1 00:00:01,953 --> 00:00:04,505 Welcome to my crazy office podcast with the 2 00:00:04,505 --> 00:00:06,179 authors of working with you is killing me, 3 00:00:06,498 --> 00:00:08,572 working for you isn't working for me and 4 00:00:08,572 --> 00:00:09,265 mean girls at. 5 00:00:09,940 --> 00:00:12,882 Cassie El and Catherine Crowley. They are committed 6 00:00:12,882 --> 00:00:15,211 to creating world peace, 1 crazy office. 7 00:00:15,824 --> 00:00:17,891 And now, here are Cassie and Cassie. 8 00:00:19,576 --> 00:00:21,087 Hey, everyone. I'm Cathy El, 9 00:00:21,644 --> 00:00:23,951 and I'm Catherine Crowley and welcome to my 10 00:00:23,951 --> 00:00:24,826 crazy office. 11 00:00:26,193 --> 00:00:28,284 Today, we're going to address a challenging 12 00:00:29,137 --> 00:00:29,375 situation. 13 00:00:30,489 --> 00:00:33,009 What do you do if you are attack 14 00:00:33,368 --> 00:00:36,240 by a toxic client. Mh. We'll start with 15 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,415 a question from someone who has experienced 16 00:00:38,872 --> 00:00:42,142 just that, being attacked by a client during 17 00:00:42,142 --> 00:00:42,700 a meeting. 18 00:00:43,591 --> 00:00:45,500 We'll talk about how to recover from these 19 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:47,966 kinds of situations and how to manage the 20 00:00:47,966 --> 00:00:49,159 client going forward. 21 00:00:50,766 --> 00:00:52,121 Oh, 0, boy, 22 00:00:52,678 --> 00:00:54,909 you know, it can be so unnerving when 23 00:00:54,909 --> 00:00:56,661 a client suddenly goes on the attack. 24 00:00:57,554 --> 00:00:59,554 I hope more people will send questions like 25 00:00:59,554 --> 00:01:01,954 this to info my crazy office dot c. 26 00:01:03,234 --> 00:01:05,395 Alright. So here's a question we're answering today. 27 00:01:06,129 --> 00:01:08,761 I recently had a very disturbing encounter with 28 00:01:08,761 --> 00:01:10,915 a client that I had been working with 29 00:01:10,915 --> 00:01:11,792 for 6 months. 30 00:01:12,749 --> 00:01:14,743 We were meeting to discuss the status of 31 00:01:14,743 --> 00:01:15,801 a major project 32 00:01:16,353 --> 00:01:18,507 and I had given the client a number 33 00:01:18,507 --> 00:01:19,326 of tasks 34 00:01:19,863 --> 00:01:21,219 to complete for the meeting. 35 00:01:21,777 --> 00:01:23,792 From the beginning of the meeting, the client 36 00:01:24,010 --> 00:01:24,510 aggressively 37 00:01:24,967 --> 00:01:25,526 attacked me. 38 00:01:26,579 --> 00:01:29,295 The work we've been doing and my company. 39 00:01:30,094 --> 00:01:32,410 I hadn't done anything wrong. The client was 40 00:01:32,410 --> 00:01:34,498 at fault but they made it sound as 41 00:01:34,498 --> 00:01:36,250 if I was totally incompetent. 42 00:01:36,808 --> 00:01:38,720 Mh. I got off the call shaking. 43 00:01:39,676 --> 00:01:41,030 Now I need to go to my boss 44 00:01:41,030 --> 00:01:43,272 and explain what happened. What do I do? 45 00:01:45,971 --> 00:01:46,923 I mean, it happens. 46 00:01:47,796 --> 00:01:48,034 Yeah. 47 00:01:48,828 --> 00:01:49,328 And 48 00:01:50,594 --> 00:01:52,612 obviously, I would go to the boss with 49 00:01:53,231 --> 00:01:53,731 documentation 50 00:01:54,429 --> 00:01:54,929 showing 51 00:01:55,788 --> 00:01:57,306 what in fact you had done. 52 00:01:57,865 --> 00:01:58,365 And 53 00:01:58,917 --> 00:02:02,171 so that the... And explaining that the attack 54 00:02:02,171 --> 00:02:03,068 was not 55 00:02:03,996 --> 00:02:06,694 your fault that this client just decided to 56 00:02:06,694 --> 00:02:08,700 attack you. But make sure that you get 57 00:02:08,700 --> 00:02:10,375 a good night's sleep and that you really 58 00:02:10,375 --> 00:02:12,470 think about what you might have done wrong 59 00:02:12,608 --> 00:02:15,798 just so that you can say everything to 60 00:02:15,798 --> 00:02:16,277 your boss. 61 00:02:17,169 --> 00:02:19,709 Yeah. Lee. When this kind of stuff happens 62 00:02:19,709 --> 00:02:21,932 in a company, usually, they'll they'll say, okay. 63 00:02:22,170 --> 00:02:24,337 We're gonna get somebody I'll call the client 64 00:02:24,393 --> 00:02:25,902 or we'll get somebody else on it. 65 00:02:26,633 --> 00:02:29,260 Because, you know, what happens, clients can be 66 00:02:29,260 --> 00:02:30,216 very, very difficult, 67 00:02:31,012 --> 00:02:33,322 and you... They just can't leave you stranded. 68 00:02:33,561 --> 00:02:35,487 You know to take care of the person 69 00:02:35,487 --> 00:02:37,002 when they're so abusive. 70 00:02:37,878 --> 00:02:40,349 So that's that's my suggestion. As you get 71 00:02:40,349 --> 00:02:41,624 all your ducks in a row, go to 72 00:02:41,624 --> 00:02:42,284 your manager, 73 00:02:43,634 --> 00:02:45,971 and show that this client was being unreasonable 74 00:02:46,270 --> 00:02:47,229 and see if he'll... 75 00:02:47,948 --> 00:02:49,466 If he got somebody else to take the 76 00:02:49,466 --> 00:02:49,945 client on. 77 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:51,977 Right. And my 78 00:02:52,674 --> 00:02:55,545 my suggestion would be first to detox. 79 00:02:56,183 --> 00:02:57,060 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 80 00:02:57,699 --> 00:02:59,373 Because when you take in that kind of 81 00:02:59,373 --> 00:03:01,224 anger and that end of, 82 00:03:02,425 --> 00:03:02,905 aggression, 83 00:03:03,625 --> 00:03:05,224 it's going to leave its mark. 84 00:03:05,705 --> 00:03:07,004 Yeah. What happens 85 00:03:07,384 --> 00:03:10,273 often in ironic that very often, it's the 86 00:03:10,273 --> 00:03:11,411 most responsible 87 00:03:12,506 --> 00:03:13,703 employees, the most, 88 00:03:14,420 --> 00:03:14,920 careful 89 00:03:15,298 --> 00:03:17,451 professionals who can be attacked like this. And 90 00:03:17,451 --> 00:03:17,951 then 91 00:03:18,424 --> 00:03:20,738 feel as if somehow they must have done 92 00:03:20,738 --> 00:03:23,292 something wrong. Yeah. So I think the first 93 00:03:23,292 --> 00:03:25,606 thing is it's funny I was thinking back 94 00:03:25,606 --> 00:03:28,097 to our unhook technique from working with you 95 00:03:28,097 --> 00:03:29,536 is killing me. I think the first thing 96 00:03:29,536 --> 00:03:32,114 is you have... You literally wanna purge 97 00:03:32,732 --> 00:03:33,712 that negative 98 00:03:34,091 --> 00:03:35,310 energy from your body 99 00:03:35,705 --> 00:03:38,844 Yeah. Figured working out or kicking a shower 100 00:03:39,064 --> 00:03:39,564 or, 101 00:03:40,025 --> 00:03:42,344 I don't know, swinging a tennis racket on 102 00:03:42,344 --> 00:03:44,264 the bed and getting it off of you. 103 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:45,315 Out of you, 104 00:03:46,747 --> 00:03:49,532 because you've take... You've ingested something that's not 105 00:03:49,532 --> 00:03:50,009 healthy. 106 00:03:50,725 --> 00:03:51,043 Yeah. 107 00:03:52,014 --> 00:03:53,449 I think you're right. That's the first thing 108 00:03:53,449 --> 00:03:55,443 you really have to do. And it could 109 00:03:55,443 --> 00:03:58,155 take a couple of days. It could. Exactly. 110 00:03:58,394 --> 00:04:00,547 And in the meantime, maybe before you go 111 00:04:00,547 --> 00:04:01,185 to your boss, 112 00:04:02,078 --> 00:04:04,792 do some, you know, write an inventory what 113 00:04:04,792 --> 00:04:07,027 happened? Like, describe for yourself, 114 00:04:07,586 --> 00:04:09,662 what really went down here? How did the 115 00:04:09,662 --> 00:04:11,750 meeting start what did they say to me? 116 00:04:11,989 --> 00:04:13,104 How did I respond? 117 00:04:13,661 --> 00:04:15,812 What really was going on here? Because it... 118 00:04:15,972 --> 00:04:17,109 You say in this 119 00:04:17,485 --> 00:04:20,009 description that, in fact, the client was supposed 120 00:04:20,290 --> 00:04:21,490 complete a number of tasks, 121 00:04:21,970 --> 00:04:22,850 and they didn't. 122 00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:26,210 And very often, I think with a particular 123 00:04:26,210 --> 00:04:27,589 kind of client, the best 124 00:04:27,970 --> 00:04:30,462 defense is a good offense. So they make 125 00:04:30,462 --> 00:04:31,361 you wrong 126 00:04:31,818 --> 00:04:33,494 so that you don't have to hold them 127 00:04:33,494 --> 00:04:35,409 c for not doing their part of the 128 00:04:35,409 --> 00:04:35,887 project. 129 00:04:37,735 --> 00:04:38,053 Yeah. 130 00:04:38,849 --> 00:04:39,644 And, you know, 131 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,667 he can't really sit around and imagine that 132 00:04:42,667 --> 00:04:45,313 this client is gonna come to senses, and 133 00:04:45,313 --> 00:04:47,949 our his, and then apologize. It's probably not 134 00:04:47,949 --> 00:04:48,668 gonna happen. 135 00:04:49,147 --> 00:04:49,307 Right. 136 00:04:50,345 --> 00:04:53,232 I mean, think it's reasonable if you work 137 00:04:53,232 --> 00:04:55,464 for somebody that has somebody that can take 138 00:04:55,464 --> 00:04:58,335 this client on to say I'm I refuse 139 00:04:58,335 --> 00:05:00,341 to work with this person again. There... You 140 00:05:00,341 --> 00:05:02,670 know, they handed me irr irresponsible. It was 141 00:05:02,806 --> 00:05:05,112 unprofessional, and I will not work with this 142 00:05:05,112 --> 00:05:07,577 person again unless they're willing to apologize. But 143 00:05:07,577 --> 00:05:09,540 even then, how do you move forward with 144 00:05:09,658 --> 00:05:09,976 somebody, 145 00:05:11,165 --> 00:05:11,878 who does that. 146 00:05:13,147 --> 00:05:14,812 You know, when it's your own business, I 147 00:05:14,812 --> 00:05:16,738 think... It's different. You probably 148 00:05:17,443 --> 00:05:19,272 have to figure out how you're gonna either 149 00:05:19,272 --> 00:05:21,045 fire the client or 150 00:05:22,771 --> 00:05:24,839 you know, hopefully, they will apologize, and you 151 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,766 can move on. But I think when you 152 00:05:26,766 --> 00:05:28,759 work in a company, I know that in 153 00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:31,072 most of the companies I worked in, there's 154 00:05:31,072 --> 00:05:31,572 always, 155 00:05:32,188 --> 00:05:34,182 you know, whether it's a customer service or 156 00:05:34,182 --> 00:05:34,580 sales, 157 00:05:34,995 --> 00:05:37,475 you know, there's always somebody... Like... Not everybody's 158 00:05:37,475 --> 00:05:39,314 gonna get along with every client. It just 159 00:05:39,314 --> 00:05:40,754 does work that way or you can get 160 00:05:40,754 --> 00:05:42,454 along for a while and then try 161 00:05:43,089 --> 00:05:45,319 So they usually will shift clients. You know, 162 00:05:45,637 --> 00:05:48,128 Right. So they not... You don't have to 163 00:05:48,185 --> 00:05:49,221 deal with a wrath. 164 00:05:49,619 --> 00:05:52,341 Right. It's just not fair to to have 165 00:05:52,341 --> 00:05:55,864 to deal with that. So make sure that 166 00:05:57,352 --> 00:05:59,580 you know, your company will be behind you 167 00:05:59,580 --> 00:05:59,818 here. 168 00:06:00,629 --> 00:06:02,217 So I like this Cathy. I like this 169 00:06:02,217 --> 00:06:04,679 idea of going to your boss or whomever, 170 00:06:04,759 --> 00:06:06,268 if there's a lead on your team. 171 00:06:06,903 --> 00:06:08,436 And I think you 172 00:06:08,984 --> 00:06:10,500 you always have a great way of phrasing 173 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:12,096 things, but saying something to the effect of. 174 00:06:12,335 --> 00:06:13,931 I'm not the best person to work with 175 00:06:13,931 --> 00:06:15,686 this person or you know, 176 00:06:16,499 --> 00:06:18,174 you may... It may be better to give 177 00:06:18,174 --> 00:06:20,089 this account to someone else because I don't 178 00:06:20,089 --> 00:06:22,402 know that I can work well with this 179 00:06:22,402 --> 00:06:22,881 client. 180 00:06:23,534 --> 00:06:24,970 Is that would you say something like that? 181 00:06:25,448 --> 00:06:27,044 I think you have to say, you know, 182 00:06:27,363 --> 00:06:29,436 it I I believe it was the client's 183 00:06:29,436 --> 00:06:31,749 fault. I had sent the work to... 184 00:06:32,547 --> 00:06:33,286 Which is 185 00:06:33,679 --> 00:06:35,357 we do in our company, we send them 186 00:06:35,357 --> 00:06:37,595 to fill certain things out, and it wasn't 187 00:06:37,595 --> 00:06:39,114 done, and she took it out on me 188 00:06:39,114 --> 00:06:41,431 in a very vile vile way, and I 189 00:06:41,431 --> 00:06:42,870 don't think I can come back from that. 190 00:06:43,443 --> 00:06:45,354 Yeah. I don't know how to trust this 191 00:06:45,354 --> 00:06:47,924 person in another meaning, and they're unreasonable. 192 00:06:48,379 --> 00:06:51,188 Yeah. Their emotions are out of control. So 193 00:06:52,455 --> 00:06:54,444 I would put someone maybe stronger than me, 194 00:06:54,763 --> 00:06:57,787 someone who can actually go at her or 195 00:06:57,787 --> 00:06:59,219 him and say, 196 00:07:01,783 --> 00:07:03,858 look, you, you know, this is what happened 197 00:07:03,858 --> 00:07:05,455 here. We need you to participate more. 198 00:07:06,572 --> 00:07:08,169 But I think the tides have turned between 199 00:07:08,249 --> 00:07:10,186 She and I. I mean, that's 200 00:07:10,658 --> 00:07:12,252 Unless you feel you can go back in 201 00:07:12,252 --> 00:07:15,520 that line stand again. Right. Or maybe you 202 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,273 have a meeting with your boss and the 203 00:07:17,273 --> 00:07:17,672 client. 204 00:07:18,485 --> 00:07:21,144 And work it out. So Maybe bring some 205 00:07:21,365 --> 00:07:22,964 protection next time where your boss will take 206 00:07:22,964 --> 00:07:25,365 your side. That's another way of handling it. 207 00:07:25,845 --> 00:07:26,084 Yeah. 208 00:07:26,978 --> 00:07:29,850 But I think it's important to recognize that 209 00:07:29,850 --> 00:07:32,163 you do have options here. That the first 210 00:07:32,163 --> 00:07:34,178 thing is taking care of yourself 211 00:07:34,715 --> 00:07:36,571 and appreciating that this is 212 00:07:36,883 --> 00:07:38,417 you know, to be attacked 213 00:07:38,792 --> 00:07:40,702 is not a good thing, and you do 214 00:07:40,702 --> 00:07:42,952 need to recover from it. It's not acceptable 215 00:07:43,009 --> 00:07:45,078 just to let someone do that per s. 216 00:07:46,209 --> 00:07:48,207 And on the other hand, you really need 217 00:07:48,207 --> 00:07:50,125 to... It's funny. We always talking about this 218 00:07:50,125 --> 00:07:50,625 document 219 00:07:51,243 --> 00:07:53,401 exactly what happened, what are the facts in 220 00:07:53,401 --> 00:07:54,540 the situation 221 00:07:54,853 --> 00:07:56,994 and report those to someone who's in a 222 00:07:56,994 --> 00:07:58,740 place where they can do something about it. 223 00:07:59,295 --> 00:07:59,453 Yeah. 224 00:08:00,326 --> 00:08:02,230 I think that's really all you can do. 225 00:08:03,359 --> 00:08:03,599 So... 226 00:08:04,318 --> 00:08:06,895 And I think... And hopefully, your boss will 227 00:08:07,354 --> 00:08:09,671 understand and take action. I've seen this happen 228 00:08:09,671 --> 00:08:10,070 a lot. 229 00:08:10,724 --> 00:08:13,377 U. Where usually they'll send in someone else 230 00:08:13,515 --> 00:08:16,067 in a higher position to take take control. 231 00:08:17,024 --> 00:08:19,996 Have you ever had the experience where the 232 00:08:20,309 --> 00:08:23,734 client having been aggressive and harsh and mean 233 00:08:23,734 --> 00:08:24,770 or whatever you wanna say, 234 00:08:25,408 --> 00:08:27,262 then apologize and treats 235 00:08:28,196 --> 00:08:29,732 you know, an employee 236 00:08:30,283 --> 00:08:31,023 Not typically. 237 00:08:32,438 --> 00:08:34,993 Excuse me. I think many clients believe that 238 00:08:34,993 --> 00:08:37,627 they are allowed to be this way. Yeah. 239 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,160 Especially if they're paying for a service, they 240 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,279 want it to include their mental breakdowns. Yes. 241 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,600 I think that that can be... And now 242 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,960 what's going on in the world, I think 243 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,767 people are very volatile. So I can see 244 00:08:50,767 --> 00:08:52,840 where, you know, maybe you she'll come to 245 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,355 our senses or he will come to their 246 00:08:54,355 --> 00:08:56,189 senses, and they will apologize and say I 247 00:08:56,189 --> 00:08:57,306 might have been a little rough last time. 248 00:08:57,465 --> 00:08:59,238 I have apologize for that. Yeah. 249 00:09:00,037 --> 00:09:02,514 But I I don't know that you have 250 00:09:02,514 --> 00:09:03,473 to go back in there. 251 00:09:04,113 --> 00:09:04,352 Yes. 252 00:09:05,151 --> 00:09:06,884 I think it would send a 253 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:08,296 better message 254 00:09:08,747 --> 00:09:09,247 by 255 00:09:10,253 --> 00:09:11,204 the saying this person. 256 00:09:12,234 --> 00:09:13,582 You know, it's not gonna be working with 257 00:09:13,582 --> 00:09:14,136 you anymore. 258 00:09:15,744 --> 00:09:17,018 We're we're we're gonna have you work with 259 00:09:17,018 --> 00:09:19,169 someone else. Unless they, you know, really said, 260 00:09:19,329 --> 00:09:20,842 well, let me talk to them and Will 261 00:09:20,842 --> 00:09:22,755 apologize. You know, unless they wanna make it 262 00:09:22,755 --> 00:09:23,892 right. But 263 00:09:24,204 --> 00:09:25,342 I just... I think 264 00:09:25,719 --> 00:09:28,829 I would go into this situation saying, I 265 00:09:28,829 --> 00:09:30,583 think there may be somebody who would be 266 00:09:30,583 --> 00:09:32,837 better trained than me or somebody who 267 00:09:33,389 --> 00:09:35,320 you know, you you you hit a certain 268 00:09:35,535 --> 00:09:38,398 roadblock with certain clients. And and it happens 269 00:09:38,398 --> 00:09:39,113 to the best. 270 00:09:39,988 --> 00:09:42,476 Oh, yeah. Well, you just have to know 271 00:09:43,184 --> 00:09:45,178 and and say, I don't think it's smart 272 00:09:45,178 --> 00:09:47,253 that I go back in. This client felt 273 00:09:47,253 --> 00:09:49,407 she is client felt if they could be 274 00:09:49,407 --> 00:09:51,258 abusive to me. And that it would be 275 00:09:51,258 --> 00:09:53,495 perfectly okay. And I don't think that that's 276 00:09:53,495 --> 00:09:55,653 the right message. And I'm not sure why 277 00:09:55,653 --> 00:09:57,171 they felt that way. Right. 278 00:09:59,339 --> 00:10:01,192 I'm not going to be put in that 279 00:10:01,248 --> 00:10:04,192 situation again. Yeah. It's interesting. I just recently 280 00:10:04,192 --> 00:10:06,193 was listening to a podcast about what they 281 00:10:06,193 --> 00:10:08,256 call emotionally immature individuals. 282 00:10:08,970 --> 00:10:11,112 And how 1 of the tactics for emotionally 283 00:10:11,112 --> 00:10:13,865 in immature individuals is when they're caught 284 00:10:14,302 --> 00:10:17,243 making a mistake. They go on the attack. 285 00:10:17,561 --> 00:10:18,912 Mh. And that they... 286 00:10:19,628 --> 00:10:21,695 And what they'll do is they will say 287 00:10:21,695 --> 00:10:22,990 so many things 288 00:10:23,459 --> 00:10:26,084 you know, emotionally base things that aren't... That 289 00:10:26,084 --> 00:10:28,392 don't have fact behind them, but they'll say 290 00:10:28,392 --> 00:10:30,142 them in such a way that it's almost 291 00:10:30,142 --> 00:10:31,517 a battery of 292 00:10:31,892 --> 00:10:33,762 accusations. And no 293 00:10:34,777 --> 00:10:37,250 no real, you know, fighting back. And when 294 00:10:37,250 --> 00:10:39,563 someone's in an emotional state, they're not receptive 295 00:10:39,563 --> 00:10:42,409 to feedback anyway. So I do think that 296 00:10:42,529 --> 00:10:44,999 that this is part of... And as you 297 00:10:44,999 --> 00:10:47,149 say now, and the particular environment we're in 298 00:10:47,149 --> 00:10:49,514 that more of that behavior unfortunately is 299 00:10:49,953 --> 00:10:52,267 available than it has been in the past, 300 00:10:52,826 --> 00:10:54,900 and then it really is important to find 301 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:56,950 ways to take care of yourself in those 302 00:10:57,228 --> 00:10:59,137 situations, and don't assume that it's something you 303 00:10:59,137 --> 00:11:00,512 just have to put up with 304 00:11:01,285 --> 00:11:03,353 for your job. Right. That's right. 305 00:11:04,483 --> 00:11:06,317 So that's it for this podcast. If you 306 00:11:06,317 --> 00:11:08,550 have any further comments or thoughts on this 307 00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:08,949 topic, 308 00:11:09,427 --> 00:11:11,182 just check us out on Instagram at my 309 00:11:11,182 --> 00:11:12,856 crazy office and comment, please. 310 00:11:13,748 --> 00:11:15,738 And if you wanna subscribe to our podcast, 311 00:11:15,977 --> 00:11:19,104 go to my crazy office on our website 312 00:11:19,161 --> 00:11:20,832 and hit the subscribe button. 313 00:11:21,722 --> 00:11:22,222 Finally, 314 00:11:22,833 --> 00:11:25,555 don't forget to send your questions and stories 315 00:11:25,928 --> 00:11:29,658 to info at my crazy office dot c. 316 00:11:30,944 --> 00:11:33,171 My crazy office produced in New York City 317 00:11:33,171 --> 00:11:34,602 at K square Studios. 318 00:11:37,306 --> 00:11:38,021 Day crazy.