12,195 --> 00:29:16,125 Yeah. Um, the peace sign, the disarmament sign 729 00:29:16,125 --> 00:29:17,445 that I think you were referring to, 730 00:29:17,455 --> 00:29:20,085 which looks like the, the dove's foot. 731 00:29:20,225 --> 00:29:21,285 - Yes. The, the mm-Hmm. 732 00:29:21,285 --> 00:29:22,765 The dove's foot pointing 733 00:29:22,765 --> 00:29:24,085 down, I guess you could say. Mm-Hmm. 734 00:29:24,155 --> 00:29:27,205 - Yeah. That was, I I think originally used in Britain back 735 00:29:27,205 --> 00:29:29,245 in the fifties, even before the sixties. 736 00:29:29,355 --> 00:29:32,485 Yeah. Uh, during the beginnings of the disarmament movement, 737 00:29:32,615 --> 00:29:35,245 Uhhuh and Bertrand Russell was actually one 738 00:29:35,245 --> 00:29:36,325 of the, uh, leaders of that 739 00:29:36,485 --> 00:29:37,485 - Movement. 740 00:29:37,485 --> 00:29:38,565 Disarmament, you're talking like missiles and things like 741 00:29:38,565 --> 00:29:39,125 - That. Yes. Nuclear 742 00:29:39,145 --> 00:29:40,145 - Disarm started. 743 00:29:40,145 --> 00:29:41,245 Yeah. So it started to build up after, 744 00:29:41,295 --> 00:29:42,725 after World War ii, right? Mm-Hmm. 745 00:29:42,765 --> 00:29:44,765 - . Right. And so, um, the, 746 00:29:45,065 --> 00:29:48,125 the ver the vertical sign was the missile, the vertical. 747 00:29:48,175 --> 00:29:49,925 Right. Okay. And then, uh, 748 00:29:50,345 --> 00:29:53,765 it was basically an an an Anto D mm-Hmm. 749 00:29:53,805 --> 00:29:56,685 symbol superimposed over the missile. 750 00:29:56,995 --> 00:30:01,765 - Okay. And - Okay. Yeah. So that, that's what, anyway, 751 00:30:01,765 --> 00:30:02,885 - That's, that's a possibility 752 00:30:02,885 --> 00:30:04,285 to what's an, an D What is that? 753 00:30:04,435 --> 00:30:07,125 - Anto d you know, in Europe, the road signs 754 00:30:07,135 --> 00:30:09,405 where you can't enter, it's a circle. 755 00:30:09,545 --> 00:30:11,685 Do not enter, do not enter diagonal slash 756 00:30:11,785 --> 00:30:13,365 Gotcha. Do not enter, except it 757 00:30:13,365 --> 00:30:15,245 - Doesn't go all the way across. And I 758 00:30:15,245 --> 00:30:16,245 - Use the French version. 759 00:30:17,585 --> 00:30:19,045 - Wow. What a show off. 760 00:30:20,305 --> 00:30:23,085 You know what part problem, you know, what we're, we, 761 00:30:23,085 --> 00:30:24,725 we're gonna have to talk more about this. Can 762 00:30:24,725 --> 00:30:25,725 - We go here? 763 00:30:26,345 --> 00:30:28,885 - No, no, no, no, no. 764 00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:31,405 , which is clearly they use 765 00:30:31,405 --> 00:30:32,525 that a lot in France. That's 766 00:30:32,525 --> 00:30:33,605 - French for No, that's - Right. 767 00:30:34,665 --> 00:30:35,925 Is that what that was? Yeah. 768 00:30:36,235 --> 00:30:37,485 love it when he spit French. 769 00:30:37,725 --> 00:30:40,045 I know. I love it. That's great. You know, . 770 00:30:40,865 --> 00:30:42,445 But look, I clearly, 771 00:30:42,445 --> 00:30:44,965 there's another episode in this because, well, 772 00:30:44,965 --> 00:30:47,285 - You know, we've just been discussing symbols and, 773 00:30:47,285 --> 00:30:49,765 and I guess because of current events, Ukraine Yeah, yeah. 774 00:30:49,905 --> 00:30:53,845 We, we started discussing, discussing symbols of protest. 775 00:30:54,215 --> 00:30:55,925 Right. Uhhuh. But there's symbols of 776 00:30:56,425 --> 00:30:57,845 so many things. Right? Well, 777 00:30:57,845 --> 00:30:58,845 - Sure. 778 00:30:58,845 --> 00:30:59,365 Right. Well, and, and, 779 00:30:59,365 --> 00:31:01,685 and I mean, there's lots of different movements, which, 780 00:31:01,815 --> 00:31:04,125 which cross borders and, and are, 781 00:31:04,225 --> 00:31:05,685 and are approach to many different ways, 782 00:31:05,685 --> 00:31:07,965 which is another area we can get into at some point, 783 00:31:07,965 --> 00:31:10,805 because you've got, uh, we can talk about the, 784 00:31:10,805 --> 00:31:13,445 what's happened in the United States as far as things like, 785 00:31:13,605 --> 00:31:16,525 uh, different movements, uh, whether it has to do with race, 786 00:31:16,545 --> 00:31:17,645 or it has to do with gender, 787 00:31:17,825 --> 00:31:20,205 or it has to do with, uh, uh, uh, choice 788 00:31:20,425 --> 00:31:21,725 or any of those types things. 789 00:31:22,035 --> 00:31:23,925 Sure. Yep. And, and any of those things. 790 00:31:23,945 --> 00:31:26,085 And they're gonna have symbols with them, which, 791 00:31:26,095 --> 00:31:27,485 which they will find very powerful. 792 00:31:27,705 --> 00:31:30,565 And again, others will find disturbing. Right. 793 00:31:30,625 --> 00:31:31,845 For what, whatever race, depending on what 794 00:31:32,425 --> 00:31:33,645 - I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go way out there. 795 00:31:33,785 --> 00:31:37,125 - Oh, here he goes and - Say that everything, whoa. 796 00:31:37,175 --> 00:31:40,325 Everything we do, every word we say, every gesture we make, 797 00:31:40,325 --> 00:31:43,765 every article of clothing that we put on, every color 798 00:31:43,765 --> 00:31:47,165 that we choose, every, every piece of food that passes 799 00:31:47,165 --> 00:31:49,165 through our lips, everything we do, 800 00:31:49,375 --> 00:31:52,125 every decision we make in every given movement 801 00:31:52,945 --> 00:31:56,565 has all been pre-programmed in our, through our culture. 802 00:31:56,985 --> 00:31:58,085 Is there free will? Yes. 803 00:31:58,185 --> 00:31:59,725 And we can talk about the role 804 00:31:59,725 --> 00:32:01,565 of free will in culture, but you're 805 00:32:01,565 --> 00:32:02,605 - Blowing my mind . 806 00:32:02,745 --> 00:32:03,745 But, 807 00:32:04,425 --> 00:32:07,525 - But that's how much we are coded 808 00:32:07,705 --> 00:32:10,325 and to some degree, controlled by our culture. 809 00:32:10,385 --> 00:32:11,445 Mm-Hmm. Yeah. So, 810 00:32:12,425 --> 00:32:14,485 - Oh, I've got a story about that. 811 00:32:15,115 --> 00:32:16,965 - Okay. Coding as a symbol, 812 00:32:17,505 --> 00:32:20,445 not the winter coating. Yes. But coding 813 00:32:20,785 --> 00:32:21,845 - Or coding on a computer. 814 00:32:22,285 --> 00:32:23,845 - . Right. Or coding on a computer. Right. Right. 815 00:32:23,845 --> 00:32:24,925 - Now, which that one's and zeroes 816 00:32:26,075 --> 00:32:27,765 - From your generation, that's 817 00:32:27,765 --> 00:32:28,925 what you would think. Right. I'm 818 00:32:28,965 --> 00:32:30,125 - Millennial, so that's - Okay. 819 00:32:30,545 --> 00:32:33,565 So all coding in general, yes. 820 00:32:33,745 --> 00:32:35,125 All of human activity is a code. 821 00:32:35,265 --> 00:32:37,005 I'm sending you signals about 822 00:32:37,145 --> 00:32:40,725 so many things just sitting here opposite you talking about 823 00:32:40,725 --> 00:32:41,725 - This. 824 00:32:41,725 --> 00:32:43,285 And I'm a little disturbed by it. 825 00:32:43,525 --> 00:32:46,445 - , we can't look you in the eye. I could 826 00:32:46,445 --> 00:32:50,125 - Say very disturbed, but, um, yeah, sure. 827 00:32:50,195 --> 00:32:51,245 Okay. Well, you can go out on 828 00:32:51,245 --> 00:32:52,565 that limb right there, and you can say that. 829 00:32:52,565 --> 00:32:54,165 And I'm gonna go home and I'm going 830 00:32:54,165 --> 00:32:55,405 to pull the sheets over my head 831 00:32:55,405 --> 00:32:56,725 and I'm never going to move again. 832 00:32:56,865 --> 00:32:59,885 - And that's a code for something. Oh, it is. Damn. Yeah. 833 00:33:00,225 --> 00:33:03,525 - Oh, got me again, . Just when I thought I was, I'll 834 00:33:03,525 --> 00:33:04,525 - Buy that. 835 00:33:04,525 --> 00:33:05,405 - I'll buy it. He pulled me back 836 00:33:05,405 --> 00:33:06,405 - In - . 837 00:33:07,265 --> 00:33:09,205 - And what you do under those sheets is a code. 838 00:33:09,505 --> 00:33:11,005 - All right. Now we're moving out. 839 00:33:11,005 --> 00:33:12,085 Definitely don't hear about That's, it's 840 00:33:12,085 --> 00:33:13,245 time to wrap it out. I 841 00:33:13,245 --> 00:33:14,245 - Meant how you sleep. 842 00:33:14,245 --> 00:33:16,085 - Oh, of course. Of course you do. Sure. 843 00:33:16,095 --> 00:33:17,445 Uhhuh . Sure. Mm-Hmm. , thanks 844 00:33:17,445 --> 00:33:19,045 for ruining it for everyone. I 845 00:33:19,045 --> 00:33:20,325 - Mean, what direction are you facing? That's, 846 00:33:20,325 --> 00:33:22,325 - That's according to, and Wow. 847 00:33:24,385 --> 00:33:27,005 Oh my goodness. Well, you know, 848 00:33:27,665 --> 00:33:29,245 - I'm in the group of not wanting to hear more about that. 849 00:33:29,425 --> 00:33:31,925 - No. People are phoning in right now, actually. Insane. 850 00:33:32,145 --> 00:33:33,285 No, we are taking calls. We're not, 851 00:33:33,535 --> 00:33:35,005 we're not even broadcasting live. 852 00:33:35,005 --> 00:33:36,525 Oh. So, okay. But people are 853 00:33:36,525 --> 00:33:37,685 knowing this is happening. I to get 854 00:33:37,685 --> 00:33:39,525 - Our number, but if you'd like to comment 855 00:33:40,345 --> 00:33:41,345 - Yes. 856 00:33:41,345 --> 00:33:42,525 If you, we, we do have ways you can get 857 00:33:42,525 --> 00:33:43,445 - All us just yell, yelling at your phone or 858 00:33:43,565 --> 00:33:44,485 whatever you're using to listen to 859 00:33:44,485 --> 00:33:45,485 - This. 860 00:33:45,485 --> 00:33:46,245 Just scream us We'll, your window, we'll 861 00:33:46,245 --> 00:33:47,245 - Hear in. 862 00:33:47,245 --> 00:33:47,885 And if you wanna, if you wanna find out 863 00:33:47,885 --> 00:33:51,445 what direction Tom sleeps in , um, just let us know. 864 00:33:51,795 --> 00:33:54,885 - I've actually, I've put a camera up in my room. Oh, no. 865 00:33:55,105 --> 00:33:57,205 And, um, I'm going online now, dear. 866 00:33:57,205 --> 00:33:58,885 So you'll be able to see me dear, dear. 867 00:33:58,885 --> 00:34:02,445 And, uh, now that alone should be a symbol of just 868 00:34:03,085 --> 00:34:04,405 absolute dread and fear right 869 00:34:04,405 --> 00:34:05,405 - There. 870 00:34:05,405 --> 00:34:05,445 Yeah. We need coating to 871 00:34:05,445 --> 00:34:06,325 make sure that never gets out there, 872 00:34:06,325 --> 00:34:07,325 - Right? 873 00:34:07,325 --> 00:34:08,045 Yes. In a coat, maybe. Yeah. 874 00:34:08,995 --> 00:34:10,485 - Lots of coating, - Lots of coats. 875 00:34:10,485 --> 00:34:12,285 Just pile 'em up on top of me, please. 876 00:34:12,345 --> 00:34:13,885 We beg you when All right. 877 00:34:13,885 --> 00:34:15,765 Look at, we're gonna wrap this one up and, 878 00:34:15,905 --> 00:34:17,565 but we'll revisit symbols 879 00:34:17,985 --> 00:34:19,445 and, uh, maybe make sure at some point Yeah. 880 00:34:19,445 --> 00:34:21,725 Maybe the whole drum kit at some point. . Oh yeah. 881 00:34:21,935 --> 00:34:23,365 Sorry, I forgot. Thank, yeah, thanks a lot. 882 00:34:23,365 --> 00:34:25,245 They're taking a break. He got one job. Gosh. 883 00:34:25,445 --> 00:34:26,405 Actually was taking one freaking 884 00:34:26,425 --> 00:34:27,325 job. They should really stop 885 00:34:27,325 --> 00:34:28,045 - Smoking. It's 886 00:34:28,045 --> 00:34:29,605 - Not good for, I thought he, I thought he was asleep 887 00:34:29,625 --> 00:34:31,125 facing the other direction. 888 00:34:31,485 --> 00:34:32,485 889 00:34:33,905 --> 00:34:35,885 - Put Mylas away and - Oh my gosh. 890 00:34:35,915 --> 00:34:38,765 Well, Dean Foster, it's great to be back in studio 891 00:34:38,875 --> 00:34:40,205 with you again and, uh, terrific. 892 00:34:40,925 --> 00:34:42,645 Terrific. And yeah, thank Well, terrific. 893 00:34:42,785 --> 00:34:44,485 You're saying that about yourself or, uh, yes. 894 00:34:44,485 --> 00:34:46,165 - And, and it's nice to have you here too. Oh, 895 00:34:46,165 --> 00:34:47,165 - Great. 896 00:34:47,165 --> 00:34:47,845 Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. 897 00:34:47,845 --> 00:34:50,565 There's a symbol on that, but we'll leave it alone for now. 898 00:34:50,795 --> 00:34:52,765 That was code and, um, . . 899 00:34:53,665 --> 00:34:55,445 It wasn't coded at all. It was pretty blatant. 900 00:34:55,505 --> 00:34:56,845 It was pretty actually. Yeah. 901 00:34:57,065 --> 00:35:00,965 Um, and Torin grad, good to have you here too. 902 00:35:01,015 --> 00:35:02,565 Thank you. And, uh, 903 00:35:02,705 --> 00:35:04,725 I'm Tom Peterson since nobody else wants to say my name. 904 00:35:04,865 --> 00:35:09,085 And, uh, by the way, oops. 905 00:35:10,235 --> 00:35:12,965 Your culture's showing smell ya. 906 00:35:22,715 --> 00:35:26,205 Okay, listen, the way to get hold of us is, oops. 907 00:35:26,205 --> 00:35:30,645 Culture show@gmail.com, and our Twitter handle is, oops. 908 00:35:30,645 --> 00:35:33,085 Culture show. Whether this is the first episode 909 00:35:33,265 --> 00:35:34,525 or the third episode, 910 00:35:34,745 --> 00:35:36,845 or whatever episode that you've listened to, 911 00:35:37,185 --> 00:35:38,325 you should really subscribe. 912 00:35:38,625 --> 00:35:39,765 That's the best way to go. 913 00:35:39,785 --> 00:35:42,245 Really, honestly, I know what I'm talking about. 914 00:35:42,515 --> 00:35:45,205 Alright, so just subscribe through iTunes 915 00:35:45,425 --> 00:35:48,405 or through wherever you get your podcasts from. 916 00:35:48,925 --> 00:35:49,605 Subscribe. Thank you.