1 00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:02,080 I'm sorry, I have to apologize to, to. 2 00:00:02,390 --> 00:00:03,840 Apology accepted . Okay. 3 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,400 Thank that. We don't have any sangria because earlier today Yeah. 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,880 I had made the statement jokingly, 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,480 jokingly that I would have sangria at the ready mm-hmm. For a recording session. 6 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:19,120 Oh, today, joking. That's. 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,280 The first I'm hearing of this. 8 00:00:20,580 --> 00:00:25,320 And, uh, and of course, I, I wasn't serious. I, this was a flat out, um. 9 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:30,520 How were we, how were we supposed to, to tell Yeah. That you weren't serious. 10 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,360 Because you know me. Well, you know me. That's fair enough. 11 00:00:33,460 --> 00:00:35,920 That's fair. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. Yeah. 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:36,920 I shouldn't have gotten hopes up. 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,240 , and I don't know, I would say, well, it just seemed okay. I don't, 14 00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:44,200 why didn't I get the sangria ready? 15 00:00:44,310 --> 00:00:45,480 Well, not that's what we're asking. 16 00:00:45,780 --> 00:00:49,680 Mm-hmm. . Because it is after five somewhere. Right? 17 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:51,073 Absolutely. So, yeah. 18 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:52,960 And I didn't, because I thought, well, maybe, 19 00:00:53,290 --> 00:00:56,720 maybe it wouldn't enhance the podcast if we did that. 20 00:00:57,170 --> 00:00:58,920 Maybe it would have I, you know. 21 00:00:58,990 --> 00:01:03,680 Yeah. Well, we won't know because someone didn't bring the sangria, right? Oh, 22 00:01:04,980 --> 00:01:09,760 uh, ooh, that hurts. Shall we leave it there? Yeah. 23 00:01:10,190 --> 00:01:14,040 Well, po I had something to numb the pain. . 24 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,120 , because, well, we can talk about it. 25 00:01:18,300 --> 00:01:22,400 We are talking about obviously, you know, um, talking about the sangria, and we. 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:23,233 Are, and Yes. 27 00:01:23,340 --> 00:01:24,600 And Sangria is a. 28 00:01:24,620 --> 00:01:25,480 Is a, and disappointment. 29 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:28,840 a drink that comes from another culture. Ah. 30 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,520 A culture, another culture depending on what our what your, 31 00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:33,200 what your culture is. Yes. Well. 32 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,560 Uh, uh, yes. It is not indigenous to the us It was, 33 00:01:37,630 --> 00:01:41,880 it's an import from Spain. Okay. Right. Where we mix, um, 34 00:01:42,670 --> 00:01:46,760 basically red wine and maybe a little bubbly and some fruit. Hmm. 35 00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:50,960 Variation on blood, isn't it? Sangria? I, I, I believe so. Oh, yes. 36 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,440 Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. 37 00:01:52,670 --> 00:01:53,490 Yeah. 38 00:01:53,490 --> 00:01:58,120 Right. And so it's an appropriate thing for us to talk about, because this is, 39 00:01:59,150 --> 00:02:01,360 oops, your coach is showing. 40 00:02:08,660 --> 00:02:09,600 Hey, Tom Peterson. 41 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:10,760 Hey, Dean Foster. 42 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:12,533 Hey, Torin. 43 00:02:12,810 --> 00:02:16,680 Hello. . Torin has trouble when we introduce him. 44 00:02:17,700 --> 00:02:18,533 I'm not feeling really. 45 00:02:18,980 --> 00:02:22,040 I'm, I'm kind of feeling bad about the sangria guys, I have to admit this. 46 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:24,600 Are you? I'll make it up to you. I really. 47 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,040 You'll, okay. Okay. How . 48 00:02:27,810 --> 00:02:31,040 He'll be sangria in your immediate future. Oh. 49 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,560 Wow. Okay. In the immediate future. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Nice. 50 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,600 It's still a little broad, but, oh, here comes the waitress now, uh, . 51 00:02:37,670 --> 00:02:41,240 Wonderful. That was very immediate. . 52 00:02:42,460 --> 00:02:46,000 The, uh, so, so why, so Dean, you seem to think that, that it would be a, 53 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,160 a maybe disrespectful or, or a hindrance perhaps, 54 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:54,120 to the podcast or maybe even disrespectful. Is that, is that true? Well. 55 00:02:54,380 --> 00:02:57,120 No, I'm not saying it would have, I'm just saying it might, it could. 56 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:57,953 Have been. 57 00:02:58,910 --> 00:03:01,760 When we, when we, you know, after imbibing a little bit, 58 00:03:01,810 --> 00:03:04,960 Uhhuh and getting a little bit, uh, jolly with it. Yeah. 59 00:03:05,220 --> 00:03:09,040 It could be terrific. I mean, yeah. You know, also, we don't have to, 60 00:03:09,410 --> 00:03:12,240 we'll never know. We don't have to drink like, copious amounts. 61 00:03:12,340 --> 00:03:13,560 That's the whole idea of, 62 00:03:13,740 --> 00:03:18,560 of consuming alcohol is to relax and to enjoy each other's 63 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:19,100 company. 64 00:03:19,100 --> 00:03:22,360 Is it the flavor and the taste and different cultures different takes on this. 65 00:03:22,670 --> 00:03:26,320 Okay. You know, and I've been drunk in every culture that I've gone to . 66 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,760 Oh, oh, right. So at some point, well, no, 67 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,560 there are some cultures you can't and the, the Yeah. And therefore you, 68 00:03:32,580 --> 00:03:37,320 you prohibited. Right. So Ations on that. Yeah. Right. Um, it's, 69 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,360 it's hard to find, um, alcohol in every culture. 70 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,000 'cause some cultures prohibited. Yeah. But, but beyond that, and, and we, and, 71 00:03:46,020 --> 00:03:49,920 and there are cultures where we've made the real effort to, to find the alcohol. 72 00:03:50,060 --> 00:03:52,400 Um, and I guess with enough effort, 73 00:03:52,580 --> 00:03:57,440 you generally can , but one must be very careful. . Yeah, 74 00:03:57,470 --> 00:04:00,440 yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember one time I was in Libya, 75 00:04:01,660 --> 00:04:06,280 and this is before a lot of the troubles. Mm-hmm. Um, but not, 76 00:04:06,620 --> 00:04:08,800 not that far back. Okay. This was still under this, 77 00:04:08,830 --> 00:04:12,680 this was during Gaddafi Gaddafi Uhhuh. Yeah. And, um, 78 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:18,280 my host, uh, had invited me to, to Libya, 79 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:22,600 and we went out onto the dunes, uh, 80 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:25,280 on a safari into the Sahara. Hmm. 81 00:04:25,410 --> 00:04:30,400 Which we were fortunate enough to do in a protected kind of way. So it wasn't, 82 00:04:30,500 --> 00:04:34,600 it wasn't as dangerous as it might have been given the conditions in Libya at 83 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,400 the time mm-hmm. . And, um, this guy was, um, 84 00:04:39,860 --> 00:04:44,080 he was able to procure some clear looking 85 00:04:44,430 --> 00:04:49,120 alcohol, um, like gin. You know, you can't really, you look at a bottle of gin, 86 00:04:49,380 --> 00:04:52,000 it could be water, could be water, right? Mm-hmm. vodka, right? 87 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,680 Yeah. Right. So, um, we poured the, what was gin, 88 00:04:57,140 --> 00:05:00,520 we poured it into, um, these little thermos. 89 00:05:01,340 --> 00:05:02,920 And for all intents and purposes, 90 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,520 if anybody asked and anybody saw us out on the dunes and the vastness of Azar 91 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,160 Hmm. That we were just drinking water, 92 00:05:11,210 --> 00:05:13,640 which is pretty important out in the desert. Yeah. Yeah. 93 00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:15,240 And I have to say though, you know, 94 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,600 being out there and in the absolute silence of 95 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,430 a Saharan sunset, and the sun is going down and the desert is, 96 00:05:24,530 --> 00:05:26,470 is cooling off dramatically, 97 00:05:27,170 --> 00:05:30,910 second by second from blazing 95 degrees to 98 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,510 55 degrees in a matter of minutes. Yeah, sure. 99 00:05:35,930 --> 00:05:37,510 The alcohol was very helpful, 100 00:05:38,350 --> 00:05:43,110 to in terms of staying warm. Okay. In terms of, um, 101 00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:44,750 creating a, 102 00:05:44,750 --> 00:05:49,710 a great sense of camaraderie and in enhancing the epiphany 103 00:05:49,710 --> 00:05:51,990 of the moment of the sunset, 104 00:05:54,970 --> 00:05:57,640 you know, disappearing behind these massive dunes. 105 00:05:57,670 --> 00:05:58,503 Yeah. 106 00:05:58,940 --> 00:06:03,320 It was a marvelous, marvelous experience. Wow. Wow. That sounds wonderful. 107 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,880 It does. Enhanced, enhanced by the gin. Absolutely. 108 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,880 Right. Wow. Which was, in other words, you were so drunk, 109 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,120 you don't know what was happening. . 110 00:06:09,220 --> 00:06:10,880 That's all I can recall after that. 111 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,040 Uhhuh uhhuh . I'm, 112 00:06:13,060 --> 00:06:17,200 I'm also thinking there could be a downside to consuming too much alcohol out in 113 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,320 the middle of a, of a desert wasteland, where there's, there's no one around. 114 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:23,680 And it could be a little dangerous. Absolutely. 115 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,200 Absolutely. Yes. You, you. 116 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:26,920 Definitely gotta moderate there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 117 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:30,360 One, one of the things being out there that I realize is that you can't, 118 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,080 is it is very seriously dangerous because you can instantly get lost. 119 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,320 I would imagine. Unless you know those things inside out, 120 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:39,160 you are very vulnerable. 121 00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:43,080 Unless you are, if you're a visitor, I mean, you know, Berber and, 122 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:44,720 and native people and, 123 00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:48,440 and Libyans that we were with knew the desert or knew this part of it, 124 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:51,280 and they took care. They took good care of us, 125 00:06:51,340 --> 00:06:55,600 and they knew that as long as we did what they, what they told us to do, 126 00:06:55,620 --> 00:06:56,480 we were safe. Right? 127 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:57,520 Mm-hmm. , but don't deviate. 128 00:06:57,740 --> 00:07:02,520 But do not deviate. Yeah. And at night, so we set up these tents, right. 129 00:07:02,780 --> 00:07:06,480 And we were all assigned a tent, and it gets very dark. 130 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,440 There are no electric lights out there, right? No, there's no, no, no. 131 00:07:10,820 --> 00:07:13,480 Except the light of the moon and the stars, which are magnificent, 132 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,520 because I bet they are. There's, there's no light pollution. Many. 133 00:07:16,930 --> 00:07:17,510 Right? See. 134 00:07:17,510 --> 00:07:18,343 Yeah. 135 00:07:18,620 --> 00:07:22,800 And we were given strict instructions that in the middle of the night when we 136 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,360 needed to relieve ourselves, um, 137 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:30,000 you had to walk as long as you kept this, 138 00:07:30,470 --> 00:07:32,480 kept your tent in, in view, 139 00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:36,800 that was as far as you could walk away from it. Mm-hmm. , um, 140 00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:38,040 to find your spot. 141 00:07:38,430 --> 00:07:39,263 Yeah. 142 00:07:39,540 --> 00:07:44,490 And, um, and of course, when I did that, 143 00:07:44,490 --> 00:07:45,323 that night, 144 00:07:47,450 --> 00:07:51,450 I was tempted to see how far away from the tent I could go. 145 00:07:51,550 --> 00:07:56,010 Oh, no, boy, here we go. Without, was this, was, did the gin post this? Yeah. 146 00:07:56,010 --> 00:07:57,450 How much gin had been taken at this? 147 00:07:57,590 --> 00:08:00,810 It probably did. Probably . Probably did Uhhuh. 148 00:08:01,910 --> 00:08:06,810 So I kind of, you know, tested myself. Ah, how, and if, 149 00:08:07,030 --> 00:08:10,100 and, and this, now the sand is not even, you know, 150 00:08:10,100 --> 00:08:12,660 it dips and it goes up and it goes down. Sucks. 151 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:13,940 You way, and you never get out. 152 00:08:14,830 --> 00:08:17,420 There were times when I said, oh, this is not hard. I can, 153 00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:20,140 I can walk pretty far because I'm going higher, 154 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,540 so I can always see the tent in the moonlight mm-hmm. . 155 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,980 And then suddenly you're on the other side of whatever little dune you've been 156 00:08:25,980 --> 00:08:28,420 walking on. Yeah. And now you're walking down. Yeah. 157 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,860 And instantly the tent disappears, right? 158 00:08:30,860 --> 00:08:31,693 Mm-hmm. . 159 00:08:31,940 --> 00:08:36,540 And then there was this moment of how do I retrace my step? Right? 160 00:08:36,650 --> 00:08:37,200 Yeah. Yeah. 161 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,260 And it's just a few steps. Yeah. 162 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,460 And if you make the wrong steps and you're on the wrong side of, of a dune, 163 00:08:42,460 --> 00:08:46,380 that's just high enough. Right. You start walking in the wrong direction. Sure. 164 00:08:46,410 --> 00:08:47,540 Yeah. Yeah. 165 00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:47,960 Yeah. 166 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,820 And I had this moment of panic just enough to raise 167 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,960 my, uh, raise me out of whatever gin induced coma I was in. 168 00:08:57,990 --> 00:08:58,823 Yeah. Uhhuh . 169 00:08:59,260 --> 00:09:03,320 And I retraced the three steps I had taken into darkness, , 170 00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:05,760 and there was the 10. Okay. Phew. And. 171 00:09:06,830 --> 00:09:07,663 Yeah. Yes. 172 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:09,080 Glad to see you buddy. . 173 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:12,880 The brain kind of said, okay, you gotta, you gotta focus for a few seconds here. 174 00:09:13,310 --> 00:09:15,000 Yeah. You know, die, die out here. Yeah. 175 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,200 Let's drop the blood alcohol content for a moment. 176 00:09:17,540 --> 00:09:21,040 And that's in a culture where you really weren't supposed to be drinking. Right. 177 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,440 Right. Right. Well, and that might partly might be a good reason, you know, 178 00:09:25,770 --> 00:09:26,200 there are. 179 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,680 Lots of good reasons why you shouldn't be drinking in Libya, 180 00:09:29,980 --> 00:09:32,320 in Gaddafi ruled Libya at the time. Yes. 181 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,680 Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I guess we should mention that the, uh, 182 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:40,680 driving force behind the regulations, uh, 183 00:09:40,850 --> 00:09:44,360 about not drinking are religious. It's. 184 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:45,060 In that case. 185 00:09:45,060 --> 00:09:49,160 Yes. In, in the case you're talking about. Yes. And in that region, um, the, 186 00:09:49,220 --> 00:09:54,000 the religion, the, the dominant religion of the area is one of no alcohol. 187 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,760 Yeah. Islam, alcohol is prohibited in Islam, more or less. 188 00:09:57,820 --> 00:10:02,720 But let's also be just, um, not to oversimplify that, uh, 189 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,880 there are many countries in the region where you can consume alcohol. Mm-hmm. 190 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,880 And they are Islamic mm-hmm. . Sure. Um, they're just not as, um, 191 00:10:11,380 --> 00:10:14,600 as, as originalist, let's say. Mm-hmm. Okay, sure. 192 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,280 As as some of the others. So Saudi Arabia, yeah. It's totally prohibited. 193 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,000 Mm-hmm. , um, Libya was prohibited in Egypt, uh, 194 00:10:22,260 --> 00:10:26,560 but in many other cultures in the region is mainly Islamic. Still, 195 00:10:26,780 --> 00:10:29,840 you can purchase alcohol. Right. It's not illegal. Right. Uh, 196 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:30,880 but it is frowned upon. 197 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,080 Yeah. Same, same in Jordan. 198 00:10:32,380 --> 00:10:34,680 In Jordan as well. I lived in Jordan. Right? Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. . 199 00:10:34,820 --> 00:10:37,960 So, you know, uh, and then you can go to the, uh, u a e, 200 00:10:38,010 --> 00:10:42,400 which is you purchase em, you can definitely purchase alcohol Right. 201 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,200 In the international hotels. Right. Et cetera. Sure. So, country by country, 202 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,880 there are variations, but you are Right. At the time in Libya, 203 00:10:49,940 --> 00:10:54,160 it was definitely not something that, uh, was acceptable. 204 00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:55,600 Yeah, sure. Sure. 205 00:10:56,460 --> 00:11:00,440 But in many other places, there, you know, the alco, alcohol consumption is a, 206 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,600 is a way of life. I mean, it's a tradition. Well. 207 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,600 And it can also be, yeah. I mean, certain there's values to it and, um, and, 208 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:12,720 and ceremony and so forth. In, in many other cultures like that, 209 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:14,113 anything pop to mind? 210 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:17,520 Oh, part of the, part of the pleasure, I think, is, you know, 211 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:22,680 is experiencing an alcoholic concoction that one has never known about before. 212 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:27,160 Oh, sure. Until Gogo, the first time I was in Brazil. Um, 213 00:11:27,380 --> 00:11:31,520 so therefore, that presented me with the opportunity to have a capina Okay. 214 00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:36,560 Of the Brazilian national drink. Okay. And, um, it's, 215 00:11:36,580 --> 00:11:41,000 uh, so of course I had to have it. And of course, the Brazilians insisted on it. 216 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:41,600 Mm-hmm. 217 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:42,280 . Right, of. 218 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,520 Course. Because they want, they wanna see the, uh, the, the gringo from. 219 00:11:45,710 --> 00:11:49,840 Well, they wanna make a fool of you. It's not a long trip. Right. 220 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:54,800 Not . So I'm an, 221 00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:56,720 I'm an eager traveler at that point. Can you. 222 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,720 Can you re, can you re, first of all, can you recall anything about inmates? 223 00:11:59,790 --> 00:12:04,120 Well, yes. I, so what happened was they took, my Brazilian host took me out, 224 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:07,600 and of course they took, they, um, they, they wind and dined me, and, 225 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,920 and they gave me my first capina. I was very young, 226 00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:13,280 just a little tt, you know? 227 00:12:13,310 --> 00:12:14,640 Yeah. Of course. . Yeah. 228 00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:19,000 Oh, many, many years ago. and Ca capnia is made with, uh, 229 00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:24,560 Casa, which is this clear fire water type liquor. Okay. In Brazil. It's made, 230 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,760 I think it's made from sugarcane. Okay. Ah, kind of like rum, 231 00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:31,880 an equivalent of rum, but, but different, slightly different. Okay. Um, 232 00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:36,640 and then you, they muddle it with different fruits and sugar in a, 233 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,960 in a glass. Okay. And lots of kasa, and you drink it, 234 00:12:41,860 --> 00:12:46,640 and it's very easy going down. And if you have more than one, so will you. 235 00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:48,600 Yeah. Go down. 236 00:12:48,940 --> 00:12:53,400 Go down. Yeah. Right. Because it's all sugar and, and lots of great, 237 00:12:53,470 --> 00:12:54,400 lots of pure alcohol. 238 00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:59,520 Well, it's like, that sounds very much like rum. Rum will taste fine and, 239 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,000 and is easy, and then it'll hit you in the back of the head. Yeah. 240 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,600 Right. Or if you've had a mojito, you know? Mm-hmm. , uh, 241 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,280 a lot of Americans mojitos, uh, that's basically the same, 242 00:13:10,420 --> 00:13:14,280 except it's made with rum, not the casa. Yeah. And it's made with mint, 243 00:13:14,540 --> 00:13:16,640 not necessarily fruit. Mm-hmm. , 244 00:13:17,060 --> 00:13:21,040 but the capnia is fruit and casa. Mm. Okay. So I had, 245 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,880 I don't know how many mm-hmm. , capanini stand. 246 00:13:23,940 --> 00:13:24,773 Oh, no. . 247 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:25,640 I don't. 248 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,360 Remember. Tell me, you woke up in a desert in Libya. . 249 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,800 I was, I was afraid. I didn't know where I was gonna wake up. Right. But, um, 250 00:13:34,830 --> 00:13:38,640 they did get me home, and home for me that night was, uh, 251 00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:42,880 we were staying in this lovely resort outside of, uh, Rio de Janeiro. 252 00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:47,800 And it was, um, this kind of, uh, 253 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,550 I guess you could call it simplistically, you could call it a Hutt, 254 00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:55,550 but it was beautifully decorated, beautifully, um, 255 00:13:56,790 --> 00:14:01,710 designed room on a beach. Hmm. And there were many of these on this beach. 256 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:07,390 And, um, I walked into my, my room, 257 00:14:07,970 --> 00:14:11,270 and this must have been at two or three o'clock in the morning, 258 00:14:12,130 --> 00:14:15,630 and I lay down on the bed, and I looked up, 259 00:14:16,650 --> 00:14:18,310 and in the roof of, 260 00:14:18,370 --> 00:14:22,790 of my room was this huge reptile Hmm. 261 00:14:23,020 --> 00:14:26,710 Hanging, hanging upside down from the roof. 262 00:14:26,850 --> 00:14:29,230 And th this was real. It wasn't a, 263 00:14:29,410 --> 00:14:32,150 it wasn't a ash induced hallucination. 264 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:33,750 Itt, a pink reptile. How do you know. 265 00:14:34,190 --> 00:14:37,790 ? Well, because, because after several conversations with the, with the, 266 00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:41,110 with the reptile, we came to terms mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , 267 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,430 since I could no longer. 268 00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:45,310 I could see no influence of the alcohol whatsoever on this. 269 00:14:45,370 --> 00:14:46,590 No. Once I, once I, 270 00:14:46,660 --> 00:14:50,430 once I threw myself back down on the bed and noticed this creature up there, 271 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,720 I couldn't get myself up back up . 272 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:58,200 So I had to come to terms with the fact that it was gonna be there, 273 00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:00,720 and I was gonna be on the bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 274 00:15:00,780 --> 00:15:03,320 So we had a conversation Good. And we talked about it. 275 00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:04,400 Good. Okay. Right. 276 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:09,000 And basically, I said, you're gonna stay there and I'm gonna stay here. Mm-hmm. 277 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,080 , and we're not gonna get any closer to each other. Okay. Right. 278 00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:13,600 And we're gonna pass the night like that. 279 00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:16,680 Okay. And did the, did the, did the lizard agree? Well, the. 280 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,760 Next morning I did. I woke up and it was. 281 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,210 Gone. Yeah. Hmm. It was gone. Did you have all your toes. 282 00:15:22,390 --> 00:15:25,210 And everything? Everything else was just fine. I mean, excellent. 283 00:15:25,210 --> 00:15:29,930 There was no sign of it, been in the bed or anything like that. Hmm. No. I'm. 284 00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:32,690 Guessing the letter wanted nothing to do with you. I just, like, 285 00:15:32,690 --> 00:15:33,690 you wanted nothing to do with. 286 00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:37,930 It. And we came to terms around that. Yeah. Good. It was a marvelous, 287 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,410 marvelously successful negotiation. . I wish, glad. 288 00:15:42,410 --> 00:15:43,090 To hear. I wish. 289 00:15:43,090 --> 00:15:46,930 Someone had recorded cross culture. Sure. Why am I admitting this now? ? 290 00:15:47,470 --> 00:15:48,690 No idea. But we've got it. 291 00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:51,450 Recorded. No, and it sounds very real. I'm sure it definitely. 292 00:15:51,690 --> 00:15:56,050 Happened. Yeah. . Yeah. And, uh, did the, did the lizard have a name? 293 00:15:56,650 --> 00:15:56,990 Hmm. 294 00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:57,823 I'm sure it did. 295 00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:58,640 But you didn't ask. 296 00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:59,970 It's many years. Okay. 297 00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:00,710 , it's. 298 00:16:00,710 --> 00:16:01,543 Too many years. 299 00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:04,210 No, I'm sure you introduced each other. Sure. 300 00:16:10,290 --> 00:16:11,010 . 301 00:16:11,010 --> 00:16:11,890 I have to, you know, I'm. 302 00:16:12,270 --> 00:16:13,890 To your point, Tom, about, um, 303 00:16:13,890 --> 00:16:18,210 sometimes the alcohol is used as a way of just kind of like enjoying the fact 304 00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:22,130 that we're gonna watch somebody who's never experienced this alcohol, 305 00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:27,370 suffer with it. Hmm. Right. And you're kind of, 306 00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:28,560 um, 307 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,450 motivated to go along with that because you don't want to embarrass your 308 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:38,290 hosts or make them feel that they're being any less of a host. Hmm. Sure. Now, 309 00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:43,290 in Asia, for example, uh, China, east Asia, Japan, Korea, 310 00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:46,490 um, the Pacific Rim area, 311 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,570 your host is obligated to feed you and to keep the drink flowing. Mm. 312 00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:56,370 For as long as your glass is empty or your plate is empty. Mm-hmm. 313 00:16:56,410 --> 00:16:58,250 . So if your plate's empty, more food comes. 314 00:16:59,350 --> 00:17:02,930 And if your glass is empty, then we refill it. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. 315 00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:06,210 . Okay. Um, and, and in fact, if you have a glass and, 316 00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:08,330 and you want it refilled, uh, 317 00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:11,930 all you have to do is just notice if you're, 318 00:17:12,270 --> 00:17:16,770 if the person next to you is glass is like less than half full, if it is, 319 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,970 then you top it up and that obligates them to top 320 00:17:21,970 --> 00:17:25,290 up your glass. Really? But never refill your own glass, 321 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,330 because that's selfish. Mm. 322 00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:29,350 Right. 323 00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:31,490 But if you top up your neighbor's glass, 324 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,690 that kind of obligates them to top up your glass. Right. So, and that's, 325 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,770 that they're in that simple little moment is a metaphor for much larger issues 326 00:17:40,770 --> 00:17:45,730 about the culture. Hmm. Because if you're negotiating, let's say, 327 00:17:45,730 --> 00:17:48,970 in China, one of the things you wanna realize is if you wanna get what, 328 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:53,880 what you want, then give them a little bit of what they want. Mm-hmm. 329 00:17:54,140 --> 00:17:58,360 And that creates an obligation for them to then take care of what you want. 330 00:17:58,360 --> 00:17:59,193 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 331 00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:04,920 As opposed to doing what westerners often do, fall into the compromised trap, 332 00:18:05,020 --> 00:18:08,480 you know, I'll give up a little here, expecting you to give up a little there. 333 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:09,520 Mm-hmm. . No, 334 00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:13,960 just give a little more and you'll get a little more Yeah, yeah. 335 00:18:14,170 --> 00:18:16,880 Based on obligation. Right. So it, it really, you know, 336 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,000 it becomes a little metaphor. 337 00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:22,480 The drink ceremony becomes a little metaphor for how you need to negotiate Sure. 338 00:18:22,580 --> 00:18:26,440 In this culture. Yeah. Um, but anyway, so I'm at this, 339 00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:31,240 I'm at this Chinese banquet in Beijing, and they're hosting me, 340 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:36,200 and they're keeping my glass full of this very powerful 341 00:18:37,460 --> 00:18:41,680 liquor that, um, you really have to be careful with. Mm-hmm. 342 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,120 . And, and you'd have, 343 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,560 you really have to sip it slowly mm-hmm. . And, 344 00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:51,200 but as soon as your glass is less than it should be, you know, they top it up. 345 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:51,880 Yeah. Because they really. 346 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,520 Want, so you're banging back shots of this. 347 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:56,720 And of course, everybody makes a toast every time they refill the glass. 348 00:18:56,740 --> 00:19:00,320 Of course. Which means that you have to drink it now. Right. 349 00:19:00,370 --> 00:19:00,720 Right. 350 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,080 Right. And the, everybody's got their own little secret strategy for this. 351 00:19:04,260 --> 00:19:07,800 You know, take a sip, put it to your lips, but don't really sip it. Yeah. Yeah. 352 00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:09,680 I've done that in other context. Yes. 353 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,570 Yep. Right. Or take a sip, and then when nobody's looking, 354 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,330 spit it out back in the glass. Right. Spit it out somewhere, whatever. But, um, 355 00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:19,930 I was sipping more than I should have been. Mm-hmm. 356 00:19:19,970 --> 00:19:20,803 . 357 00:19:21,790 --> 00:19:26,210 And they were having a great time. 'cause they, they saw somebody who's, oh, 358 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,610 okay, we're gonna, we're gonna accelerate this process. 359 00:19:29,650 --> 00:19:29,940 . 360 00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:34,650 We're gonna fill that, that glass a lot faster. Yep. And, um, then they, 361 00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:37,730 and the dishes now start coming out onto the Lazy Susan, 362 00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:40,130 which is in the center of the Chinese ban table. Table. 363 00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:43,330 And it's one dish after another. 364 00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:48,690 And one of the dishes I remember that came out was this chicken dish 365 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,730 that was covered in ants. Hmm. You form micas, 366 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,210 like real big black ants. Hmm. Huh. Juicy looking. 367 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,330 Nice guys. Hmm. Ants, mouthfuls. 368 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,290 Mouthfuls. Mm-hmm. ants of the size that I've not seen, 369 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,210 clearly ants used strictly for culinary purposes. 370 00:20:08,210 --> 00:20:09,210 Mm. Okay, sure. 371 00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:13,370 And I've had just enough to drink now to go, oh, what the. 372 00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:15,290 Hell? Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 373 00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:17,210 And this is of course, what they wanted to see. So. 374 00:20:17,210 --> 00:20:19,730 You're on your first drink, is what you're saying? . 375 00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:22,570 But it was very strongly. Yeah. 376 00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:25,810 And I, I have to say that the chicken tasted like chicken, 377 00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:27,810 and the ants tasted not like chicken. 378 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,570 Okay. Mm-hmm. , did they taste like ants? They. 379 00:20:30,570 --> 00:20:31,770 Didn't taste like anything. . 380 00:20:32,130 --> 00:20:34,930 . They crunched though, didn't they? But. 381 00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:38,810 But, you know, I looked up at one point and, and I see all these, uh, 382 00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:43,810 all the faces of my colleagues eagerly looking to see what is this westerner 383 00:20:43,810 --> 00:20:47,280 gonna do? Mm-hmm. and I will eat anything. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 384 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,680 I I've seen that. I really, I'll I'll, 385 00:20:49,910 --> 00:20:52,920 that very few things will put me off like that. Yep. 386 00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:57,280 There's only one thing that ever put me off. And, uh, 387 00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:01,400 it was the eye of the goat. Yes. In Kazakhstan. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. 388 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,080 . Did we talk about. 389 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,920 That? We did. I think so. Yeah. We had, remember that's an earlier. 390 00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:08,480 Episode of people. Right. But to the discussion of alcohol, 391 00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:12,240 the reason I was able to eat it, even though I really wasn't sure I could, 392 00:21:12,740 --> 00:21:16,160 the reason I was able to eat it was because I just washed it down with a gulp 393 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,400 of, of vodka. Yeah. 394 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,480 Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I would think that'll happen. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. 395 00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:24,880 Yeah. So the ants on the goat's eye, you know, 396 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:28,760 the vodka helped or whatever this Sure. The liquor was in China. 397 00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:33,520 But the ants, I have to assume, I mean, the in, I know that, uh, 398 00:21:33,670 --> 00:21:38,440 when I was a young, young Ladd. A Ladd, yes, yes. Um, my sister, who was, 399 00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:41,040 uh, eight years older than me was, um, 400 00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:46,930 had prepared chocolate covered ants. Hmm. And, 401 00:21:47,030 --> 00:21:47,710 um, 402 00:21:47,710 --> 00:21:52,450 and I ate some at that time simply because I was the younger brother, 403 00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:57,490 and I think I was under threat, uh, by my sister to, uh, 404 00:21:57,590 --> 00:22:02,170 to have to try them. Um, and I remember that the ants were, 405 00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:05,930 um, totally uninteresting, but the chocolate was good. Well. 406 00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:06,810 They gave a crunch to it. 407 00:22:06,910 --> 00:22:09,250 It gave definitely gave a crunch. Yeah. It was like, 408 00:22:09,310 --> 00:22:11,690 it was almost like having a, um, what's. 409 00:22:11,690 --> 00:22:15,530 That, that chocolate candy crunch? Was it Nestle's Crunch or. 410 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,410 Yeah, Nestle's Crunch. A little bit like that. Yep. Do they make. 411 00:22:18,410 --> 00:22:18,930 It with. 412 00:22:18,930 --> 00:22:23,290 Ants? They do. Probably. Nobody knows that. It's a, it's a proprietary, uh, 413 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,810 information out of ness. Yeah. But, um, 414 00:22:27,030 --> 00:22:31,570 it used to be until I said that right there, , but, um, it is a , 415 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,850 it's a, uh, yeah, it was. 416 00:22:34,670 --> 00:22:38,370 So I do have experience of that in a totally different cultural aspect. 417 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,250 More of a, a US family scenario. Did. 418 00:22:42,250 --> 00:22:45,170 Your sister cajole to eating it by telling you you could wash it down with 419 00:22:45,170 --> 00:22:45,640 vodka? 420 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,490 Yeah. Uh, she I will say this in my household, that was a possibility. 421 00:22:50,750 --> 00:22:55,250 Oh, . Okay. Uh, no, that did not happen. That did not happen. 422 00:22:55,830 --> 00:23:00,610 Um, but it was, it was, uh, no, there was no cajoling. It was, 423 00:23:00,630 --> 00:23:02,930 uh, basically eat this. Oh. 424 00:23:03,150 --> 00:23:04,970 I'm your oldest assistant. Yeah. Just eat this. 425 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,570 Yeah. So, um, so I did, I think it, it maybe even, 426 00:23:08,990 --> 00:23:13,250 it disappointed her that it was not like disgusting or anything. It was, uh, 427 00:23:13,870 --> 00:23:17,850 it was perfectly fine. But that takes us away from, uh, 428 00:23:17,850 --> 00:23:20,570 your experience with all these ants on there. And, 429 00:23:20,590 --> 00:23:24,610 and so this was the preparation of it. This was a, um, that the, 430 00:23:24,610 --> 00:23:29,410 these ants were placed on there and, and prepared cooked. Yes. 431 00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:31,090 On the, on the, oh, they. 432 00:23:31,090 --> 00:23:32,690 Weren't walking around. Well, . 433 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,690 That could have been kind of cool. Um, so yeah. Okay. All right. It was. 434 00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:39,890 Now if I'm gonna, I, I want a. 435 00:23:39,890 --> 00:23:41,850 Crunchy ants, I want cooked crunchy. Well, that's it. 436 00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:44,970 Yeah. And that's gotta was. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it was. Yeah. Right. 437 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:45,870 Alright. Okay. 438 00:23:45,870 --> 00:23:46,560 Nice, nice. 439 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,880 Yeah. And you found no real flavor out of them either. 440 00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:55,070 No. Yeah. But, uh, that point was that because I was semi-conscious . 441 00:23:55,070 --> 00:23:56,910 Right. , I can't, I don't. 442 00:23:56,910 --> 00:23:57,950 Know. Did the chicken have flavor? 443 00:23:58,750 --> 00:24:02,070 I remember that chicken tasted like chicken and the ants didn't taste like 444 00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:02,740 chicken. Yeah. 445 00:24:02,740 --> 00:24:05,990 Then I think we can go on Your taste buds we're at least semi-active. 446 00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:08,230 Yeah. That, well, semi-active. That's Sure. 447 00:24:08,510 --> 00:24:09,343 . Either one. 448 00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:13,150 So Dean, was there, was there a time where you perhaps, 449 00:24:13,690 --> 00:24:16,070 or you felt that you perhaps indulged a bit too much? 450 00:24:16,250 --> 00:24:17,430 Always. Yeah. But. 451 00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:19,270 Like, but like, especially, so Okay. We. 452 00:24:19,270 --> 00:24:20,990 Narrowed down to a portion of the plan where. 453 00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:26,270 Like others maybe you felt noticed or you maybe were felt paranoid about it, 454 00:24:26,610 --> 00:24:28,630 or, you know, it, it, you know, 455 00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:33,350 there was any real discernible impact that you felt like was the result of maybe. 456 00:24:33,670 --> 00:24:37,190 I vibing a bit more than you had intended to originally? No. Okay. 457 00:24:37,330 --> 00:24:38,510 No, I never, oh, well, well. 458 00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:40,470 Look at you very responsible. No. 459 00:24:40,550 --> 00:24:41,870 I, I don't think I ever. 460 00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:43,230 He's telling us what he can remember. 461 00:24:43,550 --> 00:24:44,350 . I know. 462 00:24:44,350 --> 00:24:47,110 I, I'll, I'll ask Cheryl. Check it out with her. 463 00:24:47,620 --> 00:24:48,270 Your wife's. 464 00:24:48,270 --> 00:24:48,980 Wide move. 465 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:52,670 Yeah. Well, yeah. She may have another take. Yeah. Yeah. . 466 00:24:54,380 --> 00:24:55,090 Okay. Okay. 467 00:24:55,090 --> 00:24:57,190 You're contemp, you're contemplating. Yeah. I. 468 00:24:57,390 --> 00:24:58,223 I mean, the wheel's turning. 469 00:24:58,370 --> 00:25:02,790 I'm thinking about this and I, I don't think I embarrassed myself ever anywhere, 470 00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:03,580 really? 471 00:25:03,580 --> 00:25:04,550 Yeah. Or like what you. 472 00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:06,350 Should, should I, should I, should I. 473 00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:08,190 Tell a you into the line line, . . 474 00:25:08,570 --> 00:25:09,950 Is there any times where you're like, I'm, 475 00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:12,430 I'm coming to the line here and I won't have another drink? 476 00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:14,070 Well, you know, from, let's go. 477 00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:15,830 I have another one. I might go over the line. Let's. 478 00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:19,070 Go from one culture where alcohol is prohibited mm-hmm. Right. 479 00:25:19,090 --> 00:25:23,230 To another culture where it is, it is the water of life. Sure. I, 480 00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:24,430 I remember in Russia. 481 00:25:24,850 --> 00:25:27,510 Ah-huh Ah, ah, okay. Talking about vodka. 482 00:25:27,930 --> 00:25:31,630 And, and all throughout eastern Europe, and, and I've been, 483 00:25:31,980 --> 00:25:34,950 I've been doing work in Eastern Europe for over 30, 40 years, 484 00:25:35,130 --> 00:25:39,230 so I remember it back in the post-Soviet days. Mm-hmm. And I, 485 00:25:39,450 --> 00:25:43,390 and now it, it's changed. It, they're heavily influenced by the west. So it, it, 486 00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:48,350 it's, it's, it's different in many places, but fundamentally, still, 487 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,550 still a very heavy drinking culture. Mm-hmm. Um, and I remember in, in Russia, 488 00:25:54,490 --> 00:25:58,790 oh my God. I mean, they would take out the vodka and they were serious. And, 489 00:25:58,850 --> 00:26:02,470 and I almost felt like it was their obligation to 490 00:26:03,620 --> 00:26:06,350 host me because I was the guest. Yes. Mm-hmm. . 491 00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:11,270 But there were times when I felt they were doing it offering me the vodka only 492 00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:14,710 out of, out of a sense of duty and obligation. Mm. Really? 493 00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:18,190 Because they didn't want, they wanted all of it for themselves. 494 00:26:18,750 --> 00:26:20,950 . I see. Yeah. They didn't wanna waste it on you. 495 00:26:21,470 --> 00:26:24,470 . And they were drinking a whole lot more than I was, 496 00:26:24,670 --> 00:26:27,230 I became the excuse for them to just drink more. 497 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:28,710 More. Okay. Okay. 498 00:26:28,730 --> 00:26:30,190 The fact that I was there. Yeah. 499 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:30,990 Well, 500 00:26:30,990 --> 00:26:35,420 then you were doing your duty and you probably had to continue to drink to allow 501 00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:36,300 them to continue to drink. 502 00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:37,300 I didn't. I. 503 00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:37,460 Didn't. 504 00:26:37,460 --> 00:26:39,220 You did not. I didn't. Okay. No, I. 505 00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:42,260 Was Did they continue to drink? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 506 00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:43,600 This isn't then my theory is. 507 00:26:43,780 --> 00:26:46,600 You know, and, and this, look, this was my experience and my, 508 00:26:46,620 --> 00:26:50,240 in the experience of many of it, I know. I mean, this is not just a stereo Sure. 509 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,840 Stereotype that is serious, serious drinking and the, 510 00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:58,480 and using almost any excuse mm-hmm. In order to do so. Mm-hmm. , 511 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,800 I remember one time I was with a client in Budapest, and it, 512 00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:07,800 this was just post-Soviet days. Hmm. And, um, 513 00:27:08,220 --> 00:27:11,990 we had a meeting at nine o'clock in the morning, and, uh, 514 00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:16,950 we walked into this meeting room and shot glasses were at every 515 00:27:17,020 --> 00:27:21,830 seat. Yeah. Along with paper and pencil. Wow. And a water glass. Wow. Huh. 516 00:27:22,650 --> 00:27:26,190 And when the meeting began, our Hungarian hosts came in, 517 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,790 there were no questions asked. Mm. 518 00:27:29,170 --> 00:27:32,630 Poured a a I'm assuming the liquor was Unum. 519 00:27:33,530 --> 00:27:34,790 Mm-hmm. I've had. 520 00:27:34,790 --> 00:27:38,910 That, which is a traditional Hungarian Yes. We've had it. 521 00:27:39,070 --> 00:27:41,310 Together. Yes, we have. Yes. You've introduced it to me. 522 00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:44,270 Because I bought several bottles of Unum on. 523 00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:46,090 . 524 00:27:46,090 --> 00:27:48,910 And we, somebody's gotta this, and we still have one model. 525 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:52,590 Left Oh, okay. For the future . Yeah. 526 00:27:53,050 --> 00:27:56,470 And so they poured this unum at nine o'clock in the morning. Mm. 527 00:27:56,970 --> 00:27:59,390 Oh my goodness. And that's, yeah. Ooh, traditional. 528 00:27:59,390 --> 00:27:59,710 Hungarian. 529 00:27:59,710 --> 00:28:02,230 Hungarian. It was five o'clock someplace. So traditional. 530 00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:05,230 Hungarian liquor. Um, and, uh, 531 00:28:05,610 --> 00:28:07,550 and it was to start the negotiation Yeah. You know, 532 00:28:07,550 --> 00:28:11,550 to make a certain sense of camaraderie and fair play. And, 533 00:28:12,650 --> 00:28:17,590 and I didn't expect that. Yeah. But we did it. Now, to be fair, was only, and. 534 00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:19,950 You were worried about sangria with our podcast, right. 535 00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:23,950 could have brought that last bottle of Ucco. There. 536 00:28:23,950 --> 00:28:27,110 You go. Yeah. But that was, well, that's true, Tom. I mean, 537 00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:30,670 that was just a cl that was just a client. But the podcast is, 538 00:28:30,820 --> 00:28:34,310 it's much more our fans and our audience, 539 00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:36,710 and our loved ones. 540 00:28:36,730 --> 00:28:40,990 That's true. That's very true. That's very, very true. Yeah. , 541 00:28:43,230 --> 00:28:47,430 I, I'm wondering, did you notice, or could you tell it did, did, 542 00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:49,870 did the drinking continue or was it, that's what I'm wondering, 543 00:28:49,890 --> 00:28:51,750 was it just the one, was it just the one shot? Oh. 544 00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:54,990 At the Hungarian meeting? Yeah. Yeah. It was just that for that. Okay. 545 00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:56,050 My experience. 546 00:28:56,050 --> 00:28:57,030 Was just that one. Ah. 547 00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:59,470 Okay. Was the, it, was it it almost celebratory. 548 00:28:59,490 --> 00:29:01,270 Or it was ceremonial. Ceremonial. 549 00:29:01,270 --> 00:29:02,870 Yeah. Ceremonial. This is how we start the meeting. 550 00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:05,390 This is how we start the meeting. Doesn't matter what time it is. Right. 551 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,170 Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Okay. Hey, I, it's, um, 552 00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:13,770 that's okay. Hey, maybe it gets things flowing faster. Exactly. You know? Yeah, 553 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,840 sure. Literally that light. Yeah. It does something. So, right. 554 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,640 Yeah. But I, I was impressed with how different, 555 00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:27,640 as you go east, how it became more and more a fact, 556 00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:29,400 an essential fact of life. 557 00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:31,000 Yeah. Uhhuh . Okay. 558 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,680 A a again, as east if in Europe. Right. 559 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:37,560 So as we went into Russia. Yeah. 560 00:29:38,180 --> 00:29:40,400 So let's say theoretically you had not. 561 00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:43,560 Downed the, the shot of Unum in Hungary, 562 00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:45,960 or you had not kept having vodka in Russia. 563 00:29:46,010 --> 00:29:47,680 Would that have been seen as disrespectful? 564 00:29:47,860 --> 00:29:49,800 Uh, yes. I think so. Okay. So you, 565 00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:52,280 that first drink is ceremonial and you have to do it. Yeah. 566 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,560 And if you don't wanna drink it, you can just put it to your lips. 567 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,720 You don't have to swallow, but you do have to go through the motions. Gotcha. 568 00:29:57,740 --> 00:29:59,480 Mm-hmm. . Okay. Uhhuh, . And there's usually, 569 00:29:59,660 --> 00:30:02,360 you know, the different toasting that's involved country by country, 570 00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:06,880 or oftentimes it takes a different form. So that's part of a ceremony, 571 00:30:06,980 --> 00:30:09,960 and you need to observe that. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. , I, 572 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,280 I would say you don't have to go beyond that if you can't or don't want to. 573 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,480 Yeah. Okay. Okay. Uh, 574 00:30:14,780 --> 00:30:18,520 but it gets more and more difficult as you go further east until you're in 575 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,520 Russia where they just expect it. Yeah. Okay. 576 00:30:23,060 --> 00:30:24,280 Expect continuously. 577 00:30:24,510 --> 00:30:29,280 Yeah. Do you have, do you have thoughts on why, why that is from a, 578 00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:31,840 you know, cultural historical perspective? 579 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,320 I don't know. I could be very glib about it and just say, you know, 580 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,600 there's a lot of disenchantment with life and the, uh, 581 00:30:38,140 --> 00:30:42,280 and there's an element of the culture that makes for a very, um, 582 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,500 uh, inward looking personality, uhhuh, . Um, 583 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,700 it just seems to be more prevalent, and there's probably lots of answers, 584 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,020 and I don't want to give one that reinforces a stereotype if I'm incorrect. 585 00:30:58,090 --> 00:31:01,500 Yeah, that makes sense. But clearly the behavior is there. Yeah. 586 00:31:07,370 --> 00:31:10,660 There's also the, the, the weather, the, the cold Yeah. 587 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,700 The long winters taking that too, things like that. 588 00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:16,980 But does that translate over to other countries that might have long winters, 589 00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:20,060 even longer winters, the Scandinavian countries and so on? 590 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,620 Do they tend That's a good question, 591 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,100 to use the alcohol as something that helps them Right. 592 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,060 In those darker and colder months? Yes. 593 00:31:29,180 --> 00:31:30,860 I would, I would say, uh, I, 594 00:31:30,860 --> 00:31:35,140 there's probably research out there that indicates that alcohol use increases 595 00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:40,980 based on climate. Hmm. I think so. I mean, you see it in Iceland, you see it in, 596 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,540 in, in Scandinavia. Okay. You see it in Scotland. Right. Okay, sure. Yeah. 597 00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:47,683 Sure. 598 00:31:48,220 --> 00:31:53,080 Uh, when I was in Reykjavik, um, it, you know, 599 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,240 learning about the culture, I, I was told that, um, 600 00:31:57,380 --> 00:31:59,840 on Friday nights in Reykjavik, what, 601 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,280 what you what Icelanders do is they go out and drink. 602 00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:04,840 And with the whole idea of trying to get as drunk as possible, 603 00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:08,160 as fast as possible. Mm-hmm. And now that, 604 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,200 that's obviously not true for everybody, every individual. Right. But that, 605 00:32:12,270 --> 00:32:16,120 that this is part of the culture in Kovic, um, 606 00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:21,360 and no doubt it has to do with the fact that for a significant percentage of the 607 00:32:21,390 --> 00:32:25,000 year, we're living in darkness and we're living in a, in a lot of cold. Yeah, 608 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:25,710 yeah. 609 00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:30,240 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It just, it just seems like that would be the case. I mean, 610 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,760 even looking at it from a New England, 611 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,440 Northeastern United States viewpoint mm-hmm. Um, we, we don't have the, 612 00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:41,760 the depth of the cold or the length of the season that many 613 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,680 of those places you just mentioned have, but, but we do have winter and we, 614 00:32:45,710 --> 00:32:46,440 yeah. I live in. 615 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:47,960 Cold, so I can, there you go. 616 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:48,913 I can understand. 617 00:32:49,310 --> 00:32:51,160 Well, that, that will explain. Are, are you, 618 00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:55,560 are you preempting any kind of judgment around your behavior in the wintertime? 619 00:32:56,060 --> 00:33:00,880 No, no. no, definitely not . 620 00:33:02,980 --> 00:33:06,120 But I mean, it, it, it certainly too, you know, you mentioned this too, but the, 621 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,360 the ceremonial aspect of it, the, the, even in the, 622 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,240 in the one thing at nine o'clock in the morning, you know, 623 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,720 the ceremonial aspect of it, but also those types of things that the comradery, 624 00:33:16,420 --> 00:33:17,840 the, uh, and especially in, 625 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,000 in anywhere where you do get darker days in the winter, where, where we are, 626 00:33:22,010 --> 00:33:26,440 yours is a little bit more here in Connecticut, there's, we're in a, 627 00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:30,480 in a region where the, the earliest we get is four 30 in the afternoon, 628 00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:36,360 uh, right at the, at the in, when winter begins, you get four 30 afternoon, 629 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,840 the sun's gone, and you get that long night, 630 00:33:40,030 --> 00:33:44,560 then it follows and so on. And then in those times, the, the ceremonies and the, 631 00:33:44,580 --> 00:33:48,760 and the going out and being with people and, and enjoying those kinds of things, 632 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,080 I think it leads to that. I mean, 633 00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:56,360 whether it's good for you or not is another discussion, but it, it, 634 00:33:56,460 --> 00:33:57,920 it leads to that, and Dean, you're. 635 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,280 Talking about countries and cultures where sometimes there's no sunlight in a 636 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,160 day or very, very. 637 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,720 Very little. Right, right. Right. 638 00:34:04,910 --> 00:34:05,480 That, that. 639 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:06,313 Extreme. 640 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,440 Situation. Yeah. Sun, the sun's out, you know, 641 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:12,560 the dead of winter and light health for about two hours. That's it. Yeah. 642 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,393 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 643 00:34:13,630 --> 00:34:15,520 Alcohol might, might assist in such times. 644 00:34:15,670 --> 00:34:18,320 Yeah. I think the car, I think the, the test here is, 645 00:34:18,540 --> 00:34:20,560 is looking for the corollary, right? Mm-hmm. 646 00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:25,840 So it is it true therefore that there is less alcohol consumption in the 647 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,320 hotter cultures. Right. In hotter climates. Yeah. 648 00:34:28,650 --> 00:34:29,483 Right. 649 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:33,720 And I don't know the research on this, so I, I, I hesitate, 650 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,760 I don't know intuitively a knee-jerk response would be Yeah, probably. 651 00:34:38,380 --> 00:34:41,230 But I might be wrong. I don't, you. 652 00:34:41,230 --> 00:34:44,070 Know, and it would have to be the culture that is from that area, 653 00:34:44,250 --> 00:34:48,750 not people moving into there, bringing culture from another area into it. Um, 654 00:34:49,150 --> 00:34:52,830 I, I'm just thinking in, in, within a country like the United States, 655 00:34:52,830 --> 00:34:53,663 which is large, 656 00:34:54,170 --> 00:34:57,550 and you get people moving from the colder weather to the warmer weather, 657 00:34:57,550 --> 00:35:01,070 people go to Florida or the Arizona or Southern California, 658 00:35:01,430 --> 00:35:03,990 wherever they go to live in, in warmer climate, 659 00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:09,150 they're bringing the culture from the colder climate into the warmer climate. 660 00:35:09,850 --> 00:35:14,110 And that's a kind of that cross-cultural type of thing that that can happen. 661 00:35:14,990 --> 00:35:19,770 But we are talking about what did the air that area develop did it, does, 662 00:35:19,770 --> 00:35:23,650 does it develop because they have longer days throughout the year, um, 663 00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:26,890 and they have warmer weather. Does it, 664 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,570 does it preclude any kind of, um, 665 00:35:31,650 --> 00:35:33,210 tendency toward that behavior? 666 00:35:34,030 --> 00:35:34,863 I dunno. Yeah. I don't know. 667 00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:38,400 It's an influencer. I don't know if it's the main influencer. Right. 668 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,160 And I don't know if it's the major determinant. Sure. Right. That's, 669 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,960 I think that's the thing. And, and. 670 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,200 Again, 671 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,360 a situation where it's so extreme where there's such little light in a day and 672 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,120 it's so, so Well. 673 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,440 Then you can attribute, uh, it, it being a major, to some. 674 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,560 Degree, it's gonna have impact. Sure. An effect. Yeah. Sure. 675 00:35:54,020 --> 00:35:55,520 But then again, uh, you know, 676 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,480 I remember sharing a cigar and several glasses of tequila. 677 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,760 I was gonna bring this story up. Yeah. Actually, with. 678 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:02,640 With you, sir. 679 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,120 I think, uh, in Mexico, 680 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,720 I think someone said something about not being embarrassed or something like 681 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:11,280 that. I didn't wanna bring up this. Well, I. 682 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,360 Could never, never. Here we're wait minute. 683 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,160 I could never be, we, I'm, I'm amazed you can remember that story at all. 684 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:16,680 Actually. 685 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,040 I could never be embarrassed around you. That's. 686 00:36:20,590 --> 00:36:21,240 Okay. Fair. 687 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:25,720 Enough. I mean, you know, but now if I had behaved that way with a client, 688 00:36:25,930 --> 00:36:27,760 which I never would've done Right. 689 00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:32,480 Right. Unless they invited you to . Unless it was the culture. 690 00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:33,680 Unless it was the culture. 691 00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:36,560 Yeah. And what are we, what are we specifically talking about , 692 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,600 we're talking about two tequilas and two Cuban cigars, 693 00:36:39,780 --> 00:36:42,480 and my inability to get out of the chair after that. 694 00:36:42,860 --> 00:36:43,240 And we, 695 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:47,120 and ba and walking to a restaurant and trying not to let you drown in the pool 696 00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:50,680 on the way to fall in. Yeah. Yes. Um, other than that, 697 00:36:51,540 --> 00:36:55,160 you were perfectly fine. My favorite part of that entire evening, however, 698 00:36:55,340 --> 00:36:59,440 was when after finishing the second tequila, um, 699 00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:02,800 and the first cigar, um. 700 00:37:02,980 --> 00:37:04,080 And they were Cuban cigars. 701 00:37:04,510 --> 00:37:08,400 They were wonderful Cuban cigars, and we were in Mexico, and, um, 702 00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:13,360 they were easy to come by. So the, um, but your, 703 00:37:13,390 --> 00:37:14,960 your comment was, 704 00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:18,880 you realize we were in happy hour and it was a twofer time. 705 00:37:19,140 --> 00:37:22,680 So you announced, let's get two more , 706 00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:26,680 meaning not the cigars, but the, uh, tegu. Uh. 707 00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:28,760 And that was. 708 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,080 Veto. 709 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,320 Was veto. And, and, and it was vetoed. Thank you. My friend. 710 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,120 took care of me because I had, had I not had, you both. 711 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,560 Would've drowned in the pool. . 712 00:37:39,060 --> 00:37:40,480 Not had you there in that moment. 713 00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:44,120 Only Lord knows what might have been. 714 00:37:44,490 --> 00:37:46,600 You'd still be there in that lobby, I think. 715 00:37:46,930 --> 00:37:48,320 Stuck in the chair. Yeah, that's. 716 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,560 Right. . Yes. Um, it actually was quite a fun evening, 717 00:37:52,780 --> 00:37:53,613 but . 718 00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:57,120 Well, we can reminisce about it now. Yeah. Yes, we can. 719 00:37:57,220 --> 00:37:58,880 And think about the cultural implications. 720 00:37:59,190 --> 00:38:00,880 Yeah, absolutely. That's why I'm. 721 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,600 Overindulging like that. Yes. Well, and that was overindulging, and. 722 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,280 I'm sure there was very many negative complications other than later than the 723 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,880 next day. Yes. You were having fun and no one got hurt. 724 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,440 le le let me set the record straight. Okay. 725 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:15,240 All right. Here. 726 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,680 We go. I very rarely overindulge. 727 00:38:17,730 --> 00:38:22,480 Right, right. Oh, well, sure. Yes, that's true. That is very true. Yes. The, um, 728 00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:25,640 yes. That was a very fun, um, 729 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,920 exceptional evening to side. Yeah. , 730 00:38:31,860 --> 00:38:32,960 are we still recording? Oh. 731 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:33,720 We are still. 732 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,640 Recording. Oh. Um, . 733 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,800 . But here's the thing. 734 00:38:38,430 --> 00:38:41,880 Here, it's the thing here. It's, hold on. Here's the thing. 735 00:38:42,460 --> 00:38:46,240 The moral of the story is, ah, that there's always a cultural element. 736 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,000 There's always an individual element also. Yes. Mm-hmm. 737 00:38:49,070 --> 00:38:53,240 Some people do not want to do this, cannot do it. Very true. Medically don't. 738 00:38:53,260 --> 00:38:54,360 Not healthy for them. Right. 739 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,280 Right. Religiously choose not to. Yeah. Whatever the reason mm-hmm. 740 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,920 . Um, and, and so, you know, there, 741 00:39:00,970 --> 00:39:04,240 there are strategies and ways to approach this, 742 00:39:04,460 --> 00:39:07,680 but you have to always have the knowledge that this is, 743 00:39:07,790 --> 00:39:09,640 this is still an integral part of, 744 00:39:10,420 --> 00:39:13,680 of the human experience in many different cultures, 745 00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:16,600 and all cultures celebrate it in many different ways. Mm-hmm. . 746 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,320 Yes. And use it, use alcohol Absolutely. Or other drugs. Yeah. Um, 747 00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:22,613 as a way of, 748 00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:27,280 of creating a certain camaraderie or a certain environment in which they, 749 00:39:27,550 --> 00:39:29,680 they hope to achieve certain things. Mm-hmm. . 750 00:39:29,780 --> 00:39:33,240 Yes. Yeah. And the reason that we can, 751 00:39:33,540 --> 00:39:35,920 we know this is because. 752 00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:38,143 Oops. 753 00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:38,870 Your. 754 00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:42,120 Culture's showing smell. Yeah. 755 00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:56,240 Okay. Listen, the way to get hold of us is, oops, 756 00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:00,640 culture show@gmail.com, and our Twitter handle is, oops. 757 00:40:00,670 --> 00:40:04,320 Culture show. Whether this is the first episode or the third episode, 758 00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:08,360 or whatever episode that you've listened to, you should really subscribe. 759 00:40:08,660 --> 00:40:12,240 That's the best way to go. Really, honestly, I know what I'm talking about. 760 00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:13,260 Alright. 761 00:40:13,260 --> 00:40:18,200 So just subscribe through iTunes or through wherever you get your podcasts 762 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:19,640 from. Subscribe. Thank you.