Todd and Rob in the afternoon.
With
Todd and Rob.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah. Rob, how are you doing?
Happy New Year. How are you?
I'm doing okay, Todd. I did a doubleheader
tonight, so I did my my podcast tips
show just like an hour before the show.
Well, that's good because I know that,
essentially, you were just getting back last night,
and we were unable to,
you know Do our show a normal night.
Right? Do our show the normal time. So
here here we are on a on a
Thursday. I wanted to get this out because,
next week I'm traveling.
I'm back headed back to United States.
Yeah.
And,
so yeah. So I'm
I'm, I'm excited about being back, back in
the back in the US and, on a
a normal work hour, I guess.
Hey. Before we get into the topic at
hand today, I I you know, there was
it's been making the rounds.
I think it even made pot news.
There's this thing going on about
the Honey plugin. And for those of you
that don't know what the Honey
plugin is, it's a product from PayPal,
and,
it's designed to help people find deals,
find promo codes
when they're
essentially shopping. And
it's been very nefarious for many, many years,
and I, you know, I my codes for
GoDaddy,
ended up
on that platform
without me submitting it
multiple times.
And I've had to go over there
and ask for those codes to be removed
multiple times
because they weren't ever linked to my affiliate
link. They were the code it was a
code in gesture,
but it
when you clicked on it, it didn't
get I didn't get any benefit from it.
So So where does that benefit go, Todd?
Does it, go to somebody else's affiliate account?
Yeah. It goes to Honey. And but I've
known about
but my point was take my promo codes
off.
Don't have my promo codes on there because
I had very exclusive promo deals for and
I still did for a lot of services.
And
so I fought long and hard to get
my promo codes. People would always tell, I
wish I get my promo codes are on,
honey. Well, guess what? You're you're
it means nothing.
They're just using your promo code, but and
they've hide they hide the affiliate link when
they click through because I tested
that it was not my affiliate link. So,
so for many, many, many years,
I have fought to keep my promo codes
off the Honey platform. They make it look
like
they found the best deal with using one
of my codes,
but it was never my
code.
So
it's come to life. Scam going on here,
Todd? I it sounds like a scam to
me. Well, what's happened
now is YouTubers have figured out through Audible
and all these other affiliate marketing deals they've
done
that any person running the Honey browser
plug in.
Mhmm. If you're on a YouTuber's page,
Todd's affiliate page, on Geek News Central for
GoDaddy, anywhere you're at and you click the
link,
and this is the key because there's the
2 parts of this. You click the link
and you go and you basically
have the Honey app installed.
It has a function where
it basically,
in essence, is replacing
that action. It re re deletes the cookie.
It it, intercepts the affiliate link. It substitute
its own. It sets its own cookie, and
you get screwed. You do not as a
creator, you do not get
the credit for that sale.
So why
why would a user
install this? Is it does does it give
you access
to discounts?
Yeah. They're getting discounts.
And and they they probably didn't know. They
probably didn't know. They probably didn't know.
Right. It was doing this.
And now
it's like all of a sudden these YouTubers
have woke up that Honey is this
thing that is your enemy.
And I've known for years that this thing
now I
I knew because
I was being very protective of my promo
codes.
So
but there's a second part to this
that no one's even talking about.
And may maybe it'll become as a realization.
A lot of affiliate platforms
okay. So as an example,
Commission Junction.
Mhmm. GoDaddy
uses,
when I first started doing deals with GoDaddy,
everything was run
through the company's
system.
So when someone came over then put a
a Geek New Central code into
into GoDaddy
or I had a link that went to
GoDaddy, it all got credited. It was all
good.
So
when GoDaddy, basically, I think what happened was
is they were they're trying to look for
central management system.
Maybe they didn't wanna build out their continued
building out their own affiliate system. So they
started using CJ. And in CJ, I have
exclusive deals in CJ
that are not available to someone that becomes
a normal GoDaddy affiliate.
Mhmm.
Those those deals are only available to me,
and you can't find them listed anywhere.
It's it's basically they're set up for Todd
and and Geek New Central. So
my first month, and this is years years
years ago of using
CJ,
all of a sudden, I came my reports
came in, and I'm like,
I'm 80%
down.
And I'm like,
something's
wrong.
You know, we've been consistently
hitting numbers
month after month after month. And when my
numbers will go down 80%, and all of
a sudden my revenue is
directly impacted, I went back to GoDaddy. I
said, something's missing.
Something is missing in this, and what it
turned out was
I had trained my audience to take the
promo code and paste it at checkout.
I didn't teach them to click the link.
I teach them to use the promo code.
Yeah. So because
they were going to GoDaddy direct and using
the promo code in the checkout,
CJ never saw that
volume, never saw that traffic.
Right. They only saw the traffic when the
link was clicked on.
Right. Is that sounds through their their tools?
Right. And to their credit, they said, oh,
yeah. Here's your codes being used. Here's the
rest of 80% of your traffic
that that is missing.
We will do a recalculation,
and, basically, they back the numbers back into
CJ
every month.
The CJ number is this big. The the
promo code copy and paste method is this
big,
and I'm I get full credit for the
traffic I send over.
Now
how many podcasters
are using Commission Junction
saying use my promo code
and not telling them to click the link?
And if the if they don't know this
and the advertiser is not giving them credit
for those manly pasted in promo codes at
checkout,
they're still losing money.
So
it's not because he even through the Commission
Junction site,
they have a tool that allows you to
enter that promo code in there. No, they
don't.
No. They produce links.
Yeah. Well, I know that they did that.
I thought for sure that they supported being
able to put in a, no,
The the data doesn't get fed back when
you manually enter a promo code
at checkout always has to be done at
the
at the merchant site. Is that what you're
saying? Merchant site. So the merchant has to
say, okay. This came in direct because I
told you go to GoDaddy. I told you
to use the promo code. They never clicked
the CJ link in
my website.
So
so GoDaddy was good, and they they squirted
away.
And it makes sense that CJ would not
see that traffic. It's not CJ's fault.
Mhmm.
Because
where it may be a fault
is there should be some interoperability
where that signal was sent back
to CJ to say, hey. This code was
used manually.
But if it but if someone's running a
promotion
like this okay. So
unlike my show,
they've told listeners
and viewers,
click the link. Click the link. Click the
link in the show notes. Click the link
in the show notes to get the discount.
Click the link.
You're safe if you click the link
so long as
there's no
Honey plugin
installed on a browser
by your listener.
So therein lies. And so they basically have
done, like, a class action lawsuit
against PayPal
for what and it is nefarious activity
for me.
So PayPal pop popped up in this conversation.
What
does PayPal own it? Yes. PayPal owns Honey.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So from my from my standpoint was I
had known for years
that I did not want any of my
promo codes on Honey
because I knew they were upsurfing.
But what I didn't know, what was news
to me was that they were bypassing
my clicked link if they had something in
the browser.
I knew that my promo code was not
giving me credit
across.
So what it really means then is all
these companies that work with Honey
and also have relationships with creators
need to stop using Honey. They're screwing their
well, what it really does is it could
con potentially
let's say that you have a
you're doing a show that is heavy merch,
and people are buying a lot of merch
online.
They probably have this plug in installed, and
it can cause your performance to go down.
By how much? I don't know.
But, again, you have
Yeah. Are you claiming that there's there's fraud
going on here?
Well, that's what the class action lawsuit is
saying.
That's what And the pay And
And then PayPal
is is is behind
defrauding valid
affiliates
on their payments.
PayPal paid, I think, $4,000,000,000
for Honey.
That was the acquisition cost of
I have to look at let me let
me run the Well, that's
I mean, the more I think about this,
the more it becomes
a criminal activity is what's going on here.
This isn't,
well, it is Todd. I mean, if, if,
if people are clicking on affiliate links in
their platform
and they're getting credit for that
somehow.
Yeah. That means that they're stealing revenue away
from
from the affiliate. And that is the definition
of fraud.
That's it's exactly what's happening is as as
described in the lawsuit.
Right. And they're
they're acting they're act asking for injective relief
immediately
to have this
this type of activity stopped. But it it's
it to me, it was kind of like,
oh, yeah. I know they're they're now good.
It's for me, it was no surprise. This
has been going on for
at least 10 years.
I you know, before PayPal even owned it
that I knew
if my again, this is my situation is
different in that my promo codes were showing
up on Honey.
Mhmm. But yet when they clicked on them,
I got I got
I got shit.
I got 0.
Well, there's always been concern. I mean, I
spent,
I spent a couple of years managing a
large affiliate program myself in the early days
of the internet and, and worked with
link share,
CJ and they're very early years and built
a very large affiliate program.
And one of the things that I've heard
you say over many years here, Todd, is
that even those platforms have not been always
giving full credit,
to,
to to the affiliate links. And there's always
been this kind of this gap between
what, what they're showing in their platform as
the, is the affiliate credits, right?
Versus what the sales transactions are that happened
with the merchant.
Right? There was almost like there was an
algorithm in there that was or kind of
like a short sheeting of the bed to
some degree
on the links passing through link share and
passing through,
CJ,
back in those days. And there were other
affiliate platforms back then too besides those 2,
but those were the biggest back then. It's
it's it's not in CJ's
best interest
to short sheet
someone clicking on an affiliate link because they
don't get paid unless
that goes through. So in other words, if
if if someone clicks on my CJ link,
Yeah. And goes through and does a GoDaddy
purchase,
well,
CJ only gets paid if that transaction happened.
So it would be it would be
it would be against CJ's best interest,
and I'm not pointing I'm not pointing a
finger at all at CJ.
It's would be against their best interest to
to do anything bad.
Right. Right. Right. But people have always wondered.
I look at my outbound traffic
on clicks, and I know what my outbound
clicks are because Yeah. I track it every
month. I've got the data in a spreadsheet.
And and then I go back, and, obviously,
people abandon cart.
People don't always make a decision.
Right. If you get them to click, that's
probably
the chance of that converting is 10%.
Right.
If they actually click the link and make
it to the shopping cart, make it all
the way through and and do an actual
purchase,
it's probably 10%.
Right. And
whereas
someone that has been on my site and
taken my promo code
and then got through the checkout process at
GoDaddy, they're purposely looking,
Even people searching on the web, they're purposely
looking for a deal.
So they copy the the
the promo code
and paste it in at checkout. So
it's up to the merchant
to make sure
they reconcile
this activity
that when a promo code's used manually to
make sure that that gets credited back to
CJ or have the mechanism
in there that CJ gets the report says,
hey. That that promo code was was used.
I can just tell you from
what I know, again, they go GoDaddy goes
into their system, and they say, okay. Here's
the numbers.
They they do a a a dollar amount
add to my account and CJ,
And CJ still cuts me a check, and
I don't lose those sales. Now at the
same time, I have had one of my
biggest GoDaddy months I've had in many, many
years in December. It was bigger than November.
So
I've been doing real well recently,
with
and I'm employing some new strategies and stuff.
But the long story is is
if you're running an affiliate deal
and it's a direct relationship
with a vendor, the vendors come to you
and said, hey,
Rob and Todd, we want you
to run this promo code whether it be
audible, blah blah blah blah blah blah. And
and the platform,
you need to make sure that you have
this conversation with them. Okay.
Are are you guys reconciling manually entered promo
codes?
Are you you know, what is the process
of making sure how long does my cookie
stay? So that's another piece too. Well, that's
another one. That's the variable. Right? Is the
variable how long when someone goes to the
website from my affiliate link, does that hold
or does someone else clicking another affiliate link
overwrite my mind in your platform? These are
the questions you have to ask.
Mhmm. I know how long
I have to convert a GoDaddy customer. They've
told me I'm not gonna share it. They've
told me how long when someone clicks my
link
and it goes and they don't get through
the shopping cart and they come back later,
how long
as long as they don't clear the browser
cache,
how long
How long does that cookie last, Todd? How
long does that cookie last for me to
still get credit for someone coming back? Right.
And maybe I'm just because I'm a tech
guy. I kinda understand this to a point.
Can't say that I know it perfectly,
but I know enough that when my revenue
went down 80%,
when we made the switch,
that something was wrong.
And maybe, to be honest with you, maybe
that was a
a good thing to have known because otherwise,
I if I'd have been just starting out
from scratch, I would have never went back
to go date and said, hey, there's something
missing here.
Well, that's a that's a little bit of
a hack in the system, right?
If you set those cookies to be,
relatively short,
then that customer can still click on that
link. It's just you won't get credit for
it. Well, I mean, what, what
allegedly is happening with Honey is they were
replacing the cookie or replacing
whatever that
is setting that,
you know, setting that, and they were basically
upsurping the system
purposely.
No. So, again, if you're not running the
Honey
browser, you're not screwing your
creators you're supporting. But if you're running the
Honey browser, get rid of that thing, in
my opinion.
So it's a whole browser. It's not a
plug in to a browser. Browser. It's a
plug in for a browser. It's a plug
in to Chrome?
Yeah.
Okay.
It's one of those things that say and
Amazon's got one too to help you find
deals. And it's just like having you know,
it's those little
little icons on the top right above the
Yep. I know it should be. Bar. Right.
So don't use that thing if you are
supporting a creator network.
Yeah. That's a pretty big scandal for a
big company like,
PayPal to get linked up with something like
this.
Well, why did they pay $4,000,000,000
for it? Well, obviously
it it was making money. Right?
That's the only reason.
Right.
Yes. I wanted to mention what one thing
too about the early days of the, of
the questioning of the, of the affiliate platforms
like CJ and link share. I don't think
link shares around anymore, but,
but those platforms,
people would question their, their kind of their
metrics out of those platforms.
And I agree with you, Todd, that the
that they had a motivation to convert as
many customers as they could. The problem that
I think for many years and maybe you
had some run ins with this early on
because I do remember us talking about this,
is it maybe those platforms were not as
reliable and counting those
those pass through links,
and in in reporting it to you, maybe
they were reporting it to the
the,
advertiser or the affiliate owner,
but maybe they weren't reporting it so they
didn't have to pay out as much money.
To to me, there's always been this question,
and I bet you we can talk to
any podcast advertising company
that's in existence today.
Mhmm. Why
why does a host read
a host read
CPM campaign
always
always, without question,
always perform better
than a straight affiliate deal. Why?
Same ad,
same process,
same messaging.
The only difference is
one is tied to an affiliate performance. The
other is tied to a CPM performance.
Why?
That it's still that happening today.
So why is there a difference in
performance?
Same campaign, just different payment methods.
I've always every ad deal now,
again,
I'm an exception because I get a hybrid
deal. I get a base with GoDaddy then
a performance
based upon performance,
but I still get a base CPM.
Well, I don't get it's not even a
CPM. It's a base rate.
Right. That could be applied and create a
CPM. Right. Yeah. They they back it out.
You know, they end up in the end.
It's it's, you know, how many customers did
we get? How much did we pay, Todd?
You know, they do they do a CPA.
What was that ultimate acquisition cost? It's almost
like a guarantee is what it is. It
is. Let me do something here. Yeah. But
at the same time, I've done deals after
deals after deals for years
where
and matter of fact, we are going to
I have a new well, I'll talk about
this partnership in a minute.
I have a
history
of seeing how performance goes on affiliate, just
straight affiliate
versus
CPMs.
And it's the CPMs always perform better. And
I've
and and I I've always said, someone, please
tell me what the difference is here.
And I truly believe it's about that disparity
of lost sales
somewhere from the click to
the purchase.
Or it's just not being triggered in the
database.
I'm sure that the referral happened just not
being counted properly because maybe you have a
coding error or something in the platform that
misses every
every couple of clicks. Right? Again and again
and again across multiple vendors.
Why is this the case?
I mean, it would be a way of
driving up ROI. Well,
to the advertiser
The, the, the, the, the advertisers, please, because
they said, oh, we got all these sales.
We don't have to pay. But if you,
as the, as the affiliate,
link provider, don't get credit for it. They
don't have to pay as much. A lot
of people run their own in house affiliate
systems.
Yes. Yeah. So there's always this
potential of
double checking that. Right? So you have basically
a a each time that link so you
can add, like, a layer to the URL
that will help you track it separately. Right?
Blueberry runs a very simple affiliate system.
And
the cookie, we we basically, 30 days
that it and it maybe is not a
cookie, but, basically, if someone comes to Blueberry
from a promo code from an affiliate,
we hold that
basically, if they come back within 30 days,
a person still gets credit for the sale.
And
and we can see that. We've you know?
And we we we paid out
5 figure bonus checks this year
to our affiliates,
and we pay core a matter of fact,
we pay our,
affiliates now,
every I think every month.
And
we see the performance.
I go right in the system. I can
see how many time promo code was used
for x y z.
It's very, very simple for us to track.
I've never had an affiliate complain.
Matter of fact, we've had it so good
that affiliate code plus, you get longer. If
you use a a Blueberry affiliate code, you
get 60 days free to begin with instead
of 30.
So we we make it even a better
bonus,
more more value to the affiliates to use
this to fill. So well, you guys are
giving 30 days free. Well, you when they
use your promo code, you tell them they
get 60 days free. So it's a better
deal. So we're not we're not Right.
Overriding
and under making the value of their affiliate
code less.
So
yeah.
And we just go ahead. So what areas
of an affiliate
program
with the technology that's implemented do you see
is there a potential
of manipulation,
I guess? Or Well, this what Honey has
done. They've interpreted Well, yeah. Yeah. I'm talking
about like a link, like a, like a
CJ. What could they do? Could they,
in mid campaign, change the duration of the
cookie? Could they
could they do other things? They could. Well,
usually well well, no.
Not well, yes. They could change anything at
any time.
Right. Right. Yeah. They could.
And part of the thing is that that
that referral could still happen
even even without an active,
activating cookie. Right? A person has a link
to that U. R. L. Maybe stored in
their their their bookmarks or something like that.
Or they have it, it's still gonna work.
Right? It's it's not gonna stop working just
because the cookie expired, is it? Yeah. As
long as they use the link or the
promo code.
Right.
Yeah. If you even have to have the
promo code. Right?
And if you for us, at least, at
Blueberry, 30 you come back the customer comes
back within 30 days, you still get credit.
Like, again, there's factors. If they've cleared their
browser cache,
that's gone. There's nothing That's gonna kill it
right there. Gonna kill it. Yeah. Yeah. So
and and, you know, it's something that we,
you know, we periodically
test. I you know, I think we've got
it on a 90 day Yeah. Rotation or
something like that. We test the infrastructure and
make sure it's holding.
And it so, again, it's something that we
go back and look at, but we've never
had had issues.
So, yeah, this whole situation and, again, how
many people have got the Honey
app installed? Well, let me
let
me let me Google that. How
many
installs
of the Honey
plugin.
Honey browser.
I think you can actually find out
on,
probably the plugin page.
It shows how many installs there are. So,
yeah, so
17,000,000
people have that thing installed.
Yeah. Okay.
No. 20,000,000 monthly visits to join honey.com.
20,000,000
monthly visits.
So that tells you how much people are
using
that site to save money.
Because if be people can find out if,
you know, they if they don't have a
promo code already,
that's where they go to get one and
save some cash. Mhmm. But if you are
a if you've got this installed in your
browser and you're clicking on a YouTube affiliate
link
for Audible or whoever,
you may not have given a penny to
that creator.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's just,
you know, I I saw a discussion about
it this this past 2 or 3 days.
I just like,
oh, you guys don't understand?
You guys you guys are just, like,
figuring this out now?
You know?
You know, again, I didn't know that they
were
doing this for it. You know? Again, I
was worried about my promo codes even just
being on Honey.
And,
and, again, I have to go over there
once once in a while and and peruse,
you know, to make sure that that they're
not running any of my promo codes because
I know that I'm getting ripped off.
Mhmm.
So Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Yep.
So, yeah. So we should probably move on
to talk about the topic that we've teased
for tonight.
I know all of you have been patient,
if you came here to hear that topic.
But,
but I don't know if you wanted to
start off, Todd, but there was an article
that Nick Quach, our famous, you know, our
our our fellow that, I think we came
close to having him on the show at
one point.
Yeah. Good. Oh, Nick.
You wrote an article in a vulture magazine,
talking about, will video kill the audio star
in 2025.
And
you know, it's a, it's a, it's a
provocative
headline. There's no question about it. I mean,
I think at the end of the whole
story here,
I think the,
the,
answer,
is
maybe what most people listening to this maybe
hope are hoping for.
But, but it's also an interesting story because
I think,
as we've seen happen, the rise of video
and the perception of it
as,
has shifted the conversation in the podcasting space
a lot. I mean, just this article is
an example of it. And, and I think
addressing the elephant in the room is really
the only pathway forward because a lot of,
like you've said, Todd, being people
maybe have a perception that
that video is now the priority
and and it's
and it's really not that simple. So so
what the thought is is that, you know,
that this is a major shift that's being
driven by these big platforms, YouTube, Spotify and
a lot of the big major content networks
out there have, you know, gone all in
on, on the video side. And,
and,
but
Nick's contention is that that's really been driven
by
mostly by
video posting to social media.
Just in a in a general sense. And
that would include like X and Facebook and
Tiktok and stuff. I think we talked about
this last week too. But,
and that there's this perception that there's a
delivery or not a delivery, but a discovery
benefit, right? That people are
able to discover new podcasts in these video
platforms. Right?
And that's what the research is continuing to
show is that,
that Youtube is now the number one place
to discover
podcasts
that
are perceived as a video. Right?
So that's that's kind of what's going on
here.
And that the audio only stuff is kind
of getting left
on the sidelines.
And that
there is this perception that the video side
is getting
this this cool factor that audio,
it doesn't have anymore. And and so I
think that's kind of where this is coming
from, right? Is that, you know, this this
conversation happened many years ago, Todd, as you
remember in the early days of podcasting where
it was, will the podcast? What was it?
The
the podcast star kill the radio star was
the conversation
back in the early days of podcasting. Right.
I'm sure you remember that it was like
a headline in in
I think one of the big national,
USA Today or something like that. I think
Adam Curry was featured there. So so it's
funny how we're seeing this kind of similar
kind of,
you know, position being taken here.
Well, you know, any comments about that so
far as we move through this?
If we think about the discovery piece,
this is not the first time anyone this
show has heard this. I've always said that
podcasting is not I have a discovery problem.
You you have a a Google problem.
Notoriously
Especially now. Right?
It could get yeah. I mean, even now
in this an opposite situation, but let's think
pre AI.
90 percent And also when when Google Podcasts
had a had a platform, right, in search.
90%
of podcasters do an absolute
horrendous,
horrible
I I I can't let's use the most
derogatory words we can.
Shitty write up and shitty titles for their
podcast episodes.
Mhmm. And it still exists today.
If you go through and look
at the episodes and the show notes of
90% of podcasters,
what they have done is they've they've created
this great beautiful,
sometimes
content,
and then they shoot themselves in the foot
by having this horrible metadata.
So we've been a product of our we
we've been a
the outcome,
crap out
Right. Means
shitty discovery.
So we've been we've had our own
we've been our own worst enemy in this
regard.
Number 2,
the search in
these apps has been horrendous.
Just Right. Freaking horrendous.
Yeah. That has been bad. It's been really
bad. No one has done search
well in apps. And the reason is they
have to invest in little infrastructure. They have
to have some servers.
They they can't just pull the Apple list
and expect to have good search results in
their apps. Most apps have done a shitty
job in discovery
of just simple search. We're not talking about
surfacing shows,
having tops, you know, top shows
that so we've been our own worst enemy
at least on those two regards.
Right.
You bring in video,
the video piece,
which I
am a very, very honest.
I have never I focused on the web.
I never focused on YouTube. My I put
a title in for years, I just put
a title in in a smidgen,
just a smidgen
of description,
kinda like most podcasters do.
So why hasn't my content on YouTube surfaced
and grown a channel? Because guess what? I
didn't do the things necessary
on YouTube to grow my channel. I didn't
have beautiful album art. I didn't play the
YouTube algorithm game, blah blah blah blah blah.
So same things apply.
So if you're a podcaster
and you're part of that 90%
that's doing shitty
on your web based publishing
and you put it on YouTube, you're still
gonna have shitty results because
you have to do a certain thing over
there to be discovered.
Your proven point, your channel's growing. You take
time in doing the metadata.
You take time in, you know, putting the
stuff in that's gonna make your content
found.
So again, I think
it'll and look more attractive. I mean, it's
a game of it's kind of like playing
a game of billboard, right? Yeah. I mean,
you have to have a good marketing billboard
on
on YouTube. And to some degree, that's the
case with podcasting to you still have to
have that compelling
cover art and you have to have, you
know, increasingly
really should have episode art.
And we've run episode art. At least I've
run episode of Art Art on Geek and
the Central for years, not on this show.
We started it when the AI stuff came
because I was, you know, I was able
to create some AI
crap, and half the time isn't a 100%
as good as it should be. But at
least it's something different. But the
the end result
is
the reason some people are finding some finer
success is they have they went over there
and they're following the rules.
They're following the YouTube algorithm rules. And
the problem is is no one has ever
really said in the podcasting space. Here are
the podcasting rules of what you need to
do to have Rich show notes and,
you know, all and we don't know what
Google's doing today with,
the any auto generated transcripts or if they're
even generating transcripts still of shows.
And also
to move a little deeper into this article,
a certain segment of shows are doing well
over there.
So I
that I believe
wholeheartedly
that he termed it chit chat shows.
That would be You and Me, a chit
chat show
Yeah. Are doing well
on YouTube
from a video standpoint. And,
yeah.
I think they are. I mean, based on
based on what I see. And they have
nice sets.
They've spent some money, you know, they got
Some do, some don't, Todd. It's it's really
kind of a hit and miss on that.
The majority that are succeeding
you have a nice set. You have a
nice background. You've invested
in a little bit of motif. It's not
completely boring. Look at me. I'm here in
a, you know, condo unit. There's nothing behind
me.
So
though, Todd, I would say I see some
very successful,
shows on YouTube that have backgrounds just like
yours. So it's,
it's more about the content.
It's more about how it's
presented.
And what the topics are is what I'm
increasingly seeing.
How timely is the topic? How
is it a zeitgeist
for people's interests,
Right? And then what the algorithm does over
there is it matches
those interest areas that they pick up from
their users. Right?
And it and they drive attention
of those users to that content that matches
their
previously
consumed content. Right? So it it does this
matching
to the consumer with the content. And if
the algorithm sees that this content from this
creator
that is in this kind of topic area
has good engagement, has deep listening, deep watching.
Right? So they're listening to,
you know, 10, 20, 30 minutes of a
of an hour show or something like that.
They will be more likely to recommend it
to more people that have that interest. So
if you have a large pool of people
that have an interest in a certain topic,
right, or a certain kind of niche issue,
and it's very emotional to people are finding
huge success on covering like the UAPs and
the UFOs,
stuff like that. And they will do like
2 hour episodes just sitting around
throwing up on the screen,
the videos from New Jersey,
and they'll be gathering
25,000
live live viewers.
It it's
in some ways, it's the same pattern that
I saw even in the early days with
live audio. I saw that to some degree,
it depends on the topic. Right.
There was a show that I worked with
on on speaker that was using their live
audio system
and they they were talking about, you know,
like Ghostbusters.
I mean, not,
ghost hunters, right? So they were talking about,
you know,
hunting ghosts on this live stream. It was
like a 3 hour live stream. They were
garnering 6 to 10000 comments and
and 10,000
views.
And I think that's kind of what's happening
here with YouTube. It's not so much about
podcasting. It's around more focused on
topics that are the people have an interest
in. Right. And in making them timely, making
it. I mean, if you look at what's
going on, too, with politics and what's going
on with
with a lot of the
the breaking news that's going on. Right. With
the
the the blowing up of the Cybertruck and
stuff like that,
that blows up huge on YouTube, too. Right.
So you and and YouTube will feed you.
It's just like being here's what they really
have accomplished.
They replaced news. They replaced mainstream news. Yeah.
They have. Well, podcasting and YouTube have replaced
news. Well, YouTube specifically because they're really, really
good because there's there's Well, in x
x is also one too. Right? But, again,
I I don't see
well, to an extent, I I don't see
media
on x. I see a lot of chit
chat
on x around these themes. And every once
in a while, there might be a media
clip intertwined.
But I think that what YouTube has really
mastered
from this perspective is if if you got
on
an hour after the Cybertruck blew up or
the New Orleans incident That's what people are
looking for. And and, basically,
people aren't looking for it. Go YouTube has
got someone in a in a center saying,
okay. Right now, this Cybertruck and the New
Orleans and these 100 topics are trending globally.
Yeah. That's because people people are are signaling
to the algorithm that they have an interest
in that.
But I also think that the people at
YouTube are sitting there
prioritizing
the the this stuff. I don't think it's
being done manually, Todd. Oh, I bet it
is. I bet a large point percentage of
it. The top stuff is being driven
has to be.
Why? You know, they would they why if
you're YouTube, you've got people, you've got a
ton of people that are probably assigned
to each category, say this is trending. Let's
go ahead and make sure that I'm sure
that they have people that are watching.
Why wouldn't they?
You know? Because it's it's slow. It's slow.
It's not gonna be as effective and as
fast as a algorithm would be.
Not if you have someone there 247,
and you have people that are watching that.
Do they I'm sure some of it is
a logarithm base, but I I bet you
a big percentage of it. Todd. I mean
I mean, just look at Facebook. It's the
same way. YouTube is not the really, really
said what how they do that, but there's
a lot of manual manipulation
on what gets driven to the top.
Has to be because the otherwise,
you wouldn't see the same channels again and
again and again and again and again. You'd
see a more variety of of channels.
There are definitely channels that are getting getting
higher priority,
surfacing
of discovery than, you know, the the top
10% are just they're there all the time
being promoted.
Well, it also I mean very rarely see
anything that's brand new in my
in my YouTube home feed. Very rarely.
I see it all the time. So, yeah,
they say they feed me the same shit.
Well, it's true because you have a history
of being with it or maybe you subscribe
to their channel. So there are signals that
the algorithm is picking up around
your interest,
graph. Right? And one thing for sure is
we don't do that at all on podcasting.
And I know, and
I think we have a massive amount of
data analytics envy going on in the medium
right now. I don't think that I think
the challenge is is I don't think people
engage
the audio
in that way.
I think in audio It's never been viral.
Right? It's never had a viral There's no
podcasting has never really had a viral component
to it. Yeah. Cereal. But again, it was
again a shove.
It wasn't a it was not a
piece of topic type of a show. Right.
Right. They never there's never surfaced
trending topics.
So trending topics tends to benefit,
from live.
Trending topics. It's just content that's put up.
No, no, no. I'm just speaking more generally
now. I'm saying that, that like, like what
we're doing right now,
we could, we could launch this show and
go live to talk about the cyber talk
explosion.
Right. And garner a big audience because everybody
wants to hear the latest news. But at
the end of the day, it's the reputation
of the channel. How much traffic does that
channel
on average generate? I mean, I see it
in the back end metrics
is that it is tracking,
your history,
of what a prior video has had, and
it will compare it to what this video
has. And it will tell you the difference
between those viewer numbers.
It'll say your average video gets,
you know, a 1000
views at this point in its publishing time
compared to this video. This new video gets
10,000 views. Yeah, right. So
it creates deltas on that. And that's a
signal to the algorithm
to keep either promoting it or backing off.
If it's not continuing to grow,
then the the algorithm will stop promoting it.
I've
been
remiss here, and we've got comments coming in
from YouTube. Beatty Bubbles says 19,000,000. I believe
that was in relation to Honey.
Oh, Honey. Okay. Dave's Fit Life says, what
I often find are the micro clips of
podcasts. Those are very entertaining. I watch many,
many
entertaining. I watch many, many
micro For sure. Of Rogan,
Earnhardt,
a few others.
That being said, I never watch either shows
in their entirety.
Beauty bubble says the basics are still relevant
collaboration, acknowledgment of audience, and a thorough think
tank may get behind.
Just some thoughts.
Dave,
content is still king for me. Beauty bubble
podcasters could rule this. It's true, but you
have to be timely,
And most podcasters are not timely.
I concur with that sentiment, Todd, over holiday
discussion, my family members mentioned
as discussion,
not movies or shows, but which YouTube channels
they follow even from the elderly. So,
so again, I think just like in podcasting,
I've got a
bundle of audio shows that I listen to.
On YouTube. I have a bundle
of content that I watch. A matter of
fact, during Christmas New Year's,
majority of those YouTube creators took off and
were not creating content.
So this the 10 or 15
shows I follow religiously
took the holidays off. I'm thinking, what
a miss.
What a miss.
They would have gained more because and so
what I what was YouTube serving to me
during the holiday period was definitely more stuff
I've never seen before.
So Yeah. Because there wasn't as much new
stuff. Right. But it's
YouTubers have this thing that's
basically,
and this is the big difference between YouTube
and podcast,
is the YouTubers are always chasing a ball.
It's like jumping it's like jumping into
a Yeah.
Big
can be taken out of the boat, on
a lake,
and you only know how to doggy paddle.
You don't know how to swim. You just
know how to doggy paddle to keep your
head above the water.
YouTubers, I feel
like you're putting in the lake and thrown
in, and they're dead doggy paddle, doggy paddle,
doggy paddle, doggy paddle. They gotta keep up.
Gotta keep up. Gotta keep up. Gotta keep
putting content. Gotta put gotta chase the algorithm.
Gotta gotta be irrelevant. Gotta be relevant. And
it's it eats them alive.
Well, that's what that's what YouTube wants.
They want this
this feverish pitch around content creators. That's what
they want. Whereas
whereas
podcasting,
I get to consume it when I want
to.
It's gonna be there. It still has that
element on. It's it's it's it's
for me,
that's the beauty
of podcasting.
I'm behind
on one of my shows, the podcasting 2
point o show. So I'm gonna be binge
listening to this thing on my flight back
on, like, the 4 episodes I'm behind on.
I'm gonna be binge listening,
you know, in the airplane.
I'll probably have to go back and relisten
twice because I'll probably fall asleep a few
times because I'm leaving it, like, you know,
late at night to fly on JL to
get back, and I'm stuck in Tokyo for
a while. But, anyway,
it it it is a
it's a different thing that content is there.
And Right. Is it timely? Some of it
is. Some of it's not. So this is
what we have to really
I I have no desire
for Rob for you to call me and
say, hey, Todd. The
the Cybertruck just blew up. We need to
go live right now. And I'd be like,
Rob, I'm Well, that's not our genre anyway.
So But, you know, that's that's the main
point is, Rob, I'm
I'm I'm having a beer.
I I That's why a lot of these
shows are not,
cohost shows. They're they're solo creators that are
that are just doing like a live live
talk show. It's the it's the Rob Greenlee
show is kind of what a lot of
these shows are. Right? And people will just
go live
whenever there's a breaking news story. I I
would have so much.
First of all, do they they don't have
a life, number 1. Number 2
Yeah. And number 2 I'm not saying you
don't have a light, Rob. You go live
on a planned schedule. So you you're not
tasting I do. I'm I'm living old school,
Todd. You're not tasting headlines.
I can't imagine having to live
like a news anchor. If you choose to
do that, you're gonna be wildly successful. No
problem. You're gonna you're if you're chasing headlines
and you go live the minute something happens,
great.
But
But you also have to know what you're
talking about too. You can't just bullshit people.
You
you have
to spend, you know, at least 5 minutes
doing a real research before you go live.
Right? Yeah. You have to dig into it
a little bit. David says, David De Silva
says happy New Year,
BB Bubble. This is the place to be
at, David,
to begin a wonderful year. I agree.
Man, I would take that opportunity.
You know? So, again, I I I think
it's really
all you know? Again, I think certain content
does well, but no one's gonna come on
here to listen to a storytelling
podcast.
No no one, you know
Yeah. I mean, what I mean You know,
that's I mean, I guess
it depends on how it's produced, Todd. Yeah.
Again.
Again, I
it I know a lot of that format
is a tough production. Right? It's not easy.
And
so I think there's
you know, this article was such that I'll
I will give Nick a little.
I gave him this much credit. It's pretty
good. It's pretty good. Right? That's a lot
to ask from you, Todd. I give him
any credit. Especially for me.
But I'll say it was it was it
was okay. It was it was a pretty
good written article. Yeah. Some of it made
sense.
But Well, in the end, he
I don't know if you went all the
way to the bottom, Todd, but he's
he he does bring it around to more
more of,
you know, your your position on it. But
it's,
it's just it's this,
shiny object
scenario that's going on right now that we've
had. Yeah. Right. I mean, I mean, we've
had this stuff before, but it's
it is a little bit more,
you know, it's
it's it's it's a little bit more of
the shiny thing. Right? It's the
it's the glitz. It's the and I see
this with the difference between lives. So like
what we're doing here,
I don't know that live in this format
does very well,
on these video platforms. What I see with
my own content that I make is when
I prerecord it and I do a bunch
of editing to it and I add a
bunch of sizzle and transitions and stuff like
that, they typically do a lot better.
Sure. But they also,
it really depends on the topic.
It really depends on the topic.
If if that topic
is top of mind with other people.
Yeah,
it's more likely to do better.
And I guess the algorithm has some way
to pick that up because
my numbers go way up when I have
a topic of a video that I did
that that really kind of matches with what
people are thinking right at that time.
Well,
Beauty Bible says, try it. Tell us a
story. Well, I'll tell you a little story.
Which part are you gonna tell a story
about? Well, I it's it's completely not related
to what we've been talking about, but I'll
tell us Okay.
Okay. Actually, I'll tell you something I learned.
So I'm still here in the Philippines, and
the Philippines is a heavy, heavy,
heavy, heavy Christian country.
Mostly Catholic.
Of course, if you get into
Mindanao and some of those places, a heavy
Muslim influence too. But Christmas here is like
they start celebrating Christmas, like, in September. I'm
not kidding. The mall decorations go up, and
you're hearing Christmas jingles from September to January
1st.
It's absolute
freaking insanity. I mean, they they they celebrate
Christmas.
So one would expect
in a predominantly Catholic
country that on Christmas Christmas, everything would be
closed.
In America, on Christmas,
predominantly everything is closed.
Something they open in the afternoon. It's not
as much as it used to be, but
everything here was wide open. Malls were open.
Restaurants were open. Everything was open. And I'm
like,
I'm
like, what what is this?
Then
in America,
New Year's, the bars are open.
It's this celebration time. It's time to party.
Right? Right. Everything's closed
here on New Year's. I mean, locked up
tighter than a drum. Not a bar one
open. And I'm like,
what the heck is going on here?
So it's anyway, there's your story. It's it's,
I'm still baffled by it, but
New Year's is when family comes together, has
dinners, and celebrates together.
Christmases where they all kinda just do their
own thing and go out and have, you
know, eat out in town and blah blah
blah blah blah blah. I I I'm It's
just I'm just
it's the opposite.
Now I know America is not as locked
down at Christmas time as it used to
be,
but
it's,
anyway, there's there's beauty bubble. There's your story.
Has nothing to do with our topic, though.
That's right. Nothing to do.
Well,
there's probably live streams from like,
you know, churches and stuff going on that
night on
Christmas Eve. But, yeah, you know, that's that's
what was going on. Or the Tabernacle
Choir or something. Right.
If if I was chasing the YouTuber algorithm,
I would be doing stories every day
on
what was happening
today.
Mhmm. But, again, some channels in YouTube are
not designed that way at all.
You know? But what I'm looking forward to
most right now is a guy that's got
a cabin out in the Canadian
wilderness, and this dude is a beast. He's
he's I don't know.
You know, I think about every episode he's
gonna die,
you know, from something he's done. But, you
know,
and it may not I mean, for a
lot of content,
categories or genres,
doing it like that really works. You know,
I was just watching
like, like a video, long form video
that was following,
a couple that was
living out in the amongst like 5 feet
of snow in a blow up cabin. Right?
You know? And and it just goes on
and on. All you do is watching them,
you know, create fire in a fireplace and
cook. Right? So,
but, you know, to date
Yeah. But to Dave's point, I probably fall
more into his category where I see clips
of something,
8 minute clips of it, and I'll watch
that. And I've never watched the full
full episode of a show.
And
what's a full episode of a show? Right?
People are smart. They pulled they said, okay.
The, you know, the 2 hours we talked
here was the 8 minutes. It was
really It was actually consumed.
Right. That's why it's so important, Todd. And
I've learned this here over the last year
or so, is that the first,
like the first one minute of any video
that you do on
youtube is critical
because
if you don't get to the point,
they're
getting to the point somewhere else. So they
leave, they leave. So
your, your tendency when you start your podcast
is to kind of talk about personal stuff
and all that stuff like that. That doesn't
work on YouTube. That's right. So you have
to get, you know, so when you put
in your cover art or your your thumbnail,
what the topic is, the audience is expecting
that in the first 30 seconds you're going
to be already diving into it. Yeah.
So,
so that's, that may also explain a little
bit of why maybe
the video that you're doing with your podcast
doesn't match with YouTube. Yeah. Because the first
5 or 6 minute is nothing is not
when it targeted to it. It's kind of
like what we did at the beginning of
this show
was, you know, I had put out there
in my metadata
and in my cover art,
or we were going to talk about a
particular topic. And but when we started, we
spent the first 10 minutes talking about something
else. Right? So so that may have impacted
how many people stuck around
to actually watch watch the video.
So I don't even title my stuff before
I go live.
Well, that's
that's
I hate to say, but that's SEO 101,
Todd.
Yeah. On on YouTube. I don't. I know
very few people watch live. So my goal
is later on, it's when they're going to
come catch it later. Well, and and then
also in the metadata,
we have new media show and geek new
central
in the name. So a person that's watching
this video doesn't know if it's geek news
central or new media show
unless they see our logos.
Yeah.
So it just depends on your approach. I
mean, I played around with all these different
formats, whether prerecorded
live,
with guests solo, you know, I didn't hear.
I just screwed myself.
It's a
but anyway, I mean, it's
Yeah. There's lots of differences between these two
platforms.
So,
Jeffrey says, try going to channel you'd rarely
see and hit the thumbs up a bunch
of times on that channel. You will see
that stuff on your feet. I never up
thumb ever anything. I watch on a television,
so I never thumbs up content at all.
You can't actually do that in the
You can. And the TV apps.
You can, but I don't do it.
There's a you can thumbs up, but I
never thumbs up content in
What what TV are you
using to to watch? I'm using I've got
a regular
Chrome.
It's it's you can you just up button
the dingleberry, and it's the Oh. Is there.
The Chrome? Chrome? Well, what it's whatever the
YouTube app is on televisions, they're all the
same. You can do a thumbs up on
content.
I just never do it. I can see
comments. I can see
I can see everything.
Okay. So you're playing this to a smart
TV that has the YouTube app on it?
Watch on a Okay. On an app or
my,
Jess said, so log logarithm, man. The thing
about logarithm, they have to be developed by
people. Yes. I agree.
Well, the yeah. Yeah. The algorithm does. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. But I would say over the
next couple of years, though, AI is gonna
be updating the algorithms
because they are gonna be the algorithms.
So,
AI is gonna be driving all this.
And and I think they already are.
That said, I think we have to
realize here that
those that are gonna go do video are
gonna go do video,
and we just need to keep,
making sure that
we're moving the bar. And, again, moving the
bar, it means that
Apple
and
and maybe this is why Spotify seeing success
is they're surfacing stuff,
whereas
Apple is not surfacing
content at all.
I think they're trying.
Todd, I think this whole metrics thing is
really gonna push the envelope on this.
I think there's so much
that's being made available through these
proprietary platforms now that the expectations are
increasing
on the part of the sponsors and advertisers
as well as the content creators. They're just
they see podcasting as like a black hole
of information.
There's nothing there.
I mean, I'm not saying there's nothing there,
but there's there's there's
it's
quite a bit
less. Well, the you know, it's because they
wanna remarket to you.
And
Well, they wanna know how far people are
listening to your content. It's what they're really
wanting. Because if if they have an ad
in
at 10 minutes into the program, they wanna
know how many people are actually still listening
to your show 10 minutes in your program.
Not dummies. They're backing that out in performance.
They're doing that on YouTube too. Yeah. That's
not enough anymore, Todd. That's the problem now
is that the expectations of increase has nothing.
I mean, it does have something to do
with performance, but
I'm not sure that's the only metric that
the people are looking at. I think that
that duration of consumption is also being considered
in
an ad placement now.
So, so if you
want to do a campaign now, you have
to
show your metrics on
on what the consumption is
of of each of your ad breaks.
And they will prioritize running
ads in a particular ad break because they
know that that's
that's why they all want to run and
premium.
You continue to talk to 10% of the
podcasters out there that are getting advertising.
The 90% are not.
What do you mean? I I continue to
talk to no. Well, again, you're saying that
this is all ad based. That definitely covers
10%. The changes that no. I'm saying all
the changes that are being pushed for are
being being pushed by
the monetization
prioritization
that's going on in the industry right now.
Well, for those that are monetizing, then they
have to figure that out. The other 90%
don't care.
Yeah.
But I think as we have seen mainstream
media move into podcasting, their expectations are moving
with it.
Well, again, for the 10% that are getting
advertising,
they're gonna have to deal with that. The
other 90%
don't have to worry.
Which means that that's gonna that that influence
is gonna pass down to everyone.
Well, what's gonna happen is is,
because of that, we'll never get the $3,000,000,000
or whatever we wanna get to. That's right.
No. And I that's the
that's the end of the line on this
one is
is that that is what's gonna hold back.
And I believe it's probably already been holding
back podcast revenue
on the advertising side is because
the brands are seeing a whole nother level
of data,
about their buys. That's why they're buying into
the big shows that they know that they're
going to get
a pretty much a guaranteed ROI
on. They're not branching out into other shows
as much because they there's just not a
deep set of metrics to know if they
work.
I don't know. I mean, it's
these are these are tough topics to talk
about. I mean,
in the podcasting space because it it doesn't
make the industry For those that are chasing
dollars.
It's Yeah. And increasingly, that's what
every pod new podcaster I talk to. That's
the number one question. How do I make
money? We don't hear that at all.
That's that does not I don't know what
to say, but
this article kind of
kind of Again, again, it I'm the one
that's dealing with the customers.
I know you are. If I'm not hearing
that.
But it could could be that the customers
that you're attracting are not prioritizing that.
Well, again,
what are my what are my primary biz
what are my primary categories of customers?
Audio podcasters, probably.
Well, they're no. They're
they're We're not really doing doing much with
businesses,
their news channels, their tech.
Right.
So,
you know, are they chasing advertising? Most of
them are not.
Right.
Let's see here. Do we have some money
come in? Let me look.
Speak of monetization. We got a 1,000 sass
from BR Happy.
Heck, yeah. V for v.
Yeah. That was a comment from the last
show.
1700 one set from BD Natsis. Have you
checked into Boomcast or is an option for
live streaming and recording?
No. I have not.
There was a good article.
Dave Jackson put up a good article on
Facebook about
the dilemma that we've been having with this
show on when I'm traveling
on all these platforms, Riverside's podcast, all these
platforms. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit
of everything, but
none of them have everything.
Yeah.
So
yeah. I would tend to agree. It's it's
a mixed bag right now, you know, on
on all these platforms.
So boom cast or we have to have
to look at boom cast.
But this article at the end that Nick
Qua wrote, and this is a quote directly
from the article says video is unlikely to
kill the audio podcast
sector,
but will continue to coexist
and shape the medians, the mediums trajectory
in hopefully complementary ways.
So
I think that's the that's the takeaway,
from what he wrote anyway. If if the
Apple team,
you know, starts paying a little more attention
to video,
that could help too
not making it
a second class citizen in the platform.
You know, I have full attention of coming
out with a new new option at Blueberry
for video, but, again, the demand has been
so low. I keep dropping it down on
the priority list.
Yeah. I guess.
We just don't have customers asking for it.
I guess all all the attention around videos
really at the end of the day is
really centered around what YouTube is doing.
Yeah. I think at the end of the
I mean, I was thinking about that the
other day about,
and I think we talked about it or
I did on my show last week. Podcast
tips. I talked about,
Spotify is podcasting efforts and podcasters need to
be aware
of
of of that platform.
We we had some interesting comments from the
last show,
you know, and I've seen other people start
to say, when when when will you wake
up
podcasters to what's going on?
You know, when will you wake up?
So To for Ned saying this about What
aspect of it, Todd, are you talking about?
Wake up to what? Wake up to Spotify
or Wake up to the fact that, you
know, Spotify's
not gonna be putting money in your pocket.
Yeah. To that extent. You know?
Ferdinand, I turned up my volume level a
little bit, so hopefully that helped.
Someone said the volume sounds low today.
So I upped my volume a bit.
Yeah. Apologize about that.
So in some ways,
really, I think at the end of the
day, the the the dilemma between audio and
video is really driven by
context of the content.
Certain content is going to lean lean itself.
Probably a little stronger on the video side
than other types of content.
And it depends on the preferences of the
creator too, you know? And,
but the influence of these big platforms, Todd
is,
you know, I don't think anybody can argue
with that.
No. Yeah. And if, you know, and if,
this, it could be the downfall of the
entire podcasting space.
Yeah. Well,
you know, Nick doesn't really in this article
address that question, Mark. I, I know James
Cridland has expressed that concern
publicly
as well
that, you know,
these platforms threaten the, the centralized monetization
fair
strategies that many companies have built and implemented,
invested lots of money in to create. And,
and once we get into a situation where
all of us have to upload directly to
these platforms, which is clearly the direction that
things are moving towards,
It's
I don't know what that future looks like,
unfortunately.
Well, Spotify is saying, you know, that they're
potentially will have an API at some point
to
submit video. But the problem is it's still
going to overwrite the audio.
Right? Yeah.
Right. Their, their priority is video
now going forward,
which is
interesting given
that they're a music platform primarily. Right?
And you saw YouTube as a video platform
prioritizing music. So they're both kind of moving
towards each other.
I just don't know that Spotify has really
any significant momentum on the video side.
That's,
that's kind of my observation. They do. They
claim they have significant, they want to, right?
Because it's very profitable and if they can
get that, that audience from them.
Right. Right. Exactly.
But I just, you know,
youtube is such a juggernaut out there that
I don't think there's anybody that is even
in the realm of competition with them.
Well,
here's the thing I hear. This is what
I'm hearing the where there is an opportunity.
Yeah.
Is in platforms
that don't censor.
Oh, right. Rumble and
And even they Who else?
Yeah. Even they,
to a point.
So I think if you
Yeah. I think it's
a If that non censorship thing is a
tough This is tougher this is where
there is a path forward for content creators.
In that,
if you are having content that is being
suppressed,
demonetized,
taken down,
What are you talking about? Take a lot
to have content taken down these days.
Mhmm.
We get copyright strikes on this show just
out of the blue, and we're not running
music because the algorithm thinks we're running music
sometimes, which is bizarre.
And it's like 18 minutes into the show
and I have to say there's no audio
here.
There are no No. There's no No music,
you mean? Right.
And,
I think
that there is a opportunity
for podcasting
to serve
those
shows
that are regularly being
suppressed
and demonetized. And,
yeah,
so whenever I hear
and my friend, it just happened yesterday.
I was in a chat group and someone
said, oh, I and and this was a
video that was put up on,
not LinkedIn,
but it's one of the pay services that's
for video.
They bought livestream.
What's the name of that video service?
For people
people that have
they they Vimeo?
Vimeo.
So private
a private group,
private video
put up,
nothing that was in the video was adult
in nature,
and they took the video down. So Oh.
So if you have a platform that is
a paid platform that you're paying for, and
they're still taking content down,
because some weasel in a chair
doesn't like
the content.
There needs to be a place for content
to live
that,
is is
will avoid sensors.
And as some weasel in a chair that
says, oh, I don't like this video.
My sensitivities have been hurt. I'm going to
remove it from the platform without any reason.
Gun content.
Well, this is being picked up by brand
safety algorithms now. Some gun
gun content, adult content.
You just
anything that this slightly
controversy,
that could cause some weasel.
Again, I'm using the word weasel,
broadly here because
they're the ones that are removing this content.
Someone that sensitivities are, you know, someone sensitivities
got hurt. I mean, it's amazing. You pay
for Vimeo, you think they would take videos
down and they're doing and again, the video
did not contain any adult content at all.
So
there is a
there is an opportunity
for some content to reside other places. And
I think that
is something that we will promote
is that we are a platform that is
basically
if you're being taken down somewhere else, so
long as you're not
killing someone or you're doing hate speech and
that kind of thing, come on.
Yeah. But what is hate speech?
So yeah. That's the problem. That's
so,
you know, we've clearly defined what we'll accept
and won't accept in terms of service. And
again,
I would say that
we're pretty I think most podcasting companies are
pretty open to a large majority of content
long as you're not invoking violence.
So there is a place then for this
content that is being suppressed
by
by these mainstream media companies.
So
so maybe that's where we
where we fit a niche.
And,
and then it's a retraining
of an audience that,
is being cut out of content that they
want to get access to.
Yeah. I mean,
what we saw over the last 6 months
was really driven based on
audiences having an interest in
kind of cutting edge controversial
content.
Right. And
I don't know that that that moderation and
stuff is really going to decline that much.
I think as the technology gets better, it's
going to be easier and easier to
scan video to scan the audio looking for
keywords. I mean, all these platforms are pulling
transcripts now, so
they have access to
every word or phrase that's used in this.
Any of this content, like even this this
show right now, we're streaming to all of
these big platforms
and I'm sure they're analyzing every word we
say. I'm sure.
Yeah. And if we say something that doesn't
fit
the models that have been built,
then there's a there's a flag room, you
know, thrown up and and it's true and
the contents driven down.
Right. It's, you know, it like Elon said,
you know, you can say whatever you want
to say, but there's no guarantee that there's
going to be anybody that actually sees
it because they don't need to be suppressed.
You know, doing a new show with a
tech show. There's stuff I cover there that
are,
you know, they're talking about embezzlement
and there's all kinds of words that are,
you know, that are surfaced that would would
probably
trigger some a logo somewhere.
So again, I think that,
the suppression units at YouTube and Spotify or
wherever else they belong and the AI giants
that are killing content,
then, you know,
what is podcasting? Well, podcasting in its traditional
sense is
a is a is a last bastion of
free speech.
It's a place where you can go and
not be suppressed and have your content
deplatformed,
then you still can have distribution.
And I think if we continue to
to remind people of that
Yeah. Then
when they get pissed off,
when I get the email, Todd,
you know, 3 of my videos on such
and such platform was taken down. What can
you do for me? I'm like, hey. Got
a solution for you, brother.
You know, come on. That was a podcast.
It's we've got it for you. We can
you know?
And, no, it's not free.
But, if you believe in your content and
you have an audience that's supporting you, few
donations here and there,
supporting the value of your content,
you can pay that that bill
and continue to talk about what you want
to talk about
and do video if you want to do
video. Right.
Now this article
from Nick, had one little historical warning in
it, which brings back
a little bit of the past that may
be reflect maybe,
but
let's talk about how, how the situation might
be different now. But,
back in the mid 2,000,
2010s
there was a push towards video and podcasting.
Right?
That was the pivot to video era is
what he calls it,
which led
in the article he said led to resource
misallocation
and platform driven failures.
So the monetization
models weren't built quite well back then around
video online.
Right? So a lot of these companies venture
back companies that were doing video podcasting back
in the early days of the medium invested
a lot in building,
you know, quality content, podcasts, video podcast content,
and a lot of them sold out,
and went out of business.
Let's look what's happened to Twitch.
Right. And so there is a history of
that happening here. I guess what we have
to say now is that this is a
different era
and
legacy media is not ruling over
the online media
space quite as much as it used to.
So
and a lot of those big media creators
and big media
producers or whatever are moving to the online
space. So we may be seeing kind of
a
a big historical shift,
that is different than those early days.
Well,
I I think that,
in the end,
consumers
are going to,
are going to decide.
I I think that's,
in the end, what will It's a generational
choice. Right? Yeah. What is the the
the youngest 2 generations? What are they choosing?
So That may be what the path is.
I know you've been saying that about
podcasting for a long time. People don't listen
to radio because the younger generation doesn't tune
into it anymore.
So Yeah.
So I think it's one of those situations
where,
I guess for a better word, we'll
we'll find out.
Time will tell.
Yeah. We will.
And we probably won't be here, but yeah.
Yeah. You know, and it's it's there is
not you know, I I I see it
in Blueberry's business.
It is not without challenges.
And,
you know, we're looking at everything and making
sure that we're,
you know, we can survive
the
the change to
the dichotomy of podcasting.
And if we're seeing it, others are seeing
it too. So
because there's, you know, I I
I think there's no one's talking about it,
but I think there is real risk out
there,
yeah, from a business sense,
in the podcasting space. So
Yeah.
Plan. You know, time will tell where that,
where that leads. And hopefully,
you know, the economy hasn't helped it either,
but I think we've seen this. I think
it's more than the economy at this point.
Yeah.
I thought it was interesting his comment, Nick
was comment about the ecosystem fracturing.
He says that the platform
specialization,
is is a
kind of a key driving point here. Podcasting
may be split into
sub ecosystems
and then he goes on to list YouTube,
Spotify home for video based mass appeal chat
casts.
Apple podcast is
supporting narrative
public radio style content.
Mhmm.
He's
showing his bias there when he says that.
I think overall he did a pretty good,
you know, did a pretty good piece.
So
yeah. So,
anyway
yeah.
Alright. So I think we should get out
of here. I've got another show to record.
You you Oh, you do? Yeah. I got
my regular show to record after this.
So I'll be back for everyone. And if
you wanna hang out a little later, probably
about an hour, I've got a meeting at
11.
A triple header going on here.
Yeah.
So,
but the next show,
might be Podfest
because I'm traveling.
Okay. I don't get back until,
like, when I arrive in Michigan will be
about the time we do this show on
Wednesday,
and I'm gonna just be I'm probably gonna
be a zombie unless I sleep on the
on the airplane well.
So, I'll I'll let you know if I'm
in a shape to do the show. We'd
have to do it Wednesday night if we're
gonna,
if we're gonna do it. So I'll I'll
let you know where my
my brain is if I can muster up.
And first of all, I gotta get the
studio turned on from Cold Iron.
So, yeah, it's been shut down for a
while. For two and a half months.
I'm sure that's gonna be fun. And we're
doing this show,
on stage at Podfest on the on 16th.
Who's gonna be joining us?
Right now I have confirmation from Rocky Thomas
is gonna be there with us. Oh, okay.
And then
there's one other gentleman that hasn't a 100%
confirmed yet, but he was trying to make
it. So
how's the
podcast academy?
Or the hall of fame? Hall of Fame.
Yeah. I'm sorry. It's not the podcast academy,
but yeah, yeah.
It's okay.
It's coming along. Okay. We're, we're pulling the,
the, the overall video production together, pulling all
the elements together and
all of the,
you know, all the pieces are coming together.
It should be together here,
you know,
within the week, it should be all buttoned
up and ready to go. Awesome.
Okay.
See if I can do this correctly here.
Let me find it.
Don't forget, you can go over on x@nmspodcastornewmediashow.com
and get subscribed to the show.
Of course, I'm geek news at g mail
dot com at Geek News on x and
at Geek News at Geek News dot chat
on,
Mastodon.
Rob?
Yeah. I'm on x as well. Again, the,
found at Rob Greenlee and
on Facebook
on LinkedIn.
Also on YouTube at Rob Greenlee as well.
So I have my own channel over there
with a bunch of different shows going on
there.
So
you can reach out to me via email
if you want rob,
dot greenleygmail.com.
Happy to hear from you and,
connect up. And if you're going to pod
Fest,
reach out and we'd love to meet you
there. So,
so can always catch the show again at
newmediashow.comforward/live.
That's where it resides besides all the other
places we restream to
on X and Rumble and
Facebook and Twitter. And, yeah, we've had a
good variety of people come in from a
variety of different areas today. So,
thanks for being here. And, Rob, we'll see
if I'm
not so jet lagged to do a show
next week at there at this time
versus 3 o'clock. So,
Okay. As David says, let's make great
podcasts this year, and let's make podcasting
great again.
Okay.
That's kinda dumb.
That's,
right.
Yeah. We just lost 50% of the audience.
Yeah. I think that I think there's a
a new acronym for that that we need
to come up with, Todd. Yeah. Probably not
probably not the best one.
Alright, everyone. Thanks for being here. We'll see
you next time. Bye bye.
Okay. Bye.