I'm sorry, I have to apologize to, to.
Apology accepted . Okay.
Thank that. We don't have any sangria because earlier today Yeah.
I had made the statement jokingly,
jokingly that I would have sangria at the ready mm-hmm. For a recording session.
Oh, today, joking. That's.
The first I'm hearing of this.
And, uh, and of course, I, I wasn't serious. I, this was a flat out, um.
How were we, how were we supposed to, to tell Yeah. That you weren't serious.
Because you know me. Well, you know me. That's fair enough.
That's fair. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. Yeah.
I shouldn't have gotten hopes up.
, and I don't know, I would say, well, it just seemed okay. I don't,
why didn't I get the sangria ready?
Well, not that's what we're asking.
Mm-hmm. . Because it is after five somewhere. Right?
Absolutely. So, yeah.
And I didn't, because I thought, well, maybe,
maybe it wouldn't enhance the podcast if we did that.
Maybe it would have I, you know.
Yeah. Well, we won't know because someone didn't bring the sangria, right? Oh,
uh, ooh, that hurts. Shall we leave it there? Yeah.
Well, po I had something to numb the pain. .
, because, well, we can talk about it.
We are talking about obviously, you know, um, talking about the sangria, and we.
Are, and Yes.
And Sangria is a.
Is a, and disappointment.
a drink that comes from another culture. Ah.
A culture, another culture depending on what our what your,
what your culture is. Yes. Well.
Uh, uh, yes. It is not indigenous to the us It was,
it's an import from Spain. Okay. Right. Where we mix, um,
basically red wine and maybe a little bubbly and some fruit. Hmm.
Variation on blood, isn't it? Sangria? I, I, I believe so. Oh, yes.
Okay. That makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah.
Right. And so it's an appropriate thing for us to talk about, because this is,
oops, your coach is showing.
Hey, Tom Peterson.
Hey, Dean Foster.
Hey, Torin.
Hello. . Torin has trouble when we introduce him.
I'm not feeling really.
I'm, I'm kind of feeling bad about the sangria guys, I have to admit this.
Are you? I'll make it up to you. I really.
You'll, okay. Okay. How .
He'll be sangria in your immediate future. Oh.
Wow. Okay. In the immediate future. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Nice.
It's still a little broad, but, oh, here comes the waitress now, uh, .
Wonderful. That was very immediate. .
The, uh, so, so why, so Dean, you seem to think that, that it would be a,
a maybe disrespectful or, or a hindrance perhaps,
to the podcast or maybe even disrespectful. Is that, is that true? Well.
No, I'm not saying it would have, I'm just saying it might, it could.
Have been.
When we, when we, you know, after imbibing a little bit,
Uhhuh and getting a little bit, uh, jolly with it. Yeah.
It could be terrific. I mean, yeah. You know, also, we don't have to,
we'll never know. We don't have to drink like, copious amounts.
That's the whole idea of,
of consuming alcohol is to relax and to enjoy each other's
company.
Is it the flavor and the taste and different cultures different takes on this.
Okay. You know, and I've been drunk in every culture that I've gone to .
Oh, oh, right. So at some point, well, no,
there are some cultures you can't and the, the Yeah. And therefore you,
you prohibited. Right. So Ations on that. Yeah. Right. Um, it's,
it's hard to find, um, alcohol in every culture.
'cause some cultures prohibited. Yeah. But, but beyond that, and, and we, and,
and there are cultures where we've made the real effort to, to find the alcohol.
Um, and I guess with enough effort,
you generally can , but one must be very careful. . Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember one time I was in Libya,
and this is before a lot of the troubles. Mm-hmm. Um, but not,
not that far back. Okay. This was still under this,
this was during Gaddafi Gaddafi Uhhuh. Yeah. And, um,
my host, uh, had invited me to, to Libya,
and we went out onto the dunes, uh,
on a safari into the Sahara. Hmm.
Which we were fortunate enough to do in a protected kind of way. So it wasn't,
it wasn't as dangerous as it might have been given the conditions in Libya at
the time mm-hmm. . And, um, this guy was, um,
he was able to procure some clear looking
alcohol, um, like gin. You know, you can't really, you look at a bottle of gin,
it could be water, could be water, right? Mm-hmm. vodka, right?
Yeah. Right. So, um, we poured the, what was gin,
we poured it into, um, these little thermos.
And for all intents and purposes,
if anybody asked and anybody saw us out on the dunes and the vastness of Azar
Hmm. That we were just drinking water,
which is pretty important out in the desert. Yeah. Yeah.
And I have to say though, you know,
being out there and in the absolute silence of
a Saharan sunset, and the sun is going down and the desert is,
is cooling off dramatically,
second by second from blazing 95 degrees to
55 degrees in a matter of minutes. Yeah, sure.
The alcohol was very helpful,
to in terms of staying warm. Okay. In terms of, um,
creating a,
a great sense of camaraderie and in enhancing the epiphany
of the moment of the sunset,
you know, disappearing behind these massive dunes.
Yeah.
It was a marvelous, marvelous experience. Wow. Wow. That sounds wonderful.
It does. Enhanced, enhanced by the gin. Absolutely.
Right. Wow. Which was, in other words, you were so drunk,
you don't know what was happening. .
That's all I can recall after that.
Uhhuh uhhuh . I'm,
I'm also thinking there could be a downside to consuming too much alcohol out in
the middle of a, of a desert wasteland, where there's, there's no one around.
And it could be a little dangerous. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yes. You, you.
Definitely gotta moderate there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
One, one of the things being out there that I realize is that you can't,
is it is very seriously dangerous because you can instantly get lost.
I would imagine. Unless you know those things inside out,
you are very vulnerable.
Unless you are, if you're a visitor, I mean, you know, Berber and,
and native people and,
and Libyans that we were with knew the desert or knew this part of it,
and they took care. They took good care of us,
and they knew that as long as we did what they, what they told us to do,
we were safe. Right?
Mm-hmm. , but don't deviate.
But do not deviate. Yeah. And at night, so we set up these tents, right.
And we were all assigned a tent, and it gets very dark.
There are no electric lights out there, right? No, there's no, no, no.
Except the light of the moon and the stars, which are magnificent,
because I bet they are. There's, there's no light pollution. Many.
Right? See.
Yeah.
And we were given strict instructions that in the middle of the night when we
needed to relieve ourselves, um,
you had to walk as long as you kept this,
kept your tent in, in view,
that was as far as you could walk away from it. Mm-hmm. , um,
to find your spot.
Yeah.
And, um, and of course, when I did that,
that night,
I was tempted to see how far away from the tent I could go.
Oh, no, boy, here we go. Without, was this, was, did the gin post this? Yeah.
How much gin had been taken at this?
It probably did. Probably . Probably did Uhhuh.
So I kind of, you know, tested myself. Ah, how, and if,
and, and this, now the sand is not even, you know,
it dips and it goes up and it goes down. Sucks.
You way, and you never get out.
There were times when I said, oh, this is not hard. I can,
I can walk pretty far because I'm going higher,
so I can always see the tent in the moonlight mm-hmm. .
And then suddenly you're on the other side of whatever little dune you've been
walking on. Yeah. And now you're walking down. Yeah.
And instantly the tent disappears, right?
Mm-hmm. .
And then there was this moment of how do I retrace my step? Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
And it's just a few steps. Yeah.
And if you make the wrong steps and you're on the wrong side of, of a dune,
that's just high enough. Right. You start walking in the wrong direction. Sure.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
And I had this moment of panic just enough to raise
my, uh, raise me out of whatever gin induced coma I was in.
Yeah. Uhhuh .
And I retraced the three steps I had taken into darkness, ,
and there was the 10. Okay. Phew. And.
Yeah. Yes.
Glad to see you buddy. .
The brain kind of said, okay, you gotta, you gotta focus for a few seconds here.
Yeah. You know, die, die out here. Yeah.
Let's drop the blood alcohol content for a moment.
And that's in a culture where you really weren't supposed to be drinking. Right.
Right. Right. Well, and that might partly might be a good reason, you know,
there are.
Lots of good reasons why you shouldn't be drinking in Libya,
in Gaddafi ruled Libya at the time. Yes.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I guess we should mention that the, uh,
driving force behind the regulations, uh,
about not drinking are religious. It's.
In that case.
Yes. In, in the case you're talking about. Yes. And in that region, um, the,
the religion, the, the dominant religion of the area is one of no alcohol.
Yeah. Islam, alcohol is prohibited in Islam, more or less.
But let's also be just, um, not to oversimplify that, uh,
there are many countries in the region where you can consume alcohol. Mm-hmm.
And they are Islamic mm-hmm. . Sure. Um, they're just not as, um,
as, as originalist, let's say. Mm-hmm. Okay, sure.
As as some of the others. So Saudi Arabia, yeah. It's totally prohibited.
Mm-hmm. , um, Libya was prohibited in Egypt, uh,
but in many other cultures in the region is mainly Islamic. Still,
you can purchase alcohol. Right. It's not illegal. Right. Uh,
but it is frowned upon.
Yeah. Same, same in Jordan.
In Jordan as well. I lived in Jordan. Right? Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. .
So, you know, uh, and then you can go to the, uh, u a e,
which is you purchase em, you can definitely purchase alcohol Right.
In the international hotels. Right. Et cetera. Sure. So, country by country,
there are variations, but you are Right. At the time in Libya,
it was definitely not something that, uh, was acceptable.
Yeah, sure. Sure.
But in many other places, there, you know, the alco, alcohol consumption is a,
is a way of life. I mean, it's a tradition. Well.
And it can also be, yeah. I mean, certain there's values to it and, um, and,
and ceremony and so forth. In, in many other cultures like that,
anything pop to mind?
Oh, part of the, part of the pleasure, I think, is, you know,
is experiencing an alcoholic concoction that one has never known about before.
Oh, sure. Until Gogo, the first time I was in Brazil. Um,
so therefore, that presented me with the opportunity to have a capina Okay.
Of the Brazilian national drink. Okay. And, um, it's,
uh, so of course I had to have it. And of course, the Brazilians insisted on it.
Mm-hmm.
. Right, of.
Course. Because they want, they wanna see the, uh, the, the gringo from.
Well, they wanna make a fool of you. It's not a long trip. Right.
Not . So I'm an,
I'm an eager traveler at that point. Can you.
Can you re, can you re, first of all, can you recall anything about inmates?
Well, yes. I, so what happened was they took, my Brazilian host took me out,
and of course they took, they, um, they, they wind and dined me, and,
and they gave me my first capina. I was very young,
just a little tt, you know?
Yeah. Of course. . Yeah.
Oh, many, many years ago. and Ca capnia is made with, uh,
Casa, which is this clear fire water type liquor. Okay. In Brazil. It's made,
I think it's made from sugarcane. Okay. Ah, kind of like rum,
an equivalent of rum, but, but different, slightly different. Okay. Um,
and then you, they muddle it with different fruits and sugar in a,
in a glass. Okay. And lots of kasa, and you drink it,
and it's very easy going down. And if you have more than one, so will you.
Yeah. Go down.
Go down. Yeah. Right. Because it's all sugar and, and lots of great,
lots of pure alcohol.
Well, it's like, that sounds very much like rum. Rum will taste fine and,
and is easy, and then it'll hit you in the back of the head. Yeah.
Right. Or if you've had a mojito, you know? Mm-hmm. , uh,
a lot of Americans mojitos, uh, that's basically the same,
except it's made with rum, not the casa. Yeah. And it's made with mint,
not necessarily fruit. Mm-hmm. ,
but the capnia is fruit and casa. Mm. Okay. So I had,
I don't know how many mm-hmm. , capanini stand.
Oh, no. .
I don't.
Remember. Tell me, you woke up in a desert in Libya. .
I was, I was afraid. I didn't know where I was gonna wake up. Right. But, um,
they did get me home, and home for me that night was, uh,
we were staying in this lovely resort outside of, uh, Rio de Janeiro.
And it was, um, this kind of, uh,
I guess you could call it simplistically, you could call it a Hutt,
but it was beautifully decorated, beautifully, um,
designed room on a beach. Hmm. And there were many of these on this beach.
And, um, I walked into my, my room,
and this must have been at two or three o'clock in the morning,
and I lay down on the bed, and I looked up,
and in the roof of,
of my room was this huge reptile Hmm.
Hanging, hanging upside down from the roof.
And th this was real. It wasn't a,
it wasn't a ash induced hallucination.
Itt, a pink reptile. How do you know.
? Well, because, because after several conversations with the, with the,
with the reptile, we came to terms mm-hmm. mm-hmm. ,
since I could no longer.
I could see no influence of the alcohol whatsoever on this.
No. Once I, once I,
once I threw myself back down on the bed and noticed this creature up there,
I couldn't get myself up back up .
So I had to come to terms with the fact that it was gonna be there,
and I was gonna be on the bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So we had a conversation Good. And we talked about it.
Good. Okay. Right.
And basically, I said, you're gonna stay there and I'm gonna stay here. Mm-hmm.
, and we're not gonna get any closer to each other. Okay. Right.
And we're gonna pass the night like that.
Okay. And did the, did the, did the lizard agree? Well, the.
Next morning I did. I woke up and it was.
Gone. Yeah. Hmm. It was gone. Did you have all your toes.
And everything? Everything else was just fine. I mean, excellent.
There was no sign of it, been in the bed or anything like that. Hmm. No. I'm.
Guessing the letter wanted nothing to do with you. I just, like,
you wanted nothing to do with.
It. And we came to terms around that. Yeah. Good. It was a marvelous,
marvelously successful negotiation. . I wish, glad.
To hear. I wish.
Someone had recorded cross culture. Sure. Why am I admitting this now? ?
No idea. But we've got it.
Recorded. No, and it sounds very real. I'm sure it definitely.
Happened. Yeah. . Yeah. And, uh, did the, did the lizard have a name?
Hmm.
I'm sure it did.
But you didn't ask.
It's many years. Okay.
, it's.
Too many years.
No, I'm sure you introduced each other. Sure.
.
I have to, you know, I'm.
To your point, Tom, about, um,
sometimes the alcohol is used as a way of just kind of like enjoying the fact
that we're gonna watch somebody who's never experienced this alcohol,
suffer with it. Hmm. Right. And you're kind of,
um,
motivated to go along with that because you don't want to embarrass your
hosts or make them feel that they're being any less of a host. Hmm. Sure. Now,
in Asia, for example, uh, China, east Asia, Japan, Korea,
um, the Pacific Rim area,
your host is obligated to feed you and to keep the drink flowing. Mm.
For as long as your glass is empty or your plate is empty. Mm-hmm.
. So if your plate's empty, more food comes.
And if your glass is empty, then we refill it. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
. Okay. Um, and, and in fact, if you have a glass and,
and you want it refilled, uh,
all you have to do is just notice if you're,
if the person next to you is glass is like less than half full, if it is,
then you top it up and that obligates them to top
up your glass. Really? But never refill your own glass,
because that's selfish. Mm.
Right.
But if you top up your neighbor's glass,
that kind of obligates them to top up your glass. Right. So, and that's,
that they're in that simple little moment is a metaphor for much larger issues
about the culture. Hmm. Because if you're negotiating, let's say,
in China, one of the things you wanna realize is if you wanna get what,
what you want, then give them a little bit of what they want. Mm-hmm.
And that creates an obligation for them to then take care of what you want.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
As opposed to doing what westerners often do, fall into the compromised trap,
you know, I'll give up a little here, expecting you to give up a little there.
Mm-hmm. . No,
just give a little more and you'll get a little more Yeah, yeah.
Based on obligation. Right. So it, it really, you know,
it becomes a little metaphor.
The drink ceremony becomes a little metaphor for how you need to negotiate Sure.
In this culture. Yeah. Um, but anyway, so I'm at this,
I'm at this Chinese banquet in Beijing, and they're hosting me,
and they're keeping my glass full of this very powerful
liquor that, um, you really have to be careful with. Mm-hmm.
. And, and you'd have,
you really have to sip it slowly mm-hmm. . And,
but as soon as your glass is less than it should be, you know, they top it up.
Yeah. Because they really.
Want, so you're banging back shots of this.
And of course, everybody makes a toast every time they refill the glass.
Of course. Which means that you have to drink it now. Right.
Right.
Right. And the, everybody's got their own little secret strategy for this.
You know, take a sip, put it to your lips, but don't really sip it. Yeah. Yeah.
I've done that in other context. Yes.
Yep. Right. Or take a sip, and then when nobody's looking,
spit it out back in the glass. Right. Spit it out somewhere, whatever. But, um,
I was sipping more than I should have been. Mm-hmm.
.
And they were having a great time. 'cause they, they saw somebody who's, oh,
okay, we're gonna, we're gonna accelerate this process.
.
We're gonna fill that, that glass a lot faster. Yep. And, um, then they,
and the dishes now start coming out onto the Lazy Susan,
which is in the center of the Chinese ban table. Table.
And it's one dish after another.
And one of the dishes I remember that came out was this chicken dish
that was covered in ants. Hmm. You form micas,
like real big black ants. Hmm. Huh. Juicy looking.
Nice guys. Hmm. Ants, mouthfuls.
Mouthfuls. Mm-hmm. ants of the size that I've not seen,
clearly ants used strictly for culinary purposes.
Mm. Okay, sure.
And I've had just enough to drink now to go, oh, what the.
Hell? Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And this is of course, what they wanted to see. So.
You're on your first drink, is what you're saying? .
But it was very strongly. Yeah.
And I, I have to say that the chicken tasted like chicken,
and the ants tasted not like chicken.
Okay. Mm-hmm. , did they taste like ants? They.
Didn't taste like anything. .
. They crunched though, didn't they? But.
But, you know, I looked up at one point and, and I see all these, uh,
all the faces of my colleagues eagerly looking to see what is this westerner
gonna do? Mm-hmm. and I will eat anything. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
I I've seen that. I really, I'll I'll,
that very few things will put me off like that. Yep.
There's only one thing that ever put me off. And, uh,
it was the eye of the goat. Yes. In Kazakhstan. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
. Did we talk about.
That? We did. I think so. Yeah. We had, remember that's an earlier.
Episode of people. Right. But to the discussion of alcohol,
the reason I was able to eat it, even though I really wasn't sure I could,
the reason I was able to eat it was because I just washed it down with a gulp
of, of vodka. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I would think that'll happen. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So the ants on the goat's eye, you know,
the vodka helped or whatever this Sure. The liquor was in China.
But the ants, I have to assume, I mean, the in, I know that, uh,
when I was a young, young Ladd. A Ladd, yes, yes. Um, my sister, who was,
uh, eight years older than me was, um,
had prepared chocolate covered ants. Hmm. And,
um,
and I ate some at that time simply because I was the younger brother,
and I think I was under threat, uh, by my sister to, uh,
to have to try them. Um, and I remember that the ants were,
um, totally uninteresting, but the chocolate was good. Well.
They gave a crunch to it.
It gave definitely gave a crunch. Yeah. It was like,
it was almost like having a, um, what's.
That, that chocolate candy crunch? Was it Nestle's Crunch or.
Yeah, Nestle's Crunch. A little bit like that. Yep. Do they make.
It with.
Ants? They do. Probably. Nobody knows that. It's a, it's a proprietary, uh,
information out of ness. Yeah. But, um,
it used to be until I said that right there, , but, um, it is a ,
it's a, uh, yeah, it was.
So I do have experience of that in a totally different cultural aspect.
More of a, a US family scenario. Did.
Your sister cajole to eating it by telling you you could wash it down with
vodka?
Yeah. Uh, she I will say this in my household, that was a possibility.
Oh, . Okay. Uh, no, that did not happen. That did not happen.
Um, but it was, it was, uh, no, there was no cajoling. It was,
uh, basically eat this. Oh.
I'm your oldest assistant. Yeah. Just eat this.
Yeah. So, um, so I did, I think it, it maybe even,
it disappointed her that it was not like disgusting or anything. It was, uh,
it was perfectly fine. But that takes us away from, uh,
your experience with all these ants on there. And,
and so this was the preparation of it. This was a, um, that the,
these ants were placed on there and, and prepared cooked. Yes.
On the, on the, oh, they.
Weren't walking around. Well, .
That could have been kind of cool. Um, so yeah. Okay. All right. It was.
Now if I'm gonna, I, I want a.
Crunchy ants, I want cooked crunchy. Well, that's it.
Yeah. And that's gotta was. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it was. Yeah. Right.
Alright. Okay.
Nice, nice.
Yeah. And you found no real flavor out of them either.
No. Yeah. But, uh, that point was that because I was semi-conscious .
Right. , I can't, I don't.
Know. Did the chicken have flavor?
I remember that chicken tasted like chicken and the ants didn't taste like
chicken. Yeah.
Then I think we can go on Your taste buds we're at least semi-active.
Yeah. That, well, semi-active. That's Sure.
. Either one.
So Dean, was there, was there a time where you perhaps,
or you felt that you perhaps indulged a bit too much?
Always. Yeah. But.
Like, but like, especially, so Okay. We.
Narrowed down to a portion of the plan where.
Like others maybe you felt noticed or you maybe were felt paranoid about it,
or, you know, it, it, you know,
there was any real discernible impact that you felt like was the result of maybe.
I vibing a bit more than you had intended to originally? No. Okay.
No, I never, oh, well, well.
Look at you very responsible. No.
I, I don't think I ever.
He's telling us what he can remember.
. I know.
I, I'll, I'll ask Cheryl. Check it out with her.
Your wife's.
Wide move.
Yeah. Well, yeah. She may have another take. Yeah. Yeah. .
Okay. Okay.
You're contemp, you're contemplating. Yeah. I.
I mean, the wheel's turning.
I'm thinking about this and I, I don't think I embarrassed myself ever anywhere,
really?
Yeah. Or like what you.
Should, should I, should I, should I.
Tell a you into the line line, . .
Is there any times where you're like, I'm,
I'm coming to the line here and I won't have another drink?
Well, you know, from, let's go.
I have another one. I might go over the line. Let's.
Go from one culture where alcohol is prohibited mm-hmm. Right.
To another culture where it is, it is the water of life. Sure. I,
I remember in Russia.
Ah-huh Ah, ah, okay. Talking about vodka.
And, and all throughout eastern Europe, and, and I've been,
I've been doing work in Eastern Europe for over 30, 40 years,
so I remember it back in the post-Soviet days. Mm-hmm. And I,
and now it, it's changed. It, they're heavily influenced by the west. So it, it,
it's, it's, it's different in many places, but fundamentally, still,
still a very heavy drinking culture. Mm-hmm. Um, and I remember in, in Russia,
oh my God. I mean, they would take out the vodka and they were serious. And,
and I almost felt like it was their obligation to
host me because I was the guest. Yes. Mm-hmm. .
But there were times when I felt they were doing it offering me the vodka only
out of, out of a sense of duty and obligation. Mm. Really?
Because they didn't want, they wanted all of it for themselves.
. I see. Yeah. They didn't wanna waste it on you.
. And they were drinking a whole lot more than I was,
I became the excuse for them to just drink more.
More. Okay. Okay.
The fact that I was there. Yeah.
Well,
then you were doing your duty and you probably had to continue to drink to allow
them to continue to drink.
I didn't. I.
Didn't.
You did not. I didn't. Okay. No, I.
Was Did they continue to drink? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
This isn't then my theory is.
You know, and, and this, look, this was my experience and my,
in the experience of many of it, I know. I mean, this is not just a stereo Sure.
Stereotype that is serious, serious drinking and the,
and using almost any excuse mm-hmm. In order to do so. Mm-hmm. ,
I remember one time I was with a client in Budapest, and it,
this was just post-Soviet days. Hmm. And, um,
we had a meeting at nine o'clock in the morning, and, uh,
we walked into this meeting room and shot glasses were at every
seat. Yeah. Along with paper and pencil. Wow. And a water glass. Wow. Huh.
And when the meeting began, our Hungarian hosts came in,
there were no questions asked. Mm.
Poured a a I'm assuming the liquor was Unum.
Mm-hmm. I've had.
That, which is a traditional Hungarian Yes. We've had it.
Together. Yes, we have. Yes. You've introduced it to me.
Because I bought several bottles of Unum on.
.
And we, somebody's gotta this, and we still have one model.
Left Oh, okay. For the future . Yeah.
And so they poured this unum at nine o'clock in the morning. Mm.
Oh my goodness. And that's, yeah. Ooh, traditional.
Hungarian.
Hungarian. It was five o'clock someplace. So traditional.
Hungarian liquor. Um, and, uh,
and it was to start the negotiation Yeah. You know,
to make a certain sense of camaraderie and fair play. And,
and I didn't expect that. Yeah. But we did it. Now, to be fair, was only, and.
You were worried about sangria with our podcast, right.
could have brought that last bottle of Ucco. There.
You go. Yeah. But that was, well, that's true, Tom. I mean,
that was just a cl that was just a client. But the podcast is,
it's much more our fans and our audience,
and our loved ones.
That's true. That's very true. That's very, very true. Yeah. ,
I, I'm wondering, did you notice, or could you tell it did, did,
did the drinking continue or was it, that's what I'm wondering,
was it just the one, was it just the one shot? Oh.
At the Hungarian meeting? Yeah. Yeah. It was just that for that. Okay.
My experience.
Was just that one. Ah.
Okay. Was the, it, was it it almost celebratory.
Or it was ceremonial. Ceremonial.
Yeah. Ceremonial. This is how we start the meeting.
This is how we start the meeting. Doesn't matter what time it is. Right.
Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Okay. Hey, I, it's, um,
that's okay. Hey, maybe it gets things flowing faster. Exactly. You know? Yeah,
sure. Literally that light. Yeah. It does something. So, right.
Yeah. But I, I was impressed with how different,
as you go east, how it became more and more a fact,
an essential fact of life.
Yeah. Uhhuh . Okay.
A a again, as east if in Europe. Right.
So as we went into Russia. Yeah.
So let's say theoretically you had not.
Downed the, the shot of Unum in Hungary,
or you had not kept having vodka in Russia.
Would that have been seen as disrespectful?
Uh, yes. I think so. Okay. So you,
that first drink is ceremonial and you have to do it. Yeah.
And if you don't wanna drink it, you can just put it to your lips.
You don't have to swallow, but you do have to go through the motions. Gotcha.
Mm-hmm. . Okay. Uhhuh, . And there's usually,
you know, the different toasting that's involved country by country,
or oftentimes it takes a different form. So that's part of a ceremony,
and you need to observe that. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. , I,
I would say you don't have to go beyond that if you can't or don't want to.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Uh,
but it gets more and more difficult as you go further east until you're in
Russia where they just expect it. Yeah. Okay.
Expect continuously.
Yeah. Do you have, do you have thoughts on why, why that is from a,
you know, cultural historical perspective?
I don't know. I could be very glib about it and just say, you know,
there's a lot of disenchantment with life and the, uh,
and there's an element of the culture that makes for a very, um,
uh, inward looking personality, uhhuh, . Um,
it just seems to be more prevalent, and there's probably lots of answers,
and I don't want to give one that reinforces a stereotype if I'm incorrect.
Yeah, that makes sense. But clearly the behavior is there. Yeah.
There's also the, the, the weather, the, the cold Yeah.
The long winters taking that too, things like that.
But does that translate over to other countries that might have long winters,
even longer winters, the Scandinavian countries and so on?
Do they tend That's a good question,
to use the alcohol as something that helps them Right.
In those darker and colder months? Yes.
I would, I would say, uh, I,
there's probably research out there that indicates that alcohol use increases
based on climate. Hmm. I think so. I mean, you see it in Iceland, you see it in,
in, in Scandinavia. Okay. You see it in Scotland. Right. Okay, sure. Yeah.
Sure.
Uh, when I was in Reykjavik, um, it, you know,
learning about the culture, I, I was told that, um,
on Friday nights in Reykjavik, what,
what you what Icelanders do is they go out and drink.
And with the whole idea of trying to get as drunk as possible,
as fast as possible. Mm-hmm. And now that,
that's obviously not true for everybody, every individual. Right. But that,
that this is part of the culture in Kovic, um,
and no doubt it has to do with the fact that for a significant percentage of the
year, we're living in darkness and we're living in a, in a lot of cold. Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It just, it just seems like that would be the case. I mean,
even looking at it from a New England,
Northeastern United States viewpoint mm-hmm. Um, we, we don't have the,
the depth of the cold or the length of the season that many
of those places you just mentioned have, but, but we do have winter and we,
yeah. I live in.
Cold, so I can, there you go.
I can understand.
Well, that, that will explain. Are, are you,
are you preempting any kind of judgment around your behavior in the wintertime?
No, no. no, definitely not .
But I mean, it, it, it certainly too, you know, you mentioned this too, but the,
the ceremonial aspect of it, the, the, even in the,
in the one thing at nine o'clock in the morning, you know,
the ceremonial aspect of it, but also those types of things that the comradery,
the, uh, and especially in,
in anywhere where you do get darker days in the winter, where, where we are,
yours is a little bit more here in Connecticut, there's, we're in a,
in a region where the, the earliest we get is four 30 in the afternoon,
uh, right at the, at the in, when winter begins, you get four 30 afternoon,
the sun's gone, and you get that long night,
then it follows and so on. And then in those times, the, the ceremonies and the,
and the going out and being with people and, and enjoying those kinds of things,
I think it leads to that. I mean,
whether it's good for you or not is another discussion, but it, it,
it leads to that, and Dean, you're.
Talking about countries and cultures where sometimes there's no sunlight in a
day or very, very.
Very little. Right, right. Right.
That, that.
Extreme.
Situation. Yeah. Sun, the sun's out, you know,
the dead of winter and light health for about two hours. That's it. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Alcohol might, might assist in such times.
Yeah. I think the car, I think the, the test here is,
is looking for the corollary, right? Mm-hmm.
So it is it true therefore that there is less alcohol consumption in the
hotter cultures. Right. In hotter climates. Yeah.
Right.
And I don't know the research on this, so I, I, I hesitate,
I don't know intuitively a knee-jerk response would be Yeah, probably.
But I might be wrong. I don't, you.
Know, and it would have to be the culture that is from that area,
not people moving into there, bringing culture from another area into it. Um,
I, I'm just thinking in, in, within a country like the United States,
which is large,
and you get people moving from the colder weather to the warmer weather,
people go to Florida or the Arizona or Southern California,
wherever they go to live in, in warmer climate,
they're bringing the culture from the colder climate into the warmer climate.
And that's a kind of that cross-cultural type of thing that that can happen.
But we are talking about what did the air that area develop did it, does,
does it develop because they have longer days throughout the year, um,
and they have warmer weather. Does it,
does it preclude any kind of, um,
tendency toward that behavior?
I dunno. Yeah. I don't know.
It's an influencer. I don't know if it's the main influencer. Right.
And I don't know if it's the major determinant. Sure. Right. That's,
I think that's the thing. And, and.
Again,
a situation where it's so extreme where there's such little light in a day and
it's so, so Well.
Then you can attribute, uh, it, it being a major, to some.
Degree, it's gonna have impact. Sure. An effect. Yeah. Sure.
But then again, uh, you know,
I remember sharing a cigar and several glasses of tequila.
I was gonna bring this story up. Yeah. Actually, with.
With you, sir.
I think, uh, in Mexico,
I think someone said something about not being embarrassed or something like
that. I didn't wanna bring up this. Well, I.
Could never, never. Here we're wait minute.
I could never be, we, I'm, I'm amazed you can remember that story at all.
Actually.
I could never be embarrassed around you. That's.
Okay. Fair.
Enough. I mean, you know, but now if I had behaved that way with a client,
which I never would've done Right.
Right. Unless they invited you to . Unless it was the culture.
Unless it was the culture.
Yeah. And what are we, what are we specifically talking about ,
we're talking about two tequilas and two Cuban cigars,
and my inability to get out of the chair after that.
And we,
and ba and walking to a restaurant and trying not to let you drown in the pool
on the way to fall in. Yeah. Yes. Um, other than that,
you were perfectly fine. My favorite part of that entire evening, however,
was when after finishing the second tequila, um,
and the first cigar, um.
And they were Cuban cigars.
They were wonderful Cuban cigars, and we were in Mexico, and, um,
they were easy to come by. So the, um, but your,
your comment was,
you realize we were in happy hour and it was a twofer time.
So you announced, let's get two more ,
meaning not the cigars, but the, uh, tegu. Uh.
And that was.
Veto.
Was veto. And, and, and it was vetoed. Thank you. My friend.
took care of me because I had, had I not had, you both.
Would've drowned in the pool. .
Not had you there in that moment.
Only Lord knows what might have been.
You'd still be there in that lobby, I think.
Stuck in the chair. Yeah, that's.
Right. . Yes. Um, it actually was quite a fun evening,
but .
Well, we can reminisce about it now. Yeah. Yes, we can.
And think about the cultural implications.
Yeah, absolutely. That's why I'm.
Overindulging like that. Yes. Well, and that was overindulging, and.
I'm sure there was very many negative complications other than later than the
next day. Yes. You were having fun and no one got hurt.
le le let me set the record straight. Okay.
All right. Here.
We go. I very rarely overindulge.
Right, right. Oh, well, sure. Yes, that's true. That is very true. Yes. The, um,
yes. That was a very fun, um,
exceptional evening to side. Yeah. ,
are we still recording? Oh.
We are still.
Recording. Oh. Um, .
. But here's the thing.
Here, it's the thing here. It's, hold on. Here's the thing.
The moral of the story is, ah, that there's always a cultural element.
There's always an individual element also. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Some people do not want to do this, cannot do it. Very true. Medically don't.
Not healthy for them. Right.
Right. Religiously choose not to. Yeah. Whatever the reason mm-hmm.
. Um, and, and so, you know, there,
there are strategies and ways to approach this,
but you have to always have the knowledge that this is,
this is still an integral part of,
of the human experience in many different cultures,
and all cultures celebrate it in many different ways. Mm-hmm. .
Yes. And use it, use alcohol Absolutely. Or other drugs. Yeah. Um,
as a way of,
of creating a certain camaraderie or a certain environment in which they,
they hope to achieve certain things. Mm-hmm. .
Yes. Yeah. And the reason that we can,
we know this is because.
Oops.
Your.
Culture's showing smell. Yeah.
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