This is live talk with Dwayne Moore.
We're talking worship on a global scale.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to live talk. I'm Dwayne Moore. Um,
maybe a little bit more of a sedated version of me. Uh,
I'm still trying to get back in the swing of things after a, um,
a wonderful but long, uh, and frankly tiring, uh,
trip to Africa. Uh,
I've been there six weeks just shy of six weeks and, um,
got back this weekend and so had a few days to
recoup. And I'm about I'm about back to normal, I think, but, um,
I mean it's eight hours ahead there.
So my body right now tells me it's about time to, uh,
be shutting it down for the night. Well,
I'm recording this in midafternoon where I live in Alabama,
but in Kenya where I was just four days ago, uh,
it is time to go to bed.
And so my body still is a bit confused. Um,
but we're glad you've joined us for live talk wherever you may be. Uh,
we have people that watch as far away as Pakistan and other parts of Asia, uh,
via king television. So welcome.
We also have people that are listening by podcast in different parts of the
world. Thank God for technology that allows us this to happen.
We have people that are watching, uh,
on YouTube or perhaps on Facebook live.
And you may be a pastor or worship leader. You may be a, a Christian.
You may not be a Christian. You may be someone who doesn't claim to,
to know Jesus. You may not know him personally,
but you're interested in people like me that talk about Christianity
and talk about worship. And that's really what we do on this, on this podcast,
on this live talk show, we, we bring you guests that,
uh, are leaders in the church often will do that, or they, they are authors.
Um,
they may be business people who believe in Jesus
Christ, follow him with their lives,
but they also have leadership principles that anyone can apply and learn
from.
So wherever you are in the spectrum of that welcome,
please know that you are very welcome and we are glad that you joined us today.
We have a special guest with us named Josh ands. Josh, uh,
is a great friend. He's been a friend for, uh, several years now. Uh, uh,
I remember how his wife,
Deanna actually reached out to me via email while I was a worship pastor in
Louisville, Kentucky. And, uh, she emailed me a few times,
uh, just asking, is there any way that we,
that we can get together that, that I could actually, uh,
Skype in or zoom in as the case may be, and,
and talk to the Bible study group at their church that was
using my book, pure praise. And so they wanted the, you know,
the guy that wrote it to, to say a few words to, to their, their class,
which I was, was glad to do. If I have the time, I, I love those opportunities.
And I do those often.
I did not know from that simple gesture,
both from her and, and back back to them in,
in coming into their class, I did not know the friendship. It would lead to,
uh, as well as the great partnership of ministry. Uh,
as you will hear in this interview, um,
we've been able to work together for several occasions, uh,
doing several different, uh,
activities and conferences together and work together. And so, uh,
I'm excited to bring you Josh ands as a,
as a someone to learn from and leadership, uh, learn
not only leading in his home, um, in his church, but also in his home, uh,
and the humility he has, although he is a very, very strong, talented leader.
Um, he has a great dependence on the Lord. So you'll see all that.
You'll hear that in a few moments before we get to Josh today,
I want to tell you a little about the Africa
trip. If you'll indulge me to do that for a few moments. So we'll be,
we'll be back in a few moments with more live talk.
And I'm going to take a few minutes to talk about Africa and what all God
did there, and then we'll get to Josh's interview today.
We'll be right back with more live talk. Thanks.
You're listening to live.
Talk with Dwayne Moore international conversations on worship.
Hey, everybody, we are back with live talk, and I'm doing more. I as promised.
I wanna tell you about Africa. I wanna tell you about our, our tour there. Um,
it was incredible. And, and, and I, I gotta tell you that I'm still, uh, yes,
I'm tired physically, but oh, my, my spirit is soaring from how God, uh,
used next level worship and to, to make connections there,
uh, brought us together with some key key leaders, um,
got to pour into some wonderful, uh, Christians and, and believers in,
in the Lord,
and also to share our faith with those that didn't know the Lord we got to, um,
teach children the gospel teach. 'em about worship out in the villages in,
in Africa. Hey, there's a lot I could tell you,
but I think if we let you see it, it would be better. So here is, uh,
here is a quick overview in,
in pictures of what we just experienced in Africa, watch this
So you can see why I am beaming.
I am so grateful for all of our donors. Um,
many people pitched in to help support that effort that was
financially. Honestly,
it cost a lot of money to travel that many places and do that much
ministry packed that much in. And so, um,
we spent around $60,000, uh, uh,
which was, you know, a lot of money for our small organization.
It'd be a lot of money, I guess, for anyone, anybody. Um,
but you can't put a, a dollar figure on a soul, you know, and we,
we saw many and we, we're only not saying a number cause they're children.
We don't wanna, we wanna, we don't wanna say exact numbers. Although I,
I have an exact number in my mind, pretty close to an exact number.
I'm not gonna say it. Uh,
I'm just gonna say that many children came to know Christ.
We don't know a child's heart. There could have been more,
may have been a few less than I'm aware of, but, uh,
we know that many stepped forward saying they wanted to know Jesus as their
savior and Lord. Wow. And, um,
hats off to first Baptist church of Lexington, Tennessee,
to all of Baptist church in Pennsylvania. I'm in Pennsylvania. I don't know.
I said that Pensacola, Florida, uh, to Chris Mellon, who is in Pennsylvania and,
uh, Travis Bly and, uh, up in Syracuse, New York and, um,
just incredible team of people that came together from,
from different parts of the, of the country and the world, frankly. Uh,
I thank God for Mike suey, uh, who came from Ohio. Um,
thank God for, uh, Joyce swinger who came from Virginia. And I,
I'm sure I'm gonna leasing people out of our start naming and all these,
but these are all people from that are part of our team,
our community at next step worship. And they came together, uh, to help us, um,
in this six week adventure now, not all of 'em came for that whole time.
We brought in a team for Zambia, for example,
and then they went back home and then if we had another team come in,
so I would, what I would do, I would go to one place and,
and work with one team. And then I would fly down to another country and meet,
meet up with another team, Henry Pretorius, for example, who is, uh,
on our team in South Africa and Mitchell Lawrence and
his wife cattle and, and,
and this phenomenal team got us building around next level worship in
South Africa, got to do that, got to go see what God's doing, uh,
on, on the, the Western Cape, uh,
in Cape town and never been there before. So got to experience that.
And then we flew from there to, um, uh,
Zimbabwe and in Zimbabwe, we, uh,
got to meet with our team. We have a, a, a, a,
a strong team there next up worship team, uh, led by, uh,
our director there, Linda Shia. And, uh, we love her and her husband,
John, and got spending time with them and, and, and,
and just pour into our team there. But also we got to do, uh,
some incredible conferences that were packed out. In fact,
they were standing outside. Uh, it was so,
so overwhelmingly successful and that's thanks and great part
to our team there that did a, did the groundwork before we arrived.
And Donald katala our Africa director. And I, uh,
went to Zimbabwe together and got to enjoy that time. And then we flew to Kenya.
And in Kenya,
we had another us team that joined us as well as from other countries,
Ethiopia and other places. And, uh, we had, um, another awesome day,
uh, um, awesome week.
It began with an awesome day as we got to meet up with each other. And, and,
and, and, and it's always good to see our team.
And then it led to this phenomenal, phenomenal ministry together. Once again,
pouring into worship leaders and pastors that came from many parts of Kenya and
other countries, and also going out with, with the worship Bible school team,
as you saw in the video, we showed you and, and going into villages,
teaching children about worship in the gospel and, and many,
I think 99% of the children that they worked with there,
our team that came from the United States worked with
in Kenya, were Muslim children, Muslim children. And, uh,
they were able to go into these Muslim Muslim villages and share Jesus
Christ with them. And knowing that those PA those children,
the songs they learned the Bible versus they learned the truths.
They learned about Jesus Christ. They would take back to their families.
This is the ministry of next step worship.
Then I'm so grateful to be a part of it. I never wanna take it for granted.
God meets our needs. He's he keeps providing for us financially. I, I mean,
it takes a lot of money to do what we're doing, but God always provides.
He's just so incredibly faithful.
One of the things we got to do while we were there,
it was the very last thing we did while we were in on this long six week tour.
Um, uh, it, it happened in Nairobi Kenya. Um,
while I was there in may back, back in may, I was in Naro in Kenya,
in the country of Kenya. We were traveling, traveling from, uh, city to city,
doing conferences, as we often do. And, uh,
the Lord coordinated it. He did it all. We had nothing to do with it,
other than just being faithful and just trying to walk the trail. And, uh,
some of the very places we were in, uh,
with some of the leaders in these churches that were hosting us in conferences.
I didn't know it. I no did,
but they were on the board of directors for the evangelical Alliance of Kenya.
Again, I didn't know this, and they didn't mention it, but I'm sitting with, uh,
the president of the Baptist convention of Kenya.
I'm doing dinner with, with, with Dr. Steven and ADA,
and he gets a phone call. This happened truth. He gets a phone call.
This is back in may. And it, and, and I'm thinking, well, he is a busy man.
He's an important man. He's got a lot going on. Someone needs to talk to him.
I didn't think anything about it.
I just sat there silently while he was speaking on the phone.
But within a minute, he handed his cell phone to me. And he said,
this call is for you. For me,
I'm thinking who would call me via you?
It was the general secretary for the evangelical Alliance of Kenya.
I didn't know that Dr.
Steven was act is actually on their board of directors.
And so Steven had told the general secretary,
his name is Nelson about us, and about next level worship. So,
so the general secretary wanted to meet up with me and,
and, and have a conversation which we met up at, at, at our hotel. My hotel,
one thing led to another, and we, you know, really saw eye eye to eye.
And he said, this is what we've been praying for in this country, our country,
our churches need to learn about worship.
They need to learn about prayer and what you're offering could help us.
I was okay.
So he invited us to do a conference when we came back in August,
which we did. So that's why we stayed a,
a couple of days longer than we would've normally stayed a few days longer.
And we went over back to Nairobi and we did a conference and we did a conference
with, um, it wasn't a large room. I mean the only 20 people there,
but, but y'all, it was the movers and shakers, so to speak, it, it,
it was a room full of top key leaders
among the evangelical Alliance of Kenya. And,
uh, we just shared our heart, shared some, um, burden, shared, uh,
our message about prayer and about worship Donald Catal. And I, uh,
both spoken at the end of that meeting just after a few hours time,
one gentleman stood up, turned out. I didn't know it,
but later I found out that he he's on the board of directors for E AKs.
It's called, uh, and, uh,
he stood up and he said to everybody, he said, I, I believe that God is in this.
We, if for one wanna partner with this ministry next up worship.
And so they made it official.
They gave us an official invitation to come and partner with the
evangelical Alliance of Kenya to reach out into their churches. And, and,
and y'all, they've got 40,000 churches that,
that are part of this organization across the country of Kenya and every county
of Kenya. They've got churches.
And they want us to go in and teach these pastors and these leaders about true
worship, about a biblical prayer. And I'm, ,
I'm so humble because I I'm learning myself. ,
there's so much I need to learn, you know,
but we're learning together in God's word. He's who teaches us,
pull us, walk his trail, just no telling what God will do. Amen.
So that's what I wanna share with you,
and thank you for your prayers and thank you for your support. Many of you, uh,
give financially you, you pray for us.
You're a part of our prayer partners list. Uh,
and so you receive a monthly prayer partners letter from us. Thank you for that.
And if you don't, you please sign up, send us a message and, uh, just say,
Hey, we'd love to I to tell, tell us, Hey, I wanna be a prayer partner.
I wanna be a partner of next step worship. We'll get you signed up for that. Uh,
you can email us at office next level, worship.com office, next level,
worship.com. Let us know that you wanna be a prayer partner.
Maybe you wanted to be a financial partner,
whether you can give a few dollars or a hundred dollars.
We're we thank God for anything. We're grateful for whatever you can give,
but this is the ministry of next step worship. I wanna take a few minutes and,
and this updates you we're so grateful for what God's doing.
I'll be going to Bangladesh later this year, been invited to be a,
a keynote speaker at a large conference there,
and just see what God's doing in Bangladesh. And, and,
and we're about to do a student praise gathering, uh,
with students from multiple countries and multiple states and university
students. Um, it's exciting. And it's, uh,
we're thank God for the team of people around us that help all this come
together. Cuz I could not pull all this off alone. So thank you for,
for joining us again. I, I,
I appreciate your time and please let us know how we can pray for you.
Let us know how our ministry can help you check out our resources,
check out the things that we offer on our website at next level, worship.com.
So as promised,
we'll be back in a few moments and you'll hear from my dear friend,
Josh Anders,
who is the worship pastor at the point church in Fort Wayne,
Indiana. We'll be right back.
Live talk with Dwayne Moore,
biblical worship perspective.
Hey everybody, welcome back to live talk. And uh,
today is pretty special day for me. One of my dear friends,
Josh Anders is here. Hi Josh.
What's up Dwayne? .
How are you doing.
Man? In, in live talk nation? .
No,
we called it live talk because it originally supposed to really truly been live.
But every time we tried it live, it something went wrong. You know,
we also broadcast in other nations and even in Pakistan and no one ever,
we never could coordinate all that too. Well. So now it's prerecorded live.
Does that really count? I don't know.
I mean, yeah, it.
Sort is, right.
It, it, it is live as we are doing it. So it's.
Live right now and this is not scripted now. Right? Not scripted.
I know listening to us,
you may feel like it's very formal and we're reading every thing, but no,
it's totally off the cuff.
oh, I've learned a lot about this cuz uh, we recently started a,
we recently started a podcast here and uh, no. Okay. Yeah. I'm not,
I'm not in the podcast, but my wife,
our youth pastor and our, one of our teaching pastors are a part of it and it's,
it's been really fun. I've learned a lot about podcasting,
so I appreciate what you.
Do. Well, you do a good job. I, I, I saw part of one. I've been,
I've been gone most of that time. You've been doing that, but I did.
I talked a little bit and it looked like you guys have taken it really
seriously. You, you, you did some homework before you started looks good.
we're we're just trying to get up there. Like you D that's all.
Oh, well.
That.
That would not be difficult too.
I'm think I thank God for Barry behind the scenes. Uh, putting it all together.
Cuz if I didn't have somebody like that, I wouldn't be able to do this,
but you absolutely. You need somebody working behind the scenes to.
Absolutely pull.
Everything together. And he, he does anything from reach out, you know,
he connected with you and scheduled it. And, and, and,
and I don't think in this case,
because I was gone the whole time I've been in Africa.
That's another whole story. But, uh, anyway, uh,
I don't think we ever came up with a topic,
but typically with people we don't know as well as you we'll, you know,
Barry will figure out the topic in advance. Yeah. He said, what about Josh? Ah,
Josh and I know each other, we can just shoot.
We can just shoot from the hip and it'll.
Be breeze. It'll.
Be I sort to say, it'll be great. That remains to be seen,
but I believe at least. Oh, it'll be very good.
So we're praying for great. Good.
I hear that.
But uh, yeah, man. Well, thanks for giving us some time. Uh, it, yeah.
You.
Got a lot going on. Uh, you were telling me before recording started,
this is probably one of the busiest weeks of a busy life for you,
but yet.
It's yeah, it's pretty busy. A lot. A lot is converging at the same time.
Yeah. This week. And uh, well, I mean, re recently this year,
things have been busier than normal for me and our ministry and uh, but yeah,
personally and professionally, this is, it's a, it's a tough week. I, I,
um,
started teaching on a rotation at our church this year
and there were events that led into that, which we, we can get into if you want.
But I started teaching on a rotation, um,
teaching wasn't something I'd done a lot. In fact,
probably the most formal teaching I started doing was with next level worship.
Yeah. So you did, you've done some teaching with us is, was wonderful, but.
Yeah, , I've,
I've always felt the most inadequate about anything I do when it comes to just
speaking with a purpose. Cause yeah, I can speak off the cuff. Yeah.
I can fill a lot of time, but speaking with a purpose and,
and making sure that there's relevant application is something that's okay.
That's a newer, like to be in a more formal format for me. Yeah.
Um, it's very different than me leading worship and,
and God laying something in my heart in the moment and just sharing it between a
worship song. Like it's, it.
Is very different. Yes. I know that.
And I, you know, I've learned a lot from you and others and, and,
and my former pastor and just yep. Just learned a lot. And so,
um, this is one of those weeks where, uh,
I'm preparing a message and uh, we're in the book of mark right now.
And so I get the privilege of mark chapter 15, which is the crucifixion.
And, um, and so I almost feel like they, they gave me the hard,
hard ones on purpose before this, I spoke on the, the fig tree.
And then before the, yeah. And before that was the, uh,
when Jesus sent the demons in the pig.
So it's almost like if we have something that's really difficult to explain and
talk about, we're gonna give it to Josh. And so, uh, no,
it's just the way it fell. But, uh, so yeah, this week I'm preparing for that.
So we don't, I don't actually deliver the message this Sunday.
What we do here at the point is we record our broadcast service.
It's kinda like we're doing now. Yeah. Yeah. Just like this,
this podcast right here, it's simulated live, right? Like it's live,
it's unedited and then you put it out. Well, for us, we record our worship.
We record our messages. Mm-hmm in advance. Um, and then,
so whatever we record this week will be, and this is the week, uh,
coming into the September 11th, um,
will actually be the online service for the 18th.
So I record it this week and then I deliver it live a week from Sunday.
Okay.
Does that make sense at all? So.
No, really. I'm trying to understand it cuz I, you know, uh,
you've explained this to me before, but so the first people to, to get,
to hear it and see it are who online or church.
It's it's simultaneous. So.
It happens same time. Okay.
Right. I'll record it tomorrow. And then with the worship and all that,
they do all the post editing and mixing and all that stuff. Yeah. Uh,
put it all together and then it will broadcast a week from this Sunday,
which is actually when I deliver it live.
Okay. If that makes sense. Well, that makes a lot of sense, actually.
That makes lot. Yeah. Like.
So it actually, it actually gets put out at the same time. It's just,
I've done the work way in advance. Oh, okay.
Well that, that's a discipline. Isn't it. To do it in advance.
What a concept I'm such a procrastinator. You know, that, that sounds scary,
but it's good if you get it in.
No, I am too Dwayne. And lemme tell you it's been, it's been great.
The process has been great. Cause.
It's a good discipline.
Yeah. I can prepare the message. I can record it. And then I,
I have have like a week and a half for it to kind of simmer in my heart.
And like usually by the time it gets to me in person it's morphed and evolved
even more and has taken on like a, a new life.
So it's the same, but different.
. I do understand that. And um, I say I am a procrastinator. I,
I, I actually reject that in Jesus name.
I used to be but you don't play me. I'm not gonna,
I'm not gonna own that identity anymore. Uh,
I have actually become much more proactive in thinking ahead,
thank God by his grace. But, but I know what you're saying. Um,
when you let it simmer, um,
things can gel in a way that's and boy, by the time it comes out of you, it's,
it feels very fresh, but also well prepared, you know? So yeah.
Kinda an so yeah. So, so I've got, I've got that.
My, um, it just so happens that my music director, um,
I've given him the week off and it just happens to be this week,
which means I'm stepping in for him at the same time.
On.
You. Yeah. And then, and then, so on some personal notes, I've just my,
my mom who's, her health has been failing she's she's in the hospital right now.
So it's just a lot of things. And one of our,
my fellow pastors was in my office earlier and he just said, you know,
it never fails that when the hardest weeks come it's like everything's coming at
you at once. So yeah. So.
Well, and that, even before we started the recording, you know, I, I said,
do you do, do we need to wait till a different time? Cause you know,
you told me your moms in the hospital, you said, Deanna,
your wife is they're with her. Uh everything's okay for the moment. But uh,
but you know, things could change, but, but you know,
thank you again for giving us the time. But what I appreciate about you is you,
you, you keep your commitments, you,
you you've always been that way and you just follow through really well. And um,
I think what you've done there at the church, what God has done through you and,
and through Deanna and your family, uh, is amazing. And so, you know,
wanna say that to you and, and, and tell you that today,
I was hoping part of what we could talk about is,
is your journey there at the point mm-hmm , uh, and, um, you know,
I think people would love to hear that. It's an interesting story to me. Uh,
I remember when you,
when we first got to know each other and you were telling me on the phone, then,
uh, I, I remember I was standing in a coffee shop in Jeffersonville,
Indiana when I was talking to you for the first real conversation.
Mm-hmm and I was amazed at, at,
at just how God brought you to that church. You explained that to me some,
and now hearing how it's come to be now that you're even speaking,
you're getting, getting out opportunities. It's all clearly to me, man,
standing from the outside, looking in, I know you're busy, you're just kind of,
kind of stay afloat right now. But I think it's,
I just see it's God's hand on you is what, I just wanna say that.
So would you mind unpacking some of that for us? Uh,
I just kind of put you on the spot here, but yeah, I'd love to hear your story.
Well, it's interesting about you asking that, is that,
that like my journey with next live of worship began before the point,
like I was using your resources at my last church,
our choir, you know, I, I would buy, uh, the book, pure praise, pure praise,
and the first edition and I would, I was back in the first edition it,
but we would use it to just equip our team and train them. And so I, I,
I knew you from a,
from an author standpoint and didn't really have that relationship, but yeah.
So at that last church, which was in Tennessee, okay.
Knoxville, wasn't it around Knoxville.
Knoxville, Tennessee. And, uh,
it was just came a time for a change. You know,
there was a change that was needed and, um, we were praying, you know,
for the next steps. And, um, you know, as often as this happens,
you know, it wasn't always in my timing, but it was in God's timing. And,
um,
one of my best friends who I went to college with actually had the privilege of,
we got, we actually, uh, was able to lead him to the Lord, uh,
in college.
His name was Joe and we've just stayed best friends ever since.
And, um, and so we,
he moved to Fort Wayne after he graduated. And then I stayed,
I guess at the time in Tennessee.
And there was a time where he said, Hey, listen,
I I'd come to visit him. I'd been to his church, everything like that. And,
uh, didn't think anything of it. And then there came a time where he said, Hey,
he said our worship pastors moving, he's resigning,
you should put in your resume. And I was just like, in my mind, I'm thinking,
there's no way that they'll think I'm a fit for this church. I,
I just didn't believe that in myself. And, and he said, well, you know,
they need an interim.
So even if you just came for like a certain amount of time,
and of course I, at the time I had, uh, a wife and three kids, and,
but there was something in this moment in this conversation that God just was
speaking in my heart saying, pursue this as wild and as crazy. And as it,
as much as it didn't make sense to like move my entire family to Indiana for a
short term commitment, like I knew without a shot out a doubt,
I was supposed to do it. Like there was no. Yeah. It was just like,
it was,
I'm sure it was a combination of what was going on in our lives at the moment
verse. And also knowing that God was,
was tearing away the nest and that we were supposed to move on and praying for
those opportunities. And, um, so I interviewed, uh,
I was able to secure the, the interim position I came.
They were very honest and very upfront with me at first and said, you know,
this doesn't mean that you're going to be the permanent person.
We're doing a nationwide search. We got a search firm. So, you know, please,
please, we just wanna be very clear that we're not promising that, you know,
you're welcome to throw your hat in her hand. I was like, I was like, you know,
I'd gotten to know the pastor, uh, his name was Ray over the phone.
And I knew from our conversations that he was the type of leader
that I'd been longing to be on that. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
we aligned in a lot of different ways,
the church aligned with what I was looking for in a church. And, um,
and so I just trust the Lord and, and my thought was,
I didn't think I didn't have the confidence that I'd be the person either.
And in my mind, Dwayne, I was praying, you know,
if, if we do go for six months and then we have to find another place,
it'll be worth it because I believe I'll learn so much.
That.
Leadership that I know it's crazy.
That's amazing to me, .
It doesn't make sense. Well.
And, and which I, I want to say,
this is why I wanna interject about now in the conversation on the phone while I
was standing in Jefferson, Indiana, I was like, who is this guy?
Because what I heard you say, and I hear you say again, yeah.
I didn't know if you would get to stay. You just went, you uprooted,
not from across the city across,
but across several states.
States. Yeah.
And you uprooted your family, not even knowing if you'd be, be there long.
I think that's amazing, bro.
That that's yeah, yeah.
That's got.
It. It is. It had to be. And the fact that my wife was on board,
she had a piece about it. That was a huge,
huge green flag for me. Right. And so we came,
we moved our three children the day after Christmas, 2013. Um,
I started my role here. I learned and grew a whole lot.
Um, there was just so many things that,
that were expected and,
and just a level of professionalism and also ministry and
well, the, the search process was still ongoing while I was here.
so that could be a little awkward. Right. You know,
you're serving and then my wife is starting to really love it here. She's like,
oh no, you know, I don't wanna move. And I'm thinking, okay,
let's keep our expectations real, you know.
Have choice might have to move. Right. That's word that,
imagine everyone listening to this conversation right now,
imagine being in this position. Wow.
Yeah. It's wild. And,
and the great thing is that leadership was so transparent with me.
They would tell me now, listen, we, here's where we are in the process.
We've narrowed it down to these people. We're gonna start bringing them in.
You know, we're willing to like send you and Deanna, you know,
Chicago is just a few hours. We'll send you for a weekend away.
So it's not awkward. You're not here while they're campaigning, you know?
And so it was,
they were just very transparent and time went on and they never brought anyone
in. They talked about it, but no one ever came in and it was just like,
it was weird. And it gone down to the last couple people.
And these people are like a couple of them. I know. And they're well,
well known. I mean, uh,
worship pastors are churches of thousands and thousands of thousands.
And I was just like, you know, I'm really happy for, for,
who's gonna come in here.
And I remember one day I was sitting across from my pastor and he said, Josh,
he said, we feel like we've come to a decision.
And I just wanted to have a conversation with you and let you know.
And of course I'm like, I'm, I'm preparing myself, you know, I'm like, okay,
okay. You know, be humble. Like, like what, God's got a plan.
And he said, he said, you know,
when we went out and we had the search firm looking for someone,
they brought us everything we were looking for.
But what we didn't realize was the target moved.
And you were the reason for that,
because we didn't realize that we weren't looking for a, a worship leader,
uh, someone out front singing,
but we were what we needed a pastor and you brought that and we would love,
oh my goodness. Yeah. And he would like, he would like, we, we, we,
we would love for you to stay. Wow. And I was just,
I remember just immediately just started crying. I was like, there's,
this is not happening. This is not. Yeah. And to say that, you know, just,
and not about me, but it was just,
I just was pouring out what God was pouring into me, pouring what he learned.
Well,
I had learned from him and through others and through pure praise about worship
and,
and how to lead people and equip people and care for your team and all these
things in your church. And, and so, you know,
we put down roots and it's been nine years almost, and we're still here.
So yeah.
A story.
And still growing by the way. Um.
Well you are, I mean, learning you'll being stretched.
Oh, my word is.
Right. He was a wonderful pastor. And, you know, he, he felt led to, to, to,
to not retire. Exactly. I know.
He is. Yeah, no, he retired. Yeah. He.
Retired. I don't, if it's official or not, I didn't know,
but I wouldn't put words in anyone's mouth, but anyway, he's not,
there is the point, a very healthy situation. I mean, it's a great church.
It's really, yeah. Multi growing, uh, congregation.
Yeah. Very diverse. We, you know, it wasn't always that way,
but we started praying intentionally for diversity. We were like, you know,
does our church reflect our community? Yeah. And if it doesn't,
then we're missing something. We, if we're gonna reach our community,
we must reflect our community. And so,
and so we started praying for diversity that we would have our eyes open in that
we would be a welcoming place for all people. And, you know,
no matter what they look like, right.
And man did God bless those prayers.
And we've just become a very diverse church, uh, age wise,
race wise, you know, socioeconomically, you know, we,
it's just, it's incredible.
And just to see how God's brought it all together is amazing. And yeah.
You know, our pastor retired and it was, it was a very, uh,
you know, I was conflicted at the time because he is such, has been such a,
a great leader and pastor to me, but I had to realize that, you know,
at some point we all move on to the next thing. Right. ,
we're all interims in a sense,
someone came before us and someone will come after us. So it's like, yeah.
And so I just had to realize that that time was now. And, uh,
so it took me a while to come to terms, but he did. And,
and that's what led me to being asked to be on the teaching team because we're
in an interim process right now. And, uh,
so four of us are rotating speaking every week while we're searching for a new
lead pastor.
Okay.
Now that's what I wanted to dig into a little bit more now that you led us up to
the present day.
Yeah. Four.
Of you are rotating. Is that now in my mind,
my I'm thinking of that once a month or is it, or is it,
is it nice and tidy like that or.
Yeah, so there's four of us. And so it averages like once a month, you know,
some may, depending on our schedules and people's availability, you know,
some may do more than once a month. Um, it's not necessarily like a, okay,
it's.
Not set stone, but that's generally.
Yeah. It's not like a clockwise rotation where here's Caleb, here's Ty,
here's Josh. Okay. It's like, we looked at a teaching calendar and we said,
when, when are we able to fill, fill these?
And we just went through the rest of the year and just filled those spots. And.
Can I ask a very practical question for a, a leader in,
in if they were planning like this, uh, some churches, um,
I've noticed avoid announcing who will be that next preacher mm-hmm
they I'm sure they have reasons for that. What do you guys do?
Do you, do you let your folks know? Or do they just kind of come in and see who,
who who's there preaching in that.
Day? Yeah, our,
we don't really project who's coming up next. Okay.
Like who's teaching next. If that's what you mean. I.
I, I do mean that, is it predictable? That's what I'm meant. So.
There, there, there is a hack if you're savvy, uh . We, we,
uh, we post, uh,
an announcement for our broadcast service towards the end of the week.
And if you pay attention to that, you'll see who's speaking that week. But,
but you know, apart from that, we're not like, yeah. In the me, in the service,
we're not like, and next week is Josh, you know, it's not like that. Okay.
Well, you can see why I might be asking. I mean,
I I've read and I've heard I've never been in this situation,
but I've heard that some do that because they don't want people to come only for
certain speakers. That's true. I don't even know if that would really happen.
Yeah. It.
Happens. I've heard that. I've heard that that's a, a reason people,
some churches don't announce it.
Oh, no. I guarantee that happens. I, I mean, it was natural when,
when Ray was here and he would speak, you know,
42 Sundays a year, whenever he wasn't here,
you would see a dip, you know, I mean saw, but yes.
Definitely. That's obvi you know, it's definitely that way with the main pastor,
but now that you've got four and I just wondered, do you see that same? Yeah.
No, it's, uh, not really. It's been pretty steady. Okay. In fact,
interestingly enough, we've been growing through this process.
Okay. Church.
Our church is growing.
It's wild. Wow. That, that is, um, well, again,
I think that speaks to the health of the church already. And the,
and the vision was bigger than a person.
And I don't know how you guys pull that off. I mean,
humanly speaking that seems very difficult to pull.
Off. It is very difficult because I think the larger church
becomes the more the focus is put on who the pastor is. Mm-hmm .
And, um, I think one thing this process has taught me was Ray
was always the person who didn't want to be out front, you know, um,
he would do what he needed to do, but as far as just like,
he never wanted to be the face of the church.
And so he equipped our team to be very strong. In fact, yeah.
That's one of the reasons why he said he was like,
I felt good about the timing because I looked,
he went to Africa for a couple weeks to Kenya earlier this year and when he came
back and he was just like, man, this, everything is just like,
if I hadn't left and it was a good sign for him. Yes. That's.
A good sign. Yeah.
It was a good sign for him that, that, you know,
the team is strong enough to move on. And, and I don't know, Dwayne, I it's,
it's been caught, I don't want to go down a rabbit trail, but like,
you know, we're hearing a lot from like these celebrity pastors of just things
happening and, you know, unfortunately we're all human, but just,
it just seems like I'm hearing something new every day of someone well known
someone I respected and it almost makes me think,
do we elevate our pastors too much?
You.
Know? Well, I, I, I mean, possibly so I mean, certainly I,
that's always a possibility. I think we also, uh,
allow them to be isolated too much.
Yes. Um.
So elevate and isolate, I think we're not careful. And, and,
and what I mean by that is they, they, uh,
for whatever reason began to lack accountability.
And I think anytime we do any of us, that can be very dangerous.
Yeah. Yep. Very dangerous.
But it's definitely put into perspective the strength of having multiple people,
because, you know, even when some people found out about the news, they were,
you know, of him leaving. They were just so upset because they, they had,
in this mind, their picture was the point equal our pastor and it,
the point doesn't equal our P it equals all of us. And, um,
and so we're seeing that kind of, you know,
inadvertently come to fruition during this transition time where it is
about God and, and, and he, it is all of us together.
And so there's a, there's a huge team mentality right now. big time,
which.
Is awesome. And so in, you know, going forward, you said until that person,
yeah. Uh, God reveals that person. You find that person, um,
you think that's you, no one can predict, but I mean, could that be months?
Yeah. That's what we've been told. We actually.
You know, since our, our rush about it, no, no, you don't need to be in a hurry.
It sounds like.
We're not, we're definitely not rushing into it. We, we, you know,
our pastor was a founding pastor, you know,
our church actually this Sunday on the 11th turned 17 years old. So like,
you know, it's an even bigger, uh, factor is that he was founding pastor,
not so, you know, we're certainly not rushing into finding a new pastor,
but we are searching and we are doing our due diligence. In fact,
we've partnered with a search firm. Who's helping us, you know,
on a national scale to, to, to look outward, you know, as,
as, as well as inward looking outward and seeing, you know,
who fits the DNA of the point, the best, you know,
who fits the model of a leader that we're, we're looking for to take us,
you know, in the next 10 years or more. So it's like, um,
so that's what we're, we're in the middle of the process. And we,
we keep the congregation updated.
Like every couple weeks we give an update on how the search is going, what,
what we're doing in this time, we have a search team, you know,
so that's helping the process, um,
along with the search firm. So yeah, it,
they say it could take six to nine months in,
in this climate where if you, I don't know,
maybe you got some of y'all out there have heard this, the term,
the great resignation that's taking place right now, where people who are,
it is just, these leaders are just resigning, left and right. Are retiring left,
and right.
They're retiring a lot of.
Yeah. Just because of the population and like, and the demographic. And,
and so it's leaving these giant holes and it's just,
they said it could take longer because, you know, it's the same in ministry,
not just in the professional world and or in the secular world. I mean, so.
Yeah. Well, meanwhile, you, you got a strong thing going there,
man. And, um, yeah, I love, I love hearing your stories.
And so I, I, I wanted, I wanted also, you know,
take a little time and tell us, you know,
how are you balancing all this? I mean, you, you.
That's a.
Good question, great family, by the way. I mean, you have this, uh, awesome,
talented family, and then you've also got, now, you know,
you got this worship ministry. That's that just,
I think it rivals any of 'em really.
And now you're speaking and I know that takes hours of preparation.
So talk to us about how you, how do you do that all?
Well, in reality, I think it's just the Providence of God because.
Okay.
The longer I've been somewhere,
one thing that Ray always challenged us with is like, you know, as a leader,
you should be putting something down and picking up something new, you know,
a lot.
And the putting down is a lot of times equipping others and
delegating and,
and helping to entrust others with things that maybe that you don't
just have to do yourself. And then if you're,
if you're putting things down in that sense,
then you should be picking up something else,
constantly be learning and growing and stretching herself and going deeper.
And, and not only what you already do, but you know, some new things.
And so I've always kind of been in the habit of that and, um,
you know, kind of the way, you know,
how it is a lot of times in the church world where you,
you kind of pick up other responsibilities along the way.
And so I picked up some administrative duties here and, um,
and so as, as I've grown and as the years have gone by, but, um,
but I think that that's, that foundation has helped me to be like, okay,
it's just another picking up of something. It's another stretching of myself.
It's another growing. It's another opportunity,
but it would not have happened if
I hadn't been encouraged. And I hadn't been, uh,
equipping my team as well, along the way, for sure. You know,
the fact that I can, you know,
I can step away from the worship team, uh,
per se, uh, about two weeks. So whenever I speak,
it takes me out because of everything I have to do leading up to,
it takes me out about two Sundays from the worship team.
And so that's like half that's like half a month. Right.
And so if it wasn't for the strength of the,
kind of the same thing with Ray and, and our team,
or our senior staff and pastoral staff and, and support staff,
you know, if it wasn't for the strength of the team,
there'd be no way if I hadn't have done the due diligence that I had been
encouraged by my leadership to do early on by equipping leaders on my team and
growing the team and like doing all,
there's no way right now I could have stepped into these
things that,
that God has opened up the door for and the needs that I could step into and be
like, yes, I can, I can help with that. Yeah. And it's all because,
and I, that's why I said, it's the Providence of God, cuz God knew,
obviously he knew down the road what was happening. Yeah. And he knew,
he know,
he knew why it's important to do those things first,
uh, to prepare, you know, for that, for those days. So,
uh, so the, the,
I couldn't do it without the team I had without my music director and,
and technical arts teams and the volunteers, no way. Um,
I couldn't do it without a supportive family for sure. Yeah. Um,
and balance like I, I choose balance and it's something that's always been
allowed for me to have freedom to for that life work balance.
And so I, I say no to a lot of things and then,
but my family get a lot of yeses now, so , you know,
so it brings, it brings balance and you know,
that's really, that's how, and just God,
when I step into these moments and I feel like I'm inadequate or I come off
from the platform giving a message and I just feel like, oh, was that good?
You know, did well, you know, just, just not feeling confident about it.
It's, it's God stretching me in those moments and helping me to grow,
you know, and, and filling in the, so to speak , um,
where he's moving in in spite of me. Right. And, um,
and so that's really, if I had to boil it down,
that that's how it's those things, you know, it's, that's, that's it. I mean,
okay. Without those things, it's not possible. Well.
You've said a lot there, but I'm gonna try to pull down even more, a few,
few bullet points for those listening that I gleaned from what you just shared,
you were intentional in pouring in your team over time.
You didn't just wake up one day and go,
I'm gonna take next week to pouring my team.
Now you've been doing this for a long time and, uh,
and got honored that and prepared you and ways for you to what you did
not even know was coming, but yet you're ready for it when it came. Uh, and,
and so that, that's something I saw.
I think also you have the support of your family.
I'm gonna draw this conclusion, although you didn't actually say it.
I think it's reasonable to say you have their support because you have so many
opportunities to say yes to them.
Yes.
And that balance has brought that support from your family as much as they love
you. That don't mean they're gonna support your ministry like they do yours. Um,
right. You know,
it's not a guarantee that they're gonna automatically just love everything that
we're doing as ministers. We've gotta learn to say yes to our family life.
I love that. I drew that from what you just said.
Mm-hmm.
um, and although your humility, I mean,
your humility just comes out of, out in you, man. Um,
those of you who haven't heard Josh lead, he's incredible. He could be the guy,
but he chooses something different. He's he, you know,
that's what I've always appreciated about you.
You certainly are very strong out front, but you, uh,
have prioritized shows it to prioritize being a,
a coach and a pastor to your people. Yeah. And a, and a,
and someone who pours into them, uh, even if that means stepping aside some,
so those are things I wanted to glean from what you just said to point out to
people.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're right. And,
and it's not that I haven't seen my fair share struggles. I have. Sure. Um,
and those, and I've been through moments where I wanted to be done, you know,
I've, I was just ready to do anything else. Uh,
so for those out there who may be going through that season where you're just
feel defeated, you feel like there's no hope, um,
just know that there is,
and that just keep be faithful is what I gotta say. Just be faithful, you know,
uh, because God definitely came through, uh,
for me and I know he'll do it for you. I know he'll do it for all of us.
So it's just, it doesn't come without its trials,
you know, in tribulations. But, uh,
the great news is that God is there with us every step of the way, so.
Well, wow, man. Well,
I always enjoy these conversations.
And so I don't wanna wear you out today because I wanna get you back some time
to talk to more. Uh, and, and I also wanna say, uh,
thank you for the support you've shown to next level worship.
Uh, oh yeah.
You know, we, we love being in your church. We've been there,
we've done conferences in your church, uh, and, uh,
you've brought your team to us and, uh, you've been to Africa.
Yeah.
And, um.
And India.
Uh, yeah. well, that's more than I can say.
.
I tried to get to India, but that's another story. It wouldn't let me in,
but on a technicality of my visa, thank you very much.
But you and PG cared right on and had a great experience there. While I sat,
remember this, I had to go back to OS a OS. How say,
do you say OBA Ababa? I have you say it. Yeah. The anyway, uh,
the capital of Ethiopia and sit there in an airport and teach,
um,
via online while you're there in person with all these wonderful worship leaders
and pastors in the room in India .
And just if anyone's ever traveled overseas or to remote places,
just the fact that that was able to be possible was a miracle on and episode.
Yeah.
.
That's true.
Well, I mean, it just,
yeah. You know,
it was just incredible just to see God pull through in those moments.
Yeah. Cause I mean, I,
I didn't know what we were gonna do and they wouldn't let me in the country
because of this, you know, it's technicality. It, it was,
it was not their fault. Right. It was really my oversight, but I just didn't,
I didn't know it, I an issue, but anyway, um, and so it was like, well,
thank you. And now we've left, left Josh hanging.
He's there all by himself. Uh, as far as only a us person there and, and,
and right with PG, but you guys just rocked it. So you've been to India. You,
you, and, and you've lived to tell, you know, you've actually,
you continue to hang with us even after that fiasco,
but it turned out to actually be a blessing and God blessed it. Uh,
and you just, you know,
you Indiana have come to refocus on several occasions when we were doing it live
in person in gall. Oh, well actually fours, the smokes, uh,
guys were there and then you you're, we've had your team lead from a distance.
Even when we moved down to Pensacola.
We've held, uh, renew at our church. And how renew couple.
Times, couple times.
What was the other one? The, um.
Yeah, we do. Well, we don't do them now, but we did an intensive there with you.
Yeah. Uh, and the own reason we don't is we just got so much on our plate.
We just had to put that go for a while, but man, that's,
that's where we're really pour into and just dig into strategic planning. Yeah.
We did that with you. Yeah. So you you've tried a lot of things with us, man,
and you've been using pure praise and our other materials. So thanks.
Thanks for all that.
Oh man. Thank you for letting God use you.
And next level worship has made a huge impact.
I'm looking forward to lots of great partnerships in the future. So, so.
I'm thinking, so I'm thinking. And so just so, um, everybody knows,
these guys are actually meeting in the old Sweetwater building.
Uh that's that's, that's where they meet. This is so cool. And so yeah, if.
You're a worship, Peter, if you're a worship leader, there's,
there's no doubt that you probably you've.
Heard of Sweetwater. Yeah.
Yeah. So that's,
that's headquartered here in Fort Wayne and it's literally just a couple miles
from where I'm at now, but yeah,
this room that we're in used to be a guitar room, so oh wow.
You see the flat walls behind me. They would hang actually.
Looks so cool by the way. Yeah.
yeah. The guitars and so climate control room and, and so, um,
so.
Yeah, that's that room, man. That's a nice room dude. Nice. They set you up.
Well, let me tell you,
if you ever get a chance to visit Sweetwater is something else it's like their
new,
their newer location is like the Google of music and oh yeah.
Um, they've got, they just, they opened up last year.
I think the world's largest like music store and it's just, it's unreal.
Yeah. It's unreal. You know,
it's easy to take for granted that it's just like a Stone's throw away, but yes,
it's awesome. Yeah. Sweetwater. This was, but I.
Mean, you've got,
you've got people on your team that are that work there and I mean,
it's just a great partnership. Mm-hmm .
Yeah. Yes we do. And attend here and yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Attend there. Yeah. I remember when we first came up, um, to just, uh,
we were coming through,
we wanna record you and Indiana just talking about the resources,
the next step of worship. Remember that we, we did a video with you. Yes.
And you said, Hey, go. Yeah, you said, now this is like five years ago. Now,
I guess you said you wanna go over to sew you water and eat lunch. I'm thinking.
Eat lunch, eat.
Lunch at a, at a audio store. it did not sound appealing at all.
It's like, I mean, I didn't know. Y'all like, I know you now, but, but I, right,
right, right. All, I mean, he wants to go to eat at, at an audio,
I guess I'll go. Oh, my word. It was like, uh,
amazing and buffet and it was awesome, but I went, wow. So,
uh, I was amazing, but anyway, I'll never be, forget that. Well,
I thank you Josh for the time today, buddy.
Absolutely.
Good man. Been good. I want you to go check on your mama and, uh,
get back to all that other stuff you got going on, but.
Yeah, no, this is great. A nice, it's been a nice little, uh,
interruption to my day, even though it was planned.
Yes, it was a planned interruption, but, uh, yeah, but.
It was, it was, I'm very thankful for this time. Thank.
You so much. Oh, always, always enjoy, uh, our time.
And so we'll be in touch and, and,
and get you back on here again and hopefully get you involved with some,
some more trips in that down the road. Gotta get you back.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
All right, buddy. Well, Hey, thanks everybody for joining us for live talk.
We'll be back next week and, um, it'll be hard to talk this guy, but, uh, I,
I promise you, we got some more great guests coming up,
so we'll see you back next week for more live talk. Thanks so much.
Thanks for listening to live.
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